Reason Roundup

Religious Freedom Clashes With Public Health Enforcers

Plus: Signal will leave the U.S. market if EARN IT passes, Justin Amash blasts Michigan shutdown orders, and more...

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Attempts to forbid religious gatherings haven't gone so well in some states, where authorities have been taking restrictions on in-person church services too far and congregants have been practicing civil disobedience in response.

Take Greenville, Mississippi. Police there issued $500 fines to people attending church within their own cars because the drive-in service was after the town's curfew.

"During Thursday night service at King James Bible Baptist Church, while parishioners sat in their vehicles listening to Pastor Charles Hamilton, Greenville Police surrounded the church parking lot," reports WREG. Police also issued citations at Temple Baptist Church.

"The police started coming up and we said, 'We think we're within our rights.' So they started issuing tickets, five hundred dollars tickets," Lee Gordon, who attended the Temple Baptist car mass, told WREG. "I don't know, it may have been 20 to 30 tickets. Everybody got one. It wasn't per car. Me and my wife was in a car together and both of us got tickets."

In Kentucky, Gov. Andy Beshear announced last week that anyone attending Easter services in-person on Sunday would have to self-quarantine for 14 days thereafter, and that to ensure compliance police would be taking down churchgoers' license plate numbers. (Areas of Kentucky have also been leading the way on requiring people who violate self-quarantine orders to wear GPS ankle monitors to prove they're at home.)

Indiscriminate policies like these church crackdowns fail to take into account the safety mechanisms parishioners may be taking to protect each other from the outbreak. These unnecessarily invasive efforts also turn police into spies on religious members of their community.

"A federal judge on Saturday issued a temporary restraining order, ruling that a Louisville, Kentucky, church can hold a drive-in church Easter service—a ruling that overturned an effort by the city's mayor to stop the service," notes CNN. "The order doesn't involve in-person church services, which are already prohibited by the governor's executive order banning large gatherings."

A spokesperson for U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr tweeted Saturday that Barr "is monitoring govt regulation of religious services" and we can "expect action" from the Department of Justice next week. "While social distancing policies are appropriate during this emergency, they must be applied evenhandedly & not single out religious orgs," said Kerri Kupec.

This lines up with what CNN reports from an unnamed person at the Justice Department:

A Justice official said Barr is examining multiple instances around the country, not just the case of Louisville's, where it appears religious institutions may have been singled out in Covid-19-related public gathering restrictions.

Government can legally limit assemblies, including religious gatherings, to protect health and safety, the official said. But the government may not impose special restrictions on religious activity that do not apply to similar nonreligious activity.

If a municipality imposes fewer or no restrictions on movie theaters, restaurants, concert halls and other comparable places of assembly, it may not order houses of worship to close or limit their congregation size, according to the official.


FREE MINDS

The encrypted messaging service Signal suggests it will leave the U.S. if the EARN IT Act passes. The bill, sponsored by Sens. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) and Richard Blumenthal (D–Conn.), takes aim at the free-speech-protecting Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, and at possibly encrypted communication writ large, under the guise of (what else?) protecting children. "But the law would really create leverage for the government to ask that tech companies undermine their encryption schemes to enable law enforcement access," notes Wired's Lily Hay Newman, who brings us this news about Signal:

Signal developer Joshua Lund said in a blog post on Wednesday that Signal is not cool with that! More specifically, he noted that Signal would face insurmountable financial burdens as a result of the law and would therefore be forced to leave the US market rather than undermine its encryption to stay. Given that Signal is recommended and used across the Department of Defense, Congress, and other parts of the US government, this would be a seemingly problematic outcome for everyone.

Lund wrote in his blog post that "it would not be possible for a small nonprofit like Signal to continue to operate within the United States" if EARN IT becomes law. Read the full post here.


FREE MARKETS

Michigan dictates what stores allowed to stay open can sell. "The new regulations required Home Depot to close its paint section, flooring section and outdoor gardening center by Friday morning," reports Bridge.

[Gov. Gretchen] Whitmer's order also requires large retailers to close carpet or flooring, furniture, garden and plant nursery sections, either by blocking them, placing signs in aisles, posting prominent signs or removing goods from shelves. Bottle return sections at grocery stores must also remain closed. Starting Monday, large retailers cannot advertise products that are not groceries, medical supplies or items necessary to maintain the safety, sanitation and basic operation of residences.

On Twitter, Rep. Justin Amash (I–Mich.) said Whitmer's order "goes too far and will erode confidence in her leadership.

"Most Michigan residents recognize the challenging circumstances and are willing to make considerable sacrifices to keep themselves and others safe," wrote Amash. "But several recent measures provide marginal benefits at best, while substantially heightening frustration and resentment." His thread continues here.


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  1. …congregants have been practicing civil disobedience in response.

    Render unto Caesar that quarantine which is Caesar’s.

    1. Youre too much some mornings.

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    2. Hello.

      Happy Easter!

    3. Sorry, do you think Jesus Christ would have sit home for weeks or months? No, he would be out preaching the Gospel.

      What part of the First Amendment don’t these politicians understand? There is no COVID-19 exception in the Constitution.

      1. Jesus could bring people back from the dead, so I think he could cure Coronavirus. However, I wouldn’t bet on any present-day minister against Darwin…

  2. https://www.wsj.com/articles/heed-jimmy-carter-on-the-danger-of-mail-in-voting-11586557667

    Heed Jimmy Carter on the Danger of Mail-In Voting
    ‘Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.’

    ‘Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.” That quote isn’t from President Trump, who criticized mail-in voting this week after Wisconsin Democrats tried and failed to change an election at the last minute into an exclusively mail-in affair. It’s the conclusion of the bipartisan 2005 report of the Commission on Federal Election Reform, chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker III.

    Concerns about vote-buying have a long history in the U.S. They helped drive…

    1. It is amazing how shamelessly you guys echo the right wing talking point of the day. What’s next? Privatize the USPS?

      Very principled, totally unrelated to the GOP losing the demographics fight, of course.

      You do realize many “battle ground” states vote by mail, right? https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/voting-mail-2020-race-between-biden-and-trump/609799/

      1. The USPS ran for a long time, successfully, privatized. The government contracted out service to private individuals and carriers, who were oversighted by government appointed post master’s. It was actually predates the founding of the country and existed as such until the turn of the 20th century. But why let history get in the way of your talking points.

        1. Then again it wasn’t the USPS officially back then.

        2. Surprise surprise, Lying Jeffy shown you be the idiot he is, and runs away.

  3. So they started issuing tickets, five hundred dollars tickets…

    Police officers shouldn’t have visible erections on Easter.

    1. Eh. If they really meant business they would have impounded their cars too.

      1. Civil Asset Forfeiture!

      2. That’s next Easter.

      3. Easter Domain.

        1. Is that supposed to be a pun on eminent domain? If so, it was a real stretch.

          1. No, I think it’s a pun on the words some languages use for Sunday: dimanche, domingo, Domenica, duminica.

      4. Someone’s forgetting that folks who attend church are the same folk who show up for jury duty — and *used to* support the police.

        Methinks that there will be a whole lot more jury nullification in the near future….

        1. I suspect they will skip them on jury duty. Good people are rarely called up. Last time I never went in. I think that was for a reason.

    2. Its nice that Reason finally found something objectionable about the covid fascism. Previously they bitched about tariffs, the FDA, and spending… but destroying the economy and putting the country on house arrest got crickets.
      Of course, now they can blame cops for enforcing the rules that they so happily acquiesced to

      1. Very true. They whine about the poor “sexworkers” but real workers don’t get any respect. And they wonder why many of us won’t pay for the magazine. Way too many inconsistencies in the thought process here.

  4. My Twitter, post Easter, is full of conservatives about to abandon the cops due to this:

    Mike Cernovich
    @Cernovich
    My trust for police officers has been completely destroyed. They are giving people tickets for attending church. “Just following orders,” is what they will say as they betray their oath to the Constitution.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticalShort/status/1249019585887698945
    Video from Pastor Hamilton of King James Bible Baptist Church in Greenville, MS. Church tried the “drive-in” method of holding services & were targeted due to the Mayor issuing an order prohibiting such services. Watch as an officer tells the Pastor that his rights are suspended.

    1. https://twitter.com/divingnomad/status/1249397937500606465
      Paulette
      @divingnomad
      Replying to
      @ladd_sarah
      I’ve always been a huge supporter of police everywhere, but this disgusts me. They’re persecuting Christians, and “just following orders” is NOT a valid excuse. They’re violating civil liberties, are part of the problem, and are as corrupt as the elected officials. Remember this.

      1. welp, they had to wake up some time.

    2. Won’t last, unfortunately. Worship of law enforcement is buried deep in the modern conservative psyche.

      1. It would be great, though, if they made the realization that “omg, this is how minorities feel all the time.”

        1. So you think it would be great if they were delusional?

        2. Yeah, because “minorities” are all one group of people, and they all feel the same! And they need the federal government to come in and fix their local problems for them!

          Your racism is palpable.

          1. He clearly meant men, who are a numerical minority.

            1. Not when you factor in Jyna

          2. “Your racism is palpable”
            Yup.
            Paternalism like Chipper’s is only possible if one feels superior.

            1. “Those poor minorites here let me social signal and stan for them”

        3. LOL. Chipper with the slam for most wokest “libertarian” here.

        4. That’s a pretty shallow, if not dumb, take there.

        5. The Trump racists are showing their true colors this morning. Always hyper-vigilant against anyone expressing concern for police treatment of minorities. Never mind that you are simply acknowledging there is a problem, not proposing some statist solution.

          1. I don’t see you acknowledging that you’re delusional Chipper.

            1. You acknowledge right in your handle that you are a spaz. So, thanks for being honest about that.

              1. Oooh i touched a nerve!

                1. Nah.

              2. And you acknowledge right in your postings that you’re a white supremacist and racist. What’s your point?

                1. That made zero sense.

          2. Always hyper-vigilant against anyone expressing concern for police treatment of minorities.

            Yes, white folks being hyper-vigilant proclaiming to have concern for minorities: that’s pretty much the essence of racism and white supremacy, i.e., the ideology of Democrats and people like you.

      2. So how is that different from worship of authoritative government not-so-buried in the progressive psyche?

      3. Won’t last, unfortunately. Worship of law enforcement is buried deep in the modern conservative psyche.

        Fixed that for ya

        1. Only conservatives put blue stripe flags and blue lives matter bumper stickers on, though. You must admit the right wing loves them some cops much more.

          1. Yes, all right wingers sport those flags. God, your arguments are getting even more simplistic and overgeneralized.

      4. Won’t last, unfortunately. Worship of law enforcement is buried deep in the modern conservative psyche.

        No. Worship of the Lord goes deeper. Far deeper — and this was like firing on Fort Sumter. It won’t be forgiven.

      5. Yes, true, but many are waking up. Swat teams are just military mentality. We are the enemy is their thinking.

    3. The faux outrage from people over churchgoers trying to practice theit faith has been pretty disgusting. Read through some of the tweets Rand Paul got after posting about Kentucky. They relish the opportunity to use the state against churchgoers. Fucking disgusting.

      1. Which is why it’s not faux. They truly despise them. Partly because they’re part of a competing religion.

        1. +1 Great way to put it

        2. This is how I see it as well.

          People are scared, tired, confused, and looking for some comfort and answers on the holiest day of the year.

          Liberals are miffed because these people chose to seek that comfort and guidance from a body other than the state. The state won’t have competition, so they send out the gestapo.

          1. Progs think April 15 is the holiest day of the year (July 15 this year)

        3. “They truly despise them. Partly because they’re part of a competing religion.

          That’s how I read the WV decision, and why I don’t have any problem with the court writing the opinion it did. Sometimes an over-the-top opinion is necessary to clarify things.

        4. True enough.

          Government is now god. Witness how everyone obeys without a whimper, no matter how absurd the order. One would think the Black Plague was back.

      2. You should see the comments about it at The Hill.

        Talk about missing the point and bigger picture. Then again, ‘progressives’ aren’t capable of that. So they went all ‘muh deplorables’.

        Worse comments community ever!

        After this one of course.

      3. Yes.
        The left pretended they were about freedom when they didn’t have power, but once they got it they morphed into teenage mean girls, and immediately started attacking their religious competitors.

        White progressive political ideology has a sacral and religious function to the left. If past history is a guide, and they retain establishment control, within the next twenty years they will again begin killing people under legal sanction for holding onto traditional Christian and Jewish beliefs heresies.

        1. Yeah, just in time for my retirement!

        2. Those lefties, so much worse than conservatives in not caring about liberty, amirite?

          1. You certainly whine more.

          2. Yes. It’s hardly debateable

          3. Yes, but not just liberty.
            I truly you progressives hate humanity. That you hate everyone except the little god who appears in your mirror.

            1. I’m not a progressive, you moron.

        3. You can definitely see the Lefties willingly locking themselves away like good little Sheeple but still looking to make sure the government takes advantage of the situational hysteria to violate them some Constitutional principles.

          I plan using the Democrat internment of Japanese-Americans and compare it to all the demands and actual locking up of people trying to go to church, walk around without masks, and have weddings at their homes.

          At this point anyone who votes to put a Democrat in any political office is a anti-American tyranny loving fascist.

          1. You aren’t paying attention. There are plenty of GOP Governors doing the SAME THING.

            They are the UniParty. There is no REAL difference. The “difference” is to keep you entertained while they trample the Constitution and all your rights and liberties underfoot.

            1. The are huge differences but some Red State governors are violating the constitutional rights of their state residents.

      4. I probably could have worded it better. Maybe hyperbolic. I meant faux as in theyre all the sudden disgusted by people who want to practice faith, especially in a time of crisis when theyre probably always disgusted by religious people unless theyre of the Islamic faith. They just need to rage at people who arent hurting anyone and may not even be infected just to feel superior. People who folliw a religious faith typically band together when bad times arise, hell humans in general do.

    4. ” conservatives about to abandon the cops due to this”

      Four words: “I Told You So….”

      The backlash on this is going to be far more significant than any of these tin-horn despots can imagine. That idiot cop’s statement to the minister is going to haunt law enforcement for the next generation.

      It’s not just Trump winning the election but how many of these Dems and RINOs get thrown out of office this fall, and how much of the municipal and state admin budgets get cut. The people still do have some control over the purse strings, and tend to have long memories. And isn’t every person issued one of those $500 tickets entitled to a full trial, with full discovery? I wonder what an intrepid attorney might find, and how embarrasing it might be….

  5. Steve Scalise
    @SteveScalise
    Let’s get this straight: As millions of Americans lose their jobs and businesses, Senate Democrats are blocking critical relief for them while pushing to give money to Iran—a state sponsor of terrorism.

    Unbelievable.

    Senator Dianne Feinstein
    @SenFeinstein
    · Apr 9
    The coronavirus has hit Iran hard, with the potential for even greater spread in the region. In the interest of international security, President Trump should support Iran’s request to the IMF for emergency funds to contain this virus.

    1. Tell Iran to quit spending money on nukes, and STFU DiFi.

      1. If the United States invaded your neighboring country (Iraq) on a pack of lies, wouldn’t you be working on nukes? Hey, we don’t mess with North Korea do we? Our own meddling actions are responsible for Iranian nukes. So look inside the Beltway for the Real Problem. Not to mention that we installed the Shah as our puppet and the current regime was blow-back for our continued meddling in our country’s business. We, unlike President John Quincy Adams once said, DO go around looking for monsters to destroy. This is not the Founding Fathers’ America.

    2. Hardly unbelievable; more like inevitable.

    3. Fuck Iran….and their camels.

      1. Camels are originally American.

        1. Fuck their Bahman.

        2. Cultural appropriation! We should force them to return all of our camels to us!

        3. Chipper Morning Wood
          April.13.2020 at 10:18 am
          “Camels are originally American.”

          Lies and stupidity originated with you.

    4. Nothing stops a virus like a pallet of cash.

    5. make this into a political ad. Pound this into the public’s memory. The Dem’s held up help for Americans in order to help IRAN. Do these proggie fuckers want to lose?!

      1. Don’t worry, Snopes and Politifact will be along shortly to tell you that’s not how it happened.

        1. And if you believe them you deserve what you get.

    6. Enemies of the state.

    7. But Israel objects and so we don’t care how many die in Iran.
      We send aid to Communist China, but somehow Iran is worse.
      Israel runs our foreign policy. This just proves it.

  6. https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1249335692762767360

    “Models the state was using two weeks ago projected a need for 55,000 to 136,000 beds at the outbreak’s peak. As of Friday, Cuomo said, there were 18,569 virus patients in hospitals, a number that has increased less than 3 percent over the past two days.”

    1. So the models were wrong. And the new models are wrong as well.

      1. “They’re being updated with the latest wrong data and they’re based on our best wrong assumptions!”

    2. And BTW, Cuomo was braying for 40K ventilators for over a week. Hasn’t come even remotely close yet.

      1. Dollars to doughnuts that these politicians will never admit that they overreacted.

        1. Of course they won’t.

          When the virus turns dud, they’ll pat their own backs for having defeated nature.

          “The lock downs worked!” they’ll proclaim.

        2. Dollars to doughnuts the politicians will praise how well they did using overreacted numbers.

          Shutting down the economy saved over a million and a half lives.

    3. I love how the same people who are insisting that we need to treat “medical experts” as omnipotent sages who are never wrong about their area of expertise are now flinging the goalposts around by claiming that the models “can go one way or the other” and that “these are based on new data as it comes in.” Never mind that the previous data got memory-holed and you would only have it for comparison if you made screenshots of their charts.

      These experts remind me of false prophets who immediately being trying to explain what their prophecies “actually” meant, or pretend they never said them, when they turn out to not just be wrong, but wildly so. And its these turdbuckets whose advice we killed the economy over.

      1. IHME *still* has this listed on their website:

        Referenced in a White House press briefing as the “Chris Murray Model,” IHME’s COVID-19 projections show demand for hospital services in each state. The demand for these services is expected to exceed capacity.

        The bolded part is in the original.

        These fuckheads haven’t been right about a goddamn thing since day one, yet their projections are what led to these increasingly draconian and ham-fisted public suppression measures, which currently have no actual end in sight because they tellingly won’t provide the metrics for doing so.

        Time to start treating the Karens and the feminized men supporting this as active enemies instead of overtly risk-averse hysterics.

        1. Agreed.

          White, suburban wine moms are driving this whole deal in the public sphere. They’re the ones with the FB overlays of “Stay Home” on the pics. The ones decrying anyone who dares do something not explicitly authorized by the local tyrant in charge. The ones scolding grandma for having the temerity to go outside without a mask and gloves. The ones calling the cops for people who might be standing too close.

          Fuck these people.

        2. Time to start treating the Karens and the feminized men supporting this as active enemies instead of overtly risk-averse hysterics.

          Agreed — and I keep being reminded of the Jacksonian Democracy and the “throw out the experts” mentality of that returning now.

      2. I would say two things in defense of the experts here. First, China lied its ass off for months about this. The biggest reason the models were wrong is because they were based on fake information provided by China. I blame China not being part of the civilized world for that not the experts. Second, the models were based on the assumption that we did nothing and went on as normal. Well, we didn’t do nothing. We did a lot. So, the numbers are much lower than we thought they would be. The problem is that the lower numbers could mean the things we did saved us from disaster or they could also mean that disaster wasn’t going to happen and everything we did was unnecessary. Both possibilities result in the same data. So, I don’t think you can necessarily say their models were wrong. It is also possible the models were right but the efforts taken to stop the spread were effective. Which is true, I have no idea.

        1. Good to see John again.
          Was worried the covid got you.

          Whatever led the models to be the way they were, the technocrat caste has benefitted immensely.
          Violence is the only solution

          1. “Violence is the only solution”

            Meh. You go first.

            1. God damn do you ever stop complaining.

              1. Think you meant to post this somewhere else. No worries though.

          2. Nope it didn’t. I am very alive and well. Thank you. And I don’t know if the technocrats have benefited very much. This whole thing has caused people to turn on globalism and China in particular, which are two things near and dear to their hearts. If this is some technocratic plot, it is an awfully stupid one.

            1. We’ll see how many small businesses survive this.
              And the job market favoring labor has been flipped in an instant into one that massively favors large employers

              1. The statists love corporations that comply with all the regulations whereas smaller business people tend to challenge endless regulations.

        2. I agree. But some medical experts were too willing to accept China’s propaganda a little too easily and without skepticism.

          See Canada.

        3. While China lying its ass off was a huge problem but the Diamond Princess cruise told us everything we needed to know about how non-deadly this virus would be.

          Hysteria took over instead. A perfect opportunity for Lefties to nuke the US economy.

          COVID-19 quarantine of cruise ship may have led to more infections

          Many of the infections in the USA are due to family members being locked inside a residence together.

        4. Second, the models were based on the assumption that we did nothing and went on as normal.

          That’s not accurate. IHME’s model assumed social distancing measures from the beginning, even before they did their massive ramp-back on their “projections” last week.

        5. The problem is that as soon as we started to change behavior (washing hands, etc), they decided for us that it wouldn’t be enough because THE MODELS and went almost immediately to full lockdowns of the economy.

          Then the completely arbitrary distinction between essential and non-essential, which has no basis in the real world.

          That we do absolutely NOTHING was never a realistic probability, yet that’s what the models assumed, what the policy prescriptions were based on, and the policy has not changed. In fact, it’s only gotten more draconian to the point of sending cops to churches.

          The models were never anything but a fig leaf based on unrealistic metrics. It was Sim
          City.

          1. We need to stop repeating this narrative that’s popping up that the models assumed “NOTHING” as a policy when they made their projections. It’s simply not true.

            They assumed “social distancing” and their projections still showed hundreds of thousands dying despite these measures. When those turned out to be dramatically wrong, they reduced their “projections” for days that already passed, and then deliberately hid the data from their previous guess so it looked like the new projections had been there the whole time.

            1. It certainly was 1 of the models, and the model we had the initial “over 2 million dead Americans” number that initially pushed by the media that freaked everyone out and pushed governments towards closing down America.

              “ To understand how mitigation or suppression would play out, the Imperial College team, led by Neil Ferguson, OBE, ran a model based on three scenarios. In the first, US officials do nothing to mitigate the spread of COVID-19, schools and businesses are kept open, and the virus is allowed to move through the population.

              This would result in 81% of the US population, about 264 million people, contracting the disease. Of those, 2.2 million would die, including 4% to 8% of Americans over age 70. More important, by the second week in April, the demand for critical care beds would be 30 times greater than supply.”

              1. Which is ironic, because the Diamond Princess should have shut that projection down immediately. 3,700 crew and passengers marinating in a viral petri dish for several days, and ultimately only 715, or about 20% actually got infected, and half of those were asymptomatic. We don’t even know how many ended up in the hospital, much less needed ICU care or a vent.

  7. Because of the coronavirus, the endgame of the leftist agenda is suddenly upon us. It’s not even the “soft left” Scandinavian-style socialism that Bernie Sanders would have us believe was his newly found passion (replacing his lifelong Stalinist aspirations). No, what is happening today in America is the Maoist totalitarian leftist model that Barack Obama’s pals in the Weather Underground preached for years. “Maoism” was the centerpiece of the ideology of Obama’s “accidental neighbor,” terrorist emeritus Bill Ayers, who wrote the American communist manifesto in 1974 entitled Prairie Fire, inspired by Mao Tse-Tung’s saying, “A Single Spark Can Start a Prairie Fire.” Ayers argued, as did Mao, that an entire communist revolution and subjugation of society could be sparked by a single event. This idea rings true. Think about the Tunisian street vendor who self-immolated after receiving a citation for selling food without a permit that ignited the Arab Spring, leading to the fall of almost every Arab leader. Think of…the coronavirus. And think of what Chinese communist society looks like today:

    Government invents and dictates laws on a daily basis as it pleases

    Fines and imprisonment for disobeying

    No right to assembly

    House arrests

    No freedom of worship

    Total government control of the economy

    No freedom of movement without identity papers

    Does this sound familiar? Rather than follow the Swedish model of government response to the coronavirus, which was simply to recommend that the population take extra care, the United States followed the draconian communist Chinese example of Maoism — apparently based on the recommendations of Democrats Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx. As a result, Maoism is becoming a reality for all Americans. Leftist politicians are drooling with glee now that their collective fantasy of being elevated to leadership in a distant far-off Utopia has become a present reality. Democrat leaders are barely able to contain themselves; their authoritian nature is bursting out at the seams. Cloned characters (think de Blasio, Newsom, Northam, Garcetti, and Cuomo) are reveling in inventing new laws every day as they place new restrictions on movement and assembly while offering up threats and punishments against those who don’t cooperate. “Virus free” identify cards and big tech tracking schemes are being floated. And just like in communist China, there are no checks and balances, and our courts are conveniently closed.

    1. But the liquor stores are open!

    2. Would you say they are literal vampire potbelly goblins?

      1. Go away eunuch.

    3. And all of this under the leadership of the Most Libertarian Leader in Human History, Dear Leader. Explain, please.

      1. Don’t you know. Whenever the Trump Administration does anything they can’t defend, it’s because poor Donald is a victim of the deep state and Obama’s legacy.

        1. Just out of curiosity what exactly has the Trump administration actually done in regards to the lockdown?

      2. Or they deflect by coming up with a what about Obama or what about Biden or what about Hillary.

        1. And then you cry about how true it is.

      3. Exactly how many church services did Donald Trump cancel?

        1. Dipshit socialist doesn’t understand how federalism works, and is blaming Trump for the actions of governors.

          He’s really stupid.

    4. You may not have noticed, but there is a Republican administration in the White House.

      1. And of course the White House is local government.

      2. you may not have noticed but there is NO federal action limiting our rights to assemble and go outside. It’s all at the state level and the most draconian shutdowns are in … wait for it … heavily liberal democrat states.

        I don’t think the Rs are a whole lot better overall and they have all recently capitulated, but honestly, you really whiffed on that one.

    5. So you’re saying Trump should be throwing these left-wing governors and their supporters into woodchippers?

      1. The local population should, not T.

  8. …Rep. Justin Amash (I–Mich.) said Whitmer’s order “goes too far and will erode confidence in her leadership…”

    As long as she has the state police, she doesn’t care.

    1. Wonder if Amash is starting to realize he shouldn’t have gotten into bed with the Democrats during the impeachment.

      1. Those darn Democrats. If the Federal government were run by Republicans, we’d be living in a libertarian hog heaven.

        1. House says what?

        2. How many socks are you going to make that aren’t funny?

  9. Scott Gottlieb and Lauren Silvis say workplace COVID-19 testing must become a norm.

    If the past month has taught us anything it’s that testing is not a priority.

    1. This.

      I’m starting to think that’s purposefully so. They need to keep the CFR as high as possible for as long as possible, otherwise their command and control schemes will fall apart.

      They depend on the illusion, and widespread testing would dispel them of that illusion.

  10. The president retweeted a call to fire infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci.

    Sure. Why not.

    1. Trump is far too much a pansy to fire Fauci. He’s big on bluster but with respect to taking on Fauci he is all talk. He may whine and threaten, and send a tough tweet or two while under the covers in his room to lather his fans, but he hasn’t half the spine for confronting Fauci.

      1. In other words, you’re saying that the tweet doesn’t actually threaten to fire Fauci, that Trump is listening to the expert, and that this whole “controversy” is something you and others stoke for political gain. Thanks for admitting it.

        1. You are a fucking idiot. Trump re-tweeted a call to fire Fauci. That is clearly a threat on his part.

          Kirland is saying it’s an empty threat, in his opinion.

          1. “That is ”

            You sucked impeachment dick, your judgement about what people are “actually saying” is worthless, but your tears are nectar

      2. The Human Hemorrhoid speaks. Oh joy.

      3. “Trump is far too much a pansy to fire Fauci…”

        Asshole bigots are far too stupid to listen to.

      4. Which strangely was still enough spine to schlong your best.

        1. I knew Trump was a degenerate but to stoop so low as too stick it in Hillary; that’s just beyond the pale.

          1. Think about how much spine it took too

            1. There aren’t enough blue pills in the world to stiffen that spine.

              1. Which makes his schlonging of her even more amazing

      5. Pansy?

        Projection!

      6. So what’s his actual track record of firing people after re-tweeting calls to fire those folks?

        Maybe we should ask Comey and Sessions about that.

      7. Fauci has re-worded his statements about readiness in order to exonerate Trump from blame. So he is paying attention . Trump got what he wanted.

    2. Trump’s tweet actually responded to the first part of the tweet, but let’s focus on the part Trump didn’t comment on.

      1. As someone said the other day, it is odd that a supposed libertarian feels such a deep need to defend everything the President does. Kind of shows your true colors.

        1. As much as crying about everything any Republican does shows yours

        2. And as I said the other day, virtually nobody is reflexively defending everything the president does. That is a narrative your own TDS has processed. Most of us you accuse of doing that have stated multiple times where we disagree with Trump.

          What we continue to do is point out idiotic narratives you and Reason is pushing out of a deep hatred of Trump. Sorry you are too dumb to understand this.

        3. Maybe if you and your ilk didn’t need to lie about everything, it wouldn’t be necessary to c orrect the record constantly

  11. “From the Associated Press: ‘Libertarians debate: How to respond to coronavirus pandemic?'”

    We Koch / Reason libertarians should respond by insisting on unlimited, unrestricted immigration.

    #OpenBorders
    #(EspeciallyDuringAPandemic)

  12. “The police started coming up and we said, ‘We think we’re within our rights.’ So they started issuing tickets”

    The police “came up and issued”? So much for social distancing!

  13. Our centrally-planned economy begins to ‘work’:

    “California dairies dump milk, crops may be left to wither as coronavirus pandemic disrupts food system”
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/California-dairies-dump-milk-crops-may-be-left-15195891.php

    Yep, local oversupplies, poorly handled deliveries, lack of supporting economic inputs, all result in shortages where the good is in demand. Keep this up, and hoarding will not be the reason you can’t get TP.
    Note this is the Chronicle which is related to the facts such that they are legal marriage partners in all states: They claim this is a result of the sniffles, not the manufactured panic.

    1. Blow it out your arse, GOP scum.

      1. Oh, look!!
        Stupid fucking lefty ignoramus shows up to tell us we can’t have TP, since he’s too fucking dumb to know how markets work.
        You might think this proves how stupid lefties can be, but don’t worry, shitbag here and the asshole bigot have reservoirs of stupid that few can imagine.

        1. Nobody needs 17 varieties of TP. (Eventually, nobody needs any TP–at least any more than the government quota allows, and the occasional government factory produces and send to the government store.)

      2. Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians despite there being adequate supplies of food (which often rotted) in the 1930s. Seems your ilk are trying a repeat.

    2. Part of the reason is that restaurants and other foodservice businesses are closed and thus not buying milk products. The factory that processes milk into those little individual pats of butter for restaurant tables is closed, so the milk they would have bought gets dumped. The factories that process milk into consumer groceries are still running. The reason stores limit you to 2 gallons is because of hoarding, not short supplies

      1. All that is arm-waving and excuses; yes it’s true but irrelevant.
        There is a shortage of milk because the economy is being PLANNED.

        1. Not a shortage, or else it wouldn’t be dumped by producers, but a broken supply chain and sharply reduced demand. The closing of restaurants is the largest contributor.

      2. Except all the milk and produce that I would have bought at the restaurant, I now buy at the grocery store.

        But the restaurant supply chain isn’t being diverted to residential sales. With exceptions. Some restaurants are getting clever with resale. Others are getting blocked by government.

        1. What can be diverted is, but I’m not sure what you expect a grocery store to do with a million individual butter pats

          1. Put the equivalent of a stick of butter in a bag or a sleeve and sell them as a pre-sliced sticks of butter? Worked for bread.

          2. “What can be diverted is, but I’m not sure what you expect a grocery store to do with a million individual butter pats.”

            So you’re claiming this is all a mess because the wrong Top Men are not in charge?
            We just need to be more careful and a planned economy will work this time?
            Or are you just running at the moutth?

            1. Shut up, GOP shill. You just accept the government boot up your arsehole when it has the GOP stamp of approval. Big whoop.

              1. “Shut up, GOP shill. ”

                Or what? You’ll shoot him? It’s what you do.

              2. Oh, look!!
                Fucking lefty ignoramus returns to again prove his total ignorance regarding how markets work! Nope, not to worry, there’s plenty more stupid where that came from.
                Hey lefty scumbag, did your shipment of TP arrive from that workers’ paradise, Venezuela?

      3. What a remarkably stupid thing to say.

      4. Government shuts down business.

        Leftists (drooling): See? CAPATALAISMB FAILED!

        1. In fact, AOC noted that the other day!

          Something to the effect of ”This is what late stage capitalism brings you: 18 million out of work in the past 3 weeks.”

    3. This is the food distribution method the Soviets used to use.

      1. And the TP distribution system every fucking commie hell-hole uses every fucking time.

    4. California could lift restrictions on raw milk and allow the dairy farmers to sell directly to the public but na we can’t do that

      1. Lifting one regulation in a planned economy leads to fuck-ups somewhere else.

    5. At least one very large dairy around here (northern WI) has been dumping some or all of their milk daily. One of Evers’ executive orders was in fact the suspension of a requirement of “nutrient management plans” for milk dumping. Basically, dairy farms need to have plans approved by the DNR for how and where they dispose of their waste, mostly liquid manure; obviously, suddenly and unexpectedly having to dump tanker loads of extra waste every day for who knows how long was not part of the plan.

      The closing of schools in early/mid-March had an impact on milk demand, as schools drive a large amount of fluid milk consumption. And the dairy industry is very inflexible and susceptible to short term market trends; unlike something like grain, where you can decide to simply store your excess for months or even years (and most do) to help balance out supply and demand, and thus ensure you get maximum revenue, there are not a lot of similar options with milk. It either needs to get used for something, now, or go to waste. And while there are other similarly positioned ag products, such as fresh produce, that don’t do long term storage well, they have the advantage of a) requiring less post-farm processing, and thus have more potential marketing outlets to get them to the consumer and create demand, and b) still just being crops planted in the ground, and thus can be shifted to different crops as market conditions dictate after one growing season. Dairy farms don’t have too many options- you don’t just get lactating dairy cows on demand, growing herd size needs to be set in motion long before you see the results and thus long before you know what the market will be when that capacity comes online. And because milk is a commodity that cannot be stored (at the farm level, anyway), producers have no control over prices and no real way to increase revenue other than ever increasing supply and hoping prices average out to where they can make a few pennies a cwt on all that supply. Thus, dairy is an industry that is constantly swinging between slight oversupply and major oversupply, but rarely undersupply. That is, even in relative good times, there is probably always a certain amount of production going to waste. Really, the only other viable option for a dairy farmer to make use of their primary assets (animals and animal facilities) is to slaughter them, but that’s not very economically viable. Dairy cattle do not attract premium prices for beef (pretty much McDonald’s hamburger level stuff) and are relatively skinny and bony while still eating a ton, since they are bred for their ability to convert feed into milk, and anything converted into muscle and fat is “waste” on a dairy cow.

      I had wondered if perhaps we might see a positive impact on milk prices due to the “takeout culture” we have right now, which would seem to be tailor made for pizza places to shine, as that has been their primary model anyway. Mozzarella cheese for pizza drives an enormous amount of the demand for milk. Unfortunately, this hasn’t shown up yet.

      1. An obvious solution: mandate that parents serve at least two containers of milk per day to their kids at home, and prohibit any alternative beverages.

        For the children (and future government informers).

        1. Yep, our first 5-year plan had some flaws, but we’re bringing in some experts from Venezuela to correct those in the next plan!

      2. The worst thing about the raw milk band is (and I once supported them until I had to look this up for a client) is how easy it is to pasteurize milk in your own home. You can do it in a microwave in a couple of minutes.

      3. UP, thanks for the detailed explanation.

        Too bad more commenters here don’t supply useful info, but just throw around insults.

  14. This pandemic sucks. I was looking forward to shooting Mexicans and trading sexual favors in return for Sebastian Gorka’s Yummy Gourmet MREs and instead I’m spending it figuring out how to pay a ticket given out to by the local constable. Shouldn’t we have already reached the gangs of local vigilantes and local warlord phase of this emergency yet? Right now, we’re in the Neighbors Are Doing Karaoke on Their Front Lawn. Which sucks. Do you think I can shoot them?

    1. Shouldn’t we have already reached the gangs of local vigilantes and local warlord phase of this emergency yet?

      Fortunately, what’s left of the free market still keeps people supplied as best as possible given government restrictions.

      But I have no doubt that once people like you become sufficiently inconvenienced and your sense of entitlement gets violated, you will become violent; socialists and fascist always do.

    2. Yes, you can shoot them.
      But there will be A LOT of paperwork involved, and certain forced violation of your (anti) social distancing!

    3. Right now, we’re in the Neighbors Are Doing Karaoke on Their Front Lawn. Which sucks. Do you think I can shoot them?

      Do they pay their mortgages? Do you?

    4. American Socialist
      April.13.2020 at 10:09 am
      “This pandemic sucks…”

      Not anywhere close to what you and your pathetic brethren do, and it’s a long ways from the death toll your fave dictatorships have caused.
      A LOOOONG way, scumbag lefty thug.

  15. Let’s play a new game! Guess which far-right website published this garbage:

    “Do you think people won’t notice that liberal institutions and media outlets spent months maligning Brett Kavanaugh’s defenders as misogynistic rape apologists, only to now invoke all their arguments to defend Joe Biden & demean Tara Reade? Do you think people are that dumb?”

    Was it Breitbart? Faux News?

    Nope! It’s actually a Twitter quote from the awful Glenn Greenwald. Why did anyone ever take this guy seriously as a progressive?!

    #LibertariansForBiden

    1. Yeah, his magazine also spent time carefully documenting Brett Kavanaugh’s lies. Where were you?

      https://theintercept.com/2018/09/29/the-unbearable-dishonesty-of-brett-kavanaugh/

      1. If everyone is a sexual predator, no one is a sexual predator.

        1. Them “BRETT KAVANAUGH IS A RAPIST!!!”

          the world “ok let’s see the evidence”

          Them “HE SAID SOME THINGS PEOPLE DISGREE WITH ONE TIME THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR CLAIMS OR RAPE OR ANYTHING!!!”

          the world “go home you’re drunk”

          1. Here’s a pretty detailed article documenting the case against Brett Kavanaugh. And from OBL’s favorite writer too!

            https://theintercept.com/2018/09/29/the-unbearable-dishonesty-of-brett-kavanaugh/

            1. The world “go home you’re still drunk”

            2. Annnnd… You spammed that cryfest already its why we are laughing at you

              1. Behind all of OBL’s gaslighting bullshit isn’t there some sad sack right-wing loser just playing games? I just go with it.

                1. American Socialist
                  April.13.2020 at 1:20 pm
                  “Behind all of OBL’s gaslighting bullshit…”

                  Are fucking lefty ignoramuses like you.

            3. Did you not pay your mortgage because you were too drunk to find the check book? Or perhaps daddy didn’t give you enough money?
              Or maybe you figured since there were still checks there, they must be good?
              Or maybe you spent it all on shipments of TP from Venezuela…
              Why is is, scumbag, that you remain immature enough to not pay your mortgage?

            4. Plenty of us pointed out Brett wasn’t a great pick, but we also noticed none of those reasons made it into the press. It was all rape allegations, all the time.

              Didn’t hear much about his involvement with the Patriot Act, for example. Weird, huh?

      2. I was this comment section’s loudest voice calling to #CancelKavanaugh.

        #IBelieveDrFord
        #(ButNotTaraReade)

      3. “Where were you?”

        Laughing at your made up bullshit and eventual failure.

      4. Haha you’re so dumb it’s hilarious.

        1. I know! I don’t even know who The Establishment is like you. Is it a club? I love to dance!

          1. Maybe you should spend less time dancing and get a job so you can pay your mortgage

    2. You know it isn’t very fun to play a guessing game, if you immediately give the answer. That is how right wing racist white nationalist play.

  16. “Most Michigan residents recognize the challenging circumstances and are willing to make considerable sacrifices to keep themselves and others safe,” wrote Amash. “But several recent measures provide marginal benefits at best, while substantially heightening frustration and resentment.”

    Pot – Kettle

    1. Yeah, but he got that one right. The MI governor is being stupid.

      1. Part of her ban on garden supplies involves seeds and started vegetable plants (also American flags) seems totally sensible when food supply might be compromised to ban the sale of vegetable seeds and started plants. I didn’t realize growing a garden increased the risk of contracting a droplet transferred virus.

  17. But even after the epidemic subsides, the virus will remain a threat until there is an effective vaccine. America needs a plan to reduce that threat, and business leaders can play a big part. As employees return to work, perhaps as early as May, employers can offer screening at their place of business.

    It’d be, um, unfortunate if there is *never* an effective vaccine.

    1. I am disturbed by how many people are talking about “until there is a vaccine” lately. I thought the point of all this distancing and staying home was to give the hospitals a chance to prepare. It is absolutely insane to consider hobbling society like this until a vaccine happens. It may not even be possible or practical. I don’t think there has ever been a successful coronavirus vaccine.

      1. There has not. There are several for SARS and MERS that have been in development since those diseases appeared (2003 and 2012 respectively), but none are approved yet.

        1. They put out a fucking “vaccine” for flu strains every year, and it still doesn’t stop tens of thousands from getting hospitalized and dying from it despite the bugs having to fight through a vaccination wall. This season was the second-worst in the last 11 years.

          If these people think a vaccine is going to get rid of BatAIDS, they’re delusional.

      2. I’m more disturbed by the multiple ads out right now talking about this as the new normal. They are literally attempting to brain wash the masses now that they have them acting as lemmings in fear.

        1. Yeah, that is also pretty disturbing. This must not be allowed to be the “new normal”. Fucking pathetic.

          1. Fortunately, there is zero chance of this becoming the ‘new normal’ without total societal collapse.

            And if there is a total societal collapse, it will stymie the plans of ‘top men’ just as much as everyone else.

            For example, if the internet goes down you’ll see riots in the fucking streets. If cable TV goes out too, cities will burn.

            Nevermind what would happen if, god forbid, Amazon shut down tomorrow.

        2. Yep.
          The globalist corporations hand in hand with the experts and media class.
          The establishment is making a play for total victory

        3. If it is, I don’t think it’s working. Every day there is a new story about growing civil disobedience to the orders. Hell, in Germany people have begun attacking the polezei with rocks and iron bars when they have tried enforcing the social distancing rules. Let that sink in, the German people are attacking their police because the German people are pissed at the draconian measures the government has ordered.

          1. Please post a link. This is interesting.

      3. They will get a vaccine Zeb. They may have one as soon as September but no later than next spring. That said, you are right. Commanding people stay in their homes until one is developed is insane.

        1. You seem awfully sure. They may develop a vaccine by then, but will it work? As far as I know, there have been many attempts, but none successful, at crating coronavirus vaccines.

          1. Actually we use Corona virus vaccines all the time in livestock with success (60%+/- efficacy which is good enough if you vaccinate your whole herd). The question is how well this translates to humans.

            1. A big part of that is also because it is easier to get approval from the FDA for veterinary use then it is for human use. The same applies to GMOs as it does for vaccines.

      4. Yep. Plus, as noted below, not only that but the ‘new normal’ drivel.

        Justin Zoolander pushes BOTH.

        He went from being Zoolander to Denethor in one month.

        Coward. Fool.

        1. New normal my ass. Even the 1918 flu only lasted a year. This will die out as well. And when it does, people will forget it happened and go back to what they were doing. I mean does Zoolander think he is going to end the business model for movie theaters and professional sports? Because that is what making this a “new normal” would require. I would think even Canadians would rebel against canceling the NHL.

          1. They are so full of shit it’s insane. You are quite right. This will pass and people will return to more or less normal interactions.

            1. Perhaps after several years once the thousands and thousands of businesses that are currently going under get back on track enough to rehire the tens of millions of people losing their jobs.

      5. Yeah that goalpost moving was subtle but it’s there. Now we’re suddenly trying to stop anybody from getting sick ever again. No answer about how that’s supposed to work when international flights start filling up again…….

        1. Most people who get it have few or even no symptoms. At most less than 10% of the people who get it end up in the hospital. And doctors seem to be getting better every day in treating those who need to be hospitalized. A month ago anyone who ended up on a ventilator was pretty much a goner. That is no longer true today. I can’t see how this is something that we can’t learn to live with.

          1. “…I can’t see how this is something that we can’t learn to live with.”

            If your TDS is sufficiently advanced that you can blame the entire mess on Trump, why, like JFree, you just run up that PANIC!! flag and claim the world is henceforth a mess, ’cause TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!

        2. This is the scary part.

          At first it was “Hospitals need time to prepare!” Now it’s “We must close everything and everyone must stay home until we have a cure!”

          1. ……while hospitals lay off staff.

            1. Mainly because the government has forced them to cancel elective surgeries and other measures aimed at freeing up hospital beds for the “coming wave”. Never mind that we are nowhere near being maxed out on beds, or that many so called elective surgeries actually have very real world health impacts and delaying them can adversely impact morbidity and mortality long term.

    2. Why does anyone need the right to leave their house anyway? We have the INTERNET now, you rubes! If our progressive founders had known you hicks would be so stupid as to not understand the right to assembly, et. al. only applied until there was a means of getting everything we need without leaving our houses maybe they would have spelled it out. Just like they assumed it went without saying that the right to bear arms only applied until weapons more advanced than what they had came about. THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT!!

  18. I’ve been an avid evangelist for Signal around here for a long time.

    I don’t know what fleeing the U.S. really means. If they’re saying it will no longer be available on Google Play in the U.S., that would hurt more than anything, but Signal moving its offices to the Cayman Islands, or somewhere, probably wouldn’t matter. There are plenty of offshore players in the encryption industry.

    What should also be understood is that Signal’s technology is such that not only is there no back-door but even if there were one, Signal probably couldn’t comply with a subpoena. Simply put, Signal is set up in such a way that Signal itself can’t really tell who is whom. If the government serves Signal with a warrant or a subpoena for all the communications of Joe Schmo, Signal can’t identify Joe Schmo’s from anyone else’s.

    “By design, Signal does not have a record of your contacts, social graph, conversation list, location, user avatar, user profile name, group memberships, group titles, or group avatars,” Joshua Lund, a Signal developer wrote. “The end-to-end encrypted contents of every message and voice/video call are protected by keys that are entirely inaccessible to us. In most cases now we don’t even have access to who is messaging whom”

    . . . .

    “If a country decided to apply pressure on Apple or Google to remove certain apps from their stores, switching to a different region is extremely trivial on both Android and iOS,” he continued. “Popular apps are widely mirrored across the internet. Some of them can even be downloaded directly from their official website.”

    —-Ars Technica

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/12/signal-to-australia-good-luck-with-that-crypto-ban/

    Nothing has changed since. If anything, Signal has become even more secure and more mainstream since. I recently read a piece where one of the lead developers at Signal was on a flight sitting next to some older guy who couldn’t figure out how to put his phone in airplane mode. He looks at the guy’s phone and the first thing he sees is a Signal icon on the guy’s desktop. Signal was relatively underground two years ago. Nowadays, it’s being used by people who don’t know how to put their phones in airplane mode–because it’s been made so easy to use, it’s easier and more convenient than bigger, better known replacements for messaging.

    1. Anyway, I doubt they’ll be able to stop us from using Signal with a silly law, but I have doubts about them being able to get the rest of Congress and the White House to sign on because it’s my understanding that Signal is one of the preferred apps used by House members, Senators, and officials at the White House–not just for government business but for personal communication. They use it because they’re worried about being hacked, of course, but they also use it defy leaks to the press–you can set Signal up so that your message disappears after the message was read.

      Maybe the House, the Senate, and the White House will ban a technology they all use and rely on in their daily lives to communicate with their staff, spouses, children, and mistresses, but you can color me skeptical.

      1. They have no trouble banning you from using it.

        1. I don’t think they have the balls to prosecute people for downloading software. Did you see that Cody Wilson released his gun plans for 3D printers again a couple of weeks ago? I believe he did it on First Amendment grounds. If Cody Wilson can get away with letting people download the plans so they can 3D print their own AR-15 receiver on First Amendment grounds, I have a hard time believing that the feds will get away with banning a communication platform.

          And even if they did, I don’t know how they’d know any particular person was using it.

          1. It will be an add on charge after they search your phone.

            1. How do they decrypt my phone?

              On what grounds are they searching my phone?

              Do you have a warrant?

              What was your probable cause?

              Am I under arrest because if I am, I’d like to speak with an attorney.

              I’m not sure it’s possible for one thing to be against everything in the Constitution, but as much as something can be in opposition to the Constitution, arresting people for possessing the means to communicate on suspicion of communicating without the proper paperwork is probably more unconstitutional in more ways than anything else.

    2. If they’re saying it will no longer be available on Google Play in the U.S., that would hurt more than anything,

      This is exactly what that means and it would result in effectively killing the product in the US market.

  19. “Take Greenville, Mississippi. Police there issued $500 fines to people attending church within their own cars because the drive-in service was after the town’s curfew.”

    So that one wasn’t specifically discriminating against a religion, it was just for fun “Haha! Let’s go enforce the curfew on some old people listening to the radio!”

  20. Most Michigan residents recognize the challenging circumstances and are willing to make considerable sacrifices to keep themselves and others safe,” wrote Amash. “But several recent measures provide marginal benefits at best, while substantially heightening frustration and resentment.

    Sounds reasonable. But Amash has said very mean things about Dear Leader too so he’s definitely an enemy of freedom and liberty everywhere.

    1. “has said very mean things about Dear Leader”

      He said mean things about Xi Jinping? But he does business in China that doesn’t make sense.

    2. Or he supported an expanded view of the IC community to go after someone he didn’t like. He didn’t say a word about the IC overreach even after Horowitz. He supported the twisting of laws to no longer represent a firm understanding on his support of impeachment over vague corruption.

      But you go with your common ignorance.

    3. Actually, Amash said critical things about Dear Leader in a decorous manner, and Dear Leader made childish, petty remarks about Amash.

      1. Wait, you’re the second one to claim Amash said bad things about Xi Jinping and now we find out Xi retaliated?

        1. Dear Leader is Trump, you idiot.

          1. AHAHAAHAHAH HE DOESNT GET IT AHHHAAHAHHAHA

          2. “Dear Leader is Trump, you idiot.”

            You’re a lefty simpleton. Fuck off and die.

          3. If you have to explain it, it isn’t a very good joke. Just thought I’d point that out.

  21. Starting Monday, large retailers cannot advertise products that are not groceries, medical supplies or items necessary

    Emphasis added. “Starting Tuesday, the expression ‘Fuck you!’ is banned.”

    1. What about small retailers?

      1. “We must close the small-retailer loophole!”

  22. Re ticketing Easter attendees for being at a ‘drive in’ service: Could our elected leaders possibly be more obtuse? Without getting into the 1A issues (they are legion), do you think maybe they could exercise some common fucking sense? A LEO drives up, sees a bunch of cars parked 6′ away from each other, windows rolled up. And writes tickets? What a dumbass LEO.

    1. Who are you kidding? Christians love persecution. They worship it.

      1. No we don’t. We do point out that persecution has happened in the past and will happen again. But to be faithful involves not giving into the persecution. Thank you for proving us right.

    2. On the other hand, this police stupidity happened in one or two towns, and then got widely reported.

      1. So, same proportion as COVID deaths to the rest of the population?

      2. There have been reports of people being arrested in multiple states. There are more and more stories every day. Additionally, we are seeing new restrictions every day, most of which make absolutely zero sense from a epidemiological view.

  23. More bad economic news.

    Reason.com’s benefactor Charles Koch has lost almost $10 billion this year.

    Mr. Koch’s businesses depend on the free movement of highly skilled doctors and engineers across the US / Mexico border. As long as we have a President who believes in “border security” — which is racist code for concentration camps — the richest people in the country will not prosper the way they deserve to.

    #VoteBidenToHelpBillionaires

  24. Just for the record . . .

    “Without any fanfare, the Senate Sergeant at Arms recently told Senate staffers that Signal, widely considered by security researchers and experts to be the most secure encrypted messaging app, has been approved for use.”

    —-ZDNet, May 16, 2017

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/in-encryption-push-senate-approves-signal-for-encrypted-messaging/

    Three years ago is ancient history. They’ve been using it for a long, long time.

  25. “On Twitter, Rep. Justin Amash (I–Mich.) said Whitmer’s order “goes too far and will erode confidence in her leadership.

    Daily reporting on Amash’s twitter feed symbolizes the current magazine.

    1. He’s so dreamy!

    2. That and covering CNN.

  26. Scott Gottlieb and Lauren Silvis say workplace COVID-19 testing must become a norm.

    That’s easy to say but as long as the CDC and FDA have their way it won’t happen. Can’t have the private sector showing them up.

  27. “Religious Freedom Clashes With Public Health Enforcers”

    Uh, no.
    Religious Freedom Clashes With “Proclamations from fascist politicians”

  28. Is it me, or are all those cops harassing churches (including ones not mentioned in the story) all from the South? As in Trumps own people? (Yeah, I know, Trump is a damned Yankee, but the South luvs him nuntheless).

    Is it because it’s the South who insists you have to gather together no matter what? That the North and West are content with online Zoom/Google/Webex services? Or is the South just being more dickish about shelter in place than the North and West?

    I mean, okay sure, Florida megachurches got to be megachurching, because it’s in the Bible or something, but the churches in this story are tiny churches with around fifty people attending yesterday.

    p.s. I’m in one of the most liberal counties my California (also one of the largest) and we don’t need to carry papers around when we travel. My friend who lives in a red county in the same state (yes, most counties here are red) has to carry papers from his employer authorizing him to travel. Crazy.

    1. The fact that youa sked “As in Trumps own people? ” shows you’re an idiot with no actual understanding of reality.

      1. No no, fully 100% of “the south” supports Trump.

    2. You have to carry papers to travel in some localities in California? That’s the most Soviet thing I’ve ever heard.

      Also, there are red areas in California? I’m Canadian and I’ve never been, but my impression of the state was that everyone was either Champagne Socialists or impoverished Blacks and Mexicans.

      1. Central California (The Big Valley) and Orange County on down to San Diego are all conservative. The Orange County-to-San Diego corridor is the home of the John Birch Society, Ronald Reagan, and Richard Nixon.

        1. And arguably the birthplace of Christian conservatism.

        2. “The Orange County-to-San Diego corridor is the home of the John Birch Society, Ronald Reagan, and Richard Nixon.”

          Well you sad fucking pedophile, you might want to look at a map that isn’t from 1982. Because then you wouldn’t be completely wrong about the demographics of California today.

          https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-political-geography/

          Oh wow that whole area is blue as fuck. You sure look fucking stupid again screech.

          1. That’s only after the Ballot Harvesting in 2018

            1. Plus, all the fleeing Republican voters trying to escape rising crime rates and poo on the streets.

              Census 2020 will reset a bunch of those House districts as California will be losing a few seats and giving them to Red states.

    3. Things is, you won’t name the county because then we’ll show you that you do in fact need papers. Which you know already because your governor told you that.

      No no lie and say it’s for privacy.

    4. I’m in one of the most liberal counties my California (also one of the largest) and we don’t need to carry papers around when we travel.

      In CO we have to have a “carry letter” stating that we’re “essential personnel” and our work badge. I’d be shocked if it wasn’t the same thing state wide in CA. Maybe you just weren’t told about it? That way if you do get pulled over and don’t have your papers they can be sure to fine you?

      Also, as much as the “papers, please” bullshit sucks, and it’s fucking fascistic as all hell, at least the cops here aren’t pulling people over just because they dared to leave their house – you have to have been doing something else like speeding first, then during the stop they’ll ask you for you “papers, please.” At least so far, I’m sure they’ll go full fascist eventually. Especially if they let up on the house arrest orders and then a second wave of infections hit. Naturally they’ll conclude that they didn’t authoritarian hard enough the first time.

      1. In CO we have to have a “carry letter” stating that we’re “essential personnel” and our work badge.

        We do? Who is “we”? I have not heard of this as a resident of CO.

        1. My wife and I both work for aerospace/ defense contractors and we have copies of a memo from the DoD as well as letters from our managers stating that we’re “essential personnel” due to national security (even though we can both do ~95% of our work from home). But maybe that only applies to people who work for defense contractors. I assumed that other “essential” people in other industries would have something similar in case they got pulled over but perhaps I was incorrect about it being a state level requirement. The directive has to be coming from somewhere and I assumed it was the state but maybe it’s actually from the feds (DoD) for us.

          1. Ah that makes sense.

          2. Ken Freedman and the rest of the skeleton crew at WFMU have such papers from DHS.

    1. That article is really about New York City but they’re pretending the rest of the country is equally rat-infested.

      1. and New Orleans

        two of the filthiest cities in the first world do not represent the whole country

        1. Doesn’t San Francisco’s streets run brown with hobo poo, too?

          1. True, maybe some places are too filthy even for rats

        2. New Orleans is filthy, but it’s a great place with great people.
          And if you drink enough, the filth isn’t too noticeable

          1. I agree. My brother lives there with his family and the rest of us are in and around the midwest, so we love visiting them during the holidays

            1. It’s very convenient actually because he can tell us which restaurants to avoid

      2. I know…. I just find it rather amusing. Sideline: typically, according to research in NYC, the rats (and even cats) generally avoid conflict. But that was when there was lots of garbage available for everyone. All bets are off now.

        1. Fuck off Drake.

  29. This is the phase in the pandemic where we start to see the true worth and quality of leadership.

    Not impressive, eh?

    Maybe they’re Made in China. Cheap quality.

  30. “Until recently, telemedicine seemed like one of those technological promises that was always in the future,” writes former Reason editor Virginia Postrel. “While it sounded good in theory, it confronted economic barriers, regulatory hurdles and resistance from doctors and patients. Covid-19 has radically changed the environment.”

    I’ve used telemedicine to get various prescriptions. One of the things it shows is how absurd it is that you need to get permission from a doctor to get medications.

    . . . especially when we’re talking about medications for chronic conditions, why should you need to get a permission slip from a doctor to buy a medication when you already know the diagnosis, you already know the medication you need, and you already know when to stop taking it, too? It’s rent seeking, pure and simple. They want to force you to pay a doctor unnecessarily.

    This is one way we could learn from Mexico. If you go to any pharmacy in Mexico, you can buy any medication you want so long as it doesn’t have a psychoactive component. No, you can’t buy opioids without a prescription. They have a doctor at the pharmacy who may ask you a few questions if you want to buy antibiotics–to make sure you’re not trying to treat a virus with antibiotics or something. They don’t want to sell you steriods without a medical reason–it’s bad for business.

    Point being, telemedicine is a step in the right direction, but what would be even better is if people were free to buy the medications they need (and already know they need) without having to pay someone in the AMA union for a permission slip. If you have Crohn’s disease (a GI disorder), and you’ve been treating flare ups the same way for decades, there’s no good reason to go see a physician to get the medication. There is a tremendous amount of inefficiency in our system based on people having to ask permission from doctors to do things that shouldn’t require any input from an MD at all.

    1. You sir, are correct! Again.

    2. what would be even better is if people were free to buy the medications they need (and already know they need) without having to pay someone in the AMA union for a permission slip

      That’s just crazy talk. What do you think this is, a free country or something? /sarc

    3. Point being, telemedicine is a step in the right direction, but what would be even better is if people were free to buy the medications they need (and already know they need) without having to pay someone in the AMA union for a permission slip.

      Between the ACA and the pandemic, it should be clear that we aren’t going to get the telemedicine we need so much as the telemedicine we deserve.

      Going to your doctor for a prescription is burdensome and women shouldn’t have to do that to get birth control. But sudafed can be used to make speed and tylenol kills hundreds of people every year, it won’t be too burdensome to make people check in with their doctor before getting refills on those drugs.

      1. Yeah, telemedicine makes it easier to get a permission slip, but . . . that’s not really the issue, here–and, you’re right, the implications to ACA are legit. If there aren’t enough doctors to go around and the ones that are available cost too much, and insurance costs too much, to some extent, because of that, then why don’t we start deregulating away the pointless reasons why people need to go to doctors?

        Oh, and pharmaceutical companies spend a ridiculous amount of money on mass media advertising–everything from psychiatric medications to heart medications. That is an excellent indication that our physicians aren’t shutting down patients when they come in and ask for medications they don’t really need. You spend millions on advertising your pharmaceuticals to the general public because you consistently make that back and more when patients get your medication instead of your competitors’ because they asked their doctor for it by name.

        Meanwhile, generally speaking, it isn’t the doctor that’s responsible for bad prescriptions anyway. Drug interactions, counter indications, etc.–it’s the pharmacists’ responsibility to keep track of that. The doctors’ unnecessary hoops are unnecessary. At the very least, they should be able to take drugs that aren’t especially susceptible to harm or abuse and make them over the counter. Whatever harm people suffer for taking too much prescription Zantac for their heartburn is also there for people who take too much of the OTC variety. Some people will ignore the warnings and dosage restrictions, but then some people will drink tank cleaner if you tell them it has something that might be good for them in it.

        Stop treating grown ups like children.

  31. Some good news. Only 18% of Democrats would take a combination of drugs that would help cure them of Covid.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/even-hydroxychloroquine-politicized-53-gop-would-take-it-just-18-of-democrats

    1. What do the 78% who wouldn’t take it think? That it will rob them of their purity of essence? You can debate over whether the instances of it working are nothing more than anecdotal evidence. But, the fact is that it does seem to have worked in some cases and it hasn’t hurt in any cases that I am aware of. What kind of a nut do you have to be to refuse the only available treatment?

      1. nice to see you everyone thought you might have The Covid lol.

        1. No. just actually working for a living a bit. Hell I do more work from home than I do at the office. Nice to see you too.

          1. Good to see you back John. Got a little worried.

      2. Trump said it might help, so they looked up all the potential side effects (despite the fact it’s an off-patent med that’s showing success with off-label use), saw what *might* happen, and decided no one should take it.

  32. “The order doesn’t involve in-person church services, which are already prohibited by the governor’s executive order banning large gatherings.”

    If the cops wanted to find large gatherings, they should go to the hospitals. It’s easier to ticket those people, too – most of them are immobilized in bed.

    1. Idk why they haven’t made getting the wuhan disease illegal. So simple. We’re just managing the symptoms instead of treating the problem.

      1. Better yet, let’s just ban China. To paraphrase Homer Simpson, “Prohibition: the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.”

          1. Oops, you said “paraphrase.” Never mind.

            1. Who wants a bathtub mint julep?

              1. Jailhouse alcohol made from a toilet anyone?

  33. It’s really sad that if you look at the replies to Amash’s tweet(s), they are almost exclusively of the “OMG WE HAVE TO DO THIS, PEOPLE AREN’T TAKING THIS SERIOUSLY, I’M SO SCARED!!!!” variety. One would assume that a libertarian-ish politician would have Twitter followers that were at least a little biased towards individual freedom. The scary part is if maybe he does- maybe THESE are the people among us who consider themselves freedom loving…

    1. twitter has been getting more hysterical lately (as if that was possible) but I think normal people who aren’t on social media 24/7 are still relatively sane

      1. Reading Reason’s comment section (certainly not most of the articles!) and Alex Berenson’s Twitter feed (I’m not on Twitter, though I have considered making an account just to show my support) are the only things that give me any hope of sane people remaining in this world. And talking with one coworker (actually I’m his boss, but I don’t think of it that way) who has kept his head fully on his shoulders. I got rid of my Facebook account when this was first starting. I could see where things were going and knew I was going to be losing a lot of respect for a lot of people, plus was probably not going to have many friends left soon anyway.

        1. My wife and sister-in-law are ardent Democratic voters, and they’ve avoided getting caught up in the doomer hysteria thanks to me pointing out the projections, the actual numbers on things like nursing home mortality rates and those with underlying medical conditions, and the not-so-subtle media manipulation on stories, such as the highlighting of marginal cases for maximum scare effect.

          These people can only avoid reality for so long. Keep citing the data and their assumptions, drill down as much as you can on the reports, and you will get through to at least a few. When Boss Hogg and Roscoe P. Coltrane start acting like petty assholes and say that everyone should behave as if they are on house arrest, the more it’s going to piss people off.

          I’m sticking by my prediction that they have two months to get shit going again, or there’s going to be an increase in civil unrest. I have a little over a month to go.

          1. Georgia doesnt really have the state lockdown hysteria going on so many Georgians are going about almost normal routines. The people that are scared shitless, I just try to remind them to look up JHU Sick Map and actual numbers coming from death rates, etc to calm them down.

            It’s making an effect. Some friends who were cooped up for 3 weeks finally went to church on Easter.

    2. I would assume Amash’s followers are all college chicks I don’t see his appeal to other demographics.

      1. Amash’s demographic is solely Never-Trump “libertarian” journalists. The rest of the world doesn’t even know he exists despite all his previous attention seeking behavior.

        1. college chicks and those with similar sensibilities.

  34. Governor Whitmer has also banned people from going to their second homes. Which besides the obvious reasons for being insane, Michigan homeowners principal homes are exempt from the education property tax. Which means people pay higher property taxes on property they are not allowed to go to.

    I’m not sure if anything else being done, outside of the isolated cases of ankle monitors, is more authoritarian.

    1. Its all unconstitutional and tyrannical.

      Just tell state govenrment tyrants to fuck off.

  35. >>>to ensure compliance police would be taking down churchgoers’ license plate numbers

    in Kansas they can presume you’re Driving While Infected.

  36. So, has anyone taken a look at how this might affect states like CA and IL that already are having trouble with finances? Any chance that this could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back there, or do you think that the Fed will bail all day long? Personally I’d love to see Trump tell them that they dug themselves into the hole, they can dig themselves out, but how likely is that to happen?

    1. The governor’s know that if they crater their tax base, the feds will jump in to pick up the bill. When you know that, this shit becomes a no-brainer because there’s no price to pay if you’re wrong.

  37. I saw Andrew Cuomo on the news giving the update on the latest coronavirus count and off-handedly comparing it to 9/11 which he says he thinks of as the defining tragedy of his lifetime. Typical New Yorker – I guess since the Vietnam War didn’t happen in New York it doesn’t register on his scale of tragedies. Neither have any of the other wars, famines, plagues, earthquakes, typhoons or other disasters that have killed multiples of 9/11 all over the world in his lifetime. Much worse than Trump referring to the Spanish Flu as the worst disease outbreak in history, you can figure that maybe the Black Death might just have slipped his mind or maybe he skipped school the day they covered that in history class. But about as bad as Guiliani referring to 9/11 as the worst bombing attack in history and having to be reminded that there are some people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima that might take exception to that – not to mention the people in Tokyo and Dresden. If it didn’t happen in New York, it might just as well have never happened at all.

    1. >>If it didn’t happen in New York …

      the numbers would be halved.

    2. Are there really places other than New York?

    3. Dude, you don’t even understand. Know what I saw? There are so many dead bodies in NY that they are starting to just bury them! Like seriously, just dig a hole in the ground, put the body in a box, and bury it in the hole! Sometimes there are hundreds of these bodies buried in one area, with nothing but a plaque or piece of engraved stone to mark each one! Are you going to tell me that’s normal, COVID denier??

      1. We just need to point out that that a place like NYC has about 145 deaths per day of all causes.

        Wuhanvirus is killing about 200 per day. I mean you cannot cover an extra 55 dead people a day?

        Plus, NYC KungFlu area is counting the surrounding region while normal deaths only covered NYC proper.

        The facts are getting in the way of the Narrative and Lefties hate that.

      2. Hart Island being a cemetery for unclaimed bodies is normal. This may be a shock, but dead people are buried in cemeteries.

  38. NYU scientists: Largest U.S. study of COVID-19 finds obesity the single biggest factor in New York City’s hospitalizations

    I am glad these studies are being done to finally expose the KungFlu hysteria for the fraud that it is.

    1. It took a team of NYU scientists to confirm what any rube could find out simply by reading NYC’s daily data summary.

      Yes, the vast majority of COVID deaths are old fatasses. Probably 90%, if not higher (accounting for things like asthma and suppressed immune systems).

  39. New signs suggest coronavirus was in California far earlier than anyone knew

    “This wasn’t recognized because we were having a severe flu season,” Smith said in an interview. “Symptoms are very much like the flu. If you got a mild case of COVID, you didn’t really notice. You didn’t even go to the doctor. The doctor maybe didn’t even do it because they presumed it was the flu.”

    1. This theory makes sense. It’s tough to imagine that we didn’t get the first case until late January when we had thousands of people flying back and forth from China everyday for at least 2 months after it broke out in China (particularly flights between China and CA where there is a huge Asian population).

      But from what I’ve read, the genetic analysis of the virus and it’s various mutations here in the US just doesn’t support the theory that it’s been here in any great numbers for that long, and certainly not such that much of CA already has had it and gained some level of herd immunity.

      1. I would bet that Wuhanvirus was floating around China for a few weeks in Oct/Nov 2019 and then infected Chinese travelers infected others around the World via air travel. It happens every year with that year’s Flu/Colds.

        Many Americans who travel around or used airports were probably exposed and just so happens none of those travelers had serious on-the-radar infections until Late Jan or early Feb 2020.

        IIRC asymptomatic infected persons have virus shedding going on, which would explain how many Americans were exposed and the virus spread but we didnt start getting many deaths until late February 2020.

  40. “the drive-in service was after the town’s curfew”

    Wait – these viruses are like vampires, or like the aliens in the movie who mostly come out at night?

    1. The most-at-risk elderly population is all in bed by 6pm. The curfew laws are just control for control’s sake.

      1. Plus, the cops have nothing to do but still are getting paid, so they need some new rule to harass people.

  41. JHU sick map

    Only 1,883,119 confirmed infected Worldwide. 117,569 deaths WORLDWIDE.

    2,821,149 tested in the USA. 560,891 confirmed infected in USA. 22,861 deaths.

    4% death rate where >65 year old people with pre-existing conditions really skew the numbers higher for those under 65 years old.

  42. Kentucky churchgoers ignored parking lot full of nails and police to attend Easter service

    I bet Democrats in Kentucky might just have a bad election year.

    About 50 people attended the Maryville Baptist Church on Sunday. Outside in the parking lot, two Kentucky State Police troopers placed quarantine notices on parishioners’ car windshields and wrote down their license numbers.

    The notices said: “Where people congregate unnecessarily, or fail to follow adequate social distancing practices, they are spreading COVID-19, CREATING SCENES OF AN EMERGENCY. THIS VEHICLE’S LICENSE PLATE HAS BEEN RECORDED.”

    This notice also said: “Employees of the local health department will be contacting those associated with this vehicle with self-quarantine documents, including an agreement requiring this vehicle’s occupants and anyone in the household to self-quarantine for 14 days.”

    “Failure to sign or comply with the agreement may result in further enforcement measures,” the notice read.

    I would write FUCK YOU TYRANTS on the notices with smeared cow shit on them and send them back in to the government.

    1. KY will not forget that “Uncle Andy” is the Tyrant Who Outlawed Easter.

      I don’t think that imminent civil disobedience is in the cards (unfortunately), but it does seem that this is the tipping point for what people will put up with here. The rest of the ride won’t be as easy for “Uncle Andy.”

      1. For Georgians at least, we don’t have massive lockdowns and many Georgians were wanting to voluntarily quarantine or they are going about doing activities.

        I don’t live in a tyrannical Lefty state so there is less I can do since this authoritarian bullshit is not happening in my state. I would have to travel to some Blue state like California to cause trouble and Newsome is not going to listen to me because I dont live in his dictatorship.

        Kentuckians will hopefully put the nail in Democrat political aspirations there.

      2. If that fucker keeps pushing shit like this, he’s going to be staring in the face of a recall effort. Telling people they can’t attend church even when social distancing efforts are made (who the fuck is going to catch the coof from someone else’s car?) is blatantly unconstitutional.

      3. It is starting in Germany. Germans have started attacking the police enforcing social distancing. It very well may start soon here too.

  43. 55% of Americans say they’re sporting masks in public: poll

    Good to see that most Americans are telling the government to fuck off and not wearing masks.

    1. Almost most is close to most.

      1. I was going to caveat this with the fact that these polls always forward the Narrative (like it was HER TURN) but even with the fact that even with the Narrative is still only 55%.

        The real numbers is a lot lower. I see media images all the time that shows people waiting in lines and less than half are wearing masks. 90%+ shoppers at area Targets, Krogers, and Publix are NOT wearing masks.

        1. I don’t wear a mask when I go to these places, but I’d say that 55% is about right based on what I’m seeing there.

          As of today, our daycare is now taking only children whose parents are deemed “essential workers,” and refunding parents who have direct deposit for payment. That’s going to be a massive hit on their operating budget, because based on what I’m seeing in the nanny-cams, they had maybe half of their normal kid population post-social distancing and business lockdown, but before this was implemented.

  44. Re: Greenville, Mississippi. As usual, reason.com’s one-sided reportage completely omits this easily found state directive that the town’s mayor obeyed:
    ” These two executive orders [from Greenville’s mayor] come after Governor Tate Reeves’ Shelter In Place Order and the Mississippi Department of Health guideline stating, ‘Because of recent COVID-19 cases specifically linked to church gatherings, it is vital that Mississippians not attend in-person church services at any church or other type of facility. Services, weddings, and funerals are leading to greater COVID-19 transmission’.”

    1. So what if more people are being infected with Kungflu?

      If they are scared to get a cold, then they can stay home.

      Too many pussies in the USA running things.

    2. The gatherings in question were not “in person” – the attendees were all in their vehicles. I read a few examples where multiple individuals were in one vehicle, but those cases were all people who lived under the same roof, so irrelevant.

  45. What is going on in the mind of a public official in Mississippi to think it is a good idea to hassle the Church?

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