In Dramatic Shift, Trump Tells Nation To Stay at Home Until the End of April

Plus: 13 percent of NYPD out sick, Seattle slows the spread, and more...

Trump pivots on COVID-19 containment strategy and goals. The president has a depressing new vision for defining a coronavirus job well done.

In a televised Sunday night news conference, Donald Trump did an about face from downplaying the number of possible COVID-19 deaths in America, now suggesting that 2.2 million people here could die. Considering the circumstances, he said, getting that number "down to 100,000" deaths would be "a very good job."

Trump is "reframing the crisis," tweeted CNN reporter Daniel Dale. One might also call it moving the goalposts, to cover for federal missteps and hubris in handling the virus crisis so far.

But MAGA propaganda aside, the change in Trump's rhetoric is a welcome one. Last week, Trump was promising that most of America would be back open for business as usual by Easter Sunday. Last night, Trump announced that voluntary social distancing recommendations would stay in place for the month of April.

"Nothing would be worse than declaring victory before the victory is won," Trump said. (Full remarks here.) He added that "on Tuesday, we will be finalizing these plans and providing a summary of our findings, supporting data, and strategy to the American people."

Stay tuned 'til then! And expect more reality-style rollout of U.S. COVID-19 policy, as Trump becomes enamored of the "ratings" that being a crisis-time president brings…

"President Trump is a ratings hit. Since reviving the daily White House briefing Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news, roughly the viewership of the season finale of 'The Bachelor.' Numbers are continuing to rise…

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 29, 2020

---

QUICK HITS

• COVID-19 is causing a run on jigsaw puzzles.
• A spiraling number of New York City police officers have caught the coronavirus:

Today 13% of the NYPD is out sick, 4,651 officers. Police Commissioner Dermot Shea said he expects 900 to have tested positive for coronavirus by tomorrow morning.

— Erin Durkin (@erinmdurkin) March 29, 2020

• In some good news, Seattle may be starting to see turnaround in its COVID-19 outbreak. Some observers are attributing this to early containment measures. Seattle was "home of the first known coronavirus case in the United States and the place where the virus claimed 37 of its first 50 victims," notes The New York Times. Yet "deaths are not rising as fast as they are in other states….Hospitals have so far not been overwhelmed. And preliminary statistical models provided to public officials in Washington State suggest that the spread of the virus has slowed in the Seattle area in recent days."

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

President Trump is a ratings hit.

Captive audience.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

Trump (to virus): You're fired!
Chink Virus: I don't speak English.

Ratings!

[Cynical Asshole]

Trump (to virus): You’re fired!
Chink Virus: I don’t speak English. Me no speakey Engrish.

FTFY. Might as well go full racist.

[Rufus The Monocled]

FUCKEN MONGORIANS!

[darkflame]

GI GO HOME

[uesrh]

You Can Make $6,000-$8,000 A Month Online With No Prior Experience Or Skills Required. Be Your Own Boss And Earn as much as you spent time. Thanks a lot….. Details Here

[Brandybuck]

This single tweet of his should be enough to turn even the most ardent Trumpista against him. And this during a week of the most inane tweets from him yet. In the middle of one of the biggest crisis the country has ever seen, in a position to be the most informed of anyone, the only thing on his mind is how he looks on television.

Even his core partisan base need to asking if senility is setting in, and if it's time for Pence to crack open his copy of the Twenty Fifth Amendment.

[Cynical Asshole]

This single tweet of his should be enough to turn even the most ardent Trumpista against him.

Never underestimate the power of a cult of personality.

[JesseAz]

It is weird what you TDS infected take personally. Most of us dont care about this tweet. We care about his actions. But you live in a world where words are more harmful than stones.

I'm sure you were just as angry at obama for claiming he was smarter than all his advisers and would do their jobs better. Presidents tend to be narcissistic. This shouldn't be news. All politicians are. Everyone on twitter is. You posting your views here is.

Grow the fuck up.

[Cynical Asshole]

It is weird what you TDS infected take personally.

You're making a lot of false assumptions based on one comment that wasn't even critical of Trump per-se. Where did I say anything about taking his tweet personally? I don't give 2 shits about this tweet or anything he's ever tweeted before.

My comment was directed at his cult like followers (who are similar in many ways to Obama's cult followers - and yes I found them to be insufferable cunts too). And then you prove my point by rushing in to defend your god-king about any and all perceived slights. The truth is, I like some of Trump's policies (particularly on the deregulatory front) and I disagree with others (I'm not a fan of tariffs in general) but apparently that's not good enough for people like you who insist that the god-king can do no wrong.

You're exactly the kind of brain dead cultist that I despise. You and people like you who reflexively screech and "REEEE" at anything that's even remotely critical of your chosen god are everything that's wrong with modern politics.

Grow the fuck up.

You first shithead.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I hope jesse's local burn ward isn't full of covid.

[The Glibertine Party]

hello police i'd like to report a murder

[Wearenotperfect]

The TDS is strong with you!

[loveconstitution1789]

JesseAz, the TDS around here clouds even the sock troll coding.

Twatter is public record!

[Earth Skeptic]

Almost like a viral pandemic.

[JesseAz]

Lol.

[some guy]

It's hard to tell if a tweet like this is just his ego coming out, or if he's doing it to troll people like you. Probably both. Either way, politics as entertainment is better than ever.

[Mother's lament]

"during a week of the most inane tweets"

You sound like ENB above:

"One might also call it moving the goalposts, to cover for federal missteps and hubris in handling the virus crisis so far"

Hubris and inane tweets like what? Endorsing chloroquine? The big scandal that caused two kneejerk lefty governors to issue papal writ against it.
Turns out the health agencies of notoriously MAGA countries France and Italy, have just followed Germany in ordering it prescription as treatment for coronavirus patients.
Stupid "Trumpista" Europeans, huh. Little do they know it's the same exact thing as a similar sounding fish-tank cleaner, right?
Or did you and ENB mean his hope to let people out of house arrest for Easter? What sort of stupid monster wishes for that, right.

In reality neither you, nor ENB, nor the DNC/media complex will fully explain your implications here because they're just a big pile of innuendo and assumption and implication used to assert opportunistic outrage.

[buybuydandavis]

#TrumpCure

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

"In the middle of one of the biggest crisis the country has ever seen"

God you're a hysterical retard.

[Nardz]

Yep, and he should definitely be censored

[Liberty Lover]

Bernie has a website too, you can always go there for advice.

[Commenter_XY]

As usual, the Orange Man Bad leit motif dominates everything this birdbrain writes.

[Rufus The Monocled]

But it doesn't quite have the pulsating Wagnerian crescendo.

[Rich]

"Wagner is better than he sounds."

[JesseAz]

She quoted CNN. Serious business here. Optimism is dead. Orange man bad. Everyone panic. Ignore Fauci saying 100k to 200k. Sticking with 2.2 million.

[Commenter_XY]

Let's be honest: 100K to 200K deaths is way worse than the flu.

China's lying and obfuscation (which continues today) regarding the nature of the Wuhan Coronavirus has lead to the deaths of Americans. I don't think anyone seriously debates that.

When this is over, we need to reassess our entire relationship with China. We need to isolate them, and erect a Great Wall around them until they become more transparent and truthful. Then there is the matter of American deaths by their actions. That cannot go unanswered.

[JesseAz]

Way worse? If taking that projection as accurate it is in family with a new version of the flu and only 2x bad a normal season of a bad flu. 2 years ago the flu killed 80k.

[Commenter_XY]

Yeah JesseAZ....way worse. A typical year is ~25K. Four to eight times the normal average qualifies as 'way worse'.

I would like you to consider the fact that roughly 15% of Wuhan coronavirus victims are hospitalized, with 5% requiring extensive intervention like a ventilator. That is very different, and way worse than the flu.

I am not dramatizing this, and you should not 'soft shoe' it. The data tell the story JesseAZ, and it is not a particularly good one.

[loveconstitution1789]

You need citations. You keep posting numbers without any support to prove your claim.

[Commenter_XY]

Worldometer is your friend.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Their numbers insult even the left-wing retards here.

I'm almost certain - carries the one - the death toll is way higher. Way. Like maybe tens of thousands.

[FreeRadical]

Evidently the Brits are furious with China and think that they could have low-balled their numbers by a factor of 40.

[loveconstitution1789]

The 2017-18 Influenza infected 45 million and killed 79,000.

Heart disease kills 647,000 Americans each year.
Heart disease is the leading cause of death for men, women, and people of most racial and ethnic groups in the United States

200k deaths from KungFlu are a drop in the bucket.

[some guy]

Yeah, but heart disease isn't contagious.

Also, if 200k deaths is a drop in the bucket, then you're saying the leading cause of death in the US is 3-4 drops in the bucket. That doesn't make sense.

[loveconstitution1789]

Who cares if its contagious?

Either we are freaking out because of contagion or because of death rates.

The media is trying to freak us out about everything to get rid of Trump and it is not working. Trump is doing as well as can be expected. This will backfire on Lefties like every other hairbrained attempts to get rid of Trump

[De Oppresso Liber]

The media in Italy is trying to get rid of Trump?

Goddam you are stupid.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor sock troll.

Such laughable nonsense.

[De Oppresso Liber]

The media in Iran is trying to get rid of Trump?

The media in Spain is trying to get rid of Trump?

Answer the questions, dumb fuck.

[Virologist]

I’d say there’s a good chance that the state run media in Iran are looking to give Trump a black eye. It’s Iran’s usual response. The big devil (USA or UK) is behind everything. They even blamed the USA when they had an earthquake.

[De Oppresso Liber]

So Iranian mass graves visible from space are all part of trying to give Trump a black eye? They are really committing to this hoax.

https://www.space.com/iran-coronavirus-graves-satellite-images.html

[loveconstitution1789]

Before the whole World hated Trump and wanted him gone because he was challenging their power.

Now nobody hates Trump enough to engage in a conspiracy or at least a joint effort to stop him from rocking the tyranny boat.

HAHA. unreason staff are so stupid to believe American will buy this bullshit.

Psstt... unreason. Americans have not changed their minds that the Media are a den of liars and Propagandists.

[MikeT1986]

I have to be misreading you. You cannot seriously have argued that this is a global hoax to make Trump look bad.

[buybuydandavis]

Hopefully what this does is get us more serious about the flu deaths.

Flu is one of our top ten yearly killers. Being "just like the flu" doesn't mean it's small potatoes.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

No educated, informed persons should be surprised to observe credulous culture war casualties defending Trump's incompetence. Our can't-keep-up backwaters didn't get that way by happenstance, and the Trump base relies on the depleted human residue that remains in our desolate, uneducated, bigoted rural and southern stretches after generations of bright flight.

[Commenter_XY]

Ah, the human hemorrhoid speaks. Thanks reverend, for confirming everything I ever thought of Progressives.

[Troglodyte Rex]

Rev is short for revisionist

[Mother's lament]

Chuckle

[Rufus The Monocled]

Still pales in comparison to the social decay and destruction of logic and decency progressivism has perpetuated on the West.

A flock of illiberals you're a part of.

You're an idiot.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Funny how residents of those successful, highly-educated communities you like to brag about have been trying to high-tail it to the can't-keep-up backwaters in recent weeks to escape corona-chan. Guess facing their own mortality has an effect on perceptions of hyper-dense urban cesspools.

[Earth Skeptic]

But you do know that when society collapses, maybe not this pandemic but perhaps the next time, the only survivors will be rich capitalists at their New Zealand luxury bunkers and the rubes out in those despicable backwaters, right?

[loveconstitution1789]

The city Lefties are fucking freaking out after 2 weeks. Running low on food and leaving the cities in droves.

2 FUCKING WEEKS!

Lefties in cities seemingly want America to implode yet they are the only ones really suffering. Rural folks are joking around, hitting the lakes in boats, and still working to make money.

[Commenter_XY]

Bizzare point one of my friends made. The Wuhan coronavirus seems to be hitting the Progressive bastions pretty hard. Almost like it was a 'Progressive Leftist Killer'. Bizarre, but true.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Almost like every pandemic ever spreads in cities better than on farms (although they start on farms). Almost like cities tend to be more liberal. Not really bizarre at all.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor unreason. So sad.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

#BoomerRemover.

Haha. Bye bye rev.

[wearingit]

As usual, the cultists are out to defend him.

Could it be that he really is just a steaming pile of shit? No, it must be everyone else who is wrong...

[JesseAz]

Have you ever had an objective thought in your life? You're a slightly more bearable Kirkland.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Of course he's a steaming pile of shit. But he pisses you off, so at least, like manure, he's serving a useful purpose.

[loveconstitution1789]

Like bullshit and horseshit in a field, you expect some. wearingit is just more bullshit than you expected.

[Mother's lament]

In the age of Donald Trump, the melodrama and self-pity of the elite is nearly bottomless.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

Nearly? You've seen evidence it has a bottom?

[De Oppresso Liber]

Example A: Donald Trump himself, the victim of a particularly vicious DEMOCRAT HOAX!

[R Mac]

There’s that lie again. I knew you’d come back around to it after you hoped everyone forgot it was a lie.

[Mother's lament]

Poor old DOL, thinks he has a rebuttal but instead provides an example.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Everything is so terrible and unfair.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Today 13% of the NYPD is out sick, 4,651 officers.

Crime spree!

[Rufus The Monocled]

Stop and I ain't frisking!

HE GOTS DA RONA!

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I LOL'd

[Deelerious]

Orangeman bad. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

[loveconstitution1789]

Yup. The MSM hysterically tells every American that will listen that ending the quarantine will falsely result in millions of deaths.

Trump caves to retarded government bureaucrats and the Media, then he is depressing and still the same old bad Orange man that should have been removed from office during that coup attempt.

[wearingit]

Keep it up cultist. Maybe he'll let you get down on your knees for him soon.

[Mother's lament]

"cultist"

It always fascinated me how a group who called Droney McPeaceprize the "Lightbringer" and “Felt this thrill going up the leg” as he spoke, have the nerve to call anyone a cultist.

[loveconstitution1789]

The wearingit sock troll controller has been on his/her knees sucking Hillary's dick for years now.

[Commenter_XY]

1789, as a factual matter, there is no federal quarantine. You got a beef? Take it up with your state leadership.

Now that we have much better data, we can make some initial judgments. The first among them is that the Wuhan coronavirus is considerably more lethal than ordinary influenza. And moves through the population must faster than flu. A temporary, time-bound period of self-isolation is the most reasonable response at this specific period of time.

Sit tight, stay safe, and stay healthy. This will pass in time. The fact is, we are all Americans and in this together.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

A temporary, time-bound period of self-isolation is the most reasonable response at this specific period of time.

Except that's not exactly what's happening. The truly paranoid haven't left their house or gotten near anyone in the last couple of weeks, but the parking lots of the Walmarts, Costcos, Targets, etc., certainly haven't gotten any lighter since this all started. Gas stations are still busy. The main difference is that people are mostly working from home--or not working at all--and the main service places like tourist areas and restaurants aren't hosting people.

The claim that these measures are slowing the rate of infection strike me more as circular reasoning than actual evidence that they're working. I said a couple of weeks ago that these measures have a shelf-life of about two months before people start to say "Fuck this" and demand to get back to work, whether they got their TrumpBux or not, and irrespective of the risk of getting sick. I said there are going to be re-infection spikes, because trying to limit social contact for two months isn't going to burn out the illness, which Fauci admitted yesterday.

When it ends, it won't be due to "flattening the curve" and all the other sperg-tacular talking points that the media and "I fucking love science" tards have been spreading, because ultimately, it's not going to matter. It's still going to kill mostly the elderly, people with compromised immune systems, and healthcare workers, just like it's been during every bad outbreak of a new flu-like bug, because these groups all cluster as the illness spreads. It's going to end because even Newsom and Cuomo realize they can't keep their consitutents in the SF-SD corridor and NYC, respectively, locked inside forever.

[loveconstitution1789]

Exactly. It will end when most Americans are infected and most Americans are infected already. A large portion of Americans were just asymptomatic or got over minor symptoms.

The media and Lefty states like NY, Washington, and Commifornia are extending the hsyteria.

[loveconstitution1789]

*Not necessarily infected but exposed to KungFlu would be a better way to put that.

All 3,700 passengers and crew were exposed to Wuhanvirus where only 700 were infected.

[Commenter_XY]

Red, let me answer you this way. There are certain things that are known. Here are three.
- Washing your hands reduces the likelihood of contracting KungFlu
- Social Distance is a force-multiplier to washing hands
- NOT touching your face is an additional force multiplier

I cannot speak to why some people are behaving the way they are. I mean, a lack of rationality and common sense is prevalent. Exhibits A&B are Progressive Leftists in general, and Team D in the House with their impeachment, and subsequent trial which acquitted POTUS Trump of any wrongdoing. Stupidity abounds.

The Wuhan coronavirus (ok, KungFlu is pretty funny, whoever thought of it) is a very serious problem. We can lessen the effects by contientiously practicing the 15-days to slow the spread guidelines from the CDC. That, I know.

[De Oppresso Liber]

A lot of assertions in there without any citations or even explanations. How is flattening the curve not going to save lives? With a given fixed amount of ventilators, how is allowing more people who are sick to use those ventilators due to spreading out the number of infections across time not going to help? Explain that to us step by step.

And why are you right when all the guys who study this, dedicated careers to this, have fought viral outbreaks in other parts of the world, etc. all say the opposite? Why should anyone listen to you? And if they shouldn't, then why do you bother?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

A lot of assertions in there without any citations or even explanations.

Don't blame me just because your reading comprehension sucks ass.

How is flattening the curve not going to save lives?

"Flattening the curve" is a talking point because, as people have repeatedly pointed out, we don't have an anti-body test and thus have no clue how many people have actually been infected.

With a given fixed amount of ventilators, how is allowing more people who are sick to use those ventilators due to spreading out the number of infections across time not going to help?

Interesting--that number of ventilators is never going to change (that is what "fixed" means, so don't go claiming you never said that)? Leo's on record below claiming that Trump using the DPA to manufacture more is fascist. Will we always have the same number of ventilators, or is using the DPA to make more ventilators beyond the pale? You guys need to coordinate your complaints to be a bit more consistent.

And why are you right when all the guys who study this, dedicated careers to this, have fought viral outbreaks in other parts of the world, etc. all say the opposite?

Nice appeal to authority.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Some pretty typical argumentative tactics being used here, again. Focusing on small adjectives and trying to claim the use of fallacies instead of larger points.

Appeal to authority is not inherently false, especially when taken in as part of a larger picture. If I can see bodies being loaded onto refrigerated trailers and temporary field hospitals being set up in parks, and the experts tell me to take this risk seriously, then why shouldn't I believe the experts? Tell us why we should ignore the experts, who are nearly unanimous. Just make your case.

And the number of respirators is fixed for the time being. Say all you want about manufacturing more, we all know that is going to take a while. And I used the term "fixed" to make the point simpler. Even if the amount is variable, there is quite a time delay in making new ones.

So whether the amount of ventilators is fixed or slowly growing, tell us how reducing the number of patients who need ventilators simultaneously to survive isn't going to help them? I'm serious, tell me how, step by step, giving more people infected with covid the ability to use a ventilator won't save lives.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

If I can see bodies being loaded onto refrigerated trailers

Probably because Cuomo won't let the city clear out the morgues.

and temporary field hospitals being set up in parks, and the experts tell me to take this risk seriously, then why shouldn’t I believe the experts? Tell us why we should ignore the experts, who are nearly unanimous.

The "experts" keep trying to hit a moving target.

And the number of respirators is fixed for the time being. Say all you want about manufacturing more, we all know that is going to take a while.

The number is either fixed or its not. Make up your mind. You're using the royal "we" here, apparently.

So whether the amount of ventilators is fixed or slowly growing, tell us how reducing the number of patients who need ventilators simultaneously to survive isn’t going to help them?

You seem to have fully bought into worst-case scenario hysteria.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Incidentally, various reports of COVID-19 patients are showing mortality rates of people on ventilators ranges from 66-86% or higher.

Increased ventilators or not, triage is going to happen as physicians determine who going on vents will actually help, and for whom it's simply delaying the inevitable. Even Neil Ferguson admitted in his follow-up report that many of the people dying from this would likely be dead within a year regardless of whether they caught the bug or not, due to their already severe health issues.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You still have not explained how having a better ratio of ventilators available to people who need ventilators is not going to save lives.
A whole lotta tap dancing, but no substance.

Just admit that having enough ventilators would save lives, and that slowing the spread would therefor save lives. No one is asking you to swear fealty to the communist party. You can be rational, just for a moment.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

"YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE HYPOTHETICAL I OFFERED THEREFORE YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!!"

Jesus, I realize that, living in one of the bugman urban shitholes that are getting hit by this, your doomerism is going to be in a heightened state, but demanding that I answer something that hasn't actually happened yet is a new level of lunacy even for you.

[loveconstitution1789]

Wuhan coronavirus is considerably more lethal than ordinary influenza.
Commenter_XY, March.30.2020 at 10:20 am

Your citation is missing.

Not only are less Americans confirmed infected but there are magnitudes less deaths compared to every year's Flu and Cold. 2017-18 45 million Americans infected and 79,000 deaths.

[De Oppresso Liber]

"Not only are less Americans confirmed infected..."

You are too stupid to talk to. Seriously. You don't understand the difference between a death rate and total deaths. The whole point of all this is so that less Americans end up infected. Far more would be infected if we just let this go than any flu season. Those are facts. I'm sorry Trump can't gaslight nature. This isn't going to go away because everyone decides to believe his lies, like past "crises" this admin has gone through.

Maybe you are an all-star at your weekly Bubba's Militia meetings, but around normal folks, you are borderline special. Talk less, listen more.

[Commenter_XY]

Sadly 1789, the numbers will come in for weeks.

[loveconstitution1789]

You're making claims now.

If your claim is that this COULD be more deadly, say that.

Otherwise, your claim that KungFlu is CURRENTLY more deadly than the seasonal Flu/Cold, the numbers dont support your claim, at the current time.

2017-18 Flu season infected 45 million and killed 79,000 Americans. 650,000 Americans die of heart disease every year.
Heart Disease in the United States

We have 2,880 deaths in the USA from Wuhanvirus.

KungFlu hysteria is a joke and it should be taken for the Propaganda that it is.

[Ron]

We don't have good numbers LA is now sending sick people home without testing. why? is due to lack of test or is it makes the death toll among the tested worse so that they can make the Kungflu sound worse than it is. but the problem is it makes it look like teh total has flattened when it hasn't. in reality they just don't know they are doing.

Another site has pointed out that the test is a test for all corona viruses not just Covid 19 which if true makes all the numbers useless. i wouldn't be surprised if all these pop up hospital they are making never get used

[loveconstitution1789]

If KungFlu was that bad why are medical staff only wearing M95 masks and not Level 1+ bio suits?

[Illocust]

So he did what he said he was going to do? Evaluate at the end of two weeks to see if the quarantine needed to continue? I know shocking to you, not really news to anyone outside of your bubble.

[JesseAz]

You think ENB actually listens or reads his speeches? She has CNN to inform her educated viewpoints.

[Mother's lament]

You think ENB actually listens or reads CNN? She has a Twitter feed to do her research for her and inform her opinions.

[Illocust]

That does summon up the modern journalist pretty well. Mistaking gossip on twitter for fact.

[loveconstitution1789]

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

You think ENB reads Twitter? She has one of her Johns do it for her and then write up her talking points.

[Mother's lament]

You misspelled "Boehms".

[Rich]

COVID-19 is causing a run on jigsaw puzzles.

Speaking metaphorically?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Hospitals have so far not been overwhelmed. And preliminary statistical models provided to public officials in Washington State suggest that the spread of the virus has slowed in the Seattle area in recent days.

I don't think you're technically allowed to spread optimism.

[Rich]

False hope is a HATE CRIME!!

[Earth Skeptic]

Just a subset of crimes that include any opinions or statements suggesting (1) the world is not unfair, oppressive, and going to hell, and (2) that we do not need massive government programs to save us.

[Mother's lament]

It's more heresy than a legal issue for them.

[MP]

They're all bankrupt now because all of their patients are unemployed and no one can pay the bills.

But yes, nuking the economy was worth it.

[Don't look at me!]

What happened to “Hope and Change”?

[loveconstitution1789]

There ain't no way Obama is claiming this economy now. Until Trump gets the USA back on track and then it will be the Chocolate Jesus Bull Market again.

[Rich]

Today 13% of the NYPD is out sick

And some of them are actually sick.

[Echo Chamber]

What percent were out sick on any given day pre covid?

[R Mac]

Who has time for such reporting?

[Earth Skeptic]

And how many are practicing social distancing out on their boats?

[loveconstitution1789]

The media wont give those answers because that destroys their hysterical Narrative.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Man, this DEMOCRAT HOAX is convincing. If I didn't have such irrational, undying faith in Trump, I might start to question his leadership abilities. I mean, it was tough to make amends with him calling it (whatever "it" was) a hoax, then a week and half later saying that he knew it was a global pandemic all along, but Trump has assured us that there are many good liquids for disinfecting the virus, so I'll have faith yet!

https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/disturbing-footage-shows-dead-bodies-loaded-onto-truck-outside-brooklyn-hospital/

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Speaking of gaslighting, this autistic need to keep pushing the long-debunked "hoax" claim, and snarking about a treatment Trump mentioned in a press conference that's showing real, actual results is certainly a new level of passive-aggressive bitchery from you.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I made no claim. Trump is the one who called it a hoax, then claimed a week or two later that he knew it was a pandemic long before everyone else. I'm sorry I called your cult daddy out on his blatant lying. I'm sorry that hurts you personally.

It's funny that he knew this was a pandemic before everyone else, yet took no preparations for this, other than his default: closing borders. I wonder why our doctors and nurses in the field are having to be so resourceful to make do with an under supply of life saving PPE and ventilators, when the almighty Don knew this was going to be bad "before anyone else"? Odd. Also odd he was pumping the stock market prior to the biggest single day drops seen, when he "knew before anyone else". So was he lying when he said it was a hoax and that stocks are looking cheap, or was he lying when he said he knew before anyone else?

And yes, it is a good thing that medical professionals have found out ways to re use their masks. No thanks to Trump mocking them and using them to avoid responsibility.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I made no claim. Trump is the one who called it a hoax, then claimed a week or two later that he knew it was a pandemic long before everyone else.

Seriously, stop gaslighting.

And yes, it is a good thing that medical professionals have found out ways to re use their masks. No thanks to Trump mocking them and using them to avoid responsibility.

ZING go the goalposts!

[De Oppresso Liber]

What was the original goal post and where did it move, then?

And way to side skirt all the Trump lying bits. You guy are getting so, so nimble!

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

What was the original goal post and where did it move, then?

"Trump has assured us that there are many good liquids for disinfecting the virus, so I’ll have faith yet!"

"snarking about a treatment Trump mentioned in a press conference that’s showing real, actual results is certainly a new level of passive-aggressive bitchery from you."

"oH YeaH WHaT aBouT thE MAsKs?"

Maybe you already have BatAIDS, considering this level of insanity has apparently gone so deep you can't even remember what you shitposted a couple hours earlier.

[R Mac]

Or he’s just being a dishonest piece of shit, like normal.

[De Oppresso Liber]

So you can cut out all the pedantic nitpicking and red herring slinging, just focus on this part right here: So was he lying when he said it was a hoax and that stocks are looking cheap, or was he lying when he said he knew before anyone else?

[soldiermedic76]

No he was calling the media's reaction a hoax as you have been told multiple times. And yes, he tried to keep the markets going as long as possible, that is the only responsible thing to do. He also closed travel and was widely criticized for it, that was the media reaction (and other similar incidents) that he was calling a hoax.

[R Mac]

I can explain this to DOL a million times, and he’ll just keep lying.

Why? Because he’s a liar. It’s one of the core aspects of his personality.

[soldiermedic76]

He called the reaction to it a hoax. There is a huge fucking difference.

[De Oppresso Liber]

So by your own account, whatever he meant, he meant to downplay the risk.

[soldiermedic76]

No he meant to criticize the media's response. Not downplay the virus. There is a difference but it is obviously to complex for you to grasp.

[R Mac]

Or he’s just lying.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Last week, Trump was promising that most of America would be back open for business as usual by Easter Sunday. Last night, Trump announced that voluntary social distancing recommendations would stay in place for the month of April.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

[Rich]

most of America would be back open for business as usual by Easter Sunday. Last night, Trump announced that voluntary social distancing recommendations would stay in place for the month of April.

How about a compromise? "Open for business with social distancing."

[Rufus The Monocled]

Isn't it the 'blurst of times?'

Are you illiterate?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The funny thing is that he promised nothing of the sort. He said he'd love to see it happen and that people needed to get back to work, but they were going to look at the situation when the time came and make recommendations based off of that.

What's truly hilarious is all the MMQBing that happened on his mention that chloroquine held promise as a treatment, and now the media's starting to come around on the fact that this is, in fact, a means to get people through the illness. Even Cuomo has caved in and ordered a stockpile of the medicine and its variants, because he's desperate to stave off a complete breakdown of his voter base.

[Ron]

Cuomo may have ordered the medicine but will it stay in warehouses like the 2000 ventilators he is holding until the real need comes.

[Mother's lament]

"The funny thing is that he promised nothing of the sort. He said he’d love to see it happen and that people needed to get back to work"

This.
The constant and deliberate misrepresentation by the media of Trump's tweets is strange, because they're something everyone can read. It's not like they're press conferences that can be edited and molded to fit the narrative.

I'd like to one day read a scholarly analysis of the phenomenon. I think that the underlying causes are theological.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...because they’re something everyone can read.

But they're not something everyone will read.

[Commenter_XY]

I watched a few of Cuomo's press conferences. I like how he uses PPT. He does give good statistical data. I don't particularly care for his politics, but he does a decent job.

Phailing Phil Murphy, the governor of The People's Republic of NJ OTOH, is flailing and floundering badly. He just babbles and babbles with no organization whatsoever. NJ's rollout of testing has been pretty terrible. Typical Progressive Leftist efficiency, which is to say none at all.

[DRM]

The funny thing is that he promised nothing of the sort.

This is why it's quite properly called "Trump Derangement Syndrome". Despite the vast grounds available for legitimate criticism of Trump, TDS sufferers just can't manage to keep themselves limited to reality. They can't just deal with the banal, workaday problems with Trump being a selfish, arrogant blowhard who isn't quite as smart as he imagines himself to be. Their megalomaniac self-conception demands that Trump be Evil Incarnate, rather than the bearer of the typical flaws of a typical politician, just dialed up to ten.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Police Commissioner Dermot Shea said he expects 900 to have tested positive for coronavirus by tomorrow morning.

Or else.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Trump invoked the Defense Production Act to force companies who have never made ventilators to make them.

Can we finally call him a fascist now?

[Rich]

Or a socialist?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer... Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it.

[Rich]

Right.

[JohannesDinkle]

National Socialist German Workers' Party - NSDAP. FDR was an early admirer of Fascism in Italy, the country that invented it.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

What could Trump have done differently? Well first, he could have realized that the natural response to high demand and low supply is to allow prices to rise. It even combats the dreaded "hoarding" that his administration has been decrying so vehemently. People are willing to sell their "hoarded" resources if the price of selling them outweighs their perceived value to the hoarder.

Instead Trump decided to both stop the hoarders AND artificially increase the supply at the point of a gun.

Instead of handing out $2.3T of made up money to anybody and everybody, perhaps a contract to buy ventilators, masks, and hospital beds at 5x, even 10x the market value would have had the very effect of increasing supply and decreasing hoarding. That could have been done for a fraction of $2.3T, and would have been a market based solution to increasing production.

But Trump chose the end of the gun instead of capitalism. Tragedies generally expose our principles. If you actually believe something to be true you don't often abandon that thought when SHTF. Well, SHTF and Trump abandoned capitalism, just like GWB before him.

[JesseAz]

I do have to ask... do you know how the government actually works? You seem to not know which entity creates Bills, not which one could create the contracts you advocate for.

[Sevo]

So long as Leo gets to pitch orange man bad, nothing else matters.
Leo ought to be quarantined for his TDS, but we can hope it's fatal.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I should point out that just last week I gave credit to Trump for not abandoning free market principles in the face of a crisis. He didn't call for a national quarantine, and he refused to invoke DPA when everyone on the left was telling him to do it, Mayor Cuomo in particular.

Of course Trump deserves criticism now for going back on that refusal.

[loveconstitution1789]

You will have to cite that praise. HAHA.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

https://reason.com/2020/03/25/tech-companies-werent-hoarding-masks-they-were-protecting-employees-from-wildfire-smoke/#comment-8182072

Leo Kovalensky II
March.25.2020 at 12:29 pm

I don’t claim to know what’s behind those numbers. I suspect people are more in agreement with his actions than his demeanor. I appreciate that he hasn’t really freaked out over this, like most of the governors seem to be doing. I appreciate that he has resisted nationalizing private industries. I guess in that way, I’ll admit that he has been a leader. If that’s what you meant by “presidential” then I’ll concede the point to you.

I was initially thinking about his tweets and press conferences. They’ve been pretty typical Trump. That was the basis of my initial response.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

https://reason.com/2020/03/27/massie-and-that-pesky-constitution-hold-up-bailout-bill/#comment-8185115

Leo Kovalensky II
March.27.2020 at 10:52 am

I appreciate that Trump is being realistic about how the economy can coexist with a pandemic. Of course we need to keep healthy areas of the country producing, it will only help us long-term should this get even worse...

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Well, the Senate "created" this spending bill. Apparently they don't know how government works either.

Are you honestly saying that Trump doesn't have the power of the leader of the party in control of 2/3 of the government? Of course he has the power to ask for an increased spending bill for HHS or whichever part of the administration might issue the contracts.

He, and he alone, had the power to invoke the DPA. He did it. He exposed himself for what he is. A believer in top-down control over industry instead of a believer in markets. There's a word for that, and I used it in my first post.

[Commenter_XY]

Sounds like you need to join that non-delegation lawsuit currently making its way through the circuit courts and getting to SCOTUS. BTW, I think your characterization of the very limited use by POTUS Trump of DPA is way off base.

My issue with Congress is adding all the extraneous bullshit to a bill clearly intended to address a national emergency. Seriously, 25MM for the Kennedy Center? Money for suntan regulatory review? How much other bullshit is in there. This is behavior I loathe from Congress.

[JesseAz]

2/3rds control isnt control, and he doesnt have 2/3rds. Or do you think the House and Senate are each a third and the judicial is nothing?

Likewise the president does not control the senate. I know it seemed like it for the first 2 years under obama, but even then pelosi and Reid had their own wants and implemented them in bills.

He invoked the DPA and has used it once. On GM. The company previously bailed out by Obama. Fuck them. But you seem to not recognize that the opposing party has asked him to use it much more vigorously and he hasnt.

Likewise he has finally started ordering the FDA to stand down such as forcing the FDA to allow the company on Ohio to begin mask sanitization procedures when the FDA initially demurred.

It may seem odd to you but trump is actually largely acting within the confines of his lowers, asking agencies to do the work and leaving to Congress (outside funds for a wall) the rest.

You have a very weird focus here. And seem to ignore the constitutional structure of the government.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

You have a very weird focus here.

Do you deny that the DPA is literally a fascist mandate? Yes or no?

Of course I should be focused on it. Just like when Obama bought a stake in the automotive companies. It's worth the focus of those of us who still hold free market principles dear.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

"Do you deny that the DPA is literally a fascist mandate? Yes or no?"

When used on a company that happily accepted a bailout?

Listen bro you made your case and lost. Eat the L and move on.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I was against GM taking government money. Does that obligate them to bow to the government's demands at every future point? I thought they paid back those funds to the government.

It's dumb to even think that GM can efficiently manufacture ventilators. It's another failure of central planning; let's force these companies who have no idea what they're doing to do what we tell them.

[loveconstitution1789]

GM worked out a deal to bilk the government for federal money to make ventilators. The media is calling it force but how does the federal government force a business to build something. Workers just wont build it.

The media wont say or cover that because Lefties want to use that power sometime in the future. It's what they hope anyway.

Are we forgetting how big of liars the media is? They were liars before this and they still are liars.

[Commenter_XY]

I am so pissed at GM (specifically Mary Barra and the Board of Directors). We bail them out at their gravest hour, and now when we have a national fucking emergency, they tried to stick it to us. Talk about ingrates.

[Conchfritters]

Fuck those people. Those are the same dipshits that ran Pontiac into the ground, and are doing the same with Cadillac now.

[Fats of Fury]

Mary Barra was installed by Obama when he took over the means of production of GM. She may be the end of a long line of incompetent GM CEOs.
She has no idea how to make a division profitable so she is eliminating them.
She is currently getting rid of all automobile production so that when the next oil price spike happens all that they'll have is oversized gas guzzling trucks to sell.
It may be a blessing if they can't make ventilators, there may be a massive recall eventually.

[loveconstitution1789]

It's a war. The MSM said so.

All hail the best president in US History and wartime President Donald Trump!

[Leo Kovalensky II]

You letting him off the hook and blaming the media is not surprising. I thought Trump's appeal was that he was above listening to the media?

[JesseAz]

Or are you holding him to a higher standard in order to criticize him?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

A higher standard than who?

[Troglodyte Rex]

1) Whon - objective case.

2) Chocolate Jesus.

[Troglodyte Rex]

Whom, fucking 'ronafingers

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Why shouldn't I hold him to a higher standard than Obama? Obama is a leftist. Trump claims not to be. Of course he should be held to a higher standard. To think otherwise is acknowledging that there is no difference between the parties.

[Troglodyte Rex]

The president should be held to a single standard, regardless of party affiliation.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I expect a leftist to turn to socialism/fascism when things get bad. That's why I don't vote for them. The reason I left the Republican party is because George W. Bush did the exact same thing when he was President.

And now I'm being told that I should vote for Trump because he's the alternative to leftists. And then he pulls this stunt. You're damn right that he should be held to a higher standard if he thinks he's worthy of my vote.

[Troglodyte Rex]

I never said "higher" standard, I said "a" standard.

No one is telling you for whom to cast your vote. But to make up arbitrary standards makes you look like a petulant child.

[loveconstitution1789]

Lefties are Socialist all the time. They dont require some emergency to do so.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Troglodyte Rex, the right gave up the single presidential standard when several of them voted to acquit him at impeachment while saying they believed the accusations against him. Apparently laws are for "leftists".

[Troglodyte Rex]

De Idiot Liber,

The left gave up any semblance of a standard when they acquitted a rapist yet said everyone should believe all women.

[JesseAz]

So you hold right politicians to higher standards. Got it. In order to complain.

Again... the enemy of good is perfect.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

If we can't hold them to higher standards then why would we vote for them in the first place?

[loveconstitution1789]

You would never vote for Trump.

You lost and now because of antics by Lefties, Trump is the best President in US History.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

"then why would we vote for them in the first place?"

Because they advance goals their constituents think are important.

Politics ain't beanbag, Sally.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

@LC
I voted for GWB, stupidly. I'd certainly vote for Trump over Biden or I would have over Hillary. He's better, but that's not saying much. I'll likely vote for the LP candidate, depending of course on who it is. I vowed after GWB started bombing everyone and bailing out everyone else not to vote for the lesser of two evils ever again.

If Trump were actually as "libertarianish" as you seem to want us to believe then I wouldn't have a problem voting for him. I'd vote for Rand Paul, Thomas Massie, Justin Amash, and other "libertarianish" Republicans if given the chance. I've voted for Rand in Republican primaries in the past.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor Leo. The media created this hysteria based on a fake death sentence from KungFlu and Trump does a political thing and does something.

Nothing Trump is good enough for those with TDS, you see.

If he didnt recommend another 30 day quarantine, he's pushing grandmothers off cliffs. If he RECOMMENDS another 30 day quarantine Trump is at fault for nuking the economy. If Trump locked down NY and NJ, it would be war!

Calm down and say fuck you government.

We all went boating this weekend. Tied our boats together and got shitfaced.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

This thread is about the DPA. Do you agree that he is right to invoke it?

Try to stay on topic.

[Commenter_XY]

Do you agree that he is right to invoke it?
Answer: Yes. The Congress gave him that authority.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

From where in the Constitution does he derive the authority to control what private enterprises produce?

How does Congress delegate the authority that even it doesn't have?

Please say interstate commerce. I need a good laugh.

[loveconstitution1789]

Interstate commerce is a regulatory tool to control what private business produces. "Control" has varying degrees.

The Commerce Clause has limits and does not grant the power to ban products or services. Nor does it have the authority to force business to produce a certain product or service.

[loveconstitution1789]

Those facts have not stopped the federal government from trying to regulate INTRASTATE commerce and they ban drugs, lawn darts, interstate prostitution, and other products and service.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

At least we can agree that there seems to be no Constitutional authority for any member of the government to control private production.

[loveconstitution1789]

I just informed you of how the federal controls business. You can ignore that and do your Anarchy thing but you are not convincing anyone of your position.

The media is pushing for Martial Law and they will get that good and hard for a few weeks. Then Trump will go back to the way it was.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

The Commerce Clause has limits and does not grant the power to ban products or services. Nor does it have the authority to force business to produce a certain product or service.

This is what I was agreeing with you on. Of course the Constitution doesn't give anyone the authority to force someone to produce something.

[Commenter_XY]

Leo....you need to talk to Congress, they gave him that authority. Whether that was the right thing or wrong thing to do is a separate question. But your beef is with Congress, not POTUS Trump.

[loveconstitution1789]

I think the Defense Production Act is a ridiculous violation of the Constitution. Now is not the time to argue over because there is hysteria and lies being passed along by the media. They are all fucking liars and have been for a long time.

We are not at war. This is not a crisis. The President and federal government have no special powers. The states have no special powers, no matter what their Governors say.

Americans are not on board with government is doing. That is how Civil Wars start.

Trump is the Best President in US History but he still has limitations as he is just a man. He has made some mistakes like the bump stock ban and this 30 day recommendation fro quarantine.

The DPA thing is so US companies can get federal funds. The companies want to build the ventilators to bilk the government. It was an agreement on the down low. Media is too infected with TDS to look into it.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You keep telling us the media is lying, yet you never show us proof.

Again:is the media in Italy out to get Trump? Is the media in Iran out to get Trump? Is the media in Spain out to get Trump? Is the media in Germany out to get Trump?

You are proposing that this is all a global conspiracy, again. Every time Trump looks like a moron or a wannabe dictator, you come in here telling us it is really the lying media in some part of a shadowy conspiracy. So who is it this time? Who's behind it all? Who can possibly control all the world's media? Which euphemism for "the joos" are you going to blame this time?

[loveconstitution1789]

poor unreason sock trolls.

I used to think Lefty idiots just didnt know that more and more Americans were ignoring their lies. Now it clearly is that Lefties live in Delusion-Land. They really just have no idea and cannot survive outside their little urban bubble.

[Conchfritters]

All hail the best president in US History and wartime President Donald Trump!

Did that fucking chuckle head just tweet about Harry and Megan??! LOL!!!

[Fats of Fury]

Yes, he tweeted that the U.S. government will not pay for Prince Harry and Meghan's security if the royal couple move to Los Angeles. Are you saying the US should pay for their security?

[loveconstitution1789]

Uh. I'm more concerned that the US-Canadian border was closed ( I thought the media said that), yet British citizens get to just waltz into the USA.

[Conchfritters]

Hell no, I could give two shits about British royals. Glad the President of the United States sees it as his role with everything else going on to sort this shit out.

[JesseAz]

No.

[Cynical Asshole]

All I know for sure is if I ever have to be put on a ventilator, I'll feel really good about being put on one made by GM. /sarc

[Conchfritters]

LOL

[Leo Kovalensky II]

They'll just claim that the bad ones were branded Pontiac, Saturn, or Oldsmobile.

They couldn't even make good cars, you know, their actual business... as evidenced by the demise of the brands listed above. I can only imagine how bad these ventilators will be. And by UAW workers, nonetheless.

[DesigNate]

I don’t have a problem with that. Every President since FDR has been a fascist. Some more than others.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Agreed.

We might have thought that the "best President evah!" or the "most libertarian-ish President ever" might have been different.

[Echo Chamber]

getting that number "down to 100,000" deaths would be "a very good job."

The media didn't care when 80,000 people died from the flu in 2018.

[JesseAz]

My guess is 100k is still way too high an estimate.

[Commenter_XY]

Not slamming you JesseAZ, but as a stats guy, you know better. We're at a point where the models have been informed by a lot of clinical, real-time data from SK, EU, and most importantly the USA.

Fauci and Brix would not have thrown out those numbers unless they were pretty sure.

[loveconstitution1789]

KungFlu is not a national emergency [period].

Unless it is a biological attack and the government is not telling us something, the seasonal Flu and Cold are more deadly than this Wuhanvirus.

[De Oppresso Liber]

"Unless it is a biological attack and the government is not telling us something, the seasonal Flu and Cold are more deadly than this Wuhanvirus."

False, you fuckwit. Again, learn the difference between death rate and total death.

[loveconstitution1789]

poor unreason. Burning thru sock trolls like crazy.

Luckily, revenues from advertising are dropping like crazy and unreason is mostly sock trolls.

[JesseAz]

My view of Fauci stems from his projections of the AIDS crisis. He is always pessimistic and off by orders of magnitude.

There was also a good Podcast w Dr. Drew Pinski where he described Fauci pretty well. He had worked with Fauci on many epidemics including AIDS. Drew said Fauci alwaysbuses pessimistic projections in order to get people to take his recommendations. Drew said to pay closer attention to the directives than the numbers.

[Jerryskids]

HIV Turns 30: Reflections From Dr. Anthony Fauci of NIAID - June 2, 2011.

But then about a month later on the fourth of July in 1981, the second Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report came out, now showing an additional 26 men, again curiously all gay, otherwise previously healthy, who not only had Pneumocystis pneumonia but other infections and an unusual form of cancer called Kaposi sarcoma. They were not only from LA but some from San Francisco and New York City.

It was really at that point, as a physician-scientist, for one of the first times in my professional career, that I actually got goose pimples looking at something because I didn't know what it was. But I knew it was something new because I had been doing infectious disease for the previous 10 years. I hadn't seen anything like this, and I made a decision at that point in my career to turn around from what I was doing and to start pursuing this mysterious disease.

As another commenter had pointed out recently, federal dollars spent on AIDS research is second only to cancer research - ahead of heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimers, you name it - and on a per-patient basis is a full order of magnitude higher than anything else. Fauci is first and foremost an AIDS researcher and his expertise in epidemiology I suspect only extends insofar as it overlaps with his primary field of research. Despite the fact that he was specifically charged in 2002 with helping in developing a coordinated response to a biological weapons attack unleashing an unknown viral epidemic on the United States, as the CDC had previously been charged and as the Pentagon had reported the most likely form of terrorist attack following 9/11, Fauci and his brethren seem to have concluded that the best response would be to get the President to deal with the problem on an ad hoc basis. Fauci's role in this crisis seems to be to appear on TV about 17 times per day and utter vague platitudes about handling the crisis.

[Jerryskids]

Messed up the tags - the first two paragraphs are a quote from the shithead's lengthy interview, the third is my own opinion on what a shithead he is.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Fauci and Brix would not have thrown out those numbers unless they were pretty sure.

Oh, come on. There's a huge deviation between 100K and 200K deaths. Fauci threw that out based on a best-guess estimate, not because he's "pretty sure" that's going to be the case.

Keep in mind that this has already been a pretty bad flu season to begin with--our pediatrician mentioned off-hand during a January WCC that they'd been flooded non-stop with patients since the season began with sick kids, and that there had been a couple of nasty viruses running rampant through the city. Our own kids have been battling a rotating cycle of ear infections, fever spikes, and congestion almost non-stop since last fall.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if this stuff had worked its way through the US in some form already, but without an anti-body test it's impossible to say.

[Commenter_XY]

Red, I hope and pray the models are wrong, and we have no more deaths. When you are dealing with a population of 330MM people, that 100K deviation is a function of tenths of a percent in mortality. That is not a flaw of the model, it is the projection of the model numbers that make for the deviation.

Agree we need a serology test STAT!!! Thankfully Abbott produced one in record time. Goes out this week.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The lack of a mass anti-body test has really been the biggest nationwide failure in all of this. It's the only way to get a decent measurement on how widespread the illness actually is, and its overall severity. How many people were actually infected, and how many died, from this prior to it being classed as a pandemic, only the deaths were classed as being from causes like pneumonia or heart failure? How far into the "generational" spread is it currently? How many people, prior to late February, got what they thought was a bad flu bug, stayed home, and recovered?

[Commenter_XY]

Red, I actually cut the Feds a break. This thing came out of nowhere, and the Chinese lying and obfuscation cost us two months of development time. That is a separate topic for another day.

The fact that we are able to create, produce and now distribute a 5-minute very accurate serologic finger stick test within a month is nothing short of miraculous. China couldn't. The EU couldn't. Only we did it. The first 50K are out now, with production ramping up. We will have good serologic data in a couple of weeks, probably sooner. Thank God for Abbott Labs.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Also a good argument for keeping production of this stuff like this here instead of China. I mentioned a few weeks ago that part of a best-case scenario for this is that we actually begin clawing back the manufacturing of things like this from there, for the national security implications alone. Not only for medicine, it's fucking insane that the military has to use computer terminals created in China, with the possibility of all kinds of digital backdoors installed. Even the fucking circuit boards for the ventilators everyone is screaming for are made there.

[Commenter_XY]

You are so right = Also a good argument for keeping production of this stuff like this here instead of China.

[Troglodyte Rex]

One might also call it moving the goalposts,

By altering the outlook based upon more information?

One might also call you a feckless hack ENB.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

More bad economic news.

Charles Koch current net worth: $49.9 billion

According to Koch / Reason libertarianism, the economy was terrible when our benefactor was worth $60 billion. And now he's under $50 billion. Only unlimited, unrestricted immigration — with a $0.00 / hour minimum wage — can save us from the #DrumpfDepression.

#OpenBorders
#(EspeciallyDuringAPandemic)

[Rufus The Monocled]

In Canada we fear of another kind of virus. The Blackface virus.

Now we come to find out this degenerate sent masks to China 'before it was cool' even though it should have been clear to any clear minded leader not corroded by SJW ideological poison, that perhaps they should hold on to them.

In the ensuing shortage, China comes in with a PR stunt offering, you guessed it, masks.

Tell you what Bobby. I'd rather take my chances with the Wuhan than put on a mask made in the CCP.

Justin puts international image before the safety of Canadians.

[lap83]

as Trump becomes enamored of the "ratings" that being a crisis-time president brings…

Yeah yeah, he's the worst at everything except when he is popular. That's only because presidents are always popular in a crisis. If only there was an acronym for that level of bullshit...

[lap83]

*then it's only

blah, haven't had coffee yet

[lap83]

Obligatory media ranting aside, I do have a criticism about Trump.

I think the close everything down until the end of April is a ham-fisted way to compensate for the fact that he won't quarantine the places that need to be quarantined. Quarantine the worst outbreaks (looking at you NY) and the rest of the country could make their own decisions about what to do.

[Rich]

IIRC, he in effect stated that allowing Iowa and Idaho to open up would be unfair.

[Earth Skeptic]

So, the unfair meme. Thus since the least competent, er, I mean, most oppressed people have shit lives, the rest of us cannot flaunt our privilege and have good lives.

Am I doing it right?

(And the delayed olympics will announce participation trophies instead of winner medals.)

[loveconstitution1789]

People are going about their business more and more.

It is NOT a death sentence to get Wuhanvirus.

The media refuses to acknowledge these facts and pass them along. So Trump is recommending something while Americans do something else.

The federal government has no authority to lock down states or prevent travel between states without some real crisis and KungFlu is NOT a crisis.

[loveconstitution1789]

There are people taking their boats out on Lake Lanier to PARTY!

[Ron]

California is starting to shut down boat ramps because you can't have people enjoying there time of from work in the great outdoors in separate boats. no they have to stay at home couped up together

[loveconstitution1789]

Are you serious? Just goes to show residents of Commifornia are getting Socialism good and hard!

[ElvisIsReal]

In the NW after the shutdown order they announced parks (and beaches) would be free, so obviously they were super crowded. Now for your own good the parks and beaches are closed.

[soldiermedic76]

Oregon and Washington have closed sports fishing. The Forest Service in Idaho has closed campgrounds. It is sad to see so many people buy into the idea you can't go outside. It is droplet spread for fuck sake. If you stay six feet or more away from people you are fucking safe. So instead we close people up together, deprive them of fresh air, a way to reduce stress, vitamin D from the sun, breathing indoor air all day long etc... all of which decreases your immune response. It is almost like they want this to be worse, either that or they are fucking stupid. I am leaning towards the second option.

[loveconstitution1789]

This hysteria knows no bounds.

Vets like me have been laughing our asses off because most Americans have no concept of how nasty chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons can be.

The CS gas chamber is minor exposure and nearly every military person drains all mucus out and coughs their lungs up.

[loveconstitution1789]

Maybe we needed this to clear dead wood and make men out of Americans again. Young people seem invincible but mainly because they are stupid idiots not because they know that KungFlu is no worse than the seasonal Flu. Boomers are mostly scared shitless of getting this and their votes for The Great Society wont save them this year.

There is definitely something to the notion that freedom isn't free.

I hope it wall works out but at the rate the traitors are going in the media and our government, this Great Experiment will end soon.

[lap83]

Well hopefully it will all be moot since it looks like the treatment they're using in NY has been very effective so far

[loveconstitution1789]

Most Americans are going to get exposed to Wuhanvirus and the sooner everyone accepts that, the better.

Get medical facilities ready for an influx of old patients, everyone who is not sick go back to work, and sick people with minor symptoms rest at home.

Extend FMLA or something but cut these unemployment benefits at 4 weeks or something relatively short.

[JesseAz]

Dramatic shift? Trump was being optimistic. I know optimism is bad when it is colored orange... but wtf is this. Does reason prefer we stick with the 2 million dead 18 month timeline?

[loveconstitution1789]

unreason and the MSM's goal is to destroy the USA via nuking our economy.

We are letting it happen.

[creech]

I'm reluctant to admit it but Hillary would be doing a better job of managing this pandemic. She'd be following the Obama model used by him during the SwineFlu epidemic. You might remember, Obama refused to panic for four months after WHO declared it a worldwide epidemic. Eventually 300,000 Americans required hospitalization and about 12,000 died. No one objected to identifying Mexico as the source of the SwineFlu. No Republican governors gave him shit, no sports teams shutdown, no cower in place, no stock market free fall. But no, this time, Trump completely panics.
What's the difference? The media loved Obama and would have loved Hillary. The media hates Trump and Trump, wanting to be loved (and re-elected), is stampeded into what we see all around us.
It is pretty much a forgone conclusion that the Media runs America.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

If the media did run America, how did Trump get elected in the first place? Or do they do like the WWE and let the heel win a few just to build momentum till their epic loss at Wrestle Mania?

[creech]

They didn't run America in 2016 but had regained the lead in 2018 and, I believe, Trump is running a bit scared right now. I know three or four Trump supporters that are disgusted with the way he is behaving during this pandemic. Whether they hold their noses and vote for him in November...well, we will see.

[ElvisIsReal]

Do you not remember the press giving Trump free air time every single day all the way up until he got the nomination?

[JesseAz]

Nobel laureate krugman doesnt understand how to normalize data, or why we do so in disparate population sets.

https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/03/29/paul-krugman-blasts-our-response-to-virus-as-the-worst-in-the-world/

[Ken Shultz]

America's response to the coronavirus is the worst in the world, which is shocking and has a lot to do with a leader who is completely unfit, temperamentally and intellectually, for the job 1/ pic.twitter.com/sGZuFUukgr

— Paul Krugman (@paulkrugman) March 29, 2020

We didn't need a tweet from the pop culture king of Keynesian economics to know that he hated everything President Trump tried to do with last week's rescue package--because it was the exact opposite of Keynesian stimulus.

And I don't need to read what Krugman has written on the topic of last week's bill to know that he hates Trump's efforts to deprive the government of spending money in a liquidity crisis and give it back to the taxpayers (consumers) instead. That goes against the central point of being a Keynesian--the government doesn't have a marginal propensity to save.

Trump gave Keynesians the finger last week, right in their liquidity trap faces, and seeing how offended they were by it should clear up any confusion among Trump's critics about whether or not last week's rescue bill was fiscal stimulus. To pretend that last week's bill was Keynesian stimulus, you'd have to look past and ignore all the Keynesians who are lining up to denounce the bill for not being Keynesian stimulus.

I shudder to think what the rescue package would have looked like if Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden were in the White House.

[Sevo]

Here's all you need to know about Krugman:

"It really does now look like President Donald J. Trump, and markets are plunging. When might we expect them to recover?
[...]
Still, I guess people want an answer: If the question is when markets will recover, a first-pass answer is never."

[Ken Shultz]

I think the rescue package was about as good as it could have been given that the Democrats control the House.

President Trump's attempt to suspend payroll taxes through December of 2020 so that people can keep all of what they earn (and employers don't need to match those payroll taxes, too) was by far the best proposal on the table, but given that it was necessary to get this through the House controlled by Nancy Pelosi (and despite her concerns for keeping people like AOC in check), we're lucky it isn't far worse.

. . . or maybe it isn't luck. Maybe who's in the White House makes a big difference--sometimes--and when people vote for a populist, the rescues they get are less about reimbursing Wall Street investors for their losses (as Krugman would have it) and more about stuffing the taxpayers' pockets full of money that would have been spent by the government otherwise.

And when we see people like Boehm and Suderman deriding the rescue package for being Keynesian stimulus, we should all keep in mind that all the Keynesians are denouncing the bill for being the opposite of that. They're out in left field by themselves.

It's like going after Trump for being a gun grabber in the aftermath of the Las Vegas shooting because of his bump stock ban. No, that wasn't the most pro-gun rights thing he could have done, but if you're pro-gun rights and all you get in the aftermath of the Las Vegas shooting is a bump stock ban, that's about the best you can reasonably hope for. Hillary Clinton (or Joe Biden) wouldn't have let that crisis go to waste. They would have used that crisis to ban "assault weapons" and AR-15s--as a bare minimum. No, President Trump isn't just as bad as Hillary or Biden because he wasn't absolutely perfect and principled in his non-response to the Las Vegas shooting, but he was head and shoulders above what we would have had otherwise.

I see the rescue package the same way. I'd rather we did nothing than what we did, but then I'd rather see payroll taxes suspended than do nothing, and the fact that the rescue package is so much better than it could have been is largely attributable to President Trump being in the White House. And seeing the Keynesians rail against President Trump because he gave them and their whole philosophy the finger is further evidence of that. If the Keynesians were in charge of the economy, the rescue package wouldn't have been the way it is. It would have been all Keynesian stimulus and bailouts.

[Sevo]

"President Trump’s attempt to suspend payroll taxes through December of 2020 so that people can keep all of what they earn (and employers don’t need to match those payroll taxes, too) was by far the best proposal on the table,.."

Not only allowing people to keep their own money, but reducing the inevitable bureaucratic friction of government collecting and they handing out the (reduced) amounts. And possibly, just possibly, slowing those parts of the government which rely on that constant revenue stream.
It's almost as if Pelosi had an inkling of the good it might have done for the population and the possible harm to the government.

[Commenter_XY]

I agree...the payroll tax holiday would have been quick, easy and efficient - and would have provided immediate relief to working Americans. Naturally, Team D opposed it.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Explain how a payroll tax holiday (while I would have greatly appreciated it) would help people laid off?

[Ken Shultz]

It would make it less expensive for companies to hire them--since the employer wouldn't need to pay the employer's share of payroll taxes.

Meanwhile, being unemployed sucks and is supposed to suck.

[Ken Shultz]

Are you not clear on the fact that the money your employer takes out of your paycheck for various taxes isn't the only form of payroll taxes? Your employer matches your contributions, and while those expenses are paid by your employer for employing you, they don't show up on your paycheck.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I am an employer, I am fully aware.

Again, how is a payroll tax cut to help a laid off waitress? No amount of payroll tax cutting is going to increase demand for her services. No employer is paying her, no matter the tax implications of her employment.

[Ken Shultz]

The cost of employing her goes down until December if there are no payroll taxes, and being broke and unemployed is supposed to suck.

[R Mac]

It’s cute you keep trying to have a conversation with Lying Jeffy.

Sometimes he’s to dumb to understand what your saying. Other times he’s not, so he’ll lie.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Maybe but I have a feeling that if the stimulus was/is Keynesian it wouldn't matter to the Keynesian it would never be enough. Just like Krugman said about Obama's stimulus plan.

Those of us who say that the stimulus was too small are often accused of after-the-fact rationalization: you said this would work, but now that it hasn’t, you’re just saying it wasn’t big enough. The quick answer to that accusation is that people like me said that the stimulus was too small in advance.

- Paul Krugman

[Ken Shultz]

No doubt, they would have wanted more.

[Rufus The Monocled]

If I were a Nobel descendant and kept seeing these predictable and unimaginative takes Krugman spews while squealing like Retard Pig I'd set up the prize where I can retroactively revoke it.

"Listen, Paul. I know you did great with an obscure branch of economics, but this shit....this shit is retarded. Please hand it over."

"But without it I'm nothing! How can I give those classes on youtube or write for the NYT! They give me a free ascot and smoking jacket every year!"

"Hand it over."

[Ken Shultz]

The same thing happens to scientists with climate change. Either you're a scientist or you do political advocacy. Praying for rain doesn't become scientific because it's done by a scientist, and while science can inform political advocacy, political advocacy doesn't become scientific because a scientist is doing that either.

It's the same thing with economists like Krugman. Once he started doing political advocacy, it stopped being academic--and we're not even talking about the divide between normative economics and positive economics. In other words, his job isn't even to use economics to show what ought to be--given his preferences. His job is to influence the general public. He's not doing economics now, and he shouldn't be judged by those standards.

The people who imagine he has authority because he's an economist should understand that authorities on economics don't consider his work at the New York Times (or elsewhere as a pundit) to be economics. They think he's an advertiser. They think he's a preacher. Why assume he has any authority as an economist when we read him in the Times if economists don't think of his work as having any authority?

Are his arguments in the New York Times peer reviewed? Of course not . . . so they're only as good as the validity of the way those arguments are put together--like any other journalist. And I've read better economic arguments written by non-economist journalists.

[loveconstitution1789]

Let's be honest about economists anyway. They are overglorified financial historians.

[Ken Shultz]

"In Dramatic Shift, Trump Tells Nation To Stay at Home Until the End of April"

"Donald Trump did an about face from downplaying the number of possible COVID-19 deaths in America"

Just after the election of 2016, Gillespie was pointing out that Trump's critics take him literally without taking him seriously, where Trump's supporters take him seriously without taking him literally. That rang true just after the election of 2016, but after three and a half years of making the same mistakes over and over, I'm not buying it anymore.

If some of these headlines were comments, we'd dismiss the commenters as trolls. That's about all most journalists have left to do these days--troll the American people for attention.

[John]

http://techstartups.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-cure-new-results-french-study-shows-combination-hydroxychloroquine-plaquenil-azithromycin-successfully-treated-80-coronavirus-patients-significant-dr/

It appears the treatment developed by the French virologist is showing a lot of promise.

The first preliminary trial involved a total of 36 COVID-19 patients. However, U.S. health agencies like FDA and CDA, are still very cautious about the effectiveness and safety of the two drugs due to small trial size and lack of sufficient data.

Today, Prof. Didier Raoult and his team published results of their new study online. The study, which was supported by the Institut Hospitalo-Universitaire (IHU) Méditerranée Infection, succeeds the previous one which dealt with around twenty patients. Unlike the previous small study trial, the new observation study has a larger sample size of 80 COVID-19 patients. The objective of the study was to find an effective treatment to cure COVID-19 patients and to decrease the virus carriage duration.

In 80 in-patients receiving a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, the team found a clinical improvement in all but one 86 year-old patient who died, and one 74-year old patient still in intensive care unit. The team also found that, by administering hydroxychloroquine combined with azithromycin, they were able to observe an improvement in all cases, except in one patient who arrived with an advanced form, who was over the age of 86, and in whom the evolution was irreversible, according to a new paper published today in IHU Méditerranée Infection.

80 patients is a very large sample and the results dramatic.

[lap83]

That's awesome!

[Commenter_XY]

John, n=80 is better, but it is not large enough to make a decision like mass distribution of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. The clinical trials underway now in NYC with over 1,000 patients will be enough to make a very good, data driven judgment.

[JesseAz]

The population sample in the study was 79 out of 80. That is a statistically positive result even at a population of 80. In materials sampling that would be considered definitive. But humans have more randomness to them. But dont undersell the sample. If closer to a 50% positive your point would be firm.

[Commenter_XY]

Directional, JesseAZ...directional. The NYC trials will tell us for certain.

[Echo Chamber]

Didn't the NYC trials begin last Tuesday, and isn't that long enough ago to have preliminary results aleady?

[lap83]

The article I link to below is from that study. It's looking really good so far.

[Echo Chamber]

Found the answer: in “the next three days.”

[Commenter_XY]

Echo, by the end of this week, there will be gross numbers. We will know enough whether to order a crapton of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin right the fuck now or not.

Figuring out who does best and why takes time. But the overall question - does this shit work at all - will be known.

[lap83]

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/28/dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-699-coronavirus-patients-100-success-using-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-zinc-z-pak-update/

I don't know if you saw this, but this NY doctor (who incidentally looks like a dwarf extra from The Hobbit) has successfully treated 699 coronavirus patients with the drug cocktail

[MP]

That testing never would have happened unless we shutdown the world economy.

/sarc

[End Child Unemployment]

So expect approval in a lightning quick 30 months?

[R Mac]

Or today.

[Brandybuck]

> voluntary social distancing

Which is the right response from the federal government. The states can be harsher if they want, places like New York need to be locked down. Voluntary social distancing is fine for 90% of the country. And Trump should have advised us to voluntarily social distance three weeks ago. But he was too busy pretending the disease was just a Democrat plot against him. Could end up being the biggest failure of any US president.

This isn't about partisanship. One can still argue that he would still be a better president than Hillary WITHOUT having to worship Orange Man as gawd almighty himself. It's not a black and white world. Trump is not your personal savior and it's okay to criticize him when he fucks up.

[Sevo]

"...Trump is not your personal savior and it’s okay to criticize him when he fucks up."

If you need help with that strawman, Leo is just upthread with a matching case of TDS.

[Brandybuck]

Is it really TDS when the T is busy tweeting about his rating in the middle of a crisis? Is it really TDS when T spent most of last month denying that there was even a crisis? Is it really TDS when just last week T was telling everyone that they could be home in time for Easter? Is it really TDS when T has to mock the media (by calling them LameStream) for reporting on the crisis?

They guy says whatever is in his head at the moment. No filtering at all.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Is it really TDS when just last week T was telling everyone that they could be home in time for Easter?

So is this going to be the new "hoax" meme? Because that's not what he said.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Incidentally, it was the press, not Trump, who were the ones that initially brought up the TV ratings of the daily conferences, and kvetching about whether the effect of giving Trump so much free, unfiltered air time was contributing to his increased approval ratings on how he was handling this. CNN and MSNBC have apparently taken to cutting away at various points, even during periods when Trump isn't answering questions, so their Retard Brigade can provide their own spin. Ironically, just a few short weeks ago they were bitching that he hadn't held a press conference in months.

Trump bringing up the ratings is him trolling the press over their own reflexive anti-Trumpism.

[Commenter_XY]

I just finished watching the coronavirus task force briefing. Seriously, could the media possibly be more snarky and asinine? This is the biggest public health emergency in a century, and the media just blows it by their antagonizing manner of asking questions.

Seriously, we need information not a fucking media snark show.

[JesseAz]

To think you almost got a whole post in that could have been positive.

[loveconstitution1789]

The states have NOT AUTHORITY to be harsher.

This bullshit about states with checkpoints and go door-to-door to force Americans to quarantine is utter tyranny.

KungFlu is no worse than the Flu, so trying to implement some halfass Martial Law is not Constitutional. We have a right to peaceful assembly. A right to religious worship. A right to keep and bear Arms.

Government has only one option to violate rights like that in an emergency and that is to declare Martial Law and suspend habeas corpus. They wont do it because these state tyrants know what will happen. They will get attacked by us armed Americans.

[loveconstitution1789]

There is no Constitutional way to suspend the Constitution, even in an emergency. The US Constitution provides no authority for that.

The US Constitution provided for a way to limit some rights during invasion or some other emergency but that assumed most Americans would be on board.

Americans are not on board with a 6 week quarantine, no matter what the liars in the media say.

[Rufus The Monocled]

NYC is not Upstate NY. NY isn't New England. NY isn't L.A. and it ain't the USA.

Yet, it seems people are acting what's happening in an urban-jungle setting with millions clustered, is the norm and trend for the rest of the country.

Even in Italy itself the vast number of cases remains in the North. The south is largely spared and not facing the same level of cases.

[Sevo]

"Yet, it seems people are acting what’s happening in an urban-jungle setting with millions clustered, is the norm and trend for the rest of the country."

And the wholesale demolition of the economy is based on that lie; yet one more proof of the failure of economic central planning.

[loveconstitution1789]

True Rufus. Almost half of the confirmed Wuhanvirus cases are in the NYC area. Within 150 miles.

NYC could have been quarantined easily by cutting off bridges.

We are way past that and it was never needed. Most Americans have now been exposed to KungFlu and a majority of those have it now worse than seasonal Flu/Cold. There are only a few thousand, maybe 10,000 that need more serious medical attention. That is totally manageable if our government would calm down and work together.

This is about politics, so Blue states and the Propagandists in the media wont stop until Pelosi is promoted to President.

[creech]

It took two years of Union ineptitude before New Yorkers rioted in 1863. I wonder how long it will take Manhattanites this time?

[Earth Skeptic]

In 1863 most people in NYC had balls.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I don't agree that the states can or should be harsher. People should be told about the risks and government through the CDC should advise people on what to do. Let people make their own decisions, and if those who ignore the warnings get the flu, then they should be responsible for their decisions.

It's worth pointing out that whole swaths of the economy were already responding to this with work from home orders and focusing on critical business needs only BEFORE governments stepped in with their stay at home orders. People would have significantly reduced travel, eating at restaurants, etc without government forcing it. It turns out that individuals don't want to get sick without the government mandating it.

[Sevo]

"It’s worth pointing out that whole swaths of the economy were already responding to this with work from home orders and focusing on critical business needs only BEFORE governments stepped in with their stay at home orders. People would have significantly reduced travel, eating at restaurants, etc without government forcing it. It turns out that individuals don’t want to get sick without the government mandating it."

Which will not stop those in government from taking credit; governments are ALWAYS trailing indicators.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I can almost guarantee you that the whole reason they are issuing these stupid stay at home orders is so that they can take credit. Most of them aren't even enforceable or simply aren't being enforced. But come November every governor, mayor, and even president will be bragging about how these orders saved billions of lives, and the people will nod in agreement.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Leo, I disagree. I live just outside Seattle. The social distancing did not take real effect until the government forced bars and restaurants and events to close. People would not be staying home from sports arenas and bars unless the government forced them to. Even my wife and I were out at restaurants the weekend prior to the ban. And we were taking this seriously due to my elderly parents being in town visiting. I think the forced closures have been far more effective in slowing the spread than voluntary measures alone.

I'm saying government should be trusted or that we should rely on government for our best interest at all times. My utopia is libertarian, but I am careful to perceive facts first, even when they are inconvenient for my principles.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I’m saying government should be trusted or that we should rely on government for our best interest at all times.

insert a "not" in there after "I'm". dammit.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

And yet both Fox News and CNN are constantly showing people defying these orders with utter contempt for their rights to do so.

My company and most of the other major employers in my area issued orders for all non-critical employees to work from home prior to my Governor issuing a decree. They implemented screening to get onsite on their own. They implemented paid leave for anyone who had to care for their children or felt ill prior to Congress passing any legislation.

It turns out individuals do what's in their best interests without the threat of force from governments quite often.

[loveconstitution1789]

HAHA. Libertarian. HAHA

[DesigNate]

“ Donald Trump did an about face from downplaying the number of possible COVID-19 deaths in America, now suggesting that 2.2 million people here could die.”

Wait, so now we’re supposed to believe what Orange Hitler says? Jesus Christ, make up your minds!

(Oh, and Fauci is saying between 100k to 200k based on new projections. So worse than your normal seasonal flu, but not astronomically so.)

[R Mac]

“Last week, Trump was promising that most of America would be back open for business as usual by Easter Sunday.”

Your own damn link says he was suggesting, not promising. Fucking lying hack.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Field dispatch from state-controlled Soviet America, week three:

The subjects are beginning to get restless. Now that the long, harsh winter is over and temperatures are rising, people are beginning to congregate outdoors in defiance of local commissars. Critical needs such as toilet paper are still in short supply. However, gasoline prices have plummeted in defiance of the wishes of supreme leader of the politburo George Soros. As great former supreme leader Nikita Kruschev said, economics is a subject that does not greatly respect one's wishes.

[Ra's al Gore]

Just shut up and trust me, peon:

https://politics.slashdot.org/story/20/03/30/0327217/what-happens-when-epidemiologists-are-undermined-by-politics

Earlier this month Ferguson posted on Twitter that Microsoft and GitHub are working to "document, refactor and extend" the thousands of lines of C code written over 13 years ago to run pandemic simulations, "to allow others to use [it] without the multiple days training it would currently require (and which we don't have time to give)."

[Ra's al Gore]

Doubt the mathematical models of Credentialed Experts, and you need to die:

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1244089331091939333

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/TheRalphRetort/status/1244440298991878146

[Ra's al Gore]

This is beautiful. Remember when you buy running shoes that
@newbalance
did this with their American workforce while
@Nike
is almost entirely offshored to China.
https://twitter.com/thechrisbuskirk/status/1244380325498650625

[Rufus The Monocled]

That is awesome.

New Balance is an American gem and I've been buying their shoes for over 20 years now and won't change. Unless of course, some SJW CEO manages to infiltrate like Chick-fil-A.

Nike are virtue signalling hypocritical shit heads and I'll never buy a single Nike product again. Unless they smarten up and reverse track.

[Conchfritters]

I haven’t bought a pair of Nikes since the Jordan pumps. New Balance are pretty damn good shoes.

[mad.casual]

US Average daily death toll due to corona virus (since Jan. 19, 2020): 29.7
US Average daily death toll due to all causes (Jan.-Mar.): ~8,250

US Total death toll due to corona virus: 2,112
US Total death toll (since Jan. 19, 2020): ~565,000

Every year;
Heart Disease ~600K
Cancer ~600K
Accidental Deaths ~160K
Respiratory Illness ~155K
Stroke ~150K
Alzheimers ~120K

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/alx/status/1244647836031074304
During a Pandemic it is essential that the Media gives us real and accurate information.

It’s completely irresponsible for
@CBSNews
to use footage from an Italian Hospital when talking about the outbreak in New York City.

This is unacceptable.

[loveconstitution1789]

The media are liars.

What should we expect from liars?

[Jerry B.]

"A spiraling number of New York City police officers have caught the coronavirus"

Or the Blue Flu. They get paid either way, so why risk it.

[loveconstitution1789]

Remember when the NYPD calls out sick to protest?

Way higher percentages are out "sick".

[Rossami]

Given the NYPD's history of respect for civil rights, 13% sick sounds like maybe that should be the paragraph opened with "In some good news..." With luck, the good citizens of NYC might even realize that maybe they don't need all of those heroes in blue to come back.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor unreason is trying to peddle five magazines for $5.

[Robert]

CDC's own data show the epidemic to have peaked 2 weeks ago, before these control measures.

[NOYB2]

One might also call it moving the goalposts, to cover for federal missteps and hubris in handling the virus crisis so far.

What "federal missteps and hubris"?

Trump pivots on COVID-19 containment strategy and goals. The president has a depressing new vision for defining a coronavirus job well done.

now suggesting that 2.2 million people here could die. Considering the circumstances, he said, getting that number "down to 100,000" deaths would be "a very good job.

And he would be right. What problem do you have with that statement?