Coronavirus

Tired: There Are No Libertarians in a Pandemic. Wired: There Are Only Libertarians in a Pandemic.

From relaxed TSA rules to speedy FDA approvals, the coronavirus is forcing authorities to admit many of their regulations are unnecessary.

|

Man, it seems like only a few days ago that the smart set was writing off small-government types (again!) in articles with such snarky headlines as "There Are No Libertarians in a Pandemic."

By now it might be more correct to believe there are only libertarians in a pandemic, including officials who are suddenly willing and able to waive all sorts of ostensibly important rules and procedures in the name of helping people out.

How else to explain the decision by the much-loathed and irrelevant-to-safety Transportation Security Administration (TSA) to allow family-sized jugs of hand sanitizer onto planes? The TSA isn't going full Milton Friedman—it's reminding visitors to its website "that all other liquids, gels and aerosols brought to a checkpoint continue to be allowed at the limit of 3.4 ounces or 100 milliliters carried in a one quart-size bag." But it's a start.

Something similar is going on in Massachusetts, a state well-known for high levels of regulation, including of the medical sector. Expecting a crush in medical care needs due the coronavirus, Gov. Charlie Baker has seen the light and agreed to streamline the Bay State's recognition of "nurses and other medical professionals" who are registered in other parts of the United States, something that 34 states do on a regular basis.

As Walter Olson of the Cato Institute observes,

That's a good idea, which should help get medical professionals to where they are most needed, and it is one of many good ideas that should be kept on as policy after the pandemic emergency passes. After Superstorm Sandy in 2012, by contrast, when storm‐​ravaged oceanside homeowners badly needed skilled labor to restore their premises to usable condition, local laws in places like Long Island forbade them to bring in skilled electricians even from other counties of New York, let along other states.

And over at the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), bureaucrats have suddenly decided to approve overnight a coronavirus test that its former chief, Scott Gottlieb, has described as a "fairly routine technology."

The Roche test is 10 times faster than the process currently being used, but the FDA didn't approve it until this past Friday—and then only for this particular emergency. But even with that delay and that limited application, this is a welcome shift.

As Reason's Ronald Bailey has noted, the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention "stymied private and academic development of diagnostic tests that might have provided an early warning and a head start on controlling the epidemic that is now spreading across the country."

You can probably see where I'm going with this: If the policies and decisions above are worth tossing out in an emergency, maybe they ought to be sidelined during normal times too.

Situations like the 9/11 attacks and the coronavirus outbreak often open the door to naked power grabs whose terrible consequences stick around long after the events that inspired them (looking at you, TSA!). Governments rarely return power once they've amassed it. But if you listen carefully, you can hear them telling us what stuff they realize can be safely tossed. When the infection rates come down and the theaters and schools and everything else get back to normal, it may be tempting just to go back to the way we were. Resist the temptation: A lot of the rules we put up with every day are worth reevaluating, and not only during an emergency.

NEXT: The Not-So-Great Society

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. Still insisting testing stops epidemics.

    1. It does show the actual low spread rate though. South Korea only has a 4% positive rate.

      1. Test enough people and the positives will inevitably trend down.

        To be clear, I’m not arguing against testing, just noting that testing alone only generates data, beyond that its value remains unclear.

        1. They are testing mainly people with symptoms. Not random sampling. A 4% rate is low in that case.

        2. “To be clear, I’m not arguing against testing, just noting that testing alone only generates data, beyond that its value remains unclear.”

          Generating good data should be of sufficient value to make use of the process.

          1. If the data being generates shows that the epidemic is not so bad after all, the economy could recover quickly.

          2. Maybe, but you will never know unless and until you have the data. So, I’d be interested in some random sampling in multiple geographic locations as much as the targeted testing that Jesse notes is the current practice.

            The latter is more useful for clinicians when evaluating specific cases, the former might be more beneficial for general use.

          3. Who said anything about good data?

        3. I agree that testing is only as useful as what you do with the data it generates. But frequent and broad testing in the US could have helped us to avoid the more draconian shutdowns we’re seeing now.

          Testing anyone who had contact with a confirmed case of the virus would help contact-trace through the community, imposing more targeted isolation and self-quarantining measures, which would limit the spread of the virus further. But since we don’t have that data, we have to engage in broad-based shutdowns, where every bar, restaurant, gym, movie theater, etc., shutters for an indefinite period of time. It’s only a matter of time before similarly broad controls of movement are imposed. Again, just because we don’t know who has the virus and who’s transmitting it.

          1. “Testing anyone who had contact with a confirmed case of the virus would help contact-trace through the community”

            Could. Not Would. And that’s part of the problem with people’s faith in testing. We really don’t know exactly when people with actual exposure will actually test positive. So it is quite possible that testing too soon would give a false impression, while delaying the same tests might obviate their potential benefit.

            1. Part of the issue is that COVID 19 is just another corona virus, so simple antigen testing – looking for a positive immune response within the patient – does not really tell you what you need to know.

              To know it’s COVID 19 you need to have active viral replication going on in the test subject, and then obtain viral genetic material (DNA or RNA) in order to compare it to the known sequence of COVID 19. That condition will inevitably require some significant time from exposure to possible detection.

      2. It does show the actual low spread rate though. South Korea only has a 4% positive rate.

        By which you mean only 4 percent of those tested under South Korea’s aggressive testing regime came up positive, right?

        (Apologies, still working on getting my epidemiology chops up to snuff.)

    2. Breaking news, Inslee just shut down all bars and restaurants in WA state.

      This shit has gotten out of control. Something has to be done about the democrats.

      1. Because all those people looking to get out and drink & socialize are instead just going to stay at home.

        They would never start to congregate in houses or other places, places that really are not designed or intended to provide adequate sanitary conditions for large groups of people.

        1. Now the difference is that it will destroy the economy. Democrats finally get their wish.

      2. Grease-ball Newsom ‘asked’ that all bars close in CA.
        If I owned a bar, that door would stay open.

  2. I can definitely say this pandemic has made me even more committed to the libertarian position of unlimited, unrestricted immigration.

    #OpenBorders

    1. Vaya Con Dios.

    2. Drink!

    3. Yeah, I was wondering about that! Haha.

    4. Mexico is considering closing the border. They don’t want infected Americans in their country.

      1. Good.

      2. Or Guatemalans.

    5. Don’t feed the trolls.

  3. Covid19 is going to have another victim when JFree dies of a heart attack out of fear. Still wont hit 100 casualties though. Maybe next week.

    1. Hey, it’s it 61 , 61 !! That’s almost a regular weekend of shootings in Chicago .

      1. A hidden benefit of social distancing. Idiots spraying bullets have less chance of hitting anyone.

        1. Not quite. They have less chance of hitting who they want to, a bit higher chance of hitting a bystander.

    2. At what number of fatalities will you be impressed?

      1. Prefer percentage to hard numbers. But get to 100 first.

        1. That will likely be by 2359 EDT Monday. At what % will you be impressed?

          1. “That will likely be by 2359 EDT Monday. At what % will you be impressed?”

            No.
            See below, and get serious.

            1. Feel like a wager?

              1. Sure.
                Tell me what sort of idiocy you propose. I’m happy to bet or laugh at your sorry ass.

                1. You said “No” to there being 100 COVID-19 fatalities by 2359 EDT Monday 16 March. I’m asking if you want to wager on that prediction.

                2. Ad hominem attacks are the best way to persuade me to your position. Just saying.

                  1. are not. Reason really needs that edit button

                  2. Sorry to have mislead you. My comment was in regard to the assumed value of 100 being an impressive percentage. It isn’t and it isn’t even impressive as a number.
                    Try my suggestion you look below rather than hope to make a buck on some chicken little number:
                    “Get back to me at 10,000 and you might get attention, even though that’s under the annual US death rate from seasonal flu.

                    1. Atlas Slugged
                      March.16.2020 at 1:08 am
                      “I was hoping to actually discuss like adults. Was not to be.”

                      Bullshit.
                      You were hoping your steaming pile of shit would be accepted without question.
                      Stuff it up your ass so your head has some company and fuck off.

                  3. “Ad hominem attacks are the best way to persuade me to your position. Just saying.”

                    If you prefer not to be addressed as an idiot, please do not post as such.
                    And as regards my efforts to ‘persuade’ idiots? I have not desire to do so, and will not waste any time in the effort.
                    Idiot.

                    1. I was hoping to actually discuss like adults. Was not to be.

                    2. Let’s see if Reason’s bargain-basement software puts it in the right location this time, pointing out that Atlas Slugged is both a lying piece of shit and a lefty ignoramus:

                      Atlas Slugged
                      March.16.2020 at 1:08 am
                      “I was hoping to actually discuss like adults. Was not to be.”

                      Bullshit.
                      You were hoping your steaming pile of shit would be accepted without question.
                      Stuff it up your ass so your head has some company and fuck off.

            2. 86 dead in USA as of March 16, 2020, 22:58 GMT

      2. “At what number of fatalities will you be impressed?”

        Some number which sort of, kind of, maybe, is appropriate to shutting down major portions of the economy.
        Get back to me at 10,000 and you might get attention, even though that’s under the annual US death rate from seasonal flu.

        1. Even italy where it is end of times, only has 1800 deaths in a country of 60 million. And this is supposedly the peak for them.

          1. I’m not full-on tinfoil to the point that I believe this whole shutdown scheme is some sort of “dry run” for something bigger later on down the road. But I can promise you that a lot of people in positions of power will be paying very close attention to how willingly we go along with it.

            1. Fair enough.

            2. “…But I can promise you that a lot of people in positions of power will be paying very close attention to how willingly we go along with it…”

              Truman called Korea a ‘police action’ and committed US troops to a war, ignoring his lack of legal power to do so. Got away with it, and the US has not ‘declared war’ ever since, base on ‘precedent’.
              Newsom ‘shut down’ bars in CA today; he has no legal power to do so.
              If anyone at Reason has a principles, now is the time to show it.

              1. thank you for writing this, some days I think I am the crazy one.

                They don’t actually NEED the power to do what they are doing, they just need everyone to BELIEVE they have the power. So far they are batting 1000.

                I can’t understand why the free market economic and libertarian leaning sites are not questioning the legality and appropriateness of every single action that the president on down to local mayors are doing.

                A true worldwide economic recession, even stagnation, will kill far more than this weak virus. I would love to have some articles on those numbers to show some sheep. This thing is so weak it is killed by rubbing alcohol. I scoff at that, get on your game coronavirus, norovirus can beat straight bleach now and laughs at alcohol based sanitizers!

                1. I do not recognize your handle, but wonder why you haven’t posted here before.
                  You have, quite clearly, defined the costs of government actions in causing the collapse of the economy, including consideration of the death rate.
                  Reason seems to be willing to ignore that..

          2. The bigger problem is the way their medical system is completely over run. That’s what’s causing the reaction. If their hospitals are at 110% capacity full time until every senior has caught this bug they’ll have decreased capacity to deal with literally anything else.

            1. Maybe socialized medical care has something to do with that.

              1. Look at the situation in the UK. Elderly told to stay inside for four months until there are some hospital beds available.

                1. Look at the situation in the UK. Elderly told to stay inside for four months until there are some hospital beds graves available

        2. Put another way, this (like all government coercion) has costs along with gains; in this case the costs FAR exceed even proposed gains.
          China, where it showed up and is now declining, has had fatalities estimated to be between 2500 and 3600 with one estimate far below 1000, this in a population of ~1,000,000,000, most poorly served with medical care.
          https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.02.20030064v2

          How many decimal places have to be missed to suggest what the US is doing is remotely appropriate.
          If JFree succumbs I certainly hope he passes on his PANIC!!! flag to the next chicken little

          1. I’m perfectly willing to discuss pros & cons of response, knowing full well some people are going to die sooner than they expected. I don’t think many politicians want to risk people dying though. As a society, most aren’t prepared to have that rational discussion.

            1. Mass panic is really no reason to allow the government more and more control over our lives.
              At what number of fatalities are you willing to tell the slavers to fuck off?
              Is one death sufficient to allow the government to tell us when and where we can travel or congregate?
              Perhaps two? Tell us what number you find to allow the government that sort of control over your life.

              1. Its an interesting thought exercise. Should the government have any public health powers to limit someone’s movement? The original Typhoid Mary was held against her will, seems unlikely there were many objections. How do I square the NAP if someone comes up to me and coughs in my face? Maybe they will make me sick, maybe they won’t. I won’t know for a while and there is no perfect defense for preventing infections that are spread through droplets.

                1. Atlas Slugged
                  March.15.2020 at 11:55 pm
                  “Its an interesting thought exercise…”

                  Help yourself, and please qualify you answers for 100 fatalities in a population of 300,000,000 and so forth until you make a case that non-idiots can accept.

        3. Its interesting that libertarians understand the seen & unseen in economics, yet only seem to see the “seen” of reported cases/death and not the “unseen” of cases/death prevented. I have no objection to debating if the economic costs are worth it, but its foolhardy to think the “seen” are the only things worth considering.

          1. Atlas Slugged
            March.15.2020 at 11:48 pm
            “Its interesting that libertarians understand the seen & unseen in economics, yet only seem to see the “seen” of reported cases/death and not the “unseen” of cases/death prevented.”
            It is also interesting to see our newest lefty ignoramus to assume that government restrictions have no unseen costs while whining that libertarians suggest that government action is often the worst solution. Got any data on those ‘deaths prevented’, lefty ignoramus?

            “I have no objection to debating if the economic costs are worth it, but its foolhardy to think the “seen” are the only things worth considering.”
            See above;
            You.
            Are.
            Lying.
            And.
            Full.
            Of.
            Shit.

            1. You are a tiresome bore.

              1. You, as a fucking lefty ignoramus, might try to defend your stupidity, but it is obvious that is beyond your abilities.
                Fuck off and die; make the world a better place.

            2. Actually, SEVO, we do have a good idea of how many people would die if we did nothing.

              In September 1918, Philadelphia held a planned Liberty Loan Parade to promote the government bonds that were being issued to pay for World War I.

              But the parade took place when the pandemic commonly called the Spanish flu — the H1N1 virus — arrived in the city of 1.7 million people.

              The virus spread to Philadelphia on September 19, 1918, through the Philadelphia Navy Yard, UPenn states. In a matter of days, 600 sailors had the virus.

              Yet Philadelphia didn’t cancel its Liberty Loan Parade, scheduled for just a little more than a week later. Meant to be a patriotic wartime effort, the parade went on as scheduled on September 28, bringing 200,000 Philadelphians together.
              By October 1, there were 635 new cases in Philadelphia, according to UPenn.

              Philadelphia was one of the hardest-hit US cities. More than 12,000 people died in six weeks, with about 47,000 reported cases, according to UPenn. By the six-month mark, about 16,000 had died and there were more than half a million cases.

              St. Louis, for example, canceled its parade while Philadelphia did not. In the end, the death toll in St. Louis (pop 687,000 in 1918) did not rise above 700, according to the CDC.

              “This deadly example shows the benefit of canceling mass gatherings and employing social distancing measures during pandemics,” the CDC said.

              In the US, about 675,000 people died of the 22 million who caught the flu.

              https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/15/us/philadelphia-1918-spanish-flu-trnd/index.html

              Philly ~ 1% dead
              St Louis ~ 0.1% dead

              1. Reading that story in the link, as well as the links in the CNN story, I’m not persuaded that an outdoor parade was responsible for increased flu transmission in Philadelphia to any significant degree. If indoors, you’re vulnerable to people shedding virus within six to ten feet of you, then outside you’re probably only vulnerable within two to three feet.

                Comparing Philadelphia and St. Louis is just an anecdote with an extremely small sample size and way too many confounding factors. It would make a little more sense to compare all cities that had or didn’t have mass outdoor gatherings, rather than to potentially cherry pick ones to prove a point.

    3. “Covid19 is going to have another victim when JFree dies of a heart attack out of fear. Still wont hit 100 casualties though. Maybe next week.”

      Long ago, I had a co-worker who was a 7th-Day-Adventist. We had lunch-time discussions; I asked ‘what happens when the world doesn’t end on X day’?
      She said “They change the date.”
      JFree is now betting on the FORTH WAVE, dammit!

    4. Like all of the Republican politicians who laughed off this virus right up until they were confirmed exposed/positive, you’ll change your tune once you get it yourself. Maybe then you’ll avoid visiting your elderly parents/grandparents, assuming they’re still alive.

      1. SimonP
        March.16.2020 at 11:26 am
        “Like all of the Republican politicians who laughed off this virus right up until they were confirmed exposed/positive, you’ll change your tune once you get it yourself.”

        Your TDS ate your cite.

        1. I don’t owe you a cite, fuckwit.

          1. “I don’t owe you a cite, fuckwit”

            You certainly don’t, you slimy piece of shit. We’ll simply accept that you’re shoveling bullshit.

            1. Whatever helps you sleep at night, Sevo. Hope no one you love dies because of this virus.

      2. Simon, you progtards are gleefully exploiting fear of this thing to destroy the economy. Trash like you will murder far more people than this virus ever could.

        1. Yes, the panic in the global markets inspired by this thing, and the various governments scrambling to contain it, regardless of their political orientation, are all part of a narrow plot by American “progtards” to swing the election in their favor.

          It’s just so unfair!

          1. SimonP
            March.16.2020 at 7:29 pm
            “Yes, the panic in the global markets inspired by this thing, and the various governments scrambling to contain it, regardless of their political orientation, are all part of a narrow plot by American “progtards” to swing the election in their favor.”

            No, just fucking lefty ignoramuses trying to use any bloody shirt they can in the hopes their TDS is justified.
            Fuck off and die, painfully and slowly; you deserve it.

          2. It’s trash like you that creates all this misery Simon. I can only hope this finally brings people together to dispose of your kind.

            1. Internet tough guy we got here.

  4. TSA also drops the rules when they don’t want to inspect people and speed things up. I seem them frequently wave groups through with no body scan or pat down. I was selected once for such treatment.

    Rules for liquids are already arbitrary. I once went through 2 airports with sunblock. On the way back it was no longer acceptable.

    If you fly out of Grand Rapids, MI the TSA there is prone to have you take a seat and perform a foot massage. Only place this ever happens to me.

  5. Well, DeWine just ordered all bars and restaurants closed here in Ohio , except drive thru and take out. Not libertarian to me.

    1. If you don’t need a drink now when?

    2. Same in WA by that cunt Inslee.

    3. I remember drive up windows in bars in Fla lo these 45 yrs ago. Just what we need to ease the fears of pandemics.

  6. If the policies and decisions above are worth tossing out in an emergency, maybe they ought to be sidelined during normal times too.

    At the risk of “giving them ideas”, I’m surprised it has not been argued that if these policies are needed during normal times, maybe they ought to be *enhanced* in an emergency.

  7. Limited Government = Success… Now where have I heard that before?

  8. Article above concludes:

    “A lot of the rules we put up with every day are worth reevaluating, and not only during an emergency.”

    During this emergency pandemic mass-death outbreak, I MUST urge ALL OF YOU to stay safe from the Flute Police!!!

    To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!

  9. LOOK HOW THEY VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION RIGHT NOW, IMAGE ONCE YOU ARE DISARMED?!?!

    We NOW get to really see WHO ARE THE ACTUAL #CONSTITUTIONALISTS!!!

    ATTENTION ALL #LEOs: Remember that you swore Oath:
    UPHOLD THE #CONSTITUTION
    SERVE AND PROTECT (PUBLIC, NOT TYRANNICAL OFFICIALS)

    YOU HAVE A #DUTY TO DISOBEY UNLAWFUL/UNCONSTITUTIONAL ORDERS!

    #BlueLivesMatter #OATHKEEPERS

    GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE AUTHORITY TO CLOSE DOWN ANY LEGAL BUSINESS or keep you from going to (like, BARS, as some are freaking out about seeing others still out having Fun)…. VIOLATION OF #FREEDOMOFASSOCIATION!

    Republicans MAY suggest people stay away from Crowds!
    IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR BLUE STATE #MAYORS / #GOVERNORS TO ORDER SUCH. PERIOD!

    “Those who would give up essential #Liberty, to purchase a little temporary #Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” #BenjaminFranklin

    #COVID19 #CoronaVirusUpdates #WahunVirus

    1. Hint:
      Posting like HIHN!!!!! does not improve your cred.

      1. Way too many hashtags.

        1. Not enough bold, right?

          1. no *sneer*

  10. Mass hysteria. SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu, Ebola nothing was shut down.

    1. It’s almost like they had a reason for calm before bit want a crisis now… cant figure out why.

    2. People are shutting things down because they lack reliable, trustworthy leadership at the top, calmly guiding things, and getting ahead of the trends before they became a problem.

      Ebola transmits itself via different means, so there maybe wasn’t as big of a fear there, but H1N1 routinely comes up in these discussions as an Obama failure by which Trump ought to be judged. Right? So if we didn’t shut down then, what does that tell us about what we should be doing now?

  11. Geez I sometimes can’t quite know what to say about Reason
    Are you ignoring that government is shutting down the economy and we’re at 60 deaths so it’s totally understandable..

    I also understand there will be many more deaths but we don’t have a cure or vaccine and it’s way worse than flu it not the plague.

    Is it worth destroying the economy ?

    Wake the fuck up

  12. I am making a good salary from home $1200-$2500/week , which is amazing, under a year back I was jobless in a horrible economy. I thank God every day I was blessed with these instructions and now it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with Everyone, Here is what I do. Follow details…. Read more

  13. It’s hard to reconcile the NAP with an infected person going around infecting others. I certainly wouldn’t think *all* libertarians support a right to do such things.

    Maybe you’ll find an ultra-libertarian who doesn’t believe in public-health measures in cases of infectious disease. Otherwise, I think libertarians accept the concept while having caution against public health being manipulated for political gain or for non-health purposes.

    Perhaps they could direct my attention to the real-life counterpart of the libertarian straw man who denies authority to the government to act in cases of infectious diseases.

    1. I think where skepticism comes in is when they treat things which aren’t infectious diseases which aren’t really infections diseases. Overeating, murder, etc.

      Actual infections, as in disease spreading through contact or breath, seems to be something all but the most fanatical freedom-lovers would let the government deal with.

      1. See above, 11:05:
        “China, where it showed up and is now declining, has had fatalities estimated to be between 2500 and 3600 with one estimate far below 1000, this in a population of ~1,000,000,000, most poorly served with medical care.
        https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.02.20030064v2

        Yes, there is a role’ for government in cases where the result can not be accomplished otherwise, and this does not seem to be one of them.

        1. In September 1918, Philadelphia held a planned Liberty Loan Parade to promote the government bonds that were being issued to pay for World War I.

          But the parade took place when the pandemic commonly called the Spanish flu — the H1N1 virus — arrived in the city of 1.7 million people.

          The virus spread to Philadelphia on September 19, 1918, through the Philadelphia Navy Yard, UPenn states. In a matter of days, 600 sailors had the virus.

          Yet Philadelphia didn’t cancel its Liberty Loan Parade, scheduled for just a little more than a week later. Meant to be a patriotic wartime effort, the parade went on as scheduled on September 28, bringing 200,000 Philadelphians together.
          By October 1, there were 635 new cases in Philadelphia, according to UPenn.

          Philadelphia was one of the hardest-hit US cities. More than 12,000 people died in six weeks, with about 47,000 reported cases, according to UPenn. By the six-month mark, about 16,000 had died and there were more than half a million cases.

          St. Louis, for example, canceled its parade while Philadelphia did not. In the end, the death toll in St. Louis (pop 687,000 in 1918) did not rise above 700, according to the CDC.

          “This deadly example shows the benefit of canceling mass gatherings and employing social distancing measures during pandemics,” the CDC said.

          In the US, about 675,000 people died of the 22 million who caught the flu.

          https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/15/us/philadelphia-1918-spanish-flu-trnd/index.html

          Philly ~ 1% dead
          St Louis ~ 0.1% dead

    2. If it is unknown to you that you are a carrier, I don’t see how you could have possibly violated the NAP.

      1. Nor, given the unknown severity of this particular disease, can you possibly make the case that you should avoid all contact with others.
        This is not Typhoid Mary; so far it’s Joe with a cold.

      2. Even if you are a known carrier. With a >90% survival rate and a considerable asymptotic rate, it quickly becomes unclear who is the aggressor and who was transgressed against and, moreover, what the aggression is.

        What, exactly, is the legal recourse for giving someone a fever? How many do we charge with the conspiracy to infect. I’m sure from the dearth of false rape accusations, there won’t be any “24 hour flu” accusations.

        The government big enough to give you everything you want… the government that stares into the pandemic abyss long enough… etc.

    3. “It’s hard to reconcile the NAP with an infected person going around infecting others”

      It isn’t simple, but it isn’t hard, either. Infectious diseases are a force of nature. Violating one person’s rights in order to protect another person from nature is against the NAP. For example, it would be wrong to force a person to fence their land in order to prevent migration of wolves across their property onto your ranch.

      A person who knows (or suspects) they are infected is violating the NAP if they then engage in behavior likely to spread that infection. Just as it would be a violation for you to bait/raise wolves to your land, and fail to confine them to your property.

      This country- or even the world- has infringed on the liberty of hundreds of millions (or billions!) of healthy individuals, in the hopes of protecting a tiny, tiny percentage of our population. If you are elderly, stay the fuck home. If you are immuno-comprimised, stay the fuck home. I’m sorry if you get sick, but wrecking the economy to lower your chances of getting sick by some small amount is not acceptable.

  14. I suggest no conscious ‘conspiracy’, and further suggest that the un-conscious, disorganzed group effort will fail.
    This is, simply, the last hope of the TDS-infected media (CNN, NBC, NYT, WaPo and others) that Trump can be painted with the brush of failure prior to offering up the D’s lame sacrificial object in November. As such, the flame-fanning is as yet at full throttle.
    This morning, the asshole bigot Rev was claiming Trump was the cause if the market’s tanking and the ‘collapse’ of the economy.
    You can argue, and I’ll agree, that Trump is not the “cause” of the markets and economic gains; he just got out of the way and tried to get the fed government out of the way. The economy responded appropriately.
    We now have government interference at the fed, state and local levels; what a wonderful result!

    1. The rev is a parody account who exaggerates the ugly, bitter authoritarian nature of prog ideology.

      The fact that his parody is barely distinguishable from real prog beliefs is what makes it successful parody. Don’t let him fool ya. Laugh at him.

      1. I do laugh, but perhaps like, OBL, should simply ignore the handle. Merci.

      2. It’s not exaggerated

  15. The government is merely making adjustments and exceptions in time of crisis. Picking winners and losers and who gets to follow rules or not is what the governments do. They’re letting the private sector fill in some of the void because its convenient for them and the usual cronies will reserve their objections.

    We are seeing governments exercising near wart time powers. When else would you see them quarantine entire cities and governments? Not even terrorism induces this level of worldwide shutdown. Price gougers will be prosecuted with force as will any attempt at innovation that doesn’t meet some criteria. China, Korea, and Taiwan all rely on surveillance tech to target individuals for testing. And news is that we got into that game as well.

    Where is the sense of urgency at Reason? Quarantines end freedom of movement and voluntary transaction and should be reserved for the most compelling reasons. 60 people died in this country and most of them were are nursing homes and assisted facilities. Should libertarians grow uneasy over governors to shut down all businesses in their state? A mayor Chicago tried to ban gun sales over the disease.

    Are they in a state of some ambivalence? Normally they would grudgingly applaud Trump for downplaying panic. But Trump is a immigration restrictionist. The implausibility of true open borders in a new corona virus world is staring them right in their face. Europe has open travel and now they’re the new epicenter.

    1. “Where is the sense of urgency at Reason? Quarantines end freedom of movement and voluntary transaction and should be reserved for the most compelling reasons. 60 people died in this country and most of them were are nursing homes and assisted facilities. Should libertarians grow uneasy over governors to shut down all businesses in their state? A mayor Chicago tried to ban gun sales over the disease.”

      Reason, both organizations, should be screaming bloody murder!
      Lefty twits were whining about ‘concentration camps’ for proposed immigrants, which immigrants could freely leave!
      Now we have people ‘quarantined’ (with no freedom to leave) over a disease which has yet to prove more dangerous than the common cold.
      And Reason seems to think this is ducky!

      1. Reason is basically a democrat lite publication anymore.

    2. ” A mayor Chicago tried to ban gun sales over the disease.”

      Oh, she grabbed a lot more power than just banning guns and ammo sales:

      After the declaration of an emergency, the Mayor may in the interest of public safety and welfare make any or all of the following orders and provide the following direction:

      (1) Issue such other orders as are imminently necessary for the protection of life and property.

      (2) Order a general curfew applicable to such geographical areas of the City or to the City as a whole, as the Mayor deems advisable, and applicable during such hours of the day or night as the Mayor deems necessary in the interest of public safety and welfare.

      (3) Order the closing of all retail liquor stores, including taverns and private clubs or portions thereof wherein the consumption of intoxicating liquor and beer is permitted;

      (4) Order the discontinuance of the sale of alcoholic liquor by any wholesaler or retailer;

      (5) Order the discontinuance of selling, distributing, or giving away gasoline or other liquid flammable or combustible products in any container other than a gasoline tank properly affixed to a motor vehicle;

      (6) Order the discontinuance of selling, distributing, dispensing or giving away of explosives or explosive agents, firearms or ammunition of any character whatsoever;

      (7) Order the control, restriction and regulation within the City by rationing, issuing quotas, fixing or freezing prices, allocating the use, sale or distribution of food, fuel, clothing and other commodities, materials, goods or services or the necessities of life;

      (8) (a) Order City employees or agents, on behalf of the City, to take possession of any real or personal property of any person, or to acquire full title or such lesser interest as may be necessary to deal with a disaster or emergency, and to take possession of and for a limited time, occupy and use any real estate to accomplish alleviation of the disaster, or the effects thereof;

      (b) In the event any real or personal property is utilized by the City, the City shall be liable to the owner thereof for the reasonable value of the use or for just compensation as the case may be.

      (9) Order restrictions on ingress or egress to parts of the City to limit the occupancy of any premises;

      (10) To make provision for the availability and use of temporary emergency housing;

      (11) Temporarily suspend, limit, cancel, convene, reschedule, postpone, continue, or relocate all meetings of the City Council, and any City committee, commission, board, authority, or other City body as deemed appropriate by the Mayor.

      (12) Require closing of business establishments.

      (13) Prohibit the sale or distribution within the City of any products which could be employed in a manner which would constitute a danger to public safety.

      (14) Temporarily close any and all streets, alleys, sidewalks, bike paths, public parks or public ways.

      (15) Temporarily suspend or modify, for not more than sixty (60) days, any regulation or ordinance of the City, including, but not limited to, those regarding health, safety, and zoning. This period may be extended upon approval of the City Council.

      (16) Suspend or limit the use of the water resources or other infrastructure.

      (17) Control, restrict, allocate, or regulate the use, sale, production, or distribution of food, water, fuel, clothing, and/or other commodities, materials, goods, services and resources.

      (18) Suspend or limit burning of any items or property with the City limits and up to two (2) miles outside the corporate limits.

      (19) Direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from any stricken or threatened areas within the City if the mayor deems this action is necessary for the preservation of life, property, or other disaster or emergency mitigation, response or recovery and to prescribe routes, modes of transportation and destination in connection with an evacuation.

      (21) Approve application for local, state, or federal assistance.

      (22) Establish and control routes of transportation, ingress or egress.

      (23) Control ingress and egress from any designated disaster or emergency area or home, building or structures located therein.

      (24) Approve the transfer the direction, personnel, or functions of City departments and agencies for the purpose of performing or facilitating emergency or disaster services.

      (25) Accept services, gifts, grants, loans, equipment, supplies, and/or materials whether from private, nonprofit, or governmental sources.

      (26) Require the continuation, termination, disconnection, or suspension of natural gas, electrical power, water, sewer, communication or other public utilities or infrastructure.

      (27) Close or cancel the use of any municipally owned or operated building or other public facility.

      (28) Declare, issue, enforce, modify and terminate orders for quarantine and isolation of persons or animals posing a threat to the public, not conflicting with the directions of the Health Officer of the community.

      (29) Exercise such powers and functions in light of the exigencies of emergency or disaster including the waiving of compliance with any time consuming procedures and formalities, including notices, as may be prescribed by law.

      (30) Issue any and all such other orders or undertake such other functions and activities as the Mayor reasonably believes is required to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons or property within the City or otherwise preserve the public peace or abate, clean up, or mitigate the effects of any emergency or disaster.

      Rest assured, the mayor is a Democrat.

      Wonder why they bothered with anything after item 1?

      1. Damn that’s one hell of a power grab.

  16. I could pretend to be outraged over the lying media’s reckless fearmongering, I could make something up about the ongoing wimpification of America, or i could try to convince you that i think it’s all a ploy to get Trump (which will fail).
    But, really I’m just mad because they took away baseball and hockey. No one gives a crap about the NBA. But cool people like hockey and baseball.

    1. And some of the NASCAR races aren’t bad, either.

    2. I miss the NBA and mourn March sadness, but most of all (at this moment) they took my XFL!!!

  17. If the man took his boots off your groin momentarily so that he could step on your face Gay Fonzie would call it a libertarian moment.

    1. Thank you for the insightful and useful informative article, obviously on your site everything is good.

      https://www.cryptoknowmics.com/news/best-altcoin-exchanges-that-provide-trading-services

    2. So be ready to roll out of the way the moment he gets his boot off of your nuts. Seize the moment to grab his boot and throw it into the dumpster where it belongs.

  18. This is a fantastic blog to me that’s why I want to give a lot of thanks to admin and request to admin for this site continue handling. I am requesting to admin you can write some blog on best platforms to buy altcoins in India.

  19. Thank you for sending me the information about it. I learned a lot from it! I appreciate you the detail you went into it. I am grateful for the amount of time and effort you put into this helping us. Your insights and summary are beneficial

  20. Like non essential travel. There’s a lot of it. It’s proportional to opulence and waste.

    Today international travellers are advised to go into self isolation.

    What about the air crews who travel internationally daily?

    1. And what about those Jooosssss, right Rob?

  21. Behold the new golden age! Huzzah!

  22. If the policies and decisions above are worth tossing out in an emergency, maybe they ought to be sidelined during normal times too.

    I wrote this almost word for word in a comment on Volokhh a couple days ago.

  23. As a libertarian, I am shocked by the faulty logic of this article. Changing a rule in changing circumstances is not an admission that the original rule was inappropriate.

    1. Thank you, someone, for finally demonstrating something that looks like actual common sense, and dare I say it…reason.

  24. Pandemics can Resultin such a change

  25. Another positive change I hope will come from this is workplace flexibility. Lots of jobs (mine included) have been forced to test contingency plans and remote work because of govts ordering businesses to close or at least to stop gathering in person. These tests are going quite well and I think businesses will realize a lot of jobs that were previously in-person can be done remotely. Of course there are advantages to working in-person, but optional remote work will make employment more attractive to a lot of people, including students, caretakers, parents who need to stay at home, etc.

  26. A lot of the rules we put up with every day are worth reevaluating, and not only during an emergency.

    This!

    This can be a great libertarian moment. Just as the statists used 9/11 as an excuse to grab power, now, while they are admitting most of their silliness is just that, silliness, it’s time for us to loudly pound the drum that most of their regulations serve no purpose except window-dressing.

    1. I think you and aajax above are thinking along the same line, and this is good.

      Yes, a large number of regulations and laws are window dressing and mere hobbles designed to create nothing more than hassle.

      I think it should be put in law that whenever laws, regulations, etc., are suspended in a time of crisis, that mandatory review of their efficacy should be reviewed, and if ineffectiveness is found, repealed.

  27. It’s interesting that there was another piece, on paid sick leave, where the Reason commentator argued that now is not the time for effecting broad policy changes, when we just need to handle the pandemic at hand. I guess the crisis has its uses, after all?

    Anyway, these short-term regulatory waivers are fine to re-evaluate, but they don’t indicate anything more broadly about the merits of this argument, such as it is. There is nothing “libertarian” about observing that crises sometimes require cutting red tape that ordinarily is designed to ensure quality of care and public health and safety. Particularly when, as we’re seeing here, so much of this red tape-cutting is happening via executive dictat.

  28. You what IS an effective regulation during a pandemic? Border control.

  29. First an article conflating capitalism with libertarianism, and now an article conflating changing regulations with libertarianism?

    Sorry dudes, an action taken for entirely non-libertarian reasons doesn’t make the person taking the action a “libertarian” just because you could justify the action through libertarian philosophy.

    For that matter, we already know that people acting in their own self-interest is not the best way to stop an epidemic. This is a classic scenario where what’s good for the individual doesn’t really align with what’s good for the community, and so self-interested selfishness generates bad outcomes.

    1. Get up off of your knees.

  30. By now it might be more correct to believe there are only libertarians in a pandemic

    Not quite. I’d say things break down into people with a libertarian mindset, and those that want government to be their mommy.

    As far as government agencies waiving their regulations and restrictions, this is just run-of-the-mill CYA.

  31. Someone sent me this.

    Day 5 without sports

    Found a lady sitting on my couch yesterday.

    Apparently she’s my wife.

    She seems nice.

    1. Let’s see what he says about her on day 10.

      1. Funny.

        Mine has had her work outside the house cancelled. So she is already thinking up honey do lists. Plus I can handle about 10 minutes of Grays Anatomy reruns.

    2. Even Fat Freddy understood teevee is childish drivel that rots your brain.

  32. If the government doesn’t confiscate all the guns someone might end up getting shot.

  33. Here’s the ultimate Libertarian question for you. f ai am a healthy 25 – 50 yo person and I want to just get it over with and be immune for life (also avoid the inevitable waves of re infections that will happen util an effective vaccine is found), Why can’t i just go out and get the disease and stay inside for 14 days? I should be able to, and the only cure for the disease is to get the disease.

    1. It is not a libertarian question. Nor are the parameters known as to potential infectivity, the limitations of self imposed quarantine, or any risk you may pose to others.

      With this kind of infectious disease you need to think of the pathogen as a pool with hosts. Increase the number of hosts and it can persist and spread.

      Libertarian philosophy is political, not medical scientific. The best way to control spread is what we are doing. Come together as a community. We do not need the government for everything.

  34. My question is whether those agencies are going to go back to their inefficient ways once this crisis has passed. I’m guessing yes, unless they have a President (like this one) who tells them otherwise.

  35. The first thing we need ASAP is the elimination of the requirement of a physician’s prescription for a lab test of any kind!

    1. That’s pretty much been in the LP platform since 1972, along with abolishing all forms of prohibitionism. Them that reads, votes.

    2. That would be good.

      In the meantime this is not a dipstick pregnancy test you can get at Walgreens. It needs more expertise and equipment. I posted something from Roche about it.

      Supply is limited. Today our two major hospital systems began a drive up service in parking lots. People were waiting 3-5 hours to get the test with a doctors order.

      So not so simple. Eventually it would be great to just buy one.

  36. Found this today from a WHO task force.

    https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620306735.pdf

    One take home message.

    “Based on more than 500 genetic sequences submitted to GISAID (the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data), the virus has not drifted to significant strain difference and changes in sequence are minimal. There is no evidence to link sequence information with transmissibility or virulence of severe acute respiratory syndrome”

  37. Correction: TSA is a German acronym that stands for Transport Sozialist Arbeiterpartei. Instead of Berlin walls and sharpshoot-to-kill, its orders are to exploit God’s Own Prohibitionist laws against seeds and stems plus asset forfeiture to make sure the civilian airline industry goes the way of the First, Second, Fourth and Fifth Amendments.

    1. Cool story bro.

      No one gives a fuck about your bizarre references. So you can go back to jacking it to Gosnell’s baby murder porn stash.

  38. I keep waiting for the godforsaken market to fix it, but all the market does is collapse.

    Hey market! Where are you? How come you keep falling apart like a cheap suit in your moment of crisis?

    No market-based solutions yet? What’s wrong with you, market?

    1. It might be related to all the totalitarian shit downs of industry around the globe. The market doesn’t work well when it’s strangled by a bunch of authoritarian technocrats.

      So fuck off with your snarky bullshit.

  39. Even Fat Freddy understood teevee is childish drivel that rots your brain.

  40. I am making a good salary from home $1200-$2500/week , which is amazing, under a year back I was jobless in a horrible economy. I thank God every day I was blessed with these instructions and now it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with Everyone, Here is what I do. Follow details… Read more

  41. The slippery slop argument cuts both ways! Libertarians need to PUSH hard to keep as many of these temporary measures in place after this crap is all over, now that they’ve been shown to be useless to begin with.

  42. Warning, Reason. fb is blocking your important pieces that provide alternative views during this crisis. Contact them and protest! My posting of the Keith Whittington piece on bars was blocked–and I assure you, I had not added anything inflamatory. Sincerely, a conservative ally.

  43. Google Analytics is very important for digital marketing. Through Google Analytics, it is known that how much traffic is there on the website. This is Google’s free tool. Please login Google before opening Google Analytics. Then you click this link google analytics signup. https://www.webtricks4u.com/

  44. Nobody knows what a Libertarian is anymore. The dope smoking faction, the commie UBI faction, the Ron Paul alt right faction. No values, no morals just approximate approximations of wanton hedonism.

  45. Not sure what you libertarians are all exercised about; just keep listening to Jeffrey Epstein and you’ll be fine!

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.