Reason Roundup

Trump Confuses Nation With COVID-19 Address

Plus: A second person appears to be cured of HIV, cops can destroy your home for no reason and refuse to pay, and more...

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Televised Trump talk spreads confusion over U.S. response to coronavirus in Europe. There's so much noise surrounding COVID-19 right now that it's hard to know what to make of things. It doesn't help when the president can't even get his own policy details straight.

Last night, President Donald Trump announced on TV that the U.S. will suspend travel from some European countries for 30 days. "These restrictions will be adjusted subject to conditions on the ground," he said from the Oval Office, and "there will be exemptions for Americans who have undergone appropriate screenings."

But he didn't just announce this—he massively overstated the extent of his coronavirus containment plan.

The actual plan isn't deeply worrying. Whether or not it's a good idea to curb European travel, that hasn't been one of Trump's immigration goals, so ulterior motives probably aren't at work here. And should things get dicey, it's not like some of the most powerful countries in the world (and longtime American allies and trading partners) will just quietly take an attempt to extend the ban beyond what might be reasonable for public health.

But if you got a different impression from Trump's talk last night, you can only blame the president for that. Here are some details that got scrambled:

A lot of European countries are excluded from travel restrictions. But that's not what Trump said in his televised address. He implied that travel restrictions would apply to all European countries except the U.K.

That's not only a lot more extreme than the real plan; it made it seem like Trump was playing favorites. (The U.K. has been affected by COVID-19 to a similar degree as many countries purportedly included.) That, in turn, made the move seem more ominous.

According to the Department of Homeland Security, however, the ban applies only to Europe's Schengen Zone, where citizens of member countries (including outbreak-heavy countries such as Italy) are able to travel between one another relatively freely. The area includes a large number of countries (26 officially), but it is not all of Europe. Besides the U.K., it excludes Albania, Belarus, Bosnia, Croatia, Ireland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine, and around a dozen other countries.

Officials "clarified that the new travel restrictions would apply only to most foreign nationals who have been in the 'Schengen Area' at any point for 14 days prior to their scheduled arrival to the United States," reports the AP. "The White House said the zone has the highest number of confirmed COVID-19 cases outside of mainland China."

No trade ban. "These prohibitions will not only apply to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but other things as we get approval," Trump said last night. The White House later clarified that goods and trade were not included in the time-out:

Coronavirus treatment isn't free. The president kind of overpromised here:

Meanwhile, the administration is planning a bailout package for hotel, airline, and cruise ship companies. "This package isn't going to include everything," Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin said Wednesday. "This is round one. We'll be back for more."

Trump has also been floating a payroll tax cut, which is something he's been angling for long before this coronavirus outbreakwhich, by the way, the World Health Organization officially declared a pandemic yesterday.

In other coronavirus news: "Initial hopes that the public health consequences of the new coronavirus would be mild are fading," reports Reason's Ron Bailey:

The delay in rolling out a more comprehensive testing regime means that undiagnosed cases are rising. Estimates vary from a few thousand to as many as 50,000 infections among Americans.

At a congressional hearing [Wednesday] afternoon, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, suggested that COVID-19 is is considerably more dangerous than run-of-the-mill flu. He observed, "The flu has a mortality rate of 0.1 percent. This has a mortality rate of 10 times that. That's the reason I want to emphasize we have to stay ahead of the game in preventing this."

And "due to red tape, the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S. will be worse than it should have been," Bailey points out.

Schools around the U.S. continue to close, a slew of state governors are considering or enacting bans on big events, and the quarantining situation in some other countries, especially Italy, continues to get more intense.

"Although it seems unlikely that the United States would copy either China's approach or the milder but still draconian Italian model, the extent of state and federal quarantine powers is surprisingly unsettled," notes Reason's Jacob Sullum.


FREE MINDS

A man in London "has become the second person in the world to be cured of HIV," the BBC reports. "Adam Castillejo is still free of the virus more than 30 months after stopping anti-retroviral therapy."

Castillejo was treated with stem cells as part of treatment for cancer. An article published this week in The Lancet has more details.


FREE MARKETS

Can cops destroy your home for no good reason and then refuse to cover the damage? That's the issue at the center of a new Institute for Justice (IJ) case. Writes IJ Senior Attorney Robert McNamara:

When our client Shaniz West came home to find her house surrounded by local police looking for her ex-boyfriend, she did what the government probably hopes all citizens would do. She told them the truth (her ex wasn't there) but gave them permission to go inside to look for themselves.

The problem is that they didn't go inside—at least, not for a long time. Instead, they decided to besiege the house, repeatedly firing tear-gas grenades and destroying walls, ceilings, and essentially everything Shaniz owned. At the end of the siege, the police discovered what Shaniz had already told them: The ex-boyfriend wasn't there. Instead, they had spent the day bombarding a house that was empty except for Shaniz's dog, Blue.

Shaniz sued, arguing that she had given police consent only to go inside her house, not to blow it up. But she lost. She didn't lose because the courts held that consent to go into a house is consent to destroy it. She lost because no court had ever ruled in a case exactly like hers before. And because no court had explicitly considered these facts, qualified immunity applied.

IJ is asking the Supreme Court of the United States to take Shaniz's case and rule that qualified immunity cannot be used like this to strip basic protections for property rights.

In another case (both are part of the institute's Project on Immunity and Accountability), a family had their home destroyed by police who were chasing a shoplifter who had "randomly taken refuge [there] while fleeing the police," as IJ puts it in a press release. "The fugitive was apprehended, but the home was totaled." Hear homeowners Leo and Alfonsina Lech tell their story in this IJ video.


QUICK HITS

  • Coronavirus is about to shut down your daily lives and its time to face it, argues Tim Carney.
  • Good or bad idea?

  • FBI excuse doesn't cut it:

NEXT: School Canceled Because of Coronavirus? A Homeschooler Offers Some Tips

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  1. Televised Trump talk spreads confusion over U.S. response to coronavirus in Europe.

    Bottom line: go be eurotrash somewhere else.

    1. This critique is idiotic.

      If he had said “we are banning travel from the Schengen Zone”, the criticism would have been “who the hell knows what that is?”

      I had never heard that name before, so I can guarantee that 99% of the US population didn’t know it either.

      So he used a shorthand version and let the staff clarify the details. That’s how you communicate. He could have read off a list of countries and defined the Schengen Zone for everyone…. but that’s not really important or relevant. If you need to know the details you can find out. Most of us are not travelling from Europe or hosting a European national who is scheduled to travel here.

      If your only goal in life is to find a nit to pick, I suppose you’ll find one.

      1. Here is the interesting thing about Trump. He is terrible at reading from the teleprompter. Which is the opposite of Obama.

        If he had said he was banning travel from “certain EU countries, we’ll publish the list” then it would have been fine. But I think he kind of went off script and said the US is banning travel from the “EU, except UK”. That is confusing, you have to admit because he is adding a clarification, which indicates he isn’t using “shorthand”.

        The same thing with Trade. I am guessing that the teleprompter actually said we were NOT banning trade, but that in the heat of the moment, Trump just spoke incorrectly.

        I don’t think Trump is incompetent here. I just think he didn’t do well on this speech, and he really, really needed to do better.

        1. But the UK isn’t in the EU

        2. It’s not that confusing and there is a reason for the Schengen/UK differentiation.

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/12/ireland-britain-arent-part-trumps-travel-ban-this-is-why/

          This article makes an interesting point in that there is a lot more free travel between states in the Schengen area and, presumably, people in the area are at a greater risk of contracting the infection.

          1. I guess. Bur corona no care about Schengen.

            1. But Schengen is literally open borders. No visa, passport, border guards, gate, nothing. It makes crossing the border of Italy and Austria as arduous as crossing from North to South Dakota.

              1. Also, up there ENB and Boehm argue against a payroll tax cut.

                … They’re not even pretending to be libertarian anymore.

        3. I don’t think Trump is incompetent here. I just think he didn’t do well on this speech, and he really, really needed to do better.

          He didn’t do well on this speech. He’s made crappy decisions because, to him, it is more important that the decisions make him look good. This decision itself IS a bad decision because it is entirely irrelevant to any real problem.

          If ‘travel volume’ was itself a current problem, then it is entirely reasonable to just shut the airports down except for selected pre-approved flights or people who have test results (which would be a serious problem because it would turn test results from a public health concern into a travel document). Not to add a layer of bureaucracy there re ‘flights from UK are OK and Americans are OK but Schengenistan is off-limits’.

          But travel volumes are not a problem. Airports everywhere are empty. People do not want to get onto a closed environment like a plane for hours just like they no longer want to go on cruises. This is IRRELEVANT. And at this point, the Prez making irrelevant decisions is making BAD decisions. Esp since this decision is clearly of the ‘this will make me look good and strong and decisive against foreigners and is great panem et circenses for my base’.

          I said a couple weeks ago re a couple of early decisions that were flawed that I hoped he improved his decision-making cuz the time’s coming when those decisions will have to be fast and furious. Well guess what. That time is here and he’s making bad decisions. He is not remotely focused on the actual problem – the virus.

          1. At this point, you’re going to have to die from this plague to justify all the bleating you’ve done

            1. His tomb will be a big elaborate sepulcher with a carved relief of JFree battling Trump on one side and a Semitized corvid-19 virion on the other. “He warred against the Zionist Plague” it will read.

              1. LMFAO

            2. Hasn’t Trump been saying this is no big deal, right up until this address?

              Yet Trump never receives any blame from you guy, you attack those he’s finally acknowledging were right.

              1. Yeah I heard he said it was a hoax!

              2. “Hasn’t Trump been saying this is no big deal”

                No, but there are a lot of DNC party activists with bylines pretending that he did.

      2. I never assumed that Trump’s speech would provide all of the details; presidential speeches never do. If they tried to that would certainly cause confusion!

        So I don’t get the “confusion” argument. I’ll agree that Trump needs to work on delivering a prepared speech.

        1. It is not an argument; it is a senseless gripe. Never waste an opportunity to skewer Trump.

        2. Trump gave a very informative and reasoned speech and his responses are entirely measured and appropriate.

          Remember ENB and her ilk have been claiming for three years that Trump is insane and mentally unfit for office such that he is a threat to the Republic. Here we have an actual crisis of the sort that ENB and others assured us would result in disaster because of Trump’s unfitness and instability and Trump is showing himself to be the opposite of everything they claim he is. Instead of being honest with herself and the world about how wrong they are, ENB and the rest of the media pick nits and pretend it somehow means the nation should not believe their lying eyes.

          These people have lost their minds.

          1. //These people have lost their minds.//

            I disagree. They’re full of shit. They know they’re full of shit. They’re doing it anyway.

            1. I think it varies from person to person.

          2. Angling to be press secretary someday, John?

            He didn’t give a “very informative and reasoned speech.” And yes I watched the whole thing and no I didn’t get my opinion from CNN.

            Here’s what he did…misread from a teleprompter what was already a speech that was little more than an attempt to run a live campaign ad for his overblown, over-hyped sugar high of an economy. At least a third of the speech if not more was a campaign ad about how we have “the strongest economy ever” and him whining about “partisanship. And now he gets to play the “if you oppose my policies you want Americans to get sick and die” card, which I gotta admit is masterful after he himself just last week said it was nothing to worry about.

            It’s so obvious what happened here. He has not given a shit about the health or science aspects the whole time, in fact he’s been taking to Twitter regularly to chastise people for having any worries about it and the gist of his comments has effectively suggested that an “I am too tough to let this affect me” attitude will cure or prevent it.

            He let Donnie Jr. convince him that the whole thing was nothing but a Democrat hoax, and only considered its ramifications inasmuch as it was hurting the stock market. Until two days ago he was recommending on Twitter that the whole thing was overblown and might not even be “real.” Then finally when some conservative politicians came home sick from CPAC he was like “oh shit this might be real” and completely changes course overnight. And his calls for unity and bravery and all that were literally no more than thinly-veiled whining about everyone else. The speech was contradictory both internally and compared to what actually happened. and is happening in the implementation. But who cares, I mean, the hair looked good, right?

            So now that sycophants like you are entranced (I mean seriously listen to yourself, you sound breathless like you just witnessed the Gettysburg address or something) he gets to plug for a bunch of short term bailout packages to all his buddies, and if anyone opposes those they’ll be accused of “wanting the economy to fail.” Plus, this opens the floodgates for very many businesses (some legit, some very NOT legit) to get in line at the trough for that sweet coronavirus bailout money (which we all have to admit will be abused, to pretend otherwise shows lack of realism/honesty) and the base gets red meat “yeah we can keep out all them furriners from commie land yeehaw!”

            1. TLDR version:
              1)Trump gave zero shits about this and overall dismissed it until last night. The only prior concern he showed was a)over how he was perceived, and b)whether it hurt the stock market, which goes right back to a).

              2)The rambling, sleepy speech he gave (less fiery isn’t he, when he can’t rely on the old saws like “Lock her up!” or “Pocahantas!”) was factually inaccurate and was not, as John breathlessly exclaims, “very informative and reasoned speech.”

              Anyone who says “that’s fine the staffers will clean it up that’s good managing” is someone who read “Four-minute Manager” and “Art of the Deal” and thought that shit was genius. Not only was it inaccurate in several key details that sent people panicking to airline ticket counters, (or to get tests they can’t actually get), it was 10 minutes long. Roughly 7.5 minutes of those 10 were him repeating several versions of his riff (in true Trumpian fashion, aka all adjectives no facts) about how “amazing, best-ever, unbelievable, unprecedented” he, his staff, and his sugar-rush bailout/tax break temporary economy are. He could have given the same shitty speech in 5 minutes, actually been accurate about what the policies were, and spared us the campaign ad. But he didn’t. And here’s John acting like homie just laid down some epic speech.

              1. ….and how can anyone not realize that there is now gonna be a fat-ass trough at which companies will be lining up to get that sweet, sweet coronavirus bailout money. Which the “conservatives” here will praise as they complain about “welfare” every other day.

                We’ll hear about “Obama’s pallet of cash” 10000 times but not a peep about how every fuckstick in the world now just has to say “muh profits are gone cause of Democaratic fear mongering” and get a Coronavirus check. Which may or may not appear on the same day as their tariff bailout check.

        3. I don’t get the “confusion” argument

          It’s just ENB reiterating today’s JournoList talking points. If “confusion” doesn’t pan out, they’ll have another assertion for her tomorrow.

        4. I dare say the country was confused prior to his speech.

      3. The whole public commentary on this is mostly nitpicking from People With Important Opinions.

        Even in the worst case scenario, covid-19 is not the Bubonic plague, but people are making it sound like it is. Some older people who catch it and where the problems caused by the virus lead to complications and compound existing health conditions, they have a chance of dying. Possibly the death toll will be higher than that of the flu, possibly not. It will pass and most people will not know anyone who died from it. Eventually, a vaccine will be developed.

        Because it does have a chance of harming some people, people and relevant agencies have to take all of the proper responsibility that adults would take to prevent the spread of any illness.

        Everyone has been doing that to degree. Along the way, there have been some minor mistakes by the CDC that have been corrected. Many correct decisions. A lot of people doing overkill and panicking. TV networks reporting on it breathlessly, getting people to tune in for the latest news. Businesses and corporations spreading the word that they’re taking measures to deal with covid-19, because as we know, corporations care about our well-being. (Curiously, the safety measures they’re choosing don’t affect their bottom line, ie. Costco suspending free samples, but not the paid food court). Trump is of course “saying the wrong things”, whereas the People With Important Opinions on the Internet know the “right things he should be saying.” Because of course, Its OK to Be An Idiot On Twitter, But Not During A Pandemic.

        And maybe he is saying and doing some wrong things, from a strictly professional point of view. Hopefully it will cause no harm. In the end, he’ll still turn out to be right on the big picture, and covid-19 is not the Bubonic plague and will pass.

        1. In about 3 months Covid19 will be forgotten by the media and the chattering class will find something else to chatter about.

    2. Hello.

      Yeh. There’s a bit of a ‘keep the Jews, Italians and Irish’ vibe to this.

      When I saw the UK got mysteriously exempted despite cases there, I was perplexed. Mind you, Donnie is of German origin and I think the ban applies to them. So much for that conspiracy theory.

      1. That’s an easy one. Boris loves Trump.

    3. he ban applies only to Europe’s Schengen Zone, where citizens of member countries (including outbreak-heavy countries such as Italy) are able to travel between one another relatively freely. The area includes a large number of countries (26 officially), but it is not all of Europe.

      You ignorant, racist cunt, for most Americans those 26 countries are what they think about when they say Europe. Should the president rattle off all the 40+ countries in Europe?? Splitting hairs over how he said it is ridiculous, but expected from an air-headed bimbo like you ENB.

      1. Where was that racist? Or is that a disconnected claim?

        Also interesting for Ireland to not be European to the zeitgeist.

        1. stout > virus.

  2. No news today. See y’all tomorrow.

    1. MARKETS IMPLODING!!!

      No shit – this time it’s true.

    2. Markets have crashed some 16% since your last buy recommendation. Can you tell me when to buy again? I need to know when to add to these put contracts.

      1. Sell everything, and set the proceeds on fire. Use your hair to touch it off.

      2. Buy buy buy.

        1. Why do you celebrate that largest one-day market drop since 1987? After Trump’s fuckede ovalk office address. A stock market decline even worse (percentage) since 1929

          Why do you celebrate massive losses in nearly $30 TRILLION in the pensions of WORKERS??

          Why are you so giddy about Trump destroying even more TRILLIONS of investment capital?

          Trump Cuts Off Reporters’ Mics During Coronavirus Press Conference

          At his coronavirus national emergency press conference, Trump cut off reporters’ microphones so that they couldn’t ask follow up questions.

          The strategy of cutting off microphones didn’t prevent PBS’s Yamiche Alcindor from triggering Trump by asking him about his decision to close down the White House Pandemic Office

          He shut down the pandemic office in 2018

          Thank goodness THIS fiasco came on a Friday. No stock market for two days ,… but will he crash the futures market AGAIN? His oval office address was followed IMMEDIATELY by the CRASH of overnight stock futures ,,, followed by the Dow’s biggest one-day drop since 1987 (crashed over 10%)

          Can America survive this President?

  3. But he didn’t just announce this—he massively overstated the extent of his coronavirus containment plan.

    Public demanded a big desk to duck under for cover.

  4. Coronavirus treatment isn’t free. The president kind of overpromised here…

    Single payer!

  5. A man in London “has become the second person in the world to be cured of HIV,” the BBC reports.

    High five’s ass kicked by the COVID-19.

    1. The amusing part of it is that if you read the study, apparently he was undergoing an experimental treatment for a different disease (Hodgkin’s lymphoma) and it apparently cured his HIV also.

      If not for Bush’s stupid stem cell moratorium, we might’ve already had some cool treatments like this available publicly.

      1. Read it again!

      2. Why don’t you list all the cures we have gotten from fetal stem cells which are the only ones affected by the Bush ban.

        It turns out that all the stem cell therapies that actually work come from adult stem cells.

  6. And the best part of having the police destroy your home is the insurance probably has a clause about government action/civil insurrection/acts of God to use as an escape hatch.

    1. In the fleeing shoplifter case, the insurer actually did pay the claim, but only on the insured amount of the home. The owner did not insure the house for its full value, presumably to save money on premiums and/or to meet only the minimal requirements of a mortgage agreement.

      1. And then your rate goes up.

  7. Coronavirus is about to shut down your daily lives and its time to face it

    ENB CAN POST ROUNDUPS FROM QUARANTINE.

    1. Unfortunately.

  8. Confused by the actions of Putin’s Puppet? Professor Heather Cox Richardson has a compelling theory.

    I cannot make sense of this. Is he deliberately crashing the American economy and dividing us from Europe? If so, is this Putin’s work, yet again? A final gift as Trump loses control of the country?

    Literally everything Drumpf does must be understood in the context of #TrumpRussia, the second biggest scandal in world history. (It used to be #1 but then #TrumpUkraine happened.)

    #LibertariansForGettingToughWithRussia

    1. There is just no end to the madness!

  9. Can cops destroy your home for no good reason and then refuse to cover the damage?

    Government does not produce anything of value. All it does is destroy.

  10. Gotta say. Many have been hoping for Trump’s Katrina moment, and I think they finally got it.

    By Katrina moment, I mean some disaster that would always have deaths and/or major disruption to peoples lives, no matter what the government response. And then the press finds every little thing that went wrong, implying (as Baily does above with his testing assertion) that if only a competent government/president were in charge, this disaster wouldn’t have happened. Then on top of that, the president/government heads make some stupid statements that allow the press to declare that the leader is detached from reality.

    1. And, like with Katrina, local and state officials who will be far more responsible for mistakes and causing peoples’ deaths will get away with it because the press is too busy blaming the president (i.e. Ray Nagin, who is currently sitting in prison on like 30 charges or bribery and corruption, yet was reelected after Katrina)

    2. Just to specifically unpack the angle the press is taking. According to the NYT article, if Red Tape had not prevented that washington doctor from testing, we’d have known in early February that many, many people in Washington already had the virus.

      I hate to break it to people, but if Washington general pop already had cases of Wu Flu that early, then it was already too late. Remember that for every person tested, 5-7 people don’t seek medical care because their symptoms are so light. If you live on the west coast, it is likely you have already been in contact with COVID. Testing back in late January wouldn’t change this, because when only one out of 5 infected are getting tested, the virus cannot be contained.

      This was going to happen whether we had testing or not.

      1. So … what you’re saying is that you’re against testing and want people to die? Otherwise, admit Trump is evil … and wants people to die.

        ^
        Literally the conversation I have been forced to have over and over and over again with morons.

        1. I know. I was in the discussion yesterday. It is silly.

        2. If “literally” means the absolute opposite of reality. You refused to acknolwedge that testing by it’s very nature reduces the expansion of the virus. If I knew I had the coronavirus, I would self-quarantine. Meaning less people are infected. How is that hard to understand?

          I guess your assumption that every person is like Trump and goes to work sick so he can get better. I reject that assumption as not possible.

          1. //You refused to acknolwedge that testing by it’s very nature reduces the expansion of the virus.//

            I refuse to acknowledge that because it is not true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

            1. He seems to have latched onto this bizarre idea that testing someone somehow prevents the disease from spreading. It is akin to thinking insurance is the same thing has health care.

              Jfree is the sort of interesting lunatic that reason used to attract regularly. He will occasionally say some very smart and interesting things. He will more often, however, latch onto some crazy idea and take it to its full extreme no matter how often people explain to him it is nuts.


              1. He will more often, however, latch onto some crazy idea and take it to its full extreme no matter how often people explain to him it is nuts.

                So…a libertarian?

                Joking. Well, sort of.

                1. Well played, sir; very well played.

          2. “You refused to acknolwedge that testing by it’s very nature reduces the expansion of the virus”

            We know from the facts of that article that the virus was already in the General Population. Of Washington. If Washington was already infected, then so was Los Angeles and Silicon Valley, and very likely multiple east coast cities.

            This virus was out of containment and out of control by late January, and testing 10 – 50% of the infected (i.e. the people who showed symptoms and decided to get tested) was not going to measurably slow this virus.

          3. “…testing by it’s very nature reduces the expansion of the virus….”

            Beyond idiotic.

          4. When opining about trump, you must first arrange every assumption toward the most favorable or excusable condition for trump. Like a house of cards. Otherwise, you are a dirty leftist.

            An anthropologist would be fascinated by this tribe.

            1. Or, try to be balanced. When you’re not a fickle partisan hack, it isn’t that difficult.

              1. It helps to not be dishonest too. But he can’t do that.

        3. Sorry you’ve been forced to repeat that conversation over and over. You should try punching people in the face more often — I’ve found that habit tends to keep unwanted conversations to a minimum.

        4. well, hopefully, those people will be cleansed by the Kung Flu.

      2. “This was going to happen whether we had testing or not.”

        That is a very real possibility.

        Not that that stopped Bailey (the ‘science’ guy here) from definitively declaring otherwise.

        Yeah sure.

      3. Remember that for every person tested, 5-7 people don’t seek medical care because their symptoms are so light.

        Yes. And this is also known which is why in that early stage, the epidemiological protocol would be that everyone who does test positive (likely serious) gets their contacts traced. Those contacts in turn ‘get the chance’ to be tested so they know whether they are infected. And followed and contained in turn. I forget the techincal term – but it is the totally standard protocol at that stage of a potential disease outbreak. It is so standard that places like Singapore that incorporate disease outbreaks stuff in their militia service system use that protocol to determine when their DORSCON system moves from one signal to a different signal. So when they upgrade signals – eg Singapore upgraded from ‘green’ to ‘yellow’ on January 26 I think – their militia and reserves trained in that specific disease outbreak protocol know what to do and where to muster to get supplies and such. And they are the ones who then make the neighborhood contacts.

        Now I never expected a response like that here because we don’t do militia anymore and certainly not for anything that doesn’t involve 100% guns. BUT I was honestly quite surprised that we weren’t even taking that next step in that protocol to broaden the testing as part of tracing contact trails. We’ve spent decades lecturing the world how to do this.

        If you live on the west coast, it is likely you have already been in contact with COVID.

        This is just total horseshit. It is not ‘likely’ yet. It is almost certainly quite unlikely now. But in fact it is completely UNKNOWN because – we didn’t test. We are just now (a month late) beginning to test for unknown clusters.

        Will it BECOME likely. Oh yeah. And when it does you will not remotely remain in your stupid bubble that ‘this is just the flu’.

        1. “It is not ‘likely’ yet. It is almost certainly quite unlikely now. But in fact it is completely UNKNOWN because – we didn’t test. We are just now (a month late) beginning to test for unknown clusters.
          Will it BECOME likely. Oh yeah. And when it does you will not remotely remain in your stupid bubble that ‘this is just the flu’.”

          This is anti logical

          1. It is not anti-logical. You just don’t remotely understand exponential growth.

        2. That response system with its testing in affected neighborhoods/locations in Singapore is also precisely why they only have 91 cases – and more recovered/discharged than current cases – and why almost all their new cases are imported. They got good info early on the outbreak. Acted on that info. And thus made better decisions.

          It is also why they apparently have the first antibody test in the world. Which long-term is much better than an antigen test

        3. Biggest difference with the flu is there isn’t a vaccine yet; there will be. Until there is safety measures are warranted.

          Other than that, all indications are that it isn’t totally different than the flu. Somewhat different in details. But mortality rates have been calculated based on high-risk cases and medical professionals expect the number would go down to less than 1% with increased testing. Deaths have been higher among high-risk populations, because deaths are based on complications that compound existing health conditions, not the effects of virus alone. Contagion rate is supposed to be higher and closer to the common cold if I heard correctly, but that still doesn’t make it the Bubonic plague.

          Regardless of whether everything Trump has ever said on the subject was strictly correct from a professional point of view, he was right on the big picture: this is not the Bubonic plague, and will pass.

        4. Oh yeah. And when it does you will not remotely remain in your stupid bubble that ‘this is just the flu’.

          This is absolutely correct.

          You’ll kick yourself when you find yourself saying ‘This whole fucking thing was about a cold>

    3. You should read the Bailey article. It doesn’t mention Trump once. It does criticize the CDC/FDA for their decision to directly control the testing process instead of taking a more hands off approach and allow medical facilities to develop the best test possible. Your basic libertarian, anti-central planning argument; not a wrong government in power argument.

      How Government Red Tape Stymied Testing and Made the Coronavirus Epidemic Worse

      1. I read the article, and you will see my comments in it. And the article was wrong. Fuck, even the HEADLINE is wrong.

        “How Government Red Tape Stymied Testing and Made the Coronavirus Epidemic Worse”

        Bailey is usually precise with his wording, but here he is just off the deep end. The DEFAULT SCENARIO is that the government does nothing. NO testing. NO travel bans. NO information. Just old people and chronic smokers dropping dead left and right for no understandable reason.

        The fact that we didn’t have enough tests for 3-4 weeks didn’t make that situation WORSE. To make it worse, the testing would have had to INCREASE the infections, or the mortality rate over the default scenario. What Bailey actually means is that the lack of tests meant that the epidemic is worse than some hypothetical scenario where the government does everything write with limited knowledge of the current facts- i.e. a scenario that every libertarian should know doesn’t exist.

      2. If they aren’t going to read it as they voraciously comment on the inadequacies of the article in the ARTICLE’s comments section, what makes you think they are going to read it a day later? Even if it’s linked. You optimist you.

      3. Even fucking Bailey himself admitted he made a giant leap in his reasoning. Go back and read the comments.

    4. Fundamental truth: people are emotional, biased idiots.

      A revealing experiment (that admittedly would accomplish very little): ask people on the street how they feel about actions taken by the Trump administration, but for half the encounters attribute the very same actions to Obama or Pelosi/Schumer. Wanna bet how the approvals would flip?

      1. I’ve been saying for a while now. It’s not about the what, it’s about the who. That’s how you know people are not as principled as think they are.

    5. I’d like for everyone who is complaining about how Trump is handling the covid-19 crises tell me how their preferred models like Angela Merkel, Macron, etc, are handling it better.

      Not only do we have fewer cases on an absolute basis, but we have about 1/7 the cases as France or Germany on a % of population basis, we have about 7.5 cases per million population, they are up north of 50.

  11. If governments refuse to provide these potentially life saving details…

    BREAKING NEWS: The Libertarian Case for the Surveillance State, Travel Papers

  12. Court: Teenagers edit videos all the time, and “presumably, most of these teenagers have fewer resources than the United States government.”

    But more skill and motivation.

  13. Do you have a First Amendment right to a Slayer-themed license plate?

    That’s it, I’m making my own BUFFY plate.

    1. LOL, that’s what I thought they meant at first, given that it’s California. I’d be surprised if somebody doesn’t already have a “Sunnydale” plate of some sort (SYDALE or something like that).

    2. Heh. My girlfriend has had GRRARGH as her plate for years. One year we pulled into our DragonCon hotel, right behind another car that had the plate GRRRARG.

  14. Instead, they had spent the day bombarding a house that was empty except for Shaniz’s dog, Blue.

    The real target.

  15. Of you are under the age of 70 you have virtually nothing to worry about. But please keep panicking.

    1. Please stop spreading misinformation.

      1. Average age if death in Italy is 81. Chance of death from Covid 19 for those under 60 is comparable to the flu.

        You push misinformation like trump called covid19 was a hoax. I’ll stick with the numbers.

      2. And just to make you look fucking stupid…

        https://i.imgur.com/eGJ3ujS.jpg

        Image from the CDC.

        1. Respectfully JesseAZ, and I say that honestly because I usually like your posts, I don’t think that graph shows there is virtually nothing to worry about. That graph shows that the Coronavirus is roughly 20x more lethal than a standard flu for people under 49. For those over 49 it’s harder to tell, but 10x would be a reasonable guess. Meaning that if COVID-19 were to become as pervasive as the flu in the US we would have somewhere between 500,000 and 1 million deaths annually (exceeding cancer and heart disease).

          I can’t believe I am agreeing with DOL on this, but it absolutely is something you should worry about. The worst part about it is the incubation period so individuals can “feel fine” while going to work, the gym, kid’s basketball games, whatever and spreading it around without knowing.

          1. You are using the CFR rate in that graph while the flu has a wider accepted rate of known infections, or at least estimates of infection. It is basically a pessimistic graph vs an average estimate.

      3. And more, even chose a lefty source for you, where they break it down by age.

        https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/coronavirus-mortality-rate-lower-than-we-think.html

        You’re a lying uninformed idiot.

        1. Jesse mad.

          So I should let my kids go to daycare, get corona virus, and then pass it to their grandparents?

          If I had diabetes, heart disease, obesity, or other immune deficiencies, I should get corona virus? No worries right?

          There are a lot of people other than geriatrics who are at risk. From the CDC press statement on the 9th:

          “People with diabetes, heart disease, lung disease and other serious underlying conditions are more likely to develop ‘serious outcomes, including death,’ she said.”

          So stop spreading misinformation, please. This is a time for caution.

          1. //“People with diabetes, heart disease, lung disease and other serious underlying conditions are more likely to develop ‘serious outcomes, including death,’ she said.”//

            Which is literally the case for every infectious disease, ever.

            Time to panic.

          2. So it’s like every other sickness ever, if you’re already in poor health it’s gonna be worse for you.

            Good to know, keep up the good work buddy.

          3. For a guy who claims to not be Jeff you sure make strawman arguments just like Jeff.

            1. For a guy who claims he knows what a strawman is, you sure don’t know what a strawman is.

          4. Jesse is right that the person under 70 has little to fear for HIM or HERSELF. But you are correct that that is a pretty self-centered approach since you could get the virus and spread it to someone who spreads it to someone … who spreads it to someone with a compromised immune system.

            I have 2 people with compromised immune systems in my immediate family, and as soon as the virus was detected here in Ohio we went from extra hand-washing to full isolation mode.

            This also shows that testing DOES slow the spread of the virus, and potentially reduces the number of deaths. It’s like an early warning system – canary in the coal mine or smoke detector – that tells the rest of the people to take precautions. Anyone who thinks that testing doesn’t help is irrational.

            1. Did you or anyone in your family get tested? If not, and you’re still taking sensible precautions, then it isn’t the testing that’s making the difference. Your comment illustrates perfectly that testing, in and of itself, doesn’t do much.

            2. I have 2 people with compromised immune systems in my immediate family, and as soon as the virus was detected here in Ohio we went from extra hand-washing to full isolation mode.

              Anyone who thinks that testing doesn’t help is irrational.

              Not to downplay any medical maladies that may’ve befallen these people, but how exactly do you know their immune systems are compromised? I only ask because, AFAIK, outside of a few specific diseases, there’s no broad empirical test for “compromised immune system”.

              I frequently hear people, including medical professionals, say things like “I have allergies and am taking anti-histamines, so my immune system is compromised.” without even the slightest bit of evidence to back up anything they’ve said.

            3. “This also shows that testing DOES slow the spread of the virus”

              No.

              Your statement is the equivalent to “smoke detectors put out fires.”

              As you more correctly note, it is the change in behaviors that slows transmission. Just as a change in behaviors is what puts out a fire.

              1. Is this statement true, or not:

                “Of you are under the age of 70 you have virtually nothing to worry about.”

                It is not true. Definitely not true for 45% of Americans with underlying health issues.

                And do you know what a straw man is? Because I don’t see one.

                1. Fucking squirrels.

                2. “So I should let my kids go to daycare, get corona virus, and then pass it to their grandparents?”

                  Strawman, non sequitur, call it whatever the fuck you want Jeff, it’s your signature move, we’ve seen it too much to not recognize it and know who is doing it.

            4. Irrationality is the name of the game around here. Because trump could be criticized for lack of testing, they’ve now convinced themselves that knowing who has corona and who doesn’t wouldn’t be helpful. Of course, actual experts all say the opposite, but part of this irrationality is an intense, compulsive dismissal of scientists and experts.

              1. Only someone as stupid as you are could think you need to be tested to know to stay home and away from public gatherings during a pandemic. You are without doubt one of the most dishonest people on earth. But at some point I think you lied so long you stopped knowing what was a lie and stopped understanding what the truth was. That combined with your not being very bright to begin with has made you profoundly stupid and capable of actually believing things like that you have to be tested to know to stay away from personal contact and large public gatherings during a pandemic.

                your mind should be put in a museum as a warning to future generations.

                1. Being dishonest is part of his core character. I don’t really know him enough to conclude he’s a sociopath, but it’s definitely probable.

                  1. R Mac, you and John can’t even specify what lie I have told.

                2. “You are without doubt one of the most dishonest people on earth.”

                  Says the Trump supporter, somehow unironically.

          5. So I should let my kids go to daycare, get corona virus, and then pass it to their grandparents?

            Is forcing kids to visit their grandparents a symptom or even potential etiology of the disease? Rabies makes you foam at the mouth, COVID-19 makes you visit the elderly?

            1. Multi generational households don’t exist in pandemics?

              1. And you are so stupid you need to be tested and told you have it before taking precautions against giving it to the people you live with. And you also don’t understand that testing only tells you if you have it right then. If you get it the next day, the test you take today does you no good.

                So even if you are tested, you still have to act like you have it around older people because you might contract it after the test. Your stupidity really leaves me speechless sometimes. It is astounding how stupid you are and the things you will believe.

                1. We have to hope Lying Jeffy never gets a test at this point. Cuz evidently if he tests clear, he’s gonna go around coughing on old ladies.

                2. If it makes you feel better, DOL, John is less likely to fling names around and constantly talk about how smart he is when he posts on the Volokh boards. Go there if you want to see how sad it is when he has to try and make real arguments instead of his method on Reason boards which is 90% ad hominem and 10% “appeal to authority” with himself as the authority (because, as he will tell you ten times in this thread and most others he IS of course the SMARTEST PERSON IN THE WORLD. But he knows here on this board his cheer squad will show up and argue about Kirkland en masse long enough to distract from the fact that his posts are 85% puffery about how awesome he is and how stupid everyone else is.

                  1. I’m not on the Volokh boards. You guys really have quite the rich imaginary world.

              2. Multi generational households don’t exist in pandemics?

                So, without a test, you’re keeping your kids home from daycare, segregating your multi-family household, playing retarded both on and off the internet, or some combination of the 3?

                1. Jesse said I have nothing to worry about. That all these precautions are hysterics. The testing is another issue.

          6. “”So I should let my kids go to daycare, get corona virus, and then pass it to their grandparents? “”

            The regular flu could kill the grandparents. So why not do this every flu season?

            1. The other thing that doofus fails to consider is that having test kits will cause people to go to the ER and their doctors to get tested. Doing that will spread the disease even further as people give it to each other in the ER or their doctor’s office. Worse, they will give it to healthcare providers.

              Most people will feel mild or no symptoms from this stuff. But dumb asses like Jeff here will all run to the ER and give it to their doctors and sick people because they think getting tested will somehow protect them from the virus. And a good number of them will probably contract it at the ER or right after they walk out of the ER and go spread it some more because they tested negative and think they are clear.

              People like Jeff is why public health is such a difficult field. How do you plan for dealing with a population where millions of people are this stupid?

              1. The death toll of this seems to not be important to the panickers. You’d think we’d have a hundred dead by now and not a third of that.

                1. Jesus Christ can you even math bro? This is like the “more white people get shot by cops than black people” argument (and it’s reliably made by the same people, what a coincidence!). It’s not the TOTAL NUMBER that is significant, it is the RELATIVE PERCENTAGE. Holy crap.

                  1. Or like yourself not normalizing by crime rate…

                    1. I have never once seen you directly address an argument as it stands. At least based upon what we know at this point, probably the most significant difference between this virus and the traditional flu (I mean in terms of result, not makeup, I don’t pretend to be a doctor that can explain the super techy parts) is that in relative terms it is much more deadly. If an equal raw number of people contracted both diseases, the percentage of deaths from COVID-19 would be far higher (based on what data we have now). How can you possibly contradict that?

                      But I’ll bite on your lame dodge too. Funny how crime rates have a way of tracking along with who the system decides to go after, isn’t it? In my hometown, which was suburban/rural mix and 98% white, we got caught all the time by the cops for stupid teenager pranks (including for example, scaring passerby with toy guns) that got us a warning and sent home. If we were black kids on a playground in Chicago, I suspect the results would have been different. Nice try though.

          7. “”This is a time for caution.””

            This I agree with. But what I’m seeing is beyond caution.

          8. You should take all the same precautions medical professionals suggest you take with the flu during the flu season. Most people don’t. Medical professionals say we should all take flu shots, wash hands all the time, avoid crowds. The average person ignores all this advice and just goes on with his daily life.

            Because of the novelty of the virus and lack of vaccine there is enough reason to listen this time and do things You’re Supposed to Do Anyway.

            If you happen to catch the virus and don’t have any serious health conditions, all indications are still that you’re going to live though.

    2. March.12.2020 at 9:48 am
      Of you are under the age of 70 you have virtually nothing to worry about. But please keep panicking.

      What a thing to say.

      I called my mother today. I call her every other day lately. She is 78 years old. I love my mother Jesse. She likes to go out to the grocery often and other things. So best for her to stock up and go out as little as possible. We also have family members overseas who will be affected.

      My best friend since we were kiddos has stage 4 cancer. We are trying to plan a trip together. Older guy road trip whatever. He is at risk. Bravest man I know.

      Virtually nothing. Yup here in the North Coast life goes in. Wife and I are in good health in the 60 range. Only what, 3% chance of serious illness. It is here now and she deals with the public. I work from home. When she goes out it is on my mind.

      Panic. I am a medico. Disease does not cause panic in me.

      Instead of attacking each other the community here could come together to share what we know. We don’t need the government for that.

      1. Oh. We should all change our lives because your mother doesnt want to change hers. Go fuck yourself.

        1. You truly are a cretinous piece of shit.

        2. +10000

          1. Celebrates a massive, and self-evident lie. Again.

        3. Fucking liar. As always?

  16. Former Kamala Harris press secretary Ian Sams knows the true motivation for the travel ban.

    We’re weeks past the point when suspending travel from Europe could’ve even remotely been seen as a strong measure to prevent coronavirus’ spread. This is Stephen Miller orchestrated xenophobic sleight of hand. We need solutions for the crisis we’re facing at home right now.

    Some people are unaware of this, but the most hardcore white nationalists like Stephen Miller are also xenophobic against Europeans.

    #OpenBorders
    #(EvenDuringAPandemic)

    1. Yeah, the last thing a white nationalist would want is for white people to immigrate.

    2. They had something similar on CNN last night – but even more ironic. They were complaining that the travel ban didn’t go far enough and needed to include places with brown people. Cracked me up.

      1. Here in Seattle there was a news story this morning about “evidence of backlash and harassment toward Asians in our area. Ok…..

        The story went on to provide not even one example of “backlash and harassment”, but did manage 3 (!) admonishments that the (terrible white) people doing the harassing had no “evidence to believe that Asians are responsible for the virus”.

        They were so busy virtue signaling that they forgot to tell us about the “harassment”. Haha. Fun times.

        1. The perpetrators could not be identified because their giant novelty MAGA hats obscured their faces.

    3. The European countries exempted from this travel ban coincide largely with Trump resorts.

      By exempting Americans returning from even the same banned countries … is there no bottom to this President’s stupidity?

  17. And because no court had explicitly considered these facts, qualified immunity applied.

    God bless catch-22.

  18. They’re coming after Trump for everything he does and doesn’t do in regards to the coronavirus as well as everything he says or doesn’t say. They’re just hoping to use the virus against him in an election year, and if Trump wins reelection despite their best efforts at smearing everything he thinks or doesn’t think about the virus, it’ll be even funnier than when he won last time.

    P.S. It’s not like the media can propel Biden to a win by focusing on the issues. Biden’s stance on the Green New Deal and Medicare for All are only centrist in relation to Sanders. Of course the news media will try to exploit this virus–just like they’ll exploit a pile of dead bodies in the aftermath of a school shooting. They’re ghouls, and if a million Americans die in this epidemic, we’ll get to see just how ghoulishly low they can go.

    1. He’s the President, that’s what happens to Presidents. If he doesn’t like it, he shouldn’t have taken the job.

      1. Its what happens to Presidents the media doesn’t like.

        Obama urging calm, limiting travel to the US from Europe

        This would be the headline today w/o the 22nd amendment.

        1. The President takes credit for every good thing that happens. The President gets blamed for every bad thing that happens. That’s the way it’s always been.

          When the President takes credit for the good things, the people that don’t like the President will go on and on about how the President really had no effect on the good thing. When the President gets blamed for the bad things, the people that do like the President will go on and on about how the President really had no effect on the bad thing. That’s the way it’s always been.

          1. We’re talking about what the media is doing, not what the politicians are doing.

            Same action, same situation, two different headlines

            1. Who cares what the media has to say about anything? It’s all just bullshit fake news, right? Why get so worked up about what a bunch of morons on the TV or the Internet have to offer? Why is there this urge to defend the President?

              1. So now you admit the media is biased. Thank you.

                1. Yes, of course they are. Any person with a brain knows this. News media hasn’t been about news since at least Bill Clinton’s time. It’s all about confirming biases now because that’s what people want so that’s what people get.

                2. Unreason sends in $parkY to admit that the media is biased but also its all legit pro and cons with Trump criticisms.

                  HAHA. Unreason is so sad.

                  1. whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh
                    He ridiculed you!

              2. Because the media is unfairly and mindlessly attacking the government’s response to the virus and spreading irrational panic.

                1. And you’re going to put and end to that, right?

                  1. And you’re just fine with it, right?

                    1. I can live with it because nothing I do is going to change it. But by all means, keep freaking out about how the media hates you and everything you like.

              3. Because Orange Man Good?

              4. The Prez is being unfairly and irrationally criticized. He is often talking though his hat, but in this case he seems to be taking responsible steps – neither panicking nor denying the seriousness. Nitpicking these is not very helpful.

                1. Literally two days ago he was on Twitter picking on anyone who thought it was real, then Ted Cruz gets a sniffle at CPAC and the economy really starts to crash so he goes 180. Get real. And for those who say Dems are politicizing this….try to watch that whole speech and convince me that it wasn’t a campaign ad. The actual true, actionable information in it was few and far between, it was mostly rah rah about how we have the “best economy ever” and are about to inject yet more sugar high bailout money.

              5. In response to a post complaining about the media, you say “Who cares what the media has to say about anything”.

                Come on man, don’t be like Jeff.

          2. Hey, remember when thousands of people died from H1N1 on Obama’s watch and the stock market crashed and toilet paper became impossible to purchase because of a media induced panic?

      2. Oh right, like the rough treatment Obama got from the media.
        Hardball questions like: “Gee Obama, how do you get anything done with these nasty Republicans?”

        1. Are you honestly saying that Obama never got any criticism from anyone ever?

          1. Are you honestly hoping anyone takes that strawman seriously?

            1. You really should sit it out if you can’t follow along, you crusty old potato.

              1. Shitbag, you should really try an honest argument for once.
                Need help with that strawman? I’m sure turd will be more than happy to help a brother ignoramus.

                1. I think you’ve been subjected to shit fumes for a bit too long.

          2. From anyone ever? Absurd. From anyone in the media or employed by a news organization? Certainly.

    2. Well said, Ken.

      The new motto at Reason is “Everything Trump does is wrong.”

      1. Not new, unless you mean they’re replacing “Orange Man Bad” with it.

        1. Yeah, I was thinking it’s just the next step in recovery from TDS. Everything he did was Hitleresque, then it was Russian puppetesque, then it was collusive and illegal, then it was quid-pro-quo, we’re finally getting to the point where it’s he can only do no right.

          Probably sometime in 2022 we’ll get to the point where “He didn’t make the best decision but the decision he did make wasn’t the worst or even really all that terrible in the grand scope of decisions made by Presidents.”

    3. This will be a fading memory in a month, let alone in November. No, the media cartel and the banking cartel will collude to crash the economy with the assistance of the federal reserve to effectuate Trump’s defeat in November. But since they decided to run the least electable candidate in the Democratic field, even that probably won’t work

      1. You really think Biden is less electable than Warren? Bloomie? Steyer? Harris? etc.

  19. “so ulterior motives probably aren’t at work here”

    Asides like these make Reason look fucking stupid.

    1. I’m sorry that non cult members find it remarkable when there isn’t an obvious ulterior motive at play with your cult daddy.

      Get fucky with immigration and trade policy, people will start to doubt your given motivations. Muslim ban oops, that’s a “travel ban”. Woops, deported another american citizen. Oh well, browns deserve it. Let’s go after vietnamese grandmas now! They’re a threat to national security, just like Canadian steel.

      See what I mean? This is why a president shouldn’t lie constantly. No one believes statements from trump admin on any topic, including hurricane path predictions, because trump is never truthful.

      Anyone ever read The Boy Who Cried Wolf to you? Go upstairs and ask your mom, nicely, to read it to you.

      1. Kill yourself, fuckwad.

        1. Geraje, I keep telling you lazy baby fascists to get your fat asses off of your rascal scooters and do something about it.

          1. I am not a murderer, or a violent person. Suicide is a deeply personal choice, and it takes strength. You are brave, and strong, and I know I can trust you to make the right decision, for yourself and everyone else.

          2. I keep telling you I’ll happily eviscerate you and jerk off with your bodily fluids at the time and place of your choosing. Name it pussy.

      2. You realize this makes you look stupid right?

        You go in assuming trump always has an ulterior motive. That makes you the partisan. Not those who take actions or information based on facts on hand.

        You literally admit you are not objective. And attempt to demean those who may be.

        Thank you for admitting it.

        1. I guess Jesse forgets all prior interactions with people when he deals with them. I guess credit reports are partisan, too.

          You’re ridiculous. If someone lies to you, over and over, you should expect them to lie again.

          Seriously, go ask your mom, NICELY, to read my book recommendation to you. There’s a lesson in there that you are still having a hard time with.

          1. “If someone lies to you, over and over, you should expect them to lie again.”

            Lol.

            1. Self awareness is weak in DOL.

          2. Don’t worry, we do.

      3. By the way jeff… for someone who claims to not be a leftist you sure rely on a lot of leftist talking points. Cultists huh? The same adjective choice journalist was pushing a few weeks back? Repeating wapo lie count as fact. Still pushing the trump tower pinging a russian bank nonsense. You sure do push leftist talking points non stop.

        Since mikey is gone I’m going to just call you neutral Jeff.

        1. My friends in Massachusetts don’t think they’re leftists either because in their world, they are moderates and centrists. They’re almost all Bernie Bro’s and Warren fans.

          1. Damn easterners ruin the state for everyone. We have a Republican governor doncha know? That means we’re unbiased.

        2. And I’ll call you “Virginal Tulpa”.

          1. Shut up Jeff. Everyone knows it is you. Just pick a screen name and live with it. If everyone loathing you and stomping on your arguments bothered you, you wouldn’t be so stupid. So, why can’t you just be honest and stop pretending anyone but you believes the bullshit you put out.

            And the fact that you live in MA makes me think you are Joe from Lowell skulking back into the board. If you are, you are even dumber now than you were then.

            1. If he wasn’t a faggot ass pussy he’d have stuck with his original cytotoxic account, but after how badly he got humiliated when Hillary lost he slunk away like the dejected faggot that he is and reemerged with 10 sock puppet accounts all sharing the same verbal tics, neuroses, and eccentricities and hoped no one would notice.

            2. I’m not Jeff. And by “everyone” I assume you mean your fellow brown shirted conspiratarians. Everyone doesn’t care what they think, anyway.

      4. “Get fucky with immigration and trade policy, ”

        You mean like setting the record for deportations? Or ratcheting up e-verify enforcement on employers?

        1. No, he means hurting his feelings with mean words.

      5. “”Anyone ever read The Boy Who Cried Wolf to you?”‘

        Is that about how liberals made a big issue out of everything a president did to the point people quit listening?

        1. Yeah, they have overplayed every minor issue so that if Trump really does something Impeachment-worthy the public won’t be paying attention.

          Let the hate flow through you!!

  20. How is it that Trump gets all the grief for Coronavirus and President Xi gets none?

    1. China owns US media

      1. More likely is that our reporting is very US focused, especially at Reason.

        1. Yeah, that’s more likely. That’s why Tiananmen Square never happened either.

          1. And there aren’t a million people in an open air prison in Western China either.

            1. And the media is scolding everyone who refers to it as the “wuhan virus” or notes its origin in China, while praising China’s response

              1. And talking about the Spanish flu isn’t racist, for some reason.

    2. Because Trump hasn’t yet figured out he can just round up anybody who criticizes him and have things done to them to make them stop criticizing him. He is literally Hitler, after all, he should start acting like it. Kill a few million people, send a few million off to labor camps, imprison a lot more, and people will learn to stop talking shit about him. At least it might teach them what a literal Hitler is.

      1. He could at least start giving speeches in a military uniform.

  21. More bad economic news.

    Charles Koch current net worth: $51.4 billion

    Recall that Reason.com frequently criticized Drumpf’s economic policies even when our benefactor had a $58,000,000,000 to $62,000,000,000 net worth. Now because of the #TrumpVirus, Mr. Koch is down over $10 billion this year.

    #DrumpfDepression

  22. ok another confusion made by your majesty Trump if there’s no -et in the end of his last name. like, you know – trumpet. some musical instrument known to make loud noise or music if use in right way.

    1. Because Biden and his dementia would be better? Clinton and her power mad grab for empresses is better still.

      Grow up asswipe.

  23. So I was just at Walmart and all the tp for our bungholes was gone except one brand. If your shit doesn’t sell in an apocalypse might want to rethink your approach.

    1. Their marketing slogan was “Now with 10% fewer splinters!”

    2. Freakin’ hilarious.

    3. Your asshole wouldn’t be clean no matter how much you wiped, fuckstick.

    4. Since you usually shit in the middle of the street surrounded by a pile of used diabetic syringes with heroin residue, what would you care?

  24. BTW, Trump also didn’t say “Mother may I?”
    I mean, REALLY!

  25. //There’s so much noise surrounding COVID-19 right now that it’s hard to know what to make of things.//

    Then shut the fuck up. Admitting that you have no idea what is happening but still coming to absolutist conclusions about Trump’s supposed failures on every front is nothing less than journalistic malfeasance.

    This is really becoming absurd and pathetic.

    1. Everything is so confusing! Tell me what to do!

  26. What a dumbass. I almost feel bad for his lackeys having to watch their idiot boss go on on live TV and incorrectly tell the whole country we’re shutting down trade with Europe for 30 days

    1. I’m certain Joe “Bumbles” Biden will do better.

      1. You’re full of shit dog face pony soldier. You want to go outside and do some pushups while taking an IQ test?

        1. I’ll see you on super Thursday!

    2. The soros trolls are all over the internet today. All posting the same talking points using accounts that have not been seen before. It is pathetic.

      1. At least on Disqus sites they show up as accounts with 34 comments, 2 upvotes, and a private posting history.

    3. POTUS Trump did not state trade was being shut down.

      1. Yeah but he couldn’t really understand what he said, so it’s not a lie to say he said that!

        – De Oppresso Liber

        1. R Mac, all these love notes are gonna make me blush, stop!

  27. Despite my comment above, I don’t blame him. He made his play.

    He has to do something politically speaking. Like it or not, the Democrats are going to milk this and he has to respond somehow.

    Pure politics.

  28. Malta is shutting down its schools due to CV19. I only know this because I have contacts there.

    1. I have contacts there

      Is this some kind of remote viewing joke?

    2. Given how dense the population is there I don’t think that will really make any difference.

    3. Same old bullshit from the same Trump haters

  29. Trump wants a payroll tax cut in response to the coronavirus.

    But he wanted one before the coronavirus too. It was a bad idea then, and it’s still a bad idea now.https://t.co/pY478AsWu9

    — Eric Boehm

    “libertarian” eh? wth

    A payroll tax cut is literally one of the BEST tax cuts that could be put into place.

    1. That Boehm is a progressive trying to finagle a ‘better’ writing gig is no secret here.

    2. Tariffs on American workers are sacred, tariffs on foreign imports are evil!

      1. It’s almost like the only possible way Reason’s positions make sense is if they are hardcore Marxists.

      2. Trump should have slapped a tariff on the coronavirus. Boehm would have shit AND gone blind.

    3. It was explained that it’s because there’s no planned spending cut to make it affordable. Like it or not a common point for this magazine is balancing the budget.

      1. THe assumption is that the government owns all of your wages and any additional amount of your money the government allows you to keep is the same thing as the government spending money or giving you welfare.

        That is their “libertarian” position. Yes, they care about deficits more than they care about freedom and property rights. They would be happier with a giant government that takes 80% of what everyone makes but has a balanced budget than they would with a small government that took so little taxes it ran a large deficit.

        They really don’t give a shit about anyone’s freedom but their own.

        1. That money will need to be paid somewhere, and it will be with interest. They clearly are not in favor of an 80% tax rate, but fiscal responsibility.

          Spending is the thing that needs control. I’m in favor of getting my money back from being stolen, but I’m also young enough to know I’ll have to pay for it if there’s no reduction in spending.

          1. The money is paid by bond holders who are willing to lend them the money. If you don’t believe in the government’s credit, don’t buy bonds.

            All tax cuts are good. They allow people to keep their own money and they will necessarily do that in a way that is better for their interests and the overall good than how the government will spend it. The need for spending cuts, while valid, is an entirely unrelated matter. We would still need them even if we had a balanced budget. To pretend they are related is to assume that the government obtains a right to take more of your money by spending more and creating more of a need. And that is tyrannical leftist bullshit.

          2. And I’m old enough to know that if you give them more, they will spend even more. Therefore, the only way to reduce spending is to reduce their revenue. This has the added benefit of people not being robbed quite so much.

            1. The government will never voluntarily make itself smaller, starving the beast is the only way to accomplish smaller government without resorting to violence.

  30. Nothing about Omar marrying her political consultant, who she paid hundreds of thousands of campaign donations to?

    http://m.startribune.com/ilhan-omar-marries-political-consultant-tim-mynett/568726242/

    May their first child be a masculine child.

    1. Too local. Didn’t you know that the world is suffering the ravages of the Trump Virus?!

    2. Let those without sin throw the first stone unless you’re Muslim then fire away.

  31. Trump speaking only confuses you if you bother listening.

  32. This is utterly ridiculous. What confusion?

    If you originate from China, South Korea, Iran, or the EU…you are not coming here. If you’re an American, welcome home, and you go into immediate quarantine for two weeks. This is not difficult to understand.

    Financial aid is on the way, Congress working out details.

    What is confusing here?

    1. Bear in mind that Elizabeth Nolan Brown is at least 2 standard deviations below average intelligence as measured by IQ. Many things are confusing for her which most others comprehend quite easily.

      1. If you think of her as a performance artist who is also heavily on the spectrum it all makes sense.

        1. She is a crazy cat lady who would be happier and better off in a different era where she would be married with a couple of kids and the neighborhood’s kookie mom.

  33. Confusion? I figure most people understood the Trump performance.

    The stock market short-circuited shortly after opening; it’s down more than eight percent at this moment.

    People understand. Some people, at least.

    1. You don’t even understand what a virus is Kirkland. One of the best things that could happen right now is for for low IQ people like you to just shut up. Some people might not understand how stupid you are and take what you are saying seriously. Let’s avoid that risk and just hold off for a while. When the situation is less serious, you can go back to spewing your normal stupidity when the potential consequences of it are lower.

      1. The economy was all the president had (except in the eyes of intolerant, stale right-wingers, who constitute a dwindling, desperate minority).

        Now he doesn’t have the economy.

        This crisis is revealing his inadequacies with brutal clarity. He boasts, lies, and mumbles vague nonsense when leadership, transparency, and judgment are needed. It’s like watching a timeshare salesman be put in charge of fighting the fire that is threatening the timeshare building.

        Enjoy the remaining few months of the Trump administration.

        1. And what of the stock market? It declined 20%. Big deal. Time to buy equities since they have just gone on sale. I have rebalanced at each 10% decline, because I am at least a decade from retirement. If you are smart, you will do the same.

          Not particularly concerned about the economy yet, but I would grant that it bears very close watching.

    2. Well said, Art.

      Drawing on the scholarship of Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman, I’ve been telling people for years Drumpf has been absolutely disastrous for the economy. Now people are finally waking up.

      #WorstEconomyEver
      #KrugmanWasRight

      1. In what sense are you drawing on Krugman’s scholarship rather than his opinions.

    3. “The stock market short-circuited shortly after opening; it’s down more than eight percent at this moment.”

      I’m sure you’re selling, right? I love when assholes buy high and sell low!

    4. Go die in a fire, cretin.

    5. Is this an example of our betters winning you like to speak of?

  34. No one was confused except for you, you brain damaged cunt. And it had nothing to do with Kung Flu.

  35. Look on the bright side: we cured AIDs! At least the people who die of corona virus will know that.

  36. How is cutting the payroll tax a bad thing? Yeah, we need to cut spending too, I get it, we are unsustainable with the spending. But cutting the payroll tax helps out everyone and its something that real libertarians push for. I’ll take what I can get.

    1. That is why Team D opposes it.

    2. A. It will vastly increase debt. B. It could be inflationary if the government circulates more dollars to pay those debts.

  37. But he spoke well to the idiots and that’s what matters. Nevermind the stockmarket growing MORE uncertain.

    This idiot couldn’t manage a newspaper stand let alone the whole country.

    1. I mean, if I wanted to be extremely fucking cold and pragmatic, I’d say the silver lining is that social security spending might actually be within its limits by the time this is over? But it’s not something I’d be hoping for. Greenies really are nothing but a cult with a moral superiority complex.

    2. It always comes back to murder with leftists

      1. We need vulnerable old people dead because they are in the way of us, in our moral superiority, protecting the vulnerable.

      2. OMG so melodramatic. Are you wearing black eyeliner right now? Yeah cause every suburban hippy lady right now at Whole Foods that voted for Hillary/Warren and doesn’t want her pu55y grabbed against her will is totally ALL ABOUT THAT MURDER, right? I say that because you seem unable to distinguish “people who don’t like 10000000% of Trump without question” from “murderous leftists like Pol Pot or whoever.

  38. I urge a self-imposed ban on reports that include Tweet screenshots that are not directly relevant. Reporters quoting the tweets of reporters is vanity, not news.

  39. ENB is easily confused.

  40. I am making a good MONEY (500$ to 700$ / hr )online on my Ipad .Do not go to office.I do not claim to be others,I yoy will call yourself after doing this JOB,It’s a REAL job.Will be very lucky to refer to this…… Read more  

  41. Coronavirus: President Donald Trump handed gift by Fabio Wajngarten, Brazilian press secretary with Covid-19

    (my emphasis added)

    President Bolsonaro of Brazil’s press secretary, who met and handed a gift to President Trump on Saturday, has tested positive for the coronavirus. Fabio Wajngarten was pictured standing next to Mr Trump at the president’s Mar-a-Lago resort …He gave Mr Trump a cap that had the slogan “Make Brazil Great Again”. Mr Trump was holding the cap that he had just been given … Later that evening Mr Wajngarten, 44, attended a party at the resort hosted by Kimberly Ann Guilfoyle, 51, who is working as a senior adviser for President Trump’s re-election campaign, and is the girlfriend of Donald Trump Jr, the president’s eldest son.

    The White House says Trump and Pence refuse to be tested. This leaves two possibilities.

    Likely: Trump and Pence will both be tested, but deny it.

    VERY remote: Nancy Pelosi, second in the line of succession to the Presidency, becomes the first female President.

    Would Trump risk even his own death, to avoid admitting he ever made a mistake? Probably. That’s how tiny egos work.

    P.S. As many are reporting, those European countries exempted from the travel ban closely coincide with Trump resorts. No surprise here.
    (And no knock on ENB. I doubt anyone can keep up with all the non-stop blunders, scandals and corruption in the current administration.)

  42. Were you confused? I wasn’t. I don’t know anyone who was, although some had questions that they checked into, figuring the answer out pretty quickly.

    “Confuses Nation” is Trump hatred.

    1. Confuses Nation” is Trump hatred.

      THE OVERNIGHT FUTURES MARKET CRASHED

      THE NEXT DAY, DOW COLLAPSED BY OVER 10% … THE LARGEST ONE-DAY DROP SINCE 1987

      https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-market-news-live-march-12-013620137.html

      The Trump Derangement is YOURS
      Shame on you

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