Game of Thrones

On Game of Thrones, Absolute Power Corrupts Daenerys Targaryen Absolutely

Breaker of chains, mother of dragons, and queen of the ashes

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Daenerys "Stormborn" Targaryen, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, Conqueror of Mereen, the Unburnt, Breaker of Chains, Mother of Dragons… and Mass-Murderer of the Innocent.

On tonight's penultimate episode of Game of Thrones, Sen. Elizabeth Warren's favorite character stared relatively bloodless victory in the face and spat at it, preferring to burn King's Landing to the ground. Man or woman, old or young, friend or enemy, innocent or evil—in the end, none of these distinctions mattered to the Dragon Queen.

Daenerys's turn to the Westerosi equivalent of the Dark Side of the Force was far too rushed: The writers even had the nerve to edit-in a montage of various characters recalling Daeny's capacity for cruelty during the "previously on" segment. But it wasn't a complete surprise. Indeed, Daeny has always made good use of the Targaryen motto fire and blood: She burned the Dothraki chieftains, crucified Mereen's nobility, and executed Westerosi lords who defied her. Despite her high-minded claims—all that breaking-the-wheel-nonsense—Daeny clearly practices a fiery form of collective punishment.

There's a lesson here, buried somewhere in the rubble of King's Landing: Power is a corrupting force, and when push comes to shove, well-intentioned leaders equipped with weapons of mass destruction are not so different from the tyrants they seek to topple. Daeny isn't really an improvement over Cersei: Indeed, the latter's act of explosive vengeance was surgical and restrained compared to what we just witnessed. Stripped of her power, Cersei was once again portrayed as sympathetic, trying desperately to succeed at the most noble goal: protecting her young. Here too, Thrones seemed to be saying that it was political power that poisoned Cersei. Vulnerable once again, she seemed almost human.

Farewell, Cersei—and Jaime, Sandor Clegane, Euron, Qyburn (RIP: Westeros's Scientific Revolution), and, of course, Varys. Varys, who met his end trying to stop Daeny's madness, once warned that Petyr Baelish was dangerous because he would gladly watch the world burn "so long as he could be king of the ashes." A version of this fear has now come to pass: The ashes, it seems, will have a queen.

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  1. The only libertarian on the show lost out to a fake wannabe Social Justice Warrior who ultimately turned authoritarian and tyrannical.

    Let that be a lesson to you, Reason. Stop cozying up to the far left.

    1. Now there’s your hot take for the episode.

    2. The “far left” generally agrees with us Koch / Reason libertarians on immigration, which is by far our top priority. This makes them our natural allies against the real enemy, the alt-right white nationalists.

      #AbolishICE
      #NoBanNoWall
      #OpenBorders

      1. OBL – Not everyone shares your priorities.

        For me, priority #1 is the national debt (specifically cutting spending). This is closely followed by priority #2, ending our stupid wars (and not starting new ones).
        Open borders are at best a distant #3.

        1. So you’re not too high on Trump either then.

      2. @OpenBordersLiberal-tarian Which is the reason why your a fucking moron, you can’t have a welfare state like we do and allow everybody to come in, that would bankrupt and ruin us. All one needs to do to see what, the Far left-Koch Brothers-Reason “open borders” policy has done is to go down to shit holes like Southern California (the whole state is in the red and not in a good way), and most of the border states. Your probably in some blue state in a city that hasn’t experienced your fucking elitist, stupid open borders bull shit, because if you were in those cities you’d be singing a different tune. The only way to have open borders is to do something YOU wouldn’t like, and that would be to abolish all government run welfare and social programs and have sacrosanct property rights. By your comments and name I can tell that is something your unwilling to do, sorry but you can’t have untrammeled immigration and a big welfare state, doesn’t work anywhere, fucktard.

    3. +1
      I hope the books don’t treat Mance Rayder like the show has. At this point would it be Jon or Arya who best represent liberty?

      1. I would go with Ser Davos. As Walter Williams explained to us (before he went neocon-crazy), the smuggler is, after all, a libertarian hero.

  2. What makes this episode so incredible is how butthurt so many people are about it.

    1. Yeah, all the hero worshipers out there are gonna go bananas–especially the feminists. They’re typing away furiously to completely disavow the series right now, I’m sure. How can the man triumph over the woman? It’s not fair! It was the woman’s turn! And if John triumphs over both Cersie and Deny?! And Deny goes all Dubya in Iraq on King’s Landing–like it’s shark week?!

      1. The SJW’s do want Mary Sues. Female protagonists cannot have flaws and cannot become emotionally attached to men. Nothing bad can happen to characters of color (at least if they have major supporting roles to the protagonists).

      2. r/freefolk went into absolute meltdown yesterday. Roll on over there for copious amounts of salt.

    2. I am not butthurt, becaue I gave up on this shitshow a while back. I have no problem with Dany turning into a mad queen. But it was done poorly. It was rushed. There should have been a more gradual transition.

      And Jaime’s character arc was completely pointless. A guy who killed a king to save the innocents suddenly doesn’t care about the innocent.

      1. “In S1E1, Jaime Lannister pushes Bran Stark out of a window. This is subtle foreshadowing for S8E5, where eight seasons of Jaime’s character development are similarly thrown out the window.”

        1. A perfectly snarky summation of my only issue with last night’s episode.

          1. Haven’t seen it yet, but they destroyed his character development when he suddenly decided to rush back to Cersei

        2. Character development is a literary trope. Most people in real life don’t change all that much. GoT was never afraid to upend literary tropes.

      2. I agree they cheesed stuff out, but in all fairness if he had got to her FIRST he may have tried to avoid the carnage… But he got there too late, and just had to GTFO to try to save his life. Incest love FTW!

      3. The whole season is rushed. They just had to wrap it up too quickly.
        But, hey, at least they are wrapping it up. I wonder if Martin ever will.

    3. For the love of Pete, it is a Si-fi fantasy cable tv series. Not sure why the young progressive disguised as a Libertarian is getting paid to draw out the Libertarian context. It is just plain silly. I would think writing about the Libertarian paradox presented in “I dream of Jeannie” makes more sense. I like the game of thrones but hardly think it worth so much scrutiny. Then again this is what you get when you hire millennial progressive nitwits to charade as Libertarians.

      1. >>>Libertarian paradox presented in “I dream of Jeannie”

        fun.

  3. At this point, I’ll be disappointed if John Snow ends up on the throne. The moral of an anarchist story should not be that the good guys always win the throne in the end.

    Maybe Deny kills John.

    P.S. I was really disappointed with last season, and I expected this season to be much worse. Tying up loose ends is hardly ever more interesting than creating new strings to begin with. I was wrong. This season has been excellent. Just don’t fuck it up by putting Aragorn on the throne, please.

    P.P.S. The Red god’s prophecy concerning Arya has only come one-third of the way true. Cersie had green eyes. John’s are brown. Does Cersie come back? I don’t know. I can’t believe we’ve seen the last of Sansa either.

    1. I bet John kills Dany, i.e. the “real” supervillain.

    2. The worst ending gives Sansa the throne.
      She sucks.
      And she will be queen because “vagina!”

      1. An anarchist wouldn’t write a story where the right guy becomes king. John may be Aragorn, but Martin isn’t Tolkein.

        1. An anarchist would write a story where the throne is disbanded and land titles are taken away from the nobles.

          1. Or the throne is destroyed and the fighting over it ends in a draw where every last member of every noble house is killed right down to the youngest children.

        2. Martin couldn’t carry Tolkien’s jock.

      2. Well, if she had a penis she would be king, no?

        Sansa didn’t get to her position because vagina. She learned how to think like a Lannister, how to think like Littlefinger, how to think like a Bolton, but with the moral stability of a Stark. I get how Sansa as queen would come off as cliche, but she’s playing the game like everyone else.

        1. Sansa becoming queen would be pure chance and accident. From season 1 until she finally gets back to the North she is a doe-eyed idiot chasing dreams. She LOOOOOOOVED Joffrey (because princess wedding dreams). She trusted Little Finger (because she didn’t know what else to do… great example of leadership there). She DIDN’T trust Arya… her own sister because Sansa is a bitch (She’ll be damned if some little sis upstart is going to question her! SHE’S THE OLDEST!!!).

          Sure… NOW she’s finally got a semblance of a head on her shoulders but her life choices damn near got it chopped off several times along the way.

          1. I thought that’s how it’s supposed to work – she starts off as this immature, naive teeny-bopper who makes stupid choices, has some awful shit happen to her, but she learns from her terrible mistakes and experiences. By the time she grows up she’s a lot wiser (and a bit more cynical).

            She learned the truth about Joffrey, she outsmarted Littlefinger in the end (phrasing), and relies on Arya as a trusted confidant. It would be stupid if she goes through all that shit and doesn’t change at all, just as it would be stupid if she was a fourteen year old who could understand all the political intrigue that surrounded her.

            1. Did she outsmart Littlefinger?
              Because it looked to me like she just let her telepathic brother and her assassin sister take care of things for her.
              -she does nothing to help herself or escape King’s Landing. She is rescued by Littlefinger.
              -she does nothing to save herself from Lysa. Again, saved by Littlefinger.
              -she does nothing to escape Ramsay. Saved by Theon
              -she gets Littlefinger to save Jon and the Wildlings, but lets them all damn near die. Her best advice is “don’t do what he wants you to do” (after advising that they shouldn’t fight because they don’t have enough fighters). Thanks, Sansa, that really helps. Maybe letting us know you had a battalion of heavy cavalry on the way could’ve helped?
              -Jon and his giant buddy, not Sansa, retake Winterfell.

              What has she actually done? Nothing to help Jon, Bran, Arya, Rickon, Robb, or anyone else, including “her” people.
              She’s passive and occasionally backbiting. Maybe she’s manipulated all these people into doing her bidding, but the show’s never demonstrated that.
              Her ending up on the throne has no established basis.
              She’s a girl and a victim – that is her claim to the throne (in real world – in story world, she has no claim whatsoever).

              1. Oh, and
                -she contributes nothing to the fight against the wights and NK. In fact, she makes things as awkward as possible for Dany – who only brought 2 dragons and the vast majority of the forces who fought and died defending Sansa’s home. Does she even thank Dany? Hell no, just disrespects and schemes behind her back

          2. Did you forget that Sansa started off 13 yrs old? There were lots of doe-eyed idiots along the way in this series. Number one was Eddard Stark.

      3. “She sucks”
        I understand she was forced to learn from Ramsey on her wedding night.

        1. And that’s why she gets to be queen – because so many people were triggered and offended by the “rape scene”
          She will be queen because it is her pity right to rule

          1. Hmm..She seemed to be the only one who realized that armies need to eat and rest. Who do you think should be the king of Westeros? Jon/Aegon is a pretty face who makes lots of dumb decisions (though he is good hearted). I was hoping for Tyrion but he has become sickeningly dumb and sentimental recently also.

            1. The show has gone to shit – that’s kinda the point.
              Only Sansa realizes armies need to eat and rest?
              You’re a fucking moron. Guess she’s also the smartest person in the show because Arya said so.
              Yes, Ned was doe-eyed – and he got his head cut off.
              All hail queen Sansa, ideal of the progs.

          2. I don’t think the writers seem too worried about making amends to the triggered and offended.

    3. I’m still holding out for Gendry.

      Maybe Dany kills Jon, and Arya kills Dany.
      Maybe Jon kills Dany, and then dies taking out Drogon.

      Either way, I think the season ends with Jon and Dany both dead, and dragons re-extincted. The throne (or what’s left of it) falls to the newly legitimized Gendry, who is the only person left with either Targaryen or Baratheon blood.

      I certainly agree that this season has been incredibly rushed, and the character development has suffered greatly because of it.

      1. Just a note to point out that as Robert Baratheon’s birth son, Gendry has both Targaryen and Baratheon blood. Robert and Dany share a common great grandfather who was a Targaryen king. (IIRC its Dany’s ONLY great grandfather..)

        1. Shouldn’t you have 4 great-grandfathers?

          1. Not in that family.

  4. Like a lot a things without Martin having fleshed the plot out in a book, the show gets the characters where it needs them to be in the most ham-fisted way possible. I suppose she does what does because Daenerys blames the people for not throwing down Cersei for her, so they are not innocent, but it seems awfully forced. Especially, since it is motivated in part because Jon would not give his aunt a kiss.

    Also, after having built up the scorpions as being a terrible threat to dragons, Dany deals with them easily when the show requires her to. The build-up was to an even fight, that was actually a rout in the making.

    1. That non-kiss had disastrous implications for her, and not because she’s a love stricken girl.

      That rebuff was not only from John, but from the whole of the people. She needed John to rule peacefully. And rather than abdicate, forcing the crown on its rightful owner, she went full fire-breathing dragon

      1. To Daenerys, Jon returning her her meant that someone cared for her as herself. She feels no love so she will dish out fear. She does not feel she has any friends or mentors anymore. All because we can infer Jon does not want to continue their incestuous love affair, since Jon does not outright say why he cannot show her physical affection anymore. I know the mantra is show, don’t tell, but Jon does not talk to her at all about what is inhibiting him.

      2. She said, “Let it be fear then” because if she couldn’t be loved by John for whom she really is, then the people of Westeros will not love her enough to let her lead them either.

        And John is clearly more afraid of her now than he loves her.

        1. The thing is, their split even makes sense because, while the Targaryans clearly have no problem with incestuous relationships, Jon was raised as a Northerner and they don’t do that shit.

          Yeah, it’s suppose to get played out as something more substantive, but the lack of time to finish the series prevented that from happening, and now she comes off looking like a sour-grapes bitch who decided to burn innocent people because her nephew didn’t give her the deep dicking she wanted.

          1. “Yeah, it’s suppose to get played out as something more substantive, but the lack of time to finish the series prevented that from happening”

            An entirely intentional choice (and a giant “fuck you” to fans) by the showrunners. HBO wanted more episodes, more seasons in fact, but the talentless hacks making the show couldn’t cut it and decided to mail in the ending.
            Way to shit all over your consumers, jackasses.
            “Anything worth doing is worth doing right” – the scumbags should’ve handed off the show to others if they were bored or out of ideas.

            1. I seriously have NO IDEA why the showrunners wouldn’t want to milk it for another season or 2 more… They’re getting paid out the ass, and chances are no matter WHAT project they move onto after this, it won’t be nearly as big. So why not just do it justice? It’s fucking stupid.

              1. Supposedly the show runners have been offered to do future Star Wars films. That is as big, no doubt, though this fan who went to see the first one as a tiny kid back in ‘77 and then begged his dad to take him to see two more times will NOT be seeing any future Star Wars. Not as long as Disney owns it, anyway.

              2. Supposedly the show runners have been offered to do future Star Wars films. That is as big, no doubt, though this fan who went to see the first one as a tiny kid back in ‘77 and then begged his dad to take him to see it two more times will NOT be seeing any future Star Wars thanks to TLJ. Not as long as Disney owns it, anyway.

                1. Yeah, I saw the Star Wars thing in another post after I wrote that… It is comparable to better, but still kinda dumb.

                  As far as the new Star Wars movies… I saw the first couple new ones, and have since allowed myself to fall behind with them because they’re kinda retarded, and way too riddled with SJW grrrl power nonsense to boot. SJW crap is even ruining movies and TV shows now, so annoying.

                  Then there’s the fact that nobody seems to be able to write a decent script anymore! The guy that did Deadwood should be in charge of every TV series HBO ever does, that guy was a writer!

    2. “I suppose she does what does because Daenerys blames the people for not throwing down Cersei for her, so they are not innocent, but it seems awfully forced.”

      She made her justification rather explicit. She even said that Cersei saw mercy as their weakness, which is why Cersei packed the capital with commoners. They were human shields!

      She said she was having mercy on future generations by doing what was necessary to install herself as queen. In the last episode, her advisors were talking to each other about how all the authoritarian tyrants justify their atrocities with the same logic.

      I remember.

      I remember when people would come here and get furious at me because I was reluctant to believe that the people of Iraq wanted the United States so bomb, invade, and occupy their country. I was a racist and a bigot for thinking that the Iraqis didn’t want American style democracy–and that they weren’t willing to suffer for that future. In her title, she calls herself the “Breaker of Chains”. Like the British imposing Imperialism on Africa–in the name of abolishing the slave trade at its source–that’s Deny. She’s a progressive who is sure that what she is doing is right–and she doesn’t care about the rights of the people that get in her way.

      1. Dany’s a neocon!

      2. If she had come in no holds barred it was one thing, but she went for military targets at first and had the enemy army surrendering and then she decided to raze the city. Except for rubbing salt in Cersei’s wounds at how utter her defeat is, there was not a good reason for Daenerys to do that

        1. “Submission or annihilation” isn’t a new thing in warfare.
          Alexander the Great was a good example. Cities that immediately submitted were treated rather well. Cities that held out, like Tyre, were utterly sacked.
          Of course, his decisions had strategic value.
          That remains to be seen for our sudden cartoon villain.

          One thing is certain: she’s gonna need a new capital

        2. Seriously, why destroy HER OWN capitol city and castle??? That was effectively HER shit at that point. It’d be one thing if they were all fighting tooth and nail, etc etc etc, but they surrendered pretty early on. It was sheer stupidity.

          I mean SOME real rulers have done things really dumb like this in the past… But not very often. When one obliterated a whole city IRL, it was usually a FIRST city, or to set an example to another empire you intended to invade. There was a REASON. But this was THE LAST battle. She had no reason to make an example of her own capitol city.

          I mean they’re trying to show her as being crazy and blood thirsty or whatever… But the particulars of how it went down were just a little too corny to believe, even for a vicious, evil person.

    3. Exactly. The killing of the dragon last episode was as completely pointless as the fight between Jaime and Euron was this episode.

    4. I’m pretty sure things wouldn’t have turned into such a shitshow if they hadn’t crammed a bunch of plot into a season-and-a-half’s worth of episodes. Rumor has it that HBO wanted to do a ten-season series, and D&D said, “no, we’re going to do eight, at the most”. Ten, ten-episode seasons might have actually provided enough time to flesh out the plotlines, because in most instances, they ultimately make sense when looking back on the previous seasons.

      Trying to cram all these wrap-ups the way they ultimately blew up any sensible character development that might have been written in. HBO really should have told D&D to fuck off and hired someone else if they wanted ten seasons that badly, and the result has been Lost/Dexter levels of series-ending execution.

      1. I really hope D&D never get work again.
        How could anyone ever trust them to not give up on a project halfway through and, rather than having even minimal integrity and quitting, shit out an ending that torches the franchise?

        It’s almost impressive on a “meta” level:
        Game of Thrones is King’s Landing.
        The fans are its inhabitants.
        D&D are Dany and Drogon.

        1. They’re supposed to be moving on to Star Wars projects next, a well-deserved fate for an IP that’s become a CGI therapy session for Millennial cat-ladies and middle-aged wine-moms.

  5. “Qyburn (RIP: Westeros’s Scientific Revolution)”

    Qyburn was this world’s Frankenstein mixed with Mengele. If he was a scientific revolution, it was an entirely unethical one.

    1. Cool fucking death though.

      1. He died in the saddle? At least he went out happy??

      2. Huh? He died like a bug, smashed on a rock. Exact opposite of cool

        1. Cool to watch, not cool for him.

        2. Famous Last Words – Qyburn edition:

          “Oof!”

  6. “On tonight’s penultimate episode of Game of Thrones, Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s favorite character stared relatively bloodless victory in the face and spat at it, preferring to burn King’s Landing to the ground.”

    Ugh, I’ve seen so many conservatives pounce on the fact that Warren backed the wrong ruler on a fantasy TV show. So what? Here in the real world where it matters, she can spot a dangerous tyrant when she sees one — she has called for Drumpf’s impeachment, after all.

    Furthermore, nothing that happened on last night’s episode compares to the violence and brutality of Orange Hitler’s draconian war on immigration. He has literally ripped children from their parents’ arms.

    #LibertariansForWarren

    1. I was tempted to give a sincere reply until I noticed the name. Good job, OBL, you nearly got me

    2. You’ve seen Game of Thrones, just like Warren has.

      Who could have seen this coming?

  7. This would not happen if I was King. The world would swing.

  8. It was the equivalent of dropping the nuclear bomb a week after the Japanese surrendered while the American troops were occupying the capital. It seemed to me she went fucking nuts very much in the way Cersei lost her mind. The lesson is few people are above the madness of hatred. Arya had the same disease but fortunately for her she was able to come out of it at the end thanks to the Hound. Danny had a dragon at her disposal so when she lost it the consequences were much more severe for the world. I imagine the dragon went crazy too because they seem pretty smart and Drogon knew what he was doing killing all those people. Everyone wanted to nice little package with Cersei bad, Dany & John good. Some still want that bright line, i.e. power corrupts so we need only dissemble power but for me the lesson is there is no easy answer to the madness in humanity that we are more a product of our experiences than we are innately good or bad.

    1. I think the lesson is obvious. Don’t give rulers too much power because this is the kind of shit they do. Naturally you will conclude that the solution is to give her more funding to buy another couple dragons because burning peasants alive is one of those things we decide to do together.

      1. Burninating the countryside, burninating the peasants! Burninating all the peoples and their thatched-roof cottages!

      2. Cool.
        The show that made a name for itself portraying the realistic ineffectiveness and consequences of rigid faith in and behavior according to idealistic virtue is going to wrap up with a moral composed of idealistic virtue triumphing over reality.

    2. It was the equivalent of dropping the nuclear bomb a week after the Japanese surrendered while the American troops were occupying the capital.

      You make me sick.

        1. To suggest the Japanese were no longer a military threat comparable to the city of Kings Landing after Drogon’s initial attack could be attributed to ignorance of Japan’s military, industrial, and political history leading up to and during the campaign against the USA. The truth is that Japan still had plenty of capacity to wage war and would have fought bitterly out of fear of occupation by the USSR, who were immediately poised to re-enter the Pacific theater in August of 45. Maybe he was just being snarky about dropping the bomb after occupying the capital, but the assumption in that premise is that the A-bombs were used as an intimidation tactic directed at the Soviets and had no legitimate strategic use.

          1. Regardless of the Japanese capacity to wage war, they had as yet refused to surrender.
            Fucking lefty ignoramuses like OP have yet to answer one simple question:
            What more humane alternative was there to end WWII?
            Like the lefty fucking ignoramus OP, none have yet provided an answer.

  9. By the way I called all of this weeks ago. Remember when I threw out the Nietzsche warning about “beware when you fight monsters that you don’t become one”. I said Dany was no different than Cersei and more than capable of being a monster given the right experiences.

    1. By the way I called all of this weeks ago.

      Anyone who’s watched this series from about Season 2-onward could have seen this coming, considering the copious warnings Dany’s given throughout the series about what a psychopath her dad was, combined with her Ralph Wiggum-like dedication to burning things.

  10. Terrible episode. How does fire instantly cause buildings to crumble? It’s medieval napalm people. A fast conflagration like Tokyo would have been better.

    Arya will kill Danaerys and Jon and Sansa will share the throne, as a mirror of Jaime and Cersei. That’s why they showed Arya in the Kings Landing destruction, so her righteous anger has a source.

    1. The Night King’s dragon’s fire did that to winterfell. Dragon fire is not like normal fire.

      1. In the book, dragonfire melts stone, it doesn’t blow it apart. Fucking hell, the Lannister’s own theme song confirms that.

        1. Fuck, not Castamere, the burning of Harrenal. Wrong genocidal family.

        2. If you start melting the stone from which a stone building is constructed, the building will collapse under it’s own weight long before all of the stone is completely melted.

    2. It’s expelled with force from the dragon (which, cliche warning – is magical). It’s not like squirting lighter fluid through a flame.

    3. Yes, but crumbling a city while you burn it is so much more dramatic, isn’t it?

    4. The other comments are grasping. If dragonfire has stone-shattering force behind it, then Varys’ body should have gone flying off when he got torched. Sometimes it is a flamethrower and sometimes it is an explosive?

      “It’s magic” is shitty storytelling.

      And, yes, they are clearly setting up Arya to make an attempt on the Queen. They even showed her looking sadly at all the the dead bodies.

      The apprentice of the God of Death, all weepy because people are dead? “The Soldier” getting a twist in his codpiece over other soldiers doing what soldiers do.

      The only way this plot doesn’t lose all credibility is if the Queen kills John and every last Stark. And then Bronn shoots the Queen with that awesome crossbow and Tyrion is made king and gives Bronn Highgarden and they build a giant temple to the god of tits and wine. There is the libertarian conclusion we all want. A little guy in charge and drugs and prostitution legalized.

      1. The dragon controlling the strength of it’s flame is less hard to believe than the dragon itself. If the dragon couldn’t do this, Varys not flying off the ground is down the list of problems… Obviously it can otherwise a lot of people have been standing way closer than they would have survived.

        Arya got kicked out of God of Death school for refusing to kill someone innocent at all, and deciding instead of killing someone for not paying out insurance money, she was going to go kill someone who was much, much worse. It was nice seeing her decide her anger at Cersei wasn’t worth dying over.

        Definitely like your ending though.

      2. IAWTHP

    5. Seriously. And apparently dragons have the ability to shoot out 100 times their own body weight in flammable liquid of whatever variety.

      1. I had thought that based on the limited duration of earlier dragon attacks, the dragons had only so much fire in them at one go.

        I don’t think the dragons require a consistent physical explanation like flamable liquid. It can just be magical fire. But a little more consistency in how they can be used would have been good.

        1. Yeah. For me in my fantasy/sci-fi movies in theory anything can go… But things that seem inconsistent, or are really dumb and are NOT given an explanation kind of annoy me. I guess I like to have the rules of the universe laid out at least a bit, and then adhered to correctly.

    6. Dude, it’s magic dragon fire, it can do whatever the writers want. If you are going to complain about the realism, maybe start with the giant flying reptile that breathes fire.

      1. True, a bird of that mass would never get off the ground. If you look at pterosaurs, they were very skinny and walked on their ‘elbows’ (bend in their wings).

        All of the supernatural stuff turned me off, but at least don’t violate the conservation of momentum so egregiously. It just looks too fake. Very poor cgs.

  11. I don’t think the writers are trying to show the corrupting influence of power. To me, last night’s episode is really about the virtues of checks and balances in the execution of power. They’re essentially showing Daenerys going insane, and there’s no check on her wielding what appears to amount to a WMD in Drogon. And apparently dragons are a lot like Rambo in that they never have to reload.

    1. The dragons have a dimensional gate inside their mouth to the Elemental Plane of Fire.

      1. The dragons have a dimensional gate inside their mouth to the Elemental Plane of Fire.

        Nerd! You are owed a wedgie for that comment.

    2. I was thinking the same thing about the never ending ability to spit fire. No material in the universe is dense enough energy wise for that dragon to hold enough of it to make that much fire.

      1. And dead, decayed bodies can’t get up and walk around. And people can’t take other people’s faces and use them to take on their physical form. Etc.
        It’s funny what people decide to get all technical about.

        1. Like I said above, I like some rules to be laid out in fantasy/sci-fi universes, and then adhered to. Things that seem outside the realm even in that universe then need extra explanation.

          Like if in GOT humans all just have regular strength… And then some guy can magically leap 50 feet in the air, that would need explaining. Not that perhaps it shouldn’t happen, but it would need to be explained.

          Also, I generally prefer things to be kept to being as realistic as possible, and only go for the random made up explanation if it is really needed. I like magic shit. For realz. But randomly trotting out magic to explain away poor writing etc irks me, especially with no explanation or consistency.

  12. Without power they would have died fighting the Night King. Without power Cersei would have killed them long ago. If you don’t assemble power someone else will.
    It’s not the power but how you use the power.

    1. Without power the Night King would never have taken down the wall.

      1. Yeah that was a big oopsie.

    2. Dany wants power so she can RULE. John has, up to this point, wanted power so as to NOT be ruled (minus the whole “she’s my queen” crap he bought into lately… but no one is perfect). So it’s not HOW you use it, but WHY you want it that matters first. Then how comes into play. Using power correctly for the purpose of ruling is still bad… it’s what made Dany a progressive when she was still in the East. Using power incorrectly for the sake of securing people’s freedom is also bad, even though it’s for a “good cause.”

    3. It’s not the power but how you use the power.

      Hey, dipshit, it’s the power. In particular, power in the hands of a few people, or one person. Once they decide what the “greater good” is (and it seems like they always do) the greater part of the people start to suffer.

      It’s the same reason the French and Russian revolutions turned out so different than the American revolution. I am glad to see you are just as ridiculously stupid when it comes to made up politics as real politics. Try reading some actual history.

      And, by the way, yes, they had a lot of powerful people and magic and dragons assembled to battle the Night King, but in the end, nobody killed the Night King. Have you even been watching the show?

      1. In many respects the system of government is almost not important… I think that the last 100 years of “democracy” in the world shows quite clearly that elected governments can be just as tyrannical as kings. For instance the people of the UK are LESS FREE now in many respects than they were saaay 200 or 300 years ago when the monarchy held a lot more real power.

        History is filled with good kings and bad kings… I am beginning to wonder if that is terribly different than good political parties (and their platforms) and bad political parties. I’m pretty sure I would rather have Augustus Caesar in charge as Caesar than Bernie Sanders.

        I guess the moral of the story is most people are fucked most of the time! People like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are a rare breed indeed. That’s my take away anyway…

  13. stared relatively bloodless victory in the face and spat at it, preferring to burn King’s Landing to the ground. Man or woman, old or young, friend or enemy, innocent or evil—in the end, none of these distinctions mattered to the Dragon Queen.

    The murder/destruction porn was a bit over the top. But now that D is a crazy, murderous tyrant the only thing they can do is have her killed and have John Snow assume the throne. Proggies are not going to like that.

    And the pacing is way off. And since when does fire have mass to blow stone apart?

    1. The undead dragon did the same thing on the northern wall.

      I mean, it’s a dragon. Since when can reptiles spit fire? We’re gonna take issue with the nature of the fire they spit?

      1. That wall was made of ice not stone.

        1. Magical ice that could support itself in a 700′ tall wall for thousands of years.
          Dragon fire can melt stone, in the books at least.

      2. Somebody said above in the books their fire is so hot it melts stone… So I guess it’s GRRMs fault… But it’s still stupid. I mean if they’d showed it slowly melting some shit and then a building falling over, okay. But blowing it away like it’s a flame thrower combined with heavy artillery is a bit retarded.

    2. It’s not mass that matters. Fire is energy. If it’s hot enough, it can melt stone.

      Someone up thread said that one of the books mentions that dragon fire is hot enough to melt stone.

      At that point, there are two paths to blowing stone apart.

      1. There was a brand of drinking glasses that had a flaw in the manufacturing process that left mechanical stress in the finished glass strong enough that they could spontaneously explode.

      As you heat something to it’s melting point, it gets structurally weaker before it actually melts. Weak enough for a large structure to collapse under it’s own weight.

      If there is mechanical stress in the stone, it could explode as the heating process weakens it.

      2. if there is water trapped in pockets in the stone (yes, this can happen in natural stone, particularly with sedimentary stones. Heating the stone to the melting point will super heat the water causing it to flash to steam and the stone will explode from the increased internal pressure.

      1. In addition to all that, Fire in the story is, among other things, a magical, elemental force. So how the hell do we know what it is or what it can and can’t do. It’s fantasy. Things exist that aren’t really possible.

  14. First good episode of the season.
    Did almost nothing to set up Dany’s madness, but everyone knew it was coming- why bother, eh?
    RIP Cersei. I was rooting for you.
    And now: f Sansa. She is a terrible character who’s done nothing but be either a victim or smug bitch. “She’s the smartest person I know.” Thanks for telling us, Arya, because otherwise we’d have nothing to establish that characterization.
    This season, maybe the last 2, has just been a giant middle finger to viewers. Obviously, that being the case, Sansa will become queen (at least of the north).

    Veep, on the other hand, has been the best show going for years and its finale totally delivered.

    Ianucci > Dave and Dan

    1. Don’t worry, it won’t be Sansa.

    2. Sansa is stupid… But she may end up ruling the north or something. She better not rule the 7 kingdoms though. That’d be dumb. I would completely approve of an awesome nude scene from her before the show ends though… I do have a bit of a thing for redheads. 🙂

      Honestly, they might as well just have Jon end up ruling happily ever after. It’s predictable, but honestly would be better than any other stupid twist ending I can think of. They could have something crazy happen to him before it all goes down, like he loses an arm or something cool. I dunno. Or maybe they decide to split up the 7 kingdoms again for kicks? Whatever. We’ll find out next week, I’m not too into theorizing about it at this point…

    3. Yeah, the Veep finale was pretty awesome.

  15. Bring the whole family to the Stadium this Friday as the Yankees celebrate murder, rape, incest, treachery, torture and wholesale slaughter. It’s Game of Thrones Night at Yankee Stadium! The first 10,000 fans will receive a free Game of Thrones t-shirt, courtesy Kingsford® Charcoal.

    https://www.mlb.com/tickets/game-of-thrones

    1. Did the charcoal come from King’s Landing?

  16. I don’t watch this show but if I’m the U.S. government, I’m looking to get some dragons.

    Islamic Terrorist#1: What duh…ALLAH! What is that?
    IT#2: It looks like an American (quints eyes)….on a dragon?
    IT#1: Look! Another one! Seems a little tiny….and eating doughnuts.
    IT#3 (narrows gaze): Canadians.

    1. Dragons can become your undead enemies.

      If you think dragons are bad, wait ’til you see an undead dragon.

      You should definitely check out the show and stream it from the beginning. All the things you hate about SJWs? It’s pretty much none of that, and the whole thing appears to be a total rejection of the idea that the solution to our problems is choosing the right leaders.

      Oh, and in the meantime, it’s full of tits and monsters. It’s soft porn and sword fights by Shakespearean actor types–best thing I’ve seen happen in popular culture since I don’t know when.

    2. The battle from The Long Night may have been the best battle I’ve ever seen depicted on film.

      Imagine if the Battle of Helm’s deep were its own hour and a half movie.

      There’s also not much in the way of explication in the dialogue–which means it isn’t insulting to your intelligence like Star Trek, where the characters have to stop what they’re doing to explain to the dullards in the audience who are too slow to figure out what’s happening and why unless you spell it all out for them in the dialogue.

      Any great eight season show can be ruined by a stupid ending (see the Ewoks taking down the Empire), but this doesn’t look like it’s going to suck. How often do you get to see something really well done that also has a libertarian message at its heart? Definitely worth checking out.

      1. Imagine if the Battle of Helm’s deep were its own hour and a half movie.

        It was…wasn’t it? It was at least an hour.

      2. “There’s also not much in the way of explication in the dialogue–which means it isn’t insulting to your intelligence like Star Trek, where the characters have to stop what they’re doing to explain to the dullards in the audience who are too slow to figure out what’s happening and why unless you spell it all out for them in the dialogue.”

        I liked the lack of dialogue, but c’mon man.
        I could’ve used some explanation as to why they decided
        -not to light the woods on fire, providing both an impediment to the wights and backlight for them
        -lead off with a frontal cavalry charge which could only serve to deplete thousands from your forces while adding thousands to theirs
        -position artillery in front of infantry in front of trenches in front of the walls

        Those were but some of the baffling generalship on display.
        Yes, it was an insult to our intelligence.
        The lighting was shit. Shooting a night battle like this is what filmmakers do when they want to seem like they’re showing skills at the ability to do it at night, but really they don’t have the chops to do it right so they make as much of it as hard to see as possible. Battles of Blackwater and of Bastards were better. Sack of King’s Landing was better. Wildlings vs the Wall was better.

        1. Dany’s Dothraki army was cavalry. They weren’t about to use cavalry inside the keep. And the intent was to kill as many of the undead as far away from the keep as possible–to keep the undead as far away as possible.

          Hurling missiles over charging cavalry isn’t unhead of. That’s how you soften up the line. The Unsuillied foot soldiers were there to protect the retreat, and the Northmen and Wintefell’s warriors were fighting out in front of the artillery.

          Remember, too, that the plan (from the episode before The Long Night) was sucker The King of the White Walkers in to go after Bran. Dany threw that plan away when she saw her cavalry destroyed in an instant, and she was suckered into attacking like John Snow was in the Battle of the Bastards.

          The plan was that once the undead army were drawn out into the open field, the dragons would go hunting for the King of the Undead. And sure enough, when the undead dragon attacked them, that might have worked, two dragons against one–but the Undead King called in a blizzard, which made it impossible for them to see what was happening on the ground. They couldn’t even see the signal to light the trenches from the air.

          It wasn’t a bad plan against undead opponents using the cavalry they have. You use the Dothraki to do what they do, which is charges and fades from horseback. Once undead horde get to you, there’s no firing artillery. It wasn’t a bad plan just because the cavalry failed to turn back a crazed army of the undead. That was the correct use of those troops–even if it failed.

          1. Plus, it made a fucking AWESOME scene. I’ll forgive any bad tactics for that alone. It IS a show made for television.

  17. political power that poisoned Cersei

    That seems pretty unfair. First, she was never, ever, portrayed as an innocent on this show. Second, the political power in and of itself most certainly didn’t corrupt her. She was already corrupted/damaged when she took the throne. Her exercise of power was a consequence of life experience. It wasn’t like she walked into the throne with good intentions and then went sour.

    1. Agreed. It’s the desire for power that corrupts, not simply holding it. Rob Stark, Jon Snow and Rhaegar Targaryen weren’t significantly corrupted by power because they never desired it, while characters like Dany, Cersei and Littlefinger were always corrupt to some extent as they enthusiastically played the game. Dany was never like Rhaegar; she was a smarter, more powerful, female version of Viserys, which makes sense given that he raised/indoctrinated her through age 14.

      1. Like wise, another one people frequently get wrong is “money is the root of all evil”. This comes from the bible, and the original is “The love of money is the root of all evil”.

  18. The absolute best part of last night’s shitshow was the thought of all those idiots who named their kids Daenerys or, even dumber, Khaleesi.

    Congrats, you exceptional people, you named your brat after a STRONK WYMYN who’s triggered by bell-ringing like an autist.

    1. Heh. My wife and I currently have a 4-yr-old named Daenerys Leia living with us, along with her dad.

  19. It was hard to watch all the rampaging but I admit feeling a bit vindicated for distrusting Dany almost the entire time. She was fairly sympathetic in the beginning but became pretty arrogant and terrible as soon as she had some power. Her rhetoric and looks duped everyone into thinking she was different

    1. The Boxwine Brigade didn’t stop to think what happens when a YAAAAASS KWEEEEEEN SLAAAAAY gets too fond of slaying.

      1. I only understood like half of the words in that sentence.

    2. She was too SJW almost from the start for me to fully like her. She was too kind at the wrong times, and too cruel at the wrong times also. Just not a thinker. I can actually think rationally, so dumb characters in shows always irk me, especially when everybody else thinks they’re being smart or whatever, when they’re clearly morons.

      1. Rape is right out, and slavery, but burning a million innocent people alive just has to be done sometimes.

        1. Right? I probably couldn’t even rattle off all the scenes that made me hate her, but it was just her general demenor. She acted like these huffy SJWs, and then proceeded to try to justify doing shit that was worse than the injustices she claimed to hate all the time. Pretty much a typical 2010s prog for ya right there.

  20. I thought the ep managed to switch our sympathies from Dany to Cersei and also was the most horrific WWII-esque depiction of war in the series.

    I’m not sure this is the death GRRM has planned for Cersei, and that was underwhelming, though not unrealistic considering the castle was falling down and she was in it.

    Someone has to dispatch Dany now, but how do they deal with Drogon? That’s my biggest question.

    1. Drogon switches hos loyalty to Jon, maybe? It’s a possibility and while the show has made it less likely they still have enough room to hamfist it in.
      I haven’t watched the ep yet, but if rumors of more dragons existing is true we might have some other means of resolution

      1. Drogon seems to like Jon, so I could see a swerve happen where he abandons Dany and Arya finishes her off.

        1. Or Bran wargs into Drogon, finally giving Bran a purpose other than bait.

    2. Agree that Cersei’s last episode arc was actually handled pretty well, on the whole, although a lot of that is due to Lena Headey understanding her character about as well as any actor or actress on this show managed to do.

      Too bad poor Jaime had his entire character growth and development blown to shit in two episodes, though. They should have kept him at KL if he was just going to stay thirsty for his sister’s cunt.

      1. I have no problem with him staying true to his incest ways. Notice how (articulated by Arya and Sandor) people are basically what they are and stay that way, with perhaps a burst of heroism when needed.

        I just thought Cersei and Jaime would have gone out in a more dramatic way than rocks falling on them.

        1. I get what you’re saying, but even with Arya and the Hound, that got jacked up when Arya slaughtered the head of a major house and his immediate family and went ninja on the Night King.

          I certainly have no problem with her going back to essentially being the ordinary tomboy that she was in the early seasons, but the constricted time frame resulted in that part of her character development coming out of nowhere.

          1. I was thinking of it more being about “I’m not a lady.” She’s increased her ninja skills exponentially, but she was interested in that kind of thing from episode 1.

            I just started thinking about this, but few of the characters ever really change from their essential nature, and for Jaime and Cersei, that means not giving much of a shit about anything but twincest, no matter how hard they tried.

  21. Wrap…it…up. That’s all this season is about. For 7 seasons winter was coming and the undead were going to destroy the world. Nope one stab and that’s all done.

  22. I’m disappointed in most of this season so far. Some good dialogue but the plot is ham-handed. No cleverness, just dumb setups to get to the resolution as soon as possible.

  23. […] discussion include our latest “constitutional crisis,” the most recent installment of that television show, and also this […]

  24. […] discussion include our latest “constitutional crisis,” the most recent installment of that television show, and also this […]

  25. […] up for discussion include our latest “constitutional crisis,” the most recent installment of that television show, and also this […]

  26. […] discussion include our latest “constitutional crisis,” the most recent installment of that television show, and also this […]

  27. Republicans posing as libertarians really will argue about anything!

  28. Oh, my, this is the kind of strained metaphor-ising you get when you watch overwrought, gratuitous bullshit.

    1. And?

      People like overwrought, gratuitous bullshit. A lot.

  29. As with all of this season, it was way too rushed, and pretty dumb in how lots of things went down. It’s not like it’s become the WORST show ever or anything, but definitely not as good as previous seasons, probably more due to the rushing than anything.

    I’m not even going to try to speculate on how it all ends. It’s either going to be really dumb but unpredictable, decent and really predictable, or really dumb and predictable. I really don’t see a good unpredictable AND good ending.

    1. Yes. Rushed, but also jarringly out of scale. While there were certainly large scale actions in the past episodes most of the truly engaging stuff has been on the smaller stages.

      These last two episodes have seemed more like recent superhero moveis or Star Wars like – especially the Clegaines falling out of a crumbling tower into the flames.

      It’s also too discordant and contrived. They didn’t have to wrap everything up, and should have let some of the lesser things remain stewing in the background and focused on better on how to resolve the key points.

      Jaime leaving Cersei, being targeted for death, then returning at the last moment and being accepted back, followed by bloodless entombment in final embrace was trite.

      1. Pretty much agree on all points. Hollywood script writers, man… They always find a way to screw things up an snatch defeat from the claws of victory.

  30. —all that breaking-the-wheel-nonsense—

    Actually this is exactly what she meant by “breaking the wheel”

    She described the turning of the wheel as raising one house up while carrying another down, always shifting the balance of power in Westeros, its the titular “Game of Thrones”

    By breaking the wheel she would be preventing any other house from coming to power and supplanting her power. She never planned to end the “game” by abolishing it or changing the rules, she planned to end it by winning it, once and for all

    1. FINALLY SOMEBODY WHO GETS IT

  31. Did I say “Protector of the Seven Kingdoms”? I meant six.

  32. Compared to Breaking Bad, GoT was amateurish.

  33. GOT is my favorite TV Show. I watched all the seasons on cinema hd apk

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