A.M. Links: Trump Says 'Take the Guns First, Go Through Due Process Second,' Hope Hicks Resigns, Putin Says Russia Has Nuclear Weapons Capable of Avoiding Missile Defense Systems

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  Gage Skidmore / Flickr.com

  President Donald Trump: "Take the guns first, go through due process second."

• Sen. Ben Sasse: "We have the Second Amendment and due process of law for a reason. We're not ditching any Constitutional protections simply because the last person the President talked to today doesn't like them."
• Hope Hicks will resign from her position as White House communications director.
• "Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has been investigating a period of time last summer when President Trump seemed determined to drive Attorney General Jeff Sessions from his job, according to people familiar with the matter who said that a key area of interest for the inquiry is whether those efforts were part of a months-long pattern of attempted obstruction of justice."
• The Trump administration is expected to announce new tariffs on steel and aluminum.
• Vladimir Putin says Russia has developed nuclear weapons capable of avoiding missile defense systems.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

President Donald Trump: "Take the guns first, go through due process second."

3D check mate!

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

Wouldn't it be funny if the left suddenly turns on gun control now that Trump is talking like them?!

[Citizen X - #6]

What will actually happen is that the grabbiest of progs will just say "see, even LITERAL HITLER can tell there's a problem!" This will allow them to feel magnanimous and unbiased as they continue to trash supporters of the second amendment.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Glomming on to anything Trump is riding the shark.

[Citizen X - #6]

You know that and i know that, but there's a lot of people who don't know that, or at least are willing to pretend they don't for a little temporary advantage.

[loveconstitution1789]

You know what other Austrian was as dumb as Citizen?

[Citizen X - #6]

Lc1789 is one of the ones who doesn't know that, in case it wasn't obvious.

[silver.]

Archduke Ferdinand?

Look what that idiot's death caused.

[loveconstitution1789]

Kurt Schuschnigg?

[loveconstitution1789]

Marie Antoinette?

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

I can think of more smart Austrians than dumb Austrians. Especially when it comes to economics.

[loveconstitution1789]

Then the list is short, with Citizen at the top. Smart Austrians is not the game.

[Citizen X - #6]

I'm still waiting to see which Reason staffer you've decided i am, lc.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I think you're Christian, personally

[Citizen X - #6]

I don't think my soul is capable of the depths of derision Britches expresses for the commentariat with every bare-minimum, no-fucks-given Links post.

[Bee Tagger]

Sen. Ben Sasse: "We have the Second Amendment and due process of law for a reason. We're not ditching any Constitutional protections simply because the last person the President talked to today doesn't like them."

Sounds like someone's trying to be the last person the President tweeted about today.

[Jerryskids]

What's Sasse's Shit Trump Tweets handle? "Little Ben", "Sad Sasse", "The loser who begged me to endorse him and is just mad because he's such a pathetic loser and I don't endorse losers like him"?

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Wow, you could literally write his tweets!

[MarkLastname]

Sassy Ben

[Fist of Etiquette]

We're not ditching any Constitutional protections simply because the last person the President talked to today doesn't like them.

That's not how our government works now, Ben.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Plenty of other good reasons to ditch constitutional protections.

[Citizen X - #6]

President Donald Trump: "Take the guns first, go through due process second."

Ain't it a shame
When due process
Gets in the way
Of swift justice?

[loveconstitution1789]

Among Taylor Swift?

[loveconstitution1789]

Nothing on the SCOTUS deciding that ICE can hold illegals indefinitely without bail? This will surely get ilelgals to not fight extradition and be deported. Bye bye illegals.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

This is likely where Trump gets the idea that due process is overrated. His supporters don't really care about it either.

What is your excuse? Illegals are some sub-human species? Rights come from government and only apply to citizens? You don't care as long is it's not your due process?

[loveconstitution1789]

Illegals are getting Due Process. They get their Due Process on the Mexican side of the border.

[Citizen X - #6]

This is lc1789 - it's mostly the second one, with a fair sprinkling of the third and a frisson of the first.

[loveconstitution1789]

This is Citizen. Says nothing good. Does nothing good. Likes my posts though.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

Due process was invented in the Constitution.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

For 'Mericans, by 'Mericans!

[loveconstitution1789]

Americans have allowed non-Americans in the USA to receive Due Process.

The SCOTUS gave then Due Process and now the illeals can be deported Southward en masse.

[Longtorso, Johnny]

They Don't Hate The NRA. They Hate You
Your life means nothing to them, just as the lost lives in Chicago mean nothing to them. There are several Parklands a month in the Windy City, but the Democrats who run it don't care. They know where the bad guys are. They won't act. Instead, they feign concern over the children because faking outrage will help them do what they really want done. That's why you had them arguing that the idea of a cop actually doing his job was crazy.

They want you disarmed and disempowered, not the nuts, not the criminals, not the terrorist, not the illegal aliens. You. Why?

Because they hate you.

They hate that you won't submit.

They hate that you won't obey.

And they hate that you refuse to give up your only means of protecting yourself and preserving your rights.

They hate you.

[creech]

On the other hand, you'd think they'd be concerned about " literally Hitler" empowering the white supremacists and their alt-right militias to rampage against the disarmed progressives and correct-thinking peoples.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I see a sign that reads, 'Abolish the NRA'.

How is that even possible? Isn't it a private organization?

[Longtorso, Johnny]

See the post below about ANTIFA violent threats. They mean abolish the individual members.

[Rufus The Monocled]

That makes even less sense!

[Longtorso, Johnny]

They plan to kill you.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Ah.

Well, I'm in Canada. Lucky me.

But nice folks them.

[Zeb]

Good thing I have a lot of guns, then.

[loveconstitution1789]

Once they get the NRA membership rolls, they are coming for YOU. Getting your guns are the bonus.

[cgr2727]

So the ANTIFA thugs would literally be bringing knives to a gunfight. Something about "cold dead hands" and "don't tug on Superman's cape" come to mind in this situation. Logical minds would seriously reconsider declaring war on, and coming after, those who feel so strongly about armed self-defense against tyranny that they proudly declare their affiliation with an organization whose purpose is the preservation of that right. Like I said, "logical minds would think twice," so immediately after you read reports of ANTIFA confiscation rallies, be on the lookout for bullet-riddled ANTIFA corpses littering the streets.

[mad.casual]

How is that even possible? Isn't it a private organization?

Slavery was a private institution, it got abolished. QED.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Are you arguing for a constitutional amendment to abolish the NRA? I don't even...

[mad.casual]

I'm not personally advocating it, just pointing out that the republic has already torn itself in half and compromised it's principles on the who "How do we deal with private institutions we don't like?" issue (more than) once.

There are plenty of people who openly state that we need to repeal the 2A and that Citizens United was wrongly decided. I'm not saying there are enough of them to hold a Article V convention tomorrow, just that the portion is considerably different from zero or not possible.

[Domestic Dissident]

That guy gets it.

The good news is that the most of these Weigelian JournoList scumbags and their astroturf gutter brownshirts are too much of a fucking pussy to actually try to back up the threats they like making on Twitter.

[Citizen X - #6]

Astroturf Gutter Brownshirts would be an awesome name for a band.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Hope Hicks will resign from her position as White House communications director.

She had hoped she wouldn't be surrounded by hicks.

[loveconstitution1789]

Everyone knows that media hippies are smelly.

[sarcasmic]

aye

[Aloysious]

I've got a suggestion for Trump: Wiretap first, due process later.

Or is that 'different'?

[Citizen X - #6]

Old news may as well be fake news, brah.

[Aloysious]

Okay.
Hmmm...
How about: Convict for colluding with sneaky Russians, trial later.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Vladimir Putin says Russia has developed nuclear weapons capable of avoiding missile defense systems.

More dangerous is that they've gotten through our troll defense systems!

[Jerryskids]

Since missile defense systems are designed to defend against missiles, any nuclear weapon can avoid a missile defense system as long as you don't attach it to a missile. Are the Russians claiming they just invented the packing crate?

[loveconstitution1789]

That is old news.

Hillary has had a snuke for decades.

[sarcasmic]

Hope Hicks is a shining example of the power of makeup.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

Let her have her moment. Why u be hatin'.

[loveconstitution1789]

Nothing about Australia's new gun amnesty had 57,000 weapons turned in?

That must mean that bans don't work since clearly tens of thousands of Australians didn't turn in all their weapons. It also must mean there are tens of thousands more weapons.

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Most likely they turned in their crap and kept the good ones.

[loveconstitution1789]

Maybe. You never know when you need spare parts. Since any delivery by mail of gun parts are a giveaway that you have guns.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has been investigating a period of time last summer when President Trump seemed determined to drive Attorney General Jeff Sessions from his job...

Mueller has money in the drug war!

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Trump administration is expected to announce new tariffs on steel and aluminum.

Guns are made from plastic, too.

[loveconstitution1789]

* commences melting down priceless GI Joe's to 3D print lowers.

[Longtorso, Johnny]

YouTube Censors video of ANTIFA protestors making death threats

This video of ANTIFA making death threats was banned by @TeamYouTube.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Hmmm; seems like I really do need my guns.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I don't know which is worse, losing my guns, losing due process, or losing Hope Hicks...

You're 0-for-3 today Trump.

[sarcasmic]

With legs like that she won't be unemployed for long.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Someone should take those guns without due process. amirite?

[sarcasmic]

I've got some due process with her name on it.

[loveconstitution1789]

Don't you mean Do Process?

[loveconstitution1789]

Stupid gun grabbers are already giving Trump money! Hahaha.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Trump's one-man 'good cop, bad cop' routine with the NRA

"The other big point is that, for Trump, it's not about ideology, but loyalty," added Spitzer, the author of five books on gun policy including The Politics of Gun Control. "Up until recent years, he supported stronger gun laws. But the NRA threw in its lot with him early and fully, plus $30 million for his campaign. They cheer him lustily and loudly, and that's what matters most to him."

Who got played again?

[loveconstitution1789]

Gun grabbers are giving money to Trump! Haha.

Lefties have to shift their entire narrative since Trump is a Russian manchurian candidate who now might progress gun control.

Hahaha. You lefties are stupid as a bag of beans.

[Conchfritters]

Best piece of ass Corey Lewandowski ever had. Presumably the best piece of ass Rob Porter has ever had too.

[loveconstitution1789]

California ranks dead last among U.S. states in quality of life, according to a study by U.S. News, ranking behind New Jersey (49th) and Indiana (48th).

So Taxifornia's "balanced budgets" are not keeping it as the best state to live in?

[General_Tso]

If you're a wage-earner it's certainly last in quality of life.

However, if you've stumbled, burrowed or were packed into a tractor trailer to cross the border it's like going to Heaven.

[Rhywun]

I suspect bums and welfare recipients rate it somewhat higher.

[loveconstitution1789]

Its why the Southpark kids sent those bums to Californnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnia.

[Griffin3]

Interesting how this correlates with tax rate and regulatory load.

[Tony]

FOX News can't report accurately even if it tried.

Apparently FOX News is why you are as stupid as you are. Good to know.

[loveconstitution1789]

Its a Newsweek study dumb dumb.

[loveconstitution1789]

US News study. See your dumbness has rub off on muh.

[Incomprehensible Bitching]

FAKE NEWS!

[loveconstitution1789]

Yeah. US News and Newsweek are fake news outlets.

[Kim Jong Putin]

Christ, this guy ^ what an asshole.

[loveconstitution1789]

This guy ^ is an asshole who doesn't like to be exposed.

[mashed potatoes]

"Vladimir Putin says Russia has developed nuclear weapons capable of avoiding missile defense systems."

Form everything I've read, our missile defense program is just a money laundering program from defense budget to contractors with some make-work thrown in there.. I'm guessing minimal upgrades were needed to defeat it since it doesn't really work or do much.

[loveconstitution1789]

Various ABM systems have shot down missiles. Extended range SAMs from naval ships can shoot down ICBMs now too.

I personally think it more to keep what the USA capabilities and plan is hush until we need it. In other words, some country like North Korea shoots nukes at the USA. The USA shoots down the nuke missiles. The USA then proceeds to obliterate North Korea off the face of the map.

Lesson for other tyrants like Putin that the USA carries a big stick...in defense of itself. Since these moron tyrants have not learned anything from the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor.

[sarcasmic]

The success rate for shooting down missiles isn't worth bragging about.

[loveconstitution1789]

Its not 100%, so good point.

On the other hand, nothing scares the shit out of countries that spent trillions on nuke weapons and hope that MAD will save them only to be outdone by the USA again which can now shoot down most/all of those expensive toys.

[sarcasmic]

It's a lot less than 100%. More like 50%. On a good day.

[loveconstitution1789]

According to Armscontrol.org, Aegis shootdown record is 33 out of 40; THAAD has 14 out of 14 successful shootdowns; Ground based defense shotdown 10 out of 14; Patriot has combat record of 11 Iraqi Scuds and two friendly fire hits.
ABM missile record

So more than 50% but less than 100%.

[Kivlor]

Sarcasmic is right on this, unless there have been some updated statistics that I'm aware of. The odds of success are ~50%, which is better than zero, but still not very good.

Putin said publicly several years ago that Russia was not going to seek to build their own ABM program, but instead was putting money into what they thought would be viable and less expensive alternatives to overcome our ABMs

[silver.]

Didn't know Russia was trying to overcome our missile defense. That's pretty unsettling. I think they're a bigger geopolitical threat than China and North Korea.

[loveconstitution1789]

ABMs pretty much make MAD worthless. Especially, if the USA has ABM defense and Russia doesn't.

Russia is decades behind the USA in ABM technology. Of course, China has been stealing our technology for decades. Russia is probably getting it on the cheap.

[Kivlor]

Silver, Russia doesn't pose half of the geopolitical threat that China does. Think of it this way: Russia has an economy roughly no par with Mexico. They're not an economic powerhouse. Their population is in decline, like ours, and much like the US, they have a large interior that is sparsely populated.

Russia has been very clear--Putin particularly--that their goal is to maintain the status quo. They want to ensure MAD because A) that ensures no one decides to invade their sovereignty and B) MAD has been the basis under which the Pax Americana has allowed the world to flourish over the last 60 years. Most of our fears of Russian Imperialism are a leftover phobia from the Cold War.

[loveconstitution1789]

Kivlor. I tend to think China is a big threat too. The are not building those man-made islands in the South China Sea for nothing. War with China would allow the USA to cancel all debt with them, but it would be messy because we could not conquer China and China could not conquer the USA.

The Russia aggression did include The Crimea, so its not like Russia is sitting on their hands. Plus, most non-Russians don't know this but Russia considers all past Russian territory as theirs forever. This would include: Finland, Ukraine, Belarus, all the ...Stans, the Baltc states, and parts of China.

So not necessarily phobia but they are not as strong as Putin tries to imply.

[Kivlor]

LC, the Russians have been very open about not being interested in developing an ABM program because they deem it too costly to be effective. Consequently, they will be "decades behind us" in that tech, as they are not bothering to develop it.

Of course, the real future of warfare is drones IMO. And the Russians seem to realize this as well. Cheap civilian drones that have been outfitted with very simple mods and small payloads can wreak havoc for almost no cost at all. And because of their insignificant profile, slow speed, and low flight path they are damn hard to notice and intercept with modern detection systems

[loveconstitution1789]

Drones are the future, I think. You can use drones to circle ICBM launch sites and hit the missile as its taking off and have drones in the upper atmosphere to intercept ICBMs coming in. Kind of what the 'Star Wars' program projected satellites would do.

What you can do with drones is almost limitless.

[Kivlor]

As I recall, one of the downfalls of ABMs is that they have to be relatively close to the launch point. Once an ICBM builds up enough speed, the odds of shooting it down become basically zero. It wouldn't take much to overcome our ABMs even if they were pretty good, since all you need is sufficient distance between the ABMs and the launch point.

[loveconstitution1789]

The US strategy is mainly destroying the ICBM on mid-phase. Boost phase is too hard and terminal phase only give interception about 1 minute since nukes would be coming in at over 3,200 km per hour.

[loveconstitution1789]

Trump Stuns Lawmakers With Seeming Embrace of Gun Control

Trump is going to troll gun grabbers by getting them to donate money to his campaign for gun control and then use that money to get Republicans reelected in Congress or for his reelection. Of course, more unconstitutional federal gun control will be log-jammed with bureaucrats for years.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

This guy isn't even playing chess any more!

[loveconstitution1789]

He is. You just are losing, so you left the gameboard.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Uh, I'm on your side on the gun debate... We're all losing.

[loveconstitution1789]

Not gun owners like me.

MAGA!

[MasterThief]

I still have trouble believing that Trump strategizes in such a manner, especially in a partisan manner for Republicans. It really seems like he shoots from the hip and is more interested in loyalty and adulation than principles.

[mad.casual]

At best it's a generation of copious amounts of errors in order to make a comedy of them.

[Conchfritters]

"....according to people familiar with the matter who said that a key area of interest for the inquiry is whether those efforts were part of a months-long pattern of attempted obstruction of justice."

You ruminate over firing an incompetent dumb ass like sessions, and that's illegal? I'm starting to think that obstruction of justice will be perverted to mean whatever the hell they want it to mean, as long as Trump goes down.

[loveconstitution1789]

It will be a great way to get rid of 'ol war on drugs Sessions since getting him out of Congress would have been tough.

Get Sessions to accept cabinet position and voluntarily leave Congress.
Get Sessions to be labelled incompetent.
Fire Sessions from Attorney General position.
Sessions sits at home with the millions he squeezed from taxpayers.

[Jordan]

Sen. Ben Sasse: "We have the Second Amendment and due process of law for a reason. We're not ditching any Constitutional protections simply because the last person the President talked to today doesn't like them."

Only stupid cucks support the Constitution.

[Longtobefree]

So they have repealed asset forfeiture and no one reported it?

[Rebel Scum]

President Donald Trump: "Take the guns first, go through due process second."

For fucks sake...

[Necron 99]

Can you even call it "due process" at that point? I think that would just be called "a process".

[MarkLastname]

It's still due, you're just not getting it. Overdue process.

[Rebel Scum]

Hope Hicks will resign from her position as White House communications director.

This is how I feel.

[Conchfritters]

There is no hope left.

[Rebel Scum]

She was my only Hope.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

There's still Hope Solo. Just don't piss her off, or she will kick your ass.

[Rebel Scum]

That she could beat me up only makes it hotter.

[cgr2727]

Is she Kylo Ren's sister?

[loveconstitution1789]

I hope she does okay.

It had to be tough fending off nutty leftists and their TDS while trying trying to destroy the USA.

[Rebel Scum]

Sen. Ben Sasse: "We have the Second Amendment and due process of law for a reason. We're not ditching any Constitutional protections simply because the last person the President talked to today doesn't like them."

It looks like somebody's...

*dons sunglasses*

feeling sassy.

[loveconstitution1789]

A Senator's balls dropped? Well, that's a nice surprise.

[Old Mexican - Mostly Harmless]

President Donald Trump: "Take the guns first, go through due process second."

He's just trolling the lefties. A Trumpista told me so, therefore it must be true!

Sen. Ben Sasse: "We have the Second Amendment and due process of law for a reason.

Yes, senator, we have them so that Trump can make a show of conciliation by stomping on both.

Hope Hicks will resign from her position as White House communications director.

She's single again!

The Trump administration is expected to announce new tariffs on steel and aluminum.

Making America Grating Again, one trade war at a time.

Stable genius and all...

Vladimir Putin says Russia has developed nuclear weapons capable of avoiding missile defense systems.

These are smooth-talking missiles we're dealing with, girls!

[Maddow's Fleshlight]

Isn't it sad how Trump has made previously reasonable people turn so completely into gibbering idiots?

[$park? leftist poser]

I'm not sure I've seen a gibbering idiot who was previously reasonable so I'm not sure we can properly judge the sadness of such an event yet.

[Old Mexican - Mostly Harmless]

Re: Maddow's Fleshlight,

Isn't it sad how Trump has made previously reasonable people turn so completely into gibbering idiots?

He has that gift. Before his candidacy, perfectly reasonable people were more or less in favor of free trade but definitely against tariffs. After Trump, they became protectionist dolts, spewing the least sophisticated and economically ignorant claptrap. Like, overnight.

Or maybe they were Fascist hypocrites who im the past were trying to blend in with the libertarian "it" crowd by pretending to be something they weren't.

Because that's who you're talking about, correct? I want to think you're not being ridiculous.

[silver.]

"He has that gift."

He really does. I'm sure the liberal campaign strategists have been studying how he was more popular than their botox-faced lizard person. I feel like a lot of my otherwise reasonable, centrist acquaintances are becoming militantly progressive simply because of lack of exposure to alternative viewpoints. Interesting stuff.

[mad.casual]

Before his candidacy, perfectly reasonable people were more or less in favor of free trade but definitely against tariffs.

Check your flaps OM-MH, you're veering into TDS territory. The notion that no one opposed the TPP until Trump did is kinda batshit crazy on a couple of levels. You might have a point with regard to Mexico specifically but US-Mexico hardly represents the totality of free trade and/or globalization.

[BYODB]

In fact the US-Mexico position is that free trade is a bad thing. Their position is really that managed trade is the best thing ever. Not really the same thing, no matter how many people want to pretend that it is.

[Rhywun]

"We're not ditching any Constitutional protections simply because the last person the President talked to today doesn't like them."

Meow.

[John]

Trump has apparently lost his mind on the 2nd Amendment. I am still skeptical anything will pass. Until something passes, I am not going to worry about. I don't really care what these people say. I care what the do.

If something passes it will leave 2nd Amendment supporters with two very bad options. They could vote the Republicans out of office and then watch the Democrats do something much worse or not vote them out of office and let the Republicans know they can get away with surrendering on the 2nd Amendment. Either choice is horrible and it is hard to see anything good coming from them.

Republicans almost to a man neither understand the importance of the 2nd amended nor how fanatical the Democrats have become. They see guns as a distraction that can be compromised on so they can get on to whatever they think is important. They don't understand that there is no compromising with the Democrats and no gun law no matter how strict will ever get them to move on from the issue.We could ban private ownership of guns tomorrow and the Democrats would be demanding stricter punishments and more enforcement. There is no ending or moving on from this issue. There is only degrees of surrender.

[John]

This seems to be one time where Trump's genius for reframing the issue has failed him. The problem with the whole "we need a compromise" way of looking at this is that it assumes that there are no gun laws now. Guns are as anyone who pays attention knows one of the most strictly regulated things in existence. Glenn Reynolds had the brilliant idea that what Congress should do is draft a bill that recodifies all of the existing federal gun laws. People on both sides of this issue would be shocked at how strict such a bill would be. The truth is gun rights supporters have been compromising and giving up their rights since the 1920s. And it is of course never enough. Drafting such a bill would both educate the public and change the focus from "let's pass new laws" to "let's enforce the laws we have".

I honestly think that if people understood just how strict gun laws actually are, everyone outside of the 25% or so of the country who are true fanatics would be shocked at how strict they are and if they wanted more done would be asking why the laws that exist are not being better enforced.

[sarcasmic]

In any compromise with the left, liberty loses.

[John]

Yes. And it is never a compromise. A compromise means the issue is settled. No issue is ever settled with a leftist until they get everything they want and most times not even then. So, making a deal with them is not making a compromise. It is giving them progress towards their goal and giving them a new starting point when they inevitably come back and demand more.

[Libertymike]

John, sarc's words are a variation of what my Russian language prof used to tell me regarding negotiating with the commies: Comprise? Yes comrade, we are willing to discuss comprises to your position.

Good ole Eddie Flanagan. John, knowing you, you would have loved the guy.

[loveconstitution1789]

Gun owners already know how strict the laws are and gun grabbers will always work toward taking guns, so all those laws are not enough... for the safety of kids.

[John]

But not everyone is a gun owner or a gun grabber. There is a large percentage of the population somewhere in the middle. And gun owners have allowed the gun grabbers to frame the issue such that those people have no idea how strict our gun laws actually are.

[loveconstitution1789]

True. Those people are important because many of them have zero idea how the constitution works.

Convincing them that gun control is unconstitutional without a new amendment like the alcohol prohibition is important.

[Jerryskids]

Trump hasn't lost his mind on 2A - as a liberal New York RINO, he's never been any kind of supporter of 2A. Remember the whole "New York values" thing when he was asked about his pro-choice stance on abortion? Same thing - it's no accident that New York City has a socialist mayor that makes your average Democrat look like Barry Goldwater by comparison.

[loveconstitution1789]

Jerry, Trump is trolling gun grabbers. They are already giving him money for gun control.

[John]

I think he is more of a typical Washington Republican who views the issue as a nuisance and something to be dealt with to move on to something else. I don't see Trump as any worse than most of the Republicans in Congress. Most of them don't own guns or really care or understand much about the issue. They only support gun rights out of sheer survival instinct and would walk away from them the moment they thought doing so was in their interests. There are a few Republicans who understand the stakes of the issue but not many. Most support gun rights out of electoral necessity and nothing else.

[Rhywun]

Remember the whole "New York values" thing

Ugh that sets my teeth on edge.

[Rhywun]

Oops... plugin fail. If greasonable is around can he explain why hitting the blockquote link instead acts like "Submit"?

Anyway... that "New York values" garbage is what allows a clown like Deblasio to claim moral superiority after attracting a whopping 17% of the voting age population. Unlike that loser, I talk to real (private sector! I don't know anybody who works for the gummint) New Yorkers all day and guess what, not everybody is asking to be lorded over by him and his goons.

[loveconstitution1789]

My understanding of NY politics is that its NYC vs the rest of NY state.

[Rhywun]

Pretty much. It's exactly why upstate is a basketcase. Cuomo runs the joint like everyone is either a rich progressive or a pubsec crony.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

The problem with the whole "we need a compromise" way of looking at this is that it assumes that there are no gun laws now.

Another problem with it is the assumption that the antigunners are negotiating in good faith. They aren't. Their idea of compromise has nothing in common with the actual definition of the word. They see "compromise" as "you give up some rights now, we'll be back for the others a bit later; we'll keep at it until we have them all".

[John]

Exactly that. They are fanatics. The one thing that gives me some optimism about this is that Trump seems to really think armed teachers is a good idea. There is no way the Democrats will ever agree to such a thing. There is no way the Democrats will ever agree to anything even remotely reasonable. So, I really don't see how he makes any kind of a deal with them or anything comes of all this. Trump is either trolling them and knows nothing will come of it or is naive and honestly thinks that there is a way to make some kind of deal with the Democrats that includes reasonable measures regarding gun ownership and carry. I have no idea which it is. But whichever it is, the result will likely be nothing ever coming of this.

[loveconstitution1789]

Teachers are already armed in some states. Georgia and Texas off the top of my head.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

They have them in Colorado, too, albeit in the rural areas.

Honestly, though, I'm not sold on arming teachers. Are we forgetting exactly who largely makes up this demographic? Progressive women and soyboy men, and education programs are not exactly known for their rigorous curriculums. The pay, licensing restrictions, and ridiculous "testing over learning" culture serve to keep out subject experts, artificially dumbing down the class even further.

Most teachers, especially the ones in urban and suburban areas, can't be trusted with a Nerf dart gun much less an actual firearm. There's a reason nearly of these school shootings happen in suburban areas--the urban ones are locked down like prisons to begin with and rural areas are reliant on high-trust community bonds for their survival. These aren't features of a typical American suburb, which is largely inhabited by cotton-soft people who have no clue about violence or how to handle it.

[sarcasmic]

Allowing teachers to arm themselves is not forcing them to be armed.

The ones who do not deserve to be trusted with a firearm will opt out.

[loveconstitution1789]

There will be one event of a school shooting with an armed teacher saving the day and the discussion of "Should we arm teachers?" will never be remembered.

[Old Mexican - Mostly Harmless]

Re: John,

If something passes it will leave 2nd Amendment supporters with two very bad options.

Yeah.

Don't say you weren't warned.

A Hitlery regime would have been in a very tough spot doing anything meaningful with a downright hostile Congress and Senate plus a much stronger liberty movement.

Now, thanks to your "build that wall" pals, the Republicans are crumbling and the anti-liberty crowd is gaining territory. You only have YOU to blame. I told you so. I told you, you can't trust a man who says ANYTHING to get his way.

[Ken Shultz]

"A Hitlery regime would have been in a very tough spot doing anything meaningful with a downright hostile Congress and Senate plus a much stronger liberty movement."

Hillary would have done everything she could with an EO after Vegas--if not before. She campaigned on fighting against gun rights, FFS.

And Hillary couldn't have gotten anything through a Republican congress.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

That's the point Ken. Electing Trump is going to be more destructive to gun rights because he's supposedly one of the good guys. Electing a gun grabbing leftist would have been more status quo: obstruction from the right to the gun grabbing agenda.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

^ This is about the most accurate assessment I've seen.

Look what Obama did FOR the liberty movement through his incompetence!

Look what Trump is doing TO the liberty movement through his incompetence!

There is nobody left in power to protect your liberty.

[Ken Shultz]

The beatings will continue until morale improves?

We don't win anything by taking losses on this. We gain ground with baby steps.

We lose ground in big bunches.

[mad.casual]

A Hitlery regime would have been in a very tough spot doing anything meaningful with a downright hostile Congress and Senate plus a much stronger liberty movement.

I disagree. This would've been two "minority" Presidents that the left could legitimately hang the 'obstructionist Republicans'/kick me sign on.

Not to mention that now we're getting into n-dimensional chess with 536 pieces on the board. In the alternate universe where we all live in Hillary Clinton's America, we don't get the tax cuts but the borders are (more) open and the ACA is tossed to the scrap heap, right?

[John]

All Hillary could have done was replace Scalia with someone more to her liking and ensure that Heller was overturned and we no longer had a 2nd Amendment. But, hey, don't let reality get in the way of your fucking delusions.

[Rebel Scum]

Vladimir Putin says Russia has developed nuclear weapons capable of avoiding missile defense systems.

Something something foreign policy something something the 80s.

[Ken Shultz]

As promised, here's the data showing what happened to the president's party in the House election during a new president's first midterm--going back to the election of 1910.

First column is House seats won/lost. The last column is what I see as the dominant issue(s) of that midterm.

+9 1934 Franklin D. Roosevelt Great Depression
+8 2002 George W. Bush 9/11
-4 1962 John F. Kennedy Cuban Missile Crisis
-8 1990 George H. W. Bush USSR Falls, Operation Desert Shield
-9 1926 Calvin Coolidge 1st Midterm in 2nd Term (Death of Harding)
-12 1970 Richard Nixon Vietnam, Kent State
-15 1978 Jimmy Carter Energy Crisis, Inflation
-18 1954 Dwight D Eisenhower McCarthyism
-22 1918 Woodrow Wilson Broken Promise not to Enter WWI
-26 1982 Ronald Reagan Recession
-47 1966 Lyndon B. Johnson Democratic Great Society, Civil Rights Act
-48 1974 Gerald Ford Nixon Pardoned
-52 1930 Herbert Hoover Smoot?Hawley Tariff, Great Depression
-54 1946 Harry S Truman Labor Unrest, End of Wartime Price Controls
-54 1994 Bill Clinton Gun Control, HillaryCare
-57 1910 William Taft Strife within the Republcian Party (Progressives)
-63 2010 Barack Obama TARP, ObamaCare
-77 1922 Warren Harding Strife within the Republcian Party (Progressives)

The median is -24 House seats lost.

The average is -31`House seats lost.

The Republicans need to lose -20 seats in order to lose the House.

[Ken Shultz]

If "divisive" is defined as the number of House seats lost, then Trump needs to be less divisive than Ronald Reagan, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama in order for the Republicans to keep control of the House.

I'm not sure he's less "divisive" than any of them.

I maintain that this is what is driving Trump's thinking on guns. It isn't about principle. It's about trying to mute the Democrats' thunder come November. If he plays the game by the normal rules, the Republicans are likely to lose control of the House and be impeached.

So, he's going to play to marginal democrats. They won't go out and vote for a Republican, but if the Democrats can't smear him as being pro-murder spree on guns, then he's hoping they might stay home.

[TLBD]

Maybe, if so anti-gun is a stupid plan because that will keep Republicans home.

But yeah, I see what you're getting at. Trump is trying to prove he is not an existential threat to the Republic as the Dems have made him out to be.

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah, historically speaking, the threat is registered Democrats. The boulder he has to roll uphill is the hill of registered Democrats. It isn't about firing up the Republicans' base. It's about suppressing the ability of the Democrats to fire up their base.

One of the interesting things about that data is that it doesn't seem to matter what the issues are. The presidents who do well tend to do well for reasons that have little or nothing to do with their issues or policies. The beginning of the Great Depression or 9/11--the voters didn't blame FDR and Bush for that. They saw it as something that happened to them.

For Trump to win like that, it would take . . . the Big One hits California and Los Angeles falls into the sea?

What I'm getting at is that Trump is playing politics on this, but I'm not sure it will make any difference, which is tragic. The worst outcome is if Trump sells gun rights short and ends up losing to the Democrats anyway. I know he's gotta try to roll that boulder up the hill, but if he makes it over the top, it'll probably be for reasons that don't have anything to do with his position on any issue anyway. It will probably be for reasons beyond his control.

[loveconstitution1789]

Of course except for Truman, all those presidents were pretty much expected to win.

Even W. was slightly more likely to win than Gore.

Trump winning was a complete surprise for the left. I figured he would win because most of middle America supported his different attitude toward D.C. and some others hated Hillary.

[Ken Shultz]

I think it's just that Americans correctly see Congress as a check on the president. Presidents promise a lot of changes when they first take office, but Americans tend to be more or less happy with the status quo. The more a president tries to change things with his election mandate, the more the American people react by voting for the opposing party.

The pro-Republicans keep the House argument I see is that Trump is less divisive than the media would have us believe. Illegal immigration isn't as popular as people think. The new jobless numbers are lower than they've been since 1969. Democrats crossed party lines to vote for him in the Midwest and handed him wins in swing states like Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin.

I'm defining being "divisive" as the number of House seats won/lost. Not by how much you piss off the White House Press Corp. If how much a president pisses off the White House Press Corp. were a good measure of divisiveness, Barack Obama would be less divisive than Ronald Reagan. Maybe Trump is more like Ronald Reagan than Barack Obama that way.

Still, if we're talking about probabilities, Trump's chances of the Republicans holding the House are pretty slim.

[loveconstitution1789]

Could be. I am counting on new Republicans coming into the fold to replace older Republicans but won't know for sure until primaries are over.

Part of me just wants the Dems to win the House, so they try and impeach Trump. Get this civil going already.

[Ken Shultz]

I don't want to see that.

I don't want the Democrats to take the House for reasons that have nothing to do with Trump. It's just bad for business.

Trump will need to deal with whatever congress he has, and some of his positions are not that far from the progressives on economic issues--deregulation aside.

Bernie Sanders came out the other day and said "three times" that he would not vote to repeal the Trump tax cuts. I don't want to see what Trump and a Democrat controlled congress would do on free trade and guns.

Either way it goes, however, I think Trump has a really good chance of being reelected.

[loveconstitution1789]

I also am pretty excited about more young people with brains becoming libertarians.

Democrats are definitely bad for business, foreign policy, domestic policy, freedoms, and on and on.

[Ken Shultz]

"The Trump administration is expected to announce new tariffs on steel and aluminum."

Trump playing to Democrats for the Midterms also explains this. Expect more of that.

Go ahead, Democrats. Denounce Trump for being pro-free trade!

"President Donald Trump: "Take the guns first, go through due process second."

Denounce for his position on guns.

Trump dares you.

He'll move back to the right to fend off challengers after the midterms.

[Rebel Scum]

The Trump administration is expected to announce new tariffs on steel and aluminum.

These are not the economic reforms you are looking for.

[Longtobefree]

President Donald Trump: "Take the guns first, go through due process second."

Works for asset forfeiture, why not guns? Fourth ,second, what's in a number?

[Stormy Dragon]

Typical "libetarians": Trump proposes taking away the due process rights of gun owners, entire thread is about how this just proves how terrible the left is.

[loveconstitution1789]

The left has a history of gun grabbing. Trump does not. He said stuff that is unconstitutional gun control but he says all sorts of things.

It is funny what the left considers lies from Trump and the truth from him.

[Citizen X - #6]

Is it?

[silver.]

I'm seeing Trump thrown under the bus with pretty extreme prejudice in this thread. Which is appropriate for libertarians. Support him when he's not a total moron, blast him when he is. IDGAF about the man. IDGAF about any politician. They're all pieces of sub-human trash.

[MarkLastname]

Typical Stormy, doesn't actually read the thread, makes shit up out of thin air.

[Domestic Dissident]

Stupid-ass Massachusetts Obamatard gets busted sending fake anthrax to Donald Trump, Jr. and a bunch of other public figures.

[Citizen X - #6]

Good on you for attempting to continue your education into late adulthood. You fucked up the link, though.

[loveconstitution1789]

Here's a Reuters link.
Reuters story on fake anthrax letters

[BYODB]

?"Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has been investigating a period of time last summer when President Trump seemed determined to drive Attorney General Jeff Sessions from his job, according to people familiar with the matter who said that a key area of interest for the inquiry is whether those efforts were part of a months-long pattern of attempted obstruction of justice."

Umm...do you really need a pattern of obstruction of justice? Last I checked it either is or isn't obstruction of justice, and a 'pattern' doesn't matter for shit.

[loveconstitution1789]

"pattern" is legal speak for not enough evidence to convict you but we will use it against you to make you look like a criminal.

Its part of the type of government behavior that the 6th Amendment was created for and the concept of presumption of innocence.

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