Donald Trump

Donald Trump Has Destroyed the Credibility of the Presidency

There is no longer any reason to trust anything the president or his surrogates say.

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JIM LO SCALZO/EPA/Newscom

Shortly after multiple outlets published reports last night that President Donald Trump had shared highly sensitive, classified information about an ISIS plot with Russian officials in an Oval Office meeting last week, White House officials stepped up to respond with denials. The denials were hard to believe because Trump has destroyed the credibility of his office.

The most extensive denial came from national security advisor General H.R. McMaster. "The story that came out tonight, as reported, is false," he said. "At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed and no military operations were disclosed that were not already known publicly."

One reason the denial is difficult to completely buy is because it is so precisely worded. McMcaster does not actually deny the core of the initial report in The Washington Post: that President Trump conveyed classified details of an ISIS plot, shared by a foreign intelligence partner, including the location from which those plot details emerged. As a post at Lawfare notes:

These are both very carefully worded statements that leave open the possibility that classified information was disclosed other than sources and methods or that classified information was disclosed which might be used as a basis to infer sources and methods not directly disclosed. Typically, policies related to the safeguarding of classified information treat both sources and methods information and information pertaining to or related to sources and methods in the same category.

Perhaps tellingly, McMaster delivered the statement from a prepared text, and did not take questions. The format in which it was delivered, in other words, left no opportunity for expansion, clarification, or follow-up.

McMaster's denial is also difficult to believe irrespective of the particular wording. That's because both President Trump and senior White House officials have demonstrated over and over again that they will lie to the press and the public.

Consider the story that the White House spun last week after the firing of FBI Director James Comey. Press Secretary Sean Spicer initially said that the firing was a direct result of a memo sent by Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein outlining Comey's faults, and a related recommendation from Attorney General Jeff Sessions that Comey be terminated.

"It was all him," Spicer said, referring to Rosenstein. "No one from the White House. That was a DOJ decision." This explanation was repeated by Vice President Mike Pence and Senior Advisor Kellyanne Conway. Pence also denied that the ongoing FBI probe into the Trump campaign's possible connections to Russia were in any way related to the firing.

But within days, Trump himself made clear that none of this was true. The Russia investigation was on his mind when he made the decision to fire Comey. "When I decided to just do it I said to myself, I said, 'You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story,'" he said in an interview with NBC.

Trump also stated flatly that the Rosenstein memo was irrelevant to the firing. "I was going to fire regardless of recommendation," Trump said during the NBC interview. "[Rosenstein] made a recommendation, but regardless of recommendation, I was going to fire Comey."

The story that Trump's senior staff and surrogates had fed to the press in order to explain the president's actions was not true. Trump had revealed his staff to be liars.

In another way, this was less a revelation and more a confirmation of what we already knew about Trump and his communications style.Whether on important issues, such as the Comey firing, or on more trivial matters, such as Trump's inaugural crowd size or the continued existence of a Trump-branded steak business, neither President Trump nor his representatives can be trusted. The Trump team has constantly misled the public, and appears to have done so knowingly.

At this point, then, it is impossible to believe anything the White House says about any story of any level of importance without further confirmation. The White House has lost all claim to the presumption of truth.

There may be a useful lesson in this for a press corps that, in previous administrations, has sometimes been too willing to passively accept statements made by administration officials as accurate, when they are obviously shaded or shaped to serve those in power. There is some value in maintaining a level of distrust between the president and the press, and in hammering home the idea that powerful politicians should not—and indeed cannot—be trusted. Trump is building a much-needed incredulity into the media.

And yet there is also a real danger in a White House that is so patently untrustworthy, and a president who lies so frequently and so carelessly.

On a granular operational level, Trump's lack of credibility is a hindrance to effective governance and policymaking, to making government work in a way that is more honest, more transparent, and less corrupt. Trump styles himself a dealmaker, but creating lasting working relationships of the sort that make a difference in the world of policy and politics requires committing to a level of trust and openness that Trump and those in his employ have utterly decimated.

The same goes for Trump's relationship with the public, which is, in an important way, a negotiating partner in any democratic government. Trump, as the senior most figure in American government, is not only destroying faith in his own word and policies, but in the American system itself. His lies help sow systemic distrust that goes beyond his own words.

Trump's disdain for the truth makes him a poor partner, both and at home and abroad, since those he works with can have no expectation that he will keep his word, or that what he is saying at any given moment is accurate.

This should cut across partisan lines. Those who were (justly, in my view) outraged by the lies President Obama told about his health care law should be equally outraged by the Trump administration's even balder and more frequent falsehoods now.

All of this is further compounded by Trump's demonstrated ignorance about both the issues and procedures he must engage with as president. Yesterday's reports about Trump's Oval Office disclosures have generated speculation that they were somehow the product of hidden connections between Trump and Russia. But it is just as possible that Trump, who reportedly ignores the multi-page briefing sheets intended to prepare him for such meetings, did not understand the importance of the information he revealed, or the procedures that typically govern the release of classified information.

Which means that we must contend with the possibility that Trump's relationship with the truth is even more disconnected than common forms of politically expedient evasions, exaggerations, and lies. Trump may make false statements because he simply does not know or care what the truth is.

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  1. This is interesting cause sure Donald may have destroyed the credibility of the President as this article claims but (thinking outside the box) couldn’t it be argued that the media e.g., this article and the billion like it — have more to do with destroying Trump and thereby the credibility of office than he himself has achieved?

    Or have I fallen down the rabbit hole? I see a symbiotic relation between the two.

    1. Hmmm. No I suppose they are venerating the office with each article like this; like kneeling before and uncrowned king while heralding for rebellion.

      1. One basic problem, of course, is that Mr. Suderman erroneously presupposes certain things about the role of the presidency and the nature of the “American system.” One of the key policy goals of the current administration, for example, is to do everything possible to distract public attention from the outrageous “First Amendment dissent” of a single, isolated judge in our nation’s leading criminal “satire” case. Once that is fully understood, many of the criticisms we keep hearing are shown to be empty and quite off the mark. See the documentation at:

        http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

        1. Tilting at windmills again?

    2. Trump has made a number of mistakes. However, the progressives media are all Marxist traitors.

      1. The media has indeed made all information worthy of total scrutiny and they are scum for their corruption.

        I tend to agree however that trump shares some of this blame.

        He was absolutely genius in capitalizing on the suspicion of all media during his campaign. He made everyone ,that wasn’t already wise, aware of the total fraud that the press represents. As a consequence, now no news can be believed ever again.
        That means he can get away with murder as well and that is dangerous.

      2. But, to say that trump has destroyed the credibility of the presidency is laughable.

        Brak obam was the biggest fraud perpetuated on humankind in terms of dollars and capital wasted that I can think of. He was a race baiting, keynesian dipshit whore for the FED and mega banks before anything else.

        Bam’s legacy will be one of financial ruin the likes of which the world has never dreamt. Granted he just stepped on the pedal to ruin that Clinton and Bush started but he was the second biggest Marxist in the history of our country behind FDR.
        Nothing can better destroy the credibility of the president of the largest economy on earth, that was formed upon the shoulders of capitalism, than a total marxist imbecile.

        1. He was a center-left politician. That’s what you’re saying. Be a radical fuckstain if you wish, but at least acknowledge what is and what isn’t in the mainstream.

          Trump, in his uniquely moronic way, attempts to exhibit the characteristics of a tinpot authoritarian. And libertarians love him.

        2. Um, Obama can’t be both a pawn of big banks and a Marxist. Those two are very much at odds.

          The left is getting valid criticism for “Trump Derangement Syndrome.” Well, the principle doesn’t just apply to the left. If you race past the many valid criticisms of Obama (and his philosophy more broadly) in favor of painting a picture of insanity, most people are not going to take you very seriously.

          1. Funny how every Marxist government ends up with some tiny, inbred group running the show. Explain to me again how they are at odds.

            1. Because Marxism, ostensibly, is about returning power to the working class and NOT letting corrupt bureaucrats and business moguls reap all the riches of society. Anyone who could properly be considered a “Marxist” (as opposed to a tyrant or authoritarian, things associated with Marxism for understandable reasons) could not also be someone who puts banks’ interest above anything else. The two positions are in fundamental conflict.

              1. Because Marxism, ostensibly, is about returning power to the working class and NOT letting corrupt bureaucrats reap all the riches of society

                So you’re saying there’s never been a Marxist government ever, and when Tito, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Lenin, Ortega, Franceschini, Jaruzelski, Ceau?escu, Hoxha, Zhivkov, Husak, Honecker, Husak, Grosz, Le Duan and Kim Il-sung claimed to be Marxist they were only joking.

          2. “Um, Obama can’t be both a pawn of big banks and a Marxist. Those two are very much at odds.”

            Very odd thing to say;

            “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

    3. An anonymous source told me that only the President’s credibility has been damaged. The media is totally believed by everyone.

      Am I journalising right?

      1. No. How long have you heard these voices?

      2. Fess up! You’re really on the Times editorial staff, right?

    4. Precisely.

      I didn’t vote for Trump. (Hell NO! I didn’t vote for Hitlery!)

      But as someone who did NOT vote for him, it’s obvious to me that the press (“Reason” included) is not even slightly interested in giving him a chance to succeed. Trump has yet to do anything like transferring nuclear missile guidance and booster technology to the Communist Chinese (Bill Clinton) or sending over 2000 assault weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels (Obozo), but to hear the press tell it, Trump is the worst president ever.

      After all, Obozo never lied about anything important (You can keep your doctor, keep your plan and your premiums will be $2500/year less. And Bill Clinton was as honest as George Washington (“I did not have sex with that woman!”)

      If the press (Reason included) were to give the same latitude to Trump, 99% of what has been written so far would NOT have been written at all.

      With that in mind, I’m more inclined than ever to ignore the lamestream media (and Reason). If this is all they have, then they are wasting my time.

      1. Sorry, but this is an excellent example of what-about-ism. Previous presidents have said things that turned out to not be true, and even straight up lied, and been embroiled in scandal, but to equate it to what Trump is doing now – and the speed at which he’s doing it – is not reasonable. Trump is dangerous. He’s testing the strengths of our institutions in a way that should alarm all the people who live under these institutions, and at some level need them to continue functioning.

        Previous presidents have done some less than admirable stuff before, so Trump should get a pass? What the hell kind of principle is that?

        1. -Uh, lying about (you can keep your doctor, period), then taking over 1/6th of the US economy, then changing that very law willy-nilly as he saw fit was NOT “testing the strengths of our institutions”?
          -Uh, signing an agreement with a nation that holds daily (yes, daily) “Death to America” demonstrations that requires us to protect their nuclear weapon making facilities (yes, the agreement does do that) was not “dangerous”?
          -Uh, sending several hundred million dollars in cold, hard, palletized cash to the same “death to America” mullahs was not “dangerous”?
          -Uh, letting a US Ambassador be killed, sodomized, dragged through the streets, then lying about it to the nation, then arresting some completely innocent never-before-heard-of videomaker and keeping him jailed for a year is somehow less offensive to American values than what Trump’s doing?
          And where do you get off saying that previous presidents straight up lied and were embroiled in scandal when your most recent adored president lied consistently, and was never, ever “embroiled in scandal”. The same press that is daily passing off innuendo and straight out lies to hurt Trump was never interested in anything that shown even the slightest dirt on Obama’s administration. Their 8 straight years of covering the news, with a pillow, until it died, has given us no reason whatsoever to believe their daily tin-hatted screeches about how the country is now in dire straights.

          1. Who said i adored Obama?

            All of your examples are simply cases where you personally disagreed with the politics of the move, and are choosing to interpret it in the worst, most nefarious light possible.

            The ACA is flawed, I won’t argue that. But it was passed through democratic means, jumping through every hoop our system has. You might not like it, but it’s not illegitimate. Obama’s most infamous talking point of the ACA has been proven wrong, and he was rightly excoriated for it. I don’t really see what point you’re making here.

            The Iran deal has received a great deal of praise from the international community. Again, you might disagree with the politics, but that doesn’t make it some awful, illegitimate deal. When you’re not just an internet commenter, you don’t always get the luxury of maintaining a perfect ideological position. Diplomacy and concessions are necessary, even with disreputable people.

            If the press was so successful at suppressing negative stories about the Obama Administration, how come so many of these things (Bengazi, Fast and Furious, etc.) are so widely known?

        2. The lame stream media is creating 99% of this hysteria. How is Trump dangerous? He hasn’t been able to do anything with all of the resistance from the left and the Rhino Republicans. So far the MSM has made things up and used “un-named sources” as confirmation of their stories. Let me give a good example of the biggest lie told by the MSM. The media told us through the entire campaign cycle that Hillary was going to win, Trump has no chance. They did that all the way up to the last minute on election night. As a result millions of Hillary supporters figured the MSM was on target so they did not bother to vote. We all got suckered by the MSM because they knew damned well Hillary was losing. But guess what, no outrage from anyone on the left about this fraud and deception. And what is really sad, is that you all STILL believe the MSM’s every word. No proof of the allegations made, just “in-named sources”.

        3. In order for Trump to have destroyed the credibility of the Presidency there must have BEEN some before he got there. It’s not whataboutism to point out that his predecessors already destroyed it. Lest we forget his direct predecessor’s administration successfully weaponized the IRS and the EPA against their opponents, and magically unmasked “incidental” intercepts involving American citizens. In Suderman’s mind crashed hard drives are just a coincidence…

          1. Don’t confuse YOUR lack of trust in the presidency with a lack of trust generally. The population as a whole has a good deal of trust in the president as an institution, and the US government as a whole. To remain a functioning society, that trust is absolutely necessary. I find it extremely cavalier, immature even, to cheer for the collapse of the trust that holds this whole thing together.

            1. So as long as 51% of a bunch of retarded assholes like you trust the president because of their partisan sympathies, we’ve absolutely nothing to worry about.

              1. LOL..I trust trump a lot more then Killary KKKlinton. Queen of lies!

    5. Most of us stopped trusting anything any president said 40 or 50 years ago.

      1. This.

    6. What is interesting is you concede the possibility he destroyed the credibility of the office yet questions if the people reporting his actions are responsible. By your logic if a victim of a crime reports it, are they culpable? If a man’s friend tells his wife he is cheating on her did that friend ruin the marriage or was it the mans actions? I suppose it all depends on how much you sympathise with the guilty party, and how much responsibility you believe a man should take for his owns actions and behaviour. Considering your thought process leans towards this idea in the first place i am gonna guess your sympathy lies with Trump rather than the people who are just reporting on his own words and actions. BTW symbiosis typically denotes a beneficial relationship. I hardly think that is the case here.

  2. Weird, I didn’t know there was any credibility to begin with. When did that happen?

    1. Trump has to be careful, or the White House press corps. might turn against him!

      1. Yes, and you may have to move a bit to your left so that you can keep sucking his taint. That will be inconvenient for you

        1. Right, because anyone not hysterically ranting against him is a sycophant.

          1. They’re almost balanced by those hysterically ranting for him. For example, your “marxist traitors” quip above.

            1. They are Marxists idiots though. They just don’t know it. Just like all leftists are inherently marxists in their moronic brainwashed heads. They just haven’t taken the time to know how dangerous Marxism really is so they think they are benevolent.

              I wouldn’t call them traitors. Just dumbasses.

              1. Pretty much.

                Progs freak out when you call them Marxists because they don’t know they espouse Marxist views.

                1. Oh, but if you meant what’s their BIGGEST role? Yah. You’re right. But they aren’t called “dumbasses”. They’re called “useful idiots”.

              2. Why not call them traitors? It’s what they are.

                1. It’s this kind of hyperventilating bullshit that bothers me about partisans. The majority of those on the left have no economic training whatsoever. There are some pockets in academia that are in fact Marxists, but most of the rest can be forgiven for their childish ignorance of basic fundamental market forces. Most leftists I know mean well…and they are NOT traitors. And you spewing this kind of hate only makes you look like an unhinged asshole to anyone not within the friendly confines of right-wing websites.

                  1. Well, as long as they mean well. You know, like Chavez or Castro. But at least they believe in all those civil liberties like speech. Er, um, nevermind.

                  2. The president calling people teabaggers for opposite his tax increases was fine and dandy though. The ratbagging teafuckers, after all, meant ill.

                    Spewing this kind of retarded shit only makes you like a simple minded retard to anyone not within the friendly confines of your retard echo chamber. Break it off in your asshole.

              3. Dumbass traitors?

          2. Unlike them, I am capable of admitting that Trump has made a number of mistakes and that the guy is a mixed bag. I don’t ever put these people on pedestals.

        2. Shouldn’t you be humping your Hillary waifu right about now?

          1. Get a room, you guys. All of you. Have a big red and blue orgy.

            1. Doesn’t it feel to great to take partisan positions in every single thread you post in, yet be so far above the petty teamsmanship of partisan politics, you pathetic hack?

        3. Reason is not your personal erotica site.

    2. The whole premise that any President in near past, Congress or the media has any credibility is false, so….

      The media is just amping up their TDS. I saw an article heading of Merrick Garland as FBI Director. This is ridiculous as Trump would never nominate that guy.

      I just crack up that Reason and the media think they are influencing how Trump is doing things. The media makes up retarded claims and Trump tweets. The media then spends weeks in their bubble while Trump and/or Congress rolls back some other Government excess.

      1. They are truly behaving like children – when people attempt to ignore their juvenile antics their response is scream louder.

      2. I saw an article heading of Merrick Garland as FBI Director.

        Republican Senate Majority leader suggest making Merrick Garland FBI director (incidentally freeing up space for another appeals court nomination in the process), and that qualifies as proof of Democrat TDS?

      3. I just crack up that Reason and the media think they are influencing how Trump is doing things.

        It also leads a lot of people to just ignore libertarians, period. Reason is still one of the major “voices” of libertarianism but it seems to have little in common with libertarianism.

        1. “Reason is still one of the major “voices” of libertarianism but it seems to have little in common with libertarianism.”

          And they’d have gotten away with it if not for you rotten kids.

        2. Reason is still one of the major “voices” of libertarianism but it seems to have little in common with libertarianism.

          I had to defend libertarians the other day by explaining that NALALR – Not All Libertarains Are Like Reason.

  3. TDS Alert. More like Trump has destroyed any credibility the media had left. Such screeching and hollering since November, much of it from the same outlets that were silent for 8 years under Obama. Give me a fucking break.

    1. You have a fucking break waiting as you jump into traffic.

      Stat.

      much of it from the same outlets that were silent for 8 years under Obama
      Another lie.

      And here’s the easy Google for that, you asshole: http://wapo.st/2pR2h2t

      But the simplest explanation for outlets not reporting as many lies from Obama? He did not lie as much as this sack of shit and his surrogates.

      1. I know the media was blasted for having ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome) during his 8 years.

        It was crazy with the media discussing for weeks on end about:
        – TARP being a ridiculous waste of money
        – Operation Fast & Furious
        – ObamaCare being a waste of money and an unconstitutional mandate
        – Spying on journalists
        – IRS scandal with conservative non-profits
        – Benghazi
        – NSA Spying
        – Bergdahl
        – Iran ransom paid
        – VA death list scandal
        – Solyndra
        They also said to get ready for Obama’s impeachment. It was a crazy 8 years!

        1. You forgot Obama’s claim that the Fifth Amendment gave him the power to order the liquidation of any American that Obama secretly decided is an “imminent threat” based on secret Obama criteria.

          Man, the media almost went as insane over that as they did to Hilary Clinton’s claim, at the very outset of the first presidential debate, that recessions are caused by taxes being too low.

        2. All of those are bullshit. Every single one. There may be a stubbed toe or two of scandal in that entire list. You rightwing moron.

          But since you’re so invested in even the most asinine of hysterical fake scandals, I can think of one or two real scandals going on now that should just jiggle your bowl full of jelly in excitement.

          What? All this Trump stuff is just media conspiracy (I’d like to hear how that works someday). Not like that Holocaust II known as Benghazi.

          1. Yeah, haha, Benghazi. The SOS getting half a dozen people murdered by a vicious mob of religious fanatics and blaming it on YouTube was just petty partisanship. Trump being accused without evidence of sharing intelligence, with is well within the purview of his authority as president, NOW you’ve got a story.

            Go eat the shit of your boyfriend’s asshole you piece of shit faggot.

            1. That last line in particular I think really put your argument over the top.

              Ever heard of Wikipedia you cousinfucking crackbaby?

      2. TDS Alert. If you can’t accept the vast majority of the media is partisan left, then I can’t help you. The same people that cheered or stayed silent when Obama, for example, deported millions, now trip balls when Trump has a temporary travel ban.

        A major reason Trump one was a fuck you to the media, and to people like you

        1. Obama’s ‘increased deportations’ narrative is a lie. They changed the way they counted deportations to include people turned away at the border.

          1. Eh, it’s true that the definition changed, but it’s also true that more people than ever are being deported, more resident illegals than ever are being scooped up and detained/deported by ICE, more (/all) deportees are being fingerprinted and having their entries recorded … and Mexico border crossings down significantly over the past couple years. … it’s also true that most of this began with Bush II or earlier, and that Obama, like Trump, was/is merely continuing the enforcement of at least decade-old policies.

            Sadly for all blinkered partisans, the truth is that there has been near-universal continuity from Clinton to Bush to Obama on most policy matters, and most of Trumps “reversals” of Obama-era changes have been executive orders overturning executive orders.

            It’s pretty depressing to read so much partisan bullshit in the comments here, where I (for some reason) expect Reason readers to be better at seeing through the partisan bullshit…

          2. Ya gotta love how Obamabots have an excuse for everything Obama. “You know, when he said you could keep your doctor, he didn’t mean your medical doctor. He meant that anyone with a PhD would still have their PhD. He misspoke. He meant to say “If you have your doctorate, you can keep your doctorate, period.”

      3. TTTTTTUUUUUUULLLLLLPPPPPPAAAAAA……fuck off

      4. WOW blue star.

        You really love brak obam.
        Did you not figure out what a fraud he was?

        You’re on the wrong site to argue who is better between trump and the pimp. They both are anathema to what smart people strive for.

    2. The flip side of course would be the silence of the right wing media outlets that were screeching and hollering all 8 years of Obama’s presidency.

      At least Reason’s been screeching and hollering against both.

      1. Plenty of “right-wing media” isn’t fond of Trump. Breitbart and FNC aren’t the only members of the right-wing media.

      2. As soon as Trump actually does anything in office you’ll probably see the right wing media call him on it – especially since he’s going to renege on every promise and sop he made to the right.

  4. Read my lips no new taxes

    I did not have sexual relations with that woman

    If you like your plan, you can keep your plan (and save $2500)

    1. Aw, you found three lies from three Presidents and that makes it OK for you to accept every lie from Drumpf.

      Carry on, clinger!

      1. Don’t you have a Samantha Bee viewing party to attend or something?

        1. Who needs Samantha Bee when you have soon-to-be Washington Post columnist Suderman?

          1. This blue star is shaping up to be one dumb shit.

            MAybe Tony with a new call sign?

      2. Not just lies – lies that promoted a plan to take over 1/6 of the entire US economy and trash it.

        But let’s not stop there. What about the gun-smuggling operation: “Fast & Furious”? The official lie was that the guns would be “traced” after they crossed the border – but there was no way to track them. The lie made no sense on its face. When it came to Eric Holder being called before Congress to explain why FBI, ATF, DOJ, DEA and ICE were all collaborating to traffic more than 2000 assault weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels, Obozo swooped in with purely Nixonian “executive privilege” and the press just let him cover it up and uttered not another peep.

        My read on the situation was Obozo was fulfilling his “pledge” to “do something” about gun control by amping up the number of murders in Mexico committed with US -sourced firearms. His claim that “90%” of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico were from the US was proven false – and the new plan was to make sure MORE guns from the US went to criminals in Mexico so the number of murders with “US guns” would go up – prompting a new rationale for more gun control in America.

        If someone has a different hypothesis that makes MORE sense, please share. I’ve not yet heard one. But I think if all the evidence were out, Holder and Obozo would be standing trial for 2000 counts of gun trafficking and 2000 counts of conspiracy. A one-year conviction on each count would be about what they deserve.

        1. I think pretty much explains F&F.

  5. I think the credibility of the presidency was lost long ago before Trump. thats partly why he was elected

  6. Whoa! Whoa! WHOA!

    So soon? People, we have 7.5 years, give or take, to go.

    There is no longer any reason to trust anything the president or his surrogates say.
    Gee, that would be almost all of the GOP, especially in Congress.

    1. Hey it’s Sharia Blue!

      How much is Brock paying you to shill for the Dems on a niche site like Reason?

      1. I don’t see how this is partisan “shilling.” Is there really some other legitimate way to interpret the Trump Administration’s bumbling incompetence over the past couple weeks (/months)?

        It doesn’t take a liberal to notice what an unmitigated disaster Trump has been as a president / dealmaker / politico-CEO, strategist, etc.

        1. Trump is a NOT HILLARY amateur, but at least he hasn’t killed anybody … yet.

          1. Oh, I take that back: he did kill a few alawites who had just finished gassing some of their own.

        2. It doesn’t take a liberal to notice what an unmitigated disaster Trump has been as a president / dealmaker / politico-CEO, strategist, etc.

          And you’ll have those examples for us right away.

          What has Trump actually done so far in 4 months? Anything you can think of? Any legislation passed and signed? Any major changes to the structure of the federal government? Any new military campaigns?

          1. No. None of those things. Right?

    2. So are you suggesting that politicians on the left are not equal liars in terms of quantity and occurrence?

      If so, you must realize that you are a gullible dope. Or maybe just a government worker or college professor or movie star, or any other zombie.

  7. Peter, have you considered writing your articles in emojis?

    1. Suderman didn’t ‘write’ this article so much as select this as the moment when he would fill the details into the template he was previously given.

    2. He probably would if he was bright enough to operate machinery. His submissions come into the Reason offices in crayon.

  8. Shit! You all said it first.

    I got nuthin…..

  9. Trump is building a much-needed incredulity into the media.

    No he isn’t. The hacks will hack once Trump is out of office.

    1. It would be interesting to know if the credibility of the presidency would have taken any hits if there had been an active press corps previous to this administration.

      1. Right. They aren’t discrediting themselves now. It’s how they behaved for the past eight years that cost them their credibility. They fail to realize this

  10. So, POTUS gave intelligence to a foreign government. Intelligence that could potentially benefit said government. Intelligence regarding a group of truly heinous individuals.

    Doesn’t POTUS get to ultimately decide what can be shared and with whom? And who the fuck is throwing around the word “treason”. I mean FFS, how can POTUS not be the ultimate authority regarding classified documents?

    1. For those who only have principals, not principles, the POTUS is not “ultimate authority regarding classified documents”.

      1. Who is the ultimate authority regarding clasdified documents then?

        1. The President is.

          Of course the President can discuss classified information with foreign governments. What is he supposed to talk about, football scores?

          I’ll be interested to hear from “libertarians” how in fact we *should* be ruled by a democratically unaccountable Deep State.

          Progressitarians, get cracking!

    2. If the information is in the American’s best interest, then who cares. If we had an objective media, that would be discussed. Actually it would not because you would trust the President to make the right calls for America.

      Working with Russia helps keep Americans from dying in Syria and Iraq.

      Working with China helps keep Americans from dying in North Korea.

      Only in the minds of the media with TDS does doing something to help America go down as a bad thing.

      1. This might be true, but surely you see the problem in Trump passing along this information in a spur-of-moment, ad-hoc way, yes? Like how giving away sources so haphazardly might endanger our ability to collect this information at all?

        1. You mean like Barry’s boys bragging to the NYT about Stuxnet? That worked out well.

          1. Butwhataboutbutwhataboutbutwhatabout……

    3. When looking for instances of treason, one needs look no further than anyone who has or votes for those with a ‘D’ after their name.

      1. *facepalm*

        If this isn’t a joke, you should be embarrassed.

        1. It’s hyperbolic, but not a joke. Dems, more specifically the hardcore progressives, support an anti-comstitutional agenda that is seditious at best and often outright treasonous. These people have a lot of control over the democrat party.

          1. Progressives have been running a slow motion coup for a century that rendered the federal government fundamentally unrecognizable from an honest reading of the Constitution.

            Any libertarian want to argue that the constitution and it’s government of enumerated powers haven’t been overthrown?

  11. I have been around for 46 years and have seen the credibility of every president get destroyed-according to those who did not vote for him. The only one I can remember who lost credibility on both sides was Jimmy Carter.

  12. Can we talk about the credibility of the press?

    “WASHINGTON, D.C. — Americans’ trust and confidence in the mass media “to report the news fully, accurately and fairly” has dropped to its lowest level in Gallup polling history, with 32% saying they have a great deal or fair amount of trust in the media.”

    —-Gallup, September 16, 2016

    http://tinyurl.com/hda5s4u

    I wonder if that had anything to do with Trump wining the election.

    Incidentally, Gallup has Trump’s job approval hovering around 40%.

    http://tinyurl.com/hpxywtf

    Trump’s approval ratings are historically low for a president, but they’re nowhere near as bad as the way average Americans see the press’ credibility.

    Trump’s approval rating is higher than the White House press corps.’

    1. Hasn’t Reason already discussed the press’ credibility numerous times?

      1. I don’t know. They’ve lost a lot of credibility, and I don’t read as often as I used to.

        I’ve already written numerous comments about ‘the press who cried wolf’, myself . . . and I’m going to do it again right now: If and when Trump does something truly awful, people aren’t going to come running like they used to–because they’re sick of the press crying wolf all the time.

        It’s a relevant topic if you’re going to talk about Trump’s credibility–people don’t trust the media, generally, and they don’t trust what the media reports about Trump, specifically. Whatever Reason has attributed this to in the past, if it doesn’t include a nice helping of crow, then they missed something important.

    2. —-Gallup, September 16, 2016
      I wonder if that had anything to do with Trump wining the election.

      I wonder what those numbers are today.

    3. Trump’s approval ratings don’t seem that bad when the non-stop ravings of the left are taken into account. All those dead souls getting their opinions from Facebook and The View answer the polls more than the rational do.

  13. Donald Trump Has Destroyed the Credibility of the Presidency

    Not even 4 months into his first term and he’s already secured himself a spot in the top five Presidents of all time. I put him one spot behind William Henry Harrison.

    1. Sounds like Trump is being the Greatest just like he said he would

  14. the continued existence of a Trump-branded steak business

    Now he’s really crossed the line.

    1. Pre-cooked to well done for your convenience

      1. Of course I fscked up the quote – I meant to say that this lie has pushed me over the edge!

  15. Am I the only one who thinks that what Trump does is actually transparency and people cannot handle it?

    Just stop and think about it, rather than hide behind the dog and pony show as all politicians do, or endless talking points without meaningful substance being reinforced by all the bureaucrats being on the same page, using the same talking points. Here is a president on fucking Twitter telling you his feelz in real time.. He does not want to equivocate, he’s saying literally why he does stuff and what he did; conflict arises from the staff and bureaucrats making traditional opening moves of subterfuge only to have Trump speak plainly and railroad the expected doctrine of NEVER TELL THE TRUTH… the only notion being reinforced here is that speaking the truth is always ruinous compared to lying, a idea so simple every child learns at the age of 3 and perfects down their many years.

    I do think the Trump presidency will end early, but it will do so because of being more or less transparent in their dealings; in an age where all recent presidents have succeeded with deception.

    1. He really is the most transparent president ever. Too much of a good thing, perhaps. Would Pence be a better president from a libertarian point of view, though? Likely not.

      1. Would Pence be a better president from a libertarian point of view, though?

        Pence wouldn’t be a better president from a liberal or Progressive point of view, either. That’s one of the things that’s so frustrating about Team Blue media’s ongoing dishonesty in their drive to get rid of Trump. It’s like they just have no idea what an impeachment will result in. Haven’t even thought about it for two seconds before screaming “TREASON!”

        1. Their goal is to get Trump impeached ASAP and leave Pence with a DEM house and senate, unable to accomplish anything and replaced with a DEM in 2020. Meanwhile, they are also working to flip as many state houses and legislatures as they can. A very tall order, but in this day and age anything is possible.

          1. I disagree. I think the Democrats want no part of an impeachment. They want to leave Trump in office floundering like a fool until 2020 because it maximizes the likelihood of the Democrats winning back in the White House. The last thing they want is for Pence to take over with 3 1/2 years remaining to “right the ship” and build himself into a more formidable reelection candidate.

            Recall that in 1974, Gerald Ford, an unelected vice President, took power in the immediate aftermath of Watergate and also pardoned Richard Nixon. Just over two years later, he came within an eyelash of winning reelection. I do not think the Democrats want to come anywhere near allowing something like that to happen again.

            1. I would take Pence over Trump. All day. Pence will be a much more capable president, with much less scandal and drama. He will work much more cohesively with a Republican Senate and House, and the result will no doubt be way more legislation passed that I disagree with than we’d get under Trump.

              I’d still take Pence, without a second thought. Trump is anathema to our entire government. He is likely causing lasting damage to our country by undermining trust in experts and important governing institutions, and lowering the quality of dialogue everywhere. I would vote for the most ardent, zealous conservative in the country over him, as long as that conservative was going to operate within the bounds of normalcy and not make a mockery of US political traditions.

        2. I think it’s much less about blue vs red. I’m convinced they’re happy with the situation of trading power every now and again. This is more about establishment vs anti-establishment, which is why there’s also pants-shitting from the McCains and Grahams of the world.

          If they got rid of Trump, Pence would represent a return to establishment.

    2. It’s true. Anyone who thinks other politicians don’t do or think these same things is kidding themselves. The difference is that Trump doesn’t try to hide it. He wears it on his sleeve, even the fact that he flip-flops constantly (just like other politicians.)

    3. Am I the only one who thinks that what Trump does is actually transparency and people cannot handle it?

      I’ve considered this. He doesn’t seem to hide behind a faux persona. He seems to say what is on his mind at any given moment and it does not appear scripted, which is strikingly different from the last eight years and the Hillary candidacy. Add to that, with all his faults, at least he doesn’t sound like he’s talking down to you either. Time will tell if he stonewalls foia requests at every opportunity like that previous admin.

  16. The kind of distrust that Trump has fostered is especially bad. Save for the furthest fringe figures, when Obama came out and said that the US armed forces had killed Osama Bin Laden, everyone believed it. There’s a conspiracy for everything, but reasonable people accept these statements. They believed it when the Bush administration said Al Qaeda organized and carried out the 9/11 attacks.

    But if such a crisis hit now, any sound-thinking person would be highly skeptical of the initial claims about the nature of the incident. With certainty, you’d have to wait for the POTUS to speak because of the high probability he contradicts his aides. Even then, though, we wouldn’t know for certain which is more likely to be wrong.

    To me, it is very different from being skeptical of Obama’s claims about the effects of the ACA or Paul Ryan’s promises that the AHCA will protect people with pre-existing conditions.

    1. Those folks in Benghazi were rioting because of a slanderous youtube video with a dozen hits.

      1. I was in college when this happened, I remember hearing one quiet report that the riots had nothing to do with the movie, I said that during classroom discussion in a course named something like: Global Crisis’ and Human Rights (something like that) — the professor tanned my ass in front of all 70 students and made it explicitly clear that all rioting was because of the movie and to say otherwise bordered on, idk evil misinformation? She was pissed at me.

        I wasn’t even declarative, just said something like, “I read this article that said it had nothing to do with this movie, think there’s any truth to that?”

        1. I wish more people had that “aha moment” when you see the left for what they are.

          Most people have already had that ‘aha moment’ with the far right and using the government for your own moral good.

          Libertarianism is in the middle of left and right and the porridge is just right.

          1. I don’t see libertarians in the middle. On the scale of maximum liberty we are to the right of the right, who are to the right of the left.

            1. I don’t see libertarians in the middle. On the scale of maximum liberty we are to the right of the right, who are just another wing of the left. FTFY

        2. It’s hard to believe anyone believed that transparent lie for even one second. Some people really don’t want to put on their thinking caps.

    2. The kind of distrust that Trump has fostered is especially bad.

      The kind of distrust the Lying Media has fostered is especially bad.

  17. It’s impossible to destroy something that doesn’t exist. Claiming that Trump “destroyed the credibility of the Presidency” makes as much sense as accusing him of killing Santa Claus.

    1. makes as much sense as accusing him of killing Santa Claus.

      Don’t worry people are probably already telling their kids that Trump will kill Santa. I know lots of people who adamantly state that Trump is trying to kill us all. which is weird since who wants to be president if everyone is dead and you can’t hold that over them

      1. I know lots of people who adamantly state that Trump is trying to kill us all.

        My kids came home from school earlier this year asking me about this (they are under 10). I don’t think at their age they are getting this from teachers yet – I think their friends unstable parents are parroting this stuff.

      2. which is weird since who wants to be president if everyone is dead and you can’t hold that over them

        Necrophiliacs?

    2. See even with my Libertarian leanings I hate this stance, in my youth and in my heart I am still very much want to believe good things about America and the Presidency — as ideals, not so much as the people running it a mucking it up. But I was a little shocked when many here trashed Lincoln for being a terrible president from a Libertarian perspective — I’m just not their yet I guess… The world is just so evil I want to believe in heroes or else I’m going to kill myself, as such I want to believe in good presidents; but by my estimation they are all long dead.

  18. Take this from someone who hates Donald Trump and thinks the only value to his presidency is that it snuffed out Hillary Clinton’s further political aspirations: While I easily believe that Trump could carelessly compromise intelligence operations, I don’t believe a word from WaPo or deep staters that this was at all inappropriate, out of the ordinary or damaging. That’s how much credibility has been lost all around.

    1. What this comes down to is that had any other president done this, nobody would have even cared. It is only because of who Trump is and his personality that it is an issue. It is the assumption that he could accidentally do worse. The act itself, if we take Trump out of the equation, was normal.

      1. They treat him as the child who accidentally climbed into the driver’s seat. He’s not worthy of driving, so no matter how well he does it, he’s about to crash us all!

    2. Fist, I fucking hella respect you.

      1. Well, that goes without saying.

        1. Well, I was gonna say it, too … But, as you insist …

    3. Trump came into office wanting to coordinate with Russians on ISIS.

      His efforts have been torpedoed at every turn–and not just by Democrats and the press but by John McCain, the neocons, and the ‘deep state’, too, who see this as undermining their budgets, strategies, and turf.

      He wants to coordinate with Putin on ISIS in Syria, and sharing actionable intelligence with them isn’t the worst possible strategy. The neocons want to invade, and coordinating with the Russians gets in the way of that. Another option would be to arm resistance to ISIS, but now you’re talking about those arms likely ending up in Assad’s hands or Hezbollah’s or the Iranian Revolutionary Army–or those arms ending up in the hands of ISIS itself.

      The press would hammer Trump doing nothing about ISIS, too, but short of doing that, working with the Russians is probably the next best strategy.

      Even if Trump were wrong, going after Trump for trying to fight ISIS is like going after Bush for torturing terrorists–you’re not going to get a whole lot of mileage out of that–even if it were illegal. In Trump’s case, this isn’t illegal, and it probably isn’t a bad idea, too.

      1. As you say, on a fundamental level the neocons and the media are not getting want. The neocons are not getting endless war and the media did not get Hillary.

        The rest of the crying wolf stuff is their last ditch effort to seem relevant. People who voted for Trump are not wavering no matter what the media says. Trump is on track to do what he said he would do, in spite of those opposing him at every turn. Trump working to end fighting in Syria with Russia’s help would be a YUGE feather in Trump’s cap.

        1. The media will go after him for whatever he does.

          Their complaint isn’t with any of Trump’s policies per se–their complaint is that he’s Trump.

          But, yeah, it would be stupid if we invaded Syria to fight ISIS if Russia and its allies are already there. There is no danger of Russian-ISIS collaboration. ISIS is committed to fighting Russia’s allies in the region–including any and all Shia.

          1. Their complaint isn’t with any of Trump’s policies per se–their complaint is that he’s not Hillary.

          2. No, it’s the policies.

            Trump, at least in policy statements, is going after the root of the Progressive Theocracy and Neocon Policy.

            There is much of the “he doesn’t talk they do on NPR” as visceral opposition. I’d say that’s even stronger with the NeverTrumpers than the Left.

            But for both of them, it’s about Power. Left doesn’t want to lose government power. NeverTrumpers don’t want to lose control of the roster for the Washington Generals. Trump’s populism and nationalism hit at them both.

    4. While I easily believe that Trump could carelessly compromise intelligence operations, I don’t believe a word from WaPo or deep staters that this was at all inappropriate, out of the ordinary or damaging. That’s how much credibility has been lost all around.

      Exactly

      I vaguely recall an article @Reason from long ago, when they pointed out that the over-reliance on un-named, anonymous sources was a hallmark of shitty journalism.

      Now they seem to treat it like the gold standard; in some pieces they don’t even bothering qualifying allegations with “according to reporting from ________” – they just state allegations as established fact, and then amplify the partisan-read on whatever they think happened.

      The principal effect of all this is that i simply don’t take most political reporting seriously, and post-reporting punditry is even more worthless. The perpetual crying wolf/sky-is-falling nonsense has created contempt for opinion-floggers.

      I suppose it would be a waste of time to suggest that maybe Reason should consider doing some original reporting.

    5. While I easily believe that Trump could carelessly compromise intelligence operations, I don’t believe a word from WaPo or deep staters that this was at all inappropriate, out of the ordinary or damaging.

      I’m a Trump supporter, and I endorse this message.

      We know he’s not perfect, and lack of experience is a real issue. Clearly likes to talk, too. He could make mistakes. Likely will.

      But “President discusses classified info with foreign leaders” simply is not news.

  19. George Will nailed this when he said that Trump’s problem wasn’t that he doesn’t know things nor was it that he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know these things. His problem is that he doesn’t know what it means to know something.

    For Trump, like his predecessor, words are just tools of manipulation bearing no relationship to reality. Trump is just a clumsier, duller and more blatant version of Obama.

    1. Or Trump realized that many Americans do not want the truth. Trump’s tactic is to give give outrageous comments and then work toward a workable solution.

      Age 50+ Americans do not want to hear that Social security, Medicare and Medicaid need to be cut by 50%+ immediately. They don’t want to hear that young people like me do not want Social Security nor government healthcare.

      Trump’s advantage is that he says a bunch of stuff to keep the retards busy while he moves to cut the government. Most politicians say a bunch of stuff and expand the government.

    2. Just when I think George Will has hit peak bow tie, he smashes the record again.

      Will is simply deranged about Trump now.

      Wah! I don’t like the Orange Man! He talks about the peasants like their opinions matter. They should be listening to urbane me Me ME!

  20. So was Trump in cahoots with Boosh to ruin as much as possible during the Obama administration? Or are we just finding out that it was Trump to blame for everything all along? Dammit I need to know who to hate more.

  21. Trump’s [insert politician’s name] disdain for the truth

    I still don’t see why everyone thinks Trump is somehow especially egregious compared to any other president in my lifetime (early 90s kid here). I suppose it is his bombastic ways. Spent the weekend with my lefty gf and her parents. They all suffer from severe TDS (excpept the gf, working on her). It was exceedingly difficult to not comment on their 1) abject disingenuousness, and 2) complete hypocrisy. I had to keep hearing about “muh-russia” and how Trump lies all the time. I kept thinking, “where have you guys been the last eight years?”. Then I remembered TEAM > principle.

    1. Who is your favorite Ninja Turtle?

      1. Don’t have one. I was more of a Power Rangers kinda guy.

        1. Favorite Ranger, go!

          1. Jason (red ranger), obvs. But Kimberly (pink ranger) was my first crush.

            1. MY MAN! samesies

    2. Its always fun to insert a Libertarian jab to lefties and Republicans, if you feel ready for the wrath.

      Point out how Republicans are supposedly for cutting government but will use government to control you with moral outrage and refuse to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the military.

      Point out how Lefties are supposedly for civil rights but will use government to control you by limiting freedoms with Nanny-State outrage and refuse to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

  22. I’m not even sure why this sharing of intel is an issue. Article II: The President is the COMMANDER IN CHIEF of the armed forces. Note the IN CHIEF. If he is not authorized to share intel, no one else is.

    1. Presidential classification authority is plenary.

    2. The intelligence community doesn’t like it when anyone, even the commander in chief puts himself above them.

      I’ve long thought that the intelligence apparatus would be our downfall at some point. Like a group approach to the Lonesome Rhodes phenomenon.

      1. Deep State doesn’t like it when their rule is not deferred to.

        Outsiders like Trump think elections are real things that determines who makes decisions, instead of bread and circuses for the mob. Peasant.

  23. Anyone who thought the Presidency, or any political office, or in fact any policy-maker or -enforcer, had any credibility before Trump, was deluded to start with.

    I can’t think of any President who had any credibility when they entered office, other than George Washington, and I’m willing to cut him a lot of slack, since (a) he made a living as an inquisitive farmer who researched and experimented to improve his business, (b) he held the revolutionary army together, although I have my doubts whether said army was actually necessary, (c) he was the first President of a brand new Constitution of a like never seen before anywhere in the world, (d) he didn’t want to be President, and (e) he quit after two terms instead of hanging on for life like, say FDR.

    How far back do people go to think there was any credibility? Obama — no, a liar, a schmoozer, an empty suit who is lost without his teleprompter. Bush II? The guy could barely speak a full sentence and was flabbergasted by doors, and continued the war his father started. Clinton? Impeached over a blowjob. Bush I? Perfected his lying in the CIA and saved the Saudi throne in payback for bailing out his son. Reagan? Carter? Nixon? LBJ? How far back?

    1. Boy the way Glenn Miller played
      Songs that made the Hit Parade.
      Guys like us we had it made,
      Those were the days.

      And you knew who you were then,
      Girls were girls and men were men,
      Mister we could use a man
      Like Herbert Hoover again.

      Didn’t need no welfare state,
      Everybody pulled his weight.
      Gee our old LaSalle ran great.
      Those were the days.

    2. I cut Washington a lot of slack too. Primarily because I wasn’t there and have to depend on the media of that time, and currently, to tell me what he did and what he was like. And, who trusts the media?

  24. “McMcaster does not actually deny the core of the initial report in”

    this has become a common meme of the left yet MCMaster stated

    “The story that came out tonight, as reported, is false”

    How is that not denying the Report?? It is, its just that Reason has got on the media’s TDS bandwagon of lying about what was said by this administration

    If Trump said the sky was blue the media would claim it lie since he has no credibility something that they deemed he didn’t have

    We see through this and its only hurting the media and their sycophants. I prefer sickofanzs for the spelling

    1. At this point, then, it is impossible to believe anything Suderman says about any story of any level of importance without further confirmation.

      1. Reason use to have a point of view different from the media narrative. Not anymore.

        1. They could probably save themselves a lot of time and effort by simply purchasing their trousers pre-shat.

    2. “The story that came out tonight, as reported, is false”
      How is that not denying the Report??

      “as reported”

      That just means that *something* in the story is false.

      The “as reported” is pretty much saying, “yeah, they’ve got something there, but they weren’t totally accurate in their reporting”.

      To say “the story is false” is just to say that some statement of the story is false.

      1. It’s a fancy way of saying “you are being spun.”

        Even Suderman knows that, but they want to maintain the illusion that there was something nefarious about the whole nothingburger.

  25. At this point, then, it is impossible to believe anything the White House says about any story of any level of importance without further confirmation.

    That’s something we also call critical thinking. It’s something that should be used regarding anyone’s claims, not just Republicans.

  26. Well, there went NPR’s support.

  27. Trump’s lack of credibility is a hindrance to effective governance and policymaking, to making government work in a way that is more honest, more transparent, and less corrupt

    One might argue that the widespread belief that Obama is honest, transparent and incorruptible was a greater hindrance.

    creating lasting working relationships of the sort that make a difference in the world of policy and politics requires committing to a level of trust and openness that Trump and those in his employ have utterly decimated

    2Chill had an article just today on how no one in the world of politics actually meets these requirements and perhaps we should take this as a sign that we’ve over-empowered this office. Because he’s a libertarian.

    The lesson here is not that there’s anything unique about Trump besides his incompetence. The man-behind-the-curtain can’t seem to manage to stay there, and the curtain-worshippers are telling us that we just need a different person in there who can stay hidden better.

    The difference with Trump is not that he lies. It’s that he lies poorly.

  28. The denials were hard to believe because Trump has destroyed the credibility of his office.

    Yup. Credibility was at an APEX pre-Trump. Why, Obama didn’t lie about anything. Nor did Bush. Clinton? Paragon of honesty.

    This is like saying “Man, you turned that hooker into a real slut.”

    One reason the denial is difficult to completely buy is because it is so precisely worded.

    Again, acting as if this is a new phenomenon.

    Perhaps tellingly, McMaster delivered the statement from a prepared text, and did not take questions. The format in which it was delivered, in other words, left no opportunity for expansion, clarification, or follow-up.

    Again, acting as if this is a new phenomenon.

    In another way, this was less a revelation and more a confirmation of what we already knew about Trump and his communications style.Whether on important issues, such as the Comey firing, or on more trivial matters, such as Trump’s inaugural crowd size or the continued existence of a Trump-branded steak business, neither President Trump nor his representatives can be trusted. The Trump team has constantly misled the public, and appears to have done so knowingly.

    Didn’t the last admin brag that they got stuff passed because they lied to the idiot American voters?

  29. I saw a wolf. The only response to anything Donnie has done. When everything is a crisis nothing is a crisis.

    1. “When everything is a crisis nothing is a crisis.”

      In politics, everything is a crisis. And, nobody wants to let a good crisis go to waste.

      Without this attitude, what would politics be? Why would we even need government?

      A twisted play on cogito ergo sum

  30. Even the framers of the constitution didn’t trust the office, that’s why we have the balance of powers.

  31. It was all over once he started getting that extra scoop of ice cream.

    1. Get it? Vanilla ice cream?
      And he purposefully drew attention to it with *two* scoops – I want *more* White.

      Clearly a dog whistle to White Supremacists.

  32. So, I take it you’re in the final round of interviews at the Washington Post?

  33. For me, it was Bill Clinton, and that’s only because I was in elementary school for Reagan and Bush.

  34. If the NSA director says “Everything I’m telling you is a lie,” should we believe him?

  35. Hey, didn’t Obama demand we share intel with Cuba, who is one of the bigger espionage issues we have to deal with still? The press didn’t seem to care about that too much at the time. Even signed a memorandum to possibly have each country station law enforcement personnel in the other country in January this year.

    The only party that has lost its credibility is the press.

  36. At this point, then, it is impossible to believe anything the White House says about any story of any level of importance without further confirmation.

    I’m glad you’ve arrived at this point, but you’re late. Some of us have been here forty years or more.

    1. Zing!

      Seriously though, truly, I can’t think of any scenario where it’s in the governments interest to be fully honest. Even in patting their own back, like killing Osama Bin Laden — they didn’t initially go into the many near mishaps of the operation.

      1. Right. When you are trying to justify the incineration of other peoples money its best to not tell the truth. .

        When your whole job is to steal money from good people to give it to parasites, you probably need to keep shit on the low down.

    2. False equivalence, the hobgoblin of fucking retards.

      1. If you are complaining about how unprecedented something is, then it best be unprecedented. Otherwise you just come across as a moron.

  37. Donald Trump Has Destroyed the Credibility of the Presidency

    I hope you’re right, but you’re not.

  38. (Due to recent events involving the ingestion of a sizable quantity of mood-altering drugs, I shall charitably assume that the headline was not written by the author but rather by an editor who mistakenly left out the “what few tattered, ragged, be-gobbed shreds might remain” when referring to “the credibility of the White House”.)

    1. Heads are rarely written by authors, so, yeah.

  39. There is no longer any reason to trust anything the president or his surrogates say.

    As if there was before? And that goes for previous presidents too, not just the current Asshole-In-Chief.

    1. Lincoln gave speeches about liberty and paraded the emancipation proclamation as his deed to the world. meanwhile, he was jailing journalists who wanted to report about the war.

      Americans get their terrible corrupt press and thieving politicians because they are a stupid bunch of lazy shits who do not read their history.

      1. “paraded the emancipation proclamation as his deed to the world”

        Not really. Only applying to designated portions of the south, the EP was plainly nothing more than a tool employed during the suppression of an insurrection.

        It was only well after Lincoln that the order came to be seen as something more than it was.

  40. Dang, this implosion is entertaining!

  41. I don’t seem to recall articles calling Obama out for his lies. Damn, I coulda sworn the office of the Presidency lost its credibility under other Presidents including Obama. Jesus, we have eight years of what I regard to be an utter banal and mediocre if not supremely inept Presidency racked with its own multiples scandals and lies and here’s Reason jumping on the TDS band wagon.

    The existential threat I see has less to do with Trump and more to do with the reactionary responses to his every move. Next you guys are gonna freak out he misses the bowl when he pisses.

  42. This is new? I’m pretty sure there was nothing left after Nixon, and it didn’t even start there.

  43. What? Our government LIES to us??? I’m as shocked as Capt Renault…

  44. Annnnnnddd… STILL an exponentially better choice than Shillary.
    As long as he keeps replacing Supreme Court justices with guys like Gorsuch, I’m fine with the rest of the circus.

  45. “the credibility of the presidency”??????

    Isn’t that an oxymoron?

    How could he destroy what has never existed? At least not in my lifetime.

    Hell, even the exalted ruler of Camelot has been taken down a notch or two post assassination by factual revelations.

    Please. Get over yourselves.

    1. Looks like Reason has decided to be less so and join the hysterical ranks.

      1. Absolutely! The President of the United States should be credible?!
        Libertarians never demanded that Obama should be credible and we’re not about to demand it now!

  46. Jesus fuck. Trump says the media is fake news, and you guys suck it down like you were french kissing him. When authoritarianism comes, it’s not because, as you guys thought, the president wanted higher marginal tax rates on the rich. It’s because people like you buy every word that comes out of the fat greasy asshole’s mouth as if you were twitching cadavers instead of human beings with the ability to think.

    Where did the libertarians go? For real.

    1. I don’t suppose you’ll ever learn, no matter how many times people tell you, that this is not the residence of a hive-mind.

      1. Or any libertarians.

      2. this is not the residence of a hive-mind

        The fact that so many “libertarians” are defending Trump is a coincidence.

    2. What’s your thesis here?

      That “the media” aren’t fake news?

      Because examples abound, day in and day out, left and right.

      (I mean, even Donald Trump isn’t wrong all the time, is he? He’s brash, tends to the authoritarian, has neither gravitas nor that smooth professionalism we expect from Presidents now, nor does he have especially good policy ideas – in fact, a lot of ’em are bad.

      But even so, he still ain’t wrong all the time.

      The idea that Reason’s commentariat – who I am generally not real sanguine about either – are all rabid Trump followers is just baffling.

      Maybe you want PJM comments, instead?)

      1. You’re right, it is baffling that almost all of reason’s commenters are rabid Trump followers. You got an explanation?

        As for fake news, just fuck off. At least wait until the administration comes up with some competent anti-intellectual, anti-journalism propaganda before you let it suck you in. That crap is for the retards.

        1. Every time. Every single time, Tony. Every. Single. Time. You reveal how disingenuous and remedial in their intellectualism progressives are.

          Few, if any, like or voted for him. That being said, they’re taking issue with what they perceive to be the irrational hysterical reaction to him. Instead we’re treated to these sorts of ‘OMG! Did you see what Trump did’ articles. If I want this shit I can visit just about any liberal/progressive site.

          I do expect more from Reason. So far they’re acting like a #1 overall draft pick who is not meeting expectations.

          1. They did it with Obama too. And they gave Trump “I’m gonna cut taxes, so lay off” the predictable deference until they just couldn’t continue doing so while remaining a credible magazine, and by credible I mean not a mouthpiece of an increasingly isolated and desperate White House.

            It is time to go hysterical. Whatever you felt during Benghazi, this is infinity times that (because it’s actually real). So hysteric appropriately.

    3. Where did the libertarians go? For real.

      Free-market economics isn’t a zero-sum game, but I think libertarianism might be. The so-called “libertarians” who stormed off after making emotional threats and subsequently formed their own Reason mirror-site are just Republican cynics and malcontents. Those few who have replaced them: nihilists, anarchists, sad and unrepentant Republican partisans, embarrassed handle-hoppers, socks…

      Sad!

    4. It is always a pleasure for us uneducated deplorable to get the skinny from the typical well educate liberals with such learned abilities to communicate their only argument and simultaneously assure us we did not miss all that much. Thanx.

    5. It is always a pleasure for us uneducated deplorable to get the skinny from the typical well educate liberals with such learned abilities to communicate their only argument and simultaneously assure us we did not miss all that much. Thanx.

  47. Come on Reason. The President has broad authority to share classified information. What is wrong with this publication? This is not a reasoned article, it is anti-Trump propaganda.

    1. And he shared classified information, that wasn’t even going to allies, with an adversary’s spy chief. Nothing to see here! Trump’s a geniouous!

      1. I’d like to hear what a congressional committee inquiry determines before considering the word of an anonymous source as told by a biased outlet.

        Either way, this was the wrong way to deal with an alleged intelligence leak. ISIS knows that Israel had apparently super secret info on them, and Israel intel agencies can’t address this with our intelligence agencies in a more discrete manner.

      2. He can share classified info with allies (for frenemies, if you prefer). That’s one of his presidential powerz.

        And apparently he wasn’t briefed on the source, meaning he shared details about ISIS plot without knowing it was classified or not meant to be shared.

        Since he didn’t actually mention the source of any information that was discussed, the only way Russia can guess that ANYTHING was classified is hearing about news that Trump disclosed classified info. Even if they had never heard of any ISIS plot before it came out of Trump’s mouth, how would they know where the intel came from? Why wouldn’t they assume Trump isn’t relaying info acquired on our end?

        He shared information about a terrorist plot, not cover operations. You really think Russia is going sell this info to the Iranians or undermine Israel? Obama unfroze assets belonging to Iran and Kerry admitted that Iran would likely use that for terrorism. Holy cow, Trump derangement syndrome.

      3. Why do you assume “adversary”?

    2. The President has broad authority to share classified information.

      That classified information serves at the pleasure of the president!

  48. There is no longer any reason to trust anything the president or his surrogates say.

    So, nothing new here?

    I mean, Earth to Suderman, when was the last time you trusted a President since you became an adult?

    1. (TBF, the subhead isn’t probably Mr. Suderman’s fault, so I retract that a bit in its aim at the author.)

    2. (TBF, the subhead isn’t probably Mr. Suderman’s fault, so I retract that a bit in its aim at the author.)

  49. As if I ever believed a word that came out of his predecessor’s mouth, either…

  50. Well, first off, LTG McMaster is not a Clinton, nor does he do Clintonian. So what he says does not need to be parsed down to the individual vowel and consonant to understand what “is” is.
    Second, your idea that Trump has destroyed the office of the President by lying is laughable when you said nothing about Obama’s “you can keep your doctor, period” lie, his “Fast and Furious was started by Bush” lie, his “Benghazi was caused by a video” lie.
    Third, the idea that we need to give more credence to the WaPo report than to LTG McMaster is ignoring the fact that the media has, since November 9th, floated one outright lie after another in the hopes that they could destroy the very credibility of Trump’s presidency that you now say is Trump’s fault. The daily lies aimed to smear Trump and his administration coming from the media makes it impossible to believe anything they say.

  51. Can we consider, for example, Obama’s Iran cash payments? How did that cover-up go again? How many times was the story changed?

    How about Obama’s clarion to Putin? “After my election I have more flexibility.” regarding missile defense systems? “I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s prot?g?. “Once they were made public, the White House said Mr Obama’s words reflected the reality that domestic political concerns in the both the US and Russia this year would make it difficult to fully address their long-standing differences over the contentious issue of missile defence.” Right…

    How about “The Lie of the Year?” Lie of the Year: ‘If you like your health care plan, you can keep it’

    Then there’s the countless lies told by Trump’s election opponent. I’m not sure if Hillary is physically capable of telling the truth anymore than Trump is capable of admitting a mistake. She lied about things there was no reason to lie about–and about things so trivially checked–that even some liberal writers begged her to just stop lying.

    E.g., https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ archive/2016/08/ why-hillary-clinton-keeps-lying/493841/

    Keep going back…Bush Lied People Died…I am not a crook….

    1. But Obaaamaaa!!

      I wasn’t allowed to blame Bush for things Bush obviously directly caused one week into the Obama administration. You guys should try at least not doing outright deflection.

      1. The responses are perfectly valid regarding the claim that it’s Trump who destroyed the credibility of the presidency.

        1. Exactly. Not a tu quoque per se because they accepted Obama’s excuses full stop and face value. Don’t expect Tony to explain either or even if he did to do so in good faith.

          Sundermand made a statement as to the credibility of the Presidency being ruined under the President despite the actions of the previous clown in power.

          Let me add another: Blaming Benghazi on a stupid effen video. Not only that then shamelessly putting the guy in prison.

          Without doubt, Peter, the most cynical and inept pop culture Presidency in my lifetime.

          1. ‘Sunderman’? Yikes.

            Mr. Suderman, please accept my sincere apologies. I don’t know what came over me.

            But in all fairness, your name is a variation of two super heroes; one changed letter to Superman and meshes well with the Spiderman theme song from the 60s.

        2. Trump has put a “hurtin” on both parties and the entire establishment with his genius for over a year and counting. He knows he must run a tight ship within his inner circle but lets his orange hair fly to the consternation of the establishment and to amuse me and it just goes to prove making America great again can be fun and exciting.

        3. But he clearly is.

  52. “One reason the denial is difficult to completely buy is because it is so precisely worded. McMcaster does not actually deny the core of the initial report in The Washington Post: that President Trump conveyed classified details of an ISIS plot, shared by a foreign intelligence partner, including the location from which those plot details emerged.”

    How would WaPo know what intel was discussed? Were reporters in the meeting? Doubt it.

    Seth Page murder is more interesting and that’s why this flimsy story was released. Reason Magazine joins the other media outlets on the gerbil wheel, squeaking away and not getting anywhere.

  53. There’s no reason to trust any government actions or pronouncements. Isn’t the underlying conflict about who runs the government and controls force and threats of violence, an elected leader or bureaucrats? So far the bureaucrats are winning.

  54. Trump’s presidency is worth it’s weight in gold, if for no other reason then we get to read these hyperventilating screeds by journalists like Suderman.

    Realistically, how much has life changed under Trump? About as much as it’s changed under any other president – as in, not at all!

    I look out the window – nope, no starving people out there, no riots in the streets, all the stores are open and my place of employment hasn’t disappeared down a black hole. People are out riding their bikes and mowing their lawns per usual. For a world about to come to an end, this one is sure taking it’s time! Go Trump!

    1. What’s it like to not have any ethics? And to be proud of it?

  55. I keep getting these articles from “Reason” that have very little reasoning skills, don’t promote free thinking, and just seem to react as if people had just opened their eyes 6 weeks ago, like new born kittens and don’t know any better.
    Most presidents have lied to some extent, but none have discredited the office of the presidency with their lies, showing on many levels a contempt for and almost a hatred for the country and its citizens like Barack Obama did. He set so many bad precedents, that it is not alarming that Trump is using the exact same actions to do what he wants to do. Does it make it right? No. But it wasn’t right when Barack did them and progressives applauded the actions. But then, if you complained, you got called a racist.
    Now, its ok again to disagree with the President, like it always used to be. Except now we get articles that try to think for you, like this one, and pretend like Trump created these problems.

  56. pretend like Trump created these problems

    Trump is indeed the creator of his own fiascos. It all begins at the top. The buck stops…somewhere else.

  57. Everyone kept warning the minority president that he was destroying his own credibility and that of his spokespeople by his frequent lies and misrepresentations and that when a crises came, the public would neither trust nor believe him. Yet, he persisted, to the extent of calling the veracity of his own spokespeople into question in his unthoughtful tweets. Now, when he is suspected of committing an egregious breach of confidence of a trusted source- his denials and those of his associates are carrying little or no weight. Even previously loyal supporters are complaining and demanding explantions. The sad fact is that his hubris created the situation and there is no easy remedy.

    How much are tax cuts worth if the person who is supposed to sign the bill allowing them is betraying not only allies but the country? The Republican Party should rethink their support- especially since his agenda is now probably dead- squandered by a horrible health care bill and constant lies.

  58. Oh FFS Peter, there never was any reason to trust anything the president or his surrogates say, for any president in my lifetime.

    George Carlin’s First Rule

  59. I think we crossed that bridge long ago.
    I did not have sex with that woman. Oh look, a missile. (Even long before that.)

  60. Saw the headline and KNEW this would bring out every goober with a comment account. Trump said he could murder someone in broad daylight, with witnesses, and not lose a single supporter. Hell, even saying all his supporters are mindless puppets didn’t cost him any either!!

    1. Obama and Hillary broke their brains. It’s the only explanation for their partisan imbecility. Is anyone here even pretending to be a libertarian at this point?

  61. Face it. We elected a loony as president. It’s not only that Trump has destroyed the credibility of the presidency, the American people have seriously damaged whatever faith the people of the world may have had in America being able to support the liberal world order.

    1. “the American people have seriously damaged whatever faith the people of the world may have had in America being able to support the liberal world order.”

      So, that’s a ‘win’, right?

  62. I thought Nixon took care of that.

    1. Or FDR…or Jackson…or…
      The list goes on and on.

  63. “One reason the denial is difficult to completely buy is because it is so precisely worded.”

    So, an attempt to be accurate is now evidence of lying? And flat-out calling a report “false” is now obfuscating?

    Dear God, Suderman, did you even read this before posting it?

  64. It appears to me that both our last two Democrat U.S. Presidential nominees, the unqualified one senate term token black man and the unqualified one senate term token white female were selected and financed by establishment Globalists for their lack of core values and vulnerability to manipulation by their sponsors. Both would surrender our nations 241 years of sovereignty for a hat pin, let alone a new hat. It took the Globalists 8 years to stack the State, Justice and Security departments under the Obama administration with totally bias establishment Globalist pandering sycophant partisans and they are beside themselves with anxiety and frustration because their plans to surrender our nations 241 years of sovereignty have been foiled. Viva President Trump. Ironically it is the right of self determination that President Trump was elected to preserve that allows the MSM to continue to publish this yellow journalism as news.

    1. Of course, not the right to self-determination of Muslims and Mexicans. Surely not them.

      But then they’re not people, they have melanin, so let’s not be ridiculous.

  65. Hey, fellas, chill. Isn’t it more likely that Trump
    a. couldn’t remember what he was told in those briefings,
    b. put together some narrative that made him look good, and
    c. told it so confusingly that no two of his listeners could agree what he meant.
    Oh, to be a fly (one fluent in Russian, of course) on Putin’s wall when he watches the video of that meeting,

  66. The President alone is Commander in Chief. This awesome authority is a one way street not subject to the ignorant rambling of MSM nonsense FAKE NEWS. By definition whatever the POTUS says is not a “leak”. Obviously they missed President Obama’s message to the AG and FBI when he announced on national TV; “There will be no charges filed” And so it went, no further evaluation even got honorable mention from the establishment Globalist’s MSM. It was certainly was not a leak but It was a command.

  67. I thought I was reading Reason. Not the Washington Post.

    1. If you’re reading the comments, you might be at Breitbart.

  68. Excuse me? The WHAT of the presidency? Like we haven’t had a parade of idiots and liars since at least the first Johnson administration?

    -jcr

    1. 10 wrongs make a right!

  69. This is news ?

  70. The credibility of the media has been totally destroyed by the media with articles such as this one claiming that Trump has destroyed the credibility of the Presidency.

    The inanity continues unabated.

    1. Nothing is real. Kill yourself now.

  71. “There is no longer any reason to trust anything the president or his surrogates say.”

    You are over 8 years behind the times.

  72. The credibility of the office has been long destroyed, the previous occupant continued (accelerated) that trend. So why is the author acting like Trump’s somehow unusual in this?

    Surely it’s the facts that will determine if there’s a real issue here, not the presuppositions of the author about the office of the President.

  73. Because placing your trust in the credibility and competence of leaders is such a libertarian thing to do.

  74. Question for Suderman: When did you stop beating your wife?

  75. Don’t forget he also destroyed the credibility of CNN, NY Times, Buzzfeed, and fake “reason/skeptic” poser websites like this one.

  76. I’m surprised it took you so long to reach the conclusion that the troll has no credibility. Most of us figured that out months ago.

  77. Why aren’t Nazi swastikas and Communist hammers and ???? ??? sickles equally offensive? My question is provoked by the fact that I saw a kid wearing a CCCP T-shirt while??? I was at the gym

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