'The Review Board' Bust: 12 More Men Face Felony Charges for Posting to Seattle Web Forum
The area has previously prosecuted more than a dozen men in 2016 for online speech related to prostitution.
At least twelve more men face felony charges in Washington for posting comments to the now-defunct web forum known as The Review Board (TRB). The dozen defendants, most of whom who will be arraigned in King County District Court on December 14, face one count each of promoting prostitution in the second degree—a charge historically used to target people who profit off of the prostitution of others but more recently favored by King County prosecutors to go after people who write positively online about area prostitution.
Prior to this new wave of charges, the King County Sheriff's Office has already prosecuted more than a dozen men in 2016 for what amounts to little more than online speech related to prostitution. Many of those men accepted plea deals after the county threatened to add additional charges and a sexual-motivation enhancement (i.e., more prison time and sex-offender status if convicted) for anyone who attempted to fight back but give those who plead guilty lenient sentencing. After initially portraying these men as a despicable ring of international sex-slave circulators, King County wound up letting most of them off with a bit of community service or electronic-home monitoring and an admission to posting on TheReviewBoard.net while knowing that it might "advance" prostitution.
The individuals whose prostitution was advanced on TRB included mostly independent, adult sex workers who also advertised their own services on the site, and some adult (mostly Asian) women who were in town temporarily working at escort agencies and had ads posted by bookers—often other sex workers or former clients—for a fee. Anyone who advertised on TRB had to be approved by site owner "Tahoe Ted," whose personal touch irked some sex workers in the area (he was sometimes accused of discriminating against women who weren't white or conventionally attractive) but also seemed to avoid the problem that plagues purely user-generated content sites like Craigslist and Backpage: underage women. In general, the point of TRB seems to have been one part digital "locker room," one part semi-curated advertising platform for sex workers, and one part system wherein both sex workers and clients (or "hobbyists," as many on the board referred to themsevles) could serve as checks and balances against bad actors on both sides.
In the latest batch of TRB-related arrests, defendants are accused of basically the same activity as the first group: reviewing Seattle-area escorts on TRB, messaging other members about local sex workers, and emailing with sex workers themselves about appointments. One of them is also accused of helping a Japanese woman who had been supporting herself as a sex worker in Guam for a few years, then Hawaii, to set up advertisements on TRB and find an apartment when she moved to Seattle, after he had struck up a casual but ongoing relationship with her in Guam years earlier. Granted, TRB posts do tend to describe semi-graphic sexual activity (although not necessarily sex; some review providers of "full body sensual massages" who don't do "full service" appointments). And emails exchanged between sex workers and defendants do hint at prostitution. But people write all sorts of things online that aren't based in reality, and without having talked to sex workers seen by defendants, or witnessed any part of any of the sessions themselves, the cops have no way of knowing whether any illegal activity—or any IRL meetings at all—took place.
This is, of course, part of the evil genius of how King County is going after people who pay for sex. With the "promoting prostitution" charge, law enforcement needn't show that defendants actually engaged in pay-to-play sexual activity themselves. All they must show is that the men "advanced" the prostitution careers of others by saying positive things about them online.
Of course, at many points throughout the overall investigation, King County deputies and cops from the Bellevue Police Department also posted graphic sexual reviews to TRB of real local sex-workers, messaged with other TRB members about them, and arranged appointments with them. According to these agencies, whose officers met undercover for many prostitution appointments, undercover cops always ducked out of "dates" before any sexual activity could go down. But that still means that the exact same activity undercover cops routinely engaged in is, too, the only activity police allege of most defendants in charging documents. If these defendants harmed the people prosecutors describe as "exploited" and "prostituted" women through such activity, it would seem King County cops are guilty of doing the same, for years.
But in certifications for determination of probable cause against new defendants, authorities present no evidence that the women these men "promoted" were being exploited, other than the mere fact that the women were engaging in sex work at all. At least a couple of the "prostituted women" mentioned in charging documents are prominent sex-worker rights activists. In the Certification for the Determination of Probable Cause against one defendant, emails from nonprofit advocacy groups such as the Sex Worker's Outreach Project (SWOP) and Center for Sex Positive Culture are even presented among evidence.
In other charging documents, defendants are found suspect for emailing with Donald Mueller, whom charging documents describe as a "convicted human trafficker" and "the primary pimp and trafficker for Korean nationals" as part of a "criminal organization named 'Seventh Heaven of Asia.'" But Mueller was not convicted of human trafficking, merely of promoting prostitution (the same charges leveled against defendants now) and the"criminal organization" was him and sometimes one other person. King County Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Val Richey—who signed a statement swearing to the truth of these same charging documents—described Mueller to me last June as someone who was "providing a place" for and "promoting" the prostitution of Korean sex workers, but with no "evidence that [he was] really like physically restraining or assaulting these women," or doing anything else that would allow human trafficking charges to stick.
Clients of Sex Workers Allied for Change (CoSWAC) issued a Tuesday statement "condemn[ing] this continuing crusade" and expressing solidarity "for those being arraigned tomorrow. We call on the King County prosecutor's office to put an end to this fiasco, and work to find real solutions for public safety, including the safety of sex workers in the Seattle area," it said. "We call on the people of Seattle to examine all facts before rushing to judgment, and to join us and the sex worker community in advocating for more humane and effective alternatives."
For a more in-depth look at the origins and consequences of this case, see my September Reason article, "The Truth About the Biggest U.S. Sex-Trafficking Story of the Year."
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"All they must show is that the men "advanced" the prostitution careers of others by saying positive things about them online."
What about negative reviews?
"She should be an actress, since she has the clap."
"When she was finished, I felt as if I had been relieved of a burden - I soon discovered that my wallet was missing."
"She made my niggles hard"
Clearly, any such statements promote prostitution in one way or another, just like inappropriately deadpan mockery damages reputations. We need to recognize (as our incoming national leader recognizes) that the silly "free speech" argument has seen its day, and that prosecutors and courts must be given the resources, the leeway to get around the "Bill of Rights" when they need to, if we are to make America great again. Surely no one here would dare to defend the "First Amendment dissent" of a single, isolated judge in our nation's leading criminal "satire" case? See the documentation at:
http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/
Defense attorneys pointed this out during a motion for particulars. A negative review was cited as evidence in the charging docs. Did not sway the judge, motion failed.
Truth is most do not read reviews. It is someone else's experience.
This seems tantamount to Thought Policing?
Once we've established that sex for pay is badwrongillegal, it's a short jaunt from there to not being able to think or talk about it.
Talk about what?
Exactly.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ydrtF45-y-g
I'll pick you up, EDG.
Damn, Hamster. Salt-N-Pepa haz a sad.
Hey now. I'm trying to avoid Youtubing the greatest hits from the 90's at this time of night. It never ends well for any of us.
I have police in my thoughts........sexy police.
Ignore the First Amendment to your peril.
Honestly I kinda feel bad for them. They're running out of real crimes to fight. They've even started cannibalizing their own. Maybe they should just take turns locking each other up.
Pot's legal. Gotta make that quota.
I've tried parsing this phrase several times and I'm still confused.
I mean, there are garden-path sentences and then there are David Bowie in Labyrinth sentences.
Try parsing "Crusty attractive women."
That's some Lovecraftian Great Race of Yith shit, bro.
I'm assuming that should have read: "discriminating against non-white orand non-conventionally attractive" [my italics].
'cause otherwise, I'm left thinking all the women on the page were white, and were BBWs, had gaps in their teeth, unibrows, or were sexy-in-kind-of-a-butch-way.
The proofreading around here is not so much Hit & Run as Swing & Miss.
The front page of The ReviewBoard
Has anybody told these guys about SugarFree's confessions of sexual depravity on this very board? I'm sure there's some penal code violations in there somewhere. And I do mean violations.
I thought you were going to go for "and penal"
I thought "penile".
Can't believe this can go far before it gets blown dead on A-1. It's worth trying to get IJ interested, but I'm not sure they take A-1 cases.
conventionally attractive sex women
This should be an Olympic event.
Hey, ENB! I was thinking about making another futile attempt at improving my HTML skills on a dead thread when I saw that you asked if the commentariate really couldn't delete or edit our posts.
Really, young lady, trolling us about such a sensitive issue is simply mean. Right before Christmas, no less!
"SWOP" and "CoSWAC"
are these *supposed* to evoke the sounds of sex-workers being backhanded by pimps?
WORLDSTAR! WORLDSTAR!
CoSWAC is the sound of hitting two of your bitches with one swipe.
Help!!!!! We are being held hostage. The judge's are complicit as well. During one hearing a judge actually asked if a man is in a bar and promotes a girl to his friend, ins't that trafficking? The prosecutor was placed in the unusual position of defending the accused.
One example in a charging document was, "Charlotte...beautiful, creative woman." That defendant had never met Charlotte but the Judge cited that in a motion hearing as an example of promoting. The judges, through their collective negligence are allowing this gross application of law to continue. In comparison to CA's review of the Backpage Executives this screams of institutional negligence in the NW. The charging documents in the first round included an actual content reproduction website, nothing original, but it didn't matter, sex offender registry for everyone! Help!!!!!
This is thought control. Orwellian in nature.
First Amendment, doesn't matter, constitutional notice, doesn't matter, due process, doesn't matter, equal application of the law, doesn't matter. Prosecutors are making laws, rescue industries driven by radical feminism are profiting, the constitution is toilet paper, and nobody cares because it's about sex work. Who in their right mind would stand up and support sex work?
ENB would, and does, defend sex workers.
Also, this guy.
Not sure who you are, and from your post, I can't tell if you are supporting or condemning sex workers.
Hint: Learn to write in an understandable manner and you might get support for your cause. Or perhaps get blasted for it on this forum.
Now, who are "we" for starters?
Sorry, written haphazardly and fitted to the limits here.
"WE" is Seattle, bulletin boards, anyone in support of sex worker rights, anyone with an opinion.
I absolutely support Amnesty's Policy, loathe Rachel Moran, and the post is steeped in sarcasm because this case is utterly ridiculous but real.
Succor1|12.14.16 @ 12:13AM|#
"Sorry, written haphazardly and fitted to the limits here."
No one here knows you, your local abbreviations, or Rachael Moran, and as a result no one gets the sarcasm. You've got an audience already skeptical of cops and hookers; no need to sell that.
Can the 'too clever by half', post what happened or is happening. I sent a note to IJ; maybe someone else has an idea if we knew the details.
I've seen the handle here before. May have been interviewed/ the subject in an ENB story before? I'm 99% sure it is legit.
My apologies. Rachel Moran is a prostitution survivor and fairly controversial. She is a driving force behind the Nordic Model which is to treat the sex worker as a victim and johns as the driving force behind prostitution's ills.
The Seattle area rescue industry is filled to the brim. Ann Elizabeth Moore wrote a great piece, ""Special Report: Money and Lies in Anti-Human Trafficking NGO's." The author describes in 2014 a $700 million industry and growing, so large it ranks as 184 in national GDPs. In WA State over the last five years there has been 3 convictions for trafficking. Compare that to the growth industry of rescue orgs: Seattle Against Slavery, Organization for Prostitution Survivors, WA Engage, Shared Hope, Children of the Night, Genesis Project, etc etc etc. Shared Hope alone is an enormous fund raiser and influence.
1/2 of the fines and forfeiture money goes to local rescue orgs. Mandated also is a John's school to teach about "toxic masculine behavior." The mission of that organization is unapologetically radical feminist in its approach but it provides only yoga and art therapy for those sex workers looking to escape.
And I do apologize, I'm all over the place and this the standard for this message board is better than most.
Thank you. Muy betta.
Got a link for "Special Report: Money and Lies in Anti-Human Trafficking NGO's." ? Sounds worth the read.
Here.
Summary: Two-thirds of the way through. It isn't about Seattle, per se, so much as it's an expose on sex trafficking "rescue groups". Good luck finding out how much is spent per trafficked person - since the rescue groups only get funding if it's a problem, then now there are "30 million SLAVES around the world" and we're just supposed to have hysterics from there.
Midnight-Thirty Summary: They're getting at least a half million for every actual child sex trafficking victim, maybe a million, and if a few dozen thousand consensual adults need to rot in jail on your dime to protect their gravy train, then so be it.
"Rachel Moran is a prostitution survivor"
IOWs, she made money screwing and now she makes money griping about other people making money screwing?
Sounds like Kamala Harris.
thanks for the belly laugh at zero hundred. Kamala Harris would do just that, and try and prosecute/persecute anyone complaining about her game
The Constitution is already recycled toilet paper.
"Recycling toilet paper must be the worst job in the world."
Marla Singer
Review written by King County Sheriff Detective, taxpayer money for two years, what a hero, right?:
"Miranda is a powerhouse! Once I got to the door, I was greeted with a nice hug and some DFK right off the bat. Things went from fast to high speed after that. I got three feet in the door and I was in the middle of a French preview in front of a full length mirror. Miranda on her knees, holding out her hands and saying "Donation?". Almost lost it there?took care of business and then went for the shower, oh what fun we had! Slipping and sliding all over the place! Miranda rubbing her tits all over my back as she reaches around and strokes my cock was an amazing feeling. Miranda has a very nice pair of legs that melt into a beautiful ass, an absolute work of art.
Into the bedroom and she's on her knees again with BBBJ, slowly moving into a 69. After that the cover comes on and several positions later I finish in doggy. There were plenty of well placed mirrors at this location and the view of Miranda on all fours while I was fucking her was incredible. After the clean up I try to regain my composure and Miranda starts grilling me about the local hobby scene. Miranda is very energetic and up-beat, very comfortable in her own skin. (Oh, and Miranda intersperses everything with lots of kisses, mostly DFK, you have been warned!)"
Not helping...
I'm starting to think this is just a covert advertisement for the guy's local brothel.
Either that or a cop sting operation, hoping someone asks to meet "Miranda" (get it? get it?)
Pics of 'Miranda' or GTFO!!!
Miranda rights? What, is that white ciswhatever patriarchal speak for your "rights to Miranda?"
#IBelieveMiranda
Sugar Free has just found his dream job
seems like another "member" from KCSO is trolling. This is probably more graphic that what got these guys busted but the "author"/perpetrator will get no attention from the DA.
That is an example of what the cop was doing for two years. It is posted on a national review site.
Throw us a link if you have one. My flippant remarks aside there are several sharp minded people here with law degrees who may be able to point you in the right direction if you need legal assistance.
i know this question may sound nasty and mean-spirited, but its not, really. I actually think it would make an interesting follow up story, particularly since i'm pretty sure no one else will do it =
- what happened, exactly, to the many and various women coming out of the woodwork in late Oct insisting they'd been sexually assaulted by Donald Trump?
Strangely, it seems the rest of the media has completely forgotten about them. which is an extremely shameful thing to do *if* anyone who had reported on them in the past had genuinely believed them in the first place.
Are we to think that Trump's past crimes should be erased merely because he's won high office? Should these women be denied an audience for their accusations now simply because the press is more concerned with international espionage? It sends a terrible message to other victims = that you will only be believed when its *convenient* for the news cycle. It seems to me that someone out there should care and demand a full accounting, lest the world be left with the impression that "sexual assault" is some trivial charge to be easily disposed and forgotten.
Were there some quiet settlements we never heard about? or have any since recanted, suddenly remembering some *other* orange-haired, grabby man? Surely Gloria Allred has some insight.
Desperation. They are just throwing anything and everything in an effort to see what sticks. None of that stuck so move on. Putin hacked the election. Unnamed sources in the government say that they heard some people said the CIA might think that.
that's sort of my point.
the "move on" bit.
If the accusations were true, then they are being abandoned by a press that otherwise pretends to care about sexual assault. someone should at least pretend to not be a hypocrite, and try and follow up on the story.
If the accusations were false and the claims have been abandoned, i think its terribly unfair to genuine victims that 'false charges' be treated so blithely.
*puts arm around Gilmore
I know, man, We all know.
"Rank hath it's privileges", and so the likes of The Donald, Bill Clinton, Anthony Wiener, etc., don't get punished much (if at all) for their sexual depredations. However, if you blog or comment about the (willing, paid) hookers you have visited? ***AND*** (AND here cums the critical part) ye are NOBODY, "Sans political power", THEN, as ye can see, ye can be busted just for writing some comments about the hookers!
Lesson of the day: You want to write or blog to or about the hookers? You'd better be politically powerful!!!
Well, it worked so well against Herman Cain four years ago. How sad for them it didn't work this time. If it had worked it'd still have been dropped and, like Harry Reid, they'd be saying "Well, Hillary's in the White House, isn't she?"
an alternative explanation, likely far closer to the truth than most would like to hear.... what if these claims were all fabrications? We've seen such claims in the past fall apart...... likely paid shills to "come out" to "balance" sticky dicky Bill's escapades. Now, the women who came forward to throw the Clinton He Unit's escapades into the She Unit's face along with HER complicity did get some traction... and has largely been verified. SHE sure did her bit to try and silence some of them..... didn't work. And the She Unit lost, big time.
Thank you, flippant remarks are well received, you have to get dirty to play with the big dogs, right?
ENB is a savior and the only investigative reporter to have studied the issue. The link to that review is on TER, which is not an endorsement and the number is, Review=1791539. Sorry for the spewage (is that a word?)
"The link to that review is on TER, which is not an endorsement and the number is, Review=1791539. Sorry for the spewage (is that a word?)"
Link, please, like this: http://www.sfgate.com/
Ok, it was necessary to truncate due to the length. I split the link into two but it is one continuous line of text. There is a word length limit on this board.
https://www.theeroticreview.com
/reviews/showReview.asp?Review=1791539
Again, muy betta. You got allies here; just tell us what's happening.
I notice there's no San Fran boards, which is no surprise. SF is prudish regarding any sort of hetero sexuality, but not so much regarding other sexual interests. Has to do with being "proggy".
Here, replace all the [ with greater than, and all the ] with less than:
[A href="httplink"]text you want to be a link [a/]
Other way: [ is less than, ] greater than
"Thank you, flippant remarks are well received, you have to get dirty to play with the big dogs, right?"
Ha! Don't get it twisted, I'm not remotely close to being one of 'the big dogs'. Most people who comment here on a regular basis are far more educated and than I am. I'm just a dumb jock who tries to regurgitate the points of more intelligent people than I to people of my similar ilk, to minimal success. I work in a gym, for fuck's sake.
They let me hang around as long as I don't break anything or shit all over the place...think of me as an elderly Wal-Mart greeter.
As usual the State abuses the fact that you need "standing" to challenge the constitutionality of a law, i.e. you need criminal penalties hanging over your head, ready to drop like a ton of bricks if the court doesn't find in your favor. Of course, thanks to sovereign and qualified immunity, the State and its agents take absolutely no risk by prosecuting based on blatantly unconstitutional laws.
However, for first amendment freedom of speech matters, can't people who haven't been targeted sue and claim standing due to "chilling effects"?
Great post. Seattle is unlike DC, the 1st Amendment is rarely if ever in need of defending. It's more relevant to the corporations here than criminal defense attorneys. Most criminal attorneys around here are woefully unprepared to defend on 1st Amendment issues. It's a perfect storm. The judges are allowing the prosecutors to treat the 1st amendment like toilet tissue and the pool of defense attorneys are quite sure what is happening.
The rescue industry has trained LE and politicians about the signals of trafficking. In their minds this is it, Asian women, has to be it. Even though the transcripts to the interviews of the women indicate otherwise, clearly. And the fact that most of the women remain doing what they did before but in other cities.
1st paragraph: Sorry, the defense attorneys aren't quite sure what is happening and how to defend.
2nd paragraph: xenophobia is easily learned when most trafficking posters have an Asian face.
Back in my high school days, I'm pretty The Review Board was the organization that produced and administered the SAT and other such standardized tests, like PSATs and the GRE.
It's an interesting evolution of their business model to go from screwing over students to helping older people with zero game get themselves screwed.
Personally, I have no problem with it as long as its all based on voluntary exchange.
That was 'college board' I think. Though maybe they've got into the business of advertising college student escorts.
Come on, is that some kind of Cialis scam?
Question: why doesn't paying for someone's plane ticket to come to a job interview count as human trafficking.
In the end, all this bullshit comes down to coming up with half baked ratiomalizations for prosecution based on nothing but a reflexive disgust for the idea of men having sex with women without buying them jewelry and a house first.
It must be truly wonderful to live in an area, a community where the population, meaning everybody is so absolutely law abiding that The Forces of Law and Order, or whatever one might choose to call them have no real work to do, and are so plagued with the accompanying lack of work that they are compelled to engage in what sounds like made up crimes.
Reality Check.... SEATTLE SUCKS I hate driving there, as I must do tomorrow. SO many problems, they throw public money at non-issues (hundreds of thousands of dollars to "defend" a city ordinance to ban firearms in city parks AFTER they were told by the state's AtG that STATE law preempts local, and state law allows that... round after round, the first one ending in summary judgement WITH prejudice, they continued to appeal, knowing (or should have known) that until the state Constitution is ammended (unlikely as a tsumani hitting Seattle's downtown waterfront) they have no chance. Yet they waste more money on creating felons out of thin air..... makes perfect sense...... stupid people
I have no language to be grateful for this position . true skate apk
clash royale apk
The more I read this Val Richie guys public comments the more I conclude he's simply a good old fashioned perv.
It's instructive that many of his public comments of condemnation about sex have little to do with the legal code. Prostitution may be a crime, but much of his public comments are about "men obsessed with sex" and "guys talking about cheating on their wives." Change the topic from prostitution to himosexuality and he doesn't seem all that different than the prosecutors of an earlier generations ago locking up homosexuals under sodomy laws while publicly talking about how they will burn on hell for their pagan sins.
Where does his obsession with bypassing violent criminals to dedicate state resources to peeking through keyholes and providing public commentary on what he sees come from? Is he a Prosecutor, of a commentator for a daily tabloid on who some Star is currently "living in sin" with?
Maybe his next step can be codifying into Seattle law what sexual positions he feels should be legal and monitoring his fellow citizens to ensure they comply with his narrow version of "approved sex."
That the people of Seattle would tolerate this kind of self righteous busybody and that his boss would cheer on his voyeuristic obsession with the sexual exploitation's of his fellow citizens does not speak well of the voters who would elect his boss.
there is NOTHING that would speak well of the voters who elected his creature's boss....... we, the rest of the state, wish we could find a big enough saw or jackhammer to saw off that part of the state and float it up toward Vancouver BC, or maybe out to Samoa. By the time it gets there enough of the pervs would have died Samoa might not mind.....
I find it disturbing that, after a couple of decades teaching the Seattle area schoolchildren that sex in all its various "variations" is normal, right, good, and to be experimented with at will, WHY have Seattle's uptight upright dirty coppers got their soggy knickers all beknotted over some hoors and their marks and a web page where they who wish to partake in consensual adult activities (and bear the consequences) can comment on their experiences? Seems much of the "condemning" language reported is not even attempting to be factual but mindless blather, almost a porno high stimulated by their own fantasy writing.
They who have no interest in such carryings on care not a fig. They are all "big boys and girls", bear the consequences of their own actions, leave them alone. WHen they are cruising the local junior high for some new "workers" THEN we have a problem. When they are all adults, ignore it. What, the city wants their "cut" of the "action" in taxes? Figure out a way to put that into practice. They've done it with booze, tobacco, guns, taxis, pro sports, marijuana.......
In my humble opinion, anyone who is persecuting these people who have posted to this or any other forum should be stopped from further predations by any means that prove necessary.
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I'm obviously no lawyer - I'm just an average pissed off, middle age, average white guy....but how is this not a violation of free speech exactly? I thought that in the USA, I could say what I wanted so long as I don't slander or libel someone - or cause mass panic (the old yelling fire in a theater thing).
And how is this not entrapment exactly? - "Of course, at many points throughout the overall investigation, King County deputies and cops from the Bellevue Police Department also posted graphic sexual reviews to TRB of real local sex-workers, messaged with other TRB members about them, and arranged appointments with them." - apparently the cops can do and say whatever they want in order to further the investigation, but the "criminals" aren't allowed to post a positive review. I really hope a liberal judge gets ahold of this and annihilates it.
What became of all this?
Now I fucking love me some power pop, and Cheap Trick are one of the greatest to play the genre. But fuck they were over-produced. Too much keyboard and stupid arpeggiation.
They re-recorded "In Color" with Steve Albini producing/engineering. It is not radically different, but may be better.
Jim Beam going down smooth this evening.
I fucking love power pop too. But 99% of people hate it unless it's overproduced.
There really is no reason to re-record In Color unless they were too stupid to save a copy of what they delivered to Epic. All the overproduction on In Color was added after the band submitted the tape to the label. You can't really blame the label for doing what it can to sell the record, even if it means adding elements you don't want. And really, the only thing wrong with In Color is the piano added to "I Want You To Want Me." And really, every Albini-produced record sounds like shit.
It's like hearing Paul Simon bitch and moan about the stuff added to The Sound Of Silence. Hey asshole, the added production you didn't want made you a rich man so shut the fuck up and self-release if you think you know better; the original version was D.O.A. in sales until the label fucked with it. At least Cheap Trick were vindicated by the fact that their rawer live sound sold better than Epic's production attempts, but there is no sense in trying to erase the past.