Police in Schools

Reno School Cop Shoots Teen Victim of Bullying in the Chest—District Praises Cop for 'Protecting Children'

Teen's attorney speaks out while school district praises cop for shooting.

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YouTube

A school police officer at Hug High School in Reno, Nev., shot a 14-year-old boy who had a knife on him as the boy was trying to escape a crowd that had formed to see an anticipated beat-down of the boy, the teen's family's lawyer, David Houston, told the AP. The attorney described the boy as emotionally distressed and said he had already been hit when he was trying to escape. He was shot in the chest by an officer who has not been identified but who has been placed on paid administrative leave.

"Those kids were alerted there was going to be a beat-down at a specific time and a specific location. They had amassed with their cellphones for the purpose of filming it," Houston said. "Half the student body is out there cheering them on. He'd been punched in the face and was running around screaming, 'Get away from me!' He was trying to extricate himself from a situation that had become like spectators in the Roman Colosseum."

"There was no attempt to calm the situation," the attorney also said. "There was not this genuine sense of panic or alarm by the students watching until the officer attempted to execute the 14-year-old who was screaming, 'Get away from me."

The school superintendent, Traci Davis, praised the cop, saying "the officer's judgment saved other students from deadly force." The lawyer for the school district, meanwhile, criticized the family's lawyer for speaking to reporters. "It is disappointing to think that such a tragic event can be sensationalized by one side and by the media in order to spread false truths, innuendos, and disparage the efforts of a law enforcement officer protecting children," said Neil Rombardo.

"Protecting children," in this instance, sounds like it meant putting a slug in the chest of a 14-year-old bullying victim. While the school district can be argued to be sensationalizing the case by crediting the judgment of an adult who shot a 14-year-old in the chest with protecting other children from "deadly force," neither has the school district provided any kind of alternate account to the event, nor disputed any specific claim by the teen's attorney as of yet. It should not be surprising the school district has stepped up to defend the cop so quickly—not only does he appear to have failed in protecting students, but for a school to get into such a situation in the first place seems to require years of poor school and district administration. Schools don't lose control of their student bodies overnight, it takes a serious amount of mismanagement.

Houston argued the teenager brought some kitchen knives to school in anticipation of being jumped by a group of seniors who had assaulted him the previous day. The lawyer also questioned why the officer, assigned specifically to the school, didn't try to resolve the situation in some way other than by the use of deadly force. "They could have said, 'It's OK, nobody is going to hurt you,'" the attorney said. "One of the primary rules of our society is we don't shoot our children. We simply don't shoot first and ask questions later."

The teenager is in the hospital in critical condition, and suffered a major stroke yesterday. No charges have been filed in the case. The boy's father hired an attorney in case the teen was going to be targeted by prosecutors. The district attorney's office says it is taking charges into consideration while the Reno police department investigates.

A number of students recorded the incident, some of whom posted it on YouTube. Here's one:

Via the Twitter feed of NC criminal defense attorney T. Greg Doucette

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372 responses to “Reno School Cop Shoots Teen Victim of Bullying in the Chest—District Praises Cop for 'Protecting Children'

    1. No shit. I spent all morning/afternoon working in the yard, enjoying the first nice day we’ve had in awhile and come back to this. I don’t think I will be watching the video.

      1. HNNNNG… right in the nuts. 🙁

      2. Just so. Read the story, depressed enough. Not watching.

        1. Might I make a small (and quite modest) proposal, that we salt, preserve, and eat the remains of children that we need to eliminate in the cause of protection? This is something we could profitably do with the insidious trolls of the Net as well, whenever they are found to violate any state, federal or municipal regulations that define the boundaries of civil discourse and establish where the line is drawn between tolerably light humor and inappropriately deadpan “satire.” Surely no one here would dare to defend the outrageous “First Amendment dissent” of a single, isolated judge in America’s leading criminal “parody” case? See the documentation at:

          http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

  1. We simply don’t shoot first and ask questions later.”

    Lol.

    1. “We complexly shoot first and ask questions later”?

      Also, goddamn, that’s a nutpunch of fine quality. Been a while since something this brazen…

  2. I’m still waiting to form an opinion on this. The kid already had been in the juvenile system at least once and his Derpbook page was full of posts with him trying to sell alleged stolen merchandise. There’s more to this story.

        1. Not a reliable source. What they say doesn’t match the links they provide, and neither does what you’ve said. I assume you know this though.

          1. The direct links to the Facebook posts are in the comments.

            1. That really wasn’t the point.

              1. So, any possible backstorywith this kid is null in void? Good to know.

                1. That’s how it works with people who assume that the police are always justified when they shoot someone. The person who was shot is always to blame, because they’re a bad person and bad people deserve whatever’s coming to them.

                  1. People who shoot kids as a first response are bad people.

                    1. Would that apply to a person who shot Adam Lanza at Newtown?

                    2. “People who shoot kids as a first response are bad people.”

                      Go watch the videos at TTAG. The above video doesnt show much. It doesnt seem like shooting the kid was the cop’s first response.

                      Second, my grandmother was mugged and beaten by a 15 year old shitbag in the Bronx. A 14 year old threatening people with a knife can be just as deadly as an 18 year old doing the same.

                    3. Leaves out any consideration about the cop causing errant, collateral, gunshot wounds, too! All of the kids surrounding him and recording should be guilty of something! If the kid had no escape route, he was just a damned target, for practice! I am not impressed with the school or the cop. Just hope the kid recovers.

                  2. No, but when the details of a story are in dispute, and the person one side is portraying as an innocent victim turns out to have a super shady past, it reduces the weight of that side’s story.

                    See Martin, Trayvon and Brown, Michael.

                    1. The plausible-from-the-cop-pov bithere is that the kid DOES have knives and the area is full of other kids. The cop’s first duty is to make sure the kid doesn’t hurt anybody. Ed has a plausible explanation for why so many kids are hanging around — the scheduled beating — and that provides a plausible reason for the kid to have the knives, since presumably the teachers and the on-campus cops don’t seem to have done bupkis to stop the beatings — why should the kid think they are his friends now?

                    2. Exactly. Kid gets bullied, tells adults. Adults find no proof, bullies act like angels, then the bullies give the kid a worse beatdown for snitching, cycle continues. The kid now knows that he can’t trust authority figures. He knows that thanks to zero-tolerance policies, if he fights back, he’s going to get expelled or suspended. Now, in this case a kid tried to fight back and got killed for it. What message do you think that sends to bullying victims? I think it says, “Roll over and take your beatings, or the police will shoot you if you resist and fight back.”.

                    3. What message do you think that sends to bullying victims?

                      It says get your revenge good & hard where there are no witnesses, & make it look like an accident. Lots of accidental deaths & severe injuries, maybe poisonings, happening to people who coincidentally had been rumored to have been beating someone.

                    4. Pretty much how it works in the real world.

                  3. “That’s how it works with people who assume that the police are always justified when they shoot someone.”

                    There’s a lot of absolutes in that statement for people that think cops are always right and those that think they are always wrong.

                    “The person who was shot is always to blame, because they’re a bad person and bad people deserve whatever’s coming to them.”

                    When someone has a criminal record at 14, it is not unreasonable to believe there was previous contact with law enforcement. Did that previous contact play a role? Was that contact violent or non violent in nature? I don’t know. Do you?

                    Maybe this was retribution by the cop for the kid calling him a faggot last month. If that is the case, I’ll call for his imprisonment along with you. Waiting for more information is not equivalent to exoneration.

                    1. /shrug, you do you.

                    2. Waiting for more information is not equivalent to exoneration.

                      This is Reason, there has always been a contingent of “cop is always wrong” types here.

                    3. It’s funny watching the powerful try to play the victim. It’s sad watching everyone eat it up.

                    4. Because a lot of times the cop IS wrong. And now we have video to prove it.

          2. Ed|12.10.16 @ 2:08PM|#

            Not a reliable source. What they say doesn’t match the links they provide, and neither does what you’ve said. I assume you know this though.

            No sense of irony.

            1. Reason has used TTAG as a source in the past. Must be Russia’s fault.

          3. I read the TTAG report first and had the same reaction about two completely different versions of one incident. I HAD wondered, in the TTAG videos, why so many kids were milling around, filming it, getting in the way, about which TTAG said bupkis. That they were there to watch a scheduled beating makes so much sense that now I see the other holes in the TTAG report.

            I also wondered how any cop could think to draw down on a kid in such a crowded situation — did he not think to wonder where any missed shots would go? OTOH, he didn’t shoot right away and did seem to be giving the kid a chance to drop the knives. And those other kids, getting so close and getting so much in the way — either they were incredibly stupid, or they had seen the pattern before and didn’t think the kid would actually hurt anybody.

            It’s all a frickin mess.

            1. “I also wondered how any cop could think to draw down on a kid in such a crowded situation — did he not think to wonder where any missed shots would go?”

              Agreed there too.

              “It’seems all a frickin mess.”

              Absolutely!

            2. I’m no cop-fellator, but under the circumstances, that was the ‘best’ shoot you could have asked for,

              It really doesn’t matter what the other kids thought the level of risk was, because if the cop believed he was justified, that really is good enough; and frankly, in his position, I *probably* would have done the same thing. That kid’s behavior in the video didn’t look like it was particularly rational, and some guy with a bloody face flailing around with two knives in close proximity to a whole bunch of potential victims is not a candidate for a tazer, net, cattle prod etc.

              From a disciplinary point of view, the cop will be back on duty somewhere (though not at that school) as soon as the paperwork is signed off.

              It’s pretty clear to me that the school itself bears some blame here is the kids are regularly indulging in bare-knuckle-beatdown shows. It appears from other sources that this kid was a well known perp.

              It would have been idiotic for the cop not to have acted – in part – on knowledge that we don’t seem to have at the moment.

        2. That piece didn’t seem to have much of a tilt at all.

          1. They all do now a days.

    1. First off, having been in juvie before doesn’t necessarily imply anything. School policy very frequently punishes everyone involved in a fight without taking sides, even when one of the kids is being bullied. That is considered a “fair” resolution.

      Second, allowing a gang of kids to exact mob justice on one kid is not in any way appropriate. If he stole property, deal with that in the court system just like with anyone else.

      Finally, there is zero excuse for the cop to attempt to execute this kid with a pistol. Yes, knives are dangerous and possibly deadly if the subject knows how to use one to kill. This kid wasn’t threatening the cop, he was trying to defend himself. Just having a knife is not enough. There was no reason for this cop to fear for his life or the lives of any of the students. So, yes, I will judge this one as a god damned tragedy that never should have happened. This cop belongs in prison.

      1. If, as a ccw, I came up on a situation like that (kid with knives, acting erratically and charging within feet of other kids), I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same.

        1. Then you would go to prison because you do not have a uniform to shield you from it.

          1. In some parts of the county, yes. Not likely in AZ.

            1. Assuming you really do have CCW, which I am really doubting at this point, you’re the kind of person who should definitely not have one and give the rest a bad name.

              1. There’s some No True Scotsman right there. Are you actually denying this was an all around shitty situation and if you saw this going down from the point of the video, you would have just stood there until he possibly stabbed someone?

                1. Well, you’re saying you just shoot people even when you don’t know what the fuck is going on.

                  1. Pretty much this. Having a knife in and of itself does not make one the aggressor. If the kid was being threatening other students, why were they all standing around with phones recording it? Waiting to record their own stabbing?

                    1. *threatening to

                2. you would have just stood there until he possibly stabbed someone?

                  There’s a million ways one can try and stop a fight that doesn’t involve “shooting someone”

                  getting between knife-boy and the person who was threatening him might be step 1

                  is that necessarily always the best option? of course not. but you and I aren’t going to know without being privy to the context.

                  1. “but you and I aren’t going to know without being privy to the context.”

                    Which is why I started off with saying, I’m reserving my judgement until more information comes out. I can get on board with the “why didn’t he use a taser” argument. Asking the question is a little different than condemning someone before facts are all out there. Maybe ZSG can sit with a CNN panel with their hands up while he’s at it.

                    1. “Which is why I started off with saying, I’m reserving my judgement until more information comes out”

                      And then failed to actually do so.

                    2. Because I defended my position on why there might be more to the story and why, if in the same position, I could see a threat that needed to be stopped? Ya got me…

                    3. I remember the old days when there weren’t cameras everywhere to record shit and when something like the Rodney King beating was a rare occurrence. In those days we used to think it would be a great thing when something was caught on video because then nobody could question what actually happened, they could see for themselves.

                      Fast forward to now and all video evidence is open for interpretation. People need to “know more” than what their eyes show them before rendering a verdict. We might as well start printing the Newspeak dictionaries, installing the telescreens, and memory-holing anything inconvenient to the official narrative. We’re already ripe for it. All that remains is to pluck the fruits of those efforts.

                    4. What we see in the video is a kid swinging knives at other kids and getting shot by a cop from offscreen.

                      Interestingly, all the stuff that you guys are bringing up to try to justify what the kid was doing is NOT in the video at all. Is it true? Possibly, we’ll see. But it ain’t on the video, so stop claiming that those who question it “need to know more than what their eyes show them”.

                      to even compare this to the Rodney King video, which showed clear police abuse, is ludicrous.

                    5. Who is “we”? What I see in the video is boy brandishing knives at other kids who approached him and yelling at them to “back off”. I do not see him approaching anyone else in a threatening manner or trying to stab or cut anyone. The other kids continue to gather around him, obviously unafraid. If the cops had tried to get the others to simply back off and let the boy walk away, maybe no one would have gotten hurt.

                    6. It’s pretty fucking sad when an adult police officer is more frightened of a teenager with a knife than the teenagers who are attacking that kid.

                      If I were that kid’s lawyer, that would be something I would hammer home for the jury. That’s assuming this ever goes to trial, because it won’t. The police know this cop would be found guilty, so they’ll do everything to prevent a trial possible to keep themselves from looking bad. As with every situation involving agents of the state, it’s CYA all the way down.

                      The Tulpas spend their time showing how god damned stupid they are.

                      At least this fucking hero went home safe tonight. Might as well give him a medal for winning the murder-in-uniform Olympics.

                    7. It’s pretty fucking sad when an adult police officer is more frightened of a teenager with a knife than the teenagers who are attacking that kid.

                      Where did the cop, or anyone speaking on his behalf, say that he was frightened for himself?

                      He shot the knife wielder to protect the other kids. An adult being more frightened of a threat to a teenager than the teenager him/herself is is a daily friggin’ occurrence around the world — teenagers are and always have been idiots who think they’re invincible.

                      You may want to reconsider who here is showing how stupid they are.

                    8. It’s a good idea to ‘be frightened’ of a 14 year old with a couple of knives *if* he’s attacking you.

                      In the case of a cop, while the SCOTUS doesn’t think it’s the job of policemen to protect you, some policemen tink they do have to do that. I know, weird, huh?

                      I can’t believe I’m actually having to defend a guy in a blue uniform today.

                    9. @ZSG: I did make a mistake in assuming the video posted above was the same one(s) over at TTAG. The video Ed posted doesn’t show the more crazy behavior I saw in the other videos. But I’m sure Ed knew that.

                    10. Why do you think he chose that video as the one to post?

                3. Absolutely.

                  Given that the kid was trying to get away and people were following him, if he stabbed someone its likely because they were interfering with his escape. In any case – until he did something more than wave a knife around . . . yeah, I’d not even draw my gun.

                  There’s also a yuge difference between slashing the air with a knife and waving a gun around. The former still requires the knife-wielder to close the distance with his target to harm them. Stay away from the crazy fuck with a knife and its really hard for him to hurt you. Keep chasing him down and when he turns on you . . . not going to get a whole lot of sympathy from me.

            2. Yes, in AZ – we don’t go around and shoot at people here just because they’re brandishing a weapon.

              1. Pretty much every CCW instructor I’ve ever heard of instructs that you flee a deadly situation if it presents itself and only draw if you cannot. You may only shoot in defense of someone else if they are in imminent danger of being killed.

                Police firearms instructors do indeed teach the 21 foot rule for knife attackers. That does not imply that an officer should intentionally close the gap and shoot someone with a knife. It is also assuming that the person may have been trained to kill with knives. A fourteen year old kid wildly flailing around is quite obviously not a trained killer. The cop should have been ordering the kids to leave.

                I was trained by a police firearms instructor as I was in armed security. It is clear that the kid was surrounded and had no opportunity to flee. The cop needed to do nothing more than drive the kids off and give him an out and he’d have taken it. Had any of the kids been at all concerned, they’d have fled, but they’d rather stand around egging on a pre-planned fight and filming it.

                1. 21 foot rule doesn’t apply if you have already drawn your weapon.

                  1. The 21 foot rule is also not an excuse if the cop has closed to 21 feet by moving towards the knife wielder. It’s supposed to apply when the person with the knife is coming towards the cop.

                2. 21 foot rule is for SELF defense. The people the cop is charged with protecting were within a couple of feet of the knife wielder.

                  I’m calling bullshit on “It is also assuming that the person may have been trained to kill with knives” — killing a random person with a knife requires no training whatsoever. If your target is a skilled fighter, then yeah, it could require additional expertise to avoid being disarmed or otherwise thwarted, but that’s not remotely the case here.

                  1. “The people the cop is charged with protecting were within a couple of feet of the knife wielder.”

                    BECAUSE THEY WERE ATTACKING HIM, MORON!

                3. You may only shoot in defense of someone else if they are in imminent danger of being killed.

                  This is also baloney. You should demand a refund from whatever CCW instructor told you this crap.

                  You can legally defend an innocent person from any threat that you could legally defend yourself against. That includes not only death, but also severe bodily injury or debilitation, kidnapping, or rape.

        2. charging

          He was coming right at me!

    2. Haha Tulpa sneaking back in, god man, why bother?

      1. We are all Tulpa.

        1. Well, you are anyway.

          1. Happy Hanukkah!

            1. Dec 24 at sundown.

  3. If your child complains about being bullied, often it’s because they are unintentionally insulting or bullying other kids. And this may not even be obvious to the child. So one way to stop your child from being bullied is to ensure your child isn’t bullying others – this may require some uncomfortable questions to get to the truth. Also don’t gang up on people online with your sockpuppets and make them cry – this is just so wrong. And for GODS SAKES don’t feed the trolls!!!!

    1. Yes, if we just kill off all these obnoxious little pussies who provoke bullying, then bullying wouldn’t happen anymore.

    2. “If your child complains about being bullied…”

      Weird. if your child complains about being bullied… I don’t know. Maybe a girl would complain? But I remember complaining about being bullied was anathema when I was in school. Even one of the authorities observed th’event, no one would ever openly acknowledge it. It’s kind of a shameful thing. So, if your child is enough of a sociopath to complain about being bullied, who knows what else?

      1. Let me point out that arsking someone for advice on how to handle a situation that one might describe as being bullied was not so prohibida.

      2. Usually it’s not “complaining” from the victim that brings bullying to the attention of adults; rather, it comes from adults noticing the effects on the victim and pressing them for answers. In addition to the obvious physical signs like bruises from a beating or coming home without pants, there are often behavioral signs of the severe stress the victim suffers, like skipping school, no longer leaving the house, obvious nervousness or distraction, sudden loss of interest in an extracurricular activity, or medical signs of stress like sleeplessness, bed-wetting, constipation, or tics. These signs can be severe enough that even a relatively inattentive parent will eventually notice, and will want to know what’s going on.

    3. “…often it’s because they are unintentionally insulting…other kids.”

      I don’t believe it’s “often”, but that can happen. Under-socialized kids or those with social communication challenges like autism spectrum disorders can inadvertently do or say things that anger other kids.

    4. Well, our first instinct as parents is never to ask, “Well, what did you do?”. Because we don’t want to believe that our children are doing things that are getting them bullied. Besides nowadays that gets called “victim blaming”. We don’t want to believe our kids are bringing misery onto themselves, even though we should know better than that.

      1. So true, kinghiram91. So true. Also if you suspect your child is being bullied, buy them a superman costume. The cape will instantly command the respect of their classmates.

      2. “…our first instinct as parents is never to ask, “Well, what did you do?”

        No, because asking that would be begging the question, assuming that that your child deserved to be attacked. “What did you do?” IS victim blaming. The question, if any is needed, is “DID YOU do anything to provoke this?” And you ask this with the understanding that ALL bullies, every time, use the excuse, “HE started it!”

    5. This is so incredibly retarded that I shouldn’t respond to it. But I will.

      Bullies don’t pick on other bullies. They look for people that are weaker than them to pick on.

      1. And then, once that weaker person has been designated as a target by a feared bully, others who rank below the bully on the dominance hierarchy join in on abusing and ostracizing that person to secure a social position above the victim and avoid being designated a victim themselves. That’s how kids targeted for bullying become isolated.

  4. Um yeah, “cop shoots bullying victim” seems a little too much in line with the Reason anti-cop narrative to be true. So I’m assuming Krayewski is hiding some information. Which I will now google and report back on, since most of the commentariat participates in their own duping. Do note that Eddie Kray-Kray treats the family’s lawyer’s claims as fact while not presenting anything from the other side, which would set off bells ringing in the mind of a critical thinker.

    1. the other side being an unnamed officer? hard to get them on the phone.

    2. Seems like he coulda tased the little fucker.

      1. That argument is certainly valid. That isn’t the argument Eddie Kray-Kray or the family lawyer is making here though.

        I’m less concerned about the particulars of this case than Eddie’s continued trend of posting partial information to back up their ideological narrative. Though it seems like a practical strategy, since commenters who “want to believe” will defend him for doing this, and I guess their donations add up to more than mine would.

        1. “That isn’t the argument Eddie Kray-Kray or the family lawyer is making here though.”

          ????

          “Houston argued the teenager brought some kitchen knives to school in anticipation of being jumped by a group of seniors who had assaulted him the previous day.The lawyer also questioned why the officer, assigned specifically to the school, didn’t try to resolve the situation in some way other than by the use of deadly force. “They could have said, ‘It’s OK, nobody is going to hurt you,'” the attorney said. “One of the primary rules of our society is we don’t shoot our children. We simply don’t shoot first and ask questions later.”

          1. Oh, hi.

        2. The lawyer also questioned why the officer, assigned specifically to the school, didn’t try to resolve the situation in some way other than by the use of deadly force. “They could have said, ‘It’s OK, nobody is going to hurt you,'” the attorney said. “One of the primary rules of our society is we don’t shoot our children. We simply don’t shoot first and ask questions later.”

          RTFA.

          1. Forget it, it’s Tulpatown

            1. Little Tulpas on the web site,
              and they’re all posting crappy-crappy,
              little Tulpas on the web site,
              and they all talk just the same.

          2. He is not arguing for the officer to have used a taser there, is he?

            I see the Reason commentariat has degenerated into “argument by whac-a-mole” again.

            1. “He is not arguing for the officer to have used a taser there, is he?”

              Yes, he is.

            2. “He is not arguing for the officer to have used a taser there, is he?

              I see the Reason commentariat has degenerated into “argument by whac-a-mole” again.”

              You had ten full minutes to come up with something that explains why you missed the article mentioning something that proved you completely wrong and this is the best you come up with?

              Get a new hobby.

            3. “The lawyer also questioned why the officer, assigned specifically to the school, didn’t try to resolve the situation in some way other than by the use of deadly force.”

              I believe a taser falls under the category of non fatal force, yes?

              1. “Ed DID NOT SPECIFICALLY SAY TASER AND NEITHER DID THE ATTORNEY SO SPERRRRRGGGGG I’M RIGHT SPERRRRGGGGG!!!! ”

                /Tulpa

              2. well, there is that 1% chance it causes a heart attack.
                i guess.

              3. He’s repeating the lawyer’s statement, which does not mention less-than-lethal force such as tasers. The lawyer is talking about using no force at all. It’s not at all clear that that was an option.

                Reason claims that tasers are deadly force, since certain medical conditions can cause a taser-targeted individual to die.

                1. “which does not mention less-than-lethal force such as tasers.”

                  I called it before you posted it and you still couldn’t help yourself.

                2. “The lawyer is talking about using no force at all.”

                  If you’re so sure you’re right, why are you lying?

                  “The lawyer also questioned why the officer, assigned specifically to the school, didn’t try to resolve the situation in some way other than by the use of deadly force. “They could have said, ‘It’s OK, nobody is going to hurt you,'” the attorney said. “One of the primary rules of our society is we don’t shoot our children. We simply don’t shoot first and ask questions later.”

                  Please point out, specifically, who said the should be using “no force at all”.

                  Said it. The actual words “no force at all”.

                  Playing by your rules now.

                  1. Please point out, specifically, who said the should be using “no force at all”.

                    Do you seriously disagree that the quote from the lawyer advocates using no force?

                    1. Considering he said “deadly force” and not “no force”, will you kindly shut the fuck up now?

                    2. WTF you talking about?

                      The lawyer was saying that the cop should have just talked to the kid and not used force.

                      That is a completely separate argument from saying the cop should have used a taser. (BTW, this article claims that tasers are not supposed to be used on armed attackers, only noncompliant unarmed suspects)

                    3. Just point out where he said “no force at all ” specifically, and we’ll go with your version.

                3. “Reason claims”

                  No actually, some writers for them do.

          3. With the kid being surrounded, and the boy telling the others to stay back, I don’t see any sense in trying to portray him as the attacker. Crowd dispersal would have helped a lot. But, when one is dealing with a bunch of crazed teens, they are never going to do anything asked. They are ready to record the kid getting shot! The only thing that would made them happier would have been if it had been a head shot!

      2. How about calling for back up and arresting the kids who were threatening the kid who ended up getting shot?

        1. They don’t do that in schools. If a kid is the victim of bullying at the hands of a great many students (say, half the senior class), then the administration simply punishes the party with the smallest amount of people. IE: almost always the bullied kid. This is from someone who experienced something similar first hand in his high school days (though no cops were involved in my incident).

          1. Good reason for school choice.

            1. Agreed, wholeheartedly.

          2. “If a kid is the victim of bullying at the hands of a great many students (say, half the senior class), then the administration simply punishes the party with the smallest amount of people.”

            Pretty much sums up how democracy ends up working.

    3. Except… A) i didn’t treat the family’s lawyer’s claims as fact and B) i presented multiple statements from the other side.

      2/10, troll harder

      1. It’s the weekend, this is the best we get around here.

        1. Maybe, but this is sub-Tulpa. And that shouldn’t be possible.

        2. It least Eduardo reads the comments.

          1. But asking the trolls to RTA is too much lol

            1. Rich coming from someone who didn’t read the original news articles on this story (assuming you weren’t lying about there being no statement from the police).

              1. Rich coming from someone who thinks the attorney and Ed argued they should use “no force at all” assuming you weren’t lying about someone saying that.

            2. To be fair, even the non-trolls don’t read the articles. :-p

              1. Why read the articles when you learn so much more in the comments? 😉

        1. Was expecting this:
          BAAAAM

          1. fucking love that mustard tiger.
            rip phil collins.

      2. (A)

        Reno School Cop Shoots Teen Victim of Bullying in the Chest?District Praises Cop for ‘Protecting Children’

        In big bold type. On top of the article.

        (B)

        Four paragraphs from the lawyer, a couple of sentences from the school and its lawyer.

        Also….

        While the school district can be argued to be sensationalizing the case by crediting the judgment of an adult who shot a 14-year-old in the chest with protecting other children from “deadly force,” neither has the school district provided any kind of alternate account to the event, nor disputed any specific claim by the teen’s attorney as of yet.

        From my link below:

        RPD says that the boy was threatening other students…

        Officials say a Washoe County School District Police Officer responded to the altercation and gave verbal commands. They say the teen did not follow the verbal commands and the officer shot his service weapon, striking the student. Reno Police Chief Jason Soto says, “The officer gave verbal commands for the student to drop the knife, ultimately firing his service weapon, stopping the threat.”

        Missed that little bit, did you, during your research into this story?

        You also know damn well that there are laws restricting what a school can disclose publicly about a student, so yeah, they’re not going to be able to dispute some of the lawyer’s claims.

        1. A) isn’t disputed by either side, and is factually correct

          B) that was their statement you want him to embellish it or make something up?

          You didn’t even read it, guy, why make an ass of yourself getting so many things so wrong?

          1. I appreciate Chip Your Pets outing themselves as a fucking moron so we know they can safely be ignored.

    4. I’m not sure how much broader context is directly relevant to the use of force, beyond whether the cop knew the kid was armed, and whether he made any effort to defuse the situation non-violently.

      I do suspect that the chaos caused by the other kids (about the only thing discernible in the video above) was a factor here — a lone cop in such a situation is probably concerned about lurking threats in the mob, and would find it difficult to get the attention of an individual to demand that he drop a weapon or otherwise comply with directions.

      1. So call for backup. Try to contain the situation. What might you want the cops to do if it were your kid?

  5. Here’s a link to an actual news report on the incident, if you want a look at both sides of the story rather than an Eddie Kray-Kray propaganda piece. It also has a much clearer video of the kid swinging his knives at other students — probably intentional on Eddie’s part to post a video where you can’t see anything other than the kid after being shot.

    1. Watched it, looks like Ed was 100% correct with everything he said and your video changes nothing.

    2. the mob that surrounding him to make him fight?

    3. video of the kid swinging his knives at other students

      …who had him surrounded and weren’t giving him an opening to flee and didn’t leave themselves because they were trying to attack him.

      These were not unexpected victims of a surprise ambush by this kid. They were active participants in an assault. Self defense is a perfectly acceptable use of violence.

      1. i know i wouldn’t be in any way afraid being surrounded by people who want to at least see me fight my bully!
        even if some wanted this kid to win, they still wanted to see a fight.

        1. And there is no way for him to know which ones will try to prevent his flight and which ones are just looky-losers.

      2. Self defense is part of the NAP, is it not? Let’s imagine different players, say in the 1930s Deep South. Black man is surrounded by jeering mob, pulls out knife, then gets shot by Sheriff Jim Bob. Any outrage? Or was it a “good shoot”?

        1. idk, was he a known delinquent selling stolen goods months ago?

          1. If the kid was an adult who was a “known delinquent selling stolen goods”, how would he be dealt with? Would it be all the neighbors ganging up on him when he got home from work and beating on his ass? And then the neighborhood cop gets to shoot him and claim he protected the peace of the neighborhood?

            This is called vigilantism and the NAP still applies.

            1. it was sarcasm based off above comments.

              no love lost. he was right to defend himself from the mob.

          2. And how many of those lynching incidents were spurred by rumors of the victim’s supposed wrongdoing? This school system is a model of that type of law enforcement and furthermore, what we would get in a country run by progressives.

        2. I never said it was a good shoot.

          There are several legitimate questions about what the cop did. Did he actually warn the kid to drop the knives? Did he have less than lethal options available? But this article does not get far enough to ask those questions, it just assumes that what the lawyer said was true.

          1. “I never said it was a good shoot.”

            And that’s not what you’re being called an idiot for.

      3. Reason used to think that displaying a deadly weapon in response to a threatening mob was unjustifiable even in SD. This kid was actually swinging the knives, not just displaying them.

        It’s very possible that the officer arrived on scene just as the kid started swinging the knives, in which case he would appear as the immediate threat. (This is also the danger of having CCW in schools BTW — if everyone is shooting it’s hard to figure out who the aggressor is) The PD claims he warned the kid to drop the knives and the kid didn’t. If it turns out that the cop did not warn the kid, that’s a problem.

        1. Yes, a kid surrounded by a mob that’s obviously pushing for him to get his ass kicked is totally a threat. Even with knives, this is simply unacceptable. He should have the right to self defense. And if you were surrounded by that many people clamoring to see you get beaten to a pulp, you would have brought a weapon too. There’s no excuse for what this cop did. Full stop.

          Oh, and also, fuck off, Tulpa.

        2. Looks like having an armed officer at the school is more of a threat than ccws

          1. Certainly this danger is present with both.

            If a CCW-ing teacher walked up and saw a kid swinging knives at a bunch of other kids and shot him, would Reasonoids be similarly up in arms?

              1. ^

                Unlike police, gun owners police their own. Dumb handling and use reflects badly on everyone.

                1. Who thinks “kill it” when you roll up on a CHILD waving a knife.

                  It’s a god damned child you fucking psychopath.

                  1. Someone who has a not very deeply suppressed psychological urge to kill others?

                  2. A 14 year old boy with a knife is more than capable of killing someone.

                    1. A grown-ass man actually did kill someone.

                    2. Or, rather, injured to the point of massive stroke and critical care unit.

                      See. I know that, because I RTFA.

                    3. Argument by whac-a-mole, now giving way to non sequitur.

                      Next comes the inevitable drooling.

                    4. Circular reasoning leads to ad hominem.

                      After realizing everyone knows he hasn’t got a clue about what Ed wrote and may have seen a Heinlein movie once, next comes post hoc and frantic hand-waving.

                    5. mike brown!!11! martin!1

            1. Honestly, if I knew the teacher shot the kid who was trying to get away from the mob and using the knife to try to ward them off? I’d absolutely find fault with the teacher.

        3. A mob threatening to hit soneone with snowballs?

        4. Do mendacity and pedantry always interesect in such interesting ways?

      4. No, no. You’re supposed to take your beat down graciously until the proper authorities swing by to defuse the situation. Even if you were threatened with violence the day prior.

        To be fair, did the kid ever report the previous incidents? Or did I miss the story link? Too busy today to do any back research.

        1. eh. i wouldnt want to go to the teachers and tell them my bully is bullying again. even if it is the smart thing, it can be worse once the teachers are gone. navigating high school is hard with a bully.

          1. Fair enough. Given my background in boxing and being my small town’s ‘Ice Cream Man’ during high school years I never really had to deal with being picked on past my Freshman year.

              1. +1 Master P tune.

            1. i wasnt really bullied, but i can imagine how it could feel like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

  6. Speaking of trolling (having nothing to add to this unfortunate story) –

    “ome of the Jewish world’s top scholars convened at a Jerusalem conference to discuss Abraham Lincoln…”

    (Did you know that many of Lincoln’s friends were Jewish?)

    1. “Speaking of trolling (having nothing to add to this unfortunate story) -”

      You can just shut the fuck up for a minute then?

      1. Merry Christmas to you, too, ho ho ho.

        1. Or what?

          1. I’m protecting Eddie from bullies – I don’t want to see him come back here with knives.

            1. Ha ha, but I’ve already brought the Internet equivalent of knives – I posted a circumcision link. Enjoy!

            2. So nothing. You’ll post some words and I’ll laugh at you.

              1. Oooh, not that.

                Come on, joyless, lighten up a little.

                1. “Come on, joyless, lighten up a little.”

                  You’re the soreass who whined for me to “fuck off”.

            3. No such thing as a bully on the Internet.

              1. That’s right, poopy-head.

                Poopy-head!

                1. Help! I need a safe space!

  7. “One of the primary rules of our society is we don’t shoot our children. We simply don’t shoot first and ask questions later.”

    What fucking rock have you been living under?

  8. So, you don’t like deep-dish pizza, do you? Well, what if it were vegan?

  9. The boy’s father hired an attorney in case the teen was going to be targeted by prosecutors.

    That will depend on how desperate they are to protect the school and the police department. If the rabble keep pushing against the narrative – and they definitely seem to be doing that – enough that the system feels threatened, it will push back with charges. If the kid lives.

    I couldn’t shoot a child. Not in that situation, and probably not in any. How anyone could is beyond me. “Training” is usually the fallback. No amount of muscle memory would have me shoot a child, or shoot anything when the backstop for my bullet is more children.

    1. Would it have been possible for this cop to fire a warning shot, then tell the unruly crowd to disperse? Anyone who disobeys gets arrested. He should have called for back up at the beginning of this situation.

      1. I don’t know about a warning shot, but maybe reading the literal Riot Act?

      2. Or he could have simply grabbed the kid and taken the injuries (which most likely would not have been fatal) that came with that. Are these people not supposed to be the ones who would “take a bullet for the safety of others” so to speak?

        Oh, and also, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING SHOOTING A FUCKING KID????

        1. Are these people not supposed to be the ones who would “take a bullet for the safety of others” so to speak?

          He wasn’t right next to the kid, so that wasn’t an option. Also I don’t think cops are expected to take a bullet for the safety of an armed attacker. You’re underestimating how lethal a knife wound can be, also.

          Funny how Reasonoids start echoing the idiotic counterfactuals that gun-grabbers excrete after self-defense shootings. “Why didn’t he just hit him in the head with the gun instead of shooting him? It always works in the movies!”

          1. The hell it wasn’t an option. All he had to do was grab the kid when he started running. And if the kid wasn’t running towards him, let him go to cool off. And I’m not underestimating the lethality of a knife, I’m assuming that this kid has no formal training with such a weapon. The cop could have disarmed him easily. And, since you were nice enough to quote me, but then not actually comment as to the subject of the quote, yes, this officer should have assumed the injuries in this case. When you’re a cop, you are supposed to be the one who gets injured so others don’t have to.

            And also, once again, fuck off Tulpa.

            1. you want to be treated like heroes? do heroic things

              1. Exactly.

            2. All he had to do was grab the kid when he started running. And if the kid wasn’t running towards him, let him go to cool off.

              WTF are you talking about? There is no evidence the kid was anywhere near the cop. “Let him go cool off” — with knives, in the middle of a crowd of students?

              And I’m not underestimating the lethality of a knife, I’m assuming that this kid has no formal training with such a weapon. The cop could have disarmed him easily.

              Bullshit. Even an untrained person can easily (and unintentionally) kill with a kitchen knife, and disarming a person with a knife (let alone 2 knives) is not easy unless you’re an expert or in Hollywood. If you think cops are expert martial artists, think again. And if you think they SHOULD be, hope you’re cool with the tax increases necessary to pay for that.

              When you’re a cop, you are supposed to be the one who gets injured so others don’t have to.

              You’re supposed to get injured so a knife-wielding attacker doesn’t? Fuck that.

              1. he wasnt attacking.
                yes, i expect the police to take the hit before another person does.

                1. what, you expect the secret service to get shot so the president doesn’t?!

                  1. what, you expect the secret service to get shot so the president doesn’t?!

                    Not if the president is attacking a crowd with two kitchen knives.

                    1. you keep using this word.

              2. attacker

                Who was “attacked”?

                1. WTFV

                  He was swinging the knives at other kids. That is an attack.

                  1. Or defense.

            3. “Or he could have simply grabbed the kid and taken the injuries…”

              “The cop could have disarmed him easily.”

              Yeah, sure. whatevs.

              I still cannot tell if the shooting was necessary. Based upon what has been shown so far it will probably be found justified – particularly if any of the videos capture clear audio of a command to halt/drop the weapon/etc prior to the shot.

              Even if it started out as justified self defense if the kid persisted in threatening/assaulting people (and slashing a knife around in the direction of another is damn sure an assault) after everyone retreated, and – especially – after the arrival of the cop, then HIS ACTIONS ceased to be lawful.

              Beyond that, any notion that the cop – or anyone else – should have grappled with him is plainly idiotic.

              What I’m hoping at this point is that the kid recovers, and if there was a beatdown planned, that everyone involved gets felony charges because they contributed to this shooting as much as anyone else.

              1. I agree, but I will say that back in the 70’s the expectation would have been that the officer (who would not have been at the school, but whatever) would use his night stick to whack the knife arm, disarming the kid, if it had come to that.

                And then knock some sense into him while taking him to meet his parents at the station.

                I don’t think there would have been much patience for shooting a 14 year old with a knife, unless someone had already been stabbed.

                1. If his nightstick is 10 feet long maybe. The distances apparent in the video are not conducive to any of these fantasies about using bare hands or sticks to disarm the kid.

        2. Dude, he was 14 and had knives. We’re not talking about a toddler with a spork.

          1. No, we’re talking about a child with a knife.

            Killing him as your first option still makes you a psychopath.

            1. So much this.

            2. Ah, reminds me of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown. The “child” label, first resort for the troublemakers.

              1. We generally don’t execute “troublemakers”.

              2. Of course Michael Brown was 18 and Trayvon Martin was a 5’11 160lbs 17 year old and were the initial aggressors, but totally the same thing as this case.

                If you’re not Tulpa, you’re doing a bang up job pretending to be.

                1. Regardless of the biometric particulars, it’s the same usage of the word “child” to portray someone as innocent and harmless when in fact they were engaged in acts that could have killed another person.

                  From the cop’s POV he was the initial aggressor. An armed person threatening the people around him is always going to be assumed as such. It would be unreasonable to approach it any other way.

                  And yeah, there may be more to this story than meets the eye. The “bullying” angle comes entirely from the knife-wielding kid’s dad and lawyer, despite Krayewski and his admirers in this thread claiming “nobody disputes” — of course the school can’t comment on things like that by law.

                  1. “Regardless of the biometric particulars, it’s the same usage of the word “child” to portray someone as innocent and harmless when in fact they were engaged in acts that could have killed another person.”

                    Nope.

                    Please refrain from assuming you know why I used it.

        3. Or he simply could have pushed through the crowd and told the kid, “Put the knife down. I’m not going to let anyone hurt you. I’ve got a gun and people aren’t going to fuck with me. Now all the rest of you, go the fuck home.”

      3. Warning shots are a bad idea. Fire it into what exactly? The air? The ground?

        1. When it’s a cop firing a gun, Reasonoids turn into Joe Biden.

        2. They really are. The ground is the only option, really, since shooting shots into the air is a big no-no, but even on the ground you get ricochets, which will not work with a mob around.

          1. Straight(ish) up is safe. Bullets coming back down are falling at terminal velocity, not at their muzzle velocity. They would give you a knot on your noggin at best.

            Up in the air at anything less than, say, 75 degrees is probably pretty awful though. I pulled a .22 round out of our roof as a kid, looked like it came in at about 30 degrees. Not at full velocity, but fast enough to penetrate two layers of shingles and into the plywood. That would have done a bit of damage to a human.

            1. You have any idea what terminal velocity is for a modern bullet?

              1. Yes. I’ve seen it done. They lose their spin and tumble down. A 9mm would hit pretty hard, as it is reasonably heavy. It might even give you a cut on your noggin. But it wouldn’t be deadly, or even seriously dangerous.

                I still wouldn’t recommend shooting a gun up in the air in an in-town situation. So no 4th of July celebrations with random gun shooting. But if you needed to diffuse a potentially dangerous situation like a kid with a couple of knives who was running around threatening (but not stabbing) a bunch of other kids, it might be worth the risk of cracking someone’s windshield or denting their hood.

                It would certainly carry less risk than firing at a moving target in the middle of a swirling mass of kids. (from that point of view, the guy did a good job – hitting his target center mass. I’m sure that will be part of his defense of his actions…. getting a clean shot at the kid when he moved clear of the crowd for a moment. He’ll be able to say he wasn’t sure when he’d get another opportunity without risking hitting innocent bystanders)

  10. “Doctors in Denmark want to stop circumcision for under-18s

    “‘It is most consistent with the individual’s right to self-determination that parents not be allowed to make this decision,’ says Ethics Board…

    “The doctors stopped short of calling for an all-out legal ban on the procedure, which is currently allowed but remains relatively rare in Denmark, because it said the move could have too many negative consequences….

    “The Danish Health Ministry announced on Monday that beginning in 2017 all circumcisions, regardless of where they take place, will have to be reported to Denmark’s national patient registry.”

    1. Maybe a backdoor way to register Muslims?

      1. anybody not on the list of circumcisions goes on the list of Muslims?

        1. I thought Muslims were supposed to be circumcised. And note they are stipulating “wherever” so I assume that means anyone immigrating there as well.

    2. Of course parents shouldn’t be making these decisions. It’s the government’s job!

  11. A school police officer

    I think I might have stumbled upon a contributing factor.

    1. Yeah, in the old days, the biggest teacher would handle breaking up fights. There was plenty of bullying, plenty of fights. Kids figured it out.

      This is fucked up across the board.

      1. In the old-old days, that teacher would also paddle your ass for bullying. In not-so-old-old days, if you got sent home from school your parents would get a call, and then they would beat your ass. Nowadays they get a suspension and are right back in school 1-3 days later to start up again. No punishment from anyone because the parents are always supportive and the school doesn’t give a fuck about anything but protecting themselves from liability. Once asses are covered, that’s the extent of their efforts.

        1. I think that one reason we have these cops in schools is *because* the old days are gone. Specifically, the “childrens’ rights” snowflake brigade and associated lawyers, judges, etc. have seriously limited the disciplinary authority of teachers and principals.

          Paddling is out, and even suspension is considered racist.

          “OK, then, we have a discipline problem but not the tools to deal with it. Why we gonna call? Who still has a broad degree of legal authority to beat up on people and even shoot them, plus a PR brigade to demand the media give them the benefit of the doubt? Hmmm, can’t think of…WAIT A MINUTE!”

            1. Ghostbusters!

              Sorry, somebody had to say it.

              1. Why we gonna call? Ghystbusters.

        2. Yes, and furthermore we were taught to stand up for the kids being bullied. My dad would have been as pissed at me for not protecting someone as he would had I been the bully.

          And filming it? Yeah, it would have been ugly.

          1. Yes, it would have. Hell, if I’d done that, I may still be grounded (and I’m 50).

            I’m utterly dumbstruck by generation snowflake. This is the same generation that would scream for coloring books and a safe space if you write ‘Trump 2016’ in chalk on the sidewalk.

        3. I’ll be teaching both my boys how to calmly use a cell phone video cam for just this kind of thing. While I agree, there are some parents out there that are pieces of shit, the vast majority of them I’ve met do want to do right by their kids, and would flip out and dole out punishment if anything showed their kids bullying ended up on video. Or, in the cases of the asshole parents, on the Internet where every other parent gets to see their kids behavior.

          1. I think it would be better for them to be taught to run and get adult help as fast as possible and involving as many adults as possible.

            1. Except that will only land them in trouble with the administration. I speak from experience. Something eerily similar happened to me in my high school days (though I did not come armed) and as soon as an adult got involved, guess who was the one who got punished? Not the kids doing the bullying. Not that I’m saying you’re wrong (a suspension from school is a far better option than being shot) but I wanted to point out that kids in this kind of situation are often offered no way out. And then we wonder why some of them choose to take self defense into their own hands?

              1. Oh, I know first-hand about being punished as the victim of bullying by exactly this kind of situation. Hallway full of punks preventing flight, a couple darting in and out to get their licks in. There weren’t cell phones or Facebook to arrange to have as many people as possible show up to take part in it.

                My point is mostly that someone is going to use a phone to get video now. No need for your kids to be the ones. And my point about getting many adults involved instead of just going to get one increases the odds that one of the adults will challenge the rest if a group-think situation arises. Lots of perspectives are better than just one. Besides, a bunch of adults stand a good chance of driving the hooligans off.

                1. Yeah, my experience at all levels dealing with educational administration as a student was: if there is a fight, everyone is guilty.

                  Although with the hindsight of many years, one incident must have been pretty funny to the administration. I was the smallest kid all through school…. an August birth date and a late-blooming small build meant that in 3rd grade I was less than 45 pounds. One of the biggest 6th graders rode my bus. He was, of course, quite the bully.

                  Well, one day a prank by a couple of kids went sideways and the bully started swinging at me. I only managed to throw one punch, but it was a nice, straight right that landed cleanly on his nose. Blood poured out everywhere and it left him with two black eyes and a swollen schnoz.

                  So he threw the first punch, and the next 20 or so (which I managed to block using form stolen from watching wide world of sports and a strategically placed bus seat)… and I threw one punch in self-defense. So naturally we both had to go sit in the principle’s office every morning for a week and write an essay about why we were wrong. I, of course, had to resist the urge to write “I shouldn’t let guys who outweigh me by 50 pounds try to pound me into the dirt, unprovoked”.

                  But I can only imagine what the principle actually thought, being told there was a fight and then looking at the tiny little kid without a mark on him and the biggest kid in the school with a busted nose.

        4. No punishment from anyone because the parents are always supportive and the school doesn’t give a fuck about anything but protecting themselves from liability. Once asses are covered, that’s the extent of their efforts.

          Well put, and this is the heart of the problem.

          Casting this as a “police abuse” story is like blaming the dog pound euthanasia tech and not the dog owner who didn’t bother housebreaking their puppy.

          1. this is the heart of the problem.

            No. The heart of the problem is the existence of public schools.

            A government agency has no business disciplining students. Parents have every right to complain when the school’s idea of discipline is forced upon their child.

            A private system would allow parents to choose institutions that conform with the values the parent wants instilled in their child. The how, is via voluntary contract.

            When you run into these little traps (rights vs order), it’s usually because the government is involved in something the government has no business being involved in.

            1. Oh, that’s ridiculous. No matter what system you have, no matter how carefully you choose, shit gonna happen sometimes. The problem is what the appropriate actions are to take in response to the shit.

            2. That’s like saying cigarette taxes caused the death of the fat black guy on Staten Is. Or blaming military conscription for a massacre. 2 wrongs don’t boil down to 1.

          2. I remember that quote. That’s the one where Heinlein demonstrated that you’d have to be insane to think the pup in the analogy deserved execution.

            /Lt. Col. Jean V. DuBois frowns with disappointment

            1. That’s the one where Heinlein demonstrated that you’d have to be insane to think the pup in the analogy deserved execution.

              While that was certainly one of the implications, it was not the main point. The main point was that the fault for the person being executed lay with the “North American Republic” system that had previously coddled their bad behavior.

              You might recall that the Terran Federation and the Mobile Infantry in particular used the death penalty multiple times in the book. So they’re chill with executing the puppy in the end.

              1. While that was certainly one of the implications, it was not the main point.

                The fuck it wasn’t. It figures. You didn’t read the book either.

                “Suppose you merely scolded your puppy, never punished him, let him go on making messes in the house … and occasionally locked him up in an outbuilding but soon let him back into the house with a warning not to do it again. Then one day you notice that he is now a grown dog and still not housebroken — whereupon you whip out a gun and shoot him dead. Comment, please?”

                “Why … that’s the craziest way to raise a dog I ever heard of!”

                “I agree. Or a child.”

                “I told you that ‘juvenile delinquent’ is a contradiction in terms. ‘Delinquent’ means ‘failing in duty.’ But duty is an adult virtue?indeed a juvenile becomes an adult when, and only when, he acquires a knowledge of duty and embraces it as dearer than the self-love he was born with. There never was, there cannot be a ‘juvenile delinquent.’ But for every juvenile criminal there are always one or more adult delinquents?people of mature years who either do not know their duty, or who, knowing it, fail.”

                1. Note that Johnny comments on the raising of the dog, not the shooting, being crazy. And Lt Col DuBois agrees with that assessment.

                  That is in complete accord with my analysis above. The point is that coddling bad behavior is a bad idea. Neither one comments on whether it was a good idea to shoot an unhousebroken adult dog.

                  1. That is in complete accord with my analysis above. The point is that coddling bad behavior is a bad idea. Neither one comments on whether it was a good idea to shoot an unhousebroken adult dog.

                    Yes. Sure. Why not. Post ho ergo prompter hoc, this proves irrefutably that Heinlein would therefore approve of the shooting of an unhousebroken puppy.

                    Marvelous.

                    1. It was a grown dog that got shot in the example, not a puppy.

          3. “blaming the dog pound euthanasia tech and not the dog owner who didn’t bother housebreaking their puppy.”

            Even your analogy shows you’re a psychopath.

  12. OT, regarding the previously discussed piece on the so-called resistance against Trump in SV:

    With Trump scheduled to meet with Silicon Valley leaders next week, other online activists are urging tech companies, including Google and Facebook, not to cooperate with any efforts by the Trump administration to create a registry of Muslims. An online petition being circulated by the activist group Sum of Us, which has offices in San Francisco, says “Donald Trump’s agenda is a dangerous, existential threat to our communities and democracy ? and now he’s trying to get Silicon Valley to help him to execute it.”

    If Trump creates a “Muslim registry”, he’s not going shopping in SV, and definitely not seeking the help of Facebook or Google. These sorts of projects are carried out by behemoths like Accenture, CSC, and IBM, and/or small NoVA-based firms owned by disabled veterans or women of color that exist solely to serve the government.

    1. not to cooperate with any efforts by the Trump administration to create a registry of Muslims

      A little late for that, don’t you think?

      I love how they’re going to pretend Trump invented domestic surveillance and deportations.

      1. Well, at least us gun owners can rest assured that .22 rifle we bought before squirrel season didn’t get us put on the list.

      2. Probably will be shocked, shocked! the first time Trump administration signs off on a drone strike in, say, Sudan.

    2. and/or small NoVA-based firms owned by disabled veterans or women of color that exist solely to serve the government.

      So much this.

    3. The US census has a “Self-Described Religious Identification of Adult Population” summary data, which means they’ve already got a “list of Muslims”.

      All they now need to do is pull an FDR.

      1. i think the lp picking the porcupine was a great call.

  13. The school superintendent, Traci Davis, praised the cop, saying “the officer’s judgment saved other students from deadly force.”

    I got this far before I caught myself saying, even though I know better, ‘Nobody would do that. Nobody.’

    On a side note, I hate server sqwerls. Little bastards.

    1. I wouldn’t have shot into that crowd, for the same reason the ccw holders didn’t fire into the crowd when Gabby Gifford was shot.

      You don’t fire into crowds unless you mean to kill all of them.

  14. It looks like Trump has decided on Rex Tillerson as Sec of State. Anyone have any thoughts on this guy?

    1. I like that he is not Rudy Giuliani.

        1. Or Hillary Clinton, or John Kerry.

        2. And it’ll likely cause Bernie and Fauxcahontas to have embolisms.

        3. Or John Bolton

          ::cringes::

      1. Tillerson served as president of the Boy Scouts of America from 2010-2012, at the time that the delegates voted to allow openly gay youths to join their troops and earn their merit badges. After the vote took place, Tillerson led the Boy Scouts to implement the change.[26][18]

        I’m pretty sure they’ll find a way to claim he advocates Gaydocide

        Opposition to sanctions

        Tillerson has stated that “We do not support sanctions, generally, because we don’t find them to be effective unless they are very well implemented comprehensively and that’s a very hard thing to do”.[20]

        aside from his global-trade bona fides, this is pretty much the most interesting thing about him as Sec State. Sanctions are the shittiest (and most often used) tool in the US toolbox.

        Anyone who expected Trump to be anti-free-trade is going to have a hard time explaining this guy.

        I presume the angle the media will take is that he proves that the goal of the US is to steal the world’s oil, or something.

    2. Rex T. CEO of ExxonMobile. Well, I guess that’s transparency.

    3. CFR interview with RexT. Pretty long.

      http://www.cfr.org/world/ceo-s…..son/p35286

    4. And Wikipedia has responded by creating a “Ties with Vladamir Putin” section on his web page that didn’t exist previously.

      1. You know the father of the Kochs did business with Stalin?! Before he decided not to, anyhow…

    5. I think I’d totally give myself the nickname of T-bone T-Rex if I were that guy.

  15. “…to spread false truths…”

    False truths. I don’t need to hear anything else he has to say.

    Sounds like daddy needs to go have a talk with the cop.

  16. Battle not with Tulpas, lest ye become a Tulpa thyself.

    OT: A Clinton Fan Manufactured Fake News That MSNBC Personalities Spread to Discredit WikiLeaks Docs Great article. Covers a lot of ground, and backs up his claims. Score one for Greenwald.

    1. An important link to highlight from that article: The Clinton Campaign Should Stop Denying That The Wikileaks Emails Are Valid; They Are And They’re Real It demonstrates exactly how we know that the e-mails are valid. Somehow that article flew under my radar, which is too bad because many (even here) needed to see it.

      1. Yeah, the DKIM signatures prove they’re real, unless you’re the Hillary Clinton campaign and are transparently dissembling. Can’t imagine why people didn’t trust her, must have been the vagina.

    2. It was genius for the Dems, a party whose every issue and every complaint is made up out of thin air, to start complaining about fake news. Just genius.

      1. And I love that Greenwald’s article has teeth. No hedging. No minimizing. Straight for the fucking jugular.

        1. Greenwald has kept his integrity, an impressive feat for a lefty journo in this day and age. Even when I disagree with him, I keep my respect for him.

          1. I used to not like him, but he has earned my respect. When people on both sides hate you, you might be doing actual principled stuff.

            1. Me as well. I thought Greenwald was just another lefty, but he turns out to have some integrity.

  17. The punk had to have known what would come of this. Presumably it was worth it to him. He’s got no cause to cry for it now. Come on, venner mine!

    1. What a great last Christmas. They can remember it for the next 50 years that they get nothing.

      1. For some of them it’s going to be a last, last Christmas. The kind where you don’t get to be around for fifty years reminiscing.

        1. Venezuela is ready to issue new, higher-value notes to deal with the problem – but rising prices are still squeezing many ordinary citizens.

          That worked so well with Zimbabwe, it made everyone trillionaires.

    2. They were hoarders. What did they expect?

      I am guessing next christmas there will be zero toys to be found anywhere in the country. Maybe Sean Penn could fly some down there to the kids in socialist paradise.

      1. Wreckers and kulaks!

    3. Venezuela’s consumer protection agency, Sundde, said toy distributor Kreisel had stockpiled the goods and was reselling them at a margin of up to 50,000%.

      I’m going to guess the case against Kreisel involves selling toys using the actual value of the Bolivar, and not the government peg.

      1. This is what I was thinking

    4. It’s like Atlas Shrugged was a how to book.

    5. ?Todos de los yanqui guerra econ?mica!

    6. Venezuela seizes Christmas toys to distribute to poor

      This is like the most perfect illustration of “Good Government” i’ve ever seen.

      all those gifts were going to be given to children anyway (the market at work); but the government used force, theft of property, and caused untold damage to everyone, just so they could claim that THEY deserve the credit.

      1. If I recall, Chavez was elected running on a socialist platform not dissimilar from the platform one of our recent candidates ran on: free shit, hatred of the other, and envy. I think he even complained about fake news.

    7. Venezuela may not have much, but they do have the Christmas spirit.

      Iiiiiiii’m
      Drea-ming of some
      shit
      pa-per
      Just like the stuff
      from long ago

      After bung-hole leavings
      from last night’s eatings
      we’re out
      thanks to Maduro

      Iiiiiiii’m
      Drea-ming of some
      shit
      pa-per
      for every time
      I need to wipe

      May your stools be solid
      and neat
      in the unlikely
      event you get to eat

      1. Pretty good.

    8. Thanks joe from lowell!

  18. We don’t need another hero

  19. Fishing Boat Monitors – Obama strikes again…

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016…..itors.html

    1. Lets see what happens after the emperor retires.

  20. I don’t often contribute links, mostly because the stuff I look at probably isnt of interest here, but I remember a while back someone asking about batters for fried fish or asking about coconut for batter.

    Here is a great recipe. Well, basically. I use the same thing except I spice the batter up a bit more than this. This guy does mention you have to use lower heat but he doesnt give a number. I’ll give the number – 350 up will burn the coconut. I usually use about 335 and just let it cook a little longer.

    I am sorry that I don’t remember who was asking, but here you go.

    Good stuff

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLBnQZ_t8zA

    1. I should mention that you don’t have to use his mango sauce, you can use a simple sweet-n-sour which is very good and a lot easier to whip up. If you have kids this will keep them quiet and stuffing their faces for half an hour.

    2. Why should I click on a pornographic link?

      1. OK, I clicked and fast-forwarded to the good parts…*drool.*

    3. While I encourage folks in North America to eat up as many invading snakehead fish in the manner of their choosing, please note that as the fish is endemic to places like S.E. Asia, there are many delicious Thai recipes that call for it which take into account the specific flavor of the flesh.

      1. Noted, and thank you.

        However, I didn’t post that specifically for snakehead. That recipe works really well with any mild flavored, light fish. Catfish, Tilapia, Bass, Perch, etc. It also works well with shrimp.

        1. However, I didn’t post that specifically for snakehead.

          I realize.

          Just spreading the gospel of real Thai food.

      2. In my part of the country Asian cooking is under appreciated.

        1. In my part of the country Asian cooking is under appreciated.

          Really? I’m surprised. I’ve heard that there’s been a fairly large population of S.E. Asians on the Gulf since the early 80s due to the fact that many boat people were already skilled in shrimp and crab fishing.

          1. Yeah, but they are pretty tribal. Mixed black/white couples are pretty common but you don’t see asian girls dating outside of their race much. Besides, everyone here is obsessed with cajun food. Can you blame them?

  21. You have got to be shitting me with that headline.

    The kid was chasing people around with knives at a school. He wasn’t just standing around. They didn’t just find them in his backpack. He had them out in his hands and was charging at people. In a world of school shootings happening all the time, the headline you choose to go with is “poor bullying victim attacked by murderous devil cop.”

    You wanna know a good way to not get shot? Don’t run at people with fucking knives. In a school.

    1. Yeah? We had a kid do that when I was a sophomore in HS. Six of us jumped on him and took his knife away. One guy got cut a little on his hand, nothing too serious. No cops were ever involved. The principle took care of it.

      Alternately our prom queen was murdered with a knife by a lunatic stalker that snuck into her house and hid in her bedroom. There was no one around to help her.

      1. That school has likely had thousands and thousands of students throughout the years. As far as I know, this kid was the first attendee to ever get shot there.

        Why? Because all the other kids didn’t threaten their classmates with knives.

        Don’t want to get killed? Don’t threaten to kill other people.

        Something about treating others the way you want to be treated.

        1. God damn Tulpa, how many fucking handles you plan to light on fire today.

          1. Right, everyone who disagrees with you is Tulpa. So is the monster under your bed.

            1. I don’t think you helped your case much

      2. God, I haven’t thought about that in years.

        http://www.tigerdroppings.com/…../41872927/

        That is about all I can find on it.

        After the arrest they had to move him to another parish. One night around midnight about 20 guys showed up at my house with their shotguns. They found out where he was and wanted me to go with them and drag his ass out of jail and kill him. I talked them out of it.

          1. Yes, thats her. She wasn’t a close friend of mine but we were in the same class and friendly from middle school on.

    2. If somebody crossed the street against the light at 1 PM, then walked into a bank and started shooting people, until being shot by a cop, Krayewski would probably headline the resulting article “Cop Shoots Jaywalker In Broad Daylight”.

      1. Oh, did the kid just stab a bunch of people?

      2. Are you on the side of the kid or the cops, I can’t tell. Perhaps a few more comments about your opinion??

        1. I’m on the side of the truth.

          1. If somebody crossed the street against the light at 1 PM, then walked into a bank and started shooting people, until being shot by a cop, Krayewski would probably headline the resulting article “Cop Shoots Jaywalker In Broad Daylight”.

            Do you find hyperbole and fallacious arguments useful in discovering it?

            1. It’s not much of a stretch given his history.

  22. False advertising, that HS’s name is, huh?

  23. What I see is a knife-wielding person in the middle of a crowd, telling people to get away, and not trying to approach anyone. I also think that if he’d actually thought he was going to be shot, he would’ve either dropped the knife or taken a hostage, and that if the surrounding people thought they were going to be cut, they wouldn’t’ve stayed there. I also think it was crazy to shoot, unless the shooter had a high vantage point.

    1. I also see a kid who probably had never been in a fight or done any boxing/wrestling/martial arts, who was in full on ‘flight’ mode due to the punch to the snot box and was completely incapable of bringing himself down let alone managing any sort of rational thought.

  24. Seems heartless to expect a pussy cop to handle a 14 year old with a knife. His pretty uniform might get scratched!

    1. You realize 14 year olds with knives can kill people?

      I think cops are a necessary evil at best, but seriously, you can’t expect them to take on people with knives. Stop watching action movies.

      1. If you want school “safety” in the hands of some pussy with a gun, then hire a private security guard with two weeks training at minimum wage. Cops are supposed to be able to handle dangerous situations.

  25. I’m speculating to myself about what the admin. & news rxns would’ve been had the cop shot 2 or 3 of them instead of just 1. How many would he have had to shoot before they decided he wasn’t a hero?

  26. Fuck, what a disaster. You know, the one thing I’m not hearing in the linked video is any command from the cop to surrender or put the knife down. Or any attempt to establish control beyond some asshole screaming, “back off!” If we want cops to just kill people, we can do that without all of that training on less-lethal means of force, force continuum, “ask-tell-make,” verbal judo, and all of the other things that make a cop a cop, and not some soldier occupying territory.

    I get that a 14 year old with a blade is a immediate deadly threat to anyone standing near him. I also get that handguns suck for immediately incapacitating a lethal threat. You still have to give the suspected criminal a chance to surrender.

    As John here used to put it, roughly paraphrased, “Any baboon can just shoot the guy. We expect police to be more than that.” I’m not asking the cop to put his life at risk; I’m asking him to attempt to use his superior training to assess the threat, take control of the situation, and use the lowest necessary level of force to do so.

    (Expletive stream), This crap reminds me more and more of the scene in Idiocracy where the cops light up Frito’s car.

    You just know, too, that the school had been warned before that this kid was getting his ass kicked, and didn’t do shit to stop it.

    1. ^ This.

      (1) I agree that it’s unreasonable to expect a cop to disarm a kid holding two knives. Try it sometimes with a rubber knife – unless you get very lucky, you basically have to take a couple wounds to get in, and frankly, I’m not OK asking cops to get stabbed or slashed as an intentional party of their job.

      (2) I also agree that if the kid is about to stab other kids, there’s no choice.

      (3) But, if there is any possibility to talk the situation down, I think you have to. I’ll leave it to the cop at the scene whether you want to just order everybody to get down or try to calm the kid down, but if you can, I think you have to try something.

      The counter argument, I guess, is that if you have a clear shot at that moment and might lose it because of the crowd, you’re risking losing your chance to shoot.

  27. I also get where Chip Your Pets, and other posters asking for some nuance in assessing the situation, is coming from.

    Ever since Balko left, Reason, IMHO, has been biased and terrible at assessing and reporting on LEO controversial uses of force. Cops aren’t horrible jackbooted thugs every time they have to use lethal force, but it’s difficult to understand that if all you see is Reason’s interpretation of those events. I found Balko to be much more discerning while he was here, and focused on the travesty that is LE’s overuse of no-knock and ‘knock and announce’ search warrant execution.

    That said, this particular use of force, in the uppermost linked video, looks really bad. Then again, so did the Trayvon Martin shooting to me at first glance, and I later changed my mind.

    1. I agree. But be careful, I get called names whenever I point to the nuances of such situations. And most do have nuances: there’s a lot of room between “Good shoot, nothing to see here” and “OMG police execution for no reason!!”

      Tragedies and accidents often follow from a series of mistakes. From a first read, the kid did something really stupid, by bringing knives to school and waving them around. (No, that isn’t a call for him to allow himself to be beaten up.) But the most stupid thing was to not drop the knives as soon as the cop showed up. At that point he was in no danger of being beaten up, but he was in immediate danger of being shot.

      That said, it looks like the cop was too quick on the trigger. It looks like he should have pointed his weapon and shouted “Drop the knives!” a few times. And if that didn’t work, then maybe a shot in the air to make the point firmly. (Though is that ever permitted these days? Maybe I’m going by old Western movies.)

      1. Watching the videos of shootings, the warnings are often shouted in half-panic and followed by shots within a very few seconds. Maybe not even a whole second.

        When someone gets shot by police, it seems to be the exception that there is a long standoff with “Drop the weapon!!” being shouted. Let alone a warning shot.

        More often it seems to be “Show me your hands! Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang…” followed by lots of commands to a corpse and stepping over the body.

        It has to be the training when you see officers arrive on scene, draw their weapons, issue a couple of shouted commands and shoot someone, armed or not, all in less than 8 seconds.

        Collectively they do this hundreds and hundreds of times per day – there are a million of them on the streets, after all. So if they are being trained that they have to make a decision instantly or they’ll end up dead, it is no wonder that they collectively make a couple of hundred mistakes every year. Nobody could be 100% perfect making life and death decisions in less than 5 seconds.

        This is why I keep harping on training for things like de-escalation, retreat and retrenchment, maintaining a safe distance, etc. So often their aggressive training leads them to take a manageable situation and close the gap and raise tensions until they feel forced to fire… because the knife-holder was only 15 feet away.

        But instead we’ll keep calling it racism, so nothing can change.

        1. Yeah, I don’t know exactly what happened.

          There’s so much I haven’t figured out – if they had a cop on the grounds, why didn’t the kid go to him and say, “oh, just so you know, they’ve scheduled a beatdown for me if you want to watch.”

          Or even better, his parents could email the school and the local media saying “we’re keeping out son out of school until you give us assurances the bullies will be punished.”

          They could even have their lawyer deliver that letter.

          Then nobody gets shot and the school has to explain to a reporter why things have gotten so bad that kids are afraid to go to their institution.

          1. And really, the kid really had bad timing with whipping out a knife or knives on school grounds.

            We just had a student with a knife going around stabbing people in the name of Allah the Merciful.

            So people are going to be jittery. It’s just reality.

            1. Yeah, but you can’t expect a 14 year old to make decisions like an adult would. Particularly not a 14 year old kid who is being threatened with physical violence on a regular basis, and who probably has a messed up social support network. He likely didn’t view any of the “adult solution” options as remotely viable.

              Go and tell the “resource officer” and he goes from bullied misfit to complete outcast pussy. You have to remember just how screwed up high school culture is.

              And on top of all of that, 14 year old minds are not really capable of mature decision making. That’s why we have age limits on consent and criminal culpability. Even though 14 year old kids can be very smart and very well educated, they still don’t think like a rational adult in a lot of situations.

              So just like I’m giving the cop a lot of leeway based on what he might have perceived, I can also see a world from a 14 year old kid point of view where pulling out a knife and making the bullies who were going to beat him up back down and run away this was going to remake his image and change his life… they’d never dare bother him again, and neither would anyone else. And all of those people with cell phones shooting video would be impressed and he’d never have to worry about being pushed around again.

              It doesn’t have to match reality in order for him to have believed it.

        2. Adrenaline makes time seem to slow down, which will make the person’s actions happen faster than they intend in real time. All the training in the world isn’t going to change that, because you’re not dealing with adrenaline in training.

          Frankly, as far as I’m concerned, if somebody is swinging huge knives around at people, the warning to drop them is a courtesy, not an obligation. You don’t want to get shot, don’t swing knives at people. Not hard.

          1. Bullshit. This wasn’t a case of the kid chasing other people around with a knife. It was a case of a kid with a knife telling the other kids to stay away from him. They didn’t want to be at risk of getting stabbed or slashed? All they had to do was leave him the hell alone. They weren’t doing that.

            How hard is it to say that the cops didn’t shoot the aggressor, they shot the aggressed. You probably can excuse that through ignorance and adrenaline. But, trying to make a kid who, as far as I can tell, was only brandishing a weapon in self-defense, makes you look like you’re advocating for bullying.

  28. I’m going to skip reading all of the comments arguing whether the other guy is felating the cops and go ahead and say there’s zero chance the officer is found to be in the wrong.

    Dude has a knife in hand, they always rule it a good shoot. Heck, simply having a weapon on your person is usually ruled as sufficient justification for deadly force.

    This is why we are still not making any progress. The police are trained to react this way, and then they do. Then the justification is that they followed their training.

    Nobody ever examines the training. It is way too shoot-happy.

    That being said, if the officer thought he was witnessing a crazy kid running through the crowd stabbing a bunch of people, he probably acted as he should have. You don’t want the police standing by assessing the situation while a bunch of kids are being stabbed.

    So depending on the particulars, he may have acted properly based on his knowledge, even if he acted terribly in the sense of absolute justice.

    Now I’ll go back and read the name-calling and knee-jerk responses.

  29. I hate public schools. They seem to be the biggest purveyor of stupidity in our crumbling country.

  30. ‘We simply don’t shoot first and ask questions later.”

    I’m not sure anyone asks questions later.

  31. If my kids were students at that shithole of a school, that would be their last day. You could fine me or throw me in jail- but they would never set foot there again.

  32. Extremely unfortunate.
    But the kid knowingly escalated the situation to deadly force. Premeditated at that bringing the knives to school. There were many simple alternatives including telling any adult at the school about the bullying threat or just not being physically present where he knew the attack was going to occur.
    I realize that teenage male brains rarely act rationally, but he’s reaping the consequences of his actions either way.

    1. Nothing good ever comes from telling the adults. Most teachers won’t do anything when bullying occurs. They only care when things become a fight (as in you defend yourself) and at that point they punish both sides equally. Furthermore, there is a likely chance that he couldn’t just “Not be there physically”. When I was in school, if somebody picked a fight with you, you likely couldn’t get out of it unless you didn’t go to school period that day, and when you did go to school you would likely be ambushed (not in the literal sense) before or after school.

      Somebody so desperate to defend themselves that they would carry a knife with them to school, and while brandishing it try to flee shows he didn’t go to fight. You don’t go to one unless you HAVE to go to it. And there’s no evidence he wanted to go to a fight. Clearly the opposite actually. I know that if I was that desperate that I would bring a knife to school and brandish so that I could flee that I didn’t want to be there. Fleeing is kind of the point. He didn’t want to be there, but had no real choice or perceived that there was no choice. When I was in school, missing a day wasn’t taken lightly.

    2. I actually had to go to court because I missed 4 days of school and my mother had to pay a fine for it. If somebody threatened me and and they wanted to fight me, I probably would not have been able to get out of it since most of the fights in school took place right outside of the main exit. Unless I planned on living at the school, I would have had to pass by that spot at least twice a day. Luckily if anybody tried to bully me they did so verbally and realized that I wasn’t affected by it and they were wasting their time. But many students did face physical bullying and 9 times out of 10 telling an adult either did nothing or made the matters worse as many of the teachers often participated in their own way to bully students. I had a math teacher who flat out refused to help a student on a problem he was having and she often called him a fag.

    3. When the adults are often just as bad as the students who do you really go to? Nobody will defend you, and you’re not allowed to defend yourself? He’s reaping the consequences of a school system that tolerates and in many cases encourages bullying while discouraging any real defense of the matter, and that he had to bring a knife to defend himself says a lot more about the school than him. The school had an oppotunity to wake up but instead chose to kick it under the rug. In a way he was a threat, but not to the students, they wanted to be there and they wanted him to be there as evidence that they were chasing him and closing off his exits. Now that he’s been shot, perhaps everybody can go back to sleep like nothing ever happened. And we can all pretend that he wanted to fight so much that he brought a knife and tried to flee the scene without hurting anybody including himself, because that’s what people that want to fight do right?

    4. Extremely unfortunate.
      But the kid knowingly escalated the situation to deadly force. Premeditated at that bringing the knives to school. There were many simple alternatives including telling any adult at the school about the bullying threat or just not being physically present where he knew the attack was going to occur.
      I realize that teenage male brains rarely act rationally, but he’s reaping the consequences of his actions either way.

      You’re trying to hard to rationalize something really stupid. He did not create the national hysteria that causes cops to perforate anyone who has a weapon like they’re (both) dangerous animals.

      “Premeditated” self-defense is still just self-defense. How is self-defense not always morally in the right? Many-versus-one requires escalation on your part or else you don’t have the ability to defend yourself.

      Having said all that, I’m suspicious there’s a lot more to the story, since the story we got is primarily based on the words of a professional liar (i.e. a lawyer) and a few countering words from an administration who’s career survival probably depends on the cop being in the right.

  33. I wonder how many thousands of hours these kids have watched TV shows featuring beatings, murder, robbery, rape and torture? You know, the kind, rich, rich Hollywood actors portray before going to vote for an ‘I Care’ politician such as Hillary.

  34. When I was in school a few years ago I saw a lot of this same kind of behaviors going on. There was one time when a couple of students decided to pick a fight with another that they were bullying. They beat him up for a good bit until he decided to fight back and they nearly broke his arm. Because he fought back he got the same punishment they did. Zero tolerance got him suspended just as they were. But Zero Tolerance was completely tolerant all of the other times he had gotten bullied and even hit.

    Teachers didn’t care that force was being used (and they saw it occur plenty of times even), they only took care of things after things became a fight, which was when he decided enough was enough. In a way you could say that the teachers were a part of the bullying because bullying was tolerated. Most students when I was in school would have either done nothing or would have watched what they saw as something very exciting. And since most of the bullies were friendly acquaintances, I could very well see others jumping in if needed to lay down a beating on some other kid.

  35. Maybe this kid has had a shady past, but I just can’t bring myself to fault him for defending himself, even if it was with a knife. Even if you think the shooting was justified, there was very clearly a failure of the administration to deescalate things and step in with the bullying while it was clearly manageable. But schools now a days don’t do anything of the sort. This school clearly waited and watched as a child was bullied. Until one day he snaps and not even in the shoot up the school way. He brought a knife to protect himself because nobody else would. He probably thought it would be better to be suspended than get the shit beat out of him, but he didn’t expect that the school cop would just shoot him.

    He clearly was just trying to defend himself, he didn’t want to hurt anybody as his screams for them to get back show. And it’s clear that had the students done that then nobody would have been in any danger. But they didn’t they chased him desperate to record a beat down. Him pulling out the knife only made him look even worse to them and they wanted it even more and didn’t care about the risk to themselves or didn’t realize the danger they were putting themselves in.

  36. Then the cop shows up and shoots a kid who was clearly just trying to defend himself from bullies and not only shoots him but puts other students into harm’s way. If he had missed, he could have killed another student. And he couldn’t claim to fear for his life because he was putting himself in harm’s way. You really have to stretch things and ignore others in order to make this guy out to be some hero.

    A tragedy has occured and once again we teach students that if you’re getting bullied, that nobody cares unless you take matters into your own hands. People will watch with excitement as you get beaten or die, but as soon as you defend yourself even in the most innocent of ways, they’ll treat you like the bully, and if you defend yourself with a weapon they’ll treat you like you wanted to kill everybody. Because of the twisted lesson society teaches children in schools, is it no wonder that suicide rates among the bullied are so high. They can’t defend themselves without punishment and the people who claim to be there for you to defend you participate in it as well. It’s pretty damn sickening and hypocritical that the same people who are perpetually offended at the slightest “microaggression” are often the very same people who sit and watch or join in actual aggression.

  37. This is why security guards are paid, oh, minimum wage.

  38. Houston argued the teenager brought some kitchen knives to school in anticipation of being jumped by a group of seniors who had assaulted him the previous day

    Daily Mail Article
    Father: ‘He brought the knives because he was gonna b jumped and he was the school knew of this and failed to act.’

    Demographics of Procter R. Hug High School in Reno, Nevada
    14% White
    71% Hispanic

    Thought Experiment:
    How do you think the story would have been reported if an hispanic kid had been shot by police when he tried to defend himself from “being jumped by a group of seniors who had assaulted him the previous day” at a 71% white school?

  39. Well, that sucked. My sympathy goes out to that young man’s family… and nobody else. It could have been my family. Maybe it will be.

    Given my own history with school bullying, I can’t really speak my mind about this without making Chippergate look like a walk in the park.

    Nice to see the boot-licking retard brigade showed up again to explain how procedures were followed and this is no big deal and he was no angel and he was probably asking for it and it was his fault and we don’t know what really happened and corporal punishment and back in my day and the phone video never landed on the moon because it was an inside job and Jesus Fucking Christ kill yourselves.

    I don’t believe in wishing ill on people. I have my reasons for that. That said: “If you were on fire, and I had a glass of water, I’d drink it.”

    Some friendly advice for everybody (and their sock drawer) still making bullshit excuses for this snuff film lynching: Grow the fuck up.

    Merry Christmas.

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  41. As a white male, he was a part of the colonialist racist patriarchal system destroying the world and therefore the cops did us a favor.

  42. Why has the officer’s name not been revealed? He’s not the victim and not a minor.

    1. Most police officers work under labor contracts and/or a legislated police officers’ “Bill of Rights” that give them extensive protection against scrutiny and accountability. At this point in the investigation it’s unlikely the police department is even permitted to acknowledge that a police shooting took place, let alone identify the officer. That’s why we always see the weasel term “officer involved shooting” in news coverage?they can’t say an officer actually fired shots, just that an officer was “involved”.

  43. I’m fine with this shooting kid had knives, as usual if he had dropped them he would have been fine

    1. We don’t know that he was given the opportunity to do that. John Crawford and Tamir Rice were not. Many others have been shot by police while unarmed.

    2. He would be fine.

      He could go back to “being jumped by a group of seniors”.

      Fine.

      Nothing more fine that being caged by the government where you can be beaten daily by packs of the other caged animals.

      Fine.

  44. When I was in 5th grade, a high school senior would intercept me on my way home everyday and beat me up. This happened for about a month. I told the teachers and they did nothing. I took a pair of fingernail clippers with a half inch blade to school. Waited for him to start the ritual of beating me up and stabbed him in the thigh. Amazingly, he stopped the ritual. Good thing there were no cops around or I would have been shot and he would have been a hero.

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