Election 2016

Obligatory "Don't Vote for Gary Johnson Because Ralph Nader Stole 2000 Election" Warning…

Novelist Carl Hiaasen is so worked up over Hillary Clinton losing he mistook a parody for straight news.

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Johnson campaign

Florida former newsman and current novelist Carl Hiaasen has penned a heartfelt screed against voting for anyone other than a Republican or a Democrat for president (and if we're being totally honest, he only wants people to vote for Hillary Clinton). He's especially worried about Libertarian Gary Johnson because, well, Johnson is kind of popular. The idea of thousands of people voting Libertarian "would be much more amusing if Johnson were a non-factor in the election, and if the stakes weren't so high."

In fact, the fellow behind a long string of best-sellers (most recently Razor Girl) is so worried about Clinton possibly losing that Hiaasen mistook an Andy Borowitz humor column in The New Yorker for an actual account of Gary Johnson's favorite leaders. In its original published form, the column said that Johnson had named characters from Star Wars and Lord of the Rings as inspirations for his foreign policy.

Editor's note: This column originally referred to Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson's comments on Obi-Wan Kenobi and Frodo. Those comments were part of a satirical column by Andy Borowitz in The New Yorker, and Johnson never made them.

Hiaasen feels your pain, dear voter, even if he can't quite wrap his mind around the idea that there are people out there who are not simply registering protest by voting for third parties. Me, for instance: I'm not "flipping off the establishment" by voting for Johnson. I'm actively pulling the lever for the candidate who comes closest to expressing my politics.

Every four years, lots of fed-up Americans cast their ballots for fringe candidates whom they know can't possibly win. This is a freedom we own—the right to willfully waste a responsibility that most people in the world only dream of obtaining.

This year, when the two major U.S. parties have nominated candidates disliked by so many voters, there's a strong temptation to turn to someone else—practically anyone else.

Perhaps you feel you'd be serving your conscience by voting for any other name on the ballot besides Trump or Clinton. Maybe you imagine waking up the next day proud of yourself for figuratively flipping off the establishment.

Give Hiaasen credit for magical thinking, though, especially in passages such as this one:

Lots of people thought the same thing back in 2000. That's the year Florida botched the presidential balloting, and George W. Bush was declared the official winner here by a measly 537 votes over Al Gore.

That's what sent Bush to the White House.

And that's why Arlington National Cemetery now has so many graves in a place called Section 60, where military casualties of the Iraq war are buried.

Let's ignore for the moment that Al Gore, a sitting vice president who totally blew his election campaign through a mix of strategic blunders and longstanding policy problems, lost a race he should have won easily. Recall that George W. Bush wasn't just considered a lightweight with relatively little experience, but that Gore was deemed a regular Wile E. Coyote super-genius when it came to wonkery, seriousness, and character. And let's also ignore that Gore's attitudes toward regime change in Iraq (which he supported as veep) are far from clear. No, just consider this: Hiaasen is willing to blame Florida for the Bush victory and thus the Iraq War—and then tell you that you should vote for Hillary Clinton, who actually voted for the Iraq War.

But come on, the real threat in 2016 is voting for the one candidate, Gary Johnson, who could theoretically win a state or two and has outlined a non-interventionist foreign policy:

The math from the 2000 fiasco is simple. If only 538 of the 138,000 Floridians who threw away their votes on no-chance, third-party candidates had chosen Gore instead, he would have won the presidency.

And Section 60 in Arlington wouldn't have so many graves.

Read whole thing here. And then vote your conscience, not somebody else's.

NEXT: The Notorious RBG apologizes for interview comments (again)

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  1. Something about this election is really bringing out the idiocy in the chattering classes.

    1. It’s almost as though, in the midst of a stupid cynical nihilistic revolt by voters against the so-called establishment, those who identify as part of the establishment are doing everything they can to vindicate said revolt. It’s like their default response to over the top hyperbolic attacks on them is to devolve into the very caricatures their more imaginative critics had in mind.

      So meta.

      1. Let them eat cake.

          1. Looks like Hillary’s been hoovering all the cake.

            1. She’s gotten so fat she walks like a pregnant woman. Six months pregnant.

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              2. I Make up to $90 an hour working from my home. My story is that I quit working at Walmart to work online and with a little effort I easily bring in around $70h to $86h?Go to this website and click tech tab to start your work? Visit this web? http://www.14EarnPath.Com

        1. More precisely, let them eat yellowcake.

      2. Like the “pay your taxes” movement in the 1930s?

    2. Im too young to know. Was the media this mindlessly abusive toward John Anderson, Ralph Nader and Ross Perot as well?

      1. LH-

        It’s basically the advance of media being “Democrats with by-lines”

        I was 15 in ’79 so I can’t say I was really paying attention- but as I remember, the media was respectable towards Anderson (even arch-liberal Norman Lear and Garry Trudeau’s “Doonesbury” gave him a positive push).

        Ross Perot was a weird case. Press coverage wasn’t bad at first, but it soon became all “crazy-ass rich dude”, mainly because he was Ross Perot- who was a crazy-ass rich dude. :o)

        Nader was/is Nader. Media and the progs absolutely loved him- until GWB won. He then became “persona non grata”.

        1. Anderson was, in theory, taking votes from Reagan.

          Perot was, in theory, taking votes from Bush, then it became apparent he was taking votes from both, and things changed.

          Nader wasnt taking enough votes to matter, until he did.

      2. As I recall, Anderson was supported by the msm to the point that his campaign almost seemed to be their creation. Too bad the Libertarian Party candidate at the time, Ed Clark, didn’t receive even half as much attention as the media darling, Anderson – even though he was on the ballot in all fifty states.

      3. The press ignored Ross Perot until his poll numbers started to scare the shit out of the establishment. Then he was “dangerous” and his much-simpler tax plan was “unrealistic”. After Perot, the establishment parties lobbied to make it difficult for independent candidates to get on the ballot, and they succeeded. For an independent to get on the ballot in every state now would require close to a million signatures. Even getting registered as a write-in candidate in 43 states requires a separate application process in each state.

        The mouth-breathing menopausal Dem hags still bitching about Nader are fact-proof. It doesn’t matter how many times you tell them that 13% of their own party voted for Bush in Florida because Gore was about as inspiring and compelling as a moldy banana. They just don’t learn. If people don’t want to vote for your candidate, the problem isn’t them being able to choose who they want to vote for. The problem is your weak-ass candidate.

        1. I wanted Perot to win so bad. He was a big deal for a while, until he started to get some traction, and somehow they cut his short little legs out from under him.

    3. Fuck GIFs substituting for video.

      That is all.

      1. Fuck GIFs substituting for video.

        That is all.

        FTFY

      2. I prefer gifs. Easier to view on mobile and don’t have to worry about sound.

        1. I don’t have unlimited data, so I hate them in principle.

          They’re rarely funny, either.

          1. How can you not laugh at the Hillary having a seizure gif?

    4. They have a name Woody, it’s Proles.

    5. My Co-Worker’s step-sister made $14285 the previous week. She gets paid on the laptop and moved in a $557000 condo. All she did was get blessed and apply the guide leaked on this web site. Browse this site….
      This is what I do… http://www.Trends88.Com

    6. My Co-Worker’s step-sister made $14285 the previous week. She gets paid on the laptop and moved in a $557000 condo. All she did was get blessed and apply the guide leaked on this web site. Browse this site….
      This is what I do… http://www.Trends88.Com

  2. Anna . I see what you mean… Virginia `s postlng is incredible, last tuesday I got a new Audi Quattro after having made $5000 this last 5 weeks and over 10k this past month . without a doubt it is the coolest work I have ever had . I started this seven months/ago and pretty much immediately started making minimum $85 per hour . view it
    ????????> http://www.factoryofincome.com

  3. Well thanks for the moralising lecture, fucking novelist former newsman. I was really on the fence before this intellectual lightweight weighed in.

    1. I’m still weighing my options until Garrison Keillor tells me what to think.

    2. Exactly. The guy who wrote the book that became Striptease? Who cares what he thinks.

      On the other hand, if the guy who wrote that other, far superior stripper movie from the mid 1990s told me how to vote, then maybe I’d listen.

      1. Dude you don’t understand and didn’t RTFA. You see, all those people that voted Nader caused Iraq War II.

      2. Hey, I saw that movie and didn’t know Hiassen was involved!

        I mean, I know someone who saw the movie and said it was OK.

        1. Hey, he is also responsible for Hoot, which my young’un liked.

          1. A movie about talking owls, I’m guessing?

            1. Close… I’m so glad I didn’t go with my other guess.

          2. “Hey, he is also responsible for Hoot, which my young’un liked.”

            Why let your kids watch a proggie propaganda piece like Hoot? Are you trying to raise a SJW?

        2. +1 epileptic seizure/pool sex scene.

  4. So, is ‘ol Carl going to apologize for all the graves Hillary’s interventions will add? Didn’t think so.You know who’s responsible for Bush winning instead of Gore? The people who voted for Bush. Next comes the people who nominated that loser Gore.BTW, I voted Libertarian in Florida in 2000; suck it Carl!

    1. Hear hear. Do you think this moron is completely unaware of Hillary’s warmongering ways, or is he mentally blocking out all things foreign policy when his pea brain stumbles upon the word “Hillary”?

  5. His books are fun, don’t let his Hollywood celebrity-level understanding of politics ruin that for you. I remember when I was locked up I got my hands on one and finished it in a single day of lockdown. Much preferable to the previous book I managed to obtain in there, which was lesbian vampire short stories.

    1. They had copies of Twilight in prison? Definitely constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.

    2. What was the title of the lesbian vamp compilation? Asking for a friend.

    3. What was the title of the lesbian vamp compilation? Asking for a friend.

    1. Like Elmore Leonard, writes terrific little novels set in south Florida. Unlike Leonard, the film adaptations of his books aren’t very good. On the humor scale, he’s no Dave Barry, but who the hell is? Probably stands atop the “Florida Comic Crime Novel” genre, with Tim Dorsey nipping at his heels.

      Randy Wayne White also writes splendid Florida crime novels. The times I’ve met RWW, he’s never indicated any tendency toward silly statism.

      As for Carl, read the novels, ignore the movies, and for damn sure skip his op-eds in the Miami Herald.

      1. I liked the one Hiaasen novel I read, largely because it wasn’t condescending towards the people just trying to go about their daily lives without engaging in political grandstanding, despite having political elements.

        I’m not sure that I’ll be able to enjoy another.

  6. Let’s see, if enough people could actually get themselves to NOT throw their vote away on either of the corrupt candidates represented by a D or an R, then the guy could win.

    1. How is Trump corrupt? He’s less of an “R” than GayJay or Weld.

      1. I wouldn’t say he’s corrupt, but I would call him a crony. In his defense, when the system is crony, he had little choice if success was his (only) goal.

      2. Gosh, you’re right.

        And he couldn’t possibly be involved in mafia corruption in labor and the attendant government/police coverup, or anything from him building AC casinos in the 80’s. Nope. Never. Go suck that dick.

      3. He uses his power to intimidate women so he can grab their pussies? (C’mon my point was that why does everyone INCORRECTLY assume that third party voters are always playing spoiler and NOT voicing disdain for the other choices or because they really like the third party candidate.)

        1. “When you grab them by their balls, their hearts and minds will follow.”
          Trump is just being equal-opportunity here, with “If you grab them by their pussies…”

      4. Besides his imminent domain abuses, gaming the tax system and bragging that his experience in buying politicians will be useful in dealing with corruption as president I guess your right. He’s probably clean as a whistle.

        1. How did he “game the tax system”?

          1. He didn’t pay more than he owed look it says in the social contract.

          2. First not a Hillary shill ok.
            Second the taxes issues has the weakest case of the three cases I offered of Trump opportunistically skirting the gray boundaries of the law. It may not be illegal but its also not really looked on favorably. Just like its not illegal for a sitting secretary of state to meet with foreign national who also coincidentally contribute to her family’s foundation.
            I’m not really spouting Clinton campaign lines. I personally don’t know and am not shocked just shocked Trump may not have paid income tax for 18 years. I was more referencing things he brags about. Something like:
            ‘Believe me I can fix the taxes. There’s no one who knows the loopholes like me’.

            1. There’s no one who knows the loopholes like me’.

              Except for the politicians who created them. They don’t like to pay taxes either.

  7. “Editor’s note: This column originally referred to Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson’s comments on Obi-Wan Kenobi and Frodo. Those comments were part of a satirical column by Andy Borowitz in The New Yorker, and Johnson never made them.”

    Way to showcase your ability to distinguish fact from fiction, Carl.

    But point taken – don’t vote for a third party, cast your vote in such a way as to defeat the warmonger.

    Are you sure you want to go there?

  8. Al gore did win the election. He lost a 5-4 vote at the supreme court and thus the electoral college.
    This among many factors contributed to the outcome in 2000. Nader is one of them, indisputably. Florida or New Hampshire, take your pick; no Nader, no Bush.
    Extremism in defense of spoiling elections that lead to torture and endless war is no virtue.

    1. See, it wasn’t Nader’s fault after all, so it’s OK to vote third party, thank you, Tony.

      1. Right. And there is at least some evidence to suggest that Gore would’ve gone into Iraq as well.

        But mostly I blame Nader for the Cubs losing the NCLS in 2003. If Gore had won, Florida wouldn’t have gotten the self-esteem to think they could field a winning baseball team. Luis Castillo and Neifi Perez wouldn’t have fouled off 63 pitches, Josh Beckett would’ve been eaten by an alligator, and the Cubs would’ve won the NLCS and then swept the Yankees in the WS. Long story short, Ralph Nader ruined my life.

    2. A media-sponsored recount using the Florida Supreme Court’s standards found that Bush would have won anyway even if the US Supreme Court hadn’t stepped in.

      The source of this is an article from the right-wing nuts at PBS.

      1. The unofficial recount was sponsored by the Miami Herald and USA Today.

      2. If Gore had asked for a statewide recount at the beginning he would have gotten it. But what he wanted to do is go fishing for votes in heavily democrat counties while staying the hell out of heavily republican counties where he might have unearthed more Bush votes, too. He never wanted an honest count.

        1. Honest Al!

        2. Anyone who didn’t understand this is an idiot. The only people trying to steal the election were the democrats.

          1. Mark my words: They’ll be trying to steal this one, too. All the bullshit about hacking of election systems, Russian sponsored Wikki Leaks interference, etc. etc. is just laying the preparatory groundwork for a challenge of the results in a close election lost by the Dems.

    3. “Extremism” in this case meaning allowing people to vote third party?

      1. Extremism meaning allowing people to vote *second* party.

        There’s no reason to oppose the Democratic Party, if your concerns are legitimate, the leaders will listen to you.

        1. ^This^ I gave up writing letters to my former congressman-a ten-term dem who always is re-elected with 70% of the vote because he never responded, or sent me some dismissive form letter with talking points. For any politician, D or R, to listen to you, promise to cut them a big check and they might find your concerns legitimate.

          1. How many of those ‘do something about these damn kids on my lawn’ letters did you send?

    4. I’m sure you were equally upset when Ross Perot spoiled the election for GHWB.

      And what did I just read? Even for you that’s dense Tony, you’re dropping the ball. Both the main candidates are more extremist than Johnson, who’s basically running as a milquetoste centrist.

      And voting for Hillary to stop torture and endless war? Say that again please?

    5. Nader is hardly an extremist so if someone votes for him that’s extremism. Makes perfect sense.

    6. It amuses me that you are still butthurt about this 16 years later. I mean, at this point what difference does it make?

      1. Can’t we just move on?

      2. One good thing to come out of the 8 illegitimate years of Bush was ample demonstration of the disastrous consequences of electing Republicans president. One might have underestimated the ability of people to ignore the things that run counter to their pro-Republican narrative, however, despite how obvious and widespread the destruction was.

        1. And yet, you’ve vociferously supported the next president who continued or enhanced all of those same failed policies and are getting ready to pull the lever for a woman who not only would support those same policies (yet again), but is actively agitating Russia for no goddamn reason.

          Face it, you don’t really care what America’s foreign policy is, you only care about lording over your fellow citizens and ensuring they have little to no economic opportunities.

          1. The best part is they sobbingly and unabashedly defended it as Change?.

    7. In a democracy, every vote counts. So you can blame outcomes on small minorities.

      That’s what democracy’s all about.

      Just drink a case and it’ll start making sense.

    8. Multiple news organizations like the NYT paid to have the ballots recounted in Florida, and the final verdict was that Bush won Florida on the vote count. Maybe the Democrats should try fielding a better candidate once again.

    9. Tony:

      “Al gore did win the election. He lost a 5-4 vote at the supreme court and thus the electoral college.”

      This “winning” thing: I don’t think it means what you think it means.

    10. Oh Tony, never change. It would be a duller world without you, like a world without syphilis.

    11. “Al gore did win the election. ”

      Only if you consider manufacturing votes out of invalid ballots and attempting to selectively recount votes in certain counties “winning” – otherwise no he didn’t win it.

  9. What’s GayJay polling these days, 5% and falling? His dope=addled “supporters” are flocking back to Hitlery because they’re too stoned to “grok” the Goddamned wikileak email reveal.

    Get on the #MAGA train before you fall under it, Nick. Do you want to live out your days as a legless hobo pushing yourself around on a cart like like some effete limp wristed version of Achilles Schmidt?

    1. Melenia is probably a bit upset at this point, after the revelations about Trump’s behavior. If you’d like to go suck his dick, and leave this awful non-libertarian place FOREVER, no one would blame you.

      1. So give us the “libertarian case for Hitlery Kkklinton”. C’mon, we’re waiting…

        1. You don’t vote for her?

        2. The libertarian case for Trump over Clinton: Do you prefer death by 1000 cuts or 1239 cuts? Trump will bleed you out a hair slower.

          1. Who knows WTF Trump will do? We only know who adamantly believes he’s cutting off their gravy train to power and money. Fuck those guys. There’s a a Goddamned Revolution going on and you useful idiots cosmos are voting for a couple of guaranteed loser Rockefeller Republicans

            1. Ah, yes. Us people who refuse to vote for a slightly less corrupt candidate over an overtly corrupt candidate are the reason our federal government continues to become incrementally more corrupt.

              Just admit it, SIV: You’re just another run of the mill shithead who votes out of ‘Fear of the Other’ over any supposed principles. It’s okay, 90% of your fellow Americans are on board with you.

            2. Not touching Social security, medicaid/medicare, ramping up military spending, imposing paid maternity leave and going on an infrastructure spending bonanza probably aren’t going to do the trick. Maybe thats why Trump places 3rd amongst members of that super liberal profession of economist when rating which candidate is best for the economy.

            3. Not touching Social security, medicaid/medicare, ramping up military spending, imposing paid maternity leave and going on an infrastructure spending bonanza probably aren’t going to do the trick. Maybe thats why Trump places 3rd amongst members of that super liberal profession of economist when rating which candidate is best for the economy.
              Google the US News and World Report article

            4. A revolution? You sound like a Berntard now.
              Which revolution will it be like? France 1789? Russia 1917? Germany 1933? Spain 1936?

              Yeah I think I’ll pass on your revolution, and pretty much any other revolution for that matter.

              1. The revolution SIV is talking about is the chicken he is twirling around above his head in an attempt to purify his area of rationality.

              2. What about America 1776? You monarchist Tory scum make me sick. /sarc

      2. Or the “#NeverTrump case for 2 Republikkan governors”.. How’s it feel to be on TEAM RED, BP?

        ‘Cause GayJay/Weld is nothing but a counter-revolutionary Republican spoiler-ticket to preserve the status quo. You may as well be pulling for “libertarian-Republican” Ellen McMuffin!

        1. Counter-revolutionary? lol what is this 1968 for fat old degenerates.

    1. That would work as Matt Welch exhorting people to vote for GayJay as well.

  10. I haven’t seen much play about it in the media, but it appears to me that our inability to stay the fuck out of middle eastern internal affairs is pushing us closer and closer to real conflict with a certain Eurasia super power that we really shouldn’t have a reason to be in conflict with. I don’t know why this isn’t being treated as the HUGE deal it it actually is. If we end up at war with Russia over meddling is countries that we should give a shit about in the first place, I’m gonna lose my shit.

    1. Do you know where your nearest fallout shelter is? I remember seeing those black and yellow signs everywhere as a kid in the 70s and 80s. Haven’t seen one in a long time but they might need to dust them off soon.

      1. I salvaged one during a renovation project, and it’s hanging on the shelves in my garage. It’s got so I wish I had the shelter to go under it.

        1. I’ve got a Civil Defensesteel barrel stored at my elderly parents home. Unfortunately, pops moved it outside where it’s gathered a little rust. Not too bad but it was pristine back when I got it in the early ’90s for a couple of $.

      2. I have a tornado shelter and live way out in the middle of nowhere Arkansas, so I think I can survive the fallout, however it would be much much better if there wasn’t a need to have to survive the fallout.

        1. I live 6 miles from the White House and Capitol, so at least I will be quickly vaporized.

        2. It’s a small price to pay for Hillary to prove that she’s the better man.

      3. If you live in a college town, a shit-ton of those old buildings built in the 50’s and 60’s the basements are still technically fallout shelters

        OK, they don’t have 40 years of stockpiled beans anymore, so you might have to resort to cannibalism. My advice is to grab an impromptu weapon as soon as you can. Before it turns into one of those old Bugs Bunny cartoons with the two shipwreck survivors looking at each other like a steak meal. (Jeez, those old cartoons got dark really quick.)

    2. Hey, if the media couldn’t give less of a fuck about the Pentagon misplacing $6.5 trillion dollars(which should be the biggest goddamn scandal of the 21st century but, nary a peep) what makes you think they are overly worried about that?

    3. Lachowsky|10.16.16 @ 11:09PM|#
      “I haven’t seen much play about it in the media, but it appears to me that our inability to stay the fuck out of middle eastern internal affairs is pushing us closer and closer to real conflict with a certain Eurasia super power that we really shouldn’t have a reason to be in conflict with.”

      Agreed and for that and other reasons, I offer the “Sevo Middle East Crisis Resolution” ™
      1. Run a whole lot of transport vessels into whatever ports we can use on the eastern Mediterranean littoral.
      2. Grab every bit of US military material we can still lay our hands on and load it into those ships.
      3. Send those loaded ships to the US for unloading.
      4. Put the entire compliment of US military personnel in the Mid East in airplanes.
      5. Fly them to the US.
      Crisis solved.
      Those folks pose no direct danger to us whatsoever. Let them argue their bleever differences to their hearts’ content with whatever weapons they have until there are few of them left alive.
      I.
      Don’t.
      Care.

      1. I would actually vote for that. See of we can get it on a a ballot initiative or something.

      2. Wouldn’t “smart power at its best” be to not ever enter into any kind of armed conflict unless you really really had to*. And if you really really had to, then do it right. Unless we are willing as a country to absolutely destroy a country, (and as a result a great number of its citizens) then we should keep our military home.

        *really really had to meaning that we faced an existential threat. A real one. Not some foreign dictatorial shit stain is being a shit stain to the people that put him in power in the first place.

        1. “*really really had to meaning that we faced an existential threat. A real one. Not some foreign dictatorial shit stain is being a shit stain to the people that put him in power in the first place.”

          I do feel bad for the dimwits who voted Chavez and then Maduro into power in Venezuela. Really, I do. And I’m more than willing to say ‘You guys really screwed the pooch. Hope you figure it out. If not, you got what you wanted and tough shit.’
          Regarding the Mid East, I do feel bad for the rational people who live there. Really, I do. And I’m more than willing to say ‘You guys are stupid fucking bleevers and if you choose to kill each other over your fantasies, help yourselves.’

      3. How about we sell both all sides all the weapons that they need ?
        Make a profit, and “our” military personal do not need to be killed in useless wars.
        Let them kill each other.

        1. That means we’d need retail outlets there. No thanks.

          1. Come to think of it, if some individuals were welling to take the risks, given local knowledge, why not?

          2. Nah, let them buy it through Amazon Prime – free shipping.

      4. Those folks pose no direct danger to us whatsoever. Let them argue their bleever differences to their hearts’ content

        Except when they come here and bring their bleever shit with them (which they will be compelled to do by said bleef). So, unless you’re also including barring all flights from there, your grade is “Incomplete”.

    4. Invading that “certain Eurasia super power” didn’t help either? they’re still butthurt about that.

  11. I remain unconvinced that there would not have been some kind of unnecessary bloodbath had Al Gore won in 2000. The guy had picked rabid neocon Joe Lieberman as veep and at the time the consensus was that he had Bush were almost indistinguishable in their policies. So there may have been no voluntary war with Iraq (or would there have been)? But you can bet your ass that he would not have been a Jimmy Carteresque non-interventionist.

    One benefit of a Gore presidency would have likely dragged the dems into the toilet and we would not be faced with another Clinton administration.

    1. Whatever happened to that lock box anyway?

      1. GWB at one point talked about maybe allowing people to convert their SS security accounts into something like a 401K or IRA. He was vilified as being worse than Hitler for thinking such thoughts.

    2. In the 2000 race, Bush positioned himself as advocating a “more humble foreign policy” that promised to eschew nation-building, in contradistinction to Gore’s American Greatness foreign policy.

      It was, of course, bullshit on Bush’s part. The point is that Gore was just as trigger happy as Bush.

      1. To be fair, September 11th happened.

    3. I remain unconvinced that there would not have been some kind of unnecessary bloodbath had Al Gore won in 2000. …So there may have been no voluntary war with Iraq (or would there have been)?

      Gore during the 1990s enforced a no-fly zone/sanctions regime i Iraq that was in a progressive state of failure. Iraq was the biggest “problem” in the world, and no democrat other than Bill Clinton himself was more hawkish in regards to the necessity for urgent regime change in Iraq than Gore. It was just a matter of “how” to do it – not “if”; Gore’s objections in 2002 were more political than strategic. And his complaints during the war were more about needing to do more ‘nation building’, get the UN involved – not “get out and stay out”

      He made speeches after the first gulf war where he said it was a mistake not to get rid of saddam, and he gave speeches after 9/11 saying overthrowing Saddam was an inevitable objective which would have to be a centerpiece of any WoT; Clinton/Gore had gone to war in Iraq as recently as 1998 – and their reasoning *why*?

      The stated goal of the cruise missile and bombing attacks was to strike military and security targets in Iraq that contributed to Iraq’s ability to produce, store, maintain and deliver weapons of mass destruction.

      Sound familiar? If anything, Gore was *more* fixated on Iraq than Bush

  12. And then vote your conscience, not somebody else’s.

    and you can also “don’t vote” your conscience.

  13. “Pat Buchanan, the neo-conservative pundit, …”

    That would be news to Buchanan, I’m sure. Solid research there, Carl.

    1. I thought he was a paleo-conservative.

      1. He is.

    2. Calling Buchanan a neo-conservative would be like calling Ann Coulter a Democratic Party operative.

  14. “…The idea of thousands of people voting Libertarian “would be much more amusing if Johnson were a non-factor in the election, and if the stakes weren’t so high.”…”

    Right.
    This dimbulb is worried that Trump will be worse than Clinton, and it’s certain that one sewage treatment plant smells worse than the other.
    But why would you choose either one?

    1. This guy along with the rest of the chattering class do not get that most people who vote for third parties do so because they fucking hate the two established candidates, not because they are trying to make a statement. So what do they do? Tell us that the “stakes are too high-you must vote for Hillary!!!” My ass I will. If Trump is elected, he is not going to last a full term, and might even be forced out within the first few months- I can live with that much more than an insidiously corrupt old hag with hawkish tendencies. Hillary is comfortably winning Virginia anyway it looks like, so I guess my vote for GJ will be a mere protest vote.

      1. By now, even sampling SF political winds, I find one who ‘will move to Canada if Trump wins’ (right) and one other who is, uh, sort of strong for the felon. Both are wymins…
        Finally saw the first Clinton bumper sticker today; wife said it was the first she’d seen.
        I’m beginning to hope this won’t be bad regardless of the clown who gets the vote; both stink enough to make whatever they propose a non-starter.
        By now, given Trump’s talent at digging a deeper and deeper hole, I’m guessing more than 320 EC votes for the felon. And both of those who really think she’s other than a slime-bag will be jumping and screaming; the rest of us will go to bed early.

  15. Lobbyists don’t want to share their money with a third candidate. And nobody receiving that lobbyist money wants to rock the boat.

  16. “This is a freedom we own?the right to willfully waste a responsibility that most people in the world only dream of obtaining.”

    Yes, yes, bianary political advocate. MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EVAH!!!

    Same as the last one. Every Republican candidate is literally worse than Hitler and every Democratic candidate is Stalin reincarnated.

    Yawn.

    One thing is for certain, both of the major party candidates will do everything they can to expand the power of the Executive Branch of our federal government.

    Fuck them both.

    1. To death.

  17. “Same as the last one. ”

    Meet the new boss…same as the old boss…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgubG-MOPT4

    1. The song is called “Won’t Get Fooled Again.” Ha.

    2. Pete Townshend wasn’t exactly prophetic in regards to the American voting public, eh?

      1. Pete for the Nobel Prize!
        Oh, wait. It was just handed to another entertainer….

  18. How the hell does anyone support the woman openly pushing for war with Russia?

    I mean, I get not voting for Trump, but Jesus H. Science.

    1. Well at least she isn’t a Russian spy that works with Wikileaks to undermine America.

  19. Hiaasen can sniff out republican bullshit and hypocrisy a mile a way, but for some reason he seems very immune to the stench of the democrat party. It’s a real shame because honest humor and satire is a great way to inform the reader of the ongoing nonsense of the rulers.

  20. Okay. I am going to vote for Trump.
    Not only will I enjoy prog tears of infinite sadness, and outrage.
    The Fucking riot porn. Oh God The Fucking riot porn !!!!
    If Trump wins then the Progs will be more suggestive to this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeHrjguBe6s

    1. Libertarian Party, Take notice.
      Exploit electoral emotional chaos.
      Think, and feel like a leftist.

  21. I am so sick of this stupid and tired argument. They keep advocating being a strategic voter but only using grade school strategy. Beside the fact that a minor party candidate could plausibly pull down a successful major party candidate and you should never vote 3rd party here are a few things that could be good for thought instead of opiate for the sheeple.
    1) Examine what the odds are your state will flip the election. If the leading candidate is projected to get 290+ electoral votes and you live in a state like Utah with 6 electoral votes your probably okay.
    2) Look at the actual data of the support base of 3rd party candidate. Green party probably pulls more from Democrats. Constitution more from Republicans. Libertarians about evenly.
    3) Think about how much more you really like one major candidate than the other and if that means more to you than the 3rd party candidate.
    4) See if you live in a remotely competitive state. Most of us in most years don’t.
    5) Consider how consequential a good turnout will be for the 3rd party and how much you would value it having a real shot at moving the needle in the future.
    But none of that matters you know. Because God forbid Hillary only wins by +4 instead of +5.

    1. Well if you are so pissed off then maybe you should use Black Market economics, and strategic voting yo overthrow the State.
      Just ask yourself.
      What has the State done for you lately.

    2. Honestly. Libertarian Heretic.
      You are an idiot. and an a very bad paid troll.
      F-

      1. Again not a Hillary shill. If it were a two way race only I would have voted Trump instead of Johnson.
        But what makes my assertion that Hillary will win handily so moronic? 538 puts her odds of winning at 87%. She wins 80-90% of nation wide polls and her present average on Real Clear politics is about +4%.
        Does that make me a troll or someone who sees the writing on the wall?
        BTW. I am a volunteer for a campaign. Johnson/Weld.

    3. She won’t break 50% of the popular vote. That’s something we can sling at the old slag if she wins. No fucking mandate. Because 50.00001 % means mandate to the fucking media these days when their team wins.

      1. When you fucking people start fire bombing each others homes. I will be that asshole who will be selling you gasoline. =D

      2. Actually, ANY win will be magically transformed into a mandate, with no acknowledgement whatsoever of the numbers who hate her but hated Trump more so they voted for her. Two minutes into her administration it’ll be all about how everybody voted for her because they love her and her agenda, so Congress better roll over and give her everything she wants, pronto.

      3. Yeah I don’t think they’ll care much about the mandate.

      4. “She won’t break 50% of the popular vote.”

        Even if she does, the amount of democrat defection could be a concern to the democrats.

        Gary Johnson should be able to double his 2012 total. Add in the Jill Stein votes, Bernie write ins, and others who stay home, and dems could lose 2,3 million votes that should be mostly in their pocket. Voting for Johnson may help defeat Trump (or possibly Clinton, but unlikely) while denying Clinton a mandate. There’s a lot of strategic value in voting GJ, depending on just how much you hate Clinton.

        Honestly, if no one wins electoral majority and the house picks Johnson, that would be the best case scenario. The democrats would have all sorts of incentive to work with NeverTrump, since a straight party vote means Trump wins.

        1. I seriously doubt the house would select Johnson. He’s not a neocon.

      5. “Because 50.00001 % means mandate to the fucking media these days when their team wins.”

        But if the other team wins it’s NOT a mandate even if the vote was 99.9%.

        There would simply be lots of sour grapes/ranting about an angry illogical electorate voting against their own interests (and liberals are always superior judges of what everyone else’s interests are than those people are themselves).

  22. If one of the two major parties wants my vote they will have to earn it through policies of limited government, non-interventionalism, ending the wars on the Constitution and the American people (WOD, WOT, etc), respecting the Bill of Rights, etc, etc. Otherwise they (and and their media sycophants) can eat a dick.

  23. Well, I’m impressed that Mr. Hiaasen is strongly opposed to unnecessary wars. And the very premise of his argument is that we should refrain from voting third party and vote for the major party candidate less likely to get us into unnecessary wars. So, of the two major party candidates which would that be? One has signed off as a supporter of every war in the last twenty years as well as pushing for some we haven’t fought. The other at least pays lip service opposing perpetual war and has suggested that other countries need to take up more responsibility for their own defense.

    Gee, thanks for the advice Mr. Hiaasen. You’ve made a great case for The Donald.

  24. RE: “Don’t Vote for Gary Johnson Because Ralph Nader Stole 2000 Election”

    FORMER COPY-EDITOR says:

    The sentence quoted above should have a comma after the word “Johnson”. Without the comma, it means: don’t let the stolen Y2K election be your reason for voting for Johnson, but you may vote for Johnson for some other reason.

    1. Without the comma, you can still read it both ways. The Jacket took a PhD in English. You can trust The Jacket. I don’t know what Gillespie majored in, though. Probably statistical mechanics.

  25. I voted for Alph Nader, post-cat incident.

  26. Hmm. Was voting our original positive right?

  27. Never heard of Hiaasen before today, and it’s clear that I have nothing at all to gain by knowing who he is.

    -jcr

  28. If no one gets a majority, the election shouldn’t be over yet.

    It’s weird that no one ever points this out.

    In Utah this year, someone is probably going to get 30% of the popular vote, and 100% of the electoral votes.

  29. If Al Gore had invaded Iraq it would have been okay. Wars started by good progressive Democrats are always smart and good and compassionate. /progderp

    1. Which, of course, means nearly all the wars over the last one hundred years or so. Funny how they seldom mention that.

  30. Novelist Carl Hiaasen is so worked up over Hillary Clinton losing he mistook a parody for straight news.

    Wasn’t Reason’s very own Shikha “Dipshit Scumbagetta” Dalmia so worked up over Trump winning that she did the exact same thing just a few days ago?

  31. How does Hiaasen explain 1964, when Americans did exactly what Hiaasen wants them to do now: not only avoid third-party candidates, but also vote for the wise, sober-minded, peace-loving Democrat over the supposedly dangerous, supposedly-unfit GOP “warmonger?” The result was the peace-loving Democrat bringing us into a war that killed ten times as many Americans as Iraq, based on a lie so blatant that it makes Saddam’s WMD look like a proven fact by comparison.

    1. Hush! You aren’t supposed to mention that or even remember it.

  32. It’s amazing to me that my vote is a “wasted” if I don’t vote major party. Hmm. There seems to be a consensus outlining this and it begins to make sense. Fear. Fear that a 3rd party candidate can do what major party candidates can’t or won’t. Well, I’m not stuck with only 2 choices. 3rd party candidates have a lot to stay and I want to hear what that is.

    1. If Gary Johnson had run as a Republican and kept all of his same policy positions, would you still support him, or would he have become part of the evil duopoly?

      People run as a D or an R because those are the only two labels that can possibly be attached to the actual winner. There is a reason all third-party candidates, this year and every other election year, are nutcases.

  33. “Me, for instance: I’m not “flipping off the establishment” by voting for Johnson. I’m actively pulling the lever for the candidate who comes closest to expressing my politics”.

    Same. The proverbial flip-off is just the icing on the cake.

  34. RE: Obligatory “Don’t Vote for Gary Johnson Because Ralph Nader Stole 2000 Election” Warning…
    Novelist Carl Hiaasen is so worked up over Hillary Clinton losing he mistook a parody for straight news.

    Comrade Hiaasen is correct.
    One should vote for Heil Hitlary.
    Many times and in many places if we are to achieve the proletariat paradise we all want so much.
    If not, you can always vote for Trump the Grump if you like fascism.
    But never, under any circumstance should one vote for Johnson/Weld. Those two bastards believe in freedom, economic liberty and having The State leaving you alone.
    How sick is that?

  35. The whole point of voting Libertarian is that we can’t possibly LOSE! We are voting to repeal prohibition, get the communist manifesto out of the Constitution and enforce the individual rights of everyone–even pregnant women!
    Bookies using actuarial math bet their own money 6 to 1 that The Antichoice will LOSE (not elect its gross candidate) and 4 to 1 that the Pro-choice looters will win (lose non-reproductive rights, and elect a Grrrl).
    There is a huge surplus of Democrat probability, and no real danger of hordes of Dems defecting and “letting” the Go-Pee keep bullying girls. The GO-Pee is pushing the same greedy superstitious prohibitionism that caused its morons to lose, and if History is any guide, will continue to defend the 1928 Prohibition Platform until dissolved and replaced. Bigots have several antiabortion parties, and fiscal conservatives (if there is such a thing), can vote Libertarian.

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  38. You could blame Nader voters for Bush 2000. You could blame Gore for running a horrible campaign. You could blame six or seven other fringe candidates who earned more than 537 votes (or, I suppose, 1,074 to split between Bush and Gore).

    I blame marijuana prohibition.

    In Florida, possession of 21 grams of marijuana (3/4 oz) is a felony.

    Black people are disproportionately arrested, charged, tried, and sentenced for crimes, particularly drugs, like 3.6x more likely than Whites.

    In Florida, a felony means the virtual lifetime loss of voting rights.

    Black people overwhelmingly vote for Democrats, like about 90%

    In Florida, felony disenfranchisement has affected almost a half-million voting-age Blacks. Over one-out-of-five!

    It was fewer in 2000; just about 18% of Blacks disenfranchised and a lower overall total. And not all the hundreds of thousands of 90%-Democratic voters were busted for just weed. And even the ones busted for weed felonies could be the ones who had 21 grams to the ones who had 21,000 pounds. And even if they could vote, dedicated voters only show up 60% of the time and guys moving felony amounts of weed probably show up far less often to vote.

    But I’m betting that even raising Florida’s presumptive 21 gram felony threshold to neighboring Georgia’s 28.5 gram threshold would’ve saved the voting rights of at least 537 Black voters who supported Al Gore.

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