Star Trek

Hollywood Takes on Fan Fiction

A Star Trek lover's new film is making the studios unhappy.

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Writer-Producer Alec Peters sits in a captain's chair on the unfinished set of his Star Trek fan film Axanar.

Since its launch in 1966, Star Trek has inspired creativity among its fans. Besides the soon-to-be six live-action television series and 13 feature films that make up the official canon, outsiders have invested time and treasure to produce myriad unofficial creations.

Early on it was mostly short stories, comic books, and art. But those outlets soon evolved into fan-made film and video productions. In 1974 a carpet layer from Michigan spent $2,000 to build a replica of the Starship Enterprise bridge and made Paragon's Paragon, one of the first serious Star Trek fan movies. In 1985, a fan convinced George Takei, who played Sulu on the original series, to reprise the role in Yorktown: A Time to Heal. In subsequent years, putting original cast members in fan productions became increasingly common, with Walter Koenig (Chekov) and Nichelle Nichols (Uhura) starring in the feature-length Star Trek: Of Gods and Men in 2007.

For decades these efforts were largely welcome. "It is now a source of great joy for me to see [fans'] view of Star Trek," wrote creator Gene Roddenberry in the foreword to Star Trek: The New Voyages, a compilation of fan-written stories. "I want to thank these writers, congratulate them on their efforts, and wish them good fortune on these and further of their voyages into other times and dimensions." Paramount and CBS, the Star Trek rights holders, took a hands-off approach so long as the fans' products didn't portray the franchise in a negative or obscene light.

That all changed with Prelude to Axanar, a professionally shot, produced, and acted short fan film that received almost 2.5 million views on YouTube. That success allowed writer/producer Alec Peters to raise more than $1 million through crowdfunding sites Kickstarter and Indiegogo to move forward with a feature film. He snagged Richard Hatch, who played Captain Apollo in the original Battlestar Galactica, to be his antagonist, and Takei plugged the project on social media.

Suddenly, Axanar looked less like fan fiction and more like competition. CBS and Paramount sprung into action, alleging copyright infringement and demanding an immediate stop to production.

Peters and his team claim that Axanar is covered by the fair use doctrine, which allows for incorporation of copyrighted work when that use is "transformative." But lawyer Dean Cheley—whose firm has made fair use claims against such powerful forces as Disney and Yoko Ono—says it's "unlikely" that fan films like Axanar fall within the doctrine's protections. Nonetheless, he adds that "while legally I believe that CBS may have a legitimate claim on its hands, I don't think it's in their best interests to pursue it. You don't want to police this sort of fanzine to such extent that you're disenfranchising your audience."

Battlestar Galactica veteran Hatch agrees. "Fan films can bring us stories that the studios aren't interested in doing, explore characters that the studios don't put a lot of energy on, and in a sense flesh out the world and build even more interest," he says. "So that when the movies from the studios come out, it actually generates more money, more fan interest, and the fan community is enlarged as a result of these really quality fan films."

With the lawsuit pending, production on Axanar has ground to a halt for now. But Peters and his team think technology and history are on their side. After all, in the wise words of Spock, "Change is the essential process of all existence."

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  1. It’s short-sighted stuff like this that makes me think Marxists are right, that property destroys the soul. At least the way some people treat property, greedy grasping people who can’t see anything but the $$$ value of things. Why not let the pond get bigger even while your relative portion shrinks? Why do you insist that only you have a right to the pond and everyone else must pay to partake? If the creator of the original series thinks it’s great, what gives you the right to say otherwise?

    But that’s just gut reaction to idiots. What I really think is it shows everything that is wrong with so-called intellectual property. How can you possibly judge who owns an idea? It’s not like you built a building or car or theme park, and someone wants to paint the windows or reshape a fener or change the topography or rides.

    Stupid short-sighted fucks.

    1. Of course, the option that produces the most for the consumer with the least amount of Force necessary should be the preferred social and cultural construction. For every sad sack who comes up with an idea that should be rewarded but gets their creation commandeered by established producers, there’s a protected interest ready to crush anybody who comes within a country mile of a similar idea (cough Harlan Ellison cough cough). It’s the proof that government Force and sanction is a blunt instrument at best, inexact and can (and likely will) produce outcomes opposite of what’s intended. Sort of the cornerstone to the Jeffersonian idea that revolution is necessary every so often. What seems fundamentally fair at the start will be perverted and create harm but still be cloaked in the original Virtue.

      Completely unrelated, down with the Carbon Tax.

      1. I’m making over $16k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life…Go to this web site and click tech tab to start your work… http://tinyurl.com/j4onneg

      2. GayJay stopped publicly supporting his carbon tax.

        1. Eh, his ‘views have evolved’ or ‘that’s what I have been saying from the beginning’ – pick whichever presidential excuse for changing their mind that you prefer.

    2. Ultimately the ‘stupid short-sighted’ fucks that are screwing people over are the politicians who gave in to lobbying efforts by the studios to increase copyright terms.

      From a system initially designed to help increase the amount of IP produced by guaranteeing that creators could get a taste of the value they’ve created – and only a small one, its estimated that most entrepreneurs capture less than 3% of the value they create – to one that is designed to calm the fears of studio heads that they, and they alone, are milking a franchise for all its worth.

      Go back to a seven year rule. Nobody’s stopping you from *adding* to that IP and so extending part or all of that term, but if all you’re doing is reissuing the same shit on a different disk (looking at you GEORGE FUCKING LUCAS) for seven years then its time to let the public at it.

    3. The problem isn’t “property”. The problem is a government grant of monopoly, which is what “IP” actually is.

      CBS and Paramount in this case, are no different than the salt monopolists that Ghanaian battled in the 30s.

      1. The salt monopolists were all Jooz?

    4. The problem isn’t “property”. The problem is a government grant of monopoly, which is what “IP” actually is.

      CBS and Paramount in this case, are no different than the salt monopolists that Ghanaian battled in the 30s.

    5. The fuck is a “soul”, brah?

    6. My Co-Worker’s step-sister made $14285 the previous week. She gets paid on the laptop and moved in a $557000 condo. All she did was get blessed and apply the guide leaked on this web site. Browse this site….
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  2. Stuff like this is, I think, better handled by trademarks than copyright law. If people want to make fanfic, go ahead, but to what extent should they be able to profit from it?

    Instead, we get Disney extending copyright every time Steamboat Itchy is about to enter the public domain.

    1. The thing here is, this whole Axanar thing? Non-profit.

      ‘Damnatus’ the 40K fan-movie was nixed originally due to copyright issues in Germany (apparently letting the movie be made could potentially lose GW the copyright in Germany) but was saved because GW decided to not be dicks (a rare, raaaaaaaare, move for a company that thinks it owns the copyright on ‘Space Marines’) and offered a no-fee license option.

      Which is something Paramount could do here. Not defending your IP could see you lose control over it. Not defending it could see people doing things with it (even if not-for-profit) that would tarnish the IP. A cheap licensing agreement could fix that for the cost of a couple hours of work by the in-house attorney.

      1. This right here, for a short term fix.

        W hacking copyright back to a much shorter term is the longterm fix, of course.

      2. Your second paragraph says what I was going to say, Agammamon.

    2. Despite the litigious climate, SIV is moving forward with his fan fic sequel to Chicken Little, made with real gamecock chickens. Guess what the working title is.

      1. Kentucky Fried Movie?

      2. Chicken Little II: The Cockening?

  3. The are just pissed that someone might succeed in making a decent movie instead of the crap they have been producing lately.

    1. Yeah, I’m sure they’re weeping into their piles of million dollar bills the last few movies have made them.

      1. A lot of people would reflexively go to see a Star Trek movie even if it were worse than Plan Nine from Outer Space.

        1. I sat through the first reboot (on cable, thank god). They’re not fooling me again.

  4. Wait, so does this mean the homoerotic reimagining of Harry Potter I’m, I mean a friend of mine is filming is going to be in trouble?

    1. Wand away!

    2. Hairy Potter and the Philosopher’s Bone?

      1. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secretions

        1. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Warty Hugeman

          1. Harry Potter and the Urination of Fire.
            Harry Potter and the Deathly Virus.

            1. I had all of this planned out years ago.

              Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Bone
              Harry Potter and the Chamber of BDSM
              Harry Potter and the Masseuse from Asia
              Harry Potter and the Gobler’s Delight
              Harry Potter and the Order of the Penis
              Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Interracial 3-Way
              Harry Potter and the MILFy Cameltoes

              They practically wrote themselves.

              1. Harry Potter and the Sex Work Adventure.
                Harry Potter and the Erotic Monk.
                Harry Potter and the Smelly Taint.

                and an oldie

                Harry Potter and the Spit-Roast of Regret.

    3. Harry Potter and the 55 Gallon Drums of Destiny?

    4. What do you mean, “reimagining”?

      1. Hey, the Potter movies weren’t all about homoeroticism! There was also a middle-aged ghost trying to fuck junior-high Harry in the bathtub!

        1. Hairy Potter and the Deathly Swallows

          1. American or European?

  5. I certainly think copyright terms are too long, but while copyright is in force it should be respected.

    Although…I would hope that CBS & Paramount would simply be satisfied to wet their beak a little…get some of the proceeds of the film in exchange for letting it go forward.

    I think Star Trek is called a “franchise”…why not make it a literal franchise by allowing franchisees (fans) to pay a reasonable fee to make (non-porn, non-insulting) fan fiction?

    1. And that would apply only to the stuff that might make a profit…there’s no reason to charge fees to the people making the stuff that *doesn’t* make a profit.

      1. Come on, they’re corporations, aren’t they supposed to co-opt people?

        1. Are you talking to yourself Eddie?

          1. Does the pope shit in the woods?

    2. . . . but while copyright is in force it should be respected.

      Why? This is basically saying ‘the law’s the law and you should obey they law because its the law’. If its a bad law then it deserves no respect.

      I’m not a ‘IP is not property’ type, but I recognize that its certainly not possible to prevent others from just copying your idea and the usefulness of copyright (a creation of government) is that, assuming you’re at the proper point on the curve (its like the Laffer Curve, too far to the left or right and you create an environment where the incentives to produce IP are minimized), you get more IP than with no copyright.

      Too much copyright is probably (in my non-expert opinion) *worse* than no copyright at all.

      1. IP is not (physical) property, so why should we reason about it as if it is?

    3. There are no proceeds here. Pretty much all fan-films are on a non-profit basis. They only take in as much as they need to do the movie (or pretty close). Its not sold afterwards.

      This is pretty standard among fan projects across a wide-range of media, from movies to computer games. You do this stuff for the love of the IP and as a hobby – and with the understanding that any attempt to *profit* from it both invites attention from the IP holder (who can no longer afford to benevolently look the other way) and removes any ‘fair-use’ defense you might try.

      1. They only take in as much as they need to do the movie (or pretty close).

        Then they can take in a little more to pay for licensing the IP….

        1. Except the studio has set a licensing fee with the assumption that the licensee is making a big budget production and will make real movie money and is not a fan-made work that is one step above a hobby.

          1. Then they should convince the studio to give them a reduced fee based on the argument Mr. Hatch made about fanfic increasing the studio’s own profits.

    4. Although…I would hope that CBS & Paramount would simply be satisfied to wet their beak a little…get some of the proceeds of the film in exchange for letting it go forward.

      There’s a process for this, called licensing. Usually it involves the copyright holder getting an upfront fee in addition to profit sharing.

      The Axanar producers don’t appear to have pursued a licensing agreement, they just wanted to take the IP for nothing.

      1. I know, how horrible. Somebody might copy someone else’s idea. Hope you haven’t appropriated any cultures recently.

        1. *Shiver* Oh god I just had an image of a horrible future where some kind of Department of Cultural Sensitivity applies copyright-esque law to the use of ‘foreign cultures’ in art and media.

          1. Don’t give them any ideas.

              1. At least if we had that here, we could stop Chicago from claiming that it sells “pizza”.

      2. There is no “taking”. Paramount still has everything they had before.

      3. There is no “taking”. Paramount still has everything they had before.

    5. Look at it this way, Eddie. If you have a car, and I take it from you, you no longer have a car. If you have an idea about how to build a better car, and I “steal” it from you, you still have it, and can still use your idea. Unless, of course, I get your idea copyrighted before you do. Then you can’t use your idea anymore, but only because of copyright law, not because I “stole” anything.

      1. That’s car example would be a patent, not a copyright.

        Copyright would be a story about a car, or a painting, or a song….

        IANAL. but I know that much.

        Kevin R

    6. The only fanfic worth doing involves porn, hookers, and adultery.

    7. I certainly think copyright terms are too long, but while copyright is in force it should be respected.

      Should drug laws be respected as well? Unjust laws deserve no respect.

  6. IIRC, the old copyright regime allowed a 14-year term that could be renewed once.

    So that would mean that by now TOS would be in the public domain. It was broadcast, according to Wikipedia, from 1966 to 1969, so add 28 years, and the most recent episode would be public domain by 1997.

    The new copyright regime, however, lasts much longer, and that’s why we’re talking about it now.

    It was Europeans who insisted on the obscenely long copyright term – and of course if a shorter term was instituted in the US the fans would still have to keep their movie out of Europe.

    1. US the fans would still have to keep their movie out of Europe.

      Not keep it out – simply not distribute it there.

      Internet does the rest.

    2. No. From 1909 to 1976, it was 28 years with 28-year renewal. Then it was changed to 75 years, or the life of the author plus 50 years.

      1. Then it was changed to 75 years, or the life of the author plus 50 years forever.

    3. It’s Disney. Basically every time “Steamboat Willie” gets close to the US copyright expiration date, Congress suddenly decides the length of the copyright term suddenly needs to be extended.

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  8. If you think this is bad, you should see George R.R. Martin’s response to fanfiction. Least CBS and Paramount waits until there’s a possibility of actual money involved, Martin goes after weird internet nerds who write their dumb Dani and Jon slashfics. And this is a guy who consistently ‘rips off’ history every chance he gets.

    Thought I guess he’s just lucky that the Houses of Lancaster and York aren’t around to sue him into oblivion.

    1. Now there’s a deluded fan base, the GRRM people.

      Especially when they attribute the things that make no sense in the Game of Thrones TV show to poor writing, while attributing the things that make no sense in A Song of Ice and Fire books to rich, textured conspiracies that GRRM will explain in upcoming books.

      1. Wait, there are GoT books too?

    2. I so hope he dies before finishing. Or just says “Fuck it. I’m rich. Martinis and shores from here ’til heart attack.”

  9. Suddenly, Axanar looked less like fan fiction and more like competition.

    Except it’s not competition. Have you ever looked at a sale flyer for, say, an appliance or furniture store, visited that store and also visited other appliance stores to check out all your options? That flyer sparked an interest that otherwise you might not have had. It’s unlikely science fiction consumers are going to view Axanar in lieu of CBS’ product. Quite the contrary. CBS and Paramount are idiots.

    1. There are people who will watch whatever garbage is put out that’s called Star Trek just to get their fix. CBS and Paramount intend to profit from that fact by releasing a garbage movie once every 3 years.

      Fanfic movies provide an alternative means for ST fans to get their fix. Problem.

      1. And this is a good reason to say ‘fuck you’ to them and ‘steal their IP’. If all you’re doing is using the protections given to you by the government the don’t be surprised when people have no problem with doing this.

        1. But if the govt didn’t protect copyright, they would not have invested what they did in the franchise.

          The more onerous copyright is for derivative works, the more money there is available for developing new ideas.

          1. Let’s call it the ‘Agammamon curve’, but there’s an optimal amount of copyright protection. Too much hurts development of derivative works as much as too little.

            And this is the internet age. The age where people produce shit (though its mostly shit) for the joy of creation. *More available money* is not really an incentive to develop new ideas here.

  10. Someone above suggested the problem might be capitalism. It might be more like crony capitalism. When the owners of the Star Trek franchise can’t compete, they want to use the coercive power of government to stifle competition.

    Copyright on this sort of thing made more sense back when there were three television networks, eight film studios, and no more than a few theater chains in each town. Back then, copyright was an effective way to stop that small number of players from stealing an artist’s or each other’s work.

    The same kind of thing happened with the surveillance state. The reason the government didn’t collect all of our communications in the past wasn’t really because of the Fourth Amendment. It was because doing so was technologically impossible and prohibitively expensive. Once it became easy and cheap to collect our communications, the Fourth Amendment became a secondary consideration.

    In the case of copyright law, the main factor keeping things the way they were wasn’t the law either. It was the cost of production and the limited means of distribution. Your copyright could only be violated by seven studios, three networks, and a handful of theater chains–it was easy to enforce. As technology made the cost of production plummet and opened up distribution to anyone, copyright became increasingly ineffective.

  11. Our rights are a natural outgrowth of our agency–and they’re as real as anything can be. The laws that protect our rights, however, have always been a fantasy that caves to real limitations in the physical world. My fellow libertarians understand this intuitively when it comes to things like the Drug War. The law against marijuana cultivation and distribution is a fantasy. In reality, cultivation and distribution continue despite the law. . . . just like state surveillance, copyright violation, etc., etc.

    Ultimately, the fantasy of the law is no substitute for being able to protect your own rights in the real world. Thank goodness for fantasies like the Second Amendment, but you can’t shoot an intruder with the Constitution.

    If enforcing copyright has become a bigger pain in the ass than it’s worth, then I don’t know what to say. Maybe artists and studios need to find a better way to protect their own rights. I’m not convinced a studio using the government to shut down a production because it uses stock characters that were created 50 years ago by someone who died 25 years ago is an excellent example of the government protecting someone’s rights.

    1. If you shoot black powder muskets, you can use your copy of the Constitution to make wadding.

      2nd amendment fans would rather do that with the gun “control laws.”

  12. How about a film with Bob Dylan and clowns?

    1. Grease Paint on the Tracks

      1. Sorry, the question was “film”, not “album”, thanks for playing.

    2. This one doesn’t have Bob Dylan, but it has Florence Henderson.

      And it’s been called, “The Citizen Kane of clown movies”.

      https://youtu.be/V7KOt3Hugd4

      1. There are more things in popular entertainment, Shultz,
        Than are dreamt of in my philosophy.

        And I can count on you to point them out.

        Thanks.

      2. I was dissapointed by the lack of Florence Henderson nudity.

        1. Is there any of that around? Asking for a friend.

    3. How many children must a clown scare to death, before he can say he is a clown?

      1. How many times must the creamy pies fly, before someone loses an eye?

      2. One. Its one of the final tasks a prospective clown must complete before his training is considered complete and he is advanced to the rank of initiate.

  13. Axanar is truly by the fans and for the fans.

    What really gets me about this is the duplicitous way that CBS and paramount have dealt with the issue. Giving permission the way one does to a pesky child asking to do something then seeing what they did and the fan reaction to something made on a shoestring budget, shitting themselves then revoking that permission through an attorney.

    No prior notice, no history of objecting and in person meetings giving the go ahead. No interest in even licensing the material. The studio produced JJ Trek series has been so bad from a start trek perspective that the fanbase is starved for something good, original but authentic to trek.

    1. They’re not just worried about this one production.

      They’re worried about the other hundred productions popping up after this one.

      And I think they are probably also worried that what makes outside productions awesome to superfans might be what makes it less than awesome to a general audience–and that might hurt the appeal of the franchise.

      Regardless, whether the production is ten times better than what they could come up with themselves or ten times worse, the competition isn’t likely to be good news for them.

      Why can’t you just go to a convention and buy officially licensed merch like you’re told?

      1. Or they could come up with their own original story of a spaceship crew and their adventures, rather than piggybacking it on a franchise that’s well-known due to 40 years of CBS and Paramount’s investments?

        1. Or, CBS could understand that all that investment would have been worth jack shit if the fans didn’t invest *their* time and money also.

        2. You mean the Star Trek episodes that aren’t derivatives of other people’s works.

          For instance:

          “This story shares similar elements to Anne Rice’s The Witching Hour; the first in The Lives of the Mayfair Witches trilogy, although the Star Trek writers claim not to have known this until after writing the episode. The character names Ned Quint and Jessel Howard are named for Peter Quint and Miss Jessel in Henry James’ The Turn of the Screw, a Gothic ghost story which was likely[original research?] the common source for both The Witching Hour and “Sub Rosa.”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Sub_Rosa_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

          1. Or the Star Trek episodes that aren’t derivatives of other Star Trek Episodes.

            Like TNG’s “The Naked Now’ or the whole of Star Trekkin’ to Darkness.

            1. Like the ST:VOY episode that’s a derivative of the ST:TNG episode that’s a derivative of the ST:TOS episode, that was a remake of a Twilight Zone story, that was an Edgar Allen Poe retelling of an ancient Greek legend.

        3. 5 posts in and I’m calling Tulpa.

          1. I called him Tulpa, below, first!

            But I’m sure you did so independently.

            Anyway, yeah, we might as well be talking to the wall because if that isn’t Tulpa, he might as well be, and he and Tulpa should go bowling.

            1. I saw that. You win.

              Hadn’t gotten that far yet.

  14. I watched Pence on Meet the Press. That guy is one slippery motherfucker. He scored repeatedly on Todd; not just escapes, but reversals. It was a blowout.

  15. OT:
    NYT discovers there’s no free lunch, opposes redistribution (when done by a commercial enterprise)

    “Drug coupons help the few at the expense of everyone”
    […]
    “People who need the EpiPens to protect themselves from life-threatening allergic reactions can use the coupon to get up to $300 off at the pharmacy counter if their insurance plan has a deductible or a co-payment.
    It is a good deal for those people. But these seemingly generous coupons may be making drug costs higher for everyone. New research suggests that co-payment coupons can actually increase total health care spending by encouraging patients to choose more expensive drugs when lower-priced substitutes are available. Those high costs can then boomerang back to patients in the form of higher insurance premiums.”

    Note that this was just discovered by “new research”. I think it was done in Vienna in the early part of the last century.

    1. I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the nyt article that applies this logic to rent control.

      1. And gov’t meddling in the medical market.

  16. Ok, if I can’t avoid another political conversation with a prog, I have my response to, “a vote for Johnson is a vote for trump cause Johnson has no chance”.

    I’ll just say,” fine, then I’ll vote for trump, and by your logic, so should all Johnson voters.”

    Though I assume the prog will blow his rape whistle and scream out “Trump voter!!!”

    1. I can’t find any libertarians anywhere who would vote for Hillary if they had to vote and it were between the two.

      Or, any that aren’t on Reason staff anyway.

      1. I can’t find any libertarians anywhere where I live, except for the new woman at my job who turns out to her engaged.

        1. Just whip out yer dong man. Ask her if her man’s got what you got.

          Make sure its only semi-hard though. Gotta keep it tasteful.

          1. What’s a ‘dong man’? Is that like an action figure? ‘Cause I totally don’t play with those or anything! Heh.

            1. I didn’t say Dong-man.

            2. What’s a ‘dong man’?

              A rejected Mega Man boss.

        2. One house on the way to work has a Johnson yard sign.

          1. That person has balls. If I remember right ur in jersey. That sign won’t last a week

            1. Catskill Mtns., NY.

              It’s been there for at least a month. The resident lives across from a nursing home, for what it’s worth.

        3. I’m not talking about where I live.

          I can’t find any libertarian anywhere that would vote for Hillary over Trump–anywhere on the internet–except for some people on the staff at Reason.

          1. Well she’s basically the antithesis of a libertarian.

          2. How did you conduct this search?

            1. I asked people, Tulpa!

              You got a reason why a libertarian should vote for Hillary?

              The only libertarian would could find online supporting Hillary last night did so saying that Hillary’s Presidency would be so bad, it might destroy people’s faith in government.

              1. I personally can’t come up with a reason why a libertarian would vote for Trump either.

                1. How about Hillary won’t sign any ObamaCare revision that doesn’t include single payer, but Trump will?

                  How about Hillary will choose Supreme Court justices specifically because they’re hostile to our Second Amendment rights, and Trump won’t?

                  How about Hillary accepted money from foreign governments while she was the Secretary of State, and, over the long term, the rule of law may depend on that sort of behavior being punished by the voters?

                  That’s three reasons why libertarians might prefer Trump to Hillary.

                  Now, I’m looking for someone else to go.

                  And “because Shikha Dalmia has TDS” doesn’t count.

                  Why should a libertarian, specifically, prefer Hillary Clinton to Trump?

                  1. How about Hillary won’t sign any ObamaCare revision that doesn’t include single payer, but Trump will?

                    Not worth putting a bat-shit crazy megalomaniac in office for.

                    How about Hillary will choose Supreme Court justices specifically because they’re hostile to our Second Amendment rights, and Trump won’t?

                    Not worth putting a bat-shit crazy megalomaniac in office for.

                    How about Hillary accepted money from foreign governments while she was the Secretary of State, and, over the long term, the rule of law may depend on that sort of behavior being punished by the voters?

                    Not worth putting a bat-shit crazy megalomaniac in office for.

                    You voting for Trump, Ken?

                    ———-

                    Question…for anyone who gives a shit and is planning on voting for Team R or D.

                    Just how bad would the options have to be before you won’t vote the lesser of two evils? I mean, if it were between Hitler and Stalin, would you pull the good ole Team lever? Because that analogy isn’t too far off base. You’re choosing between pure evil and the village idiot.

                    1. “Not worth putting a bat-shit crazy megalomaniac in office for.”

                      Nationalizing the healthcare system isn’t worth putting Trump in office?

                      You are a capitalist, right? And you think capitalism is better than socialism?

                      Our Second Amendment rights aren’t worth putting Trump in office?

                      What flavor or Kool-Aid did you drink, anyway?

                      Hell, Trump even condemns the Iraq War as a stupid mistake. He’s got Hillary beat on that, too.

                      I can be persuaded with logic. I already understand the libertarian logic of voting for Johnson. I already understand the libertarian logic of not voting at all. I understand the libertarian argument for voting for Trump rather than Johnson (I just spelled it out).

                      I don’t understand the libertarian argument for voting for Hillary. I’m not sure there is one. I’m putting out an open invitation. If anybody who thinks libertarians should vote or Hillary, I’d love to hear it. The only thing I heard from Reason staff was that Trump was worse than Hillary for some reason–reasons that I haven’t seen spelled out. If you’re one of those people, spell it out.

                      Otherwise, for goodness’ sake, even if I vote for Johnson or don’t vote, I sure hope Hillary loses.

                    2. Nationalizing the healthcare system isn’t worth putting Trump in office?

                      Absolutely not.

                      You are a capitalist, right? And you think capitalism is better than socialism?

                      Certainly.

                      Our Second Amendment rights aren’t worth putting Trump in office?

                      Certainly not.

                      And no one is taking my 2A rights regardless of who is in office.

                      Ken, the man is an unstable nutjob who I wouldn’t trust to watch my dogs, let alone with the power to start wars. The fact that he’s better than Clinton on a few specific issues has NOTHING to do with it. Voting for that man is like asking a retard to babysit your kids. He is emotionally, intellectually and wrt experience utterly unqualified for the job.

                      ———————-

                      The only thing I heard from Reason staff was that Trump was worse than Hillary for some reason

                      No, you haven’t. I only read maybe 5-10% of the articles here, but I’d be willing to guess you can’t show me one Reason contributor who has claimed that Trump is worse than Clinton or that they would, or were encouraging others to, vote for Clinton. Let alone claiming that it is some majority position among contributors or Reason’s official position.

                    3. “Nationalizing the healthcare system isn’t worth putting Trump in office?”

                      Absolutely not.

                      This is retarded.

                    4. “Nationalizing the healthcare system isn’t worth putting Trump in office?”

                      Absolutely not.”

                      This is indefensibly retarded.

                    5. No, Ken, if you are going to vote for Donald Trump, a man not qualified to wipe his own ass, because you think he won’t nationalize healthcare, then you are indefensibly retarded.

                    6. Shikia Dahlmia?

                      Actually quite a few of the contributors here have written articles holding the position that Trump’s crudeness and willingness to say *anything* are sufficient to ‘in a sane world’ disqualify him from the Presidency.

                      They really haven’t been saying that the stuff Clinton’s done is sufficient to disqualify her – even in the articles pointing out how bad what she’s done is.

                    7. Not worth putting a bat-shit crazy megalomaniac in office for.

                      Wait, I’m confused, are we talking about Trump or Clinton?

                      Because “I want control every aspect of your life that people ask me about and pick fights with Russians” doesn’t scream ‘sane’ or ‘humble’.

                    8. are we talking about Trump or Clinton

                      Does it matter?

                    9. I’m voting for neither but I can give you one reason to pick Trump over Clinton. Accountability. The media will scrutinize everything Trump does under a microscope. They will actively work for Hillary as propaganda machines. Not enough for me to vote for Trump but that is a valid reason to prefer one over the other.

                    10. This plus supreme Court nominations make trump easily the lesser evil.

                    11. I’m referring to accountability. Hillary will get a free pass.

      2. But it’s not between two, so go vote in the alternate universe where it is.

  17. What’s Star Trek? Is it like Star Wars?

    1. They both suck now, so… yes.

    2. Nowdays? Its exactly like Star Wars.

    3. From Hell’s heart, the Force stabs at thee.

      1. Da starship! Da starship!

  18. I’ve tried finding some of this fanfic I keep hearing about but all I keep finding is crap that ain’t got nothing about fans in it at all. I’ve always been partial to the old Hunter Originals, the low throb of the elegant black-iron motor housing, the glistening oiling cup poking out from above, that long firm downrod, those 52″ peek-a-boo lattice blades lazily twirling, rawwwwr! But sadly, no fanfic can I find.

    1. I’ve always been partial to the old Hunter Originals

      Me too.

      1. Not the Hunter I was expecting with this convo starting out about slash/fic.

  19. Use the force, Axanar! These are not the copyright violators you are looking for. There is nothing to see here. Move along.

  20. When in doubt, go for baseless speculation dressed up as pop psychology.

    Some folklorists align the current clown scare with other stories of “phantom attackers,” like the Phantom Slasher of Taipei from the 1950s or the Mad Gasser of Mattoon, Ill., from 1944. The latter most likely played on World War II-era fears of gas and wartime instability; in general, urban legends tend to spread in times of anxiety, when there are low levels of trust in official institutions and sources of information. Our current moment certainly qualifies.

    But when did clowns become scary? It turns out that even asking that question is evidence of a short cultural memory. Dark clowns go back centuries before Stephen King. As Benjamin Radford, author of the recent book “Bad Clowns,” points out, “It’s misleading to ask when clowns turned bad, for they were never really good.”

    ——–

    But what about the young people impersonating the phantoms? At a time when so many are cut off from power and opportunity, perhaps it’s no surprise that they’re drawn to the garb of a scary outsider who’s allowed to tell the truth. That’s a potent role ? and it means that the phantom clowns haunting the parking lots and apartment complexes of America aren’t going away anytime soon.

    Disaffected, powerless outsiders? Trump voters, one and all.

    1. Deplorable clowns

  21. What can be done to stop the Great Clown Panic?

    Save us, Hillary! Get those testosterone-crazed misfits into Head Start.

    1. Who’s going to save us from those clowns over on Capitol Hill?

  22. I don’t contribute any cash so I don’t matter, but the lack of wiki leaks coverage as compared to grope gate coverage is being duly noted. Even some of my Democrat friends are more upset about some of the reveals than reason, such as the “needy latinos” comment and the ripping of Christians (yes, there are plenty of Christian Hispanic Democrats)

    1. Watpdim

    2. When one candidate from one party is horrible and unlikable, it just gives the other party more license to run a horrible, unlikable candidate, too.

      This is how democracy is just a race to the bottom.

  23. Battlestar Galactica veteran Hatch agrees. “Fan films can bring us stories that the studios aren’t interested in doing, explore characters that the studios don’t put a lot of energy on, and in a sense flesh out the world and build even more interest,” he says. “So that when the movies from the studios come out, it actually generates more money, more fan interest, and the fan community is enlarged as a result of these really quality fan films.”

    Possibly — that’s why copyright holders have the option to license derivative works. The Axanar producers are free to make this exact pitch to Paramount and CBS, and see if they agree that it’s in their best interest.

    What they shouldn’t do is just go out and steal IP without permission.

    1. Except nobody’s stolen anything. Are you paid by Paramount or the RIAA to post this stuff?

      Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use Fair Use

      Copyright is a limited license *granted by government* to encourage IP production. If all Paramount’s doing is sitting on their IP because copyright prevents anyone else from doing work with that IP without their permission the the copyright is actually *reducing* the production of IP and should -without even the slightest pang of conscience – simply be ignored.

      1. What? Did you not see that CBS is making a ST series soon? And Paramount is making a new ST movie? And ST video games are coming out every year? They’re not sitting on their copyright.

        I do agree that the copyright (and even moreso patent) laws need to be modified to align with the constitutional purpose. However, there’s nothing here that is contrary to the purpose.

        Did the Axanar producers even attempt to get a license agreement for their production?

        1. Then if they’re out producing shit people want Axanar is not a threat to them. Its more IP. The reason they got the copyright in the first place.

          1. Dude, it’s Tulpa. Berate it as such.

            1. Fair use? For criticism, yes. For parody yes.

              What happens if the fan-films or fan-fiction don’t get even get a pro forma objection from the copyright holders? The IP can be adjudicated as abandoned, if I’m not mistaken.

            2. You guys have some serious tulpa derangement syndrome

  24. Atlanta at Seahawks this afternoon and the Falcons are getting 6, 6-and-a-half points? Hmmmm…..I’m a Seahawks fan living in the Atlanta area and I’m thinking that’s a bet to pick up on. As terrible as Atlanta’s been about getting you thinking that they might not suck just to show you just how stupid you are for getting your hopes up, they really do look like they’re starting to hit on all eight cylinders. Ryan’s looking less like a straight stong-arm pocket passer and more like a multi-option QB and the inside game they got and with the no-huddle offense they like to use the noise shouldn’t be as big a factor – plus the fact that their head coach is quite familiar with Seattle’s D – the ‘Hawks might be in for a rough day. Give them a 3 point home-field advantage but otherwise this ought to be a pick ’em.

    1. I’ve made the mistake of going against sea are home and I’ll never do it again.

    2. The falcons are looking scary good this year.

  25. Reason doesn’t care about this latest Obama outrage?

    “We are going to have to rebuild within this wild-wild-west-of-information flow some sort of curating function that people agree to,” Obama said at an innovation conference in Pittsburgh.

    “There has to be, I think, some sort of way in which we can sort through information that passes some basic truthiness tests and those that we have to discard, because they just don’t have any basis in anything that’s actually happening in the world,” Obama added.

    “The answer is obviously not censorship, but it’s creating places where people can say ‘this is reliable’ and I’m still able to argue safely about facts and what we should do about it.”

    1. It’s all Bush’s fault.

    2. The answer is obviously not censorship

      Obviously.

    3. Like . . . Wikipedia? Or Politifact? Snopes?

      There’s a bajillion places that do that shit already – to a greater or lesser degree. I imagine he wants a blue-ribbon panel to study the feasibility of implementing a new government agency to vet the suitability of each of these ‘fact-checker’ sites and give them a government imprimatur.

      As prelude to a government licensing scheme of course.

      1. Those are after the fact, and that’s too late. We need to have installed in every newsroom some sort of check on stories before they go out to give the public false narratives.

        1. The answer is cleary to nationalize all media.

      2. What he wants is an agency that agrees with everything he says and calls everyone else liars.

        A Ministry of Truth.

        Is this really so hard?

    4. “””There has to be, I think, some sort of way in which we can sort through information that passes some basic truthiness tests and those that we have to discard,”””

      Ministry of Goodthink has a nice ring to it

    5. Maybe the govt should make its own newspaper called Truth, so everyone knows it’s reliable.

      1. They wouldn’t be able to print 95% of what Obama says, unfortunately.

      2. I tried to make a Pravda joke but the squirrels weren’t having any Cyrillic 🙁

    6. “”what we should do about it.”””

      “We” of course being govt, and “not doing anything” not being any acceptable option.

    7. “”The answer is obviously not censorship, but it’s creating places where people can say ‘this is reliable…”

      If you like your truth…

      The irony! It burns.

    8. Maybe they could create this place… where they teach people to think… and I don’t mean random bullshit, but actually how to use logic and reason… and then they could digest information and form thoughtful, analytical… conclusions, based on evidence, rather than… emotions.

      We could maybe create some agencies that build these places… call them… schools, Or something. Like, “public schools”, so that everyone can learn how to weigh information and become smarter. And it will be free for everyone.

      Yeah, that’s the ticket. See? Solutions aren’t so hard when you just get out of the way of progress.

  26. Sunday Randomness

    1. I went to the Santa Cruz Mystery Spot yesterday. After seeing water seemingly flow uphill and watching people grow and shrink, I went hunting for the science behind the illusion. I found that the illusions are basically the same as the Ames Room. The video in the wiki article shows it really well.

    It’s really hard to see things right if you can’t see the horizon.

    All cockpits carry an “artificial horizon,” essentially a leveler, that pilots use when the real horizon is not visible. It is the only clue to the horizon when the cockpit is tilted — as the chair was tilted in the laboratory. Pilots are trained to ignore the visual context of the cockpit and fasten their eyes on the leveler.

    Unfortunately, they don’t always follow that rule, said Prinzmetal, adding that planes have crashed because the pilot thought he was flying level when actually he was at an angle.

    That is said to have happened in one story circulating through government aeronautic circles. According to the tale, the last words heard on the tape retrieved from a crashed airliner was the navigator shouting, “Look at your artificial horizon!” and the pilot responding, “I can’t. It’s broken!”

    1. Interesting – if you watch the video in the link you can see how its done by watching the way the man walks. There’s a pretty steep gradient from one side of the room to the other and it shows in how he moves as he walks across the room.

      Its magnified because its such a small area – its be more subtle in a larger setup.

      1. Video wouldn’t play for me. Pretty cool though.

    2. Back when I was in high school (12 yrs ago), it was a popular thing in San Jose for everyone to have the mystery spot bumper stickers on their car 😛

  27. What people in the entertainment industry call “our intellectual property” is what the rest of us call “our culture”. If the current copyright regime had been in place a the beginning of the US, you would need a license from Coca-Cola to dress up as Santa Claus.

    1. No, you’d need one from Clement Moore. Coke would have been paying him, likely.

      Except, St Nicholas was public domain long before Moore, and just like you can write your own stories and make your own films about Collodi’s Pinocchio, which dates to 1883 Snow White, and all the other public domain tales Disney did versions of, you can kit out Kris Kringle some other way than the Coke version. Just don’t copy the images and plot changes somebody else. You’ll get away with that in a parody, though.

  28. OT: I just received this text. I’m not Mary. Other people getting these?

    “Hi Mary, I’m Linneh with Color Of Change PAC. Trump illegally prevented Black people moving into his buildings. Will you vote against him?”

    1. Trump should sue them.

    2. Funny how the papers keep assuring me Clinton has a 95% chance of victory… but her campaign keeps acting like it’s a v. close contest

      1. Hillary’s pollin margin of victory is less than the percentage of GayJay voters who have defected over (back?) to her. These people are not very reliable voters for many reasons other than their chronic marijuana intoxication.

    3. Color of change PAC?

      Once we overturn Citizens United, we’ll put a stop to that nonsense.

      Money isn’t email.

  29. Sunday Randomness

    Things you didn’t learn in history class: John Paul Jones, early US navy hero, commanded a ship for the Russian navy later in his career. He was relieved of command for allegations that he raped a 12 year old. His defense was that yes, he paid her for sex, but he did not rape her.

    Jones, however, admitted to prosecutors that he had “often frolicked” with the girl “for a small cash payment,” only denying that he had deprived her of her virginity.

    I ate some fried larva I bought at the Mystery Spot gift shop. It’s amazing how nutritious it is. It’s about 50% protein, 10% carbs, and 30% fat by mass. Tastes good too- sort of like cashews.

    Also saw the big whale skeleton in Santa Cruz.

    1. What type of larva was it?

      1. I don’t know. The ingredients just said “larva”.

        Larvets Original Worm Snax

        1. They’re the Eco-Logical alternative

          1. Based on the pics, I’m pretty sure they were mealworms. And they did sort of taste like a combo of shrimp and bacon.

            1. Sounds good!

            2. Wow, hmmm… I’d try it.

    2. “I have not yet begun to frolick!”

    3. I knew Jones served under Catherine II, but I didn’t know about the alleged rape.

      Interesting Hollywood history: In the 1959 movie John Paul Jones, the closing scenes have Ben Franklin (Charles Coburn) visiting Jones (Robert Stack) on his deathbed in Paris. In real life, Franklin had been dead for a few years.

  30. Suddenly, Axanar looked less like fan fiction and more like competition. CBS and Paramount sprung into action, alleging copyright infringement and demanding an immediate stop to production.

    I suddenly had a mental image of a top-hatted tycoon stepping on a small child’s hand to prevent him from picking a nickel up off the sidewalk.

    1. Game, set, match? https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/2783
      Should be fun anyways to match the FARA database against the FEC contributions to the Clinton campaign.

      1. I wonder what kind of list clicking that will put you on.

        1. Like you’re not on one already?

          1. In NY, for sure.

  31. Funny how the papers keep assuring me Clinton has a 95% chance of victory… but her campaign keeps acting like it’s a v. close contest

    On Stephanopopulis’ (sp? who cares?) show, they said the Hillary emails were a great big nothing, because everybody knows how politicians are.

    I could be wrong, but I think that just could might possibly be EXACTLY what motivates Trump voters.

    1. And apparently for the rest of the month, Hillary has exactly one public appearance scheduled: the third debate. Severe health issues, or the campaign knowing that the more the public sees her, the less they like her? Or both?

      1. And yet this unhealthy, unlikable candidate, whose party should be “due” for a loss, is still going to beat the Master Persuader. Even Dilbert seems to realize this now.

        1. Maybe. We shall see.

      2. Probably the former. If anyone in the Hillary campaign knew or cared about how she’s perceived by the public, her Beltway Brahmin routine would have been dropped long ago.

      3. She is trying to run out the clock. She knows she doesn’t have to do anything. Especially with the press willing to run interference.

        1. Yep, if Trump weren’t dumb enough to quit digging after he’s in up to his eyeballs, the press would still put the thumb on the scale.
          But reply on Trump; no one is gonna take that shovel from him! No, sir! That hole can get a lot deeper…

          1. But *rely* on Trump…

        2. The Trump rape allegations have run their course (unless they have another tape), while Wikileaks is here to stay until election day.

  32. “And I promise to give you a whole bunch of free stuff!”
    “Yaaaay!”
    http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine

    1. Abortions for some; miniature American flags for others.

  33. Democratic…er domestic terrorism. Heffalumps NC office fire-bombed.

    http://www.charlotteobserver.c…..27627.html

    1. This is the inevitable result of Donald Trump’s scorched-earth campaign tactics.

        1. I just came back to link that!

          CNN is on a roll:

          it is illegal for citizens to look at wikileaks but it is different for the media so CNN will explain what is in there

          My favorite Dem/Media talking point is that you can’t criticize international bankers or the media because to do so is anti-semitic.

    2. RNC praying this was a supporter of Democrats. DNC praying this was a false-flag by a Republican supporter.

      1. And Apple praying this was a Samsung Galaxy Note.

        1. I gotta say that Galaxy 7 allows for endless Willie coyote humor

      2. DNC doesn’t have to pray. The media will report it as such.

    3. What do all but the last example have in common?

      “The incident comes barely three weeks before an election marked by heightened tensions and passion on both sides.

      “On Sunday the Bangor Daily News reported that about 20 cars were vandalized with spray paint outside a Saturday rally for GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump.

      “Earlier this year violence broke out with protesters at a Trump rally in Chicago. And one protester was sucker-punched at a Trump rally in Fayetteville.”

    4. But see republicans are nazis which is why we must exterminate them all.

  34. Now we know why Hillary uses a van instead of an SUV: It has a bed.

    1. Nudge nudge wink wink! Know what I mean?

  35. Good lord the packers throwbacks are ugly. Not as bad as the Steelers’, but certainly horrible enough to where someone should have vetoed the idea of using them.

  36. Putin’s response to the hacking allegations

    http://tinyurl.com/zttxfo8

    1. Pretty bad when a Bond villian is more honest than CNN.

  37. Interesting if true. So Hillary lied under oath to Rand Paul, armed radical Islamic terrorists overseas, privately admitted we can’t vet Muslim refugees, and still wants more of them! Is this the intellectual fallout of idiot leftist multi-culti ideology, or a deliberate plan to fuck over the USA, or what?

    People keep saying Trump is equally bad. Bullshit.

    1. I’m sure Reason is putting a lot of investigative journalism into this information but first they have to publish a piece on the scourge of high fructose corn syrup.

      1. Don’t forget about the latest violent dimwit to auto-Darwinate by getting into a fight with cops.

    2. I’m not clear on what is the difference between the weapons programs we don’t know about and the ones we DO know about.

  38. https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/11915

    “If we do it case by case, then it will be subjective. We would look at who the donor is and what foreign entity they are registered for. In judging whether to take the money, we would consider the relationship between that country and the United States, its relationship to the State Department during Hillary’s time as Secretary, and its relationship, if any, to the Foundation. In judging the individual, we would look at their history of support for political candidates generally and Hillary’s past campaigns specifically.”

  39. Hillary Clinton awoke to find herself in a small, windowless room. Within reach was a large red button which read “PUSH”. She pushed the button. The TV in front of her flickered to life and showed the face of a ghastly puppet. The puppet “spoke” with a deep, gravelly voice:

    Hello Hillary. You don’t know me, but I know you. I want to play a game. Here’s what happens if you lose: the TV in front of you will play speeches from this man and you will watch until you die of boredom.

    Look around your cell. One of the walls is different from the others. That is because it is made of pot brownies. You’ve supported the War on Drugs your whole career, so I know you hate marijuana.To escape, you must eat through the wall of pot brownies within the next 5 minutes. Look around and know that I’m not lying.

    Live or die. Make your choice.”

    1. All the things she’s done and she gets rewarded with a stack of pot brownies? I’m at least 99.999% less of a criminal than she is so where’s my stack of pot brownies?

      1. I had a hard time coming up with a funny, ironic punishment for her. Maybe force her to play Mortal Kombat? She was against violent video games too.

        1. I have a punishment for both Bill and Hillary. They have to live with each other.

        2. She has to hand wash 1,000 stained blue dresses.

  40. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHlIQuycNps

    I liked it better when they weren’t so blatantly corrupt.

    1. That is damn funny.

  41. I’ll be honest – the Falcons got jobbed on that pass interference no-call, but I’ll take the win anyways and rationalize it as “well, there’s a lot of little cheating going on every play that doesn’t get called and that’s the breaks”. Everything can be rationalized as long as you win.

  42. Derivative works do violate copyright and thus steal the intellectual property of the creators. We against property now? Libertardians going full socialist?

    1. *Unlicensed* derivative works violate the *privilege* that copyright grants. They don’t *steal* anything.

  43. Yeah I’m drawing the line at political terrorism.
    And when I say “Drawing a line” I mean the bottom line.
    I would love to sell weapons to both the Democrats, and Republicans.
    Though in my own self interest. I would sell the better weapons to the Republicans.
    Mercantilism is easier to subvert than Socialism. =D

  44. Brock Oswieler sucks.

    Not voting for him!

    1. I’m not a sports fan, but I love to watch a good old Hockey fight. =D

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b7TvIbPHU8

    1. In case anybody is wondering, I am a Mr. Fusionist sockpuppet.

        1. That’s just what a Fusionistical Sockpup would say!

    2. Ah… memories of having a back yard and hearing that every. single. night.

  45. Is this article about how lower taxes and less regulation spur innovation? No? Oh, it’s about the collusion between big business and government and how they manage to squelch competition and enrich entrenched special interests? Yawn. I’m bored. Instead we should trade cooking recipes. It’s cold and wet where I live so here’s my chili recipe– guaranteed to warm you up.

    Add 1/2 lb of sausage and 1/2 lb of ground beef to a skillet. Brown. Drain. Return to pan.
    Add one package of dry chili mix to the meat
    In a separate pan, add 1 potato, cubed. Add 1 tsp each of cumin, turmeric, chili powder, mustard
    Saut?ed until al dente then add 1 green pepper
    Saut? for 2 min then add one onion, minced, five cloves of garlic. Saut? the onion and garlic for one minute until shimmering
    Toss then add to beef
    Add two diced tomatoes to the pan used to saut? the veggies, make sure to pick up all the drippings in the pan, add to the pot.
    Add 2 cups vegetable broth, 1 can of kidney beans, heat on medium heat until boiling. Turn down heat to simmer.
    Serve with corn bread.
    Salt and pepper to taste
    Delicious.

    1. ” it’s about the collusion between big business and government and how they manage to squelch competition and enrich entrenched special interests? ”

      You advocate a merger between the two. Your chili recipe is dog shit.

      1. I don’t. I don’t think the government should have the right to stop this filmmaker from making his movie at the point of a gun. I’m a libertarian so I think laws around IP are dog shit and keep innovative entrepreneurs from starting businesses over the threat of patent infringement from Monsanto/Bayer.

        1. “I’m a libertarian”

          What exactly is a libertarian socialist?

          1. It’s being a libertarian before libertarianism was mangled by the likes of Ayn Rand and her right-wing allies. It’s a system of government that, for example, wouldn’t enforce a copyright on behalf of CBS because some fan wanted to make a movie about Spock with his friends.

            1. You could have saved everyone some time and just said liar.

                1. Are you on the government payroll too, Papaya? So many here are. Just wondering.

                  1. It’s OK he’s laughing at a joke.

                  2. No, no government money for me.

            2. ” It’s a system of government”

              LOL

              Yes Government has always been about the rule of Law rather the than the rule of man.

              Monarchy.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy

        2. Why should I take the word of someone like you that breaks a contract on a whim, does not pay a debt owed in good faith, and supports theft of your neighbors to pay off your debts ?

          You are not a Libertarian AMSOC. You are a cowardly thief.
          You are so pathetic, you cannot even steal for yourself.

          Signed articles mean nothing to you.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBMVZdE97l0

        3. You are the worst type of person AMSOC.
          You are untrustworthy.

    2. You forgot the 1/4 cup of ground potassium cyanide. Adds saltiness – you’ll like it.

    3. Also your wasting the fat.
      You use spices like smoked paprika to absorb the fat before you deglaze the pot.
      Take your shit ass “Chili” and shove it up your ass along with your economic ignorance.

      1. It tasted alright to me but I’ll try it your way next time.

        The point of posting the recipe, though, was to point out that we have a whole bunch of people here that don’t seem all that upset about Bush’s wars or abortion or the WonD or having large companies sit on copyrights, but will absolutely go to DefCon1 about Hillary Clinton’s Benghazi emails. If they’re so bored by hearing about government collusion with big entrenched business interests can’t they go over to Breitbart or some Alex Jones’ website to post about Juanita Broadrrick? Do they really need to spend bandwidth in order to social signal to their friends that the Clinton Foundation matters, but corporatism doesn’t?

        1. BLAME BUSH !!!!

          I guess in your case (just like the neocons, and the socons) it’s the devil you believe in rather than the devil that looks you in the mirror every day.

        2. Do you ever stop lying?

    4. american socialist|10.16.16 @ 9:24PM|#

      Is this article about how lower taxes and less regulation spur innovation? No? Oh, it’s about the collusion between big business and government and how they manage to squelch competition and enrich entrenched special interests? Yawn. I’m bored.

      Well you would be since the major point of this article is how continuing to tighten the ratchet of regulation has major negative effects – even if the initial regulation was beneficial.

      That goes completely counter to your whole ‘Top Men can run the economy if you just do what they say’ paradigm.

    5. Everyone, be nice. Don’t you know Amsoc is a math genius, like the guy from Rainman? He can do math *in his head*!

      Have you seen his latest theorem? He’s sure to win a Fields Medal for it.

      1. X=5.

        I thought the whole idea of the modern libertarian was to engage in rational discussion and not engage in personal attack. When someone mentions to me that thy’re for limited government I immediately think that probably we’re on the same side since I too favor a government that doesn’t get involved in its people’s private lives or fight bullshit wars.

        So imagine my surprise when I come to the flagship website of principled libertarianism and find that the commenters there behave like spoiled children over internecine squabbles with people that, like them, don’t desire to be ruled over by tinpot dictator wannabes like Donald Trump.

        Someone should wash the collective commentariat’s mouth out with a big bar of soap. Get a grip.

        1. Let me grab you a fainting couch and a bottle of Voss.

        2. Oh really? Can you name a single aspect of life you do not want the govt to either tax, regulate, mandate, or outlaw?

          1. AMSOC just loves Black Markets =D

          2. Besides abortion, drugs, gay marriage, minimal defense spending I’d probably support a background check on the sale of bazookas. I’m imperfect, I know.

            1. Ah, so you don’t think a bakery should be sued into bankruptcy if they refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding. Well, that’s refreshing.

              1. You think that’s a serious issue? I suppose someone, somewhere will have to make an accommodation for some Christianist and probably closeted bigot who doesn’t want to bake a cake for gay people. You know, like a polite acknowledgement of your stupid sky fairy, followed by a follow-up on Yelp under “wedding cakes.”

                The problem that I have with Hillary Clinton emails and gay wedding cakes is that these issues are so small potatoes. What kind of miniarchist vanguard of the proletariat are you anyway?

                1. Yeah, taking millions of dollars in bribes from foreign govts while Secretary of state- FAKE SCANDAL!

                  Taking millions of dollars from Wall St and giving secret speeches to them- FAKE SCANDAL!

                  Setting up a private email server for the sole purpose of hiding the above and other crimes- FAKE SCANDAL!

                  Having your email hacked and exposing classified information- FAKE SCANDAL!

        3. “When someone mentions to me that thy’re for limited government I immediately think that probably we’re on the same side”

          You know when I can tell you’re lying?

        4. “Someone’s should wash the collective commentariat’s mouth out with a big bar of soap”

          These mouths won’t be washed, do you get that yet cupcake?

  46. Beans IN the chili? Wars have been fought over less.

    1. Beans or no beans. I’ll kill a motherfucker that willingly wastes flavor. D=

  47. Anna . I see what you mean… Virginia `s postlng is incredible, last tuesday I got a new Audi Quattro after having made $5000 this last 5 weeks and over 10k this past month . without a doubt it is the coolest work I have ever had . I started this seven months/ago and pretty much immediately started making minimum $85 per hour . view it
    ????????> http://www.factoryofincome.com

    1. Jesus Christ, are all libertarians getting a check from the government?

      http://platedlizard.blogspot.c…..n.html?m=1

      1. Well some people actually serve society in order to protect it. The Military is one of the few functions of Government that most Minarchist Libertarians agree is necessary.
        Derpologist joined the military voluntarily.
        Unlike under a forced socialist country where military service is mandatory.
        Also Derpologist pays his debts.
        Unlike you.

        1. Pfft. When has the US military defended anything I hold dear? You mean bombing peasents to keep the oil flowing or to keep Kissinger’s dominoes from falling? Sorry, that’s not mission critical for me. That’s the thing about you guys. You think you’re part of some near revolutionary movement, but really your only complaint is that the government spends too much money on things you don’t value. That doesn’t set you apart– that plants you firmly in the realm of everybody else in this dumb country who thinks the guv’mint spends too much money on everybody else. I wish you’d get over yourselves.

          1. Psst: many regulars here think the the US has fought in too many wars and spends too much on the military. Even ones who are current or former members of the military!

            I believe in an all volunteer military. It’s one of the planks of the Libertarian party.

      2. The thing is people like you AMSOC are always cool with mandatory military service when people like you are in power.
        You are all for the draft when a Democrat like FDR, or Obama is in power.

      3. Govt: either you pay in or you take from.

        Now whose idea was that?

        1. Derpologist you Magnificent Bastard !!!
          I read your book !!!!
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJXKVOxqkWM

        1. I’ll throw down $20 to put this on his tombstone.

  48. Liliana . if you think Lawrence `s blog is incredible, I just purchased a new Honda after earning $5741 this – 4 weeks past and also 10 grand lass month . it’s by-far the most-comfortable job I have ever done . I started this four months/ago and almost immediately began to make minimum $85… p/h .

    see this……………. http://www.BuzzNews10.com


  49. Facebook Create a job in 2016 for every user just using facebook account
    for 2-3hr.I am check this is nice job first hr i earn 180$ and last my eaning balance is 345$ per hour.
    ???????? http://www.great.jobs14.com

  50. until I looked at the paycheck saying $4730 , I did not believe that…my… brother woz like actualy bringing in money part time from there computar. . there friend brother started doing this for less than 7 months and resently paid for the morgage on there home and bought a new Cadillac …….

    ……………… http://www.jobprofit9.com

  51. Liliana . if you think Lawrence `s blog is incredible, I just purchased a new Honda after earning $5741 this – 4 weeks past and also 10 grand lass month . it’s by-far the most-comfortable job I have ever done . I started this four months/ago and almost immediately began to make minimum $85… p/h .

    see this……………. http://www.BuzzNews10.com

  52. Kaylee . I just agree… Michelle `s rep0rt is incredible, on tuesday I bought themselves a Acura after having earned $4812 this past month and a little over 10-k last munth . without a doubt its the easiest-work I have ever had . I began this seven months/ago and pretty much straight away earned over $71 per-hr . pop over to this site

    ……………. http://www.jobhub44.com

  53. until I looked at the paycheck saying $4730 , I did not believe that…my… brother woz like actualy bringing in money part time from there computar. . there friend brother started doing this for less than 7 months and resently paid for the morgage on there home and bought a new Cadillac …….

    …….. http://www.jobprofit9.com

  54. until I looked at the paycheck saying $4730 , I did not believe that…my… brother woz like actualy bringing in money part time from there computar. . there friend brother started doing this for less than 7 months and resently paid for the morgage on there home and bought a new Cadillac …….

    …….. http://www.jobprofit9.com

  55. Liliana . if you think Lawrence `s blog is incredible, I just purchased a new Honda after earning $5741 this – 4 weeks past and also 10 grand lass month . it’s by-far the most-comfortable job I have ever done . I started this four months/ago and almost immediately began to make minimum $85… p/h .

    see this……………. http://www.BuzzNews10.com

  56. until I looked at the paycheck saying $4730 , I did not believe that…my… brother woz like actualy bringing in money part time from there computar. . there friend brother started doing this for less than 7 months and resently paid for the morgage on there home and bought a new Cadillac …….

    …….. http://www.jobprofit9.com

  57. Thank you admin has given me the infomasi useful to me and everyone.

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