Sacramento Cops Shoot and Kills Homeless Man 30 Seconds After Trying to Run Him Over

"Fuck this guy," one of the cops is caught saying in the footage

YouTube

Police called in over an apparently mentally ill homeless man who allegedly wielded a knife in front of spooked resident tried to run the man over with their vehicle before fatally shooting him. Police released video from three dash cams as well as 911 recordings related to the July incident late last month within an hour of the Sacramento Bee releasing footage taken by a witness of the shooting itself.

In one of the recordings, one of the officers is heard saying "fuck this guy" and suggesting he would try to run the man over. The second cop agrees. A little over thirty seconds later, the cops fire at the man 14 times, killing him. Police were originally called because the man, Joseph Mann, was allegedly staring at residents who were having coffee outside in a way that made them uncomfortable, as the Sacramento Bee reports. Residents say Mann then began to pretend he was typing on an imaginary keyboard and urinated his pants. Residents say they told him he had to leave. Mann responded by pulling out a knife described as a steak knife, and then residents called police. The resident who called told police Mann had a knife and also suggested he may have had a gun, saying he had seen Mann reach for something in his waistband he said "looked like a gun." Dispatchers told police Mann was armed with a knife and a gun, but a gun does not appear on the footage nor did police find one after canvassing the area.

The incident, which happened days after high profile police shootings in Baton Rouge and Minnesota and the ambush on police officers in Dallas, led members of the Sacramento city council to demand to see the footage, but the city attorney advised them to wait until the investigation was over. Police released the footage only after the Sacramento Bee released footage taken by a witness. The two cops were placed on "modified duty" after the incident.

Watch the cellphone video:

And dashcams:

Comments

[Steve G]

Bums Lives Matter

[LilyPreston]

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[Playa Manhattan.]

That mag dump was... a little unnecessary.

Good thing cops are exempt from the CA's high capacity magazine laws, or he never would have gotten off those 14 shots.

[DOOMco]

I lost count at 12. But they must train to just dump a whole mag, and then buy a new one. They're one time use, right?

[Agammamon]

They go bad if you leave them opened.

[DOOMco]

"So you just finished off the bottle?"
"I had to. It's vodka. It goes bad once it's opened."

[gimmeasammich]

+1 $10 banana

[DEG]

That mag dump was... a little unnecessary.

I noticed that.

My first thought on reading the headline was, "30 seconds? Remarkably restrained."

[Playa Manhattan.]

If there weren't trees in the median, they would have run him over sooner.

[liechecker]

They didn't run him over at all, dumbass

[Playa Manhattan.]

Rough Saturday, Tulpa?

[DEG]

Oh fuck. Not Tulpa.

[liechecker]

PROTECT THE NARRATIVE AT ALL COSTS

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Fuck off, Tulpa!

[DenverJ]

#TulpaLivesMatter

[Hank Phillips]

You can't be too careful with dope attics!

[DOOMco]

12 shots?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well, they know that for every four they fire three are going to hit something other than the intended target.

[Juvenile Bluster]

What exactly is "modified duty"? Sit at a desk during the day and collect overtime in the bar telling the story to your jealous coworkers?

[C. Anacreon]

"Modified Duty" means you get transferred to the Mod Squad.

[Libertarian]

+1 the missing link

[Jimbo]

***Raucous applause!***

[Rufus The Monocled]

As they high five each other.

[croaker]

Modified duty is "School Resource Officer." You know, the ones that arrest kids for "stealing" milk that they get for free.

[__Warren__]

How do you have coffee outside in way that makes you uncomfortable?

[The Hyperbole ((Very Tall))]

However the were doing it, it might explain why this dude was staring at them.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

"How do you have coffee outside in way that makes you uncomfortable?"

I've done it. I got throwed out of two coffee houses for it. And told in another one they didn't want folks like me around annoying everyone. I have no flipping idea what it was. It's like one of the few situations where I'm not yelling "you're all cunts!" or something about the prevalent fantasy of white women to get raped by a Negro. It's worth noting that in both cases I was told something about there being "Christian" folks present. Fuck those jewbags. I'm more Xtian than any of them. And more nigger than any of them could ever wish to be.

[Jay Dubya]

yeah it just boggles the mind that a delightful charmer like you would be asked to leave a place of business.

[The Late P Brooks]

Lives were feared for.

[Libertarian]

Guns were discharged. Fucks were uttered.

[Jimbo]

...and bullets killed.

[Wizard4169]

Uttered, but not given.

[Agammamon]

Well, its become pretty obvious that if you want someone dead all you need to do is call 911 and say 'and I *think* he has a gun'.

[Crusty Juggler]

Yeah.

[Playa Manhattan.]

I think Crusty has a gun. He definitely peed his pants.

[Agammamon]

He definitely peed his pants.

Dude, that was last week. Why you keep bringing up old shit? We've moved on. Now the conversation revolves around him not changing his pants for a week.

[Jimbo]

I love the smell of piss in the morning.

[Jerryskids]

I liked the "reaching for his waistband" remark - was it a "furtive movement" toward his waistband? But you're out in the parking lot drinking coffee and somebody stops to look at you all bug-eyed and you think that's a reason to get all this shit started? Don't tell me you had no idea where this might wind up.

[Crusty Juggler]

Joseph Mann, was allegedly staring at residents who were having coffee outside in a way that made them uncomfortable, as the Sacramento Bee reports. Residents say Mann then began to pretend he was typing on an imaginary keyboard and urinated his pants. Residents say they told him he had to leave. Mann responded by pulling out a knife described as a steak knife, and then residents called police.

Without justifying the police action, I think the above paragraph is a little more than just "stops to look at you all bug-eyed," especially if I was the coffee shop owner.

[DOOMco]

I like the fake laptop bit.

[Playa Manhattan.]

He was typing up his will.

[Jimbo]

Swish!

[Crusty Juggler]

Not coffee shop owner, homeowner.

[Jimbo]

Homo, for short

[Limpee Wiltstock]

I seen crasier crap than that every Saturday at the bar when I used to work there. Imaginary laptops and cellphones were particularly common. But then, I've noticed a higher concentration of lunatics (sensu stricto) the further one goes inland from the coast. A lot more retarts on the coast, however. I remember gangs of retarts in Portland. I onced saw them attack a car stopped at a crosswalk.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

"But then, I've noticed a higher concentration of lunatics (sensu stricto) the further one goes inland from the coast."

Probably because they don't get kilt off for it. I remember as a youngster travelling to downtown Missoula... there was a hamage of psychoes on every streetcorner practicly. People arguing with lampposts and treestalks... It wasn't nearly as commonplace in my experience of the coast (Portland, San Francisco, and los ?ngeles). Curiously, I don't remember seeing any unquestionably crasy people in the villages of Mexico when I was there. In fact, despite the hard living they had to make, they were some of the most human and congenial folks I've been around. I can see why my brother lived there for years. Also easy for an estadounidense to get by if he's brought even a small stash of American dollars which are adequately well-hid and not too obviously flaunted. It's probably now, like every place else, a living hell of moral degradation and perversity.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

Give me a break about my reports of things. I'm an old man.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

Yeahr and if you want the cops to keep the fuck away, say "He has a gun." I've noticed a peculiar shyness when it comes to situations where the person of interest is unquestionably well armed.

[The Late P Brooks]

In one of the recordings, one of the officers is heard saying "fuck this guy" and suggesting he would try to run the man over. The second cop agrees

Conspiracy to commit murder, right?

RIGHT?

*I crack myself up.

[Marty Feldman's Eyes]

That blatant little indiscretion actually gives me a little hope that these fuckers will end up seeing some meaningful punishment. Kind of hard to paint it as self defense when they're on record as wanting to go after the guy.

[Jerryskids]

Marty Feldman's Eyes. There's a name I haven't seen in a long time. Have I not been paying attention or you a new MFE?

[Suthenboy]

I think I remember MFE from way back. Those eyes have been around here before but it has been a few years.

[Ted S.]

He's ferocious
And he knows just what it takes to make the pros blush.
All the boys think he's a spy,
He's got Marty Feldman eyes.

[Marty Feldman's Eyes]

Her head is growing bald
Her feet are twice her size
She says it's not her fault
She's got Marty Feldman eyes

She'll turn the sprinklers on you
And dry you off with her thighs
She'll confuse the hell out of you
She's got Marty Feldman eyes

And she'll woo you
Then she'll moon you
And forget to pull her pants up
She's obnoxious
And she knows it
And she knows how to blow her nose up
All the boys think she's fried
She's got Marty Feldman eyes

(Do it dirty!)

She's ferocious
Narcoleptic
Ambidextrous
Supercalafragalisticexpialadocious
Bogus
Vegamatic
(she slices and she dices!)

All the boys think she's a guy
She's got Marty Feldman eyes

You're so lame
You probably think this song is about you
You're so lame
You're so lame, yeah

Jimmy Durante's nose
And Jimmy Walker's lips
Liberace's clothes
Shelly Duvall's hips
She's got Willy Nelson legs
And Nancy Reagan's spleen
Dolly Parton's lungs
She's got Leon Spinks' teeth
Bob Seger's pancreas

All the boys think she's some kind of guy
She's got Marty Feldman eyes

[The Late P Brooks]

Fooled again

After some light laughter died down, Clinton attempted to explain that Sanders was offering millennials an attractive but unrealistic set of policies. 'There's just a deep desire to believe that we can have free college, free health care, that what we've done hasn't gone far enough, and that we just need to, you know, go as far as, you know, Scandinavia, whatever that means," she said. "Half the people don't know what that means, but it's something that they deeply feel."

Clinton went on to say that many millennials backing Sanders were "children of the Great Recession" and "living in their parents' basement," who "feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves" but did not see the gains they expected.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

After some light laughter died down, Clinton attempted to explain that Sanders was offering millennials an attractive but unrealistic set of policies. 'There's just a deep desire to believe that we can have free college, free health care, that what we've done hasn't gone far enough, and that we just need to, you know, go as far as, you know, Scandinavia, whatever that means," she said. "Half the people don't know what that means, but it's something that they deeply feel."

And yet Hillary spent the majority of the debate talking about how the rich can pay for all her proposals.

[The Fusionist]

I love the Post's approach to this story, as indicated by the headline "Republicans latch onto audio of Clinton critiquing Sanders's 'revolution,' but senator's team pushes back"

So it's not about what Clinton allegedly said in (deserved) mockery of young Sanders supporters to whom she's now pandering - it's not about the illegal hack which brought us the speech - both topics should have been covered.

But it's put in purely horse-race terms: Video shown on right-wing media, Trump trying to win back alienated youth, etc.

[dantheserene]

Forget it Jake, it's The Post.

[The Late P Brooks]

And-

"I met with a group of young black millennials today," said Clinton, "and you know one of the young women said, 'You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don't believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.' So that is a mindset that is really affecting their politics. And so if you're feeling like you're consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn't pay a lot, and doesn't have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing. So I think we should all be really understanding of that and should try to do the best we cannot to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism."

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the vast majority of those people entered college without the vaguest notion of what sort of job they expected or wanted when they graduated.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the vast majority of those people entered college without the vaguest notion of what sort of job they expected or wanted when they graduated.

The assumption was that if they went to college and "discovered themselves" while getting an education a good paying job would just fall in their laps after graduation.

Not entirely their fault because higher education is a scam that's foisted upon you as soon as you leave 8th grade but still, there's simply a feeling of entitlement where many of these people expect to live comfortably and not have to work more than 40 hours a week to advance themselves.

[DOOMco]

Agreed.

[Playa Manhattan.]

40 hours a week? Ha!

These people want to self-actualize AND get paid 6 figures for it. Fuck them.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

NO. Fuck the tenured twits who sold them this pipe-dream. Fuck the 'everybody should go to college' narrative because what it's really about is stockpiling well paid Liberal Intellectual Progressive nitwits, who will reliably vote Democrat. Also, fuck the pricks who are coming down HARD on 'for profit' colleges. In fact, fuck them sideways with a cactus; I suppose there's somebody somewhere who could tell me, with a straight face, that that isn't about distracting people from the abysmal record of the traditional colleges. I wouldn't BELIEVE them though.

I lucked out. Went to college with only a vague idea what I wanted to do, dropped out, and managed. Helps that there was money in the family, and I married a very smart lady. I'll take what I got, thank you. But most people don't have that kind of luck.

The whole of the educational establishment desperately needs to be turned upside down and shaken utill all the rats fall out.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I have one more fuck for you.

Fuck all the idiots who convinced people that "Women's Studies" (et al) is an actual degree.

You pick a degree that improves your ability to find work. You don't get work by simply having a/any degree. You waste $40K on Underwater Basket Weaving you deserve to be un/underemployed.

[Monroe Feather, Jr.]

"I met with a group of young black millennials today," said Clinton

Good job making the distinction, Tea Leoni. I was thinking of those AARP millenials until you said they were young.

[__Warren__]

Rads reviews a total scrotum-stomp of a documentary.

[DEG]

I found this article linked in the comments. It's from David Grossman, featured in the review. I'll let Grossman's article speak for itself.

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

reading about the lawnmowers alone was enough to make me hate every cop in this land of the free and stop reading. No way I'm going to watch the movie.

[DenverJ]

You know who else was an amoral, thieving, jackbooted, fucking Nazi?

[The Fusionist]

Donald Trump, right? It's always him.

[Mike Schmidt]

Jeff Gillooly?

[The Late P Brooks]

I get the disturbing impression that a large portion of college students have no idea what a "real" job involves. You just magically get a fat paycheck to fund your tropical vacation habit, and all those fancy restaurant dinners.

[The Late P Brooks]

Later, in the same article:

"As Hillary Clinton said in those remarks, she wants young people to be idealistic and set big goals," Caplin said. "She is fighting for exactly what the millennial generation cares most about ? a fairer more equal, just world. She's working to create new pathways to jobs and career opportunities, to build more inclusivity and community, and to ensure everyone gets a fair shot. She believes that the most diverse, open-minded generation in history wants their voice heard in this election and that's why she worked with Senator Sanders on a plan to provide students with debt free college and it's why she's traveling the country listening to their concerns and talking about not only what's at stake in this election, but her plan for the generation."

She's working to create new pathways to jobs and career opportunities, to build more inclusivity and community, and to ensure everyone gets a fair shot.

What the fuck does that even mean? She runs around puking up gibberish, and people lap it up and beg for more.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

She wants to triple AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps so all these social justice types can have a job. In addition to that she might toss some tax credits to people who do start-ups in shitty neighborhoods or employee a certain number of minorities.

It's just your basic Free Shit 4 Everyone Democratic proposal that ignores all the ways government is suffocating the economy.

[Playa Manhattan.]

What does peace corps pay? Derpatologist?

[Playa Manhattan.]

It says 8 grand when you get out.

I'm fine with the SJW types doing some difficult work for 8 grand. I'll be good for them.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Does the Peace Corps still do things like dig irrigation ditches in Third World countries? Because that sounds like actual work which many of these activists are probably too lazy to do.

[Derpetologist]

In the beginning, there were a lot of infrastructure projects. The first Peace Corps project was to build the national road network of the former nation of Tanganyika. A buddy of mine while I was in was initially slated to work at a hydroelectric dam in Ghana, but turned down the assignment. These days, about 40% of volunteers go to Africa. Central America and Eastern Europe make up most of the rest. The main sectors are education, health, and environment.

The ed guys are teachers, the health guys work in clinics and give health talks, the environment guys plant trees.

There are also youth and business development sectors. They do clubs for kids and help small businesses get loans.

Fun fact: In the recent past, Ukraine was the country with the most Peace Corps volunteers.

[C. Anacreon]

Fun fact: In the recent past, Ukraine was the country with the most Peace Corps volunteers.

Ah, Ukraine. My first college roommate was a Ukie. He taught me all the Ukranian swear words, so I could say things like "dobre pisda".

He had an album of Soviet parodies of the USA. One bit was a fake Chevy commercial, instead of singing "See the USA, from your Chevrolet" it was
"See the Ukraine, from our cattle train."

[Pompey (91% LOLLOLZ)]

Half of the people that I have met that did Peace Corp were unbearable sanctimonious turds that seem to expect you to kiss their nuts for being so selfless. But maybe I just have bad luck.

[Derpetologist]

The ones I was with were genuinely tolerant for the most part. You have to be to live in a country with very different customs. And you have to be a little tough to bathe using cold water in a bucket and live off mostly rice and beans.

But I get what you're saying. We got a little pamphlet when we were getting ready to go home that basically said "if someone asks about what you did, give them a 5 minute story and shut-up. Most people aren't going to be that impressed with what you did."

One of the jokes in the pamphlet was "so, you were in Tasmania. See any of the devils?"

I was in Tanzania.

The most common question I got was if I had to learn a clicking language. No, although clicks are used like swear words in Swahili.

[straffinrun]

Nice. "Really? Do you speak Chinese?" is a question I've gotten more than once on trips back to the states after explaining that I live in Tokyo.

[The Hyperbole ((Very Tall))]

Well? Do you?

[straffinrun]

Only know one phrase. "Doc, is the fetus a boy or girl?"

[Pompey (91% LOLLOLZ)]

Did you get the opportunity to chew some qat?

[DenverJ]

Euphemism?

[Suthenboy]

We have the same luck you and I, Pompey.

[Derpetologist]

It depends on where you are. I got paid about $200 per month in local currency when I was in. Since $1 was about 1200 Tanzanian shillings, I and most of my buddies ended up becoming shillionaires. There wasn't a whole lot for us to buy.

I forget the lump sum amount. After airfare, I had about 6k left over, so I guess the lump sum was close to 8k.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

Like all too many of the political class, Shrillary thinks of the State as the natural font of all good things. It would never occur to her that the government is parasitical. Symbiotic at best. That somebody, somewhere, has to actually be making something someone wants to buy, and the more you interfere with that the less wealth there is. Like far too many people she was asleep during whatever sound economic education she may have been exposed to.

[liechecker]

On the contrary, I think Hillary understands the nature of big government better than almost anyone. That's why she wants to be in charge of it. Being productive and competing in the free market is for suckers.

"For us to live any other way was nuts. Uh, to us, those goody-good people who worked shitty jobs for bum paychecks and took the subway to work every day and worried about their bills were dead. I mean they were suckers. They had no balls. If we wanted something, we just took it. If anyone complained twice they got hit so bad, believe me, they never complained again."

[Warty]

You sound familiar.

[dantheserene]

The parallels are astounding, aren't they?

[C. S. P. Schofield]

To be fair to Shrilly, and isn't that a shudder-some idea, the gibberish has been around longer than she has. She grew up with it. The problem is that she thinks it means something.

[Derpetologist]

"She's working to create new pathways to jobs and career opportunities, to build more inclusivity and community, and to ensure everyone gets a fair shot."

What the fuck does that even mean?

The sentence is just there as way to string together nice-sounding words together: job, opportunity, inclusivity, community, fair.

I'm sure she'd prefer just to just shout buzzwords and slogans like "fair share" and "tolerance", but it's hard to do that without looking like an idiot.

[liechecker]

Police were originally called because the man, Joseph Mann, was allegedly staring at residents who were having coffee outside in a way that made them uncomfortable

vs.

Mann responded by pulling out a knife described as a steak knife, and then residents called police.

So the first statement is false. Eddie Kray-Kray strikes again. He just forgot to omit the detail that contradicts his narrative. Sloppy.

[Andrew Jackson]

Good riddance.

One less insane moron.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

It's official! Wonder Woman is Queer!

In an interview with Comicosity for their Queer Visibility series, this exchange took place:

Matt Santori-Griffith: I'm going to start off simple and to the point. The Wonder Woman that you and Nicola have introduced to us in "Year One" ? is she queer?

Greg Rucka: How are we defining "queer?"

You're applying a term specifically and talking to an ostensibly cis male (and white to boot), so "queer" to me may not be the same as it is to an out gay man. So, tell me what queer is.

MSG: Fair enough. For the purposes of this conversation, I would define "queer" as involving, although not necessarily exclusively, romantic and/or sexual interest toward persons of the same gender. It's not the full definition, but it's the part I'm narrowing in on here.

GR: Then, yes.

Now, are we saying Diana has been in love and had relationships with other women? As Nicola and I approach it, the answer is obviously yes.

And it needs to be yes for a number of reasons. But perhaps foremost among them is, if no, then she leaves paradise only because of a potential romantic relationship with Steve [Trevor]. And that diminishes her character. It would hurt the character and take away her heroism.

[Col. Chestbridge]

Isn't this just common sense? She comes from an island and a culture where there are literally no men. Why would she be straight?

[Pope Jimbo]

Because she loves snu-snu?

[Bubba Jones]

If the patrons had shot the guy, it would have been a clean shoot.

However the cops decided to kill him before they even got out of the car.

I find this a bit odd because most cops never actually kill anyone. It would helpful to know how often a cop says "fuck this guy" and talks about running someone over without actually doing it.

E.g. Docs use a lot of black humor but no one accuses them of not trying to save the patient.

[liechecker]

However the cops decided to kill him before they even got out of the car.

They'd been following him in the car for 4 and a half minutes, given him chance after chance to drop the weapon, and he just kept threatening them (and throwing things at the car). It's not like they decided to kill him on sight.

Docs use a lot of black humor but no one accuses them of not trying to save the patient.

Their patients probably aren't threatening them with deadly weapons. Minor detail, I know.

[DenverJ]

Oh fuck you. There were four cars, which means at least four well armed, healthy men in armor and with a host of non-lethal weapons, against one malnourished, scrawny crazy guy armed with a steak knife.
I think they had options other than unloading 14 rounds into him.

[liechecker]

Like I said, I'm not totally sold on it being a justified shoot. We don't know what nonlethal options they had available (god knows Reason complains about those enough). I'm not going to shed any tears over a guy who was threatening people with a deadly weapon though, crazy or not.

What I object to is Mr. Kray-Kray making false statements about what caused the cops to be called, whether the cops tried to run the guy over, and what led up to the shooting. If it's really that bad of a "police abuse" then you shouldn't have to make shit up to make it look bad.

[DenverJ]

No, you lying liar. You said, "They'd been following him in the car for 4 and a half minutes, given him chance after chance to drop the weapon, and he just kept threatening them (and throwing things at the car). It's not like they decided to kill him on sight."
Implying that, because he had refused to comply for 4 and a half minutes, they were justified in deciding, at that point, to kill him.
Again, fuck off.

[liechecker]

Implying that, because he had refused to comply for 4 and a half minutes, they were justified in deciding, at that point, to kill him.

It certainly enters into it. He had established himself as a threat to anyone who got near him by waving the knife around and demonstrating his craziness. So yeah, once they got out of the car they were going to treat him as such.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure pepper spray would have done the trick either. A person with a face full of pepper spray could still stab the cop who tries to handcuff them.

[DenverJ]

A cop wearing a bullet proof vest, wielding a baton, with three other cops to get his back, all armed with pepper spray and tazers. Yup, the only option is to shoot him, FOURTEEN times.
Fuck off.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Nothing like an ice cold beer in an early October heat wave. 2 hours of soccer, and now a 22oz Stone Unapologetic IPA.

[DOOMco]

I have Stone's Tangerine IPA, it's flipping delicious.

[Jimbo]

Narwhahl imperial stout, by Sierra Nevada. It'seems kicking my ass!

[Jimbo]

As you can see, it's also affecting my typing.

[Threedoor]

Sound delicious. Sadly I'm in a bit of a beer desert.

[liechecker]

The bottom right video from the dashcam at 4:43 has the best view of the end of the "interaction". Looks like the guy was pointing his knife at the officers while about 10 feet away when he was shot. Probably not an immediate lethal threat, but that's easy to say watching the videos from the comfort of your home. 10 feet can become zero very fast.

The guy was given several opportunities to drop the knife in the preceding 4:43 and just kept walking away, toward busy streets. The officers in the original car showed extreme concern for innocent people walking or driving around, warning them away from the guy with the knife throughout the video. I know this thread is going to be full of "COPS LOVE TO MURDER PEOPLE" rhetoric, but it doesn't fit with the video. Not that Reasonoids typically allow facts to get in the way of their narrative.

Also, Eddie Kray-Kray seems to be suggesting that the cops did run the guy over, which is not the case. It was probably a bad joke on the part of the cop who said it.

[Warty]

Really, really familiar.

[DenverJ]

Yup, no option left but murder. They had to unload 14 rounds into the guy. This whole thing could have been avoided if the cops had things like pepper spray, tazers, or batons. Oh, they did have those things? Fuck off.

[liechecker]

You know what equipment they had how?

Reason has been inveighing against pepper spray and tazers for years.

[DenverJ]

Because I'm not a fucking idiot, and am aware that every fucking cop in America carries at least one non lethal weapon.
And, no, reason has been "inveighing" against unnecessary and capricious use of "pepper spray and tazers for years."
You dishonest fuck.

[Rod Flash]

I was pretty pleased when, up higher in the comments, the troll had mouthed off, responded to his own spew, and then spouted more nonsense in response to himself again. And not a single regular commenter weighed in. But now, here you are, feeding him. Too bad.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

More than 100 Star Trek actors and writers sign anti-Trump petition

More than 100 Star Trek castmates, crew members, and families of the same have endorsed an open letter calling for fans of the series to throw their support behind Hillary Clinton in the upcoming presidential election. The endorsements cover every single Star Trek series, as well as the films, with George Takei, Brent Spiner, Ren? Auberjonois, Kate Mulgrew, Scott Bakula, and J.J. Abrams all adding their names to the list.

Put together by a group calling itself "Trek Against Trump," the letter dials down hard on the show's original vision of a utopian future, saying "Never has there been a presidential candidate who stands in such complete opposition to the ideals of the Star Trek universe as Donald Trump." It also goes after those who would refuse to vote, calling out statements that both candidates are "equally bad" as "illogical and inaccurate." It ends with a call for voter registration, especially from young fans of the series, sending them to the registration help site Rock The Vote.

I think this might be the most sanctimonious Hollywood circle jerk I've ever seen. It might actually outdo the Joss Whedon video from last month.

[liechecker]

Jar Jar Abrams had something to do with Star Trek?

[C. S. P. Schofield]

There's actually a sort of logic to it. The United Federation of Planets is almost always depicted as a Good Thing, but most canonical material on it is clear that it is the kind of buttinski, meddle in everything, sanctimonious State that Shrilly represents.

There are a lot of governments like that in SF, because its easy to make agents of such a State heroes in fiction. It's the modern version of the 'White Man extending the frontiers of Civilization' narrative that makes tales of Alan Quartermaine , Tarzan, and so on so objectionable.

The thing is, the 'White Man's Burden' thing actually did some good. The Victorian British came close to stamping out the West African slave trade, not because it was costing them anything but because it was (in their opinion) wrong. To date the Monolithic State as a Force For Good has an awful track record.

[liechecker]

Meh, we really don't know anything about the politics of the Federation. Projecting that from Star Trek material would be like basing an opinion of US politics and culture on 300 hours of video from a nuclear sub.

Economics is fairly obsolete given they have free energy and can replicate any resource they need.

[DenverJ]

Tulpa gets one right.

[Pompey (91% LOLLOLZ)]

Does the music industry qualify as Hollywood? Because this would have my vote.

[The Fusionist]

"Never has there been a presidential candidate who stands in such complete opposition to the ideals of the Star Trek universe as Donald Trump."

Really?

A bold, risk-taking chief executive throws his weight around and finds alien women to fool around with?

[JayU]

Seems a bit extreme. But again we have a situation where if the guy had just not acted like a schizophrenic wacko he'd still be alive.

It's not a zero-sum situation. Almost never is.

[Suthenboy]

The problem, of course, is that the guy was acting like a schizophrenic wacko because he was a schizophrenic wacko. If I remember correctly that does not justify a death sentence which is exactly what these cops imposed on the the guy.
From the standpoint of 'how to deal with the mentally ill' they did everything wrong, wrong, wrong. I could have defused that situation in a matter of minutes without anyone being harmed.

It seems pretty clear from the video that once the guy refused to comply they decided to take him out.

Also, the person that called the police and said they thought he had a gun, fuck them. I hope they get a wrong door 3am SWAT raid and have the shit beaten out of them.

[Hank Phillips]

Objection! Speculation, prophezying, fortunetelling, nationalsocialist apologetics...

[AlmightyJB]

So basically the resident who told cops the dude had a gun committed murder.

[The Hyperbole ((Very Tall))]

Have police just entirely abandoned less lethal tactics, It would seem a guy armed with a steak knife would be the perfect time to use tasers, pepper spray, or even those bean bag shotgun things that Steve McQueen invented. I remember old TV shows about all the weapons being developed, noise ray gizmos, net guns, etc, and yet they always go straight to bang-bang time.

[Hank Phillips]

Ve obey ze Cherman Democrratic Republican solutions manual und orrders. Ass a varrning to troublemakers, ze City off Holy Sacramento iss changing ze designation off eets polizei. Ve are now ze Todes-schutzen.
Heil Schwartzenegger!

[GILMORE?]

residents called police... and also suggested he may have had a gun, saying he had seen Mann reach for something in his waistband he said "looked like a gun."..... Dispatchers told police Mann was armed with a knife and a gun

You'd think... in the 2 years since the Michael Brown shooting that sparked the subsequent national froth around police willingness to shoot unarmed people...

....that just *maybe*... dispatchers & police would be better prepared to "keep all assumptions off the table" until they are on the scene and able to determine the facts for themselves?

No, that's crazy talk.

It seems reminiscent about how many things work in todays media, as "Amplification via repeated transmission"...(aka "the telephone game")

where one piece of evidence might emerge...?
...and before that evidence is ever actually verified...
...it becomes amplified and exaggerated...

and is now "Indisputable Common Knowledge", where the only debate is 'How Epic-Awful It Really Is', and not 'whether or not the characterization is accurate'

[liechecker]

in the 2 years since the Michael Brown shooting that sparked the subsequent national froth around police willingness to shoot unarmed people

Does a person who grabs a cop's gun count as "unarmed"?

[GILMORE?]

I'm not interesting in playing retard-ping-pong, or re-litigating shit neither you or i can actually prove, thanks

i wasn't making any point about the "validity" of that shoot or not;

i was just saying that the issue of "over-use of deadly force" has been a very big issue for a couple of years now, and that you'd expect police at this point to maybe have implemented better procedures for dealing with "claimed reports about someone having a gun"... as in, "not immediately assuming them to be established fact"

[liechecker]

I'm not sure how much the dispatcher's mistake of saying he had a gun had to do with the shooting. The guy was pointing a knife at the cop 10 feet away. One could argue that's too great of a distance to shoot someone with a knife, though it's not a slam dunk.

[GILMORE?]

I'm not sure

We know.

None of what you said has anything to do with my point.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Fuck off, Tulpa, you diseased piece of human excrement.

[OneOut]

Sounds more like Officer Dunphy or Dumphy, or whatever his name is.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Dunphy, for all his faults, isn't prone to using sockpuppets.

Also, it's much too well written, and lacks idiotic acronyms and the self-aggrandizement common to Dunphy's posting.

It does absolutely reek of Tulpa, though.

[DenverJ]

Yeah, it's not Dunphy. Dunphy is many things, but he owns his comments. Whatever happened to him, anyway? Haven't seen that cop fellator in a long time.

[liechecker]

When you filter comments based on user name, don't be surprised when people change their user name in response. You crow about filters being noncoercive, well name changes are noncoercive too.

[DenverJ]

Yeah, unfortunately for you, the dishonesty of your posts gives you away. Now go masturbate to Mien Kampf, you fucking statist pig-sucker.

[liechecker]

LOL. Dishonesty would be camouflage around here.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

When you filter comments based on need to change your user name to get people to talk to you, don't be surprised when people change their user name in response call you a pathetic piece of shit..

[GILMORE?]

When you filter comments based on user name

Because annoying people is your *right*

[perlchpr]

No one who knows anything about lethal force situations would consider 10 feet "too great" of a distance to shoot a hostile opponent with a knife.

[GILMORE?]

A better example than the second broken-link

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

'the man, Joseph Mann, was allegedly staring at residents who were having coffee outside in a way that made them uncomfortable'

I take it the homeless problem in Sacramento isn't that bad. Where I live, this is what you call 'living here'.

[AlmightyJB]

Hello 911, I can't enjoy my overpriced latte with this menrally ill poor person standing here, could you please send a cop to come kill him?

[JayU]

I once had the cops called on me while standing out front of my own house.

Apparently I turned away and hid my face from a passing car. The person driving that car then decided I was a drug dealing serial killer and called the police.

I managed to avoid getting shot by the cops who showed up.

[Playa Manhattan.]

You put your pants back on?

[Rich]

The person driving that car then decided I was a drug dealing serial killer and called the police.

If you see something, say something.

Then enjoy the lawsuit.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You know who else urged people to report their fellow citizens?

[Rich]

Ann Landers?

[Rufus The Monocled]

Obama?

[Mike Schmidt]

Superman?

[Rufus The Monocled]

Fuck this guy, huh.

Fuck the cops. How about that?

[The Fusionist]

How does one get a crazy guy to put down the knife and surrender?

I would imagine that someone came up with protocols which work in at least some cases.

Talk to the guy in a soft and friendly voice?

Shoot him with a tranquilizer dart?

Tackle him and hope he doesn't have a gun and that he won't have an opportunity to hurt any of your important internal organs?

I would assume that some kind of pepper spray or tranquilizer might work, but I haven't actually done any field testing myself.

[liechecker]

Tranquilizers take a long time to have an effect. Hollywood lies.

Pepper spray probably would have done the trick, but Reason screeches when cops use that too.

Basically, Reason would advise the cops to just let the guy get away. Until he stabs someone, then they'll complain about ineffective policing.

[DenverJ]

Again you lie. Reason objects to cops tazing and pepper spraying people without good reason; I've never seen them say "kill em or let em go".
But you know that, you mendacious troll.

[liechecker]

Except every time it's used, they contort themselves into amazing shapes to explain why there was no good reason. Such as the UC-Davis "protest" where the idiots threatened the cops and formed a human fence to keep them from getting back to their vehicles. Then came the pepper spray, and Reason locked arms with the activist Left to condemn the "assault on peaceful protesters".

[DenverJ]

Because, forming " a human fence to keep them from getting back to their vehicles" is obviously such an immediate threat to their lives and physical well being that nothing short of deadly force could be an appropriate response.
You fucking fuck, fuck the fuck off, fucker.

[Hank Phillips]

True. Reason is just another commie plot to interfere with Herbert Hoover's Ordered Liberty. Coercion Magazine? is really where it's at. Kill them all and let the Baby Jesus sort them out! That's out motto over at Coercion Magazine?. Bringing back Hoovervilles, as George Bush so nearly managed to do, would have handily solved the homeless problem.

[Mike Schmidt]

They had the guy outnumbered. I think one or two pull out there batons and engage him (hoping to knock the knife out of his hand) while the other two circle around behind him and get a hold of him.

In some of these recent cases, If I put my opinion up here I think a lot of you would accuse me of being a police apologist. But this one sure looks like a straight-up execution.

[Hank Phillips]

Many California police are allowed to use nunchaku instead of those clubs from 40,000 B.C.. Nunchaku make disarming even a competent knife wielder a reasonably simple task. Mace does it from 8 feet away, but that does nothing to further Positive Christianity's Final Solution. Besides, the kind of creep who volunteers to kill people because of a marijuana seed, or tax arrearage, or whutever victimless pretext looter politicians use to order that deadly force be initiated, isn't interested in letting people live. Live and let live is not the Kleptocracy's policy.

[C. Anacreon]

How does one get a crazy guy to put down the knife and surrender?

I've seen this guy speak before on how to calm down a schizophrenic. Fairly simple techniques that anyone can use.

[The Fusionist]

Looks good - I suspect the cops would be scared to put themselves at any risk, or to drop their tough-guy posture and "show weakness."

But that's just a guess.

I'm not a professional, but I've had occasion to talk to a non-knife-wielding woman who was mentally freaking out and throwing stuff, and I used a soothing voice to say that things were basically OK. She recovered for the moment.

[The Fusionist]

(Let me add that I'm not always the best at interpersonal skills, so I don't think I'm Specially Gifted, I just figured that if someone is feeling agitation and panic, hearing a soothing and sympathetic voice might make them feel a bit calmer)

[Dog Star]

Yeah. That usually works with my wife, too, but if she's managed to arm herself with a knife--or any edged weapon--out comes the trusty net gun. Then the soothing sweet nothings.

[loveconstitution1789]

Police on the street should get training about knives from prison guards who deal with edged weapons without having a service pistol to blow the guy away.

[Fenris Wulf]

>>Residents say Mann then began to pretend he was typing on an imaginary keyboard and urinated his pants.

So ... he's a writer for Salon?

[VG Zaytsev]

More like an "editor" for reason.com.

[ammythomas494]

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[Hank Phillips]

Never let it be said that the Democratic and Republican wings of The Kleptocracy do not offer solutions to the problem of the homeless. Asset-forfeiture for a marijuana sprig means The Political State takes your home, but you still have to pay the mortgage from under an overpass. If the injustice of being robbed and turned out by unjust prohibition laws proves emotionally stressful, no worries! The Sacramento Police Department has The Final Solution...
Both the Democratic and Republican party platforms promise to preserve asset forfeiture and some drug prohibition. Remember that when you vote.