Immigration

Will We Build a Wall Against Chinese Immigrants, Too?

America has never been a "white" country. Economic and cultural nativism is on the rise - and the most un-American idea of all.

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Can you guess who the victims were of the largest mass-lynching in American history and where it took place? Most people would, I think, guess blacks first, then maybe Mexicans or Native Americans. And we'd assume it was somewhere in the old Confederate states. Writing in the Boston Globe, Jeff Jacoby notes that the 18 men and boys killed on October 24, 1871 were chosen dragged out of their houses and beaten and hanged because they were Chinese. The locale wasn't Alabama or Mississippi, either. It was Los Angeles, California.

They were Chinese, and they were murdered by a mob, nearly 500 strong, that included some of the city's leading citizens.

"Their first victim was an elderly, inoffensive Chinaman, whom they seized and dragged headlong through the streets, beating and abusing him at every step," the Los Angeles Daily Mirror later recounted. At the corner of Temple and New High streets, the lynch party tied a noose around the old man's neck and hauled him up. "The rope broke and the unfortunate wretch, innocent of any wrong, asked for mercy from his cruel tormentors. This was denied with jeers, and he was again hung up; this time successfully."

As readers of Reason know, the first mass exclusions on the basis of country of origin (then as now a proxy for protean categories of race) covered the Chinese in a law titled with unabashed descriptiveness: The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. (Read Erika Lee's recent history The Making of Asian America for more.)

Jacoby notes that Chinese now comprise the single-largest group emigrating to the United States:

In 2013, according to the Census Bureau, China was the country of origin for 147,000 US immigrants, compared to just 125,000 who came from Mexico. Over the previous 10 years, immigration from China and other Asian countries had been rising, while immigration from Mexico decreased. Since at least 2009, reported demographer Eric Jensen, more immigrants to America have been Asian than Hispanic. By 2013, the disparity was unmistakable: Asians accounted for 40.2 percent of the total immigration flow. Hispanics made up only 25.5 percent.

Last week, The Wall Street Journal crunched even more recent numbers. "In 2014, there were 31 states where more immigrants arrived from China than from Mexico. . . . Even in California, a top destination for Latinos, Chinese immigrants outnumbered Mexican immigrants." (The data include all immigrants, legal and illegal.)

Wikimedia, public domain

If Mexicans are the enemy within—all this talk of deporting millions of undocumented immigrants is mostly aimed at them—China has mostly replaced Russia or Japan as our major enemy without. Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, virtually all of the failed GOP candidates for president, and especially Donald Trump mince no words in saying they will hold China accountable for flexing its regional military might, "manipulating" its currency (something all national central banks do simply by existing), and especially "stealing" American jobs. And of course, Chinese immigrants in America threaten "us" in a way that is less like low-skilled Mexicans and more like the fears stoked by Jews back in the early 20th century: Chinese kids are so super-smart, especially in math and engineering, right, that they aren't taking manual-labor gigs away from low-income, low-skilled natives? They're taking away all the slots at the University of California system and maybe even the Ivy League! They're not human, they work too hard!

Jacoby closes his piece with a trenchant observation about how "we" (real Americans, who can trace at least two generations in the U.S. of A.!, but not inlcuding blacks) always eventually do the right thing after exhausting all other options:

We look back today at the demonization of Chinese immigrants in the 1870s and 1880s and are aghast that so many Americans could have spouted such ludicrous, ugly stuff. We have come a long way from the Chinese Exclusion Act to today's robust Asian immigration flows. A generation or two hence, Americans will look back at the harsh and unworthy immigration politics of our time, and be equally aghast that Mexicans were so reviled, and US citizens so willing to be deluded.

He's right about that. We eventually accept most ethnicities as A-OK (again, except for blacks and maybe American Indians). When my maternal grandparents (and as many of their relatives who could scrape together the money for a steerage-class ticket) showed up in America in the 1910s from god-forsaken southern Italy (a very distinct place than practically Austrian/French/Swiss and hence semi-legitimate northern Italy), they weren't white. No, they and their dusky skin, short bodies, and (obvious!) lack of intellectual capacity and impulse control were a big part of The Passing of the Great Race, or the pollution of the Nordic blood that defined true Americans, in Madison Grant's influential, idiotic thought. One of the great achievements of the 20th century (for my family, at least) was that my parents, born of Italian parents on side and Irish immigrants on the other, emerged as fully white and American within 40 or 50 years of being born. It only took suffering through the Depression, really, and supplying infantry members in World War II and Korea. Certainly, by the early 1970s (when the foreign-born population was at a historic low), nobody was questioning whether micks and wops didn't belong; the same went for Jews, whether they came originally from Germany, Poland, Russia, or wherever. In an era of rising crime rates, street violence, and economic empowerment of often-ethnic sports and movie stars who weren't interested in taking a back seat, traditional white America had bigger problems and needed more troops to fight off the onslaught of Puerto Ricans and Dominicans in the Northeast, Mexicans in the Southwest, and blacks and American Indians everywhere (the numbers of these latter two groups weren't increasing, but they were increasingly restive). Japanese went from being interned during World War II to being honorary whites and the same was kinda-sorta true for Chinese, Koreans, and Vietnamese refugees (once they learned unaccented English, at least).

What counts as "white" has always been fluid and fraudulent, but it often (always?) comes at the expense of some new out-group. Hell, in the days after the 9/11 attacks, even blacks were "white" for a while, because we were all united against Arabs or Muslims (and maybe Sikhs, because they seemed like kind of the same thing and people still aren't making clear distinctions between nationalities and religion). Jacoby is sanguine that anti-Chinese animus is deeply buried in the past, like coolies in a mountain landslide during the building of the transcontinental railroad. I'm not so sure, especially if economic growth continues to snail-pace along at less than 2 percent a year. That sort of anemic expansion—a product of all sorts of things, including out-of-control government spending, ever-increasing regulatory dicta, and forcibly misallocated dollars into everything from defense spending to insurance premiums to ineffective safey rules—makes us all crabs in a pot that seems to be getting smaller all the time. The water gets hotter and well, you start fighting like nobody's business to kick out everyone you can. If Chinese immgrants keep coming over in relatively large numbers, Chinese Americans keep doing well here, and China continues coming into focus as our major economic and military adversary on the world stage, we could easily see a resurgence of the worst sort of populist racism and discrimination.

In an exchange related to his column, the Globe's Jacoby tweeted this out:

I think that's just about exactly right. Certainly, it helps explain that amazing and largely unremarked upon fact of assimilation and acculturation that my parents, especially on my mother's side, as Italians were more "foreign" than Irish, managed in less than a lifetime. My mother's parents never spoke English their entire lives, yet before they died, the Italian-American immigrant experience, as cartoonishly but powerfully expressed in The Godfather novel and movies, had become the American experience. When my folks got married in 1950, it was considered a species of mixed marriage (made possible only by the fact that they were both Catholic, itself a centuries-old marker for being less-than-fully "American"). The idea of America as a place where anyone from anywhere can come and express their potential through radical economic, cultural, and political freedom is what's exceptional about this country. At its best, America is always something new and constantly changing, becoming, one hopes, ever-more inclusive and expansive. There's always room for more of everything in a country that has barely gotten started.

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  1. This is exactly what a half Wop/Mick would say.

    1. He thinks he’s white now.

        1. U Suck Ass?

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      1. Sure, but what shade of “white”?

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    3. Half Italian, quarter German and quarter Irish. 1000% ZFG.

  2. I was in China a few weeks back. A random security guy (rent a cop) at the site I was at wanted a picture, I guess because they don’t see many Americans there. I am happy to report I was wearing my “Hayek is my Homeboy” t-shirt.

    Libertarian fucking moment.

    1. “That’s ‘Hayek’, as in ‘high-explosives’.”

      1. Haha, love that video.

  3. the rising influence of white nationalism is only because of the insane politics of the left have driven us here. You can only shame white people, lecture them about privilege, and declare them all to be inherently racist and evil for having the same skin color as the people who founded this country for so long before they will react. Every other ethnicity is told be proud of their heritage, except white people. In the attempts to un-whitewash American history, we know sanitize the history of every other culture, as if white people were evil and they corrupted the rest of the world. As if genocide, slavery, and rape weren’t extremely common in nearly every civilization on every continent for thousands of years before colonization. I am sad about this new political development, but it was entirely predictable. It is this push towards collective identity, instead of the individual. No human being should be proud or ashamed of what somebody they’re not even related to did a century ago.

    1. It’s not only the insane politics of the left. Racism has existed in various forms in nearly every culture since pretty much forever. The identity politics and victim worshiping on the left undoubtedly and predictably entrenches people in their tribalism, but that’s not the only way to react to it. I blame people on the left for pushing a false narrative in pursuit of a factitious ideology, but I also blame those who let themselves be so fractured.

      1. America certainly should prevent any further immigration from China; those who have come so far lurk everywhere, from market-places to inner-city alleys, and threaten to take us over by sheer force of numbers. But even more important is the construction of a wall to exclude the Trolls of the Net, traitors who spew their venomous trigger-speech in insidiously deadpan “parodies” mocking our finest citizens, including distinguished members of the academic community. Some progress has been made in New York, but surely we can do more. See the documentation of America’s leading criminal “satire” case at:

        http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

        1. Give it a rest.

      2. Basically, white folks are sick of being told they’re assholes for being white. enough is enough. Which is good. Time to hit back very hard at these totalitarian marxist scumbags.

    2. You’re an inherently evil white racist for even thinking this. Please submit to more guilty trippy white lectures by guys like Nick Gillespie, Steve Chapman, and Robby Soave so that you can be properly “corrected”.

      1. Of course. With a massive wave of uncontrolled illegal immigration, we surely need even more. Because open borders!

    3. Every other ethnicity is told be proud of their heritage, except white people.

      and that pride is bullshit, regardless of the color of your skin. Everyone’s “heritage” contains a mixture of good people, victims, and assholes. Be proud of your own accomplishments and know that other people’s actions are their own, even if you happen to share similar genes and skin color.

      1. and that pride is bullshit, regardless of the color of your skin. Everyone’s “heritage” contains a mixture of good people, victims, and assholes. Be proud of your own accomplishments and know that other people’s actions are their own,

        Doug Stanhope on nationalism, but it’s equally applicable to this: “the only thing ‘pride in your heritage’ has ever done is make you an asshole to people you’ve never met and take credit for things you had nothing to do with.”

        1. Too bad it’s human nature.

        2. yeah, that sums it up well. On the flip side, progs want white people to feel guilty that other similar-looking people are assholes. Neither is OK.

          1. Wrong. It’s assholes (or turtles) all the way down.

        3. Stanhope is awesome. All this heritage talk is just retarded collectivism that no self-respecting libertarian should encourage.

        4. Yes, better to be some gutless, feckless piece of shit to whom nothing matters. So much better.

    4. As the recent surge of PLAs, ‘Red Pill’ men and MGTOW have shown, consistently demonizing and trying to alienate individuals based on some inherent, inferior characteristic (in this case, maleness) has long term consequences as younger individuals grow up in this culture and are forced to respond to it. And often, given the orthodoxy of their opponents’ position, they do not convert to their way of thinking, instead they embrace it. If you are consistently called a sexist evil bastard, eventually you can just accept that as part of your identity. Or, like the MGTOW, you just refuse to engage these problems and distance yourself. You favour insular tribalism because you just find no benefit in interacting with your opponents.

      The rising popularity of the alt-right amongst the younger internet population is no coincidence. I’ve actually been waiting for a Hegelian dialectic-esque ‘antithesis’ to social justice, and the alt-right seems to be the beginning of it.

      1. It’s not just the rise of the SJWs that gave rise to the alt-right. It was the complete and utter failure of the “conservatives” to actually conserve anything or offer any meaningful resistance to the steady march of the leftists and eventually the SJWs into our universities, our media, and our culture more generally.

          1. “our”

            lol

            300ish million Americans aren’t watching Chinese media, or Iranian media or Tajikstani media. Possessive adjectives don’t always denote outright ownership, sometimes it’s just used to imply shared use, access, exposure or possession.

            lol

            1. Our media sucks!!!

              There shit-loads of stuff I know, that non-Libertarian media (the media-Mafia?) will just NOT tell me about…

            2. 300ish million Americans aren’t watching anything 300ish million non-Americans aren’t also watching. Nice try implying shared use, access, exposure or possession among that many people though.

              1. I don’t get what your argument actually is. That the word “our” can only imply “ownership”? Or that it can only imply something different within a particular range of numbers used as the object in the sentence. In either retarded case, I don’t need to argue with you about it. I can point you to a dictionary that you can ignore and then I can stop wasting effort conversing with the likes of you.

                Yawn is a great handle for you.

          2. Do you prefer “their” as in “those evil crackers”?

            What is wrong with referring to American culture as “ours”?

            It seems to me that you are just hammering home the point made above by colorblindkid. Maybe I am just not understanding your point?

        1. That thought dovetails into why Trump caught fire with many on the right: in the absence of genuine leadership, people will gravitate toward whatever most closely resembles it. When you either berate whites for being white or sit silent while others do so, don’t wet your pants when someone speaks for those being berated.

        2. Considering that I believe progressives to be a form of regressed secularized busybody Protestants, I don’t think you realize that they ARE ‘your’ culture. Progressivism didn’t spring fully formed when Reagan was elected or the 60s happened, it’s been a cultural development for at least a hundred years and can be traced back to American industrialization. It’s part of American culture, it’s not ‘foreign’, own it.

          1. I should clarify that I mean ‘own it’ not in the sense that you’re responsible for progressivism, just that if you’re discussing things in the framework of ‘your’ culture it’s been a long standing shift that is directly a product of American culture.

          2. Considering that I believe progressives to be a form of regressed secularized busybody Protestants

            That is some funny shit right there, also accurate.

          3. Every culture has it’s dark side.

      2. If you are consistently called a sexist evil bastard, eventually you can just accept that as part of your identity.

        That’s true. Even if it weren’t true to begin with, it becomes so. People will identify with the insults thrown at them until they can’t be used as a weapon.

        (*there’s a certain word i’m thinking of but it escapes me at the moment)

        1. Let them see that their words can cut you and you’ll never be free of the mockery. If they want to give you a name take it make it your own. Then they can’t hurt you with it anymore.”

          Not that Martin wouldn’t horrified at the implication that SJW-shame speak could be embraced by its targets, but this is essentially the ultimate response to any form of othering that takes place. Eventually, people learn to accept it and live with it, and when that happens it becomes a weapon in its own right against the shamers.

      3. I keep hearing about this alt-right but I have yet to see this mythical creature. I think it is a creation of the left that only exists in their heads.

        1. The alt-right isn’t an actual thing so much as it’s a moniker used by progressives to describe everyone trolling them. There is no actual alt-right movement.

            1. Ok, they’re a bunch of anti-Jew trolls. The site that you linked to doesn’t really refute what I said, IMO.

              1. No, although they certainly love to be trolls to receive an emotional response, they are sincere in their positions. Jared Taylor is not doing this ‘for the lulz’, Radix and VDare are written as serious platforms for their positions. An old poster here actually used to regularly post articles from Radix about how great Pinochet was and such. They’ve been around since at least the Bush Administration, they aren’t some imaginary concept dreamed up by progressives.

                1. “they aren’t some imaginary concept dreamed up by progressives.”

                  except that no one on the right even knew they existed until the progs started using it as an insult and guilt by association meme.

        2. Vdare and Radix. Read them. They exist, but in small numbers. They will likely grow stronger with time.

          1. Not so vast, maybe quite small, right wing conspiracy?

        3. It’s similar to Manbearpig.

    5. It isn’t just that. The left tends to think very positively about the fact that whites and Christians (not so much men or the cisgendered or whatnot for obvious reasons) are becoming a smaller and smaller portion of society, without considering what it means when a majority of the people in society consists of people that they’ve made no effort to shame into being tolerant (cuz it isn’t racism if they aren’t part of the dominant white power structure or whatever).

    6. Oh so it’s all the left’s fault that you’re a racist asshole.

      1. Yes Tony. Cry racism. Your tiny little squirrel brain cannot fathom anything else.

        Now fuck off.

      2. Agreed. Also homophobic, peter-puffer.

  4. The issue is not immigrants. The issue is that we, as a society, have no real commitment to the principles that made America what it is, individual rights and limited government. Instead, we’re all just arguing over who gets the spoils.

    1. America’s not a ‘white, European’ country. It’s a nation built on ideas, not race & soil. Nativists don’t grasp

      And mass immigration from places with no tradition of similar ideas born out of the European enlightenment swamps these ideas and renders them inoperable.

      1. They couldn’t swamp those ideas if we didn’t already have a large contingent of the home-grown populace that was already opposed to those ideas.

        1. Of course, they just turn the native contingent into a majority and make it impossible to ever correct the situation.

        2. ^This. There aren’t enough people native to this country who can adequately explain to our new friends how this country is supposed to work because they have no clue themselves. It’s mostly just “speak our language asshole” and “why does your food smell funny” rather than “hey, do you understand why we have the system of checks and balances that we have?”

          1. “hey, do you understand why we have the system of checks and balances that we have?”

            “It’s because America is racist against its First Black President.”

          2. Any such lesson would quickly segue into the evils of slavery in today’s education system. Now let’s go purge some statues and names from places.

      2. Er…no. If you want to look the same damned bullshit was tossed around about Italians, Jews, and pretty much anyone else from the “wrong” areas of Europe.

        They assimilated and bought into those ideas just fine.

        The only problem today is that it’s not clear to me that Americans are willing to accept the principles and ideas of the Enlightenment.

        1. There is no longer any pressure to assimilate. Unlike the Italians, Jews, Irish, etc., current immigrants are encouraged to resist assimilation by “multiculturalism” while the nation is expected to adjust to them and enable them with government programs and documents provided in their native language and access to a vast welfare state. So really not a similar situation at all to previous mass immigration, where they had to learn the language and assimilate to American culture in order to provide for themselves and survive.

          1. And in past bouts of mass immigration it was European immigrants moving to a primarily European derived country. Those people could be assimilated within a generation or two.

          2. But what should they be assimilating to?? If a majority of people already here have forgotten what really made America “great,” what do you think these immigrants are assimilating into? Progressive bullshit is the answer.

            1. But what should they be assimilating to??

              Ideally, whatever the economy deems most advantageous to assimilate to, as opposed to whatever they feel like assimilating into (or not) because of an incentive perverting welfare state.

          3. An example where assimilation didn’t occur fast enough. Not a lot of time is spent on the impact 1848’ers had on shaping the US as it is today. The Socialist Welfare State traces all the way back to the forces in play as far back as the 1850’s, and the flood of immigrants and their ideals. We’re still paying a handsome price today.

        2. Again, people who compare pre welfare state immigration to today’s situation are being willfully obtuse. 100 years ago you came here and got a job or died, or relied on voluntary charity from family, friends or a church.

          1. Not only is all this correct, but dishonest slimebags like Nick Gillespie are just flat out lying whenever they imply that back then we had a wide open door that pretty much anyone could walk through, with no questions asked.

            Ellis Island wasn’t just a place with a statue on it, it was an inspection station. Unlike today where is really no vetting process whatsoever, people coming in back then had to go through a fairly rigorous screening process and examination before they were allowed in, and in fact a lot of people would get rejected and sent back for various reasons.

            1. Or would return on their own because they weren’t subsidized and couldn’t integrate into the economy for one reason or another.

          2. There is a difference, but I don’t think it’s as huge as you suggest. Immigrants still come here to work for the most part.

            It might help if the only political party that didn’t treat them like shit wasn’t the one making a big swing to the left.

            1. Most of them do come here to work. However, enough of a couple of groups do not, either glomming onto the welfare state or being criminals, enough of them for others to notice. The welfare state part is not going to go away, no matter how much the Nicks want to ignore it.

              There was no safety net for the first massive wave of immigrants; they figured it out. What’s bigoted is assuming that, for some reason, Hispanics can’t do the same thing.

              1. Is it bigoted to observe that they don’t do the same thing? 4th generation Mexican Americans have some pretty dismal stats.

            2. And people come here to work, who in the absence of the welfare state and in the presence of relatively high cost of living, could very often not afford to live and work here with their limited skill set. Meaning the welfare state diminishes the overall quality of immigrants that we receive, artificially lowers wages for low wage work and makes more leftists in the process.

          3. 100+ years ago ots of immigrants returned to their homeland after finding out how hard it was to live in the United States.

    2. Yeah, you nailed it. I get angry sometimes when healthy people I know are collecting disability, sec 8 housing subsidies, ebt cards, free phones, free transportation subsidies, free college….
      I don’t want to be like them, just that I feel like a sucker.

      1. I have an old high school friend who got super high ACT/SAT scores, went to University of Michigan, and ended up dropping out because of a heroin addiction. His parents are wealthy, as in income and also “old” family money. After a few years he went on the methadone program and is clean once again. He had a few jobs but never really anything you would call a career.

        Now my friend is unemployed, living on disability (anxiety), gets free medical and dental care, and is living in a high $$ condo that his parents bought for him. He spends his days buying records, listening to music, and watching television. He hasn’t had a job for over ten years – even though he used to be a manager at a few different retail locations. He’s just given up – and now we get to pay for his new lifestyle.

        1. Anxiety?! I’m not even going to ask how that’s a “disability”.

          1. Well, there’s anxiety and there’s anxiety. I could see frequent panic attacks being a legitimate disability. But that should be treatable for most people.

            1. Hard to treat someone who’s already an addict with Xanax

              1. Easy. Increase the dose of Xanax by about 20 times.

                1. I don’t mean the drug will be ineffective, I mean they’ll abuse it.

                  Unless you were suggesting an OD

          2. I’ve had anxiety the past year or so, mostly from economic uncertainty but I doubt that “I am one of those older folks – too young to retire for old enough to be the hiring manager’s dad – that would like something a bit better than what I’m doing” qualifies for a subsidy.

            1. I have anxiety issues, to put it mildly. Im the only person I’ve heard of who takes xanax in the morning before going out to work, rather than before bed.

        2. Your old high school friend still sells you weed, right?

  5. No issues with anybody coming here if they pay their own way, support themselves on their own dime, and don’t belong to a religion that wants to kill non believers, satirists and gays, and treats women like cattle.

    1. And assimilate to the traditions of unalienable rights and freedoms the country was founded on, rather than enhancing the constituency for more government and more free shit.

    2. Turns out, when immigrants pay their own way, you get the best of them, as opposed to when tax payers pay their way and you get the worst of them. Before the welfare state, up to 2/3rds of immigrants returned to their home country because they couldn’t make it for one reason or another. A high emigration rate among recent immigrants is a sign of a healthy immigration policy.

      1. A high emigration rate among recent immigrants is a sign of a healthy immigration policy.

        It could also be a sign of a shitty ecomony.

        1. As I recall, when the economy was really bad, a lot of immigrants were leaving.

        2. If you assume that ‘economy’ is the reason for their move. For most third world migrants, the economy only matters insofar as the welfare state can feed off of it like a parasite. Advanced first world economies offer little to uneducated, unskilled third worlders that are illiterate in their own language, relative to what the welfare state offers them.

      2. “healthy immigration policy”

        Healthy policy? Scratch a Libertarian and the social engineer pops out.

        1. So opposition to social engineering, is social engineering. Got it.

          1. Who lit the signal fire?

          2. Crafting ‘healthy’ policy is most certainly social engineering. Whether you recognize the fact or not is immaterial.

        2. If you really want a “libertarian”-based society, you can’t have immigrants who care nothing about libertarianism and are in fact inimical to it swamping the ballot box to vote in favor of statist polices. This is the dilemma for libertarians with regard to immigration. If you have highly relaxed immigration standards, you get a society that does not want libertarian policies implemented, so you are shooting yourself in the foot. Anyone that really wants a libertarian society must also want immigration policies that promote the creation of a populace that subscribes to libertarian ideology. How to do this, if it even could be done, is a different issue.

          1. “If you really want a “libertarian”-based society, you can’t have immigrants who care nothing about libertarianism and are in fact inimical to it swamping the ballot box to vote in favor of statist polices. This is the dilemma for libertarians with regard to immigration.”

            There are over 300 million Americans. They are overwhelmingly non-immigrants and they do not favour Libertarian policies. Immigrants, regardless of their stance on immigration, are not going to ‘swamp’ the native born at the ballot box.

            “Anyone that really wants a libertarian society must also want immigration policies that promote the creation of a populace that subscribes to libertarian ideology.”

            Scratch a Libertarian and the social engineer pops out.

  6. I’m not so sure, especially if economic growth continues to snail-pace along at less than 2 percent a year. That sort of anemic expansion …?makes us all crabs in a pot that seems to be getting smaller all the time.

    So as we are destined for presumably forever to advance at this pace and the government will always attempt to distribute the spoils amongst the different ethnic groups that keep it in power, will not inevitably ethnic strife increase in the US?

    Or will at some point this be self-correcting and immigrants will cease coming in appreciable numbers to the United States as it is a less viable country to move to?

    1. Well at that point it will just be another third world shithole anyway.

  7. Why is Uncle Sam wearing a red bra, and particularly why is it on the outside of his suit?

    1. Because America has never been a “cis” country.

    2. That’s not a red bra, it’s his bare-naked-assed titties!

      They are red ’cause they’ve become darned well irritated by endless hordes of native-borns whose suck them hard and suck them dry, then bemoan that ferriners come here to do the jerbs that they won’t do…

  8. America has never been a “white” country.

    Wait, wait, wait… all this time rethuglikkkans have been oppressing every minority under the sun and we’ve marched the CRA ever forward on the basis of the fact that White, Christian, ne’er-do-wells are rabidly to a racist edition of Pok?mon Go? When, in fact, they weren’t exactly white and weren’t exactly Christian? Why, that means that, all this time, when I’ve been blaming society for holding me down and voting Democrat to change the system it was really me and my fellow blind Democratic voting blocks holding us down! All this time, I’ve been dismissing Jefferson because he owned slaves when, in reality, his points were cogent without slavery.

    I don’t expect anyone on either side to believe that America has never been a “white” country. Maybe right before the libertarian rapture.

    1. Addicted… rabidly addicted.

  9. In summary, if you want to control the number and origin of immigrants let in to the country you want to mass-lynch Chinese immigrants. Also, you’re Adam Lanza.

    1. And if we want to restrict Chinese immigration, we would need another wall. Because the Pacific Ocean obviously isn’t enough of a barrier if we feel like controlling ports of entry.

    2. Well it’s kind of novel at least. As opposed to all the comparisons to you know who.

  10. from god-forsaken southern Italy (a very distinct place than practically Austrian/French/Swiss and hence semi-legitimate northern Italy)

    Well isn’t this the way that actual Italians view their country? ;-P

  11. Nick just made 90%+ of that up.

    1. There was an awful lot of putting words in other people’s mouths, wasn’t there.

    2. He didn’t make it up, but he sure as hell cherry-picked the fuck out of events in order to avoid any context.

      Nevermind that the Second Opium War ended and the Western Nations were enacting the ‘Unequal Treaties’ to kick off China’s ‘Century of Humiliation’. Those details have no bearing on our current political situation and couldn’t possibly contain a broader libertarian message.

      What’s important is some not-white people, at one point, were racist and killed some Chinese immigrants out of hatred. And that you remember minor lynchings are more important than other, larger and more numerous massacres, because feelings and stuff.

  12. America has never been a “white” country.

    Like when Lincoln wanted to return the slaves to Africa?

    1. See? Not white.

    2. Liberia has never been a “white” country.

    3. Thank god the slaves had other ideas.

    4. And when it wasn’t even possible for non-whites to be citizens. Sounds like a white country.

    5. Fortunately, we have wise leaders who finally understood that blacks were too incompetent to actually have and be able to run a country of their own.

      1. “Fortunately, we have wise leaders who finally understood that blacks were too incompetent ”

        Black incompetence had nothing to do with it. Whites like Lincoln wanted to pack the blacks off to Africa. Blacks wanted nothing to do with the idea and were happy to stay put.

  13. America has never been a “white” country. Economic and cultural nativism is on the rise – and the most un-American idea of all.

    So America has never been a country built by, primarily composed, run by and favoring people of European descent. And that makes perfect sense because once upon a time Irish people were not considered white by some racialists.

    1. +1 No Irish allowed

      and that idea has stood the test of time 😉

  14. Airlines Employees say it’s NOT Isreal; It’s PALESTINE!
    OT Post: See http://observer.com/2016/09/fl…..rd-israel/ ?

    Israel is Palestine now, OK…

    Next, they will not want to recognize the European colonization of the Americas, and the term “Native Americas” still recognizes the European name of the Italian name of the map-maker, Amerigo Vespichis or some such… So “Native Americans States” wouldn’t cut it, either… There is no native American term for ALL of the tribes… The best we can do is, they are all “Indians”…

    Welcome to the United States of Indians, travelers!!!!

  15. “Will We Build a Wall Against Chinese Immigrants, Too?”

    God didn’t already do that for us?

    1. World’s largest moat

    2. IIRC, the Chinese already built their own wall.

  16. I would pay asian girls to come here.

    1. My wife is Chinese. Be careful what you ask for.

  17. “One of the great achievements of the 20th century (for my family, at least) was that my parents, born of Italian parents on side and Irish immigrants on the other, emerged as fully white and American within 40 or 50 years of being born. It only took suffering through the Depression, really, and supplying infantry members in World War II and Korea. Certainly, by the early 1970s (when the foreign-born population was at a historic low), nobody was questioning whether micks and wops didn’t belong; the same went for Jews, whether they came originally from Germany, Poland, Russia, or wherever.”

    Is this a joke? Ignoring the greater question of whether Irish and Italians ever really became “American” or if America became something different because of them, all it took to assimilate was a pause in immigration, economic depression, and war to achieve assimilation?

  18. The Chinaman is not the issue here.

    1. Somewhere online I found a hilarious old-timey article about how “you can’t tell them apart”. It was in the NY Times.

      1. And the were talking about the Irish!

  19. ‘ undocumented immigrants ‘

  20. “They were Chinese, and they were murdered by a mob, nearly 500 strong, that included some of the city’s leading citizens.”

    Weren’t 38 Dakota Indians lynched by Lincoln?

    1. And didn’t the Chinese lynch the fuck out of foreigners during the Boxer Uprising? I’m sure Nick is gonna hold their feet to the fire for that.

    2. I can only assume that the Germans massacred in the Nueces Massacre weren’t white.

  21. The fact that Nick points out his Italian heritage so often is enough for me to say assimilation has largely been a failure.

    I might be a bit biased.

  22. I’m not taking a policy position, but Nick does a fine job of blurring legal and illegal immigration in this post.

    1. Unintentionally, surely

  23. Fuck it, Reason’s line is obviously correct. Every person on Earth should be allowed to come to the US and live as they see fit. I can’t think of a single reasonable excuse for why my wealth and property shouldn’t be redistributed to those that obviously need it more.

    The good news is, since assimilation has been overridden by cultural appropriation we don’t need to even try to be American anymore. Hopefully this will lead to the dissolution of the USA. Several grand new countries will surely rise from the bones, the United Negro States, the United Hispanic States, the United Muslim States, the United Gay States (trannies will probably get there own little plot here), and etc. The original Native Americans can be run up to Canada where they will either adapt or die, because fuck them anyway. All current residents of the USA (except the Indians because fuck them) will have to choose how to sort themselves amongst the new countries.

    1. As long as I can move to Thailand and Burma after they’ve all moved here.

      1. You can’t go to Burma, but you can go to Myanmar.

    2. “The good news is, since assimilation has been overridden by cultural appropriation we don’t need to even try to be American anymore.”

      Americans have never been as keen on assimilation as they say they. Blacks for example have been living in America for some 500 years, about as long as Whites. They were unassimilated then, and remain unassimilated today.

      ” we don’t need to even try to be American anymore.”

      And we don’t give a fuck.

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  26. Purely anecdotal:

    So my grandparents were refused access into the United States in 1937. Note that this was done in the entirely legal fashion of the period, but they were still refused. I don’t take it personally, my grandparents didn’t take it personally, hell we don’t even really know why they were refused. Then in 1939 this guy called Hitler invaded their country and they lost in a week. Spent five years under Nazi rule, it was miserable and they lost everything, livestock, farm, vehicle, everything. 1944 rolls around, and suddenly they’re freed by these odd men called Canadians from overseas. Seemed like a good sort, so when the war’s over, the economy’s in the shitter, and after my grandfather was drafted to go kill Indonesians, they apply and are accepted as immigrants to Canada.

    I still have copies of their immigration papers. My grandparents came here, learned English, Anglicized their last name, and in one generation their children were English Canadians. My grandparents went through hell in the home country, and when they were given the chance in a better land, they assimilated, praised it and contributed to it. They didn’t come to Canada for a handout, they came to Canada for Lockian land ownership and productivity.

    1. So forgive me if I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Nick’s shitty “you want to lynch the chinks if you believe in any kind of immigration controls or that the current culture is having a negative effect on immigration” argument. I don’t doubt that there’s plenty of people immigrating for the same reasons of the past (I’ve met them, but Canada’s immigration system is different to the United States) but I’ve also been exposed to plenty of issues in the modern immigrant culture that are reflective of problems that simply didn’t exist in my grandparent’s generation.

      1. I see a lot of extreme positions on this issue. “They all” do this, “they all” want that. Well, no – they don’t “all” behave the same way. I see a little of everything where I live – from handouts to hard workers.

        1. Some of the hardest working, most libertarian people I’ve ever met are from Angola, Nigeria and Cameroon. They’re here to work for themselves and their families and they hate the very idea of coming over here for a handout. Their only complaint tends to be that the country isn’t Christian enough.

          But I’ve also been in a Canadian ‘Little Haiti’, a public housing district absolutely rife with poverty, and a lot of it does just simply have to do with the fact that many of those guys just don’t want to work or have no interest interacting with anyone out in the broader culture. And these problems aren’t necessarily just a part of immigrant culture, the ‘white people’ public housing isn’t much better.

          1. It almost sounds like you are saying that different cultures have different work ethics and world views making some more productive and successful and some counterproductive and parasitical. Some producing desirable immigrants and others should be avoided like the plague.

            You racist.

            1. “It almost sounds like you are saying that different cultures have different work ethics and world views making some more productive and successful and some counterproductive and parasitical. Some producing desirable immigrants and others should be avoided like the plague.

              You racist.”

              You are correct. This is the racist formulation. A non racist would claim instead that “… different individuals have different work ethics…” Racism is judging people by the groups to which they are arbitrarily assigned. The non racist eschews such rash judgements.

    2. drafted to go kill Indonesians

      Dutch?

      This is a very interesting book. though admittedly pretty dense.

      1. Yep. Opa drove around Indonesia in a repurposed Bren carrier from the 30s. By the end of the whole affair he was rather happy to leave.

        Dense is good, I’ll check it out.

  27. From the days when assimilation was assimiliation.

    1. I’m disappointed. I was expecting a “Borg” reference.

  28. “There’s always room for more of everything in a country that has barely gotten started.”

    ‘Room for’ does not mean we should have it. Not everything is desirable to have. Sometimes room itself is more desirable than filling it with…whatever.

    Y’all lost me when you started the ‘widows and orphans’ bullshit appeal to emotion. It was pure dishonesty and told me that your argument is shit.

    I am googling around and I cant find a single incidence of chinese immigrants in the 19th century randomly massacring people. I also cant find a single example of whitey massacring muslims in the US in the 20th/21st century.

    Aside from false equivalence I don’t see the point.

  29. Nick says we are a nation of ideas.

    Then refuses to acknowledge that different cultures have different ideas, and sees nothing in an immigrant but their race.

    If you want to be an open border nitwit, make the argument that there is no difference in ideas between pakistanis and Chinese and Norwegians

    1. This is the heart of it.

      It is an absolute false equivalence to compare immigrations from the past with what is going on today, and worse to conflate legal with illegal immigration. The ‘widows and orphans’ canard is just the cherry on top. The more they argue for open borders the worse they begin to look.

      1. Do you seriously think anyone believes you have a point other than “those immigrants were white, and thus good, and today’s are brown, and thus bad”?

        1. I don’t want to be grouped with libertarians here, but I wish they’d start saying that, because maybe then I’d support them again. Right now we’ve all got to pretend we value having Somalians and Germans the same, but the fact of the matter is some groups of people are much, much better than others. They are better as neighbors, as workers, their beliefs are more congruent with the ones we value here, they are just all around better immigrants.

          Instead, they pull this bullshit where they say America is a nation of immigrants, and therefore everyone that doesn’t value our African and Arab immigrant friends is anti American or some other nonsense, but they completely ignore who those immigrants in the past were, and the economic circumstances under which they came and what they faced when they got here.

    2. “Then refuses to acknowledge that different cultures have different ideas, and sees nothing in an immigrant but their race.”

      Cultures don’t have ideas. People do.

      1. Seems that the current right-libertarian excuse for strict immigration laws is that all the people coming in have the wrong thoughts.

      2. Cultures are ideas, “have” in this case refers to including, not believing.

  30. Nick,
    Keep thinking Open Borders is a libertarian tenet. It’s cute.
    FYI my Irish/German/Scottish/Dutch ancestors were all legal immigrants, the Irish/Scottish ones even “volunteered” into service in the Civil War(North, woo-hoo we won even though it was un-Constitutional). My ancestors assimilated into America and reaped the rewards. Illegal immigrants and those who have no desire for the American Dream are not welcome. All others that do want to be American and all that it stands for are welcome in my opinion.
    You and other writers like you will continue to push the nativists into harsher stances and wonder why for eternity. Good job.

    1. If we had the same immigration laws that were in effect when your Irish/German/Scottish/Dutch ancestors came over all the Mexicans et al would be legal immigrants too.

  31. You want to meet some successful, hardworking, racist, xenophobic people who have no time whatsoever for white guilt? Or non-Chinese people of any kind?

    Visit a majority Chinese neighborhood in America.

    1. They are a close knit community.

    2. “You want to meet some successful, hardworking, racist, xenophobic people who have no time whatsoever for white guilt? ”

      You should broaden your exposure to people of the splendid yellow race. Try visiting China. They don’t harbour white guilt, but perversely save it up for Japanese guilt. The Koreans, much the same.

      1. Seems that the current right-libertarian excuse for strict immigration laws is that all the people coming in have the wrong thoughts.

  32. “Hell, in the days after the 9/11 attacks, even blacks were “white” for a while, because we were all united against Arabs or Muslims (and maybe Sikhs, because they seemed like kind of the same thing and people still aren’t making clear distinctions between nationalities and religion).”

    Speak for yourself. I am “white” and I was not united against any group of people except the Taliban.

  33. It’s interesting in the Libertarian view, a nation can NEVER be a world’s police, but it has a moral imperative to be world’s orphanage.

    There are enough foreigners and immigrants in this country to fill a mid sized nation. There are more immigrants in this country than the entire population of Canada. The “nativists” in this country are already more welcoming or at least tolerant of immigration than 90% of the world. They’re speaking from a situation that simply doesn’t exist in most of Europe and Asia.

    Liberty and prosperity doesn’t solely depend on “diversity”. Rather, it attracts diversity. America didn’t have any “diversify our nation” programs. The immigrants came to here because it was a developing superpower and because it was far removed from war and famine that ravaged the eastern part of the world.

    Of course protectionism is bad news. But before now, this was good old fashioned progressive policy supported by minorities and immigrants. Unions are essentially democrat operatives and they stood against competition for decades. You would think democrats wouldn’t mind a business opening up factories or merging inside Mexico, where 100% of the workers would be…… non white Mexicans, but they do.

    Race and immigration just hijacks the political discourse in America. And what’s “racist” or “nativist” turns on popular narrative and perspective.

    1. “Race and immigration just hijacks the political discourse in America.”

      Race is political discourse in America. In similarly developed nations it’s about class.

  34. I think this article is going probably going to signal the end of my association with libertarianism.

    What do you mean America has never been a white country? Do you mean demographically? It’s been ~90% white for the majority of its history, with the remaining percentage being slaves and their descendants that were involuntarily and unjustly brought here, but the remaining demographic wasn’t due to voluntary movement and the willingness of those already here to let them in. The change to a country of all races and all peoples is a recent one, it’s an anomaly when looking at the history of the nation.

    Do you mean based on its founding? The founders would’ve all been considered virulent racists by today’s standards, many of them owned slaves. There was specific legislation crafted to keep the nation white, that was the intention of the laws made by the lawmakers. It was a nation based on the ideals of liberty, but it was for whites. Read what the founders actually believed about race, this isn’t a mystery.

    Why are you so afraid to tell the truth? Is that what libertarianism is about these days, pandering to liberal fantasies? Yes, it was intended to be a white nation by the people that founded it, and you can disagree with that vision, but it doesn’t change the historical fact.

    Why are you ignoring the economic circumstances under which previous mass migrations took place?

    1. Aren’t libertarians supposed to understand how incentives shape our choices? Why don’t you care about the fact that previous mass migration was done with the understanding that there was no guarantee you would make it once you got here? Doesn’t this change in the incentive structure make you rethink the issue at all?

      Why do you not care about biological and cultural differences between different peoples? Do you really think if we took in a million Germans over the next year, the results would be no different than if we took in a million Somalians? Doesn’t the fact that your parents never learned to speak english give you a little skepticism about the ability of people to assimilate to different cultures?

      If America is just a set of ideas, how well have they been preserved? Do you believe they ought to be preserved? Can free speech be preserved if you have a nation of people that don’t believe in free speech? If these ideas are done away with, in what sense is it still America?

      Do the people that pay taxes have a right to exclude whoever they please from entering the nation? Isn’t it justified to exclude people that hate you, given that they can make a living at your expense via government wealth transfer? Are US citizens expected to turn their head when their government, which gets its funding from the people, invites people to the US that hate the current citizens, and uses the current citizens’ money to feed, house, and educate the people that hate them?

  35. ” At its best, America is always something new and constantly changing, becoming, one hopes, ever-more inclusive and expansive.”

    I want to live in Gillespie’s American unity ?my America has become polarized into self segregated, intolerant, stereotype besotted racists, using color differences and history lessons as an excuse to hate each other, instead of the Democrat Party’s election platform of tax funded, politically enforced, white discriminating, minority favoring affirmative action, multiculturalism and the diversity scam.

    My America is also infested with racists insisting that only the self segregated bigots of white nationalism are causing this nationwide spectacle of racial hostility, spewing from every color of bigot, while the racial profiteers of D.C. actually polarizing the country into hate fueled enemies with their platform of bigot vote buying minority favoring, white exclusion are all about “inclusion.”

  36. Interesting and well thought out until here;

    “I’m not so sure, especially if economic growth continues to snail-pace along at less than 2 percent a year. ”

    Problem is quantity vs. quality …

    The world economy requires 1.6 Earths. If every one on Earth lived like the US, the world economy would require 4.8 Earths ? 5.4 Earths if we all lived like Australians. With this in mind; imagine a world economy that grows to match the US. Imagine every working age person on the planet as busy 40 hours a week making updated iGizmos to keep their company sales growth on target.

    Growth becomes counterproductive somewhere below a one Earth consumption and pollution rate. Some of us passed that level many years ago.

    Chinese certainly have become honorary whites in the Earth destruction category.

  37. Interesting and well thought out until here;

    “I’m not so sure, especially if economic growth continues to snail-pace along at less than 2 percent a year. ”

    Problem is quantity vs. quality …

    The world economy requires 1.6 Earths. If every one on Earth lived like the US, the world economy would require 4.8 Earths ? 5.4 Earths if we all lived like Australians. With this in mind; imagine a world economy that grows to match the US. Imagine every working age person on the planet as busy 40 hours a week making updated iGizmos to keep their company sales growth on target.

    Growth becomes counterproductive somewhere below a one Earth consumption and pollution rate. Some of us passed that level many years ago.

    Chinese certainly have become honorary whites in the Earth destruction category.

    1. “Chinese certainly have become honorary whites in the Earth destruction category.”

      Nonsense. The Chinese have far surpassed the whites.

  38. Killer Klowns from Outer Space 2, surely

  39. As a white male, I say bring on the Asian immigrants! I don’t believe in open borders as a concept. In the real world, with the vast differences between societies and nations, there’s simply too much difference to make it work without major problems arising. Ditch the welfare state and anxiety would ease a bit, but still be there for various reasons.

    The 21st century doesn’t need strong backs, but strong minds. There are going to be fewer and fewer menial jobs. This is why I say fuck uneducated immigrants from 3rd world countries. We have more low skill workers than we can support in this country already.

    Let in unlimited skilled workers who want to become citizens. Perhaps not so much for temp work situations as they really can kind of be “pillaging” jobs/income from Americans, but if they’re here to stay who cares if a better Indian programmer snakes a native born white guy. They’re here for the long haul, so they are American now. Ultimately this will enable more unskilled jobs to come into existence.

    1. Asians have a cultural heritage that encourages educational achievement. Many other cultures from 3rd world countries do not. Their real world outcomes in America already prove this when you look at the statistics.

      That’s not to say Ethiopians or Bolivians coming here or whatever aren’t going to have any kids who study IT related stuff in college or whatever, but the statistics clearly show Asians clean house on this shit. It’s just logical to limit immigrants to people who have a realistic chance of actually being useful in society, vs more unneeded illiterate janitors that there aren’t jobs for.

      So if an Asian IT guy wants to move here, awesome. Indian doctor? Sure. German high school drop out? No. It shouldn’t be race/nationality, but utility. We’ll not let some good people in this way, but we’ll surely do better on average.

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