Gary Johnson

Why Gary Johnson Opposes Hate-Crime Laws (and You Should Too)

If I throw a rock through your window, said Johnson, "I should be prosecuted on throwing the rock, not my thoughts that motivated me throwing the rock."

|

Paul Hennessy/Polaris/Newscom

While making a campaign stop in Miami this week, Gary Johnson and running-mate William Weld talked to staff at Fusion, the Hispanic television-station turned multi-pronged millennial media factory. In a write-up of the event, Fusion contributor Andrew Joyce focused on Johnson's rejection of hate-crime legislation—something he vetoed as governor of New Mexico.

"You're talking about me throwing a rock through someone's window," Johnson told Fusion reporters, "I should be prosecuted on throwing the rock, not my thoughts that motivated me throwing the rock through that window."

Joyce isn't convinced by Johnson's answer, which he sums up as asserting "that hate crime legislation constitutes some kind of Orwellian thought policing." But that misstates Johnson's position, making it sound like the Libertarian candidate's opposition is some sort of alt-right, anti-PC paranoia. The problem isn't that hate-crime laws punish people for merely thinking hateful thoughts or holding unpopular beliefs—they don't—it's that they empower the carceral state.

It's also silly to say (as Joyce does) that we punish manslaughter differently than murder based on a person's motivation and hate-crime laws are no different. With the former charges, the motivational difference is the difference between intentionally taking someone's life and doing so accidently or through negligence, not a matter of arbitrarily deciding some criminal intentions are worse than others.

The logic of hate-crime laws, meanwhile, says that while many murders, assaults, rapes, acts of vandalism, and other crimes are committed out of rage and hatred, it's only a narrow type of rage and hatred that deserves extra opproprium—and punishment. A hate crime enhancement can lift misdemeanors into felony territory and potentially double prison sentences.

All of this might make social-justice advocates feel good, but it serves little public-safety purpose. People who commit the kinds of crimes we define as hate crimes, whether calculatedly or spur-of-the-moment, aren't bound by rational thinking—they're not going to be deterred by the fact that their particular bias could, if caught and convicted, add additional time to a theoretical sentence. There's similarly little evidence that extra severe sentencing somehow benefits "hateful" offenders more than offenders of other varieties, thereby facilitating a rehabilitative function.

So what remains as a justification? Vengeance.

And in this way—pushing for punitive sentencing enhancements that serve no deterrent or rehabilitative role—modern progressives fall prey to an all-too-common hypocrisy on criminal justice. That is, their stated preference for sentencing reform, ending mass incarceration, and being "intersectional" in analysis of social and civil issues comes in conflict with their demands for ever more and tougher criminal penalties and a willingness to trust police and prosecutors—the same "public servants" so readily demonized in other contexts—to use their expanded tool-sets for good. But what we've already seen with hate crime laws (and hate speech laws in countries that have them) is that people in power will always use these tools in ways that serve power.

In one early hate-crime case, in 1991, Florida police officers tried to enhance penalties on a man charged with domestic violence because he called the officer arresting him a "cracker." More recently, places like New York City and Louisiana have been pushing to include police as their own protected category within in hate-crime statutes. These "Blue Lives Matter" measures have "always been the unavoidable endpoint of [hate crime] laws," writes Hamilton Nolan at Gawker. "Eventually, every single sub-group of people will have their own hate crime law."

As Nolan shows, it's not just libertarians (or any one side) critical of hate crime laws. Perhaps Gary Johnson didn't do the most eloquent job of explaining his objections to Fusion (Johnson's strong suit certainly isn't giving concise off-the-cuff answers), but it's simply wrong to suggest his opposition is rooted in some sort of libertarian quirk or an immature rejection of political correctness. Scholars, activists, and politicians of all ideological stripes have raised legitimate concerns about not just the efficacy of hate-crime laws but their potential for unintended consequences.

"Seeking another pound of flesh has us veering toward vengeance rather than justice," wrote longtime gay activist Bill Dobbs in 2013. "While racism and homophobia, for example, are deplorable prejudices, social problems cannot be solved with more prison time."

New York University law professor James B. Jacobs concurs: "Sending more people to prison for longer is hardly likely to contribute to a more tolerant society. To the contrary, jails and prisons are breeding ground for hate groups."

"The term 'hate crime laws' is commonplace, but people often do not understand the intent or ramifications of such laws," noted a 2013 piece in The Nation.

Many Americans simply accept the unproven assumption that these laws act as a deterrent. Wade Henderson,president of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, states, 'We recognize we cannot outlaw hate. However, laws shape attitudes. And attitudes influence behavior.' He is correct. Laws do shape attitudes. But our legal system does not write laws to shape attitudes; it writes them to justly and fairly punish explicit behaviors. […] The place to change social attitudes, hearts, and minds is not in prisons.

Hate-crime laws may make us feel good about doing something, said Harvard Media Studies Professor Michael Bronski, co-author of Considering Hate: Violence, Goodness, and Justice in American Culture and Politics," in a 2015 NPR interview. But this comes at the cost of ignoring the root causes of social issues. Bronski also cautioned that hate-crime laws are selectively enforced.

"In any case that involves a slur or an element of bigotry, prosecutors can choose to bring hate-crime charges, automatically boosting the penalty that the defendant might face," noted Jacob Sullum back in 1992. And as with all such situations calling for prosecutorial discretion, there's ample room for abuse, as prosecutors wield hate-crime enhancements to coerce deals from defendants or satisfy public bloodthirstiness.

"Hate-crime laws can give prosecutors added leverage in plea bargaining, whether or not the charges would stand up in court," Sullum wrote.

Rather than cheering hate-crime measures (or jeering politicians, like Johnson, who critique them), we should focus on making the laws and justice-system we do have work more equitably for everyone. As Nolan wrote at Gawker, "That is a far thornier and more useful task than watching grandstanding politicians of all political persuasions crank up penalties on specific crimes for purely demonstrative reasons. You would think that after incarcerating two million people we would be skeptical of such remedies, but apparently not yet."

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

191 responses to “Why Gary Johnson Opposes Hate-Crime Laws (and You Should Too)

  1. Well, at least you can call the Nazi a scumbag while you’re forced to bake his cake.

    It’s something, I guess?

    1. Anybody can earn 450$+ daily… You can earn from 9000-14000 a month or even more if you work as a full time job…It’s easy, just follow instructions on this page, read it carefully from start to finish… It’s a flexible job but a good eaning opportunity.. go to this site home tab for more detail… http://bit.do/ctDjs

    2. Anybody can earn 450$+ daily… You can earn from 9000-14000 a month or even more if you work as a full time job…It’s easy, just follow instructions on this page, read it carefully from start to finish… It’s a flexible job but a good eaning opportunity.. go to this site home tab for more detail… http://bit.do/ctDjs

    3. Hey wait a minute here…

      If I am a cake-baker, I ***MUST*** take money from the NAZI and bake him a cake if he wants to pay for one, else I am a hate-criminal…

      Yet if I am a politician, I can NOT take money from the NAZI who wants me to vote NAZI for him, but I can take money from the Bernie supporters and vote to nationalize everything… If I take the money of the NAZI in this case, I am a hate criminal, right?

      Why this double standard? One standard for politicians, a totally 180-out standard for the rest of us? Why, Santa, why?

      1. So how long till a NAZI gloats victoriously after a cake-baker refuses to bake a NAZI cake for him… And he wins in court… Then said NAZI will move on to sue the politician who wouldn’t even take his NAZI bribes, OOOOOps, I mean, campaign contributions? What should I do as a juror, if I am selected for jury duty, in the latter case? This is going to keep my up sleepless tonight!!!! Please advise ASAP!!!!

        1. You know, I was actually thinking about getting into the cake-baking business? But now I am thinking, “A NAZI comes to me, he says, “Bake me a cake, it says, in yummy chocolate frosting, “I am a NAZI and I want to kill the POTUS””?
          Now if I do ***NOT*** bake him his cake, I am an anti-NAZI hater, and must be punished, but if I ***DO*** bake him a cake, I have threatened the Emperor-God, which is ALSO a hate crime.
          I guess I will need an army of lawyers on-staff to advise me, and charge like $1 million per cake, and hope and pray I can make a “go” of the business, and NOT go to jail?

  2. This is one of those topics that is too obvious for right thinking people to put any critical thought into. Anyone who opposes hate crime legislation is a neanderthal END OF STORY.

    1. Thank you

    2. Any member of an oppressed identity group who opposes hate-crime laws is self-loathing.

    3. In a world of H. sapiens sapiens, would Neanderthals be considered a protected minority?

      1. Wouldn’t that put white people on top of the progressive stack?

  3. But if I run a business and refuse you service, the government should totally have the power to punish me for the thoughts that motivated me for refusing you.

    It’s funny to me that we have a protest candidate who can’t even coherently outline his positions. Some people try to argue Johnson opposes repealing accommodation laws as its a losing battle. Long lost, really. But yet he’s out here saying hate crimes are redundant…and who is he going to win over there?

    It tells me we have a guy who really doesn’t understand libertarian principles. Or at least someone who can’t connect them to policies.

    1. I dunno. It tells me that this is a guy who saw Rand Paul get crucified when he tried to stake out a nuanced third position.

      1. He won that election handily.

        1. Yes he did – and he got tagged with the “evil racist” label, no matter whatever else he’s done since.

          1. So he’s hated by morons, but not enough to keep him from getting elected. Terrifying.

            1. So he’s hated by morons, but not enough to keep him from getting elected.

              While you had your head up your ass, he got CRUSHED for the Presidency.
              But your puppetmasters blame it on a conspiracy, and the cult nods like bobbleheads.
              So who’s the moron here.
              Are you also a Birther?

              1. It’s a conspiracy to believe the electorate largely consists of halfwits?

                1. It’s a conspiracy to believe the electorate largely consists of halfwits?

                  No, that’s inventing lame excuses for the massive failure of a cult leader..
                  That’s like Obama blaming Bush for his own massive failure.

                  Anything else?

              2. EVERYONE got CRUSHED for the presidency, including those who weren’t labelled racist due to a nuanced third position.

                Because they were up against Trump.

                The moron here is clearly you.

        2. He won that election handily.

          And got CRUSHED for the Presidency, after humiliating libertarianism.

          Incredibly, he seeks support on civil liberties liberties among students at Berkeley, then pisses it all away by calling for nationwide tent revivals … perhaps the most God-awful stupid candidate action in the past 100 years. But it does prove that Ron Paul’s wacky “liberty movement” cult CANNOT be expanded. For anyone who needed proof.

          1. Found the Jeb “supporter”.

    2. Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but it seems to me like Johnson has a (mostly) coherent libertarian philosophy in his head, he’s just shit at articulating it. He has no natural gift for messaging or for cloaking his policy positions in larger libertarian principles or, frankly, for putting together a string of more than about three sentences without starting to meander all over the place. Whereas Weld is just all over the place, Johnson understands libertarian principles, he just can’t help anyone else understand them

      1. Then with all due respect, what the hell good is he? We need a salesman, not a mumbling accountant. I’m really happy that Gary understands libertarian principles, but if he cannot sell others on them – who cares?

        Another opportunity lost.

        1. Apparently it’s about his having been a 2-term governor, thus having experience, to impress people. He has experience running for president too, but only at getting the usual LP % of the vote.

        2. Gary understands libertarian principles, but if he cannot sell others on them – who cares?

          Nobody that matters.

        3. We had two successful salesman running for the LP nomination together, but but we wanted to be accepted and this is what we get, the biggest wasted opportunity in Libertaraian history.

          1. but we wanted to be accepted

            How does being an isolated asshole lead to a free society?

            1. How does compromising on so many issues, bringing in an infiltrator for VP, and putting forth an awkward, inarticulate man as our standard bearer lead to anything? His national polling is virtually the same since before LP convention. Yeah 10 percent would be huge for a libertarian candidate but no one is being converted and they will leave by 2020. Johnson has failed.

              1. He hasn’t done any of that and you just proved your ignorance. What does converting anyone have to do with this? You people are totally clueless, Your pissed because Johnson has ended your destruction of the movement.

                Converting people? (lol)

                By his wacky words, if Gary wins the White House but doesn’t convert anyone to libertarianism he’s a failure! Yep, another cult follower.

                1. No I’m pissed because Johnson has failed to deliver on what he promised, his polls have stagnated at 10 percent because he can’t sell himself because he’s so damn goofy.

                  1. No I’m pissed because …

                    Because you’re fucking stupid .. totally clueless on how difficult it is for Libertarian Party to get any traction, for only 40+ years … that his poll numbers HUMILIATE Ron Paul’s best. making you a whining poor loser.

                    I know because I ran statewide as a Libertarian. Twice. What have you ever done, except being a bellowing blowhard on a TINY Comments page?

                  1. ANOTHER screwup by Mr.Mist!!!

                    He links to McAfee getting a standing ovation AFTER his speech at the LP convention.

                    (laughing too hard to type)
                    Here’s Gary waking THROUGH a standing ovation, BEFORE he spoke, on his way to the podium after he’d been introduced. (smirk)

                    Gary also got the votes. Proving me right that speeches are more important than votes to you people.

                    (Goobers live deep inside a tribal cave, totally cut off from the outside world, hungrily sucking the teat of their brainwasher for nourishment …. never knowing what’s in that outside world that we call REALITY,)

                    1. Gary ain’t growing shit, if not for Clinton and Trump he’d be at 1 percent like 4 years ago. Jesus dude take a Xanax or smoke a joint. McAfee wanted to build the party from the ground up which is fucking sensible. Do you really think any one the people Gary brings in will vote for us in 4 years? All you can do is talk about your one life accomplishment, you didn’t offend me or violate any safe space, but I was being civil, now I can see why everyone else here just flames you, because you are a lunatic.

                    2. Precisely. The other two parties got locked in to abysmal candidates, one by nepotism and established hierarchy, the other by their base going off the rails in the primary, and Johnson is just picking up the scraps. Right now it looks like he’s half trying to stay principled and half trying to compromise to appeal to centrists.

                      But I’m not entirely sure what Hihn’s point here is, and from the looks of it, Hihn isn’t sure either.

                    3. But I’m not entirely sure what Hihn’s point here is,

                      That MrMiist made a MASSIVE fuckup in the link he posted, I even linked to proof!

                      Again, the goobers are PISSED because Gary doesn’t screech anti-gummint soundbites.
                      But he’s been elected twice against all partisan odds, and the screeching goobers have achieved ……………………….???

                      So taking campaign advice from MarkLastName is like Christ seeking the opinion of Satan!

      2. I’m fast running out of benefits of the doubt to give Johnson, but I still think he’s the least bad ideologically of the four who anybody knows about (Clinton, Trump, Johnson, Stein). That having been said, as Brochettaward notes, a protest candidate kinda has to offer something worth protesting for.

        1. Well, it looks like he’s going to do fairly well in this election, so arguably he’s building the Libertarian brand.

          Whether there are still any actual libertarians associated with the party is another question.

        2. As wacko as she is Stein did a good job getting some powerful information out regarding foreign policy on her town hall. Johnson is so weak and inarticulate, and uncomfortable and really offers nothing new, or gives any reason to,frustrated voters to vote for him. We needed a radical this year, and we had one, but all you smart guys went for former republicans and this what happens. He started at 10% and has went nowhere with three months of publicity.

      3. Again I say, Reason magazine is getting *exactly* the libertarian candidate it deserves.

      4. He has no natural gift for messaging or for cloaking his policy positions in larger libertarian principles

        It’s an election, not a course in libertarianism. Do you know the difference?
        YOUR “thinking” is why the libertarian brand is rejected by 91% of libertarians! Per Cato.

        Maybe … just maybe … he’s focused on the 59% of Americans who are fiscally conservative and socially liberall (per Cato) … instead of MAYBE 3% who think babbling about principles is more important that winning elections.

        1. As we’ve explained to you many times, nowhere near 59% of Americans are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Most people who would gladly gas their ideological opponents would still probably check off the ‘supports freedom of speech’ box on the survey, so for the love of God stop mentioning that useless poll.

          1. MORE aggression (and proven lies)

            MarkLastname|M/b>
            As we’ve EXPLAINED to you many, times, nowhere near 59% of Americans are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

            As PROVEN over a dozen times, you’re a liar..

            Most people who would gladly gas their ideological opponents would still probably check off the ‘supports freedom of speech’ box on the survey,

            (smirk) That’s NOT a question. Mark has seen the questions. So can you. Brand Preference Survey conducted by a top pollster. Zogby for Cato.

            (emphasis added for the morally impaired)

            http://bitly.com/1AGaBU7

            only 9 percent of voters with libertarian views identify themselves that way. Voters we identified as libertarian identified themselves this way: ?.”Would you describe yourself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal?” ….

            … That is, by 59 to 27 percent, poll respondents said they would describe themselves as “fiscally conservative and socially liberal”

            1) 9% of libertarians identify as libertarians. 100 — 9 = 91%
            2) Libertarian defined as “fiscally conservative and socially liberal”

            Those two numbers …. 9 and 59 …show Mark and his tribe are a severe threat to liberty.

            so for the love of God stop mentioning that useless poll.

            Only in self-defense from serial aggressors, thugs and stalkers

      5. Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but it seems to me like Johnson has a (mostly) coherent libertarian philosophy in his head

        You haven’t got a coherent libertarian philosophy in your head, so that pretty much sums ‘er up.

        1. Pat,
          There are still 11 people here you haven’t insulted or snarled at, in your own thuggish way,

    3. It’s funny to me that we have a protest candidate who can’t even coherently outline his positions

      When asked about legalizing prostitution, Gary gave 3 different answers =

      – leave it to the the states
      – I agree with the LP position, which is that its a personal ownership thing,
      – but its still a crime, and the prostitutes are the victims.

      To everyone’s amazement, Weld then said something worse.

      1. Why should someone running for prez even get asked or A such a Q? What could he do about it?

        1. The context was from a libertarian asking, “How do you feel about self-ownership issues”, basically saying, “how do you apply libertarian ideas in the real world”.

          And the answer was a splatter of “anyting/all of the above”.

          Why should any presidential candidate answer that? One it says what his principles are (in this case, non existent), and 2, presidents *can* influence enforcement priority. Who they choose as AG has a huge influence, and they can (like obama did re: immigration, albeit legally a step too far) sometimes issue re-definitions of how laws should be understood.

          1. And the answer was a splatter of “anyting/all of the above”.

            (lol) It was a three-part answer, because he’s not a bellowing blowhard like you, spewing soundbites. The first two were directly on point.

            The third raised a “new” issue to consider. But since you’re a retard, I’ll explain that it translates into, “why arrest the prostitute, who’s often the victims? The bastard was defending individual liberty, (gasp)

            So … which of the three parts do you challenge?

            1. Actually, it sounded like he was echoing the ‘Nordic’ model, which views prostitution as inevitably a crime against the prostitute perpetrated by the the client, when in fact most of the people arrested for prostitution are the johns. So it wasn’t that encouraging to people who actually favor individual freedom (i.e., think prostitution just be plain legal, not legal for the prostitutes but illegal for the johns, which is absurd).

              By the way, if you support the ‘Nordic model’ do go ahead and stop calling yourself libertarian.

              1. I made an ass of you here

                https://reason.com/blog/2016/08…..nt_6349576

                Any more would be ridiculing a cripple.

              2. Actually, it sounded like he was echoing the ‘Nordic’ model, which views prostitution as inevitably a crime against the prostitute perpetrated by the the client,

                Listen again.

                So it wasn’t that encouraging to people who actually favor individual freedom (i.e., think prostitution just be plain legal, not legal for the prostitutes but illegal for the johns, which is absurd).

                Liar. He said prostitution should be a state matter, as most of it is now. So now you’re a liar AND a jackass.

    4. But if I run a business and refuse you service, the government should totally have the power to punish me for the thoughts that motivated me for refusing you.

      It’s the refusal, dumbass.

      Two facts, you people ignore.

      1) Unless we repeal ALL “conscience: laws, then you bigots will use that as an excuse to ,,, be bigoted. Ever heard of equal rights? Such phonies.

      2) The “religious” excuse is so fucking LAME, when it creates exemption based on “sincere religious beliefs” for CRIMINAL CHILD ABUSE in so many states. Or KILLING people by denying vaccines, BUT refusing liability for any resulting illnesses or deaths, like the progressives you copy.

      Dog whistles for socons eager to be manipulated.

      The same people who sneer at the idea of “using whatever bathroom you ‘feel like” — which only goobers believe ever happens — those same people will claim a “sincere religion belief” for anything at all (which does happen)

      Your time has expired. Go away. And take the Paulista Cult with you,

      1. It’s the refusal, dumbass.

        No, it’s not you retarded old mentally ill cunt. Refusal of service is not illegal, except in particular circumstances as determined by anti-discrimination law. The act of refusal is not being penalized, the motivation is.

        1. Paty(PM)
          No, it’s not you retarded old mentally ill cunt

          (laughing)

          . Refusal of service is not illegal,

          I never said it was, Sparky.. This is what Brochettaward said, Pay attention this time

          But if I run a business and refuse you service, the government should totally have the power to punish me for the thoughts that motivated me for refusing you.

          In HIS example, the arrest would be for the action, not the thought. So I corrected his screwup.

          (walks away laughing at the bully)

          (My tone and boldface is self-defense from aggression … by a trashmouth bully – who cannot read)

      2. “Equal rights” applies to an individual’s dealings with the government. You *cannot* apply that term to private transactions without winding up with the exact opposite outcome. E.g., the baker has less rights than his Nazi customer.

        Any coherent libertarian (small-l please) would recognize that. It’s like you have some horrible brain-wasting disease — in recent months your posts have gone from thoughtful dissent to full-blown KoolAid drinking AmSoc nuttery.

        1. You just said that applying equal rights to a transaction leads to UNEQUAL rights!
          Only to progtards.

          your posts have gone from thoughtful dissent to full-blown KoolAid drinking AmSoc nuttery.

          … he says after making a public fool of himself.

          1. “You just said that applying equal rights to a transaction leads to UNEQUAL rights!”

            Liar.

      3. So much for “though I disagree with what you say I’ll defend to the death you’re right to say it/” Hihn, self-appointed guardian of libertarianisn, doesn’t believe people have a right to be bigoted. And yet, they do. People don’t have equal rights to a bigot’s property, he should be free to distribute or sell it in whatever bigoted manner he pleases. Only when he coerces someone into doing something does he violate their rights and is the state justified in stepping in.

        Some of us, Mike, actually care more about the principles than the label.

        1. Hihn, self-appointed guardian of libertarianisn, doesn’t believe people have a right to be bigoted.

          (snicker) WHERE?

  4. Why Gary Johnson Opposes Hate-Crime Laws (and You Should Too)
    If I throw a rock through your window, said Johnson, “I should be prosecuted on throwing the rock, not my thoughts that motivated me throwing the rock.”

    HazelMeade Hardest Hit

  5. Personal OT. I just told my sister I’m taking my daughter paintballing.

    My sister told me to dress my daughter in layers. Because it hurts.

    I told her that I’m putting her in a bathing suit.

    My sister believed me.

    I need to send my sister over here to hit and run so she learns about this new thing the kids are doing called snark.

    1. So send her over. We will take care of that.

      *cracks knuckles*

    2. Is your sister Virginia Postrel, by any chance?

      1. No she’s Rand Paul’s wife.

    3. I need to send my sister over here to hit and run so she learns about this new thing the kids are doing called snark.

      Not sibling enough!

      “No, since the last time you went people started getting tired of the layers of clothing, welts, and bruising so they modified paintball regulations so the paintballs are softer and the guns don’t fire as hard. You can just go out in shorts and a t-shirt now, you should try it, it’s awesome.”

    4. And she summarily called CPS and you’re tying this from your cell, eh?

  6. South Park already covered this over a decade ago 😛

    Hate Crime Laws are for those with an intelligence that also support Gun Free Zones

  7. Gary Johnson is a Libertarian.

    Also, I am a flying reindeer with a red nose. And if you buy a lottery ticket it will take care of your retirement.

    Ok, the red nose part might actually be true. I am going to make a vodka now.

    1. Make a vodka what?

      1. I mix with cranberry juice half and half.

    2. Browns game tonight,pizza and beer for me later.

      1. You are going to watch a Browns game…a pre-season Browns game…sober? You need to change that order up.

        1. No, I’ll be having an hour or so before kick off.

          1. A few that is.

    3. So how does that work, you ferment a bunch of potatoes or something? When will it be ready?

      1. Ah, the Irish dilemma: mash the potato, fry it, or ferment it?

          1. No, I’ll stick w the potato.

      2. Actually, this morning I started a batch of muscadine wine. I had a bumper crop of bronze muscadines that are extra sweet with only a mild musky flavor. I cant wait. That will be ready late october/early november.

        I trimmed the vine after the first batch of grapes got started. The trimmed vines sprouted and made a second round of grapes which should be ripe in a month or so. I already have what I want so I think I will let the birds and squirrels have the second batch. If I wasn’t so lazy and paid more attention I could have easily gotten three crops out of those vines this year. I may try that next year.

        1. Mescaline wine? Cool!

    4. I assume you’ll be pairing the vodka with something else.

      I never understood the appeal of a liquor that aspires to taste like…nothing.

      1. Why do you think it pairs so well?

        1. It isnt just that it pairs well. If you use a light mixer and with no sugar there is no hangover.

      2. I never understood the appeal of a liquor that aspires to taste like…nothing.

        Its Nihilism in a glass

        And people are surprised its so popular in Eastern Europe

        1. Ok, that’s just flat out brilliant.

        2. Tundra is correct. Gilmore wins the thread.

        3. Why get wasted when you can get annihiliated?

    5. Also, I am a flying reindeer with a red nose

      Just another brainwashed goober with no idea of what libertarianism is, or what elections are for, incapable of THINKING beyond memorized slogans and soundbites. Like progressives but with a different mantra, Often cult followers of Ron Paul.

      1. Just another brainwashed goober with no idea of what libertarianism is, or what elections are for, incapable of THINKING beyond memorized slogans and soundbites.

        *proceeds to copy and paste the exact same slogans he’s been posting for 5 years on HyR*

        91%!!!!!!!!!!!!! PAULISTAS!!!!!!!!!! CATO!!!!!!!!!!!

        1. (laughing) I’ve already ridiculed you enough today.
          https://reason.com/blog/2016/08…..nt_6346603

        2. Don’t forget the “It’s all you ideological purists who are the reason that the LP brand can’t win despite 59%…” followed by “NOW GET OFF OF MY LIBERTARIAN LAWN YOU PAULISTA DEATH CULTISTS”

          Apparently Mike’s big tent LP has no room for supporters the most successful pro liberty candidate in decades.

          1. (laughing) Hatred and bigotry get lots of votes, See Donald Trump

            He’s not pro-liberty.

            Only a fascist would say “rogue judges” overturned DOMA, as he constantly says SCOTUS has no power to defend fundamental rights, a crazy version of states rights invented by southern racists. He tried to forbid the court from defending rights of homosexuals, among THE most bigoted acts in US history. He says NO founder even wrote about separation, pandering to uneducated goobers.

            He lies about the 10th Amendment, expressly denying the founding principle of delegated powers, says states can have powers that have never been delegated, never saw the 9th Amendment. … all tracing to Orval Faubus, George Wallace and the Klan. On his own words, he would agree with Governor Faubus that Eisenhower had no power to defend equal rights in 1957 Little Rock, which is a disgrace to individual liberty.

            You see Ron in liberty venues because, being tribal, that’s the only place you look. But he spends far more time recruiting cult followers from among the worst conspiracy nuts and wackos .. Alex Jones, Stansbury Research, Infowars.com, and others.

            Thanks for giving me the opportunity to take all this public.

            1. I agree that Paulism is pretty racist and has done us more harm than good, and that their social conservatism needs to be purged from Libertarianism. I just disagree that Gary is the guy to do it. Mcafee was.

              1. Gary is aiming directly at the majority of Americans who are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. McAfee looked (to me) like another one preaching at our choir … which is less than 5% of voters. But thanks for sharing your view on this.

                I’m a rare breed, an electoral libertarian. Elected in two different states, launched a winning tax revolt, the first (only?) paid director of a state LP where my background in corporate training was used to develop county chairs who would then recruit and help or manage better candidates. Not many libertarians focus so tightly on elections and policy.

                1. I am happy for you man, I just think let life live could have sold and his focus on privacy is very important to me. Also vote different was geared at actually getting libertarians elected and stop wasting so much resources on national runs. There are plenty of local and state seats here in Alaska that a libertarian could have won or competed in, but we have zero candidates. And again Gary hasn’t been able to sell himself as his national polls show.

                  1. Also vote different was geared at actually getting libertarians elected and stop wasting so much resources on national runs

                    I have no idea what that means. But as the PAID Director of a state party (WA) I worked entirely on recruiting and training candidates for local office, and training county chairs. I’ve been elected twice, in two different states, launched a winning tax revolt and managed or assisted (like websites) for dozens of winning campaigns

                    This election is an opportunity that happens only once or twice per century. Politicians cannot effect great change unless voters are ALREADY ready for it. You would piss away any opportunity for 50-100 years. Great strategy!

                    And we sure as HELL ain’t going anywhere with bat-shit crazy stuff like “Repeal the income tax and replace it with nothing,” Anything that’s too extreme for AYN RAND is wackyville,

                    1. Votedifferent.us was a database to streamline the process for local and state libertarians that McAfee championed, and why did you insult me in the thread above? I’ve been respectful to you. And the consumption tax is one reason I don’t like Gary because it’s already expensive as hell where I live to buy things. Again Gary has had more publicity than any libertarian ever and is still polling at 10 percent as was pre convention. I am not a Paul cultist man.

                    2. why did you insult me in the thread above?

                      Where?

                      I don’t like Gary because than any libertarian ever and is still polling at 10 percent as was pre convention.

                      You’re just repeating the same discredited falsehoods/ignorance.
                      1) Lying about his pre-convention poll numbers
                      2) Lying that it makes any difference at all.
                      3) Professing your PROFOUND ignorance of LP candidate polling history.
                      4) Wanting to piss away ANY opportunity for 50-100 years. This is who you champion liberty?

                      All this on top of posting a video that wound up publicly humiliating you.
                      https://reason.com/blog/2016/08…..nt_6348888

                      Is THIS an insult? Did I violate your “safe zone.” Commit micro-aggression?

                    3. How am I lying? A couple of 10 percent polls for Gary is why you people prematurely ejaculated all over yourselves, and guess what national polling is still below ten percent. I have given Gary and LP national some money, so I do want him to do well, but the Goofy inarticulate fuck can’t do shit with all his publicity, and fuck Bill Weld.

                    4. Comment: Michael Hihn|8.20.16 @ 12:59AM

                      In reponse to Mr.Mist:
                      :”Because you’re fucking stupid….”

                      Sounds like an insult to me, Mike.

                      Btw, do you narrate your life the way you narrate your comments? That must be amusing for the other metro passengers.

                    5. Sounds like an insult to me, Mike.

                      https://reason.com/blog/2016/08…..nt_6348875

                    6. So is Michael the fabled 1 paid shill that Johnson was able to afford?

            2. ” a crazy version of states rights invented by southern racists.”

              Aka, the version put in place by the founding fathers and the ratification process.

              “He says NO founder even wrote about separation, pandering to uneducated goobers.”

              Sure he did.

              “He lies about the 10th Amendment,”

              Liar.

              “expressly denying the founding principle of delegated powers”

              The founding principle of delegated powers means something totally different than what authoritarians like you believe it means, michael. RP knows that. You lie about it.

              “says states can have powers that have never been delegated”

              Liar.

              “never saw the 9th Amendment”

              Liar.

              RP is a thousand times more pro-liberty than GJ. And ten thousand times the superior candidate.

  8. Someone once told me that hate-crime laws would make juries more hesitant to nullify the law. He never told me what would stop juries from nullifying a hate-crime law, too.

    1. Juries cannot nullify laws. Not openly. Libertarians have protested that for decades.

      1. “Juries cannot nullify laws. Not openly.”

        Yes they can.

  9. You know who else believed in thought crimes?

    1. Tom Cruise?

      1. Hyperbole already got you on that.

        1. Oops, I know the groups’ names, not so much the musicians’ names.

          1. The only way I learn new things these-a-days is looking up unfamiliar names in “You know who else…” threads. True story.

    2. Gilberto Valle?

    3. Cheap Trick?

      1. Goddamn it. That’s twice in two days. Refresh, motherfucker.

        I blame it on the cat.

        1. Sans squirrels, too. That’s most impressive.

    4. Jesus??
      ____
      ?Matthew 5:28: But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

  10. The Feds need a Bureau of Future Hate Crime. This will solve everything before it even becomes a problem.

    1. What they need is a Bureau of Smart Alecs to deal with people like you.

      /sarc

    2. They don’t?

      http://www.washingtontimes.com…..es-debate/

  11. “but it’s simply wrong to suggest his opposition is rooted in some sort of libertarian quirk or an immature rejection of political correctness”

    There isn’t anything that is the least bit “immature” about a blanket rejection of political correctness in the first place.

      1. Huh, nice article and pretty spot on.

      2. Hey, she upped hers, now up yours.

  12. “But without hate crime laws, how will we prosecute people who intentionally use incorrect pronouns in a hurtful way??” /runs sobbing from room

  13. Something I’ve always wondered about regarding hate crimes: is it possible that they actually encourage haters to commit MORE crimes against minorities? Suppose I want to kill some guy because he’s, say an Armenian quadriplegic and I hate Armenian quadriplegics. I might well conclude that if I murder him I should damn well take care to ROB him as well since if I get caught I can just claim it was a robbery gone bad and avoid the hate crime charge. Admittedly, robbing him isn’t going to hurt him any more after I’ve killed him, but this reasoning could apply to lesser crimes like assault…

    1. It’s kind of creepy that you’ve put so much thought into how you would get away with harming handicapped minorities, but interesting point nonetheless

      1. Armenians aren’t minorities! You clearly haven’t read the latest edition of the Official Privilege Manuel.

        1. MarkLastname
          Armenians aren’t minorities!

          They ain’t the majority!

  14. Look, the carcereal state is a disaster. Riding around forced to eat some crappy gov’t cereal, instead of count chocula (that dude is a creepy diiiiiiiiistant cousin), or cocoa puffs would be horrible.

    A guy like Bernie would love to force one cereal on us. And it would be limited edition so we have to wait on lines and stuff.

    Bernie rolls dowb his car window: “Hey yu, Kid!! That cereal in the car is illleeegal!!! Throw away those fruity pebbles, or it’s off…………to the gulag where the kool aid man……..will take advantage of yu!! And…..Get of my lawn…..lawns of my four houses in my wife’s name!!!!!!!

  15. It doesn’t take an (almost a) Libertarian candidate for President and his (not at all a) libertarian VeeP to oppose thought crimes. All right thing conservatives, constitutionalists and libertarians oppose thought crimes.

  16. I could see an extra penalty for those who strike at random victims (which includes hate crimes, but also typical muggings and other such crimes) as opposed to those who attack a specific target. Of course, this takes no account of the reason for the attack, so that Jared Loughner would have been treated as a normal thug (Gabby Giffords was the specific target). But I think random crime is especially frightening to the public.

    1. I can see upping the penalties for violence against persons while giving judges some discretion and dramatically lowering the penalties for almost everything else.

    2. I think in some respects non-random crime is worse from a statist perspective, since it can represent an attempt to seize a small slice of sovereignty from the state.

      E.g., imagine local government has passed laws and even advertised itself by saing “being gay is awesome, come to our town and be totally mega gay”. An organized group of homophobes is pissed that the government is bringing all the gays in to gay everything up, so they start attacking those openly gay people. Worse, say they often get away with it, or there are lots of them and none of them care about getting caught. If the attacks become common enough, some gay residents on the margin will decide to leave or go back into the closet when not around people they know and trust. Essentially, the criminals are attempting to override the government’s resolution not to use violence by using violence themselves. It is, at least in a very narrow sense, a usurpation of state authority.

  17. My mothers neighbour is working part time and averaging $9000 a month. I’m a single mum and just got my first paycheck for $6546! I still can’t believe it. I tried it out cause I got really desperate and now I couldn’t be happier. Heres what I do,

    ?????? http://www.Max43.com

  18. I am not familiar with this subject, but Joyce has a point, no?

    Not that ‘hate’ should be a crime because it is arbitrary; but why are there different types of murder based on intent?

    If an accident happens and results in a death, then it’s an accident.
    If someone kills another person intentionally, then it’s murder.

    1. This is because non-lawyers (like the author) and even lawyers themselves constantly confuse someone’s motive for acting with their intent. Two very different, but related concepts.

      This, of course, is the heart of the problem with hate crimes and their idiotic enshrinement in the law. If I shout a racial insult while I’m in a fight with a Hispanic guy, what might be a mutual affray and a complete non-crime is now miraculously transformed into a ten-year stint in the crossbar motel for me. I may have not a single ounce of racism in my heart, but an expletive shouted during a fight “you fuckin’ Spic!” could be the difference between prison or not.

      It’s insane. Only morons and progs (but I repeat myself) think these laws are a good thing. I can’t believe that no one has won a case in front of the Supremes on these yet. It’s just dying for a test. I would love to see the Court struggle to explain how it eviscerated Chaplinsky’s “fighting words” doctrine with its later decisions, and then how to square hate crime laws with Brandenburg v. Ohio.

      Burning crosses at a Klan rally and openly invecting about “niggers and jews”? No problem.
      Yell a racial epithet while in the heat of an altercation? Prison, yo.

      Makes perfect sense…to people like Hihn.

      1. Cyber-Bullies can’t help themselves. They’re ADDICTED to committing aggression., This attack was inserted out of thin air!

        “Makes perfect sense…to people like Hihn.”

        The dumbass thinks I defend hate-crime laws … after babbling incoherently on a strawman fallacy (laughing)

        Did the goober consider (or even see) Gary’s op-ed praising the agreement between leaders of the ultra-conservative Mormon Church and the LGBT community in Utah. Are MORMONS progs (snicker)

        Gary promotes negotiation. Goobers promote government force. And why should the beliefs of a minority within the Christian Taliban have more rights than non-Christians? Under a Constitution which explicitly establishes separation of church and state?

        So, Dude, you’re more extreme than even the Mormon Church!

        .(My snarkiiness and boldface in self-defense from aggression by a cyber-bully … another blowhard spreading hysteria by lying about Gary and the issue.)

  19. Hate crime laws have always been about circumventing equal protection of the law in favor of some favored minority group. It remains nothing more than a nonsensical left-wing political ploy, only it will increasingly be embraced by enemies of the left, possibly to the point where the country is divided into warring factions.

    1. Hate crime laws have always been about circumventing equal protection of the law in favor of some favored minority group

      Like conservatives carve out exceptions for their own favored minorities? You must be new to tribal politics.

      1. Like which ones? Laws against religious discrimination protect Muslims, and Unitarian Universalists every bit as much as much as Evangelicals.

        1. Like which ones? Laws against religious discrimination protect Muslims, and Unitarian Universalists every bit as much as much as Evangelicals.

          Not those.

  20. It’s kind of insulting to suggest that anyone here needs to be educated about “hate crime” BS.

  21. It’s kind of insulting to suggest that anyone here needs to be educated about “hate crime” BS.

    Nah. Libertarian goobers can babble about “principles” for hours on end … and they’re pissed because Johnson is ignoring their 1.5% of voters … to focus on the 59% who are fiscally conservative and socially liberal (gasp)

    People who’ve never done a fucking thing are always critics of those who achieve so much more than they possibly could., And as we see clearly, up and down this entire page, it’s not just progressives who despise and attack the achievers. Not just progressives who suck off the achievements of others.

    1. Yeah, it’s not that you’re a retarded old useless irrelevant cunt with severe mental illness. We’re all just jealous of that one time when you came in last place with 1% of the vote for local insurance commissioner.

      1. I was elected dumbfuck.

        1. Is dumbfuck the official title of the office? Or just the friendly little name your staff had for you?

          1. It’s Pat.

            You may be an even bigger dumbfuck, since he named the office in his statement.

          2. Forget GILMORE, you won today’s Internet for that one 🙂

            1. Dumbass cannot read .. like jarflax’s massive fuckup. Then add GILMORE for a trifecta of bullies.

        2. Interesting that you were elected dumbfuck. Dumbfucks are appointed in my city. Self-appointed, incidentally

        3. “local insurance commissar”

          Sounds “libertarian” to me…

          1. Do you know what a partisan race is?
            Ever hear of the Libertarian Party?
            Are you, like him. crazy enough to think Insurance Commissioner is a local office? Just checking, since you were so totally wacky here:

            https://reason.com/blog/2016/08…..nt_6344060

    2. My you really are an angry little elf, aren’t you? If your life was full of mirth until Paul supporters and the Reason commentariat stole it away from you then I am truly sorry for your loss. I suspect it has to do with other things though…..

      My friend you seem to be imprisoned between four walls that you cannot (or refuse to) see beyond; on one side you have a single Cato survey with the 59/91% statistic that you love to quote ad nauseam. To it’s left you have the Nolan Diagram which you interpret dogmatically, refusing to acknowledge that there may be some variation among self proclaimed libertarians in the definition of socially liberal/fiscally conservative. To its right you have your own grandiose notions of your own positions and accomplishments; hence your frequent condescension to nearly every other commenter that they are somehow less deserving of the libertarian mantle than yourself. The final wall imprisoning you is a hatred of all things relating to the Paul family/social conservatism that boarders on psychosis; never mind that while you may disagree with ‘Liberty Movement’ folks on a number of issues you still could probably find common ground with them on many things given that you espouse commitment to the same root political theory. However common ground is not something you seem to be seeking, you seem to prefer instead to revel in your narcissism.

      1. I know you are getting advanced in age my angry friend. I sincerely encourage you to take more walks, enjoy more sunsets and spend more time with loved ones. You owe yourself more than spending your later years typing out hate-filled screeds on dead comment threads.

        1. typing out hate-filled screeds

          He adds that after a lengthy ,,, hate-filled screed. (Paulista’s are kinda dumb that way)
          It even invents a screen name to carry out his aggression, But it’s not an aggressor!! (snicker)

          1. Hmm, I see mockery in that post not a hate filled screed. But you are clearly the resident expert in hate filled screeds.

            1. Do you know the difference between aggression and self-defense?
              Have you enlisted as a stalker also?

              1. Neither is implicated by snarky comments online.

                1. Now the dumbfuck denies verbal aggression!!!!

                  SEE! RON PAUL’S CULT ARE JUST THAT STUPID.

                  And bullies and aggressors, like all statists.
                  As he stalks me like a common thug.

                  1. *He’s* the statist? You’re the one who wants to use the power of the state to enforce “equal rights” amongst private parties.

                    Now go bake me a cake.

                    1. You’re full of shit.

                      Ron Paul is a fucking thug, Only a fascist would say “rogue judges” overturned DOMA, as he constantly says SCOTUS has no power to defend fundamental rights, a crazy version of states rights invented by southern racists. He tried to forbid the court from defending rights of homosexuals, among THE most bigoted acts in US history. He says NO founder even wrote about separation, pandering to uneducated goobers.

                      He lies about the 10th Amendment, expressly denying the founding principle of delegated powers, says states can have powers that have never been delegated, never saw the 9th Amendment. … all tracing to Orval Faubus, George Wallace and the Klan. On his own words, he would agree with Governor Faubus that Eisenhower had no power to defend equal rights in 1957 Little Rock, which is a disgrace to individual liberty.

                      YOU see Ron in liberty venues because, being tribal, that’s the only place YOU look. But he spends far more time recruiting cult followers from among the worst conspiracy nuts and wackos .. Alex Jones, Stansbury Research, Infowars.com, and others.

                      You clearly have no clue what “statist” means … while lying about me.

                    2. notJoe|8.
                      He’s* the statist? You’re the one who wants to use the power of the state to enforce “equal rights” amongst private parties.

                      Bullshit. Where? Shame on you AGAIN.

      2. My you really are an angry little elf, aren’t you?

        Why would I be angry?
        And if you’re not an aggressive thug, why so lengthy a personal attack? (smirk)

    3. Well they aren’t buying it anyway. Still at 10 percent nationally, and that has nothing to do with Gary, but because of how bad Trump and Clinton are.

  22. RE: Why Gary Johnson Opposes Hate-Crime Laws (and You Should Too)
    If I throw a rock through your window, said Johnson, “I should be prosecuted on throwing the rock, not my thoughts that motivated me throwing the rock.”

    The thought police of beloved socialist slave state would disagree. It is the motivation for such gruesome crimes that should be prosecuted (and persecuted) if we are to able enjoy the joys and benefits of our elitist vermin’s society they have so kindly made for us. The State should always know what’s on the little people’s mind at all times. Any member of The State’s police forces should be able to walk up to anyone and ask the untermenschen about their ideas, attitudes and beliefs regarding The State’s policies and actions. Only through thought examination can our obvious betters be able to judge what the lowly plebian class is thinking and take appropriate action for the good of the collective. This way, free and independent thoughts can be carefully monitored and corrected through such benevolent and kind measures as torture, beatings and random shootings. Controlling the unwashed masses starts with thought control, and they will be grateful…or else.

  23. The thought police of beloved socialist slave state would disagree.

    We all know that.

  24. First act of courage by Gary Johnson this election season?

    1. Open your eyes before you crash into a wall.

      1. Take your meds, dear.

        1. Too late. You crashed. RIP
          As the liars spread even deeper hysteria.

          1. “Too late.”
            Indeed, meds won’t do you any good at this point. No cure for a lobotomy.

            1. More aggression (sigh)
              And talks like a 12-year-old.

  25. Comparing manslaughter and murder is disingenuous. Compare first- and second-degree murder instead. What’s going on inside your head is what makes the difference.

    1. Sorry, Tony, but not quite. See my note above.

      More importantly, 1st and 2nd degree murder are just different names for murder/manslaughter. One is a statutory distinction, the other is an older, common law distinction.

      If I kill a man because I catch him in bed – in flagrante delicto – with my wife, it was generally viewed as a “crime of passion” and thus manslaughter would lie, not “murder” – which required “malice aforethought.” (Think “poisoning” or other kinds of assassination .) The underlying issue isn’t the political or personal motivation for the killing, it’s that I plotted it out and deliberately took a human life.

      Everything else was generally considered a lesser form of homicide.

      If you hit a guy in your car because you were a shitty driver or not paying attention or fell asleep at the wheel, that all doesn’t amount to murder. If the guy you killed was black and that made you happy, it doesn’t make one whit of fucking difference. It might matter in sentencing as it shows a lack of remorse, but it shouldn’t matter at all to the elements of the crime. It was either intentional or it wasn’t. If it wasn’t, the fact that you weren’t particularly fond of the particular demographic to which the victim belonged is utterly irrelevant – except to progs and those posing as libertarians like Hihn.

      1. (laughing) I won’t humiliate the lying thug twice in one day. This does nicely:
        https://reason.com/blog/2016/08…..nt_6348901

        (walks away laughing harder at the proven fool)

        OH, WAIT!

        More importantly, 1st and 2nd degree murder are just different names for murder/manslaughter. One is a statutory distinction, the other is an older, common law distinction.

        They’re both statutory, Mr. Bellowing Blowhard.
        The punishments are different.
        So you’ve been made a fool of by even TONY!!

    2. That doesn’t really explain why killing someone because they’re black or gay should be considered more egregious than killing someone because they have a uni-brow or because they drive a foreign-made car. There isn’t really any justification for declaring this certain subset of motives to be enormously worse than other ones.

      Frankly I don’t see how progressives can square their support for hate crime laws with their supposed support for reducing incarceration rates. Someone getting 5 years because they said the n-word in a bar fight with a black guy where they would have gotten probation otherwise seems neither fair nor a good use of government resources. It seems like one of those political wormholes (much like with sex crimes) where progressives suddenly turn into Judge Roy Bean.

      1. That doesn’t really explain why killing someone because they’re black or gay …. (babble redacted).

        It also doesn’t explain nuclear fission, neither of which has been even hinted at in this thread.

        The issue here is murder vs manslaughter … one issue raised by Nolan Brown. That’s where we start. Discussing the post at the top of the page.

  26. I am making $89/hour working from home. I never thought that it was legitimate but my best friend is earning $10 thousand a month by working online, that was really surprising for me, she recommended me to try it. just try it out on the following website.

    ??? http://www.NetNote70.com

  27. Unionaire Agent
    Carrier Agent
    Les premiers services du site en Egypte fournit des services d’entretien des adaptations marques et fournit toutes les pi?ces de rechange d’origine et d’?normes rabais sur les ing?nieurs de maintenance avec une vaste exp?rience dans la maintenance

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.