Election 2016

Donald Trump Thinks Crime Is Out of Control, Hillary Clinton Thinks Gun Violence Is Growing. They're Both Wrong.

Here's a quick guide to what Democrats and Republicans don't get about 20-year trends in violent crime and shootings.


Remember that time that Republican presidential nominee talked about he was the "law and order" candidate who alone could take back the night from the non-existent legions of roving crime gangs and punks not seen since the 1979 movie The Warriors? Well, he's wrong. There is no big crime trend happening.

Now that's an interesting point Nobel laureate Paul Krugman makes and it's basically correct. There have been some fluctuations in property and violent crime since 2013 according to government data, but not really so much.

Which leads Tyler Cowen of George Mason University and the Mercatus Center to ask a sharp rejoinder question:

This is not just a great gotcha on the eve of the Democratic National Convention, which starts on Monday in Philadelphia and will be chock full of apocalyptic speechifying about a non-existent "epidemic" of gun violence. It's an understated guide to just how politicized things get, especially around convention seasons. Each party will exploit similar issues while attacking the other for being out of touch with reality.

Despite recent mass shootings such Orlando and San Bernardino, which targeted specific people for ideological reasons, or Dallas, where cops were killed, violence is basically half of what it was 20 years ago. This is not a small reduction:

In 1995, for instance, the violent crime rate (which includes murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault) per 100,000 inhabitants was 684.5. In 2014, it stood at 365.5. For murder and non-negligent manslaughter, the rate was 8.2 and 4.5 in 2014. These trends also show up in other violent crimes too.

When it comes to guns specifically, the same general pattern holds, with massive reductions in rates from 20 years ago:

The gun murder rate in 1993 was 7.0 per 100,000, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC) National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. (Those reports rely on death certificate reporting, and they tend to show higher numbers than the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting program, though both trend the same.) In 2000 the gun murder rate per 100,000 was 3.8. By 2013, the rate was even lower, at 3.5, though there was a slight upswing in the mid-00s.

This has all been happening as the individual right bear arms has been expanded by numerous state and local laws as well as Supreme Court rulings. There are more guns in circulation than there are Americans, and we are able to carry them legally in more circumstances than at any point in the past 30 or more years. While there are reasons to believe that the gun-related homicide may bump up this year (especially in cities with relatively strict gun control, such as Chicago), there is no reason to believe that either crime or gun offenses are about to bounce back to where they were 20, 30, or 40 years ago. And as James Alan Fox, the Northeastern University criminologist who has been tracking mass shootings since the 1980s, reminded us after the gruesome San Bernardino shooting last December, "You're not about to die in a mass shooting." While there are variations in fatalities in various years, he stresses that the number of incidents in which four or more people are wounded is not getting bigger:

As for the risk of mass shooting, it is also something we need to keep in perspective. About 100 Americans, on average, are killed each year in mass shootings — out of a population of over 300 million. I kind of like those odds.

Liberals and Democrats think Donald Trump's invocation of a fake crime wave is simply a means by which the billionaire hopes to scare people into accepting him as a savior. They're right to point to a lack of evidence that crime is getting out of hand.

And when Hillary Clinton and Democrats this upcoming week start talking about the need to stop the "epidemic" of gun violence by declaring an unnecessary and sure-to-be-ineffective war on guns, it will be right to point out that they are wrong on that score, too.

NEXT: Glenn Beck: "I'm probably going to vote for Gary Johnson"

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  1. Today in Derp: Greenpeace to build solar panels in Inuit village above the Arctic Circle, a place where there is no sunlight for two months each year.


    1. Cant you just let them have this?

      1. I’d be perfectly fine with every environmentalist on earth moving to a remote village near the North Pole and staying there permanently.

        1. It would be like the Kurtz finale of apocalypse now when they are forced to eat seal meat and whale blubber to survive..

          1. A good place for vegans.

            1. At least vegans are non-violent. Unfortunately, crime is going up again, after falling from the early 1990’s until 2014. It’s misleading for Reason to claim crime is going down, and then selectively cherry-pick the data by not reporting any data after 2014, when crime began rising again.

              As a criminal justice expert noted in the Washington Post, “2015 closed with a 17 percent increase in homicides in the 56 largest cities, a nearly unprecedented one-year spike. Twelve cities with large black populations saw murders rise anywhere from 54 percent in the case of the District to 90 percent in Cleveland. Baltimore’s per capita murder rate was the highest in its history in 2015. Robberies also surged in the 81 largest cities in the 12 months after the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. In the first quarter of 2016, homicides were up 9 percent and non-fatal shootings up 21 percent in 63 large cities, according to a Major Cities Chiefs Association survey.”

              1. until I looked at the bank draft ov $9106 , I have faith that my neighbour was like they say trully bringing home money in their spare time from their computer. . there aunt had bean doing this for less than 10 months and recently cleared the debts on their appartment and bought a great new Lancia . Learn More Clik This Link inYour Browser.

                ???????? http://bit.ly/2abXTUQ

        2. It’ll be nice there in a few years, when the planet warms up. Still no sun for part off the year.

        3. We should set up a test. They set themselves up on an ice flow. For as long as they survive, they are wrong and there is no warming, and they get their continued funding (where they remain far, far removed from us sane peoples). If the ice melts and they all drown, the are proven right, and no one cares.

          1. That’s genius. Pure genius. Gives “drowning in Derp” a new meaning.

          2. These two done more for the environment than Greenpeace:

        4. “I’d be perfectly fine with every environmentalist on earth moving to a remote village near the North Pole and staying there permanently.”

          I’d agree, so long as solar panels were the only source of energy.

    2. Uh, you do know that there is also no darkness there for two months each year, right?

      1. Hey, we’re making fun of watermelons here. Please keep your “facts” to yourself.

      2. Yeah, but the winter is when the need the most electricity.

        1. To run the air conditioning?

        2. Batteries?

      3. So get all your hair-drying and home-heating needs done in June, and you’ll be set.

        1. I am sure they have batteries that can hold a charge for 4 months in arctic cold.

    3. Greenpeace

      When I see this name, I am reminded of the adage “it takes two to make peace, but only one to make war”. You can try to live in harmony with Mother Nature, but she’s still a hateful bitch.

  2. “If Congress refuses to act to end this epidemic of gun violence, I’ll take administrative unconstitutional and illegal action to do so, because the law doesn’t apply to me. -H”

    1. That reminds me: Clinton released one of those montage ads. Come watch children, retards, and people speaking some kind of crazy gibberish shill for Clinton.


      1. No thank you.

      2. Boy, those loving and tolerant people sure are filled with a lot of hate. Wonder if they realized that incongruity.

        1. Also, on the freeze frame to start the video, Hillary’s logo arrow is pointing right at that blonde’s tit.
          Almost looks like it might pop it like a pin into a balloon.

          1. Did you hear that Democrats complained about the arrow pointing to the right instead of the left? I laughed for 2 minutes straight when I read that.

            1. To be fair, I said the same thing to my wife as soon as saw it

      3. The video has more dislikes than likes. I guess…you can say…that’s progress. YEEEEAAAAHHHH!!!!

    2. So “administrative action” is the new marketing phrase for Dictatorial Power? Have to admire the way they manipulate language.

    3. Molon labe

      Which I can’t say without thinking a little bit of “labia”. Now, imagine shouting that at HRC again. You’re welcome.

    4. I’m more concerned over what she wants to do with Citizens United:


      I’m in awe that people actually buy her cock & bull story on how she wants to protect democracy by going after the billionaire super-PACs peddling influence (the effectiveness of which is highly debatable). Hell, that Politico article didn’t even mention that this whole vendetta started when Citizens United, a conservative group, that put out a movie that criticized Clinton.

      As crooked as they come.

      1. Hell, that Politico article didn’t even mention that this whole vendetta started when Citizens United, a conservative group, that put out a movie that criticized Clinton.

        THIS ^^^ RIGHT HERE

        I’ve seen Trump equated with Berlusconi, a comparison I can’t really disagree with. But there is another major party candidate who wants to overturn a Supreme Court decision that was originally about criticizing that very same candidate. She quite literally wants to make it illegal to criticize her (in certain ways).

        Factor in the media’s virtual silence about that inconvenient little detail, and it’s tinpot dictatorship/banana republic level.

        1. +1 lese-majeste

  3. Any beer lovers tried Praga? I just picked up 12 this evening. Admittedly, I’m an aficionado of European lagers or pilsners, but this is the first new (for me) one that I’ve really liked in a while. It’s somewhat like Czechvar, another European pilsner that I really love.

    1. I haven’t. Last night I tried Angry Bastard Ale. I’m not sure how I feel about it.

      1. I’ve tried Arrogant Bastard Ale. I really don’t care for that type of heavy beer. If I want heavy, I’d prefer Rum or Bourbon. Really for high alcohol stuff, I like Vodka best.

        1. Yeah, that’s kind of where I’m at. I mean, it was good for what it was, I’m just sure if my beer needs to be so dark. But sometimes you find a dark beer that is just awesome. For example: Pete’s Wicked Ale is ambrosia.

          1. I like some dark beers, but only in the fall of the year when it starts to get chilly. When it’s 97F, like it was here today, I like my European lagers and pils.

            1. You mean like Reiner?

                1. Was a joke. Not sure if they still exist. You could buy a case of shorties (I think 8oz) for like 8 dollars. They used to run great commercials at Christmas of the beer bottles as reindeer.

                  1. Sounds like Little Kings.

                    1. Want little Kings a malt liquor?

                    2. Cream Ale?

                    3. Little Kings Cream Ale, from Cincinnati.

                    4. One of… no, I think the first, craft beers that I ever discovered, was a Cincy beer by the name of ‘Christian Morelein’. I’m going to call it a Marzen, for lack of a better term. When we first discovered this beer, my friends and I bought all of it, I mean every single case of it that was in stock at all of the local stores.

                    5. I grew up, in part, in Cincy. I live in Baltimore now.

                  2. Can’t find it. But this is kinda what I was thinking of https://youtu.be/q2QSa-S-PZw

                2. It’s Rainier and it’s still around.

                  1. Thank you. Maybe why I couldn’t find the clip 😉

        2. I’ve tried Arrogant Bastard Ale. I really don’t care for that type of heavy beer.

          But it describes us perfectly!

      2. If you like the ‘hop’ try Hoptimum by (yes, believe it or not) Sierra Nevada. Creamy hops taste like a virgin’s something.

    2. Never heard of it. But if you liked that, I recommend Karlovacko.

      “Karlovacko- whether you’re relaxing after clearing a mine field or drinking a toast to the death of all Serbs, nothing hits the spot like Karlovacko”

      1. Ah, Croatia. I want to try that. It rates somewhat below Praga on BeerAdvocate, but sounds good to me. I haven’t
        seen, or don’t remember seeing that one at one of my local stores.

        1. I usually try to make friends with my local drug dealer. He will often order a case of something for a regular customer.

          1. Can he put a couple grams of cocaine on the side and a few serious buds? Is that deliverable by drone?

            1. If have to ask. My understanding is that he’s paying the state protection money just for booze.

    3. I’m with Mencken on pilsner. “Craft beer” is for hipster fags. I don’t recall ever seeing Praga. I’m not going to find it here in Italian Immigrant Mining Disaster, WV. I’ll have to check Tower or Green’s when I get home.

      1. Pilsner is my goto. And it is what most American beers are. Also, Mexican beers. Yes, Tecate, Corona, et al, are pilsners. Mexico also had a large German immigration, which also heavily influenced their beer industry.

        1. Almost all of the beers in Brazil are pilsners. I don’t know why, they just are. And even their most big brewery commercial beers, like Skol, are far, far better than Shitweiser. Actually, Antartica is nearly as good as Stella Artois and one of the beers that I like there. Devassa Tropical Lager, which is a pils that started out as a micro brewery beer and quickly gained popularity, is definitely on par with the best lagers and pils that I’ve ever had, anywhere. I still don’t why we can’t make good lagers in the USA, but we can’t. I haz a sad.

          1. First, Brazil and Germany? Do I to say more?
            Second, I think Budweiser, child, etc., are kind of the American equivalent of small beer: light and watery on purpose, so that you can slake your thirst; it’s for drinking, not tasting.

            1. *Coors, not child

              1. Pilsner is the beer of the new world.

                1. Pilsner is for people who like chugging piss.

            2. Brazil 1, Germany 7.

    4. I have. Praga makes good beer.

      1. I’m enjoying.

    5. I think I’ve ruined my palate when it comes to beer. Anything other than a very hoppy American micro-brew tastes a bit flat to me now. On the plus side, Sam Adams has finally come out with something worth drinking in their (8.4%) Rebel Rouser.

      1. Hearing these guys talk about filtered piss water makes me want to slam a four pack of Old Rasputin.

    6. When it’s 119 degrees and 215% humidity out there, the only civilized drink is a chilled bottle of Bugey de Cerdon. Preferably from Renardat-Fache or Bottex.

      1. Pink sparkling wine?

        I’ll stick to my Shirazes and Malbecs.

        1. That’s like calling Lafte “spoiled grape juice.” Shiraz (code for “hugely overripe and oaked to death syrah”) is not exactly a hot weather treat.

          Bugey Cerdon is the greatest summer drink ever concocted by Man and Yeast.

      2. THIS. So much. Years ago, when I was much more prosperous, I invited some friends to come have brunch at mine. I asked everyone to bring just themselves + 1 and insisted I’d take care of all food and drink. A friend named Jan, who is like a second mother, brought her daughter who had just come into town with her. Well, her daughter is a som, and disregarded my “please bring nothing, it’s all taken care of” and brought a bottle of bugey. I had no idea such joy existed! It is now my go to wine for brunches (when I can find it). Please do yourself a favour and go pick some up and try it. I feel like a better person for just telling you all about it.

      3. I will add this to my list to try!

        My brother is a big red wine drinker and he brought a nice bottle of right bank bordeaux over this weekend, and while it was a very good wine, I would have much rather have been drinking a nice cold white, ros?, or sparkling given the extreme heat…

    7. Have some respect Hype! There are pious and impressionable republican infiltrators present, all of them taught woth mommy’s milk that FDR’s Demon Rum is the bane of civilization. So are you gonna pretend you didn’t know the Devil drinks Praga?

  4. Here’s the root of the problem for the democrats. While republicans like Trump talk about trying to arrest every criminal, something impossible to succeed at: Hillary is hell bent to make millions of law abiding citizens criminals just because they own guns, something with unintended consequences that could rip the nation apart.

    1. Well, the good news is that, the harder she pounds the anti-gun drum, the fewer votes she gets.
      The bad news is that if she loses, then Trump wins. But, as I have said, repeatedly, I don’t care if Satan himself wins, as long as the Clintons never set foot in the WH again.

    2. Hillary is also OK with importing foreign criminals.

      1. Hillary is also OK with importing foreign criminals.

        Import ’em? She works for ’em.

    3. Unintended?

    4. consequences that could rip the nation Republican Party apart.

      A little honesty here rarely hurts anyone…


    1. Remember, you can’t spell “ignorant cunts” without “ignore UN”.
      Or something.
      You know who else couldn’t tell jokes?

      1. Employees at large corporations, who would get fired if they told jokes?

    2. A hour compilation of why Trump will win in a landslide:

    3. Good preview of the debate.

      1. …which I actually kind of want to watch, even though I couldn’t stomach all the Trumpiness of the GOP debates. I think it could have great entertainment value. But with my luck, Trump will suddenly decide to be polite and civil. How disappointing.

        1. Trump will suddenly decide to be polite and civil.

          I’ll take that bet.

    4. If Dennis is a Libertarian candidate, Dennis has my vote.

  6. yoteslaya, ya fucked up boy. You railed an auto sandwich train. Passenger lovers of the lost dead spectacle and nothing in the empty upstairs can explain this smashing of lives years ago but peace upon your house and your seats and the houses and lives of your lovers. yoteslaya for long lost telegraph voice fingers. And may reason live forever as well as its font giants roaming in the grey boxes.

    1. The world is full of magical mysteries
      Puzzles unsolved since ancient history
      Where does the sun hide at night?
      Did people use to live in black and white?
      Is the world round? Is it flat?
      How come no one can tell me that?
      Like, what’s with islands? Get more land.
      What’s with deserts? Get less sand.
      Who is Alaska?
      What is Brazil?
      Isn’t a volcano just an angry hill?
      How did god even think up dirt?
      Erasable pens make my head hurt!

      1. well this is a lovely arrangement of brain voices…

        1. It’s lyrics from a parody of an Insane Clown Posse song.

          1. Parody? Sounds legit.

    2. Squirrels are my comment. Stoopit squirrels. Comment was:
      Good, AC re-upped. I was starting to understand him, and was getting worried, both for him and for myself.

        1. Thanks. I still don’t get it. My fault, not Reason’s poet laureate, I’m sure.

        2. In a failure of communication, who is at fault, the transmitter or the receiver?

      1. Squirrels are my comment.

        Are they this comment, too? 😉

  7. Two points:

    First; crime IS oit of control. It just isn’t the kind of crime that turns up in government genrated statistics, since the State does not record instances where government stooges or highly placed members of the ruling class commit crimes but are not brought to book.


    Think? What makes you think Shrillary THINKS?

    1. She “thinks” the American people are gullible enough to vote her into the WH. Heaven help us, she may be right.

      1. No, she doesn’t “Think” that. She feels entitled to be President. Is she not one of the Elite? And so we are running Trump and Frump.

  8. Laws of the oppossing vicious cut both ways. This is as planned, boys. Listen to your mad radio scientist hannity as his demented right-stricken brain rails on cop-killers. MAKE LAWS TO SAVE MY POLICE FROM BEING DEAD by creating a National Media Hunting Force….

    same laws dummy face puker screams like a tall girl to be created from the dungeon hill is the same EXACT fucking law that will end gun rights.

    Hannity is gaining positive motion for his braindead angels because he knows TRUMP’s electoral knife is pressed against Hillary’s zombie throat.

    The right authoritarians sweep in faster than Al Capone leaving a truck of spirits at a Chicago light fest brimming with 1940’s flapper lightning.

    1. Shine on, you crazy diamond, shine on.

    2. law is double sharpened swords flailing upon the dreams of modern lives…
      law is double edged because
      two teams playing at the same game
      can capture equal partitions of losers
      while still maintaining control of tall houses….

      THIS is why opposing power teams agree to life ending laws…
      because the lives of millions don’t matter on the political chessboard of voices and schemes///

      1. because the lives of millions don’t matter on the political chessboard

        Pure genius.

  9. WRT the promoted comment crime decrease correlated with lead decreas…

    I’m skeptical. Wonder if there was a corresponding increase from before we were using leaded gas till say the mid 60s?

    1. The crime decrease also correlated directly with the rise of video games. Single-factor correlations rarely say much.

      Here’s an article which looks at a variety theories re: factors in the great-crime-decline of 1990-forward

      Here’s the study re: atmospheric lead

      1. “The crime decrease also correlated directly with the rise of video games. Single-factor correlations rarely say much.”

        I remember Paul Krassner in The Realist tracking FBI funding and crime; it was obvious that FBI funding drove crime to higher rates.

    2. Didn’t even see the comment. But I’ve read theories that attribute the fall of Rome at least partially to the fact that expensive wines more sealed with lead, while the cheaper stuff was sealed with wax. So, the rich leaders of Rome were slowly losing their sanity due to lead poisoning. I don’t believe any autopsies have actually been done.

    3. Wonder if there was a corresponding increase from before we were using leaded gas till say the mid 60s?

      I think single crimes like “murder” provide better visibility than “overall crime”, which changes definitions over time as laws change/shows more impact of growing/changing populations. Basically, its more distinct and works as a proxy.

      Crime rose leading up to and into prohibition, dropped to very low levels right after its repeal and through during WWII, then rose slowly afterward, then spiked in the 1970s/1980s, then dropped steadily back to post-war levels.

      1. I suspect it correlates with demographics: large numbers of young men=more crime.

        1. That’s fine for a base-rate. but it doesn’t explain the huge drop post 1990

          In the early 1990s, U.S. crime rates had been on a steep upward climb since the Lyndon B. Johnson presidency. The crack-cocaine epidemic in the mid-1980s added fuel to the fire, and handgun-related homicides more than doubled between 1985 and 1990. That year, murders peaked in New York City with 2,245 killings. Politicians embraced tough-on-crime platforms and enacted harshly punitive policies. Experts warned the worst could be yet to come.

          Then crime rates went down. And then they kept going down.

          By decade’s end, the homicide rate plunged 42 percent nationwide.

          and have dropped more since 2000.

          That drop from 1990-2000 is what no one can quite figure out. It doesn’t have any clear underlying drivers the way the early-20th century rise was clearly affected by pop-growth, urbanization, prohibition, etc… and the way WWII influenced a lull, etc.

          its sort of a mystery that no one has a satisfactory answer to. moreso, it hasn’t been a “lull” either – its stayed low.

          1. Maybe we just have to give the Millennials their due: maybe they are less violent than preceding generations. If you look at history, we hada large group of young men in the WWII generation, but they actually went to war. Large group of Boomers, many went to Vietnam, but still am increase in crime. My generation, Gen X, no mass conscription/major war, lots of crime.
            Next big group of young men is Millennials. Maybe the human species is evolving.

            1. Gen X, no mass conscription/major war, lots of crime.

              Gen X didn’t really hit adulthood until the 90s when the drop began, so I’d say it actually started with them.

          2. The book Freakanomics tried to tie the drop to the rise in abortions, postulating that there were less unwanted children and children in broken homes, who tend to be the ones more likely to become criminals.

            1. Levitt also did this paper looking at “all major factors” in the drop in crime (of which abortion was just one sideline issue he brought in to spice things up)

              the nut of it was this =

              Four factors appear to explain the drop in crime: increased incarceration, more police, the decline of crack and legalized abortion. Other factors often cited as important factors driving the decline do not appear to have played an important role: the strong economy, changing demographics, innovative policing strategies, gun laws and increased use of capital punishment.

              In stark contrast, the crime experience between 1973 and 1991 is not well explained by the factors identified in this paper. The real puzzle in my opinion, therefore, is not why crime fell in the 1990s, but why it did not start falling sooner.

              no one thing really provides a sufficient case all by itself. At best, it “might be” a confluence of a few of those things.

              However i think even this analysis might have lost some of its potency because of the ‘stickiness’ of the decline that has remained in the decade since. there have been changes in the police/incarceration ratios, we’ve had recessions, etc. but no real uptrend in crime even to something like mid-1960s levels.

              1. My suspicion is that the real driver in “why crime declined”….

                was not something that happened in any “big, macroeconomic” way, but which happened in hundreds of smaller, super-high-crime areas,

                My theory is that a large chunk of the legacy “criminal populations” all decided “this predatory drug-dealing shit just isn’t making anyone rich”, and a significant share of people decided to move and/or change their act.

                a cultural generational-shift in a very specific population, in other words.

                and i think researchers probably avoided these sorts of studies because 1) they’re considered racist – by identifying the “criminal” populations in the first place – and 2) people prefer to look at “the big picture” rather than get up close, and study dangerous criminal populations in detail.

                *note : i know levitt did a little of that as well

                I think there’s also reticence to do studies which show, “everything govt does is useless”

                1. I could understand theft declining because there’s so much less use of cash, and the cash that’s still in use is inflated.

              2. I’d forgotten about the abortion angle. Yeah, I wonder how much isn’t being really investigated/written about because of the really unpleasant territory these discussions can lead to.

                1. I should refreshed. DCP nailed it. (Seriously, you’ll always be Gilmore to me)

          3. As to the homicides, couldn’t it just be that there were certain people who needed killing, the killing of whom solved the problem? Most murderers murder only once.

    4. There is direct correlation between leaded gas and California comdor die off but the progs still blame bullets not efficient avian lungs and leaded gas.

      1. Threedoor|7.24.16 @ 12:23AM|#
        “There is direct correlation between leaded gas and California comdor die off but the progs still blame bullets not efficient avian lungs and leaded gas.”

        There is also a direct correlation between the increase in human population and the decrease in Condor population, almost like Condors might be unable to compete for a niche.
        I’ve yet to see any credible reason that humanity should use tax money to keep them from extinction.

    5. My theory, that I’m pulling out of my ass, is that the decrease in violent crime is largely due to technology (video games, internet, easy access to porn (shit, the best we could do when I was a kid was get our hands on a Playboy or Penthouse, or maybe rent a racy R rated movie – I remember how excited we were when Porky’s came out and we could see bush), cell phones, 500 cable channels) that has led to more young people spending more time indoors.

      When I was a yute in NY in the 80s and 90s, there seemed to be a lot more other bored yutes milling about outside on the streets and parks than there are now anywhere I go, from the hood to the suburbs.

      I imagine that when we get holodeks and replicators, violent crime will become statistically insignificant.

      1. Sorry for fucking up the parentheses..

  10. It would be cool if facts mattered in political discourse. But they just don’t. Facts are fucking boring. Nobody attends rallies for line graphs.

  11. Old school masters of unchained communication don’t get the same press once they pass under the modern film of goddamn plastic bullshit spewed from the volcano of silicon valley and screen acres of dull millennial pasta all over the Tim Berners pretend garden.

    Rich cemeteries of concept waterfulls brim with massive storms that even piled centuries cannot contain and this fucking eruption is called the original Grove Press managed by the ever evolving and now dead Barney Rosset.

  12. Squeaky voices when your lips are pressed against the dreams of a thousand lives
    become distractions whipping against the night creams of stolen alleys padding like ninjas
    in the echoes of headlamps stripping trees against rocky mountains and cedar porches
    pause…. a lake under a moon dripping diamonds and dresses becomes the telltalle turnings
    of naked hips glistening with sweat and stars, bro….

  13. No one understands what is happening ever, man
    life is short they say but so are batteries on a goddamn boat
    hunting for adventures with my blonde drug addict outlaw in the swamps
    ramming alligators and tall miles of irritated green walls flickering
    against the odd mazes only thick swamps and long deserts are prone to
    foster and often I would pause momentarily after consuming large amounts
    of psylocybin and hope that the lake does not end and it always does
    and the blonde outlaw and i would fall for miles and end up
    in a mound of awesome filled with gritty stones wearing miniskirts and lightning bras dancing to the metallic tunes
    of time machine mines echoing into the universe of where our boat of comets smacked into
    and comets did ply our adventure like a thousand highways of storming werewolves bristling ufo fur like
    an avery of werewolven birdie army of poem spitting humming thrones smelt
    on the kind heat of dreams and loves, boys

    1. Agile,

      It’s entertaining hell, but I gotta ask; Are you channeling Hunter Thompson? On some new are really interesting street drugs? Did the convention coverage cause you to burst a blood vessel or (even that you are a cyborg) burn out a circuit?

  14. Rape Culture

    No comment about the rest of the video, but around 3:00 of the video. Gavin McInnes is a fucking badass.

    1. I posted that video in my 10:04 comment. Great minds derp alike.

      1. Sorry, bro, wasn’t trying to plagiarize you or anything.

        1. And I’m referring specifically to Gavin.

        2. No worries. There’s plenty of derp for everyone. It’s the ultimate renewable resource.

    2. Gavin’s best moment comes up at 1 minute point in this video. I don’t agree with most of what he says, but not only is it funny that he says it, it’s funny that she asks a man to help her out.

      1. She has no argument, just indignant noises.

        1. These feminists make all kinds of incoherent noises:

          1. What in the name of all that is holy was that?

          2. I refused to watch that with the sound on, it was bad enough without

  15. Dead souls fire the pipes of the modern dreams
    and where mountains don’t exist fantasies thrive
    and where lakes ripple dreams of sandy dragons burst
    like Brooks and his walls of records and paintings
    gently touching the thin ribs of reality

    A long walk through Brooks basement revealed the
    stifling cartons of a thousand decades of cemeteries
    singing below Brooks and his old majestic pussy pages
    captured since foremost issue of winding masturbatories

    the long down was not a place for deep breathing lovers
    because old cardboard is not pleasant and is filled
    with the ghosts of goodwill stars echoing in the poor children
    of millions in the old towns

    you make an old star and his or her voice echoes into the
    forever alleys of the rich and poor and since the poor have far more
    that are far more interesting because the rich are far less interesting
    than the poor realize…
    the songs of the carpeted room writers who are often passing into dust
    have held the visions
    of children in old towns.

  16. Sorry, but the argument that crime is going down may be true, but is an incomplete and not entirely fair response. I could respond to every police abuse story by saying the police were more abusive 50 years ago, so what are you complaining about? But of course that would unfair, would it not?

    Clinton’s expressed concern is simply a rallying cry to restrict 2A rights. I think Trump has a better case, but then I don’t see terrorism and illegal alien crime as things that can be dismissed on the grounds of statistics.

    1. True, saying something is less common than it was X years ago is actually pretty meaningless. It seems like a roundabout way of avoiding having to show the trend line that shows an increase in crime since 2013, which is quite disingenuous. If the author thinks the increase doesn’t negate his point, he should say that, but saying but picking a random year for juxtaposition with the present is not a valid statistical comparison.

  17. “As for the risk of mass shooting, it is also something we need to keep in perspective. About 100 Americans, on average, are killed each year in mass shootings ? out of a population of over 300 million. I kind of like those odds.”

    This is letter for letter something I posted to Facebook a few weeks ago.

    1. So then, pretty much the same odds as being shot by a cop who you aren’t fighting with…?

      1. Except we should expect our chances of being killed by a police officer to be lower than our chances of being killed by a terrorist.
        Just saying.

        1. Also, in America, a terrorist either kills you, or nothing. A cop could kill you, or leave you alone, or anything in between.

          1. A terrorist can also maim you, make you go through time-consuming bullshit at airports, and cause your government to spend money, restrict your rights, and surveil you.

        2. “Should be,” sure. But there’s still an issue of statistical proportionality, but in the problem itself, and in the response to it. One simple rule (don’t fight with cops) will reduce your chances by of being shot by one to a minuscule level. So in a sense it’s absurd to elevate this to some gigantic civil rights issue worthy of demonstrations and riots and excuses for attacks on police. It’s mostly just a collection of confirmation bias, virtue signaling, and political opportunism.

          Terrorism is different. It’s a form of war being waged against us by intentional and organized forces. It’s not just a series of accidents and individual choices. The harm may seem minor, right up to the day something happens that’s not so minor.

          1. OK, how about this: the terrorists are our enemy, and as such, we can expect them to be dicks. The police, in theory, work for us. As such, the chance of being killed by a police officer should be lower, although I grant that the terrorists are not very talented.
            But, if I vote, and petition my government, protest, etc., none of that effects the terrorists. I should have some minimal say in how my own government treats me and my fellow citizens.

            1. I’d agree with that.

      2. Well, what I was getting at was that rifles aren’t used a lot in killings in the US. We have some problems, but rifle violence isn’t really one of them. The post as a whole was also talking about misconceptions people have about rifles- I won’t go into that, because it would be old hat here, but I have a lot of friends who think that the AR-15, for instance, is a high-caliber fully automatic assault rifle/killing machine.

    2. Cool, you’ve given birth to a meme!

      1. Tbh, it is so close to what I posted that I had to look at the date of the article to be sure I wasn’t being quoted without attribution. But I posted this just a few weeks ago, so maybe _I_ read the article, liked the wording, and squirreled it away only to later regurgitate it on Facebook. The “I like those odds” is the dead giveaway. It’s how I ended my post (which was about odds, and rifles.) I’ve since disabled my Facebook account (I don’t want to know what my friends think about politics this year) so I can’t check it, but…

        This isn’t a matter of probabilities- I must have unconsciously plagiarized Mr. Fox. The wording is too similar to be a matter of chance.

        1. Naw, he plagiarized you. Own it.

  18. Living forever is around the alley of our fear gardens
    in the darkest night of our goddamn hammock twistings
    while the bodies of our fucking fears can be seen bleeding out on
    any sidewalk of random 6 o’clock shows anywhere anytime.

    And some suggest that the living should be vulnerable to those
    broken brains armed with killing slings and knives…

    the greatest and premiere societies will always arm themselves
    from lost killers and allow agile to trip on natures acid rivers…

    ON MY REASON lovers…
    life as we know it might be converging on bad rusty times, babes

    1. Ahh.. the ballad of psilocyborg…

      1. Tears blast into the cocoons of the pathogen
        travelling on the bridges of the bleeding
        he stops and looks over his fucking shoulder
        at the converging storms of times
        and the Lord Pathogen erupts into the most
        fucking cheetah death defy running ever recorded
        on the genes of time and space and
        Pathogen sprinted into the goddamn riveting
        malaise of a dimensional volcanic time portal
        which fucking twanged his fucking limbs and dreams into
        a fucking draconian sludge of balloons and inverted
        selves lidding selves and knees and brains melting
        convergalicious so mastoriolouslike into a pressing
        sun orgasm of atomic escapes and………………… FUCKING
        pathogen rippped through the sentience of sentences and dreamers and trippers
        and awoke tomorrow… gifted with deep sun

  19. “Still boggled at the notion of crime as an electoral issue (chart ends at 2013, but no significant change since)”

    Leave it to Krugman to be boggled by simple logic.

    Hillary makes it an issue as an excuse for her gun grabbing agenda.

    Trump makes it an issue to capitalize on the unpopularity of BLM and their supposedly targeting police.

    The first corollary to “Never let a crisis go to waste” is that “Crises can be easily made out of whatever you happen to have lying around in the office”.

    1. “Crises can be easily made out of whatever you happen to have lying around in the office”.
      So, empty coffee cups, dead hookers, and bribes for the building code enforcer?

      1. Warty is into commercial realestate?

        1. Well, it certainly wasn’t my office that I was talking to. This is all just hypothetical anyway.

          1. *Talking about

  20. “Free institutions are next to impossible in a country made up of different nationalities. Among a people without fellow-feeling, especially if they read and speak different languages, the united public opinion, necessary to the working of representative government, cannot exist. The influences which form opinions and decide political acts are different in the different sections of the country.” ?John Stuart Mill


    1. “On Liberty” should be required reading from kindergarten through doctorate?

      1. I mean:

    2. As a JSM pupil- Influences of a supposed free nation start with law and end with lobbyist. FREEDOM does not exist except in the minds of those who live on deeply separated personal property outside the whims of politicians and police like agile or fucking plain ass super rich motherfuckers who own freedom on yachts on the ocean like goddamn Peter.

      Aside from this…. free institutions are awkward at best because most Americans are retarded dummies who don’t understand jack fucking SHIT about freedom.

      Also, WHo the FUCK likes INSTITUTIONS anyway, Mill, you lovely ghost.

    3. A few quotes from a great thinker impart more wisdom than what most college graduates get in 4 years.

    4. One country has survived for 240 years proving the general thesis of this statement to be incorrect.

      1. One country has survivedthrived far beyond any other in history for 240 years

        edit for clarity

        1. What? You’re shitting me, right? Muriccah is a tween, convinced of both her supreme knowledge of absolutely everything and her immortality, neither of which are warranted, nor guaranteed.

    5. “Discuss.”

      “Mill’s “On Liberty” addresses the nature and limits of the power that can be legitimately exercised by society over the individual. However Mill is clear that his concern for liberty does not extend to all individuals and all societies. He states that “Despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarians”.[23]”

      Any hint on what/who he defined as “barbarians”

    6. I think the US compared to much of Europe exemplifies the opposite of what Mill claims. I think Will Durant made the interesting argument that the sheer diversity of religious creeds in the US (and the same can probably be said for nationalities) was much of what made it so free, because no single reed was in a position to establish its own theocracy, so a general freedom was actually in the interest of each one. Compare that with Europe, where many countries, even largely secular ones, still have state religions. Heterogeneity fosters competition and makes dominance by any one group more difficult.

      Mill’s “fellow-feeling” is in fact one of history’s greatest motivations for tyranny (he may as well have just come out with it and said ‘fraternite’ like the Jacobins). In fact, what we see in our own country with progressives is a quest toward a ‘Great Society’ with an established set of norms where everyone gets along ( – or else), where everywhere is a safe space. Freedom of speech becomes a ‘threat to society.’ No, methinks homogeneity, especially of the intellectual variety, is generally conducive to tyranny rather than freedom. It’s what leads people to let the individual become less prominent in their considerations that abstract notions like ‘society.’

    7. Ok – maybe we should split the country up then. Because there isn’t a whole lot of ‘fellow-feeling’ or ‘united public opinion’ in a nation of 300+ million people.

      You don’t need to speak a different language to want completely different things from your nation.

    8. What is ultimately at the root of this argument is the existence of a civil society. A homogeneous group of people is more likely to form a civil society, but as many others have already pointed out, homogeneity is not a requirement for a civil society, with America as the countervailing example. I would also add that homogeneity is itself somewhat nebulous, as to many eyes “Yugoslavia” is quite homogeneous–and was fairly civil, if not very liberal, under Tito–but it still devolved into war, rape, and genocide after Tito’s death, and has now ceased to exist as a political concept.

      I think plurality combined with limited tolerance is also a recipe for a civil society. It is important to note that this is quite different from multiculturalism, as popularly understood, wherein people dysfunctionally ignore the fault lines between cultures and create the illusion of civility that ultimately breaks down, either with a loss of civil society or a loss of plurality. Charles Napier’s attitude toward the Hindus is a better example of how to build a civil, pluralistic society than the attitude of the authorities in Rotherham, for example.

      1. To elaborate on my closing point: you build a civil, pluralistic society by tolerating those cultural practices that do not sow mistrust between cultures while resisting, or ideally extinguishing, those that do. For an example in a different direction, the end of slavery and lynching in the US led to a more civil and pluralistic society.

        1. Its a major difference between the US and the Eurozone.

          The US is pluralistic, the EU is multicultural.

          The former is far better at forging cohesive nations because everyone is expected to give and get a little while the latter simply draws ever smaller boundaries around groups of people.

          The US is closer to a single cohesive nation (at 300 million) than France is at 67 million even though France is more homogeneous.

          1. France is far more stringent, both legally and culturally, about requiring adherence to established cultural norms. It’s France, not the US, that bans headscarves in schools. I think national cohesion is valued far more in France than in the US by any definition, while the US values individualism more.

  21. Gifted corpses seem to fill my lungs with their expressive extensive dreams
    and my goddamn self exists to perpetuate their hollow cemetery rappings as
    the ghosts of these fallen geniuses demand my goddamn life force from the
    grace they have fallen into and i hear the screaming pounding rock comets
    of old universes hurting my brain and even making my muscles hurt as they
    project their scared songs from dark deaths.

  22. Underneath the thoughts of my looks
    exist the perceptions of clouds filled with slow motion
    goddamn travels of standing motorcycles spinning tires outside
    the entire FUCKING hell and heavens of dreams are floating like
    burning goddamn towns in front of my dream lenses and jesus fucking christ
    is THiS EVNE REAL or am i going to die in the fingers of pauses and
    communes and connections
    FUCK! a wall of moods and moons and I might well be buying a ticket for the next trip
    i often wish I could bring some of my boys and sweeties on but that trip
    can get scary and hearts beat so fast that limbs jerk and cheap rollercoasters don’t even understand that
    but I do so I travel alone and live.
    I don’t want to kill travelers on my trips which is why I travel alone….
    i love the monsters of best threads on interweb facia
    going deep into dark statik

  23. On the one hand, this person is an imbecile. On the other hand, the number of dislikes is an encouraging sign. It is like the rainbow after Noah’s flood.


    1. Only an imbecile if strange trans morphic betwixt human outlier distillation theories never met the goddamn blizzard smashing on the lonely planet cabin. Otherwise, derp love, the voice of the creature you link is projecting hostile anger under his/her tube cloak and aside from this so what? Lost merge genders should have a place in front of the fireplace, right? Cmon, lovely derpe,… transwannanabee is like a netted spaceship of peculiars with odd powers…
      the future earth will be a bar ofDerpetologists goddamn motherfuckers and whiny space unisex probes…
      deal with it Meastro Derpe

      1. “The future earth will be a bar of derpetologists and whiny space unisex probes”

        Unless civilization collapses, then we’ll be too busy trying not to starve. But with any luck we’ll continue to have the privilege of focusing on important made-up issues.

  24. Derpetologist is weatherwise a scaley goddamn aqua big band wrinkling a fucking forehead with fucking sweet caramel elephants. and smokey pink monkeys. and so on outside the brimming yachts, bro.

    1. “Not spending your money on certain GOP candidate” does not equal “supporting hillary”.

      Maybe they just think their money is better spent on policy-lobbying than trying to win an election with an economic populist like Trump

      1. Not spending 500 hundred million for Trump is spending 500 million for Clinton. It’s a two-party system.

    2. That is probably the most idiotic article I’ve read this weekend.

      1. Seemed a stretch at points, but basically pretty inarguable to me.

    3. Wow, Eric Zuesse, I not only haven’t seen him, but haven’t seen anything by him in years. So he’s gotten books out? I would take seriously anything he wrote or said.

  25. in the near future imagine all internet connections in a future America managed by Sean Hannitie’s Dream Orgasm determined by Homeland Media Security manned by a thousand Fusion agents county by county killing internet connection based on comments, poems, threads, and songs. Fusion agents acting for Progs and Right-wingers disconnecting our digital lives based on a Saudi Arabian Hyper Sterilitiy….

    You laff… be prepared please. It IS Coming…

    Fusion centers can flip a switch and county police given super digital powers not seen since the advent of binary communication will forever change the face of the optical illusion called the internet and this carpeted world in the hands of types like Hannity and Hillary has the real potential of dissolving online life. Praise DUMB FUCK SEAN AND GRANDMOTHER FUCKING DUMMY HILLARITY.

    Internet by agent.

    Dubai is on the wings. Rest assured.

  26. What you see on your screen can also be manipulated by forces aside from what your fingertips connecting with the activity of brain imagines…

    Your screen may not match mine.

    Rest assured that when and if you live your existence based on a screen the data transmitted into your mind may not necessarily reflect the purest reality…. this includes your goddamn TV.

  27. Matter of fact SCREENS in all the places of our lives should be treated like emotions…
    nice for sex, art, and sunsets…. let us talk otherwise and teach our children the same.
    and this includes the small screens.

    the eyes WERE once the windows to our souls, this has been replaced with screens which hide far more secrets…..

  28. you need proof that humans hide less than their screens?

    Fine, you FUCKING twat punching clit twister, how FUCKING bots live on dummy humans compared to FUCKING screens.

    Average goddamn digital creep carnival has maybe a minimum of 10 to 20 bots not including Hannities friends.

    Normal humans unattached to screens have maybe the odd bot inside their shitty lives and so on.

    Bots are screen crowds… Humans are deep sandwiches of pathology. FUCK the windows of binary hell.

    1. Humans are deep sandwiches of pathology.

      It really stinks being a bologna and american on white with mustard.

  29. Haven’t read all of the comments yet. Are we taking bets on whether there will be violence outside the DNC?

  30. Most exciting part of this whole article is Paul K being right for first time ever.

  31. Also, all crime is not “violent crime,” much less homicides. Property crime rates are up in SF and elsewhere.

    1. Is this a spammer, or somebody who posted the wrong link? I’m guessing the former.

  32. If there is no epidemic of gun violence and no increase in violent crime then what are these two up to when they say they will take action as POTUS to fix these non-existent problems? Could it be that they are propping up electoral support in their base of voters? Perhaps they are appealing to an issue that the broader electorate believes, wrongly, to exists? Both?

    Most troubling to me is that this tactic of furiously establishing and then killing a strawman works.

  33. It really stinks being a bologna and american on white with mustard.


  34. http://arstechnica.com/tech-po…..h-case/#p3

    After the non-consensual cavity searches, x-rays, and CT scan failed to find any drugs on her person, they told her she’d have to foot the hospital bill of she refused to sign the consent form.

    Another great argument against immunity.

  35. The homicide rate in the nation’s largest cities rose by 17% in 2015


    All of reason’s statistics stop at 2014. Maybe we should use current data rather than cherry picking? Just a thought.

    1. Lets see, 20+ year steady trend downward…one year up tick. ZMFG we’re all gonna die!!!!

      And speaking of cherry-picking wasn’t there a post showing that the ’50 biggest cities…’ stat is skewed heavily by just a few very bad places i.e. Chi and Balt etc.

      1. My point is that there is a reason why these messages are resonating. Reason acts like the public is stupid and is just imagining this. I don’t think so. I think the public gets a sense of where things are going and senses that things are getting less safe.

        And the fact that “things are still better than they were 20 years ago” doesn’t really answer the mail on this. So what? If the public feels things are getting more unsafe, they are going to want to act before things do deteriorate to what they once were. Life is relative. People have largely forgotten what it was like 20 years ago. What they know is what it is like now, and they feel like things are getting more disordered and unsafe. And that is likely not without reason.

        1. But people are stupid. Years ago, when I listened to Limbaugh the Dems were trying to paint a bleak picture of America, people felt that things were bad. Rush would point out that if you asked people how things were for them personally they’d say great,fine, couldn’t be better, it was everyone else that was suffering. If 99% of America is safe as houses, yet the public senses that things are turning to shit, I’d say that qualifies as unreasonable fear.

          People are stupid and pessimistic, it’s why doomsayers are always so successful at stirring up fear and panic. People are also narcissistic and want to believe they are living in important times, what’s more important an era where everything is just rolling along smoothly or one where our very existence is in peril and we must do something. It’s why every election is the most important one ever, and If my side doesn’t win its all over man, we’re done.

          People are stupid.

        2. A fifteen percent uptick in homocides in a selected portion of the nation (so the total uptick could be much lower – or higher) in a single year is not large enough to be seen on the street unless all the extra deaths are in the parts of town that are normally safe.

        3. Reason acts like the public is stupid and is just imagining this. I don’t think so. I think the public gets a sense of where things are going and senses that things are getting less safe.

          And they’re still wrong because an uptick in violence in Chicago or Baltimore does not indicate an uptick in violence in Jerkwater, USA where most people receptive to Trump’s message live.

          You’re really insistent we coddle these people because they’re so easily cowed by lies. If reason isn’t going to reach them than what’s the point?

          1. You are assuming everyone is myopic and stupid as you are. Apparently you think that if it is not happening to you right now or around you, it must not be a big deal. Other people seem to be a bit brighter and have the intellectual capacity to understand that what is happening in Chicago or Baltimore may someday affect where they are.

            1. I suffer from Presbyopia and I don’t assume, I know that most people is more stupider than me am.

              I think we have small pockets of big deals, and yes we should do something about it. I was responding to your ludicrous claim that because people feel bad there must be some truth, some reality to their fears. I guess instead of trying to make my own point I should have just posted that MIB quote about a person being smart but people being dumb…..

          2. Property crime is way up in San Francisco. Violent crime is only part of crime.

      2. It’s like the same “trick” the left uses. ie. 1 in 2 women are either raped or looked at every second of every day.

        1. No its not. Murder rates really are higher. They are not redefining murder to pretend it is bigger than it is.

      3. But it’s been such a sustained monotonic decline, it’s unsettling at least to see it having hit bottom, even if that bottom was so low by long term data. I know it couldn’t go down forever, but it makes you wonder.

  36. Is this about leaded gasoline?

  37. I left my office-job and now I am getting paid 98 usd hourly. How? I work over internet! My old work was making me miserable, so I was forced to try something different, 2 years after…I can say my life is changed-completely for the better! Check it out whaat i do…

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  38. I was going to read this but there’s so many darn words so I’ll just comment instead. We need to do something about all this out of control crime.

  39. I love how speeches and statistics are read in accordance with the bias of the reader.

    To my eyes/ears, Trump was talking not just about violent crime, but also illegal immigration. He is positioning himself as the only one who will enforce the laws. This is particular poignant with many voters who have seen the Obama administration openly refuse to enforce those same laws.
    Additionally, Trump was speaking to voters in cities where the crime rate has gone up. Not just violent crime, but non-violent crime as well. There are quite a number of cities in battleground states where there has been a noticeable uptick in crime in parallel with the influx of illegal immigrants. These same cities have been accused of even doctoring their stats to mask the problem. the voters there know what they see day-in day-out regardless of what the national stats say.
    There is a reason why he is resonating with growing numbers of voters, and using statistics to argue against what folks on the ground are seeing is kinda silly. Trumps “fear mongering” would fall utterly flat if it didn’t match the experiences of some voters

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