Libertarian Party

Gary Johnson May Be Running a General Election Race Already

Libertarian Party candidates offer perspectives on government and freedom you'll never get from the two major parties.

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Gage Skidmore

2012 Libertarian Party presidential candidate and former Republican New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson avoided offering up doctrinaire answers in the second part of the first-ever nationally televised Libertarian Party presidential debate, hosted by John Stossel, that aired on Fox Business tonight.

Johnson insisted the role of government was to keep people safe from individuals, governments, corporations, and other back answers, (in an answer about whether he'd abolish the Environmental Protection Agency) and refused to give a yes or no answer on legalizing sex work. A question from Fox News' Bill O'Reilly about the heroin "epidemic," however, did have Johnson point out "only" 8,000 people died from heroin last year, and that legalizing heroin would make it safer. He brought up a Swiss program that hands out free heroin to addicts.

Johnson and the other candidates, software guru John McAfee, and TheLibertarianRepublic.com proprietor Austin Petersen, had plenty of opportunities to articulate libertarian ideas about being skeptical of government and the superiority of the wisdom of markets to the idiocy of bureaucrats.

Toward the end, Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano asked the candidates how they'd preserve the Constitution. Petersen said he'd "protect it" but McAfee and Johnson took the opportunity to explain how they might change the Constitution. McAfee notes the Constitution permits a constitutional convention and says one is overdue for America, while Johnson took the chance to advocate for the repeal of the 17th Amendment, which institutes the direct election of Senators, saying that has driven a lot of government spending in the last hundred years.

In the after-debate analysis, Fox Business host Kennedy said Johnson "made the best practical case" for libertarianism of the three candidates, while Reason's Matt Welch noted Johnson is still "tentative" in what he believes. Tonight, Johnson came off more like a moderate Republican who is skeptical of government than anything else, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. At the end, Johnson offered a hodgepodge of principles he would pursue, from small government to individual liberty to term limits to ending crony capitalism to women's equality.

A recent Gallup poll showed more Americans identify with a libertarian politics than anything else, even if they can't articulate it that way. As I wrote earlier today, one of the most important functions of the Libertarian Party presidential race is education. Johnson, and to a lesser extent McAfee, attempted to do that on the debate stage last night, not just lobbing crowd pleasers for the libertarian-friendly studio audience but trying to explain how libertarian ideas work in practice and why they would be better for America. There's something a bit paradoxical about libertarians running for government office but there doesn't have to be. Government has grown over the last hundred to two hundred years in large part because of popular desire—libertarians are needed within the political system, and not just outside of it, to push against that trend and convince people that if more government has meant more problems so far, more government can only mean even more problems moving forward.

NEXT: Bernie's Job Interview, Lessons From the Panama Papers, and Racial Disparities in Cop Violence: The Fifth Column Podcast Returns

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  1. OMG, you mean there’s a Libertarian establishment, and Gary Johnson is part of it?

    I guess I am, too.

    Johnson 2016!

    1. +2020. We deserve 8 long Johnson years.

    2. Can we change the GayJay picture? What’s with the “this is how many times I banged your mom last night” gesture and facial expression?

      1. He looks like he stayed up all night studying for the wrong test.

        1. *looks at pic*
          Yours’ makes sense.

      2. Hopefully no one in the UK saw that pic.

        1. I thought this too.

        2. Why?

          1. Because it’s an offensive gesture there…and we wouldn’t want the British to not vote libertarian in a US election now would we?

      3. Wait… he’s NOT gay?

        *furiously reconsiders options*

        1. Well, maybe if you vote for him.

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    4. until I looked at the paycheck which had said $8287 , I be certain that my cousin was like they say actually bringing home money part time from their computer. . there dads buddy has been doing this 4 only 11 months and resently cleard the dept on their place and purchased a great GMC . look at this web-sit CHECK IT HERE????? http://www.elite36.com

  2. A recent Gallup poll showed more Americans identify with a libertarian politics than anything else, even if they can’t articulate it that way.

    As long as you cut the other guys pork first. Did I articulate the American position?

    1. If you slow cook it, you don’t need to cut pork at all. It falls apart.

      1. Works for frog, too.

      2. These masturbation euphemisms are getting pretty abstract.

    2. E’rbody’s a libertarian…until they hear the ice cream free shit truck pull into the neighborhood.

      1. Dear Self,

        Don’t get Ice Cream with Stevie G…..

        Yours,

        Self

  3. I found the debate pretty pleasant. No one was just on fire with brilliance, and the stuff like the part where they all claimed environmental protection would just happen if left alone…I can see how that would turn off anyone used to voting for big parties. But, I think all three of those guys would be good presidents who increase liberty and decrease spending, and I could absolutely vote for any of them in a Trump election and be happy with it.

    Stossel did a nice job too, his devil’s advocate shtick plays well to force more vigorous defense of the libertarian ideology; it helps us little to come out and make unchallenged libertarian statements when nonlibertarians don’t accept the basic premise.

    1. Petersen is a tool.

      1. He’s awesome. Just ask him.

        1. That was my takeaway from the debate here in San Antonio too. I think he’s good on policy and philosophy, but he’s, we’ll, kind of a tool.

          1. You just hate him because he’s beautiful.

            However, Peterson did score a solid when he corrected and one upped McAfee’s promise to pardon all non-violent drug prisoners since Presidential authority only extends to Federal convicts, but that he would direct DEA to reschedule everything to zero.

      2. Whose tool? Peterson debates a damn sight better than Gary. Who besides Bob Barr and the cross-dresser have we ever run who is less appealing than Gary?

        1. No. Petersen came across as rehearsed with a bunch of Libertarian Bumper sticker sayings. Sorry.
          Besides, I also look at past voting records. Petersen and McAffee have none.

    2. Who is this Glide guy? I like the knot of his tie.

      1. Accuse him of being Tulpa. Its like a rite of passage.

        1. I disavow both David Duke and Tulpa.

    3. The debate was terrible, but I’m glad someone televised it. The answers were like 10 seconds. Libertarian political positions need more time to be articulated fairly. The candidates were answering like it was a libertarian Q&A over pizza, instead of answering like they might actually be president.

  4. GayJay is by far the worst of the three.

    1. Great, that automatically makes him the most electable.

      1. “electable”

        lol!

        1. 1% electable is better than 0%.

          1. Why would Johnson draw anymore votes than the other potential nominees? He doesn’t have any campaigning skills at all. McAfee’s got the name recognition and most intriguing life story. Petersen has the new media savvy and self-promotional drive.

            1. Because Johnson has a history of executive leadership and success. He’s also not a prick, or a burnout with a potential murder case problem.

              Petersen says NOTHING that a college freshmen doesn’t say. He comes off as a republican, or a young trump. Macafee is nuts. You know what his profile pic was? Him holding a gun to his head. Really? I though there was some sanity among the commentariat.

              1. Executive leadership isn’t a qualification or an asset in a Libertarian Party candidate. No one’s voting for him because he’s “ready to serve”. We need a candidate with at least SOME communication skills. Principles help too. Something GayJay is sorely lacking.

                1. Or, someone who broke the 1% barrier and recently polled in the double digits? But no, let’s shoot ourselves in the foot.

                  1. Johnson didn’t break 1%. Nominating a retread loser Republican is shooting yourself in the foot.

                    1. One who sees those three on stage and finds victory not in someone who has successfully led, but the other two, is irrational.

                    2. Victory? You are baked.

                      Remember why GayJay droped out of the 2012 GOP race on the eve of the NH primary? He wasn’t showing up in the polls, not even 0.1%. He was still on the ballot and got buried by the other 4th tier candidates.

                2. Haven’t seen the FBN debates, but Johnson was definitely not timid or too laid back here tonight. Softer on principle than Petersen, McAfee, or Feldman (who I kinda like, but lacks polish).

                3. When the alternatives are Clinton and Trump, you need a candidate who is ready to win, and serve as president. They have to be a serious person with a serious record of accomplishment that independent voters can feel safe voting for. McAfee is 1 for 2. Peterson is 0 for 2. Johnson passes both tests. He’s not a great speaker or debater, but neither was John Anderson.

              2. I though there was some sanity among the commentariat

                Um… aah… err… what?

              3. None of them are going to win.

                1. Winning is not this years goal.

                  1. Winning ought to be this year’s goal. Clinton-Trump has people looking for viable alternatives.

              4. He also does not obnoxiously disavow the NAP like Peterson.

                Not Austin Peterson.

        2. “Electable” is a loaded expression the entrenched Kleptocracy uses to misdirect voters from the law-changing multiplier effect of spoiler votes. Libertarians are not voting for a grinning idiot with a hand in the till for “our” jobs and boodle, but for the future of freedom. When the LP gets 3% of the vote, as happens routinely in Texas, people like antiabortion Congressman Ram Johnston LOSE to pro-choice suffragettes. They then learn it was because of that because of that 3% libertarian vote to strengthen the Bill of Rights. Ram’s hand would be in the till for gubmint paychecks were it not for mystical bigots on God’s Only Platform committee making the election all about forcing women to reproduce at gunpoint. When I vote for Gary, Austin or that new virus guy and the laws again change as they have changed our way since 1972, I WIN. The election is about me winning, not some politician grinning.

  5. Have I mentioned I like Stossel?

    1. I’m jealous of his magnificent facial hair.

  6. Despite the imperfections I’m a sucker for Johnson.

    1. Gary Johnson needs a running mate named John Garrison.

      1. His 3 cent titanium tax goes too far!

  7. Ok. I’ve decided Johnson really needs to recruit LL Cool James for VP.

  8. There’s something a bit paradoxical about libertarians running for government office

    Not at all. Just promise to cut, cut, cut and then go the hell away after two terms.

    1. Libertarians are not anarchist.

      1. Are you new here?

    2. LP candidates run on the platform so that your spoiler votes can repeal prohibition and the draft, legalize porn and weed, let Uber compete, keep SWAT teams from no-knock raiding your home, keep looters from confiscating your home while you are forced to pay off the mortgage. WINNING is all of those things, not having a slug like Gary (no offense) or a beginner like Austin help us win. These candidates are changing the laws every time they get 3% of the vote–even though the looters cheat by counting only 1 out of 3 secret, unverifiable ballots. The Kleptocracy understands this perfectly…

      1. Thank you Alex Jones

  9. Gary Johnson 2016

    “A Republican Who Smokes Pot”

    Way to transcend the stereotype. I hope the LP chooses the wise course and nominates John McAfee.

    1. Yes, wise to select someone who had to abscond with minimal luggage from belezian police questioning… SURE.

      1. GayJay is goofy and boring. Most importantly, in the year of the outsider why run a Republican politician? His experience is not an asset.

        1. Bullshit. People will only vote for trump because they hate hillary more, and vice versa.

          1. Trump is leading because he’s not a TEAM player. He’s running against both parties

            1. I’d vote for Trump because he is single handedly destroying the repugnican party, good riddance. Now to find someone who will destroy the democrap party.

      2. Have you been to Belize? I could tell you stories, and I was only there for a week.

        Here is one for starters. The guy who owns the only beer brewery in Belize got himself elected and than made it illegal to sell any other brand of beer in the country.

        1. A good friend is Belizian and got most of his family out of there. The government/politicians can be downright nasty when you amass some wealth and you start turning down “favors”. Hearing about his and other people’s ordeal certainly pushes me towards McAfee’s side of the story.

          1. “Hearing about his and other people’s ordeal certainly pushes me towards McAfee’s side of the story.”

            It doesn’t really matter. Most people are going to assume he’s a loon. Running him as a candidate would be a long term negative.

          2. “Hearing about his and other people’s ordeal certainly pushes me towards McAfee’s side of the story.”

            It doesn’t really matter. Most people are going to assume he’s a loon. Running him as a candidate would be a long term negative.

        2. Belize navidad,
          Belize navidad,
          Belize navidad,
          Prospero a?o y belizidad.

        3. I lived there for a couple of years.

        4. was it good beer?

      3. If you can’t stand Johnson, Feldman is best choice. He passes all libertarian litmus tests. His lbertarian rap that concluded the debate was fantastic. Also his unabashed willingness to call Trump an asshole.

        1. That was the Texas debate last night. Stossel didn’t invite him of course.

    2. Would you rather have a “Democrat” who smokes pot?

      1. Damned NYC GOP! He might well not have gotten in office if they’d taken my advice and backed me on a run for the Libertarian ticket!

    3. I hope the LP chooses the wise course and nominates John McAfee.

      Because the last ten nominees weren’t crazy enough!?

    4. Austin at least understood that the Executive Branch does not tamper with the Constitution one way or another. And the prez has exactly zero role in amending the Constitution.

  10. The proper function of government is to defend individual negative liberty with the retaliatory use of force, period. Any answer from a libertarian concerning government other than that is bullshit and cowardly.

    1. Johnson will protect your positive right to force people to bake you a cake

      1. Not a federal issue.

        1. No but it violates a first principle. You’d have to be as baked as GayJay to think he’s going anywhere except back to his “canabisness”.

          1. Gary’s canabusiness would not exist were it not for the tens of millions of Libertarian votes the looters struggle to evade, blink, blank out, ignore, wheedle, discourage, lie about, steal or defraud. Abortion would still be illegal, and your kids spend their formative decades in prisons or be drafted and shot to please God’s Own Prohibitionists.

        2. The concept of business as being “public accommodation” and therefore forbidden to discriminate in choosing with whom to do business is absolutely a federal issue. The various ‘solutions’ of this issue being put forward all merely create a new protected class based on religion, and only deal with gay issues, rather than solving the real issue by eliminating the concept of specially protected classes. If I am going to vote for a pragmatist politician who avoids third rail issues, I am going to vote for one who could be elected.

        3. Not a federal issue.

          Yet. GayJay has given every indication he would sign that legislation if it crossed his desk as president.

      2. A hash cake?

    2. Fair nuff.

      But do you think the average American voter will understand that or that the current clusterfuck can be unwound any way except incrementally?

      It might be a better plan to tread softly and build upon small gains rather than scare the shit outta the straights with legal heroin and a roadless America. In this respect, GayJo may be the smartest choice.

      1. Oh, it would take a libertarian being elected President for the next 20 years to get any real reforms. Congress rules the domestic roost. He could maybe end some of the wars and reschedule cannabis. So progress will be slow anyway why not attract attention by being bold? Look at Trump. Our message is more freedom, how is that not attractive?

        1. Because too bold (read different) and they immediately throw up the shields. Need to plant the seed, let it grow and make them believe it was their idea.

          1. No, they aren’t going to win anyway why not be radical. That’s how we plant the seed, stuff it down their throat. Who is John Galt?

            1. Creech answers this below:

              Most libertarians I know were a lot weaker in their libertarian views when first attracted to the ideas. They learned more and more as they interacted with “purer” libertarians, read books, heard lectures. Why be afraid of attracting tens, hundreds, of thousands of such people? Get their nose in the tent.

              The goal is to get more people interested in liberty. Challenging their most ingrained beliefs, right out of the box, will turn them away. If you do it slowly, with issues most will agree with, they will be more receptive to applying the philosophy to their more ingrained convictions. (e.g. start with pot…work your way up to legalizing all drugs.)

              Just my .02

              1. It hasn’t worked for the last 45 years. Radical for liberty or bust!

          2. It’s The Emperor’s New Clothes. 3/4 of all people are blind to anything “others” do not point to. But as Friedman pointed out, the commies got their entire 1920 platform written into U.S. law (as the Nationalsocialists got theirs enacted into German law). Persistence, courage and integrity in voting change the laws. Otherwise how do you explain the income tax moving from the communist manifesto of 1848 to the 16th Amendment of 1913? Why did Congress do that if not to keep those government paychecks coming in among the spoiler votes?

            1. “Otherwise how do you explain the income tax moving from the communist manifesto of 1848 to the 16th Amendment of 1913?”

              Illuminati.

        2. Ending the wars is the most important thing that needs to happen

  11. I wouldn’t vote for Gary with someone else’s Johnson.

  12. 2 scoops of raisins?

    Am I even close in figuring out the alt-text?

    1. Needz more millenial.

      1. 2 scoop of ironic raisins?

  13. I’m pretty sure none of them will be elected president. So the question for the LP delegates is which candidate (among these three or the others also seeking the LP nomination) will do the most to advance the goals of the LP?
    Which will draw the most attention among non-libertarians and bring them into the libertarian orbit? Are their views so outside the libertarian mainstream that we risk ruining the brand name? Most libertarians I know were a lot weaker in their libertarian views when first attracted to the ideas. They learned more and more as they interacted with “purer” libertarians, read books, heard lectures. Why be afraid of attracting tens, hundreds, of thousands of such people? Get their nose in the tent. Or did David Nolan intend the LP would only be for those who agreed
    100/100 with the Quiz?

    1. Instead of throwing a bunch of kooks at the presidency in a demonstration of silly hopelessness, I rather favor worrying about which Libertarians can get elected to sheriff, town council, state representative, etc.

      Must it be an all-or-nothing Hail Mary? Even if, by some ungodly miracle, that works, a Libertarian president would still be odd-man-out among 535 entrenched party politicians.

      Just a thought.

      1. One with veto power.

        1. He’d also be in charge of all those executive branch offices that simply write their own rules.

          And then there are Judicial nominations.

    2. If our candidate were elected I’ll lay odds the looters would again switch the ballots for perhaps the thousandth time and say they’d won. But it would scare the crap out of them. The Republicans would immediately tar and feather God’s Own Partisans and quit bullying women. The Democrats would make commies and econazis disappear faster’n an Argentine Christian dictatorship. The changes have already been phenomenal. We forced Tricky to end the draft, and the Senile Court to take abortion, birth control and porn off the political planks table. Federal unproductive hands are diminishing in number. Our only competitors are the rotting CPUSA, some mindless Econazis and the insane televangelists divided among the Prohibition, Tea and Constitution [sic] parties. We have already WON all these things by having the wits and guts to cast a vote with integrity.

  14. Given that winning isn’t really an option, I’m just picturing which of the 3 I would want on a debate stage against Hillary and T.rump. If the point is to get the message out effectively, I think McAfee would be the one to do it.

    Petersen is too easy to dismiss offhand, and Johnson simply doesn’t come across as a serious candidate on a national stage. McAfee suffers neither of those problems. Sure, the press will tear him to shreds, but he has a gravitas that inspires people to listen to what he has to say.

    1. If the point is to get the message out effectively, I think McAfee would be the one to do it.

      ^Absolutely this^

      1. I agree with a caveat that while he has the most upside he also has the greatest possibility of blowing up disastrously.

        1. GasyJay blows up disastrously every time he opens his mouth.

          1. Gary is certain to be boring and uninspiring. McAfee has a good chance of being the smartest most appealing candidate on the stage between Trump and Clinton. He also has a chance of deciding to flake out spectacularly. I think libertarianism needs to take the risk, so I agree with you that he should be the candidate, but he is definitely a guy who might just decide to light the world on fire just to watch it burn.

            1. he is definitely a guy who might just decide to light the world on fire just to watch it burn.

              World needs a backfire.

    2. McAfee definitely knows how to slow play a room. Tonight, for his opening and closing, the first few seconds were just a smile. His voice and attitude are the polar opposite of Petersen, but his conviction shows in spite of that.

    3. Any of the three are a damn sight better than the entire DemoGOP in Congress assembled to rob and murder with impunity.

  15. the first-ever nationally televised Libertarian Party presidential debate

    This is horseshit. CSPAN televised LP conventions since the 80’s. Unlike the major parties, the LP doesn’t have primaries. The presidential candidate is chosen at the convention. A debate is customary.

    1. The LP has had presidential primaries. For instance, Andre Marrou won a NH Libertarian presidential primary in 1992.

  16. The only good thing I can say about GayJay is he did nothing to outlaw cockfighting when he was New Mexico’s governor. (His successor Bill Richardson did that).

    1. What was his stance on cock magic?

  17. You gotta hand it to Johnson. He’s ex-governor of a state that is almost completely dependent on federal spending– most of it of the DoD type– and then turns around and complains about the size of government. Can someone just follow him around with a fucking laugh track? Because That would be great.

    I’m beginning to think this whole libertarian thing is some big ol’ projection and that some of its loudest devotees are probably getting fat stacks from Uncle Sam. I mean, I have a private sector job and pay gobs of taxes, but I have no generalized animus to the public sector and think it does work that no one else will and provides good paying jobs where there would be poverty. No doubt… I fucking hate the military and the DEA and the TSA, but can we just throw those bums out and keep the guys that keep the parks open and the streams clean, please?

    1. The streams are far from clean, my friend. The Chesapeake Bay is a disaster. That is what government environmental protection gets you. Libertarian environmental protection is far more restrictive. The government threw out property right protections against pollution to help out industry fatcats and then spent the next 50 years trying to get some of it back through regulation in response to the outrage of the populace.

      1. When do you think the environment was cleaner? In the 40s and 50s. There were all kinds of industrial accidents and people dying of cancer because of industrial activity? What is your model?

        1. The environment is cleaner now that ever before since large-scale industrial revolution started. This does not mean it is clean enough. My model is based on support for the free market with strong property rights protection and expansion of property rights into new areas. If you pollute someone’s property, you are liable for damages. This would essential eliminate all pollution from water, since you can’t prevent pollution from diluting from one area to another where someone has property rights. If you are serious about learning about this approach, check out the Property and Environment Research Center: http://www.perc.org/

          1. You mean these guys? http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..rch_Center

            “…PERC under its old name, received $603,600 from Bradley Foundation and $640,775 from Olin Foundation.

            Other funding has come from Sarah Scaife, JM Foundation, Lambe Foundation, McKenna Foundation, Earhart Foundation, Koch”

            Quick question: do you guys ever venture too far from the same old same old? Maybe the reason why the environment is better now is because we have a whole raft of environmental laws that don’t allow corporations to maximize profit by dumping their shit in someone else’s backyard.

            You have to laugh at libertarians who seriously propose that private property owners that damage other’s property should be responsible for that damage. This makes for a fine thought experiment in a college poli sci course as an academic exercise, but you have to have a screw loose to believe this kind of absolute pie-in-the-sky eyewash would work in the real world. Good luck taking on BP’s Love Boat of lawyers if you want to sue them for the tar balls that all of a sudden have appeared on your property and, oh yeah, try getting that ruling from a judge appointed by friends of the Olin Foundation that seem incredulous that some think you can get cancer from carcinogens.

            No. Thanks, but no thanks. I’d rather stick with the EPA and other regulatory agencies than having to spend the next 15 years tied up in court where– maybe– your estate gets a couple bucks from Exxon.

            1. Uh, the EPA, the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, the Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement and the Coast Guard all failed completely to prevent the BP blowout. Your answer to failed government is more government! Just like 9/11.

            2. Quick question: do you guys ever venture too far from the same old same old?

              From the retarded cunt whose ideology was last updated in 1848. Fucking priceless.

    2. The Feds own 35% of New Mexico. That’s a lot of payment in lieu of taxes. White Sands? Defense is the most basic constitutional requirement of the federal government. Without those missiles we’d all be speaking Russian as we perused the empty state store shelves until the secret police haul us off to the gulags.

    3. I have no generalized animus to the public sector and think it does work that no one else will and provides good paying jobs where there would be poverty

      Because it is every citizen’s responsibility to provide do-nothing, “good paying jobs” to people who otherwise have nothing productive to contribute.

      work that no one else will

      LOL that’s why every pubsec job doesn’t have a miles-long waiting list of folks angling for sweet bennies and an early retirement.

      1. I know I need a gun poked in my ribs to clean my driveway.

      2. “Because it is every citizen’s responsibility to provide do-nothing, “good paying jobs” to people who otherwise have nothing productive to contribute.”

        Depends on the job. I think some guy sitting on his bunghole on the demilitarized zone in Korea pretty much has nothing productive to contribute. A scientist at the NIH working on basic research to cure cancer maybe is contributing. I say we just have a purely pragmatic approach– stripping away government where it sucks or causes more problems than its worth and doing the opposite where it makes lives better.

        1. The only way it makes life better is by defending individual negative liberty. Whenever it initiates force it makes it worse. We call that tyranny.

        2. So without government, people wouldn’t do cancer research? That’s a strange position to take.

          1. With a proper government we eould have

            1. Try again.

              With a proper government we would soon have biological immortality.

          2. Did I say something even close to this?

    4. See? The looters are soiling their jodphurs at the thought of us getting 2% of the vote. Their income tax is a monument that proves that by voting, we win. They have proven themselves looting murderers in Paris, Russia, Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Rumania… everywhere. Ours is the unknown ideal.

  18. Public Shelter Living

    The good ol’ days when men were men, and women wore flouncy dresses waiting for the apocalypse.

    1. Winter quarter in my 8th and 8th grade P.E. class was 3 days in the gym and 2 days of watching Civil Defense training films. I later used that training and knowledge to find the morphine syrettes had been removed from the medical supplies stored in the basement of my freshman college dorm. The important thing was I knew exactly where to look without tearing everything apart after picking the lock.

    2. And they cooked pies.

  19. A recent Gallup poll showed more Americans identify with a libertarian politics than anything else, even if they can’t articulate it that way

    Of the occasionally stupid things that get repeated here, this is possibly the apex-fucking-stupidest.

    The same people who feel entirely comfortable suggesting that “libertarian politics” is indicated by the broadest-conception of “socially liberal-ish, economically-conservative-ish” as revealed by polls…

    …are the same people who will later turn on a dime and say that “libertarianism is total-adherence to the NAP = full stop”…

    ….OR, will declare that holding certain policy positions OTHER than the most extreme & impractical libertarian ideal (see: “Open Borders Immigration” / ideological Non-Interventionism, etc.) instantly invalidates one from being part of the libertarian family

    IOW, they pretend that its “a big tent” whenever they want to say that ‘data shows something positive about us!’…

    ….but when it comes to actually supporting libertarian(ish) goals in the public-policy realm? everyone is declared unfit because they fail to meet various purity tests. And consequently you’re left forever having your little policy debates with the stoner-candidates on public-access at 3AM.

    Yes, i’m being hyperbolic and jaded. But for fucks sake, sometimes it seems libertarians completely lack the ability to see themselves through ‘normal’ eyes.

    1. Yeah, if one deviates from your boilerplate right-wing politics it’s best not to argue with them. I get that.

    2. I took the road less travelled for a reason. Fellow travellers are not welcome unless they line up directly behind me. And don’t step on my shadow. (That’s a reference to the Japanese tradition of wives walking 3 steps behind their husbands).

      1. And dipshit shows up just in time to illustrate my point. There’s no need to pick fights with people who agree with you 70~80% of the time when you have multitudes that fundamentally disagree with you.

        1. There’s no need to pick fights with people who agree with you 70~80% of the time when you have multitudes that fundamentally disagree with you.

          of course, but those are the fights which people seem to relish the most. People get to wave their nolan charts around and go, “look at me! more purist than you!” As though anyone’s keeping score.

          1. Tom woods podcast today is a debate on libertarians for Trump between Walter Block and (?). All the elements for a shitstorm, but, despite strong disagreement, they both recognized that liberty was their opponent’s desire.

            1. I subscribe to Tom Woods channel & podcasts, but never take the time to listen to them. I’ve liked what i heard.

              1. I commute by bicycle usually and listen to podcasts by Woods, Jason Stapleton or some of the Free State dudes. Personally I agree most with Larkin Rose, but he gets way too combative. Treat your enemies worse than you treat a casual friend.

                1. I like Tom Woods. He is probably my favorite yokeltarian. Good guy.

          2. The way I see it, everyone has the right to not agree with me and be wrong.

    3. STFU and VOTE TRUMP

      Also, how the fuck aren’t The Troggs in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame? They should have been inducted last century.

      1. And how the fuck IS James Taylor in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame?

    4. Libertarians watch DemoGOP teevee instead of looking through the way laws are changed. OF COURSE the looters don’t want us casting any principled spoiler votes! But now citizens can see that their police are the Gestapo and SS all over again, and that there is not a dime’s worth of difference among the kleptocracy candidates. They took the precaution of killing Aaron Swartz just to make sure he did not trigger a turning point.
      The changes our votes have already made speak for themselves. The second derivative has likely turned from slaveward to freedomward, and instead of looking with both eyes, you flip on the corporate teevee and let them sully your thoughts. Naziism is your brain on teevee!

  20. …libertarians are needed within the political system, and not just outside of it, to push against that trend and convince people that if more government has meant more problems so far, more government can only mean even more problems moving forward.

    I was informed, right here on H&R, by the super smart commentariat, that if you work for the government then you can’t be a libertarian, and should be fed to the woodchipper, post haste.

    1. SASSY.

      Good thing we never listen to anybody.

  21. As someone who voted for him twice… Gay Jay sucks this time around.

    He’s gonna lose. It’s a foregone conclusion. Would it kill him to stick to his guns on principle?

    As of right now, Johnson represents my views on government no more than your average Republican does.

    1. Trump is more libertarian than Johnson and Trump is no libertarian.

    2. “He’s gonna lose. It’s a foregone conclusion.”

      That is funny, you say that as if he ever had a chance of winning, ever.

  22. Sleeping woman woken up, cops ask where she kept her gun. When she found it….

    Gardner police got a 911 call on March 26, 2015 that Deanne Choate, 54, had been drinking alcohol, was suicidal and had a gun. When police arrived they immediately handcuffed and arrested Choate’s boyfriend and removed him from the home, then found Deanne Choate sleeping naked in her bed, her daughter says in the Feb. 25 complaint.
    After waking her up, officers questioned her for eight minutes, repeatedly asking, “Where is the gun?”
    “Deanne was obviously not carrying or concealing on her person any type of weapon,” her daughter says.
    “During this time, officers came and went from the room. They looked under the sheets of the bed.” They stayed in the room “with the naked, 115-pound woman” and finally gave her a sweatshirt to wear, according to the complaint.
    After repeatedly demanding, “Where is the gun?” and “We know you have a gun,” Deanne finally “complied with officers’ request and produced a handgun, stating, ‘Oh, here it is.'”
    Then they shot her to death.

    1. aarrrrrrgrrggggggggg

      there needs to be a rule = no nutpunches after midnight. esp on weekend.

    2. police got a 911 call

      I learned this trick in the AM Links.

    3. Hamster, you suck. Now I gotta go to bed thinking about that poor lady.

      1. I do. I really do.

        In parting, take with you this particularly awesome song performed by incredible people who are also dead.

        It’s a Backstreet Boys world, man, and at the end of the day there’s just not enough alcohol for this bullshit.

    4. I had that happen to me once, actually.

      You point to where the gun is.

    5. The End. Roll Credits.

  23. Just to reiterate, the Gallup poll Mr. Krayewski cites is crap. Here’s one of the questions:

    “Some people think the government should promote traditional values in our society. Others think the government should not favor any particular set of values. Which comes closer to your own view?”

    They left out the obvious third option, “the government should promote *non*-traditional values.” Why leave that option out? It’s what the government is doing now, and it’s what Johnson would do with his nazi cakes and gay cakes.

    Use Gallup’s phrasing, and lots of leftards will say “the government shouldn’t favor any particular set of values.” Because the question reinforces their belief that by promoting Fairness and Justice – which no rational person could be against – the government is genuinely being neutral, and that it’s only those awful fundies who are trying to shove their values down everyone’s throat.

    To sum up, the Gallup poll is crap.

    1. It’s like you’ve never taken a statistics class, Eddie.

      I actually thought it was a great class, but… well, I’m a damned weirdo.

      1. Statistics class teaches you to leave out key options on polls?

        1. “Some libertarians support McAfee, while others support Petersen. Which of these two options best describes your position?”

        2. Statistics teaches you that it’s quite possible to convince people that everyone else believes 2+2 = 6.8, if you arrange it right.

          1. Ah, you mean “how to lie with statistics.”

            1. Welll… no. It doesn’t teach you to lie with statistics, but anyone who leaves the class with the impression that statistics are reliable, infallible measurement tools probably got a shitty grade.

              1. What’s with the straw-manning? All I said was the poll left out a relevant option and therefore is full of crap.

                Krayewski is the one who seems to be citing the polls as infallible.

                1. Um, the.. what, Eddie?

                  Is this not reading as if I were a big cynic, or what? I’m not getting where you’re coming from here.

                  1. And I’m afraid I don’t understand your point.

                    Krayewski cites a poll as authoritative, I point out that the poll leaves out a key option and is therefore full of crap, and you say I should take a statistics class.

                    1. OK, I see you weren’t actually disagreeing with me, sorry about that.

                    2. But, seriously, some poll questions are less misleading than others.

                      Giving all three options would have made the poll somewhat more accurate, though not of course infallible.

                    3. Yeah, I was going for this whole cynical sympathy thing. Sorry, ought to have made that a bit more obvious.

                      You’re doing the right thing. Check the questions, check the math, and trust that it’s nothing more than a variably-accurate temperature check with limited application.

                    4. the poll is crap for reasons far beyond the lack of a “3rd question”

                      the only set of Q’s i’ve ever seen that actually seem to properly identify ‘libertarian’ leanings are the nolan-chart style questionnaires which offer at least 4 possible choices in a range of a dozen or so policy areas. there’s simply no other way to identify the consistent application of any ‘principles’ other than to try to tease them out via a variety of possible scenarios. and the result of most of those things is the discovery that most people don’t apply “principles” at all, but rather some mix of what they think of as ‘common sense’, compassion, or expedience.

                    5. OK, I’m not a fan of polls, but even compared to other polls, this one is absolutely appalling.

                      At a time when the government is actively promoting *non*-traditional values, telling respondents that there are only two options, neutrality or promoting traditional values, is shameful.

                      The push-polls voters get on the eve of an election are more neutrally phrased than this. And it’s *Gallup* doing it.

          2. If you pull it off, you are guaranteed 66% will vote for 6.8 as proven by Solomon Asch in 1955. This is why we need to focus on leveraging with spoiler votes IN ADDITION TO praying for the looters to murder each other or drop dead before November.

  24. “Stossel, get me two.”

  25. It’s not like Johnson is abandoning libertarian purism on some fringe issue which wouldn’t get any traction, anyway.

    I mean, it would be one thing if he said, “I think the government should own the major highways.” OK, then, so that issue’s off the table, since the major-party candidates agree with you.

    But to say, “I think the government should force people to make nazi cakes and gay cakes,” is to promote the anti-liberty side in an ongoing dispute where the liberty side still has a fighting chance. It is to take a less libertarian stance than the Republicans, which is pretty impressive since the Republican high command is to liberty what the French high command is to France – prepared to surrender it at a moment’s notice.

    It’s pulling the rug out from those who *are* fighting for the right of “…private organizations…to set whatever standards of association they deem appropriate” (to quote the Libertarian platform).

    It’s pissing on the conservatives and religious folks, confirming every anti-libertarian prejudice they have. It’s saying, basically, “liberty is for gays and pot smokers, not for people like you.” So much for getting votes on the right as well as on the left.

    1. Maybe we could record the platform as an mp3 file so Gary can sleep-learn it?

  26. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME!

      1. Now send her back to the kitchen to make another cake, because she’s ruined that one.

        1. If she refuses, have Gary Johnson *make* her do it.

          1. I just made your birthday relevant to the thread, you’re welcome.

          2. I didn’t think GJ tried to make any woman do anything.

        2. That’s my mom!

    1. On April 9th, 1977, this song was number one.

      Happy birthday to you!

      1. This was number one the day of my birth.

        ://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v83UX1AY8Gs

  27. I’m #FeelinJohnson and proud! #GaryJohnson2016

    1. #TimefortheJewstoFireUpTheirOvens

  28. Hanging out with Alex Jones, shooting a .50 bmg, How I Escaped from Belize

    Speaking of InfoWars, et.al., it’s interesting how this (British) documentary about gets right into the “guns and paranoia” aspect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vte2VIGH3Q

    1. https://youtu.be/8Vte2VIGH3Q?t=8m31s
      Samantha is so cute. “A big long table with… science stuff”.

    2. Jesus! In that video, he sold out his friends who misdirected the authorities by sending them to the wrong city/hideout.

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  34. Gary Johnson is not a Libertarian. He might be Tea Party acceptable. John McAfee on the other hand is much closer to being Libertarian but in his heart I think he is truly an Anarchist and I love him for it. He was right about needing a Constitutional Convention. The original Constitution gave a men and women equality under the law. It was politicians that chose to inhibit the rights of selected groups (Irish, Blacks Women etc) overr the years not the Constitution. By adding Amendments to the Constitution to give those groups rights you are saying in essence that they are inferior instead of just admitting that your fellow politicians stole those groups Constitutional rights in the first place. McAfee was also right about the fact of term limits and that power breeds corruption. Gary Johnson was right about returning Senators as appointees of the States but for different reasons. By being appointed they are more apt to protect States rights. All and all McAfee gets my vote. Oh I didn’t forget about Peterson it was he just seemed to we’ll rehearsed to be sincere for ke.

    1. Austin is the most competent and promising. All he has to do is attract votes and the looters will soil themselves in their haste to change laws, just as they always have when third parties cut into their racket.

      1. Right on Hank! I’m trying to make a case for supporting an AP nomination to any who will listen. He is capable of capturing a significant amount of conservative defections from the GOP (especially if Trump is the presumptive nominee), a significant amount of youth votes, and Ls. The socially liberal, economic conservative Ds are as rare as leprechauns riding unicorns, but they would find a footing on an L platform also. The key metric is the 15% polling to get on the MAIN STAGE. If AP can get to the stage he will slay. Victory in a general election is possible, but not likely, so spreading the message is the game here. I just don’t see McAfee, or especially Johnson, pitching the L brand as well as AP has demonstrated he is capable of already.

  35. Oh, it would take a libertarian being elected President for the next 20 years to get any real reforms.

    Not at all. The president technically is co-equal with the other two branches, and is sworn to defend the Constitution – which includes encroachment by those other branches.

    So a libertarian president could go through the federal agencies and abolish agencies / pinkslip any employees doing stuff not mentioned in Article 1, Section 8. Massive, immediate downsizing of leviathan. Gone, EPA, HUD, etc.

    Then wait for Congress to try to impeach based on NOT following the Constitution.

    1. The President can’t fire that easily. I thought the same thing but it’s not possible with hiring laws and contracts and blahblahblah…

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  38. “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.” -Emma Goldman.1869 ? 1940.

    Elections are “an advance auction of stolen goods.” H.L. Mencken

    Bottom line: It really makes no difference which clown gets elected, the deep state will carry on exactly as before.

    In other words:” New boss same as the old boss” as Pete Townsend once said.

    Or, “Dream On”?:

    “……In your dream, Donald Trump is not a fraud,
    In your dream, Sanders is not a fraud,
    In your dream, all the rest are not frauds,
    In your dream, Obama is not a fraud,
    In your dream, Reagan was not a fraud,
    In your dream, all the rest were not frauds,

    In your dream, the constitution was not a scam,
    In your dream, the Supreme court is not a scam,
    In your dream, 9/11 was not a scam”
    In your dreams, the war on terror is not a scam,
    In your dream, al -qaeda was not a scam,
    In your dream I.S.I.S. is not a scam”

    Lyrics excerpted from “Dreams [Anarchist Blues]”:
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  39. So how did Emma’s Income Tax become Constitutional Law? Her candidates lost.

  40. Doesn’t matter the LP is still a waste of time and energy and Johnson is a horrible candidate AND a horrible libertarian.

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  42. If the Libertarian Party would present a Rand Paul/Gary Johnson ticket to oppose major party tickets headed up by Hillary and The Donald, you will get at least 25% or more of the the total vote.- but the Electoral College will kill the effort.

  43. Alright!!! I don’t have to waste my vote on the Faith, Family, and Papa’s Bait and Tackle Party! I can waste my vote on the LP instead! And after that, I can eat at Applebees! Hallelujah.

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  44. New cnbc poll has Hillary Clinton at 55 per cent disapproval, that’ an opening perhaps, http://tinyurl.com/jg7pk6w

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  47. Feel the Johnson!

  48. Johnson shouldnt run. He doesnt have the charisma to get a majority, and hes not particularly good at explaining why libertarianism works to the two dominant factions. Ron Paul had the same problem. Better to keep searching for someone new who can actually get some traction.

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  50. I’d hate to see the new constitution that came out of a constitutional convention these days. It would read something like the UN charter.

    1. An Article 5 convention could only propose amendments which would then have to be ratified by the states.

  51. RE: ? Gary Johnson May Be Running a General Election Race Already
    Libertarian Party candidates offer perspectives on government and freedom you’ll never get from the two major parties.

    Interesting.
    How long do you the two socialist parties would tolerate the Libertarian Party if Gary Johnson and Company started to make real headway on the presidential race?
    One or two days?
    Anyone want to take a guess?

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