Trump Losing Millennials, Fox Adds Another Debate, Facebook and Google Improve Encryption: P.M. Links

• 

  Credit: Alex Hanson

  The latest polls show that when asked to choose between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, millennials will overwhelmingly choose Clinton. Two-thirds of Bernie Sanders' supporters say they'll support Clinton if she beats Sanders in the primaries.

• Sarah Palin has canceled a planned appearance for Donald Trump because her husband, Todd, was seriously injured in a snowmobile accident. (UPDATE: She showed up after all.)
• Fox News has added another Republican primary debate in a week, in Salt Lake City.
• A white South Carolina state trooper has pleaded guilty to shooting an unarmed black driver seconds after a stop after the driver reached for his driver's license (which the trooper asked him for). The driver survived.
• The White House has appointed transgender woman Raffi Freedman-Gurspan as its liaison on LGBT issues, the first transgender person to be given the role.
• Facebook and Google are working to increase the encryption of its technology and services, despite government demands for easier access.
• Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered his troops to begin pulling out of Syria.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The latest polls show that when asked to choose between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, millennials will overwhelmingly choose Clinton.

That's where the safe space is.

[Citizen X]

Please don't talk about Hillary's "space."

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

+1 snuke in her snizz

[Citizen X]

[vomits, dies]

[Hyperion]

+1 best fake death ever

[Crusty Juggler]

How appropriate, because vomit and death are what her ladyparts smell like.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

In other words, Crusty would.

[Citizen X]

He seems to have certain knowledge. It's possible he already HAS.

[Rufus The Monocled Derp Slayer]

Hello.

[Los Doyers]

Boa tarde babaca

[A Bloat of Rhywuns]

Young people overwhelmingly tilt left. Film at 11.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

It takes a few decades of being slapped around by life for the bitterness to start setting in.

[CE]

The libertarian moment may have to wait another generation or two.

[Mr. Flanders]

Yep, I would too if I didn't have Johnson as an option. #FeelTheJohnson #ReadyForJohnson

lol.

[Anomalous]

Trying to pump up the Johnson?

[MSimon]

Howard or Lyndon?

[evaortiz]

After I been earnin $8768 this-past/five weeks and-a little over, $10k lass-month. it's realy my favourite work I have ever had. I actually started 7-months ago and pretty much straight away was earning at least $87... p/h. I follow
this website,
=============== http://www.PathCash30.com

[Fist of Etiquette]

Fox News has added another Republican primary debate in a week, in Salt Lake City.

Yeah, that's the one where Trump will slip up.

[CE]

Did we really need another debate to realize all these guys want to start WWIII and don't care about balancing the budget or our privacy?

[JaimeRoberto]

Do we really need 28 debates when children are starving?

[Citizen X]

Sarah Palin has canceled a planned appearance for Donald Trump because her husband, Todd, was seriously injured in a snowmobile accident.

Hasn't she used that as an excuse to get out of something else before?

[HeteroPatriarch]

I don't get the impression that Todd Palin is particularly good at...anything.

[Crusty Juggler]

He's good at tappin' dat azz.

[Citizen X]

They do have like 17 kids...

[AlmightyJB]

I would be too

[Scott S.]

She ended up showing up anyway. I updated the post.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I thought he was eaten by a bear just before she was to endorse Romney.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

He got better.

[Zeb]

Yeah, I could swear I've heard that one before.

[HeteroPatriarch]

The driver survived.

That makes it harder to control the narrative.

[Hyperion]

Did Trump ever have the millenials? Also, millenials don't vote. They just show up at Bernie rallies.

[HeteroPatriarch]

And Trump rallies, apparently.

[Citizen X]

Not true. They also post "dank Bernie memes" on Facebook.

[Hyperion]

And up vote their FB friends dank Bernie memes. WTF was that thing they say, Bernie is Bah?

[Tonio]

"Bae" which apparently means "baby" though not in the literal sense.

[Hyperion]

Oh yea, I had forgotten that, on purpose.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Bae Humbug?

[This Machine]

I thought bae was the Danish word for poop.

[Crusty Juggler]

Bernie is fleek af.

[MSimon]

Bernie is fleek af.

I don't even want to know.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A white South Carolina state trooper has pleaded guilty to shooting an unarmed black driver seconds after a stop after the driver reached for his driver's license...

I'm pretty sure this is the guy, while awaiting this trial, was arrested for shoplifting. Quite a downward spiral.

[Hyperion]

And.nothing.else.happened. Guy can look forward to a future of paid leave while shop lifting.

[toolkien]

You know, going back to that Zimmerman/Martin thing, where I never really could support Zimmerman as he seemed to be a skittery Barney Fife like character. That even IF Martin was up to do no good, Zimmerman should have just waited for police to arrive, I think - now - that both Zimmerman and Martin would be dead at the hands of about five Barney Fifes with real badges. I think back to how naive I was that there was much difference between Zimmerman and the average "real" cop.

[Zeb]

I'd bet on their both being alive. Police are not held accountable for their violence nearly enough. But they do deal with thousands of tense situations every day that don't end with anyone getting shot. Even situations where someone has a gun.

I still say it's good to avoid police contact whenever possible, because you never know when you will encounter a cop who is ready to shoot you or otherwise ruin your life. But let's keep some sense of proportion.

[MSimon]

Zimmerman was getting his head bashed into the sidewalk.

Self defense is legit. Even if you are scum of the earth.

[John]

The Zimmerman Martin thing was a collision of two idiots. Zimmerman was Barney fife who thought he could confront strangers and Martin was a stupid punk who thought he could beat up anyone he felt dissed him. Zimmerman confronted someone who didn't want to be confronted and got the shit beat out of him. Martin beat the shit out of someone who had a gun. Martin ended up on the worse end of it but both were morons who should have known better.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

A driver's license has sharp edges and can be thrown like card straight at the jugular. Justified.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

He looked like a ninja!

[Juvenile Bluster]

Florida AG Pam Bondi, who is only kept from being the most corrupt woman in politics by the existence of Hillary Clinton, has endorsed Donald Trump.

In 2013, Bondi announced an investigation into Trump University. 3 days later, Trump donated $25,000 to her re-election campaign. Shortly thereafter, she announced that the investigation had been dropped. I'm sure it was all a coincidence though.

[Hyperion]

I'm sure it was, I'm sure it was...

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

Wait, seriously? She didn't even have the brains to let it fade out of the news cycle for a few months? Bold.

[Juvenile Bluster]

It was inside of a few weeks after the donation where she decided to drop the investigation. Did a bit of googling and found an article about it. http://articles.orlandosentine.....aign-event

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

This is how the system is set up, Juvey. It's not his fault! Grow a brian!

[Pan Zagloba]

I'm Brian, and so is my wife!

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Whoah, if you take Brian as anagram for brain, that movie takes on another level of meaning.

[Pan Zagloba]

I can believe Pythons making an extended Descartes in-joke into a movie.

[Brett L]

One party rule is never good. But the Democrats in Florida could fuck up the peocession at a one car funeral. Its sad. The only D worth a shit is the astronaut Senator. And its a really low bar he's clearing. Wait, is Nelson still in the Senate or did he retire. Who's the Senatoe for Floeida not running for President?

[Juvenile Bluster]

Nelson's still our Senior Senator.

Team Blue qualifies as the Stupid Party in Florida. They're incredibly adept at losing elections that should be easy for them to win.

[Brett L]

I mean, running Charlie Crist was a low point. Even for them. Let's run a guy who already is seen as having no conscience and will say literally anything to get elected. Who happens to be the former Republican governor. Suuure. People like Charlie.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Nelson is your senator? Ha-ha!

[CE]

Only 25K? Did she use it to sign up for the Trump U. Silver mentoring package?

[Fist of Etiquette]

The White House has appointed transgender woman Raffi Freedman-Gurspan as its liaison on LGBT issues, the first transgender person to be given the role.

Way to be pigeonholed.

[Citizen X]

Are we not doing phrasing anymore?

[Ted S.]

What is way to be pigeonholed?

[Crusty Juggler]

A good way to be pigeonholed involves Vick's Vaporub, a half-empty bottle of Irish whiskey, a tarp, and a friend who can keep a secret.

[IndyEleven]

Ah Crusty. You're the main reason I keep coming to this trumphole of a site. Never change.

[Crusty Juggler]

Pics?

[Chipper Morning Wood]

You forgot a box of tissues for the tears.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

"pigeonholed"

She's trans, FoE, not otherkin.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

The White House has appointed transgender woman Raffi Freedman-Gurspan as its liaison on LGBT issues, the first transgender person to be given the role.

So even more divisiveness from Obama!

[DJF]

So a phony women gets a phony job and this is history

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

THIS IS THE FUTURE!

*Kicks DJF into giant cis-pit*

[The Last American Hero]

Nothing left to cut.

[PBR Streetgang]

heh

[cgr2727]

Raffi, like from The League? Now that's an appointment I would like to see.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered his troops to begin pulling out of Syria.

Not as fun as Afghanistan.

[DJF]

He has won, peace in our time, or at least cease fire in our time

[Brett L]

Smart man.
"What is our plan for victory?"

"Declare victory. Then go home."

"Da. This is good."

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

A white South Carolina state trooper has pleaded guilty to shooting an unarmed black driver seconds after a stop after the driver reached for his driver's license (which the trooper asked him for). The driver survived.

Sentenced to three months paid leave and a commendation from the police chief.

[Juvenile Bluster]

Remember that episode of The Simpsons where Homer goes to space? Where he believes he'll be named Employee of the Month because the union contract guarantees the award to everyone, "regardless of gross incompetence, obesity, or rank odor?"

I'm convinced there's a clause like that in police union contracts. The bonus is that whenever a cop murders an innocent person, they can say "Look at all these commendations he won!"

[cgr2727]

The driver survived

Need more training. Procedures were not being followed.

[Crusty Juggler]

Fox News has added another Republican primary debate in a week, in Salt Lake City.

The surprise moderator? Michelle Fields.

[AlmightyJB]

Michelle Fields and Megyn Kelly. Oh yeah.

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

You had that dream too, huh?

[Rich]

"And a SPECIAL surprise moderator -- Mitt Romney!"

[Domestic Dissident]

millennials will overwhelmingly choose Clinton.

Does this mean Reason will give it a rest with the endless hysterical over the top pants shitting?

OK, you can stop laughing now.

[Hyperion]

What if Trump takes Caitlyn Jenner for VP?

[DJF]

It's all over man, it's all over!!!!!!!

[Hyperion]

The progs mental anguish would be delicious.

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

Everyone at this website would have a good laugh, and the ringing in our ears caused by the collective shrieking of every SJW in the world would eventually go away.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Takes Caitlyn... how?

[greasonable]

I think you created that problem.. you figure it out.

[jesse.in.mb]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered his troops to begin pulling out of Syria.

He should just make sure Syria is on the pill.

[Just say Nikki]

No need, Jesse. The failed state has ways to try to shut that whole thing down anyway.

[jesse.in.mb]

*dabs water off keyboard and screen*

Well done, Nikki.

[Tonio]

I would give you a golf clap for that, Nikki, but apparently that is triggering for some of our more excitable commenters.

[Crusty Juggler]

I gave a *sarcastic clap,* inspired by the wonderful SNL sketch The Sarcastic Clapping Family of Southhampton.

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

The White House has appointed transgender woman Raffi Freedman-Gurspan as its liaison on LGBT issues, the first transgender person to be given the role.

What the fuck does this even mean? Why does the White House need a liaison on LGBT issues? Why is Obama excluding Q, I, the other Q, A, P, and the other A?

[DJF]

And what about men trapped in men's bodies, and women trapped in women's bodies, don't they get a letter.

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

What about men who identify as lesbians?

[Crusty Juggler]

Facebook and Google are working to increase the encryption of its technology and services, despite government demands for easier access

In Zuckerberg's future we will all be wearing grey t-shirts while having the illusion of privacy.

[John]

They are just hedging their bets in case dissent becomes the highest form of patriotism after the election.

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

Yeah, one benefit if a Republican gets elected will be that Democrats and the media will pretend to care about civil liberties again and criticizing horrible decisions by the president will no longer be racist.

[PBR Streetgang]

They may even rediscover the separation of powers, as well as checks and balances.

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

"Sarah Palin has canceled a planned appearance for Donald Trump because her husband, Todd, was seriously injured in a snowmobile accident. (UPDATE: She showed up after all.)"

Yeah, fuck Todd! Nothing's keeping Sarah Palin from the sweet, orgiastic confines of a Donald Trump rally.

[Citizen X]

I mean, if he's unconscious, it's not like he'll notice if she's at his bedside or not.

[Brett L]

"They say he has brain damage, but who can tell?"

[GILMORE?]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered his troops to begin pulling out of Syria.

"My Work is Done Here!" (Putin flies off into sunset)

this probably means that there's also been some concessions from the US on "What comes next" - iow, that they've capitulated on keeping Assad/ or at least the regime in place.

It still seems like there's some unfinished issues re: ISIS that are still pretty large. I doubt the Syrians and the opposition are going to quickly unify and fight against them. Still open questions there.

[Rich]

The White House has appointed transgender woman Raffi Freedman-Gurspan as its liaison on LGBT issues, the first transgender person to be given the role.

Next, um, up: "the first reversed transgender person ....".

[Citizen X]

"I've made a huge mistake."

[Jimbo]

Come on, Citizen, your "mistake" isn't THAT big.

[GILMORE?]

I have just learned 2 interesting things =

Gawker believes there are in fact 'limits to newsworthiness'... and that Hulk Hogan's best friend was known as Bubba the Love Sponge

[Brett L]

Apparently, Bubba's wife had lots of good friends and Bubba liked to watch.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

She's got huge...tracts of land.

[Brochettaward]

Bubba the Love Sponge is an obese radio personality who has been fired from every job he's ever had. And my second chance for a Stern reference in this comment section.

[jesse.in.mb]

"Who pissed in your cornflakes?" takes on a more literal meaning:

Video appears to show man urinating on products at Kellogg's assembly line

For those of you who don't want to read the boring text about some schmo peeing on your favorite breakfast cereals here's a link straight to the video. Don't worry, his wang is (mostly) black-barred out.

Then there's this throwaway quote at the end of the article:

The station said the video may have been shot during a labor dispute between Kellogg's and employees who were locked out.

[Citizen X]

Either that, or Kellogg's is trying to increase their share of the German market.

[Brochettaward]

Pissing on their products is the best way to show the bosses that you deserve a raise and a good pension.

[jesse.in.mb]

*pisses on boss's desk*

I'll let y'all know how this goes...

[Rufus The Monocled Derp Slayer]

How come there was no recall?

[jesse.in.mb]

Apparently the video is from 2014 and any cereal products made then should be out of circulation (eaten or expired). Just think back to that rice krispie treat you had two years ago and experience revulsion.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Special sauce.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Another argument for automation.

[toolkien]

He only did #1? I seem to recall getting a bag of Cocoa Crispies in a Rice Crispies box a few years ago.

Must just be a coincidence...

[Brochettaward]

Trump may be an awful president, but how would people feel about him as Vice President? Like, Cruz/Trump ticket. Trump is just allowed to go around giving inane speeches. Like Biden on steroids. It would be the best of both worlds to me.

[John]

They would hate that too. The problem is not Trump. Trump has nothing to do with any of this. The problem is his supporters thinking they have any say in the government or any right to do anything except be quiet and hopefully die. Making Trump VP would just encourage them to think otherwise.

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

I like that you claim everyone else is hysterical about Trump despite the fact that you seem to have been driven completely insane by this election. You're so deranged at this point that you can't imagine people dislike Trump and seriously think any criticism of Saint Donald the Hair Whisperer is the result of social signalling.

[John]

So says the guy who thinks Kevin williamson is a deep thinker and thoughts like this totally okay

So the gypsum business in Garbutt ain't what it used to be. There is more to life in the 21st century than wallboard and cheap sentimentality about how the Man closed the factories down.

The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible.

But your derangement on this issue has nothing to do with social signaling and craven class snobbery. Nope. I am the one who has lost my mind. Not you.

Whatevery you tell yourself Irish.

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

As I noted earlier, you and the rest of the Trumpkins never cared much about that sort of rhetoric when it was Republicans saying stuff like that to black people, but suddenly it's horribly offensive when it's said to white people.

Hint: Maybe you shouldn't be whining about Williamson's offensive rhetoric when defending a candidate with tons of white supremacist supporters who once said Mexico is 'sending us their rapists.'

And pointing to one article is irrelevant when it comes to how good a thinker someone is. I've been reading Williamson for years, and he has a tremendous grasp of economics compared to most other people within the media. His book is very good. I think Williamson was a bit too snide and meanspirited in that article, but his point actually isn't a bad one, which is that economies change over time and if you don't adapt you will fail.

At a certain point, the refusal of some parts of the white working class to even think about adapting to the modern economy is their fault. You can't assume you'll be able to work in the same factory town as your great grandpa working the same job from now until judgment day, which seems to be what a lot of Trump supporters want. That way lies stagnation, decay, and failure.

[John]

As I noted earlier, you and the rest of the Trumpkins never cared much about that sort of rhetoric when it was Republicans saying stuff like that to black people,

I never endorsed saying such about black people. And I am pretty sure you didn't either and nor should you of. Why can't you be consistent now? Why do you think saying such cravenly stupid and collectivist things is good and think Williamson a good writer for doing so? Even if what you were saying is true, at best you are just as big of a hypocrite. You are just doing it the other way.

[John]

And pointing to one article is irrelevant when it comes to how good a thinker someone is. I

Since when? Your quality of a writer and thinker is a product of your entire body of work. You can discredit yourself pretty easily. Sometimes things reveal your character.

At a certain point, the refusal of some parts of the white working class to even think about adapting to the modern economy is their fault.

At some point sure, but not at every point. The problem with Williamson is that he is a loser who has never done anything in his life except talk out of his ass for money. His entire self worth depends on his ideas not just being a good answer but being the only answer. He can't accept that there might be legitimate objections to things like free trade. So he pretends the people who voice such objections to a man have no legitimate objection and are just immoral drug users.

You claim to be a libertarian don't you? Shouldn't you as a libertarian find Williamson's gross generalizations about drug use and condemnation of it appalling? Williamson is saying that anyone who has bad economic prospects must have them because they use drugs and are by implication a bum. That is the worst sort of drug warrior bullshit. And you should not be buying into it. Williamson is a piece of shit. He just is.

[Just say Nikki]

He can't accept that there might be legitimate objections to things like free trade.

There aren't.

What is a legitimate reason for preventing two people from trading?

[John]

Why do you feel entitled to welfare from foreign taxpayers Nikki? Do you think it is moral to buy cheap shit that is partially paid for by poor people in China and India? When did you decide being a welfare queen was consistent with being a libertarian? If it is not, why are buying subsidized goods and demanding the government ensure they stay that way?

[Just say Nikki]

Answer my question instead of changing the subject.

[John]

I just gave a legitimate objection. We don't have free trade now Nikki. We have a flood of cheap shit that is subsidized by foreign governments. I don't think objecting to that is wrong. And I ask you why you think the taxpayers of China owe you cheap shit?

[Just say Nikki]

And I ask you why you think the taxpayers of China owe you cheap shit?

They don't, and I fully support all of their efforts to destroy the state that's oppressing them.

[John]

No you don't Nikki. If you supported them, you wouldn't take welfare in the form of cheap paid for partially at their expense. You can't claim to object to something you happily benefit from and claim its your moral right to do so.

[Heroic Mulatto]

He can't accept that there might be legitimate objections to things like free trade.

Free trade is the unrestricted purchase and sale of goods and services between countries without the imposition of constraints such as tariffs, duties and quotas.

Why do you feel entitled to welfare from foreign taxpayers Nikki? Do you think it is moral to buy cheap shit that is partially paid for by poor people in China and India?

The term open market is used generally to refer to a situation close to free trade ... In an open market so defined, all economic actors have an equal opportunity of entry in that market. This contrasts with a market closed by a monopoly or oligopoly which dominate an industry, and with a protected market in which entry is conditional on certain financial and legal requirements or which is subject to tariff barriers, taxes, levies or state subsidies which effectively prevent some economic actors from participating in them (see protectionism).

I just gave a legitimate objection. We don't have free trade now Nikki.

[Heroic Mulatto]

A superior man, in regard to what he does not know, shows a cautious reserve. If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success. When affairs cannot be carried on to success, proprieties and music do not flourish. When proprieties and music do not flourish, punishments will not be properly awarded. When punishments are not properly awarded, the people do not know how to move hand or foot. Therefore a superior man considers it necessary that the names he uses may be spoken appropriately, and also that what he speaks may be carried out appropriately. What the superior man requires is just that in his words there may be nothing incorrect.
??Confucius, Analects, Book XIII, Chapter 3, verses 4-7

[Rod Flash]

I'm pretty sure he was saying STFU.

[John]

I am not sure what you are saying HM.

[Rod Flash]

Dammit. STFU goes here.

[jarflax]

I think he may be saying that there is a flaw in your argument:

To be proven: It is possible to have a principled objection to free trade

Technique: As all that is required to show the possibility of x is a single example of x John sets out to show such an example

Attempt: Free Trade requires that no government actively interfere with the trade in question via tariff, subsidy or other direct distortion. China subsidizes producers to allow their products to be sold more cheaply and gain an advantage. Conclusion we do not have free trade.

Flaw in argument: As the position to be proven was that it is possible to have a principled objection to free trade and you have discussed a situation that is not free trade you have not provided said proof.

[Los Doyers]

Do you think it is moral to buy cheap shit that is partially paid for by poor people in China and India?

According to whose morality? In any case, yes.

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

" Do you think it is moral to buy cheap shit that is partially paid for by poor people in China and India?"

What the fuck are you talking about? China has developed and become richer because they produced cheap shit for America. How has this situation harmed the Chinese?

[John]

What the fuck are you talking about? China has developed and become richer because they produced cheap shit for America. How has this situation harmed the Chinese?

China like Japan before it, built its industry by fucking its domestic consumers with protectionism and subsidizing exports. So Chinese goods are artificially cheap in the international market.

So when you buy Chinese or Japanese shit, you are buying that stuff cheaper than the market would otherwise make it and the Chinese and Japanese consumers are making up the difference. You are every bit as much of a welfare queen as someone working in a protected industry is. That is what I am talking about.

And if you think such a policy is a good idea and creates wealth, you might want to reconsider you love of free trade.

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

All we can control is our trade. We can't control the policies of foreign states. I oppose China engaging in any of those behaviors - unfortunately, I have no means of changing their policies.

The idea that we should attack free trade because China has shitty policies is absurd. Your argument is basically that we shouldn't allow free trade until every nation on Earth no longer has any subsidies, which would mean we'd live in a state of autarky forever because that's never going to happen.

[John]

The idea that we should attack free trade because China has shitty policies is absurd.

But you just told me how much wealth they created. How do you know they are shitty? And it is easy to say that it is absurd when you are the one getting the welfare. Of course you think it is absurd. You love sucking on the welfare tit. Other people lose their jobs because of you doing that. Those people don't find it absurd at all.

Why is their desire to keep their jobs immoral and your desire to live on welfare from foreign consumers noble?

[John]

You and Nikki want your subsidized shit. The whole issue is nothing but a struggle between two interest groups. The problem arises when one interest group tells itself it is morally entitled to its interests.

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

"You and Nikki want your subsidized shit"

If I wanted subsidized shit, why would I oppose subsidies instead of supporting them?

[John]

You insist on the US importing as much subsidized shit as you can buy. You object to subsidized shit when the US taxpayers do it. But you insist on the US importing as much subsidized shit as it can when it is paid for by other taxpayers.

The whole debate comes down to a conflict between people who want access to their subsidized shit and the people who lose their jobs because of that access. Neither side is more or less moral than the other. It is just a question of whose interests win out. When people like you and Williamson and Nikki talk about how immoral people who object to the current situation are, you are just rationalizing your own desire for cheap shit. That is all that is happening.

It is fine for you to pursue your interests. But you should stop pretending you have some kind of moral authority over people who oppose it.

[Just say Nikki]

You spout this bullshit as if either us is on record in support of the Chinese government, like, ever, in any way.

[John]

You absolutely do Nikki. You buy their shit don't you? And you insist that anyone who says you shouldn't is immoral. Sorry sweetie but you don't get to claim to object to something you voluntarily choose to benefit from.

[Just say Nikki]

The idea that we should attack free trade because China has shitty policies is absurd.

This is IMO and under-noticed aspect of Trumpism. Why does he want to waterboard?and worse? Because look at what the other side is doing! If someone somewhere is doing something wrong, then dammit as Americans it's our duty to do it wronger!

[John]

Nikki you are just rationiizing your own greed.

[Heedless]

I'm confused.

You say China is fucking their domestic consumers by subsidizing exports and raising trade barriers, and you want us to fix this by... subsidizing exports and raising trade barriers.

Wouldn't that fuck our domestic consumers?

[jarflax]

Yes. John has gotten slightly turned around here and is actually arguing FOR free trade. This makes the debate a bit hard to follow as everyone involved is saying that government distortions of trade are bad, but one side are saying that unfree trade is bad because free trade is good and the other is saying that because unfree trade is bad, free trade isn't free.

[Cytotoxic]

ITT, John is a disingenous retard who doesn't understand what he's attacking.

[Cytotoxic]

There is literally nothing wrong with any part of that quote.

[Pan Zagloba]

If VP is supposed to be anti-assassination measure to protect the president, I can't think of anyone better than Trump.

I still say, send him as Envoy at Large (at Yuuuge?) to Moscow. He'd fit right in with Putin and his cronies.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Meh, Al Gore, Dan Quayle, Lyndon Johnson...

[Juvenile Bluster]

Trump as Vice President would be ... okay? Maybe? In that respect.

Although I might become a religious person and start praying for the President's safety and good health.

[CE]

No one trusts Trump supporters enough to make him the VP.

[AlmightyJB]

If Trump makes Sara Palin VP, I might have to vote for him. It would be really tough to pass up all that pants shitting and yummy tears.

[Hyperion]

Caitlyn Jenner or he's a pussy.

[John]

As fun as Palin would be, Jenner would be more fun.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

If it were Caitlyn Jenner, the collective loss of sanity would be like a beautiful disaster.

[AlmightyJB]

I might have to start a rumour on facebook to see the reactions. Lol

[John]

All the VP ever does is go to funerals. Jenner seems to dress up pretty well. Dresses up better than Biden.

[OneOut]

Bullshit John.

Our current vice President is busy curing cancer.

[AlmightyJB]

That would be pure gold. Especially if they make dick jokes at the convention.

[Brochettaward]

If I were Trump, I'd go out and find some random black female. One who will laugh at his off colored jokes about the other races. He's learned a lot from Howard Stern, if you ask me, but that would be the most important takeaway.

[Ken Shultz]

My bet is that he's going with Christie.

Speaking of bets, has anyone seen Shrike recently?

[Tonio]

I had thought that, too, but Christie is going to be AG in a Trump admin.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

(shivers uncontrollably)

[Tonio]

Yeah, I know.

[AlmightyJB]

Bloomburg will be in charge of the FDA

[Jerryskids]

I'm pretty sure Trump is going to be his own AG. His own everything else, too - why would you have less than the best at everything?

[CE]

So will Carson be the Education Secretary (right before Trump eliminates the Dept of Education), or the Surgeon General?

[Tonio]

Surgeon General.

[Tak Kak]

I've got a heavily hedged bet on Jim Webb.

[AlmightyJB]

I think you're going to lose. Nothing good ever happens in Washington.

[Tak Kak]

"I think you're going to lose. Nothing good ever happens in Washington."

No doubt about it. I just like the idea too much.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

Oprah. Clint Eastwood. Bruce Willis. Pick one.

I mean, why stop now?

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Are we playing marry, fuck, kill?

Being gay-married to Clint Eastwood would be the best gay marriage ever!

[CE]

Mel Gibson is more likely.

[Ken Shultz]

"The White House has appointed transgender woman Raffi Freedman-Gurspan as its liaison on LGBT issues, the first transgender person to be given the role."

Wow.

And here I was thinking Neil Armstrong's first was impressive.

[GILMORE?]

American ISIS member surrenders in Iraq

Seems to have not enjoyed his career opportunities there

"An American fighting for Islamic State was taken into custody in northern Iraq after he left territory controlled by the militant group, according to two Kurdish officers, one of whom arrested him.

Both said it appeared the man was intending to escape both Islamic State and Kurdish forces but handed himself in after peshmerga fighters opened fire on him near the frontline in the village of Golat.

Captain Daham Khalaf said they had spotted the fighter hiding in long grass around dawn and waited until the sun rose before surrounding him: "He shouted 'I am a foreigner'," Khalaf said, describing him as bearded and dressed in black.""

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

ISIS has their own Bowe Bergdahl?

[DEG]

A white South Carolina state trooper has pleaded guilty to shooting an unarmed black driver seconds after a stop after the driver reached for his driver's license (which the trooper asked him for). The driver survived.

The trooper actually plead guilty? Is this backwards day?

[Juvenile Bluster]

We know that in the current environment, a poor police officer cannot get a fair trial for shooting a dangerous criminal.

[Citizen X]

Look at what he pled to: "shooting an unarmed black driver." In South Carolina, that's barely even an infraction.

[GILMORE?]

Palin Channels 2pac

No time for "punk ass thuggery stuff"

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Tell me Palin wore that awesome top again.

[AlmightyJB]

Pic?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Link to Wapo pic

And the WaPo article was about that awesome top. Because hard news.

[AlmightyJB]

Did Trig make that?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Oh, and it's in the accompanied Reason piece... but mine's bigger.

[Crusty Juggler]

but mine's bigger.

SIZE DOESN'T MATTER

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Sez you.

[MSimon]

Long fingers really help. You can work the clit and the G spot at the same time. Causes delicious pussy convulsions.

[Buddy Bizarre]

The 'G' spot is a myth!!

[OneOut]

Size does matter.

Nobody likes a big ole stretched out nookie.

Babies are the worst. Worster than Nicole.

[John]

The Washington political establishment has hit the panic button. Not because they are afraid of any one individual or candidate, but because they are afraid of losing their own political power.

This town is filled with well-intentioned people who believe they are doing the right thing, but far too many have lost their way after years in Washington. Politicians pay more attention to special interests groups and powerful lobbyists writing checks to their next campaign, than listening to the people back home who sent them here in the first place.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/03.....g-control/

I honestly feel sorry for you people who have allowed your panic over Trump to deprive you of enjoying this.

[Je suis Woodchipper]

No matter who our Republican presidential nominee is at the end of this process, one thing is clear, we cannot allow Democrats to double down on the failed policies of the last seven years.

it was interesting until he closed with TEAM? and then everything he previously wrote was exposed as opportunistic bullshit.

[John]

I don't care about the writer. I am just enjoying the tears of these people.

[Je suis Woodchipper]

it was fun for a while but has gotten stale. for me, anyway.

[John]

It probably will for me too, eventually. You can't reason with them. All you can do is laugh.

[MSimon]

Trump!

The thing I like most about Trump is his insincerity.

For the LULZ

[sarcasmic]

I honestly feel sorry for you people who have allowed your panic over Trump to deprive you of enjoying this.

Panic? Um, yeah. Sure. Whatever you say.

[John]

Well, I don't feel sorry for you, though I should.

[sarcasmic]

I've got an idea. Why don't you take a page from the progressive playbook and make accusations without proof, then demand that anyone who disagrees with your bullshit provide proof that you are wrong. Switching the burden of proof, you know? Only of Tony's favorite fallacies.

Oh, wait. You already did. Never mind.

[sarcasmic]

*One*

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

John thinks criticizing Trump is panic and criticizing the ideas of Trump's supporters is bigotry and social signalling.

It's especially funny because John never had a problem calling progressives morons, but you'd best not use similar rhetoric against Trump supporters or that's just mean! The hypocrisy on display here is unbelievable.

[sarcasmic]

There's nothing unbelievable about it. John is all about TEAM RED. This is what it looks like when he dusts off his pom-poms and gets out the megaphone.

[0x90]

Has he owned that NY Post article, or not?

[John]

Who says I don't social signal? Yeah Irish, you got me. i am not a Progressive and am happy to social signal about that.

You and sarcasmic are not white trash and will do anything to social signal that you are not. Why do you deny that?

[Knarf Yenrab!]

I honestly feel sorry for you people who have allowed your panic over Trump to deprive you of enjoying this.

This has been the first presidential election where I have felt comfortable giving up hope a year before inauguration and just watching the zero-sum shitstorm of hatred and whinging that is democratic finger-wagging, arm-grabbing and steak hawking.

Turns out that abandoning hope and expectation is the path to inner peace. I am strongly considering starting my own religion or, if my schedule does not permit, heavily modifying an established one.

[sarcasmic]

Turns out that abandoning hope and expectation is the path to inner peace.

Yep. No point in getting worked up over things you can't control.

[John]

Why don't you take your own advice sarcasmic?

[sarcasmic]

Why don't you stop making accusations and switching the burden of proof?

Oh yeah. You're a TEAM RED cheerleader.

"Trump, Trump, pump, hump!

He turns me on! He turns me on!

I want to suck him! Bump him! Hump him!

Gooooooo Trump!"

[John]

What have I accused you of? What are you even talking about? And again, why don't you take your own advice and calm down.

[sarcasmic]

"Trump, Trump, he's got hair!

His finger touched me from nowhere!

Boy oh boy he's got a pair!

I gotta shave my balls with Nair!"

[sarcasmic]

"Trump, Trump, he's John's man!

Causing panic 'cross the land!

Touched John once with his hand!

Made John come like no one can!"

[sarcasmic]

"Trump, Trump, he's for real!

Shocks like an electric eel!

Can't believe he makes John feel!

Like drinking milk with every meal!"

[sarcasmic]

"Trump, Trump, he makes John swoon!

Touched him with his silver spoon!

Makes John sing just like a loon!

Sends John's heart right to the moon!"

[John]

Again sarcasmic, what have I accused you of?

[sarcasmic]

Again sarcasmic, what have I accused you of?

Try reading your own posts, troll.

[John]

so, I accused you of all these things but you can't link to my doing it or even give me an example. But I am the troll.

Again, take your own advice sarcasmic.

[sarcasmic]

"John, John, he's our troll!

Gotta love the way he rolls!

Sucking on The Donald's pole!

With three fingers up his hole!"

Take my own advice? What advice would that be? To stop having a grand time making fun of a TEAM RED cheerleader? I don't believe I ever made that suggestion. Whatever. Might as well spend some time with the kid. Good time for a game of checkers or snakes and ladders.

[John]

So I didn't accuse you of anything. You are just making it up. And I thought I was a crazy Trump supporter. How am i a team read cheerleader? Last I looked team red was shitting its pants over Trump.

Could make up a meme and stick to it?

[sarcasmic]

I'm not going to explain myself to you. It would be a waste of time. It's more fun to make fun of you.

[John]

Considering that you can't explain yourself, that is probably a good idea sarcasmic. A good man knows his limitations.

[sarcasmic]

Considering that you can't explain yourself

Hooray! More baseless accusations! True to form! Don't ever change!

[John]

Read your posts sarcasmic, there is nothing baseless about that accusation. You are the one who can't explain or give any examples of all of these horrible things you say I have done. Not me.

[sarcasmic]

Hooray! I never used the word "horrible!" Keep it up! Woo hoo!

[sarcasmic]

Kid's bath is done. Playtime. Gotta go.

[MSimon]

Turns out that abandoning hope and expectation is the path to inner peace.

Likewise.

[CE]

Never abandon hope, but never get comfortable with expectation.

[sarcasmic]

Hope in one hand and shit in the other. See which one fills up first.

[GILMORE?]

Solution to Government Corruption? = More Government, More Money

[Brochettaward]

More government is the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

For all the talk about how the little guy or individual can't stand up to private corporations without government, there is very little concern for how the same individuals routinely get shafted by our legal system. I'm stating the obvious, but the story earlier today on the dubious warrants in Washington was a perfect story to bang that point home.

[sarcasmic]

Look. The corporations are enslaving us by providing goods and services to voluntary customers while giving jobs to voluntary employees. That is like slavery and stuff, you know?

The solution is to give more power to the government so the government can control the corporations. The problem with this is that the corporations control the government. But if we give more power to the government, then it can control the corporations that control it. And if that doesn't work, and the result is the more-powerful government being controlled by the corporations, it was only because government wasn't given enough power. The solution is to give more power to the government. And if that doesn't work, and the result is the more-powerful government being controlled by the corporations, it was only because government wasn't given enough power. The solution is to give more power to the government. And if that doesn't work, and the result is the more-powerful government being controlled by the corporations, it was only because government wasn't given enough power. The solution is to give more power to the government. And if that doesn't work, and the result is the more-powerful government being controlled by the corporations, it was only because government wasn't given enough power. The solution is to give more power to the government.

[CE]

Especially other people's money.

Progressives are the greediest people of all, because they don't even want to earn it.

[sarcasmic]

They're not greedy. Greedy is when you want to keep what belongs to you. Wanting to steal what doesn't belong to you in the name of social justice and equality is the height of altruism.

[GILMORE?]

Do you still call someone a "refugee" after they've been in the US for most of their lives?

this is all separate from the "Cop shoots person for no reason"-part

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Without reading the linked piece, might it be because you could still be under 'refugee status' while living here for years after arriving?

[GILMORE?]

yeah, i guess. they're 16, so still a minor, which i guess makes it relevant.

I was just like, man, if you escape Somalia... wouldn't you be like, "uhm, We'll take someplace green, with animals, and not so much starvation, thanks!"....or at least some @()#*&$@# black people? But *Utah*? I'm just confused as to WTF that's all about.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Low crime and it's full of Mormons. Say what you will about religion, but the Mormons don't spend a lot of time killing people unlike themselves, despite what they may say while sitting in front of the television not drinking beer or coffee.

[GILMORE?]

Huh =

Thousands of refugees relocated to Utah after evacuating homelands

that was from 2012-2013

This particular kid came from Somalia in 2004. But they've taken in a few thousand from there in the last decade.

I know v/ little about the US refugee-assistance programs; i do know that they're very different than traditional immigration-visa situations. Part of the kerfuffle with the Syrians thing late last year had to do with the fact that the plan Obama was pushing through wasn't even going to meet the requirements of either, and basically give newcomers a "fast-track"

(which, to be fair - the 'regular' track is ridiculously slow. Many Iraqi refugees approved by the State Dept back in 2005 were still waiting in 2015 to be allowed in)

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Despite my teasing of the Mormon religion, I'm like Bill Maher, I don't actually know much about it.

I do know some pretty hard core, extreme Christians, and most of them are in a big fat hurry to sponsor and take in refugees from Syria, because religious extremism always means you're killing people.

[Old Man With Candy]

I'm like Bill Maher, I don't actually know much about it.

I do. It's wack, even in the context of religions. But clean, harmless wack.

[Pan Zagloba]

I don't know that you get a lot of choice - "your sponsor (church or NGO most likely) is from SLC, they got some shit lined up for you, here's a plane ticket." Now, can you move out somewhere less arid and not lose refugee status?

[cgr2727]

+1 Sal Tlay Ka Siti

[GILMORE?]

can you move out somewhere less arid and not lose refugee status?

Again i know very little about how it works in the US. Its fairly small & probably varies by state. I'd guess the sponsoring organizations have a lot to do with it, and its a bit like foreigners employed domestically - they lose the sponsor, they lose their status. So they do stick in the local area until they've met certain conditions, established permanent residences etc.

I know of a few populations of 'refugees' in the US that turned into established regional communities. a la the Vietnamese in the gulf coast region.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

There's some Hmong communities in Minnesoda.

[Homple]

Somalis also.

[Heroic Mulatto]

might it be because you could still be under 'refugee status' while living here for years after arriving?

If we're talking about America, that would be illegal as refugees are required to file for adjustment of status after 1 year.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Sorry.

[CE]

You don't... have... to live like a refugee.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The White House has appointed transgender woman Raffi Freedman-Gurspan as its liaison on LGBT issues, the first transgender person to be given the role.

*facepalm*

[John]

Does being head of the FBI for like 50 years not count? Jay Edgar Hoover is on the phone and his panties are definitely in a wad about reason dissing him.

[jesse.in.mb]

I think Hoover was (allegedly) a transvestite, not someone experiencing gender dysphoria.

Think Eddie Izzard rather than Buck Angel.

[John]

He couldn't be open about it back then. So it is hard to say.

[Pan Zagloba]

An "executive transvestite"? OK, I can see Ole Edgar described like that.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Seriously allegedly.

There was zero hard evidence he was a transvestite, but plenty of evidence he was just plain old gay.

[John]

I know. But Hoover was such a shit bag, he deserved the slander to stick.

[Pan Zagloba]

Lana: OK, fine, I can't prove anything right now.
Malory: That didn't stop J. Edna Hoover from persecuting Martin Luther King, now did it?
Lana: What does that have to do... Wait, J. Edna?
Malory: You never heard that? How Hoover was a huge cross-dressing chicken hawk?
Lana: I had not.
Malory: Well that's exactly the kind of slanderous and unsubstantiated rumor that I will not tolerate at ISIS.

[MSimon]

+13

[kilroy]

Haven't seen any H&R bracket links yet so I set one up.

H&R 2016 NCAA Brackets

Group password is: Orphans!

If there's another one going and I missed it, let me know.

[GILMORE?]

"My name is Bond..... pronouns, xe/xer/xim"

'Secret agents of change' say U.S. intelligence embracing LGBT spies

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

To be fair, you want your spies to blend in.

[Crusty Juggler]

We are in a competition with the rest of the companies out there for talent. If we cannot continue to bring in talent, we cannot bring in the best intelligence," said panelist Kris Gill, global programs manager for the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency.

NGIA?

I guess I know what they do, but really, what do they do?

[GILMORE?]

Satellites

[GILMORE?]

Proof that there is no out-trolling Trump

Trump aims for big primary wins, calls campaign 'a lovefest'

[GILMORE?]

Inside Kasich's long-shot strategy to beat Trump to the GOP nomination

This strikes me as almost as stupid as someone wasting 1000 words on "Vanderbilt's chances in the NCAA tournament"

[GILMORE?]

You WILL 'Buy American': You Will Have No Choice

[Tornado16nb]

trying to outdo sanders i see

[Pan Zagloba]

U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton will call for higher trade standards at a Saturday campaign stop in Youngstown, Ohio, to ensure that automakers that use largely foreign parts are not given preference for producing "made in America" cars.

I wonder if parts made in Canada for the Detroit Three qualify?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

*shrug*

It's Ohio, she's Clinton which means she's researched her Union-belonging-manufacturing sector audience. Made 'n'Murrica is kind of a big thing.

[GILMORE?]

The people who trust Clinton the least - or at least *should* - are the midwest union democrats.

They hated Bill Clinton. They blamed NAFTA for fucking them over specifically. She was cheerleading the TPP when she was SecState but now pretends she's a rapid AMERICA FIRSTer

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

They're gonna get it right this time.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

They're gonna get it right in their butthole this time.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

The latest polls show that when asked to choose between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, millennials will overwhelmingly choose Clinton.

They'll choose to stay home election day is what they'll choose. Sans signalling opportunities, your standard lo-fo marginal voters are going to Netflix the night away in droves.

These people turned out for BHO because he's superficial and semi-charming. HRC doesn't have that going for her, and plenty of people in their 30s and beyond despise her enough to cast a ballot for a semi-warm body like Bernie, much less a showman like Trump. Shouldn't underestimate the media's ability to control a story by dictating coverage, but they've really got their work cut out for them this year. If they can elect Hillary with her baggage and personality, they can elect literally anyone.

You can't hide Hillary away forever behind breathless stories about Trump or Cruz, and when she speaks, she's simultaneously boring and despicable, which is going to be a hard sell compared to the funny guy hawking wine and steaks when he's not shaving Vince McMahon's head.

[Pan Zagloba]

They'll choose to stay home election day is what they'll choose. Sans signalling opportunities, your standard lo-fo marginal voters are going to Netflix the night away in droves.

Dunno, with enough media hype, our idiots were motivated to vote PM Zoolander (a poster child for privileged, politically-connected 1%) because OMG HARPER IS FASCIST! Destroying our socialists in the process.

So yeah, keep hammering on "Trump is Hitler" and I expect a fair chunk of Bernie Bunch to go and vote Against Trump, even if it means checking off Herself.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

He's America's Hat's version of BHO, though. I can understand why voters who don't know Iraq from Iran might be inclined to vote for someone young and superficially attractive who talks a decent game.

If the Democrats were going with Julian Castro, I could see why they might attract the dimwit vote again. But Hillary? Who's enthusiastic about her other than Wall Street goons who appreciate her open corruption?

[toolkien]

Of course the irony is Sanders is Otto Strasser.

[Brochettaward]

I'm not a Trumpista, but if he went full wrestling heel, I'd have to vote for him. Like, I want complete over the top schtick. No subtlety. Challenge Rubio to a match at Wrestlemania. Send drunken supporters to interrupt Bernie rallies. Given interviews where you just stare at the interviewer in silence after they say something stupid. Let's go all out here.

[Juvenile Bluster]

Now I'm imagining Jim Ross calling a Hillary-Cruz debate in 2016 where Trump goes up to the stage to endorse Cruz, turns heel, DDTs him, and rips off his shirt to reveal a "Hillary 2016" shirt.

[Crusty Juggler]

"Good God that's Trump's music!"

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Something about Hillary pinning Cruz with the Camel-Toe Clutch belongs here.

[Brochettaward]

MY GAWD! MY GAWD! SOMEONE STOP THE MATCH!

[GILMORE?]

They'll choose to stay home election day is what they'll choose.

I agree. Turnout during Dem primaries has been especially low.... WITH Bernie.

When Bernie is gone, after 8 months of nothing but hillary....

I promise you, enthused they will not be.

[Cytotoxic]

They weren't enthused in 2012. Didn't matter.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Riiiiight. Certainly no motivation to signal their transcendence by re-electing their first black president.

[Cytotoxic]

No they won't. Voting against Trump will be the Next Big Accomplishment. They will turn out in hordes to do it.

[John]

You want to believe so badly. How is open borders working out for your hero Merkle? Still convinced Germany will be more free?

[american socialist]

Der... People who think that desparately poor refugees from ISIS violence shouldn't be allowed to just fucking keel over at the Greek border are the real assholes and give power to Donald Trump and German neo-Nazis. Those last two are just misunderstood.

[Migrant Log Chipper]

Fuck off, asswit, no one cares and they don't even respond....how's that mortgage doing, btw?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

They won't. The big question is what will happen with GOP voters vs. PBR Democrat crossovers.

[GILMORE?]

Proof = Uber Was in Fact Responsible For Mass Murders: Controlled Driver/Shooter's Brain Through App

[0x90]

Whoa... and that's just one app. Microsoft could use this to their advantage.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

*waves hand dismissively*

Blaming everything on Microsoft is so 1990s.

[Winston]

Was the 'Libertarian Moment' Wishful Thinking?

Yes, yes it was. It was pretty obvious that the "anti-government" sentiment was more likely to lead to support for some strongman to Get Things Done than to libertarianism.

I mean libertarians have not really refuted the notion of the general public that without Big Government we would all starve to death, have no jobs and the rivers and air will be filled with poison.

Instead Gillespie and Welch felt like repeating "Clap Your Hands If You Believe in the Libertarian Moment!" would be sufficient.

[John]

Shut up and enjoy your pot, uber, and internet porn Winston. How can you say you are not free. You have uber don't you?

[Winston]

I like to imagine Gillespie in the 1930s proclaiming that things weren't so bad because everyone is better off than a medieval peasant, and we have female suffrage, radio, talkies and sliced bread.

[MSimon]

Sliced bread was easy. You just asked your grocer to put it in the machine for you. We used to have one in my Dad's store until the mid 50s.

[Brett L]

Sliced bread was the beginning of the decadence that led us to this time.

[MSimon]

All I got from that was the clap.

[Zeb]

Well, at least it wasn't the AIDS or the tuberculosis.

[Zeb]

I agree that the "libertarian moment" stuff it, to put it mildly, a bit over-optimistic. But do you think that they actually believe that society is transforming into anything particularly libertarian, particularly on the political side?

[Winston]

But do you think that they actually believe that society is transforming into anything particularly libertarian, particularly on the political side?

They wrote a book about how wonderful it is that they are so many "independents", constant millennial polls, articles on how Trump and Sanders are harbingers of the libertarian moment, how Terry McAullife's election was Virginia's libertarian moment, etc. So yes they actually seem to believe so. Unless they are full of shit in order to sell books or part of a "clap your hands if you believe" strategy.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Welch is salvageable. Gillespie is proof that the Tuskegee experiment never ended.

[american socialist]

Libertarian moment? Probably. We have two Democratic candidates who are pro-choice, for legal gay marriage, and for normalizing laws against marijuana. The insurgent of the two has been a consistent critic of defense spending and military intervention and uses his opponent's vote authorizing the invasion of Iraq as a cudgel. On the Republican side it's bleaker, but the leading candidate has been the staunchest critic of the Iraq War of any of the candidates in both parties.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

And are pro-gun control. Pro-welfare state. Pro-econut. Anti-free trade. Anti-free speech.

Yeah, awesome donkey candidates.

[MSimon]

Only one D candidate is good on marijuana. The other one is useless on the subject.

[Migrant Log Chipper]

how's that mortgage thing going, Stalin, jr.

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[Love Status for Whatsapp]

This lends an ambiguity and curiosity to them which urges readers to read them and respond to them unlike Facebook where the long status messages are not being read by most people.

[Citizen X]

Florida is shaped like that for a reason.

[John]

Some of you people. And as far as the comment, Irish and Nikki will tell you this guy is nothing but a welfare queen who needs to shut the hell up. He is ignorant scum Tundra. Kevin Williamson told them so.

[Juice]

I grew up in the 50's and 60's, certainly not perfect times, but much happier than these.

No.

They were much shittier times than now. They seemed happier to you then because you were a kid then and it was a long time ago.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Like this?

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

No, I think that guy makes a very good point about wanting the federal government out of his life. This is in stark contrast to many Trumpistas who want the government to dole out the welfare money, they just want that welfare money to go to their chosen groups instead of people they don't like.

That guy's arguments about decentralized governance strikes me as relatively libertarian, and it's also completely different from Donald's desire for total control and authority. I can't imagine the person who wrote that comment would say positive things about Putin and Chinese Communist Party the way your boy-toy Trump has.

[Ted S.]

I think the guy likes to buy cheap goods from China, which would make some people freak out and call him a welfare queen.

[Old Man With Candy]

And as far as the comment, Irish and Nikki will tell you this guy is nothing but a welfare queen who needs to shut the hell up. He is ignorant scum Tundra. Kevin Williamson told them so.

Arguments are so much easier to win when you get to completely make up what the other guy is saying.

See, John, unlike you, most of us here have not supported mass killing of Jews.

[John]

He is an old white guy and doesn't have money. Careful Irish, you have made a lot of effort not to be associated with such people. Don't blow it now. Sugar Free and Nikki might stop talking to you.

[Irish Breaks Up W/ ESB]

"Sugar Free and Nikki might stop talking to you."

You really do make ridiculous accusations you can't back up. The idea that I'm somehow trying to get Sugarfree to like me is so absurd I don't even know how to respond to it. I've gotten in some pretty big fights with that guy, so somehow I don't think I'm trying to get on his good side.

"He is an old white guy and doesn't have money."

Yeah, that's why I criticize Trump supporters. Because they're white and poor. Do you really not see that you're behaving just like the leftists who claimed the only reason anyone could dislike Obama is because they hate blacks?

[bacon-magic]

John,
I cheered you on when everyone was picking on you, I thought they were just being petty. I take it back. You should go back and read every post you've done and think this time. You are not unintelligent, but your anger/bias sure can hinder your reality perception.

[Old Man With Candy]

He is an old white guy and doesn't have money.

That describes SugarFree AND Nikki.

[Mad Scientist]

Holy shit, John. I'm getting tired of wiping your spittle flecks off the inside of my monitor. You've become as obstinate and irritating as joe from lowell. At least you have him beat in condescension.

[Just say Nikki]

Do you really not see that you're behaving just like the leftists who claimed the only reason anyone could dislike Obama is because they hate blacks?

Like most Trumpets, John does somehow fail to realize he is an SJW.

[John]

You really do make ridiculous accusations you can't back up. The idea that I'm somehow trying to get Sugarfree to like me is so absurd I don't even know how to respond to it. I've gotten in some pretty big fights with that guy, so somehow I don't think I'm trying to get on his good side.

I assume you are signaling to someone. You are trying awfully hard whoever it is for.

[John]

Bacon,

I give as good as I get. And I am only nasty to people like Irish because they are nasty to me to start with. Should I rise above it and not waste my time with Irish? Probably. I will be the first to admit it is a vice. Not the worst vice but a vice nonetheless.

And no one here picks on me. I pick on few people but none of them pick on me. At best they amuse me.

[Old Man With Candy]

You are not unintelligent

I think you're wrong here.

[MSimon]

Trump!

Because you KNOW he is lying

[bacon-magic]

I've seen several threads where several people piling on you. Example: anything to do with Muslims or immigration. I enjoy almost all of the comments on here, even the hateful ones, but do not enjoy disingenuous arguments. I'm still trying to grasp why you've been very pro-Trump when you have to know the guy is 100% bullshit. I assumed you were a bit more small l libertarian.

[John]

I'm still trying to grasp why you've been very pro-Trump when you have to know the guy is 100% bullshit.

I don't know why people think that. My point has always been that Trump is no worse than the alternatives and the reaction to him has been completely unwarranted and driven mostly by social snobbery. I have said on multiple occasions that Trump is incidental to my larger points.

As far as immigration goes, reason doesn't talk much about that these days. What has happened in Europe has caused them to want to change the subject, though I am pretty sure Nikki and Cytoxic are still looking for the real perpetrators in Colongne.

As far as disingenuous arguments go, I am sorry if my sarcasm is not clear. I don't actually think that Irish is trying to impress SF and Nikki or that he is consciously social signaling. I am just sarcastically pointing out the double standards he is applying.

[CE]

No Internet. No cable TV. No cell phones. No thanks.

[Homple]

Juice, did you live during the 50s and 60s?

If not, the times were not exactly as described by Howard Zinn.

[CE]

Minus the 17th Amendment, I'm guessing we would have 99 of the same 100 Senators. And Rand Paul would still be an eye doctor in Kentucky.

[John]

I don't think that was a good trade. The only thing we have now that is better is we no longer have the bullshit of mixed race couples causing a panic and all that horse shit. I would never want to go back to that. As for all of the toys, they seem to be mostly tools to further rob us of our privacy and freedom these days.

[CE]

Just because we've survived Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama doesn't mean the next clown will be as unimportant....

[Migrant Log Chipper]

Exactly...I grew up in Willmar and fled to the less retarded state of montana 35 years ago. I didn't realize how most Minnesotans think government is benign. Took a drive with my 80 something old man a couple summers ago. Willmar has basically the same population as it had 40 plus years ago yet when we drove by a huge new 50 million dollar county facility I mentioned it might be a bit of overeach, he saw the point.

He was a union railroad guy, then hired by management for the last 20 years with BNSF. He taught the ropes to the number 2 guy at BN 30 years ago.

The bureaucrats are indeed the point, Tundra. More unelected crats means less say by taxpayers. Here in Missoula half the space downtown is occupied by city/county bureaucrats.

A few years ago a local teacher whined about getting no respect and whining about local educational bureaucracy. I pointed out to him that the bureaucrats are there because they are administering fedgov mandates and without the fed gov involvement that money would never have left town and may well have been paid better. His reply...crickets. Progs are morons and unfortunately they are teaching the next generation.

[John]

The country is more resilient than you think and politics are less important than you think.

[John]

Exactly that.

[Los Doyers]

All italics? Now you're just fucking with us.

[Old Man With Candy]

All italics? Now you're just fucking with us.

It's the concussions talking. Or mumbling and drooling, to be more accurate.

[Cytotoxic]

"As for all of the toys, they seem to be mostly tools to further rob us of our privacy and freedom these days."

Thanks for moron take John. If I ever want to know what a fucking idiot thinks of something at any one time on any subject, I just look at your posts.

[John]

Insults only work when they have colonel of truth. That is why mine drove you to distraction and yours just makes me laugh.

[Cytotoxic]

Hilarious coming from you.

[John]

You are a simple minded idiot. You really are. It's no wonder you like Rand, she is the only philosopher who wrote on an 8th grade level.

[John]

Did your mom ground you again? Is that why you are so butt hurt?

[John]

I don't know mad scientist. You are probably right. But the quality of thought here has dropped a lot. No one is a free thinker anymore. They just drop buzz words. Irish has no clue why he loves free trade or hates Trump. And he has a gem less understanding of the other side.

It is not so much that I disagree with people on here. I don't mind that. I actually agree more than I used to. What brings out the worst in me is the lousy reasoning and the complete lack of understanding of the issues involved. I have let that bug me way too much.

[jarflax]

kernel