Police Abuse

Donald Trump Gives Confused Donald Trump Answer on Police

Police are mistreated, but police brutality is real and Trump will do something about it even though cops are already worried about losing their jobs.

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ABC News

Donald Trump was asked at the New Hampshire GOP presidential debate about his previous comments that police were the most mistreated people in America, and how he would "bridge the divide" between police and the communities they're supposed to sell. It's cute that ABC's David Muir thought he was going to get an actual answer on that from Trump.

Trump started:

Well, there is a divide, but I have to say that the police are absolutely mistreated and misunderstood, and if there is an incident, whether it's an incident done purposely—which is a horror, and you should really take very strong action—or if it is a mistake, it's on your news casts all night, all week, all month, and it never ends.

The police in this country have done an unbelievable job of keeping law and order, and they're afraid for their jobs, they're afraid of the mistreatment they get, and I'm telling you that not only, me speaking, minorities all over the country, they respect the police of this country and we have to give them more respect.

They can't act. They can't act. They're afraid for losing their pension, their job. They don't know what to do. And I deal with them all the time. We have to give great respect, far greater than we are right now, to our really fantastic police.

A lot of these assertions are meaningless (most people "respect" the police, it doesn't mean they're not concerned about brutality), dubious (cops, who are supposed to be professionals, care what people think about them), or outright false (cops are afraid of losing their jobs). Trump wasn't asked and didn't specify what kind of "incident done purposely" he considered a horror. There are so many such stories on our news casts "all night, all week, all month". It's not as simple to differentiate the incidents done "on purpose" from the "mistakes" as Trump suggests, and the complete lack of transparency and accountability—which has fueled much of the distrust of the police—makes differentiation even harder.

The idea that cops en masse are worried about losing their pension or job is ridiculous, and intellectually dishonest even for Trump. Police have among the strongest union protections in the country. Trump has seen incidents of police brutality (or "mistskes") play out on the news casts non-stop, according to him—so he ought to now very few cops are ever removed from their jobs over such incidents, and very few such incidents are widely reported or investigated in the first place.

If more cops did lose their jobs over misconduct and making "mistakes" that professionals should not be making, Trump's concern about "mistreatment" and lack of respect would solve itself. Police unions produce rules that protect bad actors. Such bad actors set the tone for the rest of department and have an outsized effect on their department's reputation. You remember a thug a lot more clearly than someone who was doing their job like they were supposed to. A good cop may be commendable but it's what he's paid taxpayer money to do.

Muir tried to bring Trump back to the question, asking him what he might say to families who have "lived through" or seen police brutality first-hand. Trump answered by pointing out that "everybody sues" and that no one wants excessive force but, as Trump answers are wont to do, the ideas in it never fully formed. Trump answered Muir:

Well, they do [see police brutality]. And, you know, they sue. Everybody sues, right? They see excessive—I mean, they go out, they sue. We have so much litigation—I see the courts, I see what they're doing. They sue, and you know what? We don't want excessive force. But at what point—you know, either you're going to have a police force that can do its job…

I was just up in Manchester, I met with the police officers yesterday. Tremendous people. They love the area, they love the people, they love all the people. They want to do their job. And you're going to have abuse and you're going to have problems, and you've got to solve the problems and you have to weed out the problems. But the police in this country are absolutely amazing people.

This is Trump qua Trump. There's problems, and he's going to solve them, but he won't give you specifics. It's not even clear he understands or cares to think about how these problems emerged in the first place. This is what a strong man looks like and, like most of them, not a particularly well-informed one.

Ohio Gov. John Kasich jumped in after Trump's question to bring up his own fairly positive record on improving police-community relations in that state, which had seen a number of highly controversial shootings over the least half-decade. Kasich created a state panel that recommended nearly two dozen reforms, ranging from body cameras to new use of force policies. Such steps toward actually-existing reform are far more valuable than the bluster from the likes of Trump or those that have attached themselves to the issue of police brutality in a transparent attempt to cash in on an endemic problem by fitting it into the narratives they've built their parasitic careers around.

NEXT: Did You Play Daily Fantasy Sports This NFL Season? The Government Wants Its Cut.

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  1. Reeling through spaces of dazed throngs the fucking orange spinning twit blathers stacks of verbosity billowing with vacuums and collapsed ideas.

  2. He simply babbles.

    I want the man who can’t articulate a single coherent thought to be the guy with the launch codes.

    People claimed Bush was stupid…think what the left will do to Trump.

    1. On the other hand…

      “Your guilty conscience may move you to vote Democratic, but deep down you long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king!”

    2. Finally, the presidency will get the respect that it deserves.

    3. Greg Stillson: Put your hand on the scanning screen, and you’ll go down in history with me!

      Five Star General: As what? The world’s greatest mass murderers?

      Greg Stillson: You cowardly bastard! You’re not the voice of the people, I am the voice of the people! The people speak through me, not you!

    4. If each case is sui generis?it is?how specific can or should a candidate be, esp. when the president has practically nothing to do with police abuses?

      HyR is turning me into a Trump supporter. I had no reason to favor him particularly, but they’re unintentionally painting him here as better than I’d thought.

  3. OT: A reminder to those that will be watching the Super Bowl halftime that Coldplay is best experienced through the voice of a giant clown.

    1. Why would anyone be watching the Sports Bowl when there’s perfectly good soccer on the tele?

      1. The Champions League doesn’t resume for another week and a half.

        1. And Man Utd just blew three points against Smellsea. Fucking asshole piece of shit Diego Costa.

    2. That dude is way better than Chris Martin.

  4. I hate Kasich but I give him credit for at least trying to address the issue. To what avail we’ll see especially given how horrible his AG DeWine is.

    1. Today on the Facebook some friends were saying that he was the strongest candidate on the Republican side.

      1. Back when he was a freshman congressman budget cutter he was pretty decent. As Governor, he has never met a big government boondoggle that he didn’t like.

        1. AJB-

          This.

          I liked him in Congress in the early 90’s- and I despise him as a Guv…

      2. Of course politically, going with a Buckeye is usually a plus in and of itself

        1. Grant was a fine president. His cabinet, OTOH…

        2. William Henry Harrison ftw!

      3. Today on the Facebook some friends were saying that he was the strongest candidate on the Republican side.

        Influenced by the NY Times endorsement, perhaps?

  5. The Trump Style worked for OH?Bummer!

  6. OT: I was trying to load a game level on my Xbox360 and it just wouldn’t. When I took the disc out there was a mark near the edge I hadn’t seen before. It is possible that my console did this? When I was playing its drive sounded like it was going crazy. Can this be fixed? Disc doctor or something?

    1. If your 360 is standing upright, that’s very possible. The 360 was a great system, but it was ridiculously prone to fucking up discs if you so much as tapped the console while playing. Times 10 if it was standing upright. You might be able to buff the scratch out if it’s not too deep.

      Also, get with the times, canuck. PS4.

      1. It was flat but I still think it’s fucked.

        Also, get with the times, canuck. PS4.

        Is that American for ‘PC’? Guess what I’m typing this on.

        1. A Mac? They can’t get viruses, you know.

          /resumes downloading popup porn

          1. Ha ha no a real computer.

          2. Also, not using shit software and having a contacts list full of doofusses that couldn’t fight their way out of a wet Zino if the instructions was written on the CD caddy goes a long way to avoiding virus. The only other significant source I’ve seen is stupid webpages that no one should be visitting anyway because they are obviously fraudulent and safe, functional websites are readily available that actually provide whatever informations the virulent ones claim to.

    2. It’s dead. The drive is going crazy because it can’t track.

      1. FUCK. I already had this happen in 2011 and it cost an inordinate amount to fix! Goddamn this thing. Is the disc recoverable?

        1. Nope. Double layer DVDs are almost never recoverable. And trying to use a disc with a scratch like that will wear out the drive.

          1. Whatever. The Halo 4 campaign wasn’t very good thus far anyway.

            1. Ha ha. Loser.

          2. “Double layer DVDs are almost never recoverable.”

            That doesn’t seem right.

        2. This is an evil that is right up there with wrong door raids. They sell you AGame for 50 or $70, and then they expect you to take care of a fragile and easily destroyed disk with no method of backup or replacement.

          One of those idiotic attorney-general’s like the Attorney General from New York should take this issue on. If I’m buying a license to the content, I should be able to backup and restore the physical media. And if I’m buying the physical media and not the content, then I should own the material on the media and do with it as I please.

          1. Or you learn how to take care of your shit like your mommy taught you. You did have a mommy, right? Or does your kind reproduce by fission like other bacteria?

            1. Hey sarc, you might want to swap out the batteries in your sarc detector.

              1. His mommy isn’t there to do that for him today, shitheel. It’s Super Bowl.

                1. It’s Super Bowl.

                  I was wondering why the grocery store had a sale on chicken wings.

              2. Hey sarc, you might want to swap out the batteries in your sarc detector.

                Actually, I thought he brought up a pretty valid point. But because he is an asshole, I will not acknowledge it to him directly.

                1. You do realize that “Cyto” and “Cytotoxic” are completely different people/commenters, right? Right?

                  1. You do realize that “Cyto” and “Cytotoxic” are completely different people/commenters, right? Right?

                    Aw, crap. Sorry Cyto. My bad. All apologies. No sarc.

                2. It looked like you were reponding to Cyto, not Cytotoxic.

                3. Wow you’re petty.

            2. I did take care of the stupid thing and it still broke. Maybe you should have the proctologist pull out whatever crawled up your ass last night.

              1. Maybe you should have the proctologist pull out whatever crawled up your ass last night.

                Nah, I’ll just crap it out and name it after you.

                1. Look, I’m sorry your wife left you or whatever but that doesn’t mean you should take it out on me. You’re just being the asshole you falsely accuse me of being.

                  1. Dude, I’m happy. I’m not taking anything out on anyone. Fact is, you’re an asshole. I assumed it was a cultivated image. If it is not intentional, then maybe you are in need of some self-reflection.

                    1. “Fact is, you’re an asshole.”

                      Right. That’s why you’re acting like an immature spiteful prick. It must be me. Are you angry over getting debate pwnd by me or something? I don’t recall that happening recently. Just let it go.

                    2. Just let it go.

                      Says the guy who starts every “debate” with a personal attack. Sure, dude. Whatever you say.

                    3. “Says the guy who starts every “debate” with a personal attack.”

                      Also let go of that projection.

                    4. To the extent that I act like an asshole, it’s really just a reaction to bad behavior on the part of people like you. So really you should be angry at yourself. I am the mirror.

                    5. Yes, it is you. I don’t get involved in long debates with anybody here, yet *I* think you’re an asshole.

                    6. Then that’s also probably just you.

                    7. I mean really, the guy who gets called a loser for his broken Halo 4 disc is the asshole rather than the guy who does so? Yeah it’s you.

                    8. Steam is better than both of you and probably me.

                    9. I know I’m an asshole. I’m quite talented at it. I can turn it on and off like a light switch. Though at one point in my life I didn’t realize that I had my inner asshole turned on all the time. It took some people piling on me to figure it out. That appears to be what is happening to you right now. I was man enough to see the error of my ways and correct it.

                      Can you?

          2. Or you could just game on a PC and use Steam. There is no physical media (which unfortunately means no resale, but that’s a tradeoff for its other conveniences), you can install games on any computer you want via download, as many as you want, but you have to be logged into Steam as yourself to play them. Your characters/games are stored to the cloud and are therefore accessible no matter what computer you’re using as long as you’re online.

            Other than no resale (which is assuredly by design), Steam is pretty great.

            1. I do. I just thought H4 would be better on a console.

            2. Save your bullshit you PC $hill! My mom wants her IBM back.

              1. That’s my 386 and your mom can go fuck herself! Until our date tomorrow night, that is.

            3. And when steam goes bankrupt? Or when I am not connected to the Internet?

              1. Steam is great, but there are many issues as well. It is like posting to reason from your cell phone. Sure, it is great, but there are definitely problems.

                1. GOG.com is good too.

              2. Steam has an offline mode, and as for bankruptcy, well, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. I’m not overly worried if I can no longer access the games I bought five years ago. Plus Steam is owned by Valve (and is headquartered on the other side Lake Washington here, natch) and isn’t going anywhere soon. It’s very popular. I’ve been utterly satisfied with Steam.

                1. Or they get bought by Microsoft. And then Microsoft decides to merge with their own service. And now you have to use Microsoft crappy online service.

                  I agree that steam has a lot of positives though.

              3. 1. You can play offline in Steam – any game where the game itself doesn’t require you to be online.

                2. If Steam goes bankrupt you’ll be in the same position as you are now – none of your old games will work because the current OS is not compatible, the media has decayed and the data on the disk is corrupted, or the publisher’s DRM servers are offline now because the game’s been out 3 years and ‘nobody plays that shit anymore’ so you can’t verify a new install anyway.

                3. Install the game on your computer and even if Steam goes away you still have the game.

                4. Steam goes away you just pirate the thing.

                5. Steam is only going to go away in the near future in the sort of financial apocalypse that will see your time for playing videogames shrink to zero and your time sifting through garbage cans for your next meal increase drastically.

                1. and your time sifting through garbage cans for your next meal increase drastically.

                  Check your privilege! Dumpster diving is therapeutic.

                  1. Check your privilege! Dumpster diving is therapeutic.

                    Therapeutic isn’t the first word that comes to mind when I think of dumpster diving, but it can be fun. And rewarding. It is amazing what some people throw away. But therapeutic? I’m not digging it.

          3. Maybe Jerkface is right about double layers rarely being recoverable. My memory isn’t clear. But I know that bit about no way to make a backup copy is motherfucking bull shit. I have never run up against a disk that can’t be duplicated (PS, DVD video, CD audio, computer data disk, whatever) using commonplace equipment. It’s just fucking bumps on a piece of plastic. It’s not rocket surgery.

        3. So… that seems to have gone well.

  7. Trump was going to just ask all the Muslims and Mexicans and Muzzicans to leave nicely. He won’t need a police force to back that order up or anything. He won’t need to wipe his gold-flecked asshole with posse commitatus or anything.

    1. Of course, he probably thinks posse commitatus is something he can get Ivanka to do if he gets enough vodka-soaked tampons in her ass.

    2. Um…

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P…..ct#History

      When the U.S. Representatives and Senators from the former Confederate states reached Washington, they set as a priority legislation to prohibit any future President or Congress from directing, by military order or federal legislation, the imposition of federal troops in any U.S. state. By the 1878 election, Congress was dominated by the Democratic Party, and they passed the Posse Comitatus Act in 1878.

      1. Um . . .

        The president has a pen *and* a phone.

        You can damn well betcha that if the people won’t do what he wants, and the police can’t make them, that federal troops *will* be called in. NO ONE MUST BE ALLOWED TO STAND IN THE WAY OF PROGRESS.

        1. Actually I was pointing out that the Posse Comitatus Act was passed as a reaction to Reconstruction which I suppose makes opposition to the use of federal troops ipso facto racist.

          1. Oh, it looked like you were pointing out that there is still a *tiny*, tiny difference in law between ‘police’ and ‘federal troops’.

            But, as you point out, that difference is racist.

        2. Exactly. Why anyone thinks that Posse Comitatus would stop this is really beyond me. The president wipes his ass with the Constitution regarding war powers, so I can’t imagine a law (especially one from former slave owners!!!1!1!) would stop him/her (xir?). The only thing that would stop it is if Congress grew a spine and/or the military refused to go along.

    3. Cut off aid to sanctuary cities, end welfare for illegals, and enforce immigration law regarding employment, and lots will leave voluntarily. Less talk of amnesty has probably already had an influence and cut down on some illegal immigration. It’s silly to think that ICE will need to drag every illegal into a van. They got here voluntarily, so many will leave the same way.

      1. ” enforce immigration law regarding employment”

        Thanks but no thanks to your police state.

        ” Less talk of amnesty has probably already had an influence and cut down on some illegal immigration. ”

        Maybe it also made the winter milder too.

        1. Brown and white just don’t mix, Cytotoxic. There are DIFFERENT than all the other immigrants.

          1. Fucking illegals took my edit button, too. They*

        2. Just bomb them, right?

          I’m sure you have some wonderful insight here. Warmonger.

          1. LOL no one who thinks I am a ‘warmonger’ has any insight whatsoever.

      2. enforce immigration law regarding employment, and lots will leave voluntarily.

        Mainly law-abiding Americans who can’t get a job legally anymore.

        The illegals will still get paid under the table like they do now. I don’t understand how you could possibly think that immigration employment law *isn’t already* heavily enforced what with e-verify and draconian penalties – including jail time, for anyone caught employing someone without the state’s permission.

        Seriously dude, you’re correct that to make the illegals go away we need to make things really shitty for them – this country simply offers too much opportunity right now – but it would also require that you make things really shitty for the rest of us.

        And I don’t think immigration checkpoints, biometric scanners, warrantless ‘premise inspections’, and mandatory ID are worth the hassle given that the problems of illegal immigration are fairly minute.

        You’re in more danger from the *legal* Syrian refugees than Jorge from Honduras. The government wasted more of your money just between the F-35 and the Littoral Combat Ship than illegals have had spent on them for ‘stealing’ our free schooling and ER care.

        1. Once you realize that the ‘Immigrants took muh welfare’ lie is just an excuse for a baser motivation, it all makes sense.

  8. Trump’s incoherence on this actually sums up the issue very well. It is very complex and there are many contradictory issues involved.

    Despite the many issues with the way police brutality is handled, officers have legitimate concerns as employees. They are routinely put in positions where deadly mistakes are highly likely. Much more often than they should be. Our current method of dealing with this is to pretend that mo mistakes were made and cover the whole thing up. Unless there is enough power on the side of the victim, in which case we might mete out some punishment.

    This is completely incompetent.

    Every aspect of this issue has conflicting interests. The problem is that none of the major players are serious about solving any of it. The activists just want a scalp. The cops want absolute power. The citizens want to be left alone, but they want the other guy to be kept away from drugs and other vices.

    So he is exactly as incoherent as the nation is.

    1. The problem is that none of the major players are serious about solving any of it. The activists just want a scalp. The cops want absolute power. The citizens want to be left alone, but they want the other guy to be kept away from drugs and other vices.

      This.

      Also another issue is that solving this problem might require a major revamp of the concept of the police and of urban political structures which no one is willing to address.

    2. +1

      Which makes me think of another aspect of Trump’s appeal. He gets criticized for changed positions (e.g. on Syrian refugees), but voters like candidates who change positions toward current majority positions. Yes, it can be criticized as being shallow, being a weathervane, etc., but a weathervane who points in the direction you want to go now is better than one stuck pointing in a direction you don’t.

      1. “voters like candidates who change positions toward current majority positions.”

        LOL no not generally. If they did Kerry would have been prez.

        1. You missed the “in the right direction”part. Plus, he looks like Odo from DS9

      2. Shallow? Who wants a politician to be deep? Theoretically they shouldn’t have any opinions at all, but just do what it appears most of their polity wants, consistent with legal procedures.

  9. most people “respect” the police

    Fear is often mistaken for respect, just as power is often mistaken for authority.

  10. Hey, the UN just strongly condemned the Nork missile launch and that fixed that – maybe we can get them to strongly condemn police killing people for stupid or evil reasons.

    1. Go’ damn you Hans Brixs!

    2. “Hey, the UN just strongly condemned the Nork missile launch”

      Makes a change from normal

    3. I enjoyed watching ABC News trying to get the Republican field to commit to nuking North Korea to prevent them from launching a missile test.

  11. It is too bad he didn’t give a nice, 10th Amendment answer: “Police are the responsibility of states and localities, not the federal government. Washington DC is already doing too much, and incompetently.”

    1. Uh yeah but the USC also allows and I think even empowers DC to stop local authorities from committing crimes. There is no reason the feds should not arrest Arpaio this instant, as well as a bunch of other localized tyrants.

      1. I dont understand how Arpaio has escaped federal prosecution. Not having a deep understanding of the law on the matter, it certainly seems like he spends a lot of time way, way, way on the other side of the line.

        1. Because federal prosecution for these sorts of things basically *never* happens.

          Sure there are plenty of ‘investigations’. And that’s it. Arpaio picks on Mexicans so nobody is going to care. A goodly chunk of non-hispanic America out here in the west is either completely apathetic or actually rooting the guy on – he does get re-elected every time after all.

          If it were blacks – there’s a whole industry built around defending African Americans against injustices real and manufactured. Washington would be all over that shit. There’d simply be too large an outcry, too much profit to be gained by getting in the middle of that controversy.

          1. The trouble is, you need citizens’ grand juries, but they have no authority unless they’re attached to a court, & there aren’t any citizens’ courts except Wapner’s.

            Unless you (I mean that personally, not as in “one”) get to install a dictator, there’s no answer to this. No institution can simultaneously work for the people & do publicly what they don’t want done. It’s people all the way down, all the way up.

            1. Citizen’s Grand Juries are democracy in action – literally mob rule.

  12. “You remember a thug a lot more clearly than someone who was doing their job like they were supposed to.”

    I don’t know. It’s been probably close to twenty years now that a peace officer being helpful or decent is much more salient and memorable than him being a jerk. There’s no way I could ever recall every time I’ve interacted with thugs in uniform, but there’s a fair chance I could compose a memoir detailing every interaction that went the other way without forgetting one.

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