Bernie Sanders

Bernie Sanders Says He'd Raise Taxes. Of Course He Would.

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Bernie Sanders made something very clear tonight at a Democratic townhall event in Iowa: He wants to raise taxes.

"We will raise taxes. Yes we will," Sanders said in response to a question about how Sanders would pay for the immense cost of his single-payer health care plan, which would make government the universal insurer for every American.

In the plan, Sanders calls for individuals to pay an "income-based premium." But this is basically just another way of describing a new tax that would hit most everyone, including middle-income earners.

Sanders admitted as much tonight, but also defended himself, saying that under his plan, the taxes would replace health insurance premiums.

"But let me be clear," Sanders said, "There's a little bit of disingenunity out there. We will raise taxes but we are also going to eliminate private health insurance premiums for individuals and for businesses."

Even still, this would require raising about $1.35 trillion in new revenue each year—the initial cost estimate for Obamacare was a little shy of $1 trillion over a decade—under the rosiest possible assumptions. Actually, scratch that; rosy assumptions is too kind. The Sanders plan simply assumes that we'll reduce health care spending in the U.S. by nearly a half a trillion dollars a year, without offering any details at all about how that will happen. In fact, the incredibly generous, cover-everything-at-no-cost plan it seems to sketch would almost certainly not achieve the sort of savings Sanders imagines. If anything, it would likely lead to massive increases in health care utilization and spending. It is a fantasy of easy, effortless savings that makes no attempt to reckon with the trade-offs it would inevitably require.

So yes, Bernie Sanders is admitting the obvious: As president, he'd push to raise taxes. Of course he would! But even in this admission, he's not telling the whole truth about what his health care plan would entail.

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  1. Obviously a country much larger and much more populous than UK and more populous and with more inhabited land than Canada will solve the issues affected “universal healthcare”

    1. I mean the NHS and Canada’s healthcare systems are perfect and no one complains about services or that it is underfunded!

      1. Actually, Canada’s problem is not that the system is under-funded, it’s actually awash in money; Canada spends more per capita than any other country other than the USA.

        E.g.. The problem is structural; efficiency of services – that is those needed and in a timely fashion not to mention access.Mismanagement is also an issue- surprise. Around 75% of health budgets go straight into labor.

    2. We already know our government can do universal healthcare on a smaller scale. Look at how well run the VA is.

      1. Forget the VA, check out the IHS.

    3. Another George H. W. Bush, but he doesn’t lie about it.

      1. Read my lips: Plenty of new taxes.

  2. The one saving grace in all of Bernie’s pie-in-the-sky plans is that there’s no way in hell they make it past even a Dem majority congress.

    1. Of course people thought that Obama wouldn’t be able to do Obamacare and people now think that Trump won’t be able to do the bad things he is promising.

      1. Obama had a Dem supermajority in the Senate and still couldn’t get a “public option” through.

    2. He would really encourage all the congressional gems to let their inner pinko freak flags fly.

  3. Has he answered what he is going to do about all of the former health insurance employees who will be unemployed?

    1. They’d be unemployable. Off to the salt mines.

      1. Vice President Bloomberg has banned salt-eating. VP executive order 17-002. The first one established the use of VP executive orders. The third one will exempt members of the Senior Executive Service from the ban.

    2. Luckily for them, there will be an even more massive federal health insurance bureaucracy they will be able to find jobs at, and with better benefits too! Sanders is totes smart!

    3. More importantly what about all the public sector employees and Democratic elected officials and appointees on state insurance commissions?

      (This is why we have 50 state exchanges instead of a single national one.)

    4. They all become government employees…duh!

  4. While obviously having universal health care would result in medical services being used more, it would also pretty much eliminate the many parallel bureaucracies of health insurance companies.

    I mean, there are cases to be made against universal health care – for instance, it somewhat amounts to slavery, forcing doctors to work for the government at a certain rate – but let’s not act like other countries haven’t managed to do it fairly successfully, for less than half of what we pay for health care.

    Would it work here? Probably not (see the VA), but I don’t think it’s that crazy seeing it work reasonably well in Canada or the UK and think it might work here.

    Certainly no worse than forcing people to buy health insurance. This way you might be forcing people, but it’s doctors and health professionals, not everyone in the whole country. ANd they would have the option to quit practicing

    1. yeah, there’s a case to be made against universal health care: it’s not the govt’s job and why the hell anyone would want the same bureaucratic organization that has fucked schools, infrastructure, and liberty in general to run health care is the real mystery. We’ve seen govt-run health care: Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA, for three examples.

      As it is, health insurance is largely a cartel run by govt. Otherwise, states would have more than 2 or 3 companies competing with each other, sort of like car insurance or homeowners’. Instead, govt limits competition, making things more expensive; govt mandates what group plans must cover, making things more expensive; and govt refuses to address tort reform, which contributes to making things more expensive. But, sure; the only thing better than some govt is more govt.

    2. eliminate the many parallel bureaucracies of health insurance companies.

      Except it will replace it with even more bloated government healthcare bureaucracy.

      I don’t think it’s that crazy seeing it work reasonably well in Canada or the UK and think it might work here.

      Considering how many Canadians go to the US for healthcare, how dentistry and veterinarians are far more efficient and all the moaning about healthcare cuts, I would say no?

      1. eliminate the many parallel bureaucracies of health insurance companies

        Is that like the many parallel bureaucracies of Kroger, Publix, Food Lion, Ingles, Foodmax, etc. that keep my food bills lower through everybody competing to find the most efficient way to get food on my table?

        1. Come on now. You and I both know that food is a commodity and not a fundamental human necessity…

      2. I lived in Canada for three years. I didn’t have to use the healthcare system very often because I was in good health, but the few times I did have to use it, it went like this.

        Because there is a doctor shortage in Quebec, finding a primary care physician is almost impossible. So instead I had to go to the free clinic before it opened so I could get a number and a place in line. Even then it was, at a minimum, an hour wait to go through initial screening, and then at least another 30 minutes to see a doctor. The doctors were, in my limited experience, interested only in getting me out as quickly as possible. After 5-10 minutes, I’d get my Rx or whatever, wait another 10 minutes for everything to process, and then leave. There was no WiFi at the clinic so this represented a wasted morning for me. Luckily I had a job with flexible hours. But I only had to pay $200 total into the fund, and the care I received was competent and sufficient.

        So I while I’m not singing the praises of Canadian healthcare, it wasn’t *awful*. But that completely misses the point. People are really good at adapting to the circumstances they find themselves in, and I have no doubt that most Canadians find their healthcare system to be perfectly tolerable. But the real question isn’t “Is it good or bad?”, but rather “What would people choose if they had the choice?” I wouldn’t choose the Canadian or current American systems.

        1. I’m guessing you didn’t have anything serious, or time sensitive wrong with you. The cancer and heart disease survival rates for Canada’s health system are underwhelming at best. Which is what Bernie is shooting for. Pay LOTS more, and get far less.

          1. yeah but the less would be distributed more evenly. are you even american?

            1. No, it really wouldn’t. And I’m one of the Americans that got fucked out of health coverage by Obamacare. $247/mo. in 2013, to $566/mo. in 2014. And around $900/mo. for 2016. So no health coverage for me.

              Bernie Sanders should be executed, along with every other communist traitor.

        2. So I while I’m not singing the praises of Canadian healthcare, it wasn’t *awful*.

          It was awful given how expensive it was. And that’s the Canadian system, a system that spends massive amounts of money. The waiting times stretch to hours in European systems.

        3. The question isn’t “what would people choose”. That’s immaterial. The moral question is, “Do people have a choice?”

      3. I lived in Canada for three years. I didn’t have to use the healthcare system very often because I was in good health, but the few times I did have to use it, it went like this.

        Because there is a doctor shortage in Quebec, finding a primary care physician is almost impossible. So instead I had to go to the free clinic before it opened so I could get a number and a place in line. Even then it was, at a minimum, an hour wait to go through initial screening, and then at least another 30 minutes to see a doctor. The doctors were, in my limited experience, interested only in getting me out as quickly as possible. After 5-10 minutes, I’d get my Rx or whatever, wait another 10 minutes for everything to process, and then leave. There was no WiFi at the clinic so this represented a wasted morning for me. Luckily I had a job with flexible hours. But I only had to pay $200 total into the fund, and the care I received was competent and sufficient.

        So I while I’m not singing the praises of Canadian healthcare, it wasn’t *awful*. But that completely misses the point. People are really good at adapting to the circumstances they find themselves in, and I have no doubt that most Canadians find their healthcare system to be perfectly tolerable. But the real question isn’t “Is it good or bad?”, but rather “What would people choose if they had the choice?” I wouldn’t choose the Canadian or current American systems.

        1. I’ve lived in America all my life and always had insurance. Every time I’ve needed to go to a doctor my choice was emergency room, urgent care center, or wait weeks or a month to see a primary doctor.

          When I’ve had to go to the emergency room or urgent care center, it’s comparable to what you described, waiting a long time (one time we waited four hours, another we got in at a good time and waited five minutes).

          So you’re not really convincing me that Canada is so different. We just pay more for it in America.

          1. Small number of data points, I guess. In the US, I’ve only had to go to an urgent care clinic outside of normal business hours. Other than that I’ve always been able to schedule an appointment with a primary care physician with a turnaround time of typically a few days (I’ve never had a need to be seen immediately since I was a kid, outside of the one time I had to go to urgent care, and that was because I was about to go on a trip and needed a steroid shot for a horrible poison oak reaction…I definitely could have waited under other circumstances).

            But my main point was precisely that Canada’s system isn’t horrible (at least not in my experience), but that it also isn’t the system I would choose if I had the choice. And I argue *that* is the standard we should be aiming for — choice — not something that people can live with because they have to.

            1. i think drug development is a million times more important than anything else in medicine, and raising the bar for current health care a tiny bit has far, far, far less of an effect on human health and happiness (if that’s even quantifiable) than, for example, developing a drug that cures cancer (to be cliched). as fucked as our health system is in the US we also develop something in the 95% area of new drugs; just another way we’re subsidizing healthcare in the rest of the world. the argument now seems like how many band aids should we use on this bullet wound?

          2. And FWIW, I had a good experience in urgent care. Short wait, friendly doctor, and much nicer facility than the clinic in Canada. But, again, small number of data points — your experience will vary.

    3. Can’t forget the NHS prescription charges were introduced early on since the UK couldn’t pay for it!

      1. Suddenly throwing everyone into a single payer system would be disastrous for the economy.

        1. You must be a doctor. Yes, maybe you couldn’t afford to send your kid off to Harvard with a new BMW, but I imagine you became a doctor to help people, particularly yourself.

          1. Ah, the politics of envy.

          2. Is that before or after they repay their average $170,000 in student loans? If you think Doctor’s spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and over a decade of their life just learning how to be a Doctor you’re nuts.

            Single-Pay healthcare results in your ‘Doctor’ being an LVN since it’s pretty hard for the 250,000 doctors in the U.S. to take care of over 300,000,000 people. Scarcity can’t be legislated away.

            1. *spend over a decade of their life just learning how to be a Doctor to earn a bureaucrats salary you’re nuts!

            2. but they no longer pay for college….its free. everyone can afford to be a doctor now! Just show up for class and boom…you graduate doctors left and right.

          3. Yeah, after eight years of school, working eighty hours a week as a resident for peanuts, and amassing hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans to do something few people can, it’s incredibly selfish to want some kind of financial return.

        2. Don’t you mean: “Suddenly removing the cost of paying shareholder dividends from health care and pharmaceuticals would be disastrous for the economy.”?

      2. Additionally, the NHS is abysmal with communication between patients and doctoR’s and specialist. My wife’s grandmother had two doctor going back and forth changing her medications, never actually talking to each other. She was fine, then sick, then deathly ill in weeks.

        1. anybody who’s been to the dmv should see why nationalizing healthcare isnt a great idea

    4. JeremyR|1.25.16 @ 11:30PM|#
      “While obviously having universal health care would result in medical services being used more, it would also pretty much eliminate the many parallel bureaucracies of health insurance companies.”

      You mean the ones that compete with each other to keep costs down? Terrific!
      Fuck off, slaver.

      1. Government run healthcare would be undeniably worse than what we have now, but that doesn’t mean that the current system is some sort of market driven beacon of efficiency. Anybody who has had to deal with any of the large health insurance companies knows that they are almost equally as bureaucratic, insane and inefficient as any government agency.

        1. That’s because, due to 2-3 decades of intervention it effectively IS a government bureaucracy. When I trot my “corpora-fascism” it is this type of thing I am talking about. Health, energy, education (largely), infrastructure are all stitched to government. There’s the veneer of independence but in practicality there is none.

        2. thom|1.26.16 @ 8:37AM|#
          “Government run healthcare would be undeniably worse than what we have now, but that doesn’t mean that the current system is some sort of market driven beacon of efficiency.”
          I do not disagree

          “Anybody who has had to deal with any of the large health insurance companies knows that they are almost equally as bureaucratic, insane and inefficient as any government agency.”
          BUT (and it’s a large one), each one still has competition, and none of them have guns.

    5. Dumbass, as a previous article pointed out, profits from the 10 largest insures in 2014….12 billion…..CBO estimate of fraud losses the same year, 40 billion. Who would you rather write a monthly check to?

      1. Well, I’d need to know who’s benefiting from the fraud. Something tells me it’s the same people.

    6. It works well here in Taiwan, and the doctors can set up a private practice if they want to, and charge what they like. Since the doctor’s labor union (the AMA) has a monopoly on services, medical care should be regulated as a public utility.

      1. “Since the doctor’s labor union (the AMA) has a monopoly on services, medical care should be regulated as a public utility.”

        You’ve made two propositions in that statement:
        1. The AMA has a monopoly
        2. Therefore, medical care should be “regulated” as a “public utility”

        Why have you completely skipped over the idea of undoing the AMA’s government-enforced monopoly?

        1. The AMA is hardly a monopoly

          “…somewhere in the neighbourhood of 15% of practising US doctors now belong to the AMA.”

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm…..MC3153537/

          1. My point is that Benito’s plan would create a monopoly much worse than the AMA.

          2. But state medical boards are basically run by the AMA.

      2. I think that whatever it is you do for a living should also be regulated as a public utility, so the government can make sure you are not making too much money.

    7. Yeah, Jeremy, I’ll just quit my life’s work. Fuck that.

    8. ” result in medical services being used more, it would also pretty much eliminate the many parallel bureaucracies of health insurance companies.”

      After all, no one needs more than one choice of medical services.

      And when the govt quack refuses to provide services, where can you turn?

      Sanders can only be elected if the Heffalumps go into extreme retard mode.

    9. Is somewhat slavery like somewhat pregnant?

      I mean, it’s not like some other countries haven’t proven the inevitable results of full on socialism either.

      1. those were other countries though. we dont know how it’ll work in america until we try, and what do we have to lose?

        1. Everything. But don’t we deserve it for being prosperous and mostly white?

          ^ What proggies believe.

    10. Well, maybe the doctors who became doctors to make a lot of money will quit and become plumbers or management consultants, and the ones who became doctors to save lives and ease suffering will stay, and we’ll all be better off…

      1. I’ll spare you the rage and snark and answer seriously. I’m a veterinarian. Caring about your patients and expecting to be compensated for expertise are not mutually exclusive. I’m sure a lot of people will dismiss this as an inflated sense of self worth, but being a really good doctor is difficult. It takes many years of education, learning (and, over time, integrating) a huge body of knowledge (and committing to staying familiar with advances in medicine). Personal interest and empathy will only get you so many qualified M.D.’s, given the amount of work involved. Not to mention: fuck you for telling doctors that they don’t care about their patients because they want to reap the rewards of a difficult and stressful profession. (Yeah, general family practice is probably not that stressful. That doesn’t change the validity of the rest of the rant.)

      2. Super late to the game but I just need to tell Gene Poole to go fuck him/herself if only to make myself feel better. Go fuck yourself you horrible asshole.

    11. Keep in mind that in economies of scale, inefficiencies get magnified as well. The U.S population is almost an order of magnitude larger than Canada’s.

  5. Raise taxes, eh?

    You almost got me, Bernie. I almost fell for that “Get money out of politics” line.

    Can’t fool me, Bernie. Taxes. Money. Out of politics.

    Ha! What a card!

  6. “Energy costs will necessarily skyrocket” didn’t stop Osabama.

    1. And then they tanked into the dirt.

      1. A fill-up at the pump is cheap.

        How is your electric bill?

      2. Way to ignore that part about how they managed to avoid costs “skyrocketing.”

        Now tell me what you say to all the coal miners and CSX workers who have been let go over the last couple years.

      3. My electricity and natural gas rates are steadily climbing. In fact, I just received a letter from Avista Utilities the other week explaining there is yet ANOTHER forthcoming rate hike for both those things.

        Goddamn Obama. May he burn in Hell.

  7. the incredibly generous, cover-everything-at-no-cost plan it seems to sketch would almost certainly not achieve the sort of savings Sanders imagines. If anything, it would likely lead to massive increases in health care utilization and spending

    There is no maybe, it definitely would. Anyone who doubts this need only look at college tuition, and then double it.

  8. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do..

    Clik This Link inYour Browser….

    ? ? ? ? http://www.Jobstribune.com

  9. Americans don’t want to let insurance companies discriminate in any way based on your health condition. That widely-held feeling creates massive contradictions, and it’s going to lead to Berniecare.

  10. Quote of the Night came from Hillary:

    Bomb, yes.

    1. Hillary is no Stalin, but she’ll do in a pinch, amIright?

  11. I find it laughable he thinks it all can be done with a 2.2% employee tax and a 6% payroll tax along with higher taxes on the rich (52% over 10 million). Considering all the goodies he wants to include as well as all his other programs, it will require a massive tax increase.

    1. Yes, the 8% of your income requirement from Obamacare will just be a new 8% tax.

    2. I look forward to the various Powerball/Mega Millions take home estimate discussions when it’s known that the federal government gets more than the winner.

    3. The disconnect with proglodytes is that they see no connection with taxes/costs and people’s behavior. They are always using money from the future to pay for costs as they currently are, never expecting them to rise to match the now subsidized demand.

  12. I find it laughable he thinks it all can be done with a 2.2% employee tax and a 6% payroll tax along with higher taxes on the rich (52% over 10 million). Considering all the goodies he wants to include as well as all his other programs, it will require a massive tax increase.

    1. Maybe a tax on sqrls?

    2. 100% won’t be enough to pay for Bernie’s Bullshit. Which is what his platform should be called.

  13. At least he’s honest about what he plans to do (i.e. raise taxes).

    1. This. Everyone else running is also going to raise taxes too. They will simply call it ‘deficit spending’ and let the taxes be taken out of everyone’s disposable income via devaluation until it turns into direct taxes on our kids and grandkids and their kids and grandkids.

    1. if only the electorate read Bastiat

      1. Even if they would, they would nod and point to everybody else.

        1. truth-zing!

  14. “it would likely lead to massive increases in health care utilization and spending.”

    I saw statistics that Germans, with “free” health care, average 50% more visits to the doctor each year than do
    Americans. Every hangnail must be an emergency as the average number of visits was over 5 per year.

  15. he’s a Socialist so he was told there’d be no math.

  16. Is 1.35 trillion each year supposed to be a scary number? Let’s write it out.
    $1,350,000,000,000/year. Okay, that’s a lot of zeros. But how many people would that cover? US Population is about 318 million, or written out
    318,000,000 people.

    So how much is that per person? $1,350,000,000,000/318,000,000 = ~ $4,245/person.

    But not all people work and pay taxes. Let’s just look at workers. According tot he Bureau of Labor, we have somewhere around 250 million workers.

    So $1,350,000,000,000/250,000,000 = ~$5,400/worker

    Now, that assumes a uniform distribution, but it wouldn’t be. It would be another progressive tax. But how much do people currently pay in insurance? I can’t find easy numbers on that one, so I’ll just use my own. I’m a 30-something guy with a self + family plan that’s in the mid-range for what my employer offers. I pay about $120 every two weeks, or $3,120/year. My employer kicks in a little more, but let’s just say they match. So my current insurance plan is $6,240/year.

    Replacing $6,240/year with $5,400/year?

    That $1.35 trillion isn’t so scary anymore. You can quibble over whether it would work out, if the bureaucracy savings would amount to enough, if all the doctors would flee America in a huff, and so-on, but just on the accounting line, I don’t see anything objectionable.

    1. The problem is that it will inevitably cost more than what even Bernie is estimating–and he’s also proposing to eliminate the private health insurance industry entirely, so there won’t be any other choice but the government plan. People like him have no understanding of the limits of scale and think a system that works well in mostly white countries with 10% of our population will work over here too.

      I was watching an episode of “Inside Man” on schools, where Morgan Spurlock goes to Finland to see why their school system works so well (it doesn’t do standardized tests, teachers are paid VERY well compared to here, and of course “everything is free!!”). His host mentioned that their system works so well because of “trust”. Well, that only applies to economically stable, culturally and ethnically homogenous societies. It falls apart in low-trust, hyper-diverse ones like we have.

      1. Sieg Heil!

      2. And those systems don’t work all that well in those other countries. Just like none of our socialized medical subsystems work all that great here.

        1. comparisons to other countries healthcare costs are meaningless unless drug r&d is taken into account. the us does around 95% (plus or minus a few points) of that

    2. So $1,350,000,000,000/250,000,000 = ~$5,400/worker

      So the guy at McDonald’s is paying $5400 a year, too? Doubtful.

      1. you find an average (or mean) by dividing the total whatever by the number of people it applies to. that doesnt mean that everyone is exactly this number. you’re welcome

    3. Not everyone has employer plans. You seem to understand it wouldnt be a uniform distribution but yet insist on using that to asses your situation. Lower income employees aren’t going to be paying that and it has to come from somewhere. My employer plan + my contribution is 5K per year…..so I am already losing 400 and likely a lot more since it isnt uniform as you detailed.

      Also i am thinking the estimates are on the low side and all these grand cost savings Bernie thinks will happen due to no profits and less overhead is very wishful thinking. A government monopoly will increase the overhead due to incentives and the fraud will go up.

      1. personally i want my doctors to make a profit off me. i don’t imagine them to be in some special class of supernaturally selfless geniuses, so i like there being some motivation to provide good care.

  17. So Bernie’s voters want him to raise taxes?

    How many of them want to pay more taxes?

    1. I don’t think they pay and wont pay taxes in the first place which is the appeal. They strike me as those who are well off like from their parents being their caretakers and such but dont actually earn themselves enough to pay any taxes

      1. Federal income taxes that is

        1. Earned wages ARE NOT “income”. They’re an even exchange of labor for pay.

          1. Ok what does this have to do with the federal government taxing income?

          2. I agree with you but unfortunately that is how it is

  18. Here we go already, CONGRESS shall lay and collect taxes, not some idiot who never read the US Constitution.

  19. Funny that the folks crowing about too much money in politics are the most keen on confiscating more of your and my money for the government coffers

  20. I am a retired American citizen living permanently in another country. I can not use Medicare not any health insurance where I live. There are no doctors who will agree to being paid that way. I can accept that. But I can not accept being forced to pay for something which I cannot use.

    The entire Obamacare thing is a hoax. The deductibles are so high that an average person who is being forced to pay for it will never receive any benefits. What amazes me is why so many brainwashed socialists actually think it is such a wonderful thing.

    1. Just curious – what other country do you live in that has a better health system than the one you want to preserve in the US?

  21. That $1.3 Trillion figure ignores how he’d reduce medical expenses. He’d eliminate the middle man (insurance companies) and kill off the stranglehold that the pharmaceutical industry has on our prices. The US spends twice what other advanced countries pay for medical care, mainly because of those two issues. You only have to read a few op-eds from Wendell Potter, the Cigna whistleblower to realize how screwed we are in the US.

    As to cutting taxes, the present selection of Republicans (and the one Libertarian) running for President seem to be touting some form of flat tax. Every one of those plans would put us Trillion$ in the hole. At present, as long as you quote Sanders’ complete explanation, it makes sense. Unfortunately, the flat-taxers don’t even bother to explain how they’d balance their shortfall.

    1. You are in the wrong place to be floating that turd of an idea. Government fails at almost everything, and makes everything far more expensive than it’s private industry counterpart. Maybe you should get out of the US and become a socialist foreigner somewhere else. So we real Americans have a chance at fixing what you and your friends have done to the US.

    2. The reason the US pays more than everywhere else for medical expenses is because Americans have an entitled notion that everyone else should pay for us to live forever. We do that (mostly) thru private insurance now but that same entitlement mentality would transfer over to any socialized system and bankrupt it quickly. If you don’t believe that Americans have an entitlement mentality when it comes to medical care, just go to your HR benefits department and ask them how many employees whine endlessly about everything the insurance companies ‘reject’.

      The reason other countries can often succeed with socialized medicine is because a)they put their systems/rationing in place right after a war where people felt lucky just to still be alive or b)they have more realistic expectations of what ‘medical care’ can actually deliver so they don’t feel compelled to spend until everyone’s broke.

      1. Also id add the other countries get away with lower drug prices is because the US effectively subsidizes them now. The drug companies put up with the lower prices in foreign countries since they can make it up here.

      2. Also id add the other countries get away with lower drug prices is because the US effectively subsidizes them now. The drug companies put up with the lower prices in foreign countries since they can make it up here.

    3. Eliminate the middle man? Uh the government would be the middle man. The public spending per capita alone is greater than all but 2 or 3 countries for which it is close. Id be willing to stack up insurance industry profits vs the fraud medicare has each year.

      Not sure about your fat tax claim as i thought the the talking point is the rich don’t pay their fair share and get out of taxes thru all these loopholes? Actually the bottom 40% dont pay federal income taxes while the 1% are around 17% effective rates. A flat tax of 15% is a tax increase on everyone

      1. In 2010, for every one dollar earned as profit in the health insurance industry there were four dollars paid out by the fed gov in medicare/Medicaid fraud.

  22. Yeah, I mean it’s not like he’d be the first official to raise taxes. He may just be the first one who didn’t promise not to.

  23. http://armstrongeconomics-wp.s…..h-Rate.jpg

    Even government charts show the more government grows the less productive the voluntary sector becomes.

  24. Current US revenues are approximately 3.1T per year. Bernie’s free stuff proposals are estimated to be 1.8T. His new demands on the system are about a 60% increase in required revenue generation. It appears that his plan is to pull the money currently being spent on premiums to make that up. Except that, whoops, the bottom half of wage earners are currently subsidized, mainly by the middle who pay a ridiculous portion of their income towards it. But wait, only the rich will be severely taxed, right? Wrong, 1.8T per year over ten years represents most of the wealth of the top 1%, but maybe that’s the plan anyway? But seriously, there’s no way you can burden the economy like that without severe repercussions.

  25. Start working at home with Google! It’s by-far the best job I’ve had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this – 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $100 per hour. I work through this link

    ??
    Click This Link inYour Browser….

    ???????? http://www.WebReport30.Com

  26. With Bernies plan, the other questions I have is how many people will he unemploy when he kills the private health insurance industry?

  27. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do..

    Clik This Link inYour Browser….

    ? ? ? ? http://www.Workpost30.Com

  28. just before I saw the receipt that said $7527 , I accept that my mom in-law woz like actualey making money in there spare time from there pretty old laptop. . there aunt had bean doing this for less than twentey months and at present cleared the depts on there appartment and bourt a great new Citro?n 2CV . look here…….
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  29. just before I saw the receipt that said $7527 , I accept that my mom in-law woz like actualey making money in there spare time from there pretty old laptop. . there aunt had bean doing this for less than twentey months and at present cleared the depts on there appartment and bourt a great new Citro?n 2CV . look here…….
    Clik This Link inYour Browser.
    ???????? http://www.Jobstribune.com

  30. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do..

    Clik This Link inYour Browser….

    ??????? http://www.netjoin10.com

  31. year. In this year till now I have earned 66k dollars with my pc, despite the fact that I am a college student. Even

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    ? ? ? ? http://www.workpost30.com

  32. I’m sure a lot of people will dismiss this as an inflated sense of self worth, but being a really good doctor is difficult.

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