Pornography

Rough Porn, Rape, and James Deen: Why We Should Stop Connecting the Dots

Plenty of people enjoy rough sex and even "rape" porn without ever committing real-world sex crimes.

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James Deen/Instagram

Allegations that porn star James Deen sexually assaulted several female co-stars have put the adult film industry on the defensive. With his boy-next-door looks and feminist-friendly talking points, Deen has become an industry darling since entering the business in 2004, as well as something of a mainstream celebrity (he starred in 2013's The Canyons with Lindsey Lohan) and a respected voice on issues related to sex work and consent. At the same time, Deen starred in ample films featuring rough sex, bondage, and other risqué onscreen antics. Now the usual suspects are pointing to Deen's alleged real-world violence in order to demonize kinky porn more generally. 

The allegations against Deen started Saturday, when popular porn performer Stoya, who dated Deen in 2013, tweeted: "James Deen held me down and fucked me while I said no, stop, used my safeword. I just can't nod and smile when people bring him up anymore."

Soon after, two more porn actresses—Tori Lux and Ashley Fires—came forward with their own claims of victimization by Deen. In both cases, the women said Deen attacked them while on set. And Joanna Angel, who dated Deen from 2004-2010, on Sunday tweeted "You have my support @stoya. I'm here for you. This was followed by a tweet calling Deen "dead on the inside." 

"He's literally the worst person I've ever met," wrote Angel. "That's all I'll say for now." 

Though Angel declined to say more, porn actress Sydney Leathers told the Daily Beast that Angel had warned her about Deen when Leathers was getting started. "She told me…that I should avoid him—that he has boundary issues, basically that he tries to break women," said Leathers. "I took it to mean that he is dangerous." 

Deen defended himself on Twitter, calling the assault allegations false and defamatory. "I respect women and I know and respect limits both professionally and privately," Deen wrote

Nonetheless, Deen has already been dumped by porn site Kink.com, where he appeared frequently, and by women's blog The Frisky, where he was a regular columnist. Deen voluntarily stepped down from his chairmanship of the Adult Performer Advocacy Committee. 

Is James Deen "the Bill Cosby of porn"? pondered Aurora Snow, an adult film veteran who has performed with Deen many times. Snow says she's never personally seen Deen be violent, but notes that he has "been a regular contributor to the rape fantasy genre" and "films approximately one bondage, S&M, or mock rape scene for every three regular ones." He's also spoken to interviewers about enjoying and being "pretty good at having rough sex." 

"Rape in an industry where sex—and even violent sex—is treated as just another day at the office can become a bit muddled for some," Snow concludes. 

Shades of this sentiment can also be found "from the radical right to second-wave feminists," as Margaret Corvid points out at The Establishment. Because Deen acted-out rough, kinky, and faux non-consensual sex on camera, it's no wonder he committed sexual assault in real life, suggest the likes of Canadian feminist Meghan Murphy. Or because all porn should be considered violence against women, there's no difference between what Stoya accuses Deen of doing and all on-camera sex.

It's not unfamiliar territory when it comes to porn; folks have long worried that the genre will warp the sexual expectations of those who watch it. And outside of the porn world, we see similar arguments all the time: violent video games lead to mass shootings, rap music leads to gun violence, BDSM erotica leads women into abusive relationships, etc. Yet recent research shows that these theories are mostly bunk. Ordinary people, including children, can distinguish between real and fictional violence, or between dramatized sex and real sex. There's even evidence that people who watch more porn hold more feminist gender views

Research has also shown people can tell the difference between rough sexual play and actually abusive or violent behavior. In one recent study, on the popular erotica series 50 Shades of Grey, Michigan State University researchers found young women (ages 18-24) could easily distinguish between the characters' consensual BDSM activity and the male lead's abusive tendencies.

There's simply not good evidence to support the theory that watching rough sex in porn will provoke real world violence from those viewing it.

If the assault allegations against Deen are true, it could be construed as anecdotal evidence that participating in this sort of porn provokes sexual violence. But the connection is purely speculative. It could just as easily be imagined that Deen chose to perform in these sorts of films because he was already turned on by the thought of committing acts of sexual violence. And if Deen really did play up his nice-guy, feminist image while simultaneously abusing multiple women, that would seem to be the behavior of a sociopath, not someone simply confused about sexual boundaries because of porn. 

Though I wish it went without saying, there are plenty of people who enjoy all sorts of rough sex and even rape play—in their real lives and in the erotic entertainment they consume—without ever committing real-world sex crimes. Portraying Deen's alleged assaults as par for the course with kinksters does a disservice to the many, many folks who can tie someone up or slap someone around in bed without ever violating the bounds of sexual consent. Meanwhile, notes Corvid, it "gives ammunition to scumbags like MMA fighter War Machine's lawyers, who claim that Christy Mack, his former partner whom he beat nearly to death, must have consented to the beating because of her work in porn."  

But blaming kinky entertainment for violent actions not only downplays perpetrators' culpability while further stigmatizing kink and sex work. It also shifts attention from legit issues in the porn industry, like why performers who are assaulted on set don't feel like they can come forward. If the Deen scandal should make us question anything about the porn industry, it's how to remedy that—not whether bondage porn should be banned.

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  1. Sydney Leathers told the Daily Beast that Angel had warned her about Deen when Leathers was getting started. “She told me… that I should avoid him?that he has boundary issues, basically that he tries to break women,” said Leathers. “I took it to mean that he is dangerous.”

    As in Anthony Wiener dick pic chick?

      1. gross.

      2. She also got a dick pic from that Carlos Danger dude.

    1. Yes. She’ll insert herself into any situation for attention.

      Note that the Daily Beast quoted her in the story, in spite of the fact that she’s never met him. That’s some mighty tasty hearsay.

        1. That disgusting pile is right up your alley.

          1. Oh, and when you google her, the autocomplete suggests “labiaplasty”. I don’t even want to know.

            1. Oh, come on Playa. That sounds right up your alley.

              1. And when you say alley, you mean his sphincter, right?

            2. Isn’t that the chick that looks like a two pound open-face roast beef sandwich?

              Pass.

              1. Not after the surgery, presumably.

                1. Unless I’m mistaken, and labiaplasty actually means “add more beef to the curtains”.

                  IDK, man. Get off my lawn.

                  1. “Rhinoplasty” usually means making a nose smaller. I’d assume the same goes for labiaplasty. I don’t think you find a lot of women worrying that their snatch doesn’t look enough like a roast beef sandwich. Though everything is someone’s fetish.

              2. Would you like some mayo on that sammich?

          2. Some men enjoy prostate play.

            1. “Some men enjoy prostate play.”

              They make great hackysacks:
              http://www.amazon.com/Prostate…..B000X2BTM8

  2. “He’s literally the worst person I’ve ever met,” wrote Angel. “That’s all I’ll say for now.”

    Whoa… whoa now.

    Also, it’s amazing what a fucking tweet can do to a guy’s career…

    1. But everyone here always says Twitter doesn’t matter in the real world…

      1. Oh it matters, especially as a solid original news source.

    2. Obviously Angel has never met Nicole.

      1. Forget Lobster Girl, this is something that can turn the Reason Webathon around.

    3. I don’t understand how you date someone without realizing until it’s too late that they’re the worst person you’ve ever met. I don’t consider myself an exceptional judge of character, but I think I’d be able to tell that someone was the worst before I started spending so much time with them that we were in a relationship.

      1. I don’t particularly understand that either, but sometimes people see what they want to see, and not what’s actually in front of them.

        1. I like you. Do you like me?

          1. Does liking your mom count? Because then I can give you an affirmative.

            1. Nevermind. I got to know you.

        2. And sometimes people are good at hiding their insanity or psychopathy.

      2. I think many people know they’re getting with someone questionable, but they don’t care in the early stages.

        1. Especially when they think the relationship bishop can help their career.

          1. Not sure where the “bishop” came from.

            1. He runs the church?

            2. I figured you were talking about your dick. The relationship bishop must not be neglected!

      3. Some people live for drama. They are attracted to people who will give it to them.

        Others are depressed and want to be controlled. The problems arise when they aren’t controlled how they want to be or the depression gets better.

        That’s pretty much the two reasons I’ve seen people get into abusive relationships for. Yes, I am actually blaming the victim here for getting into these situations.

        1. That’s not victim blaming. I’m bipolar and have been under control (meaning I’m even-keeled) for close to fifteen years now. The thing is, you can walk away from the dramatists and decline to participate in their nonsense when you are better, but the drama will go on, with or without you.

        2. “Others are depressed and want to be controlled. The problems arise when they aren’t controlled how they want to be or the depression gets better.”
          Smart.

      4. Ask anyone who’s ever been through a divorce.

        That souless seething cauldron of hatred that you once were married to had some redeeming characteristics at one time.

      5. If the allegations are true, Deen managed to convince rather a large number of people that he was a nice guy even though he was anything but. So it would hardly be surprising that he could fool someone he was specifically trying to impress. Sociopaths do that sort of thing all the time.

      6. I don’t understand how you date someone without realizing until it’s too late that they’re the worst person you’ve ever met.

        I can… having done it…

        In my case, she was crafting an image that looked very solid to me and threadbare to people who weren’t me that were paying attention. Every time something happened that raised a question in my mind or prompted a friend to question her, she had a great answer – and one that played on my severe case of white-knight-itis. I wanted to believe she was my soulmate; I wanted to believe that all the bits that bothered me would become better with time and with love; I wanted to believe that her professions of undying love for me were true.

        It would take me years to figure out that even during our dating stage she was lying to me… :/

      7. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of dating involved, just a lot of sex.

    4. Clearly, she’s never met Nikki.

  3. “If the assault allegations against Deen are true, it could be construed as anecdotal evidence that participating in this sort of porn provokes sexual violence. But the connection is purely speculative.”

    In all your denouncing of connections you overlooked the clearly correct one:

    “feminist-friendly talking points”

    Never trust a male feminist!

    1. to be fair, Deen himself rejected being called a feminist.

      1. Well, he’s just modest, plenty of the greats have also rejected the term.

        Don’t tip my bandwagon. He’s been called a “feminist porn star” enough for me not to care about minor details.

    2. It also could be that some one who is sexually violent would participate in theat genre of porn. There is a chicken and egg issue there.

      1. ^This

        And he could be a violent asshole for all I know and it wouldn’t even occur to me to tie it to his genre of porn, but I suppose some people need this pointed out to them.

  4. OT (but somehow related): via Drudge’s headline:

    DICAPRIO RAPED BY BEAR IN FOX MOVIE!

    1. Is that for real?!

      Ned Beatty should have given Leonardo some career advice…

        1. It was consensual?

      1. I am sure he is exaggerating, but that is the front page of Drudge, which is hilarious, which is why I shared.

    2. Does Ned Beatty play the bear?

      1. Verdammt noch mal.

    3. That movie looks good. I saw the trailer in the theater recently and it seemed like the best thing going (of the 15 trailers they showed.)

      1. I’d prefer Tom Hardy in the DiCaprio role. More screen time for Tom = better movie for me.

        1. Bah, I had a link for you earlier.
          .
          ..

          Tom Hardy Shows Off His Rugged Hotness On Set Of New TV Series, ‘Taboo’

          The headline alone has my knickers wet.

          1. Nice. 28 photos of Hardy in a bulky poncho and still worth the clicks. I like him with short hair and beard.

            1. Yeah. I like the short hair/scruffy beard look. It tells me it’s intentional and he didn’t just wake up in a pile of garbage in an alley and come straight to the photo shoot.

              1. But he could. He could wake up in a pile of garbage and still be photo ready. He’s photo ready while lying in a pile of garbage.

                1. But he could. He could wake up in a pile of garbage and still be photo ready. He’s photo ready while lying in a pile of garbage.

                  You guys could be describing me.

                    1. pics?

                      Just close your eyes and imagine Tom Hardy waking up in a pile of garbage. But without the looks or talent.

                2. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. Although I’m now picturing him popping out of Oscar the Grouch’s trashcan at about this level of scruffiness and am amused by the thought.

    4. DiCaprio is no longer a twink, so I don’t know how to classify that.

    5. FTL: n a horse and sleeps naked in its carcass!

      “I think George Lucas gonna sue somebody!”
      -Chaka Luther King

      1. Sigh.

        Here’s the link:
        Not to be outdone, DiCaprio rips open a horse and sleeps naked in its carcass

  5. More and more performers are going to put him on their “won’t work with” lists. He’s going to end up in gay-for-pay to… ahem… make ends meet.

    1. There are recent rumblings that the gay porn houses are having trouble making a buck anymore.

      Link mildly NSFW

      1. Speaking of gay porn: I demand there be a gay porn parody of National Geographic Channel’s DIggers. It would be hilarious.

        1. National Geographic Channel’s DIggers is already a gay porn parody.

          1. Yes, but I want them to take it all the way. I want one of the dudes to bust a load in the other guy’s ass while shouting NECTARRRRR!!!

        2. Just be careful talking about that show when you have a severe cold…

      2. What’s not work-safe about gay porn?

        1. Not all of us work on a sex farm.

        2. Are shirtless dudes standing around porn now?

          1. That’s called ‘casual friday’ where I work.

            1. Where the well drinks are $2?

            2. Do you work in a gay steel mill?

              1. +1 “hot stuff comin’ throigh”

      3. Making a buck? IS THAT A EUPHEMISM FOR SOME SEX THING I SHOULD KNOW ABOUT?

        1. Says “Fist of Etiquette”.

    2. He’s going to end up in gay-for-pay to… ahem… make ends meet.

      1. Clever.

      2. I think I’ve read him quoted as saying he won’t do gay porn.

  6. Aurora Snow is a better writer than most of the professional journalists at that site.

    1. Yeah, I was surprised by that. UC Irvine, I believe.

  7. So at least 2 of the people making accusations against Deen are ex-girlfriends of his?

    BURN THE WITCH

    1. Maybe he did this, maybe he was just kind of an asshole. I think the lesson is, be careful when dating someone with a few thousand followers on their twitter account.

      Because if they tweet it, you could find yourself in the soup line.

      At this point all I can say is I hope Deen actually did these things because the alternative is pretty ugly.

    2. I’m reminded of this… http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files…..1403275986

    3. From Stoya’s Wikipedia page:

      In a June 2013 interview with The Huffington Post, Stoya revealed that her popularity as a porn star has made it difficult for her father to enjoy pornography

      1. Difficult, but not impossible?

      2. Oh, that reminds me. In the Deen GQ article, they follow him around set. Among the highlights:
        One of the male performers snaps a picture of a girl with his dick in her mouth, and then texts it to the girl’s mom.

        Fucking classy.

        1. It’s porn town, playa.

          Btw, why did the male porn actor have her mother’s number in his phone?

        2. Wait, it was Episiarch, never mind.

          1. You don’t understand my humor! You’ve never understood it!

            (slams bedroom door, starts playing The Ramones really loudly)

            1. TAKE OUT THE GARBAGE! I’M NOT TELLING YOU A THIRD TIME!

      3. her popularity as a porn star has made it difficult for her father to enjoy pornography

        Marginally related (but this is a blog that’s not strict about staying on topic, so what the hell): Alan Thicke Has Sex to Son Robin Thicke’s Music

      4. Been there, done that?

  8. It’s not unfamiliar territory when it comes to porn; folks have long worried that the genre will warp the sexual expectations of those who watch it. And outside of the porn world, we see similar arguments all the time: violent video games lead to mass shootings, rap music leads to gun violence, BDSM erotica leads women into abusive relationships, etc.

    I remember when Steve Austin was convicted of domestic abuse. It warped my perceptions about sports entertainment forever. To this day I have to stop and ask myself if I’ve lost my sense of self before I hit someone with a folding chair.

    1. There is a lot of incest-related pornography, which has to be why there is so much incest.

    2. Nothing can top the Chris Benoit case for warping perceptions about an industry.

  9. The uniqueness of the accusations pretty clearly demonstrates their rarity. If his behavior were common, we would have heard endless horror stories from female porn performers.

    1. The fact that we don’t hear an endless recitation of these stories demonstrates not only how universal they are but also how easily the patriarchy keeps victims in check.

      Unfalsifiability is fun!

  10. Semi- (well, mostly) OT: last night I became aware of a feature titled Black Cocks Matter, with the tagline “Black cocks are politically erect!!!”

    Brilliant.

    1. And I’m sure you found this out while looking up poultry futures for next quarter.

      1. Pork futures.

    2. One day I asked my husband to go get some black caulk for me.

      It didn’t go down well.

  11. So, what does a guy who’s spent the last 11 years having as much sex as a human can do when he’s lost his job having sex?
    How do you handle going cold turkey when you’ve worked yourself up to 50 packs a day?

    1. Gay porn. They aren’t going to care how he treats women.

      1. The affable, just-better-than-average-man shtick that makes him interesting as a straight male porn star is already thoroughly covered in gay porn. He’d be a novelty figure for a while, but probably not a breakout star.

    2. He’s not going to “lose his job” over this. Lose a lot of opportunities, yes. Stop being hired, no. There will be actresses who don’t believe the stories, actresses who do and don’t care, and actresses who care but will do it for the money anyway. Hell, Mike Tyson went to *prison* for rape and Hollywood will still cast him in wacky comedies — it doesn’t stretch the imagination to think that a guy accused of rape can still find work in an industry that employs a lot of actual ex-cons.

  12. I am guessing that ENB won’t agree, but porn star = child abuse victim. There may be some exceptions, but I stand by this truth.

    That doesn’t mean that being a porn star is an illegitimate way to make a living. It just means that the people who do the performing are most likely not coming from a happy place. Deen could be the scumbag as he is accused of being, or these women could see/feel victimization where there is none. Or maybe the truth is a combination of the two. Who knows?

    1. Read the GQ article on Deen.

    2. There may be some exceptions, but I stand by this truth.

      You are talking out your ass. There are enough exceptions to swallow your rule.

        1. No pun was intended.

          I mean, it’s beyond dispute that damaged, unhappy abuse survivors sometimes find their way into porn. But there are any number of adult performers who aren’t abuse survivors, nor are particularly damaged or unhappy, who got into porn as a way to make money, or simply because they wanted to. Charlotte’s generalization is asinine.

          1. If I recall a rare segment from the Howard Stern show (televised), they asked a porn star on the show about her childhood. She had an awful, abusive one.

            According to stern and his crew, she was the FIRST porn star on the show to claim an abusive childhood. Apparently up until that moment, 100% had claimed perfectly normal home lives. Make of that what you will.

            1. I’ve listen to shitloads of Howard Stern and he used to consistently try and get porn stars to tell him salacious stuff about their childhood/teenage years. Most of them answered “Howard, I was pretty damn normal” or similar statements.

              Howard Stern, leading fellow in porn star research.

              1. “I lied like a rug,” Jenna Jameson wrote in her book, How to Make Love Like a Porn Star, of her own appearance on Stern’s show. “I didn’t want anyone to think that I was in the business because I was a victim.”

            2. I don’t know the percentages, but a number of porn stars have said they were abused as children: Jenna Jameson and Traci Lords come to mind.

              1. Yeah, Jenna’s childhood appears to have been particularly shitty. It’s interesting too, because she portrays her dad as this on-the-stick badass, but apparently he couldn’t even provide his own daughter with a stable upbringing.

          2. BS. Simply put, how do you know? Think about it. What normal woman would do porn? What normal man? You might want to think they are empowered. More likely their uncle banged them when they were 14.

            1. You sound like you’re coming from a position of experience. Anything you want to get off your chest?

              1. Or she’s just an idiot.

                1. “Because someone else has a different perspective from my own on sex and porn it must mean they’re sickos or victims.”

                  Very tolerant.

                  1. Nope, just the truth. Nothing wrong with porn, it’s just that the actors are damaged.

                2. I am a guy, kid.

              2. Something sticky and cum-scented…

              3. Sure. You are in denial. Keep wacking, just know that your favorites are doing it because daddy abused them at nine.

                1. I think we’re finding out way more about your personal fantasies than anyone else’s here, broheim.

                  1. Wow, you figured me out. You must be at a much higher plain of existence with all the well-adjusted porn stars and sex workers. How can I learn from you?

                    Sorry if I hit a nerve. I didn’t realize that something this obviously true was so angering to some on this board.

                    1. That’s funny, no one seems angry except for you.

                    2. Okay defensive. Whatever you call it, a simple opinion got a large reaction.

                2. Or take the word of some rando bullshitter who seems weirdly preoccupied with a moral stance for which s/he’s unwilling to provide any credible evidence. At least buttplug offers (cherrypicked, out of context) numbers for his claims.

                  1. It’s not a moral stance. It is an observation about reality.

                    1. It is an observation about reality.

                      Except it’s not. Until you provide data it’s bull shit.

                    2. Provide data to disprove my statement. Oh you can’t. Well that means your statement is bull shit.

            2. ” What normal woman would do porn? What normal man?”

              Yeah, what normal man would want to bang hot women and get paid for it?

              1. Yeah, what normal man would want to bang hot women and get paid for it?

                Actually, from what I’ve read being a male porn star isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. A lot of them end up doing gay porn to make ends meet, and it’s hard to get an “in” to the industry unless your girlfriend happens to be involved and will only do guy-girl scenes with you. Shoots are incredibly awkward because there’s lights and camera guys everywhere, which often creates performance anxiety, and you also tend to get paid a LOT less than the women. Not to mention the constant risk of STDs and the fact that the “hotness” factor is typically due more to the power of modern cosmetics than any natural beauty these women possess.

            3. BS. Simply put, how do you know?

              Through a mysterious process known as, “Listening to what the people in question actually say.”

              You might want to try it sometime, rather than imagining your gut intuition as some kind of unimpeachable oracle.

              1. In other words, anecdotes. Not very scientific.

    3. I am guessing that ENB won’t agree, but porn star = child abuse victim. There may be some exceptions, but I stand by this truth.

      What movies have you done? Asking for a friend.

    4. Let’s hear it for unsupported claims and idle speculation.

      1. No problem. I consulted common sense and came out with the obvious answer. Give it a shot.

        Here’s more breaking news for you:
        – “Trans-gendered” people are all mentally ill.
        – Prostitutes are drug addicts and/or survivors of sexual abuse.
        – We are all either male or female

        Am I going to lose my Reason subscription?

        1. Am I going to lose my Reason subscription?

          Hey, it’s your money to waste – I’m sure they’re perfectly happy to take money from collectivists.

          1. Far from it. My libertarian bona fides are as strong as anyone who reads or writes the magazine. I have been a subscriber for almost two decades.

            BTW, Libertarian libertine. All behaviors should be legal as long as they don’t infringe on the rights of others. That doesn’t mean all behaviors are good or constructive.

        2. Trans-gendered people are all mentally ill. As are folks with ADD.

          The only currently known treatment for trans folks is surgical alteration of their bodies to fit what their brains are telling them. Hopefully in the future we’ll find a less physically and mentally traumatic treatment.

          1. If someone cut off their leg because they identified as a three-limbed person, would you say such a behavior was normal?

            1. Where did I say anything about normal?

          2. Illocust: “Trans-gendered people are all mentally ill.”

            Theoretically, it could be a physical illness. When two parts – mind and body (or pieces of a puzzle) – don’t match, how do tell which part is the wrong, and which part is the right one?

        3. Wait, which recurring troll are you? I’m just gonna assume Tulpa because it’s usually a safe bet. Maybe Tulpa caricaturing a yokel? Is that too meta?

          1. It’s definitely got a Tulpical whiff to it.

          2. Does kind of seem like a Tulpa name. I think I’ve seen it before.

          3. he’s claiming to be more libertarian than any of us so……

            1. As strong as, not more so.

            2. Some sort of Hihn-Tulpa hybrid?

              1. I’ve been saying for years growing hybridized/GMO trolls could only end badly.

          4. I smell Tulpa too.

        4. No problem. I consulted common sense and came out with the obvious answer. Give it a shot.

          The amusing thing is that you don’t seem to realize you just admitted your whole process for learning the truth consists of assuming you already know it.

          1. What’s your approach? Are you claiming that you form no opinions until you’ve “reviewed all the facts” and “seen the data”?

            If so, I claim bullshit. Most people come to their opinions based on pre-conceived ideas of what is the truth. Very few things in reality can be observed and known for a fact. For example, has racism increased or decreased in America? What is racism? How do we know it exists? How do we know there is more or less now than in the past? How would we measure it?

            The truth is that I can’t prove my assertion. Neither can you disprove it. No such data or evidence exists to do either. So in the end it comes down to one’s view of “common sense”. You think that women who does anal orgies on camera are sane, I say they have emotional issues that lead them to that behavior.

    5. I am guessing that ENB won’t agree, but porn star = child abuse victim. There may be some exceptions, but I stand by this truth.

      “Standing by” an idiotic statement is seldom a good idea.

      1. Idiotic? How so?

        1. Because it is (a) objectively false, (b) a sweeping generalization, (c) demeaning to the performers in question, (d) a hackneyed cliche, (e) all of the above.

          Take your pick.

          1. How is is objectively false? Where’s your evidence?

            A lot of sweeping generalizations are true.

            Agree on demeaning. Not my intention, but the truth is sometimes hurtful.

            Cliches are not wrong by definition.

    6. If we’re to believe Boogie Nights then we know that all porn performers have low IQ’s. Seems legit.

      1. I haven’t known porn performers, but if the strippers I’ve met are any indication….the depictions in Boogie Nights were generous

        1. This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Every stripper I ever met was working her way through college. And it takes a lot of smarts to juggle an education and a career at the same time.

          1. What about “jiggling an education”.

          2. Every stripper I ever met was working her way through college

            Yeah, same here–until you actually start talking to them and find out its usually cosmotology or fashion school or something similar. Most of them aren’t exactly closet academics who don’t mind showing their tits to total strangers.

  13. I think a person should repress their shameful fantasies. I mean, how could that possibly go wrong?

    1. I think there’s plenty of evidence to support the notion that living out your shameful fantasies isn’t intrinsically the better option.

      1. Doesn’t the Middle East prove you wrong?

        1. You really think none of the ISIS guys aren’t living out their fantasy of being Jihad warriors? I’m not arguing for repression here, but just because it’s a fantasy doesn’t mean its a good thing.

          1. I’m not arguing for repression here, but just because it’s a fantasy doesn’t mean its a good thing.

            +shameful

            If everyone around you thinks your fantasy is a bad idea and, to the extent that you experience shame as a result, I’m inclined to think, at least some of the time, your fantasy isn’t a good idea.

          2. I’d assume he’s referring more to people who are obsessed with destroying the thing in other people’s lives that they’re trying to repress in their own. Wasn’t there a whole thing recently about how sex obsessed one of the ISIS statements of intent was? Can’t you just imagine some jihaddi rubbing one out while he writes about how awful westerners are for licking bacon-flavored whipped cream off of each others’ nipples which is just blatantly not halal?

          3. Time for me to take off my Juggler skirt and put on my Barbara Streisand in the Prince Of Tides ass-masking therapist pantsuit. I am generalizing, but the men in that region, and I would assume many in that religion, repress their sexuality, and their repression is partially responsible for their destructive actions.

            1. their repression is partially responsible for their destructive actions.

              Well, if they were getting laid occasionally they might be less energetic and more relaxed.

              1. Yes. And, if they were not so worried about whatever their fantasies are, or ashamed of being gay, or whatever else, they would be less prone to suicide bombing, or joining in the ISIS rape rooms, etc.

                But I could be wrong.

        2. My fantasies often include the painful killing of agents of the State. Fortunately, I was taught as a child that I wasn’t supposed to act upon every desire I had the moment I had it.

          1. If you are planning something it is Murder 1.

          2. I’m sorry to hear about this abuse during your childhood. Tell me, how lucrative was your subsequent porn career? Will you sign my boobs?

        3. I think the problem there is that they consider most fantasies shameful. Very little that can be done among consenting adults should really be considered shameful.

            1. Wait. You mean to tell me, when two people have sex is ISN’T about me?

              1. I promise I will start thinking about you while I have sex.

  14. I don’t know whether any of these people are telling the truth. But I do know that litigating this on social media, as opposed to swearing out a complaint to the police, is the opposite of a good idea.

    1. If you can’t prosecute in a court of law, persecute in the court of public opinion. Maybe Deen deserves it, I have no idea. But public shaming crusades are not a banner on ever interested in taking up.

  15. I actually saw The Canyons. That movie was an idiot.

    1. Bret Easton Ellis and Paul Schrader used to be respected, too.

      1. Have any of you read Ellis’s recent writings? He’s been doing interviews somewhere and I can’t remember.

        Anyway, they’re absolutely fantastic.

    2. How can a movie be an idiot, you idiot?

      1. You’re poorly scripted and edited, you box office bomb.

        1. I think you meant bombshell.
          /bats eyelashes

          1. GET A ROOM

            1. WELL IF YOU’D HURRY UP IN THERE

              1. YOUR MOM TAKES TIME DUDE SHE’S COMPLICATED

                1. Stop being gross, you two.

                  Right. Now ask the sun to stop being hot, the rain to stop being wet, and Epi’s mom to stop.. never mind.

                  1. She never stops, which is why I still keep her around.

      2. How can a movie be an idiot, you idiot

        By starring Lindsey Lohan?

  16. Wasn’t Deen calling porn actresses out for managing their image by starting vanilla and moving to racial porn later in their career? Wonder if these two things have anything to do with one another.

    Got to say though, the porn actress has more credibility in her rape claim than most the SJW campus biddies that normal get trotted out. She has a legitimate reason to believe going to police is pointless and will only result in her being black balled. Her story includes the word “No” and not backing down (no I said yes and actively participated but he should have seen in my eyes, bull crap). Also, everything’s fairly simplistic and quick. Not a lot of fantastical details that tend to point towards embellishment or outright lies. Plus, porn star we already know she has a real world understanding of what consent is and isn’t scared of people finding out she has sex.

    Not enough to convict or socially punish him (it’s still only their word vs his), but enough that I wouldn’t want to be alone with him.

    1. As I alluded to above, if he actually did this, I’d say he’s getting about all the justice one could expect given the veracity of the claim. But if he didn’t, he’s getting hammered with a pretty good injustice.

  17. Now, obviously it takes two to tango, and someone has to do. Also, SLD:

    I do look at guys who are into rape fantasy (not bdsm, which is different- kink in their videos will show performers discussing safe words sometimes) differently than chicks. In eithed case it is a bit weird, but with a dude I get a litte skeeved out at the consumers of that shit who are male.

    Now performmers are one thing- I think especially as a male porn star you are happy for work. But yeah, consumers… I judge in general, and a bit more for dudes tbh

    1. It’s just a power fantasy viewed through another lens for most people. Kind of like being Conan and rescuing the princess or being the princess rescued. Just like most people don’t actually want to take a sword and chop someone in half with all the blood and guts and traumatic emotions there of, most people into rape fantasy don’t want actual rape.

      1. He’s just stating his opinion, with which I happen to agree.

        Which do you find creepier? Girls who fantasize about getting raped, or dudes who fantasize about raping?

        1. A dude fantasizing about raping is obviously creepier. Fantasizing about being raped just doesn’t make sense to me. It’s obviously not genuinely non-consensual.

        2. Having fantasized about both sides of the equation, I don’t find either creepy. The inclination has root causes that can create the fantasy, but the fantasy does not cause the inclination.

          1. On the fantasizing about raping side, I think it depends on whether you are fantasizing about actual rape or pretend rape. Whereas on the being raped side, it’s logically impossible to want to be raped so there’s no question about that just being a fantasy.

            1. SF needs no ideas, people.

            2. Consider this study by Bivona and Critelli (2012): Women’s Rape Fantasies: An Empirical Evaluation of the Major Explanations: http://tinyurl.com/h7r7z7z (“Sexual blame avoidance theory was not supported; sexual desirability theory was moderately supported; openness to sexual experience theory received the strongest support.” No ultimate explanation. Evolutionary reasons plausible.); her earlier dissertation (mostly about prevalence, if I remember correctly) can be freely accessed: http://tinyurl.com/gtucy67 (“Results indicated that 62% of women have had a rape fantasy, which is somewhat higher than previous estimates. … In contrast to previous research, which suggested that rape fantasies were either entirely aversive or entirely erotic, rape fantasies were found to exist on an erotic-aversive continuum, with 9% completely aversive, 45% completely erotic, and 46% both erotic and aversive.”)

              That continuum is interesting. I think these women are ambiguous, in inner conflict. Which it would mean it’s possible to want to be raped. Think of a cake and dieting; intellectually and emotionally you don’t want to eat it, but you still do.

        3. So the choice is between Taggert and the Number Six dance or Mattress Girl?

          Mattress Girl is creepier by a mile.

        4. You left out the third option, men who fantasize about being raped [by wimmenz].

        5. Which do you find creepier? Girls who fantasize about getting raped, or dudes who fantasize about raping?

          All the time you spend around here and this is where you’re ‘creepy fantasy’ meter starts ticking?

          1. My ‘creepy fantasy’ meter starts licking. And it gets more interesting from there.

        6. Which do you find creepier? Girls who fantasize about getting raped, or dudes who fantasize about raping?

          In my experience it is very, very important not to know what other people fantasize about. Everyone’s creepy about something or other.

          1. True. Nonetheless women are (1) prettier, and (2) purer, more innocent, and softer. It’s difficult to find them as disgusting as men. Their background and nature elevates them.

  18. Man, the drudge headline on this whole thing was a huge disappointment. I was expecting to find some interracial Paula Deen porno where Long Dong Silver slaps her in the face with his wiener that had been recovered by TMZ.

    That would have been the greatest thing ever (that I refused to watch).

    1. That would have been the greatest thing ever (that I refused to watch).

      mmhmmm.

      *someone* has a fantasy…

      1. That would have been the greatest thing ever (that I refused to watch burnt up my browser searching for).

    2. You’d want to know where to find the video so you can stay away from it, right?

      1. No one wants to be porn-rolled with Paula Deen.

          1. Rule 34 says otherwise.

      2. Exactly!

        Well, that and because it’s just the perfect anonymous gift for a Secret Santa.

        1. Buy it with a birthday card, the cashier will understand. Sure.

          1. And a bottle of hand lotion?

  19. The whole rape fantasy topic came up in conversation the other night.

    Which 80’s movie event was most unrealistic:
    1: the crowd reaction when Scott turns into Teen Wolf for the first time during the basketball game
    2: Betty Childs’s reaction in the moon room in Revenge Of The Nerds
    3: Everything about Joshua in WarGames

    1. 4). Jennifer Beals portraying a welder in Flashdance.

      1. 5) Tom Cruise banging Kelly McGillis in Top Gun.
        6) Tom Cruise not banging Val Kilmer in Top Gun.

          1. Shit, that one came up too. How did the cops not know where the gang hideout was in Police Academy? They had the fucking entrance all spray painted and armed security manning it.

      2. 4). Jennifer Beals portraying a welder in Flashdance.

        Fucking sexist.

    2. I never understood as a kid just how fucked up a movie Revenge of the Nerds is.

      1. It’s a great film!!! *Runs away sobbing*

  20. And Joanna Angel, who dated Deen from 2004-2010, on Sunday tweeted “You have my support @stoya. I’m here for you. This was followed by a tweet calling Deen “dead on the inside.”

    “He’s literally the worst person I’ve ever met,” wrote Angel. “That’s all I’ll say for now.”

    So, this guy was awful, terrible, mean and abusive. And you dated him for six years. Why do I detect the pungent aroma of bovine fecal matter?

    1. meh. She wouldn’t be the first woman to stay in a relationship with an abusive asshole for far too long.

      1. I once watched an interview with a man who was dating a porn actress. Now he looked dead on the inside while he struggled to explain why he doesn’t mind his girlfriend’s avocation.

        1. I dated a porn actress for a while. She pretended to like sex. She did all her acting for me. It didn’t work out. She couldn’t keep up the pretext.

          1. A for effort!

  21. I disagree with the authors contention that there is no significant connection between ‘rough’ porn use and subsequent behavior. Researchers have put men in a room and shown them ‘regular’ porn, and then determined that the subject’s attitudes toward women were worsened. It is certainly reasonable to think that rough porn would have at least as negative an impact.

    1. My college GF put me in a room and made me watch ‘Dirty Dancing’ and I became a misogynist.

      What’s your point?

      1. If she’d made you watch Room With a View you’d have become a rapist.

    2. Researchers have also found that regular viewing of porn correlates to improved attitudes towards women.

      The lesson to take from this isn’t “porn is good” or “porn is bad”, but “the social sciences aren’t terribly scientific”.

    3. The skyrocketing rates of sexual assault since pornography became ubiquitous and highly tailored seem to bear this out.

      Wait… that’s entirely backward.

      1. ^ This. The drop in rape and sexual assault at the same time porn has become completely ubiquitous stands as a complete refutation of the porn = rape theory. I’m amazed that people are still pushing this line.

        1. Just to be clear, the literature (what I know of it) does not unambiguously suggest that porn has a palliative effect on rapists etc. Personally, I think that cultural openness about sexuality has done a lot to normalize the creeps who previously would have been subway gropers or campus flashers, but due to feeling less marginalized aren’t willing to risk becoming social pariahs. In that case porn and falling assault rates would both be symptoms of a culture shift.

          But suggesting that pornography is detrimental despite falling assault rates really only doubles up the burden of proof.

        2. I suspect that the people convinced that Porn = TEH EVULS — social conservatives and so-called “feminists” — are for the most part also convinced that we’re in the middle of a crime epidemic. Certainly plenty of high-profile feminists are pushing the myth of a rape epidemic, and I’ve lost count of the number of SoCons I’ve seen arguing that a decline in morals and/or respect for authority has led to a (nonexistent) wave of rapes, robberies and murders.

          1. Second-wave is anti-porn (characterized by Dworkin), but modern feminists up until the past few years have been by and large pro-porn as a source of female empowerment. In addition to the usual screeds about how oral sex is empowering for women, female porn stars make much more money than men (markets, what are they good for?) and they have had follow-up careers as directors and producers frequently.

            It’s a grey area on both the porn and feminism counts. Feminism can range from Dworkin-style crusaders to porn-empowers activists, and porn can range from misogynistic material with real humiliation, slapping, and crying to old-fashioned stuff like Deep Throat. The social impact is analogous to that of alcohol in that sexuality in media is too broad a category of entertainment and human psychology to have a singular positive or negative impact.

    4. Describe that “bad attitude”.

    5. Yeah, but the “researchers” were social ‘scientists’. The social ‘sciences’ deal with a great deal of subjectivity, lack rigor, and often will confidently reach unreasonable conclusions (‘Because these people said that rapists should be in prison for a billion years before being shown porn, and then after being shown porn said that rapists should be in prison for a billion-1 years, porn obviously makes people callous towards women!’) when there are alternate explanations they’ve yet to disprove. Sorry, but the studies you’re talking about are almost certainly garbage. I’ve read a few of them myself, and their quality is as you would expect from the social sciences.

      Not only that, but you’re probably talking about one or a few studies, and not overwhelming scientific consensus.

      Anyone who trusts the social pseudoscientists is a fool.

  22. I’m a trans trans who likes lesbian sex. Should I be concerned?

    1. Just to be clear – I’m a man who identifies as a woman who identifies as a man. I like sex with women. In fact I’m so much of a lesbian that I only date women.

  23. With some interpretations of Yes Means Yes, any scene that *looks* like rape *is* rape.

    Consent is required verbally, continually and enthusiastically. Kind of a problem for oral. Or ball gags.

    Who was the nutty gal who carried around a mattress and made her own little rape porn? By the standards many favor she was guilty of conspiracy to rape herself.

    1. Who was the nutty gal who carried around a mattress

      The girl who carried around her mattress is known as “Mattress Girl.”

      Glad I could help!

  24. Lets roll with it dude.

    http://www.GoneAnon.tk

  25. “And if Deen really did play up his nice-guy, feminist image while simultaneously abusing multiple women, that would seem to be the behavior of a sociopath, not someone simply confused about sexual boundaries because of porn. ”

    More interesting are the people who wanted to believe that he is a “feminist”. That includes, but is not limited to, those who think that sex and social life are separate domains, with different individuals inhabiting them. Someone’s sexual “persona” is not isolated from his social being. Sexual dominance or submissiveness are not isolated from a person’s general psychology, that is: general personality. Not to mention that a person’s sexual attraction and behavior are a constant of his social life, present throughout the day, to whatever degree.

  26. I don’t understand what the purpose of this essay is or even what you are trying to say. What’s interesting about the James Deen debacle is that many people apparently thought he was a “feminist” even though he obviously wasn’t, and thought he was some type of expert on sex, competent to give advice, because he was a porn star, when porn traffics in fantasy not reality. What fools. As for the notion that watching rape porn has no affect on people, I find that hard to believe. Most probably it has a conditioning effect like all stimuli do. You should be wary of surveys that claim scientific results when they are based on self-reporting; self-reporting is unreliable because people generally tell surveyors what they want the surveyors to believe, rather than the truth.

    Anyone who chooses a job in which he enacts “pretend” rape scenarios all day is very likely a rapist and I have been ROFL at the politically correct fools who couldn’t figure this out because they are so afraid of criticizing BDSM and porn.

    1. “Anyone who chooses a job in which he enacts “pretend” rape scenarios all day is very likely a rapist and I have been ROFL at the politically correct fools who couldn’t figure this out because they are so afraid of criticizing BDSM and porn.”

      “All day”. One in four scenes, or something. Don’t know how many days he works, nor how many hours per day. As for conditioning effects, we behave non-violently so often that this is the dramatically prevalent and continuously reinforced conditioning. Your theory of conditioning has to incorporate that. When you delineate steps, from public interactions, to fantasy (imagination, reading, intellectual reflection, etc.), to sexual fantasy, to enaction of sexual fantasy (movies, porn), to private sex, you have to outline how conditioning flows through them.

      I agree with you that there generally is no perfect compartmentalization of character traits, that there are no isolated split personalities. But to claim that all of these realms merge and that it’s precisely violent fantasy that rules in the end is not enough.

      By the way, you understand the essay. You simply disagree.

      P.S.:

      “self-reporting is unreliable because people generally tell surveyors what they want the surveyors to believe, rather than the truth” Who reported that?

    2. As for the notion that watching rape porn has no affect on people, I find that hard to believe.

      What you find hard to believe is irrelevant. And no one says it has no effect on people. Quite the contrary: It makes some people sexually aroused.

      Oh, you were probably referring to some sort of significant negative impact, right? The idea that mere pixels or what have you can have significant negative effects on you is pure silliness. What you choose to do is your own fault; it can’t be blamed on anyone but yourself. Blaming violent video games, porn, etc. is just a way to escape personal responsibility. Anyone who would be ‘set off’ by such things was insane to begin with, and it wasn’t really a product of the content itself.

      Most probably it has a conditioning effect like all stimuli do.

      If you’re dumb enough to believe that people can’t tell reality from fiction, or that it has any significant impact on people, then you’re just hopeless.

      You should be wary of surveys that claim scientific results when they are based on self-reporting

      You should be wary of all social ‘science’ garbage.

    3. Anyone who chooses a job in which he enacts “pretend” rape scenarios all day is very likely a rapist

      How so? Real rape harms real people significantly. Fake rape doesn’t. For this reason, it’s entirely possible for a person to want to engage in pretend rape but not real rape. I see no reason to reach the conclusion that someone who frequently engages in pretend rape is “likely” to be a real rapist.

      and I have been ROFL at the politically correct fools

      Since when is it politically correct to give the appearance of defending pretend rape pornography? Your position seems more PC, and as is usually the case with political correctness, it’s based on emotion and ignorance.

  27. Yeah, I am taking this as a poor attempt as satire.

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