Capitalism Is Good and Bernienomics Doesn't Work

Also, who will be the last American to die for the mistake of staying in Afghanistan?

On Saturday I appeared on MSNBC's Melissa-Harris Perry show for a wide-ranging discussion on capitalism, democratic socialism, Denmark, the Democratic presidential field, and Afghanistan. Some clips:

Is capitalism good for America?

The difference between Denmark and the US

Afghanistan decision rewrites Obama's foreign policy legacy

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

WARNING: Clicking on those seemingly embedded videos actually sends you to MSNBC. You're actually giving clicks to MSNBC.

Also, I watched this already when it was on, so I don't know why Welch is even posting these.

[Bern-o-Matic 5000]

WELCH, YOU BASTARD!!!!

[Mazakon]

Also, I watched this already when it was on, so I don't know why Welch is even posting these.

It's the same thing with Trump, the Reason staff know the commenters want more.

[Sevo]

Transcripts, please. Don't do vids; requires wading through too much BS to find anything interesting.

[Shirley Knott]

Amen!!

[brokencycle]

How can anyone stand to listen to either Bernie or Harris?

[Crusty Juggler]

Why didn't Bob Marley like canals?

Because he dread locks!

[RBS]

How do you stop a clown from smiling?

Hit him in the face with an ax.

[Paul.]

*quietly judging*

[Swiss Servator]

*loudly narrowing gaze*

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

I read that as

*quietly juggling*

and then idly wondered what the Insane Clown Posse followers had to do with this.

[Michael Price]

I read it as that too and the ICP and it's followers are behind everything, the Illuminati are just a front.

[RBS]

Matt is worse than ENB, with his links to MSNBC and all.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

He probably got paid by MSNBC, too!

(The cocktails don't count.)

[RBS]

RAGE!!! Shits pants.

/whichever Hit and Runpublican was responsible

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

I think it was our lovely Corning.

[Matt Welch]

Untrue.

[RBS]

So, cocktails do count.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

And it lost me with MHP's skeptical face with the words CAPITALISM? behind her.

[GILMORE?]

really.

That image basically tells you everything you need to know about the chest-deep levels of bullshit that you're about to subject yourself to.

[RBS]

I think the last time I watched anything on MSNBC was during the 2012 Olympics while feeding my then newborn son.

[GILMORE?]

Which i am actually watching.

mouth-vomiting moment #1 @5:00 = when the first question is, "What *is* this capitalism stuff, exactly?" (as though its such a crazy and foreign concept)

and when Jeff Miron provides a very reasonable single-sentence answer...

(*saying that Capitalism is primarily about allowing companies to enter and exit markets without aid or interference by the government, neither unfairly taxing some or subsidizing others or trying to "create winners or losers" and letting the market allocate resources to get a productive economy...)

....MHP feels the need to completely ignore what he just said and re-direct everything into a mish-mash about how capitalism neglects "individuals" and how "things aren't working that way they should"....

And she does the same thing with Matt, when he points out that Capitalism has cut poverty in half in the developing world in the last 3 decades... she again dismisses the point entirely and re-directs it into.... "sputter sputter BUT INEQUALITY".... WHY ARE THERE NO FEELINGS IN YOUR CAPITALISM??

What's the point of bringing people like Matt or Miron if the only point is to give them their 2 second speil, then lecture the audience about why that's just not the point at all. Its not "debate" because they never even bother to address the points about economic efficiency or global economic prosperity and what has driven it.

blah blah blah CEO Pay...blah blah blah middle class stagnant wages... GRRR WHY NO FREE STUFF.

[pan fried wylie]

formulaic like chemistry, yo.

[RBS]

Speaking of Bernie, is "Feel the Bern" really the best slogan for a guy who claims to be a national socialist?

[brady949]

Democratic Socialist...claiming to be a national socialist would have a different meaning entirely...

[IceTrey]

There goes the Jew money.

[gaoxiaen]

-1 Reichstag building

[Citizen X]

He's honest about his beliefs, and you can catch glimpses of where said beliefs inevitably lead if you're paying attention.

[IceTrey]

I think you mean "democratic socialist" or do you?

[Citizen X]

Well, he IS a nationalist...

[RBS]

I was just making a joke at his expense.

[IceTrey]

Poe's law. You have to put a winky face or /jk.

[RBS]

Look, I just listened to a client opine about this thing for an hour while keeping a straight face.

[pan fried wylie]

"Decision-Support Technology"

That alone made it worth the click.

[GILMORE?]

Galvanic skin response?

isn't that the same bullshit that "Lie detectors" measure?

[Sevo]

"Look, I just listened to a client opine about this thing for an hour while keeping a straight face."

When I was dealing with clients who had such products to move, I did have the luxury of suggesting someone else in the company was 'probably a better fit'.
And G, yes. Same BS.

[gaoxiaen]

Maybe that could be Biden's way of getting the gay vote.

[Marshal]

If there's no tampon dangling earrings it's not worth watching.

[Paul.]

If Rita Wong, I don't wanna be Wight.

[GILMORE?]

You are infringing on my copyrighted joke here. Expect a letter from my lawyers.

e.g.
Q: What did the trans-racial man who wanted to change from Caucasian to Chinese say?

A: "If this is how it feels to be Wong, I don't wanna be White"

*i like the punchline to be linked to the associated soundtrack

[Paul.]

Ok, Carlos Mencia, whatever you say.

[GILMORE?]

i hope you aren't suggesting that race-trolling beaner beat me to the same joke.

[John]

I am sure all dozen or so MHP viewers found Matt's points incomprehensible. A few of them likely turned their heads to the side as the wondered what that crazy white man was talking about.

[Paul.]

Video won't play in my browser(s), so I can't watch.

side as the wondered what that crazy white man was talking about.

Isn't the MSNBC audience the whitest one around?

[John]

Yes. All of the viewers were white but they are not "white white". They are white in like an ironic kind of way. They are not real white people. They are not all racists and stuff and understand the struggles of the brown people.

[Zeb]

Yes, but they can still recognize a crazy white man.

[GILMORE?]

I suspect MSNBC serves guests juice boxes and granola bars

[GILMORE?]

lol sorry that was supposed to be a comment on the "Cocktails" payola

[Paul.]

And yet it worked as a reply to my comment. Well played, sir, well played.

[Aloysious]

Matt, I love ya, but I'm not watching MHP or that wretched network.

I'm going to go dig fence posts out of the ground.

[CatoTheChipper]

Before defining "capitalism", Miron should have first explained that the US does not have a capitalist economy, that it is instead properly classified as a mixed economy by economists of all camps. He should explain that, in a mixed economy, the State owns the means of production for certain goods and services and that private enterprises own the means of production of other goods and services subject to lesser or greater degrees of regulation by the State. Examples of socialized goods and services include those provided by the military, the police, public education, the post office, and the Federal Reserve banking system. Examples of heavily regulated, but privately owned, companies include those in the banking system, big pharma, the insurance industry, the cable, broadcast, and telephone industries. Examples of relatively lightly regulated industries include tech companies, internet startups, retailers, grocers, restaurants, and a plethora of service companies -- outfits like Apple, Uber, Amazon, Whole Foods -- and an endless list of competitive and complementary firms -- and a tremendous array of restaurants that cater to every palate and budget, as well as the arborist who trims your trees or the stylist who cuts your hair.

This is necessary because the typical MSNBC viewer thinks that the US has the purest form of capitalism imaginable, and that is cause of all the trouble in world.

[Paul.]

Examples of heavily regulated, but privately owned, companies include those in the banking system, big pharma, the insurance industry, the cable, broadcast, and telephone industries.

Nitpick: You forgot healthcare. One of the most regulated industries in America.

[Deckard]

That would be great but it's not something the MSNBC proud wants to hear, so they will just block it out.

Too many words and none of them are FAIRNESS or EQUALITY.

[Deckard]

*crowd

jesus

[Alice Bowie]

Nobody says Capitalism is Bad.

Bernie Sanders and other progressives (like me I guess) are saying that allowing the very few to owner 95% or the existence of Walmarts or large companies of the like that put practically all Mom/Pop shops out of the Capitalist participation IS NOT GOOD, regardless of what it is called.

Let's Keep Capitalism and FIATcurrency and the Free Market. By far, this has been the best economic system for Humans.

But let's allow for many businesses and let's make it more accessible for people to start up their own businesses by establishing basic safety nets like public pension, healthcare, and available public housing if needed. Make it so that a businessman need only to pay a salary to their employees and not worry about pension/healthcare/unemployment/etc.

[Paul.]

Bernie Sanders and other progressives (like me I guess) are saying that allowing the very few to owner 95% or the existence of Walmarts or large companies of the like that put practically all Mom/Pop shops out of the Capitalist participation IS NOT GOOD, regardless of what it is called.

That's not Capitalism, that's protectionism and government-controlled walled gardens at work.

When Seattle passed the minimum wage, it was done EXPRESSLY because local progressives knew that large chains would be able to absorb the higher wage. Those that can't: the small mom/pop shops cannot. And the progressives literally didn't care.

The crazy right-wing let-it-all-hang-out free speech loving, gay marriage supportin' libertarians? We were the only ones who stood up for the mom-and-pops.

[OldMexican]

Re: Alice Bowie,

Nobody says Capitalism is Bad.

Just the Pope, Bernie and a few million Marxians in the Media and Academia. Not much.

But let's allow for many businesses and let's make it more accessible for people to start up their own businesses by establishing basic safety nets like public pension, healthcare, and available public housing if needed.

Making it more accessible for people to start up their own business does not translate to safety nets, AB. Just getting rid of licensing laws and finance laws would generate an unleashing of capital the size of which not even God has seen, Muad'dib.

[Hyperbolical (wadair)]

Bernie Sanders and other progressives (like me I guess) are saying that allowing the very few to owner 95% or the existence of Walmarts or large companies of the like that put practically all Mom/Pop shops out of the Capitalist participation IS NOT GOOD, regardless of what it is called.

You say that "Nobody says Capitalism is Bad" but then complain about the very benefits of capitalism. That 95% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the population has little to no effect on the amount of wealth that the 99% are able to gain in a free market economy because the pie can grow to accommodate as much total wealth as people are able to innovate into existence. I think that "progressives like [you]" are just jealous and want to take that wealth for yourselves and that that is why you complain about it so often and so loudly. If you really believed in capitalism--as you claim--then you would be happy that those 1% have been successful and go out and try some of it yourself instead of crying foul.

[Alice Bowie]

It has nothing to do with jealousy. I'm older, have assets and my wife and I are in the 1% income earners. And not because I'm some sort of genius or worked harder/smarter than anyone else around me. It's simply because I got lucky and got into a field that paid good, I enjoy what I do, and I live in a place where it was abundant and investing in the 90's was a no brainer.

You can ignore the 1% problem all you want but it is a symptom of a major problem. It needs to be tweeked. No one says it needs to be thrown away.

[Frankjasper1]

I am not 1 pct so will you give me some money? Ill set up a paypal!

In seriousness regulations and mandates hurt the small mom and pops over the big chains as they can absorb the costs better. Regulatory capture? Min wage?

[Sevo]

Alice Bowie|10.20.15 @ 5:38PM|#
"You can ignore the 1% problem all you want but it is a symptom of a major problem."

It's only a "problem" to guilty twits and the envious.

[Hyperbolical (wadair)]

You can ignore the 1% problem all you want but it is a symptom of a major problem.

Yes, I can ignore the problem because I'm not in the 1%. Only the 1% and the government need worry about this problem. And they should worry because of the potential for popular unrest taking away their wealth or their lives. Otherwise, it's not a problem.

[OldMexican]

Re: Alice Bowie,

It's simply because I got lucky and got into a field that paid good,

In my experience there is no such thing as 'luck' - Obi Wan Kenobi

You can ignore the 1% problem all you want but it is a symptom of a major problem.

It's actually the result of a Pareto distribution and thus inevitable.
20% of the people will own 80% of all capital
4% of the people will own 64% of all capital (0.2 x 20% and 0.8 x 80%)
And, finally:
0.8% of all people will own 51% of all capital (.04 x 20% and 0.64 x 80%)

That is INEVITABLE, no matter how much you huff and puff.

It needs to be tweeked.

Maybe it needs to be twerked.

[Harun]

If we did not have income tax data, no one would even care about inequality.

Most rich people you know about are not hated for their wealth. Go on reddit. Nobody whinges about Bill Gates or even comedians being rich.

The moment it becomes abstract, though, people on reddit demand redistribution.

This is why I think without any data, no one would care. Maybe with the bank bailouts.

Also, poor people have it really good. I know some "poor" people and they have a lot of leisure time, jobs without much stress, and still drink at clubs and take road trips. My sister enjoyed 10 years of college in the bay area and now has some low-paying job - I'm sure she's getting $50/month healthcare while I pay $1,400.

And I have another high school buddy also paying $50/month for his ACA plan which means he's poor...but his facebook page is full of drinking at Goth raves, flying to Wisconsin for a vacation, eating in restaurants...and he has to live in the Bay area of course.

This is not the lifestyle of a destitute coal miner. I make more money than him but am jealous of his free time. Should we force him to chores around my home so I can "re-distribute" leisure from him to me?

Keep in mind he's a peer - he's not an idiot or handicapped. He just wants to be a Goth DJ and play in bands...and have me pay for this health insurance.
He could make 6 figures managing an In & Out...but that's not cool, dude.

[Eric L]

'It's simply because I got lucky and got into a field that paid good,'
Yeah, at school on career day when they arbitrarily assigned everyone to their future jobs you were so lucky, unlike your two classmates on either side of you who got stuck for life doing jobs in the fields of puppetry and belly button lint picking.

'I'm older, have assets?' So did you get lucky there too and win the lottery or did you and your wife spend less than what you earned. There are people I know who had really high paying jobs but spent more than they earned on ephemera, got into debt and pissed away money on paying interest that could have gone to building up their net worth. Despite their high lifetime earnings they had little to show for it.

[DesigNate]

No no no, the pie can't grow bigger, that's just crazy talk.

It's obvious that wealth is a zero sum game - at least in the minds of mental midgets like Tony, Alice, and Jackass.

[gaoxiaen]

Here in Taiwan, the healthcare system is a subsidy to all businesses. Private companies, workers, and unemployed don't have to worry about that shit at all. It gives Taiwan a leg up on the competition. In the USA, the AMA (doctors' labor union) writes the legislation, and it's expensive and time-consuming for everyone concerned. If the AMA wants to monopolize health care, maybe it should be regulated as a public utility. Accordingly, pharmacists should be allowed to prescribe. I shouldn't have to pay a hundred dollars for a permission slip to buy five dollars worth of medicine. I don't want to pay for a doctor's son to go to Harvard in a new BMW.

[Hyperbolical (wadair)]

In the USA, the AMA (doctors' labor union) writes the legislation

Well the latest legislation increasing government power in the healthcare industry was written by insurance companies. Do like that better than having doctors write it? Furthermore, do you really think that absolute government control over an industry like healthcare would eliminate or reduce the influence of doctors in the writing of legislation?

[OldMexican]

Re: gaoxiaen,

Here in Taiwan, the healthcare system is a subsidy to all businesses.

Anything given for free can be construed as a subsidy to anyone.

Private companies, workers, and unemployed don't have to worry about that shit at all.

As long as they don't get sick....

I shouldn't have to pay a hundred dollars for a permission slip to buy five dollars worth of medicine.

In Mexico, where most health care is still 100% private, you can go to any pharmacy and get what you want without a $100 permission slip from a doctor - unless we're talking about narcotics. In that case, you go to a different kind of pharmacy.

The problem is not that health care is not socialized; the problem is licensing laws and drug control laws. Socialized medicine creates too much negative feedback.

[Harun]

As someone who has lived in Taiwan for 20 years of my life and opened several companies there, you are not fully correct about how Taiwan's healthcare system operates....at least as far as I remember, because I've been back in the states a few years - so feel free to correct me.

Businesses are very much enmeshed in the running of the healthcare system. You may recall that your health care card was given to you by your employer...this is because its run through them. There are in fact many costs that the average joe never sees. For example, the gua hau fei is very low for workers, but there is a co-pay by your employer (NT$ 750, IIRC) Yes, most people don't even know about that. I believe there are also some other payments from the employer and time and paperwork.

I think they do that because they do not offer lao bao or jian bao to unemployed people - you have to have a job to get the cheap care. Otherwise why have employers do anything? Also, its a way to have a lot of cost passed on to companies.

I know a lot of people love Taiwan's system, and I like it too, but it has a lot of drawbacks people don't know about. Still, its one of the better single payer set ups, and if you could promise we would get Taiwanese results in the states, I might take it up. We wouldn't though.

[Sevo]

So you're saying there is still no free lunch. I thought maybe the suggestion there was might have been mistaken, and I appreciate you correcting that bullshit claim.
And BTW, re the earlier post: "It gives Taiwan a leg up on the competition"
I've read this happy horseshit more times than I care to count. Please tell us, gaoxiaen, how adding governmental frictional costs to ANY transaction makes it cheaper.
I'll be waiting.....

[Brian]

Alice Bowie:

"Nobody says capitalism is bad."

Bullshit. Progressives whine about capitalism all the time.

Hell, try 'Google:"Capitalism is bad." You'll get plenty of hits.

Let's not play pretend games, please.

[Loss of Reason]

You poor bastard! Did she give you a tampon earring?
Sorry only 5 people saw you on there.

[tbeard524]

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