China Said to Be Creating "Social Credit" Scores to Rule Citizens' Lives
ACLU alarmed at idea that every bit of public info might feed into these high-tech "credit scores" that will define Chinese citizens' lives.
The American Civil Liberties Union is noting-with-alarm a scary new system of "social rating" in development in China. Here's the nub:
China is launching a comprehensive "credit score" system….leveraging all the tools of the information age—electronic purchasing data, social networks, algorithmic sorting—to construct the ultimate tool of social control.
- Everybody is measured by a score between 350 and 950, which is linked to their national identity card. While currently supposedly voluntary, the government has announced that it will be mandatory by 2020.
- The system is run by two companies, Alibaba and Tencent, which run all the social networks in China and therefore have access to a vast amount of data about people's social ties and activities and what they say.
- In addition to measuring your ability to pay, as in the United States, the scores serve as a measure of political compliance. Among the things that will hurt a citizen's score are posting political opinions without prior permission, or posting information that the regime does not like, such as about the Tienanmen Square massacre that the government carried out to hold on to power, or the Shanghai stock market collapse.
- It will hurt your score not only if you do these things, but if any ofyour friends do them. Imagine the social pressure against disobedience or dissent that this will create.
- Anybody can check anyone else's score online. Among other things, this lets people find out which of their friends may be hurting their scores….
- Those with higher scores are rewarded with concrete benefits. Those who reach 700, for example, get easy access to a Singapore travel permit, while those who hit 750 get an even more valued visa.
- Sadly, many Chinese appear to be embracing the score as a measure of social worth, with almost 100,000 people bragging about their scores on the Chinese equivalent of Twitter.
At the ACLU we are constantly warning of the dangers of abuses of power, and often the dangers we cite, while well-founded, consist of potential futures, leading critics to say we're being "merely theoretical." With this Chinese system, a whole range of things we've warned about are no longer theoretical.
It's reifying the fears that many Americans have about what the ill-intentioned could do with all the information that the likes of a Facebook have about their users. Technologies of communication can certainly be double-edged swords, as this planned system demonstrates.
While this is not being widely reported, yet, and seems almost too bad to be true, the ACLU's report contains a few news clips that themselves have links to other clips that make the existence of this system seem legit, including this supposedly translated official announcement of the plan from the Chinese government.
Here's the Daily Dot and a Alibaba press release referring to "Sesame Scores" that seem to be what the ACLU is talking about. An Ant Financial Services press release from January seems to be discussing the same system in the brighter light of helping Chinese citizens get easier access to certain forms of credit, housing, jobs, and even online dates.
The more alarming political implications the ACLU lists above seem to largely be sourced from Rick Falkvinge of the Swedish "Pirate Party" whom Reason has written about in the past. At any rate, something new to worry about.
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As a beloved H&R commenter I expect to receive a score of at least 951 when this launches in the USA.
Only if that Libertarian Moment happens.
Only if we're going to use golf scoring.
Is that where you alter the onboard computer so it registers a different, more favorable number?
That's bowling. And Warren this is not Nam, this is bowling, there are *rules*.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQmQhA-OrM
Only if that Libertarian Moment happens.
I predict that will be at least a century after the singularity.
You mean -951. You got a lotta boot licking to do to reverse that.
Make the exact same system here and the SJWs would have no problem with it. This is what they want. Change a few buzzwords in there and you realize it will happen here too
Oh your facebook FRIEND has the wrong opinion, better unfriend them! Did you retweet the right things???
Anonymously reported microaggressions will take a point off your score. Justice at last.
"which is linked to their national identity card. "
I was just about to poo-poo this concept when I realized that I have a passport and a social security card.
Don't forget your Sex Offender Card.
If you get it punched eleven times do you win something?
You win Warty. Or, more correctly, Warty wins you.
I thought 'getting it punched' *was* the reward? That's what the kids are calling it these days right? Like 'Netflix and chill'?
Is that a stamp card you give to your customervictims?
I lost to a spittoon.
The sex offender card is state issued.
Does it comply with RealID?
The picture on it matches my penis, if that's what you're asking.
However the office is next to a school and they won't mail it to you.
Then a federal program is in order.
Should I have a Social Security card? I don't think I do.
I didn't have one for the longest time either but I got a "replacement" one in 2009 or so because they were shortly going to make getting another one really hard, and there will be times when it can be very useful towards providing the info to verify your identity, as annoying as that is. I think what compelled me to do it was the renewal of my passport.
Seems kind of pointless since all it has on it is your name and number. I don't recall ever being asked for the actual card. I know the number since it was burned into my memory applying for college financial aid.
It seemed just as pointless to me, that's why I didn't have one for so long (and like you, college burned my SSN into my brain even without applying for financial aid; you had to put it on everything from course choices to simple paperwork), but astoundingly they want it sometimes. Even though it's just a little piece of paper that doesn't even have a photo and could be easily faked.
I mean, are we actually expecting government to *not* be stupid?
I didn't have a number until I was like 12. I think the schools started requiring them about that time.
I've had the same job for 15 years, but if I got another one, I think I'd need to show the card.
I just got another job after 15 years and I used my birth certificate (which I had to order a copy of) but no SS card (which I don't have).
Are you even American, or are you an illegal leprechaun?
The difference between the US and China is that the latter is publicizing their system of tracking and scoring people according to their online activities.
The NSA are a bunch of idiots. If they had just made it possible for people to socially signal while being spied upon, there would never have been a scandal. There was a scandal, right?
China Seeking to Create Even More Jobs in Identity Theft, Forged Document, and Fake Identity Industries!
"? Anything you can do, I can do evillier... ?"
No you can't
Yes I CAN!
NO YOU CAN'T!
'I can wear this sweater!'
'I can have you deported to a black site and tortured by agents of a friendly totalitarian regime, better!'
Knowing Asians and their love of online metrics, this could very well usher in a new era of fidelity to Chinese communism.
They took that statue from the Luxor in Vegas and put it in front of the complaints office.
It you want to go in and complain, you have to walk under the Sphinx's scrotum. Its very bad luck.
I've read that the China-man can be quite superstitious with regard to numbers, are there any in the given range that would be especially auspicious or horrifying to have?
4
Fantastic!
444 would be horrifying
888 would be the best - much better than anything higher for many
'Yelp for People' App Founder Says Peeple Won't Be 'Shamed Into Submission'
This'll be massive. People love being spied on when it's "cool" and, like boneheads who brag about their Meyers-Brigs score, it gives certain people another pointless trophy to shoot for.
How does one brag about their personality test:) I've never heard of that.
It happens, believe me. Usually it's the "Alpha Male" douchebags who go out of their way to mention "I'm a blahblahblah according to the Myers-Briggs test". It's the idiot version of "I'm a Mensa member, you know...".
That is very sad.
People brag about Meyers-Briggs?
I do not want to know any of those people.
E-N-T-P
Which apparently means I like to argue for positions I don't actually believe in. Which then explains why I am here.
I'm pretty sure mine's F-Y-T-W
I will admit it's not any different than astrology. It's just seductive like all these spells of modernity.
Over decades, I've consistently been ENT, and so close to the line between J & P that I sometimes come out ENTJ & other times ENTP.
INTJ, bitch. We rock.
Mine came up C.H.U.D.
The Donald's score is H-U-G-E
Are you sure it's not CHOAD?
For your edification.
Sorry, I meant INTP. We're too introspective to boast.
I bet most of Reason commenters would have "NT" in their MBTI result. It's the cold, rational temperament. I'm INTP
Hugs.
Yeah, except more realistically we'd probably just nod coolly at one another
Nodding coolly.
What's the one where everywhere you go turns into a party?
MDMA?
*wackawackawackawacka chicka chicka boom boom - does the White Guy dance*
Whatever Agile Cyborg's personality is?
All of them
I was always I/ENTP
I can attest to that. I used to post on a forum for mbti back in the day because I think it's interesting. But some people can be very elitist about their personality, which defeats the purpose. The point is to simply identify people's preferences and patterns of behavior...not judge them.
You only have to worry if they brag about their Voight-Kampff score.
"I am lying here in the dark waiting for death."
Conrad? How jejune.
The Facebook generation would drool over the possibility of having this available.
"IF I UNFRIEND YOU THEN YOUR SCORE WILL PLUMMET SO YOU BETTER BE NICE TO ME."
Egad.
Seems like in a society like that, there would be so many ways to get back at people that making threats would not be in one's best interest.
Prummet?
Lacist.
This post gave Thomas Friedman a leg tingle.
His crotch is Hot and Crowded.
You forgot Flat.
It's like a relatively giant tapeworm!
Somewhere, a Japanese girl squeaks for joy.
*covers mouth and giggles*
Not just Thomas Friedman. Every lefty and SJW will come in their pants when they hear about it.
I predict this'll be about 10% Orwell 90% boon-doggle. It'll be a corrupt, unworkable cluster.
Like Canada.
Be careful, fwend, or they'll go on strike.
He's not your fwend, buddy.
I had a guaranteed *government sale with this - ad program, marketing for twenty-five years... Who cares if it worked or not?
In any case - what's important is not who accurate the metrics are but how difficult is it for those in power to 'tweak' the numbers for their enemies and so justify the use of state power and withdrawal of state favor.
This just proves that some animals ARE more equal than others.
Struggle sessions move slowly into the modern world.
This all sounds familiar...
"You're afraid to see where it's leading. I'm not. I'll tell you. The world of the future. The world I want. A world of obedience and of unity. A world where the thought of each man will not be his own, but an attempt to guess the thought in the brain of his neighbor who'll have no thought of his own but an attempt to guess the thought of the next neighbor who'll have no thought?and so on, Peter, around the globe... A world in which man will not work for so innocent an incentive as money, but for that headless monster?prestige. The approval of his fellows?their good opinion?the opinion of men who'll be allowed to hold no opinion. An octopus, all tentacles and no brain...We'll enjoy unlimited submission?from men who've learned nothing except to submit. We'll call it 'to serve.' We'll give out medals for service. You'll fall over one another in a scramble to see who can submit better and more. There will be no other distinction to seek. No other form of personal achievement. Can you see Howard Roark in the picture?"
There are always rebels. Always.
But will there be enough?
Impossible to know until the histories are written.
Anyone who plays videogames would not be surprised by this. People will do stupid, boring, unrewarding shit just to push up their 'gamerscore'. Half of all game forum posts are someone bitching because an 'achievement' didn't unlock for them. Most of the rest are asking for more achievements or worrying about whether or not an upcoming game will have them - hint: yes it fucking will.
People are horrible.
You would not believe how excited I got when a stupid comment I made on reddit was loaded up with karma. I am shame, but alas, human.
achievements are the worst. I love beating a game and 'mastering' it, ie doing all there is to do, but that should come naturally, not with a fucking achievement system telling me to do some mundane task 100 times
achievements are the worst. I love beating a game and 'mastering' it, ie doing all there is to do, but that should come naturally, not with a fucking achievement system telling me to do some mundane task 100 times
Nicole is "the worst", and YOU are the Weakest Link!
b-bye
achievements are the worst. I love beating a game and 'mastering' it, ie doing all there is to do, but that should come naturally, not with a fucking achievement system telling me to do some mundane task 100 times
Did you get an achievement for triple posting?
Or even 3 times.
Oh Baby, A Triple!: Triple post on Reason's Hit and Run comment section 0 Unlocked Oct. 6th, 2015 @ 8:00pm
Some achievements suck but many are awesome. Killing all the grubs in HL2 ep2 is a huge waste of time and you will probably miss one so that achievement sucks, but killing zombies with you car is fun.
Is it fun *without* the achievement - then the achievement serves no purpose.
Is it *not* fun without the achievement - then its not fun.
100,000 people bragging about their scores on the Chinese equivalent of Twitter.
All of them completely legit and not at all paid by the Chinese government.
Hey, at the very least they don't have plans to line people who fall below 300 up against the wall and shoot them yet. One step closer to the uptopia.
Nah - those guys just don't get reproduction permits.
And they lose access to their housing subsidy.
And they have to find a lower paying job because their score is hurting the advancement prospects of their current firm.
As its been said - a government powerful enough to give you everything is powerful enough to take it all away.
those guys just don't get reproduction permits
"No more boom boom for you, Baby San...."
"As its been said - a government powerful enough to give you everything is powerful enough to take it all away."
Amend that to 'will take it away'. Can you imagine Mr. Punish Our Enemies and his ilk with their hands on that power and NOT using it? Can you imagine that if that power existed that the kinds of people who want to use it would not end up in power?
Know who get worst score in China? Fucking Mongorians!
Oh no! Fucking Mongorians are trying to tear down my shitty wall!
*City* wall you racist.
That's what I said! You want some shitty beef or shitty chicken? Take your order prease!
I hope you're current. They expanded on him with child labor last week.
You not go to SodoSopa! Come to City Wok! Take a order, prease!
You come to historic CtPaTown.
So this evolution of communism does not meet approval with the ACLU commies? If Mao proposed this, the ACLU would be all for it.
More along the lines of the ACLU gets it's wish but then realizes it phucked up.
That crossed my mind also.
Most pinkos here can't see or don't believe where their policy preferences will lead.
They always believe their policies lead to utopia. If they don't arrive in utopia, it is some evil capitalist's fault.
Is this like karma in 'Fallout'?
Do you lose karma when you mention "woodchipper"?
The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?
The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
I am like a leaf on the wi...................
Sounds more like the karma on Slashdot.
I was thinking Karmann Ghia
Not Carmen Ghia?
http://tinyurl.com/nqcu2ok
Carmen Electra
Who do want determining whether you have a sufficiently proper social outlook and status to warrant access to benefits the state can provide? Some sweaty, smelly, sycophantic, bottom dwelling, corrupt party apparatchik charged with maintaining public morals and order within the shit hole of public housing you've been assigned, or a network of rule defined algorithms indifferent to the nightmare of human depravity, slavery and foul political machinations that define the world in which you live. This scoring system brings order, fairness and predictability to a social system that is suitably characterized as a random and chaotic whirlpool of animalistic survival strategies.
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http://www.OnlineJobs100.Com
Look man, James - you're going to need to do better than that half-arsed story to cover up your source of income.
What have guys done with Susan.
That's what I'm talking about. Insurance fraud is the *least* of the things James needs to cover up.
Chinese-Americans in the LA area have safe deposit boxes in Chinese-American banks filled to the brim with US cash.
Good.
Means those scary Chinese-Americans have given God-fearing *proper* "just-American"s goods and services and only gotten paper in return.
I'd make a small wager that this is mostly speculation.
But it all seems within the realm of possibility, which is bad enough.
"Sadly, many Chinese appear to be embracing the score as a measure of social worth, with almost 100,000 people bragging about their scores "
And how many willingly brag about wanting to vote for a self admitted socialist, a criminal, or a person that robs other people's homes through state violence in order to build what they want?
Politics and voting lead to the enslavement of others. The slave mentality in China and everywhere else is disgusting.
You want to lick my fucking boots like a bitch? I'll rule you. Why force everyone else to do so along with you? Leave others alone, and let them be free.
Suddenly, China realized that it has a huge population of people with no official friends. Heartbreaking!