Murder

Teen on Trial for Urging Suicidal Boyfriend to Kill Himself

Prosecutors say Michelle Carter "wantonly and recklessly" caused her boyfriend's death.

|

Michelle Carter/Facebook

Massachusetts high-school student Michele Carter, now 18, is currently on trial for involuntary manslaughter after urging her suicidal boyfriend, Conrad Roy III, to go through with plans to kill himself last year. Prosecutors say Carter "wantonly and recklessly" caused Roy's death. Carter's lawyer argues that Roy, who had a history of depression and had attempted suicide once before, decided on his own accord to kill himself and Carter's support for his decision amounts to protected First Amendment speech. 

On the day Roy committed suicide via carbon monoxide poisoning outside a Fairhaven, Kansas, Kmart, Carter allegedly texted him: "You can't think about it. You just have to do it. You said you were gonna do it. Like I don't get why you aren't." Another text said: "You can't keep living this way. You just need to do it like you did the last time and not think about it and just do it, babe." 

In Kansas, involuntary manslaughter is defined as "the unintentional killing of a human being committed either a) recklessly, b) in the commission of a separate felony or c) during the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner." 

Previously, Carter had urged Roy to seek psychiatric treatment for his depression, including once just a few days before his suicide. It seems highly plausible she wasn't trying to encourage Roy's demise out of ill will but acting in what she thought was his best interest. Do we really want to charge teens as killers for reacting imperfectly to loved ones' pain and mental illness? 

"It would be a dangerous precedent that speech can cause another person's death by suicide," said Carter's lawyer.

Roy "got the generator, he devised the plan and he had to go find a spot. He parked, he had to get the gas for the generator, he had to turn the generator on, he had to sit in that car for a long period of time. He caused his own death," he said "It's sad, but it's not manslaughter."

Daniel Medwed, a Northeastern University law professor, told  the Associated Press that causation was the heart of the issue. "Can the prosecution prove that she caused him to kill himself in this way? Would he have done it anyway?"

NEXT: Joe Biden Entering Campaign Mode, Slams Economy

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. Oh come on now. The kid was just getting it over with. He knew one day he’d have to marry her.

    1. Claw clap

  2. Do we really want to charge teens as killers for reacting imperfectly to loved ones’ pain and mental illness?

    Maybe this is a case of proprietorial overreach, but this girl is a sociopath. She didn’t react imperfectly. She wanted him dead so she could play the martyr.

    1. I hate to quibble with what I’m certain are your impeccable Internet Psychology credentials, but…

      Cataldo said Carter had tried repeatedly to talk Roy out of killing himself and only decided to support his plan when it became clear she could not change his mind.

      About a month before his suicide, she suggested that he seek treatment at a psychiatric hospital where she was receiving treatment for a condition Cataldo would not disclose. Roy refused and later twice suggested that they both kill themselves, like Romeo and Juliet, Cataldo said.

      In a text exchange on July 7, 2014, six days before he was found dead, Carter advised Roy to seek help.

      1. That’s a narrative. Show me the transcripts. Because the other transcripts are pretty fucking damning.

        1. Yeah, I wonder why the transcripts released by the prosecution are one sided

          1. I imagine the defense would do so as well, if there was anything exonerating. Kind of tells you something, doesn’t it?

            1. Maybe that the defense is more interested in defending his client than in getting re-elected?

              1. Lot of maybes here. Maybe he should fight in the court of public opinion too, since the prosecution is already doing it.

            2. Life is a highway?

          2. I dunno about you man, but on a “Libertarian” website, I expect to find lots of people who will unquestioningly accept the words of government prosecutors and all sorts of officials.

            I mean, they’re the good guys right?

            Sorry, I broke the sarcasm meter on my keyboard…

        2. Are they? What if I rearrange the article a little bit for you:

          Previously, Carter had urged Roy to seek psychiatric treatment for his depression, including once just a few days before his suicide. Carter allegedly texted him: “You can’t think about it. You just have to do it. You said you were gonna do it. Like I don’t get why you aren’t.” Another text said: “You can’t keep living this way. You just need to do it like you did the last time and not think about it and just do it, babe.”

          1. But the whole thing is below, so nevermind.

      2. It’s possible. The alternative scenario seems plausible, too.

      3. CONRAD: Like, why am I so hesitant lately. Like two weeks ago I was willing to try everything and now I’m worse, really bad and I’m LOL not following through. It’s eating me inside.
        CARTER: You’re so hesitant because you keeping over thinking it and keep pushing it off. You just need to do it, Conrad. The more you push it off, the more it will eat at you. You’re ready and prepared. All you have to do is turn the generator on and you will be free and happy. No more pushing it off. No more waiting.
        CONRAD: You’re right.
        CARTER: If you want it as bad as you say you do it’s time to do it today.
        CONRAD: Yup. No more waiting.
        CARTER: Okay. I’m serious. Like you can’t even wait ’till tonight. You have to do it when you get back from your walk.
        CONRAD: Thank you.
        CARTER: For what?
        CONRAD: Still being here.
        CARTER: I would never leave you. You’re the love of my life, my boyfriend. You are my heart. I’d never leave you.
        CONRAD: Aw.
        CARTER: I love you.
        CONRAD: Love you, too.
        CARTER: When will you be back from your walk?
        CONRAD: Like, five minutes.
        CARTER: Okay. So you gonna do it?
        CONRAD: I guess.

        1. CARTER: Well, I want you to be ready and sure. What does that mean?
          CONRAD: I don’t know. I’m freaking out again. I’m over thinking.
          CARTER: I thought you wanted to do this. This time is right and you’re ready. You just need to do it.
          You can’t keep living this way. You just need to do it like you did the last time and not think about it and just do it, babe. You can’t keep doing this every day.
          CONRAD: I do want to but I’m like freaking for my family I guess. I don’t know.
          CARTER: Conrad, I told you I’ll take care of them. Everyone will take care of them to make sure they won’t be alone and people will help them get through it. We talked about this and they will be okay and accept it. People who commit suicide don’t think this much. They just could do it.
          CONRAD: I know. I know. LOL. Thinking just drives me more crazy.
          CARTER: You just need to do it, Conrad, or I’m gonna get you help. You can’t keep doing this everyday.
          CONRAD: Okay. I’m gonna do it today.
          CARTER: You promise?
          CONRAD: I promise, babe. I have to now.
          CARTER: Like right now?
          CONRAD: Where do I go?
          CARTER: And you can’t break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something.
          CONRAD: Okay.
          CARTER: Go somewhere you know you won’t get caught. You can find a place. I know you can. Are you doing it now?

          1. I suppose that given this particular transcript, by “it” they could be referring to “attempting that soufflet”.

            1. That’s a very advanced dish for a young person. Maybe they were talking about anal.

              1. That’s a very advanced dish for a young person.

                That’s why I give it 50/50 soufflet/suicide.

            2. Nothing in that transcript contradicts the statement that she advised him to seek help.

              1. The statement that she gave after she realized that she was in trouble?

              2. Nothing in that transcript contradicts the statement that she advised him to seek help.

                I’m no lawyer (or Doctor) but nothing about her claim that she advised him to seek help contradicts the fact that she appears to directly, expressly and aggressively encourage him to kill himself.

                So the only question here is one of law. Does her encouragement amount to a manslaughter charge? I’m doubtful, but I sure would like to know what in fuck’s name she was attempting to achieve here.

                1. Maybe she was encouraging him to do something he was convinced he wanted to do, but lacked the will to follow through on?

                  1. Maybe she was encouraging him to do something he was convinced he wanted to do, but lacked the will to follow through on?

                    Hence my theory that this was all really about a Soufflet.

                    1. What kind of souffle needs a generator to make?

                    2. What kind of souffle needs a generator to make?

                      Those easy bake ovens don’t power themselves. Especially when he’s supposed to make it in a place where no one’s around and he won’t get caught. Like in a parking lot.

                2. Show me an independent, reliable source that says that she advised him to seek help. I’m not going to take the word of a sociopath at face value.

                  1. Well again, calling her a sociopath is either baseless internet psychology or pathologizing actions that you don’t approve of.

                    And the Cataldo in the passage I quoted is her defense attorney. So either he entered the text exchange mentioned in the passage into evidence in her defense, or he made it up on the fly in hopes that the jury would be distracted long enough for him sneak her over the border.

                    1. Well again, calling her a sociopath is either baseless internet psychology or pathologizing actions that you don’t approve of.

                      *finger snap applause*

                      You’re correct there. I don’t really approve much of her action. See my comment above about where this legally lands.

                3. My assumption is she was just annoyed with what she perceived as his whiny drama, which I assume was constant.

                4. How can it be unclear to you what she was attempting? She was trying to get him to go through with suicide

                  1. Careless,

                    That is only “clear” to you because he actually did kill himself.

                    For every teenager who actually commits suicide there are many more who threaten it because they want attention and/or pity. If, as appears to be the case, he had been talking about suicide for months without *anybody* having him committed, who’s to say that it was clear he was serious about suicide?

                    1. who’s to say that it was clear he was serious about suicide?

                      Well, it’s reasonable to conclude she helped him out with that decision.

                5. Who knows? Maybe he’d been threatening to kill himself for months and she was sick of his bullshit and didn’t take him seriously. Maybe she is an evil person who wanted him dead. Maybe something in between.

                  If you believe that free will exists, though, it is indisputable that she did not cause his death. He killed himself; end of story.

                6. This one time in band camp on my ship in the Navy, we had a guy who kept threatening to commit suicide, or getting caught attempting it in various manners that were unlikely to work (ie trying to hang himself in a compartment that had a lot of people going in and out of it)

                  The LCDR in his chain of command finally had enough. After yet another weird attempt on the part of the hapless sailor, he had the guy summoned to his office.

                  Once the guy was there in front of him, standing at attention, the LCDR handed him a hunting knife and said, “this ends now. If you truly want to die, I order you to slash your wrists. I’ll make sure nobody bothers you while you do it.”

                  The sailor burst into tears, and that was the end of the attempts.

                  There was another guy who kept threatening to commit suicide whose modus operandi was to run around on the flight deck pretending that he was going to jump off. His LPO asked me for permission to help him with a push, and pouted when I ordered them to catch him and bring him down below decks, unharmed. Eventually the guy ended up with an Admin separation – he just couldn’t hack living on a ship.

                  1. A third guy wanted to get out of deployment early, so he decided to fake a suicide attempt. He was standing watch alone in a switchboard room. He decided that the perfect way to do this was to have his watch relief discover him at the end of a noose, but with the noose hanging down so his tippy toes *juust* touched the deck.

                    He measured the rope length very carefully, stood on his chair, tied the noose to a bracket overhead, put the noose around his neck, and jumped down.

                    Unfortunately, when one jumps down onto one’s tippy toes, usually one doesn’t instantly come to a stop. Usually the heel keeps descending until the plantar-achilles tendon stack have been stretched to the point where they are taking up the weight.

                    So his head went lower than he anticipated, the noose got pulled tight around his neck, and he started strangling.

                    When his watch relief walked in, he was confronted by a guy desperately trying to work his fingers to loosen a noose, while his eyes bulged and he hoarsely croaked for help.

                    They really hammered that guy during Captain’s mast (Article 15 for you groundpounders)

                    1. Tarran,

                      Those examples were an improvement over wearing women’s clothing while serving in a medical unit during Korea, so there is that.

                    2. The first female nukes started joining the fleet during my time on my ship. The ones wanting to get out of deployment didn’t engage in any embarrassing hysterics.

                      They simply screwed around until they got pregnant.

                      No muss, no fuss. Pregnant women can’t work on a reactor. So that was an instant ticket off the ship.

                      All but one of the enlisted women ended up going that route. The one who didn’t was my favorite; she did her job, did it well, and carried her weight.

                    3. They simply screwed around until they got pregnant.

                      I’m told this is a myth perpetrated by the patriarchy.

                    4. and carried her weight

                      Was she a… big fat girl?

                    5. They really hammered that guy during Captain’s mast (Article 15 for you groundpounders)

                      I am disappoint. I was sure the navy still keelhauled or would make him walk the plank.

                    6. We had jackass who was totally incompetent at every position he was put. He was constantly berated by our squad leader for his screw ups. Finally he went to our PSG, telling him he was gonna kill the squad leader or himself. PSG handed him a loaded 92 and said, “So fucking do it or get out, I have work to do.” He’s was in a different company when I got back from mid-tour leave. (Disclosure: I hated the prickly stemming from an incident when he nearly shot my arm off in a shoot house)

                    7. They really hammered that guy during Captain’s mast..

                      So it really is Rum, Sodomy and the Lash, then?

            3. in english it’s “souffle’

          2. Shit, that is totally Romeo and Juliet. Eat your decomposed heart out, Shakespeare.

            1. Romeo and Juliet with out any fucking, I presume.

              1. Isn’t Romeo and Juliet considered child porn in today’s progressive utopia?

                Especially since Romeo was rich and his societal position probably put pressure on Juliet to put out (statutory rape) in order to keep her place in society.

          3. Bojack: You’re probably wondering what this beautiful mahogany box is.

            Wanda: I wasn’t wondering that.

            Bojack: It’s my auto-erotic asphyxiation kit. I’ve decided to do the funky Spider-Man.

            Wanda: What? Funky Spider-Man?

            Bojack: I came up with that one myself. Because he hangs, then he shoots webbing.

            Wanda: Wait. Are you saying you want to auto-erotic asphyxiate yourself?

            Bojack: Yes. I do. Even though it’s very dangerous and I could die.

            Wanda: Oh.

            Bojack: Now, if you love me, you probably wouldn’t want me to do it.

            Wanda: Okay. I get it.

            Bojack: Since you don’t, I should do it, right? I mean, there’s no reason not to… unless you love me.

            Wanda: Do it.

            Bojack: Wait. Seriously?

            Wanda: Seems like you’ve already made up your mind. If you’re that set on it, knock yourself out.

            Bojack: [laughs] Only if I do it wrong. Because as I mentioned before, it’s very dangerous.

            Wanda: Have fun.

            Bojack: I’m serious. I’m really gonna do it.

            Wanda: Great. Put a towel down. Not one of the good ones.

      4. She could always plead insanity. Because you’d have to be fucking insane to goad a suicudal person along when you could alert someone to their condition that could help them, even if it’s involuntary.

        This bitch is fucking nuts.

        1. Perhaps, but why not focus on the egomaniacal prosecutor?

          1. He should be disbarred.

            But she should be widely shamed for her actions. From a legal standpoint, she shouldn’t be prosecuted. She never used force against her former boyfriend. For that, the prosecutor is wrong. But her immorality should be publicized so nobody else suffers the fate of getting involved with her.

            1. Yeah, psycho-bitch needs “shaming”. You would think that’s all it takes to make her human.

              1. It’s a start.

                1. She is unshameable. She has no capacity to be shamed. She will be making snuff videos in 2 years, killing puppies and kittens with barbed wire, wearing stilettos & Daisy Dukes. And a smile.

          2. Geez, what is it with you people? When you’re not bitching about the NSA or cops killing innocent black men, you’re bitching about egomaniacal prosecutor.

            Why don’t you start performing late-term abortions in the Oval Office too? Humming “you can’t always get what you want” as you keep time with the suction machine!

        2. So you would forcibly institutionalize him to prevent an action that harms no one but him? Very libertarian of you.

          1. But with some thing, everyone agrees, so it’s okay.

            That’s how it works, right?

          2. If he doesn’t have his mental faculties, perhaps he needs someone to act in his best interests.

            I won’t let my infant walk out I to the street because she lacks the mental faculties to determine whether it is prudent. Am I unlibetarian since her actions won’t harm anyone but her?

            1. This kid was capable of carrying on a sustained conversation and making a plan and following through with it. Nothing I’ve read about him suggests he lacked in mental faculties, aside from being a teenager.

              1. The fact that he killed himself should be a dead giveaway, shouldn’t it?

                1. People do shit that other people don’t understand all the time.

                  Dan Bongard makes a good point below about joining the military. Signing up to catch bullets for a fairy tale strikes me as insane. But it’s so common that nobody else sees how crazy it is.

                  This kid had feelings that you don’t understand and acted in ways that you don’t condone so you want to label him as crazy and lock him up to prevent him from doing something that harms no one but him.

                  1. I’ll remember that the next time my daughter wants to run out in traffic.

                2. NOT. AT. ALL. read schopenhauer on suicide, he puts it way way better than i could. why do you assume it’s irrational for someone to act on the thought that the bad in their life outweighs the good? your attitude is a total catch 22. we can’t let them kill themselves cuz they’re insane. we know they’re insane cuz they wanna kill themselves. very neat.

              2. Charles Manson does TV interviews. Dylan Root spoke clearly and coherently with the cops after his killing spree.

                Is carrying a conversation or following through with a plan a sign that someone has their mental faculties? I’d argue it’s not the case all the time.

          3. Survival is innate. The suicidal are not sane in my opinion barring some overwhelming physical pain they are going through.

            That’s just my opinion.

            1. While I agree that survival is an innate instinct, I can think of many instances where one would readily accept suicide while maintaining sanity: seppuku or the equivalent of sure death in combat for a worthy cause to name a few.

          4. Yes, because he lacks the capacity to make coherent rational decisions.

          5. Yep, with no regrets.

      5. Whatever, Hugh. Trying to ease someone’s last days instead of guilting them into a lifetime of suffering is clearly pathological.

        1. Leave your own personal issues out of this. This wasn’t someone in a coma or with cancer, it was an 18 year old kid who could have, and very likely would have, gotten past depression and gone on to have a happy life.

          1. And maybe he would have been miserable for decades. Leave your own personal issues out of it. Just because you enjoy life, doesn’t mean everyone will.

      6. Do you know what “support” means? Do you?

        Egging him on is not support. Calling 911 is support.

        So fuck you, asshole.

        1. Not if he wants to die it isn’t. Why don’t you respect his wishes?

          1. Why don’t you respect his wishes?

            I would say there is some merit to the argument that he wasn’t of sound mind, so if he were in a state where he was overly susceptible to suggestion then she might bear some moral responsibility. A similar argument might be if I took advantage of the trust of someone mentally retarded and told him or her to stick his or her hand in a fryalator.

            However, I don’t know enough about the mindset of Roy to judge whether or not the case would fall under that argument.

          2. cuz he’s insane, cuz only insane people want to die. that argument is a straight fucking line.

          3. It’s a short & slippery slope from an individual “freely” choosing to kill himself until that supposed free choice was a result of someone else coercing him. Like a family member or a girlfriend, sick of his perpetual moodiness.

          4. Should you respect a person’s instantaneous wishes if you can reasonably assume, on account of them temporarily experiencing dramatic personality changes, that they are not necessarily in line with what that person’s wishes would be if every potential version of them in the future got an equal vote? Depression isn’t usually a permanent condition, the guy didn’t have some sort of terminal illness or progressive disability.

            Having been in a relationship with someone dealing with (fortunately, less severe) depression, on the one hand I can’t condone a betrayal like that; on the other hand, I also know the emotional burden they can be on the people around them and I can understand how an 18 year old isn’t emotionally equipped to deal with it and would crack under the pressure. None of which is relevant to the legal arguments, of course.

      7. My local newspaper had this article and it entailed a long list of their texts over a period of time and also one damaging text with her girlfriend. They are all quite disturbing, she allegedly told her boyfriend to erase all her text messages before he committed suicide and she even told her girlfriend his parents would hate her and blame her, if they read those texts. I wish this article had all those texts because it shows how disturbed this young lady is. There is a disconnect with certain young people and the internet . You hear of many cyber bullies telling other kids to kill themselves like it is an everyday common occurrence.

    2. Even if conducting a psych eval via media coverage was a good idea, being “a sociopath” isn’t illegal.

      She did not kill him. You cannot be guilty of manslaughter if you didn’t kill anyone. It is really that simple. The prosecutor should be disbarred.

      1. BULLSHIT

          1. Fuck you too.

              1. Fuck me four…?

                Wait, I think I did that wrong…

  3. “It seems highly plausible she wasn’t trying to encourage Roy’s demise out of ill will but acting in what she thought was his best interest.”

    There are a lot of girls who’ve had ex-boyfriends threaten to kill themselves after a breakup. Ex-boyfriends are also known to call a dozen times a day right after a breakup.

    Seems to me like she was probably trying to call his bluff. If you’re not really going to kill yourself, then maybe you should go to psychiatrist–she was probably saying.

    Yeah, holding a girl responsible for what her ex-boyfriend did is wrong, but holding a girl responsible for what her insane ex-boyfriend did is absurd.

    1. When he realized that the monoxide was working, called her, and she told him to get back in the car, was that calling his bluff?

      1. You know what’s funny? Someone will happily marry this girl in a few years. Happily.

        1. *scrolls up*
          Her clock is ticking. All she has is youth and crazy eyes.

          1. Crazy eyes count for a lot.

            1. They do. But I think we now know that it’s not just the eyes.

              1. Yeah, we know, KIM DAVIS!!!1!

          2. All she has is youth and crazy eyes.

            Exactly, she is perfect.

            1. She’s getting hotter by the minute.

      2. If she didn’t believe him after he threatened to do it a hundred times, yeah.

  4. Can’t we just publicly shame her and move on?

    Oh wait, that’s not ok anymore…

    1. Per your link, she refers to herself as a “Social Activist”.

      At least she is not fibbing about that. The blue dress demonstrates that she was quite active, socially, that is.

      1. Is the “social activist” act a result of an attorney’s advice?

        1. More likely a result of her thin resume. When her White privilege didn’t overcome her personal shortcomings, she went social activist.

        2. Apparently she’s a social activist for population control.

          One. Man. At. A. Time.

      2. +1 dry cleaning ticket

  5. There should be like 20 hat tips about this trial.

    I am not one of them…just sayin’

  6. It seems highly plausible she wasn’t trying to encourage Roy’s demise out of ill will but acting in what she thought was his best interest.

    I don’t know about this, but I’m doubtful the prosecution will be successful (despite the unsympathetic defendant) and I’m sure the government knows this. But it’s a big story and some prosecutor has to get his name attached to it.

    1. I guarantee you that the prosecution will be successful. She’ll take a plea deal so a jury will never see those transcripts.

      1. All it takes is one juror willing to follow the law and there won’t be a conviction.

        She should take her changes with the jury, unless the prosecutor offers to let her plea to a misdemeanor.

        1. “All it takes is one juror willing to follow the law ”

          Like I said, she’ll get convicted.

          1. Eh, now you’re just trolling.

            1. Most jurors follow instructions, and have no idea what the law is.

              1. As someone who has served on multiple trials, I can attest to this.

        2. I can’t imagine what such an applicable misdemeanor would be.

          1. The fact that she’s being prosecuted for killing someone she objectively did not kill suggests that the prosecution doesn’t put a high value on applicability.

      2. Yeah, she’s doing time alright. Fucking ENB’s effort notwithstanding

        1. A conviction should be reversed on appeal.

          1. If she never makes it out of jail, so what? Appeal, shmeal.

  7. “Would he have done it anyway?”

    That s not the question for the jury to worry about. They only have to worry about would he have done it without her urging at the particular instance in which he did kill himself. Any hypothetical failed or successful suicide attempts in the future are immaterial.

  8. It seems highly plausible she wasn’t trying to encourage Roy’s demise out of ill will but acting in what she thought was his best interest. Do we really want to charge teens as killers for reacting imperfectly to loved ones’ pain and mental illness?

    If you look at all the texts quoted from the WaPo article, that seems like a stretch to me:
    _______

    “You always say you’re gonna do it, but you never do,” Carter complained. “I just want to make sure tonight is the real thing.”

    Another time, she texted: “You can’t keep pushing it off, though. That’s all you keep doing.”
    _____

    CARTER: Really?

    ROY: Yes.

    CARTER: That’s great. What did you do?

    ROY: Ended up going to work for a little bit and then just looked stuff up.

    CARTER: When are you gonna do it? Stop ignoring the question???
    ___________

    “Do you have the generator?” she asked him.

    “Not yet LOL,” he replied.

    “WELL WHEN ARE YOU GETTING IT?” she wrote.
    __________

    Then, the kicker, in my mind:

    “Even though I could not save my boyfriend’s life, I want to put myself out here to try to save as many other lives as possible,” she wrote on Facebook.

  9. Though I didn’t hear the entire thing, from the sounds of it, she coached him and stated “I’ll be dead if someone sees the text of me telling him to kill himself get out”.

  10. I think I’d be happy with 5-10 years and mandatory counseling on this one….

    1. Why the itch to cage this girl?

      1. She’s responsible for his death. You know, manslaughter.

        1. That’s not what “manslaughter” is, silly.

          1. Actually, that is what “manslaughter” is.

        2. I’m reminded of my mother asking me, “If everyone in your class jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?” The girl might well be a sociopath, but I don’t think she’s any more responsible for the kid’s death than the manufacturer of the generator is.

          1. but I don’t think she’s any more responsible for the kid’s death than the manufacturer of the generator is.

            Good news, there will still be a wrongful death suit!

      2. Because most people don’t give a shit about the law. They want vengeance.

        1. You’re right on that point. I absolutely don’t give a shit about the law.

          1. Thanks, Mr. States the Obvious. We hadn’t picked up on that yet.

          2. It’s a shame that torch-wielding lynch mobs are so pass

            1. They’re not environmentally friendly. Plus you need a permit for open flame on a stick inside city limits.

              1. Which is why scythes never go out of fashion.

    2. Inciting someone to suicide is a crime in Russia. Up to 5 years in prison.

      1. Even on the gay suicide hotline?

  11. Why would a teenage boy that has a girlfriend want to kill himself?

    1. Look at the girlfriend!

  12. Suicide, by definition, cannot be blamed on someone else.

    1. Well, I don’t know if that’s necessarily true.

      Hypothetical: Smith kidnaps Jones and locks him in a cell with no chance of escape. After a week, Jones gives up hope of getting out and hangs himself with a bedsheet. Jones committed suicide, but Smith would be guilty of (at the least) manslaughter.

      1. In order for it to be a suicide, you have to perform the act yourself. You cannot blame someone else, no matter if they “talked” you into it. It still is an function that can only be performed oneself. Kinda like date night for Shriek or Tony.

        1. If I kidnapped you off of the street, locked you in my dungeon, and raped you until you were bloody every single day, I’d be responsible for your death even if you hung yourself with the bedsheets while I was out getting a sandwich.

          1. Still would be my fault. Besides, maybe I like it that way. *bats eyes and winks the crazy one
            “it put’s the lotion on my skin or I roll over on you again, put the lotion on Playa bitch!!!”

          2. WELL SOMETIMES STEVE SMITH PREFER TAKE OUT

          3. Kidding aside, there are exceptions to rules. Getting your humanity ripped from you by a monster might be more along the lines of murder. A girl tired of her boyfriend constantly talking about suicide and starts goading him on: still a suicide by self.

            1. I guess she wasn’t interested in a long-term relationship.

          4. Geez, Playa, it’s not like she told him to get back in the car!

          5. That would be duress, plus it would occur during the commission of a felonious act, so you’d probably be looking at worse than manslaughter.

    2. Does this mean, I am personally liable, if someone actually DOES eat a bag of dicks?

  13. If she had a dick he would be up for murder one.

    1. I’m sure everyone here realizes that. But it’s sexist and wrong to hold a woman to the same standard as a man. Just because.

  14. OT: No Yelling Police Discriminaion:

    http://thinkprogress.org/justi…..-of-color/

    More than two years after a class action lawsuit exposed the quota policy behind the NYPD’s rampant use of stop-and-frisk, new lawsuits filed this week allege the system requiring officers to make a certain number of arrests and issue a specified number of tickets and summons, is still in effect. And officers of color are threatened and punished for speaking out against it.

    For years, the de facto quota policies in the city have contributed to racial profiling in the form of unlawful stops. Between 2002 and 2011, 90 percent of the people subjected to stops were black or Latino. Close to 90 percent resulted in no arrests or summons, and the majority of arrests ? made as a result of the stops ? were for marijuana.

    1. And officers of color are threatened and punished for speaking out against it.

      …do they not threaten and punish white officers for speaking out against it?

      1. I bring these little snippets for your entertainment and enlightenment. I do not take responsibility for the batshit premises contained therein.

  15. I was going to post what some others have said, that you can’t be guilty of manslaughter if you didn’t kill anybody, and he obviously killed himself.

    But, then I got thinking. In some (all?) states, if someone is killed during the comission of a felony, all the participants in the felony are charged and can be found guilty of the murder, even if they didn’t pull the trigger. Same with murder-for-hire. The person who hires the murderer can be convicted of the full pre-meditated murder.

    Is suicide a felony in Massachusetts? Is there such a thing as conspiracy to commit suicide, wherein she would be his conspirator in the crime of killing himself? Was he her “murder weapon” as in a murder-for-hire? Not saying all that is right, just that there is a legal precedent for being guilty of murder even if you didn’t physically murder anyone.

    1. That wouldn’t be conspiracy, more like aiding and abetting.

    2. Unlike organlegging, suicide is not a felony here.

      I think, though despicable, what she did isn’t really a crime.

      1) Suicide shouldn’t be a crime.

      2) He chose to follow her instructions. He could have chosen not to.

      1. Likewise, if I tell someone to “hurry up and get here” I’m not responsible for their speeding ticket. If I tell someone McDonald’s is great, I’m not responsible for their weight gain. If I tell someone synthetic motor oil is a wonderful thing, I’m not responsible for the extra money they spend buying it.

        1. But if you tell someone “Hurry up and shoot the bitch!” And he does, you will be charged.

          There’s a continuum; just trying to figure out where this falls on it.

  16. I don’t know how the law applies to this hopefully-rare situation, but the girl sounds like someone for whom the term “asshole” simply isn’t vivid or descriptive enough.

    1. She was just trying to help. I read so above.

      1. She clearly had his best interests in mind. Clearly.

      2. She advised him to seek help. You know, how to get the generator set up, feed the exhaust, tape the windows, that kind of thing.

        1. how to get the generator set up, feed the exhaust, tape the windows, that kind of thing.

          There is a difference between that and “go kill yourself, pussy.” If she gave him instructions as well as encouragement…goodness.

          1. That’s why she advised him to seek help. She’s not a technical person!

          2. “If you encounter difficulty with these instructions, or are unable to start your generator,

            -DO NOT CALL THE STORE YOU PURCHASED THIS UNIT FROM!-.

            Call 1-800-FIN-ALLY and a technical representative will assist you.”

      3. She was trying to help. She tried to help him get counselling, then she helped encourage him to kill himself.

    2. But can’t we all at least agree we would like to see her having a nice long talk with Donald Trump, hopefully a talk where they’re both locked in a sealed room with a generator?

  17. “Previously, Carter had urged Roy to seek psychiatric treatment for his depression, including once just a few days before his suicide. It seems highly plausible she wasn’t trying to encourage Roy’s demise out of ill will but acting in what she thought was his best interest. Do we really want to charge teens as killers for reacting imperfectly to loved ones’ pain and mental illness? ”

    He got out of the car and she told him to get back in, she would bring up suicide when the conversation had nothing to do with the subject and tell him he should kill himself, and then she used his death to get attention for herself.

    Let’s not lie about the order of events.

    1. So, if you were in the person in the car and you got out in order to call BO and he told you to get back in the car and consummate the deal, should BO face involuntary manslaughter charges. For purposes of this hypothetical, assume that the two of you had been lovers and that you had periodically expressed an interest in ending it all because you could not face the prospect of life without BO.

      1. Of course they shouldn’t. How did she ’cause’ this to happen? Someone telling you to do something certainly doesn’t ’cause’ you to do it, as anyone who has interacted with other humans knows.

    2. He got out of the car and she told him to get back in

      And?

      People keep repeating that like it means something. Was he three years old? Was she holding a gun on him? What’s that? He was a physically fit adult male and she wasn’t even anywhere near him? Ok, so walk me through how his decision to listen to her is HER fault.

      Hell, how many young men are dead today because they saw TV ads for the armed forces, signed up, and then got blown to bits on some godsforsaken sand dune in the Middle East? If we’re going to pretend that words count as murder weapons, we should start locking up our own government officials first.

      1. Hell, how many young men are dead today because they saw TV ads for the armed forces, signed up, and then got blown to bits on some godsforsaken sand dune in the Middle East? If we’re going to pretend that words count as murder weapons, we should start locking up our own government officials first.

        First Michelle Carter, then we’ll get the government officials. Baby steps.

      2. +1 Adam Lanza

      3. we should start locking up our own government officials first.

        Can we all agree on this even if we don’t have an opinion on this article?

        1. Can’t speak for all, but I sure agree.

        2. Why should we waste space and food on these oxygen thieves?

          1. Because there’s a chronic woodchipper shortage?

  18. 1. I’m a bit surprised at some of the outrage at the girl, it’s not uncommon to see regulars here invite posters they don’t like to kill themselves.

    2. I’d agree that only sociopaths invite people to kill themselves, I’ve always said that here, but it cannot be that as a legal matter, at least under any law that has respect for human volition this girl can in any way be liable for his death.

    1. “1. I’m a bit surprised at some of the outrage at the girl, it’s not uncommon to see regulars here invite posters they don’t like to kill themselves.”

      HJAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Oh my God, you’re so retarded it hurts my feelings. Saying “Kill yourself” on the internet is not the same thing as sending a stream of texts to someone you know at all hours of the day telling them to commit suicide, then telling them how it would be best to do it, helping them with the research, and then talking them back into the car when they’ve decided to get out.

      You are the dumbest creature the human species has ever given birth to. You’re like mtrueman after a frontal lobotomy.

      1. Of course it’s not exactly the same thing, but the sociopathic mentality is.

        1. Jesus, it’s like an effete, pedantic version of a Jeff Foxworthy routine.

          “If you’ve ever said mean things to someone on the Internet, you might be a sociopath…”

          1. We’re not talking ‘mean.’ Telling someone you don’t know ‘please go kill yourself’ because you don’t like what they said about politics is psychopathic, not ‘mean.’

          2. HA! Very good!

          3. I like this game!

            “If you’ve re-upholstered your ‘leather’ couch in the last year, you might be a sociopath.”

            “If you used a StingRay to listen to other citizens’ cell phone calls, you might be a sociopath.”

            “If you keep two, 12 piece, individually hand polished, computer balanced, titanium nitride coated, carbide insert, thin film diamond CVD edged, sets of replacement wood chipper blades in your shed, you might be a sociopath.”

            “If you agree a person who keeps an entirely separate communication system than that required by their job, who subsequently deletes information, and lies regarding how the information was handled is qualified to be president, you might be a sociopath!”

            “If you can totally ignore the law and support a person who bases their interpretation of reality on secret whisperings from their imaginary friend, you might be a sociopath.”

            C’mon! It’s fun!

            1. “If you keep two, 12 piece, individually hand polished, computer balanced, titanium nitride coated, carbide insert, thin film diamond CVD edged, sets of replacement wood chipper blades in your shed, you might be a sociopath.”

              Sounds like someone has been doing their research. Sounds like you know who… I mean how, to chip.

              1. I read a lot.

        2. There is no sociopathic mentality, because there is no serious sentiment there. It’s hyperbole. Just like when we get together and discuss and compare what your mom did and how much it cost, it isn’t libel, because there’s a contextual element. Also, because truth is a defense against libel.

    2. 1. I’m a bit surprised at some of the outrage at the girl, it’s not uncommon to see regulars here invite posters they don’t like to kill themselves.

      And if one of those users actually did kill themselves immediately following such encouragement, you don’t think that, oh, I dunno, the subpoenas might start flying around?

      1. I’d hope not, since as indicative of psychopathy that I think it is to tell someone, even more so someone you barely know in a public forum, to kill themselves, it can’t be said that that constitutes ‘causing’ anyone to do anything. This case is no different because the partys were close: we’ve all had people close to us urge us to do X or Y and not done it, hence one doesn’t cause the other.

      2. They might, but it would be a totally different situation. In this case, she knew he was suicidal, she tried to goad him into suicide through frequent texts, she helped him research how to die, and she talked him back into the car.

        There is no connection between that and saying ‘kill yourself’ without any reason to think the person you’re talking to is actually suicidal. Please – it’s a ridiculous false equivalence Bo is engaged in due to his constant need to concern troll and pretend he’s some sort of paragon of moral virtue compared to the rest of us monsters. It’s narcissistic preening.

        1. Bo had an erection he saw this thread, and there is no need to encourage him.

          1. the second he saw this thread. It was a Bo-Rection, is what I was trying to say.

            1. It’s important to you, so nobody will fault you for rushing in excitedly making a mistake the first time.

            2. Wait a minute, its not as if Irish has gotten the better of him in this argument. Too many times, too many of the commenters here make the mistake of thinking that they have bested Bo when they have not.

              To wit, Bo’s position is more in line with libertarian principles than Irish’s or Playa’s. Just how did the girl violate the NAP? Did she initiate coercion? Did she initiate force? Did she SWAT her erstwhile boyfriend?

              Bo’s position is supportive of agency, whereas Irish and Playa are playing the progressive paternalistic card. The boy was not a retard. He may well have been suicidal but that, in and of itself, does not mean that he was incapable of ratiocinating and understanding the consequences of his actions.

              1. Bo’s opinion was not relevant during my attempt at humor.

                1. You could have ended that sentence at the fifth word.

                  1. I would say I am better than that, but I am not.

              2. You got some reason to believe that the NAP carries some special weight with a lot of the regulars here? This is a convenient place to hang out to many of them, not much more.

                1. Well, it should.

                  BTW, Dan Bongard nailed it upthread as you and I have. Irish and Playa and Crusty – not so much.

                  1. BTW, Dan Bongard nailed it upthread as you and I have. Irish and Playa and Crusty – not so much.

                    I actually agree with Bo’s position on the narrow issue of whether Carter should be tried and imprisoned–she’s at best very confused and at worst evil, but didn’t cross the threshold of aggression across which her conduct would be murderous.

                    But I’m still going to smirk a bit at Bo being taken to task for his lazy and sophistic equivocation of Carter’s conduct with hyperbolic anonymous Internet posts.

                    1. Good points, but, in this case, I think the emphasis should be on the first point.

                  2. LM & Bo, you seemed damned determined that she is spotless in this and no amount of persuasion on her part played into his suicide.

                    That is bullshit. The NAP was definitely violated in her actions toward him.

                    It is also an lengthy stretch to convict her of manslaughter. The facts of the matter may be that there is no appropriate law on the books to address her crime. Some states have ‘reckless indifference’ or ‘criminal negligence’ laws that might be a more appropriate charge.

                    I believe in some states, not reporting a suicide attempt is considered criminal. She fucking talked him back into the car.

        2. I’d argue it’s actually worse to think telling a stranger who has done nothing more to you than comment on a site you like saying things you don’t to kill themselves than someone whom you know well who’s probably tired you out with their going on about killing themselves. The first is so wantonly psychopathic.

        3. “They might, but it would be a totally different situation. In this case, she knew he was suicidal, she tried to goad him into suicide through frequent texts, she helped him research how to die, and she talked him back into the car.”

          Breaking up is hard to do.

      3. Mmmm……rather chippy, eh?

        1. Bo can fuck himself. He’s burned all his bridges with me and I’m not going to pretend his constant need to interject with claims of how morally superior he is should be met with anything other than vicious insults and mockery.

          That’s all he’s shown himself to deserve, and given that he’s the only poster here I treat that way (hell, I’m more civil to PB), I’d say the problem is clearly on him rather than me.

          1. Irish is mad because I call him out on his rather compulsive trend of finding the *real* racists in any story, racists which turn out to be dark skinned.

            And his rather ridiculous defense of Confederate monuments. Though he’s convinced me here: now when I see a larger than life rendition of a Confederate general in full regalia nobly posed wrought in stone I just say ‘surely, surely, that is a symbol of how bad the Confederacy was!’ In fact, these Confederate monuments are *really* tributes to the evils of slavery, I think we can all see that now.

            1. Bo, I go and defend you and then you ruin it by peeing on the likes of Nathan Bedford Forest!

              1. I’m all out of defenses for those who joined up to fight to preserve slavery, committed war crimes in that service and then helped organize a racist terrorist organization, sorry.

                1. Bo, although I am sure that you know that I am the resident anti-Abe scholar here, my last post was intended to be jocular. Even John and I have gotten past our respective differences on the topic.

                  1. Don’t think that because I have little use for the Confederacy that I think Lincoln or the Union were some paragons of virtue.

                    1. Mass murderers usually aren’t paragons of virtue.

    3. It’s OK, as long as it’s not a federal judge.

  19. Reading threaded comments without the reasonable plugin is awful. Reason, PLEASE either turn off the mandatory https, or give P Brooks his wish and get rid of the threading.

    1. I changed to Firefox with the fascr extension, and is working out. Firefox seems to wreak less havoc than Chrome, so that is another benefit.

      1. OK, I downloaded Firefox, which is just as horrible as ever. The fascr plugin is helpful, but scrolling up and down through the whole page looking for the new comments is still irritating. I WANT MY FREE ENTERTAINMENT EASILY DIGESTIBLE, DAMN IT!

        1. Press shift-alt-j to move to the next unread post. I installed fascr today for the first time and keep exploring it. Not bad.

          1. Thanks, grizzly!

    2. I for one welcome HTTPS.

      1. Paul is to Michelle Carter what Adam Levine is to Nicole.

        SMH

          1. Yeah, I had no idea where I was going for that. I have nothing. They are not all winners (we can pretend some are winners).

            1. Sometimes we go big, and it doesn’t pay off.

              1. Tanner Mangum might say otherwise.

    3. Fwiw, greasonable works on Chrome as well as Firefox.

  20. By this logic, half the commentors here could be charged with manslaughter for their comments to Tulpa, Tony, and for some reason, Warty. Be careful, there is an ADA in NY with a boilerplate, fill-in-the-blank subpoena all ready to go!

    1. Damn. Beat to the punchline again. Woe is an unoriginal mind.

    2. I really wish that fucker was here on an H1b so we could deport his ass back to India.

  21. I heard she keeps the souls of her victims in her forehead.

    Seriously, though, she’s a wretched and horrible human being but what the deceased did, he did to himself. She’s not a criminal, just a terrible person.

  22. There is one thing that is obvious here, and that is some people will argue the wrong side of anything.

    1. Which side is wrong?

      1. The one I disagree with.

        Seriously, people are arguing the wrong thing here. Manslaughter is probably not what she did, but she acted with depraved indifference at a minimum, and aggressive malice at worst. Words are words and should not be punished, but I wouldn’t feel bad at all if she spent the rest of her life being encouraged to kill herself by everyone she meets.

        The argument that she should be given a pass because she encouraged him to seek counseling is good IMO because of her subsequent aggressive encouragement to suicide. The balance of the textual evidence presented so far seems to lean heavily against her.

        1. “good” s/b “void”

          What a terrible typo.

        2. but I wouldn’t feel bad at all if she spent the rest of her life being encouraged to kill herself by everyone she meets.

          As I linked above, that’s public shaming, and It’s Not Ok(tm).

  23. Do we really want to live in a world where “Do it, pussy!” is criminalized? Is that what we really want?

    1. No, but this girl clearly acted in a depraved manner. Maybe the Internet should start a 24×7 campaign to convince her to act in her best interest.

      1. I was speaking with tongue planted firmly in cheek, btw.

        1. I’m a bit confused now.

          However, it seems like neither side of this has the full facts, from ENB stating that it’s “highly plausible” that the girl was acting in good faith–really? Can that be at all backed up?– to me saying the girl was depraved based on some text that I haven’t even personally verified.

          Ah well, my Earl Redenbacher stock’s going up, anyway.

          1. I’m a bit confused now.

            All I’m saying is a.) I don’t think her words really amounted to “Do it, pussy” and b.) why are we having this conversation in the first place? Did she turn on the gas? Did she lock the door? Did she take any concrete to contribute to this guy’s death?

            1. Let me paraphrase for you HM:

              YOU CONCUR WITH BO!

            2. I can’t figure out what the motivation was. Some people suggest it was her way of deflecting a whiny kid. But she seemed to be encouraging him with thought, tenderness and love.

              I just can’t figure out what she was trying to achieve.

              1. It’s hard to get into the head of someone like that, but three possibilities stand out to me:

                1. He was so incessant about it that she finally agreed that ending his life was best for him. Young people in love are very amenable to doing/saying things that make no sense to an outside observer.

                2. She’s just stone-cold evil and was amused by having life-and-death power over someone

                3. She’s a narcissist who thought her boyfriend’s death would draw attention and sympathy to herself.

                1. 3. (cont.) Including a 300 comment thread on H & R, featuring such H & R superstars as BO, Irish, yourself, HM, Paul, Playa Manhattan, RBS, Antilles, Hyperion, Tundra, db, and Crusty, and with a civil war cameo (courtesy of BO)

                  1. 3. (cont.) Including a 300 comment thread on H & R, featuring such H & R superstars as BO, Irish, yourself, HM, Paul, Playa Manhattan, RBS, Antilles, Hyperion, Tundra, db, and Crusty, and with a civil war cameo (courtesy of BO)

                    *Blushes*

                    Well, I don’t know if I’d call myself a superstar, but…oh, I see what you did there.

                    1. Don’t be so modest….around here you might be accused of thinking that you are morally superior!

                      BTW, there’s a little bit of the narcissist in all of us, don’t you think?

              2. I just can’t figure out what she was trying to achieve.

                She’s 18. And like all 18-year-olds, she is stupid. And due to her teenaged-induced stupidity, she might have thought she was obligated to “support” her boyfriend regardless of the stupidity of consequences of his choices.

                  1. You strike me as the guy who was not stupid at 18.

                    1. He was smart enough to recognize that other 18 year olds are stupid.

                    2. You strike me as the guy who was not stupid at 18.

                      I don’t know about that…but I managed to make it through with all 10 fingers, all 10 toes, and both eyes. However, I had lost my two front teeth by then.

                1. That is the end state of progressive non-judgmentalism coupled with support for assisted suicide. She learned well.

                  1. “That is the end state of progressive non-judgmentalism coupled with support for assisted suicide. She learned well.”

                    That assumes she wasn’t being a sociopath.

                    1. Sociopathy is the end state of progressive non-judgmentalism coupled with support for assisted suicide.

                    2. No it isn’t. You’re just mashing words together and shoehorning assisted suicide in there because you hate it when people have the freedom to do something you don’t like.

                    3. I didn’t say anything about freedom. I like freedom, but to say that freedom always produces good outcomes is naive.

                      I also am not merely “mashing words together.” Let me state a few propositions:

                      1. There is a trend towards non-judgmentalism in lifestyle choices and moral codes: it is considered rude to declare that one religion (or none) is better than another, it is becoming more accepted that people define their own sexual orientations and genders.

                      2. Assisted suicide is a moral choice, and is affected by the trend of non-judgmentalism, i.e., “Who are you to criticize when or how someone chooses to die, and who are you to decide when and how they go about it or who helps them?” I think this is perfectly illustrated by your own angry response: “you hate it when people have the freedom to do something you don’t like.” See? Judging is wrong. Assisted suicide is a matter of freedom.

                      3. Mosby’s Medical dictionary defines sociopathy: “a personality disorder characterized by a lack of social responsibility and failure to adapt to ethical and social standards of the community.”

                      (cont.)

                    4. (cont.)

                      4. “Social responsibility” and “adapt[ing] to ethical and social standards of the community” become meaningless in a community of extreme non-judgmentalism. A community that refrains from making moral judgments has few hard & fast ethical standards. The NIH in the UK recently delisted 25 cancer drugs: apparently you can put a dollar value on a life, and, therefore, you can decide lives aren’t worth living. It’s just a matter of who gets to decide, and, in a non-judgmental society, the individual certainly has that right.

                      5. Miss Carter saw no “social responsibility” to stop Roy. She had no “ethical or social standards” that instructed her that a decision for a healthy teen to commit suicide was wrong. She was admirably non-judgmental and helped Roy stick to his commitment. You can read assisted suicide advocates preach exactly that. It is impossible to distinguish merely from her behavior whether her sociopathy was innate or learned.

                      6. You were the one who suggested her behavior was sociopathic. I merely suggested her behavior was learned non-judgmentalism about suicide, but when you brought it up, it made me realize that learned non-judgmentalism is indistinguishable in some respects from sociopathy.

              3. Breaking up is hard to do.

  24. Should Spike Lee have been charged with a crime for tweeting out the address of George Zimmerman’s parents? How about if someone had taken the ‘hint’ and killed them? How culpable would Mr. Lee be? Not trying to make any point or start an argument, just curious what people think.

    1. Spike Lee is basically Adam Lanza.

      1. Did you ever see Do the Right Thing, or Crooklyn? He’s worse than Adam Lanza.

    2. I don’t like nearly any type of ‘third party liability,’ but I’d say the Lee scenario is more deserving of some kind of (civil) liability. In a situation where you’re aware there’s people out there looking to hurt someone, that’s facilitating them. It’s similar to watching a man with a knife chase another man, watching the second man hide, and saying to the first ‘he’s in there!’

      But this case isn’t like that. In the end the guy had complete control over whether he was going to be harmed.

      1. As much as I’d like to see that sociopathic twat punished and/or made to suffer, I don’t see how that’s possible without creating a slippery slope. I’d rather see a civil case against her rather an a criminal one.

        1. I’m with you on the slippery slope concerns, but it seems to me that maybe a line could be drawn using factors like 1. whether a reasonable person would or should have been aware of the risk of harm 2. the imminence of such harm if the info in question is provided and 3. the materiality of the information in the commission of the crime.

          1. It’s clear she wanted him to kill himself. But he chose to do it when he was fully capable of refusing.

    3. Should Spike Lee have been charged with a crime for tweeting out the address of George Zimmerman’s parents?

      Yes, but had Zimmerman’s parents been killed, charging Lee with murder wouldn’t be appropriate.

      1. Agreed. If that happened I would place full blame on the killer. I consider providing information to be similar to selling someone a weapon–any crimes others commit with them are on them, not the person that provided the the info/gun.

        1. Really? So if you saw someone with a knife in your backyard and asked them what was up and they said they were there to go over and kill your neighbor and you said ‘oh, you should go around back then, she always keeps her door unlocked’ you don’t think that warrants any, at least, civil liability? It’s just providing information after all…

          I’m pretty big on agency but that’s a river too far. It seems to me if you provide critical and material information knowing it’s likely someone will act on it to do harm you can be liable in some sense.

          1. Your scenario is more along the lines of hiring a hit-man. Providing such specific information (and possibly an incentive) is aiding and abetting and in that case criminal proceedings (or at the very least civil) would be appropriate. I realize Spike Lee was probably hoping someone would see the address and take action, but I’m a pretty extreme free speech advocate. In that case a civil case would seem appropriate (regardless of whether anyone was harmed).

            1. Oh, when I said some kind of liability I meant civil.

        2. Well, except for all those mobsters who went to jail for ordering killings.

          1. Directing and/or paying a hitman to kill someone is far different than encouraging someone to harm themselves since the potential victim doesn’t have to comply. Manson never directly killed anyone but was held responsible for those murders because he had tremendous control over his followers and they’d do anything he asked.

            1. I agree, but I’m just pointing out that the law has provisions for finding people liable/responsible for mayhem not perpetrated by their own hand.

              What the limits of that liability is, I’m not expert enough to say.

              1. As I’ve stated previously, I fear the slippery slope and any chilling of free expression. Should an author be held liable if one of their readers decides to kill themselves after reading about a ‘romantic’ suicide in a novel?

                1. “Ideas are like viruses, Your Honor. Placing the notion of suicide into the victim’s mind was in effect the same as if the defendant had deliberately infected her with Ebola.”

                2. I agree. It’s probably for this sort of slipshod reasoning that I’d never make a competent lawyer, but to my mind the risks of seeing this girl go unpunished despite being a reprehensible human being seems pretty limited relative to the sort of precedent it sets for prosecutors.

  25. Is she being prosecuted under Massachusetts law? The way involuntary manslaughter is defined there is pretty broad.

    1. If she’s out on bail Massachusetts had better be on lockdown.

    2. “pretty broad”

      You obviously didn’t run this through your PC checker.

  26. Can we all agree that she’s just kind of cunty?

    1. Absolutely. Clearly a sociopath. I won’t have any sympathy if she’s convicted of something, but I prefer she be dealt with through a civil trial, or a vigilante. I just get nervous when the government goes after someone for what they said, no matter how irresponsible or vile it is.

      1. Honor rape? Might as well get used to it for when ISIS takes over.

      2. “I won’t have any sympathy if she’s convicted of something…”

        You may later, during your trial, after I kill myself because of one of your comments.

        *screams at top of lungs*

        “LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!!!”

  27. More pleasant OT:

    See what Seattle Teachers get paid (veteran).

    http://www.seattletimes.com/se…..-teachers/

    By Veteran, they mean 15 yrs on the job. I remember when I only had 15 years on the job. Barely. It was over 15 years ago.

    1. The state Supreme Court ordered the state in 2012 to raise education spending, and in August the court began fining the state $100,000 a day for failing to come up with an adequate plan to fund education.

      So the court is fining the state the equivalent of a teacher’s annual salary every day for failing to come up with a scheme to spend even more on their evidently highly-lucred public schools.

      What a scam.

      1. Raising minimum wages astronomically lifts all boats.

        1. Ooops, Holy Constructional Homonymity!

      2. Wait, if the court fines the state, where does the money go?

    1. Derpy’s Brain: I know, I saw it too. Here’s some music.

      I’m sure the label caused a spike in very underage drinking.

      1. They were finding babies hanging out in front of convenience stores trying to get adults to buy beer for them. And the babies totally couldn’t drink responsibly: they were pissing themselves and puking all over the place — hell, even shitting themselves. It was disgusting. And don’t even get me started about their driving.

        1. I took it as an inducement to get pissed and act like a baby. Like I need to be asked twice.

    2. More for me! Muck Fichigan

    3. Founders also has a brew called Dirty Bastard. Why have they not been reprimanded for promoting poor hygiene and out-of-wedlock childbirth?

      1. It’s Michigan. That’s considered normal.

    4. Glad to see Founder’s Brewery get on board.

      1. Drink Founder’s like fucking water, babe. Under the spreading oaks in the groves next to my sweet bowl and certain things.

    5. Believe it or not, the single biggest pain in the ass for commercial breweries is labels. They need government approval, and the process can take six months to a year. Keep in mind that some of these brews can take a month or two to make, but have a limited shelf life. So you come up with a great recipe for a seasonal beer, and you need a label. What do you do if the label is rejected or takes an eternity to be approved? You’ve got to wait an entire year before launching it.

      But it’s all to protect the consumer.

      Yeah.

      Right.

  28. Damnit, Playa. Now all I want is a BLT. Stupid pulled-pork sandwich.

    1. Rape dungeons really work up the ol’ appetite.

      1. So you have to eat standing up then?

  29. About what I would expect from a Massachusetts girl. Ugh.

  30. Late to the thread but on topic.

    I see a lot of quibbling upthread over how much, if any, responsibility she has for his death. Isn’t the prosecution’s case summed up with “Look what she made him do!”

    Bullshit. She may or may not be a sociopath but the boy killed himself all on his own and the responsibility for that is his. Saying otherwise is a damned dangerous road to go down.

    1. I agree. It is a very dangerous precedent if she is convicted.

      1. What of the precedent it sets if she’s not convicted? Roving gangs of schoolgirls talking strangers into suicide… I’m hanging on by threads as it is!

        1. May I suggest rope instead of threads?

            1. You set it up. How could I let it go?

    2. If ‘look what she made him do’ is a valid case for the prosecution wouldn’t ‘look what you made me do’ be a valid defense?

      Whoever is prosecuting this has rocks in their head.

  31. Teenagers today get so wrapped up in their little dramas the the mind fuck expands into it’s own little universe. She may well have been so caught up in their little suicide drama fantasies that she could no longer see the reality of the situation. They were feeding off of one another. I obviously don’t know for sure but I’ve seen some teenage drama spiral out of control very quickly so it wouldn’t surprise me.

  32. If Bitch is a crime, I say “Guilty” your honor

  33. I say we encourage more people to kill themselves. Especially baby boomers. Think of the carbon foot all you fucks could save if you all offed yourself. Insert both barrels of the shotgun. Don’t be a pussy.

      1. How’d that amazing fucking sweet wall of Quin jizz turn out? Humongous ass shit brush slaps from what I remembrance.

        1. Moon, Cy. I sold my moon. Fat pinks (and whites) made the sale.

          1. What a lovely successful maestro.

    1. I’d love to see a fucking entire block of millennials and their hipster brothers and sisters sit on a baby nuke and clear out an entire swath of modern collegiate funky brain. Quit the fucking Tweeters.

      1. The blast zone will be declared artisanal ground-zero, as opposed to an military-industrial complex toxic shitstorm ground-zero. THIS WASTELAND IS ORGANIC!

        1. Artisan mass death. Astronaut Huge Ass Wall Funky Painter Quincy seems to forget that the suggestion included the odd powers associated with radiated quiverings by the trillion ninja stars that flick and fluck for at least a couple of thousand years. Artesian ground zero is sellable ONLY if we patent this shit and then disappear into the Google infrastructure for the next 150 years and then reappear after 150 years of blowing a million gallons jizz to all the babes and sweet chocolate men in the digital universes floating like asteroids in the dark places of pussies and cocks… descending as liberal digital gods in rusty metal apparatuses we stole from that spaceship junkyard. We should plan for this, bro.

          1. I subcontract out our metal work to a local woman. She is charming, attractive, intelligent, and fiercely attentive to any job we give her. You couldn’t ask for anything more. She is also keen that the population of the earth be reduced by six billion on so. She is theoretically magnitudes worse than Hitler, but we get along. I wouldn’t want to work with anybody but her on any given project. What do I do? Slip her a copy of Julian Simon’s Ultimate Resource?

            1. Slip her some of your artistry jizz spilled on a scrap of paper and ask her to lick it. She will fall to the call of Quincy. The rays of the future fall into the prescribed narrows of a gliding tower resonating with the shriek of our digital survival, Quincy. Our atoms will crave the network canyons and living like a homeless duo amoung the silicone and future nanocords will enable us to pull the metal woman into a feverish forelong.

              1. Slip her some of your artistry jizz spilled on a scrap of paper and ask her to lick it.

                She’s married to a slightly shorter man expert in the firefighting arts. I don’t want want to seduce her, I want to convince her that killing 6/7ths of humanity is not a goal worth considering.

  34. CPD getting Body Cameras

    http://nbc4i.com/2015/09/09/co…..happening/

  35. This can’t be real but I’m going to pretend it’s real because it’s so fucking awesome

    http://www.theladbible.com/art…..during-sex

    1. Daily Mail version

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…..-male.html

    2. Awesome bars for her if the world is fair.

      1. Erotica book deals, if she’s smart.

        1. Jail steel, babe. She needs to janked up like a boy, Quin.

          1. Book 2: The Enboyening.

            1. You are polished steel, nigga.

    3. the alleged victim did question why his voice was so high but was told that it was due to his Filipino background.

      “Oh, OK. Let’s have blindfolded sex, then.”

      1. She’s lucky that the only thing that happened to her was some chick got her off with a dido. She could have got her damn throat cut with that kind of judgement.

  36. I mean, what a micro aggression. How are our little snowflakes supposed to handle some idiot telling them to go kill themselves when they can’t even handle the slightest of criticisms?

    Kids can be especially cruel and I think the younger, the more cruel they can be.

    I remember when I was about 5 years in our serene neighborhood in the Simi Valley, CA. My god, I can still remember what super bratty kids were in that neighborhood.

    There was a little girl that lived next door, she was probably only 3 years old as I remember her being one of the ‘little’ kids, and when you’re 5, the little kids gotta be really little. Then there was this other kid I knew from down the road, a real super brat. I mean he was like the Eddie Haskell and Scott Farkus combined of our neighborhood. He was probably 10 years old, for me, a really big scary kid of years so vast it was practically unthinkable how I would ever be that big and old. He used to come around on his bike and ride circles around me on my training wheels bike and tell me what a little piss ant I am and how I can never ride a real bike.

    cont…

    1. Note: back then kids were actually allowed to play outside and roam around freely. It was a real Somalia I tell you.

      So one day, I was outside playing with the nice little neighbor girl when I see Scott Farkus coming down the street on his bike. So he come up and tells us ‘Hey you little kids, you better run and get inside, a swarm of killer bees is coming! They already killed your parents!’. So the little girl takes off towards the house, bawling her little eyes out. And me, I went inside because I knew the little asshat was lying, but I was also terrified of him.

      1. Fuckers probably a cop now

        1. Lol, I was just thinking that.

          1. The crazy thing is the first time he really got me, he told me that the blacks were coming to murder everyone in the neighborhood and this was actually around the time of the race riots in LA. I don’t think I had ever seen a black person before in my life and I was terrified. I ran inside and locked all the doors and I told my mom they were coming to kill us.

            1. Hyp, that is a nice story.

              1. Hyp, that is a nice story.

                I have a zillion more. But every time milfs don’t get nailed in my story, the audience becomes impatient and hostile.

                1. I swing the ins and outs like a restless wind here but find a place to rest your trails and let us in on these verses.

            2. You know, and what made me really start to hate this kid is that once he figured out that he was really tormenting this little girl with his sadistic pranks, he pretty much just left me alone and zoomed in on her. I still didn’t try to stand up to him because for me, he was like King Kong, truly terrifying. He would probably tie me to the back of his bike and drag me through a patch of cactus and rattle snakes.

            3. I remember the first time I saw a black person. He ran up to my mom’s car, washed the windshield, and then threatened to smash up the car if she didn’t give him money as the light turned green. She drove away. Nothing else happened.

              A couple weeks later a white guy did the same thing. I wrote it off as a beggar thing, not a black thing.

              1. Every white child remembers the first time they saw a black face and every fucking black child remembers the first time they saw a white face. I fucking imagine this is the same for lions and hyenas, sharks and dolphins, and Eskimos and polar bears.

                1. So it’s a predator-prey relationship?

                  1. Life is rarely equal, brother. Most hoods have a bent. Whether white, black, shark, or Eskimo.

                    1. I stay out of the hood. Visited a few times, wasn’t my bag. I prefer to be someplace where I can throw a rock in any direction and not have to worry about hitting any windows or people. Where I can shoot my guns and the cops don’t care. It may not be as exciting, but I’ve never enjoyed excitement.

                2. You know, it’s strange for me, AC, because back then everyone called them ‘colored’ people. No one ever explained this to me and I didn’t know what it meant. I was thinking, well they’re like rainbow colored? I imagined a person who’s all different colors. Then the first time I saw a ‘colored’ person I was really disappointed. I thought, they’re not colored, they’re just black! Everyone lied to me!

                  1. I was thinking, well they’re like rainbow colored?

                    Reminds me of a scene in the movie Red Tails.

                    When you get upset, when you get mad, you turn red, right? When you get envoius, or sick, you turn green. When you become cowardly, you turn yellow; and ya’ll got the nerve to call us colored?

                    1. The term colored is a total fail created in the minds of brain fails. Black people first off aren’t fucking black. Black people are so fucking NOT black. And even brown which works isn’t really that FUCKING legit. A lot of black people are tannish Mars dust. And some others are bronzey brownish creamy ochre.

                    2. Black people first off aren’t fucking black.

                      I dunno. I had some friend from Africa who were fucking black. Black as black can be. No white disease in their family tree.

                    3. Well, sure, babe, but… Man, HOW many Somalians were in your high school or mine? Maybe one? I saw like 40 shades of brown and black and then even the fucking gangsters would fucking hurt the super black boys. Not making this shit up.

                    4. I was thinking of my neighbors from Uganda. Those dudes were black. I mean they were fucking black. One of them would make fun of me because of how the sun affected my skin. He’d be like “I go out in the sun to make my skin soft, and you go out there to look like me!”

                    5. Ultra black sarcasmic. well, hmmm….

                    6. Ultra black sarcasmic. well, hmmm….

                      lol, not without some shoe polish!

                  2. Man, brother, I never even ‘heard’ in actual language outside the fucking books the term colored until I was 20. Blacks were fucking ‘black’ or niggers and the whites were nasty killer fucks on Gibbon street you never EVER walked down because those fucking whites would fuck with ALL goddamn humans… super fucking confusing like an astral rubber band wound about the fingers of two disinterested planets for a million years and then put in my lunch box and Hyp’s existence… I posit this for you treading lightly if I am wrong so I fail but shit is weird in the world of race.

                    1. Man, brother, I never even ‘heard’ in actual language outside the fucking books the term colored until I was 20.

                      It’s a generational thing. My grandmother used the term “colored”. My parents used the term “black” or “negro.” Then it became hyphenated. Once someone gets comfortable using a term, someone else decides to be offended by it. It’s stupid.

                    2. I’m not a baby boy and I do think this thing is generationale’, sarcasmicoid, but yea, your post is appropo and even whites could be ‘colored depending on their angle on a Florida beach in brilliant setting sun… amiright? perhaps so

                    3. Being that blacks without the white disease don’t tan, then perhaps “colored” better describes whites who can range from white to pink to tan to red.

                    4. Well, at least whites are the ones who can have a great range of colors in the same person. I can actually get quite tan although I’m pretty European like white when I don’t get in the sun much. Even my Brazilian wife to me looks a couple shades whiter since living here with me in the US for 5 years now. But her ancestors are European also (Italian).

        2. Or a cow. Lots of those bitches turned out be humongous grey-haired 300 pound fisherman of coffins. I grew up like my boy in Toledo and we stayed sexy. Fuck getting jammed up on the continuum with greasy life and veins jammed with shit we should’ve known better than to eat every single fucking after 35. This bitch could kick ass right now. Man, I don’t even give a shit. I’d fucking roll with the best of you. But, since I love you all I have no goddamn interest in hurting my boys.

  37. Lots of comments. Must be a retard on the thread.

    *scrolls up, sees Bo*

    Oh.

    1. The comments indented to the right below “Bo” are from retards too

      1. And a somewhat early Agile Cyborg sighting

        1. At least AC isn’t a retard. He’s just, well, I dunno. Drunk?

          1. I don’t think it’s alcohol, but he’s a good guy. He’s like a psychedelic poet. I enjoy a lot of his writing, I think it’s quite artistic at times. AC is the space cowboy of our times.

            1. I enjoy a lot of his writing, I think it’s quite artistic at times.

              Oh, I agree. I just wonder where it comes from. Then again, some things are better left as mysteries.

          2. Man, you know you call a boy that loves you a retard.

            1. You ain’t no ree-ree. You’re something else. Literally: something else.

              1. Man, AC is the point man for the libertatian cause. Sex, drugs, guns – it’s all good with him. And he puts it all down in a language all his own for the rest of us to sample and enjoy.

                I would say he is our mascot but that doesn’t cover the value he adds here, not by light years.

                1. Agile Cyborg obeys only his own rules. Even when it comes to English.

    2. To be fair, there is a lot of stupid in this thread.

      1. I’ll take you word for it.

      2. I’m just going to stay down here in the lower thread. Doesn’t sound like it’s worth scrolling up too far.

        1. What’s with these triple digit post counts? jesse.in.mb filled me in on the woodchipper thing while I was on hiatus…no such thing as bad publicity I guess.

          1. Yeah, that’s been going on while. I checked AM links yesterday morning. They had been up less than 2 hours and was over 400. I remember when it was fairly easy to read all the comments on threads. Now forget about it. A lot of the larger ones seem to be trolls and those that feed them.

          2. I think it’s a lack of things to comment on. They used to put out more articles.

          3. We’re growing, man. Did Jesse tell you about ‘THE POST’. The post for all ages, the one we no longer speak of?

            1. That’s a myth

              1. always be comforted in the knowledge that all the letters that flow from my account will always be 100 hundred percent reflective of my current reality and from a single human person that loves Reason and its wonderful men and 4 women. Not including the amazing Reason scribe village.

                1. 100 hundred percent reflective of my current reality

                  Beautiful.

          4. I think they need to bring back weekly “Open threads”. They used to be a regular thing, particularly for weekends, but they’d also just toss them in on holidays at random, knowing people would be gabbing.

            I suspect theres a reason they don’t do it. but i think it would be better than always bombing the last post of the day as the default “open thread” of the eve

            1. I also wonder if it’s the repetitive nature of the stories. How many comments do you have in you about immigration or gay marriage or cop shooting dog. Instead of going to each new story to give an opinion on it for the hundredth time everybody congregates at the most recent thread to shoot the shit and share links.

            2. you are a mongrel robot swathing from the yahoo data mines.. this GILMORE with the stars isn’t real- kill’m with ‘t’ billets…. WAIT, internet Europa DON’t PULVERIZE the GILMORE with the stars I think he eats perch on tacos and writes cool shit- don’t kill him… wait, I don’t think UNcool people can be killed? Killed with WHAT!? like piano imaginary lasers from cerebellum spaceology and shit?

  38. It seems highly plausible she wasn’t trying to encourage Roy’s demise out of ill will but acting in what she thought was his best interest. Do we really want to charge teens as killers for reacting imperfectly to loved ones’ pain and mental illness?

    She’s stupid and profoundly selfish, is what she is. Roy wasn’t terminally ill with anal cancer or some other horrible illness, he was mentally unstable and clearly susceptible to suggestion.

    Loving someone with mental illness is emotionally exhausting so in my entirely unprofessional opinion she simply wanted to be done with him.

    Is she legally responsible for his death? No, and I hope she’s acquitted. But I also hope this haunts her for the rest of her life.

    1. But I also hope this haunts her for the rest of her life.

      I doubt it. She’ll probably become a cop.

    2. It’s highly possible that she’s bi-polar or some type of sociopath. I’ve seen people like this and they typically do not feel remorse. The feign it well, but I think it’s just an act. I mean really, sane people don’t tell someone they know to go kill themself when they believe they might actually do it. I hope she dies lonely. That’s a terrible thing to say, but people like that typically do nothing but cause misery for everyone who has the misfortune to get involved with them.

        1. Dude, I grew up all over the damn country. My earliest memories are from there. We moved back east when I was 9 or 10. I lived in almost every part of the continental 48 country except the North East. That 4 years was probably the longest we ever stayed in one place.

          1. HYP the BOOK!

            1. You don’t have an idea, dude. I think I got it from my dad, even though my dad, he’s 85 now and quite eccentric. He’s like one of the undisputed masters of story telling. When I was a kid, my friends were completely fascinated by him. He would tell us stories for hours and never seemed to run out of stories or ever repeat one. We never knew if any of it was true, but it was pretty kick ass.
              To this day, he tells me shit that I’ve never heard him talk about before.
              My dad left home when he was 13 yeas old and traveled the country and beyond, making it on his own, no bullshit.

              1. My grandpa had about a dozen stories and told them over and over, although they were good stories. I decided that if I get to be old, I will make up stuff rather than repeat the same stories. Or better, yet have a more interesting life so I have many stories.

                He died last year at the age of 96. All the way to the end, he was active. He was climbing up on his roof to fix leaks with FlexSeal 10 months before he died.

                We buried his ashes in the woods near a mountain he liked. No one said anything, so I said “a man of many years and many journeys, now returned to the earth.”

                It was the best eulogy I could come up with.

                Side note: He died from an infection caused by accidentally inhaling small amounts of food for a long period. The gag reflex weakens with age, so get in the habit of chewing slowly and carefully.

                1. The sort of good news is he died in his home with one of his grandchildren at his side. And he got to me one of his great grandchildren (my nephew). In his last days, he couldn’t speak, but he could hear, so his children and grandchildren called him to comfort him.

                  There are a lot worse ways to die.

                2. Sorry for your loss, bro.

                  1. Whether a king or a street sweeper, everybody dances with the Grim Reaper.

                    Memento mori, my friends.

                3. Your grandninja died like a boss, derpelogistics.

                4. “I decided that if I get to be old, I will make up stuff rather than repeat the same stories.”

                  “Now that I am old I don’t have as much trouble remembering things that happened as I do remembering things that didn’t happen.” – Samuel Clemens

          2. So… which riots? I assume the first ones…. If you were talking about Rodney King, That would make me older than you, and that’s just not possible!!!

            1. age war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            2. 1965, Watts riots.

    3. “Loving someone with mental illness is emotionally exhausting so in my entirely unprofessional opinion she simply wanted to be done with him.”

      That, or she wanted to bask in the pity accorded “the girl whose boyfriend committed suicide”, and so she sought out someone vulnerable and then guided them to it. The more I read about her, the more damning it sounds.

      It’s sort of the insanely narcissistic feminist companion to victimhood culture — the “I’m really the victim when something bad happened to this man” culture. Hillary sort of exemplified it when she femsplained that women are the true victims of war, because it was their husbands and sons getting killed.

      1. That’s entirely possible, but the part of me with a mostly positive opinion of humanity does not want to think someone that young could be so evil.

        I don’t know what to make of that. I really don’t.

        1. Honestly, it’s easier for me to believe. There’s sort of an innate sweetness in small children — even when they’re being assholes, they aren’t too malicious; however, around puberty, kids turn into fucking sociopaths and spend the next decade or so relearning empathy and basic human decency.

        2. “…part of me with a mostly positive opinion of humanity does not want to think someone that young could be so evil.”

          Evil is most often not an acquired quality. It is difficult to spot early on because the other sprouts are savage little bastards and there isn’t much contrast, but it is there. Believe me, it is there.

  39. How many of you have fallen into deep mental travail? Have you ever been on powerful pills to stay alive, brothers and sisters?
    Have you ever been a close lover or friend to a deeply disturbed?

    1. I experiment quite liberally with supplements and herbal concoctions. Does that count? I’m not depressed or anything though. Although sometimes I feel sad because I don’t have a yacht and I have to work for money.

    2. My dreams are more substantial than waking life.

      1. Ah, so what you’re saying is:

        It’s hard to say that I’d rather stay awake when I’m asleep
        ‘Cause everything is never as it seems

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXbsF7dvQEE

        enjoy your ear worm!

      2. I sometimes have issues sleeping. Active mind that can’t shut down sometimes, I guess. I typically take a cocktail of herbs and supplements to sleep (valerian, passiflora, chamomile, melatonin, etc). Sometimes it works great and other times fails miserably. But sometimes, I also have some spectacular freaking dreams that are way beyond any real life experience.

        I remember this one I had a few months ago when I was experimenting with a new sleep aid herb… man, it was like the worst nightmare I’ve ever had in my life, but it was so fantastically intense that when I woke up, I wasn’t scared, I was just in fucking awe of the intensity of it.

        1. I do the Melatonin occasionally. Used to do Valerian years age. Like you hit and miss. I don’t like taking a sleep aid at all but will on occasion.

          1. Alcohol actually diminishes REM sleep if consumed in any significant quantity. Likely to result in fewer dreams, if any.

            No, not alcohol, Kava. Have to warn you if you ever try it, if you get some really good Kava it will result in spectacular vivid dreams on occasion.

          2. “Alcohol?”

            Yes. Speaking of which….where is my vodka?

        2. I recently had what turned out to be an undiagnosed infection in my leg that was so painful that I was downing Tylenol like M&M’s. (Tylenol was all I had on hand and I had to wait for Monday to see a doctor – fcuking Japanese social medicine) A side effect I got from the Tylenol was a bizarre, unending daydream which I could not ignore and took too much effort to shut down.

          The daydream was a random series of lethally boring images – some still, some moving. Imagine the cutting room floor of a B-movie studio where they were shooting 6 completely different movies – after a class of art students spent a week sifting through the reminants taking away any image that could be considered interesting – then a drunken editor strung the remaining out-takes together into a reel.

          After a day of that I decided that enduring the pain was better.

          1. The craziest dreams I ever had in my life was when I was hospitalized and on Percosets. I am talking neon technocolor crazy shit. They say you don’t dream in color. They must have never had Percs. It was wild.

            1. Not every day but frequently enough I have dreams (night-time while sleeping) that are really bizarre but while I’m in them they seem prefectly normal. Talking fish, coming home to an appartment filled with cattle, scenes seamlessly shifting from one country/time to another…

            2. I always dream in color. The only time I have ever not dreamed in color was during an experiment with lucid dreaming and that was not pleasant.

      3. try it lucid- Quincy. Lucid dreaming is very scary.

        1. Nicotine patches. I call it the beige fairy.

        2. Intriguing, A C. Are you, um, really scared in a lucid dream?

          Let me rephrase: Are your lucid dreams disturbing while you are in them?

          1. YES. lucid dreaming is achievable but mostly only by real dreamers and I am a fail dreamer. I fail at lucid dreaming because I made a mistake years ago and ruined my deep mind with a chemical imbalance with a wrong acid trip that fucked my deep range up but before that I was deep sleep walking so bad as a boy Mom nailed all the screens shut in all the upper stories.

            1. Sorry, man. LD is usually awesome. The trick is to not get excited and have it dissolve.

        3. Heh, I have to tell you about my experience with lucid dreaming. It’s real, no bullshit real. Don’t try it if you are a easily spooked type of person. I had one lucid dream after getting pretty good at it where I woke up from a dream inside of a dream, inside of a dream, inside of a dream, and when I really woke up, the physical evidence I found and my dazed like state of still not knowing if I was actually awake or if I was going to wake up again inside another dream freaked me out so much I haven’t tried it again since. But I still want to try it again.

          1. In My Own Dream

            Shifting gears somewhat, but … Good stuff.

          2. I’m so connecting with Nancy tonight.

            Many many times I’ve had horrible shit happen at night. Many times over the years. So fucking weird and fucked up you have to be fucking powerful to married to me. I have lept off the end of the bed thinking I was a black panther and smashed into the end of the wall broken and crying and my wife screaming and alarmed and eye-rolling. I’ve taken all the fucking screws off the ceiling lights and stacked them all up throughout the entire house with the screws piled perfectly for year after year… I have walked down the road with a baseball mitt and a bat and a jaunt in my step after I opened that FUCKING door when I was 6 and I awoke to hear my mother screaming in my face in horror and fear after I walked 5 blocks at three in the morning to the ball field… so life changed after that. all doors were locked so I couldn’t unlock them asleep at 7. and all windows forever after until I left were bolted or nailed shut… Mom and Dad found me crawling out searching for stars out of a second story window at 9….

            1. I once dreamed a coma for an hour. Wasn’t on a single drug or liquor. Was clean that weekend which might’ve enhanced what came. I fell into a deep sleep and arose finding myself in front of our dresser in a wee light. but my brain was above my body that was plunking about the perfumes and colognes on the dresser- I screamed and my body plunked. I screamed and tried to make my arms move but my arms weren’t connected to my brain… my arms and existence wandered about the dark bedroom for fucking minutes until somehow I screamed my way back into my body and I fell down and slept on the carpet.

    3. “Have you ever been a close lover or friend to a deeply disturbed?”

      Yes. It didn’t end well.

    4. Interesting descriptions.

      I have never had hallucinations, I don’t think, but when I lay down to sleep I imagine things in great detail and can see them in my mind’s eye as clearly as if I am holding it in my hand. My best one is to go through in great detail the measurements, methods, and materials that I would use to build a house or cabin. Or a boat. It plays out in my head like a three dimensional how-to manual. I get a great deal of pleasure from it and the focus is such that I fall asleep before I am finished and it continues on into my sleep.

      My wife has become a fanatical soap maker and so my latest fall asleep project is designing and building molds for her soap. I wake up the next morning, get out the table saw, and before I know it there is the thing I designed in my head in my hands. I suspect that might be some odd form of crazy.

      1. I have never had hallucinations

        Well, hallucinogens will help with that, lol. I haven’t taken any of those drugs in almost 30 years, but they do work.

        1. Holy shit, I forgot about that. Still, that doesn’t mean it isn’t crazy.

  40. This girl was an enclave of confusion. Her emotions twisted and twinged like a horror show at the altar of her lover. She was bathed in the fiery hell of a lover she was lost in and she was vanquished by his death calling. It literally is this simple.

    Mental health is a dirty vicious planet. A very hard place for hardcore pragmatists to grip in the winds of existence. However, I have great experience in these fields and yet I live a remarkably loft life having delved and touched and dived and diced and arose with humility.

    1. Um, yeah. What he said.

      1. the winds of the places filled with promised love my sweet cloud, sarcasmic

  41. This case reminds me of the Tyler Clementi suicide. In that case, his jackass roommate posted video that showed Clementi kissing another man. Clementi jumped off a bridge out of shame of being outed.

    The asshole roommate did not murder Clementi, and was not charged with murder. He was charged with a bunch of other stuff and punished with community service, classes, etc.

    link

    A more similar case would be that of Megan Meier. Her tormentor said “the world will be a better place without you.” Meier hanged herself. The instigator was only charged with computer crimes.

    link

    1. Then there is this guy.

      http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/0…..index.html

    2. Suicide is horribly so fucking real and often man…

      And it gets worse- if you want help to NOT kill yourself. Your insurance ends. No one wants you. Evermore.

      Kill yourself or get help and get cut off medical insurance.

      Fucked up, man.

      Humans aren’t always right in the brain in spite of the fact they make babies and hold jobs but this society doesn’t help the lost enough and I am FUCKING SICK of our AMAZON society that treats humans like metal shards lost and raked off on a weld joint.

      1. There was a discussion last year where someone said that one of the reasons suicide is far more common in rich countries is that the people there don’t learn how to deal with hardship. You’d think a leper in Tanzania (I met a few) would have far more reason to cash in their chips, and yet they don’t. Meanwhile, kids from well-to-do families in South Korea are offing themselves over bad grades.

        I think true suicide prevention is gradually exposing people to greater amounts of hardship, or least teaching them about the hardships others have faced.

        1. In rich countries, there isn’t enough shit trying to kill you for you to want to spite it by surviving. Cussedness is your friend.

        2. Serious question: Any studies on relationship(s) between suicide and religious belief?

          Perhaps if you believe you’ll go to paradise even if you off yourself, what the heck?

          Perhaps if you believe you’ll go to hell if you even think about suicide, you tough it out?

          1. I read a study about that. The gist is being Christian, especially Catholic, or Muslim reduces the risk of suicide. The effect is less for Hinduism and Buddhism,

            On the other hand, I saw a video the other day of a jihadi suicide bomber getting ready. He was smiling and seemed at peace. Freaky.

            Here it is. May cause nightmares:

            https://videopress.com/v/VQfLWWMJ?at=1344

        3. I think true suicide prevention is gradually exposing people to greater amounts of hardship, or least teaching them about the hardships others have faced.

          I’m not sure that’s true. For example, Indonesian/Malay culture has had the tradition of “running amok”, basically, you run around stabbing people while screaming incoherently until a mob lynches you. The stone-aged version of suicide by cop. You go outside of Indonesian cities and most people are still living in dirt-floor huts.

          Now take a look at this map. The West has nothing on Somalia, Laos, and Guyana. Sri Lanka is up there too.

          1. Squinting now…it looks like Lithuanians also love to kill themselves.

          2. I see the highest rates of self injury in former communist countries. Alcoholism?

            1. Wut? That’s a way of honoring themselves!

            2. Slavic gloominess has had a long history.

              1. And communism turned it up to 11

                The artist was a Gulag survivor. He painted them in secret from memory after his release.

                http://www.jamestown.org/about…..ancatalog/

                1. A 10 year sentence was 3653 days. The extra 3 days were for leap years.

                  Soviet Joke

                  One gulag prisoner asks another what his crime was and how long his sentence is. The other answers nothing at all, 10 years. The first prisoner says “you liar! you only get 5 years for nothing at all!”

                  1. If I had the money, I’d make a movie about the gulag system in the style of Roots.

                    It’d be fun to watch the halfwit lefties whipped into a frenzy.

        4. Well I certainly had more hardship growing up than the kids I see today, but I also read everything that Robert Howard wrote. Hey, I was eight, what can I say. There was a theme throughout his Conan works of fighting with your last breath, dying with your boots on, etc.

          It stuck. I would never off myself.

          1. The punchline is that Howard killed himself at 30.

          2. Yet Robert Howard committed suicide.

            link

      2. Work for the government, their insurance will take all comers.

        Of course, there will probably be drug tests, so maybe not…

    3. In both cases, unless I’m mistaken, the person wasn’t deliberately pushing a person they knew very confidently to be a suicide risk to commit suicide, much less guiding them through the actual process of preparation. Yeah, they hurt the feelings of a fragile person, but it’s not necessarily something a reasonable person, absent special knowledge, would expect to lead to suicide.

      Giving an allergic person something with peanuts in it isn’t murder, even if it causes them to die, and I can’t imagine it would normally be manslaughter either — unless you know they are allergic and don’t have access to medical care. Mens rea is particularly important in these sorts of cases.

  42. Don’t ever fucking tell your therapist you’ve ever considered even ONCE offing yourself- they have to report you to police and your insurance. Please spread the word.

    1. Yes sir – this. I’ve thought of it more than once. Never, ever told anyone, cause they’ll take my fucking guns and who knows what else.

      No.

      I’ve THOUGHT of it – not….THOUGHT of it. Well, maybe a little.

      1. Al, you are like the rest of us- HUMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE ALL think about killing our selves in times of depress and melancholy. YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING… and I love you for this

      2. Always remember Almanian. There is porn on the internet. That’s reason enough to put up with the shit. That and bacon.

        1. “When the dog bites, when the bee stings
          When I’m feeling sad
          I just simply remember my favorite things
          And then I don’t feel so bad”

    2. The entire cast of Just Shoot Me needs to be rounded up and placed under psychiatric evaluation. Better include the crew and the writers just to be safe.

      1. Mya has a nice rack. I volunteer to watch her.

      2. Good observation.

        I’m surprised the FCC permitted that title in the first place.

    3. You would see a therapist? Fool. I don’t trust that I wouldn’t, in a weak moment, let slip something that could be construed as representing “harm to myself or others.”

  43. Tell me again how a person could dislike police officers.

    Retired tennis star James Blake slammed to ground and handcuffed by five white NYPD cops outside his ritzy NYC hotel after they mistook him for an identity-theft suspect

    It only took five of them, not wearing uniforms, to subdue attack a man who was not doing anything improper.

    1. Sheesh, those uniforms must be made of PCP!

    2. New Yorkers love their town, Hoary Juggler. They glide starry eyed on the glitz and Sinatra glams on top of the arm-bars and neckties foisting about the humans with violence and broken bones and fucked-up trauma but shit- they are the loving NYPD on all the ball caps RIGHT? Sir, Juggler?
      Doesn’t matter what the subhuman filth does in the NYPD. All that matters is ICE CUBE and I heart NY and the TOWERS fell and tons of money is made in this shitty hellhole of weak humans called all the NY citizens…..

      I fucking think New York is dirty river of lame thinking and awful TV. Their fashion? SOLD by all the cable TV’s? seriously? New York sucks. FOOD? I make everything on grill, pan, oven, broil- perfectly… your NEW YORK food? whatever you have humongous piles of people I hate and want nothing to do with.

      FUCK NEW YORK FOREVER. YOUR ENTIRE CITY IS OLD. YOUR ENTIRE IS OVER_RATED!!!!!!!!!

      1. It is like you have no respect for the Broadway theater. SMH

        1. I have more respect for a Crusty Juggler waging letters like a tornadic witchery.

  44. This story reminds me of a conversation I once had with Mr Manhattan.

    1. Blue balls.

        1. Oh, hello. I don’t remember talking about blue balls. I haven’t been afflicted with such in over 20 years.

      1. I advised you of the unintended consequences of your comments if you were ever claiming self-defense in a murder trial in the future.

    2. You don’t need to google it. Just give me the gist. Was it when I (and a few others) suggested that you take action?

      1. How often do you advise suicide that you don’t remember? Is that how they say hello where you come from?

  45. Human pride is a fucking odd road.
    Its glows and then casts a gold
    burst like a lovely cast in the swath
    of its cities. A city is like the lathe
    on the walls on the inhabitant so
    fucking proud for no fucking highbrow
    littany since all its downcast bros
    fall under the spell of a city sentence
    like a boy thrown into a state of governmental penance.

  46. Both of them are crazy… Roy, you’re the victim but you do nothing right. Commiting suicide because of girlfriend’s words? Maybe your life is not went through but you’re not the only one. And what the heck does Carter think? Now you’re 18, the age doesn’t mean that you grow up? Live and learn about this life. I think there will be some people urge you to kill yourself after reading these articles, now what do you think? But I hope you don’t do anything foolish.

    1. Was this run through Google’s ChineseRussianHebrewEnglish translator?

    2. Careful, bluefox. Keep writing like that, and you’ll drive an English teacher to suicide.

  47. Killing yourself always feels right brother.
    Always. feels more peaceful. the lights brighter.
    death can heal your haggard pains and the lighter
    you feel the deathier you go.. man, I will make fucking new
    words up for this shit and death is a call so specially woo
    but when you kill yourself every fucking piles of left over years
    you forgot that bring parks, and suns, and achievements, and your peers
    who might be few but so very special will always follow you forever
    in the wrinkled byways until the many many many years of weathers
    and storms and loves were found so calculated to be lived
    never end your so special life my friend. you are meant to be thrived-
    not lost and ended.

    Times of those downcast brows pass,
    Times of the crying heart passes,
    Times of the deep alleys and the torments
    Times of the ever setting sun slants like normal
    and light will be restored, my friend….

    1. Breathe in, a thousand generations had it worse than you.

      1. Quin- the thousand brush stroke boy. How many dips in the pallette did our brother Picasso swish to weave at his canvas like a fucked up boy? Picasso was like you and I but regarded greater only because his brush caught a fancy. I could paint a Picasso and so could you.

        1. Picasso mastered academic painting when he was, (what?) 14 years old. You don’t claim you can beat Picasso, unless you can claim you beat Rembrandt, Cezanne, Renoir, Titian, Michaelangelo, etc..

          1. Yea. so could you. they are all cool an fucking couldn’t use goddamn photoshop also…or zbrush or lightwave.

            Put Quincy and Agile in 1750 and give us minerals, oil, and naked chicks and gods…. see what would ‘appen.

            1. “Agile and Quincy: The search for Umber.”

              1. Quincy and Agile- the fucking laser attack of V space lightning atoms on the goddamn wormhole of ADVANCED FUCKING CIVS… We SEEK the SUPRA Civs…
                SUPER advanced civilization penetration HOLES you MUST give us your HOLES, SPACE, YOU HELLISH FUCKING SHITTY FUCKING STAR_FILLED death trap and just give me and Quincy your keys even though we don’t even have a goddamn spaceship… We can FUCKING take a ton of drugs to get us there space…. FUCK SPAXE.

  48. Let me die on the mars, boys.
    Mars is suicide.
    The most mentally transient amount us will never die on mars. ever.
    They don’t want the real monsters on Mars who want to die on earth but can live on Mars.
    Mars is not earth. Mars is a hermite laser fucking village for weirdass serial killer composite minds without the bodies in the basement and in the backyard….
    Can we build our own krickety space ship to get off this modern real extoramous thing? to fly and float out beyound the dizzy spells of the moons, man.

  49. I think Bo and LibertyMike should kill each other. I’d rather have the sociopath bitch post here than either of those two doofs.

    1. She could tell us all to kill ourserlves. That’d be a fun weekend thread.

  50. Sheesh, you know who else kept a conversation about utter nonsense going until late at night?…

    1. Dairy farmers with too much coffee?

      1. Dat’s udder, brudder.

    2. Teenage girls at a slumber party?

        1. Your lovely avatar includes the term SPITTOON… and you state ‘gross’?

          Silent reminder lovely commode.

          1. I’ll take the company of an overflowing spittoon over a bunch of avowed socialists.

            1. Hmmm….. let me think on this…. I shall leave you with your overflowing spit bowls in complete agreement on my mountain of amaze titties…..

      1. “The Imagine Living in a Socialist USA book discussion?”
        When do they get to the mass murders?

        1. My favorite part is around the 26 minute mark where archnazgul Piven says on socialism “we’ll work out the details.”

  51. This bitch just kills me.

  52. Lophophora Civil Rights Yada Yada Tony Fucking Let the Bodies Hit the Floor…
    Harvest of the Real World Humane Steps on the Altar of Got To Grove… Most Hemlock Witches…
    Under the Crosses, man. where The Bowls and Warlocks with The Wallets Survive Under the Owl
    within the Wringing Crosses of Altars behind THE Tall Pines with the Circle of Powerful Men drawing in the Payote Coyote…. Fall Into the Spasms.. Be my Student and Fall into the Seven Lights man under the Weeping moss in the Grove and Under the Screaming Owls

    1. I have lost the sun.

      1. Fucking bullshit generation can’t even rock out like this fucking spaceship bitch.

        Join my ass for a Mushroomhead concert- bet you’ll scurry for a Diet Coke and guess what I’ll be doing a line of cocaine in the bathroom and downing 5 massive bloody Maries and dancing like a goddamn motherfucking insidious indian on the fucking floor living like a goddamn hell horse knight warrior you lovely bitches can only dream of but aside from this frightening bass inquist hellish fuck twinge I do understand that Reason brothers trip on the acids and shrooms and piles of shots……

        1. 4AM, suddenly alert. Best time to fall asleep.

          1. Can’t even move my fingers to orgasms of the adult Muslim woman. My fingers freeze and then worry about fucking overdose.

  53. First- a person who encourages another to pass on is never responsible. Ever. But weird shit outside normal worlds does occur and more often than most will admit.
    Second- if a person is wishes to pass and another encourages this the original person has made their decision previous
    Third- Suicide is remarkably sad but like marriage can we kill prosecutors with imagine guns firing imagined ammunition to stop them? Like an imaginary MMA ass kicking of prosecutors… we don’t condone killing them- just beating the metaphorical shit out of them. Bet, GUARANTEED, Agile Cyborg can kick the actual physical ass of ANY prosecutor in America today. No Question. No dirt tricks. I will, the agile Cyborg, KICK the motherfucking ass of pretty much ANY nasty sniper ass shitty horrible anti-citizen prosecutor in America land on a Fair fight….

    Match me up… I am a light heavy weight with ninja karate experience with tons of street action…..
    I will fuck up ANY goddamn suit nose-up elitiest Harvard/MIT/or wherever the fuck burrow they come from world….

    I will beat their asses down in seconds, bitch

    i should erase this fucking post before i fucking push teh goddman but only because of the edge not because I don’t believe I can’t beat the ass of every single prosecutor in America- which I can….

  54. Reality TV super idea- pit powerful citizens against the government giants who ruin lives for decades…..

    Hey, American proprietorial shits- step up in a ring against the ultimate badass Libertarians who think the LAWS YOU enforce SUCK ASS…

    Total fucking wasteland… Aside from a couple of prosecutors they would ALL fall bruised and broken by people with powerful actuality and a positive recollection of the American constitution….

    The Fucking Law would lose to the Constitutional Muscle… Not surprised…. This is the Obama/Bush world… so fucking weak that balls sag like old lady titties.

  55. LET’S GO DOYERS!!!!
    *clap,clap, clap,clap, clap*

    1. Doyeryeryeryeryeryerssssssss!!!!!

      1. Aaaaah!!! Poop!!!

  56. Agile Cyborg Facts

    This song is based on Agile Cyborg’s attempts at baby talk:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPrtFxd9u9Y

    1. Bitch Derpe monster thread ologistomo trippy money money disco fuck shit scientist….

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn9Vb-EQTKU

  57. Agile Cyborg Facts

    Ozzy Osbourne got the idea of biting a head off a bat from watching Agile Cyborg prepare a Thanksgiving turkey.

    1. So look at this scientist all fucking rolling up in and on the goddamn shit like a goddamn derpelogisticologistic spasmodic fucking Plato… like all stereo on all the fucking Derpewonders of the teh goddamn threads…

      peace out, Agile loves the Super Derpetologist because he is a thread scientist – i must escape into the ass of a tiny wooden ape.

      1. “i must escape into the ass of a tiny wooden ape.”

        There are 7 billion people on earth and only you could write this sentence.

        You’re like the lucky sperm that gets to the egg.

  58. Agile Cyborg Facts

    There is a parallel universe where young, sentient kaleidscopes look into little plastic versions of Agile Cyborg.

  59. Agile Cyborg Facts

    The lyrics of “It’s the end of the world as we know it” were written by Agile Cyborg after he drank several strong cups of coffee and was hit on the head with a seafood mallet.

    Six o’clock TV hour, don’t get caught in foreign towers
    Slash and burn, return, listen to yourself churn
    Locking in, uniforming, book-burning, blood-letting
    Every motive escalate, automotive incinerate
    Light a candle, light a votive, step down step down
    Watch your heel, crush, crushed uh-oh this means
    No fear cavalier, renegade, steer clear
    A tournament, a tournament, a tournament of lies
    Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives
    And I decline

  60. Agile Cyborg Facts

    Some of Agile Cyborg’s friends once dared him to draw on a passed out friend with a Sharpie. The friend now has a full body tattoo and can teleport.

    1. This is getting out of hand.

    2. The down side is that said friend can now only “cross pollinate” with specific camel hybrids.

  61. I’m not sure this will be seen by the author, but what does Kansas have to do with it? I’m pretty sure the Fairhaven in question is in Massachusetts.

  62. Wow. She’s…really, really hot.

    And she’s hella mean, too?

    I’m in love. Time to visit spankmovies. Peace out reasonoids.

  63. OMG! Both of them are stupid. Why you have to suicide because someone tell you do?Bad mental health :/ Feel so sad for teenagers now.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.