Donald Trump

Donald Trump's Immigration Plan Would Cost $200 Billion. Still Like It, Maniacs?

Nativist, Orwellian, cruel... but not conservative

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Donald Trump
Todd Kranin

As I noted earlier, Donald Trump's immigration plan—which calls for the mass deportation of illegal immigrants, among other things—was a hit with certain anti-immigrant conservatives, Ann Coulter especially. I would challenge Trump's supporters on the right to explain how his immigration proposal could possibly be deemed conservative, given that it would probably cost U.S. taxpayers $200 billion, according to NBC:

Back in 2011, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deputy director Kumar Kibble said it costs $12,500 to deport an individual undocumented immigrant.

So when you multiply that cost for the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the U.S., that comes to $137.5 billion.

Another estimate from the liberal-leaning Center for American Progress—from back in 2010 — put the overall price tag at $200 billion. That estimate included the cost to arrest, detain, process and transport the undocumented population over a five-year period.

(The Center for American Progress tells NBC News that it has since updated its estimate, lowering it to about $114 billion.)

That's actually a low estimate, explains Rare's Kevin Boyd:

Just for perspective, the United States government spends $25 billion a year on federal law enforcement. The Department of Homeland Security spends $20 billion a year on current immigration enforcement.

If anything, the costs are an underestimate. Trump's plan also calls for the deportation of the children of illegal immigrants, even if they are U.S. citizens. It would hire at least 10,000 new federal workers whose salaries and benefits have to paid for by taxpayers.

The plan also doesn't take into account the humanitarian costs of uprooting people who, in many cases, have been in the country for decades. Nor does it account for the costs of deporting people who were brought here as children, the so-called Dreamers, and have no memory of their home countries.

In addition to the humanitarian considerations and direct economic costs, there are the indirect economic costs. Cost-efficient immigrant labor keeps the price of goods down, so ejecting immigrants en masse would make everything more expensive—hurting consumers and crippling small businesses that don't have a lot of wiggle room when it comes to the bottom line.

Trump's plan could be called many things—nativist, Orwellian, and cruel come to mind—but conservative, it is not.

Read Nick Gillespie's thorough takedown of the Trump plan here.

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  1. Oh man, I’m super excited for the lawsuits when Trump tries to deport American citizens.

    1. That should be especially entertaining when you remember that the illegal advocacy groups and a good number of judges think everyone is effectively a citizen.

        1. John seriously thinks Obama and the Dems are pro-open borders. He’s insane.

          1. They certainly aren’t open borders.

            They are pro-current bureaucracy, and anti-enforcement of existing law.

            1. “and anti-enforcement of existing law.”

              Excepting the tens of thousands deported because LAWZ.

              1. Turning people back at the border isn’t a deportation, unless you are doing a wink-and-nod with your immigration activists on the one hand, while trying to damp down the nativists on the other.

                1. Does not lessen the tens of thousands deported who weren’t at the border.

                  1. “Excepting the tens of thousands deported because LAWZ.”

                    That’s not so much an exception as it is supporting evidence. “Tens of thousands” = “tenths of a percent”. When the government is interested in enforcing a law, it doesn’t ignore 99+% of violations of said law.

            2. They certainly aren’t anti-enforcement of existing laws.

              They are pro-doing-whatever-it-takes-to look-good-in-the-public-eye.

              If that means *saying* that they won’t go after pot dispensaries, then that is what they’ll do. Did not stop them from going after dispensaries one whit.

              So, as long as they think its prudent they’ll talk a big talk about ‘priorities’ and whatnot. Still isn’t stopping them from deporting hordes of regular Juans – its just that they parade a bunch of photogenic children in front of the cameras and talk about how compassionate they are by graciously allowing these kids to stay.

              But BP is not slacking down on enforcement *at all* for anyone who doesn’t look cute on camera.

    2. Wonder if they factored that into the cost of Trump’s plan?

  2. There’s no way in hell his plan to deport US citizens would hold up legally. The guy apparently doesn’t know the 14th Amendment exists.

    1. Have we learned nothing recently? The constitution means what the supreme court thinks it means, and that’s it.

      1. I don’t think even SCOTUS is going off this bridge just yet.

        1. I would like to agree with you, but I cannot.

      2. “Aroo! Maybe so. But I know a place where the Constitution doesn’t mean squat.”

        [cuts to Supreme Court.]

        1. +1 Headless Body of Agnew

    2. There’s no way in hell his plan to deport US citizens would hold up legally

      I’m sure there were plenty of people who thought that about the Japanese internment camps, too.

      1. Why do you people keep leaving out the Germans and Italians from the reference?

        1. Because of their evil whiteness, DUH.

  3. Back in 2011, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deputy director Kumar Kibble said it costs $12,500 to deport an individual undocumented immigrant.

    So when you multiply that cost for the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the U.S., that comes to $137.5 billion.

    That isn’t fair at all. The cost per deportation goes way down when the government can be indiscriminate about it.

    1. You either have a birth certificate or a green card or you don’t. It is not that hard.

      1. …This is the federal government you’re talking about, John.

        1. He doesn’t care. Reality is not about to intrude on his hot, steamy deportation fantasies. Take that foreign people here without government permission!

      2. And magically, the USG became super-efficient in the eyes of Hit&Runpublicans; in one swoop.

        1. Lord, you don’t know how ironic its is, you saying that about anti-immigration people.

        2. I think John is actually being won over by Bernie Sanders.

      3. This should be called the Identity Thief Employment Act of 2015.

  4. Another estimate from the liberal-leaning Center for American Progress — from back in 2010 — put the overall price tag at $200 billion. That estimate included the cost to arrest, detain, process and transport the undocumented population over a five-year period.

    Considering that we already have ICE and CBP, that figure even if it is accurate is totally misleading. It is not like we won’t spend anything. So the real “cost” of this is the marginal increase which is not going to be $200 billion. And even if it were, since when is $200 billion a lot of money when you are talking about the federal government? What is this, 1977?

    1. And magically, $200 billion dollars becomes no big deal to the Hit&Runpublicans;.

      1. Well, I think the point is more that fixed costs don’t magically become marginal costs.

        1. We all know how good government is at maintaining programs at a low cost. And building vast infrastructure projects on tight budgets.

    2. The notion of the wall is silly, but if Mexico is going to pay for it, then who cares about the cost?

      1. Christ, can you imagine the blown stacks if Trump proposed to make Mexico pay for the deportations as well?

    3. Honestly, it sounds low to me. When was the last time a government program stayed under budget? When was the last time a temporary, 5 year increase in federal employees, programs, and power ended after 5 years?

    4. If the price of strawberries shoots up after this mass deportation, I swear on my life I’ll leave a flaming bag of poo on your doorstep once a month for the rest of your life.

  5. The fine print in the Trump plan allows immigrants to stay if they sign as indentured servants for 7 years at various Trump enterprises such as his casinos, resorts an golf-courses. They are also required to wear trump neckties and use his fragrances.

    1. This is the humanitarian crisis.

    2. And Trump will still find his way into bankruptcy.

  6. Robby you really have to disabuse yourself of the notion that Conservatives give a flying shit about limited government, the Constitution, or fiscal responsibility on anything beyond the level of flimsiest lip-service.

    1. Cases like this make it transparently clear what “conservatives” actually care about. And it sure as fuck isn’t limited government or fiscal responsibility.

      1. Are you saying it’s not fiscally responsible to wall off America?

      2. Clearly you don’t remember how awesome the 50s were, Epi.

        1. Happy Days was a pretty fun show.

          1. No, they weren’t all happy days, Juggler. Like the time Pinky Tuscadero crashed her motorcycle. Or the night I lost all my money to those card sharks and my dad Tom Bosley had to get it back.

            1. I was happy the day Potise lost his virginity, or the time Richie’s brother showed up, or any time Leather Tuscadero did that thigh slap.

              1. Potise? Is that “Cochise’s” cousing or something?

                OH!

                One of the guys in our college fraternity we called “Potsie”. Cause he was so…”Potsie”.

          2. No it wasn’t.

            1. Epi hates any show/movie where Ron Howard gets a starring role and Clint Howard gets some bullshit character part if that.

              1. Can I offer you some tranya, Hugh?

          3. “Oh, and for the record, there was an episode of Happy Days where a guy literally jumped over a shark. And it was the best one!”

            1. “I hope he transfers to hell.”

              1. They really drew that out, but in the end Barry Zuckerkorn made it.

    2. Of course the government’s not supposed to be limited when it comes to accomplishing some goal they like. The state is ignorant and tyrannical… but we really need to get these drugs off the street!

  7. I haven’t crunched the numbers, but I’m sure the money we save not funding Planned Parenthood would pay for this. Also, if we hire cheap Mexican day laborers as agents, that’s plenty savings there. Finally, we just fill in any gaps by conscripting HR workers into ICE service. Dude comes to you looking for work and looking especially brown, cuff him.

  8. You would think a businessman would understand the concept of implicit and explicit costs but I guess not.

  9. Donald Trump’s Immigration Plan Would Cost $200 Billion. Still Like It, Maniacs?

    Paul Krugman likes it.

    1. Back in 2011, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deputy director Kumar Kibble said it costs $12,500 to deport an individual undocumented immigrant.

      So when you multiply that cost for the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the U.S., that comes to $137.5 billion.

      Those are just the direct costs. How about the additional millions of legal people hassled, detained, prosecuted, deported, or whatever, and their lost time.

      But just imagine the savings due to the cost savings of printing a much shorter Constitution!!

      1. It’s a stimulus package for lawyers.

    2. Gotta crank up that fiscal stimulus one way or another. It’s either this or the fake-alien invasion Krugman was touting a while back.

      1. Well it won’t be a fake invasion, but you humans are more than welcome to stimulate all you want. If it makes you feel any better

      2. I think they’ve already convinced conservatives that the alien invasion is real. For a given definition of alien.

    3. Also, all those KKKorporationz have monopsony power in the labor market, so an excess of workers will drive wages down nearly to 0, ergo we gotta deport ’em.

      One thing to be said of Bernie Sanders: being anti-immigrant, anti-foreigner (and foreign trade), and pro minimum wage makes him a rare truly consistent progressive; he is the one guy over there that categorically, rather than selectively, refuses to believe in the law of supply and demand.

  10. A trillion dollars for security,not one penny for freedom.

  11. I’m starting to think that Reason actually SUPPORTS Trump for president, and is running a gigantic false flag operation to point our attention at the handful of actual good ideas he has. Most Americans agree with him on immigration. Call it racism, call it xenophobia, whatever. At least tens of millions of Americans think that it’s insane that we don’t already have a wall at the southern border and that we don’t already have a policy to find and deport anyone here illegally. It defies common sense.

    I despise Trump, and think he would be a horrible president. Maybe his role is to state the obvious truth in such a crude, repulsive way that people associate rational immigration policy with his boorishness and run the other direction. As with so many things in the world these days, I just can’t believe people actually believe some of the nonsense they speak.

    1. Wait, this wall is supposed to go on the Southern border?

      Fuck… well, now I do agree this is a bad idea.

    2. it’s insane that we don’t already have a wall at the southern border and that we don’t already have a policy to find and deport anyone here illegally. It defies common sense.

      I really don’t think you know what “common sense” is if you think it’s even feasible to actually build a fucking wall across the entire southern US. In fact, I don’t think you know what fucking reality is. What color is the sky in your world? Infrared?

      1. If the Chinee could do it, we can!

        1. estimated date of completion: June 20, 3142

      2. You’re right. It’s not feasible to build roads that criss-cross this vast country, either. And then maintain them and police them. It’s just beyond our capability.

        1. You can’t possibly this stupid. Except that it seems you can. Please explain what “ROADZ” (what about Somalia?!?) have to do with building and guarding a “wall” (what kind of wall? Is it made of ice like in GoT?) that stretches for thousands of miles. Please explain how much it will cost, and how much of that cost YOU PERSONALLY will pay if you want this so badly. Please explain the maintenance schedule and costs.

          In other words, show that you’ve thought about this any harder than “keep dirty foreigners out, a wall sounds good!” Oh wait, you haven’t?

        2. Because maintenance personnel and cops are permanently stationed on every road every fifty feet or so. Right?

          Dolt.

          1. Err, pretty sure cops are permanently stationed on every road . Maybe not every fifty feet, though.

            1. My point remains valid. The coverage needed to guard a wall with the intention of keeping people from passing is far beyond what’s needed for officers on various modes of transport to patrol cities or long stretches of highway, since Immigrant A isn’t going to ring up the nearest ICE station because he’s seen immigrant B climb over the wall where there weren’t any guards.

        3. And then maintain them and police them. It’s just beyond our capability.

          With this logic, you suggest that we’re making it so no human being can cross that road on foot without getting caught.

          Your logic would only work if people got on top of the wall, and then ran along the top of it.

        4. The fucking *Soviets* built a wall across *East Berlin* and they could barely stop emmigration.

          They spent *billions* on barbed wire and ammo to build walls across their borders (and maintain them) and still had little effect on illegal cross-border traffic.

          Fucking drug smugglers build half-mile long tunnels under the border, then run electricity, lighting, air conditioning, and a light rail network to make running drugs across easy – and all that is considered a *throw-away* expense, they don’t even really care when a tunnel is shut down because by the time its found its already paid for itself.

          Fucking ‘walls’.

      3. Also, something that the wall fetishers forget is that in many places along the border there already is a wall

        1. Yes, but as Penn and Teller showed us, it doesn’t really work that well.

          1. Exactly, so why should anyone believe that Trump’s wall is going to be any better

            1. Penn and Teller used cheap Mexican labor.

              Trump’s wall would be built UNION STRONG!

          2. It’s because like the EPA, it’s underfunded.

    3. “Most Americans agree with him on immigration.”

      And your source for this is …?

    4. Most Americans agree with him on immigration.

      Wrong. The Gallup poll of a few days past clearly shows most Americans are against mass deportation. More nativist fantasy.

      “Common sense” = “can’t think of a good reason”

    5. the handful of actual good ideas he has.

      I don’t necessarily think you’re xenophobic or racist. Just stupid.

      Because if you think his plan is an “actual good idea,” you are very, very stupid.

    6. AND WHYCOME AINT THERE A WHITE HISTORY MONTH

      1. AND HOW COME I GOTTA BAKE THE CAKES FOR TEH GAIZ AND THEY GET THEIR OWN PARADE BUT NORMAL AMERICANS DON’T???!

    7. I’m starting to think that Reason actually SUPPORTS Trump for president, and is running a gigantic false flag operation to point our attention at the handful of actual good ideas he has.

      1. Nope, they’re really that stupid.

    8. Damn right! While we’re at it we should also start cementing pregnant women’s vaginas shut, to keep those damned people from the future from comin’ out and takin’ our jerrrbs!

  12. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to hold a lottery?

    Say a 5 billion purse and all those that turn themselves in get a ticket. Top prize is like 10 million and there are a lot of prizes. The catch is you only get it if you’re not in the country. It’s a staged payout month-by-month and will permanently stop anytime you’re found in the country illegally.

    So all the ones who didn’t win are shipped off, disappointed of course but they knew the risks of reporting. But the ones who win go willingly because they want their prize.

    ——————

    This is just a cost-saving measure I thought might work by aligning incentives. Illegal immigration doesn’t cause me any heartburn. It’s the “democracy”, not the migratory herds of laborers that’s the problem.

    1. It’s the “democracy”, not the migratory herds of laborers that’s the problem.

      Why? Immigration does not increase the welfare state.

      1. Voting is horrible. It’s a way for people to get what they want without having to pay the full price. Plus it enables just the absolutely worst sorts of people.

        1. Democracy is awful. What this has to do with immigration I know not.

          1. Mo voters, mo problems.

            1. On the other hand more people more potential customers and lower cost labor for businesses…so it’s more of a win really.

            2. Nope. Cato did the study: no correlation between the size of the welfare state in 2011 and immigrants in 2014.

              America’s worst expansions of government were when the immigrant population was low.

              1. Correlation = Causation

                Forget it, it’s Cytofascistown.

                1. Wow. Just wow. The lack of awareness…stunning…majestic in its perfectness of fail.

              2. Probably because people tend to come here most when our economy is doing best, i.e. when the private sector is doing best and when the state’s role in it is proportionally at its lowest.

                It’s hard to avoid the fact that the vast majority of illegal immigrants probably will vote for the kind of policies that expropriate property from others already here to be redistributed to them. The GOP may be largely to blame for that for being anti-immigrant just to be anti-immigrant, but that doesn’t change that we should still insist that the price of more open borders be a reduction in welfare state services.

    2. It wold be a lot cheaper just to remove the limit on ‘low-skill’ visas (from the current 10ish k *worldwide* cap) and issue temporary residency permits (3/6/9 months say).

      But that wouldn’t require the government to *do* anything, no ‘special programs’ needed, just for the government to get out of the way.

      1. That is far too simple and doesn’t involve a useless wall. FAIL.

        1. The DJT Concrete Co. doesn’t think the wall is useless. Nor does the DJT Rebar Manufacturing Co. Or the DJT Concrete and Rebar Transportation Co.

          1. A wall would be ‘uuuuuuuuuuuuge. Literally ‘UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.

            /Trump Voice

  13. Don’t expect the Border Boner crowd to give a shit about the freedom and wealth that will have to be sacrificed on the alter of their own insecurity and neuroses. They. Don’t. Care. They’re basically psychotic at this point. Thank God most Americans disagree with this small hateful idiot minority. Maybe Hillary really will win on the back of amnesty.

    1. The Border Boners like Ann Coulter think that the illegals will be replaced by teenagers who have a high unemployment rate. Not at minimum $7.25/hour plus Obamacare/OSHA/etc they’re not.

  14. Oh and the immigration insanity gripping many US conservaderps like the Rage Virus of 28 Days Later is the biggest reason why the Libertarian Moment (TM) is at least on hold and why the TP is a spent force for limited government.

    1. It’s not some unique brand of insanity; actually it is precisely the same stupidity that afflicts progressives: the failure to grasp that the law of supply and demand applies to labor markets, meaning decline in prices from an increase in the labor supply offsets the decline in wages.

      I tend to think stupidity more common than malice, so I genuinely think that anti-immigrant people are not widely motivated by racism. I think they are motivated by the same mental short circuit that leads other people to oppose free trade or support minimum wage, the lack of understanding of basic labor economics. Jerbzzzz!!!

    2. Please. The Tea Party was never for limited government. It only wanted to limit the government it did not like.

  15. Trump trumpets trump, while the trumpers trump down Trump street trumping trumpity trump trump. For fucks sake, stop with #trumpacolypse

    1. Don’t be a Trump frump!

      1. “Trump grump”, chump. Stump the rump pump clump bump.

        1. My uncle lived in Pahrump (NV). True story.

  16. . . . deputy director Kumar Kibble said it costs $12,500 to deport an individual undocumented immigrant.

    Yeah, but 2/3 of that cost is for all that ‘due process’ bullshit.

    Its pretty simple to do this cost effectively. Simply go out to the places all them illegals hang out and work at and round people up. Make them provide prof of citizenship. If they ain’t got it, put ’em in a van and drive ’em to the closest border town in Mexico. Don’t matter if’n they’re from Cuba or Puerto Rico or one of them terrorist state none either. Illegal is illegal.

    Sheriff Arpaio figured this out years ago.

    1. deputy director Kumar Kibble said it costs $12,500 to deport an individual undocumented immigrant.

      But what does Harold say?

      1. no, WWNPHD.

        1. Oh, that’s easy.

          Smoke something that some stranger handed you and see where that leads.

          Granted, 9 out of 10 times it will lead to waking up facedown in a gutter with birdshot in your chest and no memory of the last 3-4 days . . .

    2. So just go find a group of brown people abd say papaers please? Fascist ass you are.

      1. He’s being sarcastic.

      2. What happens when sarcasm hits too close to the truth…

      3. Look, the only way we’re going to end the scourge of ‘undocumented immigration’ is by instituting a nation-wide *mandatory* ID – producible on demand.

        Also, we need to get rid of this ‘no checkpoints’ thinking. We are exposed to too much danger from drugs, crime, and terrorism to not give police this very reasonable investigatory tool.

        especially when, with modern technology, you can RFID the ID and place automated checkpoints that do facial recognition while scanning for RFID passes and matching them up. This is all leveraging the power of capital without having to increase the number of police on the payroll.

        I also think that internal travel permits should be implemented. There is absolutely no reason why emmigrants from one state should be allowed to freely take the jobs of citizens in other state. This just drives down wages and is, really, setting up a race to the bottom.

        1. +1 area nativist erection

        2. Look, the only way we’re going to end the scourge of ‘undocumented immigration’ is by instituting a nation-wide *mandatory* ID – producible on demand.

          You mean like a driver’s license or social security card?

          This is why the outrage and throat-clearing over Trump’s proposals is so silly. We’re ALREADY spending hundreds of billions on ICE and public services for immigrants. We ALREADY have a massive police state that invades our privacy on a daily basis. We ALREADY have to provide an ID for things like renting a home, driving a car, or opening a bank account, and the police can demand that from us any time they wish.

          So yeah, it’s no big surprise that Trump is proposing these things, because what are the Democrats going to do–dismantle any of it? Bullshit, not when they can employ those same institutions and tactics to use as weapons against their own political enemies. So they’re basically left with trying to say that these are racist policies, and that might work–unless a bunch of people decide to actually embrace the charge and say, “fuck you, I don’t care anymore,” because left-wing race hucksters have increasingly leveraged power over them for the last four-five decades using that word to try and shut people up.

          1. “This is why the outrage and throat-clearing over Trump’s proposals is so silly. ”

            Not if you actually care about freedom it isn’t. The fact that we already have horrible policies does not justify expanding them or apathy to their expansion.

            1. The fact that we already have horrible policies does not justify expanding them or apathy to their expansion.

              Which is irrelevant to the fact that they’re already in place and won’t be dismantled any time soon. Rail against them all you want, they’re not going away barring a societal collapse.

              1. Well the smart thing to do would be to make them an offer they can’t refuse: agree to let immigrants in and legalize the illegals already here, on the condition that the welfare state be wound down considerably to avoid skyrocketing costs. Many (perhaps most) illegal immigrants would support this as what they want most is legal status and freedom of movement. This would force progressives to veto amnesty and risk alienating the immigrant demographic, or accept it, but in turn give up one of the things that gives them such a hold on the poor immigrant population (the ‘immigrant welfare state’).

                1. Well the smart thing to do would be to make them an offer they can’t refuse: agree to let immigrants in and legalize the illegals already here, on the condition that the welfare state be wound down considerably to avoid skyrocketing costs.

                  Fuckin’ LOL–try proposing something realistic, not a fantasy you came up with between bong hits.

          2. No, no, no. Nothing like the drivers license or even a SSN.

            I’m talking a *unified* design, issued only by the federal government, tied to *everything*, including work and travel.

            We don’t have a massive police state – don’t be ridiculous – that’s *why* we have this massive problem with illegals committing more crimes when they get here.

            1. You *don’t* have to provide ID – a rental company may want it, but its not *legally* required. That needs to change.

            2. When I say ‘demand’, I mean DEMAND. WITH MENACES if necessary. *Legal* penalties, up to imprisonment for not being able to produce a valid ID to law enforcement *whenever* they demand it – not just to a bank clerk when you open an account.

            3. Checkpoints and internal monitoring. Biometrics. Giving the police the RIGHT to search on demand, any place, at any time.

            If you guys are serious about eliminating illegal immigration, this is what you’re going to have to do. If you’re not willing to do this then . . . I don’t know – are you trying to hide something? Its not like these measures will hurt anyone who is honest and doesn’t commit crimes.

            1. I’m talking a *unified* design, issued only by the federal government, tied to *everything*, including work and travel.

              That’s just goal-post shifting.

              We don’t have a massive police state – don’t be ridiculous

              Funny, based on the rhetoric in the comments here over the last few years, one would get the exact opposite impression.

              If you guys are serious about eliminating illegal immigration, this is what you’re going to have to do.

              Not true. Immigration of all kinds dropped to nil during he 1940s.

              1. “Not true. Immigration of all kinds dropped to nil during he 1940s.”
                Haha. Did you, like, forget about that big war that was going on? And the fact that the US had just interned hundreds of thousands of immigrants from one of the countries with most immigration to the US (that it was also at war with) might’ve also been a factor there. So I guess we should start a war with Mexico, intern a bunch of immigrants, to scare their kin away from immigrating?

                Keep in mind that it was when US postwar recovery was well underway that immigration from Latin America started to take off.

                1. Haha. Did you, like, forget about that big war that was going on?

                  Haha. Did you, like, forget that it didn’t last the whole decade?

                  And the fact that the US had just interned hundreds of thousands of immigrants from one of the countries with most immigration to the US (that it was also at war with) might’ve also been a factor there.

                  Correlation equals causation? Most Japanese immigration took place between 1900 and 1920.

                  Keep in mind that it was when US postwar recovery was well underway that immigration from Latin America started to take off.

                  A booming postwar economy attracts migrants. You’re not exactly breaking new intellectual ground here.

              2. In reality, of course, Mexicans routinely came to the United States to work during the 1940s.

                1. In reality, of course, Mexicans routinely came to the United States to work during the 1940s

                  Which doesn’t change the fact that immigration rates during the 1940s were practically nil, especially in comparison to today.

                  http://web.mit.edu/cis/fpi_immigration.html

          3. “You mean like a driver’s license or social security card?”

            Your driver’s license isn’t mandatory, and your social security card isn’t producible on demand. So no, not like a driver’s license or social security card.

            “We’re ALREADY spending hundreds of billions on ICE and public services for immigrants. We ALREADY have a massive police state that invades our privacy on a daily basis”

            And your response to this is “more, please”. That’s the problem.

            1. Your social security card isn’t producible on demand.

              It is if you want a job that’s not completely under the table, or a loan of any kind.

            2. And your response to this is “more, please”. That’s the problem.

              Don’t put words in my mouth, dipshit.

              1. That you aren’t bright enough to understand what you are asking for is not my problem.

                1. That you aren’t bright enough to understand what you are asking for is not my problem.

                  Funny, because I never actually said that these should be expanded. That you’re deliberately ignoring current domestic realities isn’t my problem, it’s yours.

  17. I have a theory that T.D. is ‘running for prez’ for the simple reason that he at least understands that no one sees him as anything other than the shallowest of thinkers and hopes to show them!
    Well, he is showing them; better to keep your yap shut and have people think you’re not real bright rather than open it and prove them correct.

  18. So Trump has plans another idiotic government program? What a shock!

    1. …has plans *for* another idiotic government program…

  19. I’m still in favor of the Kinky Solution:

    Escrow a bunch of money for every provincial governor in Mexico that has a US border.

    Every time we catch somebody who crossed illegally in his section of the border, we deduct from the escrow.

    Every year, the remaining amount gets transferred to an offshore account of his choosing.

    1. You and your kind can fund it yourself.

      1. Well, we know that “you and your kind” can’t, so….stands to reason.

      2. “your kind?” That’s racist.

    2. Nah. Just track how much we spend on welfare for illegals, and charge it to their nation of origin. Chip any immigrants, legal or otherwise, that commit crimes that are serious enough to deport, but not enough to imprison, so we can easily find them and kick them out again.

      1. Do we get to deduct the productivity increases and increase in GDP these people bring also?

        1. No, we keep it. Suck it, random foreign governments.

    3. Better idea: we let immigrants come in as they please, but we require the Mexican government to cover all public costs exceeding what Mexican immigrants pay in taxes, such as by taxing remittances sent back to Mexico by immigrants. What Mexican government doesn’t pay, we recuperate by having raiding parties go south of the border and steak anything that isn’t bolted to the ground, to cover the cost.

      Then, the Mexican government can either 1) pay the cost or 2) seal off its own border. Or they can prevail upon Mexican Americans to vote for politicians who will cut welfare spending so that no net cost is imposed at all.

  20. FreedomWorks and Norquist and the like need to create and fund a public campaign to vilify border security. Demonstrate how secure borders = oppression. Make ICE as liked as ISIS. As the Gallup poll made clear, the rational side has more or less won the amnesty struggle. Now it’s time to pound in the other nail.

    1. I’ll listen to you about immigration when we build express rail from the Rio Grande to Windsor and Fort Erie, Ontario and Canada takes all the Mexican ILLEGAL immigrants.

      Cause they’re such an unalloyed good, ya’ll want ’em up north, right?

      RIGHT?

      Get back on your side of the border and worry about your toque and poutine supplies, you
      Bob-and-Doug-lookin’ US Wannabe.

      1. Yes, they are pretty much all good and yes, I want them hear.

        You’re basically admitting you can’t come up with real arguments. I’ve seen the idiocracy and it is you.

  21. PS OH GOOD, ANOTHER TRUMP ARTICLE. THANKS, RICO AND REASON

  22. Since when do candidates keep campaign promises?
    Trump passes the “piss off all the right people” test and that is the best we can hope for. Sad to see reason shilling so hard for Jeb! This RINO-Reason makes me nostalgic for the old cosmotarian magazine we knew and loved. It’s worse than when Details became a shitty men’s fashion magazine back in the early 90s.

    1. Are…are you saying “things were better when Postrel was running Reason”? Cause I think that’s what you’re saying..

      I’M DRINKING! I’M DRINKING!

      1. Infinitely so.reason was, I shit you not, a libertarian magazine when Postrel reigned.

    2. “Sad to see reason shilling so hard for Jeb”

      Sad to see you’re as into making shit up as ever.

      Can the Hit&Runpublicans; please just…leave? We get it: you’re nuts, and you’re angry that Reason isn’t nuts in the same way as you.

      1. Reason is all in for JEB! They’re not even hiding it anymore.

        1. Not sure if this is sarc or not, but I’m pretty sure if any of the Reason Writers support anyone its between Rand Paul and Gary Johnson again. I’m pretty sure the only positive thing they’ve said about Jeb is his stance on immigration reform.

      2. Reason is all in for JEB! They’re not even hiding it anymore.

  23. If it costs $12,500 to deport one person, then they are doing it wrong.

    1. That’s my *point* (see above).

      Constitutional protections only apply to *Americans*.

    2. Each American citizen you deport is a zillion-dollar lawsuit just waiting to happen. Illegally deported green card holders too, to a lesser extent.

      I get the impression Trump’s supporters think we’ll just round up all the people with Mexican accents and summarily kick them out. Heh, no.

      1. A surprising number of people with Mexican accents are US citizens.
        But then, they probably got their citizenship as anchor babies, so maybe we should make that no-birthright-citizenship thing retroactive and retroactively cancel the citizenship of anyone who still speaks Spanish as a first language.
        Sure, it will catch a few legitimate Americans, but you know, if you want to make omelettes …

        1. See? Hazel understands.

          You want to win the War On Illegal Immigration then you have to be willing to do what the other guy won’t countenance.

          No half-measures – just a full out assault on illegals that simply will not end until this country is pure again!

          Secure the borders – all of them. If you can’t cross a county line without having to go through a checkpoint then illegals will be concentrated in the border areas and we can move to sweep the interior clean.

          Demand a national ID from them – if you’re an American you would be *proud* to have one to show that you are a citizen – and if you don’t have one, hammer ’em. Only illegals and shiftless hippies don’t have an ID right now anyway so this will provide no extra burden to honest people.

      2. Each American citizen you deport is a zillion-dollar lawsuit just waiting to happen. Illegally deported green card holders too, to a lesser extent.

        It absolutely is not.

        1. There would be very few ‘mistaken’ deportations anyway – that’s what the federal ID and database is for.

        2. Sovereign Immunity prevents citizens from launching lawsuits against the government for petty mistakes.

        3. Citizens will need to be willing to make some sacrifices in the short term to gain long-term security.

  24. Ever heard of economies of scale, Robby?

  25. Solving immigration is easy and it wouldn’t cost a dime. End the War on Drugs to stop the gang violence then make the southern governments respect the individual civil and property rights of their citizens so they can build a life there instead of coming here.

  26. “Nativist, Orwellian, cruel… but not conservative…”

    Robby, you miserable hack. You use “conservative” elsewhere to mean right-wing, and this is a nigh perfect, right-wing plan. It is intrusive, it enlarges government to enforce a right-wing viewpoint and policy, it increases the budget deficit…. If you prefer, how is this NOT a conservative plan?

  27. “Nativist, Orwellian, cruel… but not conservative…”

    Robby, you miserable hack. You use “conservative” elsewhere to mean right-wing, and this is a nigh perfect, right-wing plan. It is intrusive, it enlarges government to enforce a right-wing viewpoint and policy, it increases the budget deficit…. If you prefer, how is this NOT a conservative plan?

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