Sex Work

Opening a Gym in New York? First Wait Six Months and Spend $50K To Prove You're Not Really Selling Sex.

A 1978 anti-prostitution law creates pointless red tape.

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Exercise studio
© Ariwasabi | Dreamstime.com

As Crain's New York Business recently reported, exercise-studio operator SoulCycle is experiencing a regulatory headache as it tries to expand in the Big Apple: It has to prove to the city that its health clubs aren't really brothels.

As reporter Joe Anuta explains,

And not just SoulCycle. All gyms, spas, martial-arts schools, massage studios and health clubs looking to set up shop in New York City must get something called a physical culture establishment permit, which was created in the late 1970s to stem the rise of seedy massage parlors in Times Square.

And getting these permits isn't cheap:

The de Blasio administration estimates that the process of obtaining a physical culture establishment permit can take nearly six months and cost up to $50,000 in fees and payments to lawyers. Not only does the city's Department of Investigation run a limited background check on the applicants, but the obscure city agency that processes the applications—called the Board of Standards and Appeals—also takes into account the opinions of neighbors. At several public hearings, they can inveigh against a company in a formal process few businesses outside of bars or liquor stores are subjected to.

City Planning Commissioner Carl Weisbrod, who advocated for this law back in 1978 when he was the director of the Midtown Enforcement Project, is reconsidering if the physical culture establishment permit is still necessary.

"[W]e are working with our sister agencies to determine whether it should be eliminated or modified," a spokesperson for City Planning told Crain's.

Why is it the government's business anyway if people are getting paid to screw in the locker room?

Click below to watch a recent story by Reason TV's Zach Weissmueller that meticulously lays out the case for why we all should have the right to buy and sell sex:

NEXT: Success Academy Posted Its Latest Test Scores. The Results Are Astounding.

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  1. Missing the alt-text opportunity on this probably won’t haunt you until you die.

    1. Alt-text suggestion:

      “Clearly, these are whores.”

    2. CAPTION:

      Submit proposed Alt Text to the New York Alt Text Oversight Board 10 months in advance of the desired posting date. The board will respond approving or denying your proposed Alt Text. Denials may be appealed to the New York Alt Text Oversight Board Oversight Board.

      1. My wife was a m??se.

        1. My sister was once bitten by a moose.

          1. Can a Muslim eat the leg of a moose (a moose-limb)… Are moose-limbs “halal”… Or would such eating constitute cannibalism? A moose-lim eating a moose-limb == cannibalism? Prove or disprove!

            PS, I hope that you and your sister and your entire family bit that moose right back, and ate up every scrap of it!

  2. World Pipe Band Championship – Grade 1 Results:

    1 Shotts and Dykehead Caleddonia (Scotland)
    2 St. Laurence O’Toole (Ireland)
    3 Inverary and District (Scotland)
    4 Field Marshal Montgomery (Northern Ireland)
    5 Simon Fraser Univ (Canada)
    6 Scottish Power (Scotland)

    SHOCKER! I know several of the Canucks playing with Shotts. Good for the Brown boys 🙂 Wow – it’s been years since Shotts won. They’re baaaaaaaack!

    1. The fact that you know all of this is disturbing, (;

      1. Dude, it was just broadcast LIVE! on the BBC over the interwebs. Just saw a whole bunch of my old buddies on TEEVEE.

        My band was on the BBC “Pipeline” programme back in….2001? 2002? I remember sitting at the Todd Bar at Strathclyde Univ Sunday morning…”Holy fuck – THAT’S US!” Pretty cool.

        #BagpipePlayerLivesMatter

          1. You are correct, bagpipes are double-reed instruments.

          2. He also squeezes your bag while he blows.

            1. No, no, no! I squeeze my OWN bag while I blow. Still using a Ross – most of the top guys have moved on to Gannaway. I’ll do that if I start playing with a band again.

              /bagpipe brand awareness

              1. She blows Gannaway
                Baby That-a-Way

                /80’s commercial

        1. There’s just something about dudes in skirts that doesn’t do it for me.

          But I like the one name:

          Shotts and Dykehead Caleddonia

          And here’s some mucic with bagpipes that I can respect:

          Bon Scott, only guy ever who could make bagpipes cool

          1. I like bagpipey sound in “In a Big Country”, even if it is guitar.

          2. Bon Scott played in a pipe and drum band at some point before his time in AC/DC. He was a drummer. According to this article, he learned for that song.

            1. Fuck, he learned *bagpipes* for that song.

    2. Goddammit! I had a Shotts and Dykehead Caleddonia, St. Laurence O’Toole, Field Marshal Montgomery boxed trifecta!

      Damn you FMM!

      1. I know, right?

        Field Marshal misses out on 5 in a row AND has its lowest finish in a championship in…forever!

        Bagpipe trivia…

        1. Noted = Matt Welch’s Lesser-Evil-Twin is an accomplished bagpiper

          1. His evil knows no bounds, then.

            The horror.

  3. I’m getting to the point where I’m believing that keeping prostitution illegal is probably for the best.

    Imagine “legalizing” prostitution in this day and age. It would end up overpriced, overregulated, and controlled by a cartel of unionized, protected cartels.

      1. Does Wayne Brady need to choke a bitch?

    1. Would suck even more for the prostitute once the full force of public accommodation laws were brought to bear. Getting fined for refusing to bake a cake pales in comparison.

      1. Funny and not funny at the same time :/
        Good point.

      2. All gyms, spas, martial-arts schools, massage studios and health clubs looking to set up shop in New York City must get something called a physical culture establishment permit, which was created in the late 1970s to stem the rise of seedy massage parlors in Times Square.
        .
        Martial arts schools? Kinda gives a whole new meaning to Mr. Miyagi’s “whacks on, whacks off” routine, don’t it?

        1. I live next door to one in Brooklyn. It’s all kids, though. … Eeeeeew.

    2. Attractive prostitutes would be beaten with a stick by a trustworthy government official to cancel out their unfair competitive advantage.

      1. So, IOW, pay the fugly prostitutes to sit around all day and do nothing. Don’t we already have a program that covers that?

        1. the Board of Standards and Appeals?

      2. So you’d have to fuck them on a Procrustean bed?

  4. Are people really trying to start businesses in NY? In NYC?

    Morons.

    1. The crazy thing about NYC is just the price of everything, period. Everything is overpriced to start with because of all the regulations and the sky taxes the businesses have to pay, and then there are taxes on top of that, and taxes on top of the taxes, and taxes upon top of the taxes upon the top of the taxes. Well, you get the point.

      The last time I stayed there, it was $350 for a tiny room. I was super tired after we arrived and so we ordered room service. The food itself was $39, but with the room service fee, and the 2 other city taxes on top of it, it was $80. Then the guy stood there waiting for a tip. No free internet in the room, that wound up being $29. I went down to the lobby to get a beer. A 12 oz heineken was $12.

      And then on top of all that, there were NewYorkers there. Obnoxious pricks.

      I fucking hate that shithole.

      1. DONT FORGET ALL THE MOUTHBREATHING YOKEL TOURISTS OMG THE WORST

      2. How does ( and why ?) the average Joe make it there ?

        I guess if you can make it there you can make it anywhere.

        1. Subsidized everything. Because if not, how? And why? I was watching one of the those home shopping shows on HGTV (my wife likes for me to watch with her), and there was one of those rare episodes where no one was gay. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I just noted how rare it is. Anyway, this couple had an apartment in Manhattan. It was like 600 sq ft, and the kitchen was so fucking small that they had to store their cookware in the oven. It was if I remember correctly, $2850 a month. This to live in a place where all of your neighbors are very likely the most insufferable assholes on the planet. Unless you live in Boston, that is, but still a lot more expensive.

          FUCK.THAT.SHIT.

          1. and there was one of those rare episodes where no one was gay.

            If I were the kind of person who would unironically type “lol”, at this moment, I would.

          2. “‘Subsidized everything.“”

            uh, no. Not unless you’re genuinely poor, and even then, not so much

            “if not, how? And why?”

            Because that’s where a lot of the highest-paying financial & media-related jobs are, and also where the majority of the most significant opportunities in a lot of creative fields exist.

            Also, there is a not-insignificant number of people who actually prefer the lifestyle that means you don’t spend any time indoors at home other than to occasionally sleep… and never need a car to go out to dinner/drinks whatever, anytime.

            also, you can live in NYC pretty cheap and enjoy reasonable quality at the same time. it requires experience w/ the nooks/crannies of city life that tourism doesn’t tend to impart.

            1. When I was looking for a place to move to last time, Austin TX, DC/Baltimore, and even Atlanta all blew away NYC for the most lucrative career opportunities. But I’m in IT solutions, so it might be different in other fields. I wound up in Balmer, heh.

              I take it you live in NYC?

              1. NYC may be expensive, but at least it’s not Baltimore.

                1. Baltimore is expensive also, but far better than NYC, imho.

              2. “‘I take it you live in NYC?”

                Most of my life. also lived in Nashville, London, each couple years. Prefer NYC. I understand why outsiders react poorly on first contact. it actually takes many people ~5 years or more to actually figure out the cost/benefit lifestyle. By that point most people are halfway done because as soon as marriage+kids arrive they all vanish.

                1. “Elaine, why don’t you move to Long Island already? The city’s a toilet!”

                2. I mean, I can understand it. It has it’s allure for sure.

                  I really like Nashville. I’ve never lived there, but I did live in TN for a while when I was a kid and I’ve spent a lot of time in Nashville, work related.

                  I’ve had a love/hate relationship with Baltimore for the last 7 years that I’ve lived in the city of near it, having worked in the city for 8 years now. Sure, it has it’s problems, including sprawling ghettos, mostly in west Baltimore. But the areas of the city that are nice are just as nice as the bad areas are bad.

                  The inner harbor and harbor east areas are very beautiful. Harbor East is gorgeous and is becoming very posh. I work near there, but live in one of the better burbs, I’m about 15 minutes from work. We spend a lot of time down there just walking around the harbor and harbor east, or just riding around on the water taxi to different areas. I really like it here. Too much to do, but unless you live in the inner harbor area, you need a car.

                  1. unless you live in the inner harbor area, you need a car

                    To me, that defeats the purpose if you want a “big city” lifestyle.

                    1. I don’t. Big city to me sucks. Medium city, perfect. I own homes in 2 medium cities now, and one in the middle of fucking nowhere. But don’t take it personally because I don’t like NYC. I don’t like any big cities in my experience. Wouldn’t want to live in Tokyo, Seoul, or Sao Paulo either.

                      Baltimore is perfect city living for me, if they could match the public transport with the natural beauty.

                    2. Big city to me sucks.

                      I get it. My point is that when all American cities not named New York were redesigned around cars, it took away any reason to live there willingly *if* you wanted that lifestyle.

                  2. “I mean, I can understand it. It has it’s allure for sure.”

                    As far as I can tell, the only allure is for people who are incredibly wealthy or grew up there and I think it’s hard for them to understand how much easier it is for normal people to live almost anywhere else in the country.

                    1. the only allure is for people who are incredibly wealthy or grew up there

                      I think the fact that NYC is more populous than ever says that lots of people find a lifestyle here that no other American city offers and trust me, most of us aren’t wealthy and didn’t grow up here.

                    2. When you look at migration in and out of NYC, it is losing about 67000 Americans per year, but it gets about 73000 international migrants.

                      In different words, the people who move to NYC are people from European and Asian shitholes who don’t know any better.

                    3. ” the people who move to NYC are people from European and Asian shitholes who don’t know any better.”

                      and the midwest.

                      Williamsburg is fondly known as “Little Madison”

                      Also, i think your data is probably just made-up. NYC has high turnover, but there’s no long-term foreignification that’s actually real. If anything the trend has likely been the opposite since the early 2000s

                  3. Are the highways in Nashville still apparently designed by an autistic monkey with a crayon?

                3. ” it actually takes many people ~5 years or more to actually figure out the cost/benefit lifestyle.”

                  You’re really not selling it

                  1. “You’re really not selling it”

                    If I thought it made a difference, i’d be trying to convince a lot of people currently living in NYC to leave ASAP and never come back.

                    There’s no changing people’s personal preferences. why bother?

                    1. If I were to live in a megacity, it would probably be Hong Kong. Plenty of the big city advantages, without NYC’s crime or attendant psycho cops, or, believe it or not, a gargantugov poking into everything you do.

      3. There was a line in the new season of Bojack Horseman where he was going to go to New York for six months to act in a play and said ‘Perfect! Six months is the perfect amount of time to live in New York, provided you’re single, have no children, and are incredibly wealthy.’

      4. If you don’t tip you get placed on the secret spitlist.

      5. I’ve only been to NYC once but everyone I met was very nice. I had to ask directions a couple of times and the people helped with no attitude at all. It was the exact opposite of what I expected.

      6. Sadly, everything you have just written applies to Metro Vancouver (and for that matter, most of the Lower Mainland of British Columbia) as well. Seems like most big cities in the Western Hemisphere are busy trying to regulate their business base out of existence.

        Because of social justice, doncha know. The Mag 9+ earthquake can’t happen fast enough here.

    2. When I read the headline I was thinking about the TV commercials NY runs about all the special tax abatements it offers new business’ starting up or locating to NY.

      Do they not realize that most businessmen/women are smart enough to realize what happens after the honeymoon is over ?

      1. Do they not realize that most businessmen/women are smart enough to realize what happens after the honeymoon is over ?

        The business funnels some of their savings into payoff for the politicians to support a renewal of their individual abatement?

      2. They must buy into the leftist canard that businesses only think about the next quarter.

      3. Was there some fine print at the bottom of the ad that read:

        sucker!

    3. Well, not legally. We’re not that dumb.

  5. OT:

    Gamergate (and neutral debaters and the audiance) just got bomb threatened again at the SPJfairplay debate.

    Cathy Young was there. Don’t know if she was there for the bomb threat and evacuation.

    Note: I wonder if Robby will again get his facts from gawker and claim gamergate used a time machine to send a bomb threat to Anita back in march of 2014 before gamergate even existed.

    1. SPJAirplay not SPJfairplay

      1. GamerGate critics are boycotting AirPlay. Anti-GamerGate (known as AGG) says AirPlay will serve to only support a “hate movement” that has only a passing interest in journalism ethics.

        Had they been born a mere 7,000 miles, either east or west, from their birthplace, your average AGGer would be, as I type this, enthusiastically screeching “Allahu akbar!” at the top of his or her lungs while pulverizing a 3,500-year old Babylonian sculpture into dust with a sledgehammer.

        1. I can’t follow this. Are “GamerGate critics” the SJWs?

          1. yes, sort of, not really…..

            Gamers got pissed at game journalists over corruption. Game journalists then played the “look over there” trick and said gamers are all sexist racist homophobes to distract from criticism directed at them.

            That is how SJWs are involved. Basicly they are useful idiots of corrupt unethical game journalists.

            1. Gamers got pissed at game journalists over corruption. Game journalists then played the “look over there” trick and said gamers are all sexist racist homophobes to distract from criticism directed at them.

              That’s one timeline, yes. You have to admit that even before GG came out that the indie games that were mysteriously garnering attention just happened to be ham-fisted SJW-message propaganda “games”.

              1. “indie games that were mysteriously garnering attention just happened to be ham-fisted SJW-message propaganda “games”.”

                Some but not all.

                Fez has no SJW message neither does the Kim Kardasian: Hollywood mobile game nor Broken Age.

                The press also had some shady dealings with AAA games and animosity toward gamer criticism of those games. Mass Effect 3 would be an example. Gamer criticism Xbox One features when it came out was called “the crying of babies” by the game press is another.

                The gaming press was protecting big advertisers and their friends. Some of the stuff was SJW message heavy some wasn’t.

                The game press tried to set itself up as gatekeepers for money and to promote their friends. Yes SJW tactics was a tool they used but it does not define the totality of their corruption or motivation.

                1. The gaming press was protecting big advertisers and their friends. Some of the stuff was SJW message heavy some wasn’t.

                  The game press tried to set itself up as gatekeepers for money and to promote their friends. Yes SJW tactics was a tool they used but it does not define the totality of their corruption or motivation.

                  That’s a fair description.

              2. ham-fisted SJW-message propaganda

                I was thinking of just this thing earlier today. My wife is watching the first season of this show “Torchwood”, which is a Doctor Who spinoff, and so far, on their main team of five people, four of them are gay or bi.

                You know, just like in real life.

                1. You know, just like in real life

                  Great Britain, dude, Britain.

                2. You know, just like in real life.

                  In a BBC scriptwriter’s fantasy…

                3. on their main team of five people, four of them are gay or bi.

                  You left out the fact that there was nothing ham-fisted or preachy about it – in fact, it was treated like no big deal.

                  Oh, and only 1 is gay and 1 is bi. And one of the women was “curious” one episode.

                  1. It’s ham-fisted when you purposefully wildly over-represent a given population that in actuality make up something like less than 5% of the population.

                    And to make sure you have the definition I’m using, I’m counting “gay or bi” as any one who made out with a member of the same sex in an episode. By that criteria, their valet Ianto is the only one who hasn’t done that so far. It’s completely understandable to use a different standard, but for purposes of my bringing this up (as being over-represented), I seriously doubt 80% of the adult public has, at any point, made out with a member of the same sex.

                    1. I’m counting “gay or bi” as any one who made out with a member of the same sex in an episode.

                      That’s laughable – that would make about 50% of American women “gay or bi”.

                      BTW, Ianto is bi. Jack is gay. Everyone else is straight no matter what you think.

                    2. “It’s ham-fisted when you purposefully wildly over-represent a given population that in actuality make up something like less than 5% of the population.”

                      If Fallout New Vegas is to be believed, 65% of the population is gay, and the rest are horribly damaged social misfits.

                      To be fair… at least it was actually *part of the game*, and not just shoved in there as some kind of insurance against any potential accusations they aren’t 100% politically-towing-the-lions.

                      The dumbest “gaying up” of any video game characters i’ve seen would have to go to Borderlands 2. Sir Hammerlock’s ex-boyfriend is… what, eaten alive or something? he seems to deal with it pretty well, emotionally. Which is basically how most of Teh Gay is implemented in games. Pointlessly, and with zero story-line relevance.

                    3. “I seriously doubt 80% of the adult public has, at any point, made out with a member of the same sex.”

                      Holy fuck. Where in tarnation is this homo-free paradise you’re coming at us out of? I wished I could have grew up there instead… or… maybe I don’t. I guess I could go either way.

                      On the other hand, the commonly promoted claims that 7 to 14 % of people are “homosexual” is obviously false. Just because a person might prefer to “make friends with” someone of the same sex slightly more frequently than some arbitrary standard of sexual orientedness doesn’t make him “gay”.

                      Homoism is like an addiction. Smoking crack or shooting wine doesn’t make one a drug addict; believing (internally, whether or not one admits it openly) that one is an addict is what makes one a drug addict. Same goes for gayhead–sucking dick doesn’t make a man gay; believing that he’s one makes him one. Everybody’s free whether he likes it or not, whether he believes it or not; but only somebody that believes he is a slave can be a slave.

                    4. This made me thinking about it, and it struck me that there seems to have been an inverse correlation between how much casual tomfoolery went on in a community and how much of the population was made up of actual homosexuals. On the coast, one sees a lot of homosexuals, and an absurd proportion of the unhomosexuals will vehement deny ever playing hookey on the predominant “sexual orientation” to which it seems everybody has to bow down by default. Wheras in the various places further inland where I’ve spent time, homosexuals are much rarer, but at the same time a bit of adventurism here and there isn’t that big a deal.

                      Like I’m out with my savoured and tarnishedest friend, from Capitol Hill, who has a very peculiar range of knowledge: that is, you never know what he’s going to have deep, intimate expertise in and what he’s going to be totally ignorant of. Anyway, he at one point asks me what is a trans man. So I looked around and there’s all these other people there plugged into their fucking computerphones, candy crush cowboys, jacking off their facebook friends and so forth. So i said it’s like these folks, but stick it in deeper till some kind of mystical transmogrification of man to trans man is going on and it’s getting incomprehensible.

            2. Basically, goofballs on youtube using ShadowPlay and other game streaming tools, and Steam forums rendered game journalists as completely useless dinosaurs. Ok, I should just stick with dinosaurs here since they were already completely useless.

              So, what do you do when you and your entire industry become useless dinosaurs? You become some type of screeching leftist tool trying to use racism, sexism, or whatever the fuck ism, in an attempt to get a corrupt government to bail your worthless ass out.

            3. unethical game journalists.

              This is why I find the whole GamerGate thing to be total nutballs. Sure I despise the people who make up the left and SJWs and all that but who gives a flying fuck about “gaming journalism”?

              Of all the pissant things to be concerned with this wouldn’t make the top 100.

              The only people who care are those that just have to buy the games first and be the first to play them. They want accurate and fair reviews sure but for the rest of the population who can wait a week for the user reviews and play-throughs to come in “gaming journalism” means exactly fuck-all so complaining about it is pointless.

              Also the only reason Sarkeesian and her coven are famous is because GamerGaters just couldn’t ignore her. They had to engage and thus created this monster.

              1. It doesn’t really work that way anymore. No one cares about old school gaming journalists. You know, the ones who wrote for the gaming magazines? They are 100x deader than the buggy whip factory.

                Gamers just go to youtube and watch whatever beta tester videos are available, and then go to Steam forums to discuss with fellow gamers.

                If you want to pre-order (something I never do), you can. Then you know you’re just taking a chance based on the reputation of the company or whatever gameplay you’ve seen on youtube, or the opinions of other gamers on Steam, or other game forums.

                There are the perpetually aggrieved who pre-order games and then get all pissy when it’s released and doesn’t meet their greatest expectations. But those will always be among us.

                For me, buying a game is like going out to dinner. If I didn’t like it, I might not go back again.

                1. Or if some woman brings you coffee in the morning and doesn’t fucking bother to preheat the cup, so that the freezing, icey-cold ceramics suck all the warmth out of the bean juice before you get to it: if it’s not hot enough, you throw it on the floor.

              2. “but who gives a flying fuck about “gaming journalism”?”

                The spill over has been into journalism in general. NYT CNN, MSNBC, the Guardian, Washington Post and on and on have all written hit pieces against gamers and gamergate. In essence repeating a lie in order to shut down just regular people.

                You might not care but one does wonder why huge global media corporations are circling their wagons to protect a lie against a consumer revolt.

                1. A huge part of journalism is kowtowing to the Top. Men. and shitting on the little guys. Always has been and I think most of us “price that in” when watching or reading anything they produce. It’s a known and, for the most part. unchangeable quality.

                  So why this revolt now? What is it about video games and gamers that brought this on?

                  It can’t be that some idiot bitch was saying radfem things about video games on an obscure Youtube channel. Or that some other chick wrote a horrible choose-your-path-game and happened to like banging guys. There’s something else. What is it?

                  1. So why this revolt now? What is it about video games and gamers that brought this on?

                    In Aug of 2014 a bunch of gaming sites (14?) wrote articles that called gamers dead all on the same day.

                    That is why it is now.

                    1. So why this revolt now? What is it about video games and gamers that brought this on?

                      In Aug of 2014 a bunch of gaming sites (14?) wrote articles that called gamers dead all on the same day.

                      Easy, control freaks tried to tell gamers what games they can or cannot play and how they are sexist because most gamers are male and most AAA games are geared towards males, and games are violent. Gamers said fuck you.

                  2. Always has beenand I think most of us “price that in” when watching or reading anything they produce

                    That’s an optimistic view of humanity.

                    1. I don’t mean the they that makes up them, I mean the we that makes up us.

                  3. A huge part of journalism is kowtowing to the Top. Men. and shitting on the little guys.

                    This is also not true.

                    On sites like Polygon and Kotaku prior (like 2010 to 2013) gamers were allowed pretty fair leeway in the comments. Also much of the press on these sites came from youtubers and reddit. Gamers (little guy) had their say. Then in about 2013 the sites started clamping down shutting the little guy out.

                    1. You say it isn’t true then state that that’s what happened. Top. Men. doesn’t always mean those with direct, politically-based coercive power, it also means opinion shapers and high-visibilty scolds and the like.

                      The tsk tskers of society.

              3. “Also the only reason Sarkeesian and her coven are famous is because GamerGaters just couldn’t ignore her. They had to engage and thus created this monster.”

                This is bullshit. Anita was famous long before gamergate existed and was not even mentioned in gamergate for the first month of gamergate until journalists started writing articles about her and equating her with gamergate. You got your cause and effect completely confused.

                Also outrage against Anita prior to gamergate is defined by lack of criticism allowed on sites like Kotaku and Polygon. Support for her by journalists was unified and homogenise and decent in comments was banned and criticism of her outside the sites was censored ignored and/or dismissed as hate speech. The outrage against Anita was not at Anita but the gatekeeping involved by the press.

                1. Also outrage against Anita

                  Who?

                  1. “Also outrage against Anita

                    Who?”

                    Anita Sarkeesian

                    https://www.youtube.com/user/feministfrequency

                    1. feministfrequency. Yep, I really need to know who she is now. But, thanks for the link.

                      I’m a pretty hardcore gamer, I spend a lot of money on it, and I’ve never heard of her. Bet all of my gaming friends haven’t either.

                    2. I’m not a gamer at all and the first I heard of GamerGate was the Depression Quest woman and her ex-boyfriend and then the next thing I heard about was Sarkeesian.

                      Gaming journalism didn’t come in until way later in the narrative as it unspooled for me.

                    3. Warren, read my post upthread. Gaming journalism is a joke if you’re referring to the old school gaming journalists who used to write for the printed magazines before gaming was so popular on the intertoobz, or more recent online gaming magazines like Gamespot.

                      Gamers don’t fucking care. Ok, let me back up a minute. If we’re referring to console gamers, maybe this is where they get their news still, I don’t know, but PC gamers, who are now a larger share of the market, don’t give a flying fucking rats ass who the hell this Anita is or about mainstream gaming journalists.

                      Gamers care about their hobby. And they have a tremendous amount of power because they spend billions annually with the gaming companies. This Anita is a fucking piss ant. If she thinks she’s more than that, she’s suffering from some severe delusion. Gamers and their wants will roll over her like a road paver rolls over a fucking bug on the road.

                    4. Hyperion,

                      Well, yeah. That’s why I’m confused about this whole she-bang.

                      SJWs are loud and get help from the media but do not have the economic power to change the industry so why worry about them?

                    5. “but do not have the economic power to change the industry so why worry about them?”

                      They have gotten games changed and banned.

                      They don’t have the economic power but apparently the Industry does not know that and they have listened to to them changing game content.

                      Also as I said the press was setting themselves up as gatekeepers. Not just pushing an SJW agenda but secular control of what is covered and what is panned in the press and shiting on and censoring legitimate criticism by gamers of indy and AAA titles and organizing that gatekeeping via PR firms cozy with the press and GameJournoPros.

                    6. What games? In this country any such ban would fall to the 1st.

                    7. They have gotten games changed and banned

                      In the USA? What games have they gotten banned? Have you played GTA V? I suspect that would make the average SJW shit their pants to death.

                    8. “I’m not a gamer at all and the first I heard of GamerGate was the Depression Quest woman and her ex-boyfriend and then the next thing I heard about was Sarkeesian.”

                      I heard about gamergate either a day or two after the “gamers are dead” articles or on that day.

                      I then started following the tag on twitter and Anita did not really show up until Kotaku posted an article in about mid September about a bomb threat Anita got in march 2014 and how Anita cancelled a speech at some college because the university would not prohibit people from coming to the speech who had concealed weapon’s permits (not concealed weapons which were prohibited on campus but permits). Kotaku (and later reason’s Robby) claimed she cancelled because of threats but that is a verifiable lie. Kotaku attributed both threats to gamergate and that article got reposted and quoted all over the internet by other press outlets.

                      Anyway that is why I know the time line because I was in fact fallowing the hashtag and was surprised when Anita’s name came up. I actively wondered at the time “why the fuck is the press bringing her into this?”

                2. Was part of this fired up by those two guys that got fired because of a dongle joke at some conference pissed off a femi-snitch? Or is that less a cause and more of an example?

                  1. An example.

                    I never heard about the video and firing until like 5 months ago.

                    Destructoid’s Allistair Pinsof would be another example. He was a reporter who exposed a transgender person who collected kickstarter money to make a game then used that money for sex change treatment.

                    It was the “Gamer’s are Dead” articles that really caused gamergate. The actual tag #gamergate existed before the articles yet when you look at the number of tweets it was still really small and not really growing until the day, and the day after, those articles appeared. That is when it really took off.

                    1. I never thought the GG thing was about “gaming journalism” any more than WWI was about Serbian v Croatian Nationalist/Federalist disagreements.

                      The journalism issue was merely the camel’s-back-breaking “evidence” cited in Gamer’s increasing frustration with being endlessly lectured to by a tiny-minority of Cultural-Imperialist Social Justice Crusaders, who dominated the rhetoric being used by gaming media and forcing their stupid fucking agendas into everything.

                      I’m not even a proper gamer (* i reserve that term for people who actually play other people online on a regular basis. I’m a single-player-mode bitch), but even i find the imposition of the culture-wars into digital media to be silly and deserving of mockery.

                    2. “I never thought the GG thing was about “gaming journalism” any more than WWI was about Serbian v Croatian Nationalist/Federalist disagreements.”

                      No it is ethics Gilmore.

                      The game press was not just lecturing gamers about SJW bullshit but also about things like the Mass Effect 3’s ending, always online Xbox One, Sim City being always online and on and on.

                      They were trying to set themselves up as gatekeepers rather then objective reporters informing gamers.

                      SJW gatekeepers? Yes, but gatekeepers more broadly as well.

                    3. “”things like the Mass Effect 3’s ending””

                      did not realize this was a thing.

                      I agree with the ‘fan’ complaints that it was a shitty ending. The fact that the game was specifically structured with an architecture where choices in early installments affected events in later ones….

                      …then abandoned that, and basically offered players a “red pill/blue pill” moment to choose any ending they want…

                      …was monumentally stupid. I don’t see what the gaming media did to affect that, however. so some of them told fans to Shut Up and Suck It? Even the first link there points out that there was a pretty diverse view from the media. And who cares what they think anyway? It was already a given-fact at that point. At least they didn’t accuse Shepherd of being a serial rapist.

                    4. No it is pretty universal among GameJournoPros sites that the gamers complaining about Mass Effect 3 are babies.

                      Furthermore the whole thing is framed by the press as gamers complaining about the ending when in fact they are complaining that Mass Effect was supposed to have choices that effected the ending which the developers promised but obviously did not deliver.

                      “And who cares what they think anyway?”

                      Well after gamergate i don’t think anyone trusts these game sites any more.

                      Anyway this is an example of the game press clique playing gatekeeper that does not involve an SJW narrative. It is one of many that demonstrates they were not just SJWs but gatekeepers

                    5. “No it is pretty universal”

                      The first link pointed out =

                      “Kotaku’s article “Why Mass Effect 3’s Ending Was So Damn Terrible,”[5] The Escapist Magazine’s “Why BioWare Shouldn’t Change Mass Effect 3’s Ending”[6] and GameFront’s “Mass Effect 3 Ending-Hatred: 5 Reasons The Fans Are Right“[7] among others. In contrast, GameSpot defended BioWare’s decision to stay put with their original work in a column article titled “Why BioWare Shouldn’t Change Mass Effect 3’s Ending.”[8]”

                      That does not describe a universally shared opinion

                      A brief google finds a dozen other similar, equally varied views in so-called ‘gaming press’

                      Nor is there any consistent “framing” as you describe

                      Kotaku – a site cited in the past as being part of the GameJournoPros Cabal – says

                      ” over a decade’s work, across various BioWare franchises, Mass Effect let you alter the course of the game’s story by selecting dialogue options that correspond to a desired moral compass. …And then, at the very end of the trilogy… the system gets thrown out the window”

                      Also, as i pointed out = this journalistic commentary was about a fait accompli. The range of opinions among game journalists served zero “gatekeeper” effect, and had no impact on anything. unless you expected the developer to recall their product and change it

                    6. also from Kotaku:

                      “Why Mass Effect 3’s Ending Doesn’t Need Changing (SPOILERS)
                      Kate Cox
                      Filed to: Opinion 3/12/12 6:00pm”

                      So what you have is one Gamejournopros site with both opinions the first defending Mass Effect to not change the game.

                      Also the gatekeeping was in defence of Mass Effect and to silence the critics so in actuality It was an attempt at gatekeeping just not a successful one. Note that the ending was changed by customer demand.

                      Also this was 2012 and as I mentioned in previous posts the ramp up by the press for greater and greater “message” control was not in full swing at this point.

                      One point is interesting from the article I found from Kotaku:

                      “The player’s control over Shepard’s fate always was, in most ways, an illusion, across all three games. But what a strong and passionate illusion it was. At the end of all things, when Shepard’s story culminates in one painful, limiting final choice, the player truly feels the limits of the walls that a game puts up. We cannot ask a “why” that isn’t coded, and we cannot force a happy ending through sheer force of will.”

                      This sounds an awful like what was being pushed in the gamers are dead articles (the non-SJW parts) that called for less choice in games and more story driven linear games.

                    7. sigh

                      “Note that the ending was changed by customer demand.”

                      Was it?

                      I played the “extended cut” edition (which is i guess what you mean)… and it was the same stupid “go left to extinguish species” , “go right to save the aliens” thing. I actually made a mistake and did the opposite of what I’d actually intended. Whoops! I just destroyed humanity, now we’re all cyborgs.

                      What changed? because it the game still seemed to ignore the direction of every single choice prior to that moment, which was exactly what everyone was bitching about. From what i could tell the “extended cut” bits were just some added footage .

                      “the gatekeeping was in defence of Mass Effect and to silence the critics”

                      As noted, in many cases…they *were* the critics. The entire point is that your claim of some universal journalistic cover-up attempt doesn’t seem to be reflected in reality.

                      I’m not sure anyone has ever effectively ‘silenced critics’ on the internet anyway. Its critics all the way down.

                      My only skepticism about your claims about the “essence” of GGate is that i don’t think anyone really cares about games journalism at all. its just the culture-war bullshit from what i can tell. Again – i’m just saying that as someone who followed the issue mostly via Sargon.

                    8. “I don’t think anyone really cares about games journalism at all.”

                      Well I am the leader of gamergate and i know i am in it for ethics. Specificly the censoring (later discovered to be done by kotaku’s editor and chief Steve Totilo) on reddit of gamergate, the gamers are dead articles and the collusion inherent with gamejournopros

                      The articles are specific about what is wrong with gamers and why the industry should ignore them as an audience. The two main points: the first was SJW crap that gamers are all misogynists and racist homophobes the second was that gamers play games that are not linear story driven narratives.

                      The articles were written by the corrupt game press and they were pushing an agenda. An agenda that included SJW bullshit but also included how games should be and not be.

                      I will admit more recently there is very little discussion about the second point as it would seem gamejournopros almost thoroughly lost the debate among the industry and among consumers.

                      Sargon in earlier videos does cover this issue. Also Sargon has made an effort to keep arguments against SJWs separate from his gamergate arguments which are about ethics against the press. Not to mention that he has specificly said he wishes to only focus on ethics in regards to gamergate.

                      Also if you go to KiA there are tons of threads about ethics.
                      and Deepfreeze is huge on the gamergate hashtag.

                    9. “I am the leader of gamergate and i know i am in it for ethics.”

                      Congratulations.

                      I’d be more-convinced if you had a better example of the widespread lack of ‘ethics’ in game-writing than that ME3 thing, which doesn’t appear to be an example of….well, anything at all.

                      If there has been any ethical lapses its largely been on the part of the wider-media and their handling of the GG topic, but that’s a post-facto reaction to anyone who screams “Sexism!” loudly and frequently enough, obviously.

                      I think its foolish to think that any large-ish movement is in any way defined by its initial motivating factors forever, for as things expand they take on the shape of the people involved. I’d be surprised if Milo Y or Christina Hoff Summers really give a shit about “gaming journalism”, by itself in a vacuum, rather than the blowback against SJW political-correctness which the movement sparked.

                      His own rant on the subject certainly points in that direction.

                    10. I’d be more-convinced if you had a better example of the widespread lack of ‘ethics’ in game-writing than that ME3 thing, which doesn’t appear to be an example of….well, anything at all.

                      I disagree but fine we agree to disagree about press coverage of ME3.

                      I gave other examples.

                      Furthermore there are non-sjw motivated ethics violations in regards to the game Fez in which the press circled the wagons to protect Phil Fish from his bullshit and in regards to corruption within the GDC awards.

                      Also there is non-sjw corruption in regards to Tim Schafer’s Broken age in which multiple kickstarters were made for the game and criticism of those practices were blocked by the press.

                      try http://www.deepfreeze.it/ for more

                    11. Yep, I’ve seen that.

                      Perhaps relevant
                      http://thefederalist.com/2015/…..videocons/

                    12. For clarity … While I know about some of the instances you cite, and their role in catalyzing the GG thing… I remain skeptical that ‘games journalism’ it is still the prime mover in the GG world, so much as the awareness of and opposition to the underlying mindset that often motivated those ‘ethical lapses’.

                      If the issue were mere ‘payola’ conflicts, where media function as hacks for the industry, that is one thing (and wildly commonplace)…. But that often, the collusion was not purely venal, but also ideological… Promoting feminist agendas, trashing politically disfavored individuals, and promoting fake victimhood narratives

                      You may prefer to claim the dispute is about ‘ethics’ because it suggests an apolitical concern. My point is that it remains fundamentally political fighting between ‘cultural leftists’ and more generally liberal gamers.

          2. I can’t follow this. Are “GamerGate critics” the SJWs?

            Yes, the SJWs, AKA worthless morons.

            1. JUVENILE. PSYCHOPATHIC. CRYPTO-SOCON.

              1. Bo?

        2. They don’t have the courage of their convictions. They’ll never wield the sledgehammer, just cheer the asshole who does.

          1. They might not be first-wave infantry taking on Kurdish forces in close-quarters combat, but their love of violence would be satiated enough by being the clean-up crew, bashing elderly men’s heads against pavement and shunting Yazidi preteen survivors for the rape camps.

        3. Fuck the SJWs. As soon as these hit the shelf I will own one:

          HTC Vive

          The first game will feature kicking and punching SJWs in your virtual space.

        4. AirPlay will serve to only support a “hate movement” that has only a passing interest in journalism ethics.

          And they would be right: just like SJWs, the ethics of professional journalists are beyond redemption, and people shouldn’t dignify that profession by going to their conferences.

      2. SPLITTERS!

  6. OT:

    RICO Suits Hit Colorado Pot Dealers (and Landlords and Bankers)

    A fair application of RICO would force the government to prosecute itself.

    1. It’s a private RICO case. Why that even exists (and why it can operate completely separately from the criminal side) is a mystery to me.

      May all officers, employees, and donors of Safe Streets Alliance one day find themselves on the receiving end of the state violence they tirelessly support.

      1. Bizarre, isn’t it? (well, not really – enriching lawyers is a common, if unspoken, aim of statutes that create various private causes of action)

        The initial reasoning for RICO and other criminal-conspiracy statutes makes sense: mob bosses shouldn’t escape prosecution for murder when they technically did not commit the murder. But, when it comes to the government, mission creep is inevitable…

      2. I’ll take a guess: If you’ve been shaken down by a mafia for years, you’d like a legal tool by which you can shake back.

  7. Why do we assume that this is Gyms getting caught in a Moral Panic about prostitution, instead of people who don’t like Gyms using a moral panic about prostitution?

    1. Gyms are now the confederate flag of fat-shaming.

    2. That was my first thought on seeing A 1978 anti-prostitution law creates pointless red tape at the top of the article – I’m pretty damn sure it’s not ‘pointless’. If nothing else, red tape creation provides jobs for red tape creators and even more lucrative opportunities for red tape cutters-through. In this case, I would look first to see who benefits from a barrier-to-entry law.

    3. That was my first thought on seeing A 1978 anti-prostitution law creates pointless red tape at the top of the article – I’m pretty damn sure it’s not ‘pointless’. If nothing else, red tape creation provides jobs for red tape creators and even more lucrative opportunities for red tape cutters-through. In this case, I would look first to see who benefits from a barrier-to-entry law.

  8. I gather from somewhat elliptic comments by Larry Littlefield at the linked article & another he linked to, the permitting process requires the establishment to be outfitted & in place for those 6 mos. w/o actually operating. Sort of demonstrating what they’re about to show what they’re not about. Can anybody confirm and/or clarify?

  9. Karate Schools?

    Those kinky bastards…

  10. Why is it the government’s business anyway if people are getting paid to screw in the locker room?

    Isn’t it obvious? The government wants to screw you, and they don’t want sloppy seconds.

  11. It should be a cool gym, I even heard that they are going to buy some of the best value power rack and there should be a lot of them, cool, right?

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