Republican Party

How Libertarian Will the GOP Be This Election Season?

Judging from the first debate, a little bit.


Download Video as MP4

Since its brand has continued to bleed favorability over the years, the GOP has at times talked a big game about reaching libertarian voters.

With 10 candidates crowding the stage, and a handful of others waiting in the wings, how'd the libertarian outreach go in the first GOP debate of 2015?

Watch Reason TV's video, "The 3 Most and Least Libertarian Moments of the First GOP Debate" to find out.

Produced by Zach Weissmueller and Paul Detrick. Approximately 1:30 minutes.

Visit for downloadable versions, and subscribe to Reason TV's YouTube channel for daily content like this.

Originally aired at on August 7, 2015.

NEXT: Did Jon Stewart Really Speak Truth to Power?

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  1. GOP primary voters don’t know what they want, they just want someone who is the opposite of what they think the Democrats are. The more blustering the candidate is when being that, the better.

    1. I don’t think that’s fair. They want criminal illegal aliens deported, they want less government spending on a bunch of things (including Planned Parenthood), they want less kowtowing to foreign governments that hate us, they want the IRS to be held to account for persecuting Obama’s opponents. All of that seems clear and reasonable to me.

      1. Racists !!!!!!11!!1

      2. The page that PapayaSF links to features hysterical bullshit from premier bullshit artist Tom Tancredo.

        There is no correlation between immigration and crime or illegal immigration and crime.…

        Further details:…..s-natives/

        1. so the GAO is just making these numbers up? Got a cite for that?

          Between 2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%.

          During those years, criminal aliens accounted for 38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.

          That 38% represents 7,085 murders out of the total of 18,64

          1. Those astounding numbers were compiled by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) using official Department of Justice data on criminal aliens in the nation’s correctional system. The numbers were the basis for a presentation at a recent New Hampshire conference sponsored by the highly respected Center for Security Policy. You can view the full presentation here:

            1. which carries a little more weight than the “American Immigration Council”

              1. Cytotoxic is immune to evidence that doesn’t fit his worldview.

                1. Project harder, byatch.

                  1. PapayaSF is naive enough to believe that Jeb Bush (or any GOPer) will do any more than the nothing that George W did about illegal immigration.

                    1. Maybe not, but at least they’re not as pro-illegal-immigration as Democrats, who are busy electing a new people, Labour Party style.

          2. Conviction rate =/= murder rate. Fact is, as illegal immigration soared through the nineties, crime fell. There is as much correlation between illegal immigration and crime as there is between guns and crime.

            1. Your argument rests on averages, and so fails in several ways:

              1) Just because those two things happened together doesn’t prove anything about the crime rate among illegals. Maybe the ’90s would have seen a greater crime drop without all the new illegals.

              2) The average crime rate for the US in effect the average crime rate of whites plus the crime of blacks. Hispanics are somewhat in the middle. But if we want to improve the country, why import people with an “average” crime rate? Why not, you know, do better with some careful screening?

              3) Illegals are often poor and uneducated, both crime risk factors. We’re not only letting in people with gang tattoos, and we’re not even kicking them out when they get caught committing crimes. Until they kill and/or rape someone. Then we’ll get Cytotoxic talking about “averages.”

              4) I’m sure that “most” government employees are honest and hard-working, but that doesn’t mean I want more them. Just because “most” illegals aren’t robbers or rapists doesn’t mean that they have purely positive impact on the country. They’re driving up rents, burdening the schools and hospitals and social services, and clogging the roads. In California, they’re using a lot of water we don’t have. There’s lots of water in Guatemala, so they should stay there.

              1. Conversely, it might haves seen a *smaller* crime drop without them.

                1. True, Agammamon. It just doesn’t prove anything either way.

                  1. …which is exactly my point. WOOSH

              2. But if we want to improve the country, why import people with an “average” crime rate?

                A civilized country does not bar people based on a vague totality, especially race. You are literally calling for a racist immigration policy. That’s why you are called a ‘racist’. It’s because you are one.

                Just because “most” illegals aren’t robbers or rapists doesn’t mean that they have purely positive impact on the country. They’re driving up rents, burdening the schools and hospitals and social services, and clogging the roads.

                I guess your next move will be to advocate for a one-child policy to keep those roads clear.

                There’s lots of water in Guatemala, so they should stay there.

                Fuck yourself. You have no right to determine where people stay and go.

                1. Fuck yourself. You have no right to determine where people stay and go.

                  Pretty easy to pontificate from that national whiteopia you’re living in.

          3. Does the GAO data include state prisons?

          4. Those numbers come from “The Red-Green Axis: Refugees, Immigration and the Agenda to Erase America” at approx. 4:37, extensively sourced as “GAO Unpublished statistics on SCAAP illegals; state crime databases 2005-2008; & DOJ statistics”.

            Trivial errors in writeup (assuming the best)? Check.
            Reliance on difficult-to-verify data? Check.
            Opaque methodology from obviously biased source? Check.

            In addition:

            The US Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Programs publishes an annual report on the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program, a report that includes data on the number of criminal aliens incarcerated each state prison system and each county jail. It takes some prodigious digging to find the data, but it is there.

            I bothered to look; the report is not what he claims it is, and it does not contain the data he says it does. Again I’ll assume it was just sloppiness.

            But forgive me if I don’t take his word for it.

            1. An anti-immigration twat that is full of shit! SHOCKING. Can you give me a link to a critique?

          5. Between 2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%.

            So, the state with the *largest* influx of criminal aliens is also the state with the *least* amount of murder convictions from them?

            ‘Cause Florida gets a few Cubans every once in a while, but I’m pretty sure the only illegal immigrants that are coming straight into NY are illegal Canadians.

            If anything, this shows that *criminal* illegals are attracted to Florida and New York, and don’t stick around in AZ once they cross the border.

            And – disregarding the above – take this into consideration.

            We already know that the lower you are on the socio-economic ladder the more vulnerable you are to the predations of law enforcement. Illegals are at the very bottom. We, *here*, question the validity the statistics for arrest/conviction of *legal* minorities in this country – we’re aware of the racial conviction rates/sentencing disparities, but you’re just going to take these numbers as given, without questioning them, simply because it has to do with *illegals*?

          6. I live in Ann Arbor, about 40 miles west of Detroit. In Detroit, the crime rate is high and here — just a short drive away — it remains very low. And yet there’s no fence or border control at the Washtenaw-Wayne county line — how do you explain that? Do you think there should be a fence? Would be better to secure all Detroiters within their boundaries just to make doubly sure?

            I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you wouldn’t want to do that. But then perhaps you could explain the moral difference between trying to keep poor black people in Detroit with a fence and armed guards vs trying to do the same to poor brown people in Mexico.

            1. The difference is between keeping citizens in one part of your country by force (immoral) and keeping non-citizens out of your country by force (moral, traditional, and logical).

              1. That’s only logical and moral to an immoral nationalistic pig like you.

              2. But they’re not citizens of *Ann Arbor*. So why shouldn’t Ann Arbor be able to keep them out?

                What is so magical about a *national* border compared to a state/county/city border?

                If you have the right to exclude people from your nation, you have the right to exclude them from your city.

      3. And this is what you want also, right?

    2. What’s even sadder is that republicans don’t have to really worry about the libertarian vote, they automatically assume, rightly so in most cases, that libertarians will “hold their nose” and vote against the democrat. As long as we continue to give our votes to these idiots, they will say whatever they think we want to hear. Hold off one or two voting cycles, concentrate on the grass roots and let them see the power in the libertarian vote, one they cannot get just by giving lip service. Only then, if they want to stay in power, will they nominate a Paul, an Amash, or even better, a libertarian governor.

      1. “…they automatically assume, rightly so in most cases, that libertarians will “hold their nose” and vote against the democrat.”

        I’m pretty sure that’s the presumption, but in my case, the vote goes to the L-candidate or most often my favored candidate: “Nobody”.

      2. Right. Because then the vast majority of voters, libertarians all, will vote for Republicans.

  2. “A little bit” is better than “not at all.”

    1. Not really when that little bit will be sidelined to fight the Illegal Immigration (non)-Menace.

      1. Does your neighborhood have Hispanic gangs that consist largely of illegal immigrants and their kids? Mine does. Can you cite some study that makes them disappear? I don’t think so.

        1. No but the studies are why I am right and you are not. End of story.

        2. Really? Because mine doesn’t. And mine is 99% hispanic.

    2. If that’s all we are willing to settle for, that is all we will get. Just enough to trick us into voting the status quo.

  3. How Libertarian Will the GOP Be This Election Season?

    Grow the government less than what the Dems want? Any reduction of spending increases is genocidal I’m told.

    1. You’re stupid enough to believe that Republicans actually cut government more than Democrats do.

      Reagan, Bush and the idiot Bush son increased government far more than Carter, Clinton, and Obama did.

      1. “and Obama did”

        O-care, turd.

    2. I’m giving this the benefit of the doubt and saying it was an attempt at humor. Grow the gov’t less? Like increased gov’t surveillance, increased global intervention, increased military spending, continuing prohibition, continued militarization of police, continued support of non regulatory agencies militia…. Yea, we need more “small gov’t” policies like that.

      1. Winston is serious. He is a Bush Big Gov Team Red Socialist NCLB TSA NSA Iraq War GOP boy.

        1. Unlike turd, who’s a lefty big government socialist.

        2. Seem Shriek has been reading too much Gilmore.

      2. I’m giving this the benefit of the doubt and saying it was an attempt at humor

        Ding Ding.

  4. It will be very libertarian because this is the Libertarian Moment.

    1. Slightly related, I noticed my mailman paused for a moment today to read my copy of the Reason Report before putting it in my mailbox. Front cover story on the subpoena, gag order, Ken White, etc.

      Hopefully it brushed a little dust off his brain.

      1. Either that or you’re now on a FEMA list…

        1. You’re not a “cup half full” kind of gal, are you?

      2. Maybe he just liked the bright colors?

    2. Rand will win all 57 States in 2016 and 2020 by endorsing Gay Marriage, pot and Mexicans!/ Gillespie

    3. Yeah, it’s a libertarian moment, and tomorrow we’ll all wake up everyone will have a free pony arrive at their door.

      1. If Vermin Supreme is on the ballot…

  5. OT: I’ve hear of a shotgun weding, but a gavel wedding…?…..probation/

    A man was forced to marry his 19-year-old girlfriend and write down Bible verses by an East Texas judge as punishment for punching another man in the jaw.

    Last month, Josten Bundy was taken to court for fighting Jaynes’ former partner, who did not need medical assistance but pressed assault charges after the altercation. Court transcripts show that Judge Randall Rogers asked Bundy if Jaynes was worth fighting for.

    1. “Your honor, I choose to take the black instead.”

      1. If only the Wall were an option in real life. Sure, it’s cold as hell and you’re literally a meat shield against an unspeakable horror but damn, those wildling girls.

          1. It was remarkable how similar that relationship was to my first girlfriend.

            sex in a cave, next thing I know she shoots me with an arrow, then attacks my friends with a bunch of bald cannibals. Relationships are hard.

            1. That’s what you get for dating a redhead.

  6. OT:…..otice.html

    Man loses most of his brain and does not notice. He is not Donald Trump.

    1. That implies that Trump ever had a brain…

    2. other than a slightly below-average IQ of 75,

      I thought the line for retardation was 80.

      1. “5% of people have an IQ under 70 and this is generally considered as the benchmark for “mental retardation”, a condition of limited mental ability in that it produces difficulty in adapting to the demands of life.”…..sMean.html
        According to a 2004 paper; might have gotten some SJW ‘adjustment’ by now.

        1. Shows what I know. I thought genius started at 160 and retarded at 80. Looks like the bell curve sits a little dumber than I thought.

          1. IQ is normally distributed with a mean of 100, so it makes sense that the designations for genius and retard, at 130 and 70, are both the same distance from 100. They are both actually 2 standard deviations away. The link from Sevo is wrong, though. They say 95% of population IQs are between 70 and 130 (true) and then say that 5% of the population has an IQ below 70. Since there exist some IQs above 130, it is normally distributed and there is only 5% left outside of the range, it should be 2.5%.

            1. They’re wrong about the 5% sure, but IQs are not equally distributed on both sides of the peak.

      2. I thought the line for retardation was 80.

        They had to lower the bar for the special snowflake, participation trophy-recipient Millenial Generation.

  7. How Libertarian Will the GOP Be This Election Season?

    0. Nadda. This country is getting so authoritarian that being allowed to choose your own toothpaste merits an article from The Jacket about a “libertarian moment.”

    1. Nobody needs 23 types of toothpaste when children are starving.

      1. Nobody needs 23 types of toothpaste when children are starving EVAR.

        Fixed. You’re welcome.

        /Bernie Sanders

        1. Can we get 23 types of Bernie Sanders? We can strand them naked on an island and film them going lord of the flies.

          1. Nah, they’d all starve to death arguing about how to divide up the work that none of them know how to do.

            23 Bernies: “From each according to their ability!”

            *look at each other for a few minutes*

            23 Bernies: “No one has any abilities. Oh boy….”

            1. How would they starve to death? They would have a right to food. You haven’t thought this through.

              BTW you have my unwavering semi flaccid support, future impeached presidente.

      2. It’s cool that I have like 9 kinds of mustard though right?

  8. “How libertarian will the GOP be?”

    “Ima go with ‘Not’, for $1000, Alex….”

  9. Have GILMORE and Warty had make-up sex yet?

    1. What about Nikki and John?

      1. John is beyond salvation. And he still thinks Nicole is a 50 year old woman.

        1. I’m just tired of all these threads getting completely derailed.

          1. Derailed from what?

            Half the posts are about Trump…. and my comment was “hey warty, no one really supports trump all that much”, at which point I got accused of being a secret Trump supporter.

            1. I think he’s talking about John’s tl;dr posts about the gheyz or the whores, not necessarily about your exchange with Warty.

              1. oh.

                Yeah, i skip past john when he gets into fired-up-tete-a-tete mode. i don’t even pay attention.

                also, i love that you say “whores”. sex-worker is so sterile. I split the difference and go with “prostitute” because it sounds very professional… like Institute, or Astute, or people named Knut.

                1. My use of ‘whore’ was referring back the the actual exchange the title of which could have been:

                  In Which John and Nicole Discuss Whores

                  Whether it’s whore, prostitute or sex worker seems like po ta toe or po tah toe to me.

                  1. I thought the consensus was that when they’re dead they’re just hookers.

            2. I was specifically referring to nikki becoming John’s new MNG.

              1. I think John was recently going through some personal stuff, and he wasn’t himself. I keep waiting for him to snap out of it, but the longer it goes on, the less I believe that it’s actually going to happen.

                He’s been full Farva lately.

                1. He has seemed overly emotional so I’ve tried to stay off his back. I do think Nikki was mostly civil with him so I’m not blaming her.

                2. John’s just distressed that all of these gay couples must now suffer the tyranny of marriage. It gets to him, okay?

                3. John has gotten stupider over the past few years.

              2. Nikki is smarter yet far less unintentionally funny.

    2. Francisco cock blocked Warty so not yet.

      1. On second thought, considering what I’ve been told about Warty’s unique anatomy, perhaps nothing can block that cock.

        1. I’ll sell you some pics if the price is right.

    3. When did they have a falling out? DRAMA!

      1. They didn’t have a falling out; they had a disagreement. It happens sometimes but doesn’t mean Mommy and Daddy don’t love each other.

        1. I am interested in your story, and would like to see a link.

        2. *psst! Heather has two mommies!*

        3. You’re the reason mommy and daddy don’t get along.

          1. I thought it was that incident with the sitter…

            1. They turned that into a movie. Several movies, actually.

              Bow chicka bow wow.

              1. Who do you think wrote those?

                1. Wrote, starred, directed.

          2. This is what we told my youngest brother. Really! we were horrible.

            Then he went crazy. Imagine our embarrassment. You live, you learn.

            1. Clearly, it’s your fault he went crazy.

    4. I am all for it as long as there are photos.

    5. Gilmore is DJing the dance off.

  10. I see GILMORE continues to attempt to sabotage my campaign after I leave threads. Just what I’d expect from a bleeding Megyn Kelly supporter.

    As you know, a vote for Almanian for President – 2016 is probably wasted and hopeless. But I Probably Won’t Make It Any Worse.

    1. Can an Almanian even stand for election here?

    2. Are you on the ballot? Because here in Florida they bother to count write-ins.

      1. *don’t

    3. I promise to sell out if elected and to still be the better than the rest of those fuckers.

    4. Almanian Continues To Blame His Poor Polling on Wild Conspiracy Theories

      Whether it is due to his family history of degenerative brain disease, or secret drug addiction, we can not say, but we remain concerned about his increasingly erratic behavior, as well as the frequent sightings of smallpox laden-rats at his campaign events, which were definitely not released by the Committee To Destroy Almanian as his staff has claimed.

      1. And is there any truth to the rumors about the sheep?

      2. secret drug addiction

        Secret to who?

    5. Fuck Almanian. Vote Warty 2016. THE GREATER OF TWO EVILS

      1. You’d get the yinzer vote.

    6. Campaign on being from a state that brews great beer and hates Ohio State. WIN.

  11. I’m not a fan of Huckelberry, but that was some pretty creative cutting on the debates. When he was talking about “Drug dealers, prostitutes…who freeload today” he was specifically talking about the Fair Tax. And prior to mentioning the black market, he talked about how the majority of money-makers in the country make their money today off of capital gains, and so escape the federal income tax.

    Certainly, no taxes would be better than any taxes, but he was talking about a significant reform to move from an intrusive, expensive and loophole heavy income tax system to a consumptive tax. That is something that any libertarian should be happy about.

    At the least, his rhetoric should be considered liberty neutral rather than being portrayed as if he was claiming to target those industries for more regulation, because that wasn’t the point at all.

    1. So…… he was implicitly pro freedom and not, shall we say, overt-ly pro freedom?

      1. The quote they pulled started with “Huckabee is universally awful”, which is fine to say- since I’m no fan about 90% of his positions. But to bolster that statement by quoting his only decent liberty increasing policy proposal is, in my mind, disingenuous.

        The Fair Tax is miles and above better than 100% of the GOP tax proposals out there (Rand’s deeply thought out flat tax being a slightly worse alternative, since it keeps the IRS in every household). I’m a bit disappointed that there was no commentary on Huckabee’s tax proposal in the first place, but then to paint his pitch as part of the “least libertarian” points in the debate is pretty bad.


          Here, read this. The “fair tax” is a joke.

          1. Nice job, turd. Almost as good as your bullshit claims regarding O-care and the Heritage plan.
            To save everybody wasting time on this pile of shit, the author is a former Treasury bureaucrat, so you know how he favors small government.
            And then he ‘constructs’ the “fair tax” and shows why that construction might be as bad as the current income tax.
            Slimebag, do you ever post without lying?

    2. The “fair tax” is bullshit. Bruce Bartlett dunked that shitbag liar Neal Boortz’ head in the toilet on that one.

      1. Care to explain why instead of resorting to your overused and rather boring ad hominem attacks?


          Bartlett squashed this idiot idea like a fat woman sitting on a bug.

          1. There is a long paper researched on the Fair Tax site that deals with these criticisms. There are a lot of costs to switching to the Fair Tax. Very significant costs, as there will be with any major overhaul with the tax system. Take, for example, leveling a 30% tax on the cost of a new house (pre-owned houses, I believe, are exempt). That is a huge premium.

            But, to me, those costs are worth it to move to a consumptive tax.

            1. Nice, honest reply. Congrats. You get my respect.

              Who wrote this “paper”?

              Neal Boortz? He is not qualified and is completely ignorant on economics.

              Please link so that I may respond.

              Thank you.

              1. “Please link so that I may respond.”
                Why? You need a further excuse to lie?

            2. But what if the worker is now paying less than 23
              percent of his income in federal taxes? In this case, he is
              clearly worse off. The prices of the things he buys will
              rise by more than his income rises from the elimination of
              income and payroll taxes.

              Already found errors, and I haven’t even finished the first page. Excluding those “evil rich people” who “game the system” by generating most of their income through capital gains, most people paying less than 23% in income tax will have a significant portion of their consumption be tax free due to the “prebate.” According to the Fair Tax folks, somebody would be paying 11.5% on $63,720 of spending, whereas, according to your source, somebody making the same income will be paying approximately 14% on roughly $63k of income. (cont.)

              1. Another obvious miss here is that comparing consumption and income is imperfect. The best way of looking is at how much money they have to spend excluding tax. Assuming that you have a similar standard of living, your income is going to be significantly higher than your consumption (precisely because your taxes are taken out of your income). Assuming that we’re comparing two people at the same disposable income (I’m using $67,600 as an example), the Fair Tax person has to pay (according to my math) a 12.2% tax rate on $67,600 disposable income. The Income Tax person (according to your source) is at a 17.2% tax rate, because they need to be making $81,700 before tax to have $67,600 to spend after tax.

                To simplify it even more, A person making $81,700 today would have a spare $5900 every year on the Fair Tax.

                1. That strawman Bartlet beat up is in pretty bad shape, wouldn’t you say?
                  And turd? Well, what do you expect? Turd = lies.

          2. like a fat woman sitting on a bug.

            Leave you sex life out of this.

        2. See above; typical turd lies.

  12. How libertarian will the GOP be?

    Umm… wut? Where am I?

    Zach Weissmueller & Paul Detrick

    Who the fuck are these guys? They’re funny guys!

  13. I smellz ze trollz upthread. Whew… it’s stinky! And stupidz!

  14. I tend to be on the side of open borders for a variety of reasons…. and while I’m not (as much as) a dick about it like cytotoxic…i tend to agree with the sorts of basic stuff he’s citing.

    …that said = i sincerely think Immigration is something that libertarians are going to have to suck up and take a hit on if they have any intention of making headway on anything remotely like

    – ending the drug war
    – ending domestic surveillance
    – reducing miltary intervention
    – reversing the current trend which reduces personal and economic freedoms, etc.

    Those are all things that the general public is increasingly open to. Mexicans, not so much.

    Ive suggested incrementalism is the only way libertarians are going to make progress. Some people (maybe this is what frankie was accusing me of) say that this is heresy; I think its just practical political reality.

    1. I agree. I’m not sure where I stand on open borders philosophically (it seems implicitly attached to the minarchy v. anarchy debate), but I know for damn sure that it’s a non-starter in modern politics. Incrementalism is the only practical way (as it is on so many libertarian issues).

    2. I’m for open borders too, as long as there’s no welfare state benefits going to everyone who decides they want to walk across the border.

      Seriously, you cannot have both, it’s a disaster in the making.

      1. Yes you can. There is no correlation between immigration population in 1990 and welfare monies doled out in 2011. Cato did the study.

    3. “Open borders” isn’t on the political table. You’re either for comprehensive immigration reform more or less as it passed the senate nor you’re against it. There’s no piecemeal reforms, and certainly no “comprehensive libertarian open borders” plan. Reason favors the e-verify, path to citizenship, increasing restrictive H1b visas, not open immigration of those who now qualify for H1b, more money for more border patrol agents…the whole shit sandwich.

      On a somewhat related note: search this site for a critical appraisal of TPP. It’s there, right up until they shitcanned Zenon Evans who wrote all of them. After 2013 it’s all pro-TPP shit and bashing anyone opposed as a protectionist. Poor Zenon. He coulda covered the SJW campus beat like Robby but he outed himself as a dirty rightwing protectionist who opposed coercing our Pacific neighbors into extending copywrite indefinitely.

      1. Reason favors the e-verify

        Stop lying.

    4. How are any of these connected to each other? There is no set of levers in which manipulating the immigration issue improves the drug war or domestic surveillance issues. What does any of this mean in practice?

      It’s not as if libertarians will start getting elected if they change their stance on immigration.

      Or is the compromise in terms of voting for GOP candidates? That’s for each individual voter to decide, but it’s not like we’re the important marginal voters here. I’ll vote for someone great on the drug war but meh on borders, unless I think their policies necessitate some intrusive tactics. I don’t want DEA agents to just move over to ICE, or the NSA to turn their attention to domestic employers or land owners or whatever.

    5. I am only as much of a dick as the world forces me to be!

      I will take a hit and not drive for open borders. I will NOT take a hit if that means accepting E-verify, border walls, the constitution-free zone around the borders, ICE thugs, etc. These things are as bad as the other things you’ve listed.

  15. I don’t think that was a very great list. Slamming Huckabee as a socon is great and all, but counting him saying the government doesn’t need to be paying for soldiers to have gender reassignment surgery is not exactly scathingy anti-libertarian.

    And his listing of prostitutes, pimps and drug dealers was as examples of people who are currently skirting the income tax and would not be able to skirt the consumption tax he supports. Sure, we don’t love taxes, but there are loads of libertarians on board with burning down the income tax and replacing it with the fair tax.

    Trump railing against illegal immigration was pretty reasonable to put on an anti-libertarian list, but there is no way that this was higher up the list than Christie’s assertion that because he hugged relatives of people who died on 911 and he was conscientious as a prosecutor in using FISA warrants, we should give much, much more power to the Feds to investigate us and collect info on us and we should “trust that they will not abuse that power”. Holy crap, it would be almost impossible to get more unlibertarian than that. That wraps pretty much everything we stand against up in a big fancy bow.

    1. And even though every libertarian would definitely be down with the “politicians are idiots” meme, it is hardly a uniquely held opinion of libertarians. I realize this was the punchline and not a true analysis of the most libertarian moment, but if a screeching defense of the 4th amendment against a federal prosecutor hellbent on expanding the hole ripped in that protection over the last decade isn’t far and away the most libertarian moment the Republicans put up, I don’t know what would be.

    2. Rand Paul is the only person on that stage who has verifiable libertarian credentials. The only other person who can even come close is Ted Cruz.

      Name me one thing that any of the rest of them have ever done to prove themselves as being anything even close to libertarian?

      I mean to be fair, there are a couple of them, like Ben Carson and Carly who have never held public office, but I have listened to both of them some, and I wouldn’t expect either of them to be anything outside of very disappointing for a libertarian.

      1. Walker is not libertarian, but his reforms were copacetic to our cause. At least he’s good for something.


    I’m willing to bet that intersection of Trump fans and Piers Morgan fans is zero. In fact, I would guess that most Trump fans loathe Piers. So, will this cost him any fans?

    1. I don’t much like either of them. Well, I know that Trump is not serious about being president and at worst he’s a dem plant. But I despise Piers Morgan and I am totally in favor of deporting the limey shit by loading him into a cannon that can shoot his ass all the way across the Atlantic back to Limeytardia.

      1. I know that Trump is not serious about being president

        Maybe he did not start out with serious intentions, but the longer he stays at the top, why the fuck not be serious?

        1. He doesn’t want to be president. I really am beginning to believe that he’s trying to help Hillary.

          Let me ask you this. If you were a billionaire who could do anything you want or have anything you want at any time, would you want to waste at least 4 years of your life in a job like that?

          I wouldn’t even consider it. And I really don’t know why he’s doing this unless he just really likes the Clintons and wants to totally fuck the GOP.

          But I will predict this. He won’t be around much longer. He’ll be out long before the primaries.

          1. “If you were a billionaire who could do anything you want or have anything you want at any time, would you want to waste at least 4 years of your life in a job like that?”


            Its a real thing.

            I agree he’ll be gone by November.

            1. Of course it’s a real thing. But by the time you are Trumps age and you have that much money, I don’t think ego is any longer that much of a factor.

              There’s just not that much in it for Trump. Unless he really cared about changing the direction of the country, you know, really had a passion for that, I don’t see the motivation. And I don’t think he gives a shit.

            2. Yeah. Presuming he (or the Clintons) have some grand plan presumes an intelligence nit in evidence.
              He’s a bumbling idiot, not as ‘clever’ as Clinton.

              1. He’s hardly an idiot.

                1. “He’s hardly an idiot.”

                  I’ve yet to see evidence otherwise.

        2. Because the men with guns in the government aren’t going to let someone like that be president. They will either frame him for kiddie-porn or shoot him or something, a Trump presidency would be an existential threat to the country, they won’t allow it.

    2. If those two aren’t fighting in some sort of cage I’m going to be very disappointed.

    3. Those are two of the worst people on earth.

      Therefore, a debate between the two of them would be YUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.

      If they could get vince mcmahon to moderate, I’d pay-per-view it.

    4. Warty, that HC History link was great. He makes a strong case while admitting the bombing wasn’t an ethical slam dunk.

      1. Yeah, it was a good one.

        I like the Hardcore History podcasts quite a bit. His political podcasts are unlistenable, though.

        1. Logical insanity. Road to hell… I was surprised he didn’t bring up Socrates and the- it’s better to be the victim of injustice than the perpetrator. That seemed the crux of the issue.

  17. Although Trump is an anti-liberty idiot who wants to build a 1500 mile wall and impose 25% tariffs I am starting to like his campaign style more and more.

    Trump has tapped into the essence of the GOP – redneck immigrant haters and flag wavers who think trade isolation is a way to cut the 5.3% UE rate.

    You GOP goons – if you can’t get a job when UE is 5.3% maybe you need to visit a movie theater or church with yer guns a blazin’!

    1. You GOP goons

      Way to tell all the unabashedly Team Red people who post here regularly, dude!

      1. Just on this thread we have ‘Winston’ and PapayaSF and Sevo – all Team Red sister-boys.

        1. “Sevo – all Team Red sister-boys”
          turd, you repeat this lie ever time I catch you bullshittying and you have yet to find one time I pitched the Rs.
          So, just keep it up; it adds to your lie totals which are pretty damn impressive. BTW, have you looked at your ‘non-lie’ totals?
          Me neither, can’t find it.

      2. “Way to tell all the unabashedly Team Red people who post here regularly, dude!”

        Especially coming from a lying POS who knows one word:
        But he knows how to lick Obo ass!

  18. You know, I’ve been over at WaPo for a couple of hours and I was over there a couple hours yesterday, trying to have a logical conversation with morons.

    And I was thinking, I need to go out to Reason to get a breath of fresh air and sanity.

    And what would you know, the biggest fucking moron on the internet shows up.

    1. Don’t be so fucking hard on Sevo. His brain got snagged by a Planned Parenthood organ seller.

      1. “Don’t be so fucking hard on Sevo”

        Poor turd. Poor, poor turd. So sad.

        1. Lick the left side of my ballsack just a little more, Sevo.

          1. Palin’s Buttplug|8.8.15 @ 9:43PM|#
            “Lick the left side of my ballsack just a little more, Sevo”
            Sorry, you need commie kid or Tony; that way you can get a groups suck going.
            Oh, and when did you last fuck your daddy?

  19. OT – Law professor leaves reservation, praises jury nullifcation:

    “while the power of juries to let guilty people go free in the name of justice is treated as suspect and called “jury nullification,” the power of prosecutors to do the exact same thing is called “prosecutorial discretion,” and is treated not as a bug, but as a feature in our justice system. But there’s no obvious reason why one is better than the other. Yes, prosecutors are professionals ? but they’re also politicians, which means that their discretion may be employed politically. And they’re repeat players in the justice system, which makes them targets for corruption in a way that juries ? laypeople who come together for a single case ? aren’t.”…../31124011/

    1. Nice. Jury nullification is definitely one of the most powerful tools of the people, that we aren’t using.

      1. Tinfoil hat concern: Big brother uses meta collection to go after uppity juries that defy da law or at least make them worry it’s possible. I wish I could throw DAs as far as I trust them.

        1. I wish I could throw DAs as far as I trust them.

          I think you got a switcharoo in there somewhere.

    2. Glenn “Instapundit” Reynolds has not been “on the reservation” in a long time. In a good way.

  20. If Walker or Bush wins the nomination, the Republican Party won’t be libertarian at all.

    Gun rights.

    That’s all the establishment GOP’s got.

    I guess it’s better than nothin’.

    1. Heh, if anyone other than Rand or Cruz doesn’t win, it won’t be libertarian at all.

    2. I thought Obama already took away all the guns?

      Well, I have mine. But all you’rn!

      1. “I thought Obama already took away all the guns?”
        Not yet, turd, but he’s trying. I’m sure you see that as a positive.

    3. Hey come one Walker isn’t the one you should be picking on. Of the candidates not named Cruz or Rand he’s one of the best! Which isn’t saying much besides he’s useful for something.

  21. How Libertarian Will the GOP Be This Election Season?

    That depends on what the definition of “is” is…And I am not hopeful of words or their definitions given that scotus recently ruled that words do not mean what they say.

  22. As President I promise to give you whatever you want, as long as what you want is graft, corruption, incompetence and misery!

    1. And speeches. Lots of speeches.

    2. As President I promise to give you whatever you want

      As Almanian!’s (self-proclaimed) running mate, I promise nothing other than that we probably won’t make it any worse.

  23. Blacks don’t like Bernie the Socialist:…..rni/nnGDm/


  24. Cannibals

    You are never going to hear Bernie speak if I don’t hear silence now,” Johnson said when some in the massive the crowd at Westlake Center called out for Sanders to be allowed to speak. “Now that you’ve covered yourself in your white supremacist liberalism, I will formally welcome Bernie Sanders to Seattle.”

    After a tussle for the microphone and stand off between event organizers and protesters, Sanders left.

    Don’t tell Krugabe abut this. It would break his little heart.

    1. WTF? One of the socialists’ demonstrated skills is violence – this would have been the time for Bernie’s people to show this skill.

      Yo there, wench, are you aware that the decision not to prosecute Michael Brown’s “killer” was made by the OBAMA Justice Department? So go and try to disrupt one of Obama’s events.

      Unless of course you’re just a chickenshit.

      1. Disclaimer for the benefit of any US attorneys out there: I am *against* disrupting Obama events, I’m simply curious about why Miss Speechus Interruptus is against such actions.

      1. trigger warning: retardation

        1. No need, we already know ButtClown is here.

        2. Not…. prepared….for how bad…. only made it about 10 seconds before the chick decided to “Inform” the populace that “this place called Seattle… WHICH IS ACTUALLY OCCUPIED INDIAN LAND….”

          had to stop there. headache starting already.

          1. She goes on to decry a $210 million dollar prison and abusive cops, so… partial win, I guess?

            1. Insofar as all these Bernie supporters blame hillary for this BLM-smear on bernie, I see win-win

              that, and yeah, the hardcore left tends to destroy itself and take the moderate left down with them. i see nothing but good coming from the SJW element.

              Its just that i don’t want to have to hear them speak, ever, ever again.

              1. When I was in high school I spent a lot of time hanging out with this really enthusiastically born-again Christian girl. She was nice enough, but since I’m an atheist she seemed to take it as her personal mission from on high to convert me. So she takes me to some mixer at her church, and toward the end of the evening some teenage girl not much younger than we takes the stage and begins exhorting the gathering of presumably faithful attendees to save themselves, for God’s sake save themselves for Jesus, because Jesus loves unconditionally etc. She was so horribly impassioned, and her pleas so plaintive, that my friend was scowling angry and terribly embarrassed to be associated at all. That’s what the girl from the video reminds me of, someone most Democrats view as eccentric bordering on humiliating.

                (Ten years later I was a principal reason for my friend’s divorce from her husband, so, you know, Commodious 1, Jesus 0.)

                1. Read the comments.

                  @ Huffpo, and elsewhere ….the opinion from the Bernie fans is basically “livid hatred”, not ’embarrassment’.

                  The fact is, for all their “alliances” and their constant moaning about ‘people of color’, etc…. SJW-proggy types really don’t actually mix-well with real, live Black People. They really don’t like being yelled at.

                  1. Social justice is nothing if not carnivorous. Like a pamphleteer dispensing his broadsheets spiked on a bayonet.

                2. “She was so horribly impassioned, and her pleas so plaintive, that my friend was scowling angry and terribly embarrassed to be associated at all.”

                  “Jews for Jesus”, outside the topless joints on Broadway, late ’60s.
                  (get off my lawn!)

                  1. Good God, was that a thing?

                    1. Jews For Jesus are a NYC thing. They’ve been around forever. They’re like the Times Square Black Israelites who dress up like extras from Lord of the Rings…. only (a lot) less colorful. incredibly boring in fact. their main stomping ground last time i noted them was the Union Square station. Lots of traffic, generally clean-ish, no worry about the weather. They hand out their little pamphlets with the cute cartoons on them and i tend to take them and read them on the subway.

                      I’ve never understood the appeal, even slightly. I think you have to start out as a very-religious jew, then discover the wonders of Jeebus, and decide the two go wonderfully mixed together, like milk and orange juice.

                    2. It’s not a put-on, then? Clever begging act, like the naked cowboy or those garish fucking knock-off Disney mascots?

                    3. OK, I didn’t know they were that obscure:
                      You do know about the Breatharians, right?

                    4. Dunno whether he was a breatharian, but James Randi’s story about busting one of his million-dollar contestants who claimed to be permanently fasting buying a big mac made me laugh.

                    5. “Dunno whether he was a breatharian, but James Randi’s story about busting one of his million-dollar contestants who claimed to be permanently fasting buying a big mac made me laugh.”

                      That was the *founder* of the Breatharians, and as I recall, he simply claimed he hadn’t yet accomplished the full transition.
                      After scarfing up Micky Ds in San Rafael for, what ten years?

                    6. No, JFJ are 100% sincere.

                      You couldn’t imagine a less-successful begging scam. Their hit-rate must be like 1/10,000th of Amway. Like, single-digit converts per-year. Barely covering attrition as their members “get a life”

                      But remarkably, they’ve been around for decades, as noted. I didn’t know they’d made it to the West coast at all.

                    7. G, they were here in the ’60s.

                    8. “Jews For Jesus are a NYC thing.”
                      If so, they flew to SF on a regular basis.
                      Anyhow, the folks pitching “The Watchtower” (Seventh Day Adventists?) who were forever claiming that a Ouija board was a dangerous fantasy used to work the other corners and I tried to get a secular war started between them.
                      Never succeeded. Damn!

                    9. The Watchtower is Jehovah’s Witnesses.

                    10. Nuts. I get confused.
                      Those guys.

                3. Commodious, in the trenches, fighting the good fight.

      2. The quiet one was doable

        1. *ahem* She’s at a social justice rally giving silent support for her sister in arms. That’s about as don’table as they come. (and don’t you dare expect her to you patriarchal shitlord because her orgasms are for her pleasure alone and not some sort of affirmation of your horribly rapey masculinity and how does she know you didn’t slip her something OH MY GOD WHAT WAS IN HER DRINK)

    2. About 20% of them seem to blame Hillary for sending the BLM hit-squad after Bernie

      1. *the comments @ huffpo, that is

        1. If Hillary has lost the HuffPo crowd, she is truly fucking toast.

          Seriously, if there is a break in the hive cult that is the leftist democrats, we are well on our way to winning.

          We can just get down to it once the infidels have eliminated the establishment of team red and team blue.

          Then it’s real. The final battle between good and evil. Libertarians vs the Commies, round one.

          1. “”we are well on our way to winning.””

            Well, Hillary would be on her way to losing…which is something.

            the other half is getting someone at least less-retarded than Bush (Rand, maybe Walker) to get the GOP nod.

            1. Barack Obama’s greatest accomplishment?

              Yes, he really does have one.

              Sparing us all from Hillary Clinton becoming President.

              A close 2nd, sparing us all from McCain ever becoming president.

              He may be the only reason why any of us are still alive.

    3. I do love that the person who confiscated the microphone started making demands. Petty little tyrant.

  25. My fucking face grows dangerous finger that nimbly eats stars of the space named by those fucking avatars in these threads. A fuck star constellation of deep lake fuck letters trapped by my mind galaxies.

    1. Word, bro.

  26. reason outlands are depositing verb tunnels into the assholes of new ages

  27. As President, I offer everyone free streaming 4K porn, free internet, and subsidized mexican ass sex.

    1. Do you have a Czarship for me, Mr. President?

      1. Well one of my positions will be legalized, regulated prostitution. I need someone to make sure they are following the rules. A ‘ho Czar if you will. Interested?

        1. Sure, Mr. President, I can do this job. Oh, can I do it. I’m gonna be the best Ho Czar ever!

    2. Boo! You said nothing about subsidized porn for the blind, or ass sex for those in urban communities who can’t afford donkeys.

  28. My fucking face feels like a billion orange winds. I can press a FUCKING button.

  29. Rand Paul needs to get beat up and have his fucking pretty face broke by my dick and then I would punch his motherfuk ribs and bash his asshole with my fucking elbows and then agile would pull out an eyeball and put itfucking back in….and then I wouldFUCKING grind his nipples off with my chainsaw and send a ton of gerbils to ask commission to fuck his wifes holes and if she refused the tons of gerbils would fuck all Paul holes…

    because. Paul.. you were raised by a doctor in a fucking neighborhood where everyone sucked your motherFUCK cock.

    rand paul…

    get gangsta… or FUCKING lose. bitch.

    Fcukin drop that motherfucking sweet slim neighborhood shit.


    NEVER drop your head in the hood. EVER.

    LOOK UP. ALWAYS LOOK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER LOOK DOWN. I hope you motherfucking whores running paul campaign can muster up the angst to look down on rank words you fuckers weren’t taught in campaign college.

    1. I saw all the capslock and figured it for a Christie rant.

  30. Look, upthread there’s a troll who hate us all. Awww, sooo sad. Anyone else feelz sad?

    1. I love hyp

      1. I love you too man. I’m not gay, damnit! Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

        1. I’m not gay, damnit!

          Do you know who else isn’t gay?

          1. Rick Santorum? Oh, wait, mabye he’s gay. Umm, Lindsey Graham! Umm, ok no, I need to come up with a sure fire not gay… I give up…

          2. Super galax is Crust real world and when the bitches add carrots a new motherfucking blackfisted snap stream roll up top and beneath the flocks of tires and all those super lobsters and tanks of super crusty wanga wionga Juggloso ,doom 150 and 50 amd /

    2. Quit sniffing my ass, hyperion. You know you like the smell.

      You’re just another conservative Jeb voter in the end.


      1. You’re still retarded. Your persistence raises the possibility that you are Tulpa.

  31. Paul look like a MOTHERFUCKING laser at your oppoennenets.

    Body language wins humans, Paul.

    Agile learned this in the ghetto and gangstar language is powerful up on beneath and on top the rainbow.

    1. What about Rand’s hair?


    2. I think he needs to borrow a little ballz from Carly. Carly gots the ballz. That thing she does with her lips after destroying an opponent sort of creeps me out, but she gotz da ballz.

  32. Anyone else feelz sad?

    I am wracked by bereavement and remorse.

    1. Ya kinda wonder if, along with fucking his daddy and licking Obo ass, he’s into cops. I mean he claims X is a right winger and then immediately gives in to his sexual fantasies about X.
      So while I don’t quite share the depths of your concern, it seems a valid subject of academic study. For someone else.

    2. Sorry, bro. You have my permission to drankz moar. Or, you know, whatever else the fuck you want to do to relieve your suffering.

  33. I’ve only watched the first debate. This had to be one of my favorite questions from Martha, who seemed like she delved into soapbox territory multiple times.

    MACCALLUM: All right. This question to Carly Fiorina. The FBI director Comey says that terrorists can thrive here at home because they go dark and they recruit behind the cyber walls that are built by American companies like Google and Apple.
    Comey says this is a big problem. Rand Paul says that the government forcing these companies to bring down those walls would be a big privacy issue and a dangerous way to go on this. You’ve been a tech leader in this country. Which side are you on?

    1. I live and my families live and we expect to breathe air but in a world full of killers and assassins and terrorrists why can me and my families EXPECT that we can survive a comp;licated world without guns and thinking brains and popping strategies that have NOTHING to do with that shit provided my Hillary’s shitty government?

  34. Trump is a billion buck wafer with super awesome cheese that shitheads he hires eats… I don’t want to eat trump wafers but i would like to punch him in the balls.
    Bush is a religious extension of Bush rivers and all the Bush canoes and their cute family church but everyone is tired of their fucking worthless church
    My Ohio gov that fuck Kasich fuck… I know nothing about this establishment fuck so I hate him in spite of his shitty existence that hates fireworks and pot. so FUCK that shitty FUCK Kasich.
    Christian Carson the lone nigger wants wars that creates and fosters Nazi underground tech
    Rubio is a fucking shit stick that trains forever in a Bush state that enjoys imprisoning forever people who enjoy sativa so Rubio is a Bush cum drop.
    cruz is shakespeare but he’d be a firebrand on law… all people like me would be raped up the ass by Cruz.
    Walker? Fucking local heel who is imperial establishment. HARDCORE suicidal RNC with a bomb strapped on his asscheeks.
    Huckabee?should be reading books on tape. his voice is FUCKING awesome but his mind is a single state trap. And I actually LIKE this FUCKING baptist but he is almost as horrible as Hillary and Rahm.

    1. Preach AC!

    2. Talk about Carly, AC, let’s get down on some Carly here, amigo.

      1. Baby, Carly is adept.
        Carly is a seasoned ninja.
        Carly canNOT adapt to Libertarian philosophy.
        Carly is hardcore corp estab. backed with super hot conservatives in tight ties
        Carly has never read the constitution
        Like most of her piers…. aside from Paul

  35. So does that Win 10 chick talk dirty? Asking for a friend.

    1. Yes, but only in an attempt to get you to reveal personal information about yourself so she can report you to the NSA as a terrorist.

      1. I….I mean my friend can work with that.

        1. To pharmacist:
          ‘My friend here would like some purple ointment’.

  36. OT:…

    After all, relatively few people today are aware of Canada’s having had such a successful system; and most current writings on U.S. monetary history don’t even refer to it. That one can read one official Federal Reserve account after another of that history, and especially of the Fed’s origins, without hearing so much as a whisper about Canada’s having had a well-working banking and currency system, albeit one without a central bank, goes without saying.

    1. Originally Canadians used moose dung for currency, then switched to maple syrup, finally they settled on the US Quarter.

      1. The moose dung era was bad, but I must say maple syrup makes a delicious currency.

        1. Especially when it rained. Santorum everywhere.

  37. Does anyone else think Lindsey Graham sounds like Cleveland from Family Guy?

    1. Does Cleveland sound like whiny fucking giant pussy with a southern accent? If so, then yes.

          1. Grahman is very more feminine like sounding.

            1. He wanted to grow up to be a beautiful southern bell.

              1. Belle too…

            2. It’s so funny when he trying to talk tough

              1. I always envision him sItting around in his pajama boy jammies with feet and playing with plastic army men. ‘Take that, ISIS! I am the Lindsey! Take that BAM BAM, GRRRR’.

                1. lol:)

    2. He’s the C3P0 of American politics.

    3. At this point I just kind of wish Graham would come out of the closet and embrace his gay warmongering side. The Thebians kicked ass back in the day with an all gay special forces unit, let’s try bringing that back.

  38. i am struggling with liking the FUCking world of internet
    and tv culture.

    I will ALWAYS love my reason gods and queens.

    i cannot love the modern thing of voting. they all stare down guns and flex their muscles for old people. and the young are scared by military which is appropriate but they wish to grow a central planning of millions of rules and regulations.

    What is modern America?

    1. what I love about modern America is that we can personalize everything. Thanks in great part to the internet. I don;t have 3 radio stations to choose from I have 3000. Instead of 3 tv stations, not only do I have a plethora of cable channels dedicated to certain things, we have Youtube videos of how to do most anything. I can shop from retailers across the globe. I can have conversations with people across the globe. I carry a device in my pocket that lets me find the answer to any question I might have. I have maps of the entire world in my pocket. It’s a fucking awesome world!

      1. My first internet revelation was going on a forum and I’m talking to someone from the United Arab Emirates. I’m like everything just changed.

  39. ‘John’ aka ‘Red Tony’ – the Team Red cheerleader who posts loving posts to any GOPer says we need a WHITE REPUBLICAN president to handle the Ebola and ISIS situations.


    1. Hillary is your white girl, baby.

      1. He’s licking those cankles.

        1. Isn’t he precious? Do you agree he licks cops brass buttons, along with licking Obo ass?

          1. Well, he’s still trying to decide what old white person to support. His choices are the old white lady, the old white socialist, Mayor Carcetti, and whatshisname.

  40. Anyone hear some background noise or something? Sort of annoying, but only background noise.

    1. I didn’t hear shit. Must be your imagination.

  41. can Palin Buttplug’s girl fix that shithole of horrible fucking diseases on the lonely shitty side of Africa which not a single person can fix except for PaliN BUTTPLUG’s GIRL… that old grandma HILLARY…
    C/mon… let us heal some ebola palin and Hillary…

  42. the stars don’t trust us
    but we don’t have to trust them
    we all pretend to be mad as fuck
    but a million hearts don’t have time.

    we fuck around and vote and all the bullshit
    but love in the stones thinks its great and the
    boy and girl rise above the piano keys
    of reality and tip tap the boy and girl
    who’ve loved and fucked like they all do
    after the alarm

  43. Having to look after the roommate’s fish while he’s away. The food claims “Now with garlic!” for some reason. Opened it up, and it does indeed smell revoltingly like garlic fish food. I can’t get the smell out of my nostrils. Maybe bottomless G&Ts; will help.

    1. that sounds gross

    2. Are fish supposed to eat garlic? WTF? How does that work, does garlic normally grow in water? I mean, I know it’s a popular way to buy it now, but I thought they put it in the water, not that it grew there.

      1. That being said, I fucking love the smell of garlic. We use it a lot for cooking.

    3. Girls&Tramps;?

      1. Goats and Tequila

        1. Gimps & Toadies?

        2. Gypsies and sheep

          1. *tsheep

    4. Bottomless G&T’s help with many things, Mr. Spitoon.

      1. Speaking of, where’s Sweating Gin been? Did he swap handles?

        1. Good question….since the Great Redaction, i have lost track of who is who, just a bit.

  44. Just went to They have Gold on their market tracker with the dow. nasdaq. and s&p. That’s the first time I’ve seen that.

    1. based on the advertisements i’ve seen on Fox on the rare occasions that i watch TV… they get a lot of commercials during “special report” for schlocky Gold-Hawkers. Ron Paul has even done an “The World Could End Tomorrow”-Ad which i despise…. which I believe was *also* for one of these schlocky Gold-Hawkers which mask themselves as “financial advisors”

      *technically, they may in fact be Series 65 FINRA ‘registered investment advisors’ – which just means they’re regulated under the RIA act, not that they necessarily do anything beyond flog gold certificates. Some are probably are partnered with an actual brokerage that can create individual accounts/IRAs etc.

      Anyway, ^GLD has always been a common ticker at places like CNBC, but its appearance at Fox news may be due to pressure from advertisers.

      1. Ahh, Yeah, could be. I’ve seen it on a ticker before but just have never seen it posted with the big three like that.

        1. CNBC was running gold on their ticker around the ’08 crisis, right? I think I remember them doing so. They certainly had it in rotation with stocks.

      2. “Ron Paul has even done an “The World Could End Tomorrow”-Ad”
        I’ve seen the web tease. Did he actually do an ad, or was it a ‘sampling’ of his comments?

        1. No, it was a full-on infomercial with Ron Paul as the star

          the way it was done suggests that there’s a longer version – the one airing on fox is pretty corny. Its chock full of insinuations about evil conspiracies in the world and potential looming apocalypses, and how he can’t tell it all on TV but if you call they’ll send you their information package… blah blah blah. It was on the tone-level of some of his dumber, 1980s newsletters. But the underlying sales pitch was (from what I could tell) basically just more of this Gold/Silver commodity-flogging. which is basically more lowbrow than penny-stock/pink-sheet boiler-room brokerage shit. Its targeting old people who are constantly panicking that their current financial advisors are stealing pennies out of their purses (*many are. i’ve worked in and around that environment)

          Does the guy really need money that bad? Its got to be no help at all to Rand to have dad amplifying his kookiness on prime-time TV.

          1. Man, that’s a sorry tale!
            I know there’s accounting that always favors the firm over the customer, but shrinkage happens most everywhere, and I kinda build a ‘correction factor’ into the fees we pay to get real numbers.
            But pitching commodities as a solution? WIH would commodity brokers be more honest that those offering equities or interest?
            I’m sorry to hear about that.

          2. From what I understand, Ron Paul believes in what he preaches, and didn’t become a multi-millionaire from his stint in congress. Unlike a few other congresscritters who went from rags to riches during their ‘public service’.

            He has a decent retirement package from his time in congress, but that only puts him at retired doctor levels of rich. He’s not Clinton ‘dead broke’ rich. He’s also a bit of a gold-bug, so he might actually believe in the product he’s selling.

            1. The fact that Ron believes what he says does not improve the situation. See ‘blowback’ for more insanity.

  45. a arm rolls up like a cobra
    a cobra bites the fucking air
    and tires screamalingus undra the tundra
    and my FUCKING fingers don’t give a single shit
    about tripping dimension and fucking LED’s popping and tropping
    in the trumpet bins. I don’t give a single fuck about the fact that every single fucking reality within 3 inches of my fucking cock isnt real…. nothing is real… your FUCKING millions are NOT FUCKING real
    YOUR BILLIONS are not real. YOUR SINGLE FUCKING dollar is not real. HUMans are NOT real.
    Stars are NOT real. Air is real but your and my arms are fake/ ,my knees are fake and my asshole is fake
    and my eyeballs are plastic shit fucks I see nothing but what the FBI CIA JESUS wants me 2 sea/
    up thrump dump camp thermo
    fuck the ;o

    1. up thrump dump camp thermo
      fuck the ;o


  46. my fuckin dad told me when i was 15 that i had to confess my sins with a horrible fuck pastor fuck…
    raised in a cult…
    I broke tons of laws of the cult
    and I created a fucking
    sketch on day in 88
    that would scare the fuck culture in 2015/

    a young dude facing cult hammer in the late 80’s strikes me as similar to modern times.

    modern times have become the 50’s. modern time is modern? Political correctness is super powerful just like before ‘outta Compton”/

    1. There is no doubt about it….you are an interesting man.

      1. Swiss is a ufo monster
        a veil broken by space dragons
        seeking a clawed town
        where the scared minds
        lurked behind the the church
        doors and the lasers smashed for \a\
        k8illion of years and Swiss twang wringa
        caught a sliver ufo and slipt the schleptp\\
        abanga wangs wings under in point bumbers

        1. Swiss is better than that, and we wish him well!

          1. I dunno, wish I could catch a UFO…I would go all Fox Mulder.

    2. I grew up in the cult too, bro. Sins for which I must be punished. If it feels good, it’s wrong. And then I broke loose, I cut some corners. I began my career as a sinner, and it was good. It felt good. And the invisible sky god did not show up to strike me down and I became more bold. And then after consuming mass quantities of feelz good illicit and sinful things, I came face to face with the invisible sky god. And he said to me ‘let us reason together’. And I said ‘fuck this shit, I really hate communists and I like women and beer and I want to feel good’. And he said ‘go forth, Hyperion, and be libertarian’. And so it was.

  47. If you don’t want to be called and isolationist
    look those fucks in the eyes and calmly posit
    that you are not interested in battles and wars that kill the bright children.

    if you desire to avoid Chris FUCKING Christie SHITTY hug letters of the fallen tower families
    look CHRIS in the eyes and ask how many bodies he has hugged that have died in Bush’s IRAQ war and Obama’s Afghanistan war and Obama’s assassin drones.

    That miserable shit toad in a state not a single FUCKING family with money would visit called NJ
    run by that horrible fuckface Christy….

  48. a million eyeballs hate the FUCKINGSTANG of horriblinguwo
    pl3ase make america not scum.
    a fuk face is eating my arms
    and my legs are melting
    i am trippin so FUK deep
    BUT i love my Amraica and i love bikinis and i love enb and i lovemy abstractions of fingra plucks
    my vapors amd backtacka
    amd toes which
    if i end songs with modern words I can type loving words for my boys

  49. the fingers bleed love
    on the atoms of muse
    and the stars revealed within the clouds
    of peace and trams//
    I purchased a ticket into the great deep space shifts
    and a lonely railroad of spaceships
    ;eft ,,my soul fucked in a desert/

  50. this town
    is special
    this tired desert
    is wind beaten
    this town is a
    spectrum of brilliant minds
    staggering in the winds of the galaxy

    I love you,brilliant reason gods

  51. underneath the laws
    of colors and clouds
    and mountains I find
    my cats with revealed stars
    hunting the galacactical runes
    where the trumpets and
    and aside minds trips under
    pulsing rainbow cloud
    filled with old stars
    and screaming pulsing cries of notes
    that demand my face to let loose droplets
    of feeling like tired clouds ,man…
    the body is a letter.
    ty[ed amd ticked and ta[[ed
    com[;ocated because i am FKD up

      1. Caress is a wolverine of thread love
        hunting his tactics
        Caress, the wolverine travels into the
        greatest deep and under the arctic shelf
        Caress finds his killing fields….

  52. pound pound
    feel feel fell
    feel felled
    pound felled
    feeling pounded and
    i felt the pounding
    pounding felting
    felling pound prim pram
    salive dripping on my lip

  53. are the fronds
    under the yawns
    felt like rivulets
    of glances in the
    sweet ohio yard where
    the grasses are so fuck
    trimmed next to the tall pines and
    you can lie in the trimmed grasses
    and feel so fucking free like nothing
    before so fucking free under the
    blue skies under the green lawns in the deep summers
    wallowing like you will NEVER if you live in LA or NY//

  54. oh man… no tall city can make me love a stack of lights.
    my arms and body have rolled in the dreams of grasses
    wallowing like a mid American hippo… american grass
    is sooo fucking dreamy.
    I live in the brilliant mini stems, baby… I love American grass

  55. A sweet girl I knew in 89
    sat on the monument block
    and told me how much she
    enjoyed trains.

    as a forced follower of christ…
    I researched her ‘trains’ and….

  56. Billy McFinkerston sold me his paper route in 86 and this fuck delivered papers for like fucking 4 years in mid-to high fucking school

    Billy McFinkerston’s boss was the Alive Jesus Boy in a Black Fucking Very Cool Monte Carlo..
    And Billy McFinkerston’s boss had a car that thrived and throbbed with a million Trumps…

    I once as a 14 year old Toledo Blade FUCK sat in Alive Jesus Boy’s PERFECT Monte Carlo and velvet ate my dick and my nipples and knees died and i sputtered a fucking one word and this god and his Monte Carlo and I cried upon the curb he let me upon and…
    that shit was so FUCKING awesome that a billion stars could NOT be more awesome….

    1. Riveting, commodius.

      1. That’s my spirit animal, warts and all. Neurotic, venal, anxiety-prone, a wannabe academic, but hopelessly mediocre.

        1. What? are you insane? I’m so fucked up I can’t even address this fucking shit….

          Fuck you… you are insanely awe.

          1. I’m not going to try to speak for you, but I imagine if you’re like any of my artistic friends from years past, you look into yourself and you see this maddening vortex of possibility. Whereas I look into myself and I see a staid environment in which all that is best is best kept utterly pristine, like a bone China tea set that nobody is allowed to use. And the second anybody thinks to upset the delicate balance, it’s all gone to hell and everything falls apart Yeats-like.

            Granted, it’s my spirit animal. I’m not as inflexible or hopelessly stuck up as all that. But I do have a deep affinity for Mark’s character, even if I hate him. Especially because I hate him. He hates himself. It’s unremarkable and utterly predictable.

  57. my boss in 84 was a fucking hot slick back in a Monte Carlo that was a picture of PERFECTION.
    I was a HORRIBLE paperboy in 86/
    i through Micheal Prestons book across the street and he hated me for this
    sadly Mike is dead…
    I liked Mike.

        1. I fucking hated that game.

          Nintendo one especially. Fucking hated it.

  58. As if there is an “on-topic” by now………
    OK, it’s officially 8/9.
    Where’s those lying shit sacks JW and commie-kid to tell us how evil the US was for pooping a nuke on Nagasaki?
    I’m willing to admit I’ve made a horrible mistake in supporting those weapons so long as one of those assholes tells me of the alternative that I and everyone else has missed to date.

    1. bombs are so fucking easy to squeeze like mustard, sevo…. and so the things go…banga.

    2. Those bombings were not only warranted but morally defensible. Relative to all the rest of the shit that goes on in war.

      1. “Those bombings were not only warranted but morally defensible. Relative to all the rest of the shit that goes on in war.”
        Yep, and commie-kid and JW have been spending time whining that they are icky, while I keep asking for the alternative.
        I get misdirection; ‘well, civilians and school girls…’. Yes and WHAT WAS THE ALTERNATIVE? We don’t have unicorns!

        1. I’m not even willing to defend them as such, but next to what the hell else went on over Dresden or London or Tokyo, what’s the goddamn complaint? Oh, it’s a signature achievement of the Americans, is it? And the death toll was approximately what conventional bombing might have achieved? And it convinced and adversary ready to see it out through an invasion to give up peaceably? And looking at Japan now, they hardly look like vassals, yeah? What’s the fucking complaint?

          1. ” And the death toll was approximately what conventional bombing might have achieved?”

            Actually the fire-bombing campaign of Curtis Le May killed many many more japanese than the atomic bombs.

            its not the numbers killed that people think was ‘unethical’, its the fact that there was an option to do it in a way that didn’t *necessitate* civilian death, but they ultimately chose to do it anyway

            its also notable = 12,000 americans, and 100,000 japanese died in Okinawa, which probably didn’t need to happen at all if we could have dropped the bomb *earlier*

            I’m actually going to go re-watch the episode from “World At War” on this particular topic. Lawrence Olivier FTW. I think the nut of it is around here

            From my limited memory, the Russians were the main reason they wanted to do it Big and Visible, rather than the worry about the Japanese, who they knew would surrender.

            1. *GILMORE*|8.9.15 @ 1:06AM|#
              “its not the numbers killed that people think was ‘unethical’, its the fact that there was an option to do it in a way that didn’t *necessitate* civilian death, but they ultimately chose to do it anyway”

              OK, so now we have commie-kid, JW and gilmore claiming there was some preferable alternative, and not a single one of them has mentioned it.
              Gilmore, you;’re getting deeper and deeper into bullshit; let’s see something other than youtube.

        2. The alternative was to drop the bomb somewhere there was less chance of any large-scale civilian casualties, make the point to the Japanese that we could annihilate them at will, show the russians we’d finally made the thing work and let them know to chill the fuck out and stop trying to grab land before the war was over…. and let the japs surrender (as they were already more or less ready to do)

          instead the call was made to drop it on an otherwise untouched city so we could get very good data on how badly it fucked shit up and what the after-effects on people might be.

          that’s my rough understanding of it.

          1. Sure, if we had bombs to spare. As I understand it, it was Oppenheimer himself who pushed for a civilian target. Because we needed a show of force like nothing else. We needed to convince Japan that we had twenty such bombs to pour over their landmass like so many blossoming flowers, and Nagasaki and Hiroshima unwittingly drew the unlucky straws.

            1. As noted – and the link clarifies it = the japanese were already ready to surrender under a variety of conditions…. dropping the bomb wasn’t about speeding up the japanese surrender but rather to reinforce the point to the russians that we were willing to use it, and use that fact as a lever in negotiations. they were otherwise unimpressed by our ‘telling them about it’, which we did before it was dropped.

              “Show” tends to be have a bigger impact than “Tell”

              Anyway, that detail again tends to make people ask ‘then why did it have to be a largely-civilian target’? it didn’t really. But just as many people would have been killed (and many more) if the bomb never existed.

              1. *GILMORE*|8.9.15 @ 1:18AM|#
                “As noted – and the link clarifies it = the japanese were already ready to surrender under a variety of conditions…. dropping the bomb wasn’t about speeding up the japanese surrender but rather to reinforce the point to the russians that we were willing to use it, and use that fact as a lever in negotiations. they were otherwise unimpressed by our ‘telling them about it’, which we did before it was dropped.”

                A youtube cite is lame.

                1. “‘ youtube cite is lame””


                  maybe you should see what that is before you start passing judgement.

                  1. *GILMORE*|8.9.15 @ 1:27AM|#
                    “‘ youtube cite is lame””
                    maybe you should see what that is before you start passing judgement.”

                    My goodness!! I looked at your youtube bullshit.
                    Now, do you want to deal as an adult, or do we just presume you’re a fucking ignoramus?
                    Which is ist?

            2. Close, but both Hiroshima (headquarters of the 2nd Army) and Nagasaki (home of the XX armament plants; can’t remember; the outfit that made the torpedoes used at Pearl) were ‘civilian’ only in that the Japanese were not kind enough to position the military installations away from the cities.
              Look, if you’d like I’ll be here all night. I’m real tired of those who claim the allies were involved in nefarious aims in using the nukes.
              Here is the statement I will make, and if you’d like to argue with it, you’d better have cites:
              The Allies (primarily the US) had few options to end the war in the far east. The absolute BEST of them was the use of the nuclear weapons.
              That decision saved lives counting in the millions, mostly Japanese.
              Now, if you have an alternative claim, let’s see it, along with the cites

              1. i’m not interested in debating it at all.

                I know the history reasonably well. You should watch World at War (at the very least, that one episode). It provides direct testimony from many of the actual people involved in the decision making at the time. Nothing you say is contrary to facts (though some is just your opinion);

                the japanese were ready to surrender on some set of terms (the sticking point being whether the Emperor was going to be able to stay in power), and that the wild card was whether Russia would stop attacking east.


                Truman had knowledge of the japanese plan to accept surrender terms before the bomb was dropped. This isnt debateable. See comments by sec byrnes & minister Kaze @ 32m in the linked vid.

                1. *GILMORE*|8.9.15 @ 1:36AM|#
                  “i’m not interested in debating it at all.”
                  Strangely enough, Gilmore, every time you’re called on your bullshit, you ‘aren’t interested in debating it’.
                  OK, fuck off.

                  “Iknow the history reasonably well. You should watch World at War (at the very least, that one episode). ”
                  You don’t know shit.

                  1. the below article provides more detail on the internal japanese deliberations, and how their ultimate decision was more influenced by the russians than the atomic bombs. which is also the reason they didn’t finalize surrender earlier – as noted. they’d more or less agreed to the terms proposed, but had no idea if the russians would comply with any bi-lateral agreement. Calls from Togo to Molotov were made to try and get this very issue settled (which the film points out)


                    Its also noted = the summer of 1945 saw about 68 japanese cities leveled in equal measure as Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and hundreds of thousands killed.

                    Arguing that destruction of these 2 particular cities were so crucial in compelling the ultimate surrender is sort of a stretch

                    “When Truman famously threatened to visit a “rain of ruin” on Japanese cities if Japan did not surrender, few people in the United States realized that there was very little left to destroy. By August 7, when Truman’s threat was made, only 10 cities larger than 100,000 people remained that had not already been bombed.”

                    plenty of detail there re-affirming points already made.

                    1. Arguing that destruction of these 2 particular cities were so crucial in compelling the ultimate surrender is sort of a stretch

                      Not really. The Bomb was simply more compelling than conventional annihilation.

                      Even after Hiroshima, it was a sure thing that the Japs would surrender. There was very nearly a military coup to keep the war going. Thank goodness America nuked both of those cities.

          2. *GILMORE*|8.9.15 @ 12:51AM|#
            “The alternative was to drop the bomb somewhere there was less chance of any large-scale civilian casualties, make the point to the Japanese that we could annihilate them at will, show the russians we’d finally made the thing work and let them know to chill the fuck out and stop trying to grab land before the war was over…. and let the japs surrender (as they were already more or less ready to do)”
            G, read Downfall; you are not looking good here.
            No, the Japanese were nowhere close to anything like a “surrender”; they were attempting to pry the Soviets loose from the allies in the hopes of finding, perhaps, a cease-fire. There was not ONE high official pimping for surrender prior to the Hiroshima bomb, and then only a couple.
            The concept of dropping an ‘example’ was examined by all and sundry. And as an illustration of how valid it might have been, you’ll notice it took *TWO* bombs on cities to cause the surrender.

            1. “G, read Downfall; you are not looking good here.
              No, the Japanese were nowhere close to anything like a “surrender”;

              The US secretary of state and the Japanese Foreign minister at the time say differently

              and the US was entirely privy to all the internal negotiations going on in japan, having cracked their code a year earlier, so they knew their final offer would have been accepted.

              (that Togo and the Emperor Hirohito had agreed to surrender, but that generals were still unclear on whether russia would play along with any agreement with Americans)

              1. *GILMORE*|8.9.15 @ 1:26AM|#
                “The US secretary of state and the Japanese Foreign minister at the time say differently”
                No, they don’t; the announcer claims they do.

                “and the US was entirely privy to all the internal negotiations going on in japan, having cracked their code a year earlier, so they knew their final offer would have been accepted.”

                “(that Togo and the Emperor Hirohito had agreed to surrender, but that generals were still unclear on whether russia would play along with any agreement with Americans)”
                You’re really making an ass of yourself here, and once you read “Downfall” you’re realize what an ass you are.
                Until then, you’re an ignoramus citing youtube buillshit and ought to be embarrassed.

                1. “, you’re an ignoramus citing youtube buillshit

                  The World at War is a ~26 hour documentary produced in 1973 and was the most expansive bit of documentary work ever produced at its time.

                  “The series featured interviews with major members of the Allied and Axis campaigns, including eyewitness accounts by civilians, enlisted men, officers and politicians, amongst them Albert Speer, Karl D?nitz, Walter Warlimont, James Stewart, Bill Mauldin, W. Averell Harriman, Curtis LeMay, Lord Mountbatten of Burma, Alger Hiss, Toshikazu Kase, Mitsuo Fuchida, Minoru Genda, J. B. Priestley, Brian Horrocks, John J. McCloy, Lawrence Durrell, Sir Arthur Harris, Charles Sweeney, Paul Tibbets, Lord Avon, Traudl Junge, Mark Clark, Adolf Galland, Hasso von Manteuffel and historian Stephen Ambrose.

                  Episode 24 – The Bomb – Interviewees include Toshikazu Kase, Yoshio Kodama, Marquis Koichi Kido, Major General Charles Sweeney, Brigadier General Paul Tibbets, Alger Hiss, W. Averell Harriman, Lord Avon, McGeorge Bundy, John J. McCloy, General Curtis LeMay and Hisatsune Sakomizu. *and includes commentary by Sec State James Byrnes who was Truman’s closest adviser on Foreign Policy matters.

                  I fail to see how putting it on Youtube undermines it in any way

                  I’m also not sure it compares disfavorably with any one-person’s book on the issue, particular one written after most people with direct experience in the issue were dead.

                  1. Does World at War discuss the nearly-successful military coup by anti-surrender elements in the Japanese regime?

            2. “G”? Are you Bailey’s off-hours handle?

  59. Jimmy came by one day in the alley and he had dropped late 80’s crack and jimmy ran into a electrical line for not a singles explainable fuck reason he got the fucking electrical cable jammed through his hand if you fuckers remember the old days of power line cable wraps… Jimmy rammed the half inch cable literallyrightinto his hand and out the other side.
    we had to lift Jimmy as like 4 guys off the fucking power cable…
    and Jimmy I met at a Metalllica poser concert 20 years later.
    fist bump. that was all.
    Dude almost lost his shitty hand like a fucking christ to a power cable and…
    whatever Jimmmy.

    1. are you alluding to ride the lightning?

      1. the wife lost her special brother to lightnting when he was 12 and the second was lost and never recovered in the Buffalo river after a big stormish….

        the second brother’s heart was destroyed when the little boy was killed…
        my wife was 10 and she saw the lightning burn a hole in the top of her brother’s head and the lightning blew his little ankle out.

        1. the buffalo river brother’s heart was destroyed when he stood next to the his little brother and the hardcore lightning struck killing my wife’s favorite little brother in 76. the second brother’s heart was hit so bad that he suffered for years after and after swimming in the Tennessee Buffalo river on the West side a storm blew in and he cried out and was never see again…

        2. what the fuck, dude, I was talking about the metallica album.


          1. sorry babe.. i’m so fucked up baby.. man I’m on dope and booze you lovely lady lover.

            Peace out, super Caress wood jesus starship?

  60. Aunt Cary wasn’t really my aunt but her living was made off dying vets in late 80’s Toledo. She tried so very hard until she died, bros.
    But as a young boy in the 80’s I suffered working for her… and Billy did also BUT we had good times as well…

    Aunt Cary would buy Billy and me hamburgers at jacks Western Deli in 1985 and because Billy and I were abused by super hatred religious culture we finally got to enjoy life as 12 year-olds with crazy Aunt Cary…. We connived Aunt Cary to give us Huey Lewis at those fucking table jukes….

  61. Aunt Cary tried so hard to care for her skidrow bums but I struggled with the motherfucking roaches…… Aunt Cary is dead but in 85 Aunt Cary was alive and happy to show Billy and me her photo albums which had tons of roaches crawling the fucking around the spines…. I screamed at 14 and ran into the woods…. I sucked the shit up and came back but JESUS FUCKING CHRISt… Aunt Cary would take me and Billy to a burger joint on Western Ave in Toledo and we’d throw ten cents on a shitty tabletop jukebox in for Huey Lewis and a couple of burgers and The news would make everything great.

    1. Huey Lewis and the News does make everything great.

      But really, you were trying to bait this into being posted.

      1. Caress of the Fucking Wood,
        a celestial being explained only
        by a shatter of deep down tripp;e;s
        and an electric mask of deadjedo
        wrarall[p o/ tje ajoe

  62. man its weird but if you look across the lands and states and neighborhoods
    and do you realize a million stories are being lost and loved and lived
    and yet my face ordinarliy watches mostly shitty tv.

    I am worried that modern culture is killing my brain constructs
    I seek a million words from Russell and a hundred greats and I love this great world of brilliant scribes and its loving intelligent comments but

    are we being brain destroyed? by modern culture and its CNN and FOX?

    1. You can only make sure you listen to everyone….even here I learn see people’s stories preserved…the net can be av help, not just the Destroyer.

  63. Donald Trump is a whiny bitch. Hey, you want to know the difference between winners and losers, losers bitch about the officials.

    For all the tough talk about Donald Trump being some sort of Alpha male he sucks at it. When a half way decent competent female calling him on his bullshit, his first reaction was to claim that the only reason any reporter would try to question him was because she was on the rag.

    For all the Cuckservative BS about Trump, he is not an Alpha, he’s just a bully. And like most bullies, when you stand up to them they fall apart.

  64. *GILMORE*|8.9.15 @ 12:51AM|#
    “The alternative was to drop the bomb somewhere there was less chance of any large-scale civilian casualties, make the point to the Japanese that we could annihilate them at will, show the russians we’d finally made the thing work and let them know to chill the fuck out and stop trying to grab land before the war was over…. and let the japs surrender (as they were already more or less ready to do)”

    So the best we have from commie-kid, JW and Gilmore so far is the hope that dropping a nuke someplace would have caused the Japanese to surrender in spite of the fact that it took *TWO* bombs on cities to, in FACT accomplish the same result.
    disregarding the bullshit claim they were ‘ready to surrender.
    Fucking lame.

    1. I never said dropping it somewhere else would have convinced them to surrender.

      i said it was an alternative option that was considered and scrapped.

      I don’t believe the evidence shows that dropping on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were instrumental to surrender either. They would have surrendered without the atomic bombs – the bombs seemed to have more to do with influencing the Russians, as repeatedly noted (and how the russians were central to their surrender is clarified at great length here)

      I don’t have any moral argument for/against the bombs at all, and frankly don’t think it matters. As also noted = hundreds of thousands of japanese were killed by firebombing in 1945, sans atomic help. I also said that – had the bombs been ready sooner – could probably have saved many lives.

      1. They would have surrendered without the atomic bombs

        No they would not have and they nearly didn’t even with the bombs.

  65. “Thank you, Seattle, for being one of the most Progressive cities in the United States of America!” ?Bernie Sanders


    1. Ouroboros eats itself.…..ers-rally/

  66. the GOP has at times talked a big game about reaching libertarian voters

    Really? Can you give some examples of “the GOP” doing that?

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