Donald Trump Uses Old Al Franken POW Joke About John McCain

Franken 15 years ago: "I don't buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured."

NBC

Everyone—and by "everyone" I mean "a bunch of guys on my Twitter feed"—is up in arms about something Donald Trump said today about John McCain:

He's not a war hero….He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured.

And then he reiterated the point:

I don't buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured. I thought the idea was to capture them. As far as I'm concerned he sat out the war.

Oh, wait. Sorry. That second quote came from Al Franken 15 years ago. So that's where Trump gets his material.

Bill Kristol says if Trump doesn't apologize for his McCain crack, this will be the "beginning of the end" for his presidential campaign. Given Kristol's spotty record as a prognosticator, that might be a good reason to expect Trump to stick around a long time. But if he is on his way out, maybe he'll head to the Senate instead.

Comments

[F. Whiny Comments, Jr.]

Finally! Donald Trump news!

[Chippy Chippie ?ang Bang]

Trump is the Night Goblin Fanatic of the phalanx of GOP candidates.

[Gojira]

WTF? This is the second WFB reference I've heard in two days. And when Age of Sigmar has ruined my favorite game forever. You're all just rubbing salt in my wounds!

[Chippy Chippie ?ang Bang]

You can play any edition you want, you know.

[l0b0t]

Yeah... go cry about it to my Squats, Zoats, and Beastmen Imperial Guard.

[Chippy Chippie ?ang Bang]

Squats riding in Whirlwinds and armed with a few vortex bombs.

[Chippy Chippie ?ang Bang]

Was teh cool, is what I meant to include with the above post.

[l0b0t]

Back in the Rogue Trader days, I had an Imperial Assassin in Terminator armor w/ Lightning Claws. When equipped with combat drugs, he had something like a 24 inch charge range and 36 attacks. He could take out armored vehicles all by himself.

[Chippy Chippie ?ang Bang]

Nice. I got out before the game got big, and only played with that first book and whatever new rules came out in Warhammer but I don't think I missed anything.

[l0b0t]

You missed nothing. I haven't actually played a game since 1994 but I still collect and paint minis of all types. The painting and customizing was always the primary draw for me.

[Agammamon]

Look, just go play Mordheim.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/276810

Or Total War: Warhammer

http://steamcommunity.com/app/364360

[Crusty Juggler]

Everyone?and by "everyone"

Everyone?

[AlmightyJB]

Just watched that a few weeks ago. Oldman was great in that. Then watched Alex Cross and almost didn't recognize Jean Reno.

[Crusty Juggler]

Luc Besson's stinky French thriller sometimes works out well.

One of the many reasons Community is a great show.

[AlmightyJB]

I haven't seen that. I'll have to check it out.

[C. Anacreon]

I always confuse Jean Reno with Joe Flaherty of SCTV. Probably separated at birth.

[Jerry on the sea]

Can we now officially declare that the Trump is being sponsored by the Democrats?

[commodious spittoon]

You'd think being a Hillary shill and an unrepentant crony capitalist would have been "the beginning of the end" for Trump's candidacy, but morons gonna moron.

[GILMORE, Haiku Pornographer]

" That second quote came from Al Franken 15 years ago"

I hate to see those articles from when Salon wasn't completely retarded yet. It makes me feel old.

[Napoleon Bonoparte]

Bill Kristol says if Trump doesn't apologize for his McCain crack, this will be the "beginning of the end" for his presidential campaign.

Given that Trump's fan base is largely composed of people who refer to McCain as "Lettuce McAmnesty", I'm guessing this will help him more than hurt him.

Kristol is one of the guys who still thinks invading Iraq was a good idea. i'd take his opinion with a big grain of salt.

[B. Woodrow Chippenhaus]

I'd take Kristol's opinion with great reluctance, if not outright disgust.

[Mark6]

I'm onboard with the disgust part

[Old Man With Candy]

Penn has been pwning him mercilessly.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

At least, back when more people were veterans, we could be more discriminating in our veteran-worship.

General Washington smacked the British upside the head and created a nation.

General Jackson had a history of winning his battles. So did Zachary Taylor. Even Franklin Pierce was a general on the winning side, though criticized as the winner of many a well-fought bottle.

With the Civil War, the public made Grant President because he was in so many ways the key to victory. They didn't elect Edwin H. Stoughton, the Union general who got captured in his own tent by Mosby.

Likewise with Hayes and Garfield. They weren't as big as Grant but at least they didn't get captured by the enemy.

Then it started going downhill when the people elected a guy whose submarine was wrecked by the Japs. But at least JFK managed to heroically survive the accident.

Then it came down to McCain, the modern counterpart to Stoughton who got shot down and interned as a POW. And his Democratic counterpart was Kerry, a guy who spent some time in Vietnam then went around accusing his comrades of all sorts of war crimes.

Kow-towing to any random veteran is simply lame.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Ooh, McCain is so dreamy, he's a veteran! I wish *I* were a veteran, but I was too busy attending Journalism School on a draft deferment, but I can make up for that by supporting an omg veteran and getting testosterone by proxy!"

[Agammamon]

Look, McCain isn't a 'war hero' because he was *captured*.

He's a hero because of the narrative (exactly how true and how exaggerated, I don't know) developed about his actions holding together and leading the other prisoners through a very difficult time - being a POW in Vietnam was more Abu Ghraib than Guantanamo bay.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

OK, that's more impressive.

I'm more annoyed by the "omg veteran!" attitude which makes John Kerry an omg veteran when so many of his comrades fought the enemy *without* accusing fellow soldiers of war crimes.

As for the special credibility reserved for veterans, that should be confined to to those who actually *contribute to the enemy's defeat,* which is admittedly problematic w/r/t Vietnam.

[RAHeinlein]

No rational vet would consider John Kerry and "omg veteran" and McCain could have been released, but refused.

[Heedless]

He also repeatedly refused to accept early release, insisting that he would not go home until everyone in the camp could go home.

[gaoxiaen]

On a combat sortie, McCain was flying low, sheared off part of a wing on a telephone pole and managed to make it back safely. He was on the USS Forrestal (and in the flight deck film) when it had its "Trial by Fire". Days later he transferred to another carrier and was shot down, bailing out, breaking both of his arms, and was captured. I don't like the guy, but I respect him. He might be an asshole, but he's no pussy.

[gaoxiaen]

*breaking both of his arms and one leg

[DblEagle]

The NV first gave McCain special "interrogation" since his father was a full Admiral and the PACOM commander when he was shot down. As pointed out above, McCain turned down, on multiple occasions, early release and by all accounts from his peers he behaved honorably. For all of my disagreements with him about policy and a vision for America I have to give him full credit for his behavior in captivity.

[Chippy Chippie ?ang Bang]

interned as a POW.

And I bet he wasn't even paid for it! Damn capitalist exploiters!

[Agammamon]

Still better than being interred as a POW.

[Thymirus]

Roosevelt single-handedly won World War II from his wheelchair. HE'S SO DREAMY.

[gaoxiaen]

I don't think that he chose to have polio.

[Pathogen]

Well.. somebody had to have it, sooo.. he took one for the team. Show some goddamned respect!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

One advantage of having lots of wars is you get a broader selection of veterans to vote for, if that's your thing.

You don't just have to attach yourself to the first guy who says "while my Daddy was commanding naval forces in the region I got shot down and spent time in commie prison!"

There's a story about a Confederate veteran who ran for office on the merits of being a former Army officer. He was beaten by one of his own privates who recalled, "I was standing out on picket duty in the rain while my opponent was sleeping in his tent. Those of you who were on picket duty should vote for me, while those who slept soundly in their tents should vote for my opponent." The private soldier won.

[AFSlade]

Hey, asshole, I don't know you, but I've survived a helicopter crash and some other close calls. I don't know what the fuck YOU did during the wars, but McCain is, by most military standards, a fucking war hero. So was Stockdale, you asshat. Try reading Everett Alvarez's "Chained Eagles" before you open you're fucking pie hole.

I disagree with McCain about a ton of things - a TON. But that dude is legit and your criticism in this regard is both vacuous and fucking stupid.

And you give us Catholics a bad name, too, you goddamn papist shit.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Oh, boy, have you picked the wrong guy to bully.

Tell me, how many veterans got elected President based on their experience as a POW?

Wait for it...'

NONE AT ALL!

So take your fucking attitude and shove it sideways up your asshole, which probably isn't as difficult as it sounds given the fact that you've been letting McCain shove his diseased peter up your ass for years.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"And you give us Catholics a bad name, too, you goddamn papist shit."

I don't give a shit about your helicopter crash, if you're going to use the Lord's name in vain and use the word "papist," you should fall on your knees and thank God that He gave you some time to repent your blasphemy and you insults against what you claim is your own Church.

Put your lips on my dick, and suck my asshole, too.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

What's the matter, AFSlade, are you slinking away from this discussion like a coward because you aren't used to anyone challenging your credentials?

Oh, yeah, I'm sure your credentials are just as sound as your credentials as a Catholic...because *lots* of Catholics are in the habit of using *papist* as an insult.

And lots of Catholics use the Lord's name in vain...it's like an initiation rite, isn't it, you slimy, retarded, cowardly, punk-ass, villain?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

You cuckolded fool, your wife has entertained the entire starting lineup of the Cleveland Browns, and you accepted your excuse that her car broke down near their dugout.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

You still there, AFSlade? I bet you're hiding under your Mommy's skirts and begging her to make the mean man go away.

Meanwhile, your wife is giving oral pleasure to meth dealers in exchange for drugs.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Wow, you don't last very long, do you?

If you were a man, you would have responded to my remarks by now.

But you're a castrated, cuckolded, coward, and you've turned your tail and run away.

Fuck you and the horse you pleasured.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Wow, I didn't know they made a song in your honor, AFSlade, I'm sorry I criticized you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wNx1CBym7s

[Jay Dubya]

classy, GKC. you really showed those veterans, huh?

[Brochettaward]

Everyone who reads this, except perhaps Sheldon if he bothered, is going to see GKC for what a piece of shit he is.

If you were a man, you would have responded to my remarks by now.

Yea, because manhood is shown in internet comment sections where some Catholic buffoon is shouting out random insults and calling you a cuckold...Not, you know, in combat or any place where people would want to kill you. Or by standing up for something at risk to yourself. No, YOU are the real man, GKC, for running around the internet telling us how wrong government sanctioned gay marriage is. You're truly doing God's work.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I am sorry I lowered myself to Slade's level. Even he deserved better than that.

And I certainly should have respected myself more than to behave the same way he did.

[Warty]

Hey, Eddie. God's not real and your Christ never existed. You're wasting your life on lies that children see through. How's that feel? Oh yeah. Papist.

[Mindyourbusiness]

GKC, Kennedy's PT boat got run down by an enemy destroyer.

\warpedant

[Notorious G.K.C.]

OK, OK, PT boat.

Next you'll tell me the Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor.

[Chippy Chippie ?ang Bang]

You know what the best thing about Operation Aphrodite was? It killed a Kennedy.

[Bam!]

Do we know who else kill a Kennedy?

[Wasteland Wanderer]

You and me?

[Almanian - Trump's Woodchipper]

The cancer?

[Pathogen]

Poor nielsen ratings for the coveted 18-45yo demographic, on Fox business?

[Virginian]

But at least JFK managed to heroically survive the accident.

An accident he caused. His fast, agile PT boat got run down by a bigger, slower ship. If his last name had been Smith instead of Kennedy, he'd have been court martialed for incompetence. The men of PT-109 who died were killed by the incompetence of their captain more so then by the skill of the Japanese Navy.

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

Nice to skip over Bush II, draft dodger and deserter, and Clinton (the first?), another draft dodger, although he was at least honest about it.

[Arthur45]

It was a PT boat, not a submarine.

[Almanian - Trump's Woodchipper]

It was a PT boat that BECAME a submarine.

[Mark6]

McCain is a hero much in the vain of Jessica Lynch. Both achieved their "hero" status by letting the enemy get the better of them and had the stuff needed to survive captivity.

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

Trump is like the blowhard asshole friend nearly everyone has but wishes they didn't. Just when you're about to blow them off and never return their call again they do something useful. Like when the maitre d' at a nice restaurant says they "lost" your reservation and can't seat you for two hours and your Trump friend gets all huffy and makes a scene and they seat you immediately just to shut him the fuck-up.

Basically, Trump is Eric Cartman.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

OK, let's be fair to Trump...he didn't eat anyone's parents, he isn't an anti-Semite (that I know of) and he keeps his weight under control.

[Crusty Juggler]

Eric Cartman fed Scott Tenorman's parents to Scott Tenorman during a chilli contest. Get your facts straight, fella.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Pardon me. He was more of a Titus Andronicus sort of guy.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

(a reference which I'm sure the creaters of SouthPark would *totally* not recognize, because they're completely original)

[Agammamon]

Titus fed Tamara's *children* her, not her to her children.

You're kinda batting .100 today.

[Crusty Juggler]

He was more of a Titus Andronicus sort of guy.

I am surprised that as a dirty Catholic you would have that kind of taste in music.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Lend me thy hand, and I will give thee mine."

http://shakespeare.mit.edu/titus/full.html

[Hamster of Doom]

He appears to have taste when it comes to women.

[Napoleon Bonoparte]

...and people are noticing...

[Hamster of Doom]

The comments are fun.

[lap83]

Wow...that website is ridiculous.

According to the their "Dating market test for men" having more than two online friends is as detrimental to your perceived value to women as having been arrested for child pornography.

[lap83]

Another good one, if you've been in a fist fight with a girl you wanted dead it's as bad as responding "sure" to a girl who wants to buy you a drink.

[Mark6]

not being a cannibal is certainly a qualifier for the POTUS job!

[F. Whiny Comments, Jr.]

Trump is like the blowhard asshole friend nearly everyone has but wishes they didn't.

Weird, just thinking about me and my circle of friends I can't think of anyone who - WAITAMINIT.

[Thymirus]

McCain is a demented authoritarian power-gamer. He's a vile disgrace to his office, and allowing him any measure of influence is hazardous. Donald Trump may be cartoonishly stupid, but his bluster provides amusement. That creature on his head is surely a tribble.

[Hamster of Doom]

And, much like MasterBlaster, the tribble is in charge.

[Bob Meyer]

That explains Trump's reaction to McCain. McCain must be a Klingon.

[Hamster of Doom]

Everyone?and by "everyone" I mean "a bunch of guys on my Twitter feed"?is up in arms about something Donald Trump said today about John McCain...

YOU DON'T SAY.

[Napoleon Bonoparte]

I suspect one of the reasons Trump is popular is because he's keeping everyone on Jesse Walker's Twitter feed up in arms.

/Pauline Kael moment

[F. Whiny Comments, Jr.]

+1 living in a special world.

[Jesse Walker]

everyone on Jesse Walker's Twitter feed

Please. A bunch of guys on my Twitter feed.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

#nolibertarianwomen

[AlmightyJB]

That was a great opening line you must admit:)

[Hamster of Doom]

It was fabulous. Many attempt to channel Perez Hilton, few succeed.

[AlmightyJB]

I'm no John McCain fan but that's pretty fucked up. Even for Trump.

[John]

It is like everything Trump says; in wildly poor taste. Trump seems to have a gift for taking a truthful point, in this case having the combination of bad luck and balls to win a medal of honor doesn't make you right about anything, and express it in a way so offensive that he discredits the entire argument even though it is largely correct.

That is really all he is doing with immigration. He is taking the entirely truthful point that it is a bad idea to let violent criminals into the country and set up cities that refuse to turn them over to be deported and completely discrediting it by phrasing it so that it implies all Mexicans are criminals.

It is almost as if he really is a professional troll sent over by the Democrats to discredit every GOP argument. Chances are that he is really that stupid, but you never know.

[Agammamon]

I think its more being a billionaire scion of a wealthy family who's always been surrounded by people telling him how great and intelligent he is and how the shit that dribbles out of his mouth is piercing insight into the human condition - and *believing* it.

[AlmightyJB]

I've said it before. Trump loves nothing more than hearing his own voice. That will be what does him in.

[John]

The people who think he is great for going after the Mexicans are very likely to be the kind of people who hold military service in very high esteem and are going to be offended by this. Just let him keep talking and he will manage to offend pretty much the entire country.

[Napoleon Bonoparte]

The commenters at Fox News don't seem very offended.

[Bob Meyer]

Compared to Breitbart, the Fox New commenters appear objective. Jesus Christ gets less praise at a revival meeting than Trump gets on Breitbart.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-g.....umps-wall/

[Arthur45]

So far Trump has been dead on but he doesn't provide the details to back up what he says

[Libertarian]

"Bill Kristol says if Trump doesn't apologize for his McCain crack, this will be the "beginning of the end" for his presidential campaign."

Thanks, Billy, for letting us all know how cynical American politics has become. An insincere apology, to explain away a gaffe, is all it takes now to get back into the running. "All is forgiven!" So Kristol is now playing the Jesse Jackson role from South Park?

[Acosmist]

Denying the antecedent there, bud?

[juris imprudent]

I would pay serious money to watch a celebrity death match between Kristol and Trump.

[Mr. Paulbotto]

Can we get the long-awaited ENB/ESB mud match on the undercard? I'm asking for Crusty Juggler a friend.

[Crusty Juggler]

I appreciate the effort but that is not something I have any interest in. They are probably crazy enough, but their combined weight would not even come close to meeting the high standard I have set for myself.

[Mr. Paulbotto]

Oh, so you're into the John specials, huh? 😉

[AlgerHiss]

Trump hit a nerve with this one.

Deep down, people are sick and tired of McCain riding this Hanoi Hilton horse all these years, but they've always been afraid to say so. And intellectually, does being captured and spending time in Hell automatically make you a hero? Yeah, we all know of the torture and such, but so freak'n what? For all we know, McCain was a hack pilot that got captured because he was bad at his job. (By the by, I have a pilot's license.)

And being in the Hanoi Hilton does not give you a free pass the rest of your life.

Trump is no doubt an ass and probably more of a Democrat, but McCain is perhaps more of an ass.

[John]

Trump took a truthful point and discredited it by being a dick. I am tired of McCain's act too. It doesn't matter than McCain was a hack pilot. That doesn't take away the ridiculous amount of courage he showed while in captivity. What does matter, however, is that courage doesn't make McCain right about anything. Thank you for your service John. You are a great American. Now do the world a favor and shut the fuck up for a while and stop acting like your service means you have some special insight on government no one else has.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

And there you go. The last three sentences should sum up McCain's career, and should have been enough to deny him the nomination 7 years ago.

Grover Cleveland *hired a substitute* to fight for him in the Civil War, yet he had a better Presidential record (at least in his first term) than Mr. War-Hero Grant, who at least contributed in a major way to the defeat of the enemy, which you can't say of McCain.

[Mr. Anderson]

Well said

[Arthur45]

What courage? How is that worthy of a medal? The guy lost a multimillion dollar aircraft- he was a klutz.

[Hyperbolical (wadair)]

He didn't lose it. McCain was shot down over enemy territory.

[Mark6]

Trump's point exactly!

[bolus]

Now do the world a favor and shut the fuck up for a while and stop acting like your service means you have some special insight on government no one else has.

When has McCain ever said anything like that?

You sound like someone who's just irritated that people look up to someone you disagree with.

[Pompey]

Man using H&R on a Kindle Fire is great. No Taboola ads.

[Warren]

Goddamnit Jesse. Why you got to quote Kristol? The man should be sleeping under cardboard and pushing all his worldly possessions in a shopping cart. Even mentioning him to say what a fucking idiot he is just perpetuates the crime of treating him like an actual human being. And now you've got me doing it too. Son of bitch!

[Troy muy grande boner]

I think Trump is right on. No one ever won a war by being captured. They win wars by capturing the other guy.

Fuck McCain. YOu'd think that being in a POW camp would teach him a lesson about putting people in harms way for no good reason. But he is one of our biggest war mongers. Fuck him.

Personally, I want to see Biden V Trump for 2016. If we are gonna live in a bananna republic, at least it should be entertaining.

[gaoxiaen]

It's pretty difficult to capture enemies using a ground attack aircraft.

[Hyperbolical (wadair)]

Exactly. Also, being a navy pilot during the Vietnam war was a very dangerous job.

[buybuydandavis]

So everyone will be talking about Trump for the next 2 weeks. How wonderful for us all.

Here is the headline for the next 6 months:
"Trump says X and the Media Feeds the Troll"

[Bob Meyer]

You've got that right. They're fattening up the Troll for the barbecue if he gets the nomination. Double murder - Trump kills the Republican party and the media kills Trump.

[Hyperion's Statist Chipper]

Trump shouldn't apologize for anything he says about that statist old geezer prick. Fuck McCain, time to put his idiot ass out to pasture, way past time.

[Intelligent Mr Toad]

I have always laughed at people who call McCain a "war hero". What did he ever do that was heroic? What battles did he win, what lives did he save? NONE. He exploited his family connections, and crashed a plane (actually several planes), and was tortured. Nothing heroic in that.

[Hyperion's Statist Chipper]

And then he became a senator and backed every single worst piece of legislation ever dreamed up by shitheel congress critters.

Yeah, nothing hero like about this asshole.

[bolus]

He was offered early release from the POW camp (due to his dad being named admiral). He refused it, because he knew the North Vietnamese would use it for propaganda purposes, and because it would demoralize his fellow POWs when they saw him getting special treatment. He did this despite the promise that a refusal would lead to even more severe torture from his captors, a promise they kept in spades in the subsequent years.

"war hero" might be going a bit far but he did demonstrate an amazing amount of tenacity and integrity.

[Intelligent Mr Toad]

Yes, he's very stubborn and good at refusing to cooperate with anyone, including his colleagues.

[Zaytsev]

He was offered early release from the POW camp (due to his dad being named admiral). He refused it, because he knew the North Vietnamese would use it for propaganda purposes, and because it would demoralize his fellow POWs when they saw him getting special treatment.

I've heard this story for decades and it's always seemed like some kind of bullshit to me.

Why would the commies in the north get good pr by releasing the son of the military commander that they were in a death struggle with? Makes no sense. If the Germans had captured Ike's kid in WWII would they have released him for good pr? - the premise is laughable. With a high ranking father he was a primo hostage / human shield.

And from the other side, McCain was completely under the control of his captors. If they wanted to release him as a pr move, he would have been powerless to stop them. They could have turned him over to the soviet ambassador and sent out of the country that way, or via any number of other 3rd world countries. Hell, they could have thrown his ass in a rubber dingy and dropped it off the coast to be picked up by the Navy.

[bolus]

That's a pretty obvious "joke". I'd be surprised if more people haven't used it independently.

[Arthur45]

I wasn't aware that the military gives out medals to guys who get shot down and lose a multimillion dollar weapon and then get captured. I think they are referred to as klutzes and aren't allowed to fly any more planes.

[gaoxiaen]

Yeah, just think of all the "doofuses" that got killed or wounded when they could have heroically shuffled papers in an air-conditioned office. The enemy isn't shooting Nerf balls.

[bolus]

They get medals because everyone flying a plane in a combat zone is taking that risks (klutzes or otherwise). If you don't honor people who die or are wounded in battle, you won't have many people willing to take the risk.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Perhaps you don't do enough reading?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Sijan

[l0b0t]

Holy Mackerel! Evading capture for 46 days while suffering a fractured skull, mangled right hand, and compound fracture of the left leg; only able to move by sliding around on his butt and back? Getting captured and incapacitating his guard to escape into the jungle? He was made of far sterner stuff than I.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Here's another one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Day

[Red Rocks Rockin]

And another one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale

[Agammamon]

Christ, what a fuckhead.

1. Getting a plane shot down (or even clipping a telephone pole in a low-altitude pass) does not get you grounded during a war. The US military may have a 'zero-defect' attitude during *peacetime* but we understand that equipment is going to be lost during war.

2. They give medals to guys who *lead* troops during difficult and trying times and set an inspirational example for what a military leader should be - which McCain did during his captivity.

3. There's a fuckton of shit to hit McCain on - starting with his treatment of his 1st wife upon return to the US, but his *military record* is pretty close to being above reproach.

[Agammamon]

Unless you want ot bitch about George HW Bush losing one of his planes during WW2

During their attack, the Avengers encountered intense anti-aircraft fire; Bush's aircraft was hit by flak and his engine caught on fire. Despite his plane being on fire, Bush completed his attack and released bombs over his target, scoring several damaging hits.[1] With his engine ablaze, Bush flew several miles from the island, where he and one other crew member on the TBM Avenger bailed out of the aircraft . . .

I mean, what a fucking klutz to get hit by enemy fire.

And think of all those klutzy winners of posthumous Congressional Medals of Honor. I mean, if they hadn't been such fuckups they would never have gotten*shot*, right.

None of that's to say that McCain's service gives any special insight into government (except for the torture issue, where he is rather uniquely qualified to speak as to its efffectiveness - having been on the *receiving* end) - but what, exactly, does Trump bring to the table?

[Pathogen]

"but what, exactly, does Trump bring to the table?"

Premium bluster, and a soothing confirmation bias for those who like.. and dislike him...

[bolus]

From the same wiki article on GHWB's service:

Several of those shot down during the attack were executed and eaten by their captors.

Dayum! Though they were probably pretty hungry at that point in the war.

[Napoleon Bonoparte]

2. They give medals to guys who *lead* troops during difficult and trying times and set an inspirational example for what a military leader should be - which McCain did during his captivity.

There's different versions of that story.

[AFSlade]

Thank God someone with some fucking sense spoke up on this. Jesus Christ, I've never seen a bunch of libertarians act like a bigger bunch of cunts over some guy who was a legitimate war hero - but also a statist dope.

Okay, McCain isn't exactly a member of the Federalist club, nor will you find his picture under an entry about limited government. Concur.

But anyone who finds themselves agreeing with "the Donald" about, say, fucking anything should be double-checking their answer and scratch work before they start screaming out the answer in class.

And I get it that libertarians are uncomfortable about Boys Who Use Violence on Behalf of the State: I have the same degree of concern about the men in blue, for example, as well as use of our military in violation of posse comitatus. I do not, however, understand the venom from the commentariat. It smells distinctly like "hero hatred" more than it does anything else. One might hypothesize there's some kind of inferiority thing going on there..... naaaah, of course not.

[DblEagle]

And everybody who gets captured does get a "Prisoner of War Medal" which was signed into law in 1985 and made retroactive to WWI. We called it the "I got caught medal" and universally agreed that it was only medal we did not want under any circumstances.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Why should anyone who has smelled your wife's cunt feel any form of envy toward you?

[Brochettaward]

GKC is truly doing the work of God here.

[JonBarleyCorn]

"But anyone who finds themselves agreeing with "the Donald" about, say, fucking anything..."

O great! We can fucking swear here? FUCKING PISHAH! Wow. You used the F word. So brilliant...

How about this...

"THE MURDER OF FUCKING KATE STEILE IS A FUCKING NATIONAL DISGRACE, AND HER BLOOD IS ON OBAMA'S HANDS. INSTEAD OF SUING STATES LIKE AZ, IF BO PUT AN OUNCE OF EFFORT INTO CULLING UP REPEAT FELONS WHO INVADE OUR NATION OVER AND OVER SHE MIGHT FUCKING WELL BE ALIVE FUCKING TODAY."

Agree, good and fine sir, or disagree?

[JeremyR]

So I guess that means Trump is only qualified for the senate?

[Jdlund]

I'm confused. You say it's an Al Franken quote and you link to an oped that does indeed have the line but unless I am missing something that oped was not written by Al Franken. It was attributed to someone else and never portends to be written by Franken. So WTF?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Last paragraph of the Al Franken section:

"I doubt I could cross the line and vote Republican. I have tremendous respect for McCain but I don't buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured. I thought the idea was to capture them. As far as I'm concerned he sat out the war."

[Set Us Up The Chipper]

Trump is a Team Blue plant...or at least passes the Turing test for one.

[tardisisbiggerontheinside]

Not sure if "A Democrat said it once, 15 yrs ago"
is a valid excuse. If AL Franken jumped off a bridge, would Donald Trump do it too?
See? Childish.

[JonBarleyCorn]

LOL!!!! ROOFLLLLL!!!!

REALLY????

We have listened to a President for 7 long years say "It is Bush's fault" -- and all of a sudden -- referring to the mistakes of others is no longer acceptable?

Typical Lib. Do as I say, not as I do. Scratch a Lib, find a Fascist, every time.

[Arthur45]

This is a lie - the Trump remark was quite different than the Franken quote.

[JonBarleyCorn]

From what I understand, the entire McCain "hero" narrative MAY be a bunch of crap -- except for the time he did in the Hanoi Hilton. That was noble.

He was a poor and rebellious student, graduating 5th from the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy, and had constant discipline problems.

That said, he lost FIVE planes while in the service -- two of which he admits were because he was "horsing around."

When he was shot down, there is a question if he exceeded his orders, and flew into Zones that were restricted.

As well, from what I understand, McCain and his pals were big fans of the "wet start" -- pouring gas on the plane engines so it starts with a ball of fire. (If you've ever poured a little gas in the carb of your hot rod to "fire her up" then you know what i am talking about.)

Well, they went too far in their undisciplined fun, and 146 sailors died --- allegedly.

I am not saying ALL these things are true. I am saying SOME of them are true. And if they are, I believe the entire War record of McCain should be up for review.

The War Hero who calls people concerned about illegal immigration "crazies" may just have been better suited for a US prison cell than the US Senate.