Trans

It's Always About the Bathrooms, Isn't It?

Mike Huckabee shares his shower fantasies.

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Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee weighs in on trans lib:

At last, a chance to use this photo.

"For those who do not think that we are under threat, simply recognize that the fact that we are now in city after city watching ordinances say that your 7-year-old daughter, if she goes into the restroom cannot be offended and you can't be offended if she's greeted there by a 42-year-old man who feels more like a woman than he does a man."

Huckabee continued saying saying he wished someone told him in high school he "could have felt like a woman" and shower with the girls.

"Now I wish that someone told me that when I was in high school that I could have felt like a woman when it came time to take showers in PE," said Huckabee. "I'm pretty sure that I would have found my feminine side and said, 'Coach, I think I'd rather shower with the girls today.' You're laughing because it sounds so ridiculous, doesn't it?"

Young Mike Huckabee

Huckabee's joke certainly gives us a new image of the candidate in his adolescence, forever trying to think up scams that will get him into the girls' locker room. (From now on, every time Huckabee talks about his youth, I'm going to imagine it as an '80s teen comedy.) It also suggests that he's less broad-minded in this area than Pat Robertson, for whatever that's worth. Also, less broad-minded than the Iranian government. (Countdown to Caitlyn Jenner is the thin wedge for Sharia law! arguments in five… four… three…)

Still, Arkansas' former governor isn't the only person whose mind leaps quickly from the word transgender to the word bathroom. I am unaware, despite the candidate's claim, of any ordinances saying you "can't be offended" by what you see in a public restroom. But Florida lawmakers did recently debate whether discrimination against transgender toilet users should be required or banned, and a fight over who gets to use which school restrooms recently rattled California. The underlying fear—this idea that there's an army of horndogs ready to adopt a new gender identity just to spy or prey on people—seems ludicrous to me. I suppose I could imagine some anti-trans trolls trying the Huckabee Plan as a sort of protest. But given all the crap that transgender people have to put up with, does anyone really think the nation's schools are about to be overrun with horny teens switching from M to F just to see some boobs? For heaven's sake, kids have the Internet for that now.

These gender-politics debates always seem to take a long stop in the water closet. Feminists and antifeminists spent the '70s arguing about whether the Equal Rights Amendment would mandate unisex bathrooms. The gay rights movement had to contend with arguments like this one, from 1978: "Firefighters live in very close quarters, so close that if homosexuals were admitted…we would have to seriously consider providing separate bathrooms, showers, and living facilities for gays." A decade and a half later, when Washington was debating gays in the military, you heard the same sort of thing: "This tells me as a straight man showering in the barracks, that I have no choice but to expose myself to any gay men present." (A quick aside to anyone else exploring this history: If you Google the words gay, military, and bathroom together, you won't just find old news clippings. Word to the wise.)

I can't predict which way the latest washroom war will resolve itself. (Hopefully we'll all get our own personal port-a-johns.) But I'm pretty sure how the trans debate will play out: Americans will gradually get used to seeing transgender people in their day-to-day lives, and even if some folks don't buy the idea that your gender and your biological sex might be misaligned, most of them will come to tolerate it the same way they tolerate different religious beliefs. Beyond all the bluster, even fairly conservative people are willing to sigh and say, If that makes you happier, it's no skin off my nose. Be they flexible and diverse or rigidly imposed from on high, the restroom rules will be just a detail.

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  1. I dunno, when I’m in a public bathroom, I really could not care less about the genitalia or sexual orientation of the people in the room with me.

    I don’t want to learn about it. I don’t want to contemplate it. I take care of my business and so long as they leave me out of their business it’s all cool.

    I suspect that this attitude is the only one that will get people through this ‘crisis’.

    1. Restricting bathroom behavior is a dog whistle for discriminating against Republican lawmakers.

    2. This. Also, pee and poo don’t put most people in a sexy mood. I have to think bathrooms would be mostly “safe” if only because what’s going on in there is a bit gross.

      1. *lights HM signal*

        1. Reason doesn’t allow GGG links, dammit.

          1. We had coed bathrooms in college when we thought about sex with anything about every 30 seconds. Can’t say it was ever an issue. A courtesy flush is appreciated no matter the gender or orientation of the person in the stall next to you. Now can we get onto an issue that fucking matters already?

            1. Since you don’t think this issue matters, I’m sure you won’t mind the conservative side having their way.

              1. Personally, I could care less. Unisex bathrooms would be fine with me. But, I am with you on this one. If a sizable percentage of the population wants them segregated, then that is why we have them segregated, and I don’t care about that either. And, if a number of parents don’t want their little girls going into bathrooms with men who claim to feel like a woman, then accommodate them. The men who claim to be women can go somewhere else.

                Why can’t the transgendered women, who used to be men, use the men’s can in that circumstance? Since no guy would care.

                Oh right…feelings. And, theirs are way, way, way more important than the 7 year old girls.

      2. Yeah, but everything is ‘mostly’ safe.

    3. Most people are respectful of each other in restrooms, I think it’s the occasional creep that makes separate restrooms more appealing.

      1. Correct Lap and thus necessary to have a most basic definition of female and male and make them adhere to it. The creep will almost certainly assert that he is a chick just to take a peak in the ladies room. The TSA has bull dikes feeling up women at the airport.

        This whole thing is among the dumbest of stupid american distractions but is also a rather telling example of what a shithole this country is becoming.

        No one has the balls to tell a tranny that it is still a dude.

        If the tranny cuts its junk off, it still might just be interested in ladies as a new lesbian. I know if I was a lesbian, I would be checking out the ladies bodies in the restroom while washing hands. Same as any gay person does in the bathroom because like straight people, sex is an animal desire.

        One thing is for sure though, if everyone is allowed to go into every public bathroom, the creeps will have a field day with this. And there are ample amounts of sickos out there because the internet does not lie about that one.

        1. The only response I can come up with to this mess is that women aren’t getting naked in public restrooms, so I’m not sure how “checking out the ladies bodies” in there is any different than doing it on a public sidewalk.

    4. I have nothing to add. Just wanted to get the comment count above 500 for this thread.

      1. LOL

  2. Unisex bathrooms are the future. Just look how happy everyone was on Galactica.

    1. Yeah I want nothing to do with unisex bathrooms because contrary to popular belief women are WAY more disgusting than men and I do not want to have to remove menstrual blood from the damn toilet seat before I can take a dump.

      1. I don’t want to wait in line half an hour just to take a piss, either.

        1. Cis!

            1. Swiss Cis Piss?

              1. Nestle makes that now.

      2. The bathrooms in a dorm I lived in were essentially unisex because some of the men liked the women’s showers (which were much bigger) and the women liked how clean the men’s room was by comparison.

        The RA was an uptight prig about it, but none of the residents cared.

        1. Well we all know which bathroom you’ll be in.

          1. The secret bathroom in the basement that was clean, well stocked and never in use and where I could take a long, relaxed dump without having to worry about people wandering in?

            Yes. You guessed correctly: THE SECRET BATHROOM.

            1. I knew that was you destroying that beautiful porcelain throne.

          2. The one with the flush-button on the floor so he doesn’t have to touch anything someone else touched with their “poopy” hands?

          1. Wardman. The secret bathroom in Wardman looked like a scene from a horror movie though. There were streaked hand marks made with either mud or dried blood on the walls, pulled tile and shit like that.

            The secret bathroom in Ball was incredibly nice.

            1. The one in Ball on the first floor next to the front desk? I was a regular customer freshman year.

              1. No, there was an even more secret one in the storage area of the basement. If it weren’t always stocked with soap, tp and paper towels I would think it had been forgotten about by facility services.

                Pooping in private in a dorm is a glorious luxury.

                1. Oh man I totally forgot about Ball’s basement. That’s where they used to warehouse the begathon work study kids.

                  I’m just glad I spent my last three years there in Turner where shit was civilized.

            2. There were streaked hand marks made with either mud or dried blood

              Umm, probably not either mud or dried blood, really.

              1. Umm, probably not either mud or dried blood, really.

                🙂

                I was leaving other options up to the imagination. It really was something out of a horror set, but at least it was private.

        2. When I was in boarding school I used to use the women’s bathroom in the main building. It was in the area where parents and other visitors would check in so it was soooooo nice.

        3. When I was in boarding school I used to use the women’s bathroom in the main building. It was in the area where parents and other visitors would check in so it was soooooo nice.

          1. But the squirrels would peep in through the windows, correct?

      3. This. I spent some time as a nighttime janitor. The women’s bathrooms were almost always the grossest, explosive diarrhea, week old tampons etc. And these were women that most would consider “professional”.

        1. This is very true.

        2. these were women that most would consider “professional”

          You mean hookers, right? Isn’t that what “professional” means?

        3. I am currently employed as a janitor, and I concur?women’s restrooms are disaster areas. No way do I want to share public restrooms with females. I don’t care if guys in dresses use the men’s room.

      4. My first college was very, well, hippie. We had unisex bathrooms in my dorm. Women didn’t seem so sexy after sharing a bathroom for the reason you listed.

      5. i learned this from “unbreakable kimmy schmidt”. tina fey is funny enough she can get away with jokes that would get other people in trouble

      6. My first job was as a grocery store gofer….and yes, cleaning the women’s restroom was consistently *more* disgusting than the men’s. Noticeably more disgusting. I would not have believed that unless I’d seen it myself.

    2. Dude…Starship Troopers. They had unisex showers. So you could shower with Dina Meyer and Denise Richards. I’m 100% for this, just for the record.

      Dina still looks amazing but I’d prefer the young Denise. Also for the record.

      1. Now that’s a position I think we can all get behind.

        1. doggy style? how progressive of you.

          1. I prefer to look them in the eye.

            1. Gross.

            2. I prefer to look them in the eye.

              Isn’t that what the mirrors are for?

            3. Cyclops-fucker

            4. The brown eye?

      2. Sadly Denise was not in the Shower scene however since I’d take a young Dina Meyers over just about anyone from that era and there were several other super hot hardbodies in that scene it wasn’t a total loss

        1. I’d take a young Dina Meyers over just about anyone from that era

          Even Helen Hunt?

          1. Dude, I realize that you have…different tastes…but if you ever compare Helen Hunt to Dina Meyer again, I will borrow the Doomcock from Warty and personally rape you with it.

            All I know is ball…and good…and rape.

            1. Sheesh! I will keep my appreciation for Helen Hunt to myself.

              1. I recommend “The Sessions” to you. Her acting is quite good and you’ll have the opportunity to see, um, how well she ‘s aged.

                (I understand that the script diverted from the actual diary/journal significantly, however, and the movie is not accurate)

          2. Yes, even Helen Hunt.

            Hunt had the avantage of being hot but not so hot you knew you’d never stand a chance with her but Dina clearly had her beat.

            Even for that , I’d take Tea Leoni as that era’s hot but approachable blonde over Hunt

            1. Tea Leoni, Helen Hunt, Dina Meyers . . . do I have to choose?

              I’ve always had more of a thing for the “girl next door” anyway.

              That’s right: Mary Anne rather than Ginger.

              1. Mary Anne blew Ginger out of the freaking water.

        2. no that movie was a disaster. “dizzy flores” was a guy.

      3. Saw Dina (and Casper for that matter) this past weekend at Awesome Con.

        She’s still got it.

      4. Zombies vs transgenders: who would win?

        1. Ok, caveman zombies vs astronaut transgenders?

          1. Really? That’s the best you’ve got? Okay, so hairstylists, vs. fashion designers basically.

    3. nope, it’s all personal catheters and colostomy bags. THAT is the future.

      1. So everyone can be a double asshole? No thanks.

    4. I already treat bathrooms as if they are unisex. If there’s a line for the men’s I go to the women’s. I encourage others to do the same. Fuck you signs, I’m not going to listen to you.

      1. For the single person bathrooms, sure. But male privilege is shorter lines for the bathroom at busy venues. Also female bathrooms tend to be much nastier that you would imagine. I will gender assign myself according to which facility best suits my current needs, thank you.

        1. if they desegregate the bathrooms it will be nothing more than a race to the bottom.

          1. Whose bottom?

            1. Does it matter?

  3. “If you Google the words gay, military, and bathroom together, you won’t just find old news clippings. Word to the wise.”

    Something you no doubt spent many hours investigating 😉

  4. No public bathrooms, no problem

    1. Restaurants are required to have bathrooms for their customers. And they are “public accommodations”.

      1. but those are private facilities, not open to the public- only customers.

        1. Same issue, though.

      2. No restaurants, no problem.

        *licks finger, smooths eyebrow*

        1. $15 minimum wage get us closer

          1. +two bits

    2. Ah, the French argument: “The Enlightened Piss In The Street!”

      1. Now, some people think the world is what it ain’t
        To some I’m a sinner, to others a saint
        Some folks say, the world ain’t what it is
        All I know is I just got to take a wiz

        But where am I goin’ and where have I been
        My head’s in the clouds and my tail’s in a spin
        Jumpin’ out of planes for the thrill of it all
        Then I bounce right back and take a piss on the wall

        Politics, shmolitics, they oughta save their breath
        A mean streak,a blue streak, they sentence me to death
        Harangue me from a tree, twist and shout until I crawl
        Do the flip, do the flop, but piss on the wall

        Well, the Yanks hate the Reds and the Greeks hate the Turks
        I really hate to say it, but they’re all a bunch of jerks
        Seems like everybody’s shakin’ ’cause the big one’s ’bout to fall
        I’m just tryin’ to hold it steady while I piss on the wall

        Piss on the wall, piss on the wall

        1. A man’s ambition must indeed be small
          To write his name upon a shithouse wall
          But before I die I’ll add my regal scrawl
          To show the world I’m left with sweet fuck all

          And when all of us bold shithouse poets do die
          A monument grand they will raise to the sky
          A monument made just to mark our great wit
          A monument of solid shit now me boys

      2. “The Enlightened Piss In The Street!”

        No, the enlightened have a “piss boy” follow them around with a bucket.

        1. It’s good to be the king.

        2. Everything’s so GREEN!!

      3. In the US that’s grounds for the sex offender registry.

  5. OK Mr Huckabee, we are only going to take your claim seriously if you show you are serious.

    So if you want to be treated like a girl and be allowed to use the girls locker room please ensure that you are fully presenting as a girl for at least a week then we will determine your level of sincerity in your new orientation.

    1. Who are you to decide how serious a transgender’s identity is? Check your cishet privilege.

      1. New portmanteau: “cishit”, as in “cishit privilege”, which is what I thought you wrote at first glance.

    2. Huckabee is gender fluid.

  6. I am unaware, despite the candidate’s claim, of any ordinances saying you “can’t be offended” by what you see in a public restroom.

    But you will, and it won’t come from Camp Huckabee. Guess which camp it will come from?

  7. Oh, huck… “and you can’t be offended if” no one says you can’t be offended. What it says is that your being offended isn’t enough to make a law…

    1. Wait a second…

    2. I thought he was complaining about laws adding “gender identity” and “gender expression” to the list of protected classes.

      Or to put it plainly, telling businesses how they *must* treat transgender employees or customers.

      Not just bathrooms, but company dress codes, for example – so you can be fined for insisting your male employees wear suits and ties and your female employees wear skirts, because some of the male employees may identify as female and vice versa.

      If you don’t want Huckabee and his ilk to be the ones defending business freedom, then defend it yourself and deprive him of the credit!

      1. I used to have a guy that worked for me who liked to wear a kilt to work.

        Had a couple of other managers try to complain about it being against the dress code but I told them to go pound sand because his kilt met all of the criteria in the dress code for dresses/skirts and he was the best tester on my team

        1. I’m not saying businesses *should* have strict dress codes, just that they should have to right to adopt such codes.

      2. Keep in mind in all this that male and man (and female and woman) are not the same thing.

        Male/female are *sexes* and man/woman are genders.

        You can certainly require all your *male* employees to dress in a suit and tie.

        This still leaves open what to do with transsexuals – are they now female or surgically modified males?

        1. Leave it up to the business, rather than let them be sued into the ground for having the “wrong” policy? That’s what I’d suggest.

          1. That’s also what I would suggest. Its what I always suggest. I got a lot of shit on Ars Technica because (the fucking statists have won) I suggested that the EU mandating the USB standard was the government sticking its nose in to solve something that isn’t even a problem in the first place and will cause more problems in the future when its time to replace the USB standard.

            “oh noes! I have a drawer full of unusable (and unused) old phone chargers! Whatever will I do?! Everytime I buy a new phone they provide a new charger with it!”

            1. I got a lot of shit on Ars Technica because (the fucking statists have won) I suggested that the EU mandating the USB standard was the government sticking its nose in to solve something that isn’t even a problem in the first place and will cause more problems in the future when its time to replace the USB standard.

              Huh? AFAIK, there were two AT eras; radically progressive and statist. I think, even uttering the phrase “It might not be the best idea.” on their forums is enough to get banned. The degree to which their forums get policed is ridiculous.

          2. think of the poor lawyers man. they need stupid arguments to get paid to resolve. unisex bathrooms are like over the counter birth control, it’s too easy an answer.

  8. My wife’s work just issued a new policy where employees may use whatever bathroom they identify with at the time. She’s not too happy, being that she’s afraid some creep is going to use it as an excuse to harass (or worse) someone (like her) in the women’s room. Then when she expressed her concern she got reprimanded by the pc management. At least she’s only got a few more weeks before she leaves that shithole.

    1. As asinine as it is, I understand management’s fear. They’re hedging based on which side is more likely to sue and cause them untold amounts of grief and legal fees.

      1. A (born-female) woman has already been tossed from a gym for complaining that transgender and I believe even pre-op trans people are allowed to use the women’s locker room.

    2. your wife’s fears are unfounded. Anyone who would do that isn’t NOT doing it already because of the sign on the door.

      1. I know. She also thinks a white van is going to pull into the driveway and kidnap the kid if we let the kid play outside alone. Whatever. I still think it’s a stupid policy.

        1. Does your wife also watch Forensic Files non-stop? She sounds like a clone of mine.

          1. She doesn’t watch much tv.

        2. Whatever. I still think it’s a stupid policy.

          That’s because you secretly hope she’s right.

          1. About the sprog, not the bathroom creeper.

    3. I have to wonder… if you could wave the proverbial magick wand and say, “both bathrooms are open to either sex” how many men would be crossing over to the women’s bathrooms, and how many women would cross over to the men’s?

      1. Speaking for myself, all that matters is which one has the shorter line. I do my best to ignore others in the bathroom and hope they’d all do the same.

        1. “Speaking for myself, all that matters is which one has the shorter line.”

          So a shoo-inSo women crossing over to men’s.

      2. I’ve actually been to some gay, but mainly lesbian event, long ago, something like Melissa Etheridge at RFK stadium to raise money for the Human Rights Campaign. The lesbians outnumbered guys over 10-1 and so took over the men’s bathrooms. Huge lines for toilets. If you just wanted a urinal though they were available. You just had to pee with lines of lesbians behind you.

        1. “You just had to pee with lines of lesbians behind you.”

          If I had to pee, a line of lesbians behind me wouldn’t even register a 0.6 out of 10 on my Give-A-Shit-O-Meter.

        2. i used to go to gay nights at clubs in boston with an old lesbian roommate, and what would almost always happen was one bathroom would be the bathroom, and the other one would be the coke den. it was alright!

    4. So your wife actually thinks Mike Huckabee’s absurd fantasies are believable?

    5. Just out of curiosity. If she’s afraid her coworkers are out to get her, what’s to stop them from harassing her in other small, semi-private spaces such as personal offices, supply closets or copier rooms?

      1. Or her car? What if one of them stows away in her back seat and throws paperclips at her while she’s driving?

      2. I don’t think she thinks anyone is out to get her personally. More that she thinks some creep will, with management’s blessing, hang out in the women’s restroom and be all creepy.

        Joke would be on the dude though. Women are slobs in public restrooms. Worse than men. That and my wife said that she’s almost hurled a couple times from the leftover odor of disgusting swamp-pussy left behind by some hygienically-challenged coworker. I’d like to see some creep get a load of that.

        1. Joke would be on the dude though.

          No shit, this is real life not Lobstertube.

        2. “Swamp-pussy” is a winner. I shall use it in my own, very courteous daily conversations.

      3. Don’t make it more difficult for sarc, jesse. He should never tell his wife about the two reprobates who rubbed their penii on the keyboards, desk handles, door knobs, et cetera, of women they had an unnatural interest in.

        1. Or the dude in Minnesota who jacked off in the woman’s coffee after she refused to go on a date with him?

          1. Did she beat him without mercy?

          2. Do you know how expensive non-dairy creamer is these days? JEEEZZZZ!

    6. Actually if your wife really wanted the policy to end all she needed to do is walk into the mens bathroom when there was just 1 C level executive and just casually drop a hint about how it was a good thing that it was a loyal employee like her in that situation and how awful it would be if it was someone out to make a buck with a sexual harrassment suit that found themselves alone in the bathroom with said exec.

      1. Rasilio, I like the way you think.

        The only thing I would add is a suggestion that the company’s best defense against this is to put video cameras in all the bathrooms.

        1. There goes all my H&R time.

    7. To be fair, harassment is actually a crime.

      However, the management handled your wife’s concerns like assholes.

    8. She should make a big show of taking a massive can of bear spray (amped up pepper spray) into the bathroom from now on.

      http://www.udap.com/product.htm

    9. There are already laws on the books in all states that cover predatory behavior, regardless of sex or locale and statistically, the number of sexual predators who are willing to cross dress to commit a rape or other assault are very low. The number of transgender individuals who commit such crimes are an order of magnitude lower. We have far more concern for what others will do to us than you should worry what we will do to you. I’m sorry your wife works in shithole, perhaps it’s not a shithole just because of the policy? I mean, there has to be more, right?

      1. Sincerely curious; can you provide any citation for your assertions (rate of sexual predators willing to cross dress, rate of sexual predation by transgendered)?

    10. Why does not the employer make all restrooms unisex?

  9. I guess that’s why they call chucklebee teh huckster! He’s always good for a belly laugh.

  10. If you think about it, this really shouldn’t be an issue. Ladies rooms don’t have urinals, so the trans-women are going to be behind closed doors in a stall when they pee.
    Trans-men don’t have penises, so they are going to be behind closed doors in a stall when they pee.

    Thus, there is pretty much zero chance that a child is going to see the genitalia of anyone of a different gender.

    1. Well, there was that guy with boobs that liked to use the urinal right next to the only other person in the bathroom at my former place of employment.

      Dude(tte?) was breaking the cardinal rule of urinal selection.

    2. Everyone knows M to Fs are just going to whip it out and piss all over the floor and sinks in front of children, Hazel. I mean, THEY CAN, CAN’T THEY?

      1. Ha! yeah, after years of hormones, the word extensible dropped out of my vocabulary.

        “Everyone knows M to Fs are just going to whip it out and piss all over the floor and sinks in front of children, Hazel. I mean, THEY CAN, CAN’T THEY?”

        Not without hands, a funnel, a bottle and a turkey baster, no,

    3. Stop othering me with your reasonable calm demeanor. Everybody should FREAK OUT.

      1. *obligingly panics, runs in circles flapping arms*

    4. Look here, you rational argument doesn’t hold water in a debate about something people think is icky!

      1. You know what else doesn’t hold water, don’t you?

        1. The Aral Sea, anymore?

        2. A placenta at 10 months?

    5. But what if that Trans-man is only pretending to pee while standing at the urinal and checking out my junk? Do you realize there is a 0.00000000001% chance of that happening? Are you willing to live wit those odds? Because I’m not.

      /Huck

    6. Damn. I should have refreshed. I said the exact same thing below.

    7. Ladies rooms don’t have urinals

      What do you think sinks are for?

    8. So the answer is to create “urinals-only” bathrooms?

    9. Ladies rooms don’t have urinals,

      Some do…

  11. In my office building the women are making the men’s restrooms “unisex” by using them whenever they feel like. It’s a little weird when they act TERRIBLY INCONVENIENCED that a man is in there when they walk in, but besides that it’s been without incident.

  12. Ok, I have several points to make here:

    Point 1: Bruce Jenner has already admitted that he is still attracted to women. You cant deny that some women would feel uncomfortable letting him into the womens bathroom because of that.

    Point 2: pretty much nobody wants unisex bathrooms. I dont know about you guys but i dont want to have to worry about a potential future girlfriend walking in on me taking a nasty shit in the morning, and i think girls would feel the same….

    Point 3: If you absolutely have to create unisex bathrooms, there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I witnessed the wrong way recently at my state’s state university. In the student union they now have unisex bathrooms. They didnt create new bathrooms, or modify existing ones. No, they literally just took the mens and womens signs off the doors and called it a day. you should have seen how confused everyone was lol

    Point 4: this whole “bathroom etiquette” thing is totally sexist anyway. If a guy walks into the womens room he is a sick pervert who will probably end up on a sex offenders list. If a girl walks into a mens room she is “goofy” and “fun” and a “strong independent womyn”

    1. For your point 3 I think that’s the best way to do it. Everyone should be confused to show how inane the whole thing is.

      1. I think that just might work. It was definitely entertaining watching people walk in one door, then walk back out with a confused look on their face, walk in the other door, rinse and repeat

      2. Some of the more “lefty” shops in town have recently removed their sign’s. Obviously Salon et al sent out a memo and soon we’ll see protests at establishments with signs…

    2. Point 5: It should be up to the owner of the establishment to decide how to structure the bathroom arrangements. If they want unisex, great. If they want men’s, women’s, in-betweener’s, and unspecified, great.

      1. I agree 100%. Just let the free market clear this all up. You aren’t happy that a restaurant has male and female instead of unisex? ok, eat somewhere else
        Mad because Target doesn’t have bathrooms for dolphin-people with a 200 gallon tank of saltwater to pee in? fine, shop at another store that does have dolphin-people bathrooms

        If enough people agree with you and stop shopping there, it will go out of business

        1. Oh shit, you aren’t going to dredge up the Dolphin vs Tuna bathroom controversy again?

          Look we made a mistake when we tried to have a uni-species tank that fish AND mammals could piss in. Who could have known that the net we put in the tank to give them a bit of privacy would lead to them all getting caught in it and drowning?

    3. Bisexuals and lesbians use the ladies as well, and we do not have a rampant crisis of assault going on because of it.

      1. Being in the bathroom is like going to Carnival, as soon as you set foot inside all social rules go out the window.

        1. We all know about your gloryhole adventures, jesse!

          1. Zing!

            That’s fair though.

          2. Gives a whole new meaning to the movie The Purge

        2. There are just different social rules.

          For instance, outside of the bathroom, it is only proper to laugh at farts, or at someone miming a tough shit. In the bathroom, farts and loud shits are serious business and should be afforded the proper respect.

          1. Bathroom Jihad

            http://www.craigslist.org/abou…..13997.html

            1. Finally someone who can compete with Nutrasweet

              1. That comment….made it highly unlikely I would click that link.

                1. But you still did, right?

                  It is pretty good.

                  1. After PJ’s picture, I’m quite hesitant to look at anything for the rest of the day, MJ.

        3. I think of the women’s room as being more like Thunderdome.

          1. 2 men enter, 1 man leaves?

          2. Nah, way more blood on the walls of the womens room

      2. Bisexuals and lesbians use the ladies as well, and we do not have a rampant crisis of assault going on because of it.

        That’s because only males have predatory sexual instincts.

      3. I must have missed this memo…

    4. Point 1: Bruce Jenner has already admitted that he is still attracted to women. You cant deny that some women would feel uncomfortable letting him into the womens bathroom because of that.

      How many women are uncomfortable with lesbians using the bathroom? And even if there are some, “society” obviously does not care.

      1. It’s beside the point, why are we legislating excretory accommodations?

        1. Are we legislating them for lesbians?

      2. I don’t know how many women are uncomfortable with lesbains in the bathroom, but i could almost guarantee that SOME of them are. Just as I said SOME women would feel uncomfortable. Similar to how SOME men would feel uncomfortable in the restroom at a gay bar

        Also, this is beside the point as you are talking about biological females using the female bathroom whereas the topic (I believe) is transgender people using the opposite bathroom

        1. So if it’s okay for women to go to the bathroom in the same room as women who are sexually attracted to women, why would it be not okay for women to go to the bathroom in the same room as trans women who are not sexually attracted to women?

          You understand that gender identity and sexual orientation are different, right? And if the issue isn’t, “Someone in the bathroom might find me sexy,” what is it?

          1. “why would it be not okay for women to go to the bathroom in the same room as trans women who are not sexually attracted to women?”

            My point is that Jenner is a “transwoman” who IS still attracted to women. Its ignorant and stupid to think no one would be offended or uncomfortable by what is essentially a straight man with makeup on sitting in the stall next to them. If a straight man walks into a womens room, just because he wants to, that is a big problem for a lot of women. But, once he puts on some make up and pins his junk back, even though he is still attracted to women, it then becomes ok?

            1. Jenner is not a straight man; she is a lesbian woman. I do not see any material way in which she is different from a lesbian woman in a social context. I don’t do genetic testing when I casually walk by people in public.

              1. I don’t do genetic testing when I casually walk by people in public.

                You really are the worst!

                *turns off tricorder and puts it back in holster*

              2. Hey Nikki,

                Do you find humor in this brief skit?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCws7hkH02s

                It’s a serious question.

                1. I thought it was hilarious.

                  1. Thanks, Ag. I did as well.

                    I didn’t find it disrespectful or demeaning but want other viewpoints.

          2. It’s the penis.

            Just like guns are magical devices of murder that compel their holders into comitting atrocities against their will, Penii are magical devices of rape that could force even the most comitted radfem to rape their sisters if they were to wield one.

        2. Uhm, if you’re at a gay bar either you’re gay or you’re comfortable enough with homosexuality to hang out with your gay friends at their local meat market.

          1. I agree, Ag.

    5. i dont want to have to worry about a potential future girlfriend walking in on me taking a nasty shit in the morning

      Welcome to marriage, bub.

      1. Pooping with the door open: one of the things that premarital counselors never seem to cover sufficiently.

    6. Point 1 – no more than when they realize that *any* of the other women could be lesbians.

      Point 2 – Lock the door? Where would you be living that this is a problem? And, frankly, if your potential girlfriend is for anything other than being used to sate your lust she’s going to understand that you’re *alive* and living people take craps.

      1. Point 1: believe it or not, you COULD be made uncomfortable by both

        Point 2: College dorms

        1. Point 1: believe it or not, you COULD be made uncomfortable by both

          I’m confused as to why you think this helps your case. I mean, if your only reason for saying this is to assert that it is factually true that some women could, hypothetically, be uncomfortable with this, then sure, you’re correct. That doesn’t get your argument very far unless you can articulate some reason why anyone should care.

          1. It was more of a refute to his argument. I said some women would be uncomfortable, Ag said thye wouldn’t be uncomfortable “when they realize that *any* of the other women could be lesbians.”

            My point is that just because any women in the bathroom could be a lesbian, doesn’t mean women wouldn’t be uncomfortable letting a biological man who is still attracted to women into the womens room.

            1. I did not say they would not be uncomfortable.

              I just point out that that discomfort is materially identical to that they would experience if a lesbian used the restroom.

              And I still don’t understand why that discomfort would *matter* when deciding whether or not to legislate for (or against) this.

              Nobody seriously considered the feelings of committed racists when we ended the outlawing of miscegenation.

              Its a property right issue – *that’s* the platform we should all here be able to agree on – the rest of this is bringing in social issues that have no bearing on the matter.

              If you find it icky, fine – but don’t dilute the *important* message here by throwing in a bunch of ‘well he’s still a man and should use the men’s room’ and ‘women might be uncomfortable’ out and then add in ‘oh by the way the government shouldn’t get involved in what is basically a private transaction’. Its disingeneous. disengnious. disingen*u*ous!

              1. You essentially did say they wouldn’t be uncomfortable. and the situation is not materially identical, whether you want to admit it or not there is a difference between a transexual woman who is attracted to women and a lesbian

                I agree with you on the government thing, obv this is none of their business to regulate something like this.

                But the argument about committed racists is not really applicable. Being a racist is not the same as not wanting my hypothetical 12 year old daughter to go into the bathroom with a 47 year old man wearing a dress

                1. Who says they have to wear a dress? Could be he says he identifies as a woman but likes to wear men’s clothes. Who’s to say otherwise?

      2. In over 13 years years of marriage to my lovely wife, I swear I have never heard or smelled her fart. It’s amazing.

        1. Long distance relationship, huh?

    7. Point 2: pretty much nobody wants unisex bathrooms. I dont know about you guys but i dont want to have to worry about a potential future girlfriend walking in on me taking a nasty shit in the morning, and i think girls would feel the same….

      You haven’t been to college in the last two decades, have you? Unisex bathrooms are very common in the dorms and you usually have to specifically request an opt out which may not be honored.

      1. Actually i have been to college in the last 2 decades. In the last 2 years, even.

        And no, besides the point in my original comment about the local state uni, I haven’t seen unisex bathrooms in dorms anywhere or even heard of them, but i do believe you that they are becoming common, I just haven’t seen any

    8. Point 1: Okay, does that mean there should be lesbians-only bathrooms too? Because unless the photoshopping on that VF cover was a lot better than we all thought, she is ill-equipped to whip anything out in there.

  13. If he meant “can’t be offended” as in, being a public person and voicing your offense, then yes you are not allowed to be offended.

  14. What do people expect to see in the ladies? We don’t have a urinal, it’s just stalls. Do they imagine that years of training at sharing a bathroom in their private home will go out the window, and in the sudden confusion at not seeing a public urinal a pre-op will dunk it into the sink?

    Logic. I can understand that people have the feelz, but the logical argument makes the world come into focus a wee bit better.

    1. What do people expect to see in the ladies?

      A…a glory hole? Hopefully?

      Dee: Why would you wanna have sex with someone you can’t see?

      Dennis: Well, Dee, I think the real question is …why wouldn’t you wanna have sex with someone you can’t see?

    2. I mean, sometimes there is a couch in there. And hair products. And a tampon dispenser that has not been used in years.

      1. Ah-HA!

    3. With the new Unisex Revolution all bathrooms will be equipped with troughs (more egalitarian than individual urinals) and women will have to learn how to piss standing up.

      http://www.wikihow.com/Urinate…..s-a-Female

      1. I’m going to click on that and if it’s not the weirdly drawn guide that has a flower for a vagina I’m going to be upset.

        My understanding from friends who have tried is the two fingered hook and lift technique is the easiest to master. Index and ring not the index from both hands.

        1. Blast, it’s the same article, but they’ve update their images. The old ones were hysterical.

        2. the two fingered hook and lift

          Sounds like a George Costanza move.

  15. Also, I don’t like nobody touching me. Now, any of you homos touch me, and I’ll kill you.

    1. Lighten up, Princess.

      1. I think she could use a good kiss.

  16. This puts a whole new spin on Mary Had A Little Lamb

    1. With mint sauce and a nice chianti?

      1. With no petosin to induce labor?

  17. There is a thing about this.

    The “42-year-old man who feels more like a woman than he does a man.” wants to use that restroom because it’s the womens restroom and he wants to feel like a woman and have the safety and womanliness he feels comes with being in a woman-only space like a woman’s restroom.

    He doesn’t give a shit about how the women without penises feel about having someone with a penis barge in.

    And that says a whole lot.

  18. Huckabee’s joke certainly gives us a new image of the candidate in his adolescence, forever trying to think up scams that will get him into the girls’ locker room.

    And your’s wasn’t? FAG!!!!!! /sarc

    OT: just passed a TV in the break room at work tuned to CNN. The caption at the bottom of the screen: “Peter King considering presidential run” and his fat fucking IRA supporting face was up their blathering about something. I don’t know what exactly because I had to walk away before I threw up in my mouth.

    At this point I think for the debates the candidates should enter to the song Still Counting by Volbeat: “counting all the assholes in the room…”

  19. Again, this goes beyond bathrooms, it involves the government forcing businesses to cater to the delusions of certain customers/employees. That should be up to the business, not up to some litigation-happy trans persyn who can call down the power of the government on, say, a boss who wants women to wear skirts and men to wear suits and ties.

    *If* you want to force businesses to accommodate the mentally ill, use the Americans with Disabilities Act, which is already on the books (though the ADA has its own problems, at least it’s already been enacted so we already have to deal with it). Don’t force businesses to pretend that Stan/Loretta is behaving normally.

    1. It’s a pity you wrapped that good argument in all that self-masturbatory packaging. That’s an argument I can get behind, but all that icky stuff going on in front is distracting.

      1. Numero uno, what other kinds of masturbation are there other than self-masturbation?

        Numero two-o, what constitutes masturbation in my post?

          1. Ah, yes, like Thomas Jefferson’s *master*bation.

            (let’s see how often I can recycle that joke)

          2. Sometimes you have to masturbate a lot of people in a short period of time, HM.

            1. No stick figure should have a stick dick that big.

              1. That statement feels out of character for you.

        1. You took a perfectly good non-interference argument and couched it into terms of your personal emotional prejudices, is what I’m saying. The opportunity for the original double entendre was an irresistible bonus.

          1. I used a double entendre?

            1. *whooosh*

              1. Oh, you mean this: “That’s an argument I can get behind, but all that icky stuff going on in front is distracting.”

                Sorry, I’m so used to that sort of thing at H&R it’s just background noise now:)

        2. Look up “dutch rudder” sometime.

          1. I’m so glad I used DuckDuckGo to look that one up. They supposedly don’t track you.

    2. You know they’re deluded because they disagree with your concepts of sexuality? Of course, such an argument coming from you isn’t surprising.

  20. Huckabee isn’t the only one who obsesses over bathroom segregation. Herewith Seattle’s Dan Savage on the subject

    Hey, reporters covering the 2016 Republican nomination contest: Asking Jeb, Rand, Marco, Ted, Lindsey, Donald, Carly, Rick, Rick, George, Ben, et al, which public restroom they think their fellow Republican Caitlyn Jenner should have to use?the men’s restroom or the women’s restroom (in places not evolved enough, of course, to have gender-neutral restrooms, aka most places)?is a totally legitimate question.

    http://www.thestranger.com/blo…..anity-fair

    Seems to be a big deal for 2016.

    1. Fucking great. Because that’s exactly what we should be talking about right now.

    2. Fucking great. Because that’s exactly what we should be talking about right now.

      1. My Fallout 4 trigger finger is acting up

    3. Let me guess: “I don’t care” or “That’s up for the person/establishment to decide” are not legitimate answers.

    4. As Hazel pointed out above – considering she has to use a stall now, I’m not sure it matters.

  21. . . . city . . . ordinances say that your 7-year-old daughter, if she goes into the restroom cannot be offended and you can’t be offended . . .

    1. I would like Huckabee to list a *single* city ordinance that says that you can’t be offended by this.

    2. And I would like to see the underlying statistics for the claim that ‘city after city’ is doing this. In 5-10 years this may well be the case, that a huge sea change sweeps the nation and cities legislatively remove gender-segregated bathrooms but its not happening on a large-scale right now.

    Don’t like this and want to stop it before it reaches critical mass – fine. Don’t lie about it. That’s the shit your shitbag opponents do. If you do it also it just tells everyone that you will do anything to gain power – which is an immediate disqualification from having any.

    1. And. correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t most cities lack a legal requirement for sex-separation in restrooms? That a man found in the ladies is guilty of trespassing at worst?

    2. In 5-10 years this may well be the case, that a huge sea change sweeps the nation and cities legislatively remove gender-segregated bathrooms but its not happening on a large-scale right now.

      What possible reason do you have to think it won’t be widespread? Ten years ago people were saying gay marriage laws and laws banning discrimination against gays would cause businesses who refused to participate in gay wedding to be run out of business. And people like you were calling them paranoid. Well, how did that work out.

      You don’t like Huckabee and frankly I don’t like him either. Like him or not, the gay rights activists mean to run him and everyone like him out of society. Maybe you agree with that. Even if you do, I don’t see how you can blame him for not liking it and seeing it for what it is.

      1. I *don’t*.

        I’m saying that if he’s trying to stem this tide before it takes off then he should be honest about that.

        As it is he’s talking about it as if this is something that’s on the agenda of every middle-sized city in the country right not – and its not.

        1. If it is not, it is only because the activists haven’t gotten around to it. Gun control is not on the agenda of many cities right now. That doesn’t mean the people who support gun control don’t have the goal of making sure it is and don’t have the power to do so if left unopposed. Same thing here.

          1. YES. That. Is. My. Point. That activists *haven’t* gotten around to it so he shouldn’t be running around screaming like its going to happen tomorrow.

            Its fucking dishonest.

            You don’t like it and you’re fighting against it and you can see that in the mid-term future its going to take off so you’re standing against right now – but you don’t falsely claim that city after city is doing this right now for rhetorical ammo.

            *That’s* why Hucklebee is a shitbag in this case. Yellow Campaigning.

            1. I see your point but I and pretty much everyone else on this board makes the same accusations against the gun grabbers that Huckabe is making against the Trans activists here. For that reason, I can’t really hold this against him no matter what my opinion of Huckabe.

      2. That’s why we have libertarians. Somebody has to remind us that there are worse things than having nazis take over your country. And libertarians never fail to step right up to the plate.

  22. there is nothing I fear more than the phasing out of the bathroom trough, which the most efficient toilet system for urine ever devised.

    1. There’s no reason to phase it out. Ladies can walk by to get to the toilets.

    2. Troughs still exist? I’ve only seen them in foreign countries and occasionally stadia. Removing troughs from high-volume event venues should make the property holder criminally liable.

      1. Nascar, they will always exist in Nascar.

      2. a trough exists in Murphy’s Irish Pub in Long Beach, CA.

  23. Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Mike Huckabee? Morons

    1. Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

      *beard stroke*

  24. This story buries the lede. I would think this would be about how some governments want to restrict business freedom by forcing them to cater to the delusions of a certain class of customer/employee, instead of deciding for themselves how to handle such people.

    If Huckabee had never said anything, the issue would still exist.

    1. Exactly. But transvestites are the new sacred group. So principles and personal autonomy get thrown out the window. People are pushing for laws that make private businesses open their bathrooms to transvestites of the opposite sex.

      Jessee is right that it is always about bathrooms but wrong about who that phrase refers to. It isn’t Huckabee who is saying the government should tell private businesses how they should run their bathrooms.

      1. Isn’t it funny how men have the freedom to self-identify as women, and half-black, half-white democratic presidents have the freedom to self-identify as 100% black, but a brown republican governor born in Baton Rouge who self-identifies as a Christian America is a horrible and despicable person?

        Well, at least according to some dipshit “libertarians” who work for this journal these days in any event. The libertarianism around here sure takes some rather odd twists and turns.

        1. . . . but a brown republican governor born in Baton Rouge who self-identifies as a Christian America is a horrible and despicable person?

          Uh, wat?

          Does being brown, Republican, and a Christian from LA mean that you *can’t* be a horrible person for some reason?

        2. I think part of it is that they seem to have not fully absorbed the victory that was Lawrence v. Texas. Back in the 1970s when Libertarians first came up with the idea of gay marriage, being gay was a criminal offense in nearly every state. So, saying “gays should be able to marry” was really just an extreme way of saying being gay shouldn’t be illegal. Well, thanks to Lawrence, it is no longer illegal to be gay or wear a dress or whatever. Once it was no longer illegal, Libertarians should have declared victory and moved on. But gay rights were just too socially acceptable to walk away from. So they continue to support things that really have nothing to do with freedom and everything to do with coerced acceptance.

          1. I think your insights into what motivates libertarians are as worthless as ever.

            1. That don’t describe your motivations because you are batshit insane Cytotoxic. They do, however describe the motivations of sane people. Discerning your motivations would require a team of specialist working for years in Vienna or somewhere.

              1. Tell us how all the gays who want to get married are really out to slam Christian bakers John.

                1. I have a string of businesses who are broke because of objecting to gay marriage. What do you have Cytoxic? A kiss on the cheek and a promise to call me in the morning?

                  Just be honest and admit how happy you were when you saw those bakers getting what was coming to them. I bet you had an orgasm when you heard about that. Finally the boot was on a face where it belonged.

        3. It might have something to do with Jindal being a fucking statist shitheel.

  25. For those who do not think that we are under threat

    This is why we mock socons, Mikey boy. Complain about trans folks if you want, but don’t do it in such stupid, sissy language. You’re threatened by the occasional penised person going into women’s bathrooms?

    THESE WEIRDOS ARE GOING TO DESTROY CIVILIZATION!!

    1. I am threatened by the government telling me who can and cannot use the bathroom if I run a business. That is a real threat. Fuck trannies. If they don’t like my bathroom policy, they should get the fuck off of my property. And double fuck them if their solution to that is to come back with the sheriff to put a gun to my head.

      1. Except you (and others) have spent a huge amount of time arguing from ‘social norms’ and not from private property rights.

        I’m sure that you do believe that the government should not tell you who can use your bathroom – but it seems more because you don’t want trannies in there and the PP argument is a (damn good) fig leaf to cover for that.

        1. Show me one place I have ever argued from social norms. I frankly don’t even know what that even means. So, I am not sure how could have made an argument that I don’t understand.

          Show me one place where I have ever said a business should not be able to let trannies use whatever bathroom they want. If I have, I don’t remember doing it. If you can show me where I have, then I will admit I was wrong to take the position.

          As far as trannies go, I really have no beef against them, but the activist community and frankly people like you are starting to cause me to have a beef against them. So what if I don’t like them? I don’t like a lot of people. I would never support making what they do illegal or the government oppressing them in any way. I do not however owe them my approval. Mostly I feel sorry for them and think they are mentally ill and are being cruelly enabled by people who really don’t care about them and just want to use the issue to social signal and feel good about themselves.

          1. Fair enough – my mistake. I lumped you in with others when (in this thread at the very least) you been pretty focused on the property angle.

      2. That’s not the threat that Huckabee is going on about. After all the stuff that Walker quoted, Huckabee concludes:

        “That there is something inherently wrong about forcing little children to be a part of this social experiment. I’m not against anybody. I’d just like for somebody to bring their brain to work some day and not leave it on the bed stand when they show up to govern.”

        I don’t see anything about property rights or freedom of association.

        He/”we” are “under threat” because weirdos want to use different bathrooms. That’s his argument. That’s obviously what he’s saying, it’s obvious what fears and attitudes he’s trying to exploit. He’s not addressing business owners or bemoaning the ordinances as a matter of violating owners’ rights.

        Wild guess: Huckabee, and many of the people he is addressing or who agree with him, would be a-OK with ordinances that forbid buildings from allowing trans to use the bathroom they want. If you have a penis, you MUST go to the men’s bathroom, or you will be penalized.

        1. Maybe they would be. But so what? If and when they start pushing those ordinances, I will be right there with you objecting.

          1. Cool. I guess I need to reiterate that I’m mocking Huckabee and his concerns, not you and yours.

            1. John gets confused easily when he’s angry, which is pretty often.

    2. If by “weirdos” you mean people who want the government to force a “solution” to this non-problem on businesses, then yes these weirdos are attacking civilization.

      As for people confused about their gender identity – I’m sure they’re mostly very nice if you stay off the subject of their monomania. They’re certainly not threats, unless the activists among them want to harness the power of government to bully others.

      1. If by “weirdos” you mean people who want the government to force a “solution” to this non-problem on businesses, then yes these weirdos are attacking civilization.

        That’s not what he’s talking about. You’re kind of stupid Eddie.

        1. I know what he said, I was riffing on his remarks, not slavishly following them. Earthlings call that humor.

          “You’re kind of stupid Eddie.”

          As Benjamin Disraeli once said to an opponent during a Parliamentary debate, “I may be stupid, Sir, but you are a poopyhead.”

    3. This is why we mock socons, Mikey boy. Complain about trans folks if you want, but don’t do it in such stupid, sissy language. You’re threatened by the occasional penised person going into women’s bathrooms?

      It’s also why we mock SJWs.

  26. does anyone really think the nation’s schools are about to be overrun with horny teens switching from M to F just to see some boobs? For heaven’s sake, kids have the Internet for that now.

    The ongoing freakout about “childrens'” interest in their (and others’) bodies and sexuality is really beginning to bum me out.
    INQUIRING LITTLE MINDS WANT TO KNOW. They always have. They always will.

  27. OT (maybe covered earlier today):

    AmSpec column supports reforming, not abolishing the Ex-Im Bank.

    1. So they’re in Phase 2, with Phase 1 being “it’s totally not a problem and the program is fine as it is!”

      Phase 2 being “well, maybe there’s some bugs in the system, but we can get them out without doing something so radical as actually abolishing a flawed program!”

      1. Pretty much. It’s a fairly obtuse piece that has all kinds of problems particularly of the seen/unseen variety.

        Two especially bizarre statements for someone trying to defend Ex-Im:

        Contrary to how Ex-Im Bank is sometimes portrayed in a blur of criticism, it does not exist to extend low rate financing to major Fortune 500 companies that already have access to banking and capital markets. Typically, Ex-Im Bank makes direct loans to foreign governments and government owned companies, and other foreign firms to support their purchase of American capital goods.

        This is exactly what various writers at Reason, Cato, and Mises have used to criticize the bank. He doesn’t even address those criticisms, rather seeing this as a plus.

        and

        Abolishing Ex-Im Bank would also allow other countries to perceive yet more evidence of a U.S. withdrawal from global affairs ? as if leading from behind, a precipitous withdrawal from Iraq, the sudden rise of ISIS, and disenchanted allies in Europe and the Middle East were not enough.

        Umm, yeah: no Ex-Im = rise of ISIS

        1. Fun fact: One of the major factors in the Sunni-Shia split was taxes. More specifically, those who would become the Shia believed that the zakat tax (often mistranslated as “charity”…though “tithe” is closer, it is unambiguously a tax) was only owed to Muhammad; thus, Caliph Abu Bakr wasn’t owed anything. The followers of Abu Bakr considered not paying the zakat as apostasy, and thus those who didn’t pay the tax were fair game.

      2. Unfortunately Phase 3 is an increase in budget.

        Phase 4 is GOTO 1

  28. For the record, based on this thread, literally the worst that that could happen because of this is someone you might want to sleep with someday might hear you poop.

    That could already happen, since homosexuals exist.

    Great job, guys.

    1. So you’re in favor of the government saying how the scheisshaus should be setup?

      1. Did I say that?

        1. You seem to be straying very close to that argument.

          1. No, she’s saying that the only legitimate argument the anti-side has provided (and IMO the only one *needed*) is that its private property and the government should butt out.

            All the others boil down to ‘someone of the opposite sex might see me poop and that would make me uncomfortable’.

            A legitimate concern for a private property owner to take into consideration when formulating restroom use policy but completely irrelevant when debating the merits of a government action.

            1. She didn’t mention property rights until the post at 2:10 below. Up until that point it was just mocking those people who might disagree with mixed bathrooms.

              The property rights issue is the only issue here since we are discussing politicians who aspire to use the levers of government to achieve their vision of society. Everything else is a red herring.

              And if Huckabee wants to legislate that bathrooms are to be separate sex by law, then fuck him too.

              1. And no one else has been talking much about property rights either. They’ve been talking about who can listen to them pee, aside from Eddie and John.

                1. Geez, what’s a guy gotta’ do to get some attention around here?

                  @1:35

                  Point 5: It should be up to the owner of the establishment to decide how to structure the bathroom arrangements. If they want unisex, great. If they want men’s, women’s, in-betweener’s, and unspecified, great.

                2. Hey Nikki,

                  It seems to me that most of us reading here today agree on the issue of property rights.

                  If that’s settled – or even if it isn’t – I don’t see the problem with, for example, my being uncomfortable with sharing a restroom with someone I am attracted to simply because I am concerned it might negatively influence her opinion of me. First impressions can be very influential.

                  1. You’re right charles

                    of course Nikki will say that you are just “silly” for feeling that way

    2. Nikki, you can come and have a piss with me any time you like. And the men on here are free to put on dresses and lingerie and do the same. I really don’t care. Others, however, are a bit hard nosed about such things. As long as it is their property, be it a business or home, what the hell business is it of ours? If that means trannys have a hard time finding a bathroom that suits their tastes, well sometimes life is like that. Whatever their inconvenience, it doesn’t override the interests of the people who own the bathrooms.

      1. I am 100% for property rights. But this is like, “the horror, the horror,” and except for you and Eddie, it’s mostly not about property rights.

        1. There’s nothing horrifying about people who, while otherwise they’re doubtless very nice, have confused views about what sex they are.

          The horrifying thing is that businesses are being threatened by laws forcing them to cater to the wishes of deluded people on penalty of fines and damages.

          And that Reason’s reaction to this development is to mock one of the *critics* of these laws.

          1. And that Reason’s reaction to this development is to mock one of the *critics* of these laws.

            In the last couple of years we’ve seen proposals to mandate trans-friendly bathrooms in private institutions, to ban them, and to either allow or not allow them in institutions the government owns. Huckabee invoked a fourth group of proposals that does not actually exist (regulations on what you’re allowed to be offended by), and then moved on to discussing the schools.

            1. As Michael Vick might say, I don’t have a dog in this fight, because I’m not a Huckabee supporter nor will I defend his awkward phrasing.

              However, with all due respect, the remarks you quoted (or are quoted in the article you linked to) seem to have a more or less clear meaning when you allow for his distinct rhetorical style.

              His bottom line is “That there is something inherently wrong about forcing little children to be a part of this social experiment.” His reference to being offended, in this context, means “your complaints will be legally useless because the law forces your 7-yo daughter to share a bathroom with a man.”

              He’s criticizing laws for trans-friendly bathrooms. I don’t see him saying the law should forbid them.

              1. It’s not “awkward phrasing.” The whole point of what he said was to claim that trans people are not really trans.

                1. They’re not.

                  They’re people who have had elaborate plastic surgery to simulate the appearance of the cissex they feel they should have been born.

                  ‘Simulate’ having different levels of completion, with some going all the way while others only go partially.

                  But it is just that, a simulation. It is an elaborate costume that looks like the real thing from the proper distance, but doesn’t function or feel like the real thing.

                  I’m all for varleyesque bodymorphing, but we aren’t anywhere near that yet.

                  1. to simulate the appearance of the cissex they feel they should have been born

                    You clearly have no idea what “cis” means.

                    1. “Cisgender and cissexual (often abbreviated to simply cis) describe related types of gender identity where individuals’ experiences of their own gender match the sex they were assigned at birth”

                      so they want to simulate the appearance of the sex they feel they should have been assigned at birth–said sex often being referred to at the ‘cissex’.

                      Funny how you focus on a tiny bit of semantics.

                      And ignore the substance of what I said.

              2. I don’t see him saying the law should forbid them.

                He’s not said it here, but I’m not so sure. That sounds like the ONLY way to ‘protect’ the 7 year old girl from sharing the bathroom with a man. So long as establishments are free to allow transgender bathroom policies, the law is forcing the poor little girl to share a bathroom with a dude. The girl/her guardians have no legal recourse to whatever trauma Huckabee imagines she will suffer.

                1. I don’t know what Huckabee thinks about banning trans-friendly bathrooms in private businesses. If I did a Google search (which I won’t do now) and I find that he supports such laws, then I’d be against him to that extent. And I’d apologize to you for being skeptical.

                  Like I said, I have no particular reason to support either Huckabee or his awkward rhetoric.

              3. I don’t see him saying the law should forbid them.

                He didn’t, nor did I say he did. But as I noted in the post, we’ve seen proposals for bans as well as mandates, as often happens in these culture-war fights. I of course am opposed to either one.

                I think Huckabee’s focus?or at least the focus of the shower joke?is policies for the schools, which are in a different category altogether, since they’re government property.

                1. I see how he may have confined himself to discussing public schools – which I agree with him are not a suitable venue for social experiments on children.

                  His objections seemed wider than just schools, but I’d have to listen to the whole video to find out, and I’m not doing that now. I had assumed he was critical of the protected-status-for-trans-people laws being put forward, as he says, in various cities – these laws are not confined to schools.

                  Huckabee at least *claims* to support school choice (though he may have changed his mind on the point). But if he’s sincere, there’s a way for trans-friendly parents to send their kids to a place with trans-friendly bathrooms.

                  http://www.forbes.com/sites/ma…..u-to-know/

          2. Huckabee is not against legislation requiring trans accommodation because he;s pro-property rights.

            Huckabee is against this legislation *solely* because he’s anti-trans.

            In this particular case he aligns with *you* but he soundly deserves mocking for his stance.

          3. Yes, Eddie, it is horrifying that businesses are being threatened by laws about this. But take a look at the thread and see how many people are focused on that, vs. how many people are focused on whatever weird sexual carnival they think is going on in public restrooms.

            1. I don’t think Huckabee mentioned any sexual carnival. He is, in fact, against the government requiring that men be allowed to use the ladies’ room and vice-versa. He finds the prospect appalling. So I suppose his reasoning is impure by H&R standards, since hip people really don’t mind if they and their children share bathrooms with people of the opposite sex. And since we should all be hip people and Huckabee isn’t, he obviously holds his views for the wrong reason.

              Of course, if we apply the same reasoning to dope, I’m sure Reason could run article after article mocking the ridiculous comments of progs who want to legalize marijuana, but Reason’s articles focus on the merits of the issue, not on mocking the ickiness of their allies.

              1. Huckabee wanted to look at naked women. He thinks that’s all trans people are–liars trying to look at naked people who are sexually interesting to him.

                I don’t give a shit who is comfortable or uncomfortable. He clearly thinks trans people are lying. That’s not about discomfort.

                1. I can’t read his mind, but of course the laws he’s criticizing are open to abuse – imagine a law allowing people who *identify* as black to apply for affirmative-action benefits. That would include lots of black people, but probably some white people seeking the benefits, too.

                  1. That’s how affirmative action works already though.

                    1. So it’s open to abuse. But that doesn’t mean everyone who claims affirmative action benefits is white.

        2. For some people it is the horror. Some people,are really bothered by walking into a bathroom with a guy in a dress or having their wife or daughter have to do so. Just because you don’t share their horror, doesn’t give you the right to say they are wrong or bad people for feeling that way. Don’t they have a right to feel how they do? The tranny has a right to wear the dress, why don’t they have a right to be appalled by it?

          1. Some people have a right to have their feelings catered to, other people should just shut up and deal.

            The key is – whom do progs identify with?

            1. Some people have a right to have their feelings catered to, other people should just shut up and deal.

              The proggy double standard in a nutshell. Principles need not apply.

          2. Just because you don’t share their horror, doesn’t give you the right to say they are wrong or bad people for feeling that way

            Why not? I’d absolutely declare someone a bad person if they expressed horror and indignation at the thought of encountering a black person in the restroom.

            1. Sure you can I suppose. I just think doing so makes you an intolerant asshole. If you like them, good for you. But what gives you the right to demand everyone else share your tastes?

              1. So the segregationist who doesn’t regard blacks as fully human isn’t a bad person? And I’m an asshole for wanting to shame him for that?

                I’d love it if all the socialists and progressives in the world stopped believing stupid shit and became libertarian. Is that also a bigoted, asshole position, especially since everyone here mocks them for their often sincere beliefs?

                1. Except that being a tranny isn’t the same as being black. Come on Geoff, you are smarter than that. You disappoint me. You could make that same sorry ass argument about any objection to anyone.

                  “I have a right to object to people who torture puppies” So the segregationist who doesn’t regard blacks as fully human isn’t a bad person?

                  “I think people who fuck their moms are appalling” So the segregationist who doesn’t regard blacks as fully human isn’t a bad person?

                  “I don’t think people who are convicted thieves should be allowed to work at banks”. So the segregationist who doesn’t regard blacks as fully human isn’t a bad person?

                  That argument is the most pathetic bit of mawkish question begging there is.

                  1. So you think transgender people are more like torturers, thieves, and motherfuckers than they are like black people.

                    1. Niki,

                      You are being a stupid as Geoff. But I know you are smarter than that. You are just being dishonest and you know it. The point of the analogy is not that trannies are like dog killers. The point is that Geoff’s sorry ass analogy to segregation can be applied to any objection to someone no matter how well grounded.

                      You are too smart not to understand that. So stop pretending you don’t.

                    2. The point of your analogy is that you don’t believe trans people are “born that way,” and that being trans is a lifestyle choice rather than an immutable characteristic. I disagree.

                    3. John, objecting to trans people in a restroom is as irrational as objecting to black people in the same restroom as whites. Both are the result of social pressures that ultimately stem from bigotry since Christians and other faiths have long held that gays and trans people are perversions of God’s plan for humanity.

                      Trans people are not black people (well, unless they happen to be that too) but they certainly regard their gender identity as being as immutable and ingrained as a black person’s skin color.

                      I don’t expect you to agree with this, but why shouldn’t it make trans persons uncomfortable when people like Huckabee clearly regard them as either mentally deranged or liars? That kind of thinking is more dangerous to liberty than unisex bathrooms or whatever because it’s obvious where that leads to once the bigoted get the power of government force.

                    4. I don’t expect you to agree with this, but why shouldn’t it make trans persons uncomfortable when people like Huckabee clearly regard them as either mentally deranged or liars?

                      Shouldn’t people like Huckabee be uncomfortable when people like you call them bigots? You make just as bad of accusations against Huckabe as he does against Trannies.

                      The bottom line is no one owes you acceptance. If you think trannies are great, that is your right. If other people think they are deviants, that is their right too. It is hardly clear that people who are convinced they are the opposite gender are not suffering from a form of mental illness. The guy who invented the sex change operation stopped doing them because after decades of doing them he concluded that they didn’t make the people who got them any better off and there was no such thing as having a different gender than your body. Was that guy just an evil Christian bigot?

                      Think about what you are saying. You are telling me that only an evil bigot with insane fears and immoral and intolerant views could hold the opinion that someone who wakes up one day and decides they are rreally the opposite gender is suffering from some kind of deep and serious mental disorder. Really?

                  2. Why aren’t they like blacks?

                2. Seriously Geoff, that is bo level stupid. Why do otherwise smart people allow this topic to make them stupid?

                  1. Why do otherwise smart people allow this topic to make them stupid?

                    Jhooon said without a hint of irony.

                    1. Yes Jesse, I understand that everyone must love trannies and gays. I get it that sodomy and cross dressing are the pinnacle of human achievement. I will freely admit by virtue of you being gay you are superior to everyone except maybe a devout Muslim.

                      I am totally with the modern way of thinking. I just have this wierd thing about defending the rights of those poor souls who can’t seem to understand your superiority.

                    2. Oh good, I’m glad you got my meaning instead of hoisting a straw man and giving it a few frail kicks.

                      It’d be so unfortunate if you just flailed around lamely in a thread.

                    3. If i were not married, I would come out and suck your cock myself Jesse, just to show you how superior you are. Don’t let it ever be said, I wouldn’t give you the respect you deserve.

                    4. I know, this thread has been cracking me up all day!

          3. They have a right to feel however they want to, and I have a right to mock those fears as incredibly silly.

            1. What is silly about a woman not wanting to shower next to a guy? Seriously. It wouldn’t bother some people but I don’t see how you can say it is silly for it to bother someone.

              Moreover, why does what the person next to you thinks they are matter at all? If you and I use the same public bathroom, does my internal dialog about my self image make any difference to you? I am still a guy. It seems to me that you are saying that any gender segregation is silly. We have had gender separate bathrooms for a very long time. Why now has the entire concept become “silly”? Maybe it is a concept you don’t like. But I don’t see how you can call the people who support it silly or crazy considering the entire rest of t he world feels exactly the same way.

              1. Why now has the entire concept become “silly”?

                Because, as I said, they are afraid of…what? A potential sex object hearing them poop? That is the only thing anyone has actually claimed in this thread. And yes, it is silly.

                1. So you are telling me Nikki that if I had a 12 year old daughter, if I had a problem with some guy in a dress going into the bathroom with her, I would just be silly? What the hell, why don’t we just all go naked and fuck each other in public, kids and all. What is there to be ashamed of?

                  Some people are creeped out by trannies, just like some people are creeped out by emos or tattooed biker dudes. That is how life and people are. Except that now no one can ever be creeped out by trannies now. Trannies are like Muslims and gays. They are fucking special. That guy next you washing his hands in a dress with a hard on 8 inches long is totally fucking normal. And if you think otherwise, you are just a bigot.

                  1. if I had a 12 year old daughter, if I had a problem with some guy in a dress going into the bathroom with her, I would just be silly?

                    Yes, absolutely.

                    Being creeped out by most things is pretty fucking silly.

                    And thinking that transgender women have an eight-inch erection is…more than silly.

                    1. Sure it is all silly Niki. Tell you what, let me come to Chicago sometime and we can shower together. I won’t touch you or do anything sexual. We can just shower together. What would be the problem?

                    2. It’s not a gotcha if I really don’t think there is any difference between showering with a strange woman vs. with a strange man.

                    3. No Niki it is not. But you miss the point. Even if you don’t have a problem with showering with anyone, how can you call someone who does silly? You are saying more than just “I am not bothered by this”. You are saying anyone who is bothered is silly and ignorant. And that is absurd.

                    4. John, are you claiming it is not standard to say, “Some people are bothered that is a complete non-issue to me, therefore I find that silly”?

                    5. yes Nicki I am. I am not bothered by spiders. But I don’t think people who are are silly. Just because i don’t share a fear or an opinion doesn’t mean I necessarily consider anyone who does silly.

                    6. There are a lot of things other people have problems with that I am 100% willing to mock. For example, radical Muslims who are bothered by drawings of Mohammed. They are silly. Dangerous too, maybe, but also silly.

                    7. Nikki, Jhooon has a point, peeing in an enclosed stall and washing hands at a sink next to you are IDENTICAL to naked air-humping you in a shower with the intent of making you uncomfortable to prove a point made on the internet.

                      Don’t be daft girl.

                    8. So Jesse,

                      Do you think Trannies should not be allowed to use the women’s locker rooms at public gyms? Why not? And if they can, then how is it any different than bathrooms?

                    9. Are women’s locker rooms different then men’s? Because in every gym bathroom in the US I’ve been in has had curtains around the shower stalls or the showers have been separated by privacy glass or tile dividers. Even explicitly gay bathhouses have had private shower and changing areas available. East Asian saunas where everyone’s notoriously naked all the time and it’s considered impolite to hit the hot tubs with a bathing suit on, have had private shower and changing facilities.

                      If someone is being a creeper they should be tossed out by management FOR BEING A CREEPER, but I don’t see how being trans and in a bathroom makes you definitionally a creeper.

                    10. Because in every gym bathroom in the US I’ve been in has had curtains around the shower stalls or the showers have been separated by privacy glass or tile dividers.

                      My gym at the Y has no such thing. And plenty of other gyms do not and there is no requirement for such. In my gym at the Y, should trans men be allowed to use the women’s shower? If not, why not? And I don’t mean them being creepy. I mean them using it. Should they be allowed to? And is any woman who doesn’t like it just an evil silly prudish Christian?

                    11. Transmen would be using the men’s shower, John.

                      Look, I think American hangups about nudity are weird. I don’t think people who have hangups about nudity are evil/immoral, but I do think a lot of it is tied up, subconsciously even, in the idea that men are inherent rapists. If a radfem came on here saying “By Jove, we need sex-segregated movie theaters to protect women from (maybe, possibly!) being fondled in the dark by men who are inherently rapey because they’re men!” I think you would (rightly) scoff at that even if you could conjure scenarios where women being fondled in a dark theater could be a thing.

                      By the logic of the argument you’ve made in this thread society is held to the strictest version of the heckler’s veto, which I think in any other scenario, you’d decry.

            2. That doesn’t justify my feelings of victimhood. Argument rejected!

    3. I don’t know. I think the sexual harassment argument (that women or men could use the interchangeable bathroom as a setting for their scenario, not that there will be an increase in creepy pervy behavior) isn’t so outlandish.

  29. And, there are precisely zero comments about the fact that Huckabee thinks transgender people are…you know, lying for sex.

    1. I think what he said is that such a policy would be open to abuse…unless trans people must get on a special registry and prove their status before trying to use the bathroom.

      1. “Now I wish that someone told me that when I was in high school that I could have felt like a woman when it came time to take showers in PE,” said Huckabee. “I’m pretty sure that I would have found my feminine side and said, ‘Coach, I think I’d rather shower with the girls today.’ You’re laughing because it sounds so ridiculous, doesn’t it?”

        As usual, projection explains everything. Here, Huckabee has admitted to being a liar and a pervert, and his stance on this issue is premised on the notion that everyone else must be, as well.

        1. It’s perverted for a high-school boy to want to be in the girls’ locker room?

          Anyway, I’m not going to defend Huckabee or the way he phrases his points.

          The bottom line is that, faced with certain bad and oppressive laws, Reason thinks the priority is to mock one of the law’s critics.

          1. When that critic is doing more to hurt the cause of opposing those laws yes. Conservatives are shitty allies even when they agree with us.

            1. I would think that dope-smoking OWSers would be shitty allies for you, too.

              1. Yes! Another amazing insight from the area closet Catholic Theocrat!

                1. Aren’t you the infanticide guy?

    2. To be fair – they are.

      But then so is everyone else.

    3. Maybe some of us just don’t really give a shit what Huckabee says about anything and just want to talk about bathrooms.

    4. Transies are notoriously duplicitous.

      We had a huge controversy last year about letting boys who identify as girls play on girls high school teams.

      Shower problems ran a distant second to the idea that marginal boys would join the girls teams because they couldn’t make the cut on the boys teams.

      http://www.startribune.com/dec…..284783781/

      1. I can see that as a legitimate point of contention.

    5. Not even close.

      He’s saying that straight boys will lie about being transgendered to get to shower with the girls.

  30. I welcome everyone to listen to me while I’m on the shitter. I guarantee you will have a terrible time.

    1. Some things can’t be unseen or unheard.

    2. Is it because you can’t carry a tune? Or maybe your range sucks (can’t hit the high notes)?

      Don’t knock yourself. It doesn’t have to be great. It just has to have a beat and you can dance to it.

    3. meh Rock Hudson might not have.

    4. As someone who has bugged NutraSweet’s home in the process of stalking him, I have to contradict this statement. His grunts, squeals, and howls of pain when shitting are surprisingly compelling. And it goes on for so long…SO LONG…SO LONG…

      1. It’s like giving birth to a shoggoth.

        1. Dude, Dr Agammamon prescribes more fiber in your diet.

          1. I eat 200 pounds of bran every 12 hours.

            1. 200 lbs of Frosted Sugar Flakes and Fruity Pebbles aren’t going to help much.

              1. Sounds like someone needs some Super Colon Blow.

            2. I feel terrible for laughing at this, Epi’s comment and the shoggoth remark.

  31. Now, let me get this straight- women do not undress completely in plain view, in the common area of the ladies’ room and gyrate in a sexually provocative manner prior to relieving themselves? No pillow fights?
    Another boyhood fantasy blown to smithereens.

    1. The do undress and shower in gym locker rooms and such. If trannys have the right to use the bathroom of their choice, they certainly have a right to use the gym locker room and shower of their choice. Have we really gotten to the point that a woman who doesn’t want to shower next to a strange man can’t object to doing so without being called a bigot and businesses cannot cater to her preferences if they choose?

      1. I don’t know man, it appears to me that we really have gotten to that point.
        What i find most bizarre is the biggest push for unisex bathrooms and such is from colleges, which is also the site of the so called “campus rape epidemic”.

        So essentially for libtards, guys in college just rape like crazy and its an “epidemic”…… but yet they are letting these same guys share bathrooms and shower rooms with college girls…..

        1. When you think about it, the solution to the college “rape epidemic” is just to make all of the men in college start wearing women’s clothes and claiming to be women. That would solve the entire thing, right?

          1. I’m not so sure about that John. If two students get drunk together and have regrettable sex, but neither presents as a man, how do you know who’s fault it was and who was the rapist?

            1. There is no such thing as lesbian rape, just like there is no such thing as lesbian domestic violence.

  32. Oh for fuck’s sake, this isn’t that difficult: private businesses shouldn’t have to accommodate anyone they don’t want to. Period. Full stop.

    And Mike Huckabee is a transphobic and homophobic bigot that’s a boil on the ass of society. He should be roundly and merciless mocked whenever he opens his fat mouth to say shit like this.

    1. Dude, if you simplify these things down like that Reason will lose page hits. Stop it.

      1. Think of how few comments on this page there would be if they had done that.

        1. I dunno – Pope J, SF, Epi and company could keep ’em rolling…

      2. I’m just amazed that we’re just letting the fact slide that Huckabee gets more shirty about men cutting off their dicks than about serial pedophilia.

        1. Look, Duggar is a close personal friend and Huckabee knows, in his heart of hearts, that Jesus forgives him and so should we.

          Trannies, however, are the scum hanging around at the bus station who offer to blow you for 20 bucks and you don’t find out they’re actually a man until its too late.

          1. Barry: “You’re not one of those silly men who dresses up like a woman, are you?”

            Prostitute: “No, baby, i’m all wom-”

            Barry: [peels out]

        2. Look, he felt bad, he had his head shaved to shame him, there was forgiveness in front of the church and it’s all dandy now. Forgiven incestuous serial child abuse is totally acceptable, but how can you forgive theoretical child abuse that probably won’t actually materialize before it happens? So the correct answer is to demonize it before it gets forgiven and the family hugs it out.

          I’ll find my way out of this logic maze eventually…some day.

  33. The appeal the Huck seems to be making is the same kind of bullshit that nauseates me about Progs =

    – the idea that we need Government to impose the “correct” social world

    I don’t give a fuck if there are “tranny bathrooms” in some places. I don’t care if a business decides that the toilets are Biological Gender only. Either way, just keep the fucking government out of it.

    This is, of course, the least-popular view. “unrealistic” as the others say.

    1. I don’t care either. The problem is I don’t trust the progs, who make up all of the tranny activists, to leave it at that. Huckabee is right to worry the government is going to come in and demand businesses cater to trannies and the prog mob is going to do everything they can to bully and coerce any business who doesn’t.

      You can’t ever just agree to disagree or leave each other alone with Progs. That is not what they do.

      1. That’s not what Huckabee is bitching about. He’s too dumb to make that simple point.

  34. I swim at the Rose Bowl Aquatic Center two or three times a month. This is LiberalLand USA. “ALL CHILDREN OVER THREE SHALL ACCOMPANIED BY AN ADULT IN THE LOCKER ROOM”. Shake your head and read that again. Liberals are confused about many things but they do understand the difference between pedophilia and pederasty. The locker room is not a restroom (unless you are in the habit of taking all your clothes before relieving yourself). Implicit in the above sign is that there are two locker rooms: one for men, and one for women. The Rose Bowl team might not want deal with unwieldy cost of doing it another way.

    1. Do people actually allow children under three to come by *without* an adult?

      That just seems a weird cutoff – I just don’t imagine that 2-3 year olds would be running around without their parents there anyway.

    2. You’re not grokking the sign. A two or three year-old will take off and run wherever he pleases. The Rose Bowl cannot enforce that, as a practical matter. Like I wrote, shake your and read it again.

      1. Well, if I ever have to abandon an infant, I now know where to do it.

        1. You’re still an idiot about half the time.

          1. Considering that you’re an idiot all of the time, your psychometric estimations of others lack a certain, how shall we say, “external validity”.

      2. Yeah, but if the 2 year old runs off into the locker room there’s likely to be an adult tagging along right behind them.

        5, 6, 7 year olds would be (to me, the guy with no kids) around the age that they’re allowed to run completely wild in the facility without the parent’s giving a damn.

        1. Yeah, but if the 2 year old runs off into the locker room there’s likely to be an adult tagging along right behind them.

          That’s a sound bit of reasoning if you only have one 2 year old on your hands. It turns out that some parents have a more than one. Even one 2 year old girl, with helicopter parents, will randomly run into the men’s locker room.

  35. A whole lot of people are upset at the idea that they might encounter a tranny. Maybe some trigger warnings would help? Safe spaces?

    1. I like that idea. If a feminist needs a trigger warning before encountering Christina Hoff Sommers or having to read Ovid, I think hetero normals should have the right to demand trigger warnings before encountering trannies. Why can’t breeders have the safe spaces they need?

    2. There were no trigger warnings in Thailand, and I still managed to make 5 years there without having a dude suck my dick.

      If I can do it, so can you.

      1. It’s not a dude sucking your dick if your balls don’t touch, dude. Or something like that.

        1. That is an ab initio premise of all my statements.

        2. It is not sexual Warty, if you don’t get a hard on while doing it. Didn’t you know that?

          1. Or, failing that, for god’s sake don’t smile.

            1. And spit, don’t swallow. Swallowing is totally gay.

      2. This is Warty we’re talking about….

    3. I’m a tad more “concerned” about meeting you in a dark alley.

    4. Perhaps we can have them wear some kind of badge?

  36. Has anybody brought up the woman at Planet Fitness(?) who bitched about a sexually nebulous individual using the ladies’ locker room?
    They basically told her, to the raucous accolades of the transgenger twittermobz, to fuck off if she didn’t like it.
    Private property disclaimers notwithstanding, this is the sort of thing which should be made unequivocally plain up front.

    1. I agree. As long as the business makes it plain upfront, then let people make their own decisions. That woman had a legitimate bitch because no one told her when she signed her contract that they were going to let trannies in the women’s locker room. Had they been upfront, then no problem. If it bothered her, she should go somewhere else.

      1. That woman had a legitimate bitch because no one told her when she signed her contract that they were going to let trannies in the women’s locker room.

        No one told me when I signed up for my gym membership that mothers would be bringing their irksome (male) spawn in there with them. I don’t like it, but I wouldn’t consider it a legitimate bitch–just as I wouldn’t consider the woman’s complaint about a tranny a legitimate bitch. They can’t possibly put every single thing that might happen ever in a contract, and no one is going to read it if they do.

        1. I don’t know why your bitch wouldn’t be. The only reason it wouldn’t is if that is standard enough practice in the industry that you are presumed to know it. I honestly don’t know if it is. But if it isn’t, then you have a bitch.

          As for this woman, at this point I guess everyone has to assume that trannies are now sacred and every gym contract includes them going to the women’s locker room unless otherwise stated. But at the time, I think she did. Just because she is one of those lower order humans who don’t understand the innate superiority of trannies, shouldn’t mean she loses her contract rights.

          1. standard enough practice in the industry that you are presumed to know it.

            Is it not standard practice for women to use women’s locker rooms? So the woman’s gender was a little ambiguous–she’s still a woman.

            1. Is it standard for them to bring their male kids with them? I don’t know to be honest. But I don’t think so. I think you have a legit complaint.

              1. In my experience, it’s common for mothers to bring in their male kids to locker rooms. But there’s an unspoken cutoff point (7 or 8, I’d say) for when they should start using the men’s room on their own. Unfortunately, you get the occasional crazy attachment-style mom who thinks her little preteen angels need to accompany her everywhere.

                1. and I wouldn’t be surprised if some gyms have rules regarding it

        2. I was in a restroom on the New York State thruway recently minding my own business and using a urinal. In walked a man with a young, female child. He positioned the child against the wall directly behind me, said “stay there!” and went into a stall.

          I would have preferred that the girl was not there. I would have strongly preferred she was not there. I was petrified she would somehow catch a chance of the Little Juggler and I would be off to the camps.

          However, I understood what the guy was doing (he should have just locked her in one of the stalls, but I guess that is weird, too).

  37. Huckabee just demonstrates that a lot of self-described “Christians” can be just as nasty and compassionless as they are ignorant.

    The fact is–horror of horrors!–you have no way to be certain that the person next to you in the bathroom is turned on by your being there. You also have no way of knowing whether they are disguised to be the proper gender for that restroom! We’re not about to post guards at every restroom in America to search everyone coming in and run them through tests to make sure they aren’t attracted to anyone else in the bathroom, so you just have to live with knowing you can’t be sure.

    But so long as everyone in the bathroom observes proper decorum and leaves one another alone, this shouldn’t be a problem. And I hope (for the kid’s sake) Huckabee never has a child or grandchild with gender identity or sexual orientation issues, as they’re sure to have an insensitive ear in the family patriarch.

    1. That is nice you think it “shouldn’t be a problem”. And if you own the bathroom, you live by that. If you don’t, then you have no right to tell the person who does what should and should not be a problem. If I own a business and some guy in a dress goes into the women’s bathroom and I kick out of my store, it is a problem because I say it is. If you don’t like it, don’t come to my business.

      1. Burn that strawman. Just because he never made that argument doesn’t mean you shouldn’t argue against it!

      2. I missed the part where I told you how you should run your business.

    2. Brando, you changed my mind a bit that yes, you have no way of telling what someone is thinking or cleverly dressed as but is anyone in America willing to at lease discuss whether transgender is really a scientific transition?

      They are still just a tranny and even when they cut their junk off, they are not scientifically a women. You are either male or female or hermo. Do hermo’s have female reproductive organs?
      Confusion does not make bruce jenner a chick and I don’t know why there is a difference between a tranny and a transgender. A country that was not full of total pansies used to be OK with a little bit of ridicule for the freakshows. It is highly strange and free speech should be perfectly ok with that assertion. If my kid goes that route, I will have to deal with it but they will know that they are freaks.

      I see nothing wrong with maintaining that there is a such a thing as a female or a male and there is no possible scientific biological anatomical middleman other than hermo. You can’t will yourself to be an elephant if you have big ears because you could always hear well. Bruce Jenner may feel efeminent but he is a man because he does not have a uterus.

      1. This has nothing to do with Jenner’s outward identity.

      2. Exactly that. You are what your genes say you are. To claim otherwise is a form of insanity.

      3. They are still just a tranny and even when they cut their junk off, they are not scientifically a women.

        Our brains are part of our biology. Sometimes our brains work differently than what you would expect, whether because of genetic, epigenetic, or environmental factors. Just because we don’t understand the root causes of gender dysmorphia yet doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Hell we don’t even know what makes people homosexual.

        Currently we don’t have pill or gene treatment that will fix it (if they even want to). So the current treatment is therapy, hormones, and even surgery (not all trans do the surgery or even hormone part).

        There are people with body dysmorphia who think for example that the shouldn’t have their limb, and it’s ingrained in their brains. Some of these people end up having an amputation with the support of a doctor because it is the best treatment they currently have available. Yet nobody goes around treating them like they are a bunch of sickos.

        1. “Yet nobody goes around treating them like they are a bunch of sickos.”

          No, they go around treating them like a bunch of people with serious mental health issues who voluntarily had a limb amputated.

          If you met someone with no arm, and they told you they had it voluntarily removed because they wanted to not have an arm, you would assume that they are not all there in the head and treat them like someone with a mental issue. Why is it different for a guy who has his penis cut off because he thinks he is a woman?

          1. If they chopped off their arm, their doctor recommended/agreed with it, and they are much happier as a result then no I wouldn’t think they have a mental issue anymore.

            1. If you honestly cannot come to the logical conclusion that sometime who actively lowers their survival chances by removing limbs has mental problems, then you should rethink your argument.

              Secondarily, you keep reiterating “with doctor’s support” as if that’s meaningful.

              And lastly, if it is a mental illness, then the thought process is irrational, so whether the ill individual feels better is also inconsequential.

              Disclaimer: if you don’t like your arm and can find an “expert” willing to support your irrational wish to permanently disfigure and disable yourself, I would support no laws stopping you from doing so.

              I will not however take my willingness to care less what others do to their own bodies as reason to ignore the mental illness existing in people who take this route.

        2. Once the herd starts making up new terms for tranny like “body dysmorphia” then you know it is a bullshit topic.

          Sorry but it is not hard to see where these ridiculous discussions are going. It is simply laying the tracks for the next offensive speech for the gestapo to come ruin you with.

  38. NSFW

    Obligatory.

    I’m ashamed of youz guyz. Must I do everything around here?

    1. Jeez dude, if you’re going to do that you may as well link to some euro porn.

      Side note – many bathrooms in europeland are not gender segregated. Not because of any prog-pushing either.

      Its simply a communal washroom (sinks and mirrors) that lead to toilet stalls.

      1. Didn’t President Roslin shit with Baltar on BSG?

        1. Never in my life have I ever seen so much as one episode of that crappy soap opera.

      2. That is because they are poor and the unwashed masses go berserk every hundred years or so and start sticking each other in ovens. Just saying.

        1. Wait. Bathrooms in Europe are structured differently because…HITLER?

          Seriously?

          Like, seriously-seriously, not joking-seriously?

          1. I think it was a general cultural statement.

            If it’s not post war and over two stories tall, the pipes are run on the outside to the single bathroom.

            If you’re lucky hot and cold dispense to the same fixture.

            1. No, I get he was being more general than WWII, but I find the implication that their bathrooms are unisex because they’re poor is weird when Europeans have overlapping but different cultural values. I don’t think that sex-segregated bathrooms are a necessary terminus for wealthy societies.

              I wasn’t paying a lot of attention to bathrooms the last time I was in Europe, but I seem to recall some of the older ones being divided and some of the newer ones being unisex. European bathrooms do seem to have much more private stall dividers than American bathrooms, which may make users more comfortable with being in the same broader area as people of the opposite sex.

              1. I’ve seen all sorts of things there. Squat toilets were common.

                And I think it has far more to do with how far American cultural influence had reached than with the wealth of any particular area.

                At the time (90’s) older public facilities would have squat toilets (homes had sit-down) and newer stuff had sit-down. You could even find a decent percentage of hotels that still offered rooms without a private bathroom – it was down the hall and shared. This is something that went extinct in the US probably before the 60’s.

              2. Uh… I don’t think it’s *necessary*.

                My anecdote; bathing daily seems to be a very Western, even American, attitude. Large parts of Europe, not feeling the need to bath as regularly, deprioritize bathrooms accordingly. Plenty even well below reasonable levels of hygiene. This attitude carries through even into affluent communities.

                I’ve stayed in several relatively contemporary dwellings throughout Europe in modestly well-to-do/touristy neighborhoods and been forced to use restrooms that were very Escher-esque.

                Not that this sort of thing doesn’t exist in the U.S., but you’d have to seek it out to find it in tourist-based communities and even in more impoverished non-US tourist locales, they seem to have adopted the Western/American ethos with more meager means rather than converting old coat closets and butler’s pantries into “full” baths.

                1. I wasn’t saying you thought it was necessary. I thought John’s comment was funny because he seemed to be implying there’d be American style bathrooms in Europe were they not so prone to World Wars.

                  Nothing makes me happier than showering when I get back to the States. I’ve had to get creative to wash my feet in coffin-sized showers in Europe more than once. I spent a month in Italy and got to my then-boyfriend’s place in Germany to find a full-sized shower and was happier to see that than I was to see him.

                  1. My comment was meant to be funny Jesse. It was meant as a joke. I am glad you got it. The Europeans have different sensibilities about this stuff. And frankly I think they are right. But I refuse to call Americans evil and wrong or see any reason to force them to change.

      3. There aren’t as many hungry lawyers in euroland either.

        OT, but why can’t I pay a lawyer $200/hr , here in LA, just to ferret something out for me? If there isn’t $100k on the table, or regular DUI complaint, they won’t touch it.

  39. Only 320 comments? I am disappointed, people.

  40. Not one comment about how with “social justice” we get to spread victimhood around evenly?

    1. *slams head on table*

      That’s *our* table smarty-pants. Chip in to buy me another.

  41. This thread delivers.

  42. If all the bathrooms are unisex, will they all have condom *and* tampon dispensers or is that an insult to the varying degrees of transgendered peoples? Or would not having them be an insult to the illusion that they really aren’t whatever sex/gender they aspire to?

    1. We already have condom dispensers in women’s restrooms. Does the possibility of seeing a tampon dispenser worry you?

      1. Is it a public accommodation/ACA-mandated dispenser put up to assuage a transgendered individual’s fears of any and all prejudices?

      2. I’m no expert, Agammamon, but men and women use a condom together. I don’t think the same can be said for tampons.

  43. What I’ve learned from the Jenner issue is that conservatives are fucking stupid and as bad with science as progs. “It’s bad because biological reality/culture of death/other buzzword I don’t understand or argument that I didn’t think through! ICKY”. -conservative angst distilled

    I am tired of going through this bullshit every time a social advance is made. Letting homos marry and serve in the military was supposed to Ruin Everything, it didn’t. The reason conservatives don’t make a simple argument against government oppression is because they are too invested in disliking icky things. This makes them shitty allies and a liability in the fight for freedom.

    1. Since when is it “science” to think that chromosomes do not determine your sex? And show me one bit of scientific evidence supporting the concept that someone can be a “woman in a man’s body” or even explain what the fuck that even means in a cogent way?

      Yes Cytoxic, you have sufficiently signaled how great and socially acceptable your views are. But do me a favor and leave science the fuck out of it.

      1. Sex and gender are not the same thing.

        1. Then show me any scientific evidence there is any such thing as “gender”. What is “gender” if not sex? I never seen a single piece of science that explained much less proved the concept of “gender” is even real or anything beyond a made up concept.

          Do animals have a gender in addition to their sex? If not, why do humans and what is the natural explanation for them having it? And more importantly, what the hell is it and what purpose does it serve?

          1. Gender: it’s what separates us from the animals.

            1. Says who? What science is there that backs that contention up?

              1. Lighten up, Francis.

                It was a joke.

                1. My apologies Riven. Good joke. Sorry I missed it.

                  1. Next time, John. Next time.

          2. Human have a soul and are xcreated in the image of God.

        2. I was raised Christian, I get it; your body is one sex and your soul has a gender.

          1. #IFLS!

          2. That is funny. I want to hear Cytoxic, one of the silliest and most ignorant atheists on here tell us about the gender of one’s soul.

            And sorry but while I will admit the possibility or even likelihood of a soul, I see no evidence for our souls having any particular gender.

        3. Sex and gender are not the same thing.

          All things must end, Western Civilization included. A few hundred years of subsistence farming and animal husbandry will do us good. Embrace it.

    2. I am tired of going through this bullshit every time a social advance is made.

      That’s where you are missing the point.

      We aren’t really complaining about “social advances”. Joking about, yes. Criticizing, sure. Mocking, always. But not complaining about, as in, nobody should do this ever, because ick.

      What we are complaining about is legal mandates to comply with the “social advance” du jour. Or else.

    3. Jenner IS a conservative.

      1. Jenner is NOT a social conservative. Economic conservative maybe.

        People who think that you have to be either socially AND economically conservative or both socially and economically liberal are ignoramuses.

        1. Jenner is NOT a social conservative.

          As if social liberalism doesn’t have any rational inconsistencies that could come home to roost;

          “Bruce Jenner: I Am A Woman, A Christian And A Republican.”

          “I’ve always been more on the conservative side.” Jenner said.

          I hope you can forgive some plain old conservative for being too busy, lazy, or just fiscally conservative to traipse through whatever byzantine definition you can contort ‘social liberal/fiscal conservative’ to fit.

          Better ignorant than stupid.

  44. Wow. 400 comments for this?

    1. 401!

    2. Duh. It has everything we love.

      — Let’s talk about stuff reltaed to sex!
      — Let’s mock socons!
      — Let’s mock SJWs!
      — Let’s all remember how it used to be when the world was reasonable because we are all old!
      — More about sex!
      — Ooo! And a poster related to an old (and crappy) movie from the 80s! Excellent!

      1. But no Mexicans or deep dish pizza. Or spurious contentions that Lou Reed has passed away.

  45. Oh my god this is embarrassing. I just “got” the Porky’s poster.

    1. The faucet is one inch above the floor, of the person showering has ankles 12 inches long.

  46. Young Mike Huckabee had legs like that??!

  47. At Planet Fitness, a woman was displeased to see a man in the women’s locker room. She complained, and was informed that he was a transgender and entitled to use the room — and they canceled her membership. So this is not just a fantasy, but a reality. And it won’t be long before “dirty old men” start taking advantage of this idiocy. But after all, who is more of an Official Victim Group, the transgendered or women? The former, so tough luck for the latter. For the sake of a tiny minority of confused individuals, their interests have to be sacrificed by people who claim that Republicans are engaging in a “war on women”.

    1. If only we lived in a country where private property rights were respected, this would not be an issue.

    2. I thought those places had 3 bathrooms – men, women, and mixed.

      This is what someone told me, I wouldn’t go into one of those bacteria swamps if you paid me.

    3. Why are they pandering to this hugely insignificant minority?

  48. I’m thinking we may be to the point where social engineering is consuming itself on this front.

    What if (and I’m just spitballing here) someone were to bring a harassment or hostile workplace complaint based on being “forced” to share a bathroom with someone of the opposite sex? Or self-defined gender?

    Harassment is unwelcome conduct that is based on. . . sex . . . . Harassment becomes unlawful where 1) enduring the offensive conduct becomes a condition of continued employment, or 2) the conduct is severe or pervasive enough to create a work environment that a reasonable person would consider intimidating, hostile, or abusive.

    A company mandate that you share bathrooms with the opposite sex (or alternatively gendered) can certainly be unwelcome (note the subjective standard here), and as a company mandate would be a condition of continued employment. Note that the requirement that it be severe, pervasive, etc. is an alternative, not an additional, standard.

    Seems pretty blackletter, to me.

    1. I think someone should try that. the outcome of the case, in my opinion, would unfortunately be based on how liberal the judge or jury is

    2. That is because it is blackletter. And yes, any company that employs a tranny and members of the opposite sex will now be in a sued if you do and sued if you don’t situation. That of course is a feature not a bug in the minds of the people pushing this insanity.

      1. I.e. trial lawyers.

    3. Bathroom trigger warnings.

    4. Employment law is already a minor nightmare. It’s only getting worse in this regard.

    5. I went into this upthead regarding the Rose Bowl Aquatic Center. Some situations are normally resolved by getting nekkid. It may not be practical to erect a teepee for every for shy person who wants to change into his swimming trunks.

      Starting at about the age of 6 humans get sensitive about showing other humans their fruit basket to other humans. There is nothing you can do about this, we’re designed that way. The modest accommodations we have errected over the year try to address this. On this issue I am in the Conservative camp. That is, don’t fix things that aren’t broken. Modify is OK.

      1. We aren’t designed that way, it’s purely cultural. The lower castes had to shit in public, the upper castes got their private chambers. Eventually, everyone got a chamber, just like today everyone gets a trophy. It will come to the point where the upper castes will be PROUD to shit in plain sight of everyone, then everyone will want to do it.

      2. Starting at about the age of 6 humans get sensitive about showing other humans their fruit basket to other humans.

        Bullshit.

        It’s learned.

  49. I find all public bathrooms offensive. And most of the time I’m the only person in there. It’s the evidence of all the other filthy people that went in before me that I find offensive. I don’t see why using a shithouse used by a woman or a tranny is somehow MORE offensive.

  50. Gotta love the “I stubbornly refuse to accept realities that make me uncomfortable” caucus. Hi, John.

    1. Gotta love the “I stubbornly refuse to accept realities that make me uncomfortable” caucus.

      Would that be Jenner’s caucus, Huckabee’s, or the Republican one?

      I don’t wear makeup, have fake boobs, or subscribe to the unfalsifiable scientific notions of gender identity, am I in the reality or refusing reality caucus?

      1. But you subscribe to unfalsifiable nonscientific claims about how the economy works. Perhaps you simply don’t understand all the aspects of this other thing.

  51. Look, maybe this makes me as much of a weirdo as Huckabee (oh, hell no) but I don’t think his position that people will switch showers is that odd. I would have jumped on this chance in High School, as would many of my friends. We were the “progessives” of our school, and about a third of my friends declared non-hetero in the years following HS.

    Would I have pooped in a women’s restroom? Probably, just to mess with folks, because I was THAT kind of asshole in school. But I absolutely would have taken the chance to use the women’s dressing rooms for musicals and so on. And the same college. The idea that horny dudes wouldn’t take this chance is absurd.

    Am I the only one to think that this would happen? We have highschoolers taking naked pictures of eachother and themselves and sending them out or saving them. Why wouldn’t they shower together?

    1. On another note, why isn’t anybody suggesting private bathrooms for all? Have a main area with multiple tiny rooms with shitters. Why is this even an issue? This seems an obvious answer.

      1. This tends to be the case at service stations, but many places with large numbers of customers at once have existing facilities that don’t fit this pattern. Your idea might be good if we were starting from scratch.

        1. Well, yes, obviously we can’t knock down every bathroom and rebuild them. However, as new buildings are built and renovated, this seems a clear solution that nobody is talking about.

    2. I would think high schoolers would not want to take on the burden of being openly transgender in high school just to get a peek at girls.

      1. So the fact that a teenaged transboy presents a butch lesbian face would be a problem?

        Seems like flannel, manly, and getting daily doses of naked girl would be worth it.

        What? They’ve got to present as femme? Homophobe.

        1. Dammit. It’d be transgirl, not transboy*

          *though a transboy could present a butch lesbian face if ee wanted, why not?

        2. Tony’s arguing tautologically;

          “I would think everyone should be equal and then no one would want to switch sides because of whatever disparate burden they have to carry being on some arbitrarily determined side of equal.”

          Showering with the teen lesbian girls! Hell yes. Upgrading *any* criticism against me to hate-criticisms? Bonus!

          Tony, as a gay man, couldn’t imagine high school boys being unrational about ‘taking on a burden’ to see teen girls naked. It’s epic levels of unbelievably stupid, even for Tony.

          1. It’s quite a burden. Sacrifice your perceived masculinity and ability to actually get any real pussy in favor of voyeurism that is one shower boner away from being a discovered sex crime? I guess we’re just leaving aside that this gay panic nonsense is as old as the fat white fucks peddling it for votes.

            As a gay man I remember being terrified of the gym shower. Did I want to go in and ogle? Yes. Was I getting erections as a result of a slight breeze in another state? Yes. I’m not saying your naked bodies are safe from the gay gaze, but you are not the more nervous person in the room.

        3. I’m talking about how trans teenagers kill themselves a lot and are motivated to do so by the people around them. Also not everyone is a creepy pervert like Mike Huckabee.

          1. They kill themselves due to a mental disorder.

            come to think of it, I hear that suicide is more common among bipolars and the general population.

      2. But what you imagine is irrelevant. People are all different.

      3. Then you would be wrong, Tony.

        I was already considered gay by most of my class, including many of my friends, even though I always argued. I was bullied for being queer, even though I wasn’t. (I am a true uber-oppressor — Christian, middle class, white, male, hetero, libertarian, WASP.)

        However, I would certainly take the opportunity to change in the girls dressing room if given half a chance. I really like girls and would have gladly endured a little extra name calling for half a chance to see more skin.

        And anyway, you assume that said guys wouldn’t just respond to classmates with something like “I’m not queer, I just tell the teachers that I am so that I can look at your sister’s tits. I got to watch your girlfriend take off her bra yesterday — you think I do this cuz I like dick? Anyway, I told them that I am a lesbian…”

        Also, remember, HS guys wouldn’t do this “just to get a peek,” They would make whatever claims necessary because most HS guys think that the porn they have watched much of their life is an actual possiblity. Every trip to the shower isn’t “Maybe I’ll see a nipple” but “I’ll bet we have an orgy this time.”

        1. I would have signed *ANYTHING* to get a free pass to shower with the girls.

          I would have worn a t-shirt proclaiming my transgenderness.

        2. Perhaps heterosexual males are even more piggish than I thought. Let’s not give trans people more freedom because heterosexual males might behave like apes. Kind of like the argument for shrouding women in conservative Islam.

          Besides I don’t know if I can trust your argument because I have a policy that everyone who seems gay is gay. Sorry, you’re gay and obviously making a flabby attempt to overcompensate.

          1. I appreciate your forthrightness and the much kinder way that you scream “fag” than the average high schooler. Don’t misunderstand, you are still pointing your finger and screaming “fag,” you are just doing so in an only slightly more civilized manner than most of your neanderthals social circle.

            Please understand, however, that I am not opposed to this measure. I believe in freedom first and foremost among all poltical concerns. I support entierly restrooms that will allow the LGBTQ AND straight communities to feel the most comfortable. I don’t think, at all, that this is a problem. I am just aware of potential OTHER consequences of these laws. I support the freedom of trans people 100%, I just ALSO recognize that, as you said, “hetrosexual males are even more piggish than” most adults realize.

  52. This is never a problem with honey buckets. Nobody stays long enough to get offended.

    1. Eventually your desk chair will double as a chamber pot. Then eventually you will have to supply your own and clean it yourself as a condition of employment. This will also be true of restaurants and sports arenas.

      1. Taking a massive crap on the boss’s desk will be part of the interview process. You will be judged on the aroma, color, consistency, and quickness of the movement. This societal development will be welcomed by Big Bran.

  53. More problematic than bath room assignments is who will be forced to build more bathroom options. Or forced to pay for sex reassignment surgery. Or forced to buy health insurance policies that cover it for anyone who wants it.

  54. Look for the 2020 update to the ADA to require that all “public” businesses will need to offer three restrooms.

    1. You can count on that. All of this insanity is always looked upon with dollar signs by scumbag central planners. You know both parties love this.

      I just wish I could find a way to rip off morons with this stuff.

  55. I once saw a show about a guy who married his car.

    I thought “this is just stupid.”

  56. Please explain why it is so traumatic for a transgender M-F to use the men’s room? Can it be that much worse than how I feel using the typical gas station restroom?

    Seems to me that the standard should be that post-op gets to use the Women’s room.

    1. So,….. bathroom monitors checking genitalia?

  57. It’s Always About the Bathrooms, Isn’t It?

    Always. That is why God made us the way we are, so men would have urinals and women would wait in line like idiots.

  58. Why do we have separate men’s and women’s rooms? Is it to separate people by their abstract mental states or by their body parts?

    1. According to some of the latest gender theory I’ve read (sociologists and psychologists), the practice of gender expression, norms and mores is a societal construct based on mental perceptions of the individual filtering the reflected perceptions of the society at large, which are based on the “announced sex”, and societal interactions.

      Basically, “Doc says it’s a boy, buy the blue stuff!”

      The individual is left to live with it.

      1. There is such………stupidity? ignorance?……I’m not really sure what to call it….on display with this comment.

        People are male or female solely because the doctor noticed that they had a penis or a vagina?

        The fact that there are people who actually believe this is terrifying.

    2. I think the idea is to reduce sexual temptation. If that’s the principle, you should pick the bathroom of the gender you aren’t attracted to. Obviously, in the real world, that’s not a perfect rule for numerous obvious reasons.

  59. At my work, the typical ladies’ room has 2-3 stalls. 2 of the ladies’ rooms also have a small booth with a privacy curtain and a chair that is set aside for mothers pumping breast milk. Those pumps have a distinctive “whir whir” that is noticeable to anyone in the restroom.

    I could definitely see women being uncomfortable with male colleagues coming in and out while they are pumping.

    Since change is inevitable, mark my vote down for “Use what you identify with” rather than “everything is unisex.” I will always prefer sharing a restroom with humans who share my anatomy and understand my issues. Women often help each other in restrooms by giving a tampon or pad, makeup or hairspray, helping with pinning clothes that ripped, lending a shoulder to cry on.

    The loss of the “safe” women’s room culture would be a big bummer if all restrooms were unisex. I think a tranny wouldn’t really be too out of place in the scenes I named above, but Joe Hetero would be–especially if coworkers and not strangers!!

  60. And so Huckabee continues his quest to become more annoying than Santorum.

    Crazy-eyed libertardian solution to every problem related to “public” property: establish allodial property, sell all state property to private entities who will dictate policies in accordance with their values. Even bathroom-related policy (which might be helpful for certain establishments).

    Or we can just have idiots bitch about people who disagree with them in the Culture War without end.

  61. As long as it is no skin off my nose then why care. Its all of the twisting to make it an issue that causes most of the angst. And if you can’t see some boys trying this then it must have been a very long time since you were young.

    I don’t see it being a trend but I can easily see incidence of it happening.

  62. The rule should be that you’re only allowed to use the opposite-gender bathroom if you’re a CONVINCING transgender. If I don’t know that you’re not a woman, then I won’t give a fuck.

  63. But apparently there’s also a burgeoning “rape culture” in which every woman is under threat. Square the circle…

  64. Yes, isn’t it?

    http://www.dol.gov/asp/policy-…..ctices.pdf

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-g…..ansgender/

    The fine print says it’s not a regulation. If it’s not a regulation, what’s the legal basis for a complaint?

    “Disclaimer: This document is not a standard or regulation, and it creates no new legal obligations. It contains recommendations as well as descriptions of mandatory safety and health standards. The recommendations are advisory in nature, informational in content, and are intended to assist employers in providing a safe and healthful workplace. The Occupational Safety and Health Act requires employers to comply with safety and health standards and regulations promulgated by OSHA or by a state with an OSHA-approved state plan. In addition, the Act’s General Duty Clause, Section 5(a)(1), requires employers to provide their employees with a workplace free from recognized hazards likely to cause death or serious physical harm.”

  65. I must say, this comment section has been the best today!

    I’ve really enjoyed reading a synopsis of all the BS arguments about bathrooms and trans people. It seems the levels of hyperbole and hypocrisy increase with each mention of “transgender” Reason makes.

    I applaud you all for wearing your true colors in this discussion. As I am relatively new here and there being no programs available to identify the players, it’s up to each of us to read through months of comments to get a flavor for senses of humor, individual positions on topics and that sort of thing. Despite the hours and days spent at that task, I found that I had reached erroneous conclusions about some of you, and for that I apologize.

    I profess that I had accepted at face value some of you claiming to be Libertarian, when in fact, you’re not even libertarian. It has however been fun to watch the mob dynamic from a safe internet distance.

    1. There are far too many false statements, generalizations and counter-factual biases here to address them all (and likely a healthy dose of trolling), but a couple of choice items stand out.

      1. As an atheist, engineer, lesbian, biologist, trans, welder, pilot, woman, (gotta be John’s nightmare) I find it hysterical to be told my experience as a sentient being, a human, is invalid, abnormal, or delusional. Particularly when it’s attempted by some invisible, sky-fairy believer thinking I need to be “guided”. “Love the sinner, hate the sin”. Fuck you. How about you don’t commit what you consider “sin” and leave the rest of us alone. I’ll stand on my accomplishments and how I live my life and you can do the same. Or can you?

        For the generalizers, wouldn’t a claim of individuality and liberty allow for diversity? Why the rush to pile on the “Tranny Othering Persecution Wagon”? I don’t agree with the persecution of religion or religiously guided businesses and I don’t support those who do. In fact, I’d love it if all business could, but were not required to, post a sticker or sign indicating who they cater to, or choose not to. “Oh! You’re a bigoted asshole?” Thanks, I’ll go elsewhere!

        I understand that many people feel threatened by ‘us trannies’; (See, I can say it too!). Just as you cannot possibly understand my biological need to live as myself, I cannot understand your need to enforce your version of reality on those around you, or why you would feel threatened by the fact that I exist.

        I salute those of you who have tried to bring a rational viewpoint to any aspect of this conversation. For the remainder; as you were.

        1. For the generalizers, wouldn’t a claim of individuality and liberty allow for diversity? … I cannot understand your need to enforce your version of reality

          I’m not sure what you mean by “allow for diversity”. Has anybody here called for you to be shot, locked up, or exiled? Has anybody called for your reeducation or forcible medical treatments? Some people don’t approve of how you live your life. So what? What does that matter to you?

          1. “Some people don’t approve of how you live your life. So what? What does that matter to you?”

            Oh it doesn’t! Not in the slightest.

            1. Apparently it does:

              “Love the sinner, hate the sin”. Fuck you.

              You still haven’t articulated what your grievance is or what you actually want.

  66. That evangelical crowd are a hoot a minute, aren’t they? Kinda boring too.

    1. While I find the arguments repetitive at times, it’s always interesting to hear people who are not trans discuss what it is to be trans and how we came to be, how we should live, or if we even should live. It’s quite revealing, and I’m frequently disappointed as I have a tendency to think more highly of humanity than is perhaps warranted.

      1. My first job in 1968 at age 16 was as a busboy. My boss was a Black transvestite who wore his hair up and the pancake makeup. He had 6 of his trans friends working with us. Even then I knew it was going to be the best job I was ever going to have. Everybody had so much fun with them. They were highly intelligent, wonderful and had an immense influence on me and my outlook on life. Maybe the best experience of my life. Hang in there Whole Card.

      2. it’s always interesting to hear people who are not trans discuss what it is to be trans and how we came to be, how we should live,

        Since many trans-people favor anti-discrimination laws, they are telling other people how they should live, so it only seems fair that the reverse also happen.

        1. Is there any social political debate in which white heterosexual Christian males aren’t the true victims?

          1. I don’t know; you seem to be the expert on victimhood, so why don’t you tell us?

            However, as a gay non-Christian immigrant, I prefer not having anti-discrimination laws, because the price paid for them is too high.

  67. you can’t be offended if she’s greeted there by a 42-year-old man who feels more like a woman than he does a man.”

    By the same token, you can’t be offended if she’s greeted there by a 42-year-old 300 pound lesbian. What’s the point?

  68. “But given all the crap that transgender people have to put up with, does anyone really think the nation’s schools are about to be overrun with horny teens switching from M to F just to see some boobs?”

    Because of that, everybody else should have to give up any notion of semi-private spaces to take care of intimate functions? Why should the feelings of the majority have to give way to accommodate the feelings of a tiny minority? Whatever crap transgenders have to put with is not everyone else’s fault.

    In the California case mentioned, the school involved did its best to come to a compromise solution that protected the interests of everyone affected, but the student would not accept anything but imposing his presence on his female schoolmates.

    This bizarre phase of the sexual revolution is characterized by tremendous entitlement and lack of civility.

  69. “Since many trans-people favor anti-discrimination laws, they are telling other people how they should live…”

    If you are referring to those in the LGBTQ community who persecute others for refusing to serve them, I agree with you.

    I would prefer of course, that there were no need for such laws as I loathe social engineering. I don’t want to be classed as ‘protected’ based on the actions of others I share one characteristic with, but neither do I want to have my basic rights violated or denied based on anothers’ belief I may not share.

    1. If you are referring to those in the LGBTQ community

      There is no “LGBTQ community”. The fact that I like to sleep with men and that you do whatever it is you do doesn’t mean we share anything in common, let alone are part of a “community”.

      but neither do I want to have my basic rights violated or denied based on anothers’ belief I may not share.

      Being served by a private business or using someone’s private bathroom isn’t a “basic right” you or I have.

      I would prefer of course, that there were no need for such laws

      There is no need for such laws, except for the politicians who use you and such laws to gain power. Anti-discrimination laws are a bad idea, in particular for the people who they ostensibly protect. The sooner you realize that, the better for you.

  70. My place of work has men’s and women’s accommodations and a single, lockable unisex restroom. Ta-da. If I shat, I prefer to shit in there, because I never shit in the same room as someone else.

    1. Except Pyewacket, my cat. Not that he’s invited.

    2. Unless you’re on the Reason blog comment pages. Cuz then you do…

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  72. It angers me that part of these, so called, candidates are in the race to take votes away from Rand. I hope people are not that stupid. And, that opinion is coming from a right wing charismatic Christian. I never know if a guy using the urinal beside me is male or otherwise! And how would the women know that a transsexual is in their darned stalls?! Huck should have done us all a favor and stayed at home. Then again, maybe he will drain the votes from the other candidates, giving us, libertarian minded, an advantage! Just hoping!

  73. Whole Card|6.3.15 @ 11:01PM|#
    “I would prefer of course, that there were no need for such laws as I loathe social engineering. I don’t want to be classed as ‘protected’ based on the actions of others I share one characteristic with, but neither do I want to have my basic rights violated or denied based on anothers’ belief I may not share.”

    Late to this party, since, as the H&R designated asshole atheist, I figured it was gonna be 300 comments about how god said something or other and a hundred or so about how some things are ‘icky’!
    But as the H&R designated asshole atheist, I’ll simply offer support for the next time you flip the bird to someone telling you how to live.
    Somehow, I doubt you need that support…….

    1. Thanks; as you say, the support is not necessary, but it is genuinely appreciated!

  74. We all know how crowded bathroom lines are at concerts and clubs so, I usually opted to use the men’s restroom because there never seemed to be a line of more than 3 or 4 guys. And if I really had to go, they always let me cut in line. First, let me say, guys are the most courteous people in public bathrooms and since they mostly occupy the urinals the stahls were always empty so, I’d run in close the door, run out , wash my hands in pristine lavatories (not like the womens at all) and the guys would usually give me a farewell parting smile. Never, ever, did anyone act inappropriately.
    THEN, I went to a Melissa Ethridge concert and got hit on by at least 10 women. I never felt so uncomfortable in a public restroom in all my life!
    I wish there was a moral to this story but, I just can’t find one.

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  76. In the end it will be feminists who feel uncomfortable that make the biggest stink of it

  77. i didn’t care about bruce jenner when he did whatever it was he did in the olympics and i dont care about her now. besides, we’ve all been dealing with using the same bathrooms as homosexuals without it being an issue. im not sure i see the problem

  78. does anyone really think the nation’s schools are about to be overrun with horny teens switching from M to F just to see some boobs? For heaven’s sake, kids have the Internet for that now.

    The internet ain’t 3D and live!

  79. does anyone really think the nation’s schools are about to be overrun with horny teens switching from M to F just to see some boobs? For heaven’s sake, kids have the Internet for that now.

    The internet ain’t 3D and live!

  80. Based on unscientific discussions I’ve had with females – compared to my average men’s room experience (setting aside sporting event/concert bathrooms) – women’s rest rooms are apparently nastier than men’s rest rooms by a wide margin. I have no interest in combining my bathrooms with the descriptions I’ve heard of an “ordinary” women’s restrooms. I’ll have to start wearing depends and just letting nature take its course.

  81. Ex bar owner here. As a guy we DON’T want unisex bathrooms. Women’s bathrooms are really, really disgusting.

    All the prim and proper ways women pretend to be is shown to be not true when you see their bathrooms.

    1. No one should force businesses to have unisex restrooms, provided of course that they have sufficient room for two restrooms.

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  83. Why do we not merely leave it to the proprietor of a property whether or not to have unisex restrooms?

    In addition, I am unaware of any cases of persons being excluded from public restrooms due to being transgender.

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