Feds Rake in the Tax Dollars, Washington Auditor Indicted, Lincoln Chafee Declares He's—OMG NEW STAR WARS TRAILER: P.M. Links

• Former Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee announced today he will be running for president as a Democrat. He prefers the medium salsa in his burritos and just a touch of sour cream.
• Damon Root noted this morning that Justice Antonin Scalia wrote Ruth Bader Ginsburg's entry to Time's "100 Most Influential People." Also of interest, Hillary Clinton wrote Elizabeth Warren's entry, and Rand Paul wrote up Charles and David Koch.
• Washington State's auditor, Troy Kelly, has been indicted by a federal grand jury for filing false tax returns, possession of stolen property, and other crimes connected to a mortgage title service company he used to run.
• A Michigan auto repair shop owner says he will refuse service to openly gay people, so be sure not to engage in acts of sodomy in his waiting area.
• The real one-percenter is the federal government, which is hauling in more revenue than ever.
• But nobody is paying attention to any of the above anymore because this was just released:

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

A Michigan auto repair shop owner says he will refuse service to openly gay people, so be sure not to engage in acts of sodomy in his waiting area.

So no foreign cars?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Definitely no Subarus

[Rich]

Oh, my!

[Hamster of Doom]

Obligatory.

[GILMORE]

No = BRZ's are hetero. And the Outback is just "Bi-friendly"

[Zeb]

BRZs are also Toyotas.

[GILMORE]

I've never been clear on what the difference between the BRZ and Scion is supposed to be

There's even an article explaining it.... and i get halfway through and i'm like zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Zeb]

I'm pretty sure it's just badges and trim.

[PapayaSF]

I once asked a San Francisco Miata owner how he liked his car, and he said he did, but one problem was that lots of people thought he was gay.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Miata = I couldn't afford the Vette

[Tonio]

No, that's a Camaro. Miata=I wanted an MG but need a reliable vehicle.

[Episiarch]

Camaro IROC

Italian
Retard
Out
Cruising

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Ha, ha. I remember that.

Trans-Am and the Fiero too.

[PapayaSF]

Tonio is correct. Miatas have a great rep among car people for being affordable and reliable sports cars. I loved my TR-6 but it was a pain to keep running.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

My cousin is a race car driver and owns one. He took me out for a spin to show how good and fun a car it is.

[Pro Libertate]

It's no NSX.

[Zeb]

No, but much more affordable.

[Pro Libertate]

The NSX started out pretty low. It was just so hugely popular that the price shot up. A reliable Ferrari could've been their slogan.

[Zeb]

It is quite the car (not that I've had an opportunity to drive one).

[Pro Libertate]

If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

[Tonio]

A TR-6, eh? So, what medical school did you put your mechanic's kid through? /old gearhead

[Ted S.]

It's San Francisco. Isn't everybody there gay?

[PapayaSF]

Not all of us.

[jesse.in.mb]

I knew a car engineer who loved Miatas and was very upset that they'd gotten a rep as a gay midlife crisis car. Of course everyone was sure he was a closet case and he and my ex spent a LOT of time together after we broke up and he and his wife divorced, so it is what it is.

[Mad Scientist]

There are a bunch of older Miatas in my racing series. Now that you mention it, one of them rear-ended me pretty hard one day.

[JW]

RUBBING IS RAPING.

[Episiarch]

How much did you enjoy it?

BE HONEST.

[Mad Scientist]

I was a little sore.

[Tonio]

Use a higher quality lube next time.

[seguin]

I used to build Spec Miata engines. I understand Miatas are a lot of fun, but some of their adherents are pretty cultish. Give off a creepy vibe. Like some VW guys as well.

[GILMORE]

Miatas (noted below) are like one of the most popular *racetrack* cars on earth.

They're built to be modified. the market for tuning them is huge. There's like 2 classes of races explicitly built around MX5 platforms.

"'The Mazda Miata has a reputation for being one of the most customizable sports cars ever made. As the world's most popular roadster, the Miata is prolific enough that cars and parts for them are easily found. Miatas are often modified for track racing, road course racing, drifting, and autocross. Modifications range from body styling to extreme engine tuning. The small four-cylinder in the Miata can be tuned and turbocharged or replaced with anything up to a small-block V8, if you have the knowledge and skills. The car's excellent handling characteristics, low build, and simple, yet versatile chassis make it a winner all around when it comes to tuning potential."

That said = it can go both ways.

[PapayaSF]

^This.

[PapayaSF]

Hey Gilmore, if you're a car guy, you might enjoy these two sites:

http://blog.hemmings.com
http://bringatrailer.com

[GILMORE]

way ahead of you.

Todays car porn = Iso Grifo GL300

[seguin]

Absolutely love the Isos. I'm more of a Rivolta guy though.

[GILMORE]

He was great in "Urban Cowboy"

[Mokers]

anything up to a small-block V8

LS1 Turbo Miata vs. Ferrari

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlCvMH6Zcuc

[Mad Scientist]

I would love to drop a 13B rotary into a Miata.

[Brett L]

It used to be that the Miata was the only 2-seater you could fit a set of golf clubs in the trunk. But yeah. Gay.

[fish]

.....the only 2-seater you could fit a set of golf clubs in the trunk.

The jokes write themselves!

[Enough About Palin]

When they first came out, I was working for Honeywell. The COO was from Italy and his kid, about 22, was in America for the summer. Nice kid and very handsome. His dad bought him a Miata (back when converables were a rarity) and all I could think was this kid is getting laid every single night.

[Zeb]

Subarus are only signs of gayness for women.

It seems like almost every woman I know owns a subaru, now that I think of it. And only about 10% of them are gay.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

A man has to know his limits, no?

[Anonymous Coward]

Prius drivers , consider yourselves warned,

[BigT]

P-R-I-U-S

P-I-U-S

P-U-S

P-U

P

[cavalier973]

"Stop being happy in my place of business, boy."

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Only two things come into my shop, steering wheels and queering wheels, and I don't see any-" I don't know, you guys figure the rest out.

[seguin]

"Horn buttons, boy."

[PapayaSF]

He gives a discount if you bring your gun. Police don't count, unless they are off-duty and it's their gun, not the taxpayer's. Gotta love that.

[jesse.in.mb]

Pink Pistols don't get thrown out, but pay full price?

[lap83]

aren't pink pistols too tacky for gay men? *interprets it literally*

[Fist of Etiquette]

Former Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee announced today he will be running for president as a-

Joke?

[Rich]

At least Lincoln has the name recognition.

[cavalier973]

Didn't he have something to do with the Immiseration Provocation?

[GILMORE]

He rubs me the wrong way.

("Chafee"? GET IT??!?)

[Bobarian (sexbot hand model)]

And an odd celebrity endorsement?

[Pro Libertate]

That's not possible, because the media has assured me that only Hillary Clinton, ultra-competent senior stateswoman, is running.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Also of interest, Hillary Clinton wrote Elizabeth Warren's entry...

Squaw of big importance whose time has not yet been earned.

[Episiarch]

Heap squaw turn!

[Catatafish]

Not enough wampum from foreign dictators.

[$park? the Swifty]

Can someone please the following to me:

If GOVERNMENT = NO
Then BUSINESS = MONOPOLY

[Bam!]

If government doesn't exist, businesses become monopolies?

[$park? the Swifty]

That's the theory. I would love for an enlightened individual to explain why.

[Zeb]

Laws are magical and wise. Antitrust laws exist. Therefore they are the only thing that prevents monopolistic businesses from running everything. QED.

[$park? the Swifty]

I got involved in a conversation last night in which this premise was being discussed. I knew it was bullshit when Comcast and Wal-mart entered the picture. I was just a bit curious about the thinking behind it.

At least nobody busted out the "Monopoly is a game" defense.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

It's a scientific "fact" that there is no anarchistic monopolies.

[Ted S.]

I can't please that at all.

[$park? the Swifty]

Damn you..........

I blame my phone.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Just like your wife.

[Episiarch]

Wait...not your mom?

[Zeb]

I can't parse it either.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Tony may help?

[Tonio]

Explain it, you mean? No, it seems like gibberish.

[Injun, as in from India]

FIFY:

Explain it, you mean? No, it seems like gibberish. PROGRESSIVE SPEAK!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

NO KILL I

[Pro Libertate]

The pain!

[Rich]

NO MONOPOLY, NO PEACE!

[Zeb]

Everyone is calling out for peace.
None is calling out for justice.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Washington State's auditor, Troy Kelly, has been indicted by a federal grand jury for filing false tax returns, possession of stolen property, and other crimes connected to a mortgage title service company he used to run.

So he didn't support Obama's Iran deal, either, huh?

[PBR Streetgang]

I don't know how to post a link, but Melittha Harrith Perry apparently has a problem paying her taxes also. $70K behind, not paying her fair share

[Tonio]

[a href="www.linkgoeshere.com/etc"]This text will be highlighted in orange and when clicked will take you to the link[/a]

Use angle-brackets (aka less-than and greater-than signs) instead of square brackets.

[PBR Streetgang]

Or just for someone else to do it. I might as well be a gov employee.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Links like those practically post themselves.

[Rich]

Thlacker!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Oh yeah?

http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....acism.html

Here's an article about that:

http://www.journalnow.com/news.....356be.html

[Anonymous Coward]

Lien Forward, Melissa.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ouch.

[Swiss Servator...burn B??gg!]

Nice!

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Needs more funky light saber

[The DerpRider]

But nobody is paying attention to any of the above anymore because this was just released:

At the end, Han shows up and says "We're home." Any chance it will be his actual home planet that I only just found by googling?Or will it be Tattoine? Will there be a fanboi riot?

[DaveSs]

I don't think they would be referring to his home planet.
I suspect over the last few decades Solo has been a leader in the New Republic and stuck behind a desk somewhere hating every minute of it, and because of the little adventure happening he's back in the captain's seat of the Falcon.

I'm pretty sure the desert planet is not Tatooine

[Mickey Rat]

Hobbiton.

[Ted S.]

Since I refuse to click on a gif substituting for video, did you mean this?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Elitist

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Try this on for size!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHe5JJtLiA0

[Injun, as in from India]

The real one-percenter is the federal government, which is hauling in more revenue than ever.

Tax those bast***s.

Oh wait. Never mind.

[Xeones]

Damn, Harrison Ford's gotten old as hell.

[Bam!]

Chewy remains well groomed.

[PBR Streetgang]

His hair was perfect.

[cavalier973]

Was he drinking a pina colada at Space Trader Vic's?

[Xeones]

He ate all my almonds again! That fucking guy.

[Ted S.]

He was getting caught in the rain, too.

[fish]

...and without a single grey hair as near as I can tell!

[Fist of Etiquette]

He said the same of you.

[Xeones]

Funny, your mom didn't agree.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

But can it surpass Attack of the Clones as the best Star Wars ever?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Meesa thinks yousa nuts

[Dances-with-Trolls]

I'm not sure what's wrong with me, but even being raised on the originals I still like the new 3 better. Probably wasn't hugged enough as a child or something.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Embrace your identity...let the dreck flow through you...

[PapayaSF]

That is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on H+R.

[Atanarjuat]

Yeah. Sugarfree's got nothing on him.

[Restoras, OWG]

I really enjoyed Phantom Menace. But I also still haven't read Dune.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

ProL will be along shortly to rip your stillsuit. I won't stoop to your level to bother with it.

[Pro Libertate]

Wow, this is like an on-line gom jabbar. Which has been failed utterly. Send in the Bene Gesserit sex-death squad.

[JW]

Show us on the doll where the head injury occurred.

[The DerpRider]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBhi6qqFLA

[esteve7]

excuse me sir, Star Wars 1-3 never happened. Go Check out RedLetterMedia on that.

Empire was the best. hands down

[Restoras, OWG]

Yes, Empire is the best...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGOVbXF7Iog

[Cyto]

And if you haven't watched RedLetterMedia's "reviews" of 1-3, please do so. You'll enjoy yourself immensely as it is laugh out loud funny for Star Wars nerds. But it is very NSFW, so be aware.

[tarran]

I couldn't make it past the LucasFilm logo. It triggered me.

It reminded me of the trauma of the Phantom Menace, where money that could have been spent buying a Bic Mac Extra Value Meal do that my colon could be pressure washed was instead wasted on that horrible execrecence.

Never saw Attack of the Clones, nor did I see Al Gore's Love Story.

I... I... just can't go back.

[Auric Demonocles]

I actually find the Anakin/Obi-Wan battle to be the most satisfying 10 minutes of the entire franchise. (But that's only because it means the 9 hours of dealing with his whiny arrogant ass is coming to an end)

[lap83]

I still can't tell if episode 3 was decent or if it just seemed so because the other two were such crap

[Swiss Servator...burn B??gg!]

Yes.

[Catatafish]

I want to punch you in your planet core.

[Brett L]

Is that the one where he used two manequins as stand ins dor Natalie Portman and the guy who played whiny Anakon?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Based on the mechanic's website, I'd say penis extensions are welcome

[Derpetologist]

Repost: This guy was part of Nirvana AND Soundgarden but left both before they made it. He later became a Green Beret:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07.....d=all&_r=1

[Hamster of Doom]

Seems an odd choice, since he's got no damned luck to speak of.

[Enough About Palin]

I worked for a guy that was Cheap Trick's drummer when they were just getting started. Went to law school instead, became an officer at a multi-billion dollar corporation and retired with more money than probably all of the guys in the band put together. He hooks up with them when they happen to be in the same city and time permits.

[PapayaSF]

Really? All the sources I can find say Bun. E. Carlos was the founding drummer.

[Enough About Palin]

This was back when they were a grage band and not yet called Cheap Trick.

[Ted S.]

He's from the Dream Compliance Department?

[Enough About Palin]

the fuck does that mean?

[This Machine]

I remember reading this a couple years ago. Pretty cool story.

[GILMORE]

I think the comments to that piece are helpful in demonstrating that "assholes" are really only about 10% of the population.

Amusing, that the NYT seems to go out of their way to FIND the most Assholish Comments and then "pick" them as notable. Example =

"...How ironic is it that those "rebels" who rose to success through grunge bands mentioned herein now worry more about which corporate entities will yield them a better return on their royalties and how to maximize capital gain income? They have been beamed up to become the 1%ers and cogs in the corporate America they were seemingly against back in their flannel and jeans days. I'm not criticizing anyone but that Nirvana and Soundgarden were not playing music for music's sake - they wanted to make $...."

Really, its almost like a competition to see who can inject the most lefty/progressive political view into the most completely unrelated context. because that should be the takeaway about the "Rockstar Special Forces Soldier" = *capitalism sux, dude*

[Limpee Wiltstock]

I think it's kind of wrong. They didn't play music for music's sake or, primarily, to make money. I don't think you can put a reason to it. It's something they had to do. May as well try to make a living at it. But then I've been told by a close friend, "I think you're confusing art with psychosis.". It's like when a person reads about somebody or other who made an attempt at writing, painting, playing the accursed ukelele, what-have-you, but eventually gave it up because it took up too much time, he couldn't make a living at it, he joined the Jehovahs, his grandpa wouldn't approve, or whatever. Thing is, some folks is seized by whatever it is and it doesn't bloody matter whether it works out, whether they do well, whether anyone approves, or they can make a living at it--it's just something they got to do. They can't never give no explanation for it except for some glib crap that's obviously a load of poppycock and rationalisations. Same way you'll see a "successful" artist keep on producing long after he's making enough cash, often regardless ill-health or anything, and it'll go on in cases almost right up on to the break of death. So I guess the commenter's ignorance can be understandable, since he's clearly weighted down by the artless soul of a pinko realist.

[Injun, as in from India]

A Michigan auto repair shop owner says he will refuse service to openly gay people, so be sure not to engage in acts of sodomy in his waiting area.

The bigot mechanic is worried about what? That THE GAYZ will stick something into his tailpipe?

[Episiarch]

Now I want to go watch Beverly Hills Cop.

[Catatafish]

You just take those bananas.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

"The bigot mechanic is worried about what? That THE GAYZ will stick something into his tailpipe?"

They used to do it every time.

[Rich]

Hillary Parks in Handicap Spot

Cut her some slack. She's what, 93 years old?

[Jerry on the sea]

Well, she did suffer that brain injury...

[Rich]

Good point.

[Tonio]

Ima betting that the faithful will just give her a pass on that.

[Pro Libertate]

Why not? They give her a pass on everything else--lack of competence, dishonesty, scandal-a-day, none of it matters. I can't even come up with an illogical reason for that.

[Brett L]

When Linc Chafee is the more competent candidate for a party's nination, they may be scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[Rich]

nination

I like it.

[Brett L]

My typing orphan is sick and the phone keyboard is obviously designed for 12 year old girl hands. Should have been nomination. But when you backspace instead of typing "m" you lose 2 letters.

[Ted S.]

Use a qwerty keyboard instead.

[Brett L]

What did you call me? I ain't no qwert.

[jesse.in.mb]

A little Dvorak-curious though?

[d3x / dt3]

My Dvorak keyboard YFIVGKU OFPDL!

[jesse.in.mb]

My typing orphan is sick

And you didn't call the Adorphan temp division!?

I am wounded. I bet you called Nikki's Orphan Bargain Barn.

[Bobarian (sexbot hand model)]

My typing orphan is sick

You allow your orphans to be sick?

"You had better be dead, or I swear to the Koch Brothers you'll wish you were!"

[Derpetologist]

Spot the Not: It's not FAIR!

1. Fixing America's Inequities with Revenues (FAIR) Act

2. Financial Accounting for Intangibles Reexamination (FAIR) Act

3. Fiscal Accountability and Intergovernmental Reform (FAIR) Act

4. Foreign Agricultural Investment Reform (FAIR) Act

5. Family Agricutural Insurance Reform (FAIR) Act

6. Free Market Antitrust Immunity Reform (FAIR) Act

[trshmnster the terrible]

2 seems reasonable, but it doesn't read right. It doesn't seem like it has been focus grouped and massaged into a tidy little name.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

3

[Injun, as in from India]

Easy. #6.

There ain't no such thing as a free market!

[Catatafish]

2. I think the word "reexamination" triggers everyone remotely connected to government.

[Derpetologist]

#5 is the Not. Family is one of their favorite buzzwords. It's right up there with children and small businesses and reform.

Haha, fooled ya!

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

"and Rand Paul wrote up Charles and David Koch."

Rand Paul trolls better than any have trolled before.

[BigT]

The Pope will hold a major summit on climate change.

Apparently this is an attempt at ecumenism with the new religion of AGW.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Maybe it's an effort to unify the two religions?

[Injun, as in from India]

Can the pope convert CO2 into wine? That would be swell.

[BigT]

Great idea - replace the wine at mass with champagne to recycle all that CO2.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Gotta keep up with the times, it's where the best fundraising is at

[Tonio]

Apparently this is an attempt at ecumenism with the new religion of AGW.

Nice.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

In my old Roman missal, there are prayers for just this thing.

[Rich]

Woman Blames Coffee-Drinking Parrot For Car Crash

"Polly want a crack-up!"

[Heroic Mulatto]

Now for a heartwarming tale of religious tolerance and cooperation:

Muslims who were among migrants trying to get from Libya to Italy in a boat this week threw 12 fellow passengers overboard -- killing them -- because the 12 were Christians, Italian police said Thursday. ... The original group of 105 people left Libya on Tuesday in a rubber boat. Sometime during the trip north across the Mediterranean Sea, the alleged assailants -- Muslims from the Ivory Coast, Mali and Senegal -- threw the 12 overboard, police said.

Other people on the voyage told police that they themselves were spared "because they strongly opposed the drowning attempt and formed a human chain," Palermo police said. ... The 12 who died were from Nigeria and Ghana, police said.

[Injun, as in from India]

By the beard of the prophet, that's just... Very Islamic?

[PBR Streetgang]

Just throwing those Christians off their high-horse.

[Derpetologist]

How dare you imply that groovy brown people can be bigots! Next you'll be telling me that Jamaica hates gay people. That can't be true otherwise Obama would never have visited.

http://www.theguardian.com/wor.....hts.gender

? Kill fag easy, steady kill fag...

[Heroic Mulatto]

Batty Boys need to stay far from we

[Derpetologist]

Hm. Same tune as Tryin' catch me ridin' dirty.

[GILMORE]

While that song is homo"phobic", the OG classic was technically about murdering homosexuals

and it was really kind of a big hit too. Its still - even among people who know what its about - something of a club grinder.

[GR8IPAZ]

Yea, don't let the tolerance police learn that "Christian" isn't a proxy term for "straight, white, male."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The Jews made them do it.

[Heroic Mulatto]

The Jews made them do it.

Someone wrote an opera about that.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

So, is the opera anti-semitic?

[Stormy Dragon]

It suggests the Israel/Palestinian situation as being more complicated than the Jewish Armies of Light vs. the Palestinian Orcish Horde.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Of which the murder of a wheelchair-bound, 69-year-old Jewish American was the perfect context in which to explore that complicated situation, naturally.

[Cytotoxic]

the Israel/Palestinian situation as being more complicated than the Jewish Armies of Light vs. the Palestinian Orcish Horde.

It really isn't though.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

Mostly when folks is going on about how X or whatever is more complicateder than "that" or however it may be put, turns out in reality that X is in fact a heck of a lot simpler than anyone's daring to put it.

[PapayaSF]

I guess Italy is xenophobic, because I keep hearing that all immigration is good.

[kbolino]

I keep hearing that all immigration is good

Listening to the "All Cytotoxic, All the Time" channel can't be good for your sanity.

[Cytotoxic]

I'm sure nothing gives Papaya a chubby faster than some awful act undertaken by an immigration. Get your xenophobe on!

[PapayaSF]

Is it hard to always come up with such interesting and insightful comments?

[Cytotoxic]

For me, it is effortless.

[d3x / dt3]

#TFT

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

It's been 38 years, isn't it time we declared the War on Stars a failure?

[Episiarch]

I've been calling it that since 1999. Actually since the "remastered" version of the originals came out. Actually since Jedi.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I bet you thought the Ewoks weren't cuddly enough

[Episiarch]

Not even remotely enough Ewok sex. Especially spitroasting. YUB YUB

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I can't help it, every time I see YUB YUB, I break out in laughter

[Episiarch]

Enjoy.

[Dweebston]

Probably the one and only time a youtube comment added something of substance to a video:

Some people didn't like how George Lucas replaced Sabastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen. But imagine the outrage if Lucas replaced Shaw with the 9 year old Anakin, played by Jake Lloyd, yelling "Yipeee!"

In retrospect, Lucas showed a lot of restraint by not dropping trou on camera and shitting on the original production reels. So there's that.

[Brett L]

Harrison Ford's career survived.

[Episiarch]

Have you seen Crystal Skull?

[tarran]

NO I DIDN'T!!!!!!!!

IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!!!

[Brett L]

was that the fan-fic Indiana Jones movie? I thought it was nice of him to show up for a couple of kids making their first movie in a park.

[Catatafish]

Epi, everyone knows George meant for Greedo to shoot first anyway...

*sigh*

[Brett L]

If only you hadn't been so Progressive about old religions Mr. Grand Moff.

[Mad Scientist]

There can be only one!

[MJGreen]

Here's ten dollars. Go see a star war.

[db]

Annyong?

[Pro Libertate]

You should refer to it as Krieg der Sterne.

[Derpetologist]

Random Thought: Even if the Native Americans were not decimated by disease, the Europeans would still have ended up dominating the continent. In South Africa, the Europeans were the ones decimated by disease, but still came out ahead.

Whichever group has better weapons will come out on top no matter the other factors. The Mongols were greatly outnumbered, but the superiority of their arms and armor made that meaningless.

[Bam!]

America has better weapons but got scrubbed by ragheads with rusty AK's in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

If we'd wanted to take over Iraq and supplant the locals with Americans we could have. We just didn't want to because that sort of vicious colonialism is seen today as being...uh...completely monstrous.

[Derpetologist]

define "scrubbed".

I'll give you a hint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWuP6dmYOE0

[Bam!]

My counter:

Apache pilots encountered enemy fire so intense that every aircraft received multiple hits and by the end of that first day, only two of the seven Apaches that flew into the Shahi Kot valley were still flyable.

Been there for more than 10 years and still haven't gotten anything close to victory.

[Catatafish]

I think the point is we failed to engage in total war for political reasons. Those Apaches would have a lot fewer holes after a Lancer carpet-bombed the Shahi Kot into gravel.

[PapayaSF]

Exactly. America wins all-out wars. We only fail at limited ones.

[Injun, as in from India]

Unlike the Mongols, a desire to not burn down and exterminate entire cities probably also had something to do with it? If America deployed nukes and destroyed Kabul and Kandahar, maybe the Afghans would have given up? Darn that infidel American conscience?

[trshmnster the terrible]

We have enough nukes to make most of the world uninhabitable for years. Any war that we lose is because we trip over our own collective dick.

Don't get me wrong, it is a testament to some shred of morality that we don't exterminate entire nations via carpet nuking, but losing a war is less about opposition and more about operational restrain and sheer boredom.

[Bam!]

If America deployed nukes and destroyed Kabul and Kandahar, maybe the Afghans would have given up?

Doubtful. It likely would have became a rallying crying across the Mideast. America didn't nuke everyone because of conscience but because it was bad strategy.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

If the United States wanted to, it could literally murder every man woman and child in the Middle East and sell any survivors into slavery.

There's just nothing any country in the Middle East could do. Imagine if we took all the money we spend on welfare and put it into warfare. The military potential of America is pretty much unlimited. We have the tenth highest per capita GDP on Earth (the only country in the top 10 with more than 15 million people, incidentally) and the third highest population.

I just looked it up and the Middle East has about 200 million people as a region. That means we have 100 million more people than the entire region and our GDP is probably 10 times higher than the Middle East as a whole.

Any difficulty we have in the Middle East is due to morals and an admirable unwillingness to commit genocide. We could turn ourselves into history's greatest monsters and commit the worst ethnic cleansing in history, but we don't out of a sense of morality and decency.

[Bam!]

Anything that would require a ground presence can be pushed back against. Populace don't remain passive, especially in the Mideast, and when America has fought anything other than a military, it has lost. Your entire scenario treats people as if they are inanimate widgets and whoever has more widgets automatically wins. History has never born that out.

[Bam!]

Furthermore, you're not really arguing that whoever has the best weapons wins, but whoever is the most brutal wins. That's different.

[Pro Libertate]

What's vaguely troubling to me are the parallels to the Romans with, first, Greece, then later with Judea. The Romans originally would intervene, stop whatever nonsense was going on, then leave. For the times and for the Romans, they were reasonably restrained. That happened in both cases multiple times, until they decided no more Mr. Nice Roman. With the Greeks, they just took over, but with Judea, they finally just totally oppressed the population and slaughtered about every radical Jew they could get their hands on.

I'm hoping we're not on a similar path.

[Peachy rex]

Make a waste and call it peace?

[Suthenboy]

"America has better weapons but got scrubbed by ragheads with rusty AK's..."

Only the ragheads were fighting to win. It makes a hell of a difference.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

I think that if the Native Americans hadn't been decimated by disease it's unlikely they would have ended up all dead though. I don't think there was any intention to commit genocide, so there'd probably be a shitload more Native Americans around were it not for smallpox.

[Derpetologist]

Right. It would be like South Africa- native majority, but a dominant white minority.

NTTARWT (not that there's anything right with that)

[Catatafish]

Has there ever been an estimate on population levels at different stages of European North American expansion? I'm curious as to whether - sans smallpox - euro communities were breeding at a higher rate with lower infant mortality than the native populations for other reasons or not (crop yields, mercantilism, etc.).

[Limpee Wiltstock]

Displacement. Indians got drove off their traditional farmlands, moved on, started crowding in on other Indians' territory, scuffling, then one or the other moving further on, till everybody in the continent was a bunch of nomadic jerks shoving each other around and failing to thrive, except for the immigrants. Further complicated by the introduction of Horse and the attendant superiority of the bow over the throwing stick.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

WE'RE #1!

[Limpee Wiltstock]

I wouldn't really say the Europeans in South Africa "came out ahead".

[GILMORE]

"A Michigan auto repair shop owner says he will refuse service to openly gay people"

This probably also includes cars that are totally gay.

I'm looking at you, Chrysler Sebring.

[Mad Scientist]

And you, Mazda Miata.

[GILMORE]

Hey now! Miatas are the most popular tuner cars on earth. Don't diss on it. Plus, its not gay when you keep your eyes closed.

[Episiarch]

"Young people, be less picky about who you screw. 'Cause it all feels the same in the dark."

[Mad Scientist]

Bisexual cars are the real problem. Gay cars and straight cars can at least hold an alignment. Those bi cars are always crabbing.

[PapayaSF]

See my story above. But I like them.

[Brett L]

My woman hating former boss drove a Sebring convertible. I really do think that a nasty divorce turned him gay. No proof of the gay part, but loooots of things that pinged the gaydar. And he did not like women younger than 50 at all.

[Jerry on the sea]

OR the Plymouth Prowler.

[Hamster of Doom]

Let no one say I never gave you people anything.

[Dweebston]

I like that level 2 is already midnight with only five hours of sleep possible. That's end-game for me.

[Hamster of Doom]

Ditto. I start doing cost ratios in my head, in re: the enjoyment I get from watching the next episode, versus how cranky I'll be in the morning without that 45 minutes' sleep.

This is how I know I am officially middle-aged.

[Anonymous Coward]

From the man who brought you, "I would use the military to force Congress to vote to raise the defense budget" the state of South Carolina proudly presents "Lindsey Graham: The Second Amendment isn't a check on the federal government because CIVIL WAR"

WASHINGTON ? Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz's argument that the Second Amendment provides the "ultimate check against government tyranny" is a bit too extreme for potential 2016 rival and fellow Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC).

"Well, we tried that once in South Carolina. I wouldn't go down that road again," Graham said, in an apparent reference to the Civil War. "I think an informed electorate is probably a better check than, you know, guns in the streets."

Speaking to a few reporters near the Senate floor Thursday, Graham was answering questions from TPM about the Texas firebrand and presidential candidate's argument made in a fundraising email that the Second Amendment confers a right to revolt against the government.

[MJGreen]

I think an informed electorate is probably a better check than, you know, guns in the streets.

Informed of what? Who their betters are?

[Hamster of Doom]

"I think an informed electorate is probably a better check..."

Let me know when we get one.

[Catatafish]

If ever there was a creature that needed a punch to the trachea more than Lindsey Graham, I have yet to encounter it.

[LynchPin1477]

I think an informed electorate is probably a better check than, you know, guns in the streets.

Better, as in more desirable? Yes. But Cruz said "ultimate"

: happening or coming at the end of a process, series of events, etc.
: greatest or most extreme

And Cruz is right.

[d3x / dt3]

Well, Senator Huckleberry Closet-Case sure told us!

This is a re-tread of the "your .38 is no match for the 101st Airborne" straw-man argument. The point is not that privately-owned guns make it impossible to drag us to the camps. The point is that it makes it more ?expensive? to do so. You can't just send some Brownshirt to tell people to come along; you have to send a small army of armed thugs with the real chance that some of them will be killed.

Oh yeah, and fuck Graham.

[Private FUQ]

What is also completely missed is that I would find it very unlikely that you could get the military to go to war with citizens. I suspect that 75% of the military would abandon their posts and join the citizens if they were ordered to fire on the citizenry. I am former military. My wife is current military and most of the people on both sides of our family have previously served. Any time this conversation has come up it is an overwhelming majority that would walk away.

[d3x / dt3]

You have now been promoted to PFC FUQ.

[JW]

OMG NEW STAR WARS TRAILER

From the Jar Jar Binks of directing.

[Episiarch]

Meesa cast Sherlock Holmes assa Khan!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Abrams? Abrams was utterly unsuited for Star Trek but he's perfect for Star Wars since he's so reverent of the works of young Spielberg and Lucas before they turned to the dark side.

Hell, it looks like they even used a matte painting to create the image of the wrecked Star Destroyer we see in that trailer.

It'll be good.

[JW]

Abrams couldn't direct a Mentos commercial without butchering it.

The man has no style of his own, other than incompetent bumbling and falling down a lot.

[Mad Scientist]

Lens flares are a style!

[MJGreen]

That's silly. The Lost pilot is great, MI:3 and Star Trek were well directed, Super 8 was good. Maybe he doesn't have the substance that Spielberg has, but he picked up all of the right tricks.

[Catatafish]

I've never understood the JJ Abrams hate.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

True proof of art.

[Episiarch]

Abrams at his best is entertaining and tolerable. But he has very, very little style. If you compare him even slightly to Spielberg again, I will punch Mad Scientist in the taint. So don't do that, unless you want a laugh.

[MJGreen]

He had to go with a lens flare joke, so I must:

Abrams is the Millennial generation's Spielberg. Star Trek Into Darkness is his Jaws.

[Mad Scientist]

OUCH!

[Episiarch]

Don't make me hit him again.

[Pro Libertate]

You say that now, but you haven't heard about Abrams reboot of Schindler's List.

[JW]

Star Trek were well directed

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaaaa...ehhhh...

Wait, you were serious?

[trshmnster the terrible]

+1 highly emotional Spock

[Catatafish]

Is the Star Trek hate truly due to a critique of his craft or is it more related to its adherence to the source material (or lack thereof) in style and substance?

[Episiarch]

There is definitely hate for it not being...original *cough* ProL *cough*. I personally found the first new one to be entertaining, fun fluff. But I turned off Into Darkness after 15 minutes. It was...horrifically bad.

[Pro Libertate]

Oh, posh. I object to you. I object to intellect without discipline; I object to power without constructive purpose.

[JW]

See my link below.

[Catatafish]

Hahahahaha. Christ, that was well done, JW.

I've only watched the Abrams ST movies once but I'm actually interested to view them again after having read your...review.

[JW]

I followed up with addendums, once I calmed down a bit.

But, gottdamn, that movie pissed me the fuck off.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm with JW here. In general, I'm not a fan of this trend, which has been going on a while now, to reboot successful franchises while tossing out the soul of the franchise. I was pretty pissed when they made Mr. Phelps a bad guy in the first Mission: Impossible movie. What's next, a movie on the founding of the U.S. with evil George Washington?

Fear of doing something completely original is huge in Hollywood, that's for fucking sure.

[Stormy Dragon]

I was pretty pissed when they made Mr. Phelps a bad guy in the first Mission: Impossible movie

I thought "guy the audience was SURE they understood turns out to have been fooling us the whole episode" aspect of it was perfectly in keeping with the show's style.

[Pro Libertate]

Don't piss me off more than I already am.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

His movies are entertaining, which is the basic point of a Star Wars movie. It isn't supposed to be challenging or provocative because the characters and the stories are so archetypal that we already know it.

Star Trek, on the other hand, is supposed to be weightier rather than just action and loud noises.

So the reason he failed at making Star Trek movies is the reason why he'll make a good Star Wars one.

[Cytotoxic]

Star Trek, on the other hand, is supposed to be weightier rather than just action and loud noises.

If by 'weightier' you mean 'boring and pretentious' then you know what? I think we'll ditch the fake-sci-fi BS (Tachyons!) and scenes of people holding conferences for something actually entertaining.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

"His movies are entertaining, which is the basic point of a Star Wars movie."

That was the point? Somehow I totally missed it.

[MJGreen]

What's wrong with the directing in Star Trek? Especially compared to most action/scifi movies being produced? Some of his casting choices are really bizarre, and that's all that comes to mind for me. It's paced well, the action is comprehensible, performances are fine, the emotional and character beats worked. It's a good Star Wars movie in the Star Trek universe.

Into Darkness was stupid, but still... competently directed. Just very, very stupid. He's not blameless for that, because it's not like he's some hired director, but my understanding is that there was a lot of stupid shit going on behind the scenes.

[JW]

I won't lay all of the blame at the feet of Abrams. At least half of it is to the hyper-apocalyptically bad writing team of Lindelof and the Transformer Twins.

Those 3 need some time in the agony booth. Maybe a decade or so..

[trshmnster the terrible]

Speaking of the agony booth... how about a fucking mirror universe movie?

Evil Kirk trying to get ahold of the technical details that nimoy Spock brought with him when he time traveled, enslaving people, forcing them to build this doomsday device. Good Kirk wrestling with his humanity, trying to keep his morals, but getting increasingly desperate as evil kirk gets closer and closer to building a device that can destroy entire planets.

No, instead we get teenage mutant star trek officers and white bread khan.

[Cytotoxic]

Oh Christ you people are STILL mad that the new ST kicks the old ST's ass? Get over it. We prefer movies with decent acting in them.

Spielberg is overrated anyway.

[JW]

Super 8 was good

Super 8 was a Spielberg fan movie.

I know he only produced Cloverfield, but I was rooting for the monster the entire time.

[PapayaSF]

The Lost pilot is great

Seriously? I stopped watching when, after the crash, one of the detached engines was still running in a manner meant to be dramatic and threatening.

[JW]

"Smoke Monster"

Never has anything so tenuous been So. Fucking. Stupid.

I'm just gonna leave this hier.

[MJGreen]

So you stopped watching 30 seconds into the premiere?

The running engine is great. A guy gets sucked into it and it explodes! What exactly do you want? They later shoot a polar bear on the tropical island, so consider the engine as conditioning for what's to come.

[Hamster of Doom]

All flash, no substance. Tricks? Tricks? Any co-ed can learn a little about blowjobs by the end of freshman year, but the kind of raw talent you see in select pornos, which makes your own toes curl in sympathy, cannot be faked with trickery.

It's like spending all year waiting for Christmas dinner. Your mom spent the whole year talking about how awesome Christmas dinner was going to be. Your cousins and siblings begin holding discussions on Grandma's back porch, about the sort of dishes served at previous Christmas dinners, lingering lovingly over the details. And then Christmas dinner finally arrives, and someone hands you a slab of storebought cake with three inches of frosting shat onto dry, nuanceless carbs. And you fucking cry, man, you cry, because it's just not right.

[JW]

Damn, that's beautiful.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'll have whatever she's having.

[Episiarch]

That may be one of the most brutal takedowns of Abrams I've seen. I don't know if you needed to be so harsh, though. He can be entertaining at times.

[Hamster of Doom]

Ehh, yeah. You know what we all do. We scrape most of that insipid three inches of frosting off, and eat our damned cake. Because, y'know... it's cake.

[Dweebston]

It's on you, then. Star Trek was going to be bad in terms of beloved source material, but it wasn't bad as far as summer blockbusters went. The real comparison is showing up for a backyard barbecue your shady work colleague throws, knowing it's going to be a disaster, and he hands you a plate of premium brats on rolls, and despite knowing in your heart that it's no Christmas dinner and the brats really aren't too good for you, you enjoy yourself anyway. Because it could have been so, so much worse.

[Catatafish]

I may not agree with you completely on Abrams but that was damn well done.

[Pan Zagloba]

Please tell me that's not a quote, but a Hamster original!

Actually, if it's a quote, would like to know more.

[MJGreen]

If Star Trek is your Christmas dinner or your Anal Sluts XX, the problem is on your end. It's never been very good, and it certainly never had notable raw talent behind it. And if you saw Mission Impossible 3, you should have known what you were in for. Much of directing can be reduced to tricks, and it's rare for blockbuster directors to have natural talent that extends beyond those tricks. Simply being a good action movie director is praiseworthy, despite how 'easy' we think it looks when compared to weightier films.

Obviously, I'm running away now.

[Cytotoxic]

If Star Trek is your Christmas dinner or your Anal Sluts XX, the problem is on your end. It's never been very good,

THIS

[db]

So...perfect...glad they sent a poet!

[Rich]

"Hmmm... yousa point is well seen."

[MJGreen]

Netflix's Daredevil show was mentioned in the AM. I watched the first two episodes last night. While I was vaguely familiar of "the hot redhead on True Blood," this was my first watching something with Deborah Ann Woll.

Yowza.

[Episiarch]

Wait, Woll is on the new Daredevil?!?

(Goes immediately to Netflix)

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

I know. I was ambivalent until I heard that and immediately I decided I had to watch.

[Catatafish]

She is exceptional. Got through episode 3 and the show is pretty damn fantastic so far too.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I had to ignore the rent control / evil developer bullshit around episode 6 or so, but otherwise good.

[Catatafish]

I asked my brother (who finished the whole show in like three days) if I was bound for more Arrow-esque mewling and clumsy moralizing. He just told me on the whole I would be pleasantly surprised.

[NebulousFocus]

Arrow is a fun show, but the anti corporate shit is tired. See also Elementary and Continuum.

[Episiarch]

I have a friend who has watched some and loves it so far, I'll talk to him about it when we play tennis later. Unfortunately he is gay so no talking about Woll, not in any fun way at least.

[Catatafish]

You get Woll sideboob in the pilot, Epi.

[Episiarch]

She didn't show shit in True Blood, either. Every other chick was showing practically everything, and nothing from her. Though sideboob isn't much.

I'm so burned out on superhero garbage, but...Woll.

[Catatafish]

She's so hot that every once in a while I have to stop myself and realize that she's actually a pretty good actress to boot. And she was the only thing keeping me watching True Blood. Even with her I don't think I managed to continue past season 4.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

I watched the last couple seasons of True Blood and still don't know why.

Woll probably was the best actor on that show. All of the other actors are actually pretty terrible. I don't know why Anna Paquin has a career given that she's mediocre in everything I see her in, Bill Compton sounded like Foghorn Leghorn with a sinus infection, and everyone else was pretty much there just to flash their junk.

[Episiarch]

She's a fine actress, and definitely made True Blood that much more watchable (I enjoyed TB's campy over the topness, so I watched the whole thing, plus...so many hot chicks including Woll). I'd really like to see her in more stuff.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

I have to assume she had something in her contract saying 'no nudity.'

If she were worse looking the True Blood producers (being horrible perverts) probably would have passed because of that, but Woll clothed is better than 99.99% of women naked, so they went with it.

[Episiarch]

I'm pretty sure she had a no nudity contract. FUCKING CONTRACTS ARRGGHHHH

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

I just looked her up on Wikipedia and discovered the greatest tragedy I have ever heard of:

"Woll's boyfriend, EJ Scott, suffers from a condition, Choroideremia, which ultimately results in blindness"

What a waste!

[Episiarch]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Oh wait, fuck him, I can still see her.

[Catatafish]

Does the devil get to put another black mark next to my name when YOU say what I'm just thinking?

[cavalier973]

Why's it got to be a black mark, you racissst???

*puts yet ANOTHER black mark by Catafish's name*

[Catatafish]

Honestly, I'm pretty sure my "name" is just a scorch mark at this point in my life.

[Episiarch]

Totally.

[Dweebston]

Is Ann short for manface?

*flees*

[Episiarch]

Yeah you better run!

[The Late P Brooks]

A Michigan auto repair shop owner says he will refuse service to openly gay people, so be sure not to engage in acts of sodomy in his waiting area.

Hoping for a big payday, via Kickstarter?

[Tonio]

Quite possibly. Time will tell.

[The Late P Brooks]

This probably also includes cars that are totally gay.

I'm looking at you, Chrysler Sebring.
.
PROWLER. It's like the Village People indian chief of cars.
.
Rawrr!

[Enough About Palin]

"A Michigan auto repair shop owner says he will refuse service to openly gay people, so be sure not to engage in acts of sodomy in his waiting area."

I suspect he's hoping to get paid like Miracle Pizza did.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

If so, whose fault is that?

The SJWs have been waging a hate campaign against people like him, calling for laws to suppress their consciences.

If non-SJWs react against this by rallying in support of these businesses, then I say, GOOD!

[Enough About Palin]

Affixing blame is of no interest to me.

[Apatheist ?_??]

The pizza place said they would serve gay people, just not cater gay weddings. This guy is putting up a "no homos" sign and is a straight up bigot. It should be legal but I have far less sympathy for him.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Or in SJW terms, they're both equally bigoted.

[cavalier973]

Epic reation to the new Star Wars Trailer (the first one)

[Carl ?s the level]

I was contemplating whether to post that.

[cavalier973]

Really? I was furiously trying to figure out how to UNpost it...

[Dweebston]

Rich Evans is the breakout character of RLM.

[cavalier973]

I like him as Plinkett, but Mike does the voice much, much better.

[Dweebston]

True and true. Hopefully Mike reboots murderous Plinkett for the Force Awakens review.

[Carl ?s the level]

OHHH MYYY GAWWWWWWWWD!!!!!!!

[PapayaSF]

Now a world-exclusive investigation by The National ENQUIRER reveals that some of the presidential candidate's famously "deleted" emails are packed full of lesbian references and her lovers' names. The only name named in the article is Huma, though.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

Yeah, I'm not going to believe this until someone other than the Enquirer picks up on it.

[cavalier973]

They're actually code words for secret agents that were desperately trying to save the people at that...base...in that place...dang, I can't remember. Sean Hannity died of apoplexy over it, and there's some quote about "What does it matter, anymore".

Ugh, I'm bored. When are they coming out with the next Star Wars trailer?

[PapayaSF]

They were correct about John Edwards.

[Bill Dalasio]

And Jesse Jackson.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

They also had to apologize literally a year ago for claiming Phillip Seymour Hoffman had a gay lover.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Whatever happened to Mr. Hoffman, anyway?

[Pro Libertate]

Shit, right now the left would vote fifty times each if it became official than they could elect a female candidate who was also gay. What else could they possibly want from a presidential candidate?

[Tonio]

What else could they possibly want from a presidential candidate?

Srsly? Poor, differently-abled, woman of color...

[jesse.in.mb]

unwed mother of two?

[Pro Libertate]

Oh, I'm sure she can cough up some disabilities and maybe some mixed blood of some sort. This is a Clinton we're talking about.

[GILMORE]

I'd be thrilled if she coughed up blood

[PapayaSF]

Her health seems rather dicey. What are the odds of a stroke during a campaign appearance, or even a debate? She starts babbling incoherently and then keels over....

[GILMORE]

7 Times The National Enquirer Actually Broke a Real Story

I forgot that they sorta nailed Gary Hart and ruined his presidential bid (Ha ha!)

[Catatafish]

I think we were discussing earlier in the FATCA thread the ultimate desire to make all currency traceable.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....olish-cash

[Tonio]

Fortunately, there's gold and silver. I understand it's possible to stamp them out into tokens with fairly uniform weight results; could be used for trading if you had enough of them and several different sizes.

[PapayaSF]

How about 100 tons of silver rupees?

[Beautiful Bean Footage]

I totally thought that was gonna be a Zelda reference

[Zeb]

Someone comes out with that from time to time. I could see Singapore or some place like that doing it, but I don't see it happening in the US or world wide. Too much of the world runs on US $100 bills.

I can see why an economist would think it was a good idea. Most money is electronic already. And everyone carries phones and cards. In reality it's a pretty terrifying idea.

[Peachy rex]

There was an article in the Economist cooing over the idea a while back - stops tax evasion! Cuts down on petty crime & vice! etc. At no point did the author consider the notion that the feds knowing every fucking thing I do might be a downside to his brilliant idea.

[lap83]

I didn't see this posted already, sorry if it was, but new passages from the Wrinkle in Time have been discovered which shed more light on Madeleine L'Engle's political philosophy, and she sounds pretty libertarian.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-.....NewsSecond

In it, Meg has just made a narrow escape from Camazotz. As Meg's father massages her limbs, which are frozen from a jarring trip through space and time, she asks: "But Father, how did the Black Thing?how did it capture Camazotz?" Her father proceeds to lay out the political philosophy behind the book in much starker terms than is apparent in the final version.

He says that yes, totalitarianism can lead to this kind of evil. (The author calls out examples by name, including Hitler, Mussolini and Khrushchev.) But it can also happen in a democracy that places too much value on security, Mr. Murry says. "Security is a most seductive thing," he tells his daughter. "I've come to the conclusion that it's the greatest evil there is."

Ms. Voiklis said she wanted readers to know the book wasn't a simple allegory of communism. Instead, it's about the risk of any country?including a democracy?placing too much value on security. The tension between safety and personal freedom is an idea that resonates in today's politics.

[Stormy Dragon]

Rubio's church teaches that homosexuals are only gay because they're possessed by demons:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....63336.html

[jesse.in.mb]

HOMODEMONS!

[Heroic Mulatto]

C'mon, jesse. You can't just go and post that without an Alexyss "Vagina Power" Tylor link!

[jesse.in.mb]

This one is also quite fun.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Consider yourself warned.

[jesse.in.mb]

Also, most of the "shocking" pull quotes were pretty mundane. I do have a problem with

"The scientific method actually teaches that the Bible is science because it is based on observable evidence, and that evolution is actually blind faith because it is not based on observable evidence. Let me say that again. Evolution is not based on observable evidence. Creation is based on observable evidence."

I worked with a young earth creationist middle school science teacher who made his students recite a "This I know to be true" thing at graduation that included a lot of hooey about dinosaurs and man coexisting. His "evidence" didn't pass the laugh test, nor did his irrefutable proof that paleontologists and geologists were lying.

[Zeb]

That's an odd notion of what "observable evidence" means.

I prefer the young earth creationists who just say that God put the dinosaur fossils there to fuck with us (or to confound the wise, or whatever it is).

[jesse.in.mb]

Teach the controversy, Zeb!

[John Titor]

I have video evidence!

[Stormy Dragon]

I open my Bible and observed what it says there. That counds as observable eivdence, right?

[Stormy Dragon]

Also, I would like to note that the church makes all its employees promise, in writing, to act in accordance with the "all homosexuals should be killed" verse that the usual suspects keep assuring us Christians don't actually want to enforce anymore.

[PapayaSF]

Get back to us when organized groups of Christians start killing gays.

[jesse.in.mb]

Seriously, Stormy dehumanizing rhetoric about a minority group never leads to sudden, deadly violence against them in Christian societies. Get you head on straight.

[PapayaSF]

Put your straw man away, Jesse. Of course "dehumanizing rhetoric" can do that. That's not the issue.

Nor is Cytotoxic refuting my point by providing a counter-example. Though perhaps I should have been less flip and added qualifications. Would have spoiled it as a quip, though.

I thought Stormy was comparing Christianity and Islam regarding gays. Yes, Cytotoxic, there are one or two groups of Christians in some backwater or jungle persecuting gays, but add up all of that and it's still small potatoes compared to the widespread, on-going, persecution of gays in Muslim areas of the world. "But Christians do it, too!" and "But what about the Central African Republic?" are weak arguments when one side has major violent examples every week, and the other side has some rare and obscure examples that you really have to look for.

[jesse.in.mb]

That's not the issue.

Neither were Muslims and you still made it about them.

Look, I don't especially care what nuttiness goes on in Cruz's church. It's at most an interesting footnote. Rev. Jeremiah Wright's sermons were a BIG DEAL to the Fox News set when Obama was campaigning and I'm guessing somebody is hoping to score that kind of story this time around.

What's aggravating about your rare and obscure comments is that some of the nuttiest folks in the American religious right went to Africa to preach about the homosexual agenda where they took "dehumanizing rhetoric" that we tune out in the US and managed to inflame countries to pass draconian laws. When it still looked like Uganda was going to pass what was colloquially called the "Kill the Gays Bill" including capital punishment, noted asshole Scott Lively essentially dropped an "oops, didn't mean for it to go that far."

Lively can notably also claim influence with the Russian legislator that pushed the gay propaganda law in Russia, which has been passed in ever more harsh forms as it moves south and east through the former Soviet Bloc.

[Stormy Dragon]

I thought Stormy was comparing Christianity and Islam regarding gays. Yes, Cytotoxic, there are one or two groups of Christians in some backwater or jungle persecuting gays, but add up all of that and it's still small potatoes compared to the widespread, on-going, persecution of gays in Muslim areas of the world.

And if one of the two major parties was running on a platform that we were founded as a muslim nation and it's time to bring sharia back into the public square, I'd be complaining about that too.

[Cytotoxic]

Look up 'anti-balakas' in Chad. See also evangelist/orthodox Christian contributions to criminalizing homosexuality in Africa and Russia.

[Cytotoxic]

Oops that should be CAR not Chad.

[Juice]

Uganda

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Stop it. I already have a headache.

[Limpee Wiltstock]

Is there some alternative theory that I've never heard of?

[Limpee Wiltstock]

"A Michigan auto repair shop owner says he will refuse service to openly gay people, so be sure not to engage in acts of sodomy in his waiting area."

Or it could be he is openly refusing to service "gay people". Like a lot of people who used to refuse to openly service "gay people", but did so closedly quite readily.

[maleva desaineva]

I do not agree with Troy Kelly says....its fax dollar.

[Tonio]

Very popular with certain women.

[GILMORE]

"what about the Forester?"

Its a Lumberjack and its OK

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

My wife still hasn't forgiven me for buying her one. I loved it.

[Zeb]

My wife has one of those. But she inherited it from her mother, who was gay, so all is right in the world.

[lap83]

someone's not getting messed with on the playground

[Tonio]

Well-played, Gilmore.