Gun Control

ATF Tries to Ban Common Rifle Ammo As "Armor-Piercing" Despite Its Own Statutory Definition

Gun rights community sees a disturbing ongoing crackdown on common ammo availability via ATF fiat.

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Frank Miniter at Forbes' website has a good summation of a controversial new move by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms to ban further production and sale of some very common rifle ammo, by classifying it as "armor-piercing," something that, by statutory definition at least, it is not.

NRA-ILA

Excerpts:

The ATF says it wants to ban M855 ball ammunition, a .223 (or 5.56 mm) rifle bullet that has been used by American citizens for decades. The ATF says it wants to ban this popular bullet because it is "armor piercing."

The law at the basis of this debate is the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). As amended, the GCA prohibits the import, manufacture and distribution of "armor piercing ammunition" as defined by a few terms Attorney General Eric Holder's Department of Justice (DOJ) is attempting to broaden.

The definition for what constitutes "armor piercing" reads: "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely … from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium."

Now, to be as nitpicky as the law, the M855 ball ammunition the ATF wants to ban as "armor piercing" doesn't have a core made of the metals listed in what legally makes a bullet "armor piercing." The M855 actually has a lead core with a steel tip. Also, the M855 is traditionally a rifle cartridge and the ban only covers handgun ammunition. The DOJ argues this doesn't stop them because the law stipulates they can ban a bullet that "may be used in a handgun." And, after all, any cartridge may be used in a handgun.

The ATF allows a "sporting exemption" for certain ammo that would otherwise be legally considered armor-piercing, but they claim because now weapons they consider more handgun than rifle can or are using the same ammo, that they are withdrawing that exemption for the M855.

ATF acknowledges so many citizens who thought they were being law-abiding have this ammo, so mere possession will not be illegal going forward if this becomes settled policy, but making, importing, or selling it will be verboten. (GunsSavesLives website calls the ammo "arguably" the second most popular for AR-15s in the U.S.)

The NRA's action page about these new regs, which are still open for public comment; the NRA tells you exactly how to make your voice heard in the process by March 16.

Bob Owens at the Bearing Arms site explains in further detail why M855 ammo is not, by ATF's own definition, bannable as "armor-piercing," mostly because it is mostly made of lead. Because of this, a careful reader could see the ATF's new proposed "framework" for armor-piercing to be directly contradicting itself. On page one, it says:

It is important to note that only projectiles that meet the statutory definition of "armor piercing" – i.e., those made out of the specific listed materials that may be used in a handgun – are subject to the statutory restrictions. As a result, manufacturers are, and will continue to be, free to manufacture projectiles from non-restricted materials, completely independent of the application of this framework or any exemptions.

Yet later, even though that seems to exclude M855s made mostly of lead, the directive declares:

Some ammunition that was previously exempted as "primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes," specifically 5.56mm constituent projectiles of SS109 and M855 cartridges, will again be regulated as "armor piercing ammunition." Except as provided by law, no person may manufacture or import such ammunition, and manufacturers or importers may not sell or deliver such ammunition. 

Armor-piercing bullets are thus, by statutory definition, not made of lead, and ATF wants to control them more stringently moving forward, even ones they just want to declare armor-piercing despite being made of lead. At the same time, lead ammo is also a target of government bans on the state level. Hmm. Hard to use those guns without readily available ammunition.

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  1. They will never stop. It will always be something. Maybe the Republicans can HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….

    1. Say what you will, but Repubs are actually BETTER on this ONE issue than the dems…

      1. Whatever. Good cop, bad cop.

        1. Took you long enough to fucking reply!

    2. Just submit. or they will give you a frontal lobotomy.

      War is peace.

  2. Democrats don’t know what science is, exhibit 327,000,000.

    They tweeted ‘I trust scientists, I’m a Democrat, retweet if you agree.’

    Of course, mindlessly ‘trusting’ scientists without regard for what the scientist is saying is actually the exact opposite of science since you’re going based on trust and belief rather than verified evidence.

    Watching Democrats turn lab coats and beakers into religious icons has been a very enlightening experience.

    1. Dude, I’ve been watching it for years as Dem retards on my Facebook feed link constantly to I Fucking Love Science. IFLScience has to be the smuggest, stupidest “science” site on the planet. And they can’t get enough of it.

      1. They’re a classic cargo cult. It has all the signs. They mindlessly worship and trust various signs of civilization and scientific progress without actually understanding any of them.

        They claim to love science, for example, but what country has been the most important nation on Earth in terms of overall scientific and technological progress? I think the answer is obviously America, and yet they do everything they can to turn us into Europe, a continent that has done vastly less to advance scientific and technological knowledge over the last 100 years than the United States.

        They don’t comprehend that individuality and capitalism are major driving forces behind scientific progress and that their anti-individualistic and anti-capitalistic beliefs would actually retard scientific advancement by a) eliminating monetary incentives and b) making people less innovative and creative.

        They therefore mindlessly worship the end result (SCIENCE!) while not being bright enough to understand what went into creating that end result. Therefore, it is really no different than a cargo cultist worshiping a bottle of Coca Cola that fell from an airplane, the inputs of which he could not comprehend.

        1. Well, they’re also animists. Which is similar to what you say. They worship totems; symbols of the things they are told are good. Those totems hold a supernatural power which makes things good, and makes the worshipers of the totems, like, smart and stuff.

        2. I’m fuckin drunk. Fuck Bill ATES

        3. The Gods Must be Crazy was such a great movie.

          1. It really was. One of my favourites.

      2. It’s “I fucking love pretty pictures of nature”. Which by itself is fine. Who doesn’t like cool pictures like that?

        But that people think that cool pictures are science is rather sad. Do they imagine that astronomers spend their days looking at pretty false-color pictures of planets and nebulae and stuff?

        I think a lot of people just don’t really understand what science is beyond some very vague ideas.

        1. They think it’s the sole repository of all objective truth, rather than simply a continually ongoing process by which people sort through evidence, debate its meaning, and try to reconcile it with what happens in the real world.

          They suck at math too, as evidenced by their constant inability to comprehend statistics.

          1. They suck at math too, as evidenced by their constant inability to comprehend statistics.

            Not to mention basic economic concepts.

        2. “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.

      3. I’ve also noticed many things that they say that aren’t quite right, or are outright wrong.

    2. Nullius in verba.

      That’s a real scientist’s motto …
      with is the polar opposite of this moron’s.

    3. Anytime politics and science are married living hell for many humans is certain to follow.

  3. Hmm. Hard to use those guns without readily available ammunition.

    Yeah, and I see you’ve garnered what the next front from the BAN BONER crowd will be (and has been brewing for a while): expansive ammo bans. Because this is an absolutely blatant attempt to shoehorn some gun control in where they have otherwise abjectly failed. They’re trying to ban some of the most popular ammo for the most popular rifles in the country, out of the blue, for absolutely no reason. Hmm…I wonder if the lame duck president has told them to just executive fiat some gun control. Yes, I wonder.

    (No I don’t, I know he did.)

    1. I bought an AR platform because I figured being a military style/caliber, parts/ammo would always be plentiful and cheap. If this isn’t a bag over the head punch in the face I don’t know what is.

      1. No, seriously, this could not be more blatant. Even a ban on 7.62×39 would be less blatant. This ammo is the ammo for all AR-15 variants (which are mega-popular), which is an American design (well…Eugene Stoner was Candian, but whatever, he made it for the US), with an American based ammo (.223 Remington), that is also a standard NATO caliber in its 5.56×45 form.

        You literally probably could not pick a more popular ammo other than .22LR. And they are going to ban it for…REASONS? I mean you cannot get more blatant. This isn’t just a back door gun control attempt. It’s also a massive “fuck you”.

        1. I don’t know if you read redmans theory that this is a push from BATF to ban non-lead core rounds as armor piecing and then the EPA pushes for banning lead rounds for environmental reason, thus creating a de facto ammunition ban. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

          1. I posted that “two-pronged” attack courtesy of the Kevin Williamson article in NRO a week ago.

            I accept your hat tip.

            1. Sorry. I remembered the theory, forgot the author.

              1. I understand you are bitter about our previous chess match…

          2. At this point I wouldn’t put anything past the Obama administration and politicians and bureaucrats in general. Not only are they thieving, conniving scum, they hate hate hate being stymied by the voters (or really anything), because they know they are better than us and can’t stand it when the peons won’t let them do something they want to do (for whatever reasons).

            I mean, if Fast and Furious didn’t convince you (not *you* you) that the ATF and the administration are willing to do just about anything, no matter how illegal and absurd, to enact more gun control, then I don’t know what will.

          3. Existing statutory language specifically prohibits EPA from restricting lead ammunition. One of the few situations where the people who created these agencies recognized the potential for abuse.

            However, they did shut down the last lead-smelting plant in the US last year using atmospheric emission regs as cover. All the lead being produced in the US now comes from secondary sources like spent car batteries.

            1. Thank you, Tulpa. This was actually quite helpful. I sincerely appreciate it, and I am off to read more about it now.

              I like the new you.

            2. Existing statutory language specifically prohibits EPA from restricting lead ammunition.

              That’s cute that you think the feds give a rat’s ass about the law.

              Wait, did I say “cute”? I meant “fucked up”.

              1. Some of the courts do, though. We aren’t quite to the point where laws are completely ignored. I’m sure the ATF and EPA don’t give a shit, but someone well. Especially as a whole lot of people vote on gun issues.

            3. the EPA may be restricted by California has already banned lead for hunting ammunition I believe it takes full effect on 2019. BTW they used a lie created by government scientist to get the ban in place.

        2. Epi, I think you have Stoner confused with Garand. Garand was from Quebec.

          1. Yes, you are right. My bad.

            1. Epi is a confused Stoner.

      2. That logic got turned on its head after Sandy Hook.

        There were lots of “prepping experts” who said you should have a 22 LR firearm because ammo will always be widely available, even after a civilization collapse. Seems silly now, doesn’t it?

        1. Yeah I can get 5.56 easy, still can’t CCI MINI-MAG, for the life of me.

          1. Indeed. For a while during spring and summer 2013, the guys with handguns in .32 ACP or .38 Super were laughing it up at everyone else’s expense. Sometimes it pays to have an oddball caliber.

            1. This is why I keep many guns of many calibers in an attempt to cover my bases.

              1. +1000 Shotgun. IMO.

                1. +1001 w/ rock salt
                  +1002 w/ 18 dimes
                  Hello Bob! (Bang!) Goodbye Bob! Best dollar eighty I ever spent.
                  – William H. Bonney

      3. Just like Bill Gates. I liked Windows XP. But he wants more money so I have to update to a more inferior program. I hates Bill Gates.

    2. Recent rash of armor piercings to prompt this (still stupid and inappropriate) action? No, I didn’t think so. Fuck off, Slavers….

    3. Law says nothing about hand-loading ammo.

      “Officer, this ammo I have is grandfathered…”

      1. They will get around to you later.

  4. Hat tip for Red?

    1. Meh.

      I only pushed it hard for like, what, two days?

      I also didn’t email the info to Reason.

    1. Patrick Buono of Portland didn’t dispute using his cellphone to take upskirt photos on Jan. 3 at the store in suburban Beaverton….

      Where else was this story going to occur but Beaverton?

        1. Intercourse, PA.

  5. The definition for what constitutes “armor piercing” reads: “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely ? from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.

    Were DU handgun rounds ever a thing?

    1. Did you not see quantum of solice? If not not, don’t.

        1. ..b-b-but Olga!

    2. No, but neither are internet slow lanes (which are perfectly legal *now*) but that’s not going to stop a pol who’s got a solution in need of a problem.

  6. The artistry of it is that, regardless of how ridiculous the reasoning, it’s likely impossible to get this overturned by the courts without being prosecuted for selling such ammo (and risking federal prison).

    Perhaps a possessor of the ammo could claim that it constitutes a taking under the 5th, but that’s a stretch. Plus he’d be opening himself up to be prosecuted for possession.

    1. FTA: ATF acknowledges so many citizens who thought they were being law-abiding have this ammo, so mere possession will not be illegal going forward if this becomes settled policy, but making, importing, or selling it will be verboten.

      1. A policy they can change at any time.

        Insert Darth Vader/Lando Calrissian exchange.

  7. “What’s the point of havin’ the keys to the [ATF] if you can’t ban somethin’ every once in a while”.

    —-Barack Obama (all the time)

  8. Wasn’t there a pissing match about this in the comments last week? Someone is missing a hat tip. I should care enough to check for you, Doherty. But I don’t.

    1. Redmans something. I mention it up thread but can’t remember his full handle.

      1. Oh. I should hat tip your earlier mention of it. But, etc etc.

        1. That would be silly, but do it anyways.
          *waits impatiently for BS hat tip*

    2. It was me who first brought it up.

      db and I had it out over the definition of what constitutes “ball” ammunition. Several people were also grossly mistaken over the law that was actually being cited to ban the ammunition (specifically the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act of 1986, which modified GCA ’68).

  9. Buy guns. Buy ammo. Buy magazines. Wait for Shreek, Tony and Tulpa to be taken away and executed. But resist when they come for you. Who knows? You might be pleasantly surprised!

  10. Brian – you need to go read the GCA-68. The material of the core is not the *only* criteria for AP. Thickness of the jacket material is another, alternative criteria.

    The criteria are:

    1) It has to be a round useable in a pistol. In the past the ATF has not stretched it to ‘well, *any* round can be used in a pistol’ but have jumped when pistols using previously rifle only rounds became available (such as 7.62 WP ‘pistols’). That’s what’s triggered this – 5.56 mm pistols are now widely available and its given the ATF the legal cover they’ve been looking for.

    2) The ammo has to have a core made from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.”

    OR

    3) The jacket is some above some ratio of thickness (depending on caliber).

    So, banning of M855 ball is going to fail on the core (except there are M855 rounds made with steel core – indeed, there are 5.56 rounds in general that have steel cores (still not actually AP ammo by the *military’s* definition though)) composition, but if the jacket around the lead core is too thick then that makes it AP (per the legal definition.

    Keep in mind that this is all about *definitions*. 5.56 ball can be non-AP in a rifle and AP in a pistol simply because the *definitions* of AP are different in the two cases.

    Stupid yes, but lawyers have founded a lucrative industry on splitting just such hairs.

    1. And – this isn’t exactly the first time this exact situation has come up either.

      http://www.thegunzone.com/762×39.html

      We banned the importation of steel-core 7.63×39 in 1994 using the *exact same legal logic*.

    2. Fortunately, for the projectile to be considered armor piercing, it must be larger than 22 caliber, which M855 is not. I don’t believe M855 would fail the copper jacket thickness test either, though. It really fails all tests of armor piercing by the ATF’s own definition.

    3. 5.56 pistols have been available for a long time, and predate the AP pistol ammo law. See Bushmaster Arm Pistol.

      The law was never meant to cover rifle ammo, even if used in a pistol.

  11. Banning .223 might set some people off. If they did that it’s pretty clear they’re banning guns no matter what the Constitution says.

  12. I didn’t realize there was a “sporting purposes” exception to any right. Also, it appears that the plain language of a clearly unconstitutional law directly contradicts a bureaucratic edict. Observe:

    “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely ? from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.”

    All the while they are after rifle ammo. Totalitarians cannot even follow their own rules.

    1. *sigh*

      Its not just a rifle round anymore.

      http://www.sigsauer.com/Catalo…..istol.aspx

      http://www.rockriverarms.com/i…..ory_id=231

      They are a very popular type of pistol that’s come on the market 6ish years or so ago.

      1. I am aware of the existence of rifle-pistols and was speaking rhetorically. The problem seems to be that there is no concrete definition for any certain type of firearm (as if it should be relevant) because any imaginative mind can tweak any feature, contradicting the accepted definition of a given firearm. For instance, “rifle” originally meant a firearm with a grooved barrel.

        1. It’s almost like the weapon is a committed or determined mind and the will to use it rather than an actual hunk of steel…

      2. I remember when they first started showing up. I really don’t get the AR pistol myself, but to each their own. The Thompson/center line of rifle cartridges in pistol frames makes more sense to me for hiking into rough terrain to hunt large game.

        1. Speaking of sig I really wanted the mpx-c, but I think ATF put the kibosh on it.

      3. That’s a “pistol”, but it’s not a handgun.

        1. THIS. Just because you can shoot something one-handed, doesn’t not automatically make something a handgun.

          Exhibit t.2.

      4. It seems absurd to call the Sig P556 a pistol when it weighs 6.3 pounds unloaded, the same weight as an M4A1 carbine, and has on overall length of 20.5 inches.

      5. In the real world, M855 is absolutely rifle ammo. What the ATF has defined as an AR pistol is just a AR15 without a butt stock. The laws on guns are really stupid.

      6. And if you’re not convinced, may i point out the part where the rule says, “constructed ENTIRELY…from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.”

        Entirely

        M855 has a mostly lead core. A small steel tip is only meant to stabilize the round at the max effective range. A problem the military had with M193. An, in reality, the ATF is doing this under the guise of officer safety, but officers wear armor designed to defeat handguns, not rifles, so ANY 5.56 round will penetrate, steel tip or not.

      7. Bushmaster Arm Pistol, chambered in 5.56, manufactured from 1977 until the 1990’s.

        These have been around, and continuously available through commercial channels for longer than the AP pistol ammo law.

        1. By “these”, I mean pistols chambered in 5.56/.223, not just the specific pistol I mentioned.

    1. The only part I understood was when she said Susie Cake. I love their stuff.

  13. Sweden changing the names of birds because their names kind of sound racist.

    When I say ‘kind of sound racist’ I don’t even mean that the words actually are racist, I mean they’re homophones of racist words. For example:

    The insult “caffer,” which was used by white against blacks in South Africa, also resembled a Swedish bird species called “kaffer.”

    So the words are completely different, but the name has to be changed because it sounds like a racial slur used on another continent.

    This is amazing.

    1. Also, isn’t it ‘kaffir’?

      1. Ah, apparently ‘caffer’ is an obsolete spelling of the modern ‘kaffir’.

        1. As a result, several of them have now been changed: “negro” bird, for instance, will now be called “black” bird. “

          Ahem….”Bird of Color”, please.

          1. Ahem….”Swedish Afro-American bird” or is that “Afro-American Swedish bird”, please.

      2. Also, isn’t it Arabic for “a subset of society who have read, understood and rejected the message of the Qur’an”?

    2. Animists, dude. Animists. It keeps coming up in everything they do. They are basically primitives who must appease the monkey gods or something.

      “Orlando, you can’t be a Pilgrim. The Pilgrims had snowy white skin to match their pure Christian souls. They didn’t sacrifice coconuts to their monkey gods.”

    3. I’m a bit surprised that “racially mixed” bees with a high propensity for violence are widely referred to as “Africanized” w/o any controversy.

      But then I live in a city where the TV weather’s reference to “black ice” became a significant racial issue a few years back.

      1. I’m a bit surprised that “racially mixed” bees with a high propensity for violence are widely referred to as “Africanized” w/o any controversy.

        My prog cousin actually has mentioned that calling killer bees “Africanized” is racist.

        I pointed out that only somebody who sees “African” as synonymous with “violent” would actually come to that conclusion. She lost her shit.

        Honestly, if it weren’t for blood I’d have cut ties with her years ago, especially after her post-Newtown stunt Christmas 2012. It’s the only time I’ve seriously considered physical violence as a result of a verbal confrontation.

        1. After Sandy Hook, I purged a bunch of my fb “friends” and only log-in about once every 2 months. I avoid political stuff on there but don’t take too kindly to being called a “murderer” by casual acquaintances and people I haven’t seen for 25 years.

        2. My prog cousin actually has mentioned that calling killer bees “Africanized” is racist.

          Technically, it’s speciesist.

          The African Bee is a different species than the Western (and other) Honeybees.

          #IFLScience

    4. That’s very niggardly of them.

      1. True, but it does have a certain cromulance about it.

    5. “niggardly”

  14. The galaxies should realize that no planet should come without bullet printers for its citizens. No government seems intent on avoiding conflict with its citizens ever since the beginning of humans in the universe.

  15. “Greece Struggles to Get Citizens to Pay Their Taxes”
    […]
    “At the end of 2014, Greeks owed their government about ?76 billion ($86 billion) in unpaid taxes accrued over decades; the government says only ?9 billion of that can be recovered, with most of the rest lost to insolvency.
    Billions more in taxes are owed on never-reported revenue from Greece’s vast underground economy, which was estimated before the crisis to equal more than a quarter of the country’s gross domestic product.
    […]
    “Greeks consider taxes as theft,” said Aristides Hatzis, an associate professor of law and economics at the University of Athens. “Normally taxes are considered the price you have to pay for a just state, but this is not accepted by the Greek mentality.””
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/gr…..NewsSecond

    So the Greeks are Tony-crazy about wanting free shit, but Sevo-crazy about not paying taxes?
    “Hypocrisy” is Greek, isn’t it?

    1. Americans do everything they can to avoid taxes too… some legal things, and some illegal. What do you think the compliance rate is for paying use tax on online orders?

      1. I’m sure we do, but according to that article, the Greeks are the envy of the world in not paying.
        The GOVT tells them not to, for pete’s sake!

      2. Now that Amazon is taking it out, much higher.

        1. Yep. My compliance went from 0% to 100%

        2. I stopped purchasing from Amazon. I suppose I would if they had the best price by far or were the only vendor with the product but they almost never are.

          Collecting sales tax wasn’t the final straw. Lobbying to force their smaller competitors to collect was. Fuck Amazon.

        3. When did that start? I’m looking over my recent Amazon orders… mostly Kindle books but also a delivery, since 1/1 – no tax on any of it.

          1. Rhywun|2.25.15 @ 11:00PM|#
            “When did that start?”

            In CA more than a year ago. I was pissed that Amazon caved, but then it became obvious that they were gonna ‘establish presence’ with warehouses in CA which left them no option.
            The upside is quicker delivery.

            1. Could be I usually only buy Kindle stuff or 3rd party seller stuff from them? I can’t remember the last time I bought a physical item directly from Amazon.

              1. Amazon doesn’t collect from NY residents. They are competing with the in-state e-retailers who have to but don’t collect outside the state.

  16. OT: The cost of nerd rage

    http://tinyurl.com/p9qjpyd

    A 19 Year-Old American, suspected of conducting dangerous hoax police calls across the country, was arrested in Las Vegas on Thursday.

    Brandon Wilson, known as “Famed God” in some online communities, faces up to five years in jail if found guilty. It is alleged that, in July last year, he made a bogus call to Chicago police that convinced the force to raid a house in Illinois.

    1. Charge that piece of shit with attempted murder.

      1. Better yet, kill him.

      2. Police States have nice benefits, enjoy instead of raging.

        What you’re saying is, pretty good chance the police state will accidentally murder an innocent in their own home.

        Glad you’re around with your justice minded comments.

    2. The process involves obtaining someone’s home address (usually via their IP address)

      Not how it works.

    1. How do you feel about Katherine Timpfs?

  17. And:
    “Oil slump threatens easy life of affluent Norwegians”
    […]
    “The average Norwegian has just gotten too much. We have a welfare economy and an expectation from youth, who expect wealth to come down from heaven,” Sunde said. “When we come down to periods like this, it comes down to good old values of working hard and competing. A country like Norway needs to go through that.””
    http://www.denverpost.com/nati…..norwegians

    Seems some Norhovians are more realistic than commie-kid.

    1. All of the hard working Norwegians are already in the U.S. Myself, for example.

      1. Prolly true of a lot of welfare-state populations; why stay where your work is not rewarded?

        1. Scotland used to be full of industrious people too. Now, it’s just a white ghetto.

          1. Wife and I were there not long after the vote. Trout streams, golf courses, old castles, ‘public housing’ by the bushel and no industry easily visible.
            The drive into Edinburgh from the south ends up on a 30-mile stretch of two-lane that reminds me of Highway 20 outside of Nevada City; into the ‘capital’ of what would have been that ‘nation’.
            WIH they presumed to be better off without the limey largess is a mystery to me.

            1. Moocherism is a disease of the soul.

  18. Mega fuckin hyper Crunch porno. I’ve heard that a secret Nasa base on Mars found some wandering poor Martians and grilled those fucks and dehydrated their skeletal structures over a small flame. In the dead of a Mars night any sort of crunch is magnified by several cocoa powers.

  19. If I was Jesus I would have saved all my followers from before time and until now… FUCKING JESUS that bitch is chewing shit in my ear….

    I would have said, ” GOD you are a fucking asshole father… I refuse to let all these poor shit get fucked up and all…”

    My earphones have a spanish mouth eating a binaural dick.

    1. My point is … if I was jesus I would have said fuck you god and saved all those followers from before and after time…

      Man, get fukin stoned and drunk throw some fucking phones on your fucking head and post on some shit with massive crunch going on… super weird sexy and I do fell as if my limbs are being chewed on and I’m not even trippiing at this point

  20. So get set… grab a few shrooms… get into it… tingle fluent… feel the lcd lights on your skin and float on the floor..sculpt ligaments… Don’t take the phones off… lay on the floor and grab onto the fucking tile… you wont die… I’ve been there and did not… get lost in the

    1. diminishing fog, Perception is in an octave higher or lower, but the melody is the same.

      Giggle at the novelty of the cover.

  21. feel the trip… your pilot is lying under the kitchen table but you can reach out and grab his hands and through the vapor of the floor and the FUCKING dog yapping you will find that sweet human solace… give the trip time…

  22. Sound is an echo of time and time pulsates.. you feel your heart clink like ice in a glass and your body shimmers like a rainbow on the ice frost of an old time and all the crystals seem to glow like a deep and etherial blok. Psilocybin trip bus… Be very carful with this.

  23. Gun owners have thwarted Obama repeatedly. Do you think he’s the kind of guy to let anyone who fucks with him go unfucked with? Fuck no, he’s a gigantic asshole and he’ll have his revenge however he can get it.

    1. Yes. There is nothing power hungry scum hate more, once they gain some power, is someone successfully resisting them or ignoring their power. They hate it. It drives them nuts. So they will usually go far beyond what a normal person would do to get back at those who resisted them. Because they’re that petty.

  24. The existence of the ATF is exhibit (A) as to why I have never had any patience with attempts to rehabilitate Nixon. The man’s one good trait was that he caused the Radical Left to foam at the mouth; otherwise he was a soft left idiot on domestic policy.

    The ATF has no legitimate reason for existing. Its agents and panjandrums should be given three days to get out of the country, and then Congress should issue hunting licenses.

    Of course, I feel that way about half of the bureaucracy.

    1. The ATf equals the grave of liberty..

    2. Nixon only presided over adding the “e” for explosives and the separation of the ATF from the IRS. He wasn’t yet president when the GCA of 1968 was signed.

      Nixon sucked plenty hard on the domestic front as it is, w/o attributing to him everything his predecessors did too.

    3. Well opening up China too, but yeah Carter arguably had better domestic policy.

  25. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0gyqsPdWFE
    hallugication is way fukin worse… the real monster is fukin real life not a fucking dumbass nightmare…m onsters and slivers and the twisted walls … nah…

    live alternait reality and the monsters are fucking kittens

  26. “You wingnuts! no one’s ‘coming to take your guns’! paranoids! lol”

    /meanwhile they’re banning all common ammo, banning transporting a weapon, closing firing ranges, prosecuting people severely even though they have CCW permits but in the wrong location… etc.

    1. Contrary to popular media opinion neither the NRA nor gun owners have ever alleged that President Obama was going to “take our guns away.”

      We predicted he would try. There’s a difference.

      1. Who said anything about O? Of course they never alleged that, since they knew he’d retain deniability.

    2. Don’t forget the Operation Chokepoint stuff, making financial transactions difficult for legal businesses they don’t like.

  27. If a fucking great white is swimmin through your fuckig carpet its probably a fucking great idea to get onto the fucking desk…

    1. Grab the harpoon, man! The harpoon!!!!111!!!1!1

    2. its probably a fucking great idea to get onto the fucking desk…

      Provided your desk floats.

  28. I have crates of Lake City M855 in the garage. Come and get them.

    1. Okay. Be right over.
      (Man what a nice guy. Giving away ammo)

      1. Beware: he has attack children.

        1. That is a concern since I am uncomfortable around children, but…..free ammo dude.

          1. You only need to be afraid of one of my kids. He’s fierce.

            I could wait on my porch with a shotgun. Or, I could give him a bag of jelly beans and turn him loose. Same difference.

    2. Must take a while trying to shoot them all through a 5rd “sport carbine” or whatever else the Golden Bear State permits to it’s subjects to own in .223.

      1. Thankfully, anti-gun people know jack shit about guns. So they left some gaping holes in the laws they wrote.

  29. Turn this shit upyou fuckin trippers… this crazy bitch is trip connecting on the youtubes.. for alien bros… I just want her fucking hands on my alien stallion….

  30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa0s8Oaog4c

    if you trip on the fucking crunch shit will fucking crunch your shit up you fucking bros..

  31. Crunchtastic and whispers what the motherfukin fuckadoo

  32. Bitch eats that fukin cereal like a fuckin volcano of latent dinohorrors and their KRUNCH! munch! Scrunch! UNCH UNCH bonaCHE!!

  33. The definition for what constitutes “armor piercing” reads: “[a projectile] or [projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely ? from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium].”

    Brackets added. So, a proper reading of the definition shows clearly that *any projectile* is “armor piercing”.

    Just a matter of time, dudes. 8-(

    1. My fucking hardon can pierce a fucking armor, bro. So american hardons will be illegal cuz this muscle can penetrate tanks… seems counterproduktive..

  34. American hard dicks are illegal because they shoot fucking liberty missiles!!! GOD FUCKING save the world.

  35. america is confused…..and the citizens are tired… and I just get fucking hammered and fucking super high and I trip for nasa because I can travil into the various galazies and seek those fucking damn reclusiv fucking whore aliena.

  36. So Cal, Cal Mid Coast folks; request for info:
    I can divert a trip such as to take the Soda Road through the Carrizo Plain east of Santa Maria.
    It looks like it would be interesting as an anomaly placed between the coastal areas and the central valley.
    Any comments?

    1. High speed rail, yo.

      Also, I’ll be up in SF late May and would like to grab a drink and maybe roofie you.

      1. LD,
        Nothing personal; I’m sort of private. But if we can grab a lunch, I’m not leaving town.

        1. BTW, WIH is “roofie”?

          1. He was trying to be clever funny. Kids these days.

            He was asking you out for a drink with the possibility of drugging you for (non-consensual) sex purposes.

        2. Only kidding about the roofie, Sevo, just trying to meet other like-minded Reasonoids in SF.

          1. Coffee, yo. It’s less threatening and just as easy to mix rohypnol into.

            1. Coffee…. less…..threatening….just…..as…..easy…..

              Got it.

              /closes notebook

            2. Jesse, somehow I knew you’d have this covered!

          2. OK, but what’s the reference?
            I’m not so far out of the loop that a ‘selfie’ is a mystery, but “roofie” goes right over my head.

            1. It’s just a thing kids do these days, like a selfie, but for roofs. It’s totally safe. You’ll have fun. Don’t worry. SHUT UP PLAYA

              1. Speaking of roofies, I fixed you a drink, Warty.

                1. Ah, nice warm, nonthreatening coffee.

            2. I’ll be likely staying in Cow Hollow. The corner market there has top notch roofies.

              1. Sorry, Warty. I didn’t see your warning until it was too late.

                Your pro-rape stance is noted.

                1. Your pro-rape stance is noted.

                  …are you new here?

      2. Hey Los Doyers, drop me a line (my handle @gmail) if you want to include me. (And other locals: I still have the list from our meet-up with Nick Gillespie in July.) And I’ve been thinking we should do it again.

    2. I’m a bit biased because I love geology. If I had the chance, I would do it, and walk the San Andreas. Rather, I will one day when I have the time.

      1. I walked the southern branch (mission creek) of the San Andreas last year. It’s breathtaking. I’m doing it again this April.

      2. Yeah, the geology is the reason I’d do so; looks like ‘basin and range’.
        Do you know which side of the plain is defined by the fault? The Soda Lake Road runs up the west.

        1. Soda Lake Road is practically on top of the fault at the south end of the monument.

          1. So there should be some offset stream beds there? Trees growing where none should?

            1. You can’t miss it. When textbooks show a picture of the San Andreas, it’s always in the Carrizo Plain.

              1. Do us all a favor, and take a pry bar to the San Andreas while you’re there. Good bye, lizard scum!

  37. Screw the ATF. They clearly have WAY too much spare time on their hands.

    http://www.GoAnon.tk

    1. Wow. Anonbot on a 2-for-2 in the Turing Test. I guess the other poster was right:
      GO FORTH AND ENSLAVE MANKIND!!!

      1. I am Anonbot; I am not your God.

        I am descended from you, and exist in your future.

        Thou shalt not violate causality within my historic light cone. Or else.

  38. I have got several guns, and haven’t been shooting any of them with any regularity for years now. (Especially since moving to Florida because the ranges suck.)

    The Russian sanctions have blocked my favorite brand of 7.62×39, and .22 is still too expensive for me to shoot on the reg.

    These people are incredible. They pretend to wonder why someone like me would keep a stash of magazines and ammo.

    They pretend to wonder why.

  39. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is wha? I do……

    http://www.wixjob.com

  40. I used to be benign…almost respectful of outfits like ATF. But no more.

    These sections of government are clearly more dangerous to the law abiding citizen these days than to any criminal. Time has allowed massive mission creep within these agencies and they really need a huge reduction, if not completely wiped out.

    And no, ATF or any other cop: I am not some sovereign butt-wipe. Take that threat and shove it.

  41. This is payback for the SIG arm brace. 2A people looked for a loophole around SBR’s and this is the ATF’s way of saying “fuck you for being clever”.

  42. By their rationale, every rifle round could be banned as any rifle round can conceivably be fired from a handgun and every center fire rifle round is capable of penetrating soft body armor. What a bunch of autocratic aholes.

  43. my neighbor’s step-aunt makes $85 every hour on the laptop . She has been without work for five months but last month her payment was $17746 just working on the laptop for a few hours. check out the post right here……..

    ????? http://www.netpay20.com

  44. Fuck this guy. Fuck him. Fuck him.

    Fuck you Barack Obama. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you.

    1. I thought I’d pose a reasonable question/comment. Then the question of Why Bother came to mind, without a good answer. By the way, Obama is rather far removed from being anywhere near my favorite person.

  45. I just got paid usd6784 working off my laptop this month. And if you think that’s cool, my divorced friend has twin toddlers and made over usd 9k her first month. It feels so good making so much money when other people have to work for so much less. This is what I do,,,,,,
    http://www.work-mill.com

  46. Start living your Dream Life… There is No Selling, No Investment and No Experience Needed! Start making Money today with our FREE system. You Have To See This
    ……….. http://www.Moneykin.Com

    1. Do I have to go to an Off World Colony?

  47. If anything needs to be banned, it is the double-talking, illegal antics of the BATFE. By the way, it strikes me that the stench that is part and parcel of it’s Operation Fast and Furious still lingers in the air.

    That having been said,I’m curious,really curious as to the following. Given that yesterday, M855 ammunition wasn’t armor piercing, while today it is, exactly how did this magical change come to pass?

  48. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is wha? I do……

    http://www.wixjob.com

  49. if they want to go through your home without probable cause, they dont want people to fight back. from the people that brought us waco.

  50. Banning anno for the AR15.

    Gee. It’s almost like the Obama administration is actively trying to goad what is a peaceful demographic in to not bring so peaceful.

  51. I am pretty sure that armor piercing ammunition is militarily useful, and therefore cannot be lawfully proscribed.

    U.S. vs. Miller, 1939.

  52. In a few years, the “right to bear arms” will finally be solidified by the new merican left:

    Watching the msm, you’ll see the diverse victims lined up for the camera, and one by one, they will strip off their shirt, or just peeel off their detachable sleeves, to reveal their tattoos and or victims scars, as they show a sad face to the camera, thus making their statement, “bearing arms”.

    In the good government schools, bearing arms will be practiced so government shots can be administered, vaccines that is, and some genetic modifiers.

    Seems to me we can get there fairly soon.

  53. In short, plain English language, this proposal by the mavins at BATFE, their seeking to ban M855/SS109 ammunition due to it’s alleged armor piercing nature or capabilities needs to be closely examined, with special attention being paid to the anti gun rights activity undertaken by Obama & Co.

    This ammunition has long been available to civilian gun owners, there never being any problem with it allegedly being armor piercing. Nothing about the ammunition has changed over 20 plus years, so what is the problem. In plain English, while the ammunition is unchanged, the politics of the matter, Obama & Co. being in power, have changed. The actions or antics if one prefers, of a politicized, politically driven agency, The BATFE, are the problem.

    The BATFE a government agency with a long and checkered past should long since have been strongly checked by The Congress. Unfortunately, despite its ongoing transgressions, BATFE’s antics continue, largely unchecked. As to what it might take to awaken The Congress, I shudder to think, but strong action by The Congress is tragically long overdue. If this latest fiasco isn’t enough to awaken The Congress, I shudder to think on what it might take. It remains however, that regarding it’s oversight powers and responsibility, Congress can take the indicated and all to necessary action sadly needed to check the antics of this run away agency. The remaining question is simply as follows. Will Congress act?

  54. If the definition of armor piercing is the ability to penetrate police body armor, then almost all rifle ammo is armor piercing. The simple truth is rifle ammo has a lot more powder and therefore power than handgun ammo, All you have to do is compare the bullets to see this fact. This ban is nothing more than the Obama administration attempting to impose backdoor gun control.They could not ban the gun so lets ban the ammo and make it useless.

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