Eric Garner

The Problem With Blaming Black Crime for Police Shootings

The epidemic of unarmed blacks being killed by police comes not when black crime is high but when it is low.

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Garner
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When a white cop kills an unarmed black man, many blacks see a pattern of prejudice that generates official suspicion, hostility and abuse based on skin color. Many whites, however, say it's the fault of blacks. If they didn't commit so much crime, they wouldn't get so much attention from police.

This is not just a favorite theme of overt bigots and Internet trolls. It's the view of Rudy Giuliani, the former New York mayor and Republican presidential candidate, and many other whites.

Black-on-black crime "is the reason for the heavy police presence in the black community," he asserted on NBC's Meet the Press. "So why don't (they) cut it down so so many white police officers don't have to be in black areas?"

In this view, African Americans have only themselves to blame for the presence and behavior of cops in their neighborhoods. If they would get serious about cleaning up the problems in their own communities, police would not be arresting or killing so many black people.

There's an element of truth to this line of argument. Violent crime rates are far higher among blacks than among whites and other groups. One reason cops have a disproportionate number of interactions with African-American males is that these men commit a disproportionate number of offenses.

Where the argument fails is in its assumption that blacks are complacent about these realities and that whites are blameless. The gist of the message is that blacks created the problem and blacks need to solve it.

But the problem didn't originate recently. In 1958—a time of lynchings, universal discrimination and legal segregation—Time magazine reported that in big cities, the "biggest and most worrisome problem is the crime rate among Negroes" and said Negro leaders and civil rights groups should start "accepting responsibility in an area where they habitually look the other way."

The common impulse of whites, then and now, was to blame blacks for pathologies that whites played a central role in creating. Criminologist Charles Silberman wrote in 1978 that "it would be hard to imagine an environment better calculated to evoke violence than the one in which black Americans have lived." Pretending black crime is a black-created problem is like pretending New Orleans never got hit by a hurricane.

The Giuliani view omits some vital facts. The epidemic of unarmed blacks being killed by police comes not when black crime is high but when it is low. Homicides committed by African Americans declined by half between 1991 and 2008.

Since the early 1990s, arrests of black juveniles have plunged by more than half. In New York City, where Eric Garner was killed by police, the rate of homicides by blacks is down by 80 percent. In Chicago, where most murders are committed by African Americans, the number last year was the lowest since 1965—and this year's could be lower yet.

What is also easy to forget in the denunciation of black crime is that the vast majority of blacks are not criminals. In any given year, less than 5 percent of African Americans are involved in violent crime as perpetrators or victims. The fact that blacks make up a large share of the violent criminal population gives many whites the impression that violent criminals make up a large share of the black population. They don't.

Why don't more blacks living in bad neighborhoods learn to behave like sober middle-class suburbanites? One reason is the shortage of stable families, steady incomes, good schools and safe streets. If you grow up with those advantages, it's relatively easy to do the right thing. If you don't, it's a lot harder.

People trapped in a poor and dangerous slum can't depend on the authorities to keep them safe. They face serious threats every time they leave home. But a young black man who packs or uses a weapon to protect himself against gangs is committing a crime. Even motivated, well-intended kids can wind up in jail.

Crime and poverty create a vicious cycle: A child raised in a chaotic environment is not likely to learn the habits that foster success. Black children afflicted with these disadvantages often take the wrong path as teens or adults. And when they turn out badly, people like Giuliani act as though whites bear no responsibility.

Conservatives are right to say that many of the problems afflicting black communities grow out of lamentable conditions in black communities. Their mistake is thinking that's the end of the discussion. It's only the beginning.

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  1. Mondays are hard enough without a steaming pile of white guilt.

    1. I don’t feel collective guilt.

      I only feel guilt over my own actions.

      1. Nobody’s asking you to feel guilty for your ancestors’ actions, just to acknowledge that social realities don’t pop into and out of existence with each new generation.

        There’s not a white person in this country who doesn’t derive some privilege from black slavery nor a black person who isn’t still burdened by its effects. That people (conservatives, you guys) have been standing in the way of rectifying this monumental theft the entire time since means your responsibility persists all the more.

        1. There’s not a man of Norman descent who doesn’t derive some privilege from the 1066 invasion nor a living Celtic speaker who isn’t still burdened by it’s effects.

          1. If you want to talk about invasion, instead of the systematic theft of labor, basic dignity, and wealth generation after generation of a race of people, we might note the privilege white Americans received from the genocide of the Indians. If your point is that history is shaped by brutal unfairness, that’s nice, but that’s no excuse for not dealing with problems that exist today and that we’re talking about this very moment.

            1. Hmmm, I can’t recall receiving a check giving me the stolen profits from slavery. Guess I forgot about it.

              Or maybe, since neither I (nor any of my ancestors) ever owned slaves, I feel no guilt over that abhorrent practice that other, dead, people once practiced a long time ago.

              1. Hell, my ancestry is largely Irish and Italian/Sicilian, with no one coming to America until the 20th century. So post-slavery Americans that came from non-slave trade countries.

                But I guess I still owe reparations to a second-generation Somalian, because my skin is light and his skin is dark. After all, I’m the racist person here.

            2. //privilege white Americans received from the genocide of the Indians.

              Dude, da fuck are you talking about? Do you ever care about making any sense at all?

              Smallpox killed all the Indians, The European expansion just finished the job. And what we (as a political body) got was land for the nation, not some vague “privilege”.

              You have such a huge chip on your shoulder you see everything as a deliberate zero-sum taking, don’t you?

            3. If your point is that history is shaped by brutal unfairness

              No my point is that historical unfairness committed by people who are no longer living, against other people who are no longer living, does not entitle any living group for compensation from another living group.

              If we take your policy preference to it’s logical conclusion, there is no such thing as a population that wouldn’t be entitled to plunder basically every other population.

              1. So you get to benefit from plunder of a possibly unprecedented scale, and then pull up the ladder behind you? I’m not arguing for reparations, I’m arguing for a redistribution of the ill-gotten wealth in a way that makes for the fairest possible economy. Anyone calling such a policy plunder is disingenuously ignoring the fact that the wealth was acquired by plunder of the worst kind in the first place.

                1. So you get to benefit from plunder of a possibly unprecedented scale, and then pull up the ladder behind you?

                  I didn’t plunder anyone.

                  m arguing for a redistribution of the ill-gotten wealth in a way that makes for the fairest possible economy.

                  What part of my wealth is ill-begotten slave money?

                  Anyone calling such a policy plunder is disingenuously ignoring the fact that the wealth was acquired by plunder of the worst kind in the first place.

                  So I make my car payments with money that I stole from negro slave 200 hundredish years ago.

                  See Tony, this is all confusing to you because you have no rational concept of justice from which to operate. You would convict me of crimes I never committed against people who had no crime committed against them.

                  1. I didn’t say you personally did anything wrong, I said you are benefiting from people who committed wrongs on a vast scale. You can say “tough shit, life isn’t fair,” but that approach opens the door to a lot of possibilities you wouldn’t tolerate (I get your money, tough shit, life isn’t fair).

                    1. and you’re plainly avoiding making any recommendations about what should be done about your perceived injustices, other than once saying you’re against reparations.

                    2. I didn’t say you personally did anything wrong, I said you are benefiting from people who committed wrongs on a vast scale.

                      And you quite critically left out the part where you say it’s therefore justified to invade and seize my property.

                      You can say “tough shit, life isn’t fair,” but that approach opens the door to a lot of possibilities you wouldn’t tolerate (I get your money, tough shit, life isn’t fair).

                      Tell me, what possibilities exactly? By refusing to pay restitution to non-victims for crimes I didn’t commit, I’m liable for people like you to pick my pocket?

                    3. But you did say that we, who have done nothing wrong, should all be forced to redistribute our income to others, who had nothing wrong done to them, because of wrong committed between other groups of people a long long time ago. This is simply ludicrous.

                      Of course it assumes that giving our money to the black population will solve its problems. This argument itself is simply wrong.

            4. Since my ancestors were Scotch-Irish non-slave owners, fuck you and your bullshit liberal white guilt. Me and mine had zilch to do with it.

              Why don’t you focus some energy on solving REAL problems like getting rid of that turd Obama and undoing all his evil works.

              YOU have a lot of blood on your hands.

          2. it was actually the anglo saxons who were conquered in 1066, after they had conquered the celts during the dark ages. The Normans then continued the conquest of the celts over the next few centuries.

        2. //There’s not a white person in this country who doesn’t derive some privilege from black slavery nor a black person who isn’t still burdened by its effects

          uhhh…. How about the millions and millions of kids of recent immigrants? My parents are from Iran, came here in the ’80s. How did I benefit from slavery?

          1. How did you benefit from slavery? PERSIAN EMPIRE PRIVILEGE! /derp

          2. This country’s wealth (and the wealth of people living in it) is owed in large part, to this day, to the production of major consumer goods using slave labor (especially cotton).

            After slavery was abolished, what wealth blacks were able to accumulate was stolen from them, either outright (as in the example of my city, which had the wealthiest black population in the country until racist whites burned their community to the ground), or by denying them access to commerce through discriminatory practices.

            These disparities have not been all cleared up. As I said, white people living today are not directly responsible, but neither are they living purely off the sweat of their own brow.

            1. //This country’s wealth (and the wealth of people living in it) is owed in large part, to this day, to the production of major consumer goods using slave labor (especially cotton).

              You’re a fucking idiot.
              Maybe the wealth of a small number of families in the South. That’s about it. You’re ignoring the cost of the Civil War, and the massive societal/interpersonal wealth redistribution as people succeed and fuck up as generations come along.

              Not to mention, again, IMMIGRANTS WHO CAME AFTERWARDS, MOST OF WHOM WERE POOR

              burning down buildings would not be stealing wealth, it would just be destroying it.

              denying people access to commerce would be ditto

              You’re so fucked up you believe with blind faith that wealth destruction must be followed by some wealth gain by someone somewhere

              1. American slavery did not persist for centuries just for the benefit of a few Southern families. That is a ludicrous claim. Cotton was produced in the South and sold in the North and in Europe (where textile production was a major driver of the Industrial Revolution). The Western economy depended on it, and would not have become as wealthy as it did without it.

                Parsing the difference between stealing and destroying wealth ignores the point: black communities were disadvantaged, deliberately and for centuries without ending, by white people, and it has yet to be totally resolved (which should be self-evident).

                1. that amount of money is fucking peanuts compared to the money we’ve gained for the past 149 years. It’s inconsequential. Maybe it sort of helped… The Reconstruction, I guess? But it’s not even worth talking about

                  //black communities were disadvantaged, deliberately and for centuries without ending, by white people, and it has yet to be totally resolved (which should be self-evident).

                  No one is denying that. But what can we reasonably do about it? We have to strive for equality under the law and of opportunity, and that’s it.

                  I know you said no-reparations, but then fucking what? Whatever you do, you can’t spend any government money, since most of it is from people who’s ancestors had nothing to do with slavery (most of this country comes from post-bellum immigration)

                2. Most of America’s wealth was the product of the industrial revolution, and the freedom to create wealth that a relatively free market economy affords.

                  Slavery was wildly inefficient en masse, and ultimately was an impediment to innovation.

                  Although it is likely a Marxist dolt, such as yourself, is incapable of grasping such a simple concept.

              2. Wealth cannot, be created or destroyed. /tony

            2. At what point, would the Israelis have to stop blaming Egypt for slavery?

            3. That’s simply not true. The US only become a wealthy country with per capita incomes on par with Europe in the late after slavery was abolished. The economy grew at its fastest clip during the period from about 1870 to 1900, after slavery had been abolished. The great gilded age fortunes of America’s plutocrats were all all made either through heavy industry (Rockefellers, Carnegies, Fords, etc) or through finance (Morgans, Mellons, etc).

              From Wikipedia’s article on the Gilded Age:

              During the 1870s and 1880s, the U.S. economy rose at the fastest rate in its history, with real wages, wealth, GDP, and capital formation all increasing rapidly.[12] For example, between 1865 and 1898, the output of wheat increased by 256%, corn by 222%, coal by 800% and miles of railway track by 567%.[13]

              By the beginning of the 20th century, per capita income and industrial production in the United States led the world, with per capita incomes double that of Germany or France, and 50% higher than Britain.[14] The United States’ growth caused foreigners to ask, as British author W. T. Stead wrote in 1901, “What is the secret of American success?”[15] The businessmen of the Second Industrial Revolution created industrial towns and cities in the Northeast with new factories, and hired an ethnically diverse industrial working class, many of them new immigrants from Europe.

              1. In general talking about modern wealth isn’t even comparable to pre-1900s wealth. There is so much more technology than back then. Nowadays every shmuck, even the fucking illegal laborers I used to hire, has a fucking smart phone that talks to floating manmade objects in space and can tell you exactly where you are.

                Back in the day, they didn’t even have ucking toilets, and the height of wealth was a fancy candlestick, and the height of technology was a new horse-drawn mechanical harvester thing that only actually did 1/10th of the harvesting job.

            4. Tony you can no more say that white people in America owe what they have to slavery, than you could say the same for black people in America. If the slaves had not been brought here their descendants would be living in that paradise known as Africa.

              Of course this is irrelevant we are talking about crimes that most americans had nothing to do with, either as perpetrators or victims. Guilt is not hereditary, therefore punishment should not be either.

            5. After slavery was abolished, what wealth blacks were able to accumulate was stolen from them, either outright (as in the example of my city, which had the wealthiest black population in the country until racist whites burned their community to the ground), or by denying them access to commerce through discriminatory practices.

              Using this “logic” one could claim that blacks owe white people reparations for all the cities destroyed by black riots, black crime, black corruption, blacks benefiting from affirmative action and other “discriminaotry practices,” etc. We could start with black misrule of Detroit since the 1960s.

              Of course, I do not claim that blacks owe me anything because that is the worst kind of barnyard collectivism.

        3. Oh bullshit, Tony. People are responsible for their own actions, blaming it on something that no longer exists is a worthless excuse to try and escape personal responsibility.

          1. Racism no longer exists?

            1. Chalking up the sum total of dysfunction in black communities to racism is undoubtedly a dodging of responsibility. From what we can glean from Tony, this much is clear; blacks have no responsibility for actions they’ve taken and whites are innately responsible for actions that they never took.

              1. If people are responsible for their own actions, what would they need progressives for?

              2. People have the same responsibilities to provide for their families regardless of their race. Some people just have an easier time at fulfilling it.

                Lecturing people about their personal behavior is what parents do to children, and it’s not like that even works all that well. It’s not a useful approach to dealing with systemic social problems.

                1. How come Appalachia isn’t more successful?
                  I mean, they have tons of whir privilege!

                  1. White privilege, even.

                  2. Because it’s sparsely populated and has virtually no economy?

                    1. that still kinda negates your entire premise, Tony. Whatever the hell it is.

                2. People have the same responsibilities to provide for their families regardless of their race. Some people just have an easier time at fulfilling it.

                  Typically the ones who use the legitimized coercion of the state to achieve it.

                  Lecturing people about their personal behavior is what parents do to children, and it’s not like that even works all that well. It’s not a useful approach to dealing with systemic social problems.

                  Lecturing people? You have no evidence of a crime committed by anyone against anyone, that hasn’t already been dead for more than a century. People like you are the systemic social problem.

                3. Lecturing people about their personal behavior is what parents do to children, and it’s not like that even works all that well.

                  Great point. Can you stop lecturing us about our unearned wealth and white privilege, now?

            2. yeah, it does, Tony, mostly among white liberals who keep supporting policies they know are disastrous for blacks, like public schools, federal authority in all laws, which unavoidably includes drug laws, maintaining the college cartel which blocks entry to employment, and endless immigration, which brings tons of real hard-line racists from the Old World cultures over to here

              1. Black people support liberal policies more than any other group. They must be too stupid to realize they’re doing themselves no favors, huh?

                1. //Black people support liberal policies more than any other group

                  Actually, they strongly favor charter schools. And doubtless they’d favor un-fucking the college system if those stories were in the news more.

                  //They must be too stupid to realize they’re doing themselves no favors, huh?

                  Yeah, to some extent. But most of this country is hopelessly stupid anyway, blacks would be no special exception. They’re just voting out of habit and bullshit claims by the democrats, like how a LOT, if not most people, vote.

                2. Black people support liberal policies more than any other group. They must be too stupid to realize they’re doing themselves no favors, huh?

                  Well, yeah. No thanks to your ilk for tirelessly working to keep them on a plantation.

            3. To some degree. People hate other people for all sorts of reasons. What about the vicious discrimination that the obese and the ugly receive? I’ll bet Halle Berry was never treated as poorly as some fat uggo in her entire life because of her skin color.

              The problem is people like you, that obsess over this shit and keep it alive. Obama and his buddies are he same way. Now look at what he has done to America in just six years.

              Thanks to you and your friends, Al Sharpton is an advisor to the President. Seriously. Doesn’t that make you question everything you foolishly believe in?

            4. I’m sure it does in scattered individuals, but even if it existed in the majority, neither the legacy of slavery, nor racism, is an excuse for crime or low achievement. If it were, the Jews and Armenians would have high crime rates and low incomes. West Indies blacks, who have a much harsher legacy of slavery than American blacks (see Thomas Sowell, and others) and who are subjected to whatever racism exists, come to the US and match or exceed white income in a remarkably short time. Furthermore, they’ve done this since back in the Jim Crow days. Your argument is contradicted by too many real-life examples.

            5. Wait – you were talking about slavery, but now you want income redistribution due to modern day racism? I think your argument is changing.

        4. I don’t derive anything from 150 year old slavery. But please enlighten me on what it did for me.

        5. How can you say all white people benefit today from slavery? This is the white privilege narrative you are referring to, correct? Explain how all white people today benefit. Then explain how it’s different than it would have been without African slaves. Think about it… before and during black slaves, there were white slaves. But blacks and whites started out on equal footing in the slavery aspect. Slaves were meant to do serve their bossman for a period of time. Whites and blacks alike we’re freed. Both were given extended sentences. Both were eventually owned for life. White children were shipped to many countries, including the Americas to be servants/slaves, with no adults or family to protect their interest. They were beaten, starved, mangled by machinery, and killed. They did not have a choice. To deny it is irresponsible, irrational, and frankly it’s down right inhumane to focus only on black suffering.

          Let’s imagine that africans never came to America or Europe. This would mean only whites were slaves. This is true in other countries. For example: the Slavic and Jewish people were slaves to Hitler. Now, if only whites were slaves, what would be different? Would there be more whites in poverty today? Would the US have ceased to exist without blacks? I think not.

          1. Let’s think further… if there were no blacks in the US because none came during slavery, I’m only including things I feel would be accurate…
            *we would have a smaller population.
            *Our poverty levels would be greatly decreased.
            *The war on poverty may have never have occupied, meaning less tax.
            *The amount of wealth distribution would be greatly limited.
            *There may not be black vs white crimes or civil rights claims on a daily basis.
            *Whites would be ALLOWED to have a culture, to be proud of a heritage.
            *Whites wouldn’t be under attack in hate crimes, increasing daily, while the media, race-baiters, POTUS attorney General, faux activists, etc., ignores the issue.
            *Whites wouldn’t be called racist on a daily basis
            *black mob violence and beat whitey nights wouldn’t occur
            *No more Whites getting punished in schools more harshly than blacks, because civil rights/ black apologists decided school punishment leads to prison.
            *our attorney General would punish hate crimes equally instead of saying whites aren’t a protected class
            *blacks high violent crime, means without them, our citizens would be safer.
            *whites would be allowed to have groups like all black groups
            *a white college student (Denton Ward) may not have his head stomped in, to his death, for being a cowboy, in a crowd of 400 blacks, while it’s ignored for a case 8 days later (martin).

            1. Continued…
              *There would have been no civil war resulting in my great(x4)grandfather, his brother, and his brother-in-law, being killed by confederates. Leaving my grandmother, her sister, and my aunt to raise their families with no husbands, and their homes were burned to the ground. This privilege is what a lot of families got for being white. This results in poverty stricken families in the future.
              *we still would’ve had cotton
              *we still would be the best developed nation (minus the massive debt from entitlements and aid given to countries including many in Africa.)
              *we’d likely have less programs that cost a lot of tax money, like entitlements and groups for racial discrimination and research.
              *we’d have no Al Sharpton (that’d be worth it)
              *no KKK
              *there’d be no new black Panthers calling for the killing of some Cracka babies and white genocide.
              *all lives might matter instead of just black lives taken by whites
              *white slaves may get the acknowledgement they deserved
              *those Africans sold into slavery would likely have been killed if not sold to the next bidder by their people. May have resulted in a lot of people never being able to have children, therefore having no descendants to be victims of slavery today.
              *black racist would be called racist
              And the list goes on.

              1. Continued…
                My family’s heritage is wide spread and I have direct links to slavery in my ancestry. None of my people were slave owners but there’s a lot of violence, servitude, and lack of choice in it. 2 of my family members were hanged in South Carolina. One was killed in the 1700’s when a black man was on the Council. Imagine that… a freed black man taking part in the hanging of a white man, in the south.

                You can’t say we’ve all benefited as a such a blanket statement. Its pointless to equate your idea of whites benefits, when you fail to realize the very massive amount of downfalls. You’re also totally ignoring the benefits black Americans and Europeans have by being here instead of their original homes. If it was such a safe and great place, how did they get put on the ships? If it were so wonderful, why did so many choose to stay, often asking their previous masters to hire them so they wouldn’t have to go there.

                1. Continued…
                  You have to look at all sides. Why are you talking about wealth distribution today, when we are already living paycheck to paycheck across america? What’s the purpose to use slavery as a justification for behavior of blacks today? This is deflection as well. Its all pointless. There will be no reparations because there is no way to impose them. It won’t work. Even if we found a way, we’d be paying who? One great great great great grandchild, what about the rest? Where do we take the money from? Should I give more of my paycheck when I can barely pay my way? If we paid it, do you leave? Do you all stay, blow through the money, still acting, blaming, the same? Do we get to say, no more entitlements to people who got reparations? Should people who’ve never worked a day in their life get the same money? What about all the people that came after slavery? How about white people with black relatives? What about, rapist, murders, child abusers- do they still get money, even in jail? Do whites get paid for having ancestors that we’re forced in servitude? Do we get a pass for growing up in poverty, having grandparents killed by confederates, saving a black man’s life, having family killed by black people, etc., etc. How could it work? It can’t.
                  Sorry for the length.

    2. It would be easier on you if you stopped equating guilt with responsibility. The (white) majority in this country is responsible for much of the social pathology in urban Black communities, by plaguing them with social welfare, justice, education, and regulatory policies that cause social debasement.

      1. I would be happy to remove all of those plagues from their community.

      2. Exactly, I didn’t cause those things to happen so no guilt, but those things have happened and continue to happen and must stop. The “justice” system must be reformed, the cycle of dependacy must be broken or things will continue on as they are.

        This cycle of misery is unjust to those trapped within it and wastes so much human potential.

      3. This is partially true, but never, never will those responsible for promoting those policies (both black and white) ever acknowledge their culpability. It’s so much easier to yell “racism” and conjure up the ghost of Bull Connor. Hey, their intentions while paternalistic and short-sighted were good, so STFU.

      4. Not sure, but I think it was Kristoff in the NY Times a week or two ago who was saying the problems in the black community have been with us a very long time. I was screaming inside, wanting so much for Thomas Sowell to be given an op ed in rebuttal that pointed out that many of these problems were actually decreasing until the 60s and 70s when the feds started “helping.” ARGH!

        1. Thomas Sowell is certainly the counter-point of much of the above thinking.

      5. Blacks overwhelmingly voted for Obama and have their own selves to blame for the increase in black poverty. In fact blacks are more likely to vote along racial lines than whites no matter than it will continue policies that are bad for blacks. You can’t fix stupid and most voters in this country are stupid.

        In addition, the policies you cite as causing social debasement are just as bad for other races, including whites who also end up paying for it.

        The truth is that whatever problems blacks have, they need to solve on their own – we can’t buy them out of it, or welfare them out of it, and poverty is not an excuse.

        All this is also separate from the fact that cops murder and abuse far too many people in this country every year. They are criminal thugs hiding behind a thug union and the legals systems desire to cover up the abuses.

    3. “Mondays are hard enough without a steaming pile of white guilt.”

      The world would be better without a steaming pile of a racist Drug War.

      America would be better without a steaming pile of police militarization.

      Who can honestly say those two things don’t have anything to do with the burden of them falling disproportionately on black people?

      White guilt is an excellent reason to get rid of the Drug War.

      White guilt is an excellent reason to stop the militarization of our police.

      Mondays would be better without a steaming pile of phony libertarians, who want to get rid of the Drug War and want to stop the militarization of our police–but only so long as doing so doesn’t highlight the inherent racism on which those policies are built.

      1. The inherent racism of the Black Congressional Caucus who asked for some of these policies a couple of decades ago, because drugs were a negative effect on their communities?

        The drug war is a lot of wrongheaded policy, but mostly it was done without malicious intent. Making correcting the bad effects by focusing on a phantom rationale for why those policies came about leads to further bad ideas on how to correct it today.

        1. What could possibly explain the difference in the way we’ve treated, for example, weed and crack versus alcohol and coke, respectively, except race?

          1. STFU, Tony.

            You’re an idiot.

          2. Yeah, when will the government get around to cracking down on alcohol!?

            These discrepancies are quite easy to puzzle out, without resorting to some racist conspiracy.

            1. I’m all ears.

              1. Drug policy for weed and crack was in place before they became the drugs of choice in poor communities. No conspiracy there. What difference are you referring to?

          3. Weed and crack have different effects on behavior than booze and coke? Also, my Dad was around when I was growing up. Thanks to the people you support, black dads generally are not. Which was NOT always the case.

            Good going.

          4. The CBC was in support of those harsh crackdowns on crack because that was where all the gang wars were as they killed each other in drive bys. The CBC probably thought that it was all being brought in by the mafia and the law would go after them

            However, by then the mafia had offloaded street dealing to the locals gangs and their street code made it difficult to get to the level the mafia was at.

            Now that their friends and relatives are in prison, they don’t like these laws anymore.

          5. You mean like that time that feds intentionally poisoned alcohol?

        2. “The inherent racism of the Black Congressional Caucus who asked for some of these policies a couple of decades ago, because drugs were a negative effect on their communities?”

          So they saw the truth and changed their minds–in no small part because they started paying attention to what libertarians have been saying for years?!

          That’s good news–not bad news.

          I’m certainly not going to suddenly change my mind about being against the Drug War or the militarization of the police–just because the Congressional Black Caucus are on the same side as libertarians now.

          That would make me guilty of the same thing you’re accusing them of! What, we used to be against the Drug War–in no small part–because it’s racist and disproportionately impacts black people, and now we’re going to change our minds because the Congressional Black Caucus has finally gone sane on the issue?!

          That doesn’t make any sense.

          If the Congressional Black Caucus comes out against ObamaCare for the it’s disproportionate negative impacts on black people, are you going to start supporting ObamaCare, too?

          1. Ken, I don’t think we disagree that much. I We as a society have been wrong about a lot things with regards the drug war, and it is good that groups that had suppported it in the past recognize that for whatever reasons now.

      2. Speaking of phony libertarians… hi ken.

        1. A phony libertarian would be someone who’s against the Drug War–just so long as being against it doesn’t put them in the same boat with black people.

          White guilt?! Yeah, I hope so…

          All those progressives out there should be ashamed of themselves for supporting this racist Drug War–and anybody who doesn’t think we should smear the facts all over the progressives’ faces because they don’t like to hear about white guilt–probably isn’t a real libertarian.

          I’m not usually one to get into libertarian purity tests, but racism is collectivism on the basis of race. If libertarianism, properly defined, has something to do with the preeminence of individuals and their rights, then all libertarians should be disgusted with racism.

          I’m sure as hell not going to pretend the racist Drug War isn’t racist or that opposing the Drug War/Police militarization, etc isn’t racist or anti-libertarians just because somebody else doesn’t like hearing about white guilt.

          1. I’m not usually one to get into libertarian purity tests

            laugh out loud

            1. You got some links to whatever your beef is?

              What, did I totally fuck your shit up in a thread somewhere–and now you just can’t get over it?

              You’re a bug on my grill, buddy ro. I have no idea who you are or what you’re talking about.

              P.S. To the rest of you all, is this Tulpa?

              1. don’t worry about it

                Free Society is just a fucking aspberger douche-nerd libertarian purist buttplug. He thinks he’s smart and clever, he just responds to his perceived opponents in a piecemeal manner, taking the obnoxious atomistic view of everything. He claims to be a libertarian, but he’s just a misanthrope period. I’ve never had someone argue against me against drug legalization as this douche did.

                1. I’ve never had someone argue against me against drug legalization as this douche did.

                  Lovely post. Care to tell me when I ever argued against drug legalization?

                  1. yeah, on the Eric Garner case article.

                    Alls I was saying was that I wasn’t for complete libertopia, just massively ddecriminialization and you and John argued against me to no end, far harder than you ever argue against pro-drug law guys

                    Remember, I was arguing FOR legalization, and you were giving me massive shit for not being absolutely purist perfect. In effect you were arguing against my proposal for legalization. You let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

                    This is ESPECIALLY true when you consider that by far the majority of people would actually find MY arguments convincing, not yours. All the pro-drug-war people would have to do is point to you and say “He has extremist on his side, it’ll eventually devolve into that.”

                    You don’t give a shit about actually getting libertarian policies passed, like the Libertarian Party

                    1. Alls I was saying was that I wasn’t for complete libertopia, just massively ddecriminialization and you and John argued against me to no end, far harder than you ever argue against pro-drug law guys

                      I was never pro-drug laws. You’ll have to provide a quote.

                      Remember, I was arguing FOR legalization, and you were giving me massive shit for not being absolutely purist perfect.

                      I was giving you shit because you so casually misuse and abuse every term you come across.

                      This is ESPECIALLY true when you consider that by far the majority of people would actually find MY arguments convincing, not yours.

                      ad Populum for the win! Nice!

                      You don’t give a shit about actually getting libertarian policies passed, like the Libertarian Party

                      Yes, the Libertarian Party is actually a policy. Remember back when you didn’t know what basic words meant?

                      You’re an Obama supporter aren’t you? Last I checked you still live in the US since his presidency, that means you consent! Infallible logic right there huh?

              2. You’re just a twat that I make a point not to spend too much time on. Even if I were to post tacit agreement with something you just said and nothing else, you turn around and accuse me of being no libertarian blah blah blah. You’re like an old crotchety man, too busy yelling at me to get off your lawn to realize what was actually said.

                1. Free Society throws around the “You’re not a libertarian” canard more than anyone

                  1. How’s that social contract working out for you? Stop supporting Obama already and move to Antarctica.

                    1. “How’s that social contract working out for you? Stop supporting Obama already and move to Antarctica.”

                      Does anybody understand what this is supposed to mean?

                    2. Edwin does. It’s his contention that if you live under a government for x amount of time, you consent to it and it’s policies. For your information.

  2. When someone says it’s OK for the law enforcers for the largest local criminal gang to single someone out for harassment because other people who look vaguely like them have done things that said criminal gang said they can’t do, such as smoke unapproved plant matter without paying kickbacks to the gang — that person who OKs that can go fuck themselves.

    1. Speaking of that, you know those much heralded “profiling bans”? The TSA and Border Patrol officially don’t have to worry about that shit. Much like there is no sex in the champagne room, there is no no profiling bans in the airport.

      Which is hilarious, as the Muslim grievance industry is trying so, so hard to make the recent public scrutiny of police behavior all about them.

      Laura W. Murphy, legislative office director for the ACLU in Washington, said in a statement that the new guidance is “not an adequate response to the crisis of racial profiling in America,” arguing that the new guidelines are “so loosely drafted” and contain flexibility that can affect American Muslims.

      The group Muslim Advocates also argued the new rules don’t go far enough in protecting American Muslims from profiling by the FBI, Customs and Border Protection, and other law enforcement agencies.

      “We urge the administration to finish the job by addressing these outstanding, gaping problems with the Guidance,” the group said in a statement.

      1. The new guidelines replace ones in place since 2003, which prohibit profiling based on race and ethnicity ….
        [T]he new guidelines … will prohibit profiling based on religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation and gender identity

        Emphasis added. So, racial and ethnic profiling will be OK again!

        1. It means more strip searching little old ladies, because, fairness.

  3. Jeez, Steve. Even when I agree with your central thesis, I loath the way you construct the argument. Could you sound a little less self-indulgent? Please, please stick to accurate statistic and stay away from the inaccurate language.

    Here’s an example:

    The epidemic of unarmed blacks being killed by police comes not when black crime is high but when it is low.

    There’s no epidemic. You weaken your argument when you include provably false emotional language.

    1. TBF: when you have three incidents in the same year, you can pretty much build the trend line in any direction you want.

      /not serious.

      1. Shooting unarmed people isn’t contagious; ergo, there can be no epidemic.

        1. There’s no increase or increase in rate of blacks being shot by cops. It is what it is.

  4. The common impulse of whites, then and now, was to blame blacks for pathologies that whites played a central role in creating.

    The common impulse of wealthy people, then and now, was to blame poor people for pathologies that wealthy people played a central role in creating.

    The common impulse of communists, then and now, was to blame capitalists for pathologies that communists played a central role in creating.

    The common impulse of old people, then and now, was to blame young people for pathologies that old people played a central role in creating.

    The common impulse of some, then and now, was to blame others for pathologies that some played a central role in creating.

    *** hopes coffee will kick in and provide a solution ***

    1. I blame the unborn, stupid bastards are always screwing it up for the rest of us.

      1. “If it weren’t for those meddling kids!”

  5. Breaking news: you Reasonoids heard it here first — I-95 has been blocked in Jacksonville, Fl by protesters.

      1. Oh my, check out the intense bigotry in the comments…

    1. Dammit, Libertarian! Now I can’t breathe!

    2. Who wants to go to Jacksonville? 😉

      1. You don’t understand — people are trying to get OUT!

  6. The elephant in the room is that law and order policies are popular with the black community. If the police just ignored these neighborhoods, then we would hear how racist government refuses to protect the vulnerable. The black community needs to stop loving the State so much and be willing to police itself.

    1. The black community needs to stop loving the State so much and be willing to police itself.

      What are the Black Panthers, chopped liver?

      1. Black Panthers, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Black empowerment organizations and figures have been taken down by overzealous Federal Officials through a variety of ways so what’s left are the people who pass out checks and city jobs and promise “things will get better, just vote for me”.

    2. You are correct, sir. Urban Black politicians, “community organizers”, activists, etc. are are some of the most stridently stentorian advocates of gun control and “police as occupying force” policies. As long as Tammany Hall cuts them a sizable check in the process, of course.

      1. ^This. And, as long a they get to hand out public sector jobs to constituents (patronage), they’ll continue to be re-elected.

      2. Dammit HM, I have to keep a page open to Merriam Webster because of you. I thought “stentorian” was some kind of cardiologist bodyguard for a second..

        1. I thought “stentorian” was some kind of cardiologist bodyguard for a second..

          Coffee. Nose.

        2. Sheesh, Scruffy, *everybody* knows “stentorian” is a microscopic animal.

          1. Oh yeah, they’re in the midichlorian family, right?

            1. Well, the Almighty Stentorians.

          2. Really? I thought it had something to do with eschatology.

          3. What do you get when you cross a Rick Santorum and a Steny Hoyer?

            1. Are you sure it’s not a cross between Steny Hoyer and victorians?

              1. Steny Hoyer as a cross dressing Victorian. You may be on to something.

  7. Yes, blacks have been screwed worse by the govt than whites. I’d like to know when govt wasn’t screwing citizens over and how the one group that was less oppressed is now guilty for the oppression of another group that got it worse. This isn’t sins of the father, it’s more like sins of the master.

    1. I don’t agree with the “White Privilege” thing because it’s nonsense because the only true privilege is your economic status. What we have our facts which is that Black people had a pretty cruddy run in this country and did not have the protection of the government to be equal until 1968… then the War on Drugs disproportionally us in a big way that threw us into a legal system is not as blind as designed.

      1. Ironic that the population most harmed by the WOD is the population that most extols drug’s virtues through its popular culture. Perhaps sad is a better word.

  8. Much of the crime and killings are due to the W.O.D.’S.Poor are’s,mostly black in cities,are easy marks for cops.On the plus side,they don’t have the money to fight B.S. charges and police abuse.Un video less it’s sweep away.I wonder what the crime rates look like if you exclude drug arrests and murders due to the drug war? There is more drug use by whites,it’s just hidden.Then there’s these B.S. laws ,like the loose cig crack down ect.Easy arrests of people who can’t fight it.

  9. To early for me I guess,need coffee

    1. Feel.the punctuation within.you. Let it flow.and.consume you. Soon your trabsition.to.the.Dark Side will be.complete.

      1. oh sweet Jesus

  10. A lot of problems for blacks are caused by inner city leaders and policies, and those are frequently not white. I mean, Detroit has the highest property tax rate in the country, and crapton of business regulations, and then people wonder why everybody is leaving, and unemployment rate is so high.

  11. In 1958?a time of lynchings, universal discrimination and legal segregation?
    1958 was 12 years after the last recorded lynching: Moore’s Ford

    1. I wsa wondering about the history of lynching, too.

    2. I was puzzled by that too. Several sources had varying numbers for lynchings in the 50’s, but all were under 10 total for the 50’s with 1/3 to 1/2 of the victims being white.

    3. I’m pretty sure Emmett Till was lynched in 1955.

      So that can’t be right.

      1. That was a murder, not a lynching.3 or 4 perps, done in secret, body hidden.

        1. All lynchings are murders, so you are arguing a distinction that is without a difference.

          Done in secret has never been a criteria for classifying a lynching.

          Tuskegee University calculated lynching figures since the 1882 – 1968.

          Their criteria was the following
          “There must be legal evidence that a person was killed. That person must have met death illegally. A group of three or more persons must have participated in the killing. The group must have acted under the pretext of service to justice, race or tradition.”

          In that line Till’s murder was counted as a lynching in 1955.

          Its funny you bring out it being a murder when the murders were acquitted at trial, when pretty much everyone knew they did it, but just felt in the words of a few jurors that a white man should be imprisoned for life or given death for the murder of a black man.

          1. blah blah blah. OJ.

  12. Black children afflicted with these disadvantages often take the wrong path as teens or adults. And when they turn out badly, people like Giuliani act as though whites bear no responsibility.

    Then, in this particular instance, people like Giuliani are right. People don’t bear responsibility for the choices or actions of others. To suggest otherwise is to deny the moral agency of the actor or chooser.

    I’ll agree with Chapman that the situation in many black communities is deplorable. I’d agree that it would be desirable to see the pathologies in these communities be overcome (Not because of collective responsibility, but because of favorable spillover effects). But, even if you want to lay the root of the problems at overexpansive government, I’d note those policies are often instituted by people said communities support and I vigorously oppose.

    Honestly, sometimes I wonder if the biggest pathology facing black communities isn’t widespread self-lowering to meet the expectations of people like Chapman that “black people can’t be expected to behave like the rest of us”.

    1. “Even if you want to lay the root of the problems at overexpansive government, I’d note those policies are often instituted by people said communities support and I vigorously oppose.”

      The unionization of the police force is a problem.

      Black communities have become like single party states in many urban areas, and the Democratic Party is heavily beholden to public employee unions. A lot of cops are represented by the Teamsters. When the interests of the unions and the black community are in opposition, the Democratic politicians go with the unions that get them elected.

      I’m not sure they vigorously support their Democrat leaders–so much as they don’t feel like they have an alternative.

      I don’t think there is any solution to that problem that doesn’t involve the Republicans actively marketing themselves as being strongly anti-racist.

  13. “Back in June, the world was speechless when Goldman’s head of the ECB, Mario Draghi, stunned the world when he took Bernanke’s ZIRP and raised him one better by announcing the ECB would send deposit rates into negative territory, in the process launching the Neutron bomb known as N(egative)IRP and pushing European monetary policy into the “twilight zone”, forcing savers to pay (!) for the privilege of keeping the product of their labor in the form of fiat currency instead of invested in a global ponzi scheme built on capital market so broken even the BIS can no longer contain its shocked amazement.”

    OT, sorry
    Who let the frogs out! Oeuf, Oeuf, Oeuf!

  14. Too much blame shifting by Chapman.

    1) Blacks like myself have 100% control of how we live our lives. We have no genetic predisposition to engage in crime or not living up to our full potential more than anyone else. So stop with the paternalistic bullshit Chapman.

    2) We can recognize point 1, and still make a excellent argument that the welfare state positively incentivizes poor behavior and life choices for EVERYONE, and that it needs to be dismantled. You don’t need to paternally talk down black people as passive actors who just exist at the hands of white men and society to do that.

    3) That said I’m glad you have called out the non-logic of bigots and trolls who try to remove blame from the state with regard to their increased militarization and outright murder of the populace. Black on black crime is an issue, as is white on white crime, hispanic on hispanic crime, and etc. This does not excuse officers from breaking the law themselves and murdering, torturing, and harassing the citizenry that funds them and it sure as hell doesn’t allow them to ignore the law they are supposed to be enforcing.

  15. Chapman on the dysfunctions of black culture: “Check your privilege whitey.”

    1. You’re aware we can all see what Chapman actually wrote, aren’t you?

      1. Pretending black crime is a black-created problem is like pretending New Orleans never got hit by a hurricane.

        We’re all aware that Ken Shultz can’t be expected to actually read anything he’s commenting on.

        1. “Pretending black crime is a black-created problem is like pretending New Orleans never got hit by a hurricane.”

          You think Chapman suggesting that black crime is a result of anti-libertarian public policy is the same as Chapman saying, “Check your privilege whitey”?!

          This is Tulpa, right, y’all?

          If it isn’t Tulpa, it’s someone who acts exactly like Tulpa.

          1. You think Chapman suggesting that black crime is a result of anti-libertarian public policy is the same as Chapman saying, “Check your privilege whitey”?!

            Yeah because nothing says ‘anti-libertartian’ like insisting on personal, that is, individual responsibility.

            Why do you feel the need to constantly insinuate everyone you argue against is Tulpa? See I don’t need to do such to show how retarded your arguments are. The argument speaks for itself.

            1. You’re right. There are lots of people who make baseless charges against other commenters and Reason staff–who aren’t Tulpa. And maybe you’re just one of them!

              “Nothing says ‘anti-libertartian’ like insisting on personal, that is, individual responsibility.”

              Am I to understand you think all those people who are in the criminal justice system because of the Drug War aren’t really there because of the Drug War–they’re there because of a lack of personal responsibility?

              I’d start an argument about how public policy can and does have an impact on groups of people, but why argue with someone who won’t admit that when people are arrested because of the Drug War, it’s because of the Drug War?

              “I don’t need to do such to show how retarded your arguments are. The argument speaks for itself.”

              You mean like the argument that when Champman suggests things like black incarceration rates may be a result of public policy, it amounts to the same thing as saying “Check your privilege whitey”?

              You’re not much of a big-picture guy, are you.

              1. You’re right. There are lots of people who make baseless charges against other commenters and Reason staff–who aren’t Tulpa. And maybe you’re just one of them!

                Well is it your belief that Chapman is a libertarian? An Obama supporting, pro-central banking, easy-credit libertarian?

                Am I to understand you think all those people who are in the criminal justice system because of the Drug War aren’t really there because of the Drug War–they’re there because of a lack of personal responsibility?

                Well since we were talking about black on black violence specifically and nor did I equate the “dysfunction of black culture” with the Drug War I’ve got to wonder why you bring this up like it’s the only consideration.

                You mean like the argument that when Champman suggests things like black incarceration rates may be a result of public policy

                You really are trying to be obtuse. He did chalk it up to white people and he was talking mostly about black crimes, offense rates and related deaths. I was directly responding to his collectivist claims about where blame should rest.

                Where the argument fails is in its assumption that blacks are complacent about these realities and that whites are blameless. The gist of the message is that blacks created the problem and blacks need to solve it.

                You’re not much of a reading comprehension guy, are you?

  16. this article seems to be assuming it’s premise.

    it speaks repeatedly of an “epidemic” of shootings yet it never provides even a single piece of evidence to support the existence of such a thing.

    such evidence as it does provide seems to indicate that arrests are down for blacks. never, not once, is there any evidence presented that shootings are up or that an “epidemic” is taking place.

    this is pure assumptive straw man.

    sure, there is a great deal of talk about it in the media, but that summer the news was all about shark attacks was a low summer for such attacks, not a high one.

    the fact that such behavior is now easier to catch, record, and publicize may make it seem like an “epidemic” is taking place, but is it?

    i do not claim to know, but the author of this article has certainly given us no information on the topic.

  17. A shoddy absence of journalism. So what epidemic of white cops on unarmed blacks? It isn’t the color of skin, it’s the content of their character. The militant blacks have taken the reputation of their race to lows comparatable to the 1950’s and 60’s.

    1. What does militant black even mean?
      How have they taken their reputation to new lows when blacks as well as every other racial group have near historic lows in crime in all factors?

      It isn’t a white cop problem, its a cop problem, I would suggest you stop getting caught up in painting blacks as “evil others” with that ridiculous militant talk and realize just like blacks and other minorities, whites are also increasingly being victimized by the police state.

  18. Let’s all pity the blacks, they’re such victims, with white priviledge and such. Great recipe for self-fulling prophecy.

  19. So, what is your prescription for stopping the crime of the Black Underclass. Sure they make up only 4% or 5% of the population but they are committing crime at a prodigious rate. If Blacks are responsible for about 48% of the crime and we remove 10% of that as the normal crime that people do (the blacks not in the underclass) then that means this 4% or 5% is committing 38% of the crime. These ANIMALS will continue to be in the Underclass until they learn a skill and get a job, something they are unwilling to do. Few Americans were given what they have, most of us have worked for it so they can do the same.

    1. End the war on drugs. This will drastically reduce the violence in the major cities.

      End government regulations on employment that price young blacks out of the workforce and leave them lacking in job experience and the ability to actually earn marketable skills.

      End government monopoly of education that trap blacks in underfunded and poor schools.
      —-

      I do find it funny how you dehumanize a group you don’t like by calling them animals though. When is the last time you called the political elite of this nation animals? They are responsible for far more deaths than the low class criminals.

    2. White racists would rather focus on the less than 1% of the 40 million Blacks who commit violent crime than to focus on the 99% who are law abiding. The fact is that the vast majority of Black Americans are decent, law abiding and hard working individuals. Since 2000, the disposable income of Black Americans has risen to an astounding $1.2 trillion dollars. (Just Research It). Black Americans have made great strides in the fields of science, invention, finance, etc. Just log on to http://www.BlackInventor.com and see the myriad of Black American Inventors and scientists who have changed the world. In fact, Black Americans run some of the biggest companies in America. Did you know that the CEO’s of the $24 Billion McDonalds, the $23 Billion Xerox, $22 Billion Merck & Co, $20 Billion American Express, Red Lobster, Olive Garden and Jamba Juice are all Black American?

  20. Let’s start with a foto of suppossed black man getting choked to death by white cop. The black female cop supervisor standing off to the side just conviently got ‘cropped’ out of the pic.

  21. A bit off-topic but I spotted this meme on the blog Earl of Taint via a post on American Thinker.
    http://earloftaint.com/2014/12…..l-problem/

    1. Saying every bad action done by some level of government is the inevitable result of the evil big government we’ve been warned about is just libertarians being stupid and opportunistic. It’s an argument for no government at all.

      The traditional distinction is blacks favoring the federal government while conservatives champion local government (i.e., cops). The federal government, as opposed to local governments, has tended to treat them a little better. Hence the political attitudes.

      1. //It’s an argument for no government at all.

        No it isn’t.
        It’s an argument the government stop doing such stupid things/policies.

        How about we fix the public schools and stop wasting money with the public unions?

        It took some prying, but I did once manage to get you to admit that public unions negate the basics of democracy that you claim to espouse. The taxpayer didn’t get to vote for extra spending of their money on public employees.

        1. Not sure where this total non sequitur is coming from. I think the disparities in education have a simple cause and simple solution, as you know. Teachers unions are not part of either.

          1. Solution: More government power, more tax payer money, more centralization, more monopoly.

            1. Just more money really. You can hardly describe a better public investment.

              1. Just more money really. You can hardly describe a better public investment.

                Letting people keep that wealth and procure education on the free market would be a better investment. I can’t remember the last time investors were lining up to sink their money into a failing enterprise that offered a, publicly known, guaranteed lack of return.

          2. // Teachers unions are not part of either.

            You’re lying if you claim to believe that. You’re lying to yourself if you really do. You know that shit ain’t true.

            Fucking like 50 administrators, none who teach, all who make 100,000+ per year. Come on.

            Our school system is a failure no matter how you slice it. Why the hell should we try more of the same? Why the hell are you against school vouchers? The government doesn’t tell you where to shop when you get WIC or that other food stamp. Sweden has school vouchers, and you liberals jack off to countries like that.

      2. Saying every bad action done by some level of government is the inevitable result of the evil big government we’ve been warned about is just libertarians being stupid and opportunistic. It’s an argument for no government at all.

        Which of those actions taken weren’t funded by violence and theft? Then I’ll know which actions are necessarily evil from the one’s that aren’t.

  22. And here’s Tony to come along a couple hours after the body’s cold, and stick his dick in every orifice.

    You’re gross, corpse-fucking Tony.

  23. The article aside, I’m annoyed by all these attempts to paint “black people” as a single large, hive mind block.

    Yes blacks strongly represent in criminal populations. But so what? Just because there are a lot of blacks in shitty areas and doing shitty things, that doesn’t mean there are a shit load of blacks in not-shitty areas, living normal middle and upper class lives. The problem is talking about people as a single block, instead of just saying there are sub-cultural trends out there.

    “In any given year, less than 5 percent of African Americans are involved in violent crime as perpetrators or victims.”

    All this talk of black crime makes everyone ignore this basic fact. Then all the people assume that a black person is strongly more likely to be poor and/or a criminal, which further strengthens their othering. It all just fuels racism, from both sides (conservative red-staters and liberals).

    But the fact is not commiting crimes and joining with the rest of society and getting a college degree (maybe) and a job is a choice, same as it is for everyone. And there are plenty of black people, or rather, people who happen to be black, who make this choice.

    Which also means there are plenty of people who also choose to be trash and act like assholes and commite crimes and shit. Trash people all act pretty similar regardless of race; it’s all the same MTV, ballin’ thug whatever overly-macho bullshit subculture, all wearing the same stupid shit and acting

    1. (cont.)

      like assholes. It has nothing to do with race.
      So people who keep themselves subject to crime by remaining in shitty areas or by engaging in crime do indeed have no ones but themselves to blame, regardless of race. There are plenty of affordable areas to move to that have very little crime (especially in New Jersey).

    2. *doesn’t mean there aren’t

    3. Then why are people like the clown who wrote this article and the so-called black leadership always trying to blame these problems on whites?

  24. “Since the early 1990s, arrests of black juveniles have plunged by more than half. In New York City, where Eric Garner was killed by police, the rate of homicides by blacks is down by 80 percent. In Chicago, where most murders are committed by African Americans, the number last year was the lowest since 1965?and this year’s could be lower yet.”

    “Crime and poverty create a vicious cycle: A child raised in a chaotic environment is not likely to learn the habits that foster success. Black children afflicted with these disadvantages often take the wrong path as teens or adults.”

    So which is it, Chapman? You contradict your first premise with the second paragraph. Face it, it comes down to personal responsibility.
    And since the black population has at least doubled since those numbers came out, the results are even better. It’s past time to stop blaming whites for problems the blacks cause themselves through their culture, actions, and their votes.

    And let’s not forget that the people who sold blacks into slavery were other blacks, and they are still at today.

  25. //problems the blacks cause themselves through their culture, actions, and their votes.

    It’s time to stop talking about “blacks” causing “their own problems”, period.

    Some shitty people make shitty choices and get fucked because of them.
    Commit crimes, you gonna get arrested.

    Luckily, tons of people don’t make those choices. You know, like white, brown, yellow, and even blue people. There’s just people

    If there’s one thing those statistics prove, it’s that, that at this point it’s all just people.

    1. It’s time to stop talking about “blacks” causing “their own problems”, period.

      As opposed to talking about how whites cause them? Who causes them, then?

  26. “The epidemic of unarmed blacks being killed by police”

    What epidemic. Cherry-picking a few high-profile events, no matter how tragic, does not equal an epidemic.

  27. You make $27h…good for you! I make up to $85h working from home. My story is that I quit working at shoprite to work online and with a little effort I easily bring in around $45h to $85h?heres a good example of what I’m doing

    BEST HOME BASE FAMILY DEAL … http://WWW.MONEYKIN.COM

  28. it’s funny to notice how blatantly Tony stops commenting in all the sub-threads. He can only really hound the libertarian purists, he has no response when you lobby the more reasonable small-l libertarian truths at him.

    1. Yeah, having no fucking clue what words means makes a reasonable libertarian, as opposed to those purists with their ‘words’ and ‘definitions’. Who needs em? Only the subtle genius of Edwin can handle Tony.

      1. //having no fucking clue what words means

        No, your semantic games do not define words. The words alredy have definitions, you just try to make them way more specialized than they actually are. Which is part of the whole trying to over-compartmentalize concepts. Ultimately it’s stupid and falls apart.

        It’s not just me, it’s Ken Shulz above, too, and others who know better and whom Tony conveniently ceases commenting on.

        For idiots like you, you’re easy pickings for him, because you argue for cockamamie anarcho-capitalism, which has no place in the real world. It just makes Tony feel like he’s making headway, when he’s not, since plenty of us are small-l libertarians who see things much more practically.

        1. I didn’t even get in to ancap policy preferences with Tony, not in recent memory anyways. The knowledge prerequisate is too large to bother. Like with you, you fail to grasp even very basic concepts and terminology and so an in-depth discussion that penetrates further than your elementary understanding is pointless and extremely taxing.

        2. The words alredy have definitions, you just try to make them way more specialized than they actually are.

          words mean things. you should at least try to understand them before you start flapping your gums and telling people that you are the quintessential libertarian.

  29. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: this is not specifically a black/minority problem. This is a police abuse problem. As a teenage girl in a suburban, predominantly white community, I had a middle aged cop push me onto the ground when I wasn’t resisting, cuff me, and pat me down (no option for a female, and here I was a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of middle aged white men and was unfortunately too young and ignorant to realize I could request such a thing) over a *gasp* noise complaint! Needless to say they were told to let me go.

  30. I was kind of worried about the entire thing. I’ve never worked from home, But Yeah, I did just join and all is good. so I will post back how it goes!

    BEST HOME BASE FAMILY DEAL … http://WWW.swipeboss.COM

  31. Of all the reasons to not commit crimes, this community effect has got to be one of the weakest. When you do crime, you hurt people directly more severely than the effect of bringing the cops down on your neighbors or people of your race. So is this just another dumb, insipid Chapmanism, or is there something profound to what he wrote that I don’t get?

  32. “One reason is the shortage of stable families, steady incomes, good schools and safe streets.”

    But the black community is partially responsible for all of that. Many immigrants come without speaking the language and they achieve more. Poor immigrants are way more networked in their own communities than blacks.

    One of the event that triggered the LA riots was the shooting death of a black teen by Korean store owner, who insisted that the girl pay for the drink first. An argument ensued and the owner panicked.

    It just seems to me that African Americans often put themselves in danger in some way. Latinos and Asians don’t resist arrest as much. I’ve anecdotal heard that black women often don’t leave their abusive boyfriends, which was illustrated recently by the Ray Rice incident.

    After the Kelly Thomas murder the voters in Fullerton recalled a number of their city officials. That’s meaningful action by a center right movement who probably stand for limited government. There were no riots and hysteria. At some point the blacks have to support real reforms instead of making a lot of noise.

    1. White racists would rather focus on the less than 1% of the 40 million Blacks who commit violent crime than to focus on the 99% who are law abiding. The fact is that the vast majority of Black Americans are decent, law abiding and hard working individuals. Since 2000, the disposable income of Black Americans has risen to an astounding $1.2 trillion dollars. (Just Research It). Black Americans have made great strides in the fields of science, invention, finance, etc. Just log on to http://www.BlackInventor.com and see the myriad of Black American Inventors and scientists who have changed the world. In fact, Black Americans run some of the biggest companies in America. Did you know that the CEO’s of the $24 Billion McDonalds, the $23 Billion Xerox, $22 Billion Merck & Co, $20 Billion American Express, Red Lobster, Olive Garden and Jamba Juice are all Black American?

      1. Since “TruthTella” decided to spam up this topic, thought I’d jump on this. Let’s start with his/her statement at 12.8.14 @ 5:56PM:

        “We live in a criminal nation, founded by rapists, mass murderers and robbers. Don’t tell me about “Black on Black” crime.”

        Hear that, fellow libertarians? TruthTella hates Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, John Adams, and a lot of other Americans we hold in high regard.

        TruthTella uses his smear of “criminal nation” to distract from the topic under discussion, which is black perpetrated crime in 2014.

        Question for TruthTella: if the founders of the USA were so “criminal,” then by what right do you have to invoke the political concepts they pushed, such as equality, liberty and property rights?

        You can not have it both ways.

        1. Firstly, I did not state that. Obviously you have a reading comprehension problem. The rapper J Electronica stated that and I was simply quoting him.

      2. White racists would rather focus on the less than 1% of the 40 million Blacks who commit violent crime than to focus on the 99% who are law abiding.

        White “racists” are not focusing on alleged “1%” of blacks but on the 25% who are under the criminal justice system (jail, parole, diversion). Granted, many of them are there for victimless crimes, and ought not to have been arrested in the first place. But the reality is that blacks have a violent crime rate several times that of white people. They also form a disparate number of gang members and violent flashmobbers.

        1. You are a complete idiot.. Once again less than 1% of the 40 million Blacks in America commit violent crime. If you want to talk about crime per capita, then consider the fact that Whites make up just 20% of the population of the world but they have committed 85% of the worst atrocities against humanity through out history. FACT! History proves that 20% of the world’s population, the so called Whites, have committed the most violent, murderous and heinous acts throughout history. This can not be denied or refuted! Whites have even brought the entire world to the brink of destruction with their weapons of mass destruction. Another Fact! From slavery to Genocide Whites have proven to be the most violent. 77 million Native Americans were slaughter by whites in America, 20 million whites were killed by other whites under Stalin, 15 million whites were killed by other whites under Hitler during Nazi Germany, and so on and so on

      3. “White racists would rather focus on the less than 1% of the 40 million Blacks who commit violent crime than to focus on the 99% who are law abiding.”

        99% of any group aren’t dangerous criminals or terrorists. It still doesn’t negate the fact that African Americans commit the bulk of violent crimes and often create situations that invite violence.

        It’s not even a given that blacks are stopped more solely because of race. Street stops and complaints against police are relatively rare.

        http://www.nationalreview.com/…..ian-tuttle

        Libs aren’t terribly consistent in their threat assessment. Statistically speaking, I have more chances of being shot down by a black gang than a deranged gunman. And yet, we should only require a sense of perspective for one of them.

    2. White racists would rather focus on the less than 1% of the 40 million Blacks who commit violent crime than to focus on the 99% who are law abiding. The fact is that the vast majority of Black Americans are decent, law abiding and hard working individuals. Since 2000, the disposable income of Black Americans has risen to an astounding $1.2 trillion dollars. (Just Research It). Black Americans have made great strides in the fields of science, invention, finance, etc. Just log on to http://www.BlackInventor.com and see the myriad of Black American Inventors and scientists who have changed the world. In fact, Black Americans run some of the biggest companies in America. Did you know that the CEO’s of the $24 Billion McDonalds, the $23 Billion Xerox, $22 Billion Merck & Co, $20 Billion American Express, Red Lobster, Olive Garden and Jamba Juice are all Black American?

  33. Hard Work or Hardly Working? How White People Got So Rich: THE GOVERNMENT GAVE LAND, MONEY AND GRANTS TO WHITES TO CREATE WEALTH http://www.finalcall.com/artma…..7867.shtml

    “The foundation of American White supremacy sits tenuously on a rickety base of lies and deceptions about how Whites gained their wealth and status. A century and a half after slavery the median wealth of White families is $100,000; for Black families, it’s $25,000. The belief that Whites achieved this 20-1 wealth advantage by HARD WORK is an absurd and a historical fantasy.”

    Nonetheless, the airwaves are filled with the self-righteous pronouncements of Caucasian commentators anxious to “advise” Blacks to “work hard” and to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” if they want to succeed in America. Not only do they seek to invent a fraudulent fairy tale that whitewashes a very bloody legacy, but they also aim to reaffirm the notion that “non-Whites” are naturally inferior and lazy and are thus responsible for having comparatively nothing. The truth is a whole lot nastier than that.

    White folks have been receiving massive welfare or government aid since the early 1900’s. http://www.finalcall.com/artma…..7867.shtml

    1. Just as blacks have been given all sorts of land, money and grants since at least the 1960s — affirmative action, minorities only contracts, black studies programs, corporate programs, the welfare state, and etc., etc. What has been the result? Blacks have high rates of violent crime commission and poverty. Even entire cities such as Detroit have been handed over, and what has been the result? They end up with high rates of crime which in turn drives out the middle class (of all races) and leads to economic self-destruction.

      Since TruthTella has chosen to put this on the table, can he/she explain why there are such disparate outcomes?

  34. PBS DOCUMENTARY: HOW THE GOVERNMENT AIDED IN THE CREATION OF WHITE WEALTH IN AMERICA AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS: http://newsreel.org/guides/race/whiteadv.htm

    Here is an excerpt from the PBS documentary called Race: The Power of Illusion. This documentary shows how the Government gave grants, land and money to Whites to create wealth.

    Many middle-class white people, especially those of us from the suburbs, like to think that we got to where we are today by virtue of our merit – hard work, intelligence, pluck, and maybe a little luck. And while we may be sympathetic to the plight of others, we close down when we hear the words “affirmative action” or “racial preferences.” We worked hard, we made it on our own, the thinking goes, why don’t ‘they’? After all, the Civil Rights Act was enacted almost 40 years ago.

    What we don’t readily acknowledge is that racial preferences have a long, institutional history in this country – a white history. Here are a few ways in which government programs and practices have channeled wealth and opportunities to white people at the expense of others.

    PBS DOCUMENTARY: A Long History of Affirmative Action – For Whites
    http://newsreel.org/guides/race/whiteadv.htm

  35. “In America, the perception is that crimes committed by White people are explained as deviations of the individual but have nothing to do with their race. However, crimes committed by Blacks or Latino’s are somehow attributed to the whole race,” states news columnist and political analyst Edward Whyckoff Williams. There are an estimated 39 million Blacks in the United States. African Americans were arrested for committing 2,940 documented murders in 2012 per the Criminal Justice Information Service Division. Compare that number to the approximately 39 MILLION BLACKS in the country and you will clearly see that only a very small percentage of the Black population participates in criminal activity. Only about 1 percent of African-Americans and no more than 2 percent of Black males will commit a violent crime in a given year, according to a 2013 report entitled Race, Crime and Statistical Malpractice by Timwise.org. Moreover, overall violent crime is down sharply over the last 7 years throughout the country in all cities.

    1. First, “Tim Wise” is a white political hustler who makes a living by telling guilt ridden college students what they want to hear. He’s the last person anyone would go to for an accurate interpretation of statistics.

      As for this statement: “In America, the perception is that crimes committed by White people are explained as deviations of the individual but have nothing to do with their race. However, crimes committed by Blacks or Latino’s are somehow attributed to the whole race,” states news columnist and political analyst Edward Whyckoff Williams.

      Williams makes an unsupported statement. Who makes the claim that white crime is a deviation but black crime is not? Liberal dominated media or academia? Please note that “TruthTella” states elsewhere on this topic that the USA is a “criminal nation” and that all white people benefit “crimes” such as slavery and segregation of a century or two ago. It’s a typical anti-argument which reverses the reality.

      1. Can you prove Tim Wise Wrong in this report: Race, Crime and Statistical Malpractice: How the Right Manipulates White Fear With Bogus Data http://www.timwise.org/2013/08…..ogus-data/ ? ?

      2. KNOW YOUR FACTS! There are 40 million Blacks in America. According to FBI stats, less than 1% of Blacks commit violent crime. PROVE ME WRONG!

  36. Furthermore, let’s break down inner city street crime beyond the so called stats. Most of the murders taking place in major cities like NYC, LA and Chicago are gang related and drug related. It has nothing to do with race. Gang related crime has been a problem going all the way back to the 20?s, 30?s, 40?s, 50?s and 60?s. During those times the gangs were mostly Irish, Italian, Jewish, German, Polish, etc. The murder rate among those gangs was very high. They were responsible for thousands of murders. In fact, the White gangs during those eras invented the whole concept of drive by shootings. The gangs of the past focused on robberies and burglaries. When the White gangs of the 20?s, 30?s, 40?s, 50?s and 60?s were slaughtering each other by the thousands, the media did not label it as “White on White Crime.” Instead, they classified it as “Gangland Crime.” Today, although many white gangs still exist, most of the street gangs are Black and Hispanic. They focus more on drug dealing and gun running as a way to finance their criminal enterprise. However, instead of isolating the gang menace, the mainstream media focuses on all black males as the face of crime. Hence, they label it as “Black on Black Crime” when it is really mostly “GANG RELATED and DRUG RELATED CRIME.”

    1. This is wrong: the media did not label it as “White on White Crime.” Instead, they classified it as “Gangland Crime.

      The media and government of the time identified the ethnic origins of such gang crime. This was a major bone of contention among Italian-Americans who were being confused with the Mafia (and in some cases, lynched for it). In any event, the various Irish, Italian, Jewish, WASP whatever gangs eventually settled down. But black gangs have proliferated in the last several decades at the same time that there has been a massive implementation of civil rights laws, war on poverty, affirmative action, and wars on crime.

      It just may be that by ending the war on drugs the urban gang threat can be reduced. But do we see any serious black politicians or liberal politicians moving to end drug prohibition?

      1. You idiot. The Irish, Italian, Jewish, Polish and German gangs were around for the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and 60’s. That is a very long time. There were not many Black and Latino street gangs around at that time. You need to stop posting at this point because you are embarrassing yourself.

        You are filled with lies.. A logical and intelligent person will quote a stat and then be able to break down the reality beyond the stats. I broke down the Black crime rate by analyzing who is really committing the crime. Any intelligent, independent thinking person can see that I am correct in my analysis. However, you just regurgitate bias stats and racist propaganda..

        1. Wow.

          “TruthTella” is really losing it. First he/she calls people he/she hates “racist;” then it’s “devil;” now it is “idiot.”

          Perhaps when “TruthTella” can make up his/her mind, we can take him/her seriously.

  37. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), a staggering 67% of gun homicides in 2012 were gang-related. The system refuses to eradicate the gang problem because the gangs fuel the multi billion dollar Prison Industrial Complex by supplying it with a steady stream of 1st time and repeat offenders. The real problem with inner city crime is the Gang menace and not all Black males.

    1. The system refuses to eradicate the gang problem because the gangs fuel the multi billion dollar Prison Industrial Complex by supplying it with a steady stream of 1st time and repeat offenders. The real problem with inner city crime is the Gang menace and not all Black males.

      Now TruthTella is getting into conspiracy theory. What “system” are we talking about here? Do you mean federal, state or local police? The courts? Social workers? The universities? All involved in some massive plan to simultaneously ignore criminal gangs while simultaneously conducting mass arrests for the prison-industrial complex?

      And how would the “system” eradicate the gang problem? This might require the jailing of hundreds of thousands of black men, or more SWAT teams deployed into the inner cities, or an expansion of that prison-industrial complex which the writer abjures.

  38. White racists would rather focus on the less than 1% of the 40 million Blacks who commit violent crime than to focus on the 99% who are law abiding. The fact is that the vast majority of Black Americans are decent, law abiding and hard working individuals. Since 2000, the disposable income of Black Americans has risen to an astounding $1.2 trillion dollars. (Just Research It). Black Americans have made great strides in the fields of science, invention, finance, etc. Just log on to http://www.BlackInventor.com and see the myriad of Black American Inventors and scientists who have changed the world. In fact, Black Americans run some of the biggest companies in America. Did you know that the CEO’s of the $24 Billion McDonalds, the $23 Billion Xerox, $22 Billion Merck & Co, $20 Billion American Express, Red Lobster, Olive Garden and Jamba Juice are all Black American?

  39. The mainstream media will never show positive images of Blacks on a regular basis. Positive images have a positive impact and negative images have a negative impact. Pretty soon you will see martial law in Black neighborhoods and the militarization of Black communities. You will see Black folks being arrested in mass numbers and placed in interment camps. And you will not hear an outcry from the general public because people have been conditioned, programmed and brainwashed via the mainstream media propaganda machine to believe that Blacks are public enemy #1.

    1. The mainstream media will never show positive images of Blacks on a regular basis.

      Is this a joke? If so, why is nobody laughing? Movies and television are filled with plenty of positive black role models as scientists, wise men, honest cops, family members, civil rights leaders. Look at the hagiography done for Martin Luther King, jr., and Nelson Mandela.

      Pretty soon you will see martial law in Black neighborhoods and the militarization of Black communities. You will see Black folks being arrested in mass numbers and placed in interment camps.

      You mean like in Ferguson where the cops have sat on the sidelines and let mobs pillage freely?

  40. PROPAGANDA IS THE FIRST STAGE OF ANY MAJOR MILITARY CAMPAIGN! According to the noted psychologist Dr. Umar Johnson “The Goal of Propaganda is to dehumanize the target population to justify aggression against those particular people.” War is being waged on the hood daily via biological warfare, economic warfare, environmental warfare, germ warfare, physical warfare, psychological warfare, and spiritual warfare. It is imperative that we understand what’s going on and fight back through boycotts and other means.

    1. … “The Goal of Propaganda is to dehumanize the target population to justify aggression against those particular people.”

      You mean the way TruthTella dehumanizes white people in order to work hustles for blacks to get affirmative action? Or the propaganda which dehumanizes a white cop for shooting Mr Brown–thereby justifying radical threats to his person and family?

  41. Rudy Giuliani caused a racial firestorm by stating that White cops are needed in Black communities because 93% of Blacks killed in America are killed by other Blacks. He is trying to justify the militarization of Black communities by perpetrating the same old racist fear tactic of the so called “Black Crime Menace.” The term “Black on Black Crime” is just a racist propaganda catch phrase used by the mainstream media to imply that Black people are inherently violent to ignore poverty and inequity. The fact is that crime is a matter of proximity and opportunity, so most crime is White-on-White, Black-on-Black, Brown-on-Brown, etc. Equally important, it must be noted that high crime rates have more to do with class than race. Crime has always been higher in poorer areas across all racial and ethnic lines. Furthermore, when one analyzes “arrest records and conviction records” by race, one must take into consideration the unfair Draconian Rockefeller drug laws.

    1. Giuliani caused a “firestorm” by telling the truth instead of parroting the usual race hustler line.

      As for black communities being “militarized”–who is conning whom? If anything law and order have disintegrated in these communities owing to gang and other violence.

      … the same old racist fear tactic of the so called “Black Crime Menace.”

      Black violent crime rates are several times those of white. And black-on-white violent crime is also conducted at higher rates.

      If it is “racist” to tell the truth, then one must be proud to be a “racist.”

      The fact is that crime is a matter of proximity and opportunity, so most crime is White-on-White, Black-on-Black, Brown-on-Brown, etc.

      Really? So then in a black majority city like Detroit, there is lots of black-on-white crime? How about in post-apartheid South Africa? How many white-on-black farm attacks have been perpetrated?

      What we are getting here is the usual excuse machine to ignore a real problem of (dare I say it) black crime.

  42. Whites commit a large percentage of crime as well but it is not reported a lot in the media. In fact, the actual number of rapes, arsons, child molestation cases, bank robberies, etc are higher among whites. And the White on White murder rate is just as high at 87% according to FBI crime stats. The majority of the poor in America are White, thus most Whites don’t reside in the suburbs. Many of them live in poorer areas and trailer parks. In the last 7 years there has been a 127% increase in Meth addition in those poor White regions which has resulted in a huge spike in crime in those areas. Since whites commit more crime numerically speaking, due to the fact that there are more whites in America, then shouldn’t those crimes be reflected daily in the general mainstream media. But on the contrary, the media only focuses mostly on so called “Black Crime” to paint the Black male as PUBLIC ENEMY #1.

    1. While I think racism accounts for some of the disparities (more specifically in drug related offenses). I think the fact that white poverty is concentrated in more rural areas, rather than urban makes up a large portion of that disparity. The best way to attack this problem is to eliminate laws of a person’s personal choice. I don’t think I should have a say if someone smokes crack, does meth, or marijuana. if the person is able to be functional and useful to me then what he/she does on their spare time is none of my business.

      1. You like most libertarians seem to be millenials who’s view of typical drug use is the guy in his college dorm smoking a joint. While I would agree that this isn’t something to worry about, the typical drug house in a middle income neighborhood attracts all sorts of losers and petty criminals and makes life harder for people with little more to their names than the houses they own.

        That is the big problem with drug legalization to me.

    2. And the White on White murder rate is just as high at 87% according to FBI crime stats.

      87% of what?

      Those same FBI stats show blacks perpetrate c. 50% of murders in the USA. Also, blacks kill white people at higher rates than blacks kill whites. We can also look at stats for armed robbery, sexual assault and other violence crimes and find similar numbers.

      What “TruthTella” is doing is taking a few numbers out of context and then giving them a spin to prove a predetermined ideological assumption.

  43. Race, Crime and Statistical Malpractice: How the Right Manipulates White Fear With Bogus Data by Tim Wise http://www.timwise.org/2013/08…..ogus-data/ ?

  44. FBI: Violent crime is down, but police killing civilians is up http://theweek.com/speedreads/…..ians-is-up


    1. FBI: Violent crime is down, but police killing civilians is up

      A meaningless statement. It just may be that the reason for the drop in violent crime is because of more police killings of “civilians” (an undefined term). In any event, in 2013 the police killed c. 300 “civilians,” a fraction of the violent crime in the USA.

      1. Violent crime is down so much that police officers have been laid off in many cities. White racists like yourself keep talking about a crime epidemic when even the FBI has stated that violent crime is at record lows.

        FBI: Violent crime drops, reaches 1970s level http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..story.html ?

        1. Wow.

          “TruthTella” knows a big word–“racist!”

          i.e., he/she has no argument so must resort to name calling. One more example of his/her intellectual bankruptcy.

  45. When the Bureau of Justice Statistics collected homicidal rates from 1980 to 2008, they found that compared to Blacks, Whites were more likely to kill children, the elderly, family members, and their significant others. They commit more sex-related crimes, gang related crimes, and are more likely to kill at their places of employment.

    In the United States, a White person is almost six times more likely to be killed by another White person than by a Black person, according to FBI homicide data. In 2011, there were more cases of Whites killing Whites than there were Blacks killing Blacks. However, the mainstream media obsesses over Black on Black violence and rarely mentions the problem of White on White violence.
    http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

    1. Again, the black perpetrated violent crime rate is several times higher than the white perpetrated rate. And there is a very high rate of black-on-white crime, while the converse is not so. The stats posted by “TruthTell” demonstrate this.

      Yet the race hustlers and media will make a major production out of isolated white-on-black crimes (e.g., James Byrd) while ignoring routine black-on-white crime (e.g., Zemir Begic).

      Let’s also note that blacks commit a large number of driveby shootings and flashmob attacks. And their victims are strangers, or members of other races.

      Yet the media covers these up by referring to the perpetrators as “teens” or “youth.” And many of their victims are other black people. But this does not fit into the profile of a “racist” America, so they go down the memory hole.

  46. The exacting truth is that white Americans are more likely to be killed by other whites. According to Justice Department statistics, 86 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

    The truth is as the largest racial group, whites commit the majority of crimes in America in terms of actual numbers. In particular, whites are responsible for the vast majority of violent crimes. With respect to aggravated assault, whites led blacks 2-1 in arrests; in forcible-rape cases, whites led all racial and ethnic groups by more than 2-1. And in larceny theft, whites led blacks, again, more than 2-1.
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cj…..s/table-43

    1. whites led all racial and ethnic groups by more than 2-1.

      Except that there are c 6 times as many whites as blacks in the USA. So what “TruthTella” is saying is that blacks have a violent crime rate c 3 times that of blacks. This is a good enough reason to see this as a problem.

      QED.

      1. KNOW YOUR FACTS! There are 40 million Blacks in America. According to FBI stats, less than 1% of Blacks commit violent crime. YOU RACIST DEVIL.. YOU ARE MAD BECAUSE YOUR RACIST PROPAGANDA IS BEING DESTROYED BEFORE YOUR EYES.

        1. YOU RACIST DEVIL.. YOU ARE MAD BECAUSE YOUR RACIST PROPAGANDA IS BEING DESTROYED BEFORE YOUR EYES.

          Mad? Who is using all CAPS to throw an online tantrum? Not me. Not the other sane people on this topic.

  47. I completely agree with this article. Violent crime is way down and it’s not because of Police Officers stopping and frisking individuals and violating their rights as Police tend to be a reactionary force but it’s likely due to the falling popularity of “crack” cocaine which results in a loss of purchasing power for gangs. The major problem affecting the black community from my personal experiences (I’m a black guy from Detroit) is the War on Drugs that has resulted in millions of African Americans being unable to find jobs due to the felony on their record. If a Felon can’t find a job or any kind of financial security tends to get remitted into prison. Crime should be more restricted to more rigid areas of “Personal” and “Property” in my opinion

    1. Is that the reason they can’t find jobs or is it because those that have a felony on their record were heavily into gangs and drugs and never did acquire any job skills when they were school age?

  48. “We live in a criminal nation, founded by rapists, mass murderers and robbers. Don’t tell me about “Black on Black” crime.” – Jay Electronica… They butchered the Native Americans, Enslaved The Blacks and Then Built Churches on Stolen Land and proclaimed “In God We Trust.” Sadly, America was built on violence. America’s foundation is violence. America glorifies gangsterism and gangsters like Jesse James, John Gotti, Ma Barker, Bonnie and Clyde, Pretty Boy Floyd, Dutch Shultz, Bugsy Siegel, John Dillenger, Al Capone, Machine Gun Kelly etc, The end result are men like John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Ted Kaczynski, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes and many more. But America degrades Gangsta Rap. That’s hypocritical. Even the Kennedy’s made their fortune from Bootlegging and violence. And some of the other Robber Barons did as well.

    1. And so we return to “We live in a criminal nation, founded by rapists, mass murderers and robbers. Don’t tell me about “Black on Black” crime.” – Jay Electronica… “

      If so, then why do we see millions of blacks mass migrating from their own majority rule countries to the terrible USA where they will be subjected to “racism,” militarized cops, and the potential of all being locked up in FEMA camps? Why is it that blacks from countries like Haiti are willing to risk their lives crossing the sea to get to that terribly violent country of America? Come to think of it, if America is so terrible, why don’t we see millions of blacks emigrating to any of the black majority countries of the Caribbean or Africa where they will not have to put up with racism, repression and negative media images?

      What is it that your average black sees that seems to be missed by “TruthTella?”

      1. You devils have raped, robbed and murder the entire Earth, so folks are coming here to take back that which you have stolen. But ask them if they love America and they will say hell no. Truth is most immigrants can’t stand American whites. They know you have a Bloody history.

        1. You devils have raped, robbed and murder the entire Earth, so folks are coming here to take back that which you have stolen. But ask them if they love America and they will say hell no. Truth is most immigrants can’t stand American whites. They know you have a Bloody history.

          Please note note that “TruthTella” is engaging in barnyard collectivism. He/she states that all white people are collectively responsible for all actions of all white people at all times.

          He/she also is implying that the real reason for mass third world migration into the USA (and presumably Europe) is really an invasion to seize property without due process which they believe is owed to them.

          And oh yes, all white people are “devils.” That includes many people on this topic, as well as their families.

          Of course, most immigrants do not believe that they are owed so much as a free lunch. But again, via the magic of barnyard collectivism, “TruthTella” is attributing groupthink to third world immigrants.

          It’s an insight into the real agenda behind the party line which he/she is parroting.

  49. KNOW YOUR FACTS! There are 40 million Blacks in America. According to FBI stats, less than 1% of Blacks commit violent crime.

  50. In 1958?a time of lynchings, universal discrimination and legal segregation

    Do you know how many lynchings there were in the USA in 1958? Check here:

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/p…..gyear.html

    The number looks to be “zero.”

    The total number of blacks lynched 1882-1968 was 3445 (i.e., an era largely marked by segregation). That’s less than the number of black perpetrated murders every year in the USA.

    I’d also point out that by 1958, “legal segregation” was being dismantled (Brown vs Board of Education was 1954, Eisenhower used federal troops in Little Rock in 1957, etc.).

    What’s disturbing is that REASON chose to run an article which pushes a liberal environmental-determinist explanation for black crime. i.e., people have no moral agency but are only responding to discrimination, poverty, etc., etc.

    REASON must be getting desperate if it can not use libertarian arguments to deal with the issue.

  51. The bias in this partially reasonable article is obviated by this statement: “The epidemic of unarmed blacks being killed by police comes not when black crime is high but when it is low.” As the facts irrefutably prove, not only is there no such epidemic, the numbers are nowhere near ‘epidemic’ proportions. Stop furthering this false narrative, Mr. Chapman.

  52. What is really behind the Fear of Black Males. First of all, White men know that mostly everything they have has come as a result of rape, robbery , murder and slavery and from the exploitation of people of color. 98% of the money in America is Blood money going all the way back to the institution of slavery. Most of the Whites of today have benefited off of the inequity of their forefathers. They fear that Blacks will retaliate against them for all of the wicked deeds that they have done to Blacks over hundreds of years. Secondly, many White men put so much emphasis on money to compensate for the bankruptcy of their soul and for the fact that they have a small penis. They Fear and Envy Black Men, because they don’t measure up. Why is it that white men spend over $1 Billion per year on sun tanning products and over $1 Billion per year on Male enhancement drugs and penis enlargements. Once again, they envy Black men so much to the point that they want to try to “appear” Black.

    1. Now the mask has dropped, and “TruthTella” is no longer interesting in a rational debate re crime statistics. Instead, he/she goes off on an irrational screed attacking all white people.

      But if what “TruthTella” expounds is true, then wouldn’t white people have a legit reason to “fear” blacks? Are white people to sit back and let people like “TruthTella” with an obvious looter mentality seize their property and assault their persons? If one wanted to justify white people arming up, forming militias, and putting the boot on blacks, “TruthTellla’s” rant would be Evidence Item #1.

      Of course, most black people do not agree with “TruthTella.” What he represents is a marginalized position, given publicity largely by white “activists” and ratings hungry media chiefs who want to pit blacks against whites…as is currently playing out in the streets of Ferguson.

  53. If you want to talk about crime per capita, then consider the fact that Whites make up just 20% of the population of the world but they have committed 85% of the worst atrocities against humanity through out history. FACT! History proves that 20% of the world’s population, the so called Whites, have committed the most violent, murderous and heinous acts throughout history. This can not be denied or refuted! Whites have even brought the entire world to the brink of destruction with their weapons of mass destruction. Another Fact! From slavery to Genocide Whites have proven to be the most violent. 77 million Native Americans were slaughter by whites in America, 20 million whites were killed by other whites under Stalin, 15 million whites were killed by other whites under Hitler during Nazi Germany, and so on and so on.

  54. Message to the White man: Put down the Meth pipe, stop molesting little boys, stop being serial killers, quit beating your wives, stop killing relatives to collect the insurance money, quit creating ponzi schemes, stop looking for prostitutes on Craigs List, stop committing incest, stop jacking off to pictures of OJ in handcuffs, stop getting sun tans and peni$ enlargements, put down the Prozac & Zoloft, stop committing suicide, stop shooting up schools and movie theaters and stop sodomizing the family dog.

  55. The wicked “White power Structure” has brought the entire Earth to the brink of destruction. They created weapons of mass destruction, they destroyed the ozone layer and the rain forests, they dump toxic waste in the oceans, and they start wars to rob countries of their diamonds, gold, oil, and other mineral resources.

    1. Then you should move to a paradise like Zimbabwe where the wicked white power structure has been removed by a black majority marxist government. You can benefit from Mugabe’s enlightened policies which have removed most traces of white “racist” rule, including such deviltries as stable currency, property rights, the ability to grow enough food to feed yourself, and due process of law.

      Because Zimbabwe (or Liberia or Haiti or etc.) is precisely what you get when you remove the technology, the industry, and the rule of law which capitalism brings.

    2. While the wicked “Black power Structure” in African countries ruled by them brings genocide to a whole new level, corruption that is unprecedented, and blacks acting like 7th century barbarians encouraging their children to become killers. They are like the Islamists where tribal warfare has killed their own people for hundreds of years. The most despotic and mass murderers in human history have been black leaders of black countries like Mugabee. And what has Africa contributed to the world? Nothing. Yet those wicked white people throughout the world have contributed them trillions of dollars in charity,for decades, gone to their countries to educate them, and have worked for decades to try to bring them out of their savagery and into the 20-21st century.

  56. If white men are such great family men, as some of the posters have eluded to, then Why are White women divorcing white men at an alarming 67% divorce rate? Why do White men commit for 94% of all documented cases of child molestation and incest? Why do so many white kids use drugs and commit suicide? Why are so many White women killing their spouses as is documented on The Oxygen Network’s critically acclaimed show called “Snapped” which chronicles real life situations of white women who snapped and killed their husbands?

    1. Now we see “TruthTella” engaged in a pathetic attempt to pit white men against white women. The Oxygen Network engages in anti-male propaganda by demonizing men and glorifying women who commit criminal acts. Just as the divorce-industrial complex has financial reasons to break up marriage. Much of this goes back to the same factors which motivate “TruthTella”–a pathological hatred of white men.

      How do libertarians feel about the “TruthTellas” of the world doing everything in their power to denigrate them?

      And might “TruthTella,” if he/she engage in a moment of lucidity, perhaps understand that the more he/she engages in these diatribes, the more white people will be pushed into law and order policies which result in even more blacks falling into the clutches of the prison-industrial complex?

  57. There is a reason more young, black males are shot by police in disproportionate numbers compared to young, white males. Because there are disproportionate numbers of young, black criminals than young white criminals. Sorry, Sharpton, but that is just a simple fact. The problem with violence in the young, male black community is the young, black male community. And there is something we can do to make sure these shootings decrease. Fix your community. You, not the whites, Jackson. Not the police Sharpton. Not the justice system, Van Jones. Because you’re the problem here. Because this is a race issue. And the color in disproportionate numbers in the young criminal element is black. It isn’t yellow. It isn’t white. It’s black. Period.

    You want change, Sharpton–start with your community.

    Charles Hurst. Author of THE SECOND FALL. An offbeat story of Armageddon. And creator of THE RUNNINGWOLF EZINE

  58. “Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue…that we couldn’t resist it.” – John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale for the War on Drugs.

    1. What’s interesting is that the Democrats, who supposedly stand up for the young, poor and blacks, have supported the war on drugs whole hog from day one.

      Also interesting is that the groups which are supposedly being targeted by the war on drugs (young, poor, black) are not signing up en masse for the Libertarian Party. If people are going to vote for their own self destruction, then can you feel much sympathy when they are marched off to jail?

  59. Discussions of this problem are hampered by recent events. The NYPD killing of an unarmed and non-threatening criminal (yes, criminal) is truly an overreaction worthy of some sort of discipline (prosecution, loss of job, etc.). However the Missouri event has been mischaracterized. The reason the Grand Jury found the officer had not committed a crime is that the physical evidence, the officers testimony and the testimony of 6 witnesses are in agreement that M. Brown was a scumbag, high on drugs who reached in the car and tried to take the officers gun and then charged the officer. I think the officer was totally within the bounds that have been established for police conduct.
    Most stories simply note how many black men die at the hands of police without having any idea what category the killings represent. How many NYPD-type killings occur? Nobody has any idea.

  60. There is a difference between blaming the African American race as a whole for police action against their members and pointing out that the high level of black on black crime complicates finding a solution. The simplest solutions involve cracking down on police abuse, but if that extends too far and makes it difficult for police officers to do their job (after all, cracking down on other crimes rarely just impacts the guilty; innocents always do get caught up in it), that could easily increase levels of crime. And when African Americans are disproportionately likely to be victims of crime, they could come out even worse as a group.

    This doesn’t mean nothing should be done. But rather that care needs to be taken with any solution so that it protects people from abuses of law enforcement but still allows law enforcement to do their job.

  61. There is a difference between blaming the African American race as a whole for police action against their members and pointing out that the high level of black on black crime complicates finding a solution.

    Exactly.

  62. Where does it say how white people created the problem of black crime?

  63. This is a horribly biased article. To “suggest” people who are “white” and bring to light the facts are bigots is more of the irresponsible rhetoric we are bombarded with. While the author accuses “whites” of not accepting the consequences of their long ago actions he simultaneously blames them for the circumstances within the “African American” community. And is he crazy in citing that “less than 5% of African Americans are involved in violent crime as perpetrators or victims” as a reassuring statistic: think about it, that means in 10 to 15 years HALF of all African Americans will be involved in violent crime! That is simply awful by any standard.

  64. Truth Tella – There are MANY more whites than blacks. There are twice as many blacks as Asian immigrants. Think about that.

    The police do not typically keep data on police shooting. But even if we assume that there’s a thousand police shooting a year, many of that will legitimate actions taken to protect public safety (burglary, homicide). Street stops are rare and complaints are few (just under 10 thou filed complaints out of 1.45 mil individuals stopped)

    http://www.nationalreview.com/…..ian-tuttle

    1% of a 40 mil is still 400,000 people, and anyone with a weapon or even a car can murder multiple individuals. If even 80% of all police shootings on black criminals are justified, then the casualty numbers aren’t all that damning.

  65. There is no “epidemic” of police shootings. It is true that only 5% of black males are involved in crime, yet they account for 68% of the violent crime committed in the US. In 2013, 461 suspects were killed by police. 29 officers were killed by suspects. On the surface that seems way out of balance. However, when you as the number of officers injured by suspects, 49,871, the picture changes. 7901 officers were shot by suspects which is a ratio of 17 officers being shot for every one suspect who is shot and killed. Think about that before claiming there is an epidemic.

  66. What kind of discussion can there be when the race baiters such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson cry racist whenever anyone (such as Bill Cosby)articulates the truth that the black communities that are impoverished is due to the fact they are made up of mostly unmarried women with mostly illegitimate children with no fathers present, no role models, and taught day in and day out that the white man is always a racist?

  67. So let me understand: the premise of comparatively high black-on-black crime rates this article takes issue with turns out to be absolutely true. And it admits that high black crime has been a problem for almost 60 years.

    But it’s white people’s fault, even though other poor minorities don’t have the same high crime rates.

    It claims there’s a recent “epidemic” of white police killings of blacks, but offers no proof of this. There’s certainly more publicity when one happens, but no proof that it’s happening more often.

    It claims that this epidemic exists despite falling black crime rates. But overall crime rates have fallen dramatically for all groups during this period, so there’s nothing unique about black crime which hasn’t fallen as a percentage of overall crime. And lower crime rates in a high crime demographic doesn’t mean it’s no longer a high crime demographic; it clearly is the highest, hence Giuliani is absolutely right.

    The article’s implicit prescription is that only whites can lower black crime rates. Presumably through more social programs, etc… But this prescription has continued to fail, time and time again. Which leaves it up to the black community to take it’s own crime rates seriously, and to present real role models for their kids instead of the sad lineup of corrupt gangsters, superficial rappers and knee-jerk black-entitlement activists that currently hold those positions.

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