What Reason TV Saw at the NYC Eric Garner Protest

Reason TV's original reporting on the New York City protests this week.

Originally published Dec. 3, 2014. Text below:

Protesters packed the streets of Midtown Manhattan tonight to protest today's announcement that a grand jury had declined to indict the NYPD officer who killed an unarmed man named Eric Garner last July by choking him with a nightstick after he resisted arrest.

The protest began at 4:30pm with a "die-in" staged at Grand Central Terminal, in which about 20 people lay down on the floor in the middle of the commuter hub. After about an hour had passed, the protesters rose to their feet changing, "I can't breathe," echoing the words of Eric Garner as he was asphyxiated.

The demonstration moved to Times Square, and then towards Rockefeller Center. The protesters blocked traffic and attempted to disrupt the annual Christmas tree lighting ceremony, but the NYPD kept them at bay by throwing up gates around the site.

Shot and edited by Jim Epstein. Approximately 2 minutes.

Comments

[RBS]

#?blacklivesmatter?. And if you're feeling the urge to reply with anything similar to alllivesmatter, do us both a favor and unfriend me. I am so unfathomably tired of the injustice, and I honestly don't know how people live this terrifying reality every single day. If this had happened to me, there would be charges. If I were Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman would be in jail. If I were Marissa Alexander, I'd be praised for protecting myself and my family. I seriously don't understand.

The Guilt is strong with this one.

[Suthenboy]

I would be pretty enthusiastic about unfriending that person, that is if I had friends.

[RBS]

I just can't wrap my head around the collective guilt that so many people feel. Or picking some real shitbags as the basis for it. Or ignoring the reality that this shit happens to people of all colors. I guess what I am saying is, after being a regular reader of reason since 2006, I still do not understand the mental gymnastics these people do.

[Lady Bertrum]

Cops are sometimes authoritarian thugs and brownshirts for the state.

That said, this person makes me hate guilt ridden white people.

[F. Stupidity, Jr.]

#?blacklivesmatter?. And if you're feeling the urge to reply with anything similar to alllivesmatter, do us both a favor and unfriend me.

Must...signal!...Not...racist!

[Zeb]

Collective guilt is a really weird thing. It certainly appears to be true that police are more likely to fuck with black people for no good reason and are more aggressive in interactions with. And I think it is good to acknowledge and think about the various historical reasons and current attitudes that contribute to why things have ended up that way. But poor white people and people of all races and color have to deal with the same shit too.

But the problems aren't going to be solved by obsessing about race and rooting out petty racism. Someone here made a good point the other day, that incidents like the death of Eric Garner aren't going to be eliminated by convincing the police not to be racist. That is a good goal to have, but not something that is going to be accomplished through a bit of extra training or stern lectures. The thing that will help in the short term is to get rid of the petty bullshit (like selling loosies) that police can use an excuse to fuck with people.

[Rebel Scum]

#?blacklivesmatter?. And if you're feeling the urge to reply with anything similar to alllivesmatter, do us both a favor and unfriend me

I take this to mean that not all lives matter, just black ones. Are these words organized in this way not racist by definition?

If I were Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman would be in jail.

No, If you were Treyvon Martin, you would be dead and George Z. would have still been found not-guilty because self-defense.

[Ken Shultz]

"I take this to mean that not all lives matter, just black ones. Are these words organized in this way not racist by definition?"

It's hard for us younger people to remember that an awful lot of the people who are still alive today were alive during Jim Crow and segregation.

That stuff wasn't something that happened in the history books. If you were a baby-boomer--you were old enough to remember what it was like during Jim Crow. And if you're black and you're that age--you remember what it was like when the government didn't bother with complaints by black people against white police officers.

It is not unreasonable for people who were traditionally discriminated against becasue of their race--specifically by the police--to suspect that the reason the police are unaccountable when a black person is strangled to death by a white cop on camera may have something to do with the race of the victim.

Like I've said, I'm more likely to blame the fact that district attorneys are often elected on the basis of a police union endorsement, but that doesn't mean I can't understand why black people might look at this situation and think this might have something to do with racism.

To a certain extent, this is about racism. Why do people tolerate the militarization of the police? Why do people tolerate the Drug War. Can you honestly say that acceptance has nothing to do with the burden falling disproportionately on black people?

[Rebel Scum]

the Drug War

The intentions are not racist, just totalitarian. The results may be perceived as racist, however. I only implied that all individual lives should matter and not based on skin pigment. Also, the concern of the person I quoted is flawed for that very reason. As has been stated by many here, the unrest over the Garner incident does not acknowledge the fundamental premise of police militarization and unaccountability in the use of force in instances that should otherwise be considered criminal acts. Unfortunately, race-baiting has co-opted any discussion of the core issue and I see no reason to feed the beast by promoting a racial angle.

[Ken Shultz]

"As has been stated by many here, the unrest over the Garner incident does not acknowledge the fundamental premise of police militarization and unaccountability in the use of force in instances that should otherwise be considered criminal acts."

Yeah, a lot of them don't know about that stuff, and they don't know what libertarians think about that stuff, either.

So, we're going to have to tell them about it. And that's a great reason to make a donation to Reason.

[Mike M.]

Mary Landrieu getting stomped by more than 20 points in the Real Clear Politics polling average on the day that Louisiana heads back to the polls.

I'm going to go way out on a limb and say that I think she's probably going to lose.

[John]

She has stolen at least one election thanks to the Democratic fraud machine. I am so happy to see that bitch go down. Landrieu is really a case study in everything that is loathsome about our political class. She is from a political family and had her career handed to her thanks to her family connections. She has never done anything in her adule life except for run for and hold public office. She is a lying sack of shit who at election time pretends to be a sensible moderate only to vote exactly like the hard left Democratic leadership and her big money backers tell her to vote once in office. She plays the "women" card at every opportunity.

I have no idea what the guy who is replacing her is like. But her public career coming to an end is an unqualified good thing.

[Mike M.]

The poor Dave Weigels of the world can't even spin her ass-kicking with the standard "she was a lousy candidate" trope, given that she has been in the senate for 18 years.

The only spin the Journolist scum can put on this one is the standard-issue "racist whites" spin, because they know full well she's getting destroyed because Obama and his policies are hated now.

[Lyle]

He's a doctor. Ipso facto he's had to do more with his life than Landrieu has.

[Cdr Lytton]

The good news is all those "Stand with Mary" signs can be reused with a Hilary sticker.

Too bad she can't take her brother with her.

[Ken Shultz]

I'm usually the last guy to suggest politics as a solution to our problems, but in this case, partisan politics really is the problem--and it may require a solution rooted in politics.

Elected district attorneys won't go after cops, whose union endorsements are so crucial to their reelection bids. Meanwhile, whether it's the Teamsters or some other union that's representing the police, the unions are probably the most important Democrat constituency. The Democratic machines that run our major cities all over the country aren't about to turn on their most important constituency. So we're left with the spectacle of inner city voters begging the very Democrat politicians who are, literally, letting the police get away with murder.

That should present a golden opportunity for the Republicans--but the establishment Republican leadership is so painfully obtuse, they wouldn't know an opportunity to change the game if it marched down the middle of the street chanting "I can't breathe". Meanwhile, most of the Republican wannabe nominees are probably sitting on their hands, knowing that the social conservatives in the Republican Party are watching on TV hoping this turns violent...so they can scratch their racist itch.

[Adans smith]

Ken,both sides love the police state,one side is afraid of TERROR and one, people eating and smoking and using their property like they wish.Both side are pissed when someone some where is having a good time,with out harm to others,that they disapprove of,be it drugs,food ,smoking, using oil,gas,coal , sex ect.

[Ken Shultz]

I appreciate that.

I wish more people appreciated that minorities are being victimized because our cities are basically a one party state.

They must realize` the politicians they elect--becasue they're not racist Republicans--are the same ones who are supported by the police unions.

But that leaves them with nobody. When we see them demonstrating against the police in a futile attempt to influence the very same Democrats the police union supports, we shouldn't point out how stupid they are for not flocking to the Republican party.

...not if the Republican party is too stupid to embrace them.

You gotta give people a reason to come to your new restaurant instead of the one they've been going to for years. You don't just stand there quietly in your empty restaurant and blame them for being stupid.

This is the stuff that opportunities are made of. And, yeah, when I visit chatrooms elsewhere, what I see is a sea of Republican constituents drunk on racial condescension over Ferguson and anxious for this situation to blow up the same way. ...as if black people rioting somehow validates their Republican opinion--of black people.

If this is the way Republican constituents think, they deserve to lose. The Republicans shouldn't just embrace Rand Paul because he's libertarian--they should embrace Rand Paul to save themselves from themselves. Watching establishment Republicans react to this situation is like watching lunatics stab themselves.

[John]

That is why they pick cases like Ferguson to publicize Ken and not cases where the victim is sympathetic and the police misconduct clear cut. If they choose the later cases, white people would be outraged too and the Demcoratic Party couldn't use the case to convince blacks Republicans hate them.

There is no "racial condescension" going on with regard to Ferguson. The rent a mob who were burning stores are piece of shit criminals and fascists.

The GOP needs to find real victims of police abuse and publicize those cases. Do that and watch the Democrats squirm as they are no longer able to use these cases to tag the Republicans as racists and have to instead answer for the police state they have created.

[Ken Shultz]

"The GOP needs to find real victims of police abuse and publicize those cases."

1) The GOP needs to use whatever resonates with voters--whether their socially conservative support groks it or not.

2) You don't think a man being strangled to death by a cop on camera constitutes a real victim of police abuse?

[John]

Ken,

In the world outside of your head, Republicans are making a huge deal out of Garner. Is the National Review, which has been all over the story, not a Republican publication?

Can you think about any issue without doing it through the lens of "all facts must confirm my bigotry against SOCONS"?

[Ken Shultz]

Is all this really just because you don't like me saying something against the GOP?

It's not enough that I eviscerated the Democratic Party for being the puppets of the Teamsters and other public employee unions that are holding DA's and other Democrats hostage all across the country...

No, I called out the establishment Republican leadership and the racists who support them from within whatever socially conservative Republican mini-constituency--and that can't be tolerated!

Is that what's going on here, John.

Because if I give two shits about the GOP it's only because:

1) They're better than Obama (but then so is herpes)

2) Rand Paul is running for the nomination.

[John]

Ken,

The GOP establishment are a bunch of phony crooks who would like to not make too many waves while they quietly steal for a living.

But calling them "racist" is fucking retarded. That is nothing but horseshit Prog talking points.

[Ken Shultz]

I didn't call the GOP establishment racist.

I did say there are socially conservative racist voters within their constituency--and I think the prospective nominees are being reserved about this opportunity for fear of alienating those voters during the primaries.

[John]

I did say there are socially conservative racist voters within their constituency-

Ken has a list of communists, I mean racists, within the Republican Party!!

[VG Zaytsev]

Mainstream republicans are too frozen n the tough on crime mindset that worked for them in the 70s and 80s to ever run on policing reform, even though the cops, through their unions are an important part of the dem base. The democrat mainstream media is another block on political - police reform by running agit prop pieces celebrating thug 'victims' while ignoring the larger number of true innocents killed by cops.

The republicans really are the stupid party. If they ran against police abuse and for IP reform they'd crack the dem base coalition. Yet they won't attack either, even though those groups are uniformly opposed to republicans. It's a type of insanity, or something.

[John]

It is not that simple VG. You are right about the mindset. But that mindset didn't come from nowhere. It came from the 1970s when Progressive experiments in criminal justice damn near destroyed the fabric of the country.

The problem is that the pendulum has swung way too far back the other way but a lot of people don't realize that. It is easy to say they should campaign on police reform but it would alienate a lot of their supporters and it remains to be seen how many Democratic voters would actually switch sides over the issue rather than think it is nice that the GOP is supporting the cause and vote Democratic anyway.

Also, a lot of Cops are Republicans and a police unions are not stupid and give money to both sides. I only wish it were as simple as you describe.

[Marshall Gill]

John, I read a number of conservatives yesterday who basically said "well, these guys were criminals and the police have it tough so no foul"

A friend told me he heard Rush say the same thing. The comments sections were full of people who said that they were criminals and had it coming to them. Andrew McCarthy and Pat Buchanan said pretty much the same thing.

I am not saying it is racist. I think that it is basically classist. As you have said repeatedly, most of the middle class never interacts with LEOs and don't think it would happen unless "the cops had a good reason".

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"the social conservatives in the Republican Party are watching on TV hoping this turns violent...so they can scratch their racist itch."

You have got to be kidding me! Where's the evidence that SoCons (and many "people of color" are SoCons) are more racist than others.

I imagine some SoCons support the police on this, because of what they see on TV - race-baiting opportunists exploiting tragic events and twinning Eric Garner with the far-less-sympathetic Michael Brown.

The people wanting violence are (a) the rioters and (b) the social-justice crowd, who will get to point to the riots as Symptoms of Underlying Conditions which Government Must Redress.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I did what perhaps you ought to have done - went to a SoCon publication and put "Eric Garner" in the search engine. Here is what I found (note the praise for Al Sharpton):

http://www.firstthings.com/blo.....ten-island

[Notorious G.K.C.]

(It's from August)

[Ken Shultz]

"You have got to be kidding me! Where's the evidence that SoCons (and many "people of color" are SoCons) are more racist than others."

If I had five cents for every time someone in a major website chatroom said something over the last week about how black people make up a disproportionate number of the people in jail or that black people are more likely to be murdered by other black people than they are by a white cop, I could finish off the Reason webathon right now.

They're destroying their own communities!

It makes me sick every time I hear that shit--as if it has anything to do with why black people are disproportionately policed, targeted and convicted in the Drug War, as if it had anything to do with the militarization of our police force, with the police unions effectively making it impossible to hold police officers accountable for choking a man to death on camera, etc., etc.

Do I think social conservatives (especially of the older generation) have a problem with black people? Yeah, I do. I suspect they don't have an especially warm spot in their hearts for gay people either.

[John]

If I had five cents for every time someone in a major website chatroom said something over the last week about how black people make up a disproportionate number of the people in jail or that black people are more likely to be murdered by other black people than they are by a white cop, I could finish off the Reason webathon right now.

All of that is true Ken. If certain truths harm your delicate sensibilities such that you can't be exposed to them, you need to take your sorry ass over to the Progressive forums and stop coming here, because that is now how the non-Progressive world operates. Outside the prog hive, the truth is what it is and anyone is free to point it out regardless of whether it makes someone else feel bad.

Seriously, have you lost your fucking mind?

[Ken Shultz]

"If I had five cents for every time someone in a major website chatroom said something over the last week about how black people make up a disproportionate number of the people in jail or that black people are more likely to be murdered by other black people than they are by a white cop, I could finish off the Reason webathon right now."

If all that's true, it has nothing to do with the real issues.

If you think blaming the Drug War on the black race is libertarian?

If you think blaming the militarization of our police force on the black race is libertarian?

If you think blaming the police unions on the black race is libertarian?

Then not only are you wrong, not only should you refresh what libertarianism is in your mind, but also--you might be a racist!

[John]

I am pretty sure mobs of people burning shit down is a "real issue" Ken. And pointing out that the welfare state and the drug war has done horrific things to the black community is blaming the drug war on them.

[VG Zaytsev]

Ken this is race baiting bullshit.

Up until a few months ago I would have said that it was beneath you.

I've come to realize that it isn't.

[Ken Shultz]

"Ken this is race baiting bullshit."

Race-baiting bullshit?

It was a direct response to something someone said!

Someone wanted to know why I suggested that blaming these things on blacks is ugly, stupid, and racist--and I answered.

How is that race-baiting bullshit?

[VG Zaytsev]

If you think blaming the Drug War on the black race is libertarian?

If you think blaming the militarization of our police force on the black race is libertarian?

No one here, or anywhere that I've ever seen has blamed police militarization or the drug war on the black race.

Insinuating that any has is a race baiting strawman.

[Ken Shultz]

You may need to work on your reading comprehension skills...

http://reason.com/blog/2014/12.....nt_4950111

...but it's more likely that you're so sensitive to charges of racism, that you just can't think straight when someone brings up the topic.

I've seen you fall apart before on this topic.

[VG Zaytsev]

Wow, so you citing your own assertion as proof that some people blame the black race for anything at all.

Stunning, absolutely stunning.

[The Whole Truth]

Ken is off his meds again.

[Ken Shultz]

Tulpa?

Is that you, Tulpa?

Seems like you drop by every Saturday!

Hi, Tulpa!

[The Whole Truth]

Yeah that'll make you look better.

[John]

Do I think social conservatives (especially of the older generation) have a problem with black people? Yeah, I do. I suspect they don't have an especially warm spot in their hearts for gay people either.

That just means you are a fucking moron Ken. It doesn't mean anything you say is actually true.

[Virginian]

He feels it is true, therefore it is.

[John]

There are so many criticisms to be made about SOCONS. To go with the "THEY ARE THE RACIST!!" trope is just fucking pathetic.

[VG Zaytsev]

They're sexist, homophobic xenophobes too!!1

/ Ken
/ Botard

[Ken Shultz]

Social conservatism has been typically racist in character since before the Dixiecrats all went Republican.

The suggestion that social conservatives might be hostile to the rights of gay people is so inane, it's ridiculous.

[John]

Social conservatism has been typically racist in character since before the Dixiecrats all went Republican.

Ken the most racist cities in America are in the Northeast. And since when is wanting to "ban porn and gambling" racist?

And you know who as a group are the most "socially conservative" voters in America? Black people Ken. They are called "black churches" you might have heard of them if you didn't have your head so far up your ass.

[Virginian]

They are called "black churches" you might have heard of them if you didn't have your head so far up your ass.

I went to middle school at a very very black school. I was called white boy, and no one ever had to ask which white boy, because I was the only one around usually.

One day around this time of year, the very nice liberal white girl fresh out of college decided to talk about the holidays.

"Does anyone celebrate Hanukah?"

*silence*

"What about Kwanza?"

one kid goes "What's Kwanza?"

she explains "It's a holiday celebrated by some African Americans. Does no one here celebrate it?"

*silence*

"Well what do all of you celebrate"

*unanimous response* "Christmas."

[Ken Shultz]

You're right, there are a lot of social conservatives in the northeast.

Some of those old school Irish in Boston are about as socially conservative as anybody needs to be. They're Democrats for other reasons--including tradition.

But what does that have to do with anything? I didn't say that there weren't any socially conservative people in the northeast.

Again, is this really about attacking the GOP again? Because I don't give a shit about the establishment GOP! They betrayed Reagan's vision, they betrayed Milton Friedman, Barry Goldwater, Caspar Weinberger, Howard Jarvis, Arthur Laffer, and everything else that was good about the Republicans. The establishment Republicans can all go fuck themselves!

And the social conservatives in the Republican Party who stand in the way of capitalism can all go fuck themselves, too. They're shit stains in America's underpants. There's no good reason to defend them.

The social conservatives only look good in comparison to Progressives, like Obama and Liz Warren, who are actual shit. Yeah, fuck the progressives...

And fuck the establishment GOP, too!

[VG Zaytsev]

When did the dixiecrats all go republican?

You do realize that southern states still had democrat legislative majorities into Bush's 1st term -right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Social conservatism has been typically racist in character since before the Dixiecrats all went Republican.

Ah yes, the mythical Dixiecrat Exodus, more touted than the Biblical Exodus and with less proof.

Why did it take 30 years for TEAM Red to get a majority in Congress if all of these Dixiecrats turned their coats in 1964?

[Ken Shultz]

I don't know what you're talking about.

I was talking about the racist character of social conservatives (regardless of whatever party they're infecting at any particular point in history).

[John]

I was talking about the racist character of social conservatives (regardless of whatever party they're infecting at any particular point in history).

So basically you call anyone you find to be "racist" a "SOCON" regardless of what party they vote for or what any of their views actually are.

That is solid thinking there Ken

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect they don't have an especially warm spot in their hearts for gay people either.

Gay is the New Black! (Said no person with half a brain cell)

[Ken Shultz]

Said no person with half a brain cell?!

Well, what about this guy:

http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.....5,f.u1.jpg

If that isn't what he means, then I'm sure you can tell me what he IS saying, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me refresh your memory, since it doesn't seem to be working to well.

Do I think social conservatives (especially of the older generation) have a problem with black people? Yeah, I do. I suspect they don't have an especially warm spot in their hearts for gay people either.

Post some reports of cops panic-firing on gays, or choking gays to death in broad daylight. Until then, keep your weaselly attempts at trying to hook gays to blacks to yourself.

[Ken Shultz]

The comparison wasn't between black people and gays.

The comparison was between how social conservatives feel about gays and how social conservatives feel about blacks.

Some social conservatives are so weird on blacks? They can't even discuss the topic of racism without sputtering.

[Anonymous Coward]

The comparison wasn't between black people and gays.

The comparison was between how social conservatives feel about gays and how social conservatives feel about blacks.

Project much, Kenneth?

[Ken Shultz]

You know your link is busted, right?

[John]

Ken,

Those SOCONs are so racist they are the only ones besides Libertarians talking about sentencing reform and the deplorable conditions of our prisons.

You can say smart things sometimes Ken. I don't understand how you can then turn around and say stupid shit like this.

[Ken Shultz]

What social conservatives are you talking about, John?

Are you talking about someone on a website somewhere?

A politician?

Everyday people like us?

What social conservative is talking about this stuff?

I think I've been very clear about when I'm talking about political leaders, the Republican constituents who vote in the primaries, and just socially conservative commenters out there in the internet wild.

Who are you talking about that's saying this stuff?

[John]

You know how to use google ken. Look up prison ministry sometime and you find hundreds of evangelical churches all over America doing real good in prisons.

Go look and get your head out of your ass Ken. The world is not obligated to live up to your bigotry and sometimes it doesn't. Sorry but life is like that sometimes.

[John]

http://www.nae.net/resources/n.....-to-prison

Many denominations have recently stated their support of reform efforts through resolutions on criminal justice. The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA) adopted a resolution that declares its commitment to comprehensive criminal justice ministry and advocacy. The ELCA identifies families of victims and prisoners, affected communities, and those who work in the system as deserving the church's attention and service?groups that are largely forgotten in the criminal justice process. According to the document, the ELCA will support reforms and legislation that emphasize victims' rights and needs, use restorative justice practices, implement community-based alternatives to incarceration, reduce sentences for certain offenses, institute specialized courts, and focus on reentry.

[John]

The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) also passed a resolution this June declaring support for legislative policies that would reduce high incarceration rates without jeopardizing public safety. The SBC acknowledged the high incarceration rate in the United States, particularly in Southern states. In order to pay for prisons, governments at all levels are devoting a significant part of their budget to corrections. The resolution also called on SBC members to offer the love of Jesus to those who are incarcerated and to assist in reintegrating people who reenter society after serving their sentence.

http://www.justicefellowship.o.....ice-reform

I am sorry Ken but you are just a pig ignorant bigot and you need to shut the fuck up on this topic before you embarass yourself more than you already have.

[John]

And SOCONS are so racist, the most popular politician among SOCONS today is Ben Carson.

http://baltimoretimes-online.c.....on/?page=4

They must support him so much just to cover how racist they are. But you can see the real truth I am sure Ken

[Marshall Gill]

Yep, Ken, my guess is that you don't know any Socons. My family is in Oklahoma and Texas and the socons among them are definitely not racist and indeed will support Ben Carson in the primaries.

[VG Zaytsev]

What social conservative is talking about this stuff?

Mike Huckabee for one
Is he SoCon enough for you?

[Ken Shultz]

Rand Paul should find a way to score some points, here. I know he's looking to shore up his support on the social conservative side of the equation, but I bet his most important support in the primaries will comes from younger voters who either haven't participated in the primaries before or who are completely new to the process. And he's got his father's old support--who came out big to support Ron Paul in places like New Hampshire.

Rand Paul should show up and protest. Rand Paul should go back to Howard University again. The Democrats should be terrified of Rand Paul on this issue. And there are a lot of Republicans who will vote in the primaries for the guy they think scares the Democrats the most.

[Brian D]

What the fuck are you talking about?

~Jon Stewart

[Mike M.]

Leibowitz really is one pathetic little prick.

[RBS]

I get what you're saying, but along with Ron's supporters comes Ron's baggage. Accurate or not, a lot of younger (late 20s early to mid 30s) people associate him with what they perceive to be racism.

To be clear, I do not think Ron Paul is a racist.

[Zeb]

This is true. But Ron Paul also got a surprising number of people in that age range, people who you wouldn't expect to support a conservative libertarian from Texas, to support him. I think/hope that it will be good for Rand.

[John]

What Zeb said. Paul's supporters seemed to be as a group pretty young.

[RBS]

I agree, this just happened to be on my mind because an acquaintance was talking about liberals voting for Rand then quickly distanced himself from those liberals because NEWZLETTERRRZZ!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Soon the coverage of Rand will be nonstop Civil Rights Act and Southern Avenger.

I hope the media proves me wrong.

[John]

That is exactly what it will be. And Paul's mission is to continue to reach out to blacks and get his message out to whites so that those stories only affect the true believers who won't vote for him anyway.

If you are a Republican running for national office, figure your kids and your entire life is up for attack and debate and you are going to be called a racist on a daily basis by the national media. If you can't deal with that and overcome it, you should be running for national office as a Republican.

[Rebel Scum]

Southern Avenger

I have viewed much of SA's work (when he was under that title on youtube) and I honestly have not ever heard him claim to believe anything that is inherently racist. Though I understand full well how disingenuous progs will use him against Paul because "racism". Shouting ad-homs is really the only thing they've got.

[John]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelli.....r-case.htm

I posted this on the farm thread not realizing it was dead. It is an interview with a NYPD cop about this. The guy makes some interesting points. Basically, he says that Ray Kelly and broken windows policing is why the community hates the NYPD. The other thing that comes through is the problem is too many fucking laws. The guy makes the valid point that people hate cops because cops take away their freedom. The more laws you have, the more people cops will do that to and the more people are going to hate the cops.

[sarcasmic]

Broken windows policing would more accurately be described as harassment. No matter what you are doing, at any point some nosy asshole with a badge and a gun will demand that you explain yourself. If they don't like your explanation, or if you fail to show sufficient subservience, then they take you to jail. Twisting this into a racial issue completely misses the point.

[sarcasmic]

I should have said take you to jail or kill you.

[John]

The cop in that article points out the obvious; if you have the cops spend their days harassing everyone in the community, the community is going to hate you and not help you when you need their help to solve actual crimes.

And he also points out that sending your police out to harass people at every possible opportunity creates a police culture that promotes abusing and distrusting the population.

[sarcasmic]

If the cop likes you and you show sufficient respect, then he may give you a break or let you off with a warning.

If you're not doing anything wrong, but fail to be subservient, then they'll arrest you and make something up to put on the report.

That's rule of man, not rule of law.

[sarcasmic]

the community is going to hate you and not help you when you need their help to solve actual crimes.

When did cops start giving a shit about actual crimes? Their job is to demand obedience, and steal the property of people who commit victimless crimes against the state. They don't give a fuck about actual crimes.

[John]

Since forever. Amazingly enough there are a lot of people in prison for actual crimes. Not everyone there is innocent or there because they sold the wrong substance. Some of them are real criminals who deserve to be there and were caught and convicted for doing very bad things.

[sarcasmic]

I just ask because whenever I've been the victim of a crime, all the cops did was run me for warrants and ask for consent for a search. And nothing else happened.

[Paul.]

I had my front door kicked in twice in brazen daylight burglaries.

Cops said there wasn't much they could do.

[Anonymous Coward]

or if you fail to show sufficient subservience, then they take you to jailPANIC FIRE!.

FIFY.

[VG Zaytsev]

The link is miss an 'l' at the end of it.

[Steve G]

Sooo, how's that Ebola apocalypse coming along? I was expecting to be infected by now so I wouldn't have to buy xmas presents

[PapayaSF]

It's dropped out of the news, but it's still spreading in Sierra Leone, though it seems to be spreading less quickly elsewhere. Something like 1,200 people in the US are under observation.

[Virginian]

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....williamson

A modest proposal.

[John]

IF this law had been in effect in the 60s, Paul Erlich would be the subject of one of the largest bankruptcies in history.

[PapayaSF]

Heh.

[BigT]

There are a couple of changes we could make that would significantly reduce the abuse of the system by the pigs.

1. Body cams that are on the full 8-hour shift, with live recording to the cloud
2. Special prosecutors from outside the district are REQUIRED in cases where a pig is a suspect. This breaks the pig-prosecutor alliance.
3. Grand juries required in all pig suspect cases and NO suspect is permitted to testify to the grand jury (ie only under cross-examination)

[sarcasmic]

End immunity.

[BigT]

Good point. How does that work when a LEO is investigating a crime - going into a house after a suspect - would he still be trespassing, B/E?

[sarcasmic]

That's not what I'm talking about.

[Ken Shultz]

"2. Special prosecutors from outside the district are REQUIRED in cases where a pig is a suspect. This breaks the pig-prosecutor alliance."

That is an excellent idea for reform, but I'm a little iffy on the specifics.

The pig/prosecutor alliance is really about union endorsements. If the outside prosecutor is coming from a district where the police are represented by the same union, then we really haven't broken that alliance.

I think there needs to be like an independent prosecutor that is appointed rather than elected, maybe. His job only lasts as long as he's investigating a cop.

I'm open to other suggestions, but I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of the ultimate source of the problem.

[BigT]

The pig/prosecutor alliance is really about union endorsements.

I believe it's about day-to-day working relationships. Most days the prosecutor needs the cop to testify to get the scumbag off the streets. It is difficult to then turn around and go after that cop without destroying the relationship. That's why an independent prosecutor is needed. You may have a point that the union could f things up as well.

[Ken Shultz]

I'm sure that's part of it.

Still, I'd be interested to see some statistics on how often people who don't have the police endorsement win DA elections in this country.

You get down to that part of the ballot, and who knows one candidate from another other than who's endorsing them?

[BigT]

OT: What is the best app for my iPhone that will steam video to the cloud when the cops are beating my neighbor's head in?

[John]

That is not good enough. You want to be able to upload it on youtube anonomously so the cops can't take their revenge for you taking it.

[Steve G]

Yes, I would like to know this for android. Also, if its a sunny day, where does the video stream go?

[sarcasmic]

http://bit.ly/1vqqAOG

hth

[Steve G]

bbbut which link should he choose, there's so many!!

[BigT]

I saw some of the linked apps before. And I've looked at copblock.com. I was hoping for a recommendation. So many apps seem to have bad reviews or tech issues.

[VG Zaytsev]

Ken has demonstrated in the comment thread that he's every bit the bigot that he imagines those stinky SoConz to be. It's downright Botarded

[John]

SOCONs are the new Jews for some people.

[Ken Shultz]

Social Conservatives suck donkey dicks.

[Marshall Gill]

They love you, Ken.

[John]

And drink the blood of our children no doubt too. Seriously Ken, you don't yourself any good by being this bigoted.

[Ken Shultz]

Comparing the plight of the modern social conservative to the plight of Jews is pretty pathetic, John. I didn't want to call you out on it 'cause I didn't want to embarrass you.

But now you're doubling down on blood libel--against the social conservatives?! I'd laugh, bit it's too sad and ugly to be funny.

You should email Reason staff and ask them to delete that for you. Tell them there should be some kind of mercy rule.

[ronaldbarrkem]

My best friend's mother-in-law makes $85 /hour on the internet . She has been out of work for 5 months but last month her pay was $16453 just working on the internet for a few hours.
Visit this website ????? http://www.jobsfish.com

[Stormy Dragon]

But remember, the Confederate Flag is only a symbol of Southern Pride and should not be considered as advocating in favor of racism:

Ferguson marchers met with gunfire, racial slurs, fried chicken, and a melon