Police Abuse

Police Shooting of Pre-Teen in Cleveland Caught on Surveillance Video That Contradicts Cops Claims


Tamir Rice

Last week police in Cleveland shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice, claiming the boy tried to pull a (fake) gun out of his pants when ordered to put his hands up. The interaction was instigated by a 911 caller who said he saw someone with what was a "probably fake" gun.

Now surveillance video appears to contradict police claims, as it shows the police officer shooting Rice immediately after getting out of a moving patrol car. Watch below, via Cleveland.com:

There could be more than 300 million (real) guns in America, and an infinitesimally small proportion are used to commit crimes. Politically expedient fearmongering over guns, however, can lead to frivolous 911 calls that, in combination with trigger-happy yet largely immune cops, can be fatal.

Matt Yglesias says the cops' assumption Rice's toy gun was real "wasn't unreasonable." For someone that spends a lot of time arguing from authority, he doesn't hold the "experts" to a high standard. You can't be deferential to cops' judgment AND not expect them to make better judgments and then blame anything other than your attitude on the police violence that predictably follows. Boys, and girls, have been playing with toy guns for decades and somehow cops used to be able to handle it without arresting or shooting children. 

NEXT: Denver Cop Leg-Sweeps 7-Month-Pregnant Woman to Ground Bellyfirst While Beating Her Boyfriend's Head into Asphalt. Drug War is Working!

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  1. Saw somebody today blame open-carry on shootings caused by police officers in Ohio.

    And I was also accused of being a racist and a sexist for calling myself a constitutional conservative. This was despite the fact that I never went into any detail about my belief system. So, yeah. Liberals openly embracing libel.

    1. That’s how they operate. Always has been.

    2. Start working at home with Google! It’s by-far the best job I’ve had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this – 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go? to tech tab for work detail

      ?????????? http://www.walletwiki.Com

  2. The interaction was instigated by a 911 caller who said he saw someone with what was a “probably fake” gun.

    Well, fuck that guy.

    1. Remember: eyewitness testimony is unreliable yet the perfect cover when police fuck up.

      1. Go to Cleveland.com to see the entire video. There’s about five minutes showing the thug in training. He was walking around pointing his gun at people. That’s why someone called 911. Cops claim he was warned three times to raise his hands prior to the car entering the video. I’ll wait for audio. This park is gangbang territory, thug waiving a very realistic looking gun at people and police dies like a thug.

        1. Good to see you’re keeping an open mind.

        2. I’d agree with you if he was waving the gun when the cops showed up. (And it’s probably the reason why no one tried to take the gun from him or told him to stop fucking pointing that thing at people.) I did have your point of view until I saw the video. And I’m not disagreeing with you that he probably was a thug in training, and was getting off on scaring people with his pistol. Were the cops in the park when he was pointing his replica at people, I’d have zero problem with their mistaking it for a real .45 and shooting him.

          Problem is, he wasn’t holding the pistol when they showed up. The goal of the police is to arrest lawbreakers, not summarily execute them. Absent some witnesses (non-police) saying that the cops were telling him not to move, it looks like they drove right up to him and blasted him before the passenger door could slam closed. God help us all if that’s the new standard, because anything can count as a furtive movement. As Paul in the comments yesterday wrote about this, I don’t want to get shot because some SJW sees my pistol printing, calls the cops with a lie about me brandishing it, and I get blasted by police I don’t even see.

          Show me evidence that the kid wasn’t complying with their lawful commands and I’ll change my mind. Again. But this video’s awfully damning for reckless behavior on the part of the shooting officer.

          1. +1

            If you think this menace has a pistol rolling up on him in your car seems aggressive. I imagine that they went in with a “let’s do this shit mentality.”

          2. Agreed.

            Even if that gun had been real the shooting, as it actually occurred, does not appear remotely justified. You cannot shoot somebody absent an immediate threat.

            As the kid never pulled the gun from his waistband there was no immediate threat.

            That cop committed murder.

            1. Ok, but I’m watching the video (which is pretty bad) and my impression is that he was holding the “gun” and when they show up in frame it looks like he does something with his waist band not sure if he’s putting a gun in it, pulling a gun out of it or just grabbing his guts because he was just shot… in summary video=crap.

              1. I’m not seeing that.

                Still, even if that is the case, are you arguing that it is acceptable for the cops to shoot someone for merely holding a gun?

                Not to mention the absurd tactic of driving along side, and leaping directly in front of someone you -purportedly- think is armed and dangerous.

                That wasn’t law enforcement, that was an assault.

                1. “That wasn’t law enforcement, that was an assault.” And that’s the kind of rhetoric that burns cities. I’ve seen enough of these videos–way too many, in fact–to have concluded that too many cops have lost the proper and necessary balance between keeping themselves alive and their oaths “to protect and serve.” But it seems to me that arguing, as you do, that these cops intended this result from the outset feeds into the problem.

              2. That’s actually how I see it, too. Based on the article, I watched the video expecting this to be a clear-cut, unjustified police shooting, but I don’t think it is. It looks to me like the kid is actually reaching for something at his waist as he’s walking toward the squad and the cop exits the car. So I think that this is just one more case of a justifiably nervous cop who shoots first and asks questions later.

                1. Somehow I do not think the standard for use of lethal force in that jurisdiction is “nervous so shoot first and ask questions later.”

                  But what do I know, my rhetoric apparently has the power to induce rioting.

        3. Why would the cops tell him to raise his hands 3 times from a distance and then when he fails to obey drive right up to him and immediately shoot?

          1. At a distance he thought the kid was a dog so reacted instinctively by racing up close and shooting him to death?

            ( Did the cop kick him in the head to make sure he was dead or did it just look like it? WTF??? )

          2. Exactly, when dealing with someone you know to be armed, and presume dangerous, driving up, and then leaping out of your car at contact range seems wildly reckless.

        4. This park is gangbang territory, thug waiving a very realistic looking gun at people and police dies like a thug.

          I want to know more about this waiving. Were they notarized? You got links?

          And at least you acknowledge that people and police are different categories. That’s a start.

        5. Listened to the 911 recording. The caller didn’t sound like they were in danger at all and that he/she was reluctant to say what the kid’s race was. Even if he wasn’t a dumb kid (probably was) you don’t have signs in parks that say “gangbang territory, do not wield bb guns”.

        6. I don’t think it as always as simple as choosing to be a “thug”. If you are surrounded by neighborhood thugs you can hide in a closet all day or you can defend yourself from people who are bigger than you and don’t respect anything but violence. Worse yet, you can take on an aggressive posture and find yourself doing to others what your persecutors did to you. Why do you think kids take box cutters to school with them?

        7. No he wasn’t. Only one other person appears on the video and he doesn’t point the gun at him. I count him pointing the gun twice on the whole video, both times not at anyone, or at least not anyone visible on the video. The majority of the video is him sitting on a bench doing nothing. In short, you’re a liar.

  3. Has the police spokeshole given the “the video does not tell the whole story” statement yet, or is that still to come?

    1. I didn’t agree with you, Andrew, before I saw the video. I do now. Absolutely disgusting, criminal behavior by the officer. Manslaughter at a minimum is how I’d vote.

      Nothing will happen, of course.

      1. The video corroborates the cops story. The kid was approaching the cop and reaching for something.

        1. Or pulling his pants up. Or fiddling with his hands because he was 12 years old and a cop car just hurtled up to the gazebo in which he was sitting and two armed men started pointing guns at him and yelling, and that might have made him nervous.

          Making a cop nervous shouldn’t be a capital offense.

          1. Making a cop nervous certainly should not be a capital offense. I am sympathetic to the cops, though, too. They go into the job recognizing that it’s a much more dangerous job than most, that’s certainly true. But at that moment that you’re coming face-to-face with someone you’ve been told has a gun, and he’s coming toward you and he’s reaching for his belt, it’s tough to say to the cop that he ought to–in fact, must–put his own life on the line by waiting to defend himself in case things aren’t what the seem. In point of fact, I think that’s EXACTLY what well-trained, good police are supposed to do, and if this cop jumped gun–literally–then he ought to answer for that. But I’m sympathetic to the mistake in what was a really tough situation. I think most people are, which is why cops are so often acquitted, even when they’re charged in cases like this. Again, I’m not saying that that’s the right result, but it does mean I wouldn’t want to be a cop.

  4. Holy fucking shit. He must of had his gun drawn before he even opened the door.

  5. That is fucking brutal. This is worth rioting over. The Michael Brown case is nothing compared to this. Horrible.

    1. This is what I dont understand. Where is the media on these cases, why is a big deal made out of Michael Brown instead?

      Ferguson should be the case that only those of us crazy enough to follow all these stories know about, not the big national story.

      1. I just checked CNN. This is currently in the “Other headlines” section under the Michael Brown stuff as “Report: Boy shot just after cops came”, which doesn’t even make clear that he was shot BY the cops!!!

        Seriously, how do they pick which stories to build up and which to ignore? There is no discernible logic to it.

        1. CNN fucks up again. I believe it far more likely that the cop came right after shooting the boy

          1. He was flushed, sweating, and out of breath. Clearly he had been in a struggle for his life.

            1. Mistakes were made.

          2. I think CNN is headed the same way as Sears Roebuck and Radio Shack. Only more so with CNN since they live off the charity of people who keep paying for cable channels they don’t watch.

        2. Seriously, how do they pick which stories to build up and which to ignore? There is no discernible logic to it.

          Uhm, there’s a very discernible logic to it.

      2. As John has explained, they pick the thug to celebrate because it’s much more polarizing, which is the goal.

        1. That makes…too much sense.

          1. It really does.

            1. Roughly paraphrasing someone in the one of the tens of Ferguson threads here, “If you were trying to start a riot from this shooting, what would you do differently?”

              If the news is filled with Ferguson this and that, it’s not filled with abysmal economic and foreign policy news. Plus, it gives the Feds an excuse to crack down, and ask for yet more money to do so.

              1. That was me! Probably someone else, too (it’s hardly an original observation).

        2. That is a horrible and probably accurate statement. I hope it isn’t true but in my heart, I kind of know it is.

        3. It’s all part of the cultural marxist agenda of the prog media. They wish to stoke the fires of a race war. They are pretty much a bunch of Mansons, albeit less coherent.

        4. Really finding myself believing this more and more as time goes on.

        5. well I thought this one would have blacks and whites both agreeing the police overreacted, but the youtube comments are disgusting.

          1. Are they ever not?

      3. Sarcasmic had the best explanation – these “protesters” are, or know, gangbangers – “he was just turning his life around!” and can easily imagine themselves/their loved ones confronting the cops and getting shot.

        A 12 yo playing with a BB gun hasn’t yet reached gangbanger status and hence isn’t entitled to so much empathy.

        1. I find it hard to believe that the people protesting wouldn’t empathize with a 12 year old boy.

    2. It’s so frustrating to me that Michael Brown — strong-arm robber who may actually have legitimately been shot by the cop in self-defense — is supposed to be the national face of police misconduct currently, while far more transparently horrible cases like this will never get the same kind of attention, won’t spark riots or give rise to national “conversations,” etc.

      It makes it too easy for a lot of people to shrug, say he was a thug who deserved it, and go on pretending the system is fine.

      1. I think that is the point.

    3. I was just thinking the same thing. However, the Fergeson riots are not about the Brown killing. That was just the last straw.

      I have no idea what the situation in Cleveland is like, but that guy needs to be stretching a rope.

    4. The video corroborates the cops story. The kid was told to put down the gun, instead he approaches the cop and reaches for something.

      1. You keep trying to troll with this comment, but you should work on coming up with something more believable and less crazy.

    5. Seems like Brown got what anyone behaving the same could expect; riot.

      This kid in the park is a different story; no riot.

      It’s reaching the point where nothing makes a lick of sense anymore.

  6. Another one! I just watched the last video and now this.Think I’ll have a beer,nut punch wednesday

    1. I need something harder than that. Another story I may need vodka in an IV bag.

  7. Cops come in at close distance and get out of the car firing? Nothing about that looked tactically sound or having any regard for public safety. Warrior mentality has no place on US streets. This engagement was likely to put them in a dangerous situation if the kid actually did have a gun and end up killing an innocent kid if it was fake. Just shocking that cops get away with being incompetent, trigger happy murderers.

    1. That doesn’t even strike me as warrior mentality. I would expect actual warriors to make sure they had some cover. Video game mentality, maybe. But even then, experienced video game players know better than to run ‘n gun.

      1. Yup, classic video game mentality.

    2. If we had dash cam footage from the Sonoma County shooting of Andy Lopez, where an airsoft AK was mistaken for a real one, I’d bet it’d look not much different than this.

      The cop didn’t alert the kid, tell him to drop the weapon: how could he have in the time the video shows? The car pulls up, the kid stops, and the kid drops in the same frame the passenger door opens. Since when was it O.K. for the cops to do drive-bys?

      That the cop lied his ass off won’t matter and nothing will happen to him. Absolutely disgusting.

      1. The cops are saying they told him 3 times to drop it before (or as?) they were pulling up. Maybe. But speaking fast, that would probably take 3-5 seconds, minimum. Assuming they were driving 15 mph and and yelling that as they were driving, they would have been 30 yards away when they started. It’s hard to tell from the layout of the park, but it isn’t even clear that the kid had a line of sight down the road. It seems plausible to me that he got up from the bench to investigate when he heard them yelling. He may not have even known he was the one they were yelling at. He was probably still trying to process what was going on when they shot him.

        1. The cops are saying they told him 3 times to drop it before (or as?) they were pulling up.

          Do they have anyone else who’ll vouch for that? Because it’s beginning to look as bullshit as the rest of their story.

          For fuck’s sake, I was one of the guys pissed at the “it’s just a BB gun” narrative, saying that I thought the pistol was a real 1911 and that the cop shouldn’t be faulted for shooting if the kid was trying to draw when the cops told him hands up. That people don’t come with floating icons over their head, telling you their user name/age/and team, and that a 12 year old with a handgun can kill your ass just as dead as an adult with one.

          My mistake for assuming the police were actually trying to arrest the kid, and not just shoot him. The passenger is firing in the same second as the door’s opening. Where is the attempt to see if the suspect is trying to comply with your orders? There isn’t any.

          1. Where is the attempt to see if the suspect is trying to comply with your orders? There isn’t any.

            Exactly. They barely gave him a chance. Let’s assume he got up from that bench when they first yelled something at him over a loudspeaker. That is 9 seconds before they pulled up. That is the upper limit. They didn’t even have a way of knowing if he heard them! For all they knew, he may have thought they were yelling at someone else.

  8. By the way, why are surveillance videos more spotty than cell-phone videos? You’d think surveillance equipment would be bigger than a cell phone and better able to capture details without the stop-motion-style stuff.

    1. My guess is that, since they need to run continuously, they reduce the quality and frame rate to mitigate the data volume.

    2. To save on storage, presumably. Cell phone cameras are designed with the intent of taking videos maybe a couple minutes long, whereas security cameras are on 24/7 usually. If they took video at the quality and framerate of a cellphone video, you’d be chewing through hundreds of gigabytes or more of hard drive space every day, depending on how many cameras are operating.

      1. Yeah, but storage is so cheap these days that it wouldn’t be terribly difficult or expensive to set up a system which automatically records over anything more than xx days old. Really, how often does someone need to go back and look for surveillance footage for something that didn’t *just* happen? Incident happens, go get the footage immediately. Fucking simple. And then perhaps the footage would actually be useful instead of this shitty, grainy, stop motion crap. It works for dash cams.

    3. Surveillance cameras are still usually TV-resolution analog CCDs.

      Completely different sensor technology, for a different purpose.

    4. Probably dust and spider webs on the lens, plus lower quality to start with.

    5. Yea – that video was shit. I can’t tell what’s going on it.

  9. The cop lied? I’m shocked! (at this point I’d be shocked if a cop told the truth)

  10. Seriously, what the actual fuck. They pull up to within 5 feet of the kid and shoot before they barely have time to get two feet on the ground?!?! They don’t even have the sense to pull up FACING the kid and take cover behind their doors, and offer him a chance to “stand down” (working under the assumption he was acting dangerously to begin with, which he wasn’t). Even if they had been observing him prior to pulling up (and probably scaring the kid shitless), all he was doing was mulling around!! This is fucked up beyond belief. They just executed a 12 year old.

    1. It’s 2014.

      Much like the Antiwar Left, any collective outrage over this tragedy will be nonexistent.

    2. What we need are some *peace* officers. Wait, they’re *already* supposed to be peace officers. They cry peace, peace, and there is no peace.

      1. What we need is more gun control. Only cops should have guns!

    3. pull up FACING the kid and take cover behind their doors, and offer him a chance to “stand down”

      That’s just letting the kid know he has the upper hand. You can’t let a 12 year-old kid get the upper hand otherwise people will lose respect for the police.

    4. They don’t even have the sense to pull up FACING the kid and take cover behind their doors

      1) I am not defending the cops
      2) I am at work, and the video is blocked, so I haven’t watched it

      But car doors can’t stop a bullet. That’s Hollywood fantasy.

      1. Fair point, and all the more reason to try to deescalate the situation from a distance.

      2. Actually most car doors have a steel plate in them that will stop most common pistol rounds. At least they used to, not sure if they are still made of the same materials. And it depends on the model of car.

        Most pistol bullets are soft and can’t penetrate a car door unless they are lucky enough to pass through one of the holes in the interior plate. Even FMJ rounds are softish and will stop on that plate.

        I was able to concoct a round that easily penetrated car doors by making hard cast bullets (dropped out of the mold into cold water) for the 9mm and .357 and jacking them up pretty hot. Actually they penetrated both doors, passing entirely through the car. My cop buddy, shooting standard 9mm, .357, and 45acp rounds was not able to shoot through a single door. The model car was a ’70 chevette.

        1. Go to Boxotruth. Most car doors are much better concealment than cover. Especially if the assailant is armed with a rifle.

        2. “The model car was a ’70 chevette.”

          No it wasn’t.

        3. Chevettes didn’t start production till theblate seventies.

      3. Wait. So, police departments have all that military equipment, but they can’t put a plate in a car door?

    5. The purported LEOs I’ve read, who’ve seen the video, excuse it by saying the kid pulled up his sweater and went for the pistol. Then pooh-pooh naysayers for “Monday-morning QB’ing” etc…

      I can’t tell from the video, but are the lights on the cop car even on? The car comes with a loudhailer, neither cop thought that “Police! Get your hands up!” might be appropriate? Again, like the “were the riots intended by TPTB” argument, if the cops were actually trying to murder the kid, how would they have done things differently than they did here? I don’t see much difference.

  11. I am wondering why the cops pulled up so close to the kid if they thought he had a gun

    1. In the future they’ll be trained to just run suspects over with the cruiser. Safer for the cops.

    2. Because he’s 12. The cops are way better marksmen.

  12. Good luck slinking out of this one Cleveland. The emperor is looking to restock the ScapeGoat herd. And y’all just put yourselves at the top of the list.

    I hope that fucking pussy ass bitch pig mother fucker goes away for a while. That was straight up state sponsored murder.

  13. Reason really needs a “Cop Excuse Bingo Card” for these stories.

    1. I read that as “Cop Executes Bingo Card”. And sadly it still seems apropos.

      1. lol. So far to fill in the columns I’ve got: Video doesn’t tell the whole story, “mistakes” were made, goofballs, procedures were followed and reached for waistband. I’m sure the rest of the commentariat can add plenty to get the card ready.

        1. Furtive officer safety menacing movement.

        2. Bonus points for excuses in passive voice: “mistakes were made,” “shots were fired,” “weapons discharged,” etc.

        3. Did not comply with orders, looked like a real gun, acted menacingly, reasonably feared for their safety.

        4. Totality of circumstances, split-second decision,

        5. Thin blue line; officers went home safely.

    2. “Step right up and spin the wheel of Fuck You That’s Why.”

  14. I’m trying to stay calm here, wait for the facts, etc. But we have video. Can someone, anyone, come up with any mitigating circumstances not shown in the video that might warrant giving the cops the benefit of the doubt? Honest, I’m asking. I can’t. I can’t see how this is not at least manslaughter.

    And if a civilian did what these cops did, we’d have cries of how dangerous an armed populace is, how awful open carry laws are, etc.

    1. Manslaughter? They decided they were going to kill the kid before they got there. That’s murder one.

    2. To answer your question: No.

    3. Dunphy will be along with one of his rambling verbal diarrhea blasts to explain it.

      1. Light The Signal!

        1. It’s a badge shaped beacon, actually. And I’m hoping there is some attractive 70’s era British chick who lit it that deserves a right proper spanking.

          1. It’s a badge bacon shaped beacon, actually.


            1. Damn! I’ve been using the donut shaped beacon!

              1. Should have used a dog shaped beacon, one would be along soon to shoot it.

          2. Welcome to the Castle Anthrax!

  15. I hope the guy who called the cops sees this and then kills himself.

    1. Seconded.

      1. Puts his head in an electric oven?

        1. EZBake. Then arrested for possession of an incandescent weapon of mass climate destruction.

    2. Are you kidding? He’ll cream himself knowing a thug-in-training was offed.

    3. I hope he just tells people to stop calling the cops.

  16. Poor officer Wilson – he’s going to be conflated with all the abusive lying cops in these other cases. A literal example of a designated scapegoat.

    1. Wilson is an incompetent fuck up but he wasn’t this bad.

      1. If Wilson were the worst example of a bad cop, I’d be so relieved. But alas…

  17. I’ll say this: the video, albeit grainy, does make it appear as though the kid reaches toward his waist.

    Having said that, none of that excuses the blatantly stupid way these police approached the situation in response to a call of a possible gun.

    1. I did notice that. And the cops will say they needed to react and make a life or death decision in a split second.

      But what about this 12 year old kid? Think he is used to police cruisers flying up to within 5 feet of him out of nowhere? Fuck me, this kid may have just gotten killed because he got startled, and probably terrified. How the hell would be he thinking straight?

      1. I’ll say this much: in the aftermath of the Ferguson thing, I’d be a bit more apprehensive as a white cop patrolling in a black neighborhood. Because of the diligent work of the proggie media outlets, and even Reason for that matter, there is a perception of white police officers as joining the force for no reason other than as cover to murder black children. That’s gonna put you in some compromising situations in these neighborhoods.

        And I think black culture in this country needs some serious introspection and analysis into how they interact with police. I have no love for police, nor even a modicum of respect. But, when confronted with situations where I am forced to interact with them, I know how to play the role of obedient serf in order to extricate myself from that interaction as quickly and painlessly as possible. Always assume the cop will shoot you (and that applies whether white or black as about 3x the number of people killed by police are white, even while whites are only responsible for half of all murders) with the slightest justification and act in the most unthreatening manner possible.

        1. Interesting choice of words, I’m pretty sure black people are tired of playing the role of obedient serf. And certainly the hero worship (by whites) of Rosa Parks and MLK refusing to be obedient serfs justifies it even more.

          The problem is the police are not interested in protecting your rights if they can get you to forfeit them easily. Asserting your rights is considered a “threatening manner” by far too many police.

          1. Hardly.

            Being informed of your rights and being matter of fact in attesting to them (i.e. not consenting to a vehicle search etc.) is not ipso facto threatening. In fact, I’ve had a number of interactions with police where I’ve stood my ground in terms of the legality or what I’m doing all while being cordial, polite, and non-threatening. It’s not some binary choice between licking their boot and smiling as they cuff you and charging at them like an UDFA in the fourth preseason game trying to make a special teams play on a kickoff in order to make the roster.

            What I’m referring to is being coldly compliant and raising one’s hands in the air to signify a lack of threat posed. Cops are very stupidly trained to approach each interaction as though the person they’re interacting with is armed. All one need do is demonstrate clearly and convincingly that you do not have the ability to grab a firearm, and that is most easily accomplished by raising one’s hands into the air.

            Follow those basic instructions upon the police first approaching you instead of being a douche. Maintain your calm. If the officer then seeks instruct you to do anything compromising WRT your rights, explain how that contravenes law.

        2. Yes lets blame Reason and the media for the reaction garnered by years of abusive policing. That’s not remotely asinine.

          1. No abusive policing around here as far as I know. Have you experienced any personally or are you just going by sensationalized news reports?

    2. I was going to say that. He was also walking up to the car while he did it. This looks far more ambiguous than many here seem to think.

      1. That doesn’t excuse the tactical stupidity in the way the police approached the situation.

        If you believe someone armed, you don’t drive up within five feet of them and get out of the car immediately without any cover. You drive up in such a way as to provide yourself cover while keeping a gun fixed on them and giving them instructions to drop their weapon and comply.

        1. You are right on target. This was very, very BAD policing. And that’s the best that can be said of the way these guys handled the situation.

        2. This. This this this.


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          this. This this.


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      2. I don’t think it is that ambiguous. You’ve got a 12 year old who knows he doesn’t have a gun, and the supposedly yelling at him *as* they bear down on him with a police cruiser. How quickly do you think a 12 year old would process information in a situation like that? Especially when he has no reason to believe his is acting threateningly? He may not have even known he was the one the cops were yelling at.

        1. If I were a 12-year-old black kid in a bad neighborhood, with a realistic-looking toy gun in my waistband, and a police car came barreling up, with the police shouting anything at all, whether it was to me or not, my first reaction would be to put my hands up.

          Lots of accidents and tragedies consist not just of one mistake, but a series of them. I’m not blaming the victim here, but often victims do things that contribute to the outcome. It’s not “fair,” but it’s true. It’s easy to say “cops shouldn’t shoot kids with toys,” and it’s inarguable. It’s also true that stealing cigars and jaywalking shouldn’t get you shot. But you can greatly reduce your chances of getting shot by following a few common sense rules.

          1. my first reaction would be to put my hands up.

            If nothing else, I’m hopeful that the “Hands up, Don’t Shoot!” protest chant will at least teach a few of the kids in these rough neighborhoods the appropriate posture when interacting with police.

            1. Most people are going to put their phones in their pockets before putting their hands up because the police might mistake the phone in their hand for a gun.

              But going to their waist is a furtive movement the police might mistake for pulling out a gun.

          2. I’m not blaming the victim here, but

            You are absolutely blaming the victim.

            You are unrealistically expecting every person, including a child, to think like the police think. At the same time they are sent through public brainwashing school to believe the police are the paragons of virtue and intelligence.

            The word for that is “doublethink”.

            It takes loads of experience and bullshit detection to unlearn the brainwashing. You may have succeeded, but you have to know you are in the 2% of exceptions.

            1. You don’t think there is also ghetto brainwashing that all cops are dangerous racists just waiting for an excuse to shoot young black men?

              I’m making a subtle but important distinction: people can contribute to accidents without being to blame for them. Telling girls not to get blind drunk and pass out in frat houses is not the same thing as blaming them for getting raped.

              1. There is no doubt the police PR is un-taught in the ghetto. Wouldn’t surprise me some 12-year old wannabe gets duped into thinking getting shot at by cops is a rite of passage.

                Certainly the video doesn’t look like an accident and therefore only plays into the idea that the cops are just looking for an excuse to shoot. The people in these neighborhoods have already known that for decades. It’s only news to the top 4 quintiles.

                And I can even assure you that some residents in these neighborhoods are clueless compared to the police about how the drug trade works in the neighborhood. But I am never going to excuse police recklessness.

          3. Of course it’s unrealistic to expect cops to have training for young children. How does the boot taste?

      3. I can’t tell from the video if he reached for his waist or not, but the kid is 12. That means he has shit for brains. If he was reaching he was probably trying to show them it was a toy. Bad move when you are dealing with trigger happy pussies, or in this case, murderous ones.

        1. It’s not entirely unheard of for 12 year olds to be packing heat in some gang-infested shitholes.

          1. Rather more likely the young ones are going to, I’ve read, given the penalties will be less for them than someone over 18.

          2. Not arguing the police having reasonable doubt/concern the gun could be real.

            I would argue that rolling up like your doing a hard hit raid is a) stupid b) proves you had zero intent to deescalate the situation.

            You would have to be a pretty big asshole to think jumping out of a moving car to tackle a suspected gunkid is a good idea.

    3. Well, the cops are also claiming that they told him to drop the weapon, which was at his waist under his shirt at the time according to their story. How is he supposed to drop the weapon without reaching towards his waist?

    4. So what if he had a real gun? He wasn’t shooting people with it, so why assassinate him?

      1. Bingo. There’s a deeper current here that relates to anti-gun sentiment. Certain people are threatened by the idea that other people might possess means of self-defense, because they ultimately believe that to be the sole provenance of the authorities. Think about it like this: how would this situation–prior to the police rolling up–be different in, say, Wyoming?

  18. It never occurred to these cops to hang back and ask him to put it down over their PA system? I think our police forces are hiring based upon lowest IQ and highest ability to follow orders without thinking.

    1. No they knew exactly what they were doing. One yelled “put your hands up” three times very quickly. While the other cop slowly yelled “show is your gun”. The kid only heard the second command. It’s the same thing they did to that concealed carry guy at the Vegas Costco.

      1. They didn’t have time to say “hello” before they pulled the trigger.

      2. Do police, under such circumstances, ever say “Show us your gun”? Don’t they first say “Freeze!” or “Hands up!”?

        1. They must have been yelling it through their rolled-up windows. They’ll blame the kid for not being able to read lips.

        2. They shout conflicting commands to guarantee that the person will fail to comply, then they have an excuse to open fire. It wouldn’t surprise me if they are explicitly trained to shout conflicting commands just for that purpose.

          1. ^This

        3. The cops in this case are claiming that they told him “three times” to “drop the weapon.” Which to me actually hurts their argument, if true, based on the video. It makes it seem like the kid was trying to do what they told him.

    2. Do we know they didn’t?

      It’d be off camera.

      (The article says “Last week police in Cleveland shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice, claiming the boy tried to pull a (fake) gun out of his pants when ordered to put his hands up.[…]

      Now surveillance video appears to contradict police claims, as it shows the police officer shooting Rice immediately after getting out of a moving patrol car. ”

      I saw motion from the kid that could be interepreted, reasonably, as reaching for his waistband.

      And there’s no way to tell if there was PA or yelling activity from off-screen.

      Looking at the car’s motion on tape shows they were not going especially fast – which means they could have used the PA and been in communication.

      Or they could be lying.

      I just wish Reason would do better than the equivalent of Vox.

      Sadly, Reason doesn’t, most of the time, anymore.

      And I do wish REason would note that the toy gun was, as the pictures show, a very realistic AirSoft with the orange tip removed.

      Something, in other words, absolutely trivially mistakable for a real gun at any distance.

      I guess that doesn’t matter, because cop.)

      1. Yes, having no soundtrack is major issue here. Again, an argument for cameras with sound recording on police and police cars.

        1. Is it police procedure to shout commands to a suspect via PA and, when they don’t obey, drive your vehicle closer to them? Seems unlikely to me.

        2. You could have just told us you’re retarded, a demonstration wasn’t necessary.

            1. You’ve become the resident cop-fellator Papaya.

              It doesn’t really surprise me, you do have quite a bit of love for papa government when it suits your ends.

              You used to be the not quite as stupid environmentalist version of Tulpa, but you have been getting more Tulpatarded over the last couple months.

              BTW, all of your arguments in this thread are profoundly idiotic.

              1. I only seem like a “cop-fellator” to people so deep in their ideology that they can’t see multiple sides of an issue. To fanatics, things are always simple and black and white. Reality is almost always more mixed and complex.

                1. And I’m “retarded” and a “cop-fellator” for advocating cameras on cops and cop cars?

      2. Oh come on, you were this close to giving me a reason to drink.

      3. I don’t care how realistic the gun may have been. If it was tucked into his pants, there’s no way to see if it looks realistic or not and has no bearing on the case. The officers were allegedly not informed that it might have been a toy. As far as they knew, it was a real weapon.

        More disturbing to me:

        1. Since when is making a move toward your waistband a reason to use deadly force? If you have the gun in your hand and point it in my direction, then I can reasonably assume you intend to shoot and defend myself. But “reaching for your waistband” is ridiculous as a use of deadly force argument.

        2. I haven’t seen any accounts that indicate the police said they used their PA system to convey the warnings. And if they did, it doesn’t look like from the video that the kid was startled by what would have been a very loud noise, so I kind of doubt that story.

        3. As several other posters have pointed out, what sort of police procedure is it that says when you’ve commanded a potential threat (who doesn’t appear to be actively threatening anyone at the time of your encounter and who you cannot be 100% sure is even the person you’re seeking) to drop a weapon that you can’t see, you then roll right up next to him?

        1. 1. Officer safety, etc.

          2. Exactly. Look at the video. The cop narrative is essentially that they gave this kid all kinds of notice off camera and made him aware of the gravity of the situation. In the video, the car pulls up right in front of the gazebo and the passenger opens fire before he’s even out of the car as the kid walks calmly up to the car. It’s almost as if the cops might have said something the kid didn’t hear, so he walked closer, and was shot for his trouble.

          3. It’s not, or shouldn’t be. If you think the suspect is armed you approach from a distance. If you aren’t sure, you use the car as soft cover and issue commands with weapons drawn. You don’t pull up within three yards of an empty-handed kid and plug him.

      4. I just wish Reason would do better than the equivalent of Vox.

        Actually, as the post notes, Matt Ygelsias of Vox is taking your side, saying that the cops were reasonable in assuming it was a gun. You’re the one who’s the equivalent of Vox.

        I guess that doesn’t matter, because cop.

        Yes, that’s your opinion. It doesn’t matter what he did, because cop, he’s innocent. It’s not reasonable for anyone to shoot in those circumstances. Cops aren’t special, you fucking statist.

        You’re the big government guy here, which is no surprise that you’re on Vox’s side.

    3. Training might have something to do with it. If the instructors act like R. Lee Ermey’s marine drill instructor in Full Metal Jacket, then that communicates to the recruits that they are training to be shock troops who have the moral imperative to shoot first instead of being peace officers. Blurring the lines between the military and the police is bad for both services.

      1. I suppose it’s a question of emphasis. Policemen need to be proficient with weapons but their training should begin and end with the law and everyday law enforcement…not drill drill drill.

      2. My god man,
        Don’t you realize there’s a drug war going on.

        Of course we may have to pop a couple kids, but aren’t you willing to sacrifice someone’s kids for the greater good. These good men are just doing their jobs, and shouldn’t have to answer a bunch of dumb questions.

        If people didn’t ask questions there wouldn’t be these errors in the video compared with officers statement, .

        So let’s all get behind these fine officers,
        And hink of the children.

  19. I’m guessing I don’t want to watch this video.

    1. No. You don’t.

  20. ChalupaBatman Today 3:05pm

    Yeah it sucks a kid got killed, but seriously people. Don’t fucking walk around with guns, even fake ones.

    1. people walk around with guns all the time in many places,what’s your point/BTH we played with toy guns and some looked real,chased each other all over the block. No one died

    2. ChalupaBatman Today 3:11pm

      I thought thats literally what I just did.

      I don’t care about your country’s bullshit logic, or your century old constitution. No civilian should be allowed to have a gun. Period.

      1. It’s so heartwarming that Ezra Klein’s scholarship has established the age of the constitution for a generation of half-wits.

    3. You mean “Don’t fucking walk around with guns, even fakes ones while black!”

    4. When I was a kid many decades ago I was told not to walk around in public with a realistic looking toy gun. In fact, back then a realistic toy gun was damn hard to find and just for that reason. Everyone recognized it as a bad idea.

      Still, we live in a country where carrying a gun is recognized as a right. Exercising that right is not justification for execution.

      1. Hmm, many decades ago realistic toy guns were damn easy to find. I know, because I remember when they starting talking about trying to ban them, and it was decades ago.

        Realistic toy guns have always been around, as have BB guns and actual guns in the hands of minors. And gun violence is down incredibly over the years– except killing by cops are way enough.

        Acting like there are more kids with realistic looking toy guns or BB guns than there used to be is not realistic. It is ignorant of the facts.

        It would be more reasonable to blame the cop hysteria on anti-gun hysteria by gun controllers, and the fact that most people incorrectly think that violence has gone up.

      2. Suthenboy,

        Ditto, albeit in the 80s for me. I was also taught never to point even toy guns at anyone unless I intended to shoot, and to treat even fake guns as loaded, real weapons. Even so, I can point to any number of movies or tv shows from the 50s, 60s, and 70s where there are neighborhood kids around this kid’s age running around the street playing cops and robbers or cowboys and indians, sometimes in front of police, and not being treated like a rampaging elephant. For the majority of our country’s history, that was normal.

    5. Aww Hugh, you missed his second comment, even better.

      “I thought thats literally what I just did.

      I don’t care about your country’s bullshit logic, or your century old constitution. No civilian should be allowed to have a gun. Period.”

      Jesus, what a vile fuckwit.

      1. Nevermind, I missed your second one.

    6. Every single state allows at least concealed carry.

    7. You’re an idiot. People get shot reaching for their cell phones when they don’t have a gun. We have trigger happy cops who execute people when they don’t get immediate compliance. The cops don’t de-escalate situations properly and people pay with their lives. The cops “pay” with paid time off work.

    8. Wyoming, Michigan, Vermont, and the rest of the open-carry states would like a word.

  21. ” A 12-year-old boy carrying a pellet gun that looked like a real firearm was ordered three times to show his hands before he was fatally shot by an officer, Cleveland police said Wednesday.”

    This was a straight mafia style execution.

    1. ” A 12-year-old boy carrying a pellet gun that looked like a real firearm was ordered three times to show his hands before he was fatally shot by an officer, Cleveland police said Wednesday.”

      Considering how quickly the kid was gunned down, those orders must have been shouted by the Micro Machine Man.

  22. WTF is with douches like Yglesias and Klein who just feel they have the authority to weigh in on anything they feel like. Wilson’s story is not believable to Klein. Yglesias assumes the cop’s excuse was reasonable. If they have any expertise, it’s certainly not in this. They just look like idiots over and over.

  23. You know what I hate the most about all this Ferguson business? That the race-baiters have essentially hijacked the narrative.

    Now that so many of them have made this about race, the true faults of the structure of the justice system will essentially be glossed over.

  24. “Boys, and girls, have been playing with toy guns for decades and somehow cops used to be able to handle it without arresting or shooting children. ”

    Uh, no. Kids do that with other kids, normally with their parents somewhat around, normally on their property.

    Not in a public park by himself, completely unsupervised and scaring people.

    You’re a moron, so is the kid, and so are the parents.

    The cops aren’t at fault, not even in the slightest.

    1. When I was a youngster, the neighborhood kids would play guns/war over a several-square-block area, hiding in bushes, behind garages, etc. For hours. No parents around. Stalking each other. Belly crawling. Running.

      Everyone was cool with it.

      1. Same here. I don’t think there’s anyone in their 40’s that could really say any different. The things we did 30 years ago that were whimsical and innocent would get us all expelled, jailed or killed today.

        1. our toy guns didn’t even have orange tips. but I don’t think PDs hired the weirdest motherfucker you went to high school with back then.

      2. We even dug shallow foxholes and threw firecrackers at each other. Now that would be reported on CNN as,”Child attempts to wound others with improvised explosive device and was killed by police.” Police officer receives commendation.

        1. To be fair, throwing firecrackers is a bad idea.

          1. Yeah, bottle rockets and a pvc pipe work much better.

            1. Or a bottle, preferably a beer bottle you just drank.

          2. Yeah, so is throwing hardened clumps of dirt but we did it anyway , same with firecrackers, we were fucking kids and sometimes kids do stupid shit. If you think that will change you are delusional.

            Unless the risk averse in the population make sure all kids are bubble wrapped, put in rubber lined rooms and not allowed to play dodge ball kids will get dinged up and learn shit like how NOT to get dinged up. Worked for millions that I grew up with.

    2. We used to run around parks, etc. with no parents present, playing WWII and many of us had uniforms, bandoliers and other shit our fathers had brought home from the army. One kid even had a Luger
      (welded inoperable). One time a cop came over, looked at it, and said “that’s pretty cool.”

      Where is the national libertarian group in every state and city that could get out there and lead protests when these kinds of incidents happen?

      Oh, and “Get Off My Lawn.”

      1. We had all that stuff, too (sans Luger). I had a couple of defused grenades we’d lob at each other. I get the impression that National Guard jets would be scrambled if a dummy grenade presented itself during war play today.

        1. I had squirt gun Lugers and yeah we ran all over the neigborhood in packs during our “war games”. The parents were inside, if a kid crossed a line, usually breaking a window or something similar, the aggrieved party called the other parents, not a fucking cop.

          Times are changing and not for the better.That poor kid never had a chance.No way they warned him three times, they pulled up so fast he probably heard nothing and fucking shot a 12 year old kid.

          If there is a case I’d riot over it’s this one, but the SJW’s are hassling people in shopping centers to get some air time over Brown. Fucking vile people the SJW’s. A clear cut case of cops over the line and caught red handed and no outrage. There is no way to take these dipshits seriously after this.

    3. Even if you think this kid looked like some sort of threat, the cops are absolutely at fault for jumping headfirst into what they may have thought was a dangerous situation. They escalated it and then shot the kid dead. That isn’t his fault. It’s theirs.

      And last I checked, being a moron, scaring people, playing a public park by yourself at the age of 12. None of those are crimes, let alone capital offenses.

  25. OT: Comrade HUSSEIN Sotero abuses his authority to pardon condemned jailbird

  26. I honestly do not understand why making a fatal error, even if not criminal, doesn’t disqualify someone from public safety work.

    1. You obviously aren’t familiar with the FYTW clause included in city charters.

  27. I’d like to point out that even if the cop’s story is perfectly accurate and even if the gun had been real and even if the kid was drawing to shoot, it’s still murder. People, especially 12 year old kids, are under no obligation to follow police orders when they’ve done nothing wrong. The kid had every right to kill them. They initiated the violence.

    1. I believe at the tender young age of 12, open carry does not apply. I could be wrong.

      1. Depends on the state and its licensing requirements. Federally, you can’t buy a handgun from an FFL until you’re 21, but if your parents bought one and gave it to you, that’s legal. There are several no permit open carry states that place no age restriction on you then carrying it.

    2. I believe at the tender young age of 12, open carry does not apply. I could be wrong.

      Setting aside the unconstitutionality of age restrictions, after five minutes of searching I couldn’t find anything in Ohio law restricting open carry by children. If it’s that hard to find, then it doesn’t count as wrong.

    3. Go to Cleveland.com to see the entire video. Reason only posted the money shot. There’s about five minutes of the thug in traing pointing his gun at folks

      1. And that means absolutely nothing as to whether or not the police, who were not present for him “pointing his gun at folks” should have shot him. They are supposed to assess the situation before going in. I have seen no report that they saw him brandishing a weapon or even knew for sure that he had one. All they had to go on was the report of the 911 dispatcher. I’m pretty sure no police officer can claim that every time they show up on a call it’s exactly as reported by the dispatcher.

        Frankly, your choice of words here is disgusting. You know he was a “thug in training” how exactly? Because he had a toy gun? Was I a cowboy in training back in the day when I went around with my plastic silver gun and badge? Please explain what justifies this smear of the deceased.

        1. The bigots love this sort of thing. Their tiny dicks get all stiff at the thought of offing a darkie.

          1. I see you’ve also been to Breitbart.

      2. Really, there’s five minutes of the rookie cop pointing his gun at the kid? It looks to me like it happens immediately.

        “Thug in training” is a pretty rough term for a rookie cop, but I can’t argue with it here.

      3. There is no such thing in that video. You’re a liar.

      4. I saw the one on the Washington Post website. It’s the full video. There’s nothing that kid did to justify a cop driveby shooting, particularly as he was sitting calmly by himself at a bench when the cops arrived.

        Oh, and don’t think it’s not totally obvious what you mean when you say “thug in training.”

    4. There’s about five minutes of the thug in traing pointing his gun at folks

      Then I have little sympathy for him, though I proably should since he was only twelve. But I can still demonize the cops. They didn’t watch the video. They didn’t know whether he was really threatening anyone, and there’s little reason to believe they even had credible evidence to that effect. They arrived on scene knowing nothing, and they should have known that they knew nothing. They were the aggressors.

      1. The 911 callers reported it. They knew the situation about the gun. This a dangerous area with a lot of gangbangers. The cops who did the shooting were not told the gun may or may not be fake fake.

        1. The cops who did the shooting were not told the gun may or may not be fake fake.

          Citation fucking needed, anonymous Tulpa sockpuppet #52

        2. I don’t recall a “dangerous area” clause in the “shall not be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law” part of the Bill of Rights.

        3. Try caller, singular. Did you hear the recording? Obviously not, because the caller isn’t even a bit worried. And again, none of that is even relevant because he wasn’t doing anything remotely menacing when the police arrived. Also, being in a high-crime area is not itself a capital offense.

          But why be coy? Just go ahead and say that the safe assumption is that if you see a black male of any age in or near public housing he’s armed, dangerous, and looking for an excuse to kill white people.

      2. The cops who did the shooting were not told the gun may or may not be fake fake.

        Nor were they told that he may or may not have had a bomb strapped to his chest. Why’d they get so close?

  28. Matt Yglesias says the cops’ assumption Rice’s toy gun was real “wasn’t unreasonable.”

    Oh those conservatarian copsuckers!

  29. So many things to say, but one thing is how the one cop is hiding behind the rear of the car long after the kid was blown away and on the ground. I’m sure that’s “procedure”, but it’s not the type of pussy stuff you see from TV cop show heroes that most of America thinks is like real life.

  30. the fact that the cop hasn’t resigned after killing a kid with a toy gun speaks to his character. he does not give a shit.

  31. There isn’t a riot in Cleveland because it’s fucking cold outside. Can’t have our rioters being uncomfortable. Seriously though, this is obviously worthy of hell raising, whereas the Ferguson case looks legit to me.

    1. There was a peaceful demonstration downtown, and the freeway nearby was closed by protestors for a while yesterday. This incident makes me distrust the cops that much more.

  32. Another example of the oppression of minorities and the powerless by the TEA Party.

    1. And another example of an idiot with no reasoning or comprehension skills who mindlessly trolls message boards posting statements that have nothing to do with the topic under discussion.

      1. Calm down C3P0, it’s just a driveby troll.

  33. I am seriously disappointed with Reason. Why not post the entire video from Cleveland.com. You will see this thug in training pointing his gun at folks (that’s why someone called 911). While I am always suspicious of bully cops, I will reserve judgement here until audio is available. CPD claim the thug was warned three times before the car enters the scene.

    1. This is the entire video from Cleveland.com. If you are going to make the claim that there’s a longer version that puts this in another context, kindly link to it.

      1. Here is the long version. The kid just walks up and down the sidewalk for about 15 minutes before the shorter version.

        1. Waiving his gun around

          1. Looks like we got one o’ them gun-grabbers here.

          2. Well if on-site execution of a kid for waving around a gun isn’t appropriate, what is?

        2. I think you meant to link this.

      2. I did. Cleveland.com

    2. The kid being an asshole doesn’t excuse the police being stupid.

      1. The police acted appropriately. They told the kid to get down and drop the gun. The kid approached the officer and lifted his shirt and reached for something, so the cop shot him.

        1. Awesome critical thinking skills. Almost as good as the tactical brilliance the police displayed in this video.

        2. The police also acted appropriately in not giving him first aid, I’m sure you agree, right?

          Just keep on taking Vox’s side, you big government aficionado, Nivardus.

        3. The kid approached the officer

          That’s a lie.

    3. Because just saying that the cops were called by a third party covers that.

    4. The only “thug in training” was the rookie cop. And even so, I don’t think it’s reasonable for people to shoot cops on sight or even after warning them three times, the way that you apparently do.

      Watching the entire video does not make it look better for the cops to me. Maybe to some gun controllers, I suppose.

    5. Why bother typing out, “thug in training” when it’s so blatantly obvious that you mean “nigger”? Save yourself a few keystrokes, you bigoted, holstersniffing shitheel.

  34. It’s tough to tell whether Rice made a motion towards his waist.

    I didn’t hear any anguished screams of pain, gun fire, or police commands, so I’m guessing audio is missing.

    If the officer claimed that he actually got out of the car and THEN ordered the kid to drop the gun, he would be wrong. Vox says the officer shot Rice within two seconds of leaving his car, which seems to be what’s happening in the video. But I’m not sure.

    There are supposedly witnesses to this crime, and some people saw Rice was pulling his gun in and out of his pants and brandishing it about.

    My gut feeling says the cops (who were not told the gun might be fake) acted rashly, but I’ll reserve judgment until the facts are in.

    1. but I’ll reserve judgment until the facts are in.

      Clearly, you don’t belong on Reason then.

      1. If reason had posted the entire video, instead of just the money shot, you might reserve judgement to

        1. I did watch the video via cleveland.com. It really doesn’t change my view of the situation. I’m wise enough to know that the kid who had the police called on him for having a gun in a park, possibly fake, was likely a little shit up to no good and worthy of fuckall respect of sympathy from me. I didn’t need to see him doing it to confirm in my mind that’s what he was probably doing.

          But the “money shot” as you call it shows what I believe to be absurdly stupid way to approach the situation on the part of police. What Reason posted was the entirety of the police interaction with the deceased. And it is that interaction which was folly.

          1. Exactly. I don’t give a damn what the kid may or may not have been doing prior to the police arriving on the scene. When they arrived, he was by himself under a gazebo, not threatening anyone. That was the situation as the police found it.

            If he had been brandishing what appeared to be a weapon, with people nearby, then absolutely they would have been justified in treating him as dangerous. As it was, there was no indication of an imminent threat, so approaching as they did (leaving aside whether or not they warned him) was inappropriate.

            One only needs to look at swatting to realize that 911 calls are not always accurate. The officers did not have video surveillance of the area, so the contents of the video prior to their arrival have nothing to do with their conduct. The only thing on which they have bearing is whether or not 911 should have been called in the first place.

            1. I guess it all depends on what information the 911 dispatcher relayed to the police.

              The tipster reported (at the top of my head) seeing a kid walking around the park while taking a gun in and out of his pants and brandishing it. He also said the gun was “probably fake”, but that info apparently never reached the police.

              The 911 dispatchers have to GRILL tipsters for more info if they’re somewhere safe. “I see some guy walking around with a gun and he might be pointing it at people” will make the police assume the worst. The kids who shot the Australian baseball player were less than 16 years old.

        2. I watched the whole video. There is no excuse for what the cops did. You have to be a pretty crazy gun controller, among other necessary qualities, to approve of what they did.

          The entire context looks even worse to me than the short clip.

          1. It does look worse, because it shows the subject interacting with someone (blurred) passing by on the sidewalk who makes no attempt to run away, and someone is sitting on the picnic bench under the gazebo watching him and not reacting. The people closest on the scene obviously did not consider him a threat.

            1. Exactly. How threatening could the kid have been when the caller is making the call from a bench within earshot?

    2. The kid was brandishing a gun (toy probably, but still). But the police reaction is so over-the-top and stupid it cannot be called good police work by any sensible human being.

      I don’t even care if the cops were on a PA politely asking the kid to drop the gun for several minutes without compliance. The whole fucking point is the police need to spend as much time as possible diffusing the situation so that neither the kid nor the cops fires a shot. I don’t even care if a few more squads have to show up to block escape routes.

      The police reaction can only be considered putting themselves in even more danger unnecessarily.

  35. After CPD executed two unarmed people with137 shots last year, I generally don’t trust them. I’ll wait for audio before I form an opinion on this one. This park is a haven for gangbangers. This trainee is clearly no angel. The full video shows him waiving and pointing his gun around before the cops enter the video.

    1. “The full video shows him waiving and pointing his TOY gun around before the cops enter the video.”

    2. This park is a haven for gangbangers.

      So while they rush up to this one kid, they are sitting ducks for an ambush. Idiots. They put themselves in unnecessary danger.

      I’ll also add, since you appear to be a newcomer, that the park would NOT be a haven for gangbangers without the war On Drugs/victimless crimes the police love so much as make-work.

  36. That doesn’t prove anything. There’s no audio so there’s no way of telling if the officer ordered the subject to put his hands up while the officer was still inside the car. The subject also looks like he’s reaching inside his waistband as soon as the car pulls up. What I do agree with is that the political fear-mongering over guns is partially to blame for this incident. The police would likely never have received a “man with a gun,” call if the general attitude was different. So way to go, anti-gun/gun control people. You got someone shot. I hope you feel safer.

    1. So way to go, anti-gun/gun control people. You got someone shot. I hope you feel safer.

      Are you kidding? They’re going to stand on his corpse and clamor for more gun control.

      1. That’s what they always do.

  37. Pants

  38. While researching the case, came across an article on Cleveland.com discussing how Tamir Rice’s father has a history of domestic violence as well as another describing the neighborhood as a haven for drug and gang activity. Now we’re smearing the shooting victim by proxy. I guess since he has no criminal record, now his father (who apparently did not live with the family) and his neighborhood’s past suddenly becomes relevant, though I’m not sure why.

    1. Oh, his dad was a thug?

      That totally justifies everything the cops did.

  39. I just saw the News Report on CNN that does NOT show that the cop just drove up and SHOT. They only showed the kid pointing the gun at people.

    The most important piece is that the Chief of Police claims that the cops showed up, told the kid to put his hands up, and the kid pulled out his gun.

    But, when I see the REASON.COM video on this blog, the cops just showed up and shot the kid.

    CNN really SUCKS!!!! There’s no way that the cops had enough time to even address the kid, they just shot him as they showed up.

    1. The police purposely SLOW down the Video at the point of the shooting. When watched at real time, it happened much much quicker.

      Look, in today’s world, it’s pretty stupid for a black boy to be walking around with a toy gun. But the Cops just rolled up and shot this kid.

    2. Yahoo News just made this a top story (via a Reuters link).

    3. The cop told the kid to drop the gun and get down, the kid instead approaches the cop and reaches for something. The video corroborates the cops story.


        Did you see the “REAL TIME” video above, and not “SLOW MOTION” video supplied by the police?

        As you can see from the video here on REASON.COM is the cops roll up and the kid fall. Check out seconds 20 thru 22 on the video above and tell me that the cops had the time to say what they claim they said.

      2. Stop lying.

      3. It’s completely Tulptarded in here.

        Nothing but Tulpoloids.

  40. Did you see the “REAL TIME” video above, and not “SLOW MOTION” video supplied by the police?

    As you can see from the video here on REASON.COM is the cops roll up and the kid fall. Check out seconds 20 thru 22 on the video above and tell me that the cops had the time to say what they claim they said.

  41. What was Quick Draw McGraw’s partner doing while all this happened? What was his reaction?

    1. He was busy putting the cruiser in park, and (if they follow the law) taking off his seatbelt. That’s about how long the shooting took.

  42. Hope they nail that cop to a wall. Don’t see how he could explain away what he did. Low frame rate, but it doesn’t look like the child had any time to react in a remotely “hostile” manner. They could have run him over.

  43. His partner looks like he was ready to kill the corpse in the event that it shot back. Shoot first, think later.

  44. Well, if it’s efficiency you’re looking for this is it. Judge, jury % executioner all in one package.

  45. “Stop or I’ll” BOOM! “shoot”.

  46. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..27552.html

    Rooky cop. Probably not much more mature than the kid he shot.

  47. The problem here is twofold: (1) visible guns in most big cities are considered verboten, and the cops react accordingly, and (2) the cops drive right up on a potentially deadly situation (in their view) rather than backing off to see just what’s going on.

    Let me propose a new 2nd Amendment add-on: “A healthy male childhood being necessary to the spiritual health of a free state, the right of the children to keep and bear toy guns shall not be infringed.” Then, we can start putting these trigger happy assholes in prison where they belong, or at least taking away their badges and pay for the rest of their lives.

  48. What appears to have happened clearly from the cops’ perspective:

    Cop 1: I like Vanilla!

    Cop 2: So do I.

    Cop 1: So there’s that kid with the gun. I really believe it’s a real gun!

    Cop 2: I too believe it is a real gun.

    Cop 1: I believe there’s a real chance I could get shot.

    Cop 2: I too believe there’s a real chance I could get shot.

    *cops look at each other*

    Cop 1: I’ll drive up with 3 feet of him!

    Cop 2: And I’ll exit the vehicle TOWARDS him, draw and fire before he kills me.

    *cops look at each other*

    Cop 1: Plan?

    Cop 2: Plan!

  49. Looks like the cops just drove up, the cop on the passenger side jumped out and shot the kid immediately and then ran to hide behind the back of the car. Don’t see how it would have been possible to shout any warning between the time the car stopped and when the cop fired.

    Why did they pull the cop car into the park, instead of pulling up on the street?

  50. It’s nice to see Reason present an ACTUAL apparent case of police brutality and possibly murder when they have been spouting such absurd crap in regards to Ferguson that even many hit and runners are calling bullshit and defending the officer

    When H&R’s do THAT, you can be pretty clear the shark has been jumped

    Of course the ignorati will always respond to actual (ok, apparent at this point) police brutality and predict I will explain it away despite the fact that several times this year I have commented on incidents of obvious police brutality or misconduct etc. and condemn the officer’s. I am the first person to say this is bullshit when it is and from what I can see of this case this is bullshit

    As a person with actual experience of deadly force incidents at Cetera who is actually been presented with deadly force etc. etc. Unlike most of the reason navelgazing ivory tower do nothings I can look at a case like this and go unless there something I’m missing this cop is seriously fucked up and probably should be indicted


    1. Fuck off slaver. You are the one who justified shooting a man in his own house for answering the door at 2am while holding a gun.

      And yes I’m beating a dead thread but Dunphy should never go unanswered.

    2. Umm…the Mike Brown case and this one have absolutely zero in common and I have not seen anyone on here saying differently. I think you are mistaking Reason for HuffPo or Gawker. Nice try.

      Regardless of what anyone has said about Mike Brown, the undeniable facts of THIS case are as such:

      12yo CHILD with TOY gun executed by police=murder

      Now, do you have anything to contribute/dispute about THIS case or would you prefer to offer another red herring or otherwise attempt to shift the narrative again?

      1. No, Dunphy is a former cop and a STOOGE to the BLUE WALL.

        He will only contribute in cases where it cannot be proven that the police did something wrong. In which he will say, the Police deserve the benefit of the doubt.

        In this case, the police chief claims that the cop yield three times drop your gun. On top of that, in the news report, they show the shooting in slow motion. When viewed in REAL TIME, it is clear that the cop had no time to say the word “Boo” three times before shooting the kid, let along “Drop your weapon” three times.

    3. “ignorati, jumped the shark, ivory tower, navelgazing[…]”

      Definitely a troll.

      Too intelligible for any cop, let alone Dunphy. You know, the real one, assuming there ever was a “real” Dunphy. I honestly can’t say at this point.

  51. First off…your headline of “contradicts” is not supported at all in your article.
    Call an officer “trigger happy” when they’ve never shot their gun before is being quite vitriolic and lacking in any “reason”.

    Decades ago we didn’t have 12 year olds carrying real weapons.
    And as kids we most surely never pulled a gun out of our waste band when the police rolled up.

    Pretend for just a second that the kid had a real gun and was going to shoot the officers. How long are they supposed to wait to shoot back?
    Do you believe they should be shot at first before returning fire under all circumstances?
    Imagine you are walking down the street and some 12 year old reaches into his waste band while walking at you and pulls out what looks like a gun. I’m sure your first thought would be “oh that must be a toy gun”
    This kids was walking towards the car and presents an obvious show of intent to use lethal force and the officer reacted appropriately.
    The kid MAY have been pulling the gun out to show the officers it was a toy…but why would you expect the officers to know that?
    The kid may not have know to simply raise his hands which is what we should be teaching the kids to do whenever the police roll up.
    If he had done that this tragedy could have been averted.
    I don’t know what policy you could come up with on the police side to prevent this without putting every officers life at risk.

    1. Pretend for just a second that the kid had a real gun and was going to shoot the officers. How long are they supposed to wait to shoot back?

      Hopefully long enough for them to ascertain that the kid is actually going to shoot, because otherwise your standard basically excuses any cop shooting anyone they see who might be carrying a concealed weapon, i.e. everyone.

      Also, if you’re concerned someone has a gun and you don’t want to be shot, one typically approaches slowly, weapons drawn. You don’t pull up within three yards and shoot before you’ve even gotten the door open.

      But, by all means, please continue to justify the murder of a 12-year-old.

    2. Why the fuck do I have to pretend anything???

      Why didnt the cops initially treat this like any rational human being would? That a 12 yo in a playground was most likely playing with a toy? What you propose defies logic and common sense…something that is apparently lost on you. To suggest that everyone be treated with suspicion and criminal intent be the norm rather than the exception is antithetical to everything a free citizen believes in. You would have done well under Stalin, Mao, Jong Un/Il eh comrade!?!

  52. If you sign up voluntarily to be a fucking cop, you should be prepared TO WAIT AS LONG AS IT FUCKING TAKES BEFORE SHOOTING A FUCKING CHILD YOU STUPID FUCK!

    Part of wearing that badge means that you are and should be willing to sacrifice YOUR life for a CHILD, no matter what color or whether you are in a ‘gangbang’ zone or not. Otherwise, DO NOT BECOME A FUCKING COP! Go get a desk job you fucking pussy POS!

    What kind of subhuman fuck can in any case advocate or attempt to justify the MURDER of a 12 YO CHILD with a TOY gun or otherwise???? Fucking psychopath!

  53. Matt Yglesias says the cops’ assumption Rice’s toy gun was real “wasn’t unreasonable.” For someone that spends a lot of time arguing from authority, he doesn’t hold the “experts” to a high standard.

    Look, Ed, do you go into work bitching to everyone who will listen about how evil the Koch brothers are and about how Welch never wears deodorant?

    Sadbeard likes his paychecks same as the rest of us.

  54. Haha..and now comes the story of the cops that arrested a man in Fruitvale, CO for pointing a banana, YES A FUCKING BANANA a them because they thought it was a gun. Are you fucking kidding me world? Is this really the best cops can do?

    The only thing this singularly spectacularly moronic cop did correctly was seek cover in his car and accelerate away instead of immediately executing the banana wielding thug.

    I cannot make this shit up…

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  57. I can’t see anything from that video.

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