The Independents

Tonight on The Independents: Apocalypse How? Featuring Former CIA Director James Woolsey, John Tierney, Rocket City Redneck Travis Taylor, Jeffrey Miron, and More!


Dream-catchers. |||

Does the news these days make you feel like Winnie the Pooh, stumbling toward the Apocalypse? You are not alone, brother. Which is why tonight's theme episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three and five hours later) dives right into the Fear, interrogates it, embraces it, and fights back with some hard-won rationality.

"Apocalypse How?" stares into the abyss with the following tour guides:

* R. James Woolsey, Jr., the 16th director of the Central Intelligence Agency, former under-secretary of the Navy, 1980s nukes negotiator, and all-purpose alarm-sounder. Woolsey will assess (yet again!) the threat of ballistic nukes from rogue states, and scare the crap out of you about the looming EMP threat (sample mongering: "within 12 months of a nationwide blackout, up to 90% of the U.S. population could possibly perish from starvation, disease and societal breakdown").

* K.T. McFarland, former Reagan-administration deputy defense secretary, who will talk about the nexus between failed states and nuclear weapons (in other words, Pakistan).

* Dr. Manny Alvarez, resident Fox News doctor guy, who will describe how Ebola can and cannot wipe out populations, and whatever nasty viruses we should be skeered of.

* Harvard economist and occasional Reason contributor Jeffrey A. Miron, who will assess the possibilities of a U.S. debt crisis, and the pros and cons of hoarding various metals.

* Ridiculously over-accomplished scientist and backyard tinkerer Travis Taylor, star of Rocket City Rednecks, who will describe the human race's vulnerability to asteroids, super-volcanoes, and alien invasions.

* Beloved New York Times science writer John Tierney, who will coo soothingly and tell us to relax already about looming civilizational collapse.

You'll learn, you'll laugh, you'll get a thousand dollars worth of ones and fives ready, just in case….

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NEXT: Watch Peter Suderman on MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry Show Tomorrow Morning

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  1. EBOLI!

    It’s pronounced EBOLI.

    1. Hey Rufus, when the end comes I’ll fight you for the title of Last Canadian.

      1. Looks like an interesting book.

    2. I am now seeing references to “Obola.”

  2. “Does the news these days make you feel like Winnie the Pooh, stumbling toward the Apocalypse?”

    You mean the a-POOH-calypse?

    1. Are you saying that in Piglet-in?

      1. Tigger, please.

        1. That’s “Tigga”, you racist.

          1. Check Eeyore privilege! You’ll Roo the day you said that.

            1. *narrows gaze at everyone in this thread*

              1. “Bother”, said Pooh, as he chambered another round…

  3. This show is STILL on?

    There really is no God!!!

    *shoots self*

    1. It is not yet the train wreck Red Eye has become.

      1. …become?

        1. With Bill gone it is just missing some casualness.

      2. I still love RedEye. Mostly for Sherrod Small when he’s on. And Bonnie McFarlane.

      3. it was hit and miss. The Andy Levy halftime and post show wrap ups were always funny though and saved the terrible episodes.

        1. Note: I haven’t watched since probably 2011

  4. Ebola is no threat to America. The one I’m more interested in is EVD-68.

    1. Ah yes, a virus that’s very rare in the US that suddenly popped up all over the country shortly after Obama dispersed all over the country thousands of illegals (from countries where the virus is much more common), many already known to be infected with drug-resistant TB, lice, scabies, and chicken pox.

      What a coincidence!

  5. Honestly, this probably isn’t exactly world ending, but I’m going with solar storms a la the Carrington Event. Because I get the feeling that a widespread long term power blackout would result in a lot of people, especially government officials, going nuts.

    1. wasn’t that movie called “Night of the Comet”?

  6. the nexus between failed states and nuclear weapons (in other words, Pakistan)

    *North Korea clears its throat and looks askance at Welch*


      1. Shouldn’t that be *CHOSIN* people?

  7. Dr. Manny Alvarez, resident Fox News doctor guy, who will describe how Ebola can and cannot wipe out populations, and whatever nasty viruses we should be skeered of.

    Saw him on Stossel last night arguing for the Drug War. Hey, Manny, I got your Ebola right here!

  8. Signs The World is Ending Right Now Before Our Very Eyes

    (*my personal fave was the link to the article titled, “9 Ways Effective Communication Makes You Successful, As Told By“)

  9. You’ll learn


    you’ll laugh


    you’ll get a thousand dollars worth of ones and fives ready, just in case…

    I’m listening…

  10. ? I see …. derp moon risin’!

    So I got called into HR for a conference today and got the straighten up and fly right speech. It was not the first time I’ve heard in my life. I was told perception is reality and the perception is that I am not assertive and proactive enough. My response to “perception is reality” was to note the existence of optical illusions.

    1. Cont’d

      They mentioned 2 minor projects as examples of my foot-dragging. I mentioned I increased production rates by double digits in my department and finished a large project that another engineer started and had been in limbo for months. They conceded these were “minor positives”.

      I’ve heard similar comments from bosses in previous jobs- bad attitude, lack of enthusiasm, foot-dragging. And when I bring up actual results, the response is “yes but….bad attitude, lack of enthusiasm, foot-dragging, perception is reality”. I know I make a good faith effort to contribute, yet I’ve managed to piss off every single boss I’ve ever had. I guess they want me to pretend I actually enjoy my job rather than treat it as a painful duty.
      I read once that the only way to succeed in a corporation is to conform, flatter, and do favors. I agree, but it appears I cannot do so.

      I’m not really keen on engineering or manufacturing. I do it because it’s the highest-paying job I’m qualified to do. Perhaps I should go be a hermit. I have often felt that I would be happier chopping firewood for a living- at least I would be left alone and could see the results of my efforts and the end of each day.

      Here endeth my tale of woe.

      1. Go into consulting.

        At worst, you will realize how shitty *that* is, and be glad to have your boring job again. Or maybe you’ll enjoy flying all over the country to do Other People’s Jobs for them. Who knows.

        1. Ah, consulting: if you can’t fix the problem, making money by prolonging it.

          1. To be fair, there is good stuff, and bad stuff.

            Usually what happens is that companies have certain “mandated goals” to achieve in a certain time frame… and they are often on top of everyone’s existing jobs.

            The Consultants come in to “think creatively” about how said project can get done without anyone in the company taking the fall for it. By throwing pile of money at you, and you then subcontracting other portions out, they alleviate themselves of said project and have you to blame if it sucks, and themselves to congratulate if you kick ass.

            Either way, the margins can be *enormous* if you handle things right. And a ‘win’ usually means a long, profitable relationship. (call it a couple years until your contact gets promoted/fired and you need to find a new client)

            1. Hmmm, sounds tempting. My hasty research reveals that as a consultant, I must give customers that Warm, Fuzzy Feeling. Sorry, it appears I can only give results measured in dollars.

              1. No – the warm fuzzy is “them looking good” in front of their boss.

                People who aren’t good at bullshit ‘organizational politics’ tend to be seen as useful tools in consulting. i.e. no one cares about your ‘personality’. Go away, get the job done, let the client take all the credit.

                1. “Go away, get the job done, let the client take all the credit.”

                  This I could do.

                  1. The added benefit of consulting = it requires engagement

                    Its not always in an good way: the pace is like warfare – long periods of boredom broken by intense periods of utter chaos / disaster-management. You find yourself doing a lot of work in hotel rooms at 3AM.

                    But! the (theoretical) payback is that every new job is a new set of objectives, personalities, opportunities… you have to learn on your feet. For people who go nuts with the same old shit over and over and over again, its rewarding in that sense.

                    Most people do it for 3-5 years, then go to work for the client they get along with the best. No one does it forever.

                    Not for people who don’t deal well with stress, or can’t stand that every now and then the client will scream at you. its partly why they pay you.

      2. I guess they want me to pretend I actually enjoy my job rather than treat it as a painful duty.

        In my first and only interview (for a real job after college), I told my boss that my view of work is simple: It is something that I intend to do in order to make a living & be able to afford to do other things. Also, I merely want to get experience in any aspect of the industry that I can.

        I got the job, and have it to this day.

        1. I have been on at least a dozen job interviews, not even counting phone interviews and follow-up interviews with the same company. I’m pretty good at getting job interviews. Maybe I could make a business out of that.

  11. File under: “Progressives Throughout History

    “Rebecca Ann Latimer Felton (June 10, 1835 ? January 24, 1930) was an American writer, lecturer, reformer, and politician who became the first woman to serve in the United States Senate.[1]

    She was the most prominent woman in Georgia in the Progressive Era, and was honored by appointment to the Senate.

    She was sworn in November 21, 1922, and served just 24 hours. At 87 years, nine months, and 22 days old, she was the oldest freshman senator to enter the Senate. To date, she is also the only woman to have served as a Senator from Georgia. … She was a prominent society woman; an advocate of prison reform, women’s suffrage and educational modernization; and one of the few prominent women who spoke in favor of lynching.”

    “Felton considered “young blacks” who sought equal treatment “half-civilized gorillas,” and ascribed to them a “brutal lust” for white women.[7] While seeking suffrage for women, she decried voting rights for blacks, arguing that it led directly to the rape of white women.[8]

    Felton also advocated more lynchings of black men, saying that such was “elysian” compared to the rape of white women.[10]””

    Surprisingly, I’d never heard of her before.

    1. I get the feeling Rachel Maddow will not be doing a profile of this courageous woman any time soon.

    2. a prominent society woman

      Wtf is this?

      1. Its old-timey talk for “Elite”

    3. Surprisingly, I’d never heard of her before.

      They don’t teach Georgia history up there in Yankee-Land.

  12. Marine Killed in Osprey Accident in Gulf:

    Not Mentioned Anywhere in NYT, of Course. Nor did White House Press Sec Take Note. Too busy explaining how our *real* Boots on the Ground are going to Kick Ebola’s Ass. ‘Murica

    1. There was a scandal about Osprey maintenance records being fudged:…..ontroversy

      The V-22 squadron’s former commander at Marine Corps Air Station New River, Lieutenant Colonel Odin Lieberman, was relieved of duty in 2001 after allegations that he instructed his unit that they needed to falsify maintenance records to make the aircraft appear more reliable.[25][52] Three officers were later implicated in the falsification scandal.[50]

      1. Odin Lieberman? Is he a Jewish viking?

        Can’t say I’m surprised a guy named after a one-eyed Norse god ended up in the military.

      2. That was a long time ago. They seem to be doing pretty well these days.

  13. I posted this during lunch:

    I got a response from the office of my congress critter about my protest against the USDA’s silly, intrusive demands for personal information. Long story short, I unwittingly moved into an apartment controlled by the USDA and so every year, I have to send a 10 page form of all my personal and financial information.

    The guy at the other end said I must supply this information because it is stipulated in my lease. I said “But these regulations are ridiculous. I thought your party was supposed to be against this kind of thing.” His response was basically rules is rules, fuck you that’s why. He actually said this is the way it’s always been (which is NOT true) and if I don’t like it, I should leave.

    Thanks a lot, Team Purple!

    1. WTF is “an apartment controlled by the USDA”? They are a landlord who rents out apartments to non-USDA people?

      1. It is owned by a private company, but it is regulated under the USDA 3560 Rural Development program.

        1. Jeebus. You poor guy. The bureaucrats have giant meddling programs to “help people” that I had never even heard of.

  14. Interesting coincidence:

    Oct 3rd 1995, OJ was Acquitted of Murdering his wife.

    Oct 3rd 2008, OJ was Found Guilty of Robbing People at Gunpoint.

    Oh, OJ! Will you ever learn?

  15. That reminds me, I haven’t started my emergency generator in a while.

  16. That scene tells me that that movie still holds up.

  17. Huh. Larry. Us.

    Remember that implicit racism test? Well, somehow redid it testing implicit political bias. Turns out that implicit political bias is even stronger than racial bias.…..zation.pdf


    1. Dodgers are on.

  19. If you’re just going to blow it up, it can be very, very simple

    Unless you suffer from premature detonation.

  20. Woosley failed to do his homework for this segment by watching NBC’s Revolution.

  21. Hmm, isn’t the Ebola River a French Name? So shouldn’t it be “?bola”?

  22. They’re giving the terrorists and rogue states ideas!

  23. “There is a bear in the woods…”

  24. Any company with Rob Schneider as a spokesman deserves Rob Schneider as a spokesman.

  25. Kmele Foster: Now 100% gonorrhea free!

  26. Harvard economist gets his ass kicked.

    “I don’t want to comment on Fannie [Mae] and Freddie [Mac],” Eric Maskin, Adams University Professor at Harvard University, said during a panel of eggheads at George Mason University commemorating the 40th anniversary of Friedrich A. Hayek’s Nobel Prize in economics. “I’m not a housing expert. But one thing we learned from the housing disaster is that housing is littered with externalities. . . . The only way externalities will be taken into account is if a regulator does so.”

    “How did you arrive at the conclusion that the housing subprime boom was evidence of a market failure as someone who professedly doesn’t claim to be an expert in housing markets or to even have an opinion about the role Fannie and Freddie played in that failure?” Cato Institute senior fellow George Selgin, an economics professor at the University of Georgia, shot back. “That’s something of a non sequitur.”

    But it’s riddled with externalities! I have no evidence for this since I admit that I know nothing about the housing market, but those externalities must be dealt with!

    I have to admit, it does take some big balls to defend housing regulation at the anniversary of F.A. Hayek’s Nobel Prize at a right wing economics department like George Mason.

    1. Sweet Christ:

      “When I say I’m not an expert, and I’m not, I mean I don’t have opinions such as what particular government program should or should not exist,” Maskin continued. “One doesn’t have to be an expert in financial markets, though, to know that there are huge externalities. And simple economic theory, the economic theory that we teach our first-year graduate students, is enough to tell us that those markets left unregulated will not work very well. So I’m not proposing the solution but I’ve diagnosed the problem.”

      This is everything wrong with economics. This is a base appeal to authority. It’s true because our economic textbooks say it’s true and anyone who questions the textbooks is a heretic.

      Also, I love that state lovers like this guy do not acknowledge the existence of externalities to government programs. There are externalities to the housing market, you see, but no externalities whatsoever to vesting massive power to a collection of unelected bureaucrats who will be given control over the American housing market. What possible unintended consequences could there be to that?

      1. This guy’s an idiot. He’s saying. “Economics! Therefore, regulation” Naturally i wont name any specific regulation, because then I’d have to justify my point. So instead i’ll just appeal-to-authority and say, “Everything Agrees With Me”

      2. Regulators fix all externalities. If you were a first year econ grad student, you would know this.

        1. I’ve noticed that.

  27. The Independents Attire Review, 3 October 2014

    Happy Iraqi Independence Day-Edition

    – Kennedy: AHH!! Kennedy is covered with spots!! THEBOLA??! Not sure why but the different cut of the dress gives K. a more-formal look. It looks like the sort of thing to wear to an outdoor wedding, garden party, etc. More ‘mature’, but not ‘old’. Definitely dig it more than her “Schoolmarm/1950s psycho housewife”-looking things. +1 Milftastic

    – Matt: A variation of “The Pleasantville”, with what appears to be a dark-green-plaid tie. Matt’s grey-shirt experimentations tend to leave us thinking that maybe the black tie isn’t the worst choice after all. This isn’t horrible – the ‘neutral’ color is pretty good. My feeling regarding this shade of grey is that it would probably work best with a silver or similarly monochrome tie. I have yet to see any bright colors (esp. the red) that look natural with it.

    – Kmele: This is the plaid formula we like least. Particularly with this jacket; with Khaki or Navy, the bright colors look more casual and fun, while with the grey it looks less comfortable. Maybe sans tie it would be different.


  28. Financial crises! = boooooooooooring.

  29. lead over gold

    This guy is alright.

  30. Using the scene from Deep Impact instead of Armageddon? Fuck you, < i The Independents.

  31. Thank you, Travis. For telling it like it is and for referencing the better of the two meteor movies from 1998.

  32. “You know, give or take an epoch.”

  33. Well, we have tons of nukes. Let’s use them on some asteroids.

  34. “Hypercane” is on par with “Sharknado”

  35. The Alabama guy’s pauses seem to say, “What in the hell did this crazy woman just say”?

  36. This guy is a real downer.

  37. Next episode: The Independents…In Space

  38. Drop your Coffee Thins in your Four Loko and DIEEEEEEEEE!

  39. Imagine you drop your contact lens into the toilet bowl at the same moment the earth’s core explodes.

  40. Remember when Tim Cavanaugh made an ass out of himself by denying that EMP was a threat at all and that there was no need to harden the grid at all?

  41. Woolsey does a good job of outlining the most impractical and unlikely threats.

    We didn’t need a nuclear EMP for the 2003 blackout.

  42. Don’t our transformers have surge-protectors?

    It’s 2014. My Transformers have rockets.

  43. Did Woosley say a certain type of EMP would force us all to watch Transformer movies?

    1. I told you that Michael Bay was the Antichrist

    2. Quit stealing my entertainment references.

  44. Kennedy…

    Dynasty? Was she rereading the ‘summary line’ from the alabama guy?

      1. Ah. So, coincidence then


  46. What about the aliens who come here because our technology is greater than there’s?

    1. Mexicans?

      1. How about the ones who come here because our possessive pronouns are more correct than theirs?

        1. Trannies?

  47. Was watching baseball. Forgot all about TI. Miss anything?

    More importantly….WAS I MISSED?

    1. No. Take your pick which question that answers.

  48. Kmele Foster, for one, welcomes our alien overlords.

  49. Kennedy, any alien contact will end up like this.

    1. The aliens will never come to a world that has two-minute long television show title sequences.

  50. I’m pretty sure Lou Reed-worshiping, same-sex marrying Millennials that will bring the end of the world.

    1. Millenials like Lou Reed?

      1. Or the Ground Zero Mosque, idk.

  51. You haven’t seen *Doomsday Cults*??

    Were there not 300,000 of them in NYC last weekend?

  52. Hey Welch, Global Warming is a religious event.

  53. Who wants to meet in my office for gin – Kennedy

    Not anyone with any self-respect.

  54. I had a crush on his daughter Maura back in the Newsradio days.

  55. national short-term memory problem

    We’re a nation of goldfish.

  56. Oh, there’s no terrifying disaster imminent- AH! Lou Dobbs.

  57. Eeek! Dobbs


    Biden Overstates Deaths in Joplin, Missouri Tornado By 160,839

    Seriously, this is the Vice President of the United States? Is he literally retarded or senile or both?

    1. “They will greet us with flowers”

    2. “Seriously, this is the Vice President of the United States? Is he literally retarded or senile or both?”

      Remember there were people frothing at the mouth at the thought of Palin in that position.
      None seem at all concerned about the current ambulatory amusement.

        1. Palin’s Buttplug|10.3.14 @ 10:35PM|#
          “GO TEAM RED!”

          Right, turd. Whatever.

  59. “Tonight’s broadcast of Dodger Playoff Baseball is brought to you by the exhumed corpse of Jack Buck, who is here to remind you that a single legendary career can provide your family with enough cache to get your emotionless, no talent, ass clown son’s foot in the door for decades to come.”

    – Joe Buck

    1. Not a fan, I see.

      1. Not at all.

    2. Got his really ugly daughter a job as the weather lady on one of the local channels, too.

  60. Gold bubble still popping. What will be the bottom? I am on record for $700/oz. What say you, Peanuts?

    1. How many put options do you have, troll? None? Then you’re not on record.

      1. I shorted the GLD twice for no profit. It has been a slow motion burst, asswipe. Goldbugs are idiots though. I like to remind the Peanut Gallery of that fact periodically.

        1. Whatever, turd. Go away.

        2. Care to clarify what you mean by “no profit”? How much money did you lose?

          GLD isn’t fucking gold. It’s a trust with a prospectus so complicated that you’d have to be a fucking idiot to buy it.

          1. You are shorting an ETF?

            For fuck’s sake.

            Gold futures have a mini as well.

            That is the way to go, not an ETF

            CME actually has a full size, a mini and a micro

            I used to live on CBOT and to a lesser extent CME hours every day

            Even in the marketing lit they refer to the ETF as relatively efficient lol

            It’s fine to get some decent exposure, but shorting an ETF like that is so fucking clunky

            Futures are clean, liquid, fungible, and just the way to go

            Understandably they scare some people who are used to equities etc. but as long as you understand how the leverage works and don’t go overboard they neede not be aggressive and scary. They are also a really good way to trade against physical holdings etc. and of course that’s the original purpose of the them in the first place as regards to physical holdings

            1. So which agencies did you say you have worked for? You can leave out the current one, of course.

              1. Google slow tonight?

              2. I’ve worked for Maui County Police Department and on an agency in Martha’s Vineyard

                Maui County is provincial as fuck totally old-school pay you absolutely terribly and the cost of living is insane

                Also since there’s no market economy there there is just one police union and wage scale only for departments so it’s not like they can compete with each other for labor as here and thus create a nice competitive environment

                One way it’s different than here is that if two guys have a disagreement they will take off their gun belts and shirts go to the back parking lot and literally box it out

                After that they will be totally cool with each other and like brothers and that will be the end of it

                If somebody did that here on the mainland it would be a fucking federal investigation a huge big deal and a major scandal and lots of insane rhetoric

                The group of guys I work with there are some of the most awesome down to the earth humorous hard-working and selfless guys you could ever want to be with

          2. “It’s a trust with a prospectus so complicated that you’d have to be a fucking idiot to buy it.”

            I think that shoe fits the turd in question.

          3. Pl?ya Manhattan.|10.3.14 @ 10:39PM|#
            “Care to clarify what you mean by “no profit”? How much money did you lose?”

            Say early in the reign of Obo 1, turd bragged about how he had made tons of money from trading some commodity or other; maybe it was gold. And turd claimed he knew the ‘hot buy’, ’cause it was gonna take off!
            OK, times? When? Not ‘sometime soon’, when?
            It was obvious turd had nothing other than BS. There is no there, there.

    2. Whatever, turd.

    3. Goodnight Weigel

  61. Crude oil now below $90/bbl. US Dollar solid as a rock. Peanuts bewildered of course.

    1. Oh, and whoooo hooooo, gas at $3.50 a gallon. AWESOME!

    2. Palin’s Buttplug|10.3.14 @ 10:32PM|#
      “Crude oil now below $90/bbl.”

      Whatever, turd.

    1. I hope not. The next guy will want to do some more saber rattling for international cred.

      Also, if we’re going to be stuck with an oppressive dipshit dictator in the world, we might as well also get hilarious pictures of him going around NK looking at stuff.

      1. if you read the piece, its a case of the Servants taking over the castle.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the deal. But they will keep fatty around as long as they can to maintain appearance. Also, if there’s any real risk of problems, china will step in.

        1. Ah, nvm then. I saw something the other week speculating he’d been killed and thought this was referring to that.

        2. I think China looks at what it cost West Germany to pick up the pieces of East Germany and thinks “You think bringing millions of starving ignorants, brainwashed fanatics, and corrupt rulers into the 21st century will be cheap? Besides, we don’t want any competition in the corrupt ruler sector.”

          1. PapayaSF|10.4.14 @ 12:44AM|#
            “I think China looks at what it cost West Germany to pick up the pieces of East Germany…”

            Yep. That’s a boil on China’s ass they hope heals itself.

      2. No link to the picture at the lube factory?

        1. That was precisely what I was thinking of. Unfortunately I’m on my phone in the backseat with the baby while my navigates the 405 so Links and tagging are no go.

          1. Not even allowed to mention your wife, huh?

            1. Her driving caused me to delete it

              1. I have that problem, too.

    2. Vice would know about it before the CIA.

      1. Well, they’d be more likely to actually *talk* about it more than the CIA.

    3. From the link:

      “North Korea leads the world in human rights, says report by North Korea. Read more here.”

      So Tony writes for No Korea?

  62. gold bugs are not idiots.

    idiots are the people who try to enter the market way way late in other words.

    you buy when nobody else wants it or even mentions it or when there’s blood in the streets and you sell when everybody loves it

    God knows I have made some bad investments but starting to buy gold in 1994 just weeks after I signed on with Maui County Police Department was one of the best decisions I’ve made in my entire life.

    Unfortunately I in retrospect got out or mostly out too early but when I’m seeing it’s already tripled or quadrupled I just had to lessen my exposure and take some profits. Selling into a frothy short squeeze is always exciting

    But as is the case with everything over the last couple years everybody is talking about gold which is the best sign possible that it’s run most of its course where is a 1994 you could even find a gold quote on TV or in most newspapers

    Contrarianism been very good to me

    Like I said I’ve taken some big hits on some crap Castac investments and futures trades but stuff like getting into gold in the mid 90s more than made up for it

    My grandfather was right about almost everything but when he said gold was a bad longterm investment I just had to disagree

    Anybody frothing about gold right now is not a goldbug . goldbugs are people buying gold when nobody wanted it

    it’s so easy to get into the market now whereas back then there werevery few choices

  63. Now THIS is a case where the force appears unjustified and very possibly criminal. Without more facts I’m certainly not drawing a concrete conclusion but based on what I know in this case and when I have seen in the video it is most likely unjustified and also very likely an assault.

    I will qualify this by saying I am applying the standards for use of the Taser that have been established in the ninth circuit and this case is not apparently the ninth circuit but at least if that occurred in the Ninth Circuit it would most likely be a crime

    The case I am referring to may have been adopted as a national standard in regards to use of force caselaw I just don’t know either way


  64. SOunds like a soild pla to me dude.

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