The Independents

Tonight on The Independents: The White House Home Invasion, Obama Throws CIA Under the Bus, OK Beheading, Yes Means Yes = WTF?, School Choice Savings, and Homeschooling Scapegoats

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Whoopsie |||

Tonight's live episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later) begins with the news that the White House fence jumper from the other week went WAAYYYY further into ye olde presidential mansion than was originally reported by the Secret Service, probably because people are stupid liars and should be fired. Party Panelists Julie Roginsky (Fox News contributor) and Katie Pavlich (co-host, Outnumbered) will dissect, and then assess whether President Barack Obama unfairly threw his own intelligence agencies under the bus when it comes to the Islamic State. Later, the duo will weigh in on California's asinine new "Yes Means Yes" anti-rape law.

Was the beheading of a woman at a food plant in Oklahoma by a 30-year-old man who was busy trying to convert people to Islam an "act of terrorism," or an example of "workplace violence," or both/neither? The co-hosts will argue. How much money have school vouchers saved public school systems over the last two decades? It's a 10-figure number, says Robert C. Enlow of the Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice, which is releasing a brand new report on the topic. And speaking of educational de-control, you'll never guess which group of students and parents are being targeted by the Sandy Hook Advisory Commission as a response to the deadly rampage of Adam Lanza. I'll tell you all about it at the end of the program.

Online-only aftershow begins at foxbusiness.com/independents just after 10. Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

NEXT: Spanish Court Suspends Catalonia Independence Vote

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  1. Hey guys:

    I want to apologize for my bad behavior recently. I swear this will be my last post ever.

    1. Ah, I screwed up.

      1. Man up and change your screen name and keep posting.

        1. Sometimes I like to tuck my penis between my thighs and urinate like a girl. Is that the same thing?

      2. Only seppuku can erase the stain of honor upon you and your house.

        1. seppuku = bukkake ?

          Then yes I’ll do it.

          1. I said, erase the stain.

            Erase.

    2. This isn’t the real Road Guy, he just put a period at the end.

      1. Winston|9.29.14 @ 8:42PM|#
        “This isn’t the real Road Guy, he just put a period at the end.”

        He also didn’t ask us to disprove that some future president will be worse than Obo.

        1. To be fair, you disproved Jesus the other day.

          (har)

          1. To be fair, I don’t have to…

              1. Agammamon|9.29.14 @ 9:47PM|#
                “Whoa”

                Yeah, it’s TOUGH to prove something doesn’t exist!

                1. Sevo is correct.

      2. This isn’t the real Road Guy, he just put a period at the end.

        I’m flattered.

  2. “Was the beheading of a woman at a food plant in Oklahoma by a 30-year-old man who was busy trying to convert people to Islam an “act of terrorism,” or an example of “workplace violence,” or both/neither?”

    Well that all depends on whether Obama and John want to invade Oklahoma.

    If they do, it was an act of terrorism. If they don’t, it’s just workplace violence.

    At any rate, it’s an excellent reason to ban assault weapons.

    1. And for more diversity training.

  3. WHEN ARE THEY INVITING MOYNIHAN BACK ON? Probably Wednesday night when I’ll be a the NL wildcard game.

    1. We need to open a Kickstarter to produce the anti-John Oliver Show…that is produce a similar show, but starring Pat Condell.

    2. Sure is interesting how they left “leftwing politics” off the list of things teenagers are supposed to grow out of.

      And very nice how they left off her other novels inspired by living under the shadow of totalitarian government.

    3. Was he trying to out-smug Ayn Rand herself? It can’t be done, I say.

    4. Did we really need another daily show, but with a British accent?

  4. I just want to say as a side-note: it was refreshing to have as many as 2, All-Nick-Gillespie H&R posts on a single day.

    They were sharp, they abused the right people, they snarked at PhD level, they included Time magazine covers of Cats. Its the kind of thing i came here for in the first place.

    1. +1 leather jacket

      1. You’ve lost the ability to scroll down?

        1. Nevermind. Thought he meant post, as in “comment”.

  5. Also, I am concerned that we have a lack of men on the Party Panel to give the California “All Male-Students Are Rapists Until Proven Otherwise”-law some sense of balance.

    Maybe Julie could speak in a deep voice?

  6. Hi.

    /gives coy look.

    1. *wink*

      1. Nudge nudge

        1. He’s smaller than me. I get to be the dad.

  7. I have now seen the ‘end’ of Cavuto’s show about 100 times.

    I still do not know what the fuck the Deal is.

  8. Neil: Burberry Tie

    I think technically Burberry could sue him to prove that is in fact a Burberry licensed product. They are really litigious about that pattern AFAIK.

    They charge $150 for that shit. That is officially what I consider “bullshit” prices. You’re not cool: you’re a sucker.

    1. That salmon shit is “supposed” to be Burberry?

      Huh…

      1. No – he had This on

        1. Burberry is just kind of meh and is to some extent capitalising on past reputation

          Contrast with for example Turnbull and Asser

          I treasure my T&A 🙂 shirts and they are worth every penny

          Even amongst those who go bespoke with their suits, many don’t go that distance with shirts

          It does make a difference

          I challenge anybody to get some bespoke shirts of high-quality because once you experience it it’s really hard to go back

  9. It looks like someone took tie knotting classes.

  10. The term is “Praetorian Guard”, lovelies.

  11. If Obama has to replace the lady Secret Service head with a man, he would have to pay more.

  12. I wish they’d put the name of the panelists on the screen more often. I keep looking and think it’s someone named “Rackspace Hosting” or whatever.

    1. Did somebody say rack?

    2. MOAR important to have that stock ticker at the bottom of the screen. That’s where I go for my stock prices. I sit in front of FBN for a half hour waiting for it.

      Oops. Missed it. Now I’m in for a full hour.

      1. My pony did well today.

          1. I’ll share the info:
            http://www.google.com/search?c…..8&oe=UTF-8

            Expect more of the same tomorrow.

  13. When given the choice between the truth and a lie, with equal outcomes, this administration will lie just to stay in practice.

  14. Matt is so cute talking about accountability.

    /White Goodman giggle.

  15. Make an example of someone? Obama is the model for constant lying. They are following his lead.

  16. So < i The Independents is pining for more aggressive law enforcement?

  17. If he had fired Klapper when he lied to Kkkongress Obummer wouldn’t have to toss him out now.

  18. Oh come on, Kennedy. Of course Clapper knew. He’s just taking the arrows for Obama, who also knew, but ignored it and is lying about it now.

  19. Like Kroft doesn’t give the White House his questions in advance.

  20. Clap on. Clap off. The Clapper!

    1. Did you cop to the Copper Clapper Caper?

  21. Oh come on, Kmele. If we’d had one fucking company on the ground in Iraq, and a handful of aircraft, ISIS would not be holding any Iraqi territory.

  22. The Iraqi army will approach effective as long as Iraqis aren’t leading it.

    1. It’s crazy to remember that Iraq was home to several great empires and civilizations, huh?

      1. I know. It was weird for me to visit Greece and Italy and think: “These people used to rule much of the known world?” I wonder if tourists will say that about the USA in 100 or 500 years.

        1. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR TO ME LATELY?

          1. “You can tell it was a rich civilization from the ruins underneath the layer of Obamaphones.”

        2. I wonder if tourists will say that about the USA in 100 or 500 years.

          Wouldn’t be surprised if a sarcophagus Disney World ends up being visited like Pompeii, with examples of how Americans lived when they ruled the planet.

          1. There will be a plague stating that there was one tribe called libertarians who tried to stop the madness, but they were sadly too few…

            1. You hope there’s a plaque saying that. More likely the children will be told scary stories of the evil libertarians who caused the Fall by resisting the raising of taxes and the power of the state.

              And, of course, they’ll be told that in Spanish.

              1. Thanks for not pointing out that I said plague when I meant plaque. I know how hard that is to resist.

              2. Oh come on Papaya, Spanish? Not Arabic after we get conquered by the Mooslim hordes? Step up the fearmongering

                1. Your constant contradictions are beginning to weary me.

  23. Roger Goodell should run in 2016.

    1. He should run as Republican so he can let us down one more time.

  24. Clapper must be a libertarian with a name like that…

    1. Or an infomercial.

  25. Yes, the OK headlopper is pretty much the perfect example of a “lone wolf terrorist.”

    1. Those jihadis just need some lovin’

      Hmmm, how about okheadlopper.com?

    2. PapayaSF|9.29.14 @ 9:13PM|#
      “Yes, the OK headlopper is pretty much the perfect example of a “lone wolf terrorist.””

      Or, you might call him a “murderer” if you don’t need ammo for an agenda.

      1. Or, you might call him a “murderer” if you don’t need ammo for an agenda.

        This. A murder is a murder is a murder. “Terrorist” is a politically charged term that has led to an explosion of intrusive government policies.

        1. Amen!

          Before you know it all murderers are terrorists, so you can end-run normal procedures.

          1. OK, so the question-framing is wrong.

            Was this a murder for just self-serving purposes, or was it an ideologically-driven murder?

            Ostensibly, it it had any of the latter involved, the investigation gets larger.

            Yeah, more government involvement either way. However, I am for policing to prevent murder.

            1. “Was this a murder for just self-serving purposes, or was it an ideologically-driven murder?
              Ostensibly, it it had any of the latter involved, the investigation gets larger.”

              Why?

              1. Because, if there is an ideology involved, there is a good chance there are other people involved. In this case, Islamists in the U.S., looking to kill Americans.

                It seems pretty obvious that this guy was influenced by others. Not that there was a conspiracy, per se, but there are people in the world call for other to do what he did.

                Did he do it because, “Screw you for firing me”, or, “Aha, an opportunity to make a statement in support of my bretheren”, or both? Or, neither, maybe?

                1. Trouser-Pod|9.29.14 @ 9:38PM|#
                  “Because, if there is an ideology involved, there is a good chance there are other people involved. In this case, Islamists in the U.S., looking to kill Americans.”
                  Man, you got a TON of assumptions there.

                  “It seems pretty obvious that this guy was influenced by others. Not that there was a conspiracy, per se, but there are people in the world call for other to do what he did.”
                  So? If he read horror stories, he’d have been ‘influenced by others’.
                  Did you major in Innuendo?

            2. the investigation gets larger.

              And fails to meet Constitutional requirements for government inquiry on citizens. (see: due process)

              1. And fails to meet Constitutional requirements for government inquiry on citizens. (see: due process)

                What does?

                1. Mass & warrant-less surveillance, detaining people without ever giving them a trial, murdering citizens without a trial, etc. Take your pick.

                  1. Who brought that up? It wasn’t me.

                    I was talking about murder investigations. Or, about conspiracy to commit murder.

            3. Terror is a public act – a message to a wide audience. Murders are more often hidden to avoid responsibility. Not the same; easily distinguished.

              1. BigT|9.29.14 @ 9:35PM|#
                “Terror is a public act – a message to a wide audience. Murders are more often hidden to avoid responsibility. Not the same; easily distinguished.”

                So?

                1. So this seems pretty clearly not “just a murder.”

                  1. PapayaSF|9.29.14 @ 10:01PM|#
                    “So this seems pretty clearly not “just a murder.””

                    So?

              2. Workplace violence *is* terrorism – just not the terrorism that the government likes to talk about.

                Its an act designed to cause terror. The perpetrator *want* people to be afraid of him, its often triggered because people were insufficiently fearful and (in his mind) bullied and took advantage of him.

                1. Agammamon|9.29.14 @ 10:01PM|#
                  “Workplace violence *is* terrorism – just not the terrorism that the government likes to talk about.

                  Its an act designed to cause terror. The perpetrator *want* people to be afraid of him, its often triggered because people were insufficiently fearful and (in his mind) bullied and took advantage of him.”

                  So this is the accounting department threatening to turn you in to the IRS?

            4. It was an ideologically-driven murder done for self-serving purposes.

              By beheading this woman and ‘striking a blow for Islam’ (or whatever) this guy is attempting to add purpose and nobility to what is really just the angry lashing out of an emasculated man who feels the world doesn’t fear him enough.

              The attack is his roar, the one he wants the world to hear. Its a statement that he is not someone who you can continue to push around.

              Unfortunately (for him), we don’t take perpetrators of workplace violence seriously. The first thing you think of when you hear about someone shooting up their shop is ‘meek loser who finally snapped’, or just’ crazy psycho who finally snapped’. These people are not looked to by anyone (except other meek losers) as ‘heroic’ or ‘manly’.

              By adding in this ‘jihad’ angle, he elevates himself from ‘pathetic loser’ to ‘heroic revolutionary and matyr’.

              1. Agree. I think that’s the best view of this so far.

              2. I largely agree, Agammamon, but adding “purpose and nobility” to anger is what terrorists do, too. So I don’t think your analysis excludes calling this terrorism. Lone wolf terrorists can do things like this without getting direct orders from ISIS Central.

                1. On the other hand – its certainly should not be added to the (very short) list of reasons justifying attacking ISIS.

                2. Lone wolf terrorists can do things like this without getting direct orders from ISIS Central.

                  Kind of the whole point of 4th generation warfare, no?

              3. “By adding in this ‘jihad’ angle, he elevates himself from ‘pathetic loser’ to ‘heroic revolutionary and matyr’.”

                You realize, of course, that you’ve just caught up with what Mark Steyn has been pointing out for years.

                1. I haven’t ‘just caught up with anybody’, this has been my opinion both on workplace violence and ‘revolutionaries’ in general for years.

                  Its the main reason why I don’t support the new war in Iraq – we are just giving *meaning*, validation to their bullshit and and excuse for these arseholes atrocities.

        2. “Terrorist” is a politically charged term that has led to an explosion of intrusive government policies.

          Yeah, but that doesn’t mean terrorists don’t exist. Look, the guy was a religious nut, like a whole lot of other religious nuts doing similar things. Instilling terror is an essential part of that mindset. He didn’t just want to kill someone, he wanted to do it in a specific way that has, shall we say, religious and political connotations.

          1. PapayaSF|9.29.14 @ 9:38PM|#
            “Terrorist” is a politically charged term that has led to an explosion of intrusive government policies.
            Yeah, but that doesn’t mean terrorists don’t exist.”

            So what?

          2. The retards that bomb abortion clinics are religious nuts too, but I wouldn’t call them “terrorist” in an attempt to virtually tie them to the IRA.

            1. There have been a handful of such abortion clinics bombers in decades, not tens or hundreds of thousands. They are not trying to establish a worldwide religious dictatorship. They have vanishingly minuscule support among co-religionists, and no rich backers. Thus, very different from Islamic terrorists.

    3. Does it matter?

      Is the punishment for “beheading people” different if there’s a ‘reason’?

      1. I thought only progs judged things by the “reasons” (feelings about?) something is done, as opposed to the morality (or lack thereof) of the action itself.

  26. How did that guy even get a job with the record he had? And when you fire a guy like that, why no security?

  27. DON’T JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.

    Unless when it comes to people who want to carry a gun. Then concluse away.

    1. Obviously, anyone who would take their personal safety upon themselves is a racist, teabagging, bitter-clinger!

  28. I don’t think he’s a terrorist, but obviously radical Islam is at play there.

  29. violence towards political ends

    Like commie’s?

  30. Kmele: Bullshiting about a topic he knows absolutely nothing about since 9/11/01. I mean, what does Clive Kessler know? I mean he’s just an Professor emeritus of Sociology and Anthropology who has spent most of his scholarly career studying political Islam since before Kmele was born?

    1. Yeah, giving the nudge to Kennedy and Matt.

      1. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again… Kmele talking about Israel/Islam/The Middle East, et al. is like watching a clown vomit in slow-motion; it is equal parts hilarious and horrifying.

        1. You said that thing about Clowns Vomiting before? I almost think I would have remembered that. It catchy.

          1. It was my one sincere attempt to Two Minutes Hate.

  31. There is no security. -Wulfgar

  32. Well, don’t Jihadists constantly call for people to rise up and commit these crimes?

    If so, how is it not on the ‘terrorism spectrum’?

    On the other hand, if some lone crazy goes shooting people in the name of ‘libertarianism’ it rightly would be denounced among libertarians.

  33. The Independents Attire Review, 29 September 2014

    Iron and Blood-Edition

    – Kennedy: Gidget! You’re Back! OMG, Surf Dance Everybody!!! As the camera pulls back, it appears less like a bikini and more ‘halter-top’, but fuck it: I run with first impressions. Its way hot. My only complaint is that the lighting makes Kennedy’s blemish-free skin look oddly like those ‘flesh colored tights’ cheerleaders wear.

    – Matt: Hooray for the return of the Purple-Yellow Candy Cane tie! which has been in hiding all year long, and debuts in the fall lineup w/ Pink shirt, bringing a pleasant complement to an oft mis-matched color. We offically vote this combo ahead of the reddish ‘tie that likes the pink shirt’, and a strong #2 choice overall relative to the PowerMatt combos. Matt receives default victory tonight for the pleasant surprise. We only wonder what took so long, as this tie has been in his closet for at least 6 years or more.

    – Kmele: Damn. Sharpest we’ve seen Kmele in very long. The reign of plaids, sweaters, and bow ties has detracted in a major way from Kmele’s ‘Core Sport Coat’ skills, and we welcome the more-conservative move. We also think the “hanky that matches shirt” instead of tie is actually a variation that looks great. More please.

    Danke sch?n

  34. BREAKING NEWS!!!

    Stop pretending to be a news anchor, Kennedy.

  35. Protest? or Chinese New Year?

      1. please – ‘Hashanah’, my mensch.

        although i knew a Rose Shoshanna Schwartz once

        1. So her name was Rose Rose Schwartz?

          Speaking of that Shoshanna Lonstein has some big old titties.

          Just want to put that out there.

          1. Is that what shoshanna means? I am guessing that the parents told her she could go by “either”, and it came out as,

            ‘Rose (shoshanna) Schwartz’

            as in /or

            1. To be fair, the word can refer to either a lily or a rose.

        2. That was a lame attempt to apply a Chinese accent.

  36. goblin’ up the news

    Weak.

  37. So murderers can’t have kids with Twitter feeds?

    1. Fuck that, blame Canada!

  38. Jeebus, the thread prior to this one was the most troll ridden shit I’ve witnessed around here in a long time. And neither Tony nor Shreek were there!

    1. This from the ignorant twit who says that it’s only Second Amendment rights in the US where we are seeing improvement

      1. I didn’t say that, you dumb shit. I said that the only thing that sets the US above some other countries in freedom is the 2nd amendment. You can’t even get that straight? Do I need to copy and paste for you?

        Well, here’s an example of what I mean.

        1. Oh actually, in that case I apologise

          I did not grok your point

          My bad. I was wrong

          1. This is normal for you

            Fuck off slaver

            1. Smooches, FUQ

          2. You might not realize also, that when I was complaining about trolls on that thread, I wasn’t talking about you, I was referring to that Michael Hihn retard. I appreciate the apology, maybe try to not be so quick to go all Cytotoxic.

            1. You are welcome

              Fwiw, I did not assume that you were calling me a troll. I’m called a lot of things but not really that usually since I think most people at least give me the credit to recognise that however wickety-whack my views are I sincerely believe them and I’m not posting for effect.

              Well, except when I am clearly just having fun riffing on peeps or getting all grandiose and shit.

              But point taken regarding increased prudence needed to avoid cytotoxicism.

              Cheers and hth

  39. Our society deserves a biblical flood.

    1. The problem is the fucking commies will blame global warming.

      1. To be fair, they blame EVERY natural weather event on AGW, Climate Change, or w/e they are calling it this month.

      2. Everything has been predeterminately blamed on global warming, from now on, forever. Got a cold?, global warming. Bad hair day?, global warming. Your girlfriend just dumped you?, global warming. It’s cold today?, global warming. See how easy it is, no one has to think, it’s easy!

        1. The weather was perfect today. GLOBAL WARMING!

  40. So, when I see one of these wrist-drones outside my window, it will be Kennedy the peeping tom mom.

  41. How could affirmative consent laws ever “reduce sexual assault” by widening definitions of it?

      1. You been cheating on Stossel again with that negro?

        1. If only Kmele would grow a big bushy stache.

          1. I dunno, Kmele would look really weird with a big bushy stache. What if Kennedy grows on?

  42. College men do not have rights and more than other animals.

  43. Assault claims. You just admitted there’s seldom proof.

  44. The Independents is great. I always wondered what it would be like if the creator of Lamb Chop’s Play Along decided to do cable news instead.

    PS I am referring to that obnoxious Kennedy woman.

    1. Remember when it was better for a couple of weeks before Matt let her escape from captivity in his dungeon lair?

  45. KENNEDY IS BLAMING THE VICTIM.

  46. These are clearly self-hating women, but I am being redundant, since this is Fox and there are no REAL FEMINISTS on Fox.

    Rape Apologists, ALL!!

    /Derp

    that said – has anyone else ever been having sex, and he/she announced that a certain specific thing was ‘not happening’?

    eg. certain one night stands, i’ve been told NOT to offer oral services. too ‘intimate’. Just hump like a caveman, she said. I am only there to help, so right-o then.

    In this new regime, any confusion as to ‘micro assenting’ results in a default ‘crime’ which a person could later accuse the other at any point

    (because as we all know, people who get freaky w/ each other NEVER suddenly have falling-outs)

    just saying

    1. Where there any milf nailing rapist bears in that story?

      1. hmmmm.

        No.

        Although once…

        forget it.

        1. Well, mister, you better learn to get some milf nailing and rapist bears in your stories around here!

          1. I once wore a bear suit?

            No wait, it was a gorilla suit.

  47. WAIT!

    How will this affect porn on campuses videos?

    1. From now on, all Pr0n on campus is rape!

      1. We used to have porn movies openly playing (and advertized) in a state school building on Saturday nights.

  48. Welch is a masher! I knew it.

  49. Jurassic 5? I can’t think of a more un-libertarian group, besides maybe RATM!

    1. weaksauce backpacker rap like that drove me into the arms of dirty south

  50. Mystery Science Theater 3000 would tear apart The Independents.

    1. They should do a show that way: the three hosts from the back and in silhouette, talking back to a stream of news clips on a screen.

  51. Vouchers is starting to be discussed up here in Canada.

  52. Nothing is more blood-boiling than the idiotic arguments i hear from people trying to convince me that “we can’t allow school choice because….”

    insert: something something, “some kid somewhere might be exposed to creationism”…something something…”it uses ‘government money for religion*’

    *because ‘government money’? when they DONT take it away from you and spend it for you? See, that still has rules

    1. The whole fucking thing about vouchers is that they want to act like this is ‘free government money’, when they’re already taking the cash out of your pocket to pay for their shitty schools.

      1. They inevitably fail to understand a locus of control issue

        They will claim voucher money spent on a religious school is a government endorsement of religion

        That’s almost as stupid is saying if I pay money for a religious school since my salary is paid by the public that there is an endorsement of religion

        The decider to borrow a great bushi as to where the voucher money goes is the parent thus there is no government endorsement

        As I understand it My state goes far enough such that state scholarship money etc cannot be used by a recipient to pay for certain educational links to Religious institutions

    2. I especially love the “we must not allow government money to fund religious schools” argument, because my dad went to a Catholic college on the GI Bill.

      1. What kills me is that they don’t understand that it *isn’t government money*

        Its money the government already took from you, and is now just ‘letting you have *some* back’…

  53. Sure, it’s all good for parents, but what about teachers who need jobs no matter merit? What about them?

  54. For fuck sake, how hard is it to put a clock up for guests, in studio and remote, to let them know how much time they have left? Do you get some kind of perverse pleasure cutting people off at the knees?

    1. Great idea! But let’s have a huge gong and a tow-headed ginger. The Gong Show resurrection.

    2. Kennedy learned everything she knows about hosting a talk show from watching Bill O’Reilly and imaging how that would work for a libertarian.

  55. YOU CAN’T STOP CRAZY PEOPLE BY ATTACKING NORMAL PEOPLE.

    1. *Note: This person needs more oversight. has ‘authority issues’

  56. Ahoy! Dobbs

  57. OMG, not Derbz!

  58. I want to know what not to google.

    1. Everything that Sugar Free or Warty posts.

  59. Foster liked Modest Mouse before anyone else.

    1. Modest mouse is one of the great mysteries of the universe

      I do not understand how one can have Johnny Marr one of the greatest guitarists in the history of mankind in your band and still suck

  60. If Christie knew, he’s a dirtbag. If he didn’t know, he’s incompetent. NO VOTE.

  61. I don’t know what to make of that aftersho- CUTOFF

  62. What strange brain waves would cause a beautiful woman to vote for fucking Jindal?!

  63. Man, do I love watching the Patriots just get conpletely and utterly boatraced like this. I hope Reid keeps running up the score on their asses.

    1. You actually like seeing Harry Reid and his statists destroy the last few patriots in the USA? You don’t belong on a libertarian website.

    2. Mike Munger, you have changed.

  64. From the Dunphy anecdote file a good example of why police unions rock…

    A cop who I have a trained with on several occasions – he’s a powerlifter, though, but has dabbled in Olifting…

    He works for a pretty big agency with a very good union

    He gets accused of punching a suspect in the mouth specifically a detained suspect where it would clearly be unjustified and actually would be assault

    The question was not was the punch justified the question was did the punch happen

    Among the reasons for concluding he punched the guy the department relied on a report from a medic who examined the complainant who had a cut inside his mouth and said it was from a punch

    The medic was not doing some kind of detailed forensic analysis of the wound but simply remarked that the complainant claimed it to be from a punch and that there was in fact a cut inside his mouth from where the lip impacted the teeth

    There were some conflicting witness testimony yada yada but as far as the medical evidence that is the extent to which the department investigated And drew their conclusion

    1. The alleged assault occurred in a parking lot but did the internal investigators look around for it videotape evidence which is often present in such places?

      No

      My friend advise them that he was going to go look for some and get it accompanied by another officer so he could not be accused of any wrongdoing but unfortunately none of the cameras in the area covered the area of the alleged assault

      Hint: if he was really guilty why would he be seeking out videotape of the crime scene?

      Despite the fact that he is not convicted at the trial the department goes through with termination

      He gets his job back and a year of backpay through the wonders of binding arbitration

      1. He was fired because the department claimed he was lying which is dishonesty of course and essentially their claim of dishonesty boils down to they didn’t believe his claim he was innocent therefore he was lying yes it’s that tautological.

        And of course their primary reason to believe he punched the guy was because the guy claimed he did, some pictures and the medical report

        It was undisputed that the guy had been proned out during arrest and the officers theory was that he probably got the injury when he was being pressed down against the ground or otherwise when his head hit the ground

        1. The union said well if he didn’t punch the guy then let’s get some strong physical evidence – they looked around and found a doctor who had years of experience as a fight doctor in martial arts and had seen literally hundreds of people after they have been punched and was familiar with various aspects of the type of trauma one receives when one is punched in the face

          If I recall correctly he had even been present at some bareknuckle bouts and that’s was especially qualified in that respect

          1. To conclude the fight doctor concluded that the injury was not consistent with a punch but was consistent with an injury sustained during the prone out

            Without the union there’s a good chance he would’ve been convicted and he certainly would have lost his job for something he clearly did not do

            Booya police unions

            1. Without the union there’s a good chance he would’ve been convicted and he certainly would have lost his job for something he clearly did not do

              Lower standards. I don’t have a Union that defends me in criminal cases. I have to hire a lawyer for that.

              Why can’t he just hire a fucking lawyer like the little people?

              1. Actually the union did not defend him in the criminal case the union hired the doctor to help him in any department case but that evidence was usable in the criminal case

                My union does not defend us in criminal cases they defend us in departmental discipline as usual the ignorant to fail to understand these distinctions

                There are exceptions and it depends upon particularities but at least in the last four guys I know we were criminally charged none of them got union attorneys

                I am sorry you are against the rights of people to contract with other people for services I guess you don’t like markets. Typical of many faux libertarians.

                I pay my union $50 a paycheck or essentially a little bit less than an hour of wages

                In return I get services that’s how markets work.

                Granted there are aspects of union contracts that do offend me but the fact that they provide services for a fee is not one of them

                1. It has nothing to do with police qua police unions exist in many professions.

                  Again people make decisions in a market. There are many careers where I would choose to work that are not represented by unions but police work is not one of them.

                  It’s nice to have a organization that fights for civil rights due process justice etc.

                  I support the idea of having a union as a police officer just as I support the idea of wearing a body Camera to protect myself

                  I’ve worked in different careers where I would not want to use either but then they didn’t have the risks that justified wearing a body Camera or having union protection

                  1. Jesus fucking Christ on the cross, will you PLEASE shut the fuck up?

                    Do you have any idea of how much of a fucking arrogant fucking asshole you come across as? You are the shining example of what everyone here despises about pigs.

                    You may, in fact, be the most self centered, egomaniacal, conceited, cunt to ever walk the earth. You are a caricature of the disgusting, tiny dicked, didn’t get enough attention as a child, braggart, asshole that everyone associates with people of your sorry assed profession.

                    Just shut the fuck up.

                    1. Ah yes the continued false assertion that everybody associates this type of stuff with cops when in fact all the data shows they associate professionalism and respect with our career

                      Sorry but your bigoted circle jerking Echo chamber is not representative of what everybody thinks regardless of your grandiose claims

                      And of course as long as there are dozens of people asking me to Die in a fire and throwing insults at me because they don’t understand the nobility of my profession you are goddamn Skippy I will brag like a motherfucker! 🙂

                      Smooches

                    2. you are goddamn Skippy I will brag like a motherfucker!

                      Surprise!

      2. Hint: if he was really guilty why would he be seeking out videotape of the crime scene?

        Yeah, and OJ hired a private investigator to find out who killed his ex.

        So fucking what.

        1. From the files of ‘stupid analogies’

          Good example

          Yours has no analogy

          In my example, if the ofc was guilty there could be no benefit by seeking out video. It would either harm him or be unhelpful (not portray scene)

          No guilty person would do this

          A guilty person would benefit by not seeking out same since usually within days to weeks they get erased over and thus inculpatofy evidence would disappear before dept got it

          Thank you for continuing the bigot tendency of responding to facts with completely irrelevant analogy

          Smooches!

    2. A cop who I have a trained with on several occasions – he’s a powerlifter

      Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

      1. Yea, I know. He needs a real sport like Weightlifting

        ;p

        The guy’s really typical of the kind of diversity we see among officers

        He holds two masters degrees and was already getting a full pension from his prior job before he decided to serve this community as an officer

        If you saw the guy he looks like a complete Neanderthal especially with his patented patrol buzz cut but throws around terms like collateral estoppel and is one of the most intelligent people I’ve ever met, being brilliant in physics engineering and math.

        1. On the other hand, you get to see the average ‘above-average’ police officer on ‘Cops’.

          Cops telling a guy’ you’re not being arrested, I’m only detaining you’. That’s *after* putting cuffs on him and accusing him of having marijuana.

          Another cop telling a guy that if he doesn’t come clean about any drugs or weapons he has on him he’ll be charged with ‘tampering with evidence’.

          something like 90% of those stops are on the pre-text of a traffic violation, where the cop immediately starts looking for drugs. Its disgusting.

          Cops sticking his gun in the face of a vehicle’s drive because the passenger was ‘fidgeting.

          Or the latest video making the rounds – where a cop thinks a death sentence is appropriate for a guy he’s stopping, in broad daylight at a busy gas station, for not wearing a seatbelt.

          All these things have in common is that they’re stupid laws designed to give the cops some reason to look for drugs.

          And these are the *better* cops in the station, obviously the ones the brass think can be trusted to not do something to embarrass the department.

          1. Your analysis of these alleged bad acts by cops doesn’t make sense but of course I expect that from people who don’t understand procedure or the law

            They rode with me a few times but unfortunately we never got an airable incident

            We had some that would’ve looked awesome but unfortunately the people would not sign the release and they can’t air stuff unless they get a signed release since it’s not news it’s entertainment

            We had one mentally L dude who threw a big ass knife at us and tried to light his house on fire after dousing it and himself with gasoline.

            As best I can glean from the polling data the show has done a pretty good job at increasing public awareness of what we do and public admiration

            But yeah next time you watch cops and you see some drunk off his ass guy doing some seriously silly stuff remember that he signed a release

            1. So you don’t have a duty to not enforce unconsitutional/unjust laws?

              Funny, I thought your job was to serve and protect us, not enforce laws handed down from on high.

              1. Ah yes this canned response from the archives

                You can do better though throw in a couple of Nazi analogies and some more Ivory Tower criticism from those who complain about the problem instead of doing something to make the world a better place

                We are out there saving lives helping people and as poll after pollshows the public respects us for it

                You have your miscalculated price of everything and value of nothing and that’s about it

                Smooches!

                1. Fuck you. It’s not a canned response, that’s your motherfucking job asshole.

                  You aren’t a Nazi, just a delusional dickhead.

                  Oh, and nice job not bothering to answer the question.

      2. But is he fucking Morgan Fairchild?

        1. I might have read somewhere that Jon Lovitz is coming to Seattle

    3. Dunphy, no one cares.

      You’re the guy who defended the prison guards who failed to do their job and got one of their own killed because of their lapse.

      1. I bought the ‘reasonable cop’ pitch until I once pointed out that cops are the janitors of society; they clean up the mess on aisle #6.
        in return I got some happy horseshit about ‘snappy blue uniforms’ and, uh, something…
        Fail.

        1. Except society doesn’t agree with you

          As polling data shows they correctly assess police as amongst the careers most to be respected

          Outside your narrow bubble, the public gets it

          1. Shocker, the public is retarded.

            Get back to me when y’all have precogs and can actually PREVENT crime. Then you can be considered more than the clean up crew.

            1. Thank you for demonstrating yet again the kind of elitism that makes your ilk sosimilar to Progressives

              A Massive part of what makes my job so rewarding and what makes cops like me so effective is that we love and respect our fellow men instead of disdaining them from your moms basement

              That’s how I’ve done 20 years without a single complaint

              If you have some good verbal judo good patrol practices a lot of luck and you treat people with love and respect that’s what happens

              It’s a people job we are people people and nothing is more rewarding than saving a life in a burning building or catching a predator who in your town to kill a witness

              Hth

              1. The only elitist here is you, going on and on about how important and awesome cops are.

                Guess what, you’re SUPPOSED to be a decent human being and you’re SUPPOSED to put your life on the line. THAT IS YOUR MOTHERFUCKING JOB.

                Cleaning the streets of the shitty criminals (you know, people that have actually violated someone’s rights as opposed to violating the king’s edict) IS an important job and I’ve never said otherwise so save me your “you’re just like Progressives” bullshit.

      2. I have no idea what you’re talking about and clearly people care since they respond

        But it’s typical of reason bigots to think that they speak for everybody else

        I’m not sure what you’re talking about in the prison case only case I can think of was the woman who was killed recently in Washington prison due to a number of poor safety practices that her and her coworkers had been complaining about for years

        I’m sure there’s some kind of abstract irrelevant and silly point you’re trying to make but God knows what it is

        1. Now I know you’re the real Dunphy. Nobody else whips out the bigot line as fast as you do when we aren’t on our knees felating our “protectors”.

          1. That’s fair cop mate

            Of course you misstate as usual which is what I would expect

            It’s not that you and your ilk refuse to fellate us

            It’s that you and your ilk ignore the facts fail to understand basic concepts and spread all kinds of lies hatred and animosity towards us

            Fortunately the truth has a dignity all its own so I will continue to provide it

            Hth

  65. This my friend is why we roll with the punches.

    http://www.Ano-Web.tk

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