Tonight on The Independents: The Skies Over Baghdad Have Been Re-Illuminated, Chris Moody on Rand Paul's Flip-Flops, Jacob Sullum on Asset Forfeiture, Former Linebacker Darrell Reid on the NFL, Plus NSA, Chinese Sidewalks, Hillary, & Aftersho

Tonight's live episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later) starts with breaking news: The United States has launched its first air strikes near Baghdad, in this the latest American war of choice in that cursed land. Joining to talk about that and other world reaction to the latest ISIS beheading are Party Panelists Katie Pavlich (co-host, Outnumbered) and Basil Smikle (Democratic political strategist). The two will also discuss Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign sorta-kickoff, and one Chinese town's central-planning solution for pedestrians who stare at their cell-phones.

Speaking of 2016, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) has gone through the media wringer today for his alleged flip-floppery. The author of one such piece, Chris Moody of Yahoo! News, will give a breakdown. Speaking of getting out the whippin' stick, former NFL linebacker Darrell Reid will give his two cents on the criminal child-injury indictment of star Vikings running back Adrian Peterson, which is just the latest in a string of very unpleasant news from professional football.

Beloved Reason Senior Editor Jacob Sullum will come on to explain how civil forfeiture laws (and enabling Supreme Court decisions) allowed cops to become robbers, and Kmele Foster will explain how the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has quietly re-authorized the National Security Agency's controversial and probably unconstitutional bulk-data collection program.

Online-only aftershow begins at foxbusiness.com/independents just after 10. Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sullum needs to put on his happy face.

[GILMORE]

Is that the one without the beard?

[Dances-with-Trolls]

So a big win for free-market crony capitalism in Massachusetts today.

Massachusetts' highest court on Monday threw out a lawsuit seeking to block Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA.O) from selling its luxury electric cars directly to consumers in the state, enabling it to bypass traditional dealerships.

[Carl ?s his ? for ?s]

It is a win for the free market. The fact that a crony capitalist will take advantage of it doesn't change that.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

If and when it extends beyond Telsa I'll consider it a win for the free market.

[Hyperion]

Agree, why the hell in this day and age does selling an automobile need a franchise of slimeball lying and otherwise worthless car salesmen on commission to sell a car?

Just go online, pick out some cars you want to drive and show up at the fucking car store to drive some, cut out the middle man, cause the middle man is made up largely of morons who couldn't get a job that actually required any skills.

[Paul.]

One can't help but wonder if it won because the state sees this as a 'favoured industry'.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Yes. Do you think Kia would have gotten a pass?

[Rock Action]

El-P and Killer Mike put out a killer release of their new album. Hilarious. I hope you all downloaded the original Run The Jewels just to see it. I'd link to it, but I think it gives away my email or something like that... 🙁

[Paul.]

Jacob Sullum, a younger Salman Rushdie?

[Headless Body of Agnew]

No. He looks like Jonah Goldberg with his beard trimmer set to "sinister".

Young Salman Rushdie looks like he hung out at Warhol's Factory, and wrote Lou Reed's best lyrics.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Flip-flopper: Def n. A "flexible realist" from an opposing political party.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Penn Jillette calls Lindy West a stupid and unfunny cunt, Amanda Marcotte is convinced its because he hates women who have an opinion

Here is what Penn actually wrote

How exactly do you read that and conclude he was upset about her having an opinion rather than her being a god-awful writer and comedian?

[Hyperion]

Then he should call Marcotte a stupid cunt, because it's the truth.

[Paul.]

Because Marcotte agrees with whatever opinion West had? Just a guess without clicking the links.

[GILMORE]

"
Haruko Haruhara DQKennard ? an hour ago

One of the biggest fundamental flaws with Libertarianism is that it assumes everyone will do what's best for society out of the goodness of their hearts without having some regulatory entity telling them to ... or that somehow the marketplace will take care of people who don't do what's best for society.:"

[Hyperion]

Well, I guess when you get elected or appointed to a bureaucracy, which immediately imbues sainthood upon one, then everything changes and the incorruptible then have the super human godlike powers to do goodness that the libertarians are incapable of, being mere mortals.

It's fantasy like thinking of this type that is always the downfall of these statist luddites. they are always babbling about human nature, while understanding nothing about it.

[Andrew S.]

Pro pro pro... PROJECTION!

[Trouser-Pod]

best for society

Always about the collective with these assholes.

[trshmnster the terrible]

When you're struggling to pay your electric bill and food bill at the same time, you develop this faith that out there somewhere is somebody who will make it all work out. People used to turn to God. Now, people of all religions turn to the State. *genuflects*

[Trouser-Pod]

I agree. However, I think that schmucks point isn't about that so much as it's about everyone being a good little cog in the mechanism, good being defined by them.

For them, the NAP is just a stepping stone, not a cornerstone.

[PapayaSF]

One of the biggest fundamental flaws with statism is that it assumes regulatory entities will do what's best for society.

[Sevo]

Uh, oh! Ms. Postrel is not gonna invite Mr. Jillette to parties!

[PapayaSF]

I do think Jillette used unnecessarily inflammatory language. Talk about waving a red flag in front of a bull. It just gives Marcotte and co. an excuse to not address his core point.

[SusanM]

What core point? His criticism of someone else's criticism of something he didn't see himself? This is just yet another instance of a celeb milking SJW outrage for attention. Unless you really want to believe that Jillette (a 30-year show-biz vet) really didn't think it was possible that people would get pissed over something like this. I know I've said this before about similar things but I'm really getting tired of the "shock comic with the long career who's an innocent victim of the PC-thug SJW's" routine.

[PapayaSF]

Since she was trying for humor, I think it's OK to critique it as humor. I thought his core point was that was strained and unfunny, and I agree.

[SusanM]

Well, you're right about that.

But I'm not saying he can't have a critical opinion - even if it's an experienced profession critiquing an amateur. That's how the world goes. I just take umbrage when someone who trades in edgy humor starts complaining about people who are oversensitive. Again, if the world was free of those people Penn would be doing birthday parties in obscurity 😉

[Bill Dalasio]

Who the fuck is Lindy West?

[Hyperion]

When are we having Rand on the show? I mean if he's gonna be hardened off for a run at POTUS, it won't get much better than this.

[GILMORE]

Yeah, that!

[Hyperion]

Hasn't Amash already been on the show like twice, and Massie also, at least once? Rand needs to show some ballz here.

[GILMORE]

KISS THE RING, RAND

[GILMORE]

"and Basil Smikle (Democratic political strategist)"

No word yet on allegations of being an "all around 'good guy'"

[GILMORE]

Dear God =

let there be no further highlighting of that story about the silly actress who got stopped by a cop and ThEN THE WORLD ALMOST ENDED

thank you

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You covered that with the TMZ link. Did you listen to the audio?

[GILMORE]

much alcohol will be required to cleanse the memory from my brain.

It was horrible.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'm on it.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I don't give a fuck what the deal is, Neil.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Basil A. Smikle Jr.

Adjunct Professor; PhD student; sci-fi and comic book geek; lover of all things old skool

I regret that we meet in this way. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Bare arms.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ginger gang signs.

[Heroic Mulatto]

WHITE CHICKS AND GANG SIGNS

[Fist of Etiquette]

You want something droned right, drone it yourself.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

I don't know that we have any intelligence to spare at this point.

[BigT]

Katie 'painted face' Pavlich

[Fist of Etiquette]

This whole middle east discussion seems racist against towelheads.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh, Hitlary.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

You know who else. ...

Aw forget it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If you love China so much...

[Fist of Etiquette]

HEY MAN THERE'S A BEVERAGE HERE

[Fist of Etiquette]

Reduced to begging. Embarrassing.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You've got a real type of thing goin' down, gettin' down/There's a whole lot of rhythm goin' round

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 15 September 2014

Inchon-Edition

- Kennedy: I get slight 'Jackie O' overtones here, and in a good way (maybe its the 'midriff piping'). Previous Black items have failed to please, but this... thingy with the teal trim just pops. We always sing about 'contrasts', and the black base here does wonderful things for the blue hems and the magenta lipstick.

- Matt: Solid. No comment really; we note the collar-swallowing effect again, which we think has something do with how Matt hooks his earpiece through the back of his jacket. Or maybe he just needs to tug his jacket down after he sits. Or... he could be a sloucher. The world may never know.

- Kmele: We all love money, but Kmele tonight is 'money'. This is the kind of 'plaid' combo which we like the best. We tend to shy from 'too many colors', and like more-neutral pairings. This is one of the things I plan to bite from Kmele's style-menu.

- Basil: Nice tie. Needs more mozz, tomato, olive oil.

Komapsumnida

[Heroic Mulatto]

This is one of the things I plan to bite from Kmele's style-menu

Indeed. My first thought was "That outfit is dope. I'm gonna assemble it first chance I get.

[GILMORE]

"grey gingham"?

something like this i guess

[Heroic Mulatto]

I have that exact shirt (with one less inch on the sleeve) from BB in tan/cream-ish(?).

[GILMORE]

And this looks like the tie

[Heroic Mulatto]

Silk tweed....that's interesting. On the small screen it looked like it was made from type (weave?) of Thai silk, which can have that rough look.

[GILMORE]

You could always just use a sweatsock.

[Heroic Mulatto]

If I'm switching to wool, then I'll just have my wife whip me up a knit tie.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

So you want to teach your kid to beat people up.

Nice.

[GILMORE]

....

i didn't realize that football players were experts in 'family beatings'?

[Dances-with-Trolls]

It's so painful watching a scandal erupt in the sports world because I know I will be treated to an endless parade of former professional athletes pontificating brokenly about an issue they don't understand.

Could they at least vet these guys first? Maybe get one with some connection to the issue in question?

[GILMORE]

Exactly.

And do you think these former lineman are going to be psycho-sociologists who have a great perspective on why their peers tend to smack people up?

at best, get a former coach.

[Fist of Etiquette]

FEMALES??? I don't think you can use that term.

[GILMORE]

Wouldn't a better question be, "do you think a cut-block can be done legally" rather than "parse the differences between wife and child abuse"?

[Fist of Etiquette]

You call that a dance? That's not a dance. This is a dance.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Pulled a Biden.

[Trouser-Pod]

Kmele has such a soft spot for buffoons.

[BigT]

He IS on TI, after all.

[Fist of Etiquette]

She was just getting at his wallet.

[Fist of Etiquette]

They can't even stuff their bras with toilet paper.

[Fist of Etiquette]

They just wanted to turn all your laundry pink. For irony.

[GILMORE]

What's been stopping people from just buying a plain old "Kent State" shirt, and then *bleeding on it*?

Saves money.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Goddamn hipsters.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Straight-armed. Nice.

[GILMORE]

do we need 'split sidewalks'?

because people can't just look where they're going.

[OneOut]

Does this show actually live stream from the link given at the begining of the article or do you have to watch it on tv ?

When I click on the link I get taken to a page where it says The Independents Live Stream will begin soon. Some video come on for a while and the stops for a while.

It soesn't seem like it's actually live video though.

Any help ?

[Dances-with-Trolls]

http://www.baqiworld.com/2011/.....ness-live/

Here

[Fist of Etiquette]

That live stream is only for the aftershow, as far as I can tell. There are a few places people have found to live stream the actual show but I don't know where and quite frankly you could better spend your time masturbating.

[SIV]

Here

[Fist of Etiquette]

That's not an hour's worth.

[SIV]

The archive is huge.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I mean it's too sexy.

[OneOut]

Huba ! Huba !

[Heroic Mulatto]

Does your internet/cable package include Fox Biz? If not, I don't think you can get it that way.

[OneOut]

I haven't had cable in 10 years.

[Fist of Etiquette]

What the fuck is Kennedy on tonight?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I can save 100% by *not* going to that tourist trap in the Caribbean!

[GILMORE]

Matt is 100% right.

NYC used to be full of sidewalk ninjas, and could move superfast while gliding past one another.

Now its a minefield full of texting assholes.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I, for one, support sidewalk segregation.

[Fist of Etiquette]

THIS SHOULD BE A FRIDAY THEME SHOW. Not just a run-out-the-clock segment.

[GILMORE]

Asset Forfeiture? i agree.

Combine it with Eminent Domain and you have a whole episode.

Call it,
"Sticky-Fingered Government"

[Fist of Etiquette]

Uh, it's after Labor Day, Sullum. Put on a dark suit.

[GILMORE]

Sullum is overwhelmingly chipper

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah. Call it < i The Interrupters.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Evil.
Evil.
Evil.
Evil.
Evil.
Evil.
Evil.

/drinks

[Fist of Etiquette]

Then you're getting a colonoscopy.

[hamilton]

Goddamn guys if you want a former football player who wants to be a commentator and is vaguely libertarian why not go for Donte Stallworth? You get the bonus of getting a guy convicted of vehicular homicide and all that. So:
- Felon: check
- NFL: check
- talking head: Check
- Libertarian: mostly check

DOES THE COMMENTARIAT HAVE TO DO ALL THE GODDAMN WORK AROUND HERE???!!??

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ha. Bradshaw can't even show Super Bowl X highlights in his commercial.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Time for Keepin' It Bobblehead.

[GILMORE]

Terry Bradshaw used to mean "touchdown passes against the Dallas cowboys in the snow" to me

now he means, "an obnoxious old man who gets really bad rashes"

[Fist of Etiquette]

YOU CAN'T INTERRUPT KEEPIN' IT KMELE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Kennedy let the man fucking talk.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Don't wait for leaks, Welch. Make your own leaks.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ah. Not Lou Dobbs.

[GILMORE]

Crikey! its ....webster!?

[Dances-with-Trolls]

They are letting Kennedy onto the Mother Ship..?

[BigT]

A 26 nation coalition against ISIS. BS.

[Brian D]

The United States and 25 paid cheerleaders.

[Fist of Etiquette]

So if it's not our first time watching the aftershow we're not welcome?

[GILMORE]

Katie doesn't have a popular opinion and doesn't want to talk about it.

[GILMORE]

I take this back -

she makes the good point that "legalization" doesn't get the government out of the issue

[Fist of Etiquette]

Not having a strong opinion means she wants to legalize all drugs.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Crack is wack.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Here comes the liberal with the tolerance of social choices.

[Fist of Etiquette]

BETTER TO THROW THEM IN JAIL.

[GILMORE]

Its sort of interesting how 'crack' peaked, then declined to relative obscurity all on its own without any significant correlation with zealous prosecution or incarceration.

[GILMORE]

Meaning... despite all the prosecution and incarceration, it thrived... and then declined mostly on its own regardless.

i guess meth took a portion of the market - but not in the same places with the same people. 'inner city' crack died in a way that isn't easy to explain.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Ugh, crack is alive and well, the drug warriors have just moved onto other moral panics, as the crack one had gotten old and lost it's shock value.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Some Reddit irony for you.

Julian Assange is doing an AMA there talking about censorship on social media. Guy brings up #gamergate to him and is promptly banned.

[Fist of Etiquette]

With all the violence surrounding alcohol sales, how can you not believe that drug legalization continues the gangs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

EVERYONE I KNOW VOTED FOR CRACK ADDICTION.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Someone doesn't know what victimless crime means.

[Fist of Etiquette]

You're also paying for prisons.

[Fist of Etiquette]

THESE DIPSHITS DON'T EVEN REALIZE THEY'RE ARGUING FOR DECRIMINALIZATION.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Statism brings the peoples together.

[Fist of Etiquette]

No cut-off.

[xplorethings]

good article

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[Scruffy Nerfherder]

HM in 3,2,1...