Israel

Millennials Less Sympathetic to Israel Than Older Americans

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Israel Defense Forces

It's another destructive, deadly day in Gaza. Twenty-two days into the current iteration of this conflict, despite the fact that Israel and the U.S. are snapping at each other, Israel remains the sympathetic party in the eyes of many Americans. But millennials are drifting away from that norm.

The latest Pew Research Center poll, which was published yesterday, shows that Americans aged 18 to 29 are pretty divided. When asked about "Israel's response to the conflict with Hamas," 31 percent said it's been "about right." Nearly as many, 29 percent, said that it's "gone too far." Tellingly, only 7 percent of young Americans believe it has "not gone far enough."

By contrast, in the older age demographics (50-64 and 64+) 16 and 18 percent, respectively, believe that Israel's use of force hasn't gone far enough. Generation Xers are a bit closer to millennials' views in some respects; 34 percent say Israel's response has been about right, while 30 percent say it's over the top. But again, 16 percent believe Israel's military action should be more aggressive.

In fact, with the exception of self-described "liberal" Democrats, 44 percent of whom say the Jewish state has gone too far while only 7 percent say it's not enough, every other demographic polled – whether political independents or Republicans; college graduates or high school dropouts; blacks, whites, or Hispanics; men or women – have double digit support for Israel ramping up its campaign against Hamas.

Notably, general support for Israel in its grappling with Palestine has been eroding in the last few years, though a hawkish minority has grown: In January 2009, the percent of Americans willing to say that Israel's tactics are "about right" has dropped 15 percentage points from 50 to 35, while those who believe it should go further has nearly doubled from 7 percent to 15 percent.

Although it's outside of the scope of Pew's research at hand, it's worth noting that the numbers fit into a trend that Reason-Rupe's own polls have been shedding light on: Millennials are politically unclaimed, but see Democrats as the less bad option on some issues such as foreign policy.

Likewise, the drop in general support may reflect what Reason's Jesse Walker noted last week: the American public doesn't have much of a stomach for war

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  1. THANK YOU.
    This was what I was asking for days.

    1. Yes, finally, FINALLY, we know what millenials think about this.

      1. Millenials think? I thought they feelz

        1. Yes, we think.

  2. After marinating in the virulently anti-Israel/pro-Pali academy, this doesn’t surprise me at all.

    1. As a college student I bet most students never hear a professor express an opinion one way or the other about Israel. I sure have not (granted, I have not taken any courses about the Middle East).

      1. Contrary to the stereotype perpetuated by the grievance-addicted right, professors don’t spend all their time on a political soap box. Usually they’re just teaching the subject at hand. I can only assume the people with these stereotypes in mind didn’t go to university?

        1. Were you born a fat, slimy, scumbag puke piece o’ shit, or did you have to work on it?

          1. I am NOT fat.

            1. Are you quitting on me? Well, are you? Then quit, you slimy fucking walrus-looking piece of shit! Get the fuck off of my obstacle! Get the fuck down off of my obstacle! NOW! MOVE IT! Or I’m going to rip your balls off, so you cannot contaminate the rest of the world! I will motivate you, IF IT SHORT-DICKS EVERY CANNIBAL ON THE CONGO!

              1. I do love you and you know there is something very important we need to do as soon as possible.

                1. Sometimes that Derptard, he looks right into you. Right into your eyes. You know the thing about a Derptard, he’s got… lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll’s eye. When he comes at ya, doesn’t seem to be livin’.

                  1. Possibly the most versatile line ever.

                    +1 large scar

        2. People tend to see what they are looking for as well. There are liberals who watch MSNBC and think it is not liberal enough, or conservatives ditto for Fox. If you really want to pay concerted attention you might come across professor’s denouncing Israel in their classes, but that kind of thing is vastly overexagerrated on the right (much like how the left vastly exaggerates how conservative business culture’s are).

          1. Because obviously you have been to every school we all have – have any classes with Francis Boyle? Well he was polluting U of IL when I was there and he helped write the $&*@ing PLO Charter. That is just one example from one school – the History Department Chair was all but wrapped in the PLO Flag as he lectured on Middle Eastern history.

            Believe it or not, the academy, which is quite Left is not all that friendly to “The Zionist Entity”. Take a history class sometime and see what you get.

            1. “That is just one example from one school”

              Yes, yes it is.

              1. I guess none of these people teach, eh?

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A….._of_Israel

                1. What percent of college teachers do you think whatever list you have there represents?

            2. I have a friend who went to South Florida back in the late 80s, and it was pretty overrun with pro-Palestinian biases, at least in one department. Not sure I get how that happens in schools here, but there seem to be pockets of it. Kind of strange, really.

            3. I took Middle Eastern History from a proffessor who I think was a Lebonese Christian, so he didn’t have a pro-palestinian bias due to personal experience.

              1. We had a PhD exchange student from Lebanon stay with us – a Christian who ended up the Deputy Minister of the Interior – Ports and Roads or somesuch. PLO killed him 1983.

              2. “I took Middle Eastern History from a proffessor who I think was a Lebonese Christian, so he didn’t have a pro-palestinian bias due to personal experience.”

                I took the same class. Opposite experience.

          2. Though not about Israel, my Spanish professor, on a regular basis, would praise Castro and Chavez while denouncing capitalism.

            One day, I explained to him why I thought socialism wasn’t so great, using Thomas Sowell as a source. The professor responded: “He’s just an apologist for the capitalist system!”

            Mind you, this was a small, private college in a rural state.

            1. I certainly ran into more leftist opinions than conservative ones, my point was that all of them together were rather marginal. I guess maybe the loudest voices get the press.

              1. During my freshman year at the University of Denver, both my Russian language and my Russian history professors expressed rather pronounced biases in favor of Israel.

                The Russian language prof survived not one, but two, firing squads – first the Nazis, then the Soviets. He was a catholic Czech. I really liked the guy.

                The Russian history prof was a jewish Hungarian who had been incarcerated by the Nazis. He gave great lectures.

                However, I must stress that their pro-Israeli biases manifested themselves only once or twice for the entire academic year.

                On the other side, I had a visiting economics professor frequently criticize Israel during his class. What is bizarre is that the class was an intro with nearly 75 students whereas the Russian language and Russian history classed had about 8-9 students.

                1. How do you survive a firing squad?!?!

                  1. How do you survive a firing squad?!?!

                    Shot does not equal dead. If it was a mass-shooting incident, the possiblity of a survivor being overlooked goes up. There were a number of these on the eastern front.

                    1. Sorry, I should have added that he was given a reprieve by both the Nazis and the Soviets.

        3. *Contrary to the stereotype perpetuated by the grievance-addicted right, professors don’t spend all their time on a political soap box.*

          Wrong. I even had a Marxist library science professor assign Gramsci and “Orientalism” as reading…IN A F@CKING LIBRARY INTRO COURSE!

      2. I graduated about a decade ago, and I didn’t hear anything about it from my Islam class professors or my Middle Eastern politics professor. Of course I did hear about it from the Israeli politics professor, but he was implicitly biased the other direction.

      3. I would just like to point out that all the “Well, not every professor bashes Israel all the time in every class in every university everywhere” responses do not really negate my claim that millenials have marinated in an academic environment that is anti-Israel and pro-Pali.

        1. MegaloMonocle|7.29.14 @ 1:13PM|#
          “I would just like to point out that all the “Well, not every professor bashes Israel all the time in every class in every university everywhere” responses do not really negate my claim that millenials have marinated in an academic environment that is anti-Israel and pro-Pali.”

          Yep. Not every article regarding economic matters is written by Krugmann, either, but if you read the NYT, you are marinating in lefty twaddle.

      4. I took a History of the Middle East course with an exceptionally objective professor, he was careful not to reveal his bias. But most of the students were pro-Palestine going into the class. I think they might’ve left with more nuanced views however.

      5. I bet most students never hear a professor express an opinion one way or the other about Israel

        You don’t have to hear it from a professor. Just stand out in front of Student Union or read the student paper and you’ll get your fill of opinion about Israel.

        1. Most student papers write about pretty mundane stuff most of the time in my experience

    2. The ornate front gate to the academy says “Arbeit Macht Frei”.

    3. Actually that’s bullshit. Many college professors are Jewish. I took a ton of ply sci/middle eastern studies courses and I would say stances on Israel were 50/50.

      Thing is, you can assert Israel’s right to exist while condemning its government while not supporting Hamas. This is not really a contradictory opinion. Most on the internet (hasbara) will ONLY accept 100% blind support for Israel.

      Thing is, Hamas is bad but Israel has tanks, bombers, drones etc. This isn’t a “war”. Be real.

      1. Hamas is bad but Israel has tanks, bombers, drones etc.

        “Hamas is bad but Israel isn’t playing fair! Wah!”

        you can assert Israel’s right to exist while condemning its government while not supporting Hamas.

        “Hamas is so bad and how dare Israel defend itself!”

        1. dude, the current conflict started as a massive overreaction to a kidnapping/murder. While awful, I really reject the idea that it warranted a ground invasion. It’s not a matter of “playing fair”, you hasbara troll, I’m simply stating that the world’s 17th most powerful economy and one of the region’s most powerful militaries is going up against rag-tag gang bangers with fireworks. There is no “existential threat” to Israel, if you think so, you are deluded. None of my words relieve Hamas from their actions.

          1. The “current” conflict is a flare-up of an ongoing conflict of the last 50 years, because the Palis have no interest in living in peace with their neighbor.

            It’s the Palis that went up against a superior force, one that has showed remarkable restraint, and it is the Palis that are now paying the price for being stupid.

            None of my words relieve Hamas from their actions.

            Cool story, bro.

            1. 3 kidnapped, murdered kids. Can’t deny the truth bro.

              And as an aside, I truly don’t believe there will ever be a 2 state solution. Israel will be one state, absorbing Gaza and WB. Not tomorrow, but one day relatively soon.

              Neither Hamas nor Israel are honest negotiators in these talks, because I think both of them know the real outcome deep in their hearts.

              1. So, in your mind, the Israelis and the Palis were living side-by-side, harmoniously, peacefully, and cooperatively, until some unknown actors all of a sudden randomly kidnapped and murdered 3 kids.

                Well, when you put it like that, it sure is an over-reaction. Except that isn’t even close to reality.

                1. straw man, next.

                  1. I just don’t know how you can possibly come up with the idea that the current flare-up in a long standing and ongoing conflict is only the result of 3 kidnapped and murdered kids, unless you believe there has not been a long-standing and ongoing conflict. If that is the case, then yes an over-reaction. If it is not the case, and there were other factors taken into consideration, then not or something less than an overreaction.

              2. 3 kidnapped, murdered kids. Can’t deny the truth bro.

                Just ignore all the hundreds of rockets fired into Israel.

                1. I’m an American, it doesn’t affect me.

                  And no one ever said I don’t support Israel’s right to defense . Offense, perhaps I have a bit more problem with.

                  1. *I’m an American, it doesn’t affect me.*

                    You’re ignorant. It has and will continue to affect you. Been cavity searched before boarding an airplane lately? Been surveilled against your will and/or without your knowledge recently? Yeah, that’s because of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

                    1. no dummy I’m saying a criminal case in Israel has ZERO impact on my life in Texas.

                      And no, all the spying etc is WoT related, 9/11 related, and generally fascism related.

                2. Those rockets started back up in reaction to the aggressive response of Isreal to the teen murders as described by entropy

              3. I think you’re right. The question is how many Palestinians have to die before they all become Israel?

                It’s disgusting how the rest of the Arab world uses this conflict to fire up their bases while not really giving a shit about the lives lost in the conflict.

                1. unfortunately, I think a lot.

                  While the international community would not accept outright annexation, I think it will be a slow buildup and then de facto annexation. Some Palis will indeed prefer to live in a united Israeli state. I question how the current Israeli govt would actually include those populations, but in the end, I am not Israeli nor do I care to dictate their terms.

                  I simply think there is no govt above reproach, including those with legitimate historical nightmares.

                2. but you are 100% right, Arab countries don’t give 2 shits about Palestinians unless they are trying to deflect from conflict at home/against the US

            2. “Remarkable restraint.” Do they hand these lines out on index cards? I suppose that’s a subjective thing, apparently encompassing the deaths of more than 1,000 innocent people in this case. “We could have simply turned you into a parking lot.” Remarkable restraint!

              1. What you’ve just said… is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul…

              2. Where did you get that 1,000 number, Tony? From the Palis? Or did you go and count the bodies up yourself?

                And, yes, relative to historical examples, “remarkable restraint” applies, though I understand not to you since you don’t know jack shit about human history.

                1. Then the Palestinians have shown, what, a stunningly admirable amount of restraint?

                  Why is it never the case that they are allowed to defend themselves? They are the occupied people.

                  1. No, they are a liberated people. They should be thankful for Israeli liberation.

                    1. God you are a statist, teat-suckling piece of shit, you know that?

                    2. You don’t know what statism is, or much else.

                      They don’t occupy Gaza, they just control the borders and airspace and power supply and water supply and collect their taxes and rightly so.

                    3. “thank you master for ‘liberating’ me”

                      – Sudetenland
                      – Czechoslovakia
                      – Poland

                      Shall I continue? You can’t just claim “you don’t know statism” when I very deliberately claimed that you are a statist. You divert from the point, ignore my claim, because you know it to be true and embarrassing.

                    4. What, no Ukraine?

                    5. ha, there you go.

                      “Thank you Mr. Putin from liberating me!”

                      – Ukraine

                    6. I wan’t talking about Putin.

                    7. oh ok I thought you weren’t a fan of my WW2 references. Thought you wanted modern examples. Yes, Ukraine pre- 1989 fits into the ‘liberation’ mold nicely

                    8. I was referring to the Ukrainians greeting the Germans as liberators before they realized that hating the Russians as much as the Germans wasn’t going to be quite good enough to guarantee “liberation”.

                    9. Shall I continue?

                      No you should really just STFU before you further embarrass yourself.

                      You divert from the point, ignore my claim, because you know it to be true and embarrassing.

                      AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I am kicking your ass all over this thread. Your worthless ‘claims’ really don’t concern me much.

                    10. It appears your arrogance matches your blood lust Cyto

                    11. embarrass myself? On an internet comment section? Damn man, you are deranged lol.

                      And if by “kicking your ass” you mean “tearing the mask away to reveal that I’m a neocon commenting on a libertarian site and my essential argument is ‘fuck anyone who isn’t Jewish” ,

                      then yes, whew, my ass is kicked LOL

                    12. entropy_factor|7.29.14 @ 1:58PM|#

                      “thank you master for ‘liberating’ me”

                      – Sudetenland
                      – Czechoslovakia
                      – Poland

                      Shall I continue?

                      Hey, now the Jews are Nazis! Godwin, anyone?

                    13. my point wasn;t about “jews”, it was about statists claiming that offensive war and occupation is ‘liberation’, but nice little attempt there, son

                    14. WTF’s next argument: Anti Semite!!!!

                    15. Because entropy compared them to Nazis? Take a course in logic, Bo.

                    16. read above it. Wasn’t talking about Jews at all. I referenced Nazis because, they too, thought that invading places and forcefully occupying them was “liberating” them. THAT was my point. But I guess you don’t read too well.

                  2. Now tell me about the human shields.

                    1. The human shields do nothing, Israel blows right through them.

                  3. Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza, you fucking moron. And initiating violence by firing hundreds of rockets into another nation is not self defense, you dishonest little shit.

                    1. Neither is destroying Gaza’s infrastructure and killing mostly civilians.

                    2. They don’t occupy Gaza, they just control the borders and airspace and power supply and water supply and collect their taxes and…,

                    3. Why is that, Bo? Do you think they would do that if they could trust the Palistinians to let them live in peace? Do you think the Israelis are just being cruel because they like to be? I mean, we all know how wicked those Jews are, right Bo?

                    4. Your goal shifting is noted WTF

                    5. What goal shifting? I merely responded to one of your dishonest and pedantic points. Maybe you should learn the proper use of the term goal shifting.

                    6. You: Gazas not occupied

                      Me: yes they are, Israel controls their x y z

                      You: well they deserve it because they are bad!

                      Me: er, goal shift

                      You: Anti-Semite!!!!

                    7. Wrong, dipshit. Gaza is not in fact occupied. If there is any goal shifting it is being done by you, i.e. “occupied” becomes “borders with Israel sealed”. Look up definitions of “occupied” and “goal shifting”.
                      If you were nearly as smart as you think you are you would be pretty formidable.

                    8. “trust them to live in peace”

                      trust but verify, ahh the trope of fascists hahaha. While you may be right, forcefully controlling external territories is usually frowned upon, FYI

                    9. Dumbass, the Israelis locked down the borders in response to Pali attacks and suicide bombers. I guess they should just tolerate that, since it’s you have decided it’s not an existential threat. Why is it that people like you think that Israel is the only country in the world that should be required to tolerate such things?

                    10. ” Why is it that people like you think that Israel is the only country in the world that should be required to tolerate such things”

                      False dilemma with a race card zest, yummy!

                    11. Racist? You really are a dishonest idiot. What does race have to do with anything?

                    12. So you follow up your dishonesty and ignorance with playing a race card? Why am I not surprised

                    13. Jump up your own ass, fuckstain. You’re becoming worse than Tony with your dishonest arguments and false characterizations of other people’s statements.

              3. I can’t believe I’m on the same side as Tony. Surely this is a 1-time deal. We arrive to the same conclusion via different mechanisms, tho.

                1. Just goes to show how stupid you are.

                  1. ad hom, ur mad, next

              4. I suppose that’s a subjective thing, apparently encompassing the deaths of more than 1,000 innocent people in this case.

                Relevant counterpoint:

                Consider the media obsession with the body count. According to a daily tally in the New York Times, as of July 27 the war in Gaza had claimed 1,023 Palestinian lives as against 46 Israelis. How does the Times keep such an accurate count of Palestinian deaths? A footnote discloses “Palestinian death tallies are provided by the Palestinian Health Ministry and the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.”

                OK. So who runs the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza? Hamas does. As for the U.N., it gets its data mainly from two Palestinian agitprop NGOs, one of which, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, offers the remarkably precise statistic that, as of July 27, exactly 82% of deaths in Gaza have been civilians. Curiously, during the 2008-09 Gaza war, the center also reported an 82% civilian casualty rate.

                When minutely exact statistics are provided in chaotic circumstances, it suggests the statistics are garbage. When a news organization relies?without clarification?on data provided by a bureaucratic organ of a terrorist organization, there’s something wrong there, too.

                1. Of course it is as foolish to accept gaza government stats and claims as it is to do the same for Isreali ones

          2. entropy_factor|7.29.14 @ 1:21PM|#
            “dude, the current conflict started as a massive overreaction to a kidnapping/murder.”

            Yeah, they just should have told ’em to be nice.

            1. no, I think criminal investigations and police work should be done. When Israeli kids killed a Pali kid the following week, Israel investigated and locked up the criminal. Why can the first crime not be treated the same?

              1. One of these was the work of a terrorist organization, the other was not.

                1. Those Jewish settlers that burned that teen were of course nothing like terrorists

                  1. You’re an expert at missing the point.

                    1. I think you have to have a point for someone to miss it Cyto

                    2. translation “shit shit I can’t counter his argument” lol

                      U SO MAD

          3. the current conflict started as a massive overreaction to a kidnapping/murder.

            How the fuck was Israel’s West Bank sweep an over-reaction?

            There is no “existential threat” to Israel,

            So what? It’s still self-defense.

            Israel will be one state, absorbing Gaza and WB

            Right, that’s why Israel left Gaza back in 2006-all part of their devious plan which only you know about!

            Christ you’re a stupid asshole.

            1. “How the fuck was Israel’s West Bank sweep an over-reaction?”

              How was it not? They essentially invaded the entire area, tossing thousands of homes and imprisoning hundreds

              1. Oh boo hoo a bunch of Hamas operatives got arrested. Lets cry for them.

                1. Yes, only Hamas operatives got their homes tossed and were arrested. Your confidence in government knows no bounds, does it?

                  1. Israel is at war with Hamas. That is a part of war. The should get the PA to keep out Hamas if they don’t want this to happen.

                    1. Goal shifting

            2. Israel is the only country that can absorb Gaza and WB. They are the only country that is wealthy and compassionate enough. The settlements won’t stop in the WB and Gaza will bleed out in this fashion over and over.

              The Israeli youth might change the course of history as the age. , however.

            3. Like I said, Cyto, not tomorrow. I think the 20-50 year outlook definitely does not include a separate Pali state. No fucking way.

              Just because Israel lef Gaza in 06 because daddy USA told them to, doesn’t mean its permanent. “The old will die and the young will forget”. You act as if there is not a set plan for all of this.

              Personally, I think a unified state that removed the label “Jewish state” and didn’t keep a second class of citizens (Palis) could actually work. But current generations (including turds like you) are too hung up on avenging historical tit-for-tat and will not honestly work for solutions.

              1. You act as if there is not a set plan for all of this.

                And you act as if you have a fucking clue or any evidence for such a plan which I find hilarious.

                1. you are so mad haha

                  1. I think he’s mad, but in a different sense

          4. the current conflict started as a massive overreaction to a kidnapping/murder.

            And hundreds of Pali rockets fired at Israeli cities.

          5. The Taliban are equipped similarly to Hamas. I wouldn’t consider either to be “rag-tag gang bangers with fireworks”. You see, those 30 years-old rockets and bombs made with fertilizer and flashlight batteries will kill you just as dead as a tank will. Tank guns and laser-guided bombs can be aimed at specific threats. Rockets and IED’s are intended to inflict random death on anyone who happens to be near it when it detonates.

      2. This isn’t a “war”.

        You seem to suffer from the mis-impression that wars are only fought between roughly equal opponents.

        This is a war. Its just one that it was really stupid for the Palis to start.

        1. tanks vs civilians because someone kidnapped 3 kids. Seems like an overreaction (and collectivist motion) to punish the entirety of Gaza for it.

          1. Sure, but how about 8,000 rockets over the last 10 years?

            1. wah. You are talking 2.5 per day, including times of open warfare. While I don’t advise shooting rockets, Israel has a massive victim complex in portraying this as an existential threat. There is zero threat to the “erasure” or downfall of the Israeli state. Hasn’t been since the 70’s.

              1. So you are ok with 5 rockets every two days that indiscriminately target civilians? Got it.

                entropy_factor|7.29.14 @ 1:21PM|#
                None of my words relieve Hamas from their actions.

                Cool story, bro.

                1. Cool story, you petulant fuck.

                  I meant what I said- I do not support Hamas or it’s stated goals. But the mental gymnastics that you morons have to pull to avoid even one single speck of dirt being allowed to touch Israel’s reputation is hilarious to the objective observer.

                  Hamas is all sorts of fucked up, but your worship for the Israeli state (or any State, really) defies libertarianism and belief in the individual over the collective. It’s impressive, really. You really cannot imagine a world where someone does not approve of either group- kind of like people in the US not understanding how you could be anything other that R/D

                  1. Oh look, he’s telling us what libertarians are supposed to believe and accusing us of ‘mental gymnastics’ for not buying his retarded arguments. Are you sure you’re not Bo?

                    1. the state is your religion- I would argue pretty strongly that is exactly opposite to libertarianism. Perhaps you are more (neo)conservative?

                    2. And he doesn’t know what a neoconservative is and he can’t argue his point. It’s Bo.

                    3. I don’t? Funny, I grew up around them and went to war because of them lol jeez I must just be a mouth breathing yokel herp derp

                    4. Yes, he’s a neocon. One of the first times I ever visited here I marveled at his bloodthirsty defense of our drone strikes

                    5. Now Bo is talking to himself.

                  2. You’ll have to point out to me where I stated Israel is blameless. Or, for that matter, where I worship it as a state.

                    Go ahead, I’ll wait.

              2. And they aim to keep it that way. Is that what you object to?

              3. Try this, set off a string of firecrackers at your local shopping mall and see how tolerant your own government is of the occasional explosion.

                1. Will they shell my entire neiborhood?

                  1. If it meant killing you Bo, they should.

                    1. I think everyone’s aware of your blood thirst Cyto

                  2. Only if you do it in Boston.

      3. Hamas is bad but Israel has tanks, bombers, drones…This isn’t a “war”

        Just because it is asymmetrical doesn’t not make it war.

        By your definition, the Vietnam War wasn’t a war either.

        1. NVA had air power etc. It was an organized, and well-supplied (by Russians and Chinese) army.

          But yes, you could make the argument that a lot of the US’ actions in Vietnam (also Iraq) was not “war” per se, more so occupation .

          1. The US had clear air superiority as well as superiority in armored vehicles, transport, and infantry capability.

            Asymmetrical.

            1. superiority is not my claim. Palis can’t even repair potholes and Israel has US equipment and nukes. BE FUCKING REAL. There is no challenge- it’s mass punishment.

              1. Oh boo hoo. Those poor Palis just wanted to kill random Jews with their cute little bombs. Why won’t Israel play nice like the genocidal Palis?

              2. Maybe if the Palis spent their ‘aid’ money on infrastructure instead of rockets and tunnels they could repair their fucking potholes and make better lives for their citizens. But let’s keep blaming Israel for refusing to lie down and accept Palistinian attacks without responding to try to stop the ongoing threat.

                1. building materials are not permitted due to blockade.

                  1. Somehow building materials for tunnels and rockets make it through, though.

      4. This isn’t a “war”. Be real.

        You’re absolutely right. 90% of the countries in the world in Israel’s position would almost certainly have launched a real war and wiped out the Palestinians by now.

        1. meh, maybe. This is a massive overreraction, and doesn’t help Israel’s image. Certainly I believe they should defend themselves, but this excursion into Gaza is as much about defense as Iraq was for the US.

          And don’t forget the intial cause of this latest round- a kidnapping/murder. A criminal act, not a terroristic one or land invasion.

          1. this excursion into Gaza is as much about defense as Iraq was for the US.

            Because Iraq was firing thousands of rockets into US cities and murdering and terrorizing US civilians? You really are dishonest, aren’t you?

            1. He’s retarded. He thinks a military response to attacks by a terrorist organization is an ‘over-reaction’. He also seriously thinks Israel’s image matters.

            2. Who’s being dishonest, or ignorant? The rocket attacks only started back up when the IDF started ‘rolling’ dozens of Pali neighborhoods

              1. The rocket attacks only started back up when the IDF started ‘rolling’ dozens of Pali neighborhoods

                Oh, fer fuck’s sake. They’ve been constant for years.

            3. my point is, a “defense” of Israel doesn’t really include invading external territory. That whole “preventative warfare” doctrine is not defense in the slightest. Truly Orwellian use of language.

              Israeli defense like Iron Dome, border security, internal security- THAT is defense.

              1. my point is, a “defense” of Israel doesn’t really include invading external territory. That whole “preventative warfare” doctrine is not defense in the slightest.

                Yes it does and yes it is. You’re just arguing by dipshit assertion.

                1. lol look up ‘defense’ and ‘offense’ and report back, Dick Cheney

                  1. So by your retarded definition, the US had no right to offensive attacks against Japan after Pearl Harbor, because only defense is allowed and that doesn’t include attacks against external territory.

                    Derp derp de derpity DERP!

                    1. actually, Japs physically invade parts of the US. So yes, we had cause.

                      I do not think, however, that our continued occupation of Japan is justified. Neither do they.

                    2. actually, Japs physically invade parts of the US. So yes, we had cause.

                      I think your position is that we had cause to kick them out of those Alaskan islands, but “a defense of [America] doesn’t really include invading external territory.”

                    3. probably true, if Alaska was the only US possession that was affected. Go read up a bit bud. And no, occupation is not going to be classified as ‘defense’. It’s jut not.

                      It’s offense. It’s ok if that’s what you wanna do, but the word is offense, not defense. Otherwise, everything possible is offense. The word loses meaning, and we go about bombing every country in the world because “TEH DEFENZE”

              2. my point is, a “defense” of Israel doesn’t really include invading external territory.

                My vote for stupidest post of the day.

                By this reasoning, no country that is ever attacked from foreign soil should ever cross the border. When the Allies hit the borders of Germany in 1945, I guess they should have just all gone home, right?

                1. strawman, next

            4. Don’t forget the Iraqi tunnels into Florida.

    4. I went to a pretty heavily Jewish school, so you got a lot on both sides.

      I think that the pro-palestinian stuff probably has more to do with Marxist bullshit than anything to do with the Joos or the actual politics of the situation. The Palistinians are the downtrodden poor people and Israel is relatively rich and capitalisty, so they must be the evil oppressors.
      I think they are both fucked.

  3. Millenials havn’t lived with the Palestinians bullshit for as long.

    I remember when they were bombing busses full of school children.

    1. I remember when the Israelis were bombing cities full of children.

      1. Yeah, today and yesterday.

        Of course, the Gazans are busy doing the same, just far less effectively.

      2. Carpet bombed just like the Russian Air Force at Grozny, eh?

        Your keffiyeh is slipping.

        1. Your keffiyeh is slipping.

          +1 head covering

      3. The US Government has all the high scores for Child murder.

        Bush and The Exalted One.

        1. I would like to see what millennial’s think about our own practices in fighting our ‘war on terror.’

          1. Most of them wouldn’t be able to find such countries on a global map.

            1. Just like their parents and grandparents.

              1. I don’t disagree there.

        2. Firebombing Tokyo, Dresden and Hamburg, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki…. Yeah, Bush and the Exalted One were a pair of bastards.

          1. Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry…

            You know who….ah, forget it.

          2. The Bushes were on the other side of that one, I believe.

            1. BOOOOOSH!!!11!!!!

            2. Trying to torpedo Imperial Japanese Navy ships from an airplane, right?

              1. Don’t waste your time, ‘Tony’ doesn’t deal in reality.

              2. In Prescott’s defense, his ties to the Nazis were purely commercial.

                1. Unlike the Kennedys.

        3. Bush and The Exalted One are Curtis Lemay? Good to know.

      4. Since a city is, you know, a MUCH larger target, the intention to kill children is a lot less clear than bombing a school bus.

      5. I remember when critics of Israel were retards. Because they always are.

        1. I know Cytotoxic, for you any criticism of Israel is retarded (and, of course, anti-Semitism!).

          1. Just 99% of criticism of Israel is retarded and peculiarly those people do not have the same passion regarding governments that actually do the horrible things they accuse Israel of doing ex Syria.

            1. 99% only?

              Anti-Semite!!!

            2. I’m not saying anything about the validity of criticisms of Israel, but I think it is understandable for people to be more upset about the actions of a country that their own government massively supports than about those of a country who is near the top of the enemies list.

      6. I remember when the Israelis were bombing cities full of children.

        Well I remember when TEH GHEYS were bombing PLANETS full of children. /hyperbole train

        1. I first read that as TEH GREYS…

          /Art Bell

  4. I have a confession: as Wolf Blitzer was crawling around some tunnels the other day on tv to demonstrate that Hamas misappropriates their humanitarian aid, I secretly wished he would have a heart attack and die.

    1. That was not very nice…or were you hoping for a spike in CNN ratings as they replayed it, 372 times?

    2. What would have been better is if he had nearly died. Had a heart attack and had no heartbeat for a few minutes and then they revived him. (like Keiffer in “Flatliners”)

      That way, intrepid reporter that he is, he could have asked some of the Malaysian flight 370 passengers where the plane went as he waited in line to get into hell.

      1. CNN isn’t Hell?

        1. Competing for the honor with SportsCenter.

      2. I LOL’d

    3. Heart attack? No no no…how about an exploding mortar tube while he and his Pali handlers demonstrate that they ARE MOST CERTAINLY NOT storing and firing arms from schools, hospitals, etc.

      1. Are you seriously calling an AIPACer a Pali sympathizer?

  5. “Zenon, Writer For The Twenty-First Century.”

    1. Hey.

    2. This story was like a Zenon Bomb dropped on the unsuspecting commentariat.

      1. I take no prisoners. You people are incorrigible.

        1. Change the Z to an X and you’d be a gas, man, a real gas.

          1. But then he’d be intert, and we wouldn’t get anything out of him.

            1. *inert.

              Blarg, no edit options.

            2. Little known but true chemical fact: Xenon will get you high.

              1. I will, too.

          2. That’s just silly. Can’t we try to keep this place at least moderately,intellectual?

    3. Is that like Dippin’ Dots – The Ice Cream of the Future?

      1. …for the last 20 freakin years.

        *a favorite meme

        1. Well, the future will never be today.

  6. Not giving a shit about the Israel/Palestine bullshit is the best thing anyone, including “millenials”, could do. And not engaging in generational collectivism too.

    1. “And not engaging in generational collectivism too.”

      B..b..but POLLZ!

      1. Millennial Front. Millennial Front. It’s a put on!

        1. That’s from Dr. Who, right?

          1. What the fuck is a “Dr. Who”?

            1. It’s some time-traveling English rock band that has been on the BBC for many decades.

              1. Oh, so,it’s a documentary about dunphy then?

                1. Seriously, as I recently said to BP, Dr. Who is like if we’d made Captain Kangaroo into a science fiction series that never fucking went away, except not as good.

        2. Is it the Millenial People’s Front, or the People’s Front of Millenials?

          1. They’re both splitters.

    2. And not engaging in generational collectivism too.

      You want to stop the one tradition left in America.

      1. What’s even better is actually understanding the meaning of the word ‘collectivism’ and not looking like a git by misusing it habitually.

    3. Agreed, but as much as I’d like aid cut off from both peoples, I still am 100% Team Jew.

      It’s sometimes a difficult position to explain.

      1. As a fellow booster of that team, I prefer to think of it this way – forgoing American money will allow Israel the freedom to kill as many of the motherfuckers as they deem fit, unencumbered by American busybodies lecturing them about “proportionate responses”.

        1. +1 gloves off

      2. Easy – Ask what would happen to a failed foreign state that fired thousands of rockets into American cities.

        The American public would cheer while the rubble bounced.

    4. that’s all the I/P conflict is, one massive collectivist shit sandwich. I feel for the Israelis who get a few rockets here and there. I also feel for the Pali kids who are not members of Hamas and live in an open-air prison.

      I think the rash generalizations of both sides make it impossible to discuss. Objective observers can understand Israel’s need for defense, but can also think that it is not morally permissible for Israel to bomb the shit out of civilians. It’s not moral equivalency, I just think if people are honest with themselves, there’s a LOT of wrongdoing, on both sides, to highlight.

      But I guess I’m just a mean-old anti-Semite.

      1. well, shit, who is it that intentionally puts weapons in schools and hospitals and such? Who forbids civilians from taking their kids and getting the fuck out of there when the IDF notifies them that there will be an attack forthcoming?

        Martyr production is job 1 for Hamas. Israel isn’t pristine because no nation ever is, but they’re a helluva lot less evil than Hamas. If the Arabs are tired of being bombed by Israel, they might want to start killing the Hamas motherfuckers in their midst.

        1. One has to love a bunch of libertarians who so dutifully repeat government agency talking points (I guess when that agency is the IDF it’s totally ok!)!

          1. Unable to argue his point, Bo resorts to chiding libertarians for petty and fictional departures from Bo’s One True Libertarian Path.

          2. So your argument is what? That the IDF doesn’t actually issue warnings?

            1. And I assume he has proof of his other assertions as well.

              1. HAHAHAHAH Good one!

        2. “if the damn Palis would just leave so we can bomb their house, we wouldn’t have to kill them!”

          step back, take a walk, come back, and look at your statement. Is this rational/ Is this reasonable? Is it civilized?

          You are on a libertarian website and are literally calling for people to obey the state or they will be killed. Priceless.

          1. Libertarian analysis is rather silly when applied to a state of war. Maybe you have figured out a war to transform the Arabs by reading Hayek to them, but I don’t see that as an effective strategy.

      2. ” open-air prison.”

        Is there any Pali-pologist BS talking point you won’t repeat?

        1. That’s a good thing to examine in greater detail though – an “open air prison” would have to be enforced by all countries sharing a border with Gaza, right? So why isn’t anyone shrieking about Egypt’s role in keeping the Palestinian Arabs in their “open air prison”?

          1. Any ‘prison’ doesn’t let the people in it do what they want inside the prison.

            1. because nothing illegal ever goes on in prisons…

          2. So why isn’t anyone shrieking about Egypt’s role in keeping the Palestinian Arabs in their “open air prison”?

            Someone is.

          3. Oh, I blame Egypt probably the most for Gaza’s situation. They should have absorbed it years ago but Israel isn’t real fond of that idea either. And like I said above, Arabs don’t give a shit about Palestinians unless they are useful to distract from political crises at home.

            1. I think Egypt’s view is: “We have enough fanatics on welfare already, so why would we want more?”

      3. I think the rash generalizations of both sides make it impossible to discuss.

        Moral equivalency, I see. Which is the recipe for doing nothing and preserving the status quo.

        1. not really. Never said it was equivalent, I said that both sides bear some guilt. Is that so impossible to imagine?

          1. Some? Sure, but in the grand scheme of things the scales are tipped pretty strongly on Hamas’ side.

            1. see? I never said they weren’t! I committed the horrific sin of suggesting that Israel is not 100% innocent. I must be a dirty anti-Semite/

      4. Maybe you’re just ridiculous. Hamas puts people as body armor for their weapons; these people get killed as Israel is trying to defend themselves from the missiles being fired; and the Commie media blames Israel for knocking out those weapons and the human body armor used to defend them. It is the fault of the Muslims for putting their weapons amongst masses of civilians and they do this so they can whine to the press and weak minded people such as yourself.

        The operative principle is reminiscent of that old joke of the kid who kills his parents and then asks for sympathy because he is now an orphan. Hamas kills its citizens by using them as body armor (a war crime) and asks for sympathy because their human body armor is killed The press falls for this nonsense because they are practically Commies. With you, I haven’t read enough of you (thank god), so I won’t yet speculate.

        “There’s no need to fear. Underzog is here.”

    5. I am more and more thinking that not giving a shit about most things that don’t have any direct bearing on their lives is the best thing for everyone to do. I just need to get better at it myself now.

  7. The US will be in rather a quandary when Israel and NATO-member *Turkey* get into a shooting war.

    1. We can buy that off forever.

    2. I’d like to make a propositional bet… $10 on the IDF and “Greece grabs some disputed islands while Turkey is busy”

      1. Why not go for the trifecta?

        $10 prop bet: IDF wins, Greece gets a few islands and the Kurds take a chunk of land the size of New England.

        Pays 8 to 1.

        1. Oooh, maybe I will drop $20 on the Kurds TW.

      2. I say Greece gets nothing. They lost most of Cyprus when they weren’t broke.

        1. But if they took Cyprus back they could sell it to Goldman Sachs and cover some of thier outstanding debt?

      3. “Never make a propositional bet unless you know the outcome”, Amarillo Slim.

        1. Actually I never bet on anything with two legs or more.

          1. Nordberg: You know a lot about boxing, Frank!

            Drebin: Well, I know this much – never bet on the white guy.

      4. Maybe the Greeks would take back Smyrna.

    3. Nah. See, back in the Iraq war days, Turkey gave us their “Hey, its your fight, buddy, don’t involve us” card to block the northern invasion and (unintended consequence!) give the Baathists time to set up an insurgency.

      We still have it, I’m sure.

  8. Sympathy is nothing more than a word in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

  9. It is no coincidence that Millenials are shallower and dumber and less informed that older generations.

  10. Years of propaganda have taken their toll. Yes, it comes in part from universities, not necessarily from the professors in classrooms, but from student activists. In the last 50 years, the left has gone from somewhat pro-Israel to very anti-Israel, if not outright anti-Semetic.

    Partly it’s a narrow view of history. The younger people are, the fewer accounts of Palestinian atrocities they’ve seen. Millennials don’t remember PLO hijackings, Arafat, the Munich Massacre, etc.

    1. Millenniels are thanks to public schools generally completely ignorant of history. If you don’t know anything about the history of the area, and trust me they as a group don’t, you are not going to have any sympathy for Israel. They are generation retard.

      1. I still really want to believe that apathy and consequent non-response bias makes my generation look worse than it is.

        It is no coincidence that those who know the most about the conflict side with Israel (I saw it in a poll).

        1. When I first talked to one of my friends (a couple of years younger than me) about the conflict I was shocked to learn she had never heard about the Jewish land purchase. She apparently just assumed that Israel took it all by force. She’s not dumb either. I think it’s that lies are so readily available that you really have to be a skeptic to want to dig deeper.

          1. Money is force but not speech. Or is money speech and force? Speech but not force? Either way, it wasn’t fair!

    2. Israel is guilty of decades of war crimes and the only reason they are protected from consequences is because the US has an alliance with them, with Yahweh as the middleman. The entire rest of the world recognizing them as an occupying force stealing resources and indiscriminately killing civilians is not a case of global antisemitism.

      1. Lies.

        1. Of course, it’s really all he has.

      2. Citation required

      3. “The entire rest of the world recognizing them as an occupying force stealing resources”

        Sand is not a resource worth stealing, I don’t care how much glass you intend to make.

      4. Yeah Tony, lobbing rockets into populated areas for the purpose of killing civilians is not a war crime.

        Thanks for reminding everyone that you are so profoundly hateful and ignorant you honestly think something is only a war crime if the other side does it. We also shouldn’t forget that you are a racist who thinks the Palestinians are such sub humans that we can’t hold them to any standard of behavior. You really are a ball of ignorance, hatred and prejudice.

        1. Please John, not today. I have a headache.

          1. That’s what happens when you’re so open minded that your brain falls out of your head. You should put it back in instead of using it as a soccer ball.

          2. You are that stupid and racist Tony. You do know everyone on here laughs at you?

            1. You do know everyone on here laughs at you?

              The sad thing is that he’s so stupid that he thinks he’s clever. Seriously. I’ve known people like that over the years. Retarded leftists who thought they were clever because clever people watch Maddow and The Daily Show, so because they watch those shows then they must be clever too. Morons.

              1. Nothing is as sad as seeing John and sarc talk to each other about cleverness.

                1. The shit I took today was more clever than you, Tony.

                  1. Well, that’s a pretty low bar, sarc.

        2. I think it’s a religious thing. You see, Tony worships government, but the Joos and conservatards worship some other higher power other than government. To Tony that is heresy. Conservatards and Joos are blasphemers against his god Government. So he hates them and wants to watch them all die.

          1. That’s part of it, but what accounts for Tony and other leftists taking the side of Hamas, Islamist nutcases who would kill Tony and his ilk in an instant if they had the chance? Partly it’s some sort of “rooting for the underdog” thing, and partly it’s a hatred of Western civilization.

            1. They’re childishly rebelling against their Christian parents and grandparents.

              1. “Childish rebelling” does describe most of the left.

      5. Fascinating, fascinating. Now tell us about the Khazars and if you really want to hit the hat trick of slobbering anti-Jewry, do a favorable review of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

      6. stealing resources

        What resources? Their economy is mostly agriculture and high tech. None of which existed until they built desalination plants and their own little silicone valley. If they were to leave, the economy they have built would leave with them.

        As usual you are either dishonest or blissfully ignorant. Or just stupid. Yeah, I’ll go with stupid.

        1. Nearly 100% of the resources from quarries in the West Bank are going to Israel, going against international law for the treatment of resources in occupied territories. Palestinians have a water shortage crisis, and the Israelis just blew up Gaza’s only power plant.

          1. Sometimes at night I lie in bed and dream of being in my ancestral homeland 75 years ago, helping my great friend George Soros throw our relatives into the gas chambers.

          2. Are the Palis being paid for those resources?

            Talk about index card talking points – do you get yours from the Palis twitter account?

            1. He’s probably regurgitating this.

              You can tell how honest and unbiased it is just by the first sentence: “Ethnic cleansing is official Israeli policy.”

              Yep. Totally honest and unbiased. Totally.

              1. If that’s their policy, they sure are spectacularly incompetent in carrying it out. So incompetent that you’d suspect they were the ones saddled with Obama, not us.

        2. their own little silicone valley.

          Is,that where all,the big-tittied Jewish women live?

          1. The Joo that I dated had all-natural bigguns.

        3. I must give Sarc credit that is an excellent point. ‘Silicone Valley’ made me laugh.

          1. Silicon Wadi

            Silicon Wadi[1] (Hebrew: ??????? ?????, lit: “Silicon Valley”) is an area with a high concentration of high-tech industries[2] in the coastal plain in Israel, similar to Silicon Valley in California, in the United States. Silicon Wadi is considered second in importance only to its Californian counterpart.[3][4] The area covers much of the country, although especially high concentrations of hi-tech industry can be found in the area around Tel Aviv including small clusters around the cities of Ra’anana, Petah Tikva, Herzliya, Netanya, the academic city of Rehovot and its neighbour Rishon Le Zion. In addition, hi-tech clusters can be found in Haifa and Caesarea. More recent hi-tech establishments have been raised in Jerusalem, and in towns such as Yokneam Illit and Israel’s first “private city,” Airport City, near Tel Aviv.

            1. Israel is getting more and more free market. No wonder the left wants them all exterminated.

          2. I pulled a John. Whoops.

      7. Let’s see Epi come up with better comedy than that!

    3. “The younger people are, the fewer accounts of Palestinian atrocities they’ve seen. Millennials don’t remember PLO hijackings, Arafat, the Munich Massacre, etc.”

      Yeah, if you can choose where to start the tape, you can pretty much prove anything you want.

      1. PLO hijackings, Arafat, the Munich Massacre

        What!? As a millennial all I know is that the Palestinians in Gaza are being starved to death due to a concentration-camp-esque embargo. The Gaza strip is walled off like a less sexy Escape from LA. Everytime the democratically-elected Hamas part shoots fireworks into the sky Israel comes in and rains death on them. And yet the United States just wants to enable the Israeli genocide of Gaza.

        I think that’s about right.

      2. Start the tape further back:

        The millenials don’t remember the Yom Kippur War.
        The millenials don’t remember June 1967.
        The millenials don’t remember 1948, when the entire Arab world declared war on a country founded by people who were still wearing striped pyjamas.
        The millenials don’t remember the Arabs siding with Hitler.

        On and on and on. It’s too bad the only history millenials are taught is “western culture=bad”.

  11. Also, I was listening to PBS the other day where they mentioned that the reason for this being that millenials are much more likely to get their news from “social media”.

    Boy, does that explain a lot ….

    I guess if I got all my news from ClickHole, I would be equally retarded.

    1. And John Stewart, which is worse and not just because ClickHole is actually kind of funny whereas Stewart is not.

      1. Sorry I meant that ClickHole is a stand in for the sort of sites thet ClickHole parodies, which is what millenials read to get their news.

        I.e. BuzzFeed, Gawker.

        1. I think depressing numbers of people get their news from their Facebook wall. Cripes, the level of leftist political idiocy I see on mine is remarkable.

    2. Why is that putting “social” in front of any term turns it to shit?

    3. Well I get my news from here and I’m retarded?

  12. I’m not gonna say Israel smells like roses all the time, but compare her to her enemies and she looks pretty good.

    Imagine if, sometime within, oh, the past *half century,* the anti-Israel people had come forward and said, “look, we’re not going to agree on everything, let’s just patch up a peace deal that works, and which both sides can live with.” Israel would have been like, “sure!”

    IOW, less “drive the Jews into the sea,” more “two ethnically-based states.” Not perfect from the purist viewpoint, but that’s the thing about international agreements, they’re not perfect. And they’re certainly better than one side subjugating the other.

  13. Aren’t something like 50% of the commenters here Millenials? Quit acting like you’re not and start hating Israel!

    1. -1 Old Man with Candy
      -1 Old Mexican

      1. My bathrobe is older than most millenials. Smarter too.

        1. Also, your bathrobe has a job.

          1. Hey Ernie, you got a job!

    2. I’m a Millenial and I never think I’m especially well-informed or intelligent until I talk with my peers about history or politics.

      1. Sadly this. I was participating in a quiz night at a bar a couple of years ago and my team, the same people who could identify celebrities that I’d never heard of just by looking at a close up of their lips, couldn’t decide on how many U.S. Senators there were. Out of all of their guesses, not a single one was the correct answer. There were approximately 10 people on my team. I just sank into another beer and sat the rest of the tournament out.

        1. That’s hilarious and sad.

  14. I’m really glad that the ‘Likud’ faction of the H&R commentariat has become more dominant in the past several years. We won the debate, not the forum is ours.

  15. Have the FAA strand Kerry somewhere over the Mediterranean, and make damn sure that we don’t send Israel any aid to pay for Iron Dome spare parts. Basically, let the actual participants sort it out.

  16. As has often been said…..Israel could erase Gaza from the face of the earth tomorrow if they so desired, yet they don’t. Care to speculate what Hamas would do were the tables turned?

    And that’s why I side with Israel against the barbarians of Gaza.

    1. Such remarkable restraint! Another 1,000 dead civilians and we should probably shortlist Bibi for the Nobel Peace Prize.

      After all, it is entirely appropriate to judge such things based on hypothetical scenarios about what poor, hungry radical Muslim militants would do if they had billions of US dollars too.

      Barbarism is a symptom of poverty and oppression. Treating entire peoples as barbarians whose lives are worth less than those of the powerful is the precise attitude that got a bunch of Jews killed in Europe. Irony!

      People side with Israel because in this deity pissing match they think Yahweh shoots farther than Allah (whose complexion is also a bit swarthy–automatic barbarian points, you know).

      1. 1,000 dead civilians

        More lies-not that I care how many Israel has to slaughter to get peace.

        Barbarism is a symptom of poverty and oppression.

        Way to reverse cause and causation.

        1. Way to reverse cause and causation.

          Considering Tony honestly feels that not taking is giving, and not giving is taking, it’s no surprise he gets something like that wrong as well. And he’ll never get it right. Ever. Because he’s just that stupid. It’s kinda sad. Well, not really. It would be sad if he had potential to waste, but alas he does not.

        2. Are you suggesting that there is something inherent in the nature of Arab Muslims that makes them tend to be barbarians? Shall we use the same broad brush when treating Jews?

          1. Maybe not in their nature….

            But in 60 years, they have never budged on Israel’s right to exist. They want israel gone, and they are willing to see generations of their own children killed to acheive that.

            1. What the Israeli right (like the US right) fails to understand is that you don’t create the conditions for a moderate government by bombing the territory in question repeatedly. If some outside force continued to kill your neighbors and children, would that persuade you to moderate your position with respect to that force? Or might you just want to fuck them up as much as you possibly can?

              1. Maybe if the Palestinians stopped launching rockets at Israel, Israel might stop bombing them. Just a thought.

              2. That explains why Germany and Japan, countries that REALLY were bombed into oblivion, turned into failed states brimming with bloodthirsty, murderous terrorist groups in the decades following WWII.

                Huh? Oh, that didn’t happen? My bad.

                1. Huh? Oh, that didn’t happen? My bad.

                  Culture can only be blamed when it involves the Bible and guns. Muslim culture cannot be blamed. That would be intolerant.

                2. I am all for massive funding and aid to Palestinians to directly implement a modern civilization there as we did in Germany and Japan. Seems to be the only way out.

                  1. I am all for massive funding and aid to Palestinians to directly implement a modern civilization…

                    Ah, so mister distinction-challenged doesn’t know the distinction between culture and civilization. What a surprise.

                  2. I am all for massive funding and aid to Palestinians to directly implement a modern civilization there as we did in Germany and Japan. Seems to be the only way out.

                    Civilization is more than money, Tony. Germany and Japan would not be what they are today if we had simply given money to Nazis and Imperial Japanese militarists. Until the Palestinians are led by someone other than terrorists like the PLO and Hamas, aid is counterproductive.

                    1. We didn’t just give money. We oversaw massive and complex plans to rebuild their economies and turn them into modern democratic, capitalist countries. You’re making my point. Just leaving Germany to itself without offering such aid after WWI is what led to the radicalism of the Nazis and WWII.

                      I suggest that such a plan might work for radical Arab Muslims, but perhaps they really are a different sort of people than those who gave the world the fucking Nazis and can be thought of as a single collective best dealt with by collective punishment. Just because it’s never worked before and is universally regarded as a war crime doesn’t mean it won’t work this time, eventually.

                    2. You’ve got the straw man on the ropes! Give it a left! Give it another! Go Tony, you’re kicking its ass!

                    3. ermany and Japan would not be what they are today if we had simply given money to Nazis and Imperial Japanese militarists. Until the Palestinians are led by someone other than terrorists like the PLO and Hamas, aid is counterproductive.

                      This. It took bombing both countries into unconditional surrender, and then a years-long military occupation, followed by constitutions that expressly forbid military aggression.

                  3. *I am all for massive funding and aid to Palestinians to directly implement a modern civilization there as we did in Germany and Japan. *

                    I agree–but only after several Arab cities are incinerated via HE, incendiaries and/or atomic weapons.

                    I mean, you need to follow the recipe *exactly*.

                    1. How about this idea, Tony: Israel withdraws from Gaza, leaving vast numbers of greenhouses that produce vegetables and fruit and flowers for export, so that the Palestinians can produce something besides rockets and terror tunnels.

                      Oh, wait, they already did that, and the Palestinians destroyed the greenhouses.

                    2. Well maybe bombing them into submission will work some day. Or maybe a good stern talking-to. Whatever the fuck it is you’re advocating.

                    3. I advocate defending democracy and destroying terrorists and other supporters of totalitarian ideologies. That’s what Israel is doing now.

      2. Tony, I’m an atheist. I don’t care which imaginary beings dick is bigger.

        I care that for my entire life the Palestinians have engaged in deliberate war crimes such as suicide bombings against school children. Yet, that gets excused because “they’re desparate”. While any time a Palestinian kid accidentally gets killed in the crossfire, Israel is always to blame, even if Hamas was using the kid as a human sheild.

        I’m not saying Israel is blameless, but the Palestinians have destroyed any moral claim they ever had by repeatedly intentionally engaging in atrocities.

        1. What is the moral premise here? That killing children is bad? Okay… So who’s killed more children?

          1. Hamas has killed more children. They intentionally kill Jewish children, and then they use their own children as human shields. It’s a basic principle of the law of war that a combatant who hides among civilians is responsible for any civilian casualties.

            1. Christ on a stick. I am aware of the index card talking points. You can’t really avoid them.

              I get it. Hamas is responsible for bombing Israel and for Israel bombing Gaza. Like the wife you beat bloody totally had it coming for being a bitch.

              Hiding among civilians… sheesh. Do you know how small and densely populated Gaza is?

              1. Hamas is responsible for bombing Israel and for Israel bombing Gaza.

                What is Israel supposed to do when thousands of rockets are launched at them from Gaza? Seriously. What are they supposed to do? Say “Thank you sir, may I have another?”

                1. Be self-aware enough to realize that when you create an apartheid situation, the oppressed party might get a little snippy?

                  1. Nice dodge.

                  2. *Be self-aware enough to realize that when you create an apartheid situation,*

                    You mean the situation that the Arabs created in 1948 when they told all their denizens in the Mandate to get outta dodge so their armies could kill all the Jews?

                    1. Error made here: The Arab states invading in 1948 actually did try avoid civilian deaths, to the extent that they had to protect Jewish civilian prisoners from Palestinian rioters.

                  3. when you create an apartheid situation, the oppressed party might get a little snippy

                    What apartheid situation? Gaza isn’t the same country as Israel. They would be happy to let the Palestinians go off and be an independent state if they would just stop trying to attack Israel proper.

                    1. This is like saying that Serbia refusing to let Albania take over the country is akin to creating an “apartheid situation” for Albanians. Because the Albanians are forced to live in a small neighboring country! So I guess it would be ok for Albianas to randomly fire rockets into Serbia.

                      It’s not an exactly analogy, but that’s only because nobody is quite as retarded as the Palestinians. They are the only people on the planet who are stupid enough to keep attacking an enemy that kicks the shit of of them every time.

              2. Hiding among civilians… sheesh. Do you know how small and densely populated Gaza is?

                Tony’s version of Hamas meetings:

                “Gee, we need somewhere to store these missiles, and we’re so crowded here in Gaza that we have to use this school.”

                “Hamas headquarters just can’t fit anywhere except next to this hospital.”

                “We need an entrance for another of our terror tunnels, and there’s just nowhere to put it except under this house filled with women and children.”

        2. Tony is too stupid to see the distinction between intentionally bombing schools full of children, and kids getting killed in the crossfire.

          He is what I call Distinction-Challenged.

          1. What distinction is there for the dead?

            Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on earth. If you start bombing it, you’re going to kill innocents. So there is no total moral absolution because you state an intent not to.

            Not that Israel doesn’t have an obvious policy of retributive killing of civilians.

            1. Like I said, distinction-challenged.

            2. Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on earth

              Maybe people who live there shouldn’t have children they can’t support.

              1. They don’t have to support their own children, Western liberals will do that with foreign aid. And if you need a side hustle, every now and then a nice dictator like Saddam Hussein will send you some coin if your kid suicide bombs a Sbarro in Tel Aviv.

                1. A little-noted reason for Hamas launching this latest war is that they are broke. A lot of their Gulf sponsors have cut off aid, and they were having trouble meeting payroll. Might as well launch a bunch of rockets at Israel and hope that some donations come in.

                  1. Israel started this. They had to admit that they had no evidence Hamas was implicated in the kidnappings. AND one day prior to the kidnappings, a man and a child were killed in Gaza by Israeli airstrikes.

              2. Maybe people who live there shouldn’t raondomly fire rockets into neighboring states.

      3. 1,000 dead civilians

        According to Hamas, and they never lie!

        Barbarism is a symptom of poverty and oppression

        Sometimes barbarism, poverty, and oppression are symptoms of culture and ideology. See: pretty much the entire Muslim world.

        1. Racist babbling. That’s what you’re reduced to. You do realize that American rightwingers are pretty much alone in the world on this?

          1. So mister distinction-challenged doesn’t understand the distinction between race and culture. What a surprise.

            1. So if a people have a culture you object to (which those kids totally had a choice in participating in, of course), that gives you carte blanche to bomb them to oblivion?

              1. Um, no. But thank you for playing, mister distinction-challenged.

              2. If a culture repeatedly tries to bomb me into oblivion, I have a right to return the favor.

                1. But Palestinians don’t?

                  1. It’s been pointed out to you many times, Tony: if the Israelis wanted to bomb Gaza into oblivion, they could do it in a day, without giving any targets any warning. And yet they give warnings, and don’t just flatten the place. Your argument is refuted by simple logic and the irrefutable facts.

                    You are taking the side of Jew-hating terrorists who think that the Freemasons, the Rotary Club, and the Lions Club are part of the International Zionist Conspiracy.

                    1. I’m not taking anyone’s side. I don’t actually care. It’s over there. They’re silly fundies. Let them bomb each other into rapture. There are more people dying in other ways elsewhere on the planet.

                      I only care that people around me, like you, not fall victim to propaganda and be made stupid by it.

  17. Psalms83 just sayin
    For behold, your enemies make an uproar;
    those who hate you have raised their heads
    They lay crafty plans against your people;
    they consult together against your treasured ones.
    They say, “Come, let us wipe them out as a nation;
    let the name of Israel be remembered no more!”
    For they conspire with one accord;
    against you they make a covenant?
    the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
    Moab and the Hagrites,
    Gebal and Ammon and Amalek,
    Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre;
    Asshur also has joined them;
    they are the strong arm of the children of Lot.

  18. Looks like some pretty serious business to me dude.

    http://www.WentAnon.Tk

  19. Suggested response-
    Do to them as you did to Midian,
    as to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
    who were destroyed at En-dor,
    who became dung for the ground.
    Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
    all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
    who said, “Let us take possession for ourselves
    of the pastures of God.”
    O my God, make them like whirling dust,[a]
    like chaff before the wind.
    As fire consumes the forest,
    as the flame sets the mountains ablaze,
    so may you pursue them with your tempest
    and terrify them with your hurricane!
    Fill their faces with shame,
    that they may seek your name, O Lord.
    Let them be put to shame and dismayed forever;
    let them perish in disgrace,
    that they may know that you alone,
    whose name is the Lord,
    are the Most High over all the earth.

  20. Interesting catalog of war crimes and barbarism here:

    http://grid.pjmedia.com/?cmd=view-show&id=259

  21. Someone want to explain why Murican gets autobanned by Bo the racist is still around?

  22. Is there ANY issue in which Millennials don’t take the douchebag option? Any at all?

  23. This is an example of the foolishness of youth versus the wisdom of age. Let us hope the foolish millennials gain wisdom as they get older.

  24. These HitlerJugend/millenials listen to that self hating Jew, Jon Leibowitz. Jon Leibowitz was taken apart by Mark Levin (the great one). I am sure the reasonoids will remember Jon Leibowitz’s reaction to Mark Levin in that John Stewart Leibowitz acted like he was assaulted. I guess if I were blasted by an intellect such as Mark Levin, I would feel that many people were ganging up on me, too. He is that smart.

    “There’s no need to fear. Underzog is here.” (unless Mark Levin is blasting me, that is)

  25. Here you go, Tony:

    – At least 160 children have died digging Hamas’ tunnels.
    – The Hamas command center is located underneath a hospital.
    – Hamas executed 20 Palestinians who participated in an anti-war protest.

    I guess this just proves how much those evil Israelis have oppressed the poor Palestinians, right?

    1. Israel is behaving in an evil way; Palestinians are oppressed. These two facts do not preclude others (such as, Palestinians are also acting in evil ways). I’m the partisan and here I am talking to you about not being too tribal.

      As a good liberal I tend to ‘side’ with the oppressed over the oppressors. As a realist I recognize that the oppressed will tend to act out, even to the point of suicidal desperation. I simply think in this relationship the moral and practical onus is on the oppressor.

      1. The only reason the Palestinians are “oppressed” is that their former victims, the Jews, got powerful enough to defend themselves. The Muslims are by far the major oppressors in the Middle East. You are supporting the oppressors, not me.

  26. Holocaust Fatigue Syndrome. Millennials are sick of hearing about it. The elderly were brainwashed on it and somehow, just like Millennial White Guilt Syndrome, have internalized it and reflexively support anything Israel does the same way the white guilt-ed millennial hates anything white European or American and whines incessantly about “racism”.

    1. yeah never mind the fact that most of the Muslim theocracies in the middle east have a “finish what Hitler started” platform regarding the Jews. Does anyone remember the “cartoons” that appeared in Islamic newspapers depicting Tel Aviv ruined, filled with skulls with the star of david on them?

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