Death and Recriminations After Jet Downed Over Ukraine, GOP Doesn't Trust Justice's IRS Probe, CDC Again Promises to Be More Careful: P.M. Links

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  YouTube

  The downing—quite possibly deliberate—of a Malaysia Airlines jet over eastern Ukraine killed at least 295 people and has Russia, Ukraine, and local separatists pointing fingers.

• Israel has announced it has launched a ground offensive in the Gaza Strip.
• The Justice Department's probe of the IRS email scandal draws arched eyebrows from GOP lawmakers who consider it less than sincere.
• The Philadelphia mom busted in New Jersey for straying across the border with her legally carried pistol hopes for a touch of mercy from Garden State authorities.
• The CDC's vows to stop leaving deadly diseases lying around unsecured echo previous promises to be more careful with the stuff.
• Gay couples in Monroe County, Florida, can start getting hitched next Tuesday, says a local judge who overturned the state ban on constitutional grounds.
• The sweet, sweet smell of marijuana is no longer grounds for searching cars, the state's high court ruled.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The downing?quite possibly deliberate?of a Malaysia Airlines jet over eastern Ukraine killed at least 295 people and has Russia, Ukraine, and local separatists pointing fingers.

In their defense everyone was expecting it to be over or in the Indian Ocean.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

[Tonio]

Good one, Fist. Sick, but still funny.

[Warty]

Quite possibly?

[Episiarch]

Oh great, now Warty is going to start talking about chemtrails and the Stonecutters.

[SugarFree]

They made Steve Guttenberg a star.

[Bam!]

We do! We do!

[PD Scott]

The smoke cloud is clearly moving back and to the left.

[Andrew S.]

But the Stonecutters' influence is clearly waning. They couldn't hold back the electric car any longer.

[SugarFree]

But they did make them look as effete as possible, ensuring no one but smugtards drive them.

[waffles]

Even the BMW and Tesla?

[SugarFree]

Only the BMW. The Telsa will eat itself, gently roasted over the fire of a $40,000 replacement battery.

[Corning]

If it weren't for Nader I would just drive an electric golf cart to work and to the store.

[Mad Scientist]

Yes, but cavefish are still blind.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The real number for 911 is 912.

[Pro Libertate]

Yes, the Russians like to shoot down passenger planes. KAL 007, anyone?

Horrible.

[Fist of Etiquette]

You should probably refrain from bragging until you verify your target. Come to think of it, you should probably refrain from firing until then, too.

[Stormy Dragon]

The five rules apply to missiles as well as to firearms.

[Episiarch]

Firefox isn't just a codeword, ProL.

[Auric Demonocles]

It's a dog whistle.

[Episiarch]

DON'T TALK SHIT ABOUT CLINT EASTWOOD

[Corning]

An hour of a horrible spy thriller for 10 min of awesome...

Thank god Micheal Bay did away with that horse shit.

[Seamus]

The Russians aren't the only ones. Even good guys have been known to make horrible errors. Iran Air 655, anyone?

[Pro Libertate]

Forgot about that one.

[Virginian]

Iran Air 655 was an error, KAL 007 was on purpose.

[Seamus]

The Soviets thought that KAL 007 was a military plane. Sure sounds like an error to me.

[Jon Lester]

There had indeed been a number of KC-135 incursions into Soviet airspace before that time.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Links are like 40 seconds late.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I am hereby requesting an analysis of the plane shot down today.

Go.

[Auric Demonocles]

It dun got blowed up.

[BakedPenguin]

Blowed up real good!

[C. Anacreon]

My analysis: this will be a nonstop story on CNN for the next fortnight.

[Mickey Rat]

No it won't, it might offend Putin.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Like, you know, it's bad. But, see this red line here? Yeah well. If I find out who did this. Hoo-boy.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

First I've heard of it.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Still waiting.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

See down a few comments.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I was hoping you had a Scott O'Grady like story ready to go.

[Episiarch]

It passed through a portal in the sky into a place where almost everyone else had disappeared. Ask Stephen King, he knows all about it.

[waffles]

Quit acting like the langoliers aren't real. Heathen.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Millennials are split on the issue.

[some guy]

But they lean pro-Ukraine.

[Sudden]

Millenials are nowhere near split, they're 99.8% pro Ukraine because Vladimir Putin has committed the thoughtcrime of not mandating sodomy and not forcing the Russian Orthodox Church to officiate gay weddings.

[entropy_factor]

Pro-Russian separatists. They've shot down 3 other planes in the past few weeks, using Russian-supplied AA weapons.

[Christophe]

Sounds about right, they got sloppy, and now they're hoping to deny this (because it's a PR nightmare).

[Pro Libertate]

You left out the quotes. I mean, "pro-Russian separatists" would seem to imply people who aren't actually Russian soldiers in drag.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Putin is remembering why you can't trust satellite state hacks to get anything right.

[ant1sthenes]

It's not like there aren't plenty of Russians in Ukraine.

[Pro Libertate]

Isn't that what I said?

[ant1sthenes]

I mean, that are legit citizens of Ukraine.

[Pro Libertate]

Oh, I see. Putin sure had this planned out well in advance, huh?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

CNN is saying it was an SA-17 (SAM).

[Corning]

Ukraine's Sea of Tonkin: European War hawks in NATO command shot it down to ignite hostilities with Russia.

Plus Malaysian Air sent a plane into a war zone to save a few bucks on Fuel.

[Ted S.]

You're just pissed that you couldn't beat Fisty.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Links were on time. Franky wasn't.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I was hitting reload every 10 seconds for 40 seconds, starting at 2:30.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

my time

[Fist of Etiquette]

Which you wasted. Hit ctrl+f5 next time and you won't be staring at a cached page for what seems like an eternity.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I still contend that Fist is actually The Jacket, and he posts his comments before the link is even on the intertubez.

[jesse.in.mb]

The Jacket is Asian?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Well, he is inscrutable.

[Pro Libertate]

Not exactly. He is Shiva the Destroyer.

[Bobarian]

Not enough sleeves

[Pro Libertate]

Those other arms are in other dimensions.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Gay couples in Monroe County, Florida, can start getting hitched next Tuesday...

Or, you know, before then if they don't require that piece of paper for validation.

[Bobarian]

I look forward to the "Florida Mans" stories coming soon.

[Sticky Fingaz]

The UN thinks we could hit peak births in 2014

[Andrew S.]

What about peak derp?

[Sevo]

Nowhere close yet; derpists have a ways to go.

[some guy]

Derp may well peak when the population does or shortly thereafter. It's the sum of derp over all people, right?

[Bam!]

Caused by global warming, of course.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yeah but when does peak retard hit.

[C. Anacreon]

"Miracle of Birth Happens for 100 Billionth Time"

/Onion

[Los Doyers]

Good thing I give a bag of fucks about what the UN "thinks".

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Government The UN is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do 12 year old refugees we rape together.

[Los Doyers]

I'm consistently surprised when fellow college students profess their desire to work for the UN. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be.

[C. Anacreon]

I'm consistently surprised when college students trick-or-treat for UNICEF. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be.

[Los Doyers]

I'm consistently surprised that I still get surprised by progs and their worship of pathetic "humanitarian" organizations, but that's none of my business. *takes sip from Lipton iced tea*

[Rufus J. Firefly]

That's a lotta sugar!

[Corning]

The new UN fuck up is apparently a bunch of Hamas owned rockets were stored in a UN run school in Gaza.

[Corning]

Considering it is the UN and their club of Rome agenda my guess is we hit peak births in 1994.

[Aloysious]

Since we are on the subject today

Uganda police abuse street children, says HRW

...snip

Street children in Uganda face constant abuse from police and other government officials, a human rights group says.

Police beat children with whips and wires, throw them into jail and extort bribes from them, a report by Human Rights Watch (HRW) said.

[Suthenboy]

In Uganda that is called tuesday. Or saturday. Or whatever day it happens to be.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

"The Philadelphia mom busted in New Jersey for straying across the border with her legally carried pistol hopes for a touch of mercy from Garden State authorities."

Time for constitutional carry.

[Jordan]

Carrying a concealed Constitution? That'll get you some serious time these days.

[PD Scott]

No one needs more than seven amendments.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

+1 Positive Right

[some guy]

12, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 23

No more, no less.

[Ted S.]

"The Philadelphia mom busted in New Jersey for straying across the border with her legally carried pistol hopes for a touch of mercy from Garden State authorities."

Don't hold your breath, lady.

[Acosmist]

And some idiot in the comments was saying PA is the uniquely bad state in the middle of the enlightened ones. Yeah, except for that Second Amendment thing.

[Pathogen]

"The Philadelphia mom busted in New Jersey for straying across the border with her legally carried pistol hopes for a touch of mercy swift execution from Garden State authorities... as opposed to constant torture and a lingering death in one of their prisons"

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Justice Department's probe of the IRS email scandal draws arched eyebrows from GOP lawmakers who consider it less than sincere.

The DoJ is just trying to test the limits of brazenness.

[Auric Demonocles]

You lost emails a couple days after it came out that they suspected you of something, and then disregarded all standards on attempting to recover them?

"Yup. Well, that sounds legit. Now let's move on."

[Pro Libertate]

In any other context, this would be a gigantic mess, with everyone involved immediately fired, equipment and documents seized, and investigations conducted by people with no connection to the accused. Fuck, Holder is a possible suspect in this investigation.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He's a suspect in a lot of stuff. His successor won't do anything about it, though.

[Pro Libertate]

This tradition of not prosecuting criminals for their criminal behavior needs to end.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Self interest. If it happens to him, it'll happen to me next.

[Pro Libertate]

Yep. Which is why we need to take that decision away from the administration and give it to. . .THE CENSOR!

[ant1sthenes]

Nominate a guy with a slow-moving but terminal illness.

[Bobarian]

"If it happens to him, it'll happen to me next."

See IL Governors for reference

[Brandon]

Possible?

[Pro Libertate]

Depends on who is conducting the investigation.

[Suthenboy]

"...less than sincere."

They expected otherwise? Holder's sole job is to cover the chocolate jesus's ass.

[ant1sthenes]

Didn't he basically make his career as a fed by whitewashing Waco? He's a professional fixer, not an AG.

[Pathogen]

And masterminded the legal cover for the deportation of Eli?n Gonz?lez, Holder is dogshit stuck to the DNC's shoe a true credit to the current regime...

[BiMonSciFiCon]

The Philadelphia mom busted in New Jersey for straying across the border with her legally carried pistol hopes for a touch of mercy from Garden State authorities.

Mad Dogs and Englishmen discussed this yesterday. New Jersey is really fucked up. Not that that's news, but still.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I'm still blown away - eight months after discovering it - by the fact you can't pump your own gas in that state.

[Mad Scientist]

Nor in Oregon, where only 18-year-old high school drop outs have been given the specialized training necessary to pump fuel.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Peak oil?

Time to begin studying Peak Derp.

Fucking lame ass losers.

[Apatheist ?_??]

When I visited Oregon a North Korean immigrant pumped my gas.

[BakedPenguin]

That's actually very appropriate, in an odd sort of way.

[Apatheist ?_??]

The whole having someone pumping your gas for you is weird as fuck, and I was not looking forward to it. Even worse, having to talk to said person. And do you tip?

But then, a fucking North Korean immigrant who was happy as fuck to be doing it so, I guess that's alright. Gave him a tip too.

[Whahappan?]

Yeah, it's fucking stupid and I hate it. The worst part is having to wait for the attendant when it's busy. At least prices in Jersey are pretty good compared to most of the rest of the country, and the surrounding states.

[Mickey Rat]

There was an article on Cracked recently referring to that. There were many commenters saying they liked the law because they did not want to pump their own gas and it creates jobs. Mandating things that the market may find economically inefficient is a bad thing does not occur to them.

[thom]

Even more annoying is how TV shows set in New Jersey always show the characters pumping their own gas. I've been watching the Sopranos lately, and every time it happens it totally breaks the scene.

[KDN]

Just because it's technically illegal doesn't mean you can't do it. I pump my own gas probably 50% of the time, usually with the engine running. Take that stupid NJ regulations!

[Whahappan?]

I should probably start doing this. What are they going to do, arrest me? (Don't answer that!)

[Sevo]

You, too, can cop a feel!:

"The allegedly drunken man suspected of posing as a security screener at San Francisco International Airport long enough to direct a couple of women into a private booth for pat-downs has been identified as a private-equity executive with a big-time international resume."
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/.....628564.php

Remember folks, the TSA is a PROFESSIONAL organization!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Why aren't they naming him? Is he a cop too?

[C. Anacreon]

they named him on the news last night and showed his picture. Some 53-year-old white guy, nothing unusual looking about him.

[Bobarian]

"private-equity executive"

Well doesn't that make him a proffessional?

[C. Anacreon]

We saw this on the news last night and couldn't stop laughing at the TSA "spokespeople" about this. Apparently the ladies he fondled had limited English-speaking ability and boarded their planes for overseas, so without any witnesses the only thing they can charge him with is "public drunkeness."

What's best is that he was wearing a blue polo shirt and khakis, and had blue plastic gloves on -- which to the TV announcer was a "realistic-looking TSA uniform." So apparently all you have to do to look like a TSA agent is add blue-plastic dishwashing gloves to your business-casual look, and, most importantly, be slobberingly drunk.

[Rich]

all you have to do to look like a TSA agent is add blue-plastic dishwashing gloves to your business-casual look, and, most importantly, be slobberingly drunk

LOL. It helps to be obese, too.

[WDATPDIM!?]

My new hero! I wanna hang out with this guy.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

New Racist material.

Vantablack: A New Material So Dark, You Can't See It

[Pro Libertate]

Oh, Vanta!

[Bobarian]

Vanta, please!

Hey, I didn't say vanTER.

[C. Anacreon]

A useful new flavor to add to Fanta Orange and Fanta Grape.

[Ted S.]

Fanta Salmiakki.

[Ted S.]

It's Vantaablack, and it's Finnish death metal.

[Pro Libertate]

You know what I'd like? A small slab of Vantablack for my office, made in perfect proportions of 1:4:9.

[Pi Guy]

+1 Io and Europa

[Pro Libertate]

You forgot the one in Olduvai Gorge.

[Gene]

It would be a cool but pricey retrofit for my Celestron's poor internal flocking.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

If you were put in an all Vantablack room, with a light, would you walk into the walls?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Not if you walk towards the light.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Philadelphia mom busted in New Jersey for straying across the border with her legally carried pistol hopes for a touch of mercy from Garden State authorities.

Haven't you heard? Jersey has a conservative in the governor's mansion. She's got nothing to worry about.

[Brandon]

It does? What for, did Corpulent Jesus clog the toilet again?

[WDATPDIM!?]

LOLOLOLOL

[kinnath]

http://www.news.com.au/world/e.....6992928465

There are reports there were about nine British citizens on the flight as well Americans and 20 Dutch travelling to the Malaysian capital. One passenger took a photo of the aircraft before it took off and tweeted it to friends joking it was what the aircraft looked like should it disappear.

So does this qualify as irony?

[SugarFree]

Final Destination 8: The Destinations Are More Destant Than Ever Before!

[Episiarch]

But does it have Ali Larter in a horrendously terrible wig?

[SugarFree]

It brings back all the previous survivors. They decide to take a trip together, ignore multiple psychic warnings to get off the plane and get shot down by Megatron over Latveria.

[Episiarch]

As long as Larter isn't wearing that atrocious wig, I'm fine with it.

[Auric Demonocles]

Yeah, whatever, but what is Ali Larter wearing?

[Episiarch]

Whipped Cream. Duh.

[Auric Demonocles]

I need to rewatch that movie.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

My wife does a perfect imitation of that scene every time we go out for frozen yogurt (except for the naked part).

She also does (in a horrible TX accent) "Things change, Mox!".

[Bronwyn]

Wow.

And she's married to one of my high school classmates. Lucky him, I guess.

[Warty]

It's like 10,000 plane crashes when all you need is for your plane not to crash.

[SugarFree]

I hope her giant flat ass haunts your dreams to night.

I curse thee! I curse thee! I curse thee!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It's so weird, right? Plane crashes always seem to happen to people who don't want to be in plane crashes.

[Warty]

An old man turned ninety-eight
He won the lottery and died in a plane crash the next day

[waffles]

I didn't know it was a plane crash. Wow, that's so ironic.
Don't you think?

[Warty]

You think everything's gone wrong and everything blows up
In your face

Hey look, I didn't even need to change that line.

[Rich]

I trust her apartment is being searched as we speak.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I guess irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

So does the NSA have the electronic signature of whoever launched that missile, or is Obama going to have to learn about it by reading the paper tomorrow?

[Mike M.]

The NSA is far too busy spying on Obama's enemies (Americans who oppose his policies) to be concerned about the Russians.

[Rich]

Joe Biden called President Poroshenko to offer U.S. assistance in the investigation into "what happened and why."

And did President Poroshenko politely decline?

[PD Scott]

Whenever a US made jet goes down, the NTSB offers assistance. Most countries are glad of it due to the high technical capabilities NTSB can call upon (including the FBI crime labs, etc.).

[Rich]

Of course.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

11 Classy Insults With Classical Greek and Latin Roots

Figure we could crank it up a notch around here.

[Rich]

Not really an insult, but I'll offer "callipygian" as a nice Greek-rooted adjective.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

*golf clap*

[Clich? Bandit]

Kristen taught me that word...now she uses Kaptious.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Horning in on HMs turf, I see

[Heroic Mulatto]

I don't claim any exclusivity over the foundations of our shared cultural heritage.

[Stormy Dragon]

I've always liked "execrable" because it sounds a lot worse than it actually is.

[waffles]

Movie reviewers tend to use it all the time.

[Rich]

"That BM was execrable."

[kibby]

Well this is awesome.

[Aloysious]

Meanwhile, in Ethiopia...

Armed with some basic juggling implements, a few tumbling mats and a flair for costume-making, a circus in a small Ethiopian town has turned itself into a professional troupe, bringing shows to local villages and to audiences in Africa and Europe. Circus Debre Berhan is based in the town of that name, a few hours north-east of the capital, Addis Ababa. It started in the late 1990s as part of a network of amateur circuses and has now developed its own professional troupe.

How are they going to get through Somalia? I've been told there are no roads in Somalia.

[PD Scott]

Simple, use a 4x4 clown car.

[Obama's Buttplug]

Circus Debre Berhan is based in the town of that name

A town named Circus Debre Berhan produced a circus. Wow! That's almost as freaky as Lou Gehrig dying of Lou Gehrig's disease.

[C. Anacreon]

What do you suppose that town calls the roundabout intersection in the middle of their main street?

[WDATPDIM!?]

So then the circus is actually the Circus Debre Berhan Circus?

[jesse.in.mb]

Scientists Are Mapping the Ocean's Plastic Because 99 Percent Is Missing

As the study published in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences last week explains, there should be 99 percent more plastic floating on the surface of the ocean than there is. But a team led by Andres Cozar Caba?as sailed the world for nine months collecting surface data from all over the globe, and found way less plastic than they expected. And that's not good news. [Emphasis mine]

The best part is that the commenters (on a Gawker site no less!) are calling bullshit.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I hope this means MB is going to lift the plastic bag ban. They specifically cited the Pacific garbage patch as the reason for the ordinance.

[Auric Demonocles]

Or perhaps the estimates were 99% too high?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Unpossible.

[Sevo]

No way! Why, those "estimates" were provided by people with college degree!
They can't be wrong!

[Suthenboy]

"Or perhaps the estimates were 99% too high?"

I hope you aren't suggesting that fear-mongering tree huggers with hidden agendas might gin up.......oh, never mind.

[wingnutx]

No, the science is settled.

[BakedPenguin]

Well, one of the definition of settle is "to cause to become clear by depositing dregs."

I could kind of see that.

[Clich? Bandit]

technically, and correct me if I am wrong (as I am sure you will) but if you estimate 100 pieces of trash and you find only 1 then your estimate was 10,000% too high. if you found 2 then 100% too high, 1000% = 10, and 10,000% = 100...so, 99% of the expected trash may be missing but your estimate was 10,000% too high.

[CatoTheElder]

You are correct that, if they only found 1% of the trash originally estimated, their original estimate was 10,000% too high. Well, I suppose one could argue that it was only 9,900% too high. (I.e., they only failed to recover 99 pieces of trash, but they did manage to find one piece of trash.)

However, if they had found 2 pieces of trash, the original estimate would have been 5,000% too high. Or, arguably, 4800% too high, if by "too high" one means [E(n) - n] / E(n) rather than n / E(n), where E represents estimated value of n and n represents the actual value of n.

[MJGreen]

The model is fact. Direct observations are mere guesses.

[Pathogen]

"Or perhaps the estimates were 99% too high?"

Are you suggesting that those estimates may have been "massaged" a bit? Don't sugarcoat it!

[PD Scott]

Someday a giant kraken will float to the surface, its gullet filled with millions of plastic bags...

[Episiarch]

The cthonians love plastic. DEEP SEVEN yo.

[Rich]

And when it belches, global warming will kick up five degrees.

[Sevo]

So THAT'S were all the degrees have been hiding! Those sneaky degrees!

[Tonio]

Maybe someone has been harvesting it. Or some-thing.

[jesse.in.mb]

I think one of the comments joked that dolphins were collecting bottles to fund their invasion of our coastal areas.

I, for one, fear cephalopods much more.

[Homple]

The garbage ran off to shack up with the missing global warming heat which climate experts say has been hiding in the deep ocean since 1998.

[Pathogen]

Those plastic bottles and bags are where the oceans store all that missing heat. Biding their time.. plotting and waiting..

[Hyperion]

The aquafarians are taking it, because they have no plastic in their underwater cities.

[Obama's Buttplug]

Scientists Are Mapping the Ocean's Plastic Because 99 Percent Is Missing

and

As the study published in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences last week explains, there should be 99 percent more plastic floating on the surface of the ocean than there is

don't add up. If 99% is missing, then there should be a shit ton more than just 99% more.

[Clich? Bandit]

ahh I see AGAIN my point was made before my post...well FUCK A WELL HEELED DUCK you Morosoph.

[WDATPDIM!?]

That's real retarded, sir.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Yes but the models say it's there. Who are you going to believe, the evidence or Tony?

[Emmerson Biggins]

It's probably the Dark Plastic from upthread.

[CatoTheElder]

Some pretty serious innumeracy for an allegedly scientific website.

The title says 99% is missing, which means that the "scientists" could only find 1% of the plastic that their earlier "research" said they should find.

The text says there should be "99 percent more ... than there is." This means that they only found about half of the plastic that their earlier "research" said they should find.

[CatoTheElder]

Ocean garbage researchers have a lot to learn from climate scientists. That is, they should stick with their garbage model predictions and destroy their original data if they conflict with their findings.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It came hours after Hamas militants tried to infiltrate Israel through a tunnel under the Gaza-Israel border, but were stopped by Israel.

Sounds like the Iron Sphere is working.

[PD Scott]

You mean Iron Dome, the air defense system?

[Heroic Mulatto]

THAT'S THE JOKE!

[Fist of Etiquette]

It couldn't penetrate Scott's dome.

[PD Scott]

The tin foil does keep the odd one out. My apologies for not getting your bon mot.

[Pro Libertate]

A dome implies a vulnerability. Subterranean mole-drones.

[jesse.in.mb]

AM Links:

A ceasefire deal has been reached to end fighting between Israel and the Palestinian militants in Gaza, an Israeli official has told the BBC.

PM Links:

Israel has announced it has launched a ground offensive in the Gaza Strip.

WHICH IS IT!?

[Bam!]

"Ceasefire" is Hebrew for "We'll get you later."

[Sevo]

And I'm pretty sure "ceasefire" is Hamas for 'forget it; we'll keep shooing!'

[Heroic Mulatto]

From the horse's mouth, Article 13 of the Hamas Charter:
Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

[Heroic Mulatto]

"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."

[Bo Cara Esq.]

In fairness, didn't the Likud party hold to the idea of 'Greater Israel' which would seem pretty uncompromising to the fate of the Gazans (among others) as well?

[Virginian]

The Likud POV is that if they want to have a war, then let's fight a real one, where the losing government gets dissolved by the winner.

If there was some kind of of Palestinian uprising, and every member of Hamas ended up dangling from a rope, and the new Palestinian government offered a real peace treaty, then there'd be peace.

All they have to do if they want peace is stop shooting rockets at Israel. That's it.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

With respect, you're not talking about what I mentioned at all. Likud's official position was for a long time that of Greater Israel, that the land the Palestinians reside in currently, and a lot more, should and would be Israeli land, period. The implication there for those non-Israelis residing there strikes me as foreboding as what Hamas says they want.

[Calidissident]

Likud party doctrine has varied and been unclear over the years but they historically have opposed the creation of a Palestinian state and supported the expansion of settlements in the West Bank, which is a pretty big roadblock to long-term peace

[Virginian]

Well, the issue with a two state solution is that the Palestinians rejected one decades ago. The UN Partition Plan was rejected by the Arabs, they chose instead to wage a war of extermination.

The Likud POV is essentially that the Arabs chose the sword over a political compromise, and so they don't get to come back now decades later after so many lives have been lost and get the same deal they rejected. That it isn't fair for one side to have fought for their very existence several times, at great expense in blood and treasure, and then have to give the other side the same deal they rejected so many years ago. I can't blame them for that at all.

SLD applies.

[Calidissident]

Except the deal is not the same. The current borders aren't remotely the same as the 1948 ones

[Sevo]

Calidissident|7.17.14 @ 7:05PM|#
"Except the deal is not the same. The current borders aren't remotely the same as the 1948 ones"

Yes, the Israelis decided after winning every damn war the Arab started they wanted more defensible borders.
Did you have a point?

[Calidissident]

Sevo, did you gloss over the part where Virginian declared it (at least from the Likud POV) the the "same deal?" If you read that, then you can see that my point was merely noting that it is quite clearly not the "same deal," regardless of why that it is so. You seem to be arguing as if I'm some Palestinian nationalist and assuming I hold certain positions, rather than actually arguing what I'm saying.

[Virginian]

Except the deal is not the same. The current borders aren't remotely the same as the 1948 ones

No, they're a lot bigger, because every time the Israelis get invaded, they win, and they take more territory, which is what the victors have done in pretty much every war throughout human history.

The Israelis have been on the defensive every single time. They've acted in self-defense throughout their entire existence.

Essentially the Arabs in general, and the Palestinians in particular, have for the entire existence of Israel made war upon Israel. They then get incredibly butthurt when they get their asses kicked and lose land in wars they started. Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

[Calidissident]

My point is that this isn't the same deal.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Essentially the Arabs in general, and the Palestinians in particular, have for the entire existence of Israel made war upon Israel. They then get incredibly butthurt when they get their asses kicked and lose land in wars they started. Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

Please. This is like claiming that Native Americans don't have any right to be bitter, and they should just suck it up and be happy on their reservations.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"The Likud POV is essentially that the Arabs chose the sword over a political compromise, and so they don't get to come back now decades later after so many lives have been lost and get the same deal they rejected."

No, you still do not know what we are talking about. Likud long held the position of Revisionist Zionism that that land, and much more, belongs to Israel, and the people on it must give way.

[Sevo]

"All they have to do if they want peace is stop shooting rockets at Israel. That's it."

Exactly. They can have peace the day they choose to.

[Seamus]

Well, that's certainly what "hudna" means in Arabic.

[OldMexican]

BOTH! AT THE SAME TIME! UPHILL, BOTH WAYS!

[Scott S.]

The first was correct this morning. The second is correct now.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Don't stoop to wading into the comments. It diminishes your office.

[Auric Demonocles]

Don't discourage them. Unless it's via viscous insults about their moms.

[Brandon]

What about vicious insults about their spelling?

[Bobarian]

Auric was referencing thick gooey insults.

[Auric Demonocles]

Scotts mom gets sticky, not wet.

[jesse.in.mb]

Well now we know you read the comments even when it isn't your turn to do the links.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He was even here on his birthday earlier this week.

[jesse.in.mb]

Sometimes it seems like everyone is a Cancer.

[Bobarian]

A ceasefire deal has been reached to end fighting between Israel and the Palestinian militants in Gaza, an Israeli official has told the BBC [in order to facilitate reloading].

[Pro Libertate]

I don't blame the Israelis, especially when the U.S. is in total flail-about mode.

[Suthenboy]

Hopefully they will hunt every damn one of those scum down and kill them.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, I imagine they're getting frustrated with the constant rocket attacks, and Hamas has done nothing to show that it's willing to do anything about them. I mean, let's be honest, we'd have occupied Gaza after the second rocket hit if this were U.S. territory.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I heard yesterday Egypt tried mightily to broker a peace deal but Hamas refused and kept shooting rockets. They're mad. It's like shooting spitballs at the all county lineman in high school while your friend is pleading with him to not smash you.

[Pro Libertate]

Egypt may want Hamas wiped out, too.

[Pro Libertate]

Meaning that the current government of Egypt probably views Hamas as Muslim Brotherhood-like and may not be that upset at Hamas' intransigence.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

My father in law was convinced he got cancer sitting as President of his Church where he had to deal with all sorts of Arabs. And these were CHRISTIANS.

Canadian born, he was a very rational, educated, successful, introspective guy everyone respected, yet, he could never get his board to ever agree - on anything. Just when he thought he got it after hours upon days of arguing and compromise, they'd turn around and break their word and resume fighting.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Arguing and bickering just for the sake of arguing and bickering is a time-honored pastime shared by all Semitic peoples.

Your FiL should have been more culturally sensitive.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

He was! He sat on that board for 20 years!

They kept begging for him to stay.

Most of them were his friends but by the end he was exhausted.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Did I mention he was of Lebanese heritage?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Heh...well there you go.

I would have stuck around for the lamb and stuffed grape leaves, myself.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Oh man. Those home made grape leaves are great. Too bad my wife's grand mother died before I met her. Apparently she was a fiend in the kitchen.

[WDATPDIM!?]

Homemade grape leaves? Why not just grow them like the Frogs do it?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Geez. How many of us here are married to women of middle eastern descent?

[SugarFree]

If my wife was anymore white she'd be pink.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

They're all pink on the inside.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Where's yours from?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Persian Jew.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Sorry, 1/2 Persian Jew. Her mom is Scotch/Irish.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Nice mix.

[Marshall Gill]

Arguing and bickering just for the sake of arguing and bickering is a time-honored pastime shared by all Semitic peoples.

So we are all Jews now?

[Dr. Fronkensteen]

Tin foil hat time. It looks to me like we've been on a soft gold standard of $1300.00/oz for around the past year or so. Am I seeing a pattern that doesn't exist. Or is this gold market manipulation. Probably by the Chinese thinking a strong dollar will help their export based economy. While I support a soft gold standard as a first step to a sound money regime of some sort it doesn't strike me as Yellen/Obama's MO.

Past year gold prices below.

http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au0365nyb.html

[Palin's Buttplug]

OK, I'll bite. What use is a soft gold standard if no currency is backed by gold?

[Sevo]

Fuck you, turd.

[OldMexican]

Re: Peter Caca,

OK, I'll bite. What use is a soft gold standard if no currency is backed by gold?

Gold is currency. You can pay salaries with American Eagles.

[Corning]

Even if you legally couldn't lots of people would still take it for good and services under the table...

though at a discount value.

This does expose Shrike as a scum bag statist. A currency does not need to be blessed by the government gods to be a currency....and gold despite its near outlaw currency status and discounted value due to its near outlaw status is worth $1300 an ounce....I wonder how much US fiat would be worth if it was nearly illegal to use?

[Dr. Fronkensteen]

By the price not going out of a predetermined range it keeps the issuer of the currency from printing too much. Or more unlikely too little.

[entropy_factor]

So weird to see people tweet cheering Israeli war. I don't care either way about Israel (ie, it should exist, but so should the Palestinians). It's just weird, people tweet giddily like it's fucking Christmas or something.

I don't think it's pro-Hamas to say that it is sad to see people getting blown up. I say this as a combat veteran Marine. Our whole culture has morally decayed so bad that we have a bloodlust for this stuff. It's scary, to be honest. The dehumanizing that's been done is really going to have consequences. For now, we just sit back and watch it on our TV screens like it isn't real. But as soon as something like that happens here (ie 9/11), omg here comes the victim card. We were grievously injured, but so are all the people we watch enduring all this crazy shit on the evening news. We are detached from our humanity. *shrug*

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The macabre irony is the people cheering this shit on choosing sides don't know what it's like to live a brutal life.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I don't think it's pro-Hamas to say that it is sad to see people getting blown up. I say this as a combat veteran Marine.

But that's the thing. The people cheering on the sidelines aren't the ones who are having to fight.

[entropy_factor]

Never are

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I think some people would like to see this sort of behavior punished:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/2.....l-in-gaza/

Problem is, the innocent always pay the price.

[Heroic Mulatto]

UNRWA apologizes to Israel

Woah! Hell froze over and no one told me?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

There is practically nothing to like about the UN, but in this case they found the weapons themselves and then did the right thing by exposing Hamas and denouncing the activity which is a big PR win for Israel and their thanks is to get run down by rabid Israeli supporters.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Indeed. We should also be grateful to UNRWA for funding those summer camps to keep which keep kids out of trouble.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

What's the link to?

[Heroic Mulatto]

A 20-minute documentary.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Is there a print source you can recommend?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It's a lot more poignant when you see cute little kids being taught to saw awful things.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

A UN funded jihad camp for Palestinian children.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I like some of the comments:

"the UN should be bombed and Banky Moonbat should be tried as an enemy combatant."

"UN caught, Comprehensive investigation, sounds just like Obama! We informed Americans know the truth. The UN is Anti a Isreal, just like Obama"

"the un is anti isreal. need more proof? isreal had better move into gaza to stop the constant war. maybe dump hamas into the ocean"

[Episiarch]

It's entertainment for them. Bread and circuses for a new era. It's nothing new.

[entropy_factor]

which is weird, man. Step back and look at it- it's weird. YAY! Drop those bombs! Look at that fire! Tanks now? FUCKING SICKKK! Hamas opposes Israel, wipe them off the map!

The irony is they don't see that pro-Israel people largely use the exact same rhetoric as the Islamists do. Exactly.

You could show video evidence of Israelis raping and setting a grandma on fire, and the comeback would be "They are our only allies in the region!!". It's absurd and really makes me question the moral state of this country, more so than usual.

[Episiarch]

The Israel/Palestine conflict is just another partisan TEAM thing. People--especially really stupid, simple people--love to have all their enemies and friends laid out as simply as possible for them. Being on a TEAM means no thinking necessary. And of course you'll note how it roughly corresponds to TEAM RED and TEAM BLUE (in terms of which sides they take).

Like I said, it's an extension of the entertainment and lifestyle that is partisanship. And partisans are pretty repulsive fuckers.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Nothing new. Humans have always been tribal and bloodlusty.

[PapayaSF]

I don't buy moral equivalency regarding this conflict. Israel is a democracy that just wants to exist. They fight in self-defense. Hamas and the PLO are Jew-hating, totalitarian terrorists who revel in slaughter of civilians and want to destroy Israel. Israel is being bombarded with hundreds of missiles, so it's understandable that Israelis and their friends cheer a counterattack.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"Israel is a democracy"

Not so much for the Palestinians under their control, and that's kind of the issue...

[PapayaSF]

The losers of aggressive wars often lose territory. The solution is to not attack your neighbors in the first place. I don't feel sorry for Palestinians because they're not as good at killing Jews as they'd like to be.

[Cytotoxic]

This. Additionally, Arab Israelis have the same rights as other Israelis. If the Palis were a civilized bunch they would be grateful for Israeli dominance and ask for citizenship.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"Additionally, Arab Israelis have the same rights as other Israelis"

I'm not talking about them.

"If the Palis were a civilized bunch they would be grateful for Israeli dominance"

Good grief you are a real monster, you know that.

[Cytotoxic]

For what? Pointing the patently obvious fact that the nation of Palestine is no more fit for existence than the Confederacy? That Palis are better off under Israeli liberation than home-grown oppression? I'd rather be a monster than whatever you are.

[Calidissident]

You're high off your ass if you think Israel would give the Palestinians citizenship

[Sevo]

Calidissident|7.17.14 @ 6:43PM|#
"You're high off your ass if you think Israel would give the Palestinians citizenship"

Really?
"Arab citizens of Israel are non-Jewish Israeli citizens, the majority of whose cultural and linguistic heritage or ethnic identity is Palestinian"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A....._of_Israel

[Calidissident]

I'm referring to the people living in the West Bank and Gaza, and refugees in surrounding countries. The fact that Israel gave citizenship to Arabs within their borders does not mean that they would be fine granting it to the 4.5 million people in those territories today plus millions more including Palestinian refugees in neighboring countries.

[Sevo]

Calidissident|7.17.14 @ 7:13PM|#
"The fact that Israel gave citizenship to Arabs within their borders does not mean that they would be fine granting it to the 4.5 million people in those territories today plus millions more including Palestinian refugees in neighboring countries."

Uh, well, I guess you must know all about what Israel would do under all sorts of circumstances.
I only know what the gov't *did* do.

[Calidissident]

This isn't some secret that requires a phd in Mideast studies to know. Are you familiar at all with the debate on the Palestinian right of return?

[Sevo]

Calidissident|7.17.14 @ 7:26PM|#
"This isn't some secret that requires a phd in Mideast studies to know."
Not only is it not a secret, it's a wild ass guess that any idiot could make.

"Are you familiar at all with the debate on the Palestinian right of return?"
Yes, and I'm also familiar with the fact that there's a good bit of evidence they were not forced to leave.
Further, quite a few Jews were also 'relocated' but the Arabs.
How far back would you like to go?

[Calidissident]

Do you even grasp why I said that? If Palestinians were granted Israeli citizenship they would then have the right to return to Israel. That's not exactly a popular proposition among Israelis

[Sevo]

Calidissident|7.17.14 @ 7:48PM|#
..."If Palestinians were granted Israeli citizenship they would then have the right to return to Israel."...

You seem to be very good at stacking hypothetical on hypothetical to 'prove' a third hypothetical.
I'm sure when Israel was first incorporated, a good number of people swore Arabs would never get citizenship. And yet, they somehow managed to work it out.
Not hypothetically; in fact.

[Calidissident]

How is that another hypothetical? How are they going to deny the right of citizens to enter the vast majority of their territory? What happened 70 years ago means nothing as to what they would do today. Granting Palestinians citizenship would make Jews a minority in Israel. Please show me anything indicating that Israeli politicians or a large number of Israelis would be ok with that.

[Sevo]

Calidissident|7.17.14 @ 8:02PM|#
"How is that another hypothetical? [...]
Granting Palestinians citizenship would make Jews a minority in Israel."

Do you read what you post?
I don't have the answer, nor did have the answer when they started granting citizenship. I figured I'd let THEM work that out.
But your wild-ass guesses stated as fact are bullshit.

[Calidissident]

It's not a wild ass guess. Anyone with half decent knowledge of the conflict knows that this idea is not popular among Israelis

[CatoTheElder]

I wonder how Jewish proggies resolve their proclaimed love of diversity with their resistance to the right of return. Right of return would certainly contribute greatly to diversity in the geographic area now known as Israel.

[Calidissident]

You're high off your ass if you think Israel would give the Palestinians citizenship

[Calidissident]

Damn squirrels!

[Pathogen]

"You're high off your ass if you think Israel would give the Palestinians citizenship"

Spot on. Palestinian majority in control of the IDF? That would be the day...

[entropy_factor]

^ as a libertarian, how can you say "they should be grateful for [Israel's] dominance"? Error, does not compute.

[Cytotoxic]

^ as a libertarian, how can you say "they should be grateful for [Israel's] dominance"? Error, does not compute.

As a libertarian, how can I not say that? Israeli domination = far more freedom than the alternative

Cali: while it is unlikely, the option of totally annexing the West Bank and giving all of its people Israeli citizenship is not unheard of in Israel. It is favored by sections of the hard left and hard right. I favor this option, and would allow peaceful secession into small clan-based emirates.

[Calidissident]

What percentage of Israelis do those groups constitute? Do you have links with more info? What about gaza and the refugees elsewhere? I'd love a peaceful solution that resulted in one free harmonious state but it's just not going to happen, for multiple reasons

[Sevo]

"I'd love a peaceful solution"

So would the Jews, but Hamas seems to prefer conflict.

[Calidissident]

They definitely do and IMO they are clearly the biggest roadblock to peace. But even among "the Jews" (as if that's a monolithic group that agrees on everything) support for that proposal with those conditions would be low for several reasons.

[Cytotoxic]

I admit, I do not have those data. The 'refugees' are the problem their host countries who have systematically marginalized them.

[Calidissident]

The treatment of Palestinian refugees by neighboring Arab states has certainly been heinous. Regardless those people are important to Palestinians in the territories and I don't think they're cool with leaving them eternally stateless and outside Israel/Palestine

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The Palestinians lost their land when Jordan and other nations fought aggressive wars against Israel, right?

[Sevo]

Pretty sure the 'Palestinians' were *invented8 as a people sometime around then.

[Drake]

More complicated than that...

No such thing as "Palestinians" before 1948 - just Arabs who happened to live in British controlled area of the what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories.

During the first Arab-Israeli war, the President of Syria (Shukri al-Quwatli) encouraged the Arabs to leave the area so the Syrian Army could kill the Jews.

After the Syrians got their asses kicked, lots of Arabs showed up at the border claiming they lived in Israel. The Israelis laughed and laughed.

After one of their real wars, Israel could have expelled all the Arabs from the West Bank and forced Jordan to annex Gaza. Maybe next time.

[Cytotoxic]

Don't you mean 'force Egypt to annex Gaza?'

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"No such thing as "Palestinians" before 1948 just Arabs who happened to live in British controlled area of the what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories."

And from shortly after the time of Christ to 1948 there was no such thing as "Israelis," just Jews that happened to live in British controlled area of the what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories.

[Sevo]

"And from shortly after the time of Christ to 1948 there was no such thing as "Israelis,""

So we should look over there?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

No such thing as "Palestinians" before 1948 - just Arabs who happened to live in British controlled area of the what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories

I always find it interesting that people seem to believe that Middle Eastern cultural identities didn't exist before 1948, as if the sudden creation of the state of Israel, made largely out of whole cloth for the benefit of foreign migrants from Russia and Europe, made people who had lived in that area for hundreds of years suddenly realize that identity.

[Seamus]

When the losers of aggressive wars lose territory, the inhabitants of that territory generally become citizens of the conquering country (like the inhabitants of Alsace-Lorraine and Northern Schleswig after World War I) or they get expelled (like the east European Germans after World War II). The latter is now considered a crime against humanity ("ethnic cleansing") under international law, so when are the Israelis going to start practicing the first?

[ant1sthenes]

Just another example of why democracy should be based on the notion of a coherent demos rather than a territory.

[Calidissident]

I do not think that the Israeli government and Hamas are morally equivalent but that doesn't mean that the former is above criticism. Supporting a counterattack doesn't mean you have to cheer people dying like this is a sports game. Hamas and similar groups may be the biggest roadblocks to peace but that doesn't mean that the Israeli government is perfect or hasn't done things harmful to resolution of the conflict

[Sevo]

Hamas can have peace the day they decide they want it. Until then, I have zero sympathy for them, regardless of whether the Israeli government is perfect or not.
They are thugs deserving of nut-kicks all day long.

[entropy_factor]

I don't buy that, at all. I really do think Israel's end-goal is absorbing Gaza and West Bank. It is a theocratic state, so they will also kick out dissidents eventually.

[Cytotoxic]

That's a load of shit.

[Sevo]

entropy_factor|7.17.14 @ 7:03PM|#
"I don't buy that, at all"...

Strange that Israel only responds with force, but you don't buy it?
Why would that be?

[Calidissident]

I'm shedding no tears for Hamas. And yes they do need to stop firing rockets which would end Israeli strikes and invasions. However, a lasting stable peace and two state solution is not possible without settling the conflict over the settlements in the West Bank and that is an area where Israel is definitely deserving of blame

[Cytotoxic]

Israel is deserving of blame for building schools and shopping malls in vacant land?

If you think a peaceful outcome and a 'two-state solution' are compatible or even tangentially related, then it is you that is high off your ass.

[Calidissident]

That's a totally neutral description that fully grasps the complexity of the situation. A two state solution might not be likely in the near future but it's a hell of a lot more likely and easier to achieve than a one state fantasy

[Cytotoxic]

No it isn't. For the two-state solution to be viable, Palis would have to value peace. They value killing Jews.

[Calidissident]

Nice collectivism there. And if we assume that to be true why the hell would Israel ever give them citizenship?

[Kreel Sarloo]

They're not "building schools and shopping malls in vacant land", they are building schools and shopping malls and houses that are exclusively for Israeli citizens on land that belongs to people who have titles dating back hundreds of years under the Ottoman Empire.

It's "eminent domain" with a religious twist.

[PapayaSF]

My tongue-in-cheek take on West Bank settlements: Who do these Jews think they are to believe they have a right to live in a place that for thousands of years has been called Judea?

[Kreel Sarloo]

Could it be because for about 1800 years they didn't live there?

[PapayaSF]

I believe Jews have lived all over the Middle East since forever, though they were rarely a majority anywhere.

[Calidissident]

Clearly you must then be in favor of native Americans assuming control and ownership of the entire United States? I'm not sure how exactly a Palestinian state is supposed to work with hundreds of Israeli settlements within it's proposed borders. Palestinians could give up violence forever and that would still be a huge roadblock to any sort of solution

[Kreel Sarloo]

I do recognize that native Americans have legitimate grievances against the US government which need to be dealt with.

Furthermore, native Americans did not have a formal system of land tenure (ie land titles), the Ottoman Empire did.

Just because the British government fucked over the Arab (as well as the Jewish) occupants of the land that the League of Nations gave them a mandate over is no reason for us to perpetuate the injustice.

[PapayaSF]

Just because the British government fucked over the Arab (as well as the Jewish) occupants of the land that the League of Nations gave them a mandate over is no reason for us to perpetuate the injustice.

I think any injustice towards Arabs is balanced out by all the Jews who lost their property and even lives in all the surrounding Arab countries, before and during the creation of Israel.

Partitions are hard and always produce some degree of individual injustice, but all the Jews got was a tiny sliver of land of the region in question. The Arabs got all the rest, but no, that wasn't enough. They wanted it all. Well, they lost all the wars they started. Tough shit. They should just give up and deal with it.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I think any injustice towards Arabs is balanced out by all the Jews who lost their property and even lives in all the surrounding Arab countries, before and during the creation of Israel

Does this apply when taking into account all the non-Middle Eastern Jews that migrated there after they were told a state would be created for them to live in?

Let's not forget that for hundreds of years, Jews and Arabs in the caliphates and later Turkish empires largely tended to live peacefully next to each other. The actual wars didn't start until guilt-ridden white Europeans decided to create a state out of whole cloth for them--which, perhaps not coincidentally, is a scenario that has played out in several former European colonies as well.

We mock governments all the time for creating "winners and losers," but somehow doing the same thing for an entire ethnic group is supposed to be considered noble rather than contemptible.

[PapayaSF]

Let's not forget that for hundreds of years, Jews and Arabs in the caliphates and later Turkish empires largely tended to live peacefully next to each other.

Nope.

[Cytotoxic]

ALL civilians casualties are the fault of the aggressor, Hamas, so long as Israel is killing in pursuit of peace. Further, the Israeli government not only has the right but the obligation to kill whoever it needs to end the aggression by Hamas-including Dresden-style bombing of and subsequent slaughter of civilians.

[Kreel Sarloo]

If Israel doesn't like Hamas, it's their own fault for subsidizing them so that they could gain European sympathy.

They figured that encouraging an extremist Islamic opposition they'd preempt the sympathy that Euro Social Democrats were developing for Yasser Arafat's secular socialist PLO.

[PapayaSF]

I am not saying that the Israelis are perfect or above criticism, but it's clear that they have been outnumbered and fighting defensive wars for decades, and that they are not filled with dangerous terrorist loons who hate the US. On the other hand, the Palestinians have acted like dangerous terrorist loons who hate the US. Screw 'em.

[Calidissident]

All Palestinians have acted like terrorist loons who hate the US? That hate has nothing to do with US support of Israel? Don't get me wrong - I am not pro-Palestinian or anti-Israeli. Most arguments I have in real life on this topic are against idiotic pro-Palestinian leftists. I wish the US would stay out of the conflict.

What exactly is your solution? The status quo forever? Israel annexing and permanently occupying the territories without giving the Palestinians citizenship?

[PapayaSF]

OK, not every single Palestinian. Just a large percentage, if not a majority, and just every single one of their "representatives," elected or not.

I have little problem supporting countries that are friendly democracies and not a threat to mine, and opposing countries that attack mine and countries friendly to mine. I admit that's more a stance than a solution.

[entropy_factor]

I don't care about some bullshit feud. I don't care if Hamas is "jew-hating" or not. If you really wanna be objective, I think it's clear:

Israel will eventually seize both the West Bank and Gaza and absorb them into the Israeli state, and purge dissidents. That's very obviously the plan.

And I simply think it's weird for Americans (who are 100% unaffected by Hamas) to cheer Israel's bombing of buildings etc. It's not like its an even match. The rockets do not come close to challenging Israel's legitimacy. I'm not a supporter of what Hamas does either, but I just think it's weird that America's reaction is basically "YEAH ISRAEL GO FUCK UP DEM SAND NIGGERS"

[Sevo]

..."The rockets do not come close to challenging Israel's legitimacy."...

Yeah, just some rockets tossed randomly into a country's populated areas.
No challenge to 'legitimacy' there, right?
Bull
.
.
.
.
.
shit.

[entropy_factor]

the govt is not going to collapse. Period. That's my point.

[Cytotoxic]

Israel will eventually seize both the West Bank and Gaza and absorb them into the Israeli state, and purge dissidents. That's very obviously the plan.

OOooh I can't wait to see your proof of this! It would be especially startling considering that Israel pulled out of Gaza almost 10 years ago, for which they got missiles in return. Did The Jews also carry out 9/11?

[entropy_factor]

strawman, fallacy of.

time will tell. My money is on my prediction, but its not based on "jew hate" lol

[PapayaSF]

Israel will eventually seize both the West Bank and Gaza and absorb them into the Israeli state, and purge dissidents. That's very obviously the plan.

Then why did Israel end their occupation of Gaza years ago? They left greenhouses which the Arabs destroyed out of spiteful idiocy.

[PapayaSF]

I don't care if Hamas is "jew-hating" or not.

You know who else didn't care about Jew-hating...?

(I keed, I keed.)

[Mickey Rat]

"It's not like its an even match."

If your opponent is obviously that much stronger than you, why in the world are you picking a fight?

"The rockets do not come close to challenging Israel's legitimacy."

If somebody is lobbing explosives at their citizens, a legitimate government has an obligation to put a stop to it.

[entropy_factor]

goddamn, for "libertarians" there sure is a lot of Katian "duty" and cries in the night for bigger govt here lol.

Look, Israel firsters belong in Israel. Neither side is the "good" guys. I refuse to ignore either side's wrongdoing because of some bullshit mythology written years ago.

[entropy_factor]

* Kantian.

And either way, it doesn't matter. In a week, Israel will roll up Gaza, apologize for the innocent killed, and Reason will be back to reporting on dem dere weed lawz.

I just think that some people drop their priorities when referring to Israel and I think it's not logically consistent

[PapayaSF]

It's perfectly logically consistent for libertarians to support friendly democracies over dictatorial terror states that wish to destroy them.

[Mickey Rat]

I did not suggest there are good guys. I find arguments that a 98 pound weakling can throw punches at a linebacker and then garner sympathy based on that disparity when the linebacker retaliates in kind tiresome.

One of the few legitimate duties a government has is to protect its citizenry from foreign violence. Lobbing rockets at a population center is exactly that sort of violence.

It seems you are doing an excellent job at ignoring one side's wrongdoing.

[Aloysious]

Lawn bowling for hipsters

Think of lawn bowls, and you will probably imagine elderly men and women in white, competing in sombre silence. But in Australia the game is being taken over by the young and the hip - who want to have fun and walk barefoot on the grass.

...snip

...featured young people playing lawn bowls, albeit somewhat ironically, and that - says Tony Sherwill of Bowls Australia - started changing the image of the sport.

[PD Scott]

Impossible, if you walk barefoot in Australia you'll surely be killed in some gruesome fashion.

[C. Anacreon]

Especially if you haven't played Knifey-Spoony before.

[Pathogen]

Funnel spiders are a creature powered by pure vindictive hate...

[rts]

Canada lags in business investment, says C.D. Howe report

The report raises the issue of "dead money" ? the $626 billion in cash holdings that Statistics Canada reported among private companies in the first quarter of 2014.

It almost had me shouting "Hoarders!", but then...

The C.D. Howe report recommends policy-makers take steps to encourage investment spending to reverse the trend. Among its ideas: Encourage private-sector financing of infrastructure projects. Reduce sales taxes and land-transfer and business-property taxes. Reduce taxes on profit from innovation. Create an investment-friendly royalty regime in oil and gas.

Oh, taxing investment causes less investment. Who knew?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Canada just...lags.

We're the best mediocre, middle-sized country on the planet.

Splendid mediocrity.

But we talk as if we're all that.

[Cytotoxic]

We could be a lot worse. Our ease of paying business tax is #8 in the world. America is # 63 according to PriceWaterCooper.

[WDATPDIM!?]

What is "ease of paying business tax"?

[Corning]

Ever do a US tax return?

Imagine if it was easier.

[Isaac Bartram]

The C.D. Howe report recommends policy-makers take steps to encourage investment spending to reverse the trend. Among its ideas: Encourage private-sector financing of infrastructure projects. Reduce sales taxes and land-transfer and business-property taxes. Reduce taxes on profit from innovation. Create an investment-friendly royalty regime in oil and gas.

Problem is, C.D. Howe was a major proponent of crony capitalism.

He is a major example of the problems that Americans have caused for Canada.

See also: Kieffer Sutherland's grandfather AKA "the greatest Canadian ever", father of Canadian Medicare, who learned everything he needed to know at the University of Chicago.

[MJGreen]

The sweet, sweet smell of marijuana is no longer grounds for searching cars, the state's high court ruled.

Who cares what a judge says? Judges aren't out on the front lines in this war!

(and you may want to note which state it is)

[Seamus]

Heh, heh. "High" court.

[jesse.in.mb]

God damn, Lebanon, stop being a dick and I'll eventually spend money there.

Men suspected by authorities of being homosexual are still being anally "tested" in Lebanon despite a ban on the practice issued by health officials, it has been reported.

The test involves forcefully inserting an egg-shaped metal object into the rectum, which a 2012 Human Rights Watch report said "constitutes degrading and humiliating treatment" in violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

According to the Lebanese Daily Star, however, a forensic doctor was hired in January by members of the police's "Moral Protection Bureau" to determine the sexuality of five Lebanese and Syrian men accused of being gay.

Doctors from the Lebanese Order of Physicians have described the method of determining whether or not a man is gay as useless and akin to "torture".

Apparently the procedure has been banned since they did it to 35 suspects arrested in 2012.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Isn't that what they did to Oscar Wilde?

[Warty]

How is this test supposed to work?

"We stuck things in his ass! Only homos get things stuck in their asses! He's a homo!"

[Episiarch]

I have a pretty strong feeling that it works for the tester, not the testee, if you know what I mean. Think who would gravitate to this "job".

[Warty]

"This fag's ass made my dick hard when I fucked it! Only fags' asses do that! He's a fag!"

I suspect I'm not too far off.

[waffles]

Well it makes a lot more sense in Lebanese.

[Mad Scientist]

None of these tells me whether the accused could float after the procedure.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Men suspected by authorities of being homosexual are still being anally "tested"

What sort of person would gravitate towards that job, I wonder?

[jesse.in.mb]

To get out of Turkish military service you have to provide pictures of yourself being penetrated by another dude and make sure your face is clearly visible. The pictures are filed some place and nobody is sure what happens to them.

I guarantee those things are in some bureaucrat's house and so cum-stained as to be unrecognizable.

[Virginian]

So when does your flight leave?

[jesse.in.mb]

What, to go to Ankara, raid a bureaucrat's home and steal the greatest trove of government-owned, self-produced gay porn in existence?

Not sure, but flights to Istanbul are relatively cheap for the winter. Maybe then?

[Virginian]

I was thinking more like you hire yourself out for those young Turks who want to avoid the army.

[jesse.in.mb]

They do say you should find something you love to do and make a career out of it, right?

[Swiss Servator, Alles Klar]

Jeebus, jesse - you do make me laugh!

[WDATPDIM!?]

"To get out of Turkish military service you have to provide pictures of yourself being penetrated by another dude and make sure your face is clearly visible."

What position does a dude have to be in so that the photo clearly shows both his face and his anus with a dick in it? Sounds like he'd have to do a Linda Blair.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Lebanon knows it's not gay if you top.

[Tonio]

Damn you, Fist.

[Tonio]

Wow, that's some serious ignorance, there. First, snarky stereotypes aside, not all gay men are even into anal. Of those that are there are many who give but don't take. I realize that the latter group are probably not considered gay by the religious nuts.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Those "religious nuts" figured out what my fraternity knew since the first pledge class.

[jesse.in.mb]

Or every guy who ever picked up a down-on-his-luck youth on the cheap from a truck stop before 1969?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Why must you make everything sordid?

[jesse.in.mb]

It's my comfort zone?

[Cytotoxic]

Do I even want to know?

[Tonio]

What is it you so desperately wish not to know, Cyto?

[Cytotoxic]

What you're frat figured out. Or why anyone would ever join a frat.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's only gay if you bottom, of course. Or if there's no alcohol involved.

[Christophe]

As long as the taker is prepubescent, of course.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

He turned me into a poof

[Brandon]

Did you get better?

[Suthenboy]

So, in order to find homosexuals, which these guys most certainly aren't, they have to hold guys down and poke things up their ass?

I get it.

[Aloysious]

In pictures: Vietnam-China rig row

A Chinese coastguard vessel (L) uses water cannon on a Vietnamese Sea Guard ship on the South China Sea near the Paracels islands, in this handout photo taken on 4 May, 2014 and released by Vietnam Marine Guard on 8 May, 2014 Government ships from the two nations then collided on multiple occasions and exchanged water cannon fire amid efforts by Vietnam to block the installation of the rig.

I like this version of warfare. Fewer casualties.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It's like Whale Wars, but with a navy.

[Ted S.]

Save a whale, harpoon a Jap

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The party of tolerance.

[Corning]

Why the fucking fucking fuck hell is that cunt holding up a sign in English?

Yeah sure tell the Americans about the injustice China is perpetrating on fucking Vietnam cuz they can and will do something about it.

The only way it could have been more idiotic is if it was written in French.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Slate: Marco Rubio Introduces an Awesome Bill That Could Solve the Student Loan Crisis

Now the bad news: One of the sponsors is Florida Sen. Marco Rubio. And as Jonathan Chait once so succinctly put it, "Everything Rubio touches has turned to shit."

?

...the Dynamic Repayment Act...All federal loan borrowers would be enrolled in an income-based program where they paid 10 percent of their earnings each month, with a $10,000 annual exemption. Meanwhile, the government would collect the money directly from workers' paychecks, just like tax withholding. One potentially controversial part: It would forgive up to $57,500 worth of loans after 20 years, but anything above that amount wouldn't be forgiven for 30 years.

That sounds horrible.

[Palin's Buttplug]

It has already turned to shit.

[Sevo]

8%, turd.

[Clich? Bandit]

remind me of the horrible comment that started the 8% please. I hath drank those cells away.

[Sevo]

Turd posted a link regarding how many people really didn't hate O-care. Until you got near the bottom where it was noted that all of 8% were in favor of keeping it the way it was.
He hadn't bothered to read his own damn link.

[Swiss Servator, Alles Klar]

He only read 8% of it.

[Auric Demonocles]

First off that doesn't solve the issue at all. It just makes it worse and shifts the costs to people who had nothing to do with getting an overly expensive degree.

Second, it shouldn't matter who the sponsor is.

[Christophe]

Republican offers free money to Millenials, is still a Republican.

[Stormy Dragon]

Damn, I'm about three months away from finally paying off my student loan, and now I have to pay off everyone else's too?

[Mickey Rat]

Yes, it is called being a sucke...er, responsible citizen.

[Ted S.]

Does it incentivize people to work for the government?

[ant1sthenes]

The only way to really fix things is to ensure that the government's losses come straight out of universities' asses. They're the ones taking people for hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education that will never pay for itself.

[Drake]

Pre-Tax?

[WDATPDIM!?]

It just sounds like an expanded version of IBR.

[Warty]

You wanted some videos of Russians looting the crash site? Well, today is your lucky day.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I wish I hadn't seen that. Some of the victims' bodies are surprisingly intact, though.

[Corning]

Thank you for the warning.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Gotta hand it to them, they got the propaganda machine cranking fast.

[PD Scott]

I don't buy the Putin plane thing, unless it was a false flag operation. Shooting down foreign leaders is a good way to start a full scale war.

[OldMexican]

Gay couples in Monroe County, Florida, can start getting hitched next Tuesday

Getting hitched

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Remember Manuel Noriega? He's served his prison sentence in the United States, then a sentence in France, now he's serving a sentence in Panama.

He's also suing over a video game which uses him as a character, without his consent.

(from courthousenews.com)

http://bit.ly/UdC5xL

[Aloysious]

#BBCtrending: The rise of Hitler hashtags

#HitlerWasRight, #HitlerDidNothingWrong, and - most recently - #IfHitlerWasAlive have all been doing the rounds on Twitter and Facebook over the past few days.

...snip

That people make often entirely spurious comparisons to Hitler should not come as a surprise, says Mike Godwin, who back in 1990 researched what is known as Godwins Law of Nazi Analogies. In its simplest form, Godwins Law states that in any online discussion or forum, someone will - if it's left there long enough - eventually bring up Hitler or the Nazis. "It's the model of evil," in the Western world he says. If you want to escalate a debate "this is where you'll go".

[Notorious G.K.C.]

You know who else lowered the quality of public debate with demagogic slogans?

[Aloysious]

Joe Biden?

[Tim]

That guy from that thing?

[Brandon]

Rachel Maddow?

[Pathogen]

Howard Dean?

[Corning]

Janeane Garofalo?

[Carl is dead inside]

A crop of Hitler-related hashtags has emerged on social media in the past week or so - what and who is behind this?

Quit your job, Cordelia Hebblethwaite (a very British name, I might add). It's transparently 4chan /b/tards and /pol/iticians.

[PapayaSF]

That's not just a very British name, it's like something out of P.G. Wodehouse.

[Corning]

Or Harry Potter.

[Warty]

A kid is good at a sport. Comments ensue.

AdventurerVA
7/16/2014 10:41 PM EDT
That kid is going to be crippled by the time he's 20. That's way too much weight for a developing body to lift.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Quick name all the US Olympic medalists in weightlifting and what they're doing now . . .

Ok, now imagine this kid devoted his time either to an intellectual pursuit, a small business of his own, or a sport where he could get a scholarship and even possibly have a lucrative pro career.

Says the guy spending his time commenting at WaPo.

[Virginian]

lol so much saltiness.

[Tim]

We need more Bort license plates in the Gift Shop. Repeat, we are sold out of Bort license plates.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Are you talking to me?

[Palin's Buttplug]

"Ku Klux Klan Uses Candy to Recruit in S. Carolina"

http://www.boston.com/news/nat.....story.html

The KKK fliers read "Save Our Land, Join the Klan," and include a Klan hotline number, North Carolina mailing address, and the web address for the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

[OldMexican]

"Ku Klux Klan Uses Candy to Recruit in S. Carolina"

Join the Klan, get cavities?

[Tim]

Well, you're probably too young to remember the short lived "Itchy & Scratchy and Friends Hour". They had to come up with some friends. There's Disgruntled Goat, Uncle Ant, Klu Klux Clam . . .

[Notorious G.K.C.]

They removed all the brown M&Ms; from the packet.

[Trouser-Pod]

/golf clap

[WDATPDIM!?]

Do they really need "White" in the name?

[Aloysious]

Chinese foot binding

Farrell writes: "Although considered fairly barbaric, it was a tradition that enabled women to find a suitable partner. Matchmakers or mothers-in-law required their son's betrothed to have bound feet as a sign that she would be a good wife (she would be subservient and without complaint)."

I'm almost tempted to troll Jezebel with this. Almost.

[Hyperion]

The downing?quite possibly deliberate

I'm going out on a limb and saying there is a 99.9999% chance that the Pro-Russian separatist rebels did this. And it's not going to turn out to be a good thing for them.

[Suthenboy]

Bad for Putin as well as he probably gave them the missile.

[Tim]

Remind me never to book a flight on Malaysian Air.

[jesse.in.mb]

Psht. Bookmark their deals page.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It's a fire sale.

Too soon?

[jesse.in.mb]

Too late.

[C. Anacreon]

The One-Way packages are a steal.

[Bobarian]

Especially if you get them on credit.

[Apatheist ?_??]

I've flown Malaysian Air numerous times with no issue. The airline in the region that always terrified me was Garuda. Their pilots seemed incapable of sticking a landing.

[Pro Libertate]

You know, I flew on Malaysia Air between Tokyo and KL, and it was great. The service was outstanding, the food was decent, the whole nine yards. I think it sucks that they're going through this, because it doesn't appear that either incident is because of anything the airline did.

[ant1sthenes]

Apart from the flying through a warzone where planes are being shot out of the air, you mean.

[Pro Libertate]

Yes, except for that.

[Sevo]

According to a map (somewhere), the plane was far outside any restricted zone.

[Sevo]

Can't find the map, but:
"The Federal Aviation Administration warned U.S. air carriers not to fly in a region about 200 miles away from where Malaysian crash occurred in Ukraine."
http://time.com/3001874/ukrain.....-airspace/
Looks like they presumed 200 miles was a decent safety factor.

[MJGreen]

Charting a course over a war zone is not up to the airline?

[Pathogen]

It was my understanding that flight paths were proprietary to airlines..

[Virginian]

on Malaysian Air.

[GILMORE]

"The Justice Department's probe of the IRS email scandal draws arched eyebrows from GOP lawmakers who consider it less than sincere."

Someone commenting on that piece made the point that, 'there is no there's no need for an independent Special Prosecutor to investigate the IRS because =

"There is no evidence of any White House involvement or even political motivations by IRS employees."

Let me understand = *we shouldn't investigate if there's any white house involvement, because there's no *evidence* of white house involvement....before there's been any investigation..."

what's that called again?

[tarran]

That's a bona fide example of begging the question.

[GILMORE]

right.

this person continues to make the same claim at various points in whatever aspect of the case is being discussed.

'losing the emails was not destruction of evidence because there was no actual crime being investigated', etc.

In the endless, "Idiots? or Liars?" debate, I continue to believe 'both' - that in most cases they know that their own argument is specious, but rhetorically compelling; and that *if it sounds good*, its good enough to run with, because most people don't think all that hard about these sorts of things anyway. When 'the other person' challenges this shallow POV, it makes them the 'antagonist' in the rhetorical game, and simply reinforces the idea that The Bad Guys are making a Big Deal out of a Non-Scandal...which is a Non Scandal because We're Not Scandalized.

QED

Someone once said that liberals are fundamentally materialists, and that would support this idea that there is little concern for the "truth" in anything, so much as what version of reality is most *useful* at any given moment is what is best.

[Bobarian]

That's a bona fide example of begging buggering the question[er].

ftfy

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Confederate Plate Ban in Texas Struck Down

" (CN) - Texas violates free-speech rights in refusing to issue specialty license plates with the Confederate battle flag, the 5th Circuit ruled.

"The Texas division of the Sons of Confederate Veterans sued members of the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles Board in Austin three years ago after its application for a specialty license plate was deemed potentially offensive."

http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/07/15/69514.htm

[PD Scott]

We've got 'em in GA. Had 'em for years.

For July 4th I attended a parade (a steam engine/vintage car parade) in Cumming, GA. After the local sheriffs paraded the colors some SCVers marched, far better fed than almost any actual Confederate soldier ever was. They fired their rifles in the air by my group, a good preview of the deafening blasts that every damn steam engine operator felt compelled to blow.

[C. Anacreon]

I would think a town named Cumming would be considered potentially offensive itself.

[Rich]

"potentially offensive"

Sheesh, better do away with *all* license plates everything.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Atheist group (Freedom From Religion Foundation) wants freedom to distribute their literature at Orange Cunty, Florida schools, including * An X-Rated Book: Sex & Obscenity In The Bible.* The school system's initial unwillingness to allow the latter book led to a lawsuit, but now that the schools changed their policy to allow the book the judge dismissed the suit as moot.

http://www.christianpost.com/n.....on-123417/

[Pro Libertate]

Where's Orange Cunty? Is it near Nipples?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Thanks to my mistake, you're going to misconscrew my remarks.

[Karl Hungus]

Connecticut state trooper pleads guilty to stealing cash and jewelry from a dying motorist at the scene of an accident:

http://news.yahoo.com/trooper-.....24404.html

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

As HM pointed out in another thread, it was an Alford plea. Complete bullshit.

[Karl Hungus]

Something about "I don't admit my guilt, but I acknowledge that you have me by the nuts," right?

It is a shame that he's not facing the same sentence that you or I would if we stripped a dying motorist of his valuables, but I'm still grateful it wasn't somehow swept under the rug.

[Episiarch]

"I totally didn't prematurely graverob that guy like it looks like I did on the tape, but since that's exactly what it looks like on the tape, I plead guilty. Alford me, bitches!"

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He was looking at 10 years if he went to trial, so he went Alford and got a tiny fraction of that. The prosecutor should have rejected the plea. They have his crime on video and found the bloody money under his seat.

[Karl Hungus]

The prosecutor should have rejected the plea.

Professional courtesy, maybe?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

That was my first thought. The trial would have taken a few hours, and was a guaranteed conviction. And the jury would have gone for the max penalty given that this scumbag was stealing from a dying man who needed help.

There is no reason to allow an Alford here.

[Whahappan?]

Merely proof of the utter corruption of our legal system, from top to bottom, from beginning to end.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

Prosecutors say Huntsman, a 19-year veteran of the state police, was caught on video from his cruiser's dashboard camera stealing a gold chain and $3,700 from 49-year-old John Scalesse as the motorcyclist lay dying on Sept. 22, 2012.

That's it; I give.

I'll stop reading books and start committing crimes if the state agrees to give me a six-figure salary. EZ PZ.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I bet you didn't know this!

"Unenforceable ban on atheists holding public office still on the books in 8 states"

http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....ic-office/

[Ted S.]

I did know it: somebody (probably EvH) posted it here a day or two ago.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I was being sarcastic - this story was reported several times before as an anti-SoCon thing, though these laws are unenforceable and generally date back a century or more.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

One wonders at the logic that thinks that a connection to social conservatism is disprove by the thing having a long tradition...

[Notorious G.K.C.]

One of the few instances of attempted enforcement was by a black neo-Confederate. That just screams "mainstream SoCon." 🙂

[Apatheist ?_??]

It's true that it's unenforceable and I don't lose sleep over it, but I kinda don't like that it's in our fucking Constitution here in Texas, right there in the Bill of Rights.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I agree it's offensive to have it in there - but it's just as ignored as the clause in the Texas constitution recognizing the authority of juries to judge the law:

Art. I, Sec. 8 - "...And in all indictments for libels, the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, *as in other cases*." (emphasis added)

But you don't hear prosecutors whining about it, because it isn't obeyed.

[Sevo]

Notorious G.K.C.|7.17.14 @ 5:25PM|#
"I bet you didn't know this!"

I've only posted that about ten or twelve times, usually right after you start a rant about how some bleevers are victimized.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That was actually my point.

I have also posted several links about the mistreatment of atheists - had you heard about Mubarak Bala before I posted that story?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

When I post the stories about mistreatment of atheists abroad, you suggest it's a sinister plot to cover up persecution of atheists at home; so I post some stories about atheists winning the right to pray at legislative meetings and distribute racy atheist books in schools - I'm really trying to cover the atheist-persecution beat.

[GILMORE]

Apropos of nothing - I want to have a baby child of my own, just so that I can provide them with THIS, and tell the upset people who chastise me for it, "oh, its because they're really trying to *cut back*"...

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'll loan you my baby for a small (large) fee.

[jesse.in.mb]

Just wait a month GILMORE, Pl?ya is coming up on a baby surplus.

[Mad Scientist]

It would almost be worth having a kid just do do that in public.

[Cytotoxic]

Please oh please Israel cleanse the Gaza Strip of Hamas and all the other savage groups like you should have in 2009.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Because the people who claim to be the representatives of the victims of the most notorious genocide in history resorting to genocide will really solve all of their problems, won't it?

[Lyle]

Umm, it wouldn't be genocide. Hamas are militants trying to destroy Israel. Every single one of them can be killed under the laws of war.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Yeah, and according to the Nazis all the Jews wanted to destroy the Germans too.

[Kreel Sarloo]

So there's no problem with "the Final Solution" by this logic.

[jesse.in.mb]

SLATE: Run, Elizabeth, Run! Why an Elizabeth Warren presidential bid would be good for all Americans.

Sudden bait!

Imagine there were a political movement that was against pablum in the public square, that promoted tough debates on pressing issues, that was suspicious of coronations, and cared about a presidential candidate's qualities as much as the ideas she would bring to office? This proud movement would engage all the right-thinking members of the citizenry, liberal and conservative. It would enliven the daily discourse and it would push Sen. Elizabeth Warren to run for president.

Hahaha, can't breathe...

If Warren joined the race, she would not win, but she would till the ground, putting grit and the smell of earth in the contest. She would energize the Democratic Party's liberal base, which would then stir up other Democrats who seek to moderate or contain that group. Warren would challenge the Democratic Party on issues like corporate power, income inequality, and entitlements.

Demanding more entitlements from the Democrats isn't "challenging them on entitlements" any more than screaming "chug chug chug" at a frat boy is "challenging" him to drink more.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Lord, they're starting early on fabricating another empty suit.

Unreal.

She's got the charisma of a paper clip and hardly has any enlightened ideas. Please.

[Cytotoxic]

Her poll numbers are also in the ground, especially amongst self-described liberals.

[Bobarian]

putting [...]the smell of earth in the contest.

News for ya, that ain't earth your smelling.

[WDATPDIM!?]

Future earth.

[PapayaSF]

Don't you know that Native Americans are closer to the Earth than us palefaces?

[Brandon]

and cared about a presidential candidate's qualities as much as the ideas she would bring to office

Zero equals zero.

[SugarFree]

The entire intellectual bankruptcy of the progressive movement can be summed up by the desperate attempts to hold this food co-op busybody up as a leading deep thinker.

[Pro Libertate]

We're all full on idiots in Washington. Sorry, but we have to get a non-idiot now for diversity reasons.

[Corning]

Unlike Hilary she would probably keep us out of World War 3.