Minimum Wage

More Minimum Wage Nonsense in New York

The latest dubious innovation in left-wing political economics.

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The latest innovation in left-wing political economics is legislation that would raise the minimum wage in New York State to $15 an hour—but only for a select group of employers unlucky enough to be targeted by politicians.

The bill's champion, New York State Senator Daniel Squadron, calls it the "Fair Wage Act." But it would be more accurately called the "Unfair Wage Act," because, rather than applying the $15 an hour rule to all employers or all employees, it picks and chooses some employers to saddle with the high wages.

Manufacturers are exempt. Non-profit organizations are exempt. Businesses with less than $50 million a year in gross revenue are exempt, though the law may cover them if they are subcontractors or franchises of the larger business. Squadron's own interns ("Internships are unpaid…be able to work at least three days per week, has strong writing, communicating and organizational skills") are, apparently, exempt, which might strike some as hypocritical.

All the exceptions allow Squadron, 34, a Democrat and Yale graduate who is a former aide to Senator Schumer, to convey the illusion that he's being reasonable. Squadron's press release announcing the bill spoke of requiring "those businesses that can most afford it to pay more." A New York Times news article quoted him as explaining, "These aren't those small businesses that are just barely getting by."

New York state's current minimum wage is $8 an hour. Squadron's $15 an hour proposal would be a hefty increase over even that, and it would be more than double the current $7.25 an hour federal minimum.

Extracting money from successful businesses is a variation on the New York Democratic tax strategy, which targets successful individuals for higher income tax rates. Just as the high tax rates intended to redistribute wealth have had the effect of encouraging moves to Florida or other lower-tax states, a higher minimum wage is likely to have its own unintended and adverse consequences.

Some small franchise operations—Subway sandwich outlets, for example—may close, leaving their employees jobless. Rather than getting a raise to $15 an hour, those now former employees will find their compensation cut to the amount of their unemployment benefits.

Some "barely getting by" mom and pop businesses may have their employees quit to go work at McDonald's or CVS, where entry-level jobs will all of a sudden pay $15 an hour because of Senator Squadron's mandate. If the small businesses raise their own wages to compete, Squadron's argument that his bill spares the little guys will be proven hollow. And if the small businesses don't raise their wages, how are they supposed to compete for talent or hold on to their trained employees?

Some employees may have been planning to go to school to improve their skills and training so that they could really earn a higher wage rather than just being given one by government order. They may now decide to skip that extra studying. If one can double one's pay and be paid a "living wage" without going to night school or completing that community college course, after all, why bother? 

Other businesses might pass the wage increases along to customers in the form of higher prices, or to shareholders—including New York's own vast public pension funds—in the former of lower dividends. 

The economics of the whole legislative effort are so flawed—the idea that one can nearly double the minimum wage for some businesses without creating perverse incentives, affecting the rest of the labor market, and eliminating some jobs and businesses—that one begins to suspect that it isn't about economics at all. The bill targets "formula retail stores" that, along with 11 or more other restaurants or stores, have "a standardized array of merchandise, a standardized façade, a standardized décor and color scheme, a uniform apparel, standardized signage, a trademark.

If the certain politicians in New York want to outlaw the fast food restaurants, convenience stores, chain pharmacies, or big-box retailers that so many of their constituents choose each day to patronize, let them try. They'd almost certainly fail.

Instead, Sen. Squadron and his allies are using selectively imposed wage mandates as a way of expressing their essentially cultural distaste for some businesses. It's proof that the wage-hikers don't believe their own story about higher wages helping businesses by reducing employee turnover. This is wage-regulation designed not so much as help for low-wage employees but as punishment for the owners of non-boutique retailers and non-gourmet restaurants: the wage front of the culture war.

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  1. I hope they don’t pay the schlubs in that picture more than $7.25. Jesus, buy a shirt with sleeves on it.

  2. From each according to his ability. To each according to his need. Hey, that would make a nice slogan. Some party ought to take that and use it.

    1. The modern version is:

      From each according to his wealth, to each, according to his student loan debt.

      1. The Chicago Way:

        From each according to his connections, to each according to his connections.

        1. That’s a mighty fine bizness you got there. Ita be a shame if somethin happened to it. Now, if you was to just contribute to da Senator’s re-election campaign, I’m sure he’d be willing to take care of his own, if you know what I mean.

      2. Why accumulate student loan debt when you can just clean toilets for the same wages? Economically you’d be better off just cleaning toilets. Of course, you may have to get a college degree and deal with debt, deadlines, office workers farting next to your cubicle and micro-managing bosses because toilet cleaner would be such a popular job.

  3. This is the nonsense that prompted me to attempt to teach people basic economics.

    They doubled down on ignorance and feelings instead.

    1. Feeling is easier than thinking.

  4. Seattle’s gonna get one. $15 minimum wage is where it’s at! Whining about ‘globalization’ is so 2000.

    1. “Whining about ‘globalization’ is so 2000.”

      Ditto medical care; someone ‘did something’, and presto! All fixed!

      1. “Issues” on the left are like watching a semi-retarded bee with ADHD…

        It just sort of buzzes from one thing to the other, spending only a little bit on each thing- but treating each thing like it’s the central issue facing our GENERATION, and then a few minutes later, buzzing onto the next thing.

  5. Hopefully, if adopted, they’ll include this little gem in the “Bring Your Business to New York!” ads I see almost daily.

    Fucking idiots.

    1. It’s the same idea. Bring the business WE approve of, put it where WE let you, have a payroll WE agree with, and maybe WE’LL approve you. They have no idea what economic or personal freedom can do.

    2. I think I see another Cuomo smackdown coming … maybe. Some statists are dumber than others.

      1. It does seem like Cuomo learned how to read in February. The conversation:
        Cuomo: “Hey ugh der, Blasio? I think more costing to people make some people move away…”
        Blasio: “ERP AACK MONEY BAD BAD EXCEPT MINE COMMUNISM GOOOOOD ACK YOU EVUL CAPITALISTS PROFITS EVUL Eerrrrgggg op”

  6. See, if you raise the cost of smoking by taxing tobacco, why people will buy fewer cigarettes.
    But if you raise the cost of labor, employers will HIRE MORE PEOPLE! MULTIPLIER!

    1. The logical fallacy of applying unquantifiable ‘multipliers’ is present in Keyenesian theory as well as in global warming theory. Lefties love multipliers… You take the math and then add in this thing called a ‘multiplier’ whose value is whatever number best supports your arguments. Multipliers allows them to factor in their emotions, of course they love them.

  7. Sen. Squadron is my state senator. He has annual community conventions. I went to the first one which Anthony Weiner showed up at. He was covered in dyes from an East Indian parade. That guy is a total freak. The convention is full of scary left-wing types. People calling for commercial rent control and a “living wage.” You can spend the entire time saying “Why do you want to do that?”

    http://www.nysenate.gov/webfor…..april-27th

  8. Sometimes man you jsut have to rol wtih ti.

    http://www.GotsDatAnon.tk

    1. I tried rolling with T.I. once. It didn’t end well.

  9. Trickle down fiat wages!

  10. Just think, though: There are probably hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of New Yorkers who actually think this bill is a good idea and are all for it. That’s chilling.

    1. Think how much debt those supporters have, too.

      This is why I’m proposing a debtor-voter law. Anyone with a FICO score below 750 is not allowed to vote in the current election nor hold public office.

  11. a former aide to Senator Schumer,

    That must be where he acquired his appalling idiocy.

    -jcr

  12. One thing for sure. In a country of 310 million people, it’s possible to look around and find outrages each and every day – especially true when one gets paid for doing so!

    Perhaps the bigger question is “what did you do, other than critique, today which made the world a better place and the US a better society?”.

    That’s a lot harder…

    1. “Perhaps the bigger question is “what did you do, other than critique, today which made the world a better place and the US a better society?”.”

      Easy. I worked for a living.

      1. Did you drive on public roads or fly on your libertarian carpet during your commute?

        1. My personal man servants escorted me on my throne of gold to my massive korporate building so I could swim in my money.

          Actually used the NYS thruway which is a private entity… and somehow always in the best condition unlike the crappy potholed rotting government roads that are underfunded so they can waste tax dollars on ridiculous boondoggles and an overtly massive police state.

          1. Don’t even get me started on those potholes. I have never driven on worse roads than the ones leading to/from NYC. And that’s on the Jersey and NY side.

    2. What did you do, other than critique, today which made the world a better place and the US a better society?

    3. I didn’t try to make anyone live the way I think they should or run their business the way I think they should.

      I expect the same.

      1. Great. Get out and vote.

        I NEVER expect everyone or anyone to do the same as I do, though.

    4. So in your world, you would prefer that government should proceed unchecked, and no press or opinion writers should ever challenge their proposals, because they are “not doing anything, other than critique”?

      Good luck with that.

      1. Hahahha…they’ll just decide that no one has standing to sue over it! Problem solved!

        1. Ooops, reply went to wrong comment. awesome.

      2. I would prefer that Billionaires like the Kochs who own this and myriad other sites not be able to create false astroturf and echo chambers with almost unlimited money – and use it to misinform and mislead….

        That way, we might hear actual and real voices as opposed to those opinions which were sold to the highest bidder.

        It’s hard to claim that folks like Dick Armey and Demint, who have been given many many millions of dollars after leaving government…by the Kochs and others with similar interests, are doing “the people’s work”….

        Whatever happened to “do as I do, not as I say”? That would seem a good way to lead – as opposed to buying media and only allowing certain voices on there.

        1. I don’t know who owns this site, but no one is telling me what to say. I never even heard of the Kochs until a year or so ago. I found this site because I agree with many, but not all, positions taken by the writers and contributors. If there weren’t people who agreed with the points of view, this website would look like Air America. Oh, but I reckon that makes it an echo chamber. And the guys who whine about Kochs etc always seem to have never heard the name Soros.

          1. The Kochs own this site along with the Cato institute, Americans for Prosperity and hundreds of others fronts. When they don’t outright own them, they finance them and prop them up.

            It’s recently be found out that the same folks are financing most “right wing hate radio” – and that said radio has quickly changed it’s tune (for or against tea party candidates or establishment GOP’ers) based on what the Kochs pay them…again, often through front orgs.

            If you think the people, as a whole, are not influenced by billions spent for beating the drums….then you are mistaken. Few people – in fact, almost none, are immune to group influence.

          2. The Masshole knows you to be a paid shill.

        2. No, goddammit. I fucking refuse to allow our resident trolls to resort to “Koch-shaming” on these threads. I cannot fucking take it.

          If you are so dialectically retarded that you cannot craft a cogent argument without humiliating yourself with this “but the KOCHSZ!!1!” poisoning-the-well, association fallacy bullshit then you can fuck right off. You can chant TEAM BLUE party dogma or spout on about your masturbatory fantasies involving Marx and Chairman Mao all day for all I care, but the next time you get a glimmer in your eye because you’ve found the perfect occasion to invoke the Kochtopus so as to remove the scales from the eyes of all us brainwashed anarchists, do us a favor and go fuck yourself instead.

          1. You bitch about bringing up the Koch Bros. (psst, they contribute a couple million dollars to buy, among other things, nick gillespie’s cool jacket) and then bring up Marx and Mao? Ever look in the mirror?

            1. I’ll go slow…

              Marx and Mao invented and implemented communism. They are rightly attacked in rebuttals of the philosophical origins and consequential implications of communism/socialism.

              The Koch brothers fund libertarian think-tanks. They are attacked for being rich and spending money, a fact which is wholly irrelevant in rebuttals of libertarian philosophical origins and consequential implications.

              It takes but a modicum of intelligence to make this distinction.

          2. Don’t sweat it. You know fools are desperate when they have to bring up the Kochs. They likely can’t understand why it doesn’t work here, when it works so well for the unthinking HuffPo/Media Matters/DailyKos types.
            Since there’s nothing effective you can do about it, take comfort that it tells everyone else what kind of tool they’re dealing with.

          3. Koch Brothers!

            Boosh!

            Racist!

            The training day was short at MMFA, they spent the rest of the afternoon getting an asskicking in the parking lot by SEIU brethren.

    5. I washed the dishes.

  13. How can this pass equal protection? The government is dividing employers, having different rules based on how much the government thinks they can afford to pay. You pay more, that other guy doesn’t. Oh that doesn’t leave any room for corruption!

    1. Hahahha…they’ll just decide that no one has standing to sue over it! Problem solved!

    2. To be perfectly honest, I doubt this would pass muster with the supreme court.

      You can’t pass laws that specifically target certain disfavored businesses.

      1. Oh, no, that’s not true. Most of what they do in terms of regulatory laws is target disfavored biz.

        It is, however, against NY’s constitution to enact discriminatory taxes on corporations.

  14. Let me guess: WalMart.

    [reads the article]

    Yep. It’s like they’re not even trying anymore.

    1. …And the big fast food franchises.

    2. Are you kidding? They haven’t been trying for a while now. There was one bill that forced big retailers to provide heath insurance. There were 4 firms that qualified. Guess how many already did that? And guess which one didn’t? Opps… the second question gave away the answer to the first.

  15. Wait, how the HELL do you get to be a member of the NY State SENATE at age *34*? This dude isn’t old enough to work at a minimum wage job, let alone decide what minimum wage should be!

    1. It’s STATE senate. That’s like one step above dogcatcher.

      1. Dog catcher is a legitimate activity.

      2. I think he sent out treats to voters from the local post office, personally.

        Said the semi-literate voter: “OOooh, I like sugar-free, fat-free, no cost candy People’s Eggs…I must vote for this guy. Not the ‘maybe we have to work’ guy. Less candy.”

  16. “Some “barely getting by” mom and pop businesses may have their employees quit to go unsuccessfully try to work at McDonald’s or CVS, where entry-level jobs will all of a sudden pay $15 an hour cease to exist

    FTFY

    1. It’s like they think NYC is an island with no bridges connecting it to other places with non-insane legislators.

      1. Yeah, I mean, have they not looked at the business stats for NY in the past…ten years?

        Making things cost more means more people will come here!

  17. Plus, they have to provide health benefits now.
    How does anything think that burdening employers with a 100% increase in the minimum wage AND mandatory health insurance isn’t going to reduce employment?

    1. because they will pass a law making it illegal to fire any employees with express written consent of the state Dept of Labor

      1. And then pass another law stating that if said business can no longer afford to pay its workers, taxpayers will be on the hook for incurred losses. No more going out of business.

  18. If this becomes law, expect to see the scope of exemptions shrink as time passes.

    First, only manufacturers which are “green” or “low emissions” will be exempt. Then, look for the Obamacare tie in–only businesses which provide insurance for their employees will be exempt. Finally, the gross revenue threshold can easily be lowered to minimize “evasion” or “gaming the system”. We can’t have that, you know.

  19. The minimum wage, even at $15/hr is long overdue.

    It’s still too low for NYC.

    1. You are so right. It has always worked before, everywhere it is tried, so it is long overdue. Why, the Venezuelans did it and they are going like gangbusters!

    2. What if the employee isn’t providing $15/hr value?

    3. Let me “cut” in for a second. Hell we should just raise the Minimum Wage to 30$ hr. Than we wont have any working poor…..right…..right?????

    4. I know you guys don’t like minimum wage, public healthcare, public pensions, public schools, the government, taxes, etc.

      But please, keep telling the public of your position. It’s going over lovely.

      1. Alice Bowie|4.21.14 @ 8:07PM|#
        …”But please, keep telling the public of your position. It’s going over lovely.”

        Yeah, Alice, keep telling people about free shit; it’s doing wonderfully:
        “French Jobless Rate Surges Under Hollande’s Socialists”
        http://www.breitbart.com/Big-P…..Socialists

        But it won’t happen in NY because fucking idiots like you say so.

        1. Don’t mind me Sevo, it’s night time.

          But at some point, Labor will become obsolete. Machines will maintain and build machines. I don’t think it’s that far away.

          We are seeing today the impact of excess people. Many don’t want to work and are ok with the Skim of the HAVEs. But many people want to be productive and have to settle for changing bedpans. Either way, we’re going to have to do something with 300,000,000 people. And, the libertarian way won’t work unless you start killing people.

          1. It wasn’t libertarians who said “Arbeit macht frei”.

            1. Libertarians don’t say “Work shall set you free?” I used Google Translate :

              Actually, I went to Dachau in the late 90s.

              1. Actually, I went to Dachau in the late 90s.

                Must have taken them forever to clean up the cum stains.

            2. Actually, in some ways it was!

              That is, since every man is an island and should be able to stand or fall on their own two feet, those with disabilities should not, in a libertarian view, be paid for with the tax money of others.

              Also, it’s worth noting that current libertarians are quite far to the right – although they make claims to not being so, and our friend with the camps was also in that very far right thing….

              Lastly, the writer of Fiction who created the modern “libertarian” movement was largely influenced by being against the same thing that the “camp dude” was against – that being Bolshevism, etc.

              I’m not claiming these things are the same – but they are not as far apart as you mention. Bullies with guns in Nevada are being cheered as “Patriots” here on this site – just as bullies with guns there were being cheered for lawbreaking (or making their own laws) there.

              1. our friend with the camps was also in that very far right thing….

                That whole “socialist” part of national socialism just never seems to register.

                Universal education, universal health care, universal jobs, universal transportation… sounds like you’ve got a lot more in common with that far-right-wing zealot than most libertarians, sport.

              2. Craig, go fuck yourself. You are a liar who resorts to smears, ad homonyms and innuendo because you have no honest answer to those who believe in human liberty.

                1. *hominems, even — and you can still go fuck yourself

              3. “Actually, in some ways it was!”
                Nope, not even close.

                “That is, since every man is an island and should be able to stand or fall on their own two feet,”

                Not what libertarianism says. It only says that they shouldn’t stand on the taxpayers.

                ” those with disabilities should not, in a libertarian view, be paid for with the tax money of others.”
                Which is very different from saying that those with disabilities should be gassed.

                “Also, it’s worth noting that current libertarians are quite far to the right – although they make claims to not being so, and our friend with the camps was also in that very far right thing…”
                No actually it’s not worth noting that since the label “right” doesn’t actually mean anything.

                “Lastly, the writer of Fiction who created the modern “libertarian” movement was largely influenced by being against the same thing that the “camp dude” was against – that being Bolshevism, etc.”
                You mean Alice Rosembaum was against the same thing that Hitler was against. Ya wanna rethink that a bit?

                “I’m not claiming these things are the same – but they are not as far apart as you mention. ”
                Name a way in which libertarians are more like fascists than you.

                “Bullies with guns in Nevada are being cheered as “Patriots” here on this site”
                Actually the bullies were the ones you cheered, the government.

              4. Hitler is number 3 in mass killings. Want to guess which way number 2 and 1 leaned?

                Hint: It’s not to the right.

          2. So when the machines rise up and slaughter their masters and the human poulation is reduced to a fraction of itself, then the “Libertarian Way” can begin. Just gotta ride out the storm.

            1. That was good !!!

              Every time I bring up this point of Labor becoming obsolete, people keep bringing up the Terminator.

          3. “And, the libertarian way won’t work unless you start killing people.”

            Uh, no, libert’ism *allows* people to live their lives, unlike the alternative you and your sleazy buds prefer:
            “Communist Body Count: 149,469,610. The marxist system does not view the human creature as a divine creation but rather as a consumer, an empty stomach that needs fed.”
            (won’t allow the link)

            Pretty sure he’s low on that.

          4. “But at some point, Labor will become obsolete. Machines will maintain and build machines. I don’t think it’s that far away.”

            How is that at all relevant to the proposed minimum wage hike in NYC?

            1. I just went off on a tangent. It’s nighttime.

              1. And you’re an abject retard, of course.

                Utopian communism will work as soon as we enter the post-scarcity age!

                I wouldn’t hold my breath for that, but I sure hope you will.

                1. The funny thing is, the post-scarcity age would require an abundance of labor, i.e., labor supply drastically outweighing demand, or being “obsolete” as they say.

                  Yet that’s their greatest fear: what happens when we don’t need labor?

                  They don’t understand how efficiency works. Being able to do more with less labor means being able to feed, clothe, and house many more people at cheaper prices with the same labor you were using before. That pretty much explains all human advancement.

                  You don’t have to find something for 300,000,000 people to do. They find it themselves. They always had. People have been making these silly arguments ever since Ford and the assembly line: when will the machines make labor so worthless that we can’t afford cars? As if demand says nothing about price, and as if labor reduction doesn’t enable lower prices. Yet every leftist who can rub enough brain cells together to pose the question without being able to come up with an answer immediately appeals to ignorance and declares markets refuted. As if no one’s ever answered the question before. But, to them, it might as well never be answered. They can’t understand the answer.

            2. The higher the cost of labor, the faster the transition to mechanized/automated labor. See: Detroit.

          5. Haha yes! The technophobia bears it’s all to usual head! I love it! The technophobe is a majestically nonsensical beast that defies logic and refuses to learn from the mistakes of past technophobes that were laughed out of existence. The technophobe will surely respond “That may have been all very well in the past; but today conditions are fundamentally different; and now we simply cannot afford to develop any more labor-saving machinery.” That was said by one technophobe Eleanor Roosevelt in 1945. Thank goodness we haven’t seen any technological advances since that date or else think of the labor force consequences!!

      2. Alright you got me. Were gonna “gut” poverty by raising the minimum wage to 100$ hr. More government spending, that’ll fix our problems.

    5. “The minimum wage, even at $15/hr is long overdue.

      It’s still too low for NYC.”

      I basically agree with this for two reasons:

      First, I’d much, much rather see localities or states raise their minimum wages than see a Federal minimum wage increase. We live in a diverse and very large country and different areas have different prevailing wages. A $15 minimum wage in NYC is far less likely to cause economic disruption than a $10.10 minimum wage in Mississippi. If these kind of local increases reduce the political pressure for a national minimum wage increase, that’s a net win for the country.

      Second, It will invariably push some jobs out of the North East into other parts of the country. And that’s a win for the rest of us. It might not be the best thing for their economy, but it’s certainly their decision.

      1. Many jobs are moving out of NYC to places like Charlotte and Tampa and Houston. But it’s not the minimum wages.

        It’s actually the $150k to $350k range.

        At the company I work at, all of us in Technology will be gone by 2018 according to the CEO.

        1. Alice Bowie|4.21.14 @ 8:42PM|#
          “Many jobs are moving out of NYC to places like Charlotte and Tampa and Houston. But it’s not the minimum wages.”

          In your company, it may well be the other regulations and the high living costs caused by such things as the M/W.
          Regardless, the M/W will chase jobs out of the there as it is elsewhere.

          1. No, it’s greed. Our company has shown profits and still, mo money mo money mo money.

            I know the people doing the move.

            I don’t know if it will work as Quant/Math/Finance programmers that are familiar with the various trading products are hard to find in the South.

            I don’t know if the plan will work.

            All I know is that I’ll be leaving soon.

            1. Our company has shown profits and still, mo money mo money mo money.

              As long as there’s 1 spare buck for the shareholders to split, they should stay exactly where they are under whatever oppressive regulatory burdens exist.

              It’s amazing that your desire for mo money mo money mo money at the expense of the shareholders is never greed though…

              1. “It’s amazing that your desire for mo money mo money mo money at the expense of the shareholders is never greed though…”

                One piece of information that’s missing here is the source of retirement funds.
                Most all these jack-off lefties have 401s and if they ever read the reports from Pricewaterhouse, they’d see that THEY are the stockholders!
                Oh, well, in THAT case…!

            2. does that mean you didn’t ask for mo money at your last review?

            3. Alice Bowie:

              I don’t know if it will work as Quant/Math/Finance programmers that are familiar with the various trading products are hard to find in the South.

              You are aware that companies can hire talent and relocate them, aren’t you?

              If you’re worried, let me assure you that, if the money and the deal is right enough, you can hire the talent you want to work for you in the South (TM).

              After all, you do manage 60+ people, including software developers, quants, etc. I would think you would know this.

              It makes it hard to tell, when you talk out of your ass so frequently. For example, not being able to imagine any one else in your field relocating to the exact same place you’re going.

  20. It’s still too low for NYC.

    If you can’t earn $15/hr in NYC on your own merit, perhaps you should move to Rochester.

    1. I think I make $138 per hour and that includes 401k matching but no other benefits.

      I can’t afford to live in NYC with two kids.

      Rent alone would run $4800 to $5200 in District 1. And if you don’t live there, where the public schools are good, tuition is only $40k per kid.

      1. And I’m sure this is a result of the libertarians running the city.

        1. It’s the result of the free market.

          I can’t believe how many rich people live and own in NYC.

          1. Alice Bowie|4.21.14 @ 8:36PM|#
            “It’s the result of the free market.”

            It’s been obvious for quite a while that you’re stupid, but not THAT stupid!

            1. Sevo,

              During the Real Estate Meltdown, every time condos/coops dropped 2%, all sorts of foreign interests would come in a gobble it up.

              There are so so many millionaires that a small basket of strawberries is $12.

              I went to McDonalds with my wife and two daughters and it was $27 and that was two happy meals and the wife and i shared a bottle of water and got to Club house sandwiches (not the meal…sandwich only).

              1. Alice Bowie|4.21.14 @ 8:45PM|#
                “Sevo,
                During the Real Estate Meltdown, every time condos/coops dropped 2%, all sorts of foreign interests would come in a gobble it up.”

                Yeah, Alice, tell me about how rent control and building restrictions are “free market”.

                1. Let me tell you Sevo, that 450 sqft $2,500/month apartment IS WITH RENT CONTROL in some places.

                  1. Alice Bowie|4.21.14 @ 8:52PM|#
                    “Let me tell you Sevo, that 450 sqft $2,500/month apartment IS WITH RENT CONTROL in some places.”

                    So you admit there’s not free market?

                    1. Checkmate !!!

                  2. There are so many inaccuracies in your posts, that it was difficult to choose one to reply to.

                    It is rent stabilization, not rent control, that covers most NYC apartments, over 1 million. Any apartment that reaches 2500 is no longer covered. Rent Control is very limited, to apartments people lived in continuously since 1971, and which qualified at the time, pre-1960 builds.

                    You could live in the outer boroughs and find a 2 bedroom apartment for 2,500 or less and send your children to parochial school for $5,000 a year. Oh, and district 1 is no longer a zoned school area, so it doesn’t matter where you live, put your name in the lottery.

                    The NY minimum wage is 8.00 per hour and I seriously doubt McDonald’s is paying more to one franchise’s workers. If so, they missed the notice when rioting/protesting for the 15.00 minimum recently.

                    If you are paying 12 for a pint of strawberries, you are an imbecile, as District 1, which you seem motivated to live in, covers Chinatown. Drag your ass out of the McDonald’s and walk around; you will find fresh, cheap food everywhere.

              2. That’s under 7 dollars per person. How the hell cheap do you expect it to be?! There’s always the dollar menu – and yes, that exists even in NYC.

                1. That’s what my wife said she’s going to order from.

              3. There are millionaires here in Austin. They pay a buck or so for a small basket of very fresh strawberries. And the non-millionaires can go buy a luxury 2,500 square foot house in the burbs, granite countertops and all that, for about $270K.

                I’m sure you’re thinking at this point that the solution is to have a high minimum wage in NYC to compensate for the high cost of living, and try not to think too hard about what happens to the people whose productivity is less than $15/hr.

                Also what you’re implying is, the people who are good at making money but bad at figuring out how to live well live in NYC.

              4. “I went to McDonalds with my wife and two daughters and it was $27 and that was two happy meals and the wife and i shared a bottle of water and got to Club house sandwiches (not the meal…sandwich only).”

                And you think that raising the minimum wage to $15/hour will fix that ?

                1. “And you think that raising the minimum wage to $15/hour will fix that ?”

                  You BET! That $27 will turn into $45 in a New York minute!

                2. No McDonalds worker in Manhattan makes $7/hr. They make between $12-$15.

                  My sister is a receptionist at a hospital and makes $25/hr.

                  1. Alice Bowie|4.21.14 @ 8:57PM|#

                    No McDonalds worker in Manhattan makes $7/hr. They make between $12-$15.

                    My sister is a receptionist at a hospital and makes $25/hr.

                    Then there is no need for a law raising the minimum wage to $15/hour ?

              5. There are so so many millionaires that a small basket of strawberries is $12.

                You can buy a pint of strawberries for $3 at any of the numerous sidewalk produce stands around the city. Surprise, surprise Alice makes up more nonsense to support his position.

            2. Unfortunately, you are being far too kind with her.

              1. Alice might consider the possibility that cost of living has less to do with what people are being paid and more to do with what they are producing.

                Heavy regulations discourages production and increases employment of paper-pushers. Paper pushers eat. Paper pushers occupy houses. Demand goes up but supply does not.

          2. Work more hours.

            Look, I know it’s hard to get the minimum wage raised politically.

            If your going to do this then go ahead and move it to $100 an hour so you won’t have to go through this all over again in a year or two.

            I should warn you though. That’s gonna make your $138/hour be more like $66 dollar an hour of buying power.

            1. Sure – that makes a lot of sense. At the same time, what we have to do is drop the biggest nukes we have on Russia, because – after all – there is no such thing as moderation and working through things gently.

              I made $5 an hour working in low-wage jobs in the deep south in 1975. That’s equiv. to $25 an hour today.

              Are you suggesting that they paid me way too much back then? It didn’t seem so – I was quite poor.

              Now imagine making 1/2 or 1/3 of what I did for the same type of labor. Think about it.

          3. Free Market ? In NYC ?

            I though you had rent control.

            How can this be ?

            1. Rent regulation doesn’t apply to buildings newer than some year, like 1960 or so.

              1. But it does apply to a large portion of rental property in NYC does it not ?

                And it is not “free market”.

                1. Yes, I just wanted to dispel any notion that it covers everything. It’s somewhere between half and two-thirds (I forget the exact figure).

            2. “Free Market ? In NYC ?
              I though you had rent control.
              How can this be ?”

              There are still two or three goods as yet un-regulated, so to idjits like Alice, that’s an untrammeled, devil-take-the-hindmost, robber-baron FREE MARKET!

          4. Alice Bowie:

            It’s the result of the free market.

            I can’t believe how many rich people live and own in NYC.

            OK, now you really are kidding me. This is either BS or willful ignorance.

            You claim to work in finance, and can’t believe how many rich people live and own in NYC… in finance?

            Since you claim to work in finance, you are aware of the terms “supply” and “demand”, right? There are factors in NYC that limit supply (some free market, some not). Which industry do you think is providing all of those rich people who demand living and owning in NYC, who can pay astronomical prices? Why, that would be your own industry (i.e., banking and finance), wouldn’t it? So, the demand that’s supporting prices at where they are is coming from finance and banking. Would you describe that industry as a “free market”?

            Since when does Too Big to Fail = free market?

            If you’re truly wondering how people can possibly afford to live and own in NYC, then you’re expecting us to believe that you’re completely ignorant of your own industry. Especially when you call it “free market”.

            You might as well say that real estate is expensive in Washington DC because of the free market. I mean, where could the demand be coming from? Crazy free markets!

            Sorry, but I have to call BS again. This is too much willful ignorance, otherwise. You might as well as me to believe that I have to explain to a real doctor that humans have four chambers in their hearts.

        1. Once I hooked up with my wife 12 years ago, I did. 1st to Jersey and finally to a town with excellent schools where you can buy a 3300 sqft home (10 years old) for only $400k. It takes 1hr 1/2 to get to work, but i’m ok with the commute.

          1. So problem solved. Why the hell are you complaining about the high cost of living in NYC if you’re not willing to make the trade-offs that the rest of us do?

            1. I actually didn’t complain. I merely stated a fact. Yes, I wish I could live there and if i was willing to work the 10-12hr days and move up to Director Level, I would be able to afford it.

              I’d rather live my life and see my kids and lovely wife.

              1. Alice , one post you are saying that workers at McDonalds should mahe $15 dollars an hour.

                The next you were complaining that McDonalds food for your family is too high.

                The next you are saying that you could make more than $138 dollars an hour if you would work harder, but you don’t want to.

                Then the rents are too high.

                Should we raise the minimum wage so that McDonalds will go up and rents will go up so that you can have something else to bitch about. ?

                How can we make you happy Alice ?

      2. There are good public schools outside Manhattan – some in Queens, or parts of Brooklyn – and the rents are nowhere near that high.

        Not that I understand what in hell your complaining about your perceived inability to live in the 2nd most expensive city in the country on what sounds like a very nice salary has to do with minimum wage.

        1. “Not that I understand what in hell your complaining about your perceived inability to live in the 2nd most expensive city in the country on what sounds like a very nice salary has to do with minimum wage.”

          Alice thinks hamburgers are entirely too cheap.

        2. You want to live in Forrest Hills and some other places. But it’s real hard to find an affordable place there as well. And, Queens is no Manhattan. Plus some people take over and hour to get to Wall St. from queens, it takes me 1hr 1/2 from the Suburbs.

          1. I want to win the lottery. Sadly, it hasn’t happened yet!

      3. I think I make $138 per hour and that includes 401k matching but no other benefits. I can’t afford to live in NYC with two kids.

        So, your solution to your poor choices about where you chose to work, resulting in what I presume is a long commute, coupled with an annoying propensity to bitch about making a decent living, is to screw over poor people by passing laws that drop their wage to $0?

        Apparently your job isn’t in teaching economics.

      4. $138/hr is only abt $275k/yr. $5k/mo rent is $60k/yr, still leaves you with over $200k.

        But I agree, if you can’t afford to live in NYC, then DON’T. I work in suburban DC but commute to Pennsylvania where you can get a mansion for $200k and I have three kids in private school for a total of $12k/yr.
        http://www.realtor.com/realest…..sby-2/pg-3

      5. Right. So because you can’t live on the upper east side, we should double minimum wage?
        As someone who is trying to get my 3 year old into a non-failing NYC public school, I understand your pain in that respect. The answer is not fewer options. It’s getting DeBlasio to stop pounding the alternatives.

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  22. The economics of the whole legislative effort are so flawed?the idea that one can nearly double the minimum wage for some businesses without creating perverse incentives, affecting the rest of the labor market, and eliminating some jobs and businesses?that one begins to suspect that it isn’t about economics at all.

    There is little, if anything in the government that works on any sound and proven economic theory or principle. It’s perverse incentives and faulty logic all the way down.

    1. “There is little, if anything in the government that works on any sound and proven economic theory or principle. It’s perverse incentives and faulty logic all the way down.”

      You got it; check:
      “corn ethanol is actually worse for the environment, that the overall production cycle stokes global warming even more than typical fuel, and that, in addition, it drives up world food prices, contributing to global hunger problems in the process. Also, it makes your gasoline less efficient. And yet this is something that we’ve repeatedly mandated and paid for.”
      https://reason.com/blog/2014/04…..-good-kind

      1. But but, the dear leaders told me that corn gas would save the planet and help the poor!

        Are you telling me…they lied? NOOOOOOOOO

        1. OOOOOOOOOOOOOO TEATHUGLICANSOOOOOO OOOOOOOOKOCHBROS NOOOOOOOOOOOOLIESNOOOOO

  23. I love you guys….good night.

    1. Goodnight Alice.

  24. Alice Bowie|4.21.14 @ 8:52PM|#
    “Let me tell you Sevo, that 450 sqft $2,500/month apartment IS WITH RENT CONTROL in some places.”

    Alice, I live in SF and we have rent control. I’ve lived in my house for quite a while now, and it’s in one of the more progressive areas of SF (it’s amusing). Within a half of the entire block, there are by actual count 16 units which were rentals and are now vacant, returned to one-family, TIC’d or cond’d. 16 units in less than one block.
    And AFAIK, every one of the owners is a dedicated lefty who really supports rent control (except maybe for themselves) and swears it really doesn’t reduce the rental stock.
    I smile, agree and collect jacked-up rents from my properties. Now, tell me about FREE MARKETS again.

    1. I own a 2700 sqft high ranch in the Suburbs of NY (in cash), a 10yo house in greenville South Carolina, and two apartments in Medellin Colombia.

      I know all about the free market.

      1. “I know all about the free market.”

        And you claim NYC RE is one?

        1. Can’t judge as I don’t know Alice Bowie or the situation, but this may be one of those “opposite” is the reality things?

          Maybe “free market” here means “I have some wealth and connections and greased some wheels to get sweet deals.” You know, like how the “free market” caused the 2008 crash?

          1. If I’m reading this correctly, you’re suggesting that Alice is a fool instead of a knave?

            1. Nuances are great, and yes 🙂

              1. He can be both.

      2. Try selling all of your properties and use the equity for a down payment on a co-op in Manhattan. If you earn $138/hour, 40 hours week x 50 weeks is $276,000. That makes you part of the 1%. New York is obscenely expensive, but you are not in a position to complain about it.

        1. Believe it or not, TROLLING aside, I agree with you people on many things.

          1. Hi Alice – trolling aside, I said I don’t know you or your situation.

            I’ve just always disdained the abuse of the term “free market” when it’s really “syndicalist socialism” at work. Maybe the glimmer of free marketeering in NY did happen for you – and awesome if it did, kudos! – but for many people, even us non-NYers (I’m from MI, a hotbed of progressive cronyism if there every was one, which I could go on about for hours) the market has been closed by corrupt satraps for a long time, usually under the auspices of “helping the people.”

            Sorry a little ranty there.

  25. Huh. I think it’s the olde trifecta here: legitimately ignorant, intentionally ignorant, or ill intentioned. If it’s the latter, then this is a way to drive out the small businesses and conglomerate the big ones with city government to have NYC basically run the show – and remember, there’s no term limits anymore thanks to Comrade Bloomberg. Perhaps First Citizen deBlasio will be permaMayor, for the People?

    Personally, I expect it’s a combination of all three.

    Also expect a lot of business to mover out of NYC in the next couple of years – and then NYC will try to do what California did in having five-year retroactive exit taxes.

    DeBlasio and his gang are either idiots or evil – and very very dangerous for NYC.

    However, maybe the US needs a new financial and media center? NYC is pretty haughty anyway. Maybe they should be the new Detroit. Seems like that’s what these idiots want…

    1. No, the term limits are in effect. There was an exception enacted for him.

  26. This article reenforces my claim that the minimum wage is not at all what it pretends to be, and that support for it is strangely strong in certain parts of the elite, and curiously lacking on ghetto streets.

    1. The first “progressive” movement was largely in cities, notably NYC (hear that Alice?)
      They closed down the tenements where those yucky immigrants were living 10-to-a-room in *squalor*!
      And made ’em live under the bridge approaches. SOOOOOOOO much better, doncha’ know!
      It’s all in the intent; if the proposed recipients gets screwed, well, they just don’t understand how much the proggies care!

      1. Yeah, intentions and hearts and passion are what really matters!

        And see, those poor people just didn’t get the difference – that when it’s for their own good, with love, for the people and mankind, living with rats and feces is so much better than having one of those icky, capitalist toilets.

      2. made ’em live under the bridge approaches

        The “lucky” ones got their “blighted” (not) neighborhood leveled and were stowed into ghetto high-rises.

        1. But hey, those murals were cool for a couple years. Really distracted from the bedbugs.

        2. “The “lucky” ones got their “blighted” (not) neighborhood leveled and were stowed into ghetto high-rises.”

          They’ve all been torn down, since it was a *cough* mistake.
          But THIS TIME we’ve got it RIGHT! “Smart Growth!”
          Yes, folks, we’ve made mistakes in the past but never again! Trust us! This time we solved all the problems!

          1. We’ll make them taller, wider, and full of green energy! The pipes will burst with the passion of the People! The windows will let in the cold air song of the proletariat! The shoddy lighting will help us see in the dark of Capitalism!

            Yes, comrades, sometimes a mistake is made for better futures for all the world’s united workers!

      3. Yeah, I’m sure history and stats show that’s EXACTLY how it happened…..

        Progressive movements also saved many a farmer. Have you ever heard of the TVA? Yep, another one of those good intentions.

        Do some reading and, afterwards, some reasoning. This beats creating your own rewritten history based on what someone told you:

        ” The Tennessee Valley had frequently flooded ruining farming land and destroying the hopes of the farmers who tried to work the land there. The result of the government’s initiative was the Tennessee Valley Authority.”

        1. Oh, good! Brain-dead asshole shows up!
          craiginmass|4.21.14 @ 11:02PM|#
          “Yeah, I’m sure history and stats show that’s EXACTLY how it happened…..”
          Well, unless you have data otherwise.

          “Progressive movements also saved many a farmer. Have you ever heard of the TVA? Yep, another one of those good intentions.
          Do some reading and, afterwards, some reasoning. This beats creating your own rewritten history based on what someone told you:
          ” The Tennessee Valley had frequently flooded ruining farming land and destroying the hopes of the farmers who tried to work the land there. The result of the government’s initiative was the Tennessee Valley Authority.”
          Oh, goody! Brain-dead provides assertion promoting brain-dead’s point absent any reference and therefore any reference to the costs involved.
          But then brain-dead would do that.

          1. All the evidence needed to prove the TVA was pure success is how much money they spent! In your faces, Koch-heads!

            1. And Lilienthal was just a wonderful guy, right?

  27. If I’m not mistaken, a wage of 15 dollars an hour moves you up in the tax bracket, meaning you have to pay more in income tax. FICA would already eat a chunk of the raise. The cost of living will correspondingly increase.

    It’s just never going to happen. If the SC loses their mind and allows this kind of selective raise to happen, the giant retailers (many of them progressive strongholds) send an army of lobbyists to Washington and let their displeasure known. Half of NYC will see their hours reduced or only find work as independent contractors.

    Freelance work is perilous business, you will almost certainly owe taxes. And you’ll get no benefits and job security.

    1. Yeah, I always think of the creeping tax too, and the Dems love nothing more.

      I remember when the minimum wage was raised a few years ago. I made a whopping extra 40 dollars a month because FICA etc., just took out a larger chunk. It really would’ve been better to just wait for the raises.

      But then, when the Dems come out “for the poor” they really mean “let’s f*ck over the poor for some more of their money, those stupid serfs.”

    2. “It’s just never going to happen”

      Your optimism is stronger than mine; read Alice’s twisted logic above.
      It’s going to make NY RE affordable, make Alice’s Mikey D meals cheap and, uh, grow hair on bald men.

      1. They really underestimate the stupidity/evil of these people. It will happen. Then NYC will become what Detroit is now! Win for the DeBlasio’s Benevolent People’s Democratic Happiness Republic of NYC!

        Unless…wait a minute…

        Do you think this is a nefarious plan by Rick Snyder to chase businesses out of NYC and into Detroit?

        1. “Do you think this is a nefarious plan by Rick Snyder to chase businesses out of NYC and into Detroit?”

          Naah. NY’s slogan is “We’re not as bad as Detroit!”, right?

          1. Hahaha! “Not For Long!” might be Detroit’s response to that.

            I wonder if cash strapped NYC will actually sell the Brooklyn Bridge in the future?

            Or: can we get Rob Ford to become a politician down here?

  28. This law makes perfect sense and will be great for the city. It’s a shame that more cities don’t follow suit and encourage young people to skip college/skills training and work at McD’s for artificially high wages (a place where they gain absolutely no useful skills). Who cares that the small business owners who buy these franchises will be taking the hit, and not McD’s itself? They can afford it.

    And if there is one city in the country that needs to be paying higher prices for food thanks to higher labor costs, it’s definitely NYC.

    1. this is almost as bad as Mac selling healthier food these days. What’s the world coming to?

      In other news, it appears the libertarians won. You can pay yourselves on the back now given the news today:

      (Headline is our Middle Class is no longer there)

      “The struggles of the poor in the United States are even starker than those of the middle class. A family at the 20th percentile of the income distribution in this country makes significantly less money than a similar family in Canada, Sweden, Norway, Finland or the Netherlands. Thirty-five years ago, the reverse was true.”

      1. craiginmass:

        In other news, it appears the libertarians won. You can pay yourselves on the back now given the news today:…
        “The struggles of the poor in the United States are even starker than those of the middle class. A family at the 20th percentile of the income distribution in this country makes significantly less money than a similar family in Canada, Sweden, Norway, Finland or the Netherlands. Thirty-five years ago, the reverse was true.”

        35 years ago, countries like Sweden were much more socialist then they are today.

        Also, the US was as lot less socialist than it is today.

        So, if things were better 35 years ago, then you’re making the libertarian argument for us.

        Wake. Up.

  29. ” Businesses with less than $50 million a year in gross revenue are exempt,…
    Squadron’s press release announcing the bill spoke of requiring “those businesses that can most afford it to pay more.” ”
    Because total revenue is the same as revenue per employee so any business making $50M or more in revenue obvious can afford higher wages. There’s absolutely no big businesses that work on large numbers of low-skilled workers.

    What pisses me off is that people hear this sort of feces and don’t get angry. I mean it’s an insult to the intelligence of anyone who can think through more than one step.

  30. As it is said, although there are some exemptions, most workers must be paid the minimum wage for all “hours worked” as required by state law. There is compelling academic research that increasing the minimum wage doesn’t dramatically impact employment levels. There should be created a new federal tax on profits made by minimum-wage employers to recover fully from them the direct and indirect costs. Meanwhile low-paid workers might apply for fast online cash loans for American consumers, which is very helpful in solving financial problems.

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