Charter Schools

Progressives Fight to Keep Poor Kids Trapped in Failing Schools

With NYC's per pupil spending at $20,000, why can't public schools afford pens?

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Annaly Lopez with her daughter Renee outside Success Academy ||| Credit: Jim Epstein
Credit: Jim Epstein

Annaly Lopez moved to Harlem two years ago when she and her young daughter Renee got a great deal on an apartment. But there was a catch: Her new building was zoned for P.S. 149, a notorious elementary school where 82 percent of third graders failed the state achievement tests and violence among students is common.

"Just because I live in the 'hood, why should I have to send my kid to a bad school?" says Lopez, a 26-year-old single mother who had Renee when she was 18.

Renee eventually won a spot at Success Academy, New York City's largest charter school network, which has been at the center of a raging debate over how to provide a quality education for poor kids. Critics claim that the rise of Success Academy and other charters is a plot by billionaire hedge fund managers to undermine public schools—an effort that will ultimately create a "two-tiered" system of haves and have-nots.

But as Annaly Lopez' story demonstrates, charters are chipping away at the two-tiered system that already exists by providing parents a way around the greatest injustice of urban education, which is that the quality of a child's school is often determined by where her parents can afford to live. Unlike traditional public schools, charters don't discriminate by address, so they provide opportunities for students like Renee to have the same high quality education as rich kids.

"I don't want Renee to follow in my footsteps," says Lopez, who dropped out of high school when she got pregnant. "Education makes you feel like you can do anything."

With Renee destined to enter the first grade at P.S. 149, Lopez starting a frantic search for alternatives. She applied to several charters—including Success Academy, which accepts about one in five applicants through a lottery—but at first nothing panned out. So she did what many New York City parents do to avoid sending their kids to their zoned schools: She lied about her address so Renee could enroll at P.S. 31, a school in the Bronx that Lopez describes as "mediocre but better than P.S. 149." Renee entered the first grade at P.S. 31, but struggled academically. In the meantime, Lopez continued applying to charter schools.

She'll never forget the day the package arrived. "It was a big orange envelope that said 'Success' and I knew right then, because if it were another rejection they wouldn't have sent me a big envelope," she says. "I started crying."

New York City's soaring real estate prices have made the top districts increasingly off limits to everyone but the well-to-do. And yet New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio (D), who in his inaugural speech promised "to put an end to the economic and social inequalities that threaten to unravel the city we love," opposes charter schools. In February, he blocked the opening of two new Success Academy branches (and the expansion of a third) by reversing a decision made by the prior administration to allow them to share buildings with existing public schools.

De Blasio's efforts backfired. There was a protest in Albany that drew widespread attention, a strong statement of support from Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-N.Y.), and then a state budget deal requiring the city to provide charters either space to operate or facilities funding. With his poll numbers plummeting—and after a private meeting with Bill Clinton, in which the former president warned that the issue was turning into a public

Renee's class picture |||

relations disaster for his administration—de Blasio softened his anti-charter rhetoric and promised to find homes for the displaced schools.

Charter school critics argue that when students like Renee are allowed to flee their district assignments, it hurts the kids left behind, whose parents often lack the knowledge or motivation to look outside the zone. They also complain that traditional schools are losing valuable classroom space as charters move into their buildings. (P.S. 149 shares its building with a branch of Success Academy.) Writing in The New York Times Magazine, journalist Andrea Gabor recently made the case that charter schools enroll and retain fewer kids with special needs than traditional public schools, warning that the city is in danger of allowing "policy makers to enshrine a two-tier system in which the neediest children are left behind."

The solution to the problem Gabor identifies is to free all New York City students from the shackles of residential assignment. Lousy schools are particularly damaging to students with special needs; as four states have demonstrated, kids with special needs would be much better off receiving vouchers to attend private school, which are better equipped to provide the aggressive interventions they need.

Charters have to compete for their students, so the most successful have done away with the bureaucratic procedures that get in the way of teaching. At P.S. 31, Renee developed a speech problem and was having difficulty learning to read. But Lopez couldn't convince the school to provide her with extra help. "Renee's teacher was excellent, but she was rehearsed to tell you what you can and cannot do," says Lopez.

At a charter school rally in Albany on March 4, 2014, Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) threw his support behind charter schools. |||

When she requested that Renee receive extra tutoring, the teacher told her that to qualify first she'd have to wait for her second report card to come out; if the report card indicated that Renee was in danger of being held back, then she'd be evaluated for an Individualized Education Program (I.E.P.), which is an official learning plan designed for struggling students. If Renee qualified for an I.E.P, only then would the school give her extra help. Lopez wanted to get her daughter outside tutoring before she fell behind any further. She pleaded with the administration to bend the rules, but her request was denied.

At Success Academy, Renee immediately got the extra help, and in general the staff is more responsive to her needs. Lopez could only communicate with Renee's teacher during school hours at P.S. 31. Now she's in touch with Renee's teacher by email and phone on evenings, weekends, and school breaks. A couple weeks ago, when Lopez was struggling to help Renee with a math problem, she called the teacher, who immediately emailed her a cell phone picture of the solution.

Renee at the rally for Success Academy in Albany on March 4, 2014 |||

"As soon as Renee walked in the door, someone was there to shake her hand. It just had a different tone." Lopez says that in her experience traditional public school teachers project an air of dissatisfaction and like to "talk about how they don't get paid very much," while at Success Academy she's "never seen a teacher who didn't look happy."

Charter schools often do a better job at getting their resources into the classroom. Barbara Darrigo, who's the principal of P.S. 149 and shares her building with Success Academy, recently complained to The Wall Street Journal about a lack of funding. "I'm in the red," she said. "I can never create a classroom that looks like [Success Academy's]—the new lighting, the sleek furniture, the technology…A pen is like gold here."

With taxpayers kicking in about $20,000 per pupil in New York City, why can't Darrigo afford to buy enough pens?

Renee's class is called "Morgan State University," which is named after the college her teacher attended. Lopez likes to refer to Renee as her little "scholar," which is common parlance at Success Academy. "I just liked the ring of it," she says. "It makes them feel important and all the kids know that the plan is for them to go to college."

P.S. 149, the school Lopez wanted to avoid at all costs, may be improving. The school had three different principals in just five years; then in 2011, Principal Darrigo took over. According to one parent commenting on the website Greatschools.org, she has "brought light and hope" to P.S. 149 by changing the "culture and tone of the school to a much more positive one."

That's not surprising. Studies have shown that competition from charter schools makes traditional schools better. P.S.149 can no longer count on every kid in the zone enrolling there, and Success Academy's record of achievement—on full display in the very same school building—gives P.S.149 something to aspire to. Maybe someday parents will actually choose to send their kids there.

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Click below to watch my Reason TV story on NYC's charter school battle:

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244 responses to “Progressives Fight to Keep Poor Kids Trapped in Failing Schools

  1. If NY state gave parents $20,000 a year per child, kids would not only have a shot at getting a better education, it will also save the tax payers money. That’s how bad things are with the NYC public school system.

    1. “”What? and I guess you just want all those people to have their money stolen by evil for-profit schools, don’t you!? Schools are part of the *community* ensuring the money stays in the *community*, while your ‘free market’ pipe-dreams are all about stealing from people…””
      / Teachers Union

      1. As scams go, this one is a doozy.

      2. Oh, THAT must be why pens are so rare in the government schools — buying them just puts money in the evil, for-profit pen manufacturers pockets!

  2. Critics claim that the rise of Success Academy and other charters is a plot by billionaire hedge fund managers to undermine public schools…

    Seemingly by successfully educating students.

    There are multiple reasons why progressives love public schools. First, it’s a jobs program for teachers. Second, it’s key to indoctrination, and impoverished students grow up to be a reliable voting bloc.

    1. Critics claim that the rise of Success Academy and other charters is a plot by billionaire hedge fund managers to undermine public schools…

      If it’s an alternative to the plot by teachers unions and their political enablers to undermine public school students, then yeah, let’s raze the schools to the ground.

    2. First, it’s a jobs program for union teachers.

      FTFY.

    3. Critics claim that the rise of Success Academy and other charters is a plot by billionaire hedge fund managers to undermine public schools…

      Public schools look awesome, when they’re the only schools you can see.

    4. They can’t stand anything which goes against the idea that they are better and smarter than everybody else and must fulfill their duty of enlughtening all the riffraff, who of course are too dim and ignorant to take care of themselves.

      Th eindoctrination is a large part of it, but it really comes down to control, plain and simple. The superior people must be in control, and that’s them donchaknow.

    5. Isn’t it more accurately a jobs program for administrative staff?

    6. “There are multiple reasons why progressives love public schools. ”

      Single Payer, single provider. It’s what they’d like to turn the Health Care system into also.

  3. But, Jim, public schooling is a shared collective obligation. And if people are allowed to not put their kids through public schools, then the public schools will be underfunded and shitty. Also the inequality. If some kids have to attend shitty schools if would be unfair if other kids don’t. It’s unjust if some people get a good education and others don’t. Forcing everyone to attend public schools will cause them to improve because diversity or something.

  4. “Education makes you feel like you can do anything.”

    I appreciate the sentiment, but I think you are not describing real education.

  5. How about we not wait until the inevitable failure of yet another neoliberal experiment in privatizing a public service? It’s not a mystery why there are bad schools. They are indeed underfunded relative to the good schools, but more importantly is the underlying poverty of the kids and their families, which translates to difficulties in all areas of life. Libertarians supporting subsidies for charter schools is absurd anyway. If the free market can’t take care of this, why do you insist it can handle healthcare and other things?

    1. $20K per student is under-funded?

      As has been said often by those who see through the fallacy of minimum wage laws, if progressives actually believed their propaganda, they’d open their own business and make a killing by paying more than their cro-magnon competitors. So it is with schools. If you actually believe $20K is under-funded, you’d open your own charter school for $20K per student in state funding and clobber the phony baloney charter schools who do it for less.

      1. $20K per student is under-funded?

        http://www.thebestschools.org/…..ed-states/

        Number 17, here in Richmond, is 22,000 a year.

        Yeah, public schools are a great value.

      2. so half a million dollars for a classroom of students. thank god the progs aren’t motivated by profit.

    2. yet another neoliberal experiment in privatizing a public service

      I chortled.

    3. My mom raised 4 kids on welfare after kicking my abusive father to the curb, but she still managed to keep us living in a decent neighborhood and got me into the best school in the county (a public school, in fact). So frankly, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for cries of “poverty”. If you don’t give a damn about your kids, it’s because you don’t give a damn about your kids.

      1. But Diane Ravitch and her kind will tell you that poor people are too stupid to advocate for their children. So obviously your mom was the exception much like that mob of aggressive women demonstrating in Albany – all exceptions – hundreds of exceptions. (sarcasm)

      2. Even if we stipulate that poverty is entirely a matter of choice for parents, it certainly isn’t for the kids.

        1. Yes Tony life is unfair. How profound.

          1. So why do you bitch about taxes and a hundred other things? Life isn’t fair. Sack up.

        2. No, Shrike! They had a choice when they chose to swim into the egg instead of into the wall of the uterus.

        3. “Even if we stipulate that poverty is entirely a matter of choice for parents, it certainly isn’t for the kids. ”

          So, the least we can do, is give them a Choice of what school to attend.

    4. Good, glad we’re agreed. We’ll do away with public education.

    5. Libertarians supporting subsidies for charter schools is absurd anyway. If the free market can’t take care of this, why do you insist it can handle healthcare and other things?

      Nobody said it couldn’t. But that’s not in the cards right now. Charter schools are more liberty friendly than public schools, just as heavily taxed and regulated legal pot is superior to prohibition.

      This has been explained to you a million times. Why don’t you stop being a mendacious cunt?

      1. Libertarians supporting subsidies for charter schools is absurd anyway. If the free market can’t take care of this,

        We have a free market in education? That’s news to me.

      2. Why don’t you stop being a mendacious cunt?

        The same reason grass can’t stop being green, water can’t stop being wet, the sun will rise in the east and set in the west tomorrow, etc.

      3. If your interlocutor does not at least acknowledge that the purpose of privatization is breaking cartels and introducing competition, he’s not serious about defending his premises or debating yours.

        1. he’s not serious about defending his premises or debating yours.

          You write that like you are new here. Of course Tony isn’t interested in defending premises. Build a straw man, knock it down, repeat.

    6. They are indeed underfunded relative to the good schools

      Citation needed.

      but more importantly is the underlying poverty of the kids and their families, which translates to difficulties in all areas of life.

      In other words, school funding is not the issue.

      1. I would argue that there are less disruptions in schools i wealthy districts because there are fewer single parent households and more full time parents. Students who are raised right are easier to educate than students who act out.

    7. Tony, several decades of experience demonstrate that the problem has little or nothing to do with funding. The problem seems to be systemic tonthe whole structure of the public school system.

      Personally, I am inclined to think that the core problem is simply that all social systems calcify over time, and need severe shaking up periodically to operate.

    8. If the free market single payer can’t take care of this, why do you insist it can handle healthcare and other things?

      FIFY

      1. Skippy for the win!

    9. I would certainly support total privatization.

      But then looting scum like you would scream that the poor won’t be able to educate their kids. So I’m willing to meet you halfway and support the education purchasing power of the poor.

      And I have to ask: if public schools can’t be held accountable for the education of the poor because poverty makes education impossible, what are you trying to save, exactly? By the terms of your argument, it doesn’t matter if the poor go to public schools or charter schools. They aren’t getting educated either way. So why not provide interested parties with formal choice?

    10. Tony, you fucking moron, these charter schools are public schools. What an addled, shit for brains peckerhead you are.

    11. //How about we not wait until the inevitable failure of yet another neoliberal experiment in privatizing a public service?

      This has been done a million times successfully. And every time it’s filed it’s after government regulated the thing to death. Patterns/correlations = connections.

      And how about or public school system? Isn’t that a failure?

    12. I get a kick out of you, Tony. Reliable to a fault when it comes to defending the indefensible.

      The subsidies don’t go to the Charter Schools. It is money that the student uses to either go to a Charter School, or a public school. If the public schools were better, then why in the world would any parent want to send their kids to a charter school? They only do so because the public school system is a unionized mess.

      Also, the poor kids that go to charter schools do better than the poor kids who go to public schools. So, the poverty is not a factor in that comparison.

  6. Nothing says “progress” like throwing kids under the bus for the benefit of the mobsters who run the NEA.

    -jcr

  7. Progressives Fight to Keep Poor (as in bad) Teachers employed for more money than they are worth while underperforming, so they may obtain the votes of teachers and teachers unions.

    FIFY

    1. It’s always funny how teachers swear that they work ten hour days, coach two sports, run two after school clubs, and come in early to tutor the kids who need more help, but then always balk at proposals that would pay teachers based on merit and the value they add. Crazy how that works.

      1. You can’t fool me. My old man was a teacher. Showed up at 0830 and was done at 1530. Often left 1/2 hour early. Had several free periods in there plus a lunch break. Now, let’s talk about the 3 months off every year.

        1. The one who drives me nuts is this guy I know who really does that. He tutors, he runs both yearbook and newspaper, and coaches track. He really is working 12 hour days, and he does deserve a raise.

          But the rest of the teachers at his school, the ones who leave with the students after six hours, they don’t deserve a raise. But he thinks every teacher should get one. He just doesn’t know how he’s getting screwed over.

          1. Union solidarity, man. If they don’t stand together they’ll fall alone.

  8. “Education makes you feel like you can do anything.”

    I think I found the problem with politicians.

  9. To be fair, “the Progressive Fight to Keep Poor Kids Trapped in Failing Schools” is not really a ploy to keep any kids in any schools. It is a plot to get more money for government employees associated with schools, no matter how many kids stay in those schools.

    If you gave every parent the equivalent amount of their child’s portion of the school budget and let them spend it at any school they wanted and the government schools emptied overnight, the school district would continue spending money like nothing happened.

    1. , the school district would continue spending money like nothing happened.

      This is pretty much it.

      Go to any yuppie amusement park major city that’s witnessing significant drops in enrollment, and watch them try to close a school because there aren’t any more students.

  10. How are these schools any different than what the city council in New London was trying to do with Susan Kelo and other’s property? In both cases the government took property from private citizens to give to private entities to achieve public purposes.

    1. Huh what?

      1. New London took property from Ms. Kelo an others and gave it to a private entity in the hopes it would achieve a public purpose (create jobs/provide tax revenue).

        New York takes property (taxes) from citizens and gives it to a private entity (success academy) in the hopes it would achieve a public purpose (educate children).

        1. Do you honestly not see the difference, or are you just being Botarded?

          1. I do not see it. What do you think it is?

            1. Bo, you’re not that dumb. Come on. You can think of at least one way they’re different.

              1. Why in the world would you not just tell me if you knew one such way?

                1. It’s the Socratic method Bo. Surely you’ve heard of it. Come on, try real hard. Put on your thinking cap.

                  1. If you can not name a way that is alright, I can not either!

                    1. Well just for one huge difference, the voucher is given to a private citizen to be used as the private citizen wishes. We also all pay taxes for the expressed purpose of education. Vouchers are just a different way of allocating said funds. For example, public soup kitchens or food pantries and EBT cards are two ways of delivering welfare spending to the indigent. Both have their pros and cons. Neither are libertarian.

                      Oh, but if you think giving poor black kids a chance in life is the same as stripping an old lady’s home to reward some crony land developer, that’s fine. But it’s an example of your pure Botardation.

                    2. “Well just for one huge difference, the voucher is given to a private citizen to be used as the private citizen wishes.”

                      And Kelo’s land was given to a private citizen.

                    3. On the grounds that the land would generate more tax revenue as a whatever the hell he was planning to build.

                      The goals are different, the takings are totally different, the actors involved are different, the person controlling the funds is different, the outcomes are sure as hell different.

                      Comparing charter schools to the Kelo taking is like comparing the contracting of road maintenance to the federal funding of cowboy poetry.

                    4. Economic development is probably closer to road maintenance than education funding. At least every able bodied citizen might benefit from general economic development, education is forcing the childless to subsidize the education of the child-encumbered ‘for the good of the children.’

                    5. Both are equally stupid. If you want to argue that someone might use a road, then you can argue that an educated populace is a more productive populace and so we all benefit. Or more specifically, an educated populace still benefits a childless couple because someone else’s kids pay for their retirement.

              2. Re: Virginian,

                Bo is right, V. Vouchers are still transfers of wealth from one group to another. Obviously, being mandated to place your child in school A exclusively is not the same as receiving a voucher that can help you place your child in school B or C. Even so, childless taxpayers are still footing part of the bill for the education of other people’s children.

                While a voucher system is much better than the current allocation system by district, that does not mean it is not thievery.

                1. While a voucher system is much better than the current allocation system by district, that does not mean it is not thievery.

                  No argument here. If I were in charge, we’d have a full on deregulated market.

                  But vouchers are different from the Kelo case in a few important ways.

                  1. But vouchers are different from the Kelo case in a few important (and apparently highly secret) ways.

                    1. Vouchers- the same number of kids are getting educated. Some are just going to different schools.

                      Kelo- Ms. Kelo’s house was stolen from her.

                    2. Vouchers-the money stolen from everyone goes to a private entity to fund the same number of kids.

                    3. You would rather have the money stay in the failing system?

                2. A lot of states have provisions in their state Constitutions that prohibit public education funds from going to institutions other than actual public uses. These predated the rise of teachers unions and in some cases Progressives from what I understand, so they were not about that. I think they were about this idea that taking money from people for public use is bad, but taking it and giving it to a private entity is worse.

                  1. Then explain welfare

                    1. And tax money going to pay Private Military Companies (PMCs).

                    2. At the state level?

                    3. I do not know of any state constitution that mentions welfare at all (it is not established as a right or mentioned).

                    4. “Beneficent provision for the poor, the unfortunate, and the orphan is one of the first duties of a civilized and a Christian state. Therefore the General Assembly shall provide for and define the duties of a board of public welfare.”

                      http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/le…..ution.html

                    5. Interesting, I stand corrected there. But I still know of no state with something like the following (from the NC Constitution) regarding welfare

                      “The proceeds of all lands that have been or hereafter may be granted by the United States to this State, and not otherwise appropriated by this State or the United States; all moneys, stocks, bonds, and other property belonging to the State for purposes of public education; the net proceeds of all sales of the swamp lands belonging to the State; and all other grants, gifts, and devises that have been or hereafter may be made to the State, and not otherwise appropriated by the State or by the terms of the grant, gift, or devise, shall be paid into the State Treasury and, together with so much of the revenue of the State as may be set apart for that purpose, shall be faithfully appropriated and used exclusively for establishing and maintaining a uniform system of free public schools.” Article IX, ? 6

                    6. Taxation, as bad as it is, is not as bad as simply having the state seize all of your land out of the blue. I should not have to explain this.

                    7. What is the difference between stealing, say, 10,000 dollars of money in taxes and 10,000 dollars worth of land?

                    8. It’s the difference between a predictable tithe of my income and losing my assets. Do you want me to prove that 2+2+4?

                    9. You are just saying that when a greater value of land is taken that is worse. Without wanting to sound too disrespectful, duh. Of course, there is this monkey wrench, Kelo got ‘just compensation’ for her land, I got zilch for my taxes.

                    10. That part is in litigation now.

                      http://ij.org/north-carolina-s…..ckgrounder

        2. New London took property from private individuals before it had the deal nailed down, and so they spectacularly failed to achieve any public purpose. Kind of like the public schools, don’t you think?

    2. Congratulations, you just made a successful argument against taxes in general.

      1. Maybe, but it might be worse to have your tax dollars taken and given to a private entity than to be given to a public use, however terribly run that is usually going to be. At least that was what some of the noise about New London was about.

        1. The noise in New London was that it was a taking of real property to directly benefit a private entity with no governmental mandate.

          The funny part is that Kelo probably received more due process than anyone on the drone list.

          1. Is real property confiscation the key? Because I frankly do not see the government taking x value of real property as much different than x value of money from me.

            1. For libertarians, is the transfer of Kelo’s property to a private entity the key? I thought we were against eminent domain in most or all cases?

              This is why your attempt to use this case as a comparison baffles me. Is Virginian supposed to relent and say, “OK, I guess the money has to go to a public school for this all to be kosher”? Since when is a True Libertarian supposed to look at a ‘public’ operation as better (in some sense) than a private one?

              1. Taxation is government confiscation as surely as imminent domain is.

                1. Gee, Bo, is it a problem when tax dollars for infrastructure are spent on private contractors? Seems like that is the real analogy. So are you advocating that departments of transportation now have to employ every single one of the workers on all road projects, or Kelo?

                  1. I don’t know, they all seem comparable don’t they? If you can supply a distinction I am happy to hear it.

                    1. So you are advocating for all labor performed in the service of government to only be performed by government employees. Wow, that’s a special kinda Team Blue right there.

                      So spending the money on public schools is OK because the teachers are employed directly by the government, but spending the money on private schools –even if it were less money– is bad because the teachers are employed indirectly. Can you tell me the meaningful distinction in the two? Can you tell me what is special about a paycheck drawn from a set of funds and issued by the government –most likely by yet another private contractor– versus a paycheck issued by a private institution and drawn from the same set of funds for precisely the same activity?

                      Could it possibly have something to do with parents being compelled to educate their children?

                    2. I am advocating either total privatization of functions or public use.

                      Again, was not that the rallying cry with Kelo? You have posed several questions, but noticeably not answered my single one I initially asked of you.

                    3. Could it possibly be because you only answer questions with more questions? Do you not appreciate it when others respond the way you do? Do you not notice when you directly refuse to realize the point made to you? Did you not understand this point, “Could it possibly have something to do with parents being compelled to educate their children?”

                      What is the public use of education? Do we own or have call on the labor of anyone educated in the public school system like we do a road? Have we not given a private individual, the student, a good appropriated from other private individuals, the taxpayers, even in a “public” school setting? Doesn’t that make your argument purely a question of taxation for education and not vouchers specifically?

                      I notice that you fail to address the point posed to you and repeatedly reply, “They’re the same, aren’t they?” When you bother to offer something more concrete, I’ll reciprocate.

                    4. Why one or the other? Why not some kinds of PPP as a less-bad option than “public use”?

                      There was no less-bad, intermediate option for Kelo. Either the property was seized or it was not. NYC is not going to stop collecting property taxes.

  11. Do you honestly not see the difference, or are you just being Botarded?

    1. This type of response is an interesting thing. If you think I am missing something so obvious as to equate to being retarded, why not simply answer the question posed?

      1. Strictly speaking, Bo, teachers are private parties, too.

        Once my tax money is taken from me to pay for a so-called public purpose, it doesn’t matter much if you hire a teacher and pay them a salary or whether you hire a group of teachers who have organize themselves into a corporation.

        If you’re going to try to stretch the kelo analogy to cover charter schools, you’ve stretched it far enough to cover teacher pay at public schools also.

        1. Of course, the difference is ‘public use.’ So do you think public use=public purpose?

          1. Since you think the distinction is “public use” then the onus is on you to define it and describe how it is different than what Fluffy wrote.

    2. Virginian-

      It’s Botardesque

  12. Progressives Fight to Keep Poor Kids Trapped in Failing Schools

    Education(*) is a right!

    /Proggie

    (*)Jobs programs for Democrat-voting unionized teachers.

  13. Progressives Fight to Keep Poor Kids Trapped in Failing Schools

    We don’t to do that. We try to make them better. However, it’s difficult today to get cooperation.

    We can always go with the libertarian idea of closing down the public schools and just making people pay for their own kid’s education. Works great in Mexico. And for those unfortunate Americans that can’t afford it, we can give them vouchers.

    1. making people pay for their own kid’s education

      Notice how the progtard inverts the aggression taking place. Not giving is taking, in their retarded little brains.

      1. Hey, it’s an argument if one feels that it’s in everyone’s best interest to educate children.

        However, in Libertarian Utopia, everyone should not be forced to do so. Those that believe that it is in our best interest to educate children should go ahead pay for it themselves.

        1. one feels

          I don’t feel about the issues, I think about the issues. That’s what makes me smarter than you.

          Those that believe that it is in our best interest to educate children should go ahead pay for it themselves.

          Right, so I can opt out of my property taxes in return for losing my kid’s spot in the public school system?

          You got a deal there.

          1. There you go smarty.

            Now, go campaign on that so you can stop paying those pesky taxes.

            1. Campaign? Oh you mean persuade the horde of grasping thieves they have no right to my property. Yeah, that’s working so well so far.

              1. Good luck with the Votes.

                1. Two wolves and a sheep may vote on what’s for dinner. That doesn’t make the vote legitimate.

                2. Note that the Prog, like all violent animals that relies on force, must fall back on ‘force by mass action’ because all of her arguments are worthless.

    2. We don’t to do that. We try to make them better. However, it’s difficult today to get cooperation.

      Probably because you keep trying the same shit that hasn’t worked the last 40 years you’ve been trying it.

      1. The American HAVEs and the Job Creators have no vested interest in an educated public. Best to keep them stupid so we can dupe them into having no choice but to do what we need them to do.

        Plus, if they are educated, they’d demand more salary.

        No worries, machinery, automation, and outsourcing will keep that rabble quiet.

        1. Translation:

          “Hey, look over there!!!”

        2. Welp, this got stupid quickly.

        3. DERP DERP none of that BS fisks what Remanfms said. You’re still recycling the same garbage you have for 40 years.

      1. And, the public education for people is really good.

        1. Yet, despite historical advancements and heroic efforts by educators, Mexico continues to struggle with “rezago,” or educational failure. Millions of students are retained or drop out after primary school and secondary school.

        2. You…just used this as an example of Why Libertopia is horrible you stupid cunt.

    3. You want to see a country where a free market of private schools works well in educating the poor? Try India.

      You never hear about that on the news. Funny, that.

      1. I work in IT on the street.

        Everyone I work with is Indian.
        I know all about it.

        Practically all the Indians you see here in the United States went to Private Schools. The education for the poor along with other safety nets is non-existent.

        Speak to an Indian sometime.

        1. But India was a centrally planned economy. How can that be?

        2. Alice Bowie:

          I work in IT on the street.

          Be careful working IT in the on the mean streets of the ‘hood.

    4. We don’t to do that. We try to make them better.

      1) You failed 2) You don’t. You want power over people. You want everyone to be corralled for your ‘social standardization’ because that’s part of ‘building a community’ and that gives progs the feeling of controlling people and that gives them and you big boners.

      it’s difficult today to get cooperation.

      BWA! Give me more money!

    5. Mexico? Fuck you, you idiot.

    6. the entire article is premised on charter schools and/or school vouchers. No one remotely sugested parents pay for their kids’ schools without subsidisation. YOU ARE A LIAR.

  14. If a Libertarian was President this problem would go away.

    The public schools would be closed and we’d stop collecting school taxes from hard working Americans as all taxes are theft. Especially taxing people with no children to pay for other people’s kids ans these child-less hard working Americans truly have no vested interest in educating other people’s kids.

    A free market solution would be setup and parents can pay to send their kids anywhere. That’s liberty.

    1. The executive branch runs schools now? I missed when that happened.

    2. That’d be pretty great.

    3. Damn right.

    4. The bigger issue, MUCH bigger really, is that public education in 2014 is much more tyrannical than a state church was in 1781.

      The sheer range of areas of human concern where public schools seek to use tax funds to enforce orthodoxy dwarfs that of 18th century churches.

      I don’t mind my property taxes as much as I mind the fact that the public schools are forcing me to support the promulgation of beliefs I find abhorrent.

  15. “Critics claim that the rise of Success Academy and other charters is a plot by billionaire hedge fund managers to undermine public schools?an effort that will ultimately create a “two-tiered” system of haves and have-nots.”

    So what they are admitting, in essence, is that the public schools do indeed suck? Congratulations on your argument, proggies.

    1. My public schools are fine. I live in a NYC Suburb, the taxes are pretty high ($13,500) per year for a 3300 sqft house, and the school ranks 26th in the state.

      But according to most Libertarians, even the public schools in the top ten suck as they are public.

      1. “But according to most Libertarians, even the public schools in the top ten suck as they are public.”

        Uh, no. There’s a reason public schools in affluent neighborhoods tend to be better than those in poor neighborhoods. You might think the answer is $$. It’s not. It’s competition. Kids in affluent neighborhoods can go to private schools.

        That is the virtue of vouchers. Why you can’t seem to grasp that is beyond me.

        1. No. It has nothing to do with competition. The people in my neighborhood send their kids to both, the excellent public schools or the $40,000/YEAR private schools.

          The Private schools don’t compete with public schools. In fact, even if you had the $40,000 in a suit case ready to go, there’s a waiting list.

          So no, competition has nothing to do with it.

          Educated parents (public school for the most part in America, btw) is what makes it work.

          1. Educated parents (public school for the most part in America, btw) is what makes it work.

            So, why the difference in outcome for those public school educated people in poor areas?

            1. The parents.

              1. They tend to be less educated.
              2. Unlike the parents in affluent neighborhoods in which the parent is aware of the school tax, the poor parents are not as involved. Ask any public school teacher in the Bronx.

              1. Unlike the parents in affluent neighborhoods in which the parent is aware of the school tax, the poor parents are not as involved.

                So what you’re saying is, that because the poor parent isn’t personally invested (i.e. paying) in their child’s education they aren’t as involved in it.

                Huh.

                Well fuck me you’ve got me stumped. Clearly the solution to that problem is to take more money from other people and increase the public school bureaucracy, right? Right?

                1. The fact is that we don’t need more money.

                  We need more oversight in inner cities in which cronies vulture the school budget.

                  My sister is a teacher in the Bronx. The superintendents and board members make deals with vendors of books and SMART BOARDS and spend all of this needless money. There’s definitely a SKIM going on.

                  It’s easy to do this to the children of non-english speaking immigrants and unsophisticated parents.

                  1. God you’re so dumb I wonder how you breathe on your own. You just admit that the system is corrupt and dysfunctional. So obviously you want to double down on it.

                    How about we get rid of it and let people make their own choices instead of shackling them to whatever their local school is?

                  2. We need more oversight in inner cities in which cronies vulture the school budget.

                    So increase the public school bureaucracy. Yeah. See how we come back full circle to the whole “40 years of doing the same stupid shit” answer from you progs?

                    1. As one of my favorite bloggers likes to say a lot: “The philosophy cannot be wrong. Do it again, only harder.”

              2. Also:

                1. They tend to be less educated.

                Hmmm…..

                And whose fault might that be????

                Obviously not the (gasp) public schools!!!!

                1. “My sister is a teacher in the Bronx.”

                  Ahh, now we know where your slanted views come from. I get it, my two best friends are teachers. But it IS about competition. Sometimes between students at public vs. private schools, but more importantly between the teachers! Bad teachers don’t last long at private schools. This is exactly what this article points out, with the difference in how this womans daughter was treated by the teachers and staff at the charter school.

          2. Nothing in this post contradicts the claim that competition is pushing these public schools to be better. Indeed it SUPPORTS the claim.

            The parents.

            Nope. RTFA. Success Academy succeeds with the same parents that are failed by public schools.

          3. Wait. There’s no competition but people are on a waiting list to get in?

        2. It’s…selection bias. The kids have higher IQs. IQ correlates with SES.

          1. No it really doesn’t. RTFA.

  16. If you haven’t seen it, I’d rec Waiting For Superman.

  17. We have examples of industries where the government takes public money and contracts with private entities to achieve a public purpose, like the defense industry. That hardly seems great to me.

    1. No, but it’s better than if the government tried to build missiles itself.

      1. And New London figured a private developer would do a better job than the city building a development area themselves.

        1. I’ve defended you before, saying I don’t think you’re a troll. I am not sure anymore.

          The fact that you can’t see the difference between:

          (1) a city condemning a private residential property, taking it without consent and giving it to private developers (who never developed it, anyway) and

          (2) allowing the beneficiaries of forced taxation to choose how their tax dollars (which are going to be taken without consent no matter what) on the education they want, rather than the crappy one provided by the state

          makes me think you are not arguing in good faith.

          1. Yeah he’s either a troll, or so desperate to play the contrarian that he makes ridiculous reaches in the attempt.

            If you want a good analogy, then vouchers are to public schools what EBT cards are to government cheese rations.

    2. Surely the increase in value the magical hand of the market will provide offsets the cost of profits. Just because it’s never happened before doesn’t mean it can’t.

      Warnings about the military-industrial complex did not imply that we should do away with a military. The real problem is that war is profitable (Rule of Acquisition #34). As are other bad and avoidable things. We’ve seen this in an almost universal manner with for-profit education. Costs explode and outcomes are fudged. What makes education especially bad at demonstrating the virtue of market forces is that it literally takes a generation for outcomes to be measured. It’s not like we don’t know how to educate people. And it’s not like research can’t find even better ways. The only real problems here are poverty and a parasitic industry whose existence depends on problems persisting in the public system and whose backers have nothing to contribute to the antipoverty conversation.

        1. The only real problems here are poverty and a parasitic industry political class whose existence depends on problems persisting in the public system and whose backers have nothing but rhetoric and more cronyism to contribute to the antipoverty conversation.

          Glad I could fix it for you, although I do realize that you don’t have the capacity to comprehend it.

          1. BTW, that was for Tonytard, not Brian.

      1. The only real problems here are poverty and a parasitic industry whose existence depends on problems persisting in the public system and whose backers have nothing to contribute to the antipoverty conversation.

        Cute.

        And stupid.

        Poverty existed before the “parasitic industry” even existed and the parasitic industry arose specifically because of the utter failure of the people contributing to the “antipoverty conversation” to actually accomplish anything other than spends shitpiles of money and create an entrenched, self-serving, and parasitic public sector bureaucracy.

        1. spends

      2. “Surely the increase in value the magical hand of the market will provide offsets the cost of profits.”

        Actually, that is true a lot under capitalism Tony. Microsoft has made a ton of profits while providing tons of value to many.

      3. Tony fists kittens.

        My statement has a much higher likelihood of being true than the garbage he just posted.

      4. literally every positive claim you just made is completely contrary to reality.

        For-profit colleges offering cheaper courses, and especially vocational training have been doing a better job at training people (also known as “educating”) than traditional colleges. When they don;t do that, they’re still better from the simple fact that they don’t leave the student in as much debt

        Are you kidding me about exploded costs? So the kafkaesque school bureaucracies don’t cost tons of money?
        It’s blatantly obvious that $20,000 per student directly transferred to the parents for them to pay for schools directly would easily create schools light years ahead of current public schools.

    3. “We have examples of industries where the government takes public money and contracts with private entities to achieve a public purpose, like the defense industry. That hardly seems great to me.”

      This argument is so so wrong.

      The defense industry is paid to develop ways to kill people… we are VERY good at that.

      The problem with the defense industry lies elsewhere, like the cronies in Washington getting them an endless money supply. And depending how deep you want to get into conspiracy theories, starting wars.

      1. You do not think we would have cronies getting them an endless money supply off of education funds in the same way?

  18. Critics claim that the rise of Success Academy and other charters is a plot by billionaire hedge fund managers to undermine public schools?an effort that will ultimately create a “two-tiered” system of haves and have-nots.

    Right, it’s better that we just have a “one-tiered” system of only have-nots. Except for our political elite class, of course, they’re special.

    1. The teachers unions would hate it if some poor kids got a good education. Let one skip through your control and the rest might get ideas.

  19. Yeah charters are a scam and unlibertarian. Do I have to keep repeating these simple facts?

    1. You could try to STFU Merican.

      1. Acomist is American?

        I doubt it.

        1. He does show up in race threads posting in support of Merican with a rather high degree of consistency.

          Even after Merican’s handle-of-the-day is outed and he has gone fully down his “public education can’t work because brown people are stupid” schtick.

          1. Murican is a socialist, Acosmist is not. They’re not the same person.

            1. I don’t think Acosmist is Merican either, but it is easy to see why some might find the two racist shitweasels indistinguishable and I was just posting why.

              If your only exposure to Acosmist involved public education threads, it’d be easy to make the assumption that the two are related.

              1. I mean, I don’t really do the thoughtcrime thing, so I don’t know if he’s a racist or what. I just know that Murican is in the Indepdents thread right now posting as Jabby. Saying “Mohammedans” a lot.

  20. I think you guys would really really appreciate this.

    The other day, at the train station on my way to work in NYC, a man came up to us looking for signatures as he was running for the school board.

    Three or so people just went up and blindly signed his petition.

    I introduced myself and asked for his name. I mentioned that I had a in 1st grade and a child in 3rd grade. So, I asked what grade his children were in. He wasn’t too smart. Sort of like Mitt Romney. He spoke the truth. He said he has no kids in the school. So I said out loud “So, you are looking to control a school budget with none of your own kids attending the schools?” It was so funny. The people that signed came back and asked to scratch out their names. He left.

    He should follow Jebb Bush’s script: “Immigrants are not felons, Illegal Immigration is an act of love!” He looked like a weasel in the post where I read this. This is what will win elections for Republicans and libertarians. Stop stating you agendas. Just lie to people.

    1. Yup, it is an interesting story, I’ll file it in my “Shit That Never Happened” folder…

      1. It was the Harriman NY Train station.
        I’ll try to find the candidate’s name.

    2. Stop stating you agendas. Just lie to people.

      That has worked really well for progressives. Their constant deceit has gotten them most of what they want.

      Of course, we don’t lie in order to get power over our fellow man. And unlike you, we don’t see such dishonesty as laudable.

      1. It is laughable. The democrats do it to us Progressives and the Republicans do it to the Jesus freaks, racists, anti-homo, etc.

        The reason I’m always on this BLOG is because you people, the Libertarians, are pretty intelligent. You may be callous and selfish. But you guys have great Ideas and many good points. I don’t agree with all, but you sure beat the hell out of the Republicans and even some of the democrats.

        I vote democrat to vote against republicans. I’m really not happy with Democrats.

        I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012.

        1. I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012.

          Another thing to file in the “Shit That Never Happened” folder. Keep this up and I’ll have to give you your own tab.

          1. I believe you can google “Alice Bowie” and “Gary Johnson” and see that I did.

            1. Yeah, I didn’t believe you then any more than I do now.

              1. Why?

                I am not with Obama. And believe it or not, Gary Johnson is on the LEFT of Obama on many things.

        2. So you assumed that because he doesn’t have kids in the schools that he can’t help them? Wow you are one dumb high-income bitch. You are why democracy is bad. Thanks for demonstrating in a small way why democratically-influenced ie public education is terrible and must be dismantled.

    3. Alice Bowie:

      He spoke the truth. He said he has no kids in the school. So I said out loud “So, you are looking to control a school budget with none of your own kids attending the schools?” It was so funny.

      You must have thought it was hilarious when Hillary Clinton ran for the senate for NY.

      Also, do you think she, or any other politicians, are sending their kids to public schools? That’s so funny, the way that they make damn well sure that their own children never end up in public schools, and seem quite satisfied with their current level of performance.

      I expect drastic improvement to the public education system any day now. Hilarious!

      1. I make around $250k and I have two kids. It would cost me $80k a year. That’s why I moved to good public schools.

        If I was as rich as Hillary, I’d send my kids to a high end private school.

        1. Uh, what?

          You just made the argument above that some fantasy guy running for school board shouldn’t be controlling the allocation of public school funds, but you’re totally ok with politicians higher up the food chain doing so?

          How do you keep your bullshit straight in your head?

          1. Perhaps you don’t understand how the school board of education works.

            The District residents elect a School board. They appoint a Superintendent and manage the budget. Politicians higher up the food chain don’t control the budget.

            The State Commissioner of Education does have a big say. And, of course, there are Federal and State Mandates.

            1. Politicians higher up the food chain don’t control the budget.

              Yeah, ok Alice.

              And, of course, there are Federal and State Mandates.

              Wait, didn’t you just say in this very same post that, “Politicians higher up the food chain don’t control the budget?”

              So, uhh, again, how do you keep your bullshit straight?

              1. Now I think you are a bigger troll than me.

                There are mandates like Pensions, salaries, and other things that have limited rules in which the school board can change. However, the board can hire and fire teachers.

                My school, is public. However, it is Union Free.

                1. Now I think you are a bigger troll than me.

                  But you are a troll…

                2. Alice in fucking wonderland/DERP

        2. Wow. So, what kind of job do you have working “IT on the streets” making $250K a year?

          According to this chart of IT salaries in NYC, you’re in the top 0.000001%, apparently.

          I think this also goes into Redmanfms’ “Shit That Never Happened” folder.

          1. Information Technology on Wall St.

            I am not in the top 1%. I am in the top 2%.

            I am an IT Manager at a major investment bank.

            1. Really?

              After reading this post from you, it’s hard to imagine that you’re commanding $250K working for any body, especially in a technical field.

              You proposed the malformed idea of defining a flat tax rate by dividing the federal budget in dollars by number of people in the US. When I pointed out that this comes out to dollars per person, not a tax rate. Then, you realized that the number you came up with (which isn’t even wrong), was “SCARY”!

              And you talk about the evils of capital gains taxation, while you’re the IT manager of a major investment bank?

              Sorry, but I’m calling bull shit.

              1. That night Brian, I actually put together a spreadsheet and called some people.

                I came up with some 50% as a FLAT tax using the 2013 budget and, as you mentioned the number of people WORKING. Not the total number of people in America.

                What i needed to find out first was how many people work. I came up with some 113million people in America work. In order to calc the tax rate, you have to determine this number.

                1. One more thing. That 50% only includes INCOME.

                  It doesn’t include Capital Gains. And, I was unable to find the total capital gains was in 2013. that number needs to be factored in as well.

              2. I’m a liberal. You don’t want to know my tax rate. I exploit the tax system just like everyone else.

                What I am proclaiming, believe it or not, is against my own best interest but I believe to be in the best interest for everyone.

                1. So you’re a hypocritical piece of garbage that only does the right thing when it’s the law. Glad we cleared that up.

            2. But you’re still totally cool with politicians in higher office not sending their kids to public schools, but still having control of funding allocation for public schools, right?

              You know, just so we can get back on topic and not keep chasing down the rabbit hole of your “Shit That Never Happened” stories.

              1. I really can’t believe I am arguing with a Libertarian about being OK with Rich People.

                1. I really can’t believe I am arguing with a Libertarian about being OK with Rich People.

                  That’s not the argument shitheel.

                  1. I Know.

                    The argument is whether I’m ok with rich people not attending public schools.

                    Progressives, believe it or not, do believe in liberty. And, it’s OK that the high ups send their kids to the BEST PRIVATE SCHOOLS. I’m not a communist, contrary to popular belief. I would not OUTLAW PRIVATE School.

                    1. The argument is whether I’m ok with rich people not attending public schools.

                      Progressives, believe it or not, do believe in liberty. And, it’s OK that the high ups send their kids to the BEST PRIVATE SCHOOLS. I’m not a communist, contrary to popular belief. I would not OUTLAW PRIVATE School.

                      Also not the argument shitheel.

                2. Alice Bowie:

                  I really can’t believe I am arguing with a Libertarian about being OK with Rich People.

                  Actually, you’re only OK with rich people as long as they don’t run for the school board without having children in public school.

                  If they want to run the public school system, as well as the entire state, without having children in the public school system, well, you don’t have a problem.

                  But, really: we’re persecuting you for being OK with rich people.

                  1. Brian, did u c my post above concerning the FLAT TAX?

                    I was never able to find a meaningful or reliable number for the Total Net Capital Gains in USA for 2013. So I did come up with 50%. I know it will be much lower if you include the Net Capital Gains.

          2. You can forget those charts buddy.

            You won’t find much correlation with what we make on Wall St and what others make.

            My boss makes in the $400k range. Her boss, my bosses boss, makes over $2mm.

            Both Indians. Both educated in India in PRIVATE SCHOOLS. Both come from affluent families.

            I have over 60 people reporting to me. I think there are about six or so that are NOT Indian.

            1. Then they should fire you and hire someone who they can pay +$100K less a year. Someone who can do some math before proposing outlandish schemes for how we’ll fund the country.

              It’s hard to believe that a server meltdown wouldn’t make your head explode.

              1. You either misunderstood or I mis-communicated to you.

                I am using the total number of people that work in America (113mm according to census). I didn’t use the total number of americans.

                Also, I don’t work in Infrastructure, I’m in Applications Development of pricing and risk applications. So server meltdowns is something I don’t deal with but do have some knowledge of.

                1. Applications Development of pricing and risk applications?

                  So, should I assume that you manage a team of software developers?

                  1. Developers, BAs, support, and offshore.

                2. Also, I don’t work in Infrastructure, I’m in Applications Development of pricing and risk applications. So server meltdowns is something I don’t deal with but do have some knowledge of.

                  Oh fuck me, a quant. Tell me again about that simple scalar beta…

                  1. I’m not a QUANT myself. I work with Quants and I have quant programmers.

                    Beta is volatility with respect to an index.

                    We work with various greeks (Delta, Gamma, Vega, etc. for VaR and Black Scholes). Interest Rate Exposure, and other exposures to Investment Securities.

                    1. That’s not all beta is. “See with this simple little model we can understand ALL the risks in the system…” BOOM!

                    2. Google says:

                      The Beta (?) of a stock or portfolio is a number describing the volatility of an asset in relation to the volatility of the benchmark that said asset is being compared to. This benchmark is generally the overall financial market and is often estimated via the use of representative indices, such as the S&P 500.

                  2. Something tells me that we’re not dealing with a quant.

                    Call it instinct.

                    1. Like adding a new letter to the Greek alphabet? At least quants can count and divide. It’s their hubris that fucks us all. In that way they are just like a good little prog…

                3. Or you could just do it the easy way and look at total income and divide by the government budget.

                  http://www.bizjournals.com/biz…..l?page=all

                  $13TT(2011)/3.8TT(2014)=34.2%

                  There, now was that so hard? BTW, quick rule of thumb is that personal income is about 2/3 of GDP, so that 13TT number makes sense.

                  1. It wasn’t that easy.

                    What i got was a census chart that had salary ranges. Unfortunately, this only included income. It didn’t include Net Total Capital Gain.

                    Also, you need to use the number of people working to see the percentage impact on not using a progressive rate.

                    1. No, I don’t. That is the beauty of a flat tax. It’s what we like to call proportional or if you prefer commutative. That means I just have to know how much total income there is to arrive at the rate that must be applied regardless of whether 99.999999999999% of the income is earned by 1 person or if it’s uniformly distributed.

              2. Never argue with the head of IT.

                1. I love that !!!!

            2. Alice Bowie:

              You won’t find much correlation with what we make on Wall St and what others make.

              You do know that these charts are showing data localized for NYC, NY?

              Does the salary of the guy running the server suddenly jump $100-150K when he finds a job on Wall St?

              Here’s a pro tip: keep personal life BS out of it. There’s not a single fact that becomes true just because you claim to be rich. And when you look like you’re full of BS, it hurts you more than it helps.

              1. I’m not Rich. I can’t even afford to live in Manhattan with my salary with two kids.

                1. Alice Bowie:

                  I’m not Rich. I can’t even afford to live in Manhattan with my salary with two kids.

                  NY and NYC (especially the school systems) appreciate your support.

                  1. Brian,

                    Do you know what a 2bedroom 2 bath goes for in NYC?

                    1. A lot more than they cost near Harriman.

    4. So if you were to get cancer, would you insist that your oncologist be in remission?

      So do you support eliminating his tax burden for educating your children? After all, he doesn’t have any kids in the school.

  21. That what I am talking about dude.

    http://www.GotsDatAnon.tk

  22. Brian and NotAnotherySkippy,

    I had a whale of a time. I’ve got to go. Good night.

    I’m actually a seemstress in the Garment District Making $62k a year.
    I live in Carnarsie and my name is Mitch Conner.

    1. And, all trolling aside, I really enjoy chatting with smart people. I’ve yet to find a single comment section anywhere in the internet with so many interesting and smart people.

      1. Like Reason.com, that is.

      2. I agree. People actually make good points, rather than just bloviate. Except Tony, of course. But, we need him to keep things goofy.

  23. According to the latest Stanford study, charter schools are on average doing a little better than their competing neighborhood public schools. But when you consider self-selection bias and much stricter discipline(which is used to weed out bad students), their performance is not impressive. In chicago, noble charters came under scrutiny for a higher suspension rate than regular public schools and also for monetary fines for students breaking rules. It was reported that thousands of dollars were raised off such fines. Can you imagine the lawsuits if say a normal public school fined lets say a homeless kid.
    This article was not well balanced and researched. Not befitting a magazine called reason.

    1. They aren’t talking about Chicago, here, sunshine. The Success Academy numbers put regular PS’s in NYC to shame.

      If you think these kids don’t deserve a chance you are as big of a scum bag as Mayor Bill.

    2. That study Showed that Charter schools do worse for White and Asian students and better for Black and Hispanic students. It was overall positive for charters. This NYC study shows how charters do against their target audience. In the NYC study, Whites and Asians were a minority of students measured.

    3. //But when you consider self-selection bias and much stricter discipline(which is used to weed out bad students)

      Wow, it’s almost like that’s an important element of running a successful school, and is maybe why we libertarians keep arguing for a free market (though subsidised) in education).
      Yeah, tons and tons of noisy ass kids disrupting everyone’s learning will destroy education, and the public schools can’t kick those kids out. That system doesn’t help anyone. In fact, because the kids know they can get away with it and are disrupted by the bad kids anyway and at least in school they could be funny and gain social status, they are ENCOURAGED to be little bastards even more so

      Some really bad kids will get kicked out of schools repeatedly, if it’s a free market voucher system? A) Yeah, that’s their parents problem, who can instill discipline B), it won’t really be a problem since the encouragement effect is gone and they get disciplined by their parents

      as for self-selection. Yup, talented kids will get into good schools where their potential will be maximized, and kids talented in other things will go to those schools. Funny how that works.

  24. Have you noticed one weird thing: our government is ready to spend billions of dollars on silly stuff like inauguration, different projects that aren’t that important these days. But they are not ready to help children who cannot even read, I am not even talking about writing (click here for college level essays) their names. We have to help them as soon as possible, otherwise we will never become successful without educated nation!

  25. So I’ve been doing a research on charter schools for a college class of mine and I wanted to be objective. Then I found This Study which showed charters being worse overall than traditional public schools. You dig into it and find that charters were worse for White and Asian students and better for Black and Hispanic students. And the left accuses everyone else of cherry picking.

  26. It almost sounds like the students in traditional schools are being blamed for the poor academic achievement. Does anyone think that students at the bottom of the school barrel would attend a charter school for them? Would their parents/ parent be willing to subject their child to higher standards? There are inner city problems addressed by the likes of Jesse Jackson, Barrack Obama and Paul Ryan. Who will step up and take on the solutions. Individuals? The ACLU ? DeBlaisio? I suspect caring parents will win.

  27. Progressives don’t actually like people. Start with that and then their positions have some sort of coherence.

    Progressives don’t like ideas. They like ‘ideals’. They like how it should be, not how it is. And, to make it how it should be, so that everyone is helped, they are willing to sacrifice actual people…every time.

  28. Huh. This is really interesting. Hope it turned out well. vegas real estate

  29. essay for me The official sat online course features interactive lessons, auto essay scoring, and much more. The common application will retain the current set of first-year essay prompts for 2014-15, without any edits or additions.

  30. I am from the poor family and it was difficult for me enter the school and study there. Teachers and students had always superstitions about my knowledge. I had to enter another school where my teacher always inspired me, helped to write my paper and complete all the tasks easily. Great to have have such mentors!

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