Federal Agency Famous for Losing Guns Proposes Regulations for Dealing with Lost Guns

Operation Fast and Furious? Whatever, we've moved on. The Bureaus of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is writing up regulations on what other people should do when guns go missing. From The Hill:

The Obama administration is working on new gun control regulations that would target stolen and missing weapons.

Police have a hard time tracking firearms that disappear from gun shops, which "just feeds the sort of already large and existing secondary market on guns," said Sam Hoover, a staff attorney with the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

It is unclear precisely what the draft regulations, drawn up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and under review at the White House's regulations office, would do.

The ATF would not comment on the draft rule, since it has not yet been released to the public, but a description provided by the White House asserts that it would target cases where guns go missing "in transit."

Anybody want to wager on onerous new compliance and reporting regulations that make life harder for gun store owners?

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

These will be the regs that will finally do in a black market. I just know it.

[Brian]

One word: triplicate. When you have three copies, nothing gets lost.

[Libertymike]

Another word: quadruplicate.

[Batgirl]

Quintuplicate.

[Libertymike]

How about making sextuplets avec moi, preferably at the Wayne Estate, in the boudoir of the Boy Wonder?

[JW]

Dodechhedrolicate.

[Floridian]

"I don't own a gun shop so what do I care what onerous regulations they pass."
/average voter

[Francisco d Anconia]

First they came for...

[Monty Crisco]

Seriously, I have not commented in a while but gun rights are my acid test. Floridian is absolutely right, as the Obamacare debacle has proven. When the main selling point of a law or regulation is your supposed exemption from it... well, it may not be the best law to pass, right?

[widget]

The Obama administration is working on new gun control regulations that would target stolen and missing weapons.

There's a fiasco about once a week in the widget household when I can't find my "stolen or missing" car keys. No amount of beating upon the wife and kids ever turns them up.

[Being Waterboarded]

Did you make them fill out form FU-39.7.5 - the one for missing keys? No? Well then you all deserve the misery you live in.

[Death Rock and Skull]

I've been filling out form 3MTA3.

[Episiarch]

Anybody want to wager on onerous new compliance and reporting regulations that make life harder for gun store owners?

You mean like the other backdoor attempts at more gun control they've been trying since the beginning of the Obama administration?

[Austrian Anarchy]

They have been trying it, and succeeding, since at least the Uniform Pistol Act of 1927.

[Mad Scientist]

I'm glad the government is finally stepping in with rules and regulations to solve, once and for all, this pressing problem. After all, when goods disappear somewhere between the producer and the wholesaler or retailer, nether party has any incentive whatsoever to keep track of that.

[Austrian Anarchy]

This guy is more Nixonian than Nixon himself. Remember, the guy who was going to get every civilian handgun off the street by 1980? He caused a serious shift in the NRA hierarchy and actually turned that bunch into a 2A defense organization. By the time Obam finishes Nixon's work, the NRA will have more members than Limbaugh has listeners.

[gaoxiaen]

When I belonged to the NRA, it put question marks beside the Libetarians' name to cast doubt on their support for 2A rights. I haven't belonged for decades.

[gaoxiaen]

Sorry about the typos. I'm in a hurry. The names were printed in voting guide in their magazines. The D's and R's all got rated. Libertarian candidates (I was surprised that we were mentioned) all got QUESTION MARKS! Late 1980's.

[Mock-star]

In the mid nineties, they just had a header at the top of the list that simply said "Libertarian candidates are, as a rule, strong on gun rights."

Today, they no longer mention them, because EVERY ELECTION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE EVAH AND YOU CANT THROW YOUR VOTE AWAY!!11!!eleventy11!!

[Sevo]

Hey, at least they're sticking with their core competence.

[Libertymike]

Would that Tony and shriek did the same. Of course, that could cut both ways; they could up the ante and post incessantly.

[Sigivald]

Police have a hard time tracking firearms that disappear from gun shops, which "just feeds the sort of already large and existing secondary market on guns," said Sam Hoover, a staff attorney with the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Funny that. It's hard to track the black market.

(The BATFE already audits inventory of FFLs, and they come down like a ton of bricks on dealers that have Unexplained Losses of any size, so it's not like it's not already Very Illegal to "lose some inventory, wink wink".

The linked article suggests the requirement might be for periodic inventories by the dealers ... which will not remotely stop the actually crooked, and will be annoying for the honest, all to stop the occasional small-time thief.

Because guns.)

[Austrian Anarchy]

So this is just like the Newt Gingrich idea to streamline the Pentagon by implementing Lean Six Sigma. Something that the entire Defense Department was infested with for years before his brilliant idea popped into his head. Those two guys seem interchangeable in so many ways.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Lean Six Sigma only works when when there's a bottom line. No one in the government values being efficient with other people's money.

[JidaKida]

Makes a lot of sense dude.

http://www.Privacy-Web.tk

[Suthenboy]

I have given up on the gun debate. The gun grabbers are relentless and will never quit until we look just like the nightmare distopia that is the UK.

The only thing I have to say to them anymore is "Fuck you. No."

Any time I run across someone on the fence I just say "No one ever makes you defenseless for your own good.". That usually does the trick.

[JW]

"Fuck you. No."

That's pretty much my answer to everything, now.

[Paul.]

I agree. However for the last few years I've been using the less curse-filled "No can do".

[Being Waterboarded]

It must be all smoke and mirrors. There is no way that even these idiots believe that they can make even a minor dent in the number of black market firearms (or, how about unregistered arms). There must be millions upon millions. Hell, go to a small country town. Everyone has 3 rifles and 5 shotguns that have been handed down for years. None have been or ever will be registered.

This is why I find it hilarious when the gun grabbers talk - seriously - about an all out ban. I ask them what enforcement of this ban would look like in small towns all across America. You want to reduce gun violence? Best not try to enforce a ban or confiscation...

[Suthenboy]

The people advocating that dont live in, and have never lived in, small towns or rural areas. They have no idea of what you are talking about.

Most of the people I know that own guns really will fight before giving them up.

[Libertymike]

Fortune cookie say, "we'll see."

[Francisco d Anconia]

It is my line in the sand. That right goes and the rest are done.

[Libertymike]

There was a blog post written by Jim Krager of Dollar Vigilante Blog last year in which he opined that most gunowners will genuflect to the government gun grabbers, i.e., cops and soldiers.

In a nutshell, what Krager argued is that the line in the sand should have been drawn long, long, ago.

Do not take this as an offense to you, personally, because, I think that you mean what you say and are sincere. Let's hope that there are many more like you when the time comes.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I'd be willing to bet the soldiers will be on our side.

[Cdr Lytton]

I don't. They'll follow whatever orders flow down the food chain. See domestic use of NG troops (during Vietnam and current counter drug/police support), federalization of AR NG and deployment of active duty troops under Eisenhower, Bonus Army actions, internment of American citizens of Japanese ancestry during WWII, use as strikebreakers, etc.

[Boisfeuras]

Tuccille wrote a great article last year on disobedience to gun bans in Europe and elsewhere, where large numbers (estimated as over 30% in most countries, and over 80% in some, like Germany and Australia) simply ignored firearms registration/confiscation schemes. I see no evidence Americans, who have a far greater tradition of and cultural affinity towards firearms ownership, would be more willing to comply.

[CatoTheElder]

The difference with the US is that government has a huge army (military and police) that is well-trained in urban warfare. An otherwise law-abiding civilian, no matter how proficient with firearms, is no match in armed resistance. Not only is he outnumbered and outgunned, he will hesitate to shoot a person whereas his adversary is fully prepared to shoot people. Absent aggressive guerrilla war tactics, I'd wager the kill ratio on gun confiscations would be over 20:1. CA is already SWATting disqualified gun owners if a resident in their house has any history of mental health issues. NOLA confiscated guns during Katrina. There was no significant resistance.

[Francisco d Anconia]

The military won't be shooting at the civilians.

[Cdr Lytton]

Kent State, the Bonus Army, and strikebreaking says otherwise.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Kent State, the Bonus Army, and strikebreaking says otherwise.

Completely different. Confiscating guns is a clear violation of the Constitution. They will adhere their oath.

The military is the most pro-gun group in the nation AND they despise this administration.

[Cdr Lytton]

No it's not completely different. When (or if) gun confiscation happens, it won't be a clear cut unconstitutional act either. It'll have legal cover of some sort.

Rank and file cops are pretty pro-gun and took similar oaths, yet they'll enforce such actions too.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Nope. Cops will. Military won't.

[LarryA]

Just as a numbers exercise:

US military has about 2,200,000 personnel, most of which are in support units. There are about 850,000 US law enforcement officers, but 60% are local, not federal. Regardless, that's about 3,000,000 personnel.

Even if the "kill ratio" is 20:1, there will still be at least 20,000,000 gun owners left when the last officer falls.

[Some call me Tim?]

As well trained as the Army is, it has been beaten more than once by guerrilla tactics.

[DblEagle]

I spent 30 years in the Army and I am not sure what it will do if ordered to seize firearms from citizens. I imagine a lot of friction and "searches" that will not turn up a damn thing. (Think about the Roman Legions searches of the dwelling during the movie "Life of Brian" for an example.)Large large numbers of Soldiers, especially combat arms types, own firearms and never register them with the military. The only part of the UCMJ that is more violated is the punitive article on sodomy.

The infantry of the Army and Marines WAS very well trained on MOUT. But with the natural attrition of people leaving the service and lack of practice you can't assume that units will be proficient in three years time.

[Irish]

Yet another Kos Kid bemoaning the fact that Obamacare is hurting him financially.

Health insurance is nuanced like crazy, and sadly most people don't have the time and/or capacity to really understand the gritty details. Relying on marketing slogans, some of which turned out not to be so correct, is turning out to be problematic.

Huh. That almost sounds like an argument against all central planning.

[RBS]

Relying on marketing slogans, some of which turned out not to be so correct, is turning out to be problematic.

Sums up his presidency pretty succinctly.

[Libertymike]

If you want a migraine, read some of the comments.

[Irish]

There is a cap on insurance company profits now (4+ / 0-)
that didn't exist before. That is why so many people and companies got rebates the last couple of years.
Premiums don't subsidize other people's rates any more than they would in a big company with employer provided insurance. (Except in exchanges rates do go up with age. However this is limited from what it use to be in individual policies. The rate for the oldest can be up to 2.5 times as much as for youngest. Many states had no limits and in almost all cases it was much higher)

...No there's not.

[JW]

I hope that Obamacare exceeds the Obamanauts wildest dreams by fucking them wildly in the ass with their new, higher rates and worsening coverage.

I want to collect the yummy, salty tears, rolling down each of their faces, and sell it as a soothing balm.

[Some call me Tim?]

I think this person misunderstood the pricing of "risk corridors" in the exchanges.

[SweatingGin]

"Tell president Obama: expose insurance company sabotage"

Ads on Kos aren't subtle.

Obama needs a Maduro-style enabling act.

[SweatingGin]

"We now have to cover pediatric dental even though none of us are even eligible to use that benefit."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA *gasp*

On a more serious note, I can't imagine giving decision making power on a health insurance plan for a population to a student committee, even grad students.

[playa manhattan]

They're an advisory committee. They just jerk off while an adult makes the actual decisions...

[Irish]

Maduro given powers by Venezuelan congress to wage 'economic war.'

"He told us to pass all the laws necessary to wring the necks of the speculators and money launderers," Cabello said.

OBSTRUCTIONIST SPECULATORS! KULAKS! WRECKERS!

[RBS]

It's always the speculators with these people.

[Libertymike]

Do you know who also had emergency powers conferred upon him by means of an Enabling Act?

[Francisco d Anconia]

W?

[Libertymike]

No question mark needed.

[Rich]

Godzilla?

[Boisfeuras]

Clement Attlee?

Outspoken left-wing figures such as George Lansbury, Stafford Cripps and Clement Attlee emerged as Labour's political leaders. They were responsible until 1934 for the production of some of the most radical policies that the Labour Party had ever known. This was no accident and reflected the sharp swing to the left in the rank and file. The party programme For Socialism and Peace adopted in 1934 proclaimed "that what the nation now requires is not merely social reform, but Socialism", and pledged a future Labour government to "establish public ownership and control of the primary industries and services as a foundation step" with workers having "an effective share in direction and control." Cripps and Attlee both raised the question of emergency powers, an enabling act, to allow a future Labour government to push through this revolutionary legislation against the sabotage of parliamentary procedures and the House of Lords.

[SIV]

I can think of one nasty "regulation to target stolen weapons". Make it a federal crime to possess a stolen or diverted firearm knowingly or unknowingly then offer an "amnesty" in which the gov would run a "background check" on all your firearms to make sure none were stolen or diverted. Instant registration.

[playa manhattan]

Not for me. I know none of mine are stolen.

[prolefeed]

How are they gonna tell if my 3D printed firearm was "stolen or diverted"?

Who in their right mind registers their guns with any government, and expects them to not get grabbed at some point?

[Marc F Cheney]

That's very clever. In such a scenario, I would surely come clean with the overlords, who, after all, already know what I do or do not possess and where it came from.

/straight face

[Irish]

English professor leaves profanity laden posts on Republican congressman's Google Plus page.

"Protect individuals with pre-existing conditions against discrimination"
--Attention, you graft-taking motherfucker: that's Obamacare.
--Any 'market-based' solution to the problem of people not getting the healthcare they need is rooted in the fantasy that "the market" will respond to competition with lower prices and better services. How's that worked for you for the last 15 decades? Tell that to my brother (broken neck, broken back, Scarlet Fever), whose conditions have made it impossible for him to get healthcare AT ALL until now.
--Your pals in the insurance industry have lots of competition, but they're happy with their profit margins, so they're NOT GOING TO LOWER their prices.
--Holy shit, you Republicans are evil.
--Oh yeah, Fuck you.

Solid arguments. I think this guy should probably read up on all the regulations insurance and medical companies are already laboring under before he starts running his mouth about 'the market.'

If you want to see the market in action, look at flat screen T.V. prices over the last decade or computing power. Those are more accurate measures than the already hyper-regulated healthcare industry.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Or look at LASIK surgery prices over the past decade.

[Sevo]

Pretty sure dental implants have ridden the same curve.

[Suthenboy]

Just wait until the dentist can 3d print your new tooth in the office while you wait.

[JW]

My dentist has a crown making machine in his office. He takes the mold of the tooth and it cuts a new crown from a solid material in about 30 minutes. No more sending it out to a lab and getting it back 2 weeks later.

He swears that he'll never make any money from it, but it's a customer service issue that he thinks is worth it.

[Generic Stranger]

LASIK is going for something like $299 per eye, now. That's ridiculously inexpensive for that kind of procedure.

[Paul.]

Yeah, but LASIK is unregulated, so...

[Episiarch]

Please tell me the Congressman's response was "U MAD BRO?".

[Sevo]

"English professor leaves profanity laden posts on Republican congressman's Google Plus page."

I'm just certain his education covered econ, right? I mean he's never make a fucking idiot of himself speaking in fields beyond his expertise.

[Libertymike]

Most people, libertarians included, just do not look at the issue through a kaleidoscopic lens. They never seem to question why do we have a market for health insurance in the first place.

[Marc F Cheney]

broken neck, broken back, Scarlet Fever

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw.....Jaywalking

[Killazontherun]

How's that worked for you for the last 15 decades? Tell that to my brother (broken neck, broken back, Scarlet Fever), whose conditions have made it impossible for him to get healthcare AT ALL until now.

Thank you for your passionate and highly informed response. You have made me reconsider my previous opposition to euthanasia. You are right, your brother should not be made to continue to suffer his wretched, genetically defective and unfortunate life. When we get the law passed, you may kill your brother how ever you see fit.

Best Regards,
Congressman Buddy Bunnburner

[Generic Stranger]

Semi Fully-relevant:

Australian Jeweler busted for making full-auto Mac-10s

Backyard arms trader Angelos Koots admitted making up to 100 of the perfectly constructed MAC 10 machine guns - more commonly seen in war zones and believed to have been used in Sydney gang shootings - at his Seven Hills house.

The guns, sold with two magazines and a silencer, were of such quality that during "Mythbuster" style tests alongside a genuine MAC 10 they fired 600 rounds a minute.

Sydney District Court heard that Koots made the guns for an associate who had links to outlaw motorcycle gangs.

Full-auto submachine guns are probably the easiest type of repeating firearm to make, and this guy did a pretty damn good job; those Mac-10 clones look almost like the real deal. Just goes to show that gun control, like prohibition, is impossible to enforce.

[playa manhattan]

SF'ed link.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com......6760983916

[SweatingGin]

Wow, $15k each. Nice looking.

[playa manhattan]

That seems a bit steep, though maybe not for Australia.

It is apparently very easy and cheap to convert certain guns to full auto.

For example, my favorite gun in my collection, the HK USC, requires a dremel and a few parts that are readily available on the internet...

[SweatingGin]

Pretty. HK makes some really beauties.

[Sevo]

How do you cool the barrel?
That's a lot of energy that has to be dissipated.

[playa manhattan]

I won't ever know unless I move out of CA.

[Generic Stranger]

I won't ever know unless I move out of CA.

The registry for full-auto firearms has been shut down since 1986; you can't register any new ones. So you won't find out unless you feel like breaking the law, and if you're going to do that it doesn't really matter if you live in CA or not.

[playa manhattan]

A lot of conversions I've seen involve swapping out the 16" barrel for something much shorter, though.

Example:
http://dev.thefirearmblog.com/.....60x495.jpg

[Generic Stranger]

Open bolt firearms are the easiest. They need two moving parts: the bolt (which has a fixed firing pin) and the trigger sear. Everything else is gravy. Mechanically simple as hell. They're so easy to convert that the ATF classed all open-bolt firearms the same as machine guns, whether they were full-auto or not.

[Generic Stranger]

That's weird...I can't find anything wrong with my HTML. Usually it will SF if you forget to put quotes around the URL (reason really likes XHTML, I guess), but those are there, and everything else appears to be correct.

I'm blaming the fucking squirrels.

[Thane is a cosmotarian!]

It's because you left out the protocol prefix (http colon slash slash).

Also, Reason uses HTML5, not XHTML, and even under its (and earlier versions') laxer quoting rules, it makes some sense for backend filters to require quotes because unquoted attribute values cannot contain an equals sign, and many URLs do. Though Reason's filters absolutely suck, so that probably plays a role, too.

[Pro Libertate]

This comment is not in the English language.

[Paul.]

like prohibition, is impossible to enforce.

...Thought the Australian Jeweler from his jail cell...

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Cesca: The Massive Republican Conspiracy to Sabotage Obamacare

Sabotaging the Website

We've known for quite some time that most Republican governors refused to open health insurance exchanges in their states. 27 states don't have exchanges and therefore uninsured residents are shuffled over to the Healthcare.gov website to buy a policy

However, earlier this month, we learned that Republican Party leadership directly urged those governors not to do it -- chiefly to burden the federal exchange with a heavier load.

Worse yet, the ACA contained zero funding for the development and implementation of the site, and there's no way the congressional Republicans would ever authorize more money for it. It's unclear why the federal exchange was unfunded in the law, but one thing's for sure, a House of Representatives that voted 46 times to totally repeal the law wouldn't have coughed up a dime to rectify the oversight.

So, what happened? A cash-starved Healthcare.gov development process, which precipitated serious glitches when October 1 rolled around -- problems that should never have occurred.

And those glitches might've been exacerbated when right-wing hacktivists reportedly conducted "denial of service" attacks against Healthcare.gov -- deliberate attempts to overwhelm the website's servers.

The equivalent of Creationists who think Satan put fossils in the ground to confuse us

[Irish]

Healthcare.gov cost literally hundreds of millions of dollars.

The idea that there's any excuse for the government to spend that kind of money on a website that can't stop crashing is ludicrous.

[Rich]

"When you try to get a quote for health insurance, the system has to connect to computers at the IRS, the VA, Medicaid/CHIP, various state agencies, Treasury, and HHS."

Next ludicrous excuse: Heathcare.gov per se works just fine; the problem is the computers at the IRS, the VA, Medicaid/CHIP, various state agencies, Treasury, and HHS.

[MJGreen]

Better give them more money.

[Sevo]

"However, earlier this month, we learned that Republican Party leadership directly urged those governors not to do it --"
I'll buy that; Obo and that hag rammed it through without any GOP support, so the GOP returned they favor; 'up yours, pal!'.

..."chiefly to burden the federal exchange with a heavier load."
BS! Fantasy. The only people who knew the website was already a failure was Obo and Co.

"Worse yet, the ACA contained zero funding for the development and implementation of the site, and there's no way the congressional Republicans would ever authorize more money for it."
Hey, tough! You had to pass it to find out what's in it and what was in it is a disaster from one end to the other.
Maybe if you hadn't lied out your ass and spent time analyzing it you'd have seen it was half-assed from the get-go.

[playa manhattan]

"Worse yet, the ACA contained zero funding for the development and implementation of the site"

Where did the $600+ million dollars come from? How did CGI Federal get paid?

[Episiarch]

Social Security fund.

[playa manhattan]

The Lockbox???? Nooooo!!!!

[Episiarch]

You maniacs! You spent it all! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!!!

[Sevo]

But the retirement find was just sitting there!

[SweatingGin]

If no one holds them to abiding by the dates and enforcing the law, why hold them to funding?

Probably it was funded, coming out of the advertising budget for it or something.

Quite the odd claim to make, really.

[Sevo]

According to an article I read, the development was funded for a fixed amount (I hope so!) and that amount was not sufficient for the 'size' of the Fed exchange. Which sounds a whole hell of a lot like post hoc admission of failure.
And then the (non-vintage) whine about the GOP not adding more was added.

[SweatingGin]

Sounds like BS, yea. The website is an entirely solvable problem. Nothing about it is *that* bad.

Interfacing with the 50 other federal systems is the hard part.

Even with the scale it needs to run at, entirely solvable, too.

[Suthenboy]

The lefts failures are always someone else's fault.

[Sevo]

"The lefts failures are always someone else's fault."

Exactly:
'We screwed it up and you didn't save us! It's your fault!'

[JW]

Just more rotten luck!

[Episiarch]

Well, it's either believe a fantasy about right-wing wreckers, or admit to themselves that they are bone-crushingly retarded dupes who got suckered so incredibly hard that they make Steve Martin and Michael Caine in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels look like less of marks.

Considering the track record of what these people will believe, it's no surprise that they're going FULL CONSPIRACY and FULL RETARD. Reality is hard, delusion is easier.

[SweatingGin]

Pelosi is a KOCHTOPUS spy sent to discredit the democrats FOR EVAH!!!

[Sevo]

Now that you mention it, I've yet to hear Obo's disaster blamed on the Kochs.
I'm sure it will be as the bad news continues; every other attempt at shifting the blame will end up the butt of late-night jokes.

[Episiarch]

Hey, if they turn on some politicians...wait! Obama is the Koch plant! It all makes sense now! Why he promised shit he couldn't deliver, why it didn't work! It's finally so clear!

[Sevo]

"Hey, if they turn on some politicians...wait! Obama is the Koch plant! It all makes sense now! Why he promised shit he couldn't deliver, why it didn't work! It's finally so clear!"

The web site fuck-up is icing on the cake; there is no reason it shouldn't have worked. There is nothing there that Amazon doesn't do, except interface with say the IRS and that should have been the stuff that got the attention. The rest you turn over to the hired help.
But the web site is getting all the attention and ALL THE EXCUSES! We're at peak excuse (or something like it). WIH is Obo and Co. going to do when the full extent of the cancellations, the higher premiums and the number of folks who simply cannot get insurance by X date becomes obvious?
If party Stupid has one bit of brain remaining, it would pin that famous 'number of people who don't have insurance' on the wall and do a careful comparison come this spring.
I'm betting the number is higher, as are the average premium for those who do have insurance.
I'm betting the "Affordable..." costs more and delivers results worse than doing absolutely nothing, not counting the friction (tax) costs for gov't thrashing around.

[Episiarch]

Those are all good bets. I'm betting that we are going to see some epic meltdowns as this shit continues. From politicians, Obamacare partisans, and just from people who have been fucked out of their health care.

It's going to be delicious. Nothing is sweeter than central planners and politicians reaping what they sow, because it happens so infrequently. This could end up being the greatest central planning clusterfuck in the longest time.

[Sevo]

Epi,
That WaPo article linked a couple of weeks ago stressed the number of meetings required to establish the coverages to be included. All that time wasted trying to figure out what price signals would have told them in one sales report.
I'm close to wearing this out, but they were Obo's Gosplan apparatchiks trying to set the quotas for Worker's Jeans Factory #4; they flat ran into the knowledge problem and it screwed them as it does EVERY DAMN TIME in central planning.

[Warrren]

Central planning is da bomb!

[Killazontherun]

If you think health insurance is expensive now, wait until some politicians decide to make it affordable.

Appos to PJ O'R

[Anonymous Coward]

It's unclear why the federal exchange was unfunded in the law,

Because when you draft a 2000-page doorstopper of a bill, and allow no one time to read it, some shit is gonna get missed?

a House of Representatives that voted 46 times to totally repeal the law wouldn't have coughed up a dime to rectify the oversight.

What's that? Elections have consequences? I'd have never guessed. Or do they only have consequences when the Lightworker wins?

And those glitches might've been exacerbated when right-wing hacktivists reportedly conducted "denial of service" attacks against Healthcare.gov

Already been rebutted by CNN. No evidence of the humorously named "Destroy Obama Care" tool being used against Healthcare.gov.

[Warrren]

The saboteurs are inside the government!

[Anonymous Coward]

The hacks are coming from the house!

Where's the baby? Where's the baby?

Anyone guesses the movie without clicking the link...wins a cookie.

[Warrren]

Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[Francisco d Anconia]

The Sound of Music?

[Warrren]

The Passion of the Christ

[playa manhattan]

A ghost story I was told in 7th grade summer camp?

[Warrren]

You went to bible camp?

[Paul.]

Mmmmidnight caller? Fuck, I remember seeing that movie when I was young...

[fish]

Holy Shit!! I wondered what happened to B.O. Bob Cesca (B.O. was due to the fact that Bob had some serious personal hygiene issues) formerly unpaid intern and "Danger Boy" of the "Don and Mike Show"!

Glad to see you made it into "legitimate" news (well HuffPo so not really)!

[MJGreen]

It's unclear why the federal exchange was unfunded in the law, but one thing's for sure, a House of Representatives that voted 46 times to totally repeal the law wouldn't have coughed up a dime to rectify the oversight.

For fuck's sake! This is just like Yglesias simply assuming that people in the 30s thought great innovation had passed.

You can check the historical record. You could do a few minutes of research and learn how the website was funded and to what degree. If you're paid to write about it, then it's your fucking job to do so. What else are you doing with your day?

Durr, it makes sense the Rethuglicans wouldn't fund it properly, so it must have been cash-starved! Submit. Another job well done!

[Warrren]

Because I'm a low class prole I like cheap wine and just picked up the giant jug of Rossi Moscato-Sangria.

Not bad. Very drinkable and very drunkable. Will buy again.

[Warrren]

Wait...refrigerate after opening? FUCK!

[playa manhattan]

You may have just destroyed your HandR reputation.

[Killazontherun]

I don't know about you but I put the kibosh on the HandR Reputation with a sizzling skewer at least once a day to keep it from getting all uppity on me. Wait, I do know about you. Good job.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Sometimes, it's hard not to stick it in crazy

Yekaterina Pusepa, 23, testified Tuesday that she only plunged a knife into her controlling, drug-addled boyfriend after he repeatedly hit her, threw her around their apartment, and then tried to throw her out on the street.
The Latvian-born beauty said she pulled out the 9-inch kitchen knife to scare off abusive boyfriend Alec Katsnelson after he punched her in the head during an argument at their pad on Gold St. in Lower Manhattan.
"He started laughing, 'Is this what you're going to do, bitch?' And when he took a swing at me, I stabbed him with the knife," Pusepa testified at her trial for attempted murder in Manhattan Supreme Court.
[...]
Katsnelson testified last week that Pusepa came after him after seeing a sext from another woman.
"I hate you! I hate you!" he quoted her as saying.
Pusepa, who wore an understated button-up tan cardigan and tan slacks, told jurors she'd been the victim of persistent emotional and physical abuse in their stormy six-month relationship.
She said they initially had a purely physical relationship after meeting at a club.

Claims he was violent with her on that night but she had no bruises or physical damage. Plus she reportedly changed her story a few times when talking to police.

[Warrren]

I hear G-Zim is in the market for a new squeezie-pie.

[SweatingGin]

She's not the slutvian that was linked a few days ago, right? More of a stab-vian?

Would. At her place, with a fake name. Burner phone. No ID.

[Sevo]

No cash and a cab waiting outside.

[playa manhattan]

The yellow teeth in the last picture ain't doing it for me...

[Anonymous Coward]

To quote a relative of mine, "she a'ight." Not worth taking a shank for.

She'd probably have a better chance if she didn't look like she was going to stab half the court room and stomp out the rest.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Is it fair to the stabbee to use an infmmayory quote from her unverified testomony as the caption to his photo?

[Warrren]

Fucking asshole got two luck tun cards in a row. Mother fucker.

[Warrren]

Got second anyway, but behind that guy. Motherfucker.

[Warrren]

*lucky turn

[Marc F Cheney]

Apparently Warren decided he'd better finish the entire jug tonight.

[Warrren]

I'm fin.

[Warrren]

*fine

[playa manhattan]

Don't worry, he's drinking moscato. It's a watered down ladies drink.

[Warrren]

Snigger if you want, but if I'm going to drink wine it has to be fizzy.

Spirits can be whatever but wine is just not my thing aside from port. And I'd rather buy a cheap fizzer than a good port. Plus after the third glass it don't matter no more.

[playa manhattan]

No headaches the next A.M.?

[Warrren]

I'll know tomorrow. This is my first go with the ultra-cheap stuff. Usually I buy something from Trader Joes, this came from a CVS.

[JW]

Operation Fast and Furious?

Operation Clumsy and Forgetful.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Operation Have You Looked Under The Cushions?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Operation Oh, there They Are, Right Next To That Dead Cop.

[Warrren]

From http://www.economicpolicyjourn.....truth.html

By, Chris Rossini

As an update to a previous post, I'm proud to announce that Truth and Paul Krugman have crashed into one another. It's in regards to Healthcare.gov, but hey, when worlds collide, it's only right to recognize it.

So let's look at the timeline (my emphasis):

Oct. 1 - "The glitches will get fixed."

Oct. 14th - "Obviously they messed up the programming big time, which is kind of a shock. But this will get fixed..."

Nov. 6 - "If the bugs in healthcare.gov get fixed..."

AND NOW .... Drumroll please!

Nov. 20 - "But the future of the reform depends not on policy per se but on whether the IT issues can be fixed well enough soon enough, a subject on which I have zero expertise."

There we go...Krugman has no clue. He had no business saying that anything would work. It took almost 2 months, but he got there.

[Sevo]

You are to be applauded for keeping those quotes.
That asshole deserves to have them face-pied into him every chance someone finds.

[Warrren]

Not me, it's from Wenzel's site tonight.

[AlmightyJB]

The gift that keeps on giving

[Eduard van Haalen]

In the madison capital times, jessica vanegeren is outraged that texas gets to enforce its law requiring abortionists to have hospital admitting privileges. Theres still the hope rhe courts will strike the lae down, but while were waiting for that to happen, "12 abortion providers who have tried to obtain hospital privileges for their doctors, but so far have received no response, will be forced to close." That leaves 20 "facilities" throughout the state.

Why all dese regelatorry hassles fer us Legitimate Businessmen? Dese facilities is jest pervidin a service, see? An I tought youse guys in texas was all libertarians! Next ting ya know, deyre gonna stop us from importin slaves!

[Warrren]

Maybe you should hook up with that other guy who is obsssed with abortion.

[Irish]

I'm really excited for Bo to show up so we can have a 50 post subthread where he and Ed argue about abortion.

Those never get old.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Said no person ever.

[Warrren]

I'm really excited for Bo to show up

Hard to imagine that's ever been said before.

[Warrren]

I was pokering otherwise I would have totally beaten Visc to the joke there.

[playa manhattan]

Bo don't know shit.

[Killazontherun]

For you younger dudes and dudettes, I fuck with Bo about his millennial status because he once took it the way joe would take to a short joke. No offense more than the usual totally offensiveness meant.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I say we put Tulpa and Bo in a room and they can argue inane points until their eyes bleed.

[Francisco d Anconia]

oops. That was a reply to Irish.

[Warrren]

You're fred.

[Warrren]

Goddammit. *fired

[Francisco d Anconia]

I could be Fred too.

[Warrren]

Kinky.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

We clearly need a nuclear option to prevent Eduard and Bo from filibustering the thread with a 200 comment abortion debate.

[Warrren]

My page down button is nearly wore out.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Brazilian woman who auctioned off her virginity last year for $780,000 is putting her honour on the block again after last year's deal fell through

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Buyer beware

[playa manhattan]

A virgin, and yet still a whore.

[Warrren]

The perfect Catholic woman.

[Francisco d Anconia]

You say "whore" like it's a bad thing?

[playa manhattan]

It is when she wants $1.5 million.

[Francisco d Anconia]

The market sets the price , beehotch!

[Suthenboy]

Deal fell through huh? Right.

I wonder why it will fall through this time.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

A fat frenchman?

'Too fat to travel' 500 pound man endures two week battle to return to France from U.S.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

500 pounds is nothing

WARNING: Link is not for those with weak constitutions

[playa manhattan]

I've had a few IPAs, so I clicked through. Her weight distribution was surprisingly disproportionate.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Too Skinny

/John

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Meet Big Tone: At a mammoth 400 pounds, this 17-year-old is the biggest running back in American football

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Captain Tony Picard punctures the defensive line like a Borg cube through Starfleet.

[playa manhattan]

We had a Tongan like that on my football team, but he only weighed 320. But he could dunk a basketball...

[Warrren]

He's slow, probably has no vert so going low and taking his knees will work. Of course you need a supply of disposable players willing to do that.

[Killazontherun]

Its the NFL, disposable players? It's their stock and trade!

[Warrren]

Hey DeAnQuan, you've been promoted from the practice squad!

[Killazontherun]

If this kid gets in the NFL, that very sentence is an inevitability.

[Killazontherun]

Good lord, I was half way expecting him to mutter, 'give me all your goddamned loot!', or 'murdering you is going to feel just right!' when he was running through those relative midgets.

[Killazontherun]

Borderlands 2 juggernaut references for those not in the know.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Dubya threw his head back in laughter when Leno asked if he had any advice for Ford. 'Have an annual physical,' Bush said when he stopped laughing

[Eduard van Haalen]

Few trolls would do this, but im a better class of troll, so I will take requesrs. If the news and debate re some of my old topics dont do it for, nominate something else and I bet ill have something in my personal news feed I can share with you. Oh, and "YOU SHUTTING UP" isnt trchnically a topic, but nice try.

[playa manhattan]

You don't type very well at night. Everything OK?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Device with touch screen. I have the opposite problem from the woman whose hands are too small, mine are too big. Thank you for ur concern.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Who was the greatest British Prime Minister: Lord Palmerston or William Pitt the Elder?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Thats supposed to be a tough question? There isnt s palmerston pennsylvania so far as I know.

[Warrren]

Disraeli, bitch!

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Earl Grey, hot

[Snark Plissken]

I was on the broad of my back for months, and it took a slow, restful voyage home before I was my own man again, in prime fettle for the reunion with my loving Elspeth and to enjoy the role of a returned hero about town. And, I may add, a retired hero; oxen and wainropes weren't going to drag Flashy back to the Front again. (I've made the same resolve a score of times, and by God I've meant it, but you can't fight fate, especially when he's called Palmerston.)

-Flashman in the Great Game

[Francisco d Anconia]

Anal lesbian midget fisting.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

To clarify, that's lesbians using midgets to anally fist themselves.

[Killazontherun]

You mean, midget hands, not lesbian hands? Well, that takes all the fun out of it.

[Warrren]

Not lesbians fisting midgets? Anally?

[Francisco d Anconia]

Or...

...midgets using lesbians to anally fist themselves.

[Warrren]

Are the lesbians midgets or vice versa?

[Killazontherun]

I've been picturing a foursome this whole time, two full sized lesbians, Peter Dinklage and joe from Lowell. Is that not how this scene is rolling?

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

joe from Lowell

You had to go there?

[Killazontherun]

The conversation was lacking a certain, grotesque, factor.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Not Robert Reich?

[Killazontherun]

He's more of a kobold than a dwarf, per se.

[Warrren]

Yeah, certainly Reich is only 1/4 hit die creature.

[Killazontherun]

I want that to be my states most searched for phrase.

[playa manhattan]

Better get to work, then.

[playa manhattan]

P.S. The search doesn't count if you don't click on the links.

[Killazontherun]

I want it to be the real thing, fellow Carolinians showing their lust for lesbians anally fisting midgets, or is it, lesbians making midgets fist themselves in the ass?, not something I manipulate through scripted web search shenanigans.

[Warrren]

You Goddamn purists will ruin this!

[Eduard van Haalen]

I would do the research, but the local research institutes banned me.

[Eduard van Haalen]

At least I think they eere research institutes. The signs said they eere full of coeds.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

add amputee and granny, you have a deal

/asking for a friend

[Killazontherun]

I once came across a video of lesbian amputees scissoring, but given that's not my thing, I stopped watching after, uhm, well, I didn't go back to watch it a second time.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Now, can it really be called scissoring if one or both of them have no legs?

[Killazontherun]

It was still effective. In fact, they had a high degree of flexibility, like something out of Reynold's Diamond Dogs that I wasn't exactly expecting.

I've been searching Bing for the video for you guys, but no luck so far.

[playa manhattan]

So bing doesn't filter then?

[Killazontherun]

Bing is the best search engine for porn.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

duckduckgo

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Deep Dish or Uncircumcised?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Whichever one Lincoln would have wanted, he was so dreamy.

[Suthenboy]

Couldnt sleep so I put the TV on for noise. Morgan Freeman was narrating 'Through the Wormhole'.
Jesus fuck, that is what passes for smart TV these days? A bunch of knuckleheads expanding the definition of the word life and then proclaiming that the universe is a giant living organism? That cities are living organisms? What a bunch of shit.
I know what they are up to there, assholes. God people are stupid.

Anyway, it pissed me off so here I am on the internet again.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

You should have another drink.

[Suthenboy]

I think I am giving the booze up...for a while anyway. Hitting it too hard lately.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Just like Rob Ford!

[Francisco d Anconia]

Pussy!

[playa manhattan]

Just curious. What is too hard? FWIW, I abstain from alcohol for the first 7 days of the month, and the rest are fair game...

[Francisco d Anconia]

I abstain for the first 7 hours of every day.

[playa manhattan]

What time do retired people wake up these days?

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

going by my mother? 6:30

[Francisco d Anconia]

7:30-8:00. But the 7 hour thing isn't a hard fast rule. Sometimes it's 4 or 5.

[Suthenboy]

playa.....16 - 20 oz vodka /day is too hard. I only weigh 150.
When 8 oz of vodka wont buzz me I know it is time to slack off.

[Francisco d Anconia]

RESPECT!

I tip my top hat to you sir. That is an accomplishment, indeed.

[playa manhattan]

Maybe. Only a liver panel will tell.

I'm a creature of habit, so I have to take "holidays" from everything I enjoy. It makes the end of the "holiday" so much better.

[Snark Plissken]

It's very common in Sweden to take a 'white month'. And then drink like crazy the rest of the time... Seems to work out though.

[Killazontherun]

Good luck with finding the right balance that is the best fit for you. I learned late in the game quality over quantity is my best practices for staying on track. Got a few Heady Toppers cooling in the fridge.

[Killazontherun]

for tomorrow night, hoping for a Falcon's upset.

[playa manhattan]

Where did you acquire these Heady Toppers? I can't find them anywhere around here...

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

You can keep cold drinks in the fridge overnight? You do have self control.
/no soldier left behind

[Francisco d Anconia]

I watched the new Futurescape with James Woods earlier and it was pretty good.

Borg implants and Cyborg technology. Fairly interesting.

[Suthenboy]

Yeah, I saw part of that and most was good. I find Woods more watchable. He is dry and cynical, always sees the dark side. My kind of asshole. Freeman just tries to sound wise, which he most certainly is not.

I only took issue with the one second when someone asked if robots will have souls and another where they confused creating a duplicate consciousness with living forever.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

The Casey Kasem Story Gets Sadder and Sadder

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Are Canadians Always this Serious?

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

The Ballad of Rob Ford.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

DID YOU SEE THE ALBUQUERQUE BALLOON FIESTA????

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

It's a front, Gus Fring is using those balloons to move meth.

[Francisco d Anconia]

When you get there TURN LEFT!

[Snark Plissken]

I grew up there. For me it was much cooler before it became so large and touristy and formal. Used to help ballonists land in mesas walking home from school and stuff.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

In Truck vs Bridge, Bridge always wins.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Just goes to show, yellow warning signs everywhere means no one pays attention to yellow warning signs anywhere.

[playa manhattan]

Sort of like the CA Prop 65 warnings. They are on almost every commercial building that I have ever been in here.

Top Men
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....arning.jpg

[playa manhattan]

Some of those trucks just got haircuts, others, not so much.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Can we all just agree that the ECHL's Reading Royals Christmas jersey's are the best thing ever?

[Warrren]

Ashton Kutcher concern trolls Wal-Mart over the canned food drive. Typical clueless lefty asswipe

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs.....43025.html

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

dont. read. the. comments.

[Warrren]

I saw some that were reasonable.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

ashton kutcher---@aplusk

@WalmartNewsroom you had 17 billion in profits last year. You're a 260 billion$ company. What are we missing?

What's 17 billion divided 1.7 million ways?

[Warrren]

Who was the dumb fuck that was all Kutcherish here a few days ago?

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

The Toronto Raptors are 5-8, and leading the Atlantic Division

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

It's raining in Southern California.

[playa manhattan]

It's lovely. 60s, gentle rain, clean air. I have my sliding glass door all the way open.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Really? I thought like true Californians you, Jesse, and EDG would be heading for higher grounds to escape this deluge.

Didn't you see the STORM WATCH tracker on the local news?

[Warrren]

It's PRECIPITATIONAPOCOLYPSE! Get all your Weather Updates on KABC Channel 7!

[playa manhattan]

Where are you, Warren?

[Warrren]

NorCal. Lived in SoCal most of my life so I know how the locals react to the most mundane type weather.

[playa manhattan]

My favorite NorCal experience: In college, it rained for 27 straight days in February.

[playa manhattan]

EDG ain't from around these parts. Originally midwestern, I believe.

I didn't catch the news, I was at dinner. OUTSIDE. In sandals, shorts, and a t-shirt.

I went to the pier lighting festival afterward and there were families dressed in full rain gear. Stormaggedon 2013 became the meme of the evening.

[Francisco d Anconia]

It's 0 deg F in north central Montana. Dropped 50 deg in two hours yesterday.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

12F in Manitoba. We got our first layer of winter snow now.

[playa manhattan]

I saw snow in So Cal on Sunday. It was leftover from last winter, though.

[DblEagle]

Honolulu was 67 this morning at dawn. It was jacket weather here.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I don't think I've ever felt anything colder than 37 degrees where I live.

[Suthenboy]

The last time I was in Ashville, NC it was 5 below. I did not find it uncomfortable at all.

When it is below 40 in Louisiana I freeze my ass off. The cold damp just seeps into everything.

[Francisco d Anconia]

The cold damp just seeps into everything.

Nothing could be more true.

-20 at 30% RH is more tolerable than +35 at 95% RH.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Meh. The cold winters keep the Californians out. 😉

[playa manhattan]

So, if you move to Chilean libertopia, you want to move to a similar climate?

[Francisco d Anconia]

That would be optimal. Two things I require...bird hunting and fly fishing (for trout).

The secret to happiness is to live where you play.

[playa manhattan]

Well then, I truly hope HidroAys?n doesn't ruin your future fly fishing grounds.

[Francisco d Anconia]

That's south of where I'd go (Coihaique). Besides, fishing below dams (tail waters) makes for awesome fly fishing.

[playa manhattan]

Also, what about Costa Rica? You could hunt Macaws instead of whatever you hunt in MT. And isn't Marlin fishing similar to fly fishing?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Not really a cold weather guy. I was in DC back in February for a weekend and I was appalled at how dead things look in the winter. Dead grass, dead trees, grey, overcast sky that pours down icy rain instead of snow.

I need palm trees, so Chilean libertopia is a go for me in the future.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

talk to me when it's -30 for 12 days straight.

[playa manhattan]

-30 Canadian, or -30 regular non-retarded?

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

it's almost the same thing

[Francisco d Anconia]

-40C = -40F

[Francisco d Anconia]

I've seen that back in the late 90s. It was -30 for two weeks. It actually hurt to breathe.

[Warrren]

I don't know why we upset Ginny Postrel so, this thread is perfectly fine. I don't know what she could possibly find objectionable about it.

[playa manhattan]

I honestly think she was fine with the goat fucking bit. It was some of the other stuff.

P.S. What is the ABV on your CVS "Jug Wine"?

[Warrren]

6.5 about the same as basic beer.

It's already wearing off. Not the buzz I was looking for. I'll need to up the dosage.

[Warrren]

And check the fine print.

[Snark Plissken]

I drank some 16? beer last night that totally kicked my ass. What is the highest ABV beer can get to?

[Snark Plissken]

Wikipedia has 2%?12% so this must have been 12%.

[Warrren]

Holy fuck! Cocoroco sounds like some shit.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Dogfish Head makes a 120 Minute IPA that is 21% ABV. That's the highest I've ever seen.

[Snark Plissken]

That's not fortified? Meh, I've also got a mild headache this morning.

[Francisco d Anconia]

G-night kids.

[JidaKida]

The Feds have WAY too much spare time on their hands.

http://www.Privacy-Web.tk

[Richhanson]

LOL...what a bunch of hypocritical jokers. Anyone looking to buy guns anonymously without the government breathing down your neck should take a look at this site, http://freedomreloaded.mybigcommerce.com/. Used em a few times, great service.