It Still Doesn't Matter if NSA Spying is Legal, It's Wrong Anyway

Cindy Cohn at the Electronic Frontier Foundation addresses the New York Times' eternal agonizing over its internal decision to delay, by 13 months, a major 2005 story about warrantless wiretapping by the Bush administration. That decision still raises doubts about the Times' relationship with government officials, and led to Edward Snowden bypassing the gray lady when looking for a willing outlet for this year's revelations about NSA spying (that's NSA honcho, Gen. Keith Alexander, pictured). Cohn takes issue with Times' staffers conclusions that all of this intrusive surveillance is now legal, arguing that the Obama administration relies on tortured interpretation of the law to intercept phone and Internet communications. But Cohn is letting herself get caught up in an side-show argument that ought to be left to the increasingly irrelevant scribblers at fading media institutions. In fact, it doesn't matter if the government's vast surveillance schemes are legal. What matters is that the spying is despicable and should be fought, frustrated, and sabotaged by anybody with the means to do so.
In an article on the controversies and debates swirling around the 2005 article, Times' public editor Margaret Sullivan quotes Eric Lichtblau, one of the authors of the article, on the fallout.
Given the law of unintended consequences, and a fair helping of irony, the publication of the warrantless eavesdropping story resonates now in quite another way: The furor it caused prompted the Bush administration to push hard for changes in the laws governing surveillance.
"Our story set in motion the process of making all this stuff legal," Mr. Lichtblau said. "Now it's all encoded in law. Bush got everything he wanted on his way out of office."
There may be public outrage over the latest wave of surveillance revelations, but the government has a helpful defense: Hey, it's legal.
Hold on there, writes Cohn. Not so fast.
Not so. The government's claims of "legality" are wrong, have been strongly criticized by national security law professors, and are currently being challenged in court by EFF, ACLU, and EPIC, among others. The Times disserves its audience by repeating them as if they were true.
In fact, the ACLU has a hearing in New York this Friday, November 22, in its key challenge to one of those "legal" claims: that the NSA's indiscriminately collecting telephone records is "legal" under a convoluted interpretation of the section 215 of the 2001 Patriot Act that mentions neither telephone records nor the NSA. To try to make it fit, the government attempts to redefine the limits on production of "relevant" things to allow the collection of massive amounts of "irrelevant" information. In other words, by a plain reading of the statute, what the NSA is currently doing in collecting massive amounts of telephone records on an ongoing basis is not legal.
Cohn is likely correct, I think. The feds have stretched Section 215 well beyond the breaking point, relying on secret interpretations of that law, as well as on executive orders that they won't even release to the public. Chances are, given an honest judge, federal surveillance will eventually be found to have gone beyond the limits of the law.
But should we be satisfied if the judicial system proves accommodating to the silly putty theory of legal interpretations? Or what if Senate and House leaders slap themselves on the forehead, say "our bad," and pass legislation that really does authorize the snooping? Does that make it all right?
As I've written before, the answer is: No fucking way. The surveillance is intrusive, violates privacy, and empowers untrustworthy state officials with information that is too easily abused. That is, it should be illegal because it's unacceptable; it's not unacceptable because it's (presumably) illegal. We shouldn't tolerate the surveillance state whether or not Congress dots the president's "i"s and crosses his "t"s for him.
I hope the ACLU, EFF, and EPIC are successful in their legal challenges to government surveillance for tactical reasons—it's a path to victory over the snoops. But that doesn't mean we should stop fighting the surveillance state even if politicians extend the cloak of legal rectitude to cover its transgressions.
A legal surveillance state still needs to be drowned in the creek.
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You know who else did bad things with the excuse that it was legal?
The Ancien Regime.
The people who ran Enron?
BOOOOSH?!?
It is also legal to execute people in North Korea for watching movies or reading a bible. What is legality after all? A ticket to commit evil?
Yes. Legality is a fig leaf of banal procedure used to cover the evil deeds of men.
When it comes to government, yeah. Pretty much.
Legality is the expression of a societies ethics through a process provided by the government of their choice. Therefore legal == right. At least, according to statists and relativists.
I was fuming until I read the last sentence in that.
I was going to go on for a bit, but I got angry writing it.
Please go on. This needs to be hammered home.
Well, take jus prima noctae. Its not that there's anything morally wrong about taking a woman who is about to be married against her will outside of what society believes, according to this theory. So as long as 50%+1 members of society believe this should be legal, then it is automatically both moral and ethical as well. Rape is a violation of societal norms and has nothing to do with concepts of moral agency, self-ownership or force per se.
**NOTE: This is not what I really believe**
"So as long as 50%+1 members of society elected sociopaths believe this should be legal, then it is automatically both moral and ethical as well."
FTFY.
Legality is the expression of a societies ethics through a process provided by the government of their choice. Therefore legal == right. At least, according to statists and relativists.
And...this is what Tony really believes.
I fucking knew Tony was Brett's sockpuppet!
Ew.
According to Shriek, if a government says its legal then it is morally a-o-k.
I can only hope that Government will declare it legal to kill Shriek.
In the meantime we are free to not respond to it, and just laugh to ourselves at how mind-numbingly stupid it is.
Looks like somebody's getting it!
The law is a charade that the powerful use to convince the proles that we're all equal, and that the powerful are actually limited in what they do. But as we have seen so many times, the law doesn't ever seem to apply to the ruling classes, does it? A cop shoots an unarmed man; paid vacation. Obama's DOJ walks guns to Mexico; no one is ever punished. And so on.
"What matters is that the spying is despicable and should be fought, frustrated, and sabotaged by anybody with the means to do so."
Silver lining: if it tends to normalize subversive modes of thought, at least you got that goin' for ya.
Which is nice.
You know why NSA wiretapping isn't wrong? Because its legal.
You know why NSA wiretapping is legal? Because it isn't wrong.
You know why marijuana usage is wrong? Because its illegal.
You know why marijuana usage is illegal? Because its wrong.
You know why... Because FUTW!
A legal surveillance state still needs to be drowned in the creek.
Must be the Italian blood talking.
More like a trip to the bottom of the river in some cement shoes, amirite?
Fuggetaboudit! Rivers are too old school. These days you just whack em and let the rats do the rest.
"I smell a rat...."
/Jack N in the Depahted
Oh wow, OK that jsut makes a ll kinds of crazy sense dude.
http://www.Privacy-Road.tk
The fact that the NSA-backers are arguing petty legalisms rather than "it was the right thing to do" is telling. Authoritarian scoundrels often use the law as a fig leaf to cover evil actions.
Often? Not always?
Sometimes, they just go full FYTW.
Alt Alt Text: Most of those medals are for spying.
Is that a poster face for the Banality of Evil or what?
Put a Boy Scout Leader uniform on him and I'd believe he's a child molester.
"I haven't had this much sex since I was a Boy Scout leader!"
Or a priest's frock.
OT: A funny statement I just read on weather.com describing cities with worst allergy conditions.
With global warming, climate change and hot temperatures, wind can spread a lot of pollen very quickly and for a prolonged period."
AHAHAHAHHAHA
Global Warming AND CLIMATE CHANGE! WE'RE DOOOOOOOOMED!
Old story:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....rease.html
Home page here is even better:
http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm
All this aside, it is NOT LEGAL.
The PATRIOT act doesn't trump the 4th amendment. Electronic eavesdropping without a warrant is a crime, whether or not any court does its damn job and convicts the perps who do it.
-jcr
Exactly.
I so wish I could vent on this issue, of course then my security clearance would be revoked for "subversive activities".
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