Yesterday I noted the case of Erin Cox, a Massachusetts teen who was suspended from her school's volleyball team because she attended a party where alcohol was being served. The problem: She not only wasn't drinking but wasn't really a guest at the party. The only reason she was there was to pick up a friend who was too drunk to drive and called her for help.
Now the district's superintendent, Kevin Hutchinson, has spoken publicly about the case. North Andover Patch reports:
The matter has been decried [as] a situation of "zero tolerance" gone overboard. But Hutchinson says there is no such policy:
"We do not have a 'zero tolerance policy.' Each incident is fully investigated and decided upon based on the individual facts and circumstances. Our administrators are tasked with applying the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association (MIAA) rules pertaining to student-athletes and alcohol in a consistent and fair manner," Hutchinson wrote. "To be clear, the MIAA's, and by extension North Andover High School's, 'chemical health rule' prohibits student-athletes from possessing alcohol, in addition to prohibiting its use, consumption, or distribution."
Cox has reportedly been cleared of any wrongdoing regarding alcohol use or distribution at the party in question. And Hutchinson -- who said disciplinary decisions like these are made by the principal following MIAA guidelines -- did not offer any clarification as to why North Andover High School Principal Carla Scuzzarella decided the particular punishment was appropriate.
In other words: According to Superintendent Hutchinson, Cox's school does not have an inflexible rule that produced a perverse incentive to let a drunk friend drive a car. Cox's school carefully considered the evidence, investigated its options, and then deliberately decided to take an action that produces a perverse incentive to let a drunk friend drive a car.
Never let it be said that zero tolerance is the single dumbest idea in American schools.
Second thoughts: I may have misunderstood Hutchinson. It is entirely possible that school officials punished Cox not because they thought her story didn't matter, but because they didn't believe her story in the first place. Guests at the party have disputed Cox's account of the evening, asserting on Facebook that she was there for longer than she admitted and that she drank heavily. (The word "puking" appears.)
I have strong doubts about that high-school-grapevine version of events. It has been contradicted by one of the officers at the scene, who reported that Cox "was polite, articulate, steady on her feet" and "did not have the slightest odor of an alcoholic beverage coming from her person." And while the Facebook chatter included claims that video shot at the scene would undermine the girl's tale, the video has failed to materialize.
On the other hand, the friend Cox says she was there to help has not materialized either. And you needn't believe Cox was drinking to the point of vomiting to imagine that her story isn't true. There is, at any rate, a fair chance that the school did not think it was true, and thus that I misconstrued the meaning of Hutchinson's comments. Mea culpa.
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...did not offer any clarification as to why North Andover High School Principal Carla Scuzzarella decided the particular punishment was appropriate.
Hutchenson was probably hoping his reading from the non-zero policy brochure would distract everyone from the fact that he blindly follows a zero tolerance policy.
A drunk teenager can be arrested for possession; he or she is possessing alcohol in their blood. Makes a retarded amount of sense the transportation applies as well.
My undergrad Dean of Students considers all alcohol consumption, by anyone of any age to be a violation of the school's alcohol policy because you are "harming yourself" simply by ingesting it.
When you look at the quality of urban water supplies throughout history, it's hard to believe that there's any religion that could possibly view booze as a bad thing. Something neurotic took place in Christianity during the Enlightenment, and we're still paying for it.
I imagine he's thinking of the Prohibition movement in the US (and maybe in other countries?). There as strong faction of Protestant drys who had better organization that the wets and gradually persuaded the country to go dry. After 12 years of experience the (largely Christian) public said "screw this" and got rid of the law.
And that's the *best* case you can make for Christians being dry.
Of course, they tend to frown on drunkenness regardless of denomination, and some still insist their own members stay dry. Which is perfectly healthy nowadays what with clean water.
I think it's those parts about some wizard turning water into booze. Also something about making wine from blood. I'm pretty sure if you have enough sugar in your blood to ferment it, then you must have severe uncontrolled diabetes.
Christians don't generally care about any texts unless they support their a priori beliefs. I'm all for Christians and all for booze, but the past couple of hundred years--at least since the Victorian period--has had some hellishly crazy prohies, virtually all of whom operated under the color of protestant authority.
It's probably different for someone whose dominant understanding of Christianity is Catholicism, but Bible Belt Xians have always been soundly temperance-minded, at least so long as no one was looking.
My humorometer is down for repairs today, as I can't tell if this is a serious comment or not. Have drunk teenagers actually been arrested on possession charges? Why not start arresting teenagers when they buy Welch's from the grocery store, as I can guarantee you that there's some small percentage of alcohol therein.
"We do not have a 'zero tolerance policy.' Each incident is fully investigated and decided upon based on the individual facts and circumstances. Our administrators are tasked with applying the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association (MIAA) rules pertaining to student-athletes and alcohol in a consistent and fair manner,"
So in other words, theoretically your administrators can think for themselves, but in practice they'll just throw the book at the kid.
I think this is like cops denying quotas. They can deny it all day long, but we know they have them. So this school says it doesn't have zero tolerance...except they're lying and it actually in practice does.
Government lies all the fucking time, about just about anything where it worries it could be inconvenienced or annoyed.
Wow. Not only should the girl NOT get into trouble, she should be commended for helping to prevent drunk driving. Furthermore, while I do not condone teenage drinking, I was actually impressed that the drunk teen was sober enough to call someone to pick her up - this is something we WANT drunks to do (teen or otherwise).
A mother of one of my high school friends held a high school graduation party at her house and supplied the beer - with the requirement that if you were to drink, you had to stay and sleep on the floor. Most parents (including my own) had no issues with this arrangement whatsoever.
A mother of one of my high school friends held a high school graduation party at her house and supplied the beer - with the requirement that if you were to drink, you had to stay and sleep on the floor. Most parents (including my own) had no issues with this arrangement whatsoever.
I applaud this wholeheartedly. Although, I'm surprised CPS and the cops didn't get involved, given how insane this country has gotten.
Now you see ad campaigns threatening parents who host underage drinking parties. Which, of course, only encourages more risky and harmful drinking.
21 drinking age is silly enough. Taking it so seriously is even worse. Most places you go that have any kind of drinking culture, the drinking age is 18, 16 or nonexistent and if some underage people drink, or if parents host a party, no one gives a fuck.
A mother of one of my high school friends held a high school graduation party at her house and supplied the beer - with the requirement that if you were to drink, you had to stay and sleep on the floor
This same situation happened to me. A cop showed up cause they found out somehow, and she talked to him for a couple of minutes, I believe she lied about us drinking. Mid conversation his radio went off about some problem a dozen miles away so he got in his car and took off.
Wow. Not only should the girl NOT get into trouble, she should be commended for helping to prevent drunk driving. Furthermore, while I do not condone teenage drinking, I was actually impressed that the drunk teen was sober enough to call someone to pick her up - this is something we WANT drunks to do (teen or otherwise).
I also have an experience semi-relevant to this. One of my roommates was a couple of months younger than me. The night he turned 21 I showed up to have one beer to toast him, then walked home and went to bed since I had to work the next day. A few hours later I got a call saying he was drunk and needed a ride, so I walked back and picked him up. On the mile drive home, I got pulled over because I only turned on the parking lights (it was his car which I had never driven, and the street has lampposts ever 5 feet). I explained that I was making sure he didn't drive drunk (he was blacked out in the backseat). They didn't care and spent the next 25 minutes trying to get me on DUI, before final giving me a ticket for the headlights.
We had parent sponsored teenage drinking parties all the time in high school. Of course that's back before America became a country full of whiney, outraged, drippy pussies.
"prohibits student-athletes from possessing alcohol, in addition to prohibiting its use, consumption, or distribution."
So which one of these rules did she break, even unintentionally? From the description in story, the cops concluded that she didn't possess, use, consume, or distribute alcohol, and school doesn't seem to be claiming otherwise.
The transportation of liquor by minors is strictly prohibited. Doesn't matter if the liquor is bottled in the trunk, in the passenger's belly, the passenger's blood, or the passenger's sherry enema. It's all the same in the eyes of those who enforce stupid rules for the power and pleasure they get from enforcing stupid rules.
That's my problem with this whole story. They're saying she did...something. They're just not saying what it was, and neither is she. I'm starting to wonder if it even had anything to do with liquor.
It's important to note that Massachusetts figures in a disproportionately high number of these news stories of bizarre zero-tolerance policies, including the first grader disciplined for bringing the less than 1" long side-arm of a Lego mini-figure on his school bus (returned to him broken in half by the school).
I've had a few encounters with the administration of my kids' schools, and I get a sense that the educrats are terrified of making a mistake erring on the side of tolerance. It wasn't that they were stupid, or incapable of understanding nuance. They expressed pretty good situational awareness. Rather, they were clearly afraid.
Why? I am not sure: the principals are appointed by the superintendents of the school districts, which are in turn appointed by school committees. The school committees are elected offices that are not paid.
My guess is that the school committees are effectively not independent and that they are essentially rubber-stamping policies coming from the state educational establishment. But that is really an ill-informed guess.
My wife works for a public school and they have to attend these legal meeting where they talk about all the ways the school is liable and how they can be sued for pretty much anything. My wife is always fretting about this and I tell her not to worry because they will sue the district not some employee making 40 grand a year.
Florida actually got rid of tenure and pensions. Now they have 403bs. After three years you become a contract employee or something if you stay in the same district. Otherwise teachers are yearly at will hires if they change districts.
I'm sure there's more to this story than meets the eye. For some reason the principal had a hard-on for busting this girl, and this was the best excuse he could find.
To be clear, the MIAA's, and by extension North Andover High School's, 'chemical health rule' prohibits student-athletes from possessing alcohol, in addition to prohibiting its use, consumption, or distribution."
Is it just my imagination, or is this a complete non sequitur?
Would he toss a student out for riding back from the liquor store with Dad?
If the kid is behind the wheel while driving Dad home from the liquor store, then the kid can be cited for transporting alcohol, but not if the kid is a passenger. Same deal if the kid is driving Dad home from the bar and the only alcohol in the car is in Dad's blood. It's still transportation of alcohol.
But not everyone is taking Cox's side in the dispute. Mothers Against Drunk Driving President Jan Withers told FoxNews.com the school was right to come down on the teen.
"Underage drinking is so very dangerous, that's why MADD appreciates this school's effort," Withers said. "I'm not there and I don't know all of the details, but indeed, their efforts to prevent underage drinking through zero tolerance are admirable."
Withers, who said underage drinking kills roughly 4,700 annually, added: "It's done in the spirit of the health and safety of the children."
"""It's done in the spirit of the health and safety of the children."""
And if that 'spirit' happens to actually undermine the health and safety of the children, well, FUCK 'EM! because we have a lot of lobbying to do to get MORE POWER and stick our noses into each and any corner of human life we can possibly justify! So suck it, kid!
Think about the fact that someone actually sought to speak to someone that wasn't there and doesn't know the details so that they could get their opinion on record.
Yes, I'm accusing Fox News of being staffed with statists.
Jan Withers: "It would have been better for the drunk student to drive herself home, and perhaps kill herself or someone else on the way. That's the message of MADD."
"Underage drinking is so very dangerous, that's why MADD appreciates this school's effort," Withers said. "I'm not there and I don't know all of the details, but indeed, their efforts to prevent underage drinking through zero tolerance are admirable."
She's part of MADD, which means she is a mother. Unless she had in vitro or artificial insemination, I don't see how a man would put up with that long enough to get her pregnant so she could be called a "mother."
She transported an intoxicated person with alcohol in their blood which counts as transporting alcohol. It's stupid but that's what the legislation says.
Bottom line: they wanted the girl to squeal to her parents (or the cops) so they drunk friend would get in trouble, not bailed out.
This is how the gestapo was effective in Nazi Germany - most of their tips about hidden Jews or slurs against the Fuehrer came from neighbors trying to get others in trouble.
Are we all sure about this story? I've read a few articles, one on NorthAndover.patch.com and a few folks in the comments section paint another story that she was acutally there... and drinking.
It doesn't make sense to me, because of the police clearing her, but where did that information come from? Was the original story all from the family side and all the other national outlets just jumped on that and ran with it?
It wouldn't be the first time the press got something wrong.
...did not offer any clarification as to why North Andover High School Principal Carla Scuzzarella decided the particular punishment was appropriate.
Hutchenson was probably hoping his reading from the non-zero policy brochure would distract everyone from the fact that he blindly follows a zero tolerance policy.
You know who else showed zero tolerance?
Not a clue....but I hope they have a name every bit as spectacular as Scuzzarella!
Scuzzy beyond imagination. How aptly named.
"there'll be no more mockery of your name Mr. Glascock."
Carrie Nation?
I believe a sober minor driving with an intoxicated passenger is technically transporting alcohol and can be prosecuted for it.
Transporting the alcohol that's in the intoxicated passenger's blood?
Yep.
I thought high school girls only "transported" one type of fluid internally?
A drunk teenager can be arrested for possession; he or she is possessing alcohol in their blood. Makes a retarded amount of sense the transportation applies as well.
" Carla Scuzzarella "
Didn't Warty take her to the prom?
My undergrad Dean of Students considers all alcohol consumption, by anyone of any age to be a violation of the school's alcohol policy because you are "harming yourself" simply by ingesting it.
Sounds like a fun guy.
I'm not impressed with your undergrad Dean of Students. Teatotalers are an evolutionary abomination with unfit livers.
She's basically my arch nemesis. She was awful. Pretty much just because she could be.
You should tell her to get over the facts of how she was conceived and have a drink.
When you look at the quality of urban water supplies throughout history, it's hard to believe that there's any religion that could possibly view booze as a bad thing. Something neurotic took place in Christianity during the Enlightenment, and we're still paying for it.
Christianity views booze as a bad thing?
Want to point that out to me in the text?
I imagine he's thinking of the Prohibition movement in the US (and maybe in other countries?). There as strong faction of Protestant drys who had better organization that the wets and gradually persuaded the country to go dry. After 12 years of experience the (largely Christian) public said "screw this" and got rid of the law.
And that's the *best* case you can make for Christians being dry.
Of course, they tend to frown on drunkenness regardless of denomination, and some still insist their own members stay dry. Which is perfectly healthy nowadays what with clean water.
"There as strong faction of Protestant drys who had better organization that the wets and gradually persuaded the country to go dry. "
Yes, by and large they were called feminists, or at least lead by them
I think it's those parts about some wizard turning water into booze. Also something about making wine from blood. I'm pretty sure if you have enough sugar in your blood to ferment it, then you must have severe uncontrolled diabetes.
Blood Ale Thread!
Christians don't generally care about any texts unless they support their a priori beliefs. I'm all for Christians and all for booze, but the past couple of hundred years--at least since the Victorian period--has had some hellishly crazy prohies, virtually all of whom operated under the color of protestant authority.
It's probably different for someone whose dominant understanding of Christianity is Catholicism, but Bible Belt Xians have always been soundly temperance-minded, at least so long as no one was looking.
And live shorter lives than moderate drinkers.
My humorometer is down for repairs today, as I can't tell if this is a serious comment or not. Have drunk teenagers actually been arrested on possession charges? Why not start arresting teenagers when they buy Welch's from the grocery store, as I can guarantee you that there's some small percentage of alcohol therein.
In some places it's standard practice to, when citing minors for intoxication, to throw in a possession charge as well.
And they're generally not arrested. They're given a summons and returned to their parents.
In Texas we have Minor in Consumption and Minor in Possession to split that difference but every state is different.
Seriously, don't help them. Liberals in charge, who knows what's next.
So this was intentional. Zero Tolerance is fucking retarded, this is even worse.
The whole point of zero-tolerance policies is to avoid personal liability for stupid decisions by putting the liability on an organization.
But it's been so long people forgot. So this person might have set herself up for a lawsuit. A real lawyer will know better than me.
The whole point of zero-tolerance policies is to avoid personal liability for stupid decisions by putting the liability on an organization.
Just following policy. Blame the book.
What's worse than Zero Tolerance?
Thought crimes and pre-emptive punishment, coming soon to a government near you.
"We do not have a 'zero tolerance policy.' Each incident is fully investigated and decided upon based on the individual facts and circumstances. Our administrators are tasked with applying the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association (MIAA) rules pertaining to student-athletes and alcohol in a consistent and fair manner,"
So in other words, theoretically your administrators can think for themselves, but in practice they'll just throw the book at the kid.
I think this is like cops denying quotas. They can deny it all day long, but we know they have them. So this school says it doesn't have zero tolerance...except they're lying and it actually in practice does.
Government lies all the fucking time, about just about anything where it worries it could be inconvenienced or annoyed.
It's not a lie if you really believe it.
Wow. Not only should the girl NOT get into trouble, she should be commended for helping to prevent drunk driving. Furthermore, while I do not condone teenage drinking, I was actually impressed that the drunk teen was sober enough to call someone to pick her up - this is something we WANT drunks to do (teen or otherwise).
A mother of one of my high school friends held a high school graduation party at her house and supplied the beer - with the requirement that if you were to drink, you had to stay and sleep on the floor. Most parents (including my own) had no issues with this arrangement whatsoever.
I applaud this wholeheartedly. Although, I'm surprised CPS and the cops didn't get involved, given how insane this country has gotten.
Well, you see, there's a distinction. Your friends parents, as well as your own, weren't imbeciles.
As a parent, I'd have a problem with it. As an adult, I would therefore not allow my kids to attend. See? Problem solved. No government necessary.
The local MADD group (or whatever) should make a big deal about giving this girl an award and a gift certificate to the GAP (or wherever).
MADD are a bunch of fuckweasel prohibitionists that are pretty much the originators of Zero Tolerance in schools.
MADD has local groups? MADD does not have local groups.
See below
That's why I said "or whatever". I can't be expected to keep track of what every crazy cult stands for.
Parents have been arrested and charged for doing exactly that, you know right?
There was fuckhead judge who sentenced such parents who were being responsible to eight years but was reduced to 2 on appeal. I forget which state.
You Americans are mental sometimes. I don't see stuff like this in Canada - especially Quebec which views alcohol like Europe.
Every country picks its random shit.
Chaque pays choisit ses al?atoire merde.
(I didn't want to get into trouble with the language police.
Je ne veux pas avoir d'ennuis avec la police de la langue.)
Nid wyf yn y swyddfa ar hyn o bryd. Anfonwch unrhyw waith i'w gyfieithu.
Now you see ad campaigns threatening parents who host underage drinking parties. Which, of course, only encourages more risky and harmful drinking.
21 drinking age is silly enough. Taking it so seriously is even worse. Most places you go that have any kind of drinking culture, the drinking age is 18, 16 or nonexistent and if some underage people drink, or if parents host a party, no one gives a fuck.
Puritans in new costumes.
So why do the Muslims hate us again?
Because of our freedom. *snicker*
I think they hate us because of our costumes.
Your friend's mom sounds like a control freak bitch.
This same situation happened to me. A cop showed up cause they found out somehow, and she talked to him for a couple of minutes, I believe she lied about us drinking. Mid conversation his radio went off about some problem a dozen miles away so he got in his car and took off.
I also have an experience semi-relevant to this. One of my roommates was a couple of months younger than me. The night he turned 21 I showed up to have one beer to toast him, then walked home and went to bed since I had to work the next day. A few hours later I got a call saying he was drunk and needed a ride, so I walked back and picked him up. On the mile drive home, I got pulled over because I only turned on the parking lights (it was his car which I had never driven, and the street has lampposts ever 5 feet). I explained that I was making sure he didn't drive drunk (he was blacked out in the backseat). They didn't care and spent the next 25 minutes trying to get me on DUI, before final giving me a ticket for the headlights.
Warning might be appropriate, but uh yeah it's dangerous to drive without headlights, and I'm not sure what lampposts have to do with anything.
We had parent sponsored teenage drinking parties all the time in high school. Of course that's back before America became a country full of whiney, outraged, drippy pussies.
"prohibits student-athletes from possessing alcohol, in addition to prohibiting its use, consumption, or distribution."
So which one of these rules did she break, even unintentionally? From the description in story, the cops concluded that she didn't possess, use, consume, or distribute alcohol, and school doesn't seem to be claiming otherwise.
I believe the correct answer is FYTW.
By having an intoxicated passenger she transported alcohol. So distribution.
Unless said person subsequently hurled, and then someone else consumed the hurl, I don't think even that qualifies as distribution.
You aren't thinking like a statist. If the passenger is drunk then there's probably some undigested alcohol in there somewhere.
The transportation of liquor by minors is strictly prohibited. Doesn't matter if the liquor is bottled in the trunk, in the passenger's belly, the passenger's blood, or the passenger's sherry enema. It's all the same in the eyes of those who enforce stupid rules for the power and pleasure they get from enforcing stupid rules.
but school policy doesn't prohibit transportation, only possession, use, consumption, or distribution.
transportation = distribution.
Intent to distribute.
The rule was meant to protect sparkly vampires.
um, no, they are not remotely the same thing.
um, the are the same thing if the state says they are the same thing.
Fight nominalism!
That's my problem with this whole story. They're saying she did...something. They're just not saying what it was, and neither is she. I'm starting to wonder if it even had anything to do with liquor.
what's worse is a super who can justify what happened. And with a straight face.
It's important to note that Massachusetts figures in a disproportionately high number of these news stories of bizarre zero-tolerance policies, including the first grader disciplined for bringing the less than 1" long side-arm of a Lego mini-figure on his school bus (returned to him broken in half by the school).
I've had a few encounters with the administration of my kids' schools, and I get a sense that the educrats are terrified of making a mistake erring on the side of tolerance. It wasn't that they were stupid, or incapable of understanding nuance. They expressed pretty good situational awareness. Rather, they were clearly afraid.
Why? I am not sure: the principals are appointed by the superintendents of the school districts, which are in turn appointed by school committees. The school committees are elected offices that are not paid.
My guess is that the school committees are effectively not independent and that they are essentially rubber-stamping policies coming from the state educational establishment. But that is really an ill-informed guess.
My wife works for a public school and they have to attend these legal meeting where they talk about all the ways the school is liable and how they can be sued for pretty much anything. My wife is always fretting about this and I tell her not to worry because they will sue the district not some employee making 40 grand a year.
The fuck do they have to be afraid of?
They can't be fired!
Florida actually got rid of tenure and pensions. Now they have 403bs. After three years you become a contract employee or something if you stay in the same district. Otherwise teachers are yearly at will hires if they change districts.
Unlike police departments, I believe that if they get sued it actually affects their budget. So they have an incentive to avoid lawsuits.
I would think schools would carry some sort of liability insurance. The deductible might be so large as to effect the budget.
What's Worse Than Zero Tolerance?
-1 Tolerance?
It's like, how much more intolerant could this be? And the answer is none. None more intolerant.
Hahhah HA ha HA ha HAH haha!
You're kidding, right? Have you been following this blog very long?
Beyond the Zero Tolerance?
If anyone would like to share their opinion with Kevin Hutchinson:
Hutchinsonk@northandover.k12.ma.us
I'm sure there's more to this story than meets the eye. For some reason the principal had a hard-on for busting this girl, and this was the best excuse he could find.
I'm going to be generous and assume the principal was trying to do the right thing and should therefore be fired and lose his pension.
Nice message to send this girl.
Adults are such assholes.
We teach a set of rules and obligations (correctly) and when the child actually executes it we pull this shit?
Fuck you Hutchison or whoever was in charge.
BRING BACK PROHIBITION
For the children.
You want to make children illegal?
YES!
Okay, I think I finally see how it all works now. It goes like this: Fuck You That's Why.
To be clear, the MIAA's, and by extension North Andover High School's, 'chemical health rule' prohibits student-athletes from possessing alcohol, in addition to prohibiting its use, consumption, or distribution."
Is it just my imagination, or is this a complete non sequitur?
Would he toss a student out for riding back from the liquor store with Dad?
If the kid is behind the wheel while driving Dad home from the liquor store, then the kid can be cited for transporting alcohol, but not if the kid is a passenger. Same deal if the kid is driving Dad home from the bar and the only alcohol in the car is in Dad's blood. It's still transportation of alcohol.
So yeast is an alcohol precursor and any minor in possession of any should be arrested. I think I get it now.
I think yeast is not grounds for arrest, just a thorough cavity search and inclusion in the list of known suspects.
Only if the yeast is fermenting.
People get arrested for meth precursors even when they aren't cooking it. It's better to be safe.
By being involved in school athletics, you give the school consent to monitor you 24/7.
Never let it be said that zero tolerance is the single dumbest idea in American schools.
I'm having a hard time unpacking that sentence. Is it intentional irony?
Fox News article on subject
But not everyone is taking Cox's side in the dispute. Mothers Against Drunk Driving President Jan Withers told FoxNews.com the school was right to come down on the teen.
"Underage drinking is so very dangerous, that's why MADD appreciates this school's effort," Withers said. "I'm not there and I don't know all of the details, but indeed, their efforts to prevent underage drinking through zero tolerance are admirable."
Withers, who said underage drinking kills roughly 4,700 annually, added: "It's done in the spirit of the health and safety of the children."
fuck you, Withers! and fuck MADD!
Like I said, prohibitionist fucks who initiated zero tolerance in the first place.
"""It's done in the spirit of the health and safety of the children."""
And if that 'spirit' happens to actually undermine the health and safety of the children, well, FUCK 'EM! because we have a lot of lobbying to do to get MORE POWER and stick our noses into each and any corner of human life we can possibly justify! So suck it, kid!
Weren't they the ones that lobbied the Federal government to coercing all states into making 21 the drinking age?
Yup. Cause apparently it's just 18-21 year olds who drive drunk....
Or they don't actually care about drunk driving, they care about drinking.
This seems like a totally valid, not at all retarded, position to hold:
THIS IS WHAT AMERICAN VOTERS ACTUALLY BELIEVE!
Think about the fact that someone actually sought to speak to someone that wasn't there and doesn't know the details so that they could get their opinion on record.
Yes, I'm accusing Fox News of being staffed with statists.
Jan Withers: "It would have been better for the drunk student to drive herself home, and perhaps kill herself or someone else on the way. That's the message of MADD."
"Underage drinking is so very dangerous, that's why MADD appreciates this school's effort," Withers said. "I'm not there and I don't know all of the details, but indeed, their efforts to prevent underage drinking through zero tolerance are admirable."
Die in a fire, you loathsome cunt.
She's part of MADD, which means she is a mother. Unless she had in vitro or artificial insemination, I don't see how a man would put up with that long enough to get her pregnant so she could be called a "mother."
Most of the officers of MADD are men.
Patriarchy!
Maybe he was drunk?
In this simpleton's world, cabs contribute or underage drinking, I guess.
This really isn't even zero tolerance. Zero Tolerance would be to punish her for actually consuming alcohol.
She did nothing of the sort. She was in relatively close proximity to alcohol that was not hers, and was with people who had been drinking.
No, this is beyond zero tolerance. This falls under FYTW.
She transported an intoxicated person with alcohol in their blood which counts as transporting alcohol. It's stupid but that's what the legislation says.
is the principal enforcing some state law now? the school policy she cited says nothing about transporting, however defined.
Bullshit. Show me where the legislation says that.
No, there's more to this story that we may never get. I'm not sure liquor had anything to do with it.
Erin Cox learned her lesson.
Public school administrators are petty tyrants deserving of contempt.
Hey, she had to figure it out sometime.
What's Worse Than Zero Tolerance?
Six Sigma?
Bottom line: they wanted the girl to squeal to her parents (or the cops) so they drunk friend would get in trouble, not bailed out.
This is how the gestapo was effective in Nazi Germany - most of their tips about hidden Jews or slurs against the Fuehrer came from neighbors trying to get others in trouble.
"See something, say something."
Are we all sure about this story? I've read a few articles, one on NorthAndover.patch.com and a few folks in the comments section paint another story that she was acutally there... and drinking.
It doesn't make sense to me, because of the police clearing her, but where did that information come from? Was the original story all from the family side and all the other national outlets just jumped on that and ran with it?
It wouldn't be the first time the press got something wrong.
You mean the guy who says it is notoriously displayed on FB, yet doesn't provide a link, a FB username, or a screenshot?
How about this?
http://imgur.com/rrkXRKf
Get help from a friend, go to jail. I bet the DUI's there skyrocket.