Yes, Sen. Ted Cruz Is Still Talking (As of 6:30 AM Eastern)

Texas GOP Sen. Ted Cruz is still on the Senate floor waging his not-officially-a-filibuster filibuster to oppose and defund Obamacare, or at least force Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to allow a discussion and vote of possible amendments. At a little over six hours in now, he still has a way to go to catch up with Sen. Rand Paul's 13-hour drone-inspired filibuster from March.

C-Span is still airing the speeches (interrupted with occasional questions — or speeches framed as questions — from friendly senators) here. And yes, a couple of Twitter folks friendly to Cruz's aims have registered the site IsTedCruzStillTalking.com.

Below, Sen. Cruz reads Green Eggs and Ham to his absent daughters as a bedtime story:

UPDATE: Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) has shown up at about 9:00 p.m. to defend Obamacare and actually debate the matter wtih Cruz. (Summary: Cruz knows people Obamacare has hurt. Durbin knows people it has helped.)

UPDATE: Sen. Cruz is still up as the clock strikes midnight in D.C. That puts him at a bit more than 9 hours.

FINAL TUESDAY UPDATE: Sen. Cruz is still at it (with some significant assistance from Utah Sen. Mike Lee) at 1 a.m. in D.C. If he makes it until 3 a.m., he'll beat Sen. Rand Paul's filibuster, though given that this speech isn't actually a filibuster, I suspect it won't be put in the record books.

Comments

[Sevo]

Over on the Chron comments, he's being accused of sentencing children with cancer to death!
Yep, he hates the childrunz!

[Episiarch]

I would imagine the TEAM BLUE low forheads are currently oscillating between "he's a horrible monster" and "he can't do anything, this isn't a real filibuster". You know, how their opponents are magically both incompetent morons and evil geniuses at the same time.

[Sevo]

And by now it is no secret that Obamacare does nearly nothing of what the promo promised.
But it doesn't matter; those who oppose it are going to kill what it isn't going to do anyhow!

[Fatty Bolger]

Right, and the price of accomplishing nothing has gone from a $200 billion savings, to a cost of $600 billion or more. But we can't afford to not do it.

[John]

They are so stupid they are willing to create a national disaster that they are likely to get blamed for creating rather than step back and admit they were wrong. They are just fanatical morons.

[Sevo]

"They are so stupid they are willing to create a national disaster that they are likely to get blamed for creating rather than step back and admit they were wrong."

John, they are in no way going to get blamed.
Have you seen shreek? It doesn't matter what Obozo does, it's BUSH'S fault. Those guys whining in the comments? Won't matter; when the costs go through the rook, it'll be the insurance companies.
There is ZERO self-examination here. None. It is *always* someone elses' fault.

[John]

The rest of the country won't be as forgiving. You watch. They own this. That is why Reid is so pissed off about this. He knows the last thing the Dems in the Senate want is to have to vote for Obamacare again or to have the news have to associate it with the Democratic Party as a whole rather than the village idiot.

[PapayaSF]

In a rational world, Democrats would own this. In the real world of low-information voters and a Democrat media, great effort will be expended to blame Republicans for any and all failures. Just wait: within a few weeks, Obamacare's failures will be Ted Cruz's fault.

[John]

It won't work. The media can distract but it can't do that much. They own it. they have to own it. Hell, most of their base is so stupid they are out bragging to their friends about it.

[VG Zaytsev]

In the real world of low-information voters and a Democrat media, great effort will be expended to blame Republicans for any and all failures.

Which is why actions like this are essential - keep the morons defending their abortion of a reform.

[Mint Berry Crunch]

I think I'm doing the double blockquote thing from now on.

You know, how their opponents are magically both incompetent morons and evil geniuses at the same time.

Well, don't forget that dyslexic retard George W. Hitler somehow managed to trick many smart Democrats into backing him on Iraq.

[OldMexican]

Re: Mint Berry Crunch,

I think I'm doing the double blockquote thing from now on.

Isn't it bitchin'???

[Francisco d Anconia]

If you can read this, you don't need glasses.

[Sevo]

Yes, I do.

[OldMexican]

Shit... I do need glasses.

[sticks]

I can read it with my glasses on.

[Mint Berry Crunch]

Isn't it bitchin'???

It's sweeter than Yoo-Hoo.

I can't remember who I saw do it first the other day. Did you invent it?

[OldMexican]

I discovered by accident some time ago but now use it like I use underwear... that is almost every time.

[Archduke of Pantsfan]

o

o

o

o

o

oo

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yet, whenever a person says preventing GM food sentences people to death in poor countries they laugh or claim it makes no sense.

[Slammer]

Dick Durbin Derp Derp Derp

[SweatingGin]

Can't take much more Durbin

[PapayaSF]

Derp

Derp

Derp

Derp

[VG Zaytsev]

Shriek on Durbin

Slurp

Slurp

Slurp

Slurp

Slurp

Slurp

[Ted S.]

Have you got any Reason-Rupe polls on what the public thinks of Sen. Cruz's speech?

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Broken out by Republican, Democrat, and Independent, of course.

[LilDebbie]

Durbin, you mendacious shitbag, your employer, the American people, through an amendment put into law by their duly elected representatives, voted to kick your ass to the exchanges without any employer contribution. That is what the law says, and if you won't follow the law, we won't either.

[Ted S.]

If the Republicans had any intelligence, they'd make this a top campaign point.

But they're stupid, and venal enough that they want the power to do this themselves on other issues.

[John]

That and how they delayed the employer mandate to provide insurance but refuse to even consider delaying the mandate on voters to buy insurance.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Get down, Cruzzavala!

[John]

http://blogs.news.com.au/heral.....l_warming/

It is amazing how stupid these people are. They are all shreek level stupid. They all sit around and tell the same lies to each other just knowing it is the truth.

[OldMexican]

DAVID SUZUKI: Well, I mean, that is always the argument that's made. GMOs are very, very expensive. Now, the people that need this food are not going to be able to afford it.

The guy is a complete ass.

[Sevo]

"GMOs are very, very expensive."

They are so expensive that poor farmers plant them to make money! It's MAGIC!

[Ted S.]

They are so expensive that poor farmers plant them to make money! It's MAGIC!

Never believe it's not so.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Thank you for that horrific flashback to my childhood. Could have gone the rest of my life without hearing that again.

[Swiss Servator, Spare a Franc?]

Seconded. Violently so.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

This guy is the prototypical environmentalist. He has the illusions of expertise, but when it comes down to it, he is an ideological fuck. He opposes nuclear power for christ sakes. Get a grip David.

[Paul.]

It's no longer 1996. No one listens to David Suzuki.

He made a name for himself as Canada's affable "people's" scientist. Then he went off the rails in the advocacy industry.

He's done.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Suzuki has pulled a fast one on the CBC and Canadian public. He's revered up here and never quite understood why.

[Rich]

Cruz: "We should have a debate about the role of government."

Right on, Ted! To get things started, just whip out a copy of the Constitution and read it.

[Slammer]

Just once I would love to see a guy filibustering keep talking, step behind a chair, and piss in a Gatorade bottle, then step back to the podium

[SweatingGin]

CSPAN is very careful about camera angles.

"hang on, I'm just going to step over to Senator Durbin's desk"

[Sidd Finch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P5M3EyCnfo

[OldMexican]

Summary: Cruz knows people Obamacare has hurt.

Like me.

Durbin knows people it has helped.

Like him.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Alright, so when is he going to break out Fifty Shades of Grey?

[John]

No, he is going old school, Story of O

[Hillary's Clitdong]

When is he going to start reading it in the voice of Gilbert Gottfried?

[Alice Bowie]

Keep Talking Cruz...
Keep Talking

Lucky for you, most people in this country don't have kids with diseases that the insurance companies would like to weasal out of paying.

Luckily, there's a Black president in the White house. Had this been the same guy and NOT BLACK...the EXACT SAME GUY, we'd have no tea party, and Obamacare.

Obamacare would have been much better had he kept the PUBLIC OPTION and allow all over 50 years of age to apply for Medicare. Today, there's a gap between 50-65 in which people are getting sick, are un-insurable, and we the tax payer have to pick up. I would have so much prefer as a tax payer to have 50-65yo on Medicare than pay ER or other coverage. Had Obama been named John White, and been white, I don't think we'd have any of these problems.

[John]

Had Obama been white, he would have never been elected with his links to radical figures like Wright and Ayers and his total lack of a resume. Hell he would have never run.

Moreover, if Obama had been white and elected, he would have necessarily had more experience and more of a plan and never shot his mouth off about health care the way he did in 07 and there never would have been an Obamacare. Chances are, the Dems would still control the house and the economy would have had a reasonable recovery had Obamacare no inflicted so much uncertainty on business.

Yeah, being black really didn't help Obama or the Democrats when you look at the whole story.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Only ignorant wingnecks ever gave a damn about a couple of nobodies like Rev Wright and Bill Ayers.

[LilDebbie]

Obama's an ignorant redneck?

[Palin's Buttplug]

No. In reality Obama is a nerdy geek. Harvard Law Magna cum laude and lousy athlete combined.

[OldMexican]

Re: Palin's Buttwipe,

No.

But, you just suggested he was just a few minutes ago: "Only ignorant wingnecks ever gave a damn about a couple of nobodies like Rev Wright and Bill Ayers." And I believe you were being sincere. Am I wrong?

He gave a damn about Rev. Wright for 20 years, and Ayers for about as long. Ayers even wrote Obama's autobiography. That says much.

[Rabban]

Wait, you know his unreleased College Records? hmmm, BS detected.

[John]

In a sense that is true. Stupid white people like you were too interested in voting for a black man. And the result of course is that Obama is in the process of destroying the entire country's trust in government. It is almost like the Libertarians created him as some kind of Manchurian candidate or something. Liberals like you are so stupid and easily lead, all it took was the right black man and you charged off the cliff.

You are retarded shreek. But you make up for it by being profoundly ignorant and hateful. No go rant a dumpster or something so the adults can talk.

[John]

But I will give you credit Alice. You are about the only liberal I know who is starting to figure out that people are not going to care how many people Obamacare "helps" when the cost is real and assessed on them. Prog programs only work if you can convince people someone else will pay for them.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Yes, Alice, in a sane country the health insurance cartel would be public enemy #1.

But Obama is sekret Muslim! (according to wingnut myth)

[John]

Hold it, this morning you were telling us obamacare was wonderful and Cruz was terrified of it working. Now, Obama is evil for not breaking up the cartel?

Jesus fucking Christ, you have mixed up the talking points again, you little retard. Tell you what, tell your handlers to call me. I can post their dipshit talking points under my own sock puppet. At least the sock puppet talking points will be right. You fuck them up so badly are so whacked out on lithium or whatever the hell the doctors at the state hospital give you, you can't even cut and paste them properly

[PapayaSF]

in a sane country the health insurance cartel would be public enemy #1.

How dare companies offer insurance? How dare they?

[VG Zaytsev]

Palin's Buttplug|9.24.13 @ 10:17PM|#

Yes, Alice, in a sane country the health insurance cartel would be public enemy #1.

Which is why Barack created Obamacare to enrich them.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yes, replace the insurance "cartel" with a government one.

Solved!

Sigh.

[Sevo]

Alice Bowie|9.24.13 @ 10:03PM|#
"Lucky for you, most people in this country don't have kids with diseases that the insurance companies would like to weasal out of paying."

Yes, you lying pile of shit, you know full well that Obozocare isn't doing one bit to help that.
But that doesn't stop ignoramuses like you from promo'ing it! It's all about intent; The fact that it'll cause deaths is irrelevant to shitpiles like you, Alice.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Quit being an ignorant douchebag, Sevo. The ACA prevents rescission.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|9.24.13 @ 10:29PM|#
"Quit being an ignorant douchebag, Sevo. The ACA prevents rescission"

Sure it does, shitbag, along with cancer, high costs, death and uh,...
Go fuck your daddy.

[OldMexican]

Re: Alice Bowie,

Lucky for you, most people in this country don't have kids with diseases that the insurance companies would like to weasal out of paying.

That is such an unrecognized truth, Alice. Thank you for pointing it out. It suggests the question why are we required to pay through the nose, leaving our OWN kids without food, just so in the odd chance a kid is host to rare and exotic diseases, his parents won't have to pay themselves to keep the little bastard alive.

[Palin's Buttplug]

See, you have proven to be smarter than Sevo if nothing else.

But that is the essence of insurance - community rating. Yes, millions of healthy kids parents will pay a few dollars more to pay for that cancer stricken kid.

When the market does it it is called "insurance". When you opt out you are known as a "freeloader".

[John]

But that is the essence of insurance - community rating.

Sometimes you say something so stupid an irrational and such a fucked up distortion of even the liberal talking points, you even amaze me.

[OldMexican]

Re: Palin's Buttwipe,

Yes, millions of healthy kids parents will pay a few dollars more to pay for that cancer stricken kid.

You seem to have missed the point. Why are millions of parents compelled to pay "a few dollars more" for anything? Why am I being compelled to do so?

When you opt out you are known as a "freeloader".

Not unless I pay for my things myself. As far as I can see, it is the parents of the cancer-stricken kid who are free-loading, if what you describe is true: that millions of parents are made to pay more for their insurance so the parents of that cancer-stricken child don't have to pay what they should.

When the market does it it is called "insurance".

What are you calling "insurance"?

[Jordan]

The essence of insurance is the pricing of risk, you fascist fuck.

[Sevo]

You have proven yourself to be dumber than shreek:
"But that is the essence of insurance - community rating"
And that's truly off the bottom of the scale.

[Jordan]

Is this in response to me? Because I was responding to shreek.

This isn't a controversial statement. (PDF)

[Sevo]

No, damn threaded comments;
Shreek has proven himself dumber than shreek.
Sorry; should have stuck some quoted comment in there. Too easy to misunderstand.

[Jordan]

I see. Yeah he does prove himself dumber with each comment.

[Sidd Finch]

But that is the essence of insurance - community rating.

fascinating

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Palin, no you dirtbag, it's not the fucking essence of insurance.

It's like progressives get to invent anything they want under any definition. It's...weird.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Fuck you, Alice.

My daughter has a serious chronic illness. I know too well the "per-existing condition" game, but you don't get to use her as a prop for your wealth redistribution agitprop.

[OldMexican]

Re: Heroic Mulatto,

I hope with all my heart that everything goes well for your daughter.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Same here HM.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Thank you OM and FdA.

[Sevo]

"My daughter has a serious chronic illness."

Somehow, I have a feeling you'll do better dealing with that than Obamacare ever would.
All the best.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Whatever it is, good luck HM.

[DEG]

I hope things go well for your daughter.

[Jordan]

John Edwards was white Obama. How did he fare, you racebaiting prick?

[VG Zaytsev]

Nope,

John Edwards had a successful pre politics career, even if it was looting the public via the court system.

Obama didn't even have that going for him.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Lucky for you, most people in this country don't have kids with diseases that the insurance companies would like to weasal out of paying.

"Kids! WITH DISEASES!!"

[Duck Dynasty is Great]

I would respectfully request him to read my Duck Dynasty fan slashfic.

In it, Si sneaks up to Phil while he's sleeping. He squats over his face, and begins to defecate messy diarrhea onto Phil's face. Phil wakes up with a start, but then, seeing that his longtime fantasy is finally coming true, grips Si's pale white buttocks and smashes his face into Si's messy asshole. Phil then rims Si out for several minutes, while Si masturbates furiously. At the last second. he spins around and ejaculates onto Phil's face. Phil then uses Si's beard to wipe off his shit and cum covered face, and they agree never to speak of it again.

That's just a summary, but I've emailed the story in it's entirety to Sen. Cruz's staff in hopes it can get read on national television.

[SweatingGin]

Leave the slashfic to SugarFree, please.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm waiting for SugarFree's magnum opus and the love story for the ages:

STEVE SMITH meets Trevor Phillips.

[Francisco d Anconia]

What do you call an act like that?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

A Duck Commando?

[Palin's Buttplug]

The Elite-ocrats?

[Francisco d Anconia]

Do you know how much I hate the fact that YOU were the only one who got that.

Don't talk to me. I despise you.

[Bam!]

Redneck Foie Gras

[Francisco d Anconia]

Fuck. Shitstopper, Alice...all we need is Tony and muriken.

Speaking of assholes, anyone seen our favorite weightlifting, surfing, Morgan Fairchild fucking, super cop lately? Been kinda nice around here not having to worry about my dogs getting shot.

[John]

Shreek is just retarded. Alice actually knows the talking points. Reading Alice tells you how progs are going to rationalize this train wreck. And it is going to be "America just didn't care about the uninsured and that is why they hated Obamacare".

[Sevo]

..."Reading Alice tells you how progs are going to rationalize this train wreck. And it is going to be "America just didn't care about the uninsured and that is why they hated Obamacare"."

Exactly. Alice's sleazy lies telegraph just how brain-deads are going to justify failure.
It *won't* be by accepting blame.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Every day at the same time progs plug in their semi-functional brains to the main switchboard in Flin, Flon Manitoba.

[G-dub]

From David Corn over at Mother Jones:

"Obama and his team have done a poor job of promoting his successes, which sometimes are nuanced and complicated."

Hear that everybody? The complexity of Dear Leader's greatness is just lost on us lowly peasants.

[John]

Obama's fault is that he just doesn't talk enough or take enough credit. If Obama would just make his presidency more about him, he would do better.

Wow.

[Killazontherun]

Obama, the Great Post Partisan Pontificator.

THAT IS WHAT THEY REALLY BELIEVE

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Team Obama: There's no problem that can't be solved with a teleprompter and a flashy inforgraphic.

[PapayaSF]

Partisan defenses are so often amusing. We see Democrats claiming that a good Dow Jones number means things are great! I have a Facebook friend whose list of Obama accomplishments included... a commission that he formed! A frackin' commission! The straw, she is grasped....

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he should give another speech.

He does that so well.

[Sevo]

"Obama and his team have done a poor job of promoting his successes, which sometimes are nuanced and complicated."

Well, if you spell "failures" as "nuanced and complicated", there might be a point there.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

That sentence is the main reason I've stopped listening to anyone who lies on the left side of the spectrum.

They're vapid and they're arrogant at the same time.

[Heroic Mulatto]

What?

[Archduke of Pantsfan]

does it come in Men's XXXL?

asking for a friend.

[Archduke of Pantsfan]

Real life 'Breaking Bad' Couple

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

They were sentenced in a British court yesterday to a combined eight years' jail.
Within a year of their first crop, the Wrights were heading a multi-million dollar empire, using Vietnamese immigrants as cheap labour.
Over five years, they produced dope worth nearly $7 million at seven factories across Kent, where they lived.

Why are they going to jail? Sounds like they actually benefited everyone involved: pot-smokers got their pot, the Vietnamese immigrants got jobs and money, and the couple profited.

Judge Michael Carroll acknowledged the role of tragic grief in the couple's downfall, but said their actions were unacceptable.
"It may have affected your judgment and made you more vulnerable but you were an extremely active and involved conspirator," he said of Mr Wright.

Fuck you, asshole. I'm still demanding the state produce a victim.

[Ted S.]

The state didn't get its cut. They consider themselves the victim.

[Archduke of Pantsfan]

David Suzuki says people who disagree with him on climate change should be criminally charged.

[John]

See my link above. Suzuki is profoundly ignorant about the subject. But that won't stop him form demanding people go to jail.

[Sevo]

David Suzuki is beginning to grasp at straws now that the catastrophe seems to be receding in the distance.
He continues to get air time and ink like that charlatan Ehrlich for the same reasons.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

The Aussies on that site seem pretty solidly in support of Suzuki.

[Ted S.]

And there's a huge swath of the intelligentsia that has people like Suzuki at the top of their Rolodex to comment on the issues of the day.

[Anonymous Coward]

"If we don't listen to science, what are we going to turn to ? the Bible? the Qur'an? An advertising agency? Australians are at a very critical time. You had a mechanism where science could be provided, with no commitment one way or the other, so that you could make up your own mind. By shutting that down, what does that tell you?

"Mother Earth is giving you the signals in Australia, loud and clear," he said.

I reject your vengeful cosmic deity with its circumcised priesthood and substitute my vengeful earth deity with its labcoated priesthood.

[Sevo]

"Mother Earth is giving you the signals in Australia, loud and clear," he said."

Anyone who cites "mother earth" is no longer engaged in rational discussion.
That is a purely religious concept; there is NO room in a scientific discussion for a "mother" anything.
Fuck you, Suzuki, with Ehrlich's dick.

[Old Man With Candy]

labcoated priesthood

As a working scientist, I highly resent this. None of those guys has gotten near a lab since perhaps their freshman year in college, much less worn a lab coat (except as a costume).

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Yet he is against nuclear power. The guy is dumb. If you are truly worried about CO2, nuclear power is your ONLY answer. Wind/solar are useless in most places and hydro is reaching its limits of installation.

[Sidd Finch]

It's funny. Everybody understood this my freshman year in college. When I was at [unnamed electric power research ... outfit], everyone understood this. That people who don't understand thermo 101 (and this includes Bailey) dominate media and politics is extremely depressing, even if it's par for the course.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The comments.

My eyes. They burn.

[Archduke of Pantsfan]

The best part of this Cruz thing is how apoplectic twitter is becoming over it.
It's so beautiful!

[Slammer]

Someone said Cruz should start reading the list of HHS waiver recipients.

[Swiss Servator, Spare a Franc?]

That is brilliant!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Sadbeard: Ted Cruz reading Green Eggs & Ham is ironic because it has a progressive message

Admittedly, Green Eggs and Ham lacks the overt left-wing politics of a Butter Battle Book or The Lorax but this is still a progressive book. In broad strokes, it's a book advocating openness to experience?one of the key moral dimensions on which liberals and conservatives differ.

In the specific context of the health care debate, though, I'm reminded of Nancy Pelosi's much-mocked remark that "We have to pass the bill so that you can find our what is in it."
What she was expressing was the idea that while the health reform bill may not have been popular, the health reform law would prove popular in practice once it was in effect. People would like their subsidies and their regulatory protections, and wouldn't want to see them repealed. She was making, specificaly, a kind of Green Eggs and Ham argument. The narrator keeps insisting that he hates green eggs and ham, but he's never had green eggs and ham. When he finally tries them?he likes them!
The Democrats' bet on the Affordable Care Act is that it's like green eggs and ham?they're convinced the public will like it when they try it.

You're a moron, Mr. Yglesias. You really are a fool.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nancy Pelosi is your mom, Barack Obama is your dad. When they tell you to eat your green eggs and ham, it's because they're the parents, you're the child, and they know what's best for you. You are, in no way a rational actor. You are merely a child who needs mommy and daddy government to tell you what to do.

Way to infantilize the American public, Yglesias. Hard to believe someone actually pays him to step on his own dick.

[Alien Invader]

Well. If he can really and actually step on it, I've got a suspicion there are people who'd pay him.

But not for his intellect.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Matthew Yglesias is Slate's business and economics correspondent."

And then Slate publishes that trash?

Who runs that pathetic site anyway?

[Don Mynack]

Can one of the big brain liberals out there explain to me what exactly these billion-dollar "insurance exchanges" are going to do that an insurance broker already does...for free?

[VG Zaytsev]

Give you gubmint subsidies.

[#]

^^this^^

It's basically just a more clunky ehealthinsurance.com except it will connect into all your personal data that various government agencies have on you to determine how big of a government handout you get.

If the handout is bigger than the increase in base premium caused by the law you now get "discounted" insurance. If the handout is smaller that he increase in premium you pay more.

It will all depend on how risky you currently are to insure and what your current income is.

[Sidd Finch]

http://www.economics21.org/com.....rve-upward

Yesterday, over at my Forbes blog, my colleague Chris Conover paid tribute to those three Harvard economists and their favored president, by employing the same arithmetic they did to calculate how much more Americans would spend on health care due to Obamacare. He took the $621 billion, divided by the U.S. population, and multiplied by four.

"Simplistic?" Chris asked. "Maybe, but so too was the President's campaign promise. And this approach allows us to see just how badly that promise fell short of the mark. Between 2014 and 2022, the increase in national health spending (which the Medicare actuaries specifically attribute to the law) amounts to $7,450 per family of 4." Chris put together a chart that compared Obama's 2008 promise to the Obama administration's 2013 projection:

As you might expect, certain corners of the Left were not happy. Igor Volsky of ThinkProgress put up a blog post claiming that Conover's math was "totally wrong," because a couple of pro-Obamacare economists told him so. Paul Van de Water, a progressive budget wonk, "described this calculation as one of the stupidest things he's read in a long time."

[Sidd Finch]

(Van de Water, for reasons unclear, did not offer his assessment of the intelligence of the president or his three Harvard advisers. I asked Judd Legum, the editor of ThinkProgress, if his site had ever run a comparable critique of Obama's 2008 promise; he declined to answer.)

Van de Water told Igor that the cost of college education doesn't increase if the federal government subsidizes college education; therefore, the cost of health care doesn't increase if the federal government subsidizes health care.

[Sevo]

"Van de Water told Igor that the cost of college education doesn't increase if the federal government subsidizes college education; therefore, the cost of health care doesn't increase if the federal government subsidizes health care."

So the concept of 'perverse incentive' is false?

[Sidd Finch]

Who are you to question a progressive budget wonk?

[Alien Invader]

No no no, you're on the entirely wrong track.

To speak of "incentives" is to imply "individuals" exist and that they can actually make choices.

The purpose of socialism (and ObamaCare) is to eliminate the need for choice. Or any sense of individual self, for that matter.

But hey, I'm just a small headed non-liberal alien creature.

[VG Zaytsev]

Van de Water told Igor that the cost of college education doesn't increase if the federal government subsidizes college education

[VG Zaytsev]

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Well at least he has a future in comedy.

[robc]

Van de Water told Igor that the cost of college education doesn't increase if the federal government subsidizes college education

Where has he been the last 30 years? How can a human be that stupid?

[Sevo]

Oh, and Fred over here ( http://www.sfgate.com/news/tex.....838998.php ) is apparently causing some difficulty.
The lefties are now telling him to 'give it a rest' rather than arguing...

[Alien Invader]

Yes, Sen. Ted Cruz Is Still Talking

If only this guy's main ingredients weren't spelled "idiot".

[VG Zaytsev]

Chris Mathews on MSLSD was blowing a gasket, like never before, over Cruz tonight. In less that ten minutes he called or compared Cruz to

1) Slim pickens riding the H-Bomb to glory in Dr Strangelove

2) Joe McCarthy

3) Satan

4) A Stasi agent in East Germany

5) Sarah Palin

6) A tea orrist

7) Saddam Hussein

8) Bull Connor

9) A rich snob that hated non rich kids

10) Huey Long

11) A noveau rich poseur

I thought that Chrissy M was going to stroke out live on TV.

[Pathogen]

"I thought that Chrissy M was going to stroke out live on TV."

We couldn't get that lucky, but I would settle for him inserting a carnivorous earwig in to his ear, to begin to apologize for himself... for our viewing entertainment....

[Tejicano]

That would end up one emaciated little earwig. Hardly a snack in there from what I've heard eminating from its piehole. Do you really hate bugs that much?

[Sidd Finch]

Maybe my rich folk stereotypes are out-of-date, but 9 and 11 seem contradictory.

I'd put the other into two categories.

comparisons only Chris could make:

1,3,6,7,10

comparisons contractually obligated by MSNBC :

2,4,5,8

[Sidd Finch]

Guess what enlightened genius said, "Here's your Monday geography refresher, Kenya is located on the northern coast of Africa."

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/tou.....sly-wrong/

[Pathogen]

What? It's "north-ish", it's certainly further north than... South Africa. You're being pedantic, splitting hairs here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude. Geography is, like, a totally Eurocentric concept and stuff. Toure was too busy doing hard-hitting journalism, interviewing musicians and DJs and such, to study maps that some dead white guy drew at least 100 years ago.

Oh, and...RACISM.

[Pathogen]

Exactly, because while the fuck-ups were wasting their time and money in collage, studying shit like "Geography"... a subject that nobody uses... Toure was grabbing the brass ring, and studying journalism... to our benefit, so he could impart his wisdom on us for the good of humanity... Not like those geography studying mouth-breathers could of cut it in Journalism school anyway...

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What difference does it make anyway where Kenya is? It can be in Asia for all I care. It doesn't take away from his point. All you teabaggers are using this meaningless mistake to project your own racism and ignorance. Why can't you just argue based on the facts?

Oh and way to go misquoting him. Maybe Yglesias can chime in and explain to us why Kenya is actually part of North Africa.

[JeremyR]

I hate to defend him, but a lot of times people mean "Sub-Sahara Africa" as opposed to the literal Africa.

Like you know, African-Americans. They aren't talking about Berbers from North Africa.

In that case, it is in the North part.

[Sidd Finch]

Kenya isn't in "the North part" of SSA unless you ignore Sudan, Eritrea, Somalia, and Ethiopia.

And he said "northern coast" anyways. WTF are you talking about?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

And they call Fox 'faux.'

/pounds head on desk.

[Plopper]

The Green Eggs and Ham reading seems somehow creepy to me and talking about his daughters seems more of a ploy to make him seem like a family man.

"Look I have daughters and I'm talking to them from afar, I must be such a nice nice family man with lots of good ol' family values."

I really don't trust this guy. If he wanted to kill time reading the Constitution or the Federalist Papers or something would have been much more appropriate.

I think he's trying to play sorta like Rand Paul but with a more DeMint type social conservative thing going on...

But maybe I'm just paranoid...

What's his positions on the WoD, mandatory minimums and foreign military interventions?

If it's the typical SoCon dreck plus maybe some lip service to less military spending then I'm staying wary.

[Sidd Finch]

I've relayed your concerns to corner guy. I'll let you know if I hear back. (Note: I only asked him about him specific questions raised by internet commentator Plopper, e.g. "whether he's sorta like Ron Paul but with a more DeMint type social conservative thing going on...

But maybe I'm just paranoid...")

[Plopper]

I'm saying I'm worried he's an establishment hack trying to rise above Rand with the SoCon base.

Not Ron...

[Sidd Finch]

I have now relayed Plopper's concerns about a potential coup de gras regarding some guy (Cluz I think) rising above Rand with some SoCon jiujitsu.

[Plopper]

Well, I do like corner guy. He has good tastes in film. (The Big Lebowski for example).

Maybe corner guy is an indication that Cluz isn't so bad.

[Sidd Finch]

Quit giving a shit about Cruz. He's good now. He'll be mostly awful later. That's how people, especially politicians, work.

The Chinamen is not the issue.

[Tman]

If you are a libertarian minded individual you should be raising a glass to Ted Cruz tonight for standing athwart history yelling stop.

If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything, and Obamacare is a hill worth dying on if you believe that the govt has gone too far. I can't see what else is worth fighting for at this point. Insurance is no longer insurance when you force companies to budget for "pre-existing" conditions. The game is up.

Lose this hill and its over.

[Plopper]

Maybe so, but I just hope what he would replace it with wouldn't be some statist crap either.

Even without Obamacare we've got serious problems with the insurance and health care markets, due to the horrible, just horrible regulatory environment.

I almost think that letting Obamacare get implemented might help turn people away from such solutions. Where when things continue to get worse even without Obamacare everyone will blame it on the "teathuglicans" and libertarians as usual.

[Tman]

I agree with your point that we have other problems besides this one, but "letting Obamacare get implemented" is not only going to destroy what's left of the economy, but will also set a precedent that will irreparably distort the relationship between a "right" and liberty.

Things can always get worse too, I suppose.

[Plopper]

but will also set a precedent that will irreparably distort the relationship between a "right" and liberty.

SCOTUS and congress have already done this as far as I'm concerned.

I think a taste of chaos may be necessary to prod people in the right direction.

[Tman]

"SCOTUS and congress have already done this as far as I'm concerned."

Agreed, which is why I support any and all efforts to reverse it. Defund it, revoke it, shut the whole damn thing down, I don't care. This is a hill worth dying on.

"I think a taste of chaos may be necessary to prod people in the right direction."

The last time that happened was during the Revolution. It's not going to happen again anytime soon.

[Nando]

how dare poor people think they should have access to affordable medical care!

I SAID HOW DARE THEY

[Plopper]

I don't mean that level of chaos... just a "taste".

[Tman]

That won't be enough, and by then it will be too late, which is my point.

[Plopper]

Also... I don't just mean Obamacare being passed by congress and stamped as OK by SCOTUS... I mean Medicare, Medicaid, SS etc etc etc.

I was very very scared and argued a lot with people who were pro Obamacare and pro "Public Option", before it passed...

Now though, I just feel defeated and want them to taste the pain.

[Nando]

Incinerate the Poor. Women are brood mares & nothing more. #MakeDCListen #StandWithCruz

[Sidd Finch]

WTF? It's still 'fatten up the poor' season.

[Anonymous Coward]

How can we fatten up the poor when they are "food insecure"?

[Sidd Finch]

GMO's dude. How is this not obvious?

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Make me a sammich.

[Nando]

Ted Cruz has now stood on his feet and talked for eight hours. Or, as anyone with a minimum wage job calls it, "a day shift."

[Pathogen]

Sooo... you stand on your feet at work for 8hrs at a time?

[Nando]

I did when I was minimum wage.

[Pathogen]

How long do you stand on your feet at work now?

[Sidd Finch]

however long it takes to get a tub of ice cream from his mom's refrigerator?

[Anonymous Coward]

Trick question is obvious. Nando went from spending eight hours a day on his fee to spending eight hours on his knees.

[Pathogen]

His "employers" don't provide health insurance (maybe a condom)... I'm beginning to understand his conundrum now...

[Nando]

I don't see how that changes my opinion on the working poor?

[Sidd Finch]

What about those who work "the night shift?" What do they call it?

[Nando]

Hard.

[Sidd Finch]

Maybe if they weren't so damn soft, the act of 'standing up' for '8 whole hours' wouldn't be so hard.

[Nando]

There's nothing soft about standing for 8 hours a day. What are you smoking?

[Sidd Finch]

I stand all day because sitting hurts my back. It's at most a mild inconvenience.

[Nando]

so what makes Cruz's speech so profound?

[Pathogen]

Define "profound", in your opinion...

[Nando]

if you don't know what words mean, why are you talking with adults?

[Pathogen]

If you can't answer a straight forward question, why are *you* talking with adults?

[Nando]

I find Cruz's rambling pointless.
The point of the blog post is that his talking has some relevance.
What say you?

[Pathogen]

I haven't heard his speech, but I suspect the purpose of his inane ramblings transcend the content... Who knows...

[Sidd Finch]

Wait ... what? I haven't even hear Cruz's speech.

[Pathogen]

Filibusterers?

[SIV]

And to think Nick Gillespie called Ted Cruz a xenophobic bum.

[Pathogen]

It's probably Ted's lack of fashion pizzazz... I've never seen Cruz wearing a leather jacket...

[Plopper]

What are his positions on the WoD and immigration?

If he's still on board with mandatory minimums etc then I don't really have much praise for the guy.

Correct me if I am wrong about his positions though.

[Sidd Finch]

then I don't really have much praise for the guy.

WTF. He's doing good now. He'll do awful later. Just like all the other politicians. And frankly, like all other humans. Attempting to put humans in 'the good bin' and 'the bad bin' is mostly pointless.

[Plopper]

Attempting to put humans in 'the good bin' and 'the bad bin' is mostly pointless.

Probably so...

[VG Zaytsev]

And to think Nick Gillespie called Ted Cruz a xenophobic bum. For the same reason that the Beltway bubbloids hate Cruz.

He doesn't give a shit about the cocktail partiez.

[Nando]

Strange that a Canadian-Cuban like Cruz would fight against health care 🙂

I guess, for the tea baggers, it's best if people who can't afford health care just die.

Remember, all members of Congress and the Senate have full, 100% taxpayer paid health care. Cruz might be accused of having principles if he was looking to vote that down as well.

[Pathogen]

"I guess, for the tea baggers, it's best if people who can't afford health care just die."

Like when you go to the death panels rationing boards, because the government can't afford your health care and would prefer you just die.

[JeremyR]

So basically like what people without insurance do now? Or those with awful insurance?

There is X amount of health care. Right now there is enough to go around because a good portion of the country doesn't have access to it.

For a good portion of this country, the only help for health care is either go to a free clinic and hope you win the lottery to get treatment (which you probably won't) or go to an emergency room and stiff the hospital when they send you an enormous bill (pretending to be an illegal alien helps)

Now it's certainly true that Obamacare likely won't change this much, and will likely reduce X by making medical care more expensive and discouraging doctors from working as hard or young people from becoming doctors in the first place. But let's not pretend that the current health care system in this country is anything but a disaster.

[PM]

So basically like what people without insurance do now? Or those with awful insurance?

The price mechanism != a central government rationing scheme. It's the difference between passing on buying bread because it goes up to $30/loaf and having to sit in a bread line for 12 hours and be told to go home because there's not enough bread to go around. If you can't recognize the difference, the fall of communist Russia must be positively baffling for you.

In point of fact, a lot of the reason the current health care system is so dysfunctional is because of the already existing massive distortions of government in the health care market.

[PM]

I guess, for the tea baggers, it's best if people who can't afford health care just die.

Your shtick is 4 years old. It's high time for some new material. Refresh your RSS feeds once in a while FFS.

[Fluffy]

We already have a program for people who can't afford health care.

It's called Medicaid.

Obamacare is about brutalizing people who have made the economically rational decision to not buy insurance (especially community-rated insurance) to bring down premiums for people who, frankly, actuarially don't deserve lower premiums and who haven't exhausted their resources enough to qualify for Medicaid.

I don't see why I should go along with that or consider it fair. I don't like Medicaid either, so you can always say, "You libertarians also hate Medicaid!" but I think in the interest of intellectual honesty we should be precise in this discussion. Obamacare is not about providing health care for the poor, because that's what Medicaid is about. Obamacare included a provision expanding Medicaid, but if that was ALL the bill was, it wouldn't be called Obamacare and it wouldn't be seen as transformative. It would just be a qualifications tweak for an existing program, like the SNAP expansion was.

[#]

It would be nice if all these lefties could point to all these alleged people dying in the streets, wouldn't it?

[#]

The other thing that is quite remarkable too are all the studies that show on average having medicaid does nothing for your health levels relative to not having insurance. Because in either case you still get emergency care, but neither does anything for your general health on average.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Jesus Christ nando you're one vapid individual.

FYI: I'm Canadian. Not all of us are enamored with public health.

[Jon Lester]

Still going at 5:07.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Whoever is screwing up reasonable with their email linked name, fuck off.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Replying to get that username with an email address link out of reasonable.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Again

[eyeroller]

Holy crap! Cruz just said we need to end farm subsidies!

Ha ha ha, just kidding.

[Rich]

He just mentioned "briar patch". What a RACIST!