Update: Seventh Graders Now Expelled For Playing With Pellet Gun Off School Grounds

One being homeschooled, other going to alternative school

WAVY

The Hampton Roads NBC affiliate WAVY reports an update on the students who were suspended after a neighbor made "uncomfortable" by the teenagers playing with fake guns called 911 on them. They've now been expelled. Via WAVY:

During a hearing Tuesday morning, Aidan Clark and Khalid Caraballo were expelled in a unanimous vote. Clark was offered the option of attending an alternative school, but his father, Tim, told WAVY News' Andy Fox he will be homeschooled. 

Caraballo will attend an alternative school.

Your American education system.

Reason on homeschooling and on zero tolerance.

Update: WAVY reports the actual school letter states the students received "long-term suspension" (until the end of the school year), with another hearing in January to determine whether they can return, which the parents rightly note feels a lot like an expulsion.

Comments

[Jordan]

That's how government institutions work. Political concerns always trump results. Coming soon to healthcare!

[SugarFree]

It's upsetting to go through, but in the end I think Aiden will be better off for getting away from idiot-polluted public education for at least a year.

[Tonio]

This would be a good PR opportunity for a private school to offer him free tuition for a year. Of course Hampton Roads is lousy with fundies so he might be worse off in some ways than in a public school.

[Swiss Servator, Spare a Franc?]

Your tolerance is noted.

[Tonio]

Yes, that was directed at you. Glad the message was received.

FWIW I've often spoken out for the free speech rights of the Phelps clan here even though they'd love to have legal cover to be able to kill me.

[jasno]

I'd give $100 towards a scholarship for kids kicked out of school for offending hoplophobes with imaginary weapons or responsible weapon use. Does the NRA have something like this setup yet?

[radar]

Tar. Feathers. Some assembly required. I'd pull my kids out of those schools riki-tik.

[sarcasmic]

That might happen in a free country. However no such place exists.

[ChrisO]

Yet another example of why Peak Stupid can never be reached.

I agree that these kids are probably better off by not being in the public schools. My child is a little over a year old, and I'm trying to figure out ways we can afford to not have him spend years in the Government Indoctrination Centers.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Same position. We're just going for it and having my wife stay home while I become the sole income producer.

She is a Federal employee, so she hates her work and doesn't find it meaningful, so that helps.

[Fatty Bolger]

Expelled for doing something in their own yard? Da fuck?

[Zeb]

That's what bothers me the most about this. The school should have nothing to do with anything that the kids do when not actually under the direct supervision of the school. I fucking hate the idea that schools should somehow have any control over what kids do outside of school.
The idiocy about guns is troubling too, but at least that's just private people being stupid on their own.
I don't know how any parents are not outraged that the school would overreach like this.

[John]

I think they have a law suit over this. Going to school is a property right. They can't kick you out of a government school without some kind of due process. That means they have to follow their own rules. They can't point to a rule the kids violated here. It is not against school rules to play with air soft guns at home.

They will no doubt try to say that since they were waiting for a school bus, the rules applied. But they would have to show that kids and parents were put on notice of this. Also, have they ever tried to enforce school rules at bus stops before?

All of the zero tolerance and gun rules apply to school grounds. This is not school grounds. My guess is some attorney is going to get a nice settlement check out of this.

[SugarFree]

I fucking hate the idea that schools should somehow have any control over what kids do outside of school.

That ship sailed when they were allowed to drug test students. There was a never a burden placed on schools to prove that the drugs were consumed on campus or even during school hours off campus.

[John]

That is a great point. And what a clusterfuck of theft and authoritarianism that is. There is no evidence such tests accomplish anything. But they cost a fortune that no doubt goes right into some crony who runs the testing company's pocket.

[General Butt Naked]

The drug tests were only allowed to be mandated for extra-curricular activities though. It could be argued that you don't have the right to play baseball as you have the right to access public education.

[Cdr Lytton]

Yeah, but the testing isn't even in relation to the activity under Earls. Any extracircular activity, chess club or debate team, is good enough for a piss test.

Note that Vernonia School District instituted the drug testing in Acton not because of use in sports or performance enhancing drugs but because there was a general drug problem in the school and the jocks were seen as the "leaders of the drug culture".

[Rasilio]

"That ship sailed when they were allowed to drug test students. There was a never a burden placed on schools to prove that the drugs were consumed on campus or even during school hours off campus.'

Not really, one can easily have a policy of not allowing anyone with even trace amounts of drugs in their bodies be a student there without any concerns for how , when, or where the drugs got into their bodies because their mere presence on school grounds with trace amounts of drugs inside them is in violation of that policy.

[Gindjurra]

Expelling anyone with prescription drugs in their system would seem to be discriminating against people for having medical conditions, a big no-no.

Given all the state initiatives to legalize certain drugs for prescription use that the feds absolutely prohibit (marijuana/THC being the most common), it's entirely possible that sooner or later a school will kick someone out for being sick and undergoing medical treatment. I know it has almost happened already with diabetics.

[UnCivilServant]

I want to see a lawsuit on this one - name the caller, the cops, the school officials and the district as defendants.

[Drake]

That or just burn down their house.

[Zeb]

Leave the caller out, or you are just being a dick. Private people are allowed to be morons. The police and the school should be held to a higher standard.

[Fatty Bolger]

Maybe, but calling 911 to report toy gun use because it "makes people uncomfortable" is an abuse of the emergency system.

[Drake]

Bullshit, one of my neighbors calls the cops on my kids doing something harmless in my yard? They better have their head on a swivel - bad shit will be happening.

[Zeb]

And you will go to jail. That'll do your kids a lot of good.

[Drake]

Nope

[General Butt Naked]

You don't think the neighbor that calls the cops over kids playing will call if you beat the shit out of them?

[Gindjurra]

That's why you goad them into swinging first. If they don't go for it, provocative language is just a citation in a lot of places.

[Old Man With Candy]

My kid would learn a lesson- if you plan well and execute your plan calmly and precisely, you can have your revenge, the revengee will know who did it, and no-one can ever prove it.

[Tonio]

One would imagine that there are a lot of third parties who might take it upon themselves to express their displeasure at the neighbor's actions.

[Gindjurra]

Wouldn't even have to be physical displeasure. Just about everybody breaks the law every day, there's so many laws now even folks with doctorates in law can't avoid it reliably. Call the cops on them every time you see them break the law.

[Seamus]

"Officer, it makes me very uncomfortable to see her pull from her driveway to the street without coming to a full stop before proceeding onto the road, as she is required to do by section 46.2-826 of the Code of Virginia."

[Zeb]

Though perhaps the caller should be charged with false 911 calls or something as she apparently knew all along that they were airsoft guns and didn't pose any real danger to anyone.

[jesse.in.mb]

It just goes to show how insensitive libertarians are. SHE (and others [potentially]) WAS UNCOMFORTABLE.

That's as real as any danger, Zeb.

[sarcasmic]

It's technically a violation of legislation though (I say 'violation of legislation' because I draw a distinction between law and stupid rules written and enforced by stupid people).

[Gindjurra]

The only natural laws are the right to take anything you're strong enough to take and the right to die if something stronger than you comes along.

Everything else is legislation.

[robc]

People are allowed to be morons. People are allowed to call out people for being morons.

[Zeb]

Absolutely. I'm all for calling that person a moron and publicly shaming them. I just don't think suing them will do any good.

[Drake]

Might cover the cost of private school.

[Fatty Bolger]

But it would make the parents FEEL better, and as I'm sure the neighbor would agree, that's the only important thing.

[MJGreen]

I'm comfortable with being a dick to dicks.

Don't call 911 because you see a kid playing with what you know is a toy gun.

[Zeb]

I like to keep that higher ground.

[Gindjurra]

Given how many things are illegal these days, you can make a bad neighbor's life quite hard without telling a single lie to any government official.

Any adult who calls 911 because kids are playing with toys deserves the full weight of the bureaucracy landing on their heads.

[Tonio]

I wonder if the neighbor could be sued for the cost of private school tuition?

[Bean Counter]

BULLSHIT!!! Some guy dies of a heart attack while whiny bitch is wasting the 911 operator's time. Maybe she should call 911 when Burger King messes up her order, too.

[The Late P Brooks]

Once upon a time, I might have been surprised.

ALL YOUR CHILD ARE BELONG TO US!

[Specail Sauce]

It takes a village.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Interestingly, Virginia Beach, VA went (albeit slightly) for Romney.

http://www.politico.com/2012-e...../virginia/

[Tonio]

It's an interesting area. Lots of flakey hippies (Edgar Cayce center), lots of fundies (Pat Robertson's various enterprises), lots of military.

[Tim]

Guns are bad.

[Almanian!]

Mmm'kay

[Gindjurra]

So are books. Without them the Boston Marathon attack would have been impossible.

Repeal the first amendment today!

[Episiarch]

What are the grounds for the expulsion? Do public schools even have to pretend to not do things on a whim any more?

It's for the best. Putting your kids in public school at this point is tantamount to child abuse.

[John Thacker]

If you look at the article, they've updated it with the school district claiming that it's not expulsion, it's only a "long-term suspension." The parents, understandably, are continuing to view it as expulsion since it amounts to the same thing.

[Fatty Bolger]

Hmm, sounds like legal is getting involved, and they're not liking this whole "expulsion over something not even remotely related to school" thing.

[R C Dean]

Can't imagine they are going to be much happier with "long-term suspension over something not even remotely related to school", either.

[Gindjurra]

If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?

Four. Because calling a thing something it's not doesn't change reality.

A suspension for the entire school year that you need permission to come back from next year is a fancy way of saying expulsion.

[Drake]

We have a Junior in Catholic HS and a 7th grader in the local public school.

We are considering 3 HS options for the 7th Grader - the shitty regional public high school not being one of them.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Under the law as I understand it once your child leaves the door for the school bus the school can discipline them. This can actually make some sense, as it is not uncommon for a bus stop to be located at the private property of the family of an attending child.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

This can actually make no sense, unless the bus drives into the yard to pick up students.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

So students waiting at the bus stop cannot be disciplined by the school? I mean, they are there because the school has designated that spot and told them to be there.

[Brett L]

So? I am unaware that the schools were empowered to force children to ride the bus. Think this through. My district only ran buses for people living more than two miles from schools. Would children walking or riding a bicycle to school be under the school's power on their commute?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

If you want your child to ride the bus the school tells your child they have to stand at this designated place with other children and wait for it. Of course they should be able to discipline one of the other children if they harm your child while there.

'Would children walking or riding a bicycle to school be under the school's power on their commute?'

Yes, that is the law.

[Brett L]

You're a lawyer, cite statute or GTFO.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

There are statutes such as the one, infra, but in many states it is found in case law.

'violation of district school board transportation policies, including disruptive behavior on a school bus or at a school bus stop, by a student is grounds for suspension of the student's privilege of riding on a school bus and may be grounds for disciplinary action by the school and may also result in criminal penalties being imposed.'

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Sta.....06.07.html

[Bo Cara Esq.]

In fact, many states and jurisdictions have laws which punish students for off-grounds speech behavior! When challenged they are challenged on the grounds of speech.

[Tonio]

Um, that's from Florida, Bo. This happened in Virginia.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Yes, I know. Brett L asked for a statute, that was the first one that came up on a quick google search. I would be quite surprised if Virginia did not have a similar law/ordinance, or have a regulation to that effect or more likely have that in precedential case law.

[Tonio]

The fancy lawyers have the Westlaw, Brett.

[R C Dean]

violation of district school board transportation policies . . . may also result in criminal penalties being imposed.

Wow. You can be criminally charged for violating school district transportation policies? The lege actually delegated the authority to create criminal offenses to each and every school district?

Thats just, bugfuck nuts, is what that is.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Your front door is not a bus stop.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Where would you draw the line around the actual bus stop where the school's authority begins?

[UnCivilServant]

When they board the bus.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

So if your child gets beaten at the bus stop before the bus comes, no discipline? He was there because the school told him he had to be.

[UnCivilServant]

That was the way it was when I went to school, I expect no different for anything I might whelp.

[KDN]

Me too. The bus stop before school was THE place for fights, mainly because you wouldn't get in trouble. If it was that big of a deal one of the parents would step in, but usually it's just boys being boys and fighting over any stupid thing that happened (NUH UH! I CLIMBED HIGHER! **Punch**)

[Brett L]

What are you talking about? No one is saying that the assault is not subject to any jurisdiction, just not the school's. So what if he was there because the school told him to be there if he wants a ride to school

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The jurisdiction says the child has to go to school. It gives him a right to transportation, and for many this is the only way to meet the obligation imposed on them. This creates the custody relationship where schools can discipline students.

[Rasilio]

If my child were beaten at a bus stop (on a city street) my first stop would be the police and I would be pressing assault charges, my second stop would be a lawyer and his parents would be facing a rather large lawsuit, my 3rd stop would be to the school to inform them them that my child has my permission to actively defend himself using any means necessary from that (those) attacker(s) and it may be in their best interests if they keep those parties FAR away from my child for their own good.

School discipline would never enter into the equation.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

I suppose it might depend on the definition of "beating," but that approach sounds a lot like the litigiousness and increased police involvement in life that are helping to fuck us all.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Oh, do not misunderstand me. I think the law allows schools to discipline students when they are somewhere for a school purpose, but that does not mean they should react in a hysterical fashion (as was done in this case). This incident seemed to warrant, at most, a 'talking to' by the bus driver or a teacher or school official.

[General Butt Naked]

I think if it's mutual combat there shouldn't be any charges, but if one child assaults another child they should be subject to the same laws that adults are.

[Brandon]

So if your child gets beaten at the bus stop before the bus comes, no discipline?

Well, I would probably slap him around a little bit for being a pussy...oh, you meant official discipline? Sure, just like legalizing drugs wouldn't invalidate laws against assault or robbery, you don't have to give incompetent power-hungry school employees unlimited power to punish in order to have a deterrent from violence. Assault is still assault. Have the perpetrator arrested. Or handle it with the little shit's parents. There is no reason to involve the school just because it is at a bus stop.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Is it on school property? No? Then it has nothing to do with the school.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

So no discipline for behavior during field trips?

[Kaptious Kristen]

So normal assault laws don't apply at a bus stop? Only schools, not the legal system, can provide punishments to minors? If a cop drove by a bus stop and witnessed an assault, the officer would just say "Oh well, that's the school's jurisdiction!" and keep on driving?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Of course they also apply, see the language of the FL statute supra:

'grounds for suspension of the student's privilege of riding on a school bus and may be grounds for disciplinary action by the school and may also result in criminal penalties being imposed.'

[R C Dean]

That language doesn't say that criminal penalties may be imposed for violating criminal law.

It says they can be imposed for violating school district transportation policies.

[matth]

If a child behaves in such a way to indicate that he will be a danger to other kids at school then I totally support suspension or expulsion for activities outside of school.

That said, playing with an airsoft gun? Give me a fucking break.

[Byron]

"If a child behaves in such a way to indicate that he will be a danger to other kids at school then I totally support suspension or expulsion for activities outside of school."

Then you're a statist moron.

[Tonio]

On school property or part of a school function. On the bus, yes. Waiting for the bus, no. And I know the law may say otherwise, but the law is often an ass.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Waiting for the school bus to come take you to school at the school designated area is not 'part of a school function?'

[Swiss Servator, Spare a Franc?]

Why are you all wasting your time with this tail chasing? This is law student nonsense.

[KDN]

This is law student nonsense.

Bo Cara should probably just make that his handle.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

'Fancy law talk'n,' eh?

[R C Dean]

What if your folks are going to take you to school, but you hang with your friends at the bus stop? Are you subject to school transportation rules then?

How far does the school's jurisdiction extend from the bus stop sign?

Is the school's jurisdiction 24/7, or does it end each day when the bus picks up the kids?

Seriously, I see no way to put any kind of defensible boundaries or definitions around this assertion of authority.

[Robert]

Sign? School bus stops that I'm familiar with are unmarked and subject to arrangement.

[Gindjurra]

If waiting for the bus is part of a school function, then so would being driven to school by a parent.

You could even argue fairly convincingly that if the kid would sleep in (or watch cartoons) in the morning instead of getting ready to go to school, then everything from the moment they wake up that morning would also be a school function.

Then there's going to bed early on a school night. Hmm, that covers everything from bed time to waking up in the morning.

There just isn't any end to it. Once you start stretching the definition of a school function, it never stops and the school acquires infinite authority over the children, overriding parental authority at all times. In loco parentis becomes in supra parentis.

[UnCivilServant]

Given the amount of time prior to the school day these kids were fooling around, they couldn't be strictly classified as 'waiting for the bus' If the stop were directly by the house, the scope of control would be the time it takes to walk from the door to the curb under the bus stop principle.

[robc]

They were in their own yard, not the bus stop.

Or, at least, one of the boys yard.

So, they hadnt left the "door" yet.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

You have a door in your front yard?

[UnCivilServant]

Yes, don't judge me! It's surrealist art!

[robc]

You have a door in your front yard?

Technically, yes, if you count the porch as part of the yard. Which might mean, technically, no.

My point is, property is property. Inside the house or outside. The "leave the door" is bullshit. As long as the kid is on his property, he hasnt left yet.

[Drake]

Or, they intended to go back inside and put away the toys before getting on the bus.

[R C Dean]

I don't even know how they define a "bus stop" for purposes of determining whether something happened at the bus stop.

In either space (what are the boundaries of the bus stop) or time (if I give a kid a noogie next to the bus stop sign on Saturday afternoon, have I violated school policies?).

[Byron]

There is most often not a sign at school bus stops. What if you didn't even know the bus stopped there?

It's a custodial issue in my mind. Until my child boards the bus or sets foot on school property, their discipline is wholly out of the school's hands.

[Episiarch]

That actually makes no sense, New Tulpa. Thanks for bringing the stupid as always.

[Andrew S.]

I'm not quite sure even Tulpa could make an argument that makes this little sense. Which is quite a feat.

[SugarFree]

Tulpa brings a gun to a snowball fight.

[Fatty Bolger]

He sounds more like "New MNG" to me.

[General Butt Naked]

You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to, but a nit-picking devil's advocate smells lame by any name.

[Clich? Bandit]

I'm tellin' ya

[sarcasmic]

City Code 38-3, primarily section (d) " Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, it shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any firearm, spring-propelled rifle or pistol, from, on, across or within one hundred fifty (150) yards of any building, dwelling, street, sidewalk, alley, roadway or public land or public place within the city limits."

[UnCivilServant]

Aren't these gas powered though?

[Drake]

Spring usually.

[UnCivilServant]

I've only owned real firearms, not airsoft, so I mistakenly concluded that the 'air' in the name referred to method of propulsion.

[WTF]

Some airsoft guns are gas-powered.

[sarcasmic]

It was one of those cheap-ass plastic things with a spring in it that shoots foam pellets about fifteen feet. Very dangerous. I mean, you could, well, um, er, uh...

[radar]

There are many of us, however, who don't have the scratch to send our kids to private schools, and since we both work homeschooling isn't the answer either.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

It depends on how old/responsible they are. It's feasible to homeschool even if both parents work, depending on the kids.

[radar]

True. The boy just started kindergarten, though, so it's a non-starter for now.

We've actually gone back and forth on this, as my wife could cut back to part time and we could probably just barely keep our heads above water, but things would be mighty tight. In other words, it could be possible to make it work but extremely difficult. So long as nothing ludicrous like this happens in our school district, we'll hang in there. Academically it IS a very good district, which is why we spent so much goddamned money to buy a house here when we could have bought a much bigger one for the same money elsewhere.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Yeah, kindergarten would be a non-starter. It's a tough position, but at least you can do some unteaching of the crap from school and some additional teaching without its having to be all or none.

Everything we did financially was built around the idea that my kids would never attend a public school, no matter how good it was reputed to be. Once their private school grew to the point where it had to be dumbed down to support the expanded student body -- it was still better than public schools but not enough so to justify the cost, imo -- we went to homeschooling.

[radar]

Oh, definitely. We work on phonics every night. At Meet the Teacher night, she explained how they don't do spelling tests because kids don't really learn to spell - they only memorize it for the test. Um, yeah, bullshit. We're doing spelling tests in our house.

[The Late P Brooks]

It would be amusing to see the costs of sending the kids to private school imposed on the hysterical moron who called the pigs.

[radar]

That would be awesome. If that worked, I'd encourage my kids to get expelled the same way! haha

[Ken Shultz]

I blame the voters.

They're the ones that tolerate these a-holes.

[SugarFree]

What was the case of the high school student who was suspended for a protest sign or rally off campus? I want to say it went to SCOTUS.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Morse v. Frederick

http://www.law.cornell.edu/sup.....78.ZS.html

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Thomas' concurrence in that case is especially chilling:

'In light of the history of American public education, it cannot seriously be suggested that the First Amendment "freedom of speech" encompasses a student's right to speak in public schools. Early public schools gave total control to teachers, who expected obedience and respect from students. And courts routinely deferred to schools' authority to make rules and to discipline students for violating those rules.'

[Zeb]

Completely ignoring the fact that the student was not on school property and was 18 at the time (if I recall correctly).

[SugarFree]

Thomas is obsessed with teachers being able to violation the constitutional rights of students. It's slipped over into a creepy area of fetishization.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

As I said above, it has been long established law that students at a place for a school-related purpose are subject to school discipline, whether they are on school property or not. Otherwise the schools could not punish people for fighting at the bus stop or stealing on a field trip.

Having said, the case should have been decided on free speech grounds. His speech was hardly disruptive under Tinker and other precedent.

[Zeb]

I think that ought not to apply in this case. He wasn't at a school sponsored activity. He was across the street from a school sponsored activity, and hadn't been to school that day. So he wasn't under the school's supervision and was just another person from town attending the event.

[SugarFree]

Ah, yes. Bong Hits 4 Jesus. Thanks.

[Zeb]

"Bong Hits For Jesus"!

[The Late P Brooks]

I want to say it went to SCOTUS.

Bong hit for Jeezis?

[The Late P Brooks]

This can actually make some sense, as it is not uncommon for a bus stop to be located at the private property of the family of an attending child.

Wrong.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Your argument is almost as compelling as Episarch's, supra.

[UnCivilServant]

Whereas yours has no outer bound for the authority of school officials.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

So far I have only stated what the current law is, and that there is 'some sense to it.' But, of course, it does have an outer bound, a rather explicit one as a matter of fact.

[RickC]

I hope the makers of those airsoft pellet guns own kids get shot with one of those pellets.
We need to ban toy guns to prevent these sorts of incidents.
Fer the chillinz.

[UnCivilServant]

I'd wager that most of those children have already been shot with airsoft guns - while wielding them themselves!

[radar]

Only horrible Teathuglicans don't recognize the extreme danger of military-grade assault pellet AR-15s.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

As mentioned, Virginia Beach, VA went for Romney. I also found it has a Republican mayor. It is likely the school board is majority Republican.

[Raston Bot]

fuck the cunt that narced on him. stupid loser bitch.

[Jordan]

I'm trying to think of the approriate revenge. Maybe sprinkle some marijuana seeds in her car and call the cops.

[SugarFree]

Write "CUNT" in her front yard with bleach.

It's not libel if it's true.

[Brett L]

Does she have dogs? Because I'm not down with dogs being shot just because their owner is an asshole.

[Brett L]

The kid in the pic is even wearing eye protection. He won't even shoot his eye out.

[The Late P Brooks]

it shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any firearm, spring-propelled rifle or pistol, from, on, across or within one hundred fifty (150) yards of any building, dwelling, street, sidewalk, alley, roadway or public land or public place within the city limits.

In other words, NOT IN OUR TOWN.

Is this a great country, or what?

[John]

It would be nice if liberals would ever play the race card when it actually should be played. Someone should ask these assholes if given the plight of young black males, it is a good idea to be expelling another young black man for such a stupid offense, even if you consider it to be an offense at all. I thought it was racist not to try and help black men? Isn't this board profiling?

[Alack]

From the article:

[The principal's] investigation found the "children were firing pellet guns at each other, and at people near the bus stop." The letter from Delaney says one child "was only 10 feet from the bus stop, and ran from the shots being fired, but was still hit."

and

Section (f) "No person shall use a pneumatic gun in the area of the city described in (a) above except (i) at approved shooting ranges or (ii) on or within private property with permission of the owner or legal possessor thereof when conducted with reasonable care to prevent a projectile from crossing the bounds of the property[...]The discharge of projectiles across or over the bounds of the property shall create the rebuttable presumption that the use of the pneumatic gun was not conducted with reasonable care and shall constitute a Class 3 misdemeanor.

The kids didn't have the property owner's permission (parent says they were disobeyed) and the pellets crossed property bounds and hit other students. There's more to this than "kid suspended for having airsoft gun on property"; they committed (but weren't charged with) a crime, which doesn't seem like an overly-terrible reason for suspension. I'm totally on board with arguing that the school's punishment was too harsh or that the ordinance is stupid, though.

[Andrew S.]

I'm worried about next year with my daughter when she starts Kindergarten.

On the one hand, I would rather do anything than send her to public school.

On the other, homeschooling is not an option, and as much as I'd like to be able to afford private school, $15k-$20k a year for Kindergarten would be ... a bit much for my budget.

There are two very good charter schools in our area. Unfortunately those have a lottery system, and it's not easy to get in. Fingers crossed there.

Otherwise I'm going to have to send her to public school and spend time un-indoctrinating her.

[sarcasmic]

That's where I'm at as well. The only options round here for private schools are an unaccredited Baptist cult, or an academy with tuition costs roughly equal to my salary. So public schools it is.

[radar]

We do the unbrainwashing thing every day. And phonics too - fucking "writing to read" bullshit.

[Snark Plissken]

I attended 2nd and 3rd grade in Falls Church, VA and remember their obsession with petty rules and general fascist attitude towards boyish behavior in general, so they seem to be ahead of the curve on this.

[John]

Public schools are run by feminists. They are utterly hostile towards boys and do as much damage to boys as possible.

[UnCivilServant]

When did this happen, my public school was run by rascists who hated white people.

[John]

Must have been quite a school you went to. The hatred of men started in the 90s I think.

[UnCivilServant]

Oh, we had no one hired that recently. The staff were all too stubborn to retire.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

This school district is almost undoubtedly run by Republicans. It has a Republican mayor. The locality went for Romney in a Presidential election. Republicans usually do even better in off year elections. The board that decided this was very likely Republicans.

[Seamus]

That may be so, but if it is, I'm betting that the school board spends most of its energy trying to hold in check the prog tendencies of nearly all the teachers and administrators who work for the school system. (I was on the board of a local charitable organization a couple of years back, and most of my fellow board members were political conservatives who just wanted to provide assistance to the needy. We spent a lot of our efforts reining in staff directors who wanted to turn the organization into a political lobbying/Alinskyite community organizing group (while boosting their own status in "the community")).

[radar]

My son's only been in kindergarten a month, and this is already becoming obvious.

[John C. Randolph]

I went to high school in Fairfax county,class of '82, and looking back on it, the administration was pretty laid back. The only semi-serious confrontation I recall was one vice-principal trying to prevent me from leaving the school grounds for lunch (after I turned 18). He backed down when I asked if he intended to physically prevent me from leaving.

-jcr

[The Late P Brooks]

I've only owned real firearms, not airsoft, so I mistakenly concluded that the 'air' in the name referred to method of propulsion.

I have "spring-actuated" BB gun in which the spring operates a piston with a rubber seal in a cylinder to create a compressed air charge which propels the BBs. So, both.

[The Late P Brooks]

"children were firing pellet guns at each other, and at people near the bus stop." The letter from Delaney says one child "was only 10 feet from the bus stop, and ran from the shots being fired, but was still hit."

Boys, being boys.

Guilty as Charged.

[Robert]

I see HyR supports recycling.

[UnCivilServant]

It always has, haven't you seen how the Squirrels re-use posts?

[scape]

School to families: You kids stay out of your yard.

[Tim]

"Next to me in the blackness lay my oiled blue steel beauty. The greatest Christmas gift I had ever received, or would ever receive. Gradually, I drifted off to sleep, pranging ducks on the wing and getting off spectacular hip shots. "

[Francisco d Anconia]

Okay Ed, why haven't you posted the contact information of the administrators responsible for this decision?

Why do you make me do all the gruntwork?

[Francisco d Anconia]

Call the fuckers here.

Email the superintendent here.

Or [e-mail]

[Wind Rider]

Want another way to get in trouble in Va Beach? Head for the beach, and proclaim loudly at the Boardwalk "The goddamned suspension of those kids was a mother fucking tragedy. Fucking assholes".

If you aren't within earshot of a cop, then it's a safe bet that a concern troll will gladly call them to arrest you.

They're too progressive in VB to be bothered that their neat and tidy system which plays sorta ok most times on TV really pretty much ignores the concepts on some old barely readable sheepskin, written by a bunch of dead white guys.

And why I no longer live there, and cannot be paid enough to return, even for a visit. They've had 450 years to fuck that place up, and that's pretty much the major accomplishment by the descendants of morons that burned down their own town to keep federals that didn't even want to mess with the damned place would set foot in it.

[Loki]

What the fucking fuck!? What kind of pants shitting retarded asshole (answered my own question) would call the cops on a couple of kids playing with pellet guns? Seriously, did the neighbor want the kids to get shot? God, dammit, people are such a bunch shitheels!

[Almanian!]

As I sometimes need to say to my colleagues on the operating committee at work, "I'm just saying that I'd rather be HIS lawyer right now...."

I'd sue the mother FUCK out of the school district:

- not their jurisdiction
- my private property and rights
- denying my children gummint edumacation
- um, some other shit
- also, RACIST

As Old Mex noted earlier, I'd also make sure that fucking neighbor slept with one eye open forever more. And they'd never be able to pin it on me...

Fuck those assholes.

[John C. Randolph]

also, RACIST

If the kid's black and the raving bureaucrats are white and male, that might carry some weight.

-jcr

[PowerBottom]

"We have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents"

-Melissa Harris Perry

[Troy muy grande boner]

Enough with that hang wringing. This is the future. Given the plasticity of the law and legal reasoning I'm not sure whether litigation will do any good. So just shut up, get in line, and do as you are told.

[DWC]

Aren't they air soft guns? Which are very, very different from pellet guns. Some "pellet guns" (air rifles) can and have been used to hunt and kill bison.

[Agile Cyborg]

Air soft pellets can erase vision in an eye if pointed so and so. But for the large part air soft is only fun when the pellets are designed to hit one directly. Wearing eye protection and putting principals in schools that actually host brains is recommended to avoid a fucked-up situation. In this case, the eyes obviously ended up fine- the principal was the dicky part.

[Seamus]

So the neighbor was made "uncomfortable" by the fact that her son was playing with a classmate who was shooting a fake gun. I wonder if she would be uncomfortable if Dominos drivers started showing up at her door with pizzas she never ordered. Or if her telephone started ringing at 3 am night after night.

[Gindjurra]

Kinda makes you wonder if any school district officials (from teachers on up to the school board) owns any guns or participates in even symbolically violent sports outside of school hours?

If so, perhaps they should be fired for violation the school district's anti-weapons policy?

[Agile Cyborg]

"even symbolically violent sports outside of school hours?"

Playing with air soft pistols doesn't hold a candle to the cheered violence experienced in high school football. Not against high school football, per se', just stating an absurd disconnect in public reality. Air soft pistols don't tear tendons, break arms, shatter legs, create concussions, or kill like the sport our dicky little shit principal here promotes.