Come See Matt Welch Debate Donald Devine About Libertarian-Conservative Fusionism Tomorrow Today at Cato!

Donald J. Devine, a former Reagan administration official and vice chair of the American Conservative Union, has a new book out entitled America's Way Back: Reclaiming Freedom, Tradition, and Constitution, in which he calls for a revitalization of the old libertarian-conservative "fusionism" idea championed by his role model, Frank Meyer.

Tomorrow at noon at The Cato Institute in Washington, D.C., Devine will be making a presentation of his book's thesis in a forum moderated by Cato Vice President (and Reason.com columnist) Gene Healy. I will be providing the skepticism. You can also watch the event online live, at www.cato.org/live.

And don't forget: Tomorrow at Cato is also a screening of Reason.tv's must-see documentary, America's Longest War.

Reason has been debating conservatives about fusionism for a while now; most concentradedly (if that's a word) in this 2011 Welch vs. Jonah Goldberg, Gillespie vs. Ann Coulter scrum.

Comments

[Swiss Servator, Spare a Franc?]

"2011 Welch vs. Jonah Goldberg, Gillespie vs. Ann Coulter scrum."

Dammit, it takes 16 to make a scrum...unless you dragged 6 interns into the thing to make a complete pack, it is not a scrum! Besides, Coulter couldn't play anything other than a weak 8 man anyway...

/rugby pedantry off

[Robert]

In my time we used to be able to scrum with as few as 6, even in 15s, and as many as 30. Squares in Twickenham thought it was too dangerous, made you pack 5, then 7, now 8, no more, no less.

Now I coach American football, and there's talk of outlawing low hits, high hits. Over time all the choices get outlawed in team sports, it seems.

[Anonymous Coward]

Eventually, football is just going to turn into a really expensive game of tag.

[sarcasmic]

I went back to read the Coulter debate just to remind me of how despicable that woman is. Yep. She's a bitch alright.

[Swiss Servator, Spare a Franc?]

Maybe we could let her play 8 man in the scrum, and then when it got collapsed on her, the Reason First XV could give her the ol' rake, cleats a plenty!

[sarcasmic]

I'd rather just bend her over and give her a good hate-fuck.

[Brandon]

Eeew. I didn't have the highest opinion of you before, but I didn't know you were a necrophiliac.

[Caleb Turberville]

http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/brin20130916 Sorry if already posted, but here's a gem from the Institute for Ethics & Emerging Technologies.

[Caleb Turberville]

Tl;dr version: For the most part, the author makes a somewhat admirable attempt as a liberal to reach out to libertarians. He ultimately fails, especially when he fails to understand the difference between a command economy ruled by 5,000 bureaucrats and a market economy with 5,000 especially rich participants.

[Caleb Turberville]

...concluding that an economy with an "oligarchy" of hyper rich people is just as likely to lead to the feudalism that concerned Hayek as would a command economy.

[sarcasmic]

Liberals truly do not comprehend the concept of voluntary exchange and the creation of wealth. All they know is envy and violence.

[Tony]

Libertarians do not understand that the market is a set of rules created by governments.

[Scarecrow Repair]

Governments distort markets, but markets exist all by their lonesome as much as gravity does.

[Tony]

No, they don't. The market is those government rules that say what counts as currency; what is legitimate trade and what is fraud; and what protections, rights, and responsibilities consumers, producers, workers, and employers have. What you're describing is a prehistoric bartering system. A real market is truly nothing but a set of rules set by governments.

[Scarecrow Repair]

You really are as dumb as everybody says. Markets exist perfectly well by themselves, whether barter or not. Supply and demand, all that stuff. If caveman Xrthx is better at making spears than Grgsth, he will have more choice in how many giraffe teeth he charges for one. That's a market, Tony old boy.

Same as the market in stupid answers. You make for more interesting dumb answers then Shreek or Obama's Baccy Plug, so you get more responses. Pretty simple.

It's kind of fun baiting you, it's so easy, and it's fun trying to figure out what kind of complicated self-deception is required to mouth such nonsense.

[sarcasmic]

It's kind of fun baiting you, it's so easy, and it's fun trying to figure out what kind of complicated self-deception is required to mouth such nonsense.

I know. The sad part is that I really don't think he's a sock puppet. He's a real person. A real person who continually gets shot down with logic and reason, but resolutely sticks to what he feels. Because what he feels is right. No matter what.

I can sympathize to an extent. I once felt as he does.

Now I think.

[Anonymous Coward]

market is those government rules that say what counts as currency

Because everybody wants to trade in Zimbabwe dollars.

what is legitimate trade and what is fraud

Any rational person can figure what fraud is. People have been fighting fraud since time immemorial. Now, you don't just go across the valley to kill the guy who traded you a cow with no milk for your daughter. You take him to court.

and what protections, rights, and responsibilities consumers, producers, workers, and employers have.

I like how separate "employer" from "producer." They've trained you well, Tony w/o spaces.

[sarcasmic]

Hey Tony the Moron. Ever heard of the black market? That's a market that functions under one government rule: it's not supposed to exist. Yet it exists and flourishes, despite the government saying that it's not supposed to exist. How can that be if markets only exist because of government rules?

[Tony]

I suppose the pay for things with monopoly money in black markets?

[sarcasmic]

Money is not wealth. Without government issued currency, people will still voluntarily find and agree upon a means of exchange. Society and markets always goes on, with or without government. We cooperate without coercion. It's just fucking amazing. It really is. Sure there are the bad apples. A just government punishes them, but in time the bad apples run the government. Such is life.

[Tony]

People cooperate without coercion in the absence of rules against coercion? Yeah that would be fucking amazing if it weren't total fucking fantasy.

[R C Dean]

Most people refrain from casual violence because they want to, not purely to avoid being jacked up by agents of the State.

So, yes, people cooperate without being forced to.

[Tony]

So are you claiming that laws are unnecessary, or are you just saying something that's so obviously true (most of the time people cooperate) that it's just taking up perfectly good Internet space?

[Scarecrow Repair]

Yes, Tony, people do cooperate without coercion. How do you think hominids survived long enough for tyrants to form governments?

Look around you at nature. Wolves don't cooperate with deer except in weird staged cases, but wolves and deer cooperate with each other. While their may be jostling for mates and argie bargies about territory and food and such, it's still cooperation at its core.

[sarcasmic]

People cooperate without coercion in the absence of rules against coercion?

Yes. It's called being civilized.

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose the pay for things with monopoly money in black markets?

What difference is there between USD and Monopoly money? The only difference between the stuff created by Parker Brothers and the stuff created by the Federal Reserve is that one is legal tender.

[Anonymous Coward]

the market is a set of rules created by governments.

And where might I find these rules, Tony w/o spaces? Do you mean REGULASHUNS? I thought BOOOSSSHH got rid of all of them, which led to the collapse of the financial market, which Obama saved by....what did he do, again?

[Bill Dalasio]

Well, worst case scenario, fusionism turns out as swimmingly as "liberalterianism".

[R C Dean]

You're right; it couldn't possibly be any worse than liberaltarianism.

[The Late P Brooks]

Libertarians do not understand that the market is a set of rules created by governments.

Tee hee hee.

[The Late P Brooks]

Also, let's only count "exchange of value" transactions (as defined by Tulpa on his cross) as market activities.

[The Late P Brooks]

I suppose the pay for things with monopoly money in black markets?

Cigarettes.

Nylon stockings.

Chocolate.

[R C Dean]

And, as a matter of fact, the darknet markets (Silk Road, etc.) do transact exclusively in fiat currency - Bitcoin, Lite coin, etc.

[The Late P Brooks]

People cooperate without coercion in the absence of rules against coercion?

Pardon me, Stewardess, do you speak Tony?