Trayvon Martin

Prosecution's Clincher: 'Trayvon Martin Did Not Kill Himself'

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Video via The Orlando Sentinel

This morning, during his closing statement to the jury in George Zimmerman's murder trial, defense attorney Mark O'Mara said he believed not only that the prosecution had failed to prove its case but that he and his co-counsel, Don West, had established their client's innocence beyond a reasonable doubt, even though the law does not require them to do so. I would not go that far, for some of the same reasons that prosecutor John Guy cited in his rebuttal as he urged the jury to convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder. But the uncertainties about what happened the night that Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin hurt the prosecution much more than the defense.

"If he hadn't committed a crime," Guy asked, "why did he lie so many times?" Some of the statements Guy described as lies were merely imprecise. Contrary to what Zimmerman claimed, Guy said, Sean Noffke, the police dispatcher he talked to that night, never asked him to "get an address." No, not in so many words, but Noffke did ask for Zimmerman's location. According to Guy, Zimmerman also lied when he said he told Noffke he would meet the police at his car. In fact, Zimmerman did say that at one point, then changed his mind and said the officers should call his cellphone when they arrived. Did Zimmerman lie about the proposed rendezvous point, even though he knew the call was recorded? It seems more likely that he simply misremembered that detail.

There may also be innocent explanations for more significant inconsistencies: In one interview Zimmerman said Martin hit him "dozens" of times, for instance, and he told police that Martin was reaching for his gun, while he told a friend that Martin had actually grabbed it. But Guy portrayed these exaggerations, not implausibly, as part of Zimmerman's attempt to justify his own actions by making Martin seem more menacing than he was. Guy also argued that Zimmerman's visible injuries would have been more severe if his head had repeatedly hit the pavement and that Zimmerman lied when he said Martin had squeezed his nose during the fight.

These are all debatable points, which is why it is hard to have complete confidence in Zimmerman's account of the fight. But the jury does not need that to acquit him. All it needs is reasonable doubt as to whether the prosecution's version of events is true, and there is plenty of that. The prosecution's argument that Zimmerman acted based on "ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent," which is an essential element of second-degree murder, leans heavily on two curses that Zimmerman uttered while talking to Noffke: fucking, as in "fucking punks," and asshole, as in "these assholes, they always get away." To give you a sense of how important those eight words are to the prosecution's case, Guy called the former phrase "a window into a man's soul." The prosecutors have literally amplified that argument by angrily shouting Zimmerman's epithets while describing his state of mind that night. But Zimmerman himself spoke the words calmly and, according to Noffke, did not seem like a man on the verge of violence. Even when combined with Zimmerman's frustration over a recent series of burglaries in the neighborhood, the curses do not come close to proving he had "hatred in his heart," as Guy insisted.

The prosecution's case that Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter hinges on several disputed details of the fight. There was dueling testimony, for example, regarding who was on top right before the gunshot and who can be heard screaming for help in the background of a 911 call. In the face of such conflicting evidence from sources of roughly equal credibility, the jury is not supposed to flip a coin; it has to give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt. In his closing statement yesterday, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda kept coming back to unresolved facts, urging the jurors to pick one version or the other and find Zimmerman guilty based on the possibility that events could have unfolded in the way suggested by the prosecution. As O'Mara pointed out, that is the tack usually taken by defense attorneys, not by prosecutors, who must do much more than tell a plausible story.

I can think of a couple plausible stories that would make Zimmerman guilty of manslaughter or maybe even second-degree murder. Perhaps he honestly believed shooting Martin was necessary to prevent death or serious injury, but that belief was not reasonable, as required for a self-defense claim under Florida law. He may have panicked after being attacked by Martin and used lethal force in circumstances that did not justify it. Or maybe Martin, after beating Zimmerman to give him a lesson about following people for no good reason, was getting up and letting Zimmerman go, at which point Zimmerman shot him in anger at the humiliating thrashing. Both of these stories are more plausible than the one told by the prosecution, which has Zimmerman mistaking Martin for a burglar, then setting out to kill him because he was sick and tired of those "fucking punks." But scenarios in which Zimmerman panicked and overreacted or shot Martin out of anger after suffering a beating are no more plausible than a scenario in which Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life.

Faced with the reality that it is impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense when he shot Martin, Guy reverted to a theme emphasized by de la Rionda yesterday. He said "the bottom line" is that "if that defendant had done only what he was supposed to do—see and call—none of us would be here." But the prosecution concedes that Zimmerman did nothing illegal up to the moment when the encounter turned violent, and his decision to follow someone who struck him as suspicious, however unfair or unwise, does not make him guilty of manslaughter, let alone second-degree murder. Later in his rebuttal, Guy offered a different, equally erroneous explanation of the issue at the center of this case. "The bottom line," Guy said, "is who is responsible for Trayvon Martin lying on that ground? Trayvon Martin did not kill himself." That much the prosecution has established beyond a reasonable doubt. But not much else.

After instructing the jurors, Judge Debra Nelson sent them off to deliberate at 2:30 p.m. Eastern time.

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  1. So what time will the riots begin?

    1. They’ll have to occur before Zimmerman gets his hispanic heritage back.

    2. about 10 minutes after the ‘not guilt’ verdict.

      1. What do you suppose the chances are Hispanics will riot if Zimmerman is convicted?

        Never mind…

  2. So what time will the riots begin?

    1. They’ll have to occur before Zimmerman gets his hispanic heritage back.

      1. ECHO CHAMBER

        1. LISA NEEDS BRACES!

            1. VAPOR LOCK!

        2. Hey, apparently Serial Man didn’t hear my answer the first time.

      2. I’ve been having the most delightful debate on the WaPo forums about whether or not “hispanic” counts as “white”, both ethnologically and for the purposes of the upcoming riots. I believe in the Florida context the pro-riot faction is going with, “white enough”.

        1. Threatening to “take care of his Mexican burrito eating ass” indicates to me that some see him as Hispanic, but that’s OK because they hate Hispanics almost as much as creepy crackers.

          http://www.africanglobe.net/he…..s-verdict/

          1. @mycashsoendless: “fuck that nigga Zimmerman, I’ll kill that nigga myself”

            Either this is generic terminology found within the street vernacular, or some also see him as black.

            Sore confrusing.

        2. the most delightful debate

          That’s Caucasian of you.

          “The court, or some clever clerk, doesn’t really want to use the word white in part because roughly half of Hispanics consider themselves white.” … “White turns out to be a much more ambiguous term now than we used to think it was.” … blacks understood “white” as a category, both historical and contemporary ? a coherent group that wielded power and excluded others. Whites, I believed, were less comfortable with that notion. …”There’s all kinds of characteristics that we stuff into race without looking, and then they pop out and we think, ‘I can’t deal with that.’ “

        3. Hispanics can be of any race. There are white Hispanics, black Hispanics, Japanese Hispanics, Jewish Hispanics, native American Hispanics and combinations of all of those and more. Hispanic is a linguistic and cultural classification and not a racial one at all.

      3. He asked you twice, you couldn’t come a better answer the 2nd time?

        1. In my defense, I assumed he didn’t hear me, not that he needed clarification.

          If the case is the latter, then what is meant is that when the media got ahold of this case, Zimmerman became “white” to help the narrative along. But, as Adam Carolla asked during one of his podcasts, “If Zimmerman is found innocent, does he get his mexican heritage back?”

          Ie, at some point Zimmerman will simply return to being that swarthy minority who lives across the street. So the riots have to occur post haste or the media narrative falls apart.

          Oh wait, you were joking and everyone got it. Damnit.

    2. I was trying to start a riot about when the riots will begin by chanting it. Y’all a very docile lot.

  3. …which has Zimmerman setting out to kill Martin after mistaking him for a burglar because he was sick and tired of those “fucking punks.”

    Lesson to racist Death Wishers out there: don’t call 911 when you’re planning to go vigilante. Just do it and slip back into the night like Bronson.

    1. You make jokes, FOE, but for those of us who carry instruments of violence, there’s a silent code among us that basically says, if you ever…ever have to shoot someone in self defense, always cry and sob when the police get there, especially if cameras are about, express remorse and say that you wish it could have turned out differently.

      Here’s a good example of that lesson:

      Shaw told deputies he pointed the gun at Kneer and fired when Kneer did not back off, telling them he meant it as a warning shot. But the shot struck Kneer in the head.

      Harum said it appeared to be a clear case of self-defense and he does not expect the motorist to be charged with any crime.

      “He was pretty upset, and from what the deputies tell me, remorseful,” Harum said. “It’s pretty sad.”

      http://www.seattlepi.com/local…..252251.php

      See, you actually have deputies consoling the shooter. Swish! 3 points!

      1. As a fellow instrument of death carrier in the same city, county, and state as Paul, I have to back him up on this.

        1. Will you help him bury the body/

      2. I’d follow Massad Ayoob’s advice.

        “I was in fear for my life and just wanted to stop him. I need to talk to my lawyer now.”

      3. Yeah. And if I ever had to shoot someone, even if they really had it coming, I’m pretty sure I would be genuinely upset about it and I expect most people would as well. Even if it is totally justified and necessary, killing someone is a big fucking deal.

      4. Argh, and for the love of god never say “warning shot” for fuck’s sake.

    2. “The underprivileged are beating our goddamned brains out. You know what I say? Stick them in concentration camps, that’s what I say.”

  4. So what Zimmerman did, really, was perform a 73rd trimester abortion.

    1. Did Martin feel pain?

      1. Zimmerman said Martin said, “Ow, ow” after he was shot.

        According to the prosecution, Zim is a big fat liar, so I guess the prosecution would say, no, Martin felt no pain.

        1. So, Ron Bailey supports this abortion?

          1. Quit picking on RB, he is a good guy.

            1. Good guys dont support carbon taxes.

              1. We do if their purpose is to stabilize the climate. The trick is picking the exact moment when its mostly sunny, 72 degrees, with a gentle breeze from the northwest and locking the climate in place right then and there with a perfectly timed carbon tax.

    1. One can argue that if you attack a man with a gun, you are committing suicide.

      See many {many, many} Sloopy posts as reference.

      1. Trayvon Martin Did Not Kill Himself

        I was under the impression that lawyers, even prosecutors, know some Latin. So does the DA not understand the meaning of “non sequitur,” or is he hoping none of the six jurors do?

        1. My money’s on “both.” And you can rarely wrong betting on stupidity.

    2. No, but Zimmerman apparently bloodied (and perhaps broke) his own nose and bashed his own head against the sidewalk.

  5. Whenever someone dies, someone has to be convicted of murder. OK, prosecutor from a diploma mill lawschool!

  6. Shots were fired, a young man was killed. Investigations were conducted. What, at this point, does it matter?

    1. How come we don’t get to use passive voice in our defense. The primer on a bullet was ignited, causing an expansion of gases which force a projectile out the barrel of the weapon… the projectile striking Martin in the chest causing a loss of oxygen to Martin’s brain, resulting in death.

  7. the only riots will be you so called lawyers, libertarians, etc etc killing yourselves if Jesus/Zimmerman is found guilty – we don’t have to worry about Martin being guilty as he was already judged by Jesus/Zimmerman and sentenced

    1. D-. Super, super weak. Come on, you can do better than this. Right? Maybe not.

      1. No. They really can’t. Liberals are so far gone they can’t even troll anymore.

    2. Fuck off, Orrin.

      1. Is that Orrin?

        It used to be a much more nuanced form of troll. Must be out of practice after the stint in rehab.

        1. He just hasn’t been able to get a hold of the really good drugs. Once he finds a new supply of the good shit, you’ll see him back up to form.

        2. If memory serves, I believe it’s spelled Urine.

    3. You mean we dark-complexed folk don’t run amok like animalistic half-simians at the slightest offense?

      I can’t believe the media has been lying to us for all these years.

      1. That’s just your white side being racist against your black side! Jeez, you just othered yourself.

        1. Yeah, I’ve engaged in a lot of self-abuse in my life.

          Strangely enough, it tends to happen when images of Julia Bond or Asa Akira are displayed on my computer monitor.

          *shrugs*

          1. lol Heroic – I still think its funny how many people on this site are calling Martin a racist when the defense failed to provide any evidence of such – They want to point to Jeantel testimony as the gospel on this although everything she said (in their minds)is a lie – too funny

            1. So…wait…was it a lie or was it not a lie?

            2. I live in the ghetto. Cracker is racist. Simple as that. To say it’s not is either a lie or self-deception.

              Is white boy racist? Because when there was a tippling house on the corner of the block, the teenage males would bet drunk and holler “HEY WHITE BOY!!!” at me as I passed by. To me, that’s pretty fucking racist.

              1. if you are white – how is hey white boy racist? Do they know your name? and besides what is your honkey privileged ass doing in the hood anyway? You buying drugs my nigga?

                1. “HEY, BLACK BOY!”

                  -See, not racist at all.

              2. Because when there was a tippling house on the corner of the block, the teenage males would bet drunk and holler “HEY WHITE BOY!!!” at me as I passed by.

                You left out the “Play that funky music” party.

                1. lol

          2. So if he’s guilty, you’ll abuse yourself to Lacey Duvalle and if he’s acquitted, to Julia Bond, right?

            1. Oh, poor sweet Lacey. My heart is still broken from what she did to her poor boobs.

              1. I know. There were so many porn stars that had fantastic natural boobs and then got terrible implants and now I can’t watch their stuff anymore.

                I am ok with implants as long as they look natural, but taping 2 basketballs onto a 5’2″ frame with walleyed nipples just isn’t sexy.

                1. I love chicks with large areolas such a fucking turn on

              2. Yeah, I’m not saying I don’t find any fake boobs attractive, but definitely prefer natural, and too many girls definitely get surgery when it’s completely unnecessary

          3. I’ve heard of self-hating Jews, but never self-hating mulattos.

      2. Look, HM, Martin could’ve been your son. Maybe Zimmerman is your son, too.

    4. The only riots will be libertarians committing mass suicide, and everyone who thinks the prosecution failed to show that Zimmerman is a murderer must also think that the guy is a saint? It’s almost like you’re a complete fucking dope or something.

      1. Jeff relax – I think its funny that because I don’t take any of this shit seriously that I have been called so many names – sorry but I cant get worked up like you guys – every action is reaction and this is Jesus/Zimmerman just rewards – taking someone life when it is not clear that your life was in mortal danger should have consequences – Jesus/Zimmerman is going to pay the price either with his money or with his own life – you guys all support the Martin deserved to die because Jesus/Zimmerman got his ass kicked – this was a simple fight nothing more – all this “o poor Zimmerman head had bruises” who gives a fuck he bit off more than he could chew and get his and so did Martin apparently but Martin is death now – long live Zimmerman

        1. You take this so not seriously that you never comment on any other posts and fly off the handle on posts about Zimmerman.

          you guys all support the Martin deserved to die because Jesus/Zimmerman got his ass kicked

          No one supports the idea that Martin deserved to die, you psychotic nitwit. Most here would argue that we don’t know what happened and that there is not enough evidence to find Zimmerman guilty of the crime of which he is accused.

          1. silence you stupid Mick – See how pointless the insults are? just state your position without the excessive emotional outbursts

            1. Who’s the one making excessive emotional outbursts here? Project much?

              1. “Project much?”

                It’s all they do.

              2. Norse god of Evil – this is why the Hulk fucked you up in the Avengers

            2. You argue that I support the belief that someone deserved to die. That’s an insult, regardless of whether or not you’re smart enough to realize it.

          2. No one supports the idea that Martin deserved to die

            Are you sure about that?

            1. I do. Martin attacked someone and was beating their head against the concrete. Zimmerman had every right to shoot him. Thus, Martin got what was coming to him. If I didn’t think Marin got what was coming to him, I would want Zimmerman to go to jail.

              1. Because you are omniscient and know everything that happen that night.

                John is God now, everybody.

                1. I don’t have to be omniscient to look at the evidence and make a reasonable conclusion about what happened.

                  1. Concur with John. “Desert” is a loaded term, but still.

                2. Have you switched you meds recently? You seem much more adversarial than I recall.

                  1. Have you switched you meds recently? You seem much more adversarial than I recall.

                    Apparently there is an amount of bullshit that’s too much for me to stand.

              2. ^Yep. It is that simple.

                1. I suppose maybe I suspect that Martin initiated the use of force, but that’s a fucking guess on my part. It fits the facts slightly better than anything else, but the known facts are shit. That’s why Zimmerman is likely going to walk–shitty evidence.

        2. You don’t take any of this shit seriously but still show up in every single thread about the trial without fail to argue things that are not in evidence? Yeah, whatever, fuck you.

          1. are you cyber stalking me sir? How could you make such a (false) statement? You are scaring me – should I call 911 or my father? I am drinking tea right now…

            1. O RLY? How far back would we have to go to find an article about Zimmerman where you haven’t smeared your shit all over the walls? A cursory glance would suggest it would have to be pretty damn far back. For someone who isn’t invested in this, you sound pretty invested in this.

              1. you would be wrong – check back you will notice that only the last week have I been draw to this – I normally comment on abuses of police power and crony capitalism – try again with your assumptions – you don’t have a clue- additionally what makes your comments any more valid or relevant than mine?

                1. And since there have been approximately 18 bazillion stories about Zimmerman this week, and you are on every goddamn one of them, you obviously take this shit very, very seriously and only try to play it off like you don’t because everyone here beats you over the head with your own stupidity.

                  taking someone life when it is not clear that your life was in mortal danger should have consequences – Jesus/Zimmerman is going to pay the price either with his money or with his own life – you guys all support the Martin deserved to die because Jesus/Zimmerman got his ass kicked – this was a simple fight nothing more – all this “o poor Zimmerman head had bruises” who gives a fuck he bit off more than he could chew and get his

                  What was that about ASSumptions, you fuckwit?

            2. You show up in every Zimmerman thread and never comment in any other thread.

              You don’t look at the evidence, and basically argue that Zimmerman should hang regardless of the fact that there is clearly not enough evidence to find him guilty.

              You then ignore our arguments and do nothing but tell people to stop being mean to you when they rightfully insult you for your gross and provable incompetence.

              1. now you do have that correct I do ignore your arguments because they aren’t based on reality – you and others attempt to put a legal spin on this case – I try to point out the common sense aspects – I cant help it if once again you are more emotional invested in this than I am – and trust me I am not worried about any of you being mean to me – this is a internet site not real life – shouldn’t you be drinking right now I thought all Irish were fucking drunks?

                1. He’s not emotionally invested, but only shows up on the Zimmerman threads to taunt “Zimmerman supporters”.

                  SUUUUUUUUUURE. 😀

                  1. Tarran you called me sweetie the other day and stopped when I asked if you shave and or have long legs – I would still like an answer

        3. taking someone life when it is not clear that your life was in mortal danger should have consequences

          That’s the issue of dispute in the trial. Assuming it to be true doesn’t make it so.

    5. Re: MAsterDarque,

      we don’t have to worry about Martin being guilty as he was already judged by Jesus/Zimmerman and sentenced

      That’s right, as Martin was committing aggravated assault with intent to do serious harm or kill. The punishment is death by self-defense from his victim.

    6. No, MasterDarque, the outcome of the Zimmerman trial is win/win for libertarians.

      If he’s found innocent, the benefit of the doubt remains with people who find themselves in a fight and have to make a split second decision on defending themselves.

      If he’s found guilty, pretty much every questionable cop-shooting in the country moves firmly into the ‘unjustified’ column.

      The next time a cop discharges his weapon and kills an unarmed person, our automatic an unassailable response will be, “Zimmerman”.

      1. lol Paul

      2. As far as my libertarianism goes, my only issue with this case is that someone is in court who shouldn’t be. Not because he’s innocent–I have no idea if that’s the case, nor does anyone besides Zimmerman himself–but because the evidence isn’t there. Not even remotely.

        Without the intervention of the media and the president, this case isn’t tried 99/100.

    7. No, we’ll simply await the verdict to be immediately reversed on appeal.

      1. I wouldn’t count on that. I don’t have a lot of confidence in Florida’s appellate courts.

  8. Both of these stories are more plausible than the one told by the prosecution, which has Zimmerman setting out to kill Martin after mistaking him for a burglar because he was sick and tired of those “fucking punks.”

    Perhaps the prosecution is intentionally using the same arguments as the protesters?

  9. These talking heads on teevee seem to almost universally believe two things:

    1. Profiling is very very bad.

    2. Speculating about how jurors will vote based on sex and age is perfectly fine.

    1. Profiling is OK when we do it.

      –Media

    2. I agree with you they are talking about the female jurors as if they are a completely different species

  10. Both of these stories are more plausible than the one told by the prosecution, which has Zimmerman setting out to kill Martin after mistaking him for a burglar because he was sick and tired of those “fucking punks.”

    To believe that you have to believe that Zimmerman went up and got in a fight with Marin even though he had a gun. Zimmerman wanted to kill him but didn’t draw his gun out until he was getting his head beat against the pavement out of a sense of adventure I guess.

    1. Some people want you to believe that GZ hit himself with a tree branch or something.

    2. To believe that you have to believe that

      You also have to believe that Zimmerman knew what everyone in the neighborhood would say about the incident prior to being interviewed by the police.

      I enjoyed when O’Mara mentioned that the prosecution was trying to make the case that Zimmerman was this criminal mastermind, who had full understanding of the law, because he took a class that included the subject of self defense and stand your ground. Yet, this same criminal mastermind didn’t understand the concept of Miranda, and his right to remain silent.

    3. To be honest, when I go out to administer a fatal beating to a minority lad, I always call the police non-emergency line; to establish reasonable doubt.

      1. And you never draw your gun. You keep it concealed. Much more sporting to beat him to death with your fists.

      2. I use my child labor to administer fatal beatings to minority kids.

        1. lol

        2. Triple bonus if they’re elderly minority orphans.

  11. Rather than rioting or even more protests, if Zimmerman is acquitted maybe just a quiet campaign of following him everywhere he goes. And calling 911 every time you see him outside in the dark and saying you think he’s a burglar.

    1. I thought Zimmerman’s sin was not following orders from the police and staying in the car, not calling 9-11.

      1. You mean the order than wasn’t really an order?

      2. I was thinking more of the other 46 times he called the police on people he hadn’t observed committing any crime. Those punks “that got away with it.”

        1. And indeed they had. Someone was breaking into the houses.

          1. Completely immaterial. There’s nothing to say the people he was siccing the police on were the same people breaking into houses.

            1. Since when is calling the police a crime?

              1. Exactly. Which is why Zimmerman should have no problem with people calling the police on him.

                1. Yes, if you see people darting between houses and through yards at night in a burglary-prone neighborhood, calling the police is a bad idea.

                  /sarc

                  1. All Zimmerman testified to was Martin “wandering” and “looking at houses.”

                    Shit, my wife and I do that all the time. Better call the po-po.

                    1. So does there exist, to you, a valid time to call the police when you observe someone doing something not illegal but suspicious nonetheless?

                      Because if there is, your point is toast, dude.

                    2. I usually mind my own goddamn business myself. I like to be able to walk around a neighborhood without some dick calling the cops on me and I like to extend the same courtesy to others.

            2. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the robbery rate in that neighborhood has gone up, down, or stayed the same?

        2. The 911 operator told Zimmerman to let him know if Martin did anything else. He later testified in court that his instruction could have been misinterpreted as instructing Zimmerman to follow Martin.

    2. That (unlike what Zimmerman did) *would* constitute repeated and malicious following, and thus as stalking under the relevant Florida statute.

  12. http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013…..is-guilty/

    Occutards sets up a planning site for post Martin verdict “actions”. But any riots will be totally spontaneous and not the result of orchestration done by leftist assholes.

    1. This just gets stupider and stupider. This is a perfect storm of stupidity in the stupidest state of the stupidest country on Earth.

      1. The Stop Mass Incarceration Network (SMIN) calls on everybody who wants to see “Justice 4 Trayvon” to take that desire to the streets. MAKE PLANS FOR A VIGIL WHEN THE CASE GOES TO THE JURY AND TO TAKE TO THE STREETS ON THE DAY OF OR THE DAY AFTER THE VERDICT COMES DOWN, WHICHEVER WAY IT GOES!

        Am I wrong to think that the Stop Mass Incarceration Network love incarceration, as long as the right people are incarcerated?

        1. We Are All Trayvon; The Whole Damned System Is Guilty

          What?

    2. And note, one of the groups is something called the “Stop Mass Incarceration Network”. Wow.

      1. oh, i’m sure they’re going to protest a conviction.

      2. So how does the “Stop Mass Incarceration Network” cohere with “Justice 4 Trayvon”? Lynching?

    3. Wait, Zimmerman was a Wall Street banker?

      Who knew?

      1. More proof, as if any were needed, that everything Leftists do is a lie. Occutards did not and could not care less about banks.

    4. Dude, the OWS people aren’t going to riot. They’re the most ineffective protest movement since Fathers Against Rude Television. They talk a lot, but they don’t do anything.

      1. “You’re reading Hit and Run, the blog that does not advocate the cool crime of second-degree murder!”

      2. Maybe a few of them will be victims of a black riot. I mean if some poor random white person has to get killed, why not them?

        1. is a non black riot like Quiet Riot?

      3. I protest! FART was incredibly effective! They got Bender to give a speech that he should be taken off the air. They turned their biggest opponent into a supporter!

        If that’s not effective, I don’t know what is.

      4. And neither OWS nor SMIN spell anything remotely funny.

    5. One of the sponsors: “Stop Mass Incarceration Website”

      1. But you already noticed.

    6. Do these fuck-tards understand how the internet works? That they’re leaving an easily followed digital trail that can be used to convict them of inciting violence if it comes to that? Un-fucking-believable.

      1. No.

        I meant to respond earlier, Evangelion was a huge mind fuck. I think I’m going to watch it again soon.

  13. One of the best parts of the defense’s closing arguments was when O’Mara stated that four minutes had gone by between the time that Martin ran away from Zimmerman, and when the fight took place. A reasonable person who is scared for the safety would seek out safety, not double back to confront the person who made them fear for their safety.

    While they didn’t bring it up during trial, the defense had introduced numerous police reports of the wave of break ins that occurred in the neighborhood. O’Mara reminded the jury that even though it wasn’t brought up in court, that the jurors had access to the reports during deliberations.

  14. I think if I had been the judge I would have slammed that prosecutor for saying “Martin didn’t kill himself”. That seems to me to be completely impermissible argument. The implication is that the jury is somehow obligated to find the defendant guilty because Martin died. He is telling the jury to convict regardless of the facts of the case.

    1. He is telling the jury to convict regardless of the facts of the case.

      Well he sure as hell can’t tell them to convict based on the facts. He’s really just hoping that a blatant appeal to emotion will work. Sadly, he may be right.

      1. These ladies are going to feel pretty shitty about themselves when they convict on manslaughter and he gets shipped off for 30 years of butt rape.

        1. No they won’t. They’ll pat themselves on the back for averting the race riots that everyone *knows* are inevitable should Zimmerman be aquitted. Even though said riots would be a counter factual that no one could possibly know for certain would have happened, they’ll convince themselves that what they did was for the greater good, and they’ll sleep soundly with that “knowledge”.

          1. Maybe not immediately, although I bet they’ll be pretty shocked at the length of the sentence. But 10, 20 years from now I bet the guilt will start to sink in.

            1. Sorta like voting.

  15. I think we can all agree that Zimmerman is an asshole. But that doesn’t make him guilty of a crime.

    1. I don’t know that we can say anything at all about Zimmerman. Was he wrong to be pissed off about the break ins in his neighborhood? Was he wrong be a part of a neighborhood watch to try to stop them? Since when do Libertarians object to community self help?

      If anyone was an asshole it was Martin. He was a piece of shit raised on the idea that being masculine meant going after anyone whom he thought disrespected him and finally did to the wrong guy. That is an asshole.

      1. If anyone was an asshole it was Martin. He was a piece of shit raised on the idea that being masculine meant going after anyone whom he thought disrespected him and finally did to the wrong guy. That is an asshole.

        Not only can John read minds, he can raise the dead.

        1. I don’t have to read minds. I can see what happened. Martin attacked Zimmerman. Why? He told his girlfriend. He thought Zimmerman was a creepy ass cracker and was pissed he was following him. Next thing you know he is on top of Zimmerman beating the shit out of him. Sadly for him, Zimmerman had a gun. Life is hard and even harder if you are stupid.

          1. He thought Zimmerman was a creepy ass cracker and was pissed he was following him.

            Then Zimmerman should be fine being followed everywhere he goes. I mean, you can’t object or be apprehensive or fear for your life if you are simply being followed, right?

            1. Martin would have been justified in telling Zimmerman to fuck off, but not in assaulting him the way Zimmerman alleges.

              I think this is a case of wannabe cop meets wannabe thug.

              1. Martin would have been justified in telling Zimmerman to fuck off, but not in assaulting him the way Zimmerman alleges.

                THIS. Being followed by someone is not justification to start a fight. Of course, the anti Zimmerman folks here know this, so they obfiscate on that point. While it’s true we don’t know for sure that Martin threw the 1st punch, we also don’t know for sure that Zimmerman did anything other than call the cops and follow someone he found suspicious. That the end result was a fight that resulted in someone getting shot sucks, but there’s no reason I can see to doubt Z’s claim of self defense. But there again, according to some people getting punched in the face and having your head slammed into the concrete isn’t enough to “reasonably” fear for one’s life, either. I’m not sure what it is about this case that makes normally intelligent people lose their shit.

                1. “While it’s true we don’t know for sure that Martin threw the 1st punch, we also don’t know for sure that Zimmerman did anything other than call the cops and follow someone he found suspicious.”

                  At the end of the day this is decisive to me. There’s a lot we don’t know, and I would never vote to convict a man unless it were darn near certain. The jury is being asked if they are certain about Zimmerman murdering Martin. They can’t be. No one can. I’d vote to acquit.

                  1. The jury is being asked if they are certain about Zimmerman murdering Martin.

                    No they aren’t.

                    They were originally, but the judge now says they can go for manslaughter rather than murder.

            2. So being one time is the same as being followed all of the time? And regardless, if Zimmerman is followed and then physically attacks whoever is following him to the point that he is on top of him trying to crush his skull, then yes, Zimmerman will deserve what he gets if the guy shoots him in self defense.

              You really seem to think that Martin had the right to just beat the shit out of anyone who followed him for any reason. Martin apparently agreed with you. And I am saying that is a very good way to wind up dead.

              1. You really seem to think that Martin had the right to just beat the shit out of anyone who followed him for any reason.

                Four minutes after he ran away from Zimmerman, and less than 300 yards from his own home.

                1. “less than 300 yards from his own home.”

                  I would also point out that burglaries are most often committed by young males who case their own neighborhoods.

              2. No, I’m saying that you thinking you know exactly what happened that night is just like you. Jump to a conclusion that fits your hilarious slanted biases and then die on that fucking hill rather than express any doubt whatsoever. And then start insulting anyone who reveals the fool you make of yourself.

                1. I’m saying that you thinking you know exactly what happened that night is just like you.

                  We had a trial. There was a lot of evidence. From that you can conclude but pretty good certainty that Zimmerman was a do gooder who followed Martin thinking he was a theif, Martin was a piece of shit thug who thought he was a tough guy and got pissed off about Martin following him, Martin double back and attack Zimmerman, and Zimmerman, after having his head beaten on the sidewalk, shot Martin.

                  I can say with better 80% certainty that is what happened. It might have gone down differently, but that is very unlikely. That is the only explanation that squares with all of the known facts.

                  1. That is the only explanation that squares with all of the known facts.

                    Unknown facts also matter. We’ll never no for sure what happened, that’s the whole problem. Lucky for Zimmerman, reasonable doubt is all he needs.

                  2. “From that you can conclude but pretty good certainty that Zimmerman was a do gooder who followed Martin thinking he was a theif, Martin was a piece of shit thug who thought he was a tough guy and got pissed off about Martin following him, Martin double back and attack Zimmerman, and Zimmerman, after having his head beaten on the sidewalk, shot Martin.”

                    I think you just murdered the English language.

              3. John make sure you never make the mistake of following minority youth in Florida – Unless you are the police of course and then you have a free ticket to murder without consequence – John you are hilarious to me – you support the ability to seek out a confrontation and then when it bites you in the ass you get to use deadly force

                1. Following someone is not illegal.

                  1. Following someone is not illegal.

                    Following someone ONCE is not illegal.

                    Repeatedly following someone is stalking, generally illegal. Unless you’re NSA ‘n shit.

                2. Re: MasterDarque,

                  John make sure you never make the mistake of following minority youth in Florida

                  Because they will turn around to attack your “creepy cracker” ass?

                  What a way to contradict the Prosecution’s theory that Martin was a choir boy trying to defend the true location of his home by valiantly attacking Zimmerman.

                  1. Oldie you are a spic not a creepy ass cracker so please stay out of this 🙂

                3. So following someone is “seeking out confrontation”. Martin sought the confrontation. Why would Zimmerman have attacked Martin? He had a gun. If Zimmerman had started it, he just would have drawn his gun. The fact that Zimmerman didn’t draw his gun until the fight started, is proof positive Martin initiated it.

                  And yes, if you are going to start beating people up, eventually one of them is going to have a gun and you are going to end up dead. That is what happened to Martin. Sadly, that happens every day to young black men who have bought into this absurd idea of masculinity. We just don’t hear about it because it is usually another black man who kills them.

                  1. “following someone is “seeking out confrontation”.”

                    You wouldn’t confront someone who followed you at length?

                    “Why would Zimmerman have attacked Martin? He had a gun. If Zimmerman had started it, he just would have drawn his gun. The fact that Zimmerman didn’t draw his gun until the fight started, is proof positive Martin initiated it.”

                    Because nobody who had a gun ever, ever got in a fistfight with another person. They always simply drew their gun.

                    1. Because nobody who had a gun ever, ever got in a fistfight with another person. They always simply drew their gun.

                      For the most part, yes. Why would Zimmerman have wanted to start a fist fight with Martin? That makes no sense. Zimmerman had already called the cops. So if his plan was to beat up martin, calling the cops doesn’t make any sense. When the cops show up and see Zimmerman beating up Martin, Zimmerman is going to jail. At most Zimmerman wanted to capture Martin and hold him until the cops got there. And if he wanted to do that, he certainly would have used his gun.

                      There is no rational theory to explain Zimmerman would have started the fight. That is simply not what happened.

                    2. It’s interesting how many “certainly”‘s, “no rational theory” and “simply not what happened”s follow “for the most part.”

                      It’s not inconceivable that someone with a gun might start a fistfight with another person. I bet it happens commonly.

                    3. “At most Zimmerman wanted to capture Martin and hold him until the cops got there. And if he wanted to do that, he certainly would have used his gun.”

                      I agree with most of your post but not this. If Zimmerman held Martin at gunpoint, with no evidence he was committing a crime, he would definitely get arrested when the cops showed up.

                    4. Re: BO Cara Esq.

                      You wouldn’t confront someone who followed you at length?

                      Only an idiot would do that, hence a dead idiot.

                    5. Really? If someone followed you at length you wouldn’t confront them at all?

                      I take your word for it, but I think more than ‘idiots’ might confront someone over that (note: I don’t say ‘assault’ but confront).

                    6. Re: Bo Cara Esq.

                      Really? If someone followed you at length you wouldn’t confront them at all?

                      Yes, really. Only paranoids and idiots turn around to confront those they believe are following them.

                    7. Actually, that’s not quite correct.

                      It really depends on the circumstances.

                      Turning around and asking someone “May I help you” is essentially confronting them, but doesn’t escalate the situation into violence. IF someone is up to no good and is following you, that question could cause them to decide you are going to be too hard to overcome and prompt them to withdraw.

                      And if the person following you doesn’t intend violence, and you don’t initiate it, in all likelihood after a tense conversation, everybody goes their way.

                    8. Really? If someone followed you at length you wouldn’t confront them at all?

                      Are you kidding? Confront them rather than try to get away or call the cops? That’s a good way to end up dead. Because not every stranger following you is as forbearing as Zimmerman was, waiting until he’s having his head pounded into the pavement before he decides to bust a cap in your ass.

                  2. Black on black crime has nothing to do with masculinity. If anything the lack of masculinity in their respective lives leads to thought process that their own lives are cheap and by extension everyone else’s.

                  3. If Zimmerman had started it, he just would have drawn his gun. The fact that Zimmerman didn’t draw his gun until the fight started, is proof positive Martin initiated it.

                    You can’t know that. No one can except Zimmerman and the one person who could corroborate his story and can’t (and would have little reason to).

                    You keep bringing up initiation like it matters to the law. It doesn’t. It matters to people who want to be pissed off, and it matters to the prosecution who are hoping to get a conviction based on emotion rather than evidence.

                4. John make sure you never make the mistake of following minority youth in Florida –

                  Why? Will they come beat me up for being a cracker? How enlightened of them. Why would anyone not like them?

            3. Hey Sug, fine by me. You take the first shift. I suggest starting immediately.

              1. I’m only suggesting it as an reasonable alternative to rioting and protesting.

                1. You have an aversion to protesting?

        2. lol SF

      2. I think we can say that he’s kinda pathetic. But yea, I haven’t seen any evidence that he’s an asshole.

        1. He may be. I don’t know the guy. But I don’t think anything he did regarding Martin makes him an asshole.

      3. Exactly. Zimmerman lived in a neighborhood that had been experienced a lot of burglaries. The neighborhood watch program was initiated by an outside organization, because the crime stats in Zimmerman’s neighborhood were unusually high. O’Mara also mentioned that the location that Martin used to enter the neighborhood was a common egress point for previous break ins. Under the circumstances, I don’t blame Zimmerman for being suspicious of Martin, as long as that suspicion didn’t lead to him initiating force against Martin.

        1. You don’t find a guy who calls the cops dozens of times on people and who follows people around the neighborhood on a vague suspicion to be, well, at least a little nanny-ish?

          I don’t think the guy is guilty of a crime here, but he strikes me as not someone I’d like to share a beer with.

          1. He’s an officious buffoon, probably, but that doesn’t make him an asshole…or a murderer..

    2. In hindsight he made some poor decisions that night. Assuming he wanted to avoid shooting someone, which I think most gun owners want to avoid.

      1. Zimmerman says that knowing what he knows now, there’s nothing about that night he would have done differently.

        That’s why he’s an asshole.

        1. I think Zimmerman should definitely be acquitted, but in hindsight, knowing that Martin died and he himself is on trial for murder, how the fuck could you not want to have done things differently?

          1. how the fuck could you not want to have done things differently?

            Because then you are showing remorse for you action which is interpreted by too many people as admission of guilt.

        2. What he is supposed to feel bad he shot the guy who attacked him and tried to kill him? If the day ever comes that I have to shoot someone in self defense, I won’t regret it either.

          1. Nothing he would have done differently about that night, John. Nothing about the whole night.

            However you want to twist it, Zimmerman began a chain of events that ended with Martin dead. He could have turned left instead of right and Martin would be alive. He could have wanted for the police and Martin would be alive.

            If he’s happy about killing someone that wasn’t committing a crime or bothering him at all without positive actions on his part, then he’s a psychopath.

            1. Martin was committing a crime. He initiated an assault without provocation.

              1. Martin was committing a crime. He initiated an assault without provocation.

                Was that before or after Zimmerman started following him, or called the cops, or was just trawling around the neighborhood for “punks?”

                Nothing he would have done differently that night. Nothing. Knowing everything he knows now. Everything.

                What would have been the horrible consequences toour brave neighborhood wanna be if he hadn’t followed Martin? Gasp! Martin would have gone home and Zimmerman would have snuggled deep into the arms of his large wife. Heaven forfend.

                1. Was that before or after Zimmerman started following him

                  Apparently being followed is justification is for beating the shit out of someone. Cool, next time I see someone following me, I’m totally gonna kick their ass (and pray they aren’t packing heat). /sarc

                  Nothing he would have done differently that night. Nothing. Knowing everything he knows now. Everything

                  I’ll concede that if I were in Z’s shoes there’s definitely things I would have done differently. Like not gotten out of the car in the first place and started following someone (although it’s not like he could have known at the time how that would turn out, that’s why it’s called hindsight).

                  What would have been the horrible consequences toour [sic] brave neighborhood wanna be if he hadn’t followed Martin?

                  And there it is. In your eyes from the very start Z was always some “wannabe cop/ vigilant” and therefore your opinion in this matter is and always has been biased. As have a lot of other people’s.

                2. SF, you’re now projecting as much as you are accusing John of the same.

            2. The only thing that got Martin killed was Martin attacking Zimmerman. No made Martin do it. Nothing Zimmerman did justified it. Martin got what was coming to him and has no one to blame for his fate but himself.

              1. “Martin got what was coming to him and has no one to blame for his fate but himself.”

                80% sure.

                1. There is a small chance that Martin didn’t get what was coming to him Bo. But only a small one.

                  1. Even if there was a small chance that someone who is dead didn’t deserve it I wouldn’t go around shouting that he “got what was coming to him.”

            3. I agree it’s pretty idiotic for Z to think after all that happened and M is dead, he wouldn’t do anything different… but I think given he is on trial for his life and the media is convicting him daily as a racist murderer – it’s likely the best thought process he can have at this time.

              IE – given for him this “shooting” hasn’t yet ended – introspecting, especially out loud, is more dangerous to his continued fight than is his delusional belief in the sanctity of all of his actions.

              Hopefully he’ll rethink that later – but as he’s most likely a normal person who really doesn’t care about learnin’ stuff – ultimately unlikely.

          2. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.

          3. You have again obviously never spoken to someone who has had to kill even in self defense. They understand that it was them or the other person but they don’t feel good about it. Another person typing from theory and not reality.

    3. I think we can all agree that Zimmerman is an asshole.

      I don’t enough about his personality to know if the guy’s an asshole or not. He could probably be described as a busybody, but many busybodies are perfectly nice people, as long as they don’t see you “behaving suspiciously” and don’t know you.

  16. OT: http://www.usatoday.com/story/…..t/2511207/

    Snowden has applied for temporary asylum in Russia until he can figure out his travel plans.

  17. If you want to read a puke inducing, illogical, hagiography to Trayvon Martin, I present

    http://feministing.com/2013/07…..e-trayvon/

    There are going to be a lot of unhappy leftists if Zimmerman is found not guilty, and if there is justice in our system (and imo, there USUALLY is), he will be found NOT GUILTY.

    I;ve investigated some clear cut no doubt about it 100% justified without a doubt self defense uses of force and god knows that this is not one of them. There are questions, there are holes, it’s not clear cut, etc. But none of that matters, since what matters is – was he proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? Hell no

    If reasonoids gave cops half the benefit of the doubt they give Zimmerman, a lot of alleged “bad shoots” here would be good shoots.

    That aside, the shooting is a tragedy and it’s awful that Martin was killed, but it was also JUSTIFIED, which is what matters.

    1. For those who carry (I almost never do, except on duty), one should be able to expect that you will be treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt by the justice system. In most cases I have seen, that DOES happen, granted in some jurisdictions much more than others. That’s based on differences in case law, penal codes relating to deadly force when justified, and community “attitude” about deadly force, but on the whole, shooters using deadly force in this country, in self defense are given a fair shake.

      Except when politix plays a part, as it has in the Zimmerman trial. Simply put, he shot a person of the wrong color, and there was too much public outcry for them to stick with their original CORRECT decision – no charges.

      Zimmerman is not a hero. He’s a person who was placed in an awful scenario, where he was justified in taking a life and he made that choice because he didn’t want to suffer grievous injury or death. He deserves empathy.

  18. http://www.komonews.com/news/l…..30071.html

    Just another day for a working class hero in Portland…

    1. Go fuck your mother, asshole.

  19. HUNG JURY

    1. I called that one a few days ago. I knew that there would be at least one person who was too terrified to convict him and at least one person who refused to knuckle under.

      1. The all woman jury is kind of strange. It would not surprise me either if there was no verdict.

        1. An all woman 6 person jury is indeed strange.

          1. But have their cycles synced up?

            1. But have their cycles synced up?

              If so, then all the prosecution would need to get a guilty verdict is to delay until a few days before their cycles start. Then they’ll want to strap that baby killer to an electric chair themselves. I keed, I keed… mostly /sarc

              1. TIWTANFL

      2. They only went into deliberations a few minutes ago, John. Guy is just trolling.

        Although, a quick verdict would surprise me, whichever way it turns out.

        I’d hate to to be on trial and have a jury going in on Friday afternoon. My fate should hinge on your weekend plans.

        1. This is a great point. They should adjourn and come back Monday.

    2. my call as well.

    3. HUNG JURY

      But they’re all woman. BTW, why the fuck is Dunphy here?

      1. Dunphy has as much right to comment as any other meathead on H&R.

        1. Bullshit.

  20. *wouldn’t surprise me* sigh

  21. Does anyone know if the fact that Z only fired 1 of his 6/7 rounds ever came up? It seems to me if he really hated Martin and wanted him dead he would have emptied the magazine. I know in my self defense course they implied you should always aim to kill because dead men don’t sue you or provide statements.

    1. Good point center mass and keep firing until nothing left – I think the libertarian gods on this site will tell you that it doesn’t matter how scared for his life Zimmerman was its the fact that he was scared justified the murder

      1. Police routinely empty their side arms in “good” shoots. I’m just saying Zimmerman seem remarkably restrained in his shoot. I don’t know what happened but I am not sure Zimmerman wanted Martin dead. Why not keep firing?

        1. I don’t know what happened but I am not sure Zimmerman wanted Martin dead. Why not keep firing?

          Maybe a live Martin would help get closer to finding the source of the recent string of robberies?

          I’d be curious to know what the robbery rate is in that neighborhood since this event.

      2. If he wanted to murder him, Zimmerman could have just walked up and shot him. There is no way to square the fact that Zimmerman was getting beat up and only fired one round at close range with the theory that Zimmerman set out to kill him from the start.

        Why don’t you just be honest. You love the idea of any black youth being able to beat up any white man whenever he wants. What you hate about this case is that Zimmerman, who is mixed race BTW, didn’t take the beating that the superior creature Martin thought he deserved.

        1. Why don’t you just be honest. You love the idea of any black youth being able to beat up any white man whenever he wants. What you hate about this case is that Zimmerman, who is mixed race BTW, didn’t take the beating that the superior creature Martin thought he deserved.

          Was this aimed at me John?

          1. No. I was trolling the other guy.

            1. Why would I love the murder of anyone? You seem so focused on race but sorry dude the loss of any life is precious to me the skin color doesn’t matter

              1. Re: MasterDarque,

                You seem so focused on race but sorry dude the loss of any life is precious to me the skin color doesn’t matter

                That’s what Zimmerman felt when his head was being pounded into solid concrete: My Life Is Precious.

                Hence a dead idiot that had no regard for other people’s life.

                1. solid concrete huh? lol

                  1. Re: MasterDarque,

                    solid concrete huh? lol

                    Yes, solid concrete, Laughing Incontrollably Guy. According to the best eye witness (John Good.) Unless you want to not believe him because, well, “whiteys stay together.”

          2. My guess would be it was aimed at the troll.

            1. You guessed correctly evidently

          3. Why don’t you just be honest. You love the idea of any black youth being able to beat up any white man whenever he wants.

            Not *any* white man. Only those who disrespect the brothers.

    2. The shooting course I took at FrontSight teaches you to “put two well aimed rounds into the center of mass”, so my training would have caused me to fire at least twice.

      Cops, when they shoot somebody, normally fire until the slide locks back, so at least 15 rounds. If there are ten cops, then 150 rounds.

      1. Maybe the defense didn’t want to talk about the shooting anymore than they had to, but it seems like pointing out he fired the minimum number of rounds to end the fight would discount the ill will part of murder 2.

        1. I agree it may have worked in the defense’s favor to make this an issue – but I would hate the precedent that the opposite would then hold sway – IE- using 5 bullets proves malice.

          As others have noted here – even though I don’t believe I’d do the cop thing and empty the clip, my training involves shooting more than once at each target unless ammo is very scarce.

  22. I will be playing this and drinking of Zimmerman/Jesus gets off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_5AJWi-Fiw

    1. Yeah he’s Jesus because he’s just irrationally loved for having not been proven, in the least bit, to be wrong here.

      1. I like this comeback I have no rebuttal

  23. BREAKING NEWS ON HLN:

    The jury has a question.

    1. “Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even He could eat it?”

      1. Are you implying God is a Mexican? Heretic!

  24. Bah. I was hoping they would be back by now.

    1. I’m still at work so I hope they take a little longer so I can get home before the madness.

      Actually I would be surprised if there were riots. Outrage, protest, demonstrations probably, but not riots.

      1. I don’t know, after the longest recession in US history, there is a lot of pent-up demand for durable goods.

        1. If I break my own windows is it still stimulus?

          1. You’ll have to hire someone to come out and repair them, thereby giving someone a JERB, so yes.

      2. It wouldn’t START as a riot.

  25. Re: Bo Cara Esq.

    Really? If someone followed you at length you wouldn’t confront them at all?

    Yes, really. Only paranoids and idiots turn around to confront those they believe are following them.

    Hence a dead paranoid idiot.

    1. I’ve had cars follow me for multiple turns until I get paranoid. None of them were after me we were just going the same way. I have never once stopped my car to confront any of them or fired shots through their front window.

    2. You are full of shit – if someone is following you you would look back to even know that they are following you and to find out how many etc etc –

      1. How is watching them in the rear view mirror confronting them?

      2. this is not to you Floridan

        1. My mistake.

      3. Re: MasterDarque,

        You are full of shit – if someone is following you you would look back to even know that they are following you

        Hey, Reading Impaired Guy, I said only idiots would turn around to CONFRONT those they think are following them.

        1. or someone who would rather face the danger head on rather than be clocked upside the head from behind

          1. Re: MasterDarque,

            or someone who would rather face the danger head on rather than be clocked upside the head from behind

            “Danger”?

            Like I said: only PARANOIDS and idiots turn around to confront who they think are following them.

            Hence, a DEAD paranoid idiot.

            (By the way, according to Rachel Jeantel, Martin was more annoyed than fearful)

  26. Sorry gang happy hour is about to begin – if any of you are in Jacksonville Florida and wanna have a drink and or discuss this or any other issues stop by seven bridges near Tinsel Town.

    1. Enjoy 7 rivers. I haven’t been there since I was at UNF. Nice place.

  27. I miss the old days when racism was something more along the lines of slavery, Jim Crow laws, or even making someone sit at the back of the bus. Now the face of racism in this country has withered down to a self-defense case involving a Hispanic guy who voted for Obama.

    I’m hardly going to have the motivation to loot next week when Zimmerman is acquitted, but on the other hand, Best Buy does have that new 4K flat screen, which would be a nice upgrade…

    1. Like everything else that starts losing its power – those who benefit in continuing to use that for power, expand definitions.

      e.g. Sexual harrassment as defined by society in general 30 years ago versus today…

      Or in business – SixSigma for Service

  28. Dude, there is no way I ever could have thought of that?

    http://www.Privacy-Planet.com

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