Africa

Senegalese President Tells Obama Country "Not Ready to Decriminalize Homosexuality," Obama: "Have to Respect the Diversity of Views That Are Out There"

Gay rights have a long way to go in much of Africa

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needs orange, purple
White House

President Obama began a tour of Africa today, landing in Senegal, where he gave one of his first comments on gay marriage since yesterday's landmark Supreme Court rulings, at a joint press conference with Macky Sall, the president of Senegal. Obama called the rulings "not simply a victory for the LGBT community" but also "a victory for American democracy." [Supporters of the democratically-enacted DOMA would disagree]. But, as the Washington Blade reports:

Perhaps acknowledging the culture of Senegal, where 96 percent of the population practice Islam, Obama maintained he respects the customs and traditions in different countries.

"The issue of gays and lesbians, and how they're treated, has come up and has been controversial in many parts of Africa," Obama said. "So I want the African people just to hear what I believe, and that is that every country, every group of people, every religion have different customs, different traditions.  And when it comes to people's personal views and their religious faith, et cetera, I think we have to respect the diversity of views that are there."

In his response to the question, [Senegal's president Macky] Sall struck a different tone, saying his country won't decriminalize homosexuality as he maintained his country is very tolerant and doesn't believe in discrimination.

"We don't tell anybody that he will not be recruited because he is gay or he will not access a job because his sexual orientation is different," Sall said. "But we are still not ready to decriminalize homosexuality. I've already said it in the past, in our Cabinet meeting it is Senegal's option, at least for the time being, while we have respect for the rights of homosexuals — but for the time being, we are still not ready to change the law."

Amnesty International USA is among the activist groups that have pressed Obama to talk about gay rights while in Africa, where it says in four countries homosexuality is still punishable by death.

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  1. Obama maintained he respects the customs and traditions in different countries.

    Too bad the people oppressed by those customs and traditions can’t immigrate to somewhere that would respect their rights as individuals unbound by customs and traditions they don’t agree with.

    1. (because, barring the invention of time travel, immigrating to last-century America is not possible)

      1. immigrating to last-century America is not possible

        ??? Lost me here. Aren’t there over a million people naturalized in the US every year? I know math is hard but one does not equal over one million.

        1. re: respecting their rights as individuals

        2. to clarify, I’m suggesting one would have to immigrate to pre-progressivism America.

          1. Ok, no argument there. I thought you were making the “since everyone who wants to immigrate here doesn’t get to do so, no one does, even though over a million are naturalized yearly” argument which is obviously complete bullshit.

            1. His point would still be relevant, because many of those people (probably a large majority) would not be able to immigrate here. The fact that some would be able to isn’t much comfort to the ones shut out

          2. I understand and agree that the federal government has grown far too large in the last 100+ years and should resemble that government more than it should this one. But I think it’s pretty stupid to say that Senegalese immigrants would have their rights respected more back then than they would today

          3. Yes what a wonderfully free and equal and tolerant place that was.

    2. Whoah wait a minute, was there some big story about the gays recently?

      I get lost in a fog of bewilderment whenever President Not My Fault goes abroad.

      “You guys should maybe stop killing homos, but if you don’t want to that’s cool too. I respect your culture.”

      The man truly has a gift.

      1. you jest, but I don’t see you wearing a Nobel while you do it.

      2. Unless your culture places a premium on gun ownership, freedom of religion, and a limited government.

        In which case, screw you.

      3. Relativism This!

    3. Does that include the culture of Appalachia, where people cling to guns and religion?

      1. they’re white, so their cultural preferences are invalid.

        1. It’s not so much that they are invalid, as it is that they are the result of privilege, and must therefore be punished.

          1. It’s truly surreal that there are so many people who will argue, with a straight face, that people like Oprah Winfrey and Denzel Washington are oppressed victims, because they are black, while some coal miners in Appalachia are oppressors, because they benefit from their “white privilege.”

            1. Seriously. Anyone that’s actually been to coal-country will tell you being white isn’t exactly all it’s cracked up to be (hah! pun unintended).

            2. In the progressiverse, there are no individuals, only identity groups, and only those identity groups that progressives choose to acknowledge. Once progressives identify the acknowledged identity groups to which you belong, they are satisfied that they know everything that there is to know about you — indeed, possibly more than you know about yourself.

              1. What is the point of talking about individuals in a political context?

                1. Because stereotypes, prejudice, and sweeping generalizations obscure facts. Because justice can only work when applied to individuals, not groups.

                  The fact that you even ask that question exhibits the core flaw in your political philosophy.

  2. Welcome to Obama Country!

    1. “We don’t tell anybody that he will not be recruited because he is gay or he will not access a job because his sexual orientation is different

      “..we’ll just throw you in jail.”

      Or did I miss something?

      1. whoops, not meant as a reply

  3. You know, those poor Africans wouldn’t have these backwards attitudes if they hadn’t been dominated by evil White Christian Straight Men from Europe, who spread their hatred and intolerance like a plague.

    1. You have to admit that Christian missionaries did often work to replace more tolerant tribal views on homosexuality in various African, Amerindian, and Asian cultures.

      1. I think the muslims can share equal blame with the christians for that state of affairs in Africa. The northern half of the continent doesn’t seem to be any more accepting of it than the southern part.

        1. I think the muslims can share equal blame with the christians…

          Gojira, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

          Seriously, the first Muslims in sub-Saharan Africa were the ones who were wont to cut the natives’ balls off so they could fuck them in the ass without feeling guilty. Not that’s all sweetness and light, but it’s a better life than being burnt at the stake.

          1. Wow. And people feel sorry for them why?

            I really wish the US would just let the rest of the world kill themselves…

        2. Ironically, though, we must admit that European Christian culture’s views on homosexuality have their origin in Near Eastern Semitic mores, which in turn were influenced by centuries of oppression by the Egyptian Empire complete with ritual humiliation via sodomy of subjugated peoples, such as the Hebrews.

          1. Heroic Mulatto| 6.27.13 @ 9:04PM |#
            “Ironically, though, we must admit that European Christian culture’s views on homosexuality have their origin in Near Eastern Semitic mores, which in turn were influenced by centuries of oppression by the Egyptian Empire complete with ritual humiliation via sodomy of subjugated peoples, such as the Hebrews.”

            Well, yeah, the mosaic religions started there, but the Greeks, not far to the west, didn’t seem to have any problem with homosexuality.

            1. Yeah, I don’t know if I buy that explanation. All of the major near-Eastern religions not based on the Indo-Aryan pantheon had a strong aversion to homosexuality. Zoroaster made Judaism look like Castro Street by comparison with his fierce attacks on the practice (had a thing for sister-banging, though).

              More likely than not it was just part of the emphasis on ritual purity which distinguished the Near Eastern religions.

              1. Zoroaster made Judaism look like Castro Street by comparison with his fierce attacks on the practice

                Really? I didn’t know that. All the more ironic as the most famous modern adherent of that religion was Farrokh Bulsara (aka Freddie Mercury).

                1. “The man that lies with mankind as man lies with womankind, or as woman lies with mankind, is a man that is a Daeva [demon]; this man is a worshipper of the Daevas, a male paramour of the Daevas”

                  Zoroastrianism in antiquity is interesting. There’s one commentary on their scriptures which say (paraphrasing here) you can feed thousands of orphans, heal thousands of broken limbs and give all your money to the temple, and it still won’t come close to comparing to marrying either your sister or your mom, as far as morality goes. I imagine that it has reformed since then (it’s a difficult topic to study since Zoroastrians have tried since the colonial era to present themselves as a monotheistic faith not dissimilar from Judaism/Christianity to garner support from the colonial powers in reasserting their rights in Persia.

                2. “All the more ironic as the most famous modern adherent of that religion was Farrokh Bulsara (aka Freddie Mercury).”

                  I’m guessing here, but I will view with a skeptical eye any ‘celebrity’ who adopts a religion, especially one that has long been on the margins, which would not be easy to conceptualize, and has the added virtue of being ‘edgy’ in the public eye.
                  I’d say that was a PR move by Freddie; I never saw anything that suggested otherwise.

                  1. I’m guessing here, but I will view with a skeptical eye any ‘celebrity’ who adopts a religion

                    Freddie Mercury didn’t convert. He was born into the religion. Believe it or not, he was of Indian origin.

                    1. “Freddie Mercury didn’t convert. He was born into the religion.”
                      Coulda missed it; that link says he was born in Zanzibar, don’t see anything about Zoro-ism.

                    2. “Freddie Mercury didn’t convert. He was born into the religion.”
                      Coulda missed it; that link says he was born in Zanzibar, don’t see anything about Zoro-ism.

                      Come on, dude, it’s in the second paragraph of the article.

                      Mercury was born on the British protectorate of Zanzibar, East Africa (now part of Tanzania). His parents, Bomi and Jer Bulsara,[a] were Parsis from the Gujarat region of the then province of Bombay Presidency in British India.[12][b] The family surname is derived from the town of Bulsar (also known as Valsad) in southern Gujarat. As Parsis, Mercury and his family practised the Zoroastrian religion.[13]

              2. And yet the Mesopotamian great epic is gaaaayyyy

                1. The great epics were faggy as hell. It’s crazy how many dudes Genji banged.

                  1. Were you around for my selective quoting of The Tain?

                    1. I missed that one.

                      That is fantastic; I’ve never read any of the Irish epics.

                    2. I’ve just read that and some of the smaller poems. I keep meaning to read some of the scandanavian epics just because there’s cultural crossover there and I’d like to compare to The Tain.

                2. Yeah, and certain parts of the bible hinted that way.

            2. You don’t know much about the Greeks.

      2. True to an extent, but the same can also be said in the case of traditions that were desperately in need of stamping out (slavery, for instance). Colonialism wasn’t a moral good, but it had some positive aspects.

        More relevantly, the only regions of Africa where sodomy is a crimiinal offense are majority-Muslim and are justified on explicitly Islamic grounds. Some of the Christian countries have varying levels of punishment for sodomy, but it’s more of a mixed bag.

        1. More relevantly, the only regions of Africa where sodomy is a crimiinal offense are majority-Muslim and are justified on explicitly Islamic grounds.

          True. Saudi Arabia also punishes “sodomy” with the death penalty, in some cases. Hasn’t stopped it from earning the reputation of the “Kingdom with one King and one million queens”.

          1. I’d heard the reputation of the ruling family but never heard it expressed quite that way. That’s hilarious.

        2. Nigeria is about 50% Christian, and a Christian minister is the one spearheading the attempt to make sodomy punishable by death.

          Apparently the northern (predominantly Muslim) portion and southern (predominantly Christian) region have different legal codes, but both have a maximum 14 years of prison time for man-on-man action (just worded slightly differently).

          1. There ain’t no heroes who think a sky daddy is “one”.

          2. and a Christian minister is the one spearheading the attempt to make sodomy punishable by death.

            Ahahahahahahaha.

        3. And In Uganda it is justified on explicitly Christian grounds.

    1. Oh Martin Ssempa, I really, truly hope that there’s a hell and you spend the rest of eternity licking some demon’s firey asshole.

      I really like how big name American evangelicals got into bed with this guy without any real concept of what a snake he is. He got a ton of credibility from those relationships and then they were making a hasty retreat when he called for sodomy to be punishable by death and actually got said legislation on the docket.

      1. You know that Sempa is on tha DL. No one watches that much gay porn just to “do research”. Especially the German shit and fisting porn he seems so expert in.

        1. How does that put him on the disabled list? 🙂

        2. You don’t do German Shiesse Porn, do you Mom?

          /Cartman

  4. President Sall responded to President Obama’s intolerance rebuke by saying, “Hey, do I come down to where you work and slap the Internal Revenue Service’s Determinations Group out of your mouth?”

  5. DOMA was enacted according to republican rather than democratic principles. There wasn’t a national referendum; as I recall, elected representatives enacted the legislation.

  6. Psst progressives, welcome to Africa.

  7. And when it comes to people’s personal views and their religious faith, et cetera, I think we have to respect the diversity of views that are there.”

    Because that’s what Obama is all about, respecting views he disagrees with.

    1. Does anyone feel it’s patronizing when someone is wanting you to do something, and they keep using the word “we”?

      1. I thought we agreed that this was no longer a problem between us.

      2. Very common negotiating tactic; commonly used when “arguing from authority.”

  8. Hey, we all have different customs, you know? In some places, they burn widows alive on the funeral pyre of their deceased husbands. And, ya know, you gotta respect that.

    1. I agree, just like Sir Charles Napier.

  9. Wouldn’t lecturing Africans for their views on homosexuality be racist, paternalistic, neocolonial, imperialistic interventionism?

    And LOL on Obama “respecting” the “Diversity of Views That Are Out There” on homosexuality or anything for that matter.

    1. “And LOL on Obama “respecting” the “Diversity of Views That Are Out There” on homosexuality or anything for that matter.”

      I wonder how many cameras it would take to catch this guys comments from both sides of his mouth.

  10. Put aside cultural mores. Boil it down to the most elemental fact of how people should be treated. You should not treat your fellow human harshly even if you despise whatever his behavior may be. For all the horrible things Jeffery Dahmer did having a broomstick shoved up his ass and broken resulting the rupturing of his intestines only turned those who did that to him into equally vile monsters. The president is being a politque and that is unfortunately the very opposite of being human.

  11. “we have respect for the rights of homosexuals ? but for the time being, we are still not ready to change the law.”

    Change “homosexuals” to, say, “marijuana users” — and Voil

    1. “Change “homosexuals” to, say, “marijuana users””

      Nope. Pretty sure finding out you’re attracted to the same sex is functionally different from smoking a j.

      1. Toke, er, *Take* 2:

        Change “Macky Sall” to, say, “Barack Obama” — and Voil

  12. Lefties seem to think that African Americans are now pro-gay because of Obama. It will be interesting to see if they are polled as positive about gay marriage once Obama is gone.

    1. They seem to have gone into brain-lock when prop 8 passed in California with quite a bit of the black vote.

      -jcr

      1. Those whom I know either rewrote reality to fit the narrative or said that it was racist even to bring up the subject.

  13. Jennifer used to have two daddies, but in the aftermath of the SOTUS decision, what’s to prevent her from ending up with one daddy and a goat?

    1. Russell| 6.27.13 @ 9:45PM |#
      “Jennifer used to have two daddies, but in the aftermath of the SOTUS decision, what’s to prevent her from ending up with one daddy and a goat?”

      Sarc?
      Stupidity?

      1. Comedy of manners.

        Are you utterly humorless?

        Or thick as an icky brick ?

    2. Why, the love of Jesus Christ, of course.

  14. “The issue of gays and lesbians, and how they’re treated, has come up and has been controversial in many parts of Africa,” Obama said. “So I want the African people just to hear what I believe, and that is that every country, every group of people, every religion have different customs, different traditions. And when it comes to people’s personal views and their religious faith, et cetera, I think we have to respect the diversity of views that are there.”

    I read Harry Frankfurt’s “On Bullshit” recently.

    I was going to say something snarky implying that this is a prime example; that the speaker is unconcerned with whether what he says is true or false, and is playing at something else entirely.

    But this doesn’t even rise to THAT level. It’s almost entirely without content. “What I believe is that everyone has different traditions”? That’s some heady stuff right there. Boy, that’s a guy, maybe you disagree with him–maybe you think that everyone has the SAME traditions, for example–but you gotta respect his beliefs.

    Douche.

    1. “…that the speaker is unconcerned with whether what he says is true or false, and is playing at something else entirely. But this doesn’t even rise to THAT level. It’s almost entirely without content.”

      Empty. Suit.

  15. Gojira| 6.27.13 @ 8:49PM |#
    “You know, those poor Africans wouldn’t have these backwards attitudes if they hadn’t been dominated by evil White Christian Straight Men from Europe, who spread their hatred and intolerance like a plague.”

    They did that, and they did it long enough ago that it’s nothing but an excuse by now.
    BUT! They spread an even more evil concept that unfortunately can be combined with the former for really lasting results:
    “I got the gun, I make the goddam rules and fuck you, that’s why.”

    1. “I got the gun, I make the goddam rules and fuck you, that’s why.”

      Call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure that concept could have been found across the globe before the Age of Imperialism.

  16. STEVE SMITH HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR DIVERSITY OF VIEWS ON WHO AND HOW TO RAPE! STEVE SMITH ENJOY CAVORTING FRIVOLOUSLY WHILE GAMBOLING ABOUT ON TREE AND PLAIN WHILE ENGAGED IN VARIOUS FORMS AND TYPES AND VICTIMS OF RAPE! ONLY EXCEPTION IS LINDY WEST, AMANDA MARCOTTE, ALLECTO AND WARTY. STEVE SMITH HAVE STANDARD ON WHO TO RAPE!

  17. That’s my President, rubbing it in their face and telling them how it smells. Next thing you know he will be sending in the ‘new-look’ Army as “advisors”.

  18. So anyone remember Captain Planet?

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.c…..rks-576490

    1. It’s Second Lieutenant Planet, now. He was demoted after Linka successfully brought false sexual harassment charges against him and the rest of the Planeteers. The rest of the Planeteers got on with their lives — Kwame even achieved some measure of fame as a stripper in Montreal — but Planet was never the same. After he thanklessly saved the world from Climate Change without so much as a spinoff series, he’s been hitting the bottle pretty hard.

      He’s in a dark place, needless to say.

    2. Heart!

    3. Captain Planet, the Silver Surfer’s gay cousin.

  19. Heads up Reason, smoking hot Instapundit article about student loans.

    What’s Really ‘Immoral’ About Student Loans It’s not so much the interest rates charged. It is, rather, the principal of the thing.

    Now here’s where the real immorality kicks in. The skyrocketing cost of a college education is a classic unintended consequence of government intervention. Colleges have responded to the availability of easy federal money by doing what subsidized industries generally do: Raising prices to capture the subsidy. Sold as a tool to help students cope with rising college costs, student loans have instead been a major contributor to the problem.

    He doesn’t spend enough time talking about the fact that “students” have been using these loans as de facto income for the last 30 years, which should be mentioned, but he does at least note that these loans aren’t involuntary.

    1. Instapundit also disses libertarians who politically equate Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee. I blame Nick Gillespie. I hope when Nick weigels out of here he renounces liberty just like Will Wilkinson did.

      1. I’m pretty suspicious of Gillespie. I mean comparing Palin unfavorably to Bobby Jindal and co.? What’s next? Fauxcahontas is the face of liberaltariansim?

        I’m also pretty suspicious of Feeney for his “spending didn’t cause the Euro Crisis” article. I mean what else could cause it?

        Anyway what has happened to other ex-Reasonoids? Wilkinson, Sanchez, Howley, Balko, Cavanaugh, Lucy, etc. Have they all gone full weigel or not?

      2. Instapundit also disses libertarians who politically equate Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee.

        Wait, aren’t they both crackpots? And there are people that argue -against- this?

    2. “The skyrocketing cost of a college education is a classic unintended consequence of government intervention.”

      I don’t believe in unintended consequences anymore. If a gov’t program has a bad consequence, I assume it was intended.

      Reason writers STILL refer to the ill affects of ObamaCare as “unintended consequences.”

      Nope, if a gov’t program screws us, it was intended.

      1. I think you are far too cynical. Liberals didn’t sit around in the early ’60s and say: “Hey, let’s change the rules of welfare in a way that will encourage destruction of black families, and ensure generations of single mothers whose children will be trapped in poverty and crime.”

        The basic liberal error is doing things that sound good, and out of good intentions, but which don’t work the way they plan (or which sort of work, but cause or worsen some other problem).

        1. Fair enough, I wasn’t around in the early 60s. And, my liberal California friends may actually believe that ObamaCare will lower prices and improve healthcare.

          However, I think the architects of ObamaCare know full well what the consequences of ObamaCare will be. They know it will, if implemented the way the want, will lead to higher prices and shortages. Suderman and others refers to these as unintended consequences, and I just don’t buy it.

          1. I suggest that when dealing with rank-and-file libs, you consider employing some of the charitability Arnold Kling encourages in his book The Three Languages of Politics.

            SPOILER ALERT: The liberals are always speaking a language of “oppression.”

            1. Thanks for the Kling reference. See also Jonathan Haidt.

          2. However, I think the architects of ObamaCare know full well what the consequences of ObamaCare will be. They know it will, if implemented the way the want, will lead to higher prices and shortages

            Fundamental misunderstanding of the liberal mindset. These people are well aware that all of this -could- happen if they don’t put TOP MEN in charge. And of course, if it does happen, they just weren’t the RIGHT TOP MEN, and we should throw more money and bureaucracy at it until it works.

            I have every bit of faith that most liberals really do care about people; they just aren’t smart enough to understand that the best way to care for your fellow man is to basically leave him the fuck alone.

        2. Liberals didn’t sit around in the early ’60s and say: “Hey, let’s change the rules of welfare in a way that will encourage destruction of black families, and ensure generations of single mothers whose children will be trapped in poverty and crime.”

          LBJ infamously said I’ll get those nig–rs voting democrat for a hundred years.

          1. Yeah, he thought they’d be voting Dem out of gratitude.

    3. He doesn’t get into the progressive’s regulatory state that makes a higher ed credential essential to employment. Pushing ever more people into higher ed to no real purpose, other than enriching those institutions.

      They really are despicable.

  20. Comedy of manners.

    Are you utterly humorless or thick as an icky brick ?

    1. Jeebus, I hate all the YouTube links around here. Don’t make me click a link to find out what it is. In this case: “Iraq war veteran and double amputee Rep Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., unleashed her scorn today on an IRS contractor who used a military prep school injury from 27 years ago to qualify for disabled veteran status, saying, “If this nation stops funding veterans’ health care…and calls into question why veterans deserve their benefits, it’s because of cases like you.”

      1. It was disappointing.

        She doesn’t even wave a hook at him or anything.

        Otis needs to seriously reconsider his definition of “glorious.”

      2. What a piece of shit. Does he meet the definition of disabled veteran or not? If he does, fuck off. Hell, some would consider a pilot officer living a life of luxury not to be a real veteran either if she wants to get into a pissing match.

        1. Hang on a minute while I try to give a fuck about a guy who got a piece of himself blown off while volunteering to go over to other countries and murder innocents….

          Yeah, it’s gonna be a while, might not wanna hold your breath.

          1. If he hadn’t volunteered, the government would have come and sent your dumb ass over there. Do you really think they wouldn’t draft if they had to? Of course not. If people stopped volunteering the government would politely give up on having a military or going overseas I am sure.

            If it wasn’t for that guy and people like him, you would either be living in exile, in prison for draft dodging or dead or disabled. But feel free not to give a fuck.

        2. Hell, some would consider a pilot officer living a life of luxury not to be a real veteran either if she wants to get into a pissing match.

          I’m sure Ms. Duckworth would trade her luxuries for, you know, both of her legs. While I find her politics odious, I can’t say she wasn’t a “real” vet when her bird got an RPG to the side and in the crash she lost both of her legs and almost lost her right arm.

        3. That guy is a turd. He got injured in an academy prep school, went on to play college football only to claim to be a disabled veteran to get a crony contract.

          Fuck him. He doesn’t meet the definition. To the extent that he does it is because he used his connections to game the system and get a determination he doesn’t merit.

  21. Sometimes man, you jsut have to roll with it.

    http://www.Go-Anon.tk

  22. Isn’t this just divine, daaaaaahhlings?

  23. Obama: “I love fags.”

    Foreign Leader: “God hates fags.”

    Obama: “Well, you’ve got a point there…”

  24. Can’t you be against homosexuality for practical reasons, like not wanting your ass to hurt?

    1. That would be an objection to anal sex not homosexuality.

  25. Obama is being condescending and paternalistic as well as weaselly and wishy-washy on human rights.

    Whatever. Don’t care. Whatever Obama’s doing, it’s wrong, including when he does the opposite.

    1. We know he can do no wrong in your eyes, Tony.

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