J.D. Tuccille on RT Discusses the FBI Giving Thumbs-Up to All Its Agents' Shootings

As noted at Reason 24/7, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has done thorough investigations of the 150 shootings in which its agents killed or injured people between 1993 and 2011, and pronounced them all righteous. Sure, one incident resulted in the feds paying out $1.3M to Joseph Schultz, an innocent guy who had his face blown off by an FBI bullet, but it was still a good shoot.

Hey, the feds are pros. They don't make mistakes.

I went on RT to discuss this remarkable track record and the precedent it sets for how police departments around the country conduct their own scrutiny of shootings by police officers. I suggest that, perhaps, government agencies ought not be investigating their own actions.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

That's how you pronounce your last name? Peanut butter Tuccille time!

The FBI is the top law enforcement of the land. Top men don't get their actions looked at by anyone but other top men. And top men don't make mistakes.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

It's a false claim that because a shooting is ruled justified, that mistakes weren't made. The classic bank robbery shootout

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1.....i_shootout

was notable for the poor tactics (mostly institutional) the FBI used, and many mistakes made.

However, it was CLEARLY justified.

Two entirely different things.

I know that when I am in a shooting, I am not expected to be perfect. I am judged on the totality of the circs and whether it was justified, not whether it was mistake free.

[The Late P Brooks]

Shock and awe, Baby.

[Dweebston]

The magic phrase here seems to be "totality of the circumstances." That's what the FBI always invokes. They look at the totality of the circumstances and decide that, no matter what anybody else might think, the shooting was justified.

From Dunphy's lips to J.D.'s ears. Er, fingers to eyes.

[sarcasmic]

"Fuck you. That's why."

[Dibbler]

good shoot

Procedures were followed regarding the totality of the circumstances.

/hth

[Mainer2]

Yawn !

troll-o-meter -.01

smooches

[Dibbler]

I'd love to see you do better sweet cheeks. And spread em while you're at it.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

ivory tower reasonoids opining on deadly force, something they likely and luckily will never have to consider or use. Here in the real world, FBI (Fan Belt Inspectors) and cops ARE presented with deadly force encounters, and overwhelmingly make the right choice.

Saying a shooting is justified, contrary to the article's claim, does not mean no mistakes were made. That's absurd. It simply means that , based on the totality of the circs, the metric we are presented with in a deadly force situation, the balance is in favor - justified. You'd be hard pressed to find any shooting - cop or otherwise, where mistakes weren't made.

[Outlaw]

You guys are fucking creeps.

Shooting the wrong man in the face is a mistake so big that the shooting should not be considered justified, asshole.

[Free Society]

I'd wager that in almost any one of those shootings, the agent fired more rounds than the entirety of a European country's police forces fired (at another human being) in a year.

[AlmightyJB]

All of those incidents happened in the past. What's done is done. We can't change the past so why concern ourselves with it. WDATPDIM.

[Mainer2]

What difference, at this point, does it make ?

[Dibbler]

Truly, the master of Google fu of our time. Again I say, expose thine anus for my pleasure. Seriously. If I don't see some brown eye soon I'm like to go off on a tangential rampage.

[dennis bausch]

how about a civilian police board like the justice? department has shoved down so many cities throats.
up omamas justice dept.

[Killazontherun]

Not a bad idea. The more time community activist are spending to harass cops the less time they are spending on committing voter fraud and spreading the CRA wealth.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

Ivory Tower Reasonoids (tm) who have never been shot at and never been in a shooting might very well view "totality of the circumstances" as magic, but in the Real World (tm), it IS important. When you are faced with a deadly force decision, and let's remember that cops (and FBI agents) use deadly force very very rarely - less than once every 12 yrs on average, you are presented with often conflicting facts and circumstances and what is important is the sum - the totality of the circs.

Studying shooting reviews, and arbitrator reports, is instructive.

For example, the Oregon case where reason presented the narrative of UNjustified, once you read the arbitrator report (recall that portland PD ruled it unjustified), you see that the totality of the facts and circs known ot the officer who pulled the trigger clearly meant it was justified. Not perfect, not mistake free, but justified.

Here's an example of the portland mayor ignoring rule of law (tm) and binding arbitration and blatantly stating that those lofty concepts don't matter

http://www.oregonlive.com/port.....draws.html

[Coeus]

Of course it was "justified". They used the magic words.

"there was sufficient evidence for a finding that Mr. Campbell made motions that appeared to look like he was reaching for a gun."

It's amazing how you guys have managed to make drop guns obsolete. Must be that "new professionalism" we keep hearing so much about. How dare he run away when he was being pelted by beanbags. Only criminals run, right?

[Dunphy (the real one)]

fwiw, at least here in WA state, cop shootings routinely are subject to greater scrutiny than "civilian" shootings (which I have investigated and usually just result in prosecutor review). cop shootings, here in king county result in mandatory citizen jury inquest - civilian shootings don't.

this one was instructive

http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4069436.html

the forensics COMPLETELY supported miller's account. for example, the suspect's blood was found INSIDE the chamber fo the gun, supporting the story that he pulled the trigger, then realized a round wasn't chambered , pulled the slide back to chamber, at which point miller shot, resulting in blood INSIDE the chamber.

furthermore, the cops were smart enough to tape record the gf's interview at the scene, thus catching ehr in lies during the inquest, since she admitted at the time of the shooting that he smoked crack that morning, that she saw the gun (stolen gun) in his possession, and that he pulled it on the deputy.

This is the kind of shooting that is routinely ruled justified, because - it was justified.