Increased Use of Drones Breeds Anti-Americanism in Yemen

Did you know that people get upset when their friends and relations are blown up by killer robots from the sky? That having the possibility of flying death ever-present in their lives tends to make them anxious and, perhaps, a bit ill-disposed toward the folks on the joystick end of those missile-firing drones? It's a revelation, ain't it? And, it turns out, Yemenis are increasingly pissed off at the United States because all of the airborne death to which that country has been subject in an effort to ferret-out alleged terrorists is directed by Americans.
From YNetNews:
"Mrs. Michelle Obama: Tell us can your husband sleep after so many innocent people were killed by his drones?" read a banner held by a Yemeni activist at a recent rally to protest increasing American drone strikes in Yemen.
The rally reflected the growing anti-American feeling among Yemenis, who strongly oppose increasing drone strikes that sometimes result in the killing of innocent civilians, including women and children.
So while American forces are succeeding in hitting gunmen in al-Qaeda, the drone strikes have also fueled anger against the US, especially in areas regularly vulnerable to the attacks.
"The negative aspects of drones greatly outweigh their gains," Saeed Obaid, a Yemeni analyst and expert on anti-terrorism and chairman of the Al-Jahmi Center for Studies, told The Media Line.
The 2011 political deadlock eventually resulting in then President Ali Abdullah Saleh's resignation caused Saleh's government to cut back on its anti-terrorism cooperation with the US. Washington therefore began using an increasing number of drones to contain Yemen's local franchise of al-Qaeda, which exploited the unrest and took control of large portions of south and southeastern Yemen. …
Farea Al-Muslimi, 22, of the Yemeni village of Wessab explained how his village had been mostly pro-American, largely because of his descriptions of the wonderful year of high school he spent in the US. A drone strike in Wessab against a man whom Muslimi insisted could easily have simply been arrested changed all that.
"What the violent militants have previously failed to achieve, one drone strike accomplished in an instant. There is now an intense anger against America in Wessab. This is not an isolated incident – the drone strikes are the face of America to many Yemenis," he said in his testimony.
You have to wonder what a generation or two of people raised equating the United States with lethal drone strikes will do as it takes its place on the world stage, should they be inclined to vent their frustrations.
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You know what Yemen needs? A good speech. That will soothe the people and make them understand the necessity of military assault style droning.
Maybe an assurance from Obama that he will get to the bottom of who is responsible for these drone strikes will help.
No one is more outraged about these strikes than Obama. That's if those strikes actually happened and Obamas not sure that they did.
And if they did, why it was low-level bureaucrats who approved them!
One more apologetic taking-of-responsibility coming right up!
In the passive voice! Things happened!
What difference, at this point, does it make?
Maybe an assurance from Obama that he will get to the bottom of who is responsible for these drone strikes will help.
I thought it was like totally that bush guy that did that stuff, and stuff *vocal fry*.
Obama hangs out with like Gay-Z and stuff so he's like totally like cool *vocal fry*.
Are you some sort of like racist teabagger and stuff *vocal fry with extra disdain*?
my classmate's sister-in-law makes $63/hr on the internet. She has been out of a job for seven months but last month her payment was $12955 just working on the internet for a few hours. Read more on this site http://www.daz7.com
Your classmate's sister is a lying whore who needs a drone attack. That's all.
Nah, they just don't like Obama 'cause they're racists.
-jcr
An anti-drone rally? Full of suspected militants no doubt. Please, for the children, strike them before they buy more pressure cookers or download plastic gun files!
Xilano| 5.13.13 @ 7:48PM |#
"An anti-drone rally? Full of suspected militants no doubt. Please, for the children, strike them before they buy more pressure cookers or download plastic gun files!"
They deserve it cause Citizens United!
/Pelosi
You mean other places in the world don't share the historical myopia that is endemic to American culture?
That's crazy, 2-Chillz, just crazy!
Given that the average Yemeni is far more likely to be pissed off at the US than the UK and French imperialists who created the whole damned mess that they currently live in, I'd say there's more than enough historical myopia to pass around.
I'd say we deserve plenty of culpability when we supported that mess during the Cold War.
Supporting what "mess"? The US was instrumental in persuading the US and France to decolonize in the ME during the 50s and 60s. France wanted to keep troops in Lebanon after WWII; the UK maintained a presence in Palestine and reorganized the monarchies and governments in Iraq and Jordan before they went broke. The US' role in all of this was getting duped by the French and the UK into various schemes in Iran and Lebanon, buying oil, funding already established dictatorships, and inconsistently bitching about human rights in the region. Oh, and Israel (obviously).
If someone in the ME wants to use someone's name as a curse word for everything that's wrong with the ME, Winston Churchill's is a pretty good
You are quite correct in mentioning the anti-imperialist role of the US in the 1930s-40s. There may be much to criticize about FDR but for the most part when he said that American boys were not going to die to preserve European empires he meant it.
But in fairness it should be pointed out that "the UK maintained a presence in Palestine" because of a League of Nations Mandate (inherited by the UN) and they attempted to administer the mandate in a fairer wy than they did when they "eorganized the monarchies and governments in Iraq and Jordan".
In order to safeguard democracy and freedom in America, poor children must die in their mud hut via drone. I'm sure their surviving family members are proud to help America.
/proglodyte
Duh
And everyplace else, including at home!
The map of Rebel controlled areas in Yemen versus government controlled areas roughly corresponds to the former borders of North and South Yemen.
Strange, that.
Do you really mean to suggest that arbitrary lines drawn by bureaucrats and government "leaders" don't change culture? How dare you, sir!
"The drone strikes are the face of America to many Yemenis," he said in his testimony.
That's just what we want. Consign the shining beacon and city on a hill to the dustbin of history. From now on the ideal of America will be Death From Above.
You know, there was a time once when we would have made sure it was Death From Snoo-Snoo. That's the America I want to live in.
"Goodbye friends. I never thought I'd die like this. But I always really hoped."
"We need rest. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised."
"A drone strike in Wessab against a man whom Muslimi insisted could easily have simply been arrested changed all that."
Consider the kind of evil we are dealing with here.
I remember after Slick Willie had that sadistic Dyke murder and roast all those children in Waco the sheriff there said he had offered to get Koresh for them. Koresh went jogging every morning outside the compound and the sheriff was on speaking terms with him. All he had to do was drive up to him and say ' hop in Dave, we need to have a talk.'.
Reno told him to get the fuck out of the way, they would handle it.
But she 'took responsibility'!
Yep, just like Hillary "took responsibility" for the Benghazi debacle.
-jcr
How are they supposed to use all of their cool army toys if the sheriff is just going to bring him in peacefully?
Because Sevo clearly hates amped up heroes. Rightfully, I might add.
OT: woman sues detective for not doing his job? Kind of an odd case.
http://www.nbc4i.com/story/222.....-detective
"I feel my constitutional right to have my grievances redressed were ignored.."
This will probably go nowhere. If it goes forward and she is successful it will open one huge fucking can of worms.
Yeah, no shit. Where does that end?
It's ignored grievances all the way down!
The Supreme Court has already ruled that public employees are not obligated to do shit.
I have it on good authority that we're universally loved overseas and that blowback is a myth perpetuated by democrats when they're out of power.
They hate us for our freedomz. Not because we bomb them. Therefore the solution is for us to not be free anymore. Then everyone will love us. Yea!
Sounds like appeasement, but perhaps I'm old-fashioned.
To be fair, that does sound like the platform for at least one of the major parties.
Have fun trying to figure out which one.
Can't it be both?
Shhh.
You'll scare the partisans.
I have it on good authority that we're universally loved overseas and that blowback is a myth ...
Nope, blowback is so totally real that it's only happens as a result of tangential US action, never direct action.
Retard
Just keep whistling past Boston.
JD, sorry for the OT, but it looks like someone is finally PISSED!
"The Justice Department secretly obtained two months of telephone records of reporters and editors for The Associated Press in what the news cooperative's top executive called a "massive and unprecedented intrusion" into how news organizations gather the news."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/business.....z2TDjoKq7N
"how news organizations gather the news."
I thought they just made shit up.
They gather stuff to give it an air of plausibility.
I'm quite sure the real issue here has nothing to do with the data-capture.
It has to do with the narrative: If the press doesn't scream about this, the curtain is pulled back and it's obvious that the press is Obozo's lap-dog.
True it is, but we can't have that visible, so maybe Obozo put one too many funny hats on the dog for the pet parade and the dog is gonna bite back.
Maybe...
Heh. So I am not the only one that has an actual life and has trouble keeping up...there is a H&R story on that posted 2 hrs ago.
Suthen, I missed the thread on 'outlawing' the 3-D gun software last week.
Damn. Having to work can be a pain...
We'll overlook it just this once. Carry on, Sevo.
"The drone strikes are the face of America to many Yemenis," he said in his testimony."
It could be worse, I guess. Thank God, Justin Bieber is Canadian.
So are you suggesting that we drop Bieber on Yemen? Because I'm pretty that violates most or all of the Geneva Conventions.
No, I'm just sayin'...
Would you rather Justin Bieber were the face of America?
I'd rather we were known for punk rock, surfing, and hot chicks, but if I had to choose the face of America, and it was between drone strikes and Justin Bieber?
...
Bieber's birth has been listed as a war crime, but since it was the Canadians who committed it, no one cares. Those sneaky puckheads and icebacks get away with this shit all the time! Have they ever paid the price for Celine Dion? Nope.
KITH, TPB and RUSH makes up for all.
The only good things from Canada are David Cronenberg movies and latex-clad whores.Both have seen better days too.
I didn't know she was Canadian!
uhhhh Shatner...duh.
So are you suggesting that we drop Bieber on Yemen?
Reminds me of the end of this onion clip. Salient portions at 1:31, whole thing funny.
How come nobody ever asks me why it matters what the Arab Street thinks in threads like this?
Ken Shultz| 5.13.13 @ 8:04PM |#
"How come nobody ever asks me why it matters what the Arab Street thinks in threads like this?"
Ken, you ain't been watching. I've been busting your ass over that comment for at least a year.
But usually not in threads where how we're perceived being a problem is practically the very title of the thread.
Being all about drone strikes in the eyes of would be terrorist recruits isn't a good thing.
Among all the other reasons why Bush's torture policy, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo Bay were terrible ideas? was the fact that it put us in a terrible light in the eyes of our enemies' recruiting pool.
It's an important point. When Islamist terror is no longer a threat to the United States, we won't be seen that way by average Yemenis, Saudis, et. al. anymore.
Ken Shultz| 5.13.13 @ 8:17PM |#
"Being all about drone strikes in the eyes of would be terrorist recruits isn't a good thing."
Yeah, well getting involved in Libya didn't turn out that well, either did it? See any street rug-pilots waving old glory?
Well, one of the other things driving that recruiting by our enemies is the opportunities most young men have to making something of themselves in the world being crowded out by some vicious dictator.
Al Qaeda and the Islamists preached for years that their flavor of jihad was the only way to get rid of those dictators. ...which is another way of saying that peaceful protests and seeking the cooperation of the international community (AND the United States) just accomplished in Libya (and Egypt and Tunisia) what Al Qaeda and the Islamists couldn't do--despite decades of trying with terrorism.
In other words, yeah, Libya seems like a great success to me so far--considering. Especially considering that all those Al Qaeda people ended up with no place to go in Libya--they had to go to Mali.
I'm not saying that what we did in Libya is about to turn that whole perception around, but I think it was a step in the right direction. And not having sent any troops into the country helped that perception along even better.
Ken Shultz| 5.13.13 @ 9:08PM |#
..."In other words, yeah, Libya seems like a great success to me so far--considering"...
With successes like that, who needs failures?
Are you referring to the Chris Stevens murder?
I don't see that as the definitive word on success or failure.
If the object was to help the Libyans free themselves of a vicious dictator so that the average young man on the street has a legitimate chance of making a respectable life for himself? Then, yeah, I think Libya has been a success so far.
A huge chunk of the world's international jihadis (like those in Pakistan and Afghanistan) come from Libya. I think becoming a jihadi was a much easier choice to make back when the alternative was languishing under Gaddafi's boot. Become respectable and get a wife, and going off to jihad against the Yankee imperialists isn't going to be so much of a problem...
Get a wife, and they'll be lucky if they let 'em keep their motorcycles.
"When Islamist terror is no longer a threat to the United States..."
I am not holding my breath on that one. As I recall Jefferson asked the barbary pirates why they behaved the way they do and was given an explanation that sounded like the same holy duty screeds we are hearing today. Identical.
This in no way invalidates your point. You are correct that we are encouraging more terror by our method of fighting terror.
I never thought I'd see the Soviet Union fall.
I never thought I'd see a state legalize the recreational use of marijuana.
Crazy good stuff happens, sometimes, but it's almost never by accident.
Oh, very well.
Why does it matter what the Arab Street thinks?
Because the terrorist keep recruiting more jihadis and terrorists from off the Arab Street.
Here's the thing, Ken:
What the Arab street thinks is a product of the neighborhood. Your average Saudi or Egyptian national who's never been abroad has about as accurate an image of the US as a Soviet party man does of Marxist-Leninism or an SS guard of Jews. This is not because they are naturally stupid or evil, but because they have been raised to believe these things their entire life and are maintained in a cocoon of aggressive ignorance by their families, schools, and workplaces. Of the Arabs who come here, there's about even odds that their opinion of the US will greatly improve and a non-trivial chance that they become violently radicalized in response to the open society. The quality of information and discourse in Arab society is low and skews paranoid -- and yes, that discourse does maintain a narrative of hatred for "decadent" Western values and mores.
Whatever we do over there is interpreted through this filter, and it is frankly nonsensical to make the chimera of popular opinion in the ME the basis for policy in the region. Get the hell out and trade with whatever governments emerge. That's the start of wisdom in the ME.
"This is not because they are naturally stupid or evil, but because they have been raised to believe these things their entire life and are maintained in a cocoon of aggressive ignorance by their families, schools, and workplaces."
We've been actively supporting dictators over there for decades. Going back to 1953 in Iran. Going back to the Carter Administration in Egypt...
And I supported that! They were one of the battlefields in the Cold War, and what we did, we did to win. Every place we didn't move in, the Soviets would have, and when we started sending money to Egypt, it displaced the USSR, which had been Egypt's largest foreign donor before us.
We were still collaborating, more or less, with the Saudis to protect the House of Saud from their own people right up until a decade ago, and we were cozying up to Gaddafi once he renounced his WMD program. He was being rehabilitated!
The Arab Street has legitimate gripes against us going back decades. To turn that around, I think we should give them legitimate reasons to think better of us. It isn't going to happen overnight, but we need to take those opportunities when they present themselves.
Ken, how many native Saudis have you talked to recently?
The main gripes I heard when I was stationed there pertained not to the propping up of corrupt dictatorships, but to 1) our basing rights in the Sinai peninsula (the kaffir were defiling it with our presence, dontcha know), 2) support for Israel, and 3) our popular culture's "indecency". Our history funding dictatorships came in a distant fourth, as part of a crazy quilt filled with half-truths and some patently false conspiracy nonsense.
We have given Arabs plenty of reasons to like us. Believe it or not, overthrowing the Ba'athist dictatorship in Iraq was something that many Arabs and Muslims in the region sought. Arab immigration to the US (and the many, many college degrees that we hand out to native Saudis and Jordanians every year) are of course of great benefit to the recipients. The products created by our markets feed, maintain, and entertain the Arab world. Sorry Ken, but bending over backwards to please a people in the grip of an unpalatable ideology is a waste of time and so is our constant intervention in the region to make them in our own image.
"Ken, how many native Saudis have you talked to recently?"
The Saudis I've talked to aren't the kind who are likely to be mad at the Saudi government.
I knew this one was explaining that Americans all seemed to think that Saudi women were so terribly treated, but her mother, to the contrary, never had to lift a finger! She had servants running around doing everything for her all day--and her own driver!
Saudi Arabia had a nominal GDP of $25,085 US per capita in 2012. The Saudis I've known seemed to have an income...much higher than that. So, no, I don't think I've ever personally talked to average Saudis.
Moving our bases the f out of Saudi was smart. We were there to protect Saudi oil fields from the Iranians after the revolution in 1979. Then we were there to protect them from Saddam Hussein in '91. Then we were there...
Why were we still there in 2003? Why didn't we get the Khobar Towers message in 1993? My understanding...through my reading...is that a lot of average Saudis thought we were there to protect the government from the Saudi people. The government of Saudi Arabia is a brutal dictatorship, and we associated ourselves with it very closely in the eyes of its domestic enemies.
How many of the hijackers were from Saudi? How much of bin Laden's support came from Saudi Arabia? How many of the jihadis we've found in Afghanistan and fought in Pakistan are from Saudi Arabia? If the U.S. were a vicious dictatorship, and I thought the Saudi Arabian troops stationed around America were there to protect the American government from the American people?
I might feel the same way about the Saudis as those jihadis feel about us. We needed to associate ourselves with regimes like that for strategic reasons back during the Cold War. Now we need to disassociate ourselves. It took more than a generation to make that association, and breaking it isn't going to happen overnight.
We better hope electric cars and green electricity are actually the future after all.
Other way around, Ken. The Saudi regime is unpopular because *they* associate with *us*. The common Saudi thinks that the Saudi nobility are a bunch of corrupted, Westernized tyrants who aren't Islamic enough -- that the Americans are propping up a secular-ish dictatorship in lieu of the Sharia-compliant country that they'd prefer. This is a narrative that is in the Saudi monarchy's interest to propagate, and they do so skillfully while cynically exporting their radical elements to the extent possible.
That kind of ignorance can only be cured with decades of experience with some clear cause and effect, not with some showy diplomacy and help in establishing what will soon become very unpopular (and authoritarian) Islamist democracies.
Sorry Ken, but bending over backwards to please a people in the grip of an unpalatable ideology is a waste of time
Idiots like Ken ( with all due respect, Ken) cannot accept this reality.
and so is our constant intervention in the region to make them in our own image.
And idiots on the right (and left) cannot accept this reality.
"Idiots like Ken ( with all due respect, Ken) cannot accept this reality."
The communist bloc evaporated into nothing during my lifetime.
The reason certain segments of Muslim world hate us isn't just becasue of their ideology. That anti-American ideology does get traction with recruits, in no small part, as a result of what we do.
Surely, you're not arguing that our military presence in Saudi Arabia did nothing to stoke resentment against us before 2003? You're not arguing that our support for Mubarak did nothing to stoke resentment against us in Egypt, are you?
Some of us find it hard to believe that when America hits people with drone strikes, it exacerbates resentment against the United States of America among their fellow countrymen... I think I'd resent any country that conducted a drone strike against any American within our borders.
Let's all hope that the targets Obama is hitting in Yemem are worth more than the anti-American hostility he's exacerbating with these strikes. And in the meantime, maybe some of us can work on trying to get it through our heads that when we do things that people hate us for, it makes them hate us more.
1) The cited portion of the article doesn't give much evidence for its point.
2) The feelings of savages half-way around the world are not our concern. Foreign policy must be rational, not feelings-based.
You have to wonder what a generation or two of people raised equating the United States with lethal drone strikes will do as it takes its place on the world stage
I don't know and neither do you Tuccille. It's just something we'll have to deal with. Something tells me they'll be more concerned with southern separatists (The South will rise again!) and Houthi rebels possibly acting as proxy for Iran.
I'll buy the rest, though.
What a bleeding heart! 😉
When those affairs include hosting AQ, it's our affair, wanton ignorance aside.
Cytotoxic| 5.13.13 @ 8:25PM |#
"When those affairs include hosting AQ, it's our affair, wanton ignorance aside."
"Hosting" ain't our affair.
No, nor is surrounding the bodies of might've-been terrorists with mounds of civilian corpses. Fuck your feeling of safety rationalizing this horrendous practice.
I agree with #2. I think it would be rational to stop creating countless new angry people ripe for recruitment into terror organizations.
True, there are many already, but this makes many more. In my experience, shooting at people greatly increases the likelihood that they will shoot at you.
"In my experience, shooting at people greatly increases the likelihood that they will shoot at you."
Do we have a second for this motion?
In my experience, shooting at people greatly increases the likelihood that they will shoot at you.
Irrelevant when they are already hostile and trying to bomb your cargo airplanes as AQAP attempted. Given that AQAP has been forced into heavy retreat, the drone campaign seems to have been very successful. Yay us.
If we'd only kill more innocent men, women, and children, we'd have defeated them by now. Yee-ha.
Don't you know that their affairs are our business, but the effect our efforts have on their affairs don't matter at all?
Completely agree, but in my experience if you make sure to shoot accurately, they stop shooting one way or another.
This is a good point. Heh.
Yeah, if you hit every one shooting.
From the "Oh For Fuck's Sake" files
I use "for fucks' sake" because it's for all the fucks, not a singular one.
Who gives a fuck (singular)?
I've been given many fucks(mostly our of pity), so there are generous individuals out there.
Notice how Obama never dronebombs Kenya?
THINK ABOOT IT.
EH.
0x90| 5.13.13 @ 8:32PM |#
"Notice how Obama never dronebombs Kenya?"
Now, that's FUNNY!
Al-Muslimi, 22, of the Yemeni village of Wessab explained how his village had been mostly pro-American, largely because of his descriptions of the wonderful year of high school he spent in the US.
Billions to Egypt? Nah, just make sure A-Muslimi gets a prom invitation.
Gee, who could have seen that coming?